April 05, 2014
Is Support for the Death Penalty Dwindling? [Y-not]
— Open Blogger For those of you who do not want to talk about gardening, here's some thread-fodder from a report released by the Pew Research Center late last month:
— Open Blogger For those of you who do not want to talk about gardening, here's some thread-fodder from a report released by the Pew Research Center late last month:
According to a 2013 Pew Research Center survey, 55% of U.S. adults say they favor the death penalty for persons convicted of murder. A significant minority (37%) oppose the practice.While a majority of U.S. adults still support the death penalty, public opinion in favor of capital punishment has seen a modest decline since November 2011, the last time Pew Research asked the question. In 2011, fully six-in-ten U.S. adults (62%) favored the death penalty for murder convictions, and 31% opposed it.
Per their study and trends data, it appears support for the death penalty waxes and wanes a bit, though the support is always there:
Obviously, some parts of the country are more comfortable with the death penalty than others. Here's a report on the top states in terms of executions published by Policy Mic last year:
On Wednesday, Texas executed its 500th person: Kimberly McCarthy. McCarthy was a former nurse and cocaine addict who stabbed her neighbor to death before robbing her. And while her story is striking, the real shock is that there were 499 people executed before her since the United States resumed the death penalty in 1976, when states began to meet the criteria laid down by the Supreme Court in Furman v. Georgia. In that time, Texas has put more prisoners to death than the next six states combined.
The top ten states were: Texas, Virginia, Oklahoma, Florida, Missouri, Alabama, Georgia, Ohio, North Carolina, and South Carolina.
I think Utah warrants an "honorable mention" for this story from last year:
Five sharpshooters fired bullets through the heart of double murderer Ronnie Lee Gardner on Friday, making him the first U.S. prisoner in 14 years to be executed by firing squad.Shackled to a chair and with a black hood covering his head, Gardner, 49, was put to death just after midnight in a brightly lit execution chamber at Utah State Prison.
Asked if he had any last words, Gardner, who had been on death row for 25 years, replied: "I do not. No."
'Might want to bear this in mind if you decide to go postal.
(In the interest of full-disclosure, I actually oppose the death penalty. I do not like giving the State that much power over its citizens and the notion runs counter to my belief in the sanctity of human life. It's not a big issue for me in terms of my voting patterns, but I wish society put more serious effort into prison reform and rehabilitation. My dad was a probation officer in D.C. for decades and my sister is one now. That may have contributed to my attitudes on the death penalty.)
Open thread.
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2
But, the question concerning death penalty for not supporting Gay Marriage seems to have a spike in support.
Odd, that.
Odd, that.
Posted by: Village Idiot's Apprentice at April 05, 2014 05:35 AM (hDwVv)
4
some people cannot be "rehabilitated"
most death penalty criminals fall into that category
Posted by: thunderb at April 05, 2014 05:37 AM (zOTsN)
6
Humberto Leal GarcÃa, Jr. (January 16, 1973 – July 7, 2011) was[1] a Mexican inmate on death row in the US state of Texas for the May 21, 1994, rape, torture, and murder of Adria Sauceda in San Antonio
Posted by: thunderb at April 05, 2014 05:40 AM (zOTsN)
7
>>4 some people cannot be "rehabilitated"
>>most death penalty criminals fall into that category
I know what you're saying. But I think that very few people get to that stage of being beyond "help" right away. I think much damage is done during the years leading up to that stage, both in the courts and in the prisons. If those things were addressed, far fewer people would be at the stage where we'd just give up and warehouse them for life.
Posted by: Y-not from her sick bed at April 05, 2014 05:41 AM (zDsvJ)
9
James Byrd, Jr. (May 2, 1949 – June 7, 199
was an African-American who was murdered by three men, of whom at least two were white supremacists, in Jasper, Texas, on June 7, 1998. Shawn Berry, Lawrence Russell Brewer, and John King dragged Byrd for three miles behind a pick-up truck along an asphalt road. Byrd, who remained conscious throughout most of the ordeal, was killed when his body hit the edge of a culvert, severing his right arm and head
Lawrence Russell Brewer was executed by lethal injection for this crime by the state of Texas on September 21, 2011
was an African-American who was murdered by three men, of whom at least two were white supremacists, in Jasper, Texas, on June 7, 1998. Shawn Berry, Lawrence Russell Brewer, and John King dragged Byrd for three miles behind a pick-up truck along an asphalt road. Byrd, who remained conscious throughout most of the ordeal, was killed when his body hit the edge of a culvert, severing his right arm and head
Lawrence Russell Brewer was executed by lethal injection for this crime by the state of Texas on September 21, 2011Posted by: thunderb at April 05, 2014 05:43 AM (zOTsN)
11
BTW, I should clarify that "rehabilitation" does not necessarily lead to "release." I simply mean turning a person from being an animal back into a person again. IOW, someone whose life has some positive value for society, even if that value is busting rocks or making license plates.
Posted by: Y-not from her sick bed at April 05, 2014 05:43 AM (zDsvJ)
12
Open thread, VI.
I just wanted to put up the gardening thread early b/c I'm pretty g-d sick right now.
Posted by: Y-not from her sick bed at April 05, 2014 05:44 AM (zDsvJ)
13
I'm sorry Ynot but this is a pet peeve of mine. They ask the questions in a way to elicit a no vote. If they asked do you favor the death penalty for people who have been convicted of first degree murder PLUS a special circumstance (rape, robbery, child victim, etc.)and where the aggravating factors outweigh the mitigating ones, the support is much higher.
Posted by: Progressive Pug at April 05, 2014 05:46 AM (vFh9Q)
14
Tommy Lynn Sells (June 28, 1964 – April 3, 2014) was an American serial killer. Sells is believed to have committed at least 22 murders. Retired Texas Ranger John Allen states, "We did confirm 22... I know there's more. I know there's a lot more. Obviously, we won't ever know." On April 3, 2014, Sells was executed
Posted by: thunderb at April 05, 2014 05:46 AM (zOTsN)
15
Y-not.
Hang in there.
Hope you feel better soon.
Remember, it's always darkest just before the nuclear fireball.
Hang in there.
Hope you feel better soon.
Remember, it's always darkest just before the nuclear fireball.
Posted by: Village Idiot's Apprentice at April 05, 2014 05:47 AM (hDwVv)
16
Suzanne Margaret "Sue" Basso (née Burns; May 15, 1954 – February 5, 2014) was an American woman who was one of six co-defendants convicted in the August 1998 murder of Louis "Buddy" Musso, a mentally retarded man, who was tortured and murdered for his life insurance money.[6] She was sentenced to death in October 1999. Basso was executed by lethal injection on February 5, 2014.[7]
Posted by: thunderb at April 05, 2014 05:47 AM (zOTsN)
17
The trouble with the death penalty is our judicial system is so awful that I have no faith it can accurately determine guilt or innocence.
Posted by: Bevel Lemelisk at April 05, 2014 05:48 AM (BqGMB)
18
Kimberly LaGayle McCarthy (May 11, 1961 – June 26, 2013) was an American death row inmate who was convicted and sentenced to death for the 1997 murder of her neighbor, 71-year-old retired college professor Dorothy Booth, in her Lancaster, Texas (Dallas-Fort Worth area) home during a robbery. She was also a suspect in the murders of two other elderly Texas women, for which she was never tried.[1]
Posted by: thunderb at April 05, 2014 05:48 AM (zOTsN)
19
Elroy Chester (June 14, 1969 – June 12, 2013) was an inmate on the Texas death row who was executed at the Huntsville Unit, Huntsville, Texas, two days before his 44th birthday.[1] He was convicted in 1998 of fatally shooting Willie Ryman III, a firefighter in Port Arthur, Texas. He did so after raping Ryman's two nieces.[2] He had confessed to four other killings,[3] and his DNA was linked to three rapes, including that of a ten-year-old girl.[1][2][4] After his arrest, he said he committed these offenses because he was out his mind "with hate for white people."[5
Posted by: thunderb at April 05, 2014 05:49 AM (zOTsN)
20
#17 got it right. There are certainly individuals who deserve it, but the system is pathetically bad at meting it out...
Posted by: M. Murcek at April 05, 2014 05:50 AM (GJUgF)
21
13 I'm sorry Ynot but this is a pet peeve of mine. They ask the questions in a way to elicit a no vote.
--
Oh, yeah, I'm sure that's it. I just grabbed it because it was something to get discussion rolling and the report was released last month.
I think most Americans support the death penalty. Moreover, many folks like myself who oppose State Executions would (1) never hold a friggin vigil for some murderer on death row and (2) pray daily for the Sweet Meteor of Death to take out certain egregious criminals. I'd just rather SMOD (or God) meted out that penalty rather than the State.
Posted by: Y-not from her sick bed at April 05, 2014 05:52 AM (zDsvJ)
22
you cannot make someone into a human who is determined to be an animal. The people I listed above, who were all executed, also all confessed. There is no rehabilitation for these people. Once incarcerated, their criminality does not end. They just prey on other inmates. I live in the real world. Not the world I wish to be
Posted by: thunderb at April 05, 2014 05:53 AM (zOTsN)
23
I don't oppose the death penalty, but I think it should be reserved for particularly gruesome cases for which there is no doubt whatsoever as to the perpetrator. 500 in Texas, even if over almost 40 years, seems a little high to me, but I don't follow it closely enough to judge whether or not the 500 would have met my standards.
Posted by: mugiwara at April 05, 2014 05:53 AM (3a584)
24
if you really care about inmates that can be rehabilitated, then you need to remove the animals from their midst
Posted by: thunderb at April 05, 2014 05:54 AM (zOTsN)
25
What do we do with inmates already serving life-without-parole sentences who then murder a CO or another inmate? Slap them with another life sentence?
Posted by: Gran at April 05, 2014 05:54 AM (nPMjI)
26
As the crime rate goes up so does support for the death penalty. That's my observation looking at the dates on the chart.
Posted by: Mikey NTH - Stay Ragey. My Friends at April 05, 2014 05:55 AM (gmoEG)
27
22 you cannot make someone into a human who is determined to be an animal. The people I listed above, who were all executed, also all confessed. There is no rehabilitation for these people.
---
I disagree. If you read my comment upthread you'll see that my point is that it is rare that someone goes from "normal" to "mass-murderer" without plenty of intervening steps. If our justice system worked correctly, most would not get to that stage.
I don't have the stamina to go into it, but the things I learned from my father, who worked with some of the most heinous criminals on the planet, really solidified for me all the ways that we fail as a society to address and correct the behaviors leading up to serious crimes.
I think that's why the pooh-poohing of Mike Vick's sick behavior really bothered me so much.
Posted by: Y-not from her sick bed at April 05, 2014 05:57 AM (zDsvJ)
28
On Wednesday, Texas executed its 500th person: Kimberly McCarthy. McCarthy was a former nurse and cocaine addict who stabbed her neighbor to death before robbing her. And while her story is striking, the real shock is that there were 499 people executed before her since the United States resumed the death penalty in 1976, when states began to meet the criteria laid down by the Supreme Court in Furman v. Georgia. In that time, Texas has put more prisoners to death than the next six states combined.
Here we go again -- lets just down play the horror these murderers have done. McCarthy was not a former nurse. She worked as an aide in a nursing home.
"On July 21, 1997 McCarthy entered the home of her 71-year-old neighbor Dorothy Booth under the pretense of borrowing some sugar and then "stabbed Mrs. Booth five times, hit her in the face with a candelabrum, cut off her left ring finger in order to take her diamond ring, and nearly severed her left little finger as well." McCarthy v. State, No. 74590, 2004 WL 3093230, at *2 (Tex. Crim. App. 2004). McCarthy then took Mrs. Booth's purse and its contents, along with her wedding ring and fled in her car. Later, McCarthy bought drugs with the stolen money, used the stolen credit cards, and pawned the stolen wedding ring. This was the last in a series of robbery-murders that McCarthy committed against her elderly female acquaintances."
Yes, she also butchered two other elderly women, stabbing them in the face.
The people in Texas - one of the larges states by population, supports the DP. And their elected officials actually follow the laws -- unlike in other states. So, why act shocked that they have a lot of executions?
Posted by: Progressive Pug at April 05, 2014 05:57 AM (vFh9Q)
29
>>26 As the crime rate goes up so does support for the death penalty.
I was expecting a spike after September 11th, but I don't really see one. Of course, those folks weren't citizens, so I'd have no trouble executing them.
Posted by: Y-not from her sick bed at April 05, 2014 05:58 AM (zDsvJ)
30
do we really want the same federal government that did the nsa thing and the irs thing and the epa thing and the fast and furious thing and the new black panthers thing to be in charge of who lives and dies in the criminal justice system?
its kind of a scary thing if you think about it...
Posted by: sound awake at April 05, 2014 05:59 AM (fKOqs)
31
I go back and forth on the death penalty. I am closer to Y-not's view. Of course there are people who merit it. Of course. But I too do not want the power of life and death to reside in the State. The State is corrupt and should not have the power of life and death over anyone.
Posted by: grammie winger at April 05, 2014 06:00 AM (oMKp3)
32
I disagree. If you read my comment upthread you'll see that my point is that it is rare that someone goes from "normal" to "mass-murderer" without plenty of intervening steps. If our justice system worked correctly, most would not get to that stage.
Posted by: Y-not from her sick bed at April 05, 2014 09:57 AM (zDsvJ)
I'll chalk this up to fever...
Posted by: Progressive Pug at April 05, 2014 06:01 AM (vFh9Q)
33
Those against the death penalty should offer on Craigslist to have a paid get together of a good steak dinner with drinks and a sleepover with the local serial killer. And have a chance to convince them into a change of heart.
Posted by: LaZrtx at April 05, 2014 06:02 AM (jVM6/)
34
The death penalty is necessary because there are some crimes that are so obscene and depraved, and some criminals that are so twisted that no amount of rehabilitation can ever cure them, or render them safe for readmission into society. If given the opportunity, they will always kill, rape, mutilate, maim, or assault again, because that is their nature.
It is for those, and for those alone that the death penalty exists. Why should the state go to great expense to warehouse them until they die a natural death, when odds are that they will spend the rest of their lives only detracting from society and consuming resources? Why should we give them more chances to kill, when we can be sure that is what they will do given the chance?
Mercy is great, but it must be tempered with reason. As the old verse goes, he who is kind to the cruel is cruel to the kind.
Posted by: Cato at April 05, 2014 06:03 AM (J+mig)
35
YNot what do we do once they are there, once they are serial killers? You cannot rehab that.
No one in Texas is being executed for torturing and killing dogs. No one is proposing that. No one ever has.
Rehab is a fell good word with little meaning. How do you stop Jeffrey Dhamer from becoming Jeffrey Dahmer? No body knows
Do you incarcerate him for life before he kills a person? Who would make that determination? A psychiatrist? As the news shows, they are not very good at it. All the spree killers were under psychiatric care. And on medication. They still killed. Their psychiatrists cleared them
You cannot rehab some things
Posted by: thunderb at April 05, 2014 06:04 AM (zOTsN)
36
25 What do we do with inmates already serving life-without-parole sentences who then murder a CO or another inmate? Slap them with another life sentence?
Posted by: Gran at April 05, 2014 09:54 AM (nPMjI)
Tell me about it. There was a guy in CA seriving a life sentence for murdering a young woman. He thought if he had all the trial wits murdered and his case was reversed on appeal, there would be no wits to testifiey against him in the second trial. So another 5 people lost their lives while this guy was already in prison for murder.
Then there were the guys who escaped from prison in TX and murdered the cop on Christmas Eve.
Posted by: Progressive Pug at April 05, 2014 06:04 AM (vFh9Q)
37
@17 is my problem with the death penalty, too.
Some people need a killing, don't deny that. However, even one innocent murdered by the state is too many. Since I have no faith in our system, have to be against the death penalty. Not saying those daft hippies at The Innocence Project are all the way right, but the number of innocents they get freed is pretty fucking troubling.
To the point of prisons being animal factories, that's true too. Starship Troopers had a good take on interdicting before someone became a monster, beat the crap out of them when they start getting cheeky so you don't have to kill them later.
Posted by: Clownf*cker at April 05, 2014 06:05 AM (l2max)
38
33 Those against the death penalty should offer on Craigslist to have a paid get together of a good steak dinner with drinks and a sleepover with the local serial killer. And have a chance to convince them into a change of heart.
Posted by: LaZrtx at April 05, 2014 10:02 AM (jVM6/)
I know you're being facetious, but there are indeed prison ministries that do go into these situations and counsel prisoners to help them change their lives around. There is even one prison I'm familiar with that has established a joint seminary program with an outside theological school, and prisoners who have come to Christ are being trained as ministers of the Gospel.
Posted by: grammie winger at April 05, 2014 06:07 AM (oMKp3)
39
As thunderb mention Sells liked to rape little girls and slit their throats. Also, he stabbed to death a pregnant woman who gave spontaneous birth and then he beat to death the newborn with a baseball bat. He also murdered her 3 year old.
Posted by: Progressive Pug at April 05, 2014 06:08 AM (vFh9Q)
40
The Innocence Project does good work, usually with DNA. You will note, however, that the vast majority of cases they overturn are rape cases, because of DNA technology which was not around when most of those errant convictions occurred. The murderers I listed above all confessed. There was no question, at all, as to their guilt.
And as for prisons being animal factories, the first thing you have to do is remove the animals. Prisoners do not stop their criminality because they are incarcerated. The victim pool changes
Posted by: thunderb at April 05, 2014 06:09 AM (zOTsN)
42
Just finished the podcast, subscribed to Conservative Intel. I'll say the "Firefox Input" site is a breath of fresh a air. Just saw a link on FB, you rate Firefox with a simple sad face/happy face and then write what your experience was. Nearly unanimous condemnation.
Posted by: Lincolntf at April 05, 2014 06:09 AM (ZshNr)
43
I can find no reason for someone who commits an act so egregious as to incur nausea learning of it to continue to exist on the planet.
If such an event to impact my family, the perpetrator might just as well sit down and wait for it. I would not burden the justice system with reprisal.
I only speak on a personal level, being unable to allow such a situation that directly would affect me or mine.
No apologies or regrets for this stance.
I can find no reason for someone who commits an act so egregious as to incur nausea learning of it to continue to exist on the planet.
If such an event to impact my family, the perpetrator might just as well sit down and wait for it. I would not burden the justice system with reprisal.
I only speak on a personal level, being unable to allow such a situation that directly would affect me or mine.
No apologies or regrets for this stance.
Posted by: irongrampa at April 05, 2014 06:10 AM (SAMxH)
44
Chelsea Handler for Letterman is a potential drudge links.
Oh man. I hate that woman. She's so obnoxious.
Posted by: artisanal 'ette at April 05, 2014 06:17 AM (IXrOn)
45
I'm with Ron White on this. If you kill us here in OK, we'll kill you back.
The simpler the rules of justice, the better justice is then served.
I don't want to pay for a murderer to get fat in prison on my dime.
Posted by: Soona at April 05, 2014 06:17 AM (vqmvw)
46
The only reason I note The Innocence Project is for examples of the justice system getting it completely wrong.
I'd actually be interested in running the numbers on which is cheaper: paying to have the worst of the worst make little rocks all by their lonesomes for the rest of their lives vs. the legal costs of actually putting someone to death.
Posted by: Clownf*cker at April 05, 2014 06:17 AM (l2max)
47
The death penalty is supposed to be used by society to protect society. It should be applied to murderers that are a proven menace. Keeping them alive is a risk that we force everyone to bear.
Posted by: Blue Hen at April 05, 2014 06:18 AM (DM5Ao)
48
@42
I've blocked Firefox from access to my blog. Not that it gets much traffic to start with, but I had to do something.
Posted by: Gran at April 05, 2014 06:18 AM (nPMjI)
49
I lived in New Mexico for 30 years and it was effectively a no death
penalty state, since no one had been executed since 1960. In 1986,
outgoing governor Toney Anaya commuted the sentences of all the death
row inmates to life w/o parole.
In July of 1986, Terry Clark kidnapped and murdered and raped a 9 year old girl, Dena Gore, while he was out on bond during his appeal for kidnapping and raping another 9 year old girl. He pled guilty in hopes of having his death sentence commuted by Anaya, but the judge refused to expedite sentencing so that could happen and he was sentenced to death after Anaya left office and incidentally, the state.
Clark was granted a new trial in 1996 and again sentenced to death. He was eventually executed in 2001 after refusing to further appeal his conviction and sentence.
I was surveyed by an anti-death penalty group shortly after the execution. They asked me a lot of questions about how I feel about the death penalty and how I would feel if an innocent man were executed and at the end of the survey, asked if I had any additional comments. So I told them about Dena Gore and her brutal death at the hands of a man who had already kidnapped and raped a girl just her same age. I told them he'd been executed just a couple months before. I told them that if I could, I'd dig the son of a bitch up and execute him again.
In July of 1986, Terry Clark kidnapped and murdered and raped a 9 year old girl, Dena Gore, while he was out on bond during his appeal for kidnapping and raping another 9 year old girl. He pled guilty in hopes of having his death sentence commuted by Anaya, but the judge refused to expedite sentencing so that could happen and he was sentenced to death after Anaya left office and incidentally, the state.
Clark was granted a new trial in 1996 and again sentenced to death. He was eventually executed in 2001 after refusing to further appeal his conviction and sentence.
I was surveyed by an anti-death penalty group shortly after the execution. They asked me a lot of questions about how I feel about the death penalty and how I would feel if an innocent man were executed and at the end of the survey, asked if I had any additional comments. So I told them about Dena Gore and her brutal death at the hands of a man who had already kidnapped and raped a girl just her same age. I told them he'd been executed just a couple months before. I told them that if I could, I'd dig the son of a bitch up and execute him again.
Posted by: huerfano at April 05, 2014 06:18 AM (bAGA/)
50
House all the worst in someplace like the Black Dolphin in Russia, the costs just have to be cheaper than the appeals process.
Posted by: Clownf*cker at April 05, 2014 06:19 AM (l2max)
51
In principle, I am a believer in the death penalty precisely because I believe in the sanctity of life. From the Creator of life:
"Whoever sheds human blood,
by humans shall their blood be shed;
for in the image of God
has God made mankind." (Gen. 9:6)
I believe it is also a matter of justice.
I am also fine in principle with the state carrying out the death penalty. (Romans 13:4) What is the alternative?
HOWEVER, I also believe that it is an abomination for an innocent person to be put to death (lots of biblical support for that - not that you have to believe the Bible to believe that). So, I would rather have no death penalty than a crappy justice system choosing whom to put to death.
Death penalty only when there is *incontrovertible* evidence of guilt, and then, it should be done swiftly after a couple of appeals that don't drag on until the death row inmate dies of old age.
That being said, it seems the murderers Texas cases thunderb highlighted needed killin'.
Posted by: chique d'afrique (the artist formerly known as african chick) at April 05, 2014 06:20 AM (r+7wo)
52
33 Those against the death penalty should offer on Craigslist to have a paid get together of a good steak dinner with drinks and a sleepover with the local serial killer. And have a chance to convince them into a change of heart.
There are two distinct reasons to oppose the death penalty:
1) you have doubts our legal system can reliably determine guilt or innocence. At least with jail, you can release them and say, 'oops.'
2) you view the death penalty as savage/barbaric/whatever.
The two are very, very different arguments. I have no objection to killing guilty people, but I question our ability to determine guilt.
Posted by: Bevel Lemelisk at April 05, 2014 06:21 AM (TAP/5)
53
Every bit helps. I've got something called Flash Fox on my tablet, don't remember where it came from, never use it. It'll be gone.
Posted by: Lincolntf at April 05, 2014 06:22 AM (ZshNr)
54
Posted by: sound awake at April 05, 2014 09:59 AM (fKOqs)
You left out the jury.
Pro death penalty here. Just wish it was administered in a timely manner.q
Posted by: RWC at April 05, 2014 06:23 AM (QeH9j)
55
and then there is spree killer Richard Speck, who systematically tortured, raped, and murdered eight student nurses from South Chicago Community Hospital on July 14, 1966. He was given the death penalty but due to legal wrangling lived a relatively long time in prison and died of a heart attack. He made a little film while incarcerated;
In May 1996, Chicago television news anchor Bill Kurtis received video tapes made at Stateville Prison in 1988 from an anonymous attorney. Kurtis pointed out the explicit scenes of sex, drug use, and money being passed around by prisoners, who seemingly had no fear of being caught; in the center was Speck, performing oral sex on another inmate, sharing a huge pile of cocaine with an inmate, parading in silk panties, sporting female-like breasts (allegedly grown using smuggled hormone treatments), and boasting, "If they only knew how much fun I was having, they'd turn me loose."
From behind the camera, a prisoner asked Speck if he had killed the nurses. Speck responded, "Sure I did." When asked why. Speck shrugged and jokingly said, "It just wasn't their night." Asked how he felt about himself in the years since, he said, "Like I always felt ... had no feeling. If you're asking me if I felt sorry, no." He also described in detail the experience of strangling someone: "It's not like TV ... it takes over three minutes and you have to have a lot of strength." John Schmale, the brother of one of the murdered student nurses, said, "It was a very painful experience watching him tell about how he killed my sister."
the world would have been better off if he were executed
Posted by: thunderb at April 05, 2014 06:23 AM (zOTsN)
58
One thing that violent career criminals are good at is manipulating the system for personal gain. That can include saying what they think a counselor or prison worker wants to hear. I put very little faith in the State being able to accurately gauge when a murderer is "no longer a threat".
I write this from the point of view of someone who has had a family member murdered by a known felon who so far has gotten away with it scot free.
(link in nick)
Posted by: S. Muldoon at April 05, 2014 06:23 AM (g4TxM)
59
psychopaths cannot be rehabilitated
nor pedophiles
and serial rapists
Posted by: artisanal 'ette at April 05, 2014 06:24 AM (IXrOn)
60
Posted by: American Dawg at April 05, 2014 10:23 AM (p6iIL)
Easy. The unborn are innocent. The murderers chose their path.
Posted by: RWC at April 05, 2014 06:24 AM (QeH9j)
61
Posted by: thunderb at April 05, 2014 10:23 AM (zOTsN)
And yet you'll have "compassionate" libs asking us to have sympathy on such vile, unrepentant murderers.
Funny how they never champion the causes of the victims and victims' families, only the depraved criminals.
Posted by: chique d'afrique (the artist formerly known as african chick) at April 05, 2014 06:25 AM (r+7wo)
62
56 If your Pro Life can you be for the
death penalty also ?
Yes.
There is a difference between a baby and a murderer. The difference is the same as the difference between an innocent person and a guilty one.
Posted by: Bevel Lemelisk at April 05, 2014 06:25 AM (TAP/5)
63
If your Pro Life can you be for the
death penalty also ?
How do you reason that ?
****
Get your dictionary and look up 'guilt' and 'innocence'.
Posted by: S. Muldoon at April 05, 2014 06:26 AM (g4TxM)
64
Considering that the time between sentencing and execution seems to run somewhere between 10 and 30 years, I would say that talking about a "death sentence" is not only a joke but a singularly bad one. Give 'em one year for appeals and then open the trap door...
Posted by: emdfl at April 05, 2014 06:26 AM (+hPIb)
65
56 If your Pro Life can you be for the
death penalty also ?
See my comment above. I believe the death penalty rightly applied is an expression of the sanctity of human life.
Posted by: chique d'afrique (the artist formerly known as african chick) at April 05, 2014 06:27 AM (r+7wo)
66
56 If your Pro Life can you be for the
death penalty also ?
How do you reason that ?
One is the taking of innocent life, without due process of law, without an attorney to represent the one facing death, with no crime committed, with no possibility of appeal. So there's an enormous difference .
That said, since so many make the argument that you cannot be prolife and also support the death penalty, I would gladly take one off the table so as to make the argument for the other that much more clear. I would rather a hundred criminals live if it meant millions of babies did as well.
Posted by: grammie winger at April 05, 2014 06:29 AM (oMKp3)
67
We also have to remember that these shitbags sometimes get decades of appeals, also on my dime. So it's not like they're marched out to the execution chamber on their initial conviction.
Posted by: Soona at April 05, 2014 06:29 AM (vqmvw)
68
All this about the rights of murdering animals and how barbaric and savage the death penalty is...how barbaric and savage did most of them treat their innocent victims and what life-long damage have they done to their family and friends?
Posted by: dumbartist at April 05, 2014 06:29 AM (ahBY0)
69
I changed the date range on the Firefox Input page to make sure today was included, and it's a flat line. There are another twenty comments every time I hit refresh, soooo...that leads me to believe they've turned off their own website to pretend the backlash isn't happening. I hope they're stressed out, panicking and in-fighting at all levels of management.
Posted by: Lincolntf at April 05, 2014 06:29 AM (ZshNr)
70
And quite honestly, I wouldn't trust this government with a sharp knife, let alone the power of life and death.
Posted by: Bevel Lemelisk at April 05, 2014 06:30 AM (TAP/5)
71
Pro life does not mean never ever kill. For example, killing in self-defense is not a problem. It means respect and protect human life. Sometimes that involves killing. Again, see self-defense.
Posted by: chique d'afrique (the artist formerly known as african chick) at April 05, 2014 06:30 AM (r+7wo)
72
The real question is "Do we have standards that we enforce on what it means to be a civilized human being?"
The Left wants no standards, so they can do what they like. And they have criminals vote for the Left, and State and Local prisons sign them up for subsidized Obamacare. As a society, we are currently reinforcing failure.
Soon the Left/State will want to kill those they do not like. But this is not yet a criminal death penalty issue.
Posted by: NaCly Dog at April 05, 2014 06:30 AM (u82oZ)
73
"If such an event to impact my family, the perpetrator might just as well sit down and wait for it. I would not burden the justice system with reprisal."
If my daughter was killed by some dirtbag, I'd move heaven and earth to bring justice to the perpetrator even at the cost of my own life if need be.
Posted by: gdonovan at April 05, 2014 06:30 AM (akPWh)
74
And quite honestly, I wouldn't trust this government with a sharp knife, let alone the power of life and death.
Posted by: Bevel Lemelisk
OK
how about when they confess?
you trust that?
Posted by: thunderb at April 05, 2014 06:31 AM (zOTsN)
75
If DNA can find convicts innocent, it can also make guilt clearer than ever. The likelihood of the innocent being executed is now lower than ever.
Posted by: --- at April 05, 2014 06:31 AM (MMC8r)
76
OK
how about when they confess?
you trust that?
The government will never confess 
And confessions can be coerced.
And confessions can be coerced. Posted by: Bevel Lemelisk at April 05, 2014 06:33 AM (TAP/5)
77
If DNA can find convicts innocent, it can also make guilt clearer than ever. The likelihood of the innocent being executed is now lower than ever.
Posted by: ---
this
Posted by: thunderb at April 05, 2014 06:34 AM (zOTsN)
78
speaking of the death penalty, hawaiistan is holding its first d/p trial right now
federal level though
army guy beat his daughter to death
everyone I talk to says they hope he gets the needle
Posted by: navycopjoe at April 05, 2014 06:34 AM (AtwlV)
79
The real question is how you can support abortion and be against the death penalty.
Posted by: --- at April 05, 2014 06:35 AM (MMC8r)
80
speaking of the death penalty, hawaiistan is holding its first d/p trial right now
federal level though
army guy beat his daughter to death
everyone I talk to says they hope he gets the needle
Posted by: navycopjoe
is the military doing the prosecution?
Posted by: thunderb at April 05, 2014 06:36 AM (zOTsN)
81
Posted by: --- at April 05, 2014 10:31 AM (MMC8r)
If you ever watch CSI, they do this thing where they claim they can trace a bullet to a box of ammo. It's based on a real-life forensic practice...
...which turned out to be total bullshit after some scientists looked into it. Thousands of cases were reopened.
Posted by: Bevel Lemelisk at April 05, 2014 06:36 AM (TAP/5)
82
65: Exactly as I believe. The sanctity of human life is undermined when you let people kill without dire consequences, and being warehoused in a climate-controlled building with 3 hots, a cot, cable TV, and free medical care for the rest of your natural life doesn't strike me as fitting the crime at all.
Posted by: Cato at April 05, 2014 06:36 AM (J+mig)
83
Hell, it seems like most jurors these days can't even spell "DNA" much less interpret it as evidence.
Posted by: S. Muldoon at April 05, 2014 06:37 AM (g4TxM)
84
79 The real question is how you can support abortion and be against the death penalty.
Posted by: --- at April 05, 2014 10:35 AM (MMC8r)
And bingo was his name-o!
Exactly!
Posted by: RWC at April 05, 2014 06:37 AM (QeH9j)
85
Thanks to those that answered the question about Pro Life vs. Pro Death Penalty . I to use to be pro death penalty but I have changed over the last 10 years. This is a direct result of My Christianity , Government Incompetence and crooked Cops.
This quote from the Bible.
" Bless those who persecute you; bless and do not curse... Repay no one evil for evil... do not avenge yourselves, but rather give place to wrath; for it is written, "Vengeance is Mine, I Will repay," says the Lord." Rom. 12:14, 17, 19
This quote from the Bible.
" Bless those who persecute you; bless and do not curse... Repay no one evil for evil... do not avenge yourselves, but rather give place to wrath; for it is written, "Vengeance is Mine, I Will repay," says the Lord." Rom. 12:14, 17, 19
Posted by: American Dawg at April 05, 2014 06:37 AM (p6iIL)
86
I understand the concerns about the ability of the state to decide who lives and dies, but there is a system in place that puts a good bit of this power back into the hands of the people. I would oppose a system in which a single judge had the power without any way of appealing to a larger body. Since that doesn't exist, I ultimately feel comfortable with the logistics of our current system.
However, if we're being honest I'm more comfortable with vigilante justice. Oh you raped my daughter? Well, I'm going to shoot you in the face.
Posted by: Lauren at April 05, 2014 06:38 AM (hFL/3)
87
Nadal Hasan is on death row. No rehab for him.
And rehab is not the only goal of sentencing. Punishment is a legitimate goal of sentencing. Some things are so awful, the person must be punished, regardless of rehabilitation
Its in the sentencing guidelines.
Posted by: thunderb at April 05, 2014 06:39 AM (zOTsN)
88
80 nope, the army turned over jurisdiction to the feds since it happened in base housing
Posted by: navycopjoe at April 05, 2014 06:40 AM (AtwlV)
89
What about the number of homicides that have been committed by previously convicted murderers?
We grant the state the power to impose justice, so that individuals do not extract it themselves. When a previously convicted murderer murders again, then the state has failed. What do you say to the friends and families of those murdered?
Here is a short list. It does not include any corrections officers, who are often the victims.
You may not think that it happens often, but it has happened in some 1000 cases or so since 1990.
Posted by: Mike Hammer at April 05, 2014 06:41 AM (aDwsi)
90
Pro life does not mean never ever kill. For example, killing in self-defense is not a problem. It means respect and protect human life. Sometimes that involves killing. Again, see self-defense.
Posted by: chique d'afrique (the artist formerly known as african chick) at April 05, 2014 10:30 AM (r+7wo)
Exactly.
Posted by: artisanal 'ette at April 05, 2014 06:41 AM (IXrOn)
91
As Yoda once said, "There is another". He wasn't referring to New Jersey politicians but is still applies, at least to diehard supporters of RINO moderates who "can get elected". Yeah, I know, spare me.
Anyway, the President of Estonia turns out to be from New Jersey and he hates Paul Krugman. Anyone who describes that little fuck as "smug, overbearing and patronizing" is A-OK. Plus he uses ampersands. The WSJ has a profile of what it's like being president of a road bump lying between Moscow and the Baltic States, and its something maybe President "I don't give a shit" might want to read before teeing off today.
http://on.wsj.com/QP5BsX
Posted by: MTF at April 05, 2014 06:41 AM (F58x4)
92
89 - Oops, forgot list
http://www.wesleylowe.com/repoff.html
Posted by: Mike Hammer at April 05, 2014 06:41 AM (aDwsi)
93
The death penalty has been abused. Badly, historically. Plenty of reason to think it still is.
Innocents (at least of the crimes for which they were killed) have been executed. Many times, surely.
A living innocent unjustly incarcerated always has hope of release. The innocent executed, not so much.
The whole concept of jail, punishment, and probation is harsh, and has become an intolerably huge and corrupt industry having little to do with justice and nothing to do with rehabilitation; a reflection of the failing of our level of moral advancement as a society - yes, better than our ancestors, but hideously barbaric by our descendants' standards. I hope.
And, as mentioned, giving The State such power is dangerous, when the State is not people of intelligent self-rule.
NEVERTHELESS
If a person is proved to be, by our best current understandings, an irredeemable sociopath, civilized citizens have every right to protect ourselves, to intervene, to incarcerate, to prevent reproduction of the genetically criminal, and to terminate life, depending on the level of threat. The threat is to those who must manage the prisons, as well as the remote but real threat of escape. (Cost of feeding & housing the hopeless degenerate, obnoxious as it is, ought not be relevant considerations compared to justice and social welfare.)
If a person has a brain tumor affecting self-control, today, we may remove it and, watched carefully, that person may lead a normal life. In the past, they could do nothing but lock him up or hang him, not knowing his medical problems. In the futute, wonders of therapy and drugs and DNA science and spiritual counsel may make true rehabilitation so common that jails are rare. Society may become advanced enough not to produce such a burdensome criminal class in the first place.
However, today's justice cannot depend on what our descendants may learn. They were relatively right to jail or hang in the past, at times. It is still right, at times. It may always be true, at times. We just hope to make the times as few as possible. as fair as possible, to the best of our times' abilities, confident that higher judges will sort us all out perfectly in the next life.
:: waggles wig, sneezes ::
Posted by: mindful webworker in powdered wig at April 05, 2014 06:42 AM (Jh9QN)
94
74 And quite honestly, I wouldn't trust this government with a sharp knife, let alone the power of life and death.
Posted by: Bevel Lemelisk
----------------
The fed government rarely executes anyone. States do. Some states are better at determining guilt or innocence than others. Mostly because some states aren't as caught up in political correctness as others.
So don't confuse the fed government with the various states' governments.
Posted by: Soona at April 05, 2014 06:42 AM (rQycF)
95
Notice how the peak is just after the O. J. Simpson trial
Posted by: Klaatu at April 05, 2014 06:42 AM (e8kgV)
96
Posted by: American Dawg at April 05, 2014 10:37 AM (p6iIL)
It's interesting that in the story of the death penalty case in the Gospels , Jesus declined to enforce the accepted written penalty as codified in Jewish law. (The woman taken in the act of adultery)
Posted by: grammie winger at April 05, 2014 06:42 AM (oMKp3)
97
Mike Hammer,
Not to mention the child rapists who go on to rape and kill other children...
This is a bit personal for me. The man who murdered my cousin got 8 years in jail, and was out in 4 on work release. All because he rolled on some meth dealers to get a deal.
That is, in a word, bullshit.
Posted by: Lauren at April 05, 2014 06:42 AM (hFL/3)
98
86 Oh you raped my daughter? Well, I'm going to shoot you in the face.
you misspelled go at you with a razor blade and bleach for a few days
Posted by: navycopjoe at April 05, 2014 06:43 AM (AtwlV)
99
in that Hawaii case, it was initially charged as a court martial, but the feds took it from the military because they wanted the husband and wife to be tried together. Wife is a civilian and the military lacks jurisdiction over her.
Posted by: thunderb at April 05, 2014 06:44 AM (zOTsN)
100
Death penalty opponents love to point out that it costs more, in terms of appeals, etc, to execute a person than it costs to incarcerate them for life. True enough. However, I guarantee that if we abolished the death penalty, all of that money being spent on death penalty appeals would instantly be shifted into fighting sentences of life without parole. There is a contingent of society (many of whom went to law school) who are hell-bent on making sure that criminals receive little if any sanction under the guise of "rehabilitation."
Posted by: PabloD at April 05, 2014 06:44 AM (U9pBL)
101
This has been bugging me since I read it. Will people sue?
HHS “Started” Individual Obamacare Applications Prior To Deadline,Obtained Personal Info From States
In the closing days of the open enrollment period for the Affordable Care Act (ACA) , the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services (HHS) was mailing out letters notifying certain Americans that they had already started a healthcare coverage application on their behalf.
The HHS letter stated that the information they used to begin the application for individual Healthcare was obtain by the state agency in charge of implementing Obamacare.
Creepy and scary.
Not only were they filling it out and sending to people - they acquired the info from the state.
http://www.shark-tank.com/
Posted by: artisanal 'ette at April 05, 2014 06:46 AM (IXrOn)
102
This is a bit personal for me. The man who murdered my cousin got 8 years in jail, and was out in 4 on work release. All because he rolled on some meth dealers to get a deal.
That is, in a word, bullshit.
Posted by: Lauren at April 05, 2014 10:42 AM (hFL/3)
****
Absolutely. Sad to hear of this Lauren. I wish for your family's sake that the earthly punishment had fit the crime. I believe other justice will ultimately prevail. I'll say a little prayer on your cousin's behalf.
Posted by: S. Muldoon at April 05, 2014 06:48 AM (g4TxM)
103
Posted by: artisanal 'ette at April 05, 2014 10:46 AM (IXrOn)
I have a feeling these applications were counted in that 7 million enrollment figure too.
Posted by: grammie winger at April 05, 2014 06:48 AM (oMKp3)
104
Countries with the Most Confirmed Executions in 2013
1. China (1,000s)
2. Iran (369+)
3. Iraq (169+)
4. Saudi Arabia (79+)
5. United States (39)
6. Somalia (34+)
1. China (1,000s)
2. Iran (369+)
3. Iraq (169+)
4. Saudi Arabia (79+)
5. United States (39)
6. Somalia (34+)
Posted by: Frank Underwood at April 05, 2014 06:48 AM (e8kgV)
105
Posted by: American Dawg at April 05, 2014 10:37 AM (p6iIL)
There's a difference between taking personal vengeance, which is what Christ was talking about, and punishing crime. Or else we shouldn't prosecute and punish thieves and other criminals, either.
Also from Romans (13:4):
For the one in authority is GodÂ’s servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for rulers do not bear the sword for no reason. They are GodÂ’s servants, agents of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer.
Posted by: chique d'afrique (the artist formerly known as african chick) at April 05, 2014 06:49 AM (r+7wo)
106
@ Grammie Winger -
You made some great points above and from the Bible we also have this .
"But if you do not forgive men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses." Mat. 6:15
To me , this is the one of the strongest statements that was taught by Jesus.
You made some great points above and from the Bible we also have this .
"But if you do not forgive men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses." Mat. 6:15
To me , this is the one of the strongest statements that was taught by Jesus.
Posted by: American Dawg at April 05, 2014 06:49 AM (p6iIL)
107
99 yep
although they dropped the death case against the wife for her testimony I believe
id ask T but she is still asleep
Posted by: navycopjoe at April 05, 2014 06:49 AM (AtwlV)
108
Posted by: American Dawg at April 05, 2014 10:37 AM (p6iIL)
Also, the same God who said vengeance is mine instituted the death penalty in the Mosaic law. Context.
Posted by: chique d'afrique (the artist formerly known as african chick) at April 05, 2014 06:50 AM (r+7wo)
109
I see much of what my tl;dr said has been said awreddy, of course, one way or another, usu better. Esp liked thunderb's, including, "Once incarcerated, their criminality does not end."
Posted by: mindful webworker in clown wig at April 05, 2014 06:50 AM (Vs6FA)
110
93 Innocents (at least of the crimes for which they were killed) have been executed. Many times, surely.
never been proven
Posted by: navycopjoe at April 05, 2014 06:51 AM (AtwlV)
111
Cook County Judge Cynthia Brim was recently arrested and locked up by authorities after tossing a set of keys and shoving a sheriffÂ’s deputy in the Daley Center court complex. WhatÂ’s interesting about the reporting is itÂ’s difficult to find a story that explains that that Judge Cynthia Brim is a relative of Jesse Jackson.
Just the day before, Brim presided over traffic-ticket cases — when she went on a racist tirade and had to be asked to leave the courtroom.
For her erratic actions, Brim has been removed from the bench indefinitely. However, in typical Chicago Jackson style, Brim doesnÂ’t care that sheÂ’s crazy and wants to be reinstated.
Just the day before, Brim presided over traffic-ticket cases — when she went on a racist tirade and had to be asked to leave the courtroom.
For her erratic actions, Brim has been removed from the bench indefinitely. However, in typical Chicago Jackson style, Brim doesnÂ’t care that sheÂ’s crazy and wants to be reinstated.
Posted by: Claire Underwood at April 05, 2014 06:53 AM (e8kgV)
112
forgiveness has nothing to do with justice, you can forgive your trespasser & your trespasser can still be executed...forgiveness is not a get off death row or out of jail free card.....
and only the victim can forgive the trespasser, it's a personal not a public act
Posted by: phoenixgirl @phxazgrl at April 05, 2014 06:54 AM (u8GsB)
113
NCJ the military could have prosecuted him no matter where the crime occurred as they have jurisdiction over the person wherever located. But in high profile cases like these, sometimes the state or the fed asks to try the case when they share jurisdiction
I had experience in a similar case. AF guy was stationed in England, Married to a nurse. They had a baby. She had to work. He watched the baby. He gave baby a bath, scalded it. Baby was flown to BAMC burn center in San Antonio but baby died after a month anyway.
Guy gets court martialed in England for killing the baby. They reduce the charge. He says it was an accident. Says he didn't test the water. An expert testifies that the water in England has high lime content and that increased the temperature, and that the tap comes out much hotter in the UK than in the states. Guy is acquitted. He and wife divorce.
He gets re-stationed in Texas in San Antonio. He remarries, another nurse. They have a baby. He watches the baby. Baby dies. Shaken baby syndrome, sunset eyes, the whole thing. He says it was an accident. He was holding the baby and tried to slap a mosquito and accidentally gave the baby one violent shake while doing so.
right
anyway, as fate would have it, same coroner. In Bexar county. Who was furious about the acquittal in the first case. And who, with his coroner brother, literally wrote the text book and was the north American expert on shaken baby syndrome. He pushed for the state to take the case and try him for murder. So they did
Posted by: thunderb at April 05, 2014 06:54 AM (zOTsN)
114
In July of 2013, Illinois became the last state in the union to enact a concealed carry law. In January of this year, the state began accepting applications for permits. This week, Chicago police announced that the cityÂ’s first quarter murder rate was the lowest since 1958.
Posted by: Jethro Bodine at April 05, 2014 06:54 AM (e8kgV)
115
I don't understand the term 'botched execution'
did the prisoner die?
if yes then it was successful, not botched
Posted by: navycopjoe at April 05, 2014 06:54 AM (AtwlV)
116
110 93 Innocents (at least of the crimes for which they were killed) have been executed. Many times, surely.
never been proven
Posted by: navycopjoe
-------------------
Like you, I await a proven case.
On the other hand, as I point out above, many , many times convicted murderers have murdered again.
Posted by: Mike Hammer at April 05, 2014 06:54 AM (aDwsi)
117
I go back and forth on the death penalty. What I don't get is that many of the same people who are against the death penalty are in favor of early release of people who have been sentenced to life in prison. You can't be against one and in favor of the other. I don't like the death penalty because it's final. If a mistake was made, they can't be brought back. Also, they can't talk, or provide information. The record speed in which the Feds offed Timothy McVeigh still bugs me. Not that he didn't deserve his fate, but what harm would it have been if they kept him around a little longer?
Posted by: JoeyBagels at April 05, 2014 06:54 AM (85WaJ)
118
Christians are no longer under the rule of the Mosaic law.
Posted by: American Dawg at April 05, 2014 06:55 AM (p6iIL)
119
(CNN) -- In what may turn out to be a major breakthrough in the monthlong search for Malaysia Airlines flight 370, a Chinese patrol ship searching the southern Indian Ocean discovered Saturday the pulse signal used by so-called black boxes, state news agency Xinhua reported.
But the pulse signal has not been confirmed, China's Maritime Search and Rescue Center reported, according to China Communications News, which is the Ministry of Transport's official newspaper.
The signal reported -- 37.5 kHz -- "is the standard beacon frequency" for the plane's cockpit voice recorder and the flight data recorder, said Anish Patel, president of pinger manufacturer Dukane Seacom.
"They're identical."
The frequency was chosen for use in the recorders "to give that standout quality that does not get interfered with by the background noise that readily occurs in the ocean."
But the pulse signal has not been confirmed, China's Maritime Search and Rescue Center reported, according to China Communications News, which is the Ministry of Transport's official newspaper.
The signal reported -- 37.5 kHz -- "is the standard beacon frequency" for the plane's cockpit voice recorder and the flight data recorder, said Anish Patel, president of pinger manufacturer Dukane Seacom.
"They're identical."
The frequency was chosen for use in the recorders "to give that standout quality that does not get interfered with by the background noise that readily occurs in the ocean."
Posted by: James Earl Jones at April 05, 2014 06:56 AM (e8kgV)
120
Posted by: American Dawg at April 05, 2014 10:49 AM (p6iIL)
It is not the job of the state to forgive but to enforce punishment for crimes.
A victim can forgive a perpetrator while at the same time the perpetrator pays for his/her crimes.
If we take it to the extreme, let's say a woman gets raped by a serial raper and she has a chance to have him convicted. But because she "forgives" him, she declines to prosecute and then the rapist goes on to rape someone else. Is that right?
She can forgive him and still go on to have him prosecuted. Those things aren't mutually exclusive.
Not to pick on you, but this reminds me of why I find pacifists... OK. I'll stop now.
Posted by: chique d'afrique (the artist formerly known as african chick) at April 05, 2014 06:57 AM (r+7wo)
121
What I don't get is that many of the same people who are against the death penalty are in favor of early release of people who have been sentenced to life in prison.
----------------------
They also favor restoring their voting privilege. Their problem is that that they are in denial regarding human nature. Most liberals do not even believe that there is such a thing as human nature.
Posted by: Mike Hammer at April 05, 2014 06:57 AM (aDwsi)
122
Posted by: phoenixgirl @phxazgrl at April 05, 2014 10:54 AM (u8GsB)
Get out of my brain!
Posted by: chique d'afrique (the artist formerly known as african chick) at April 05, 2014 06:58 AM (r+7wo)
123
113 NCJ the military could have prosecuted him no matter where the crime occurred as they have jurisdiction over the person wherever located
yep, article 2 of the ucmj iirc
easier to turn him over though do to the difficulty though
the latest defense is the last beating didn't kill her
it was all the previous beating which did
fucking animal....him and his wife need the chair, not the needle
Posted by: navycopjoe at April 05, 2014 06:59 AM (AtwlV)
124
Dana Loesch lays the SMACKDOWN on liberal guest
http://tinyurl.com/qewyepc
so fun to watch
Posted by: artisanal 'ette at April 05, 2014 06:59 AM (IXrOn)
125
someone whose life has some positive value for society,
Being executed for heinous murder, beyond a shadow of doubt, convicted by 12 citizens before the anniversary of the victims death IS a positive value for society.
Being executed for heinous murder, beyond a shadow of doubt, convicted by 12 citizens before the anniversary of the victims death IS a positive value for society.
Posted by: DaveA[/i][/b][/s] at April 05, 2014 06:59 AM (DL2i+)
126
While there is no question that some people need killin', I also echo the qualms expressed by earlier commenters about false accusations, ambitious prosecutors trying to make a name for themselves, or police covering up exculpatory evidence. All of these things can and do happen, and there are many troubling cases of people being imprisoned for decades before proof of their innocence was discovered.
My idea is this: Once an accused is found guilty in a jury trial, have a relative or close friend of the victim push the button or throw the switch to carry out the sentence. If nobody is willing to do that, then the sentence is commuted to life without parole. This helps overcome the objection that the state is executing citizens, and also saves money since the government doesn't have to employ executioners.
Posted by: rickl at April 05, 2014 07:00 AM (sdi6R)
127
Okay. So let's all pick and choose tidbits from the Bible, without any context, of course.
I think the Bible overall is pretty plain on the matter that justice has to be had here on earth. Without it we really would be no better than animals.
And sometimes that justice is harsh.
Posted by: Soona at April 05, 2014 07:01 AM (rQycF)
128
Get out of my brain!
Posted by: chique d'afrique (the artist formerly known as african chick) at April 05, 2014 10:58 AM (r+7wo)
Posted by: phoenixgirl @phxazgrl at April 05, 2014 07:02 AM (u8GsB)
129
Christians are no longer under the rule of the Mosaic law.
Posted by: American Dawg at April 05, 2014 10:55 AM (p6iIL)
No we aren't. But the vengeance is mine quote is from Deut. 32:35. My point is that the same Pentateuch that has "vengeance is mine" also institutes the death penalty for various crimes. Meaning that "vengeance is mine" does not mean no death penalty.
Posted by: chique d'afrique (the artist formerly known as african chick) at April 05, 2014 07:03 AM (r+7wo)
130
126 and also saves money since the government doesn't have to employ executioners
hell, i'll do one better
i'll not only supply the bullets but the gun and pull the trigger myself to clean out all the death rows
and I wouldn't lose any sleep doing it
Posted by: navycopjoe at April 05, 2014 07:03 AM (AtwlV)
131
is our judicial system is so awful
No, it's mistakes are amplified by self interested felons, their lawyers and a leftist media. There are always going to be errors but the alternative is ludicrous. How many guilty should remain among us committing crimes to avoid one actual innocent being prosecuted.
No, it's mistakes are amplified by self interested felons, their lawyers and a leftist media. There are always going to be errors but the alternative is ludicrous. How many guilty should remain among us committing crimes to avoid one actual innocent being prosecuted.
Posted by: DaveA[/i][/b][/s] at April 05, 2014 07:04 AM (DL2i+)
132
Part of the decline is due to the high profile work of the Innocence Project. They’ve gotten quite a few folks released from death row. I’m not convinced all of these people were “innocent” rather than the evidence, upon review, didn’t warrant conviction or key evidence was withheld from the jury, etc.
But these exonerations must play a part in the decline in death penalty support.
Posted by: CJ at April 05, 2014 07:05 AM (jbdp1)
133
meted out that penalty rather than the State.
A State that cannot absolutely stop the guilty from preying on its citizenry is just a parasite.
A State that cannot absolutely stop the guilty from preying on its citizenry is just a parasite.
Posted by: DaveA[/i][/b][/s] at April 05, 2014 07:05 AM (DL2i+)
134
interestingly, the same Bexar County coroner testified on behalf of George Zimmerman
Posted by: thunderb at April 05, 2014 07:05 AM (zOTsN)
135
hell, i'll do one better
i'll not only supply the bullets but the gun and pull the trigger myself to clean out all the death rows
and I wouldn't lose any sleep doing it
Posted by: navycopjoe at April 05, 2014 11:03 AM (AtwlV)
Passing concealed carry in Chicago is proving, at least at first glimpse, time will tell, that there may just be fewer prison inmates to even worry about...
Posted by: artisanal 'ette at April 05, 2014 07:06 AM (IXrOn)
136
@ chique d'afrique.
I deeply respect your opinion on the issue and for the record I'm no pacifist.
I'm for stronger and harsher penalty's for criminals.
For a person who was Raped they have to live with that for the rest of their life. So in my opinion the Rapist should also be locked up for life.
I'm just not for the death penalty anymore and as I stated above it's because of my Christianity , Government incompetence and crooked cops.
I deeply respect your opinion on the issue and for the record I'm no pacifist.
I'm for stronger and harsher penalty's for criminals.
For a person who was Raped they have to live with that for the rest of their life. So in my opinion the Rapist should also be locked up for life.
I'm just not for the death penalty anymore and as I stated above it's because of my Christianity , Government incompetence and crooked cops.
Posted by: American Dawg at April 05, 2014 07:06 AM (p6iIL)
137
to be in charge of who lives and dies in the criminal justice system?
its kind of a scary thing if you think about it...
No, it's paranoid nonsense. If a State or the Fed ever starts seriously murdering innocent Americans they'll be shot to pieces by the citizenry rather quickly.
its kind of a scary thing if you think about it...
No, it's paranoid nonsense. If a State or the Fed ever starts seriously murdering innocent Americans they'll be shot to pieces by the citizenry rather quickly.
Posted by: DaveA[/i][/b][/s] at April 05, 2014 07:09 AM (DL2i+)
138
Posted by: American Dawg at April 05, 2014 11:06 AM (p6iIL)
Thanks, I didn't think you were a pacifist.
I'm actually OK with people being against the death penalty (even though I disagree), as long as they're not the types that want to be "compassionate" towards criminals with no thought toward the victims.
What I think is depraved is being pro-abortion (not necessarily LIV pro-choice people who haven't given things much thought) and anti-death penalty.
I'm actually OK with people being against the death penalty (even though I disagree), as long as they're not the types that want to be "compassionate" towards criminals with no thought toward the victims.
What I think is depraved is being pro-abortion (not necessarily LIV pro-choice people who haven't given things much thought) and anti-death penalty.Posted by: chique d'afrique (the artist formerly known as african chick) at April 05, 2014 07:09 AM (r+7wo)
139
only six states have the death penalty for rape and in all of them it is for aggravated rape of a child, usually under 10, or for repeat offense of rape of a child under 10
Posted by: thunderb at April 05, 2014 07:10 AM (zOTsN)
140
How many pro-life, anti-death penalty people own guns, I wonder?
Really, just wondering. Because, what would they do with the gun if someone broke into their house and went for their baby (be it rape, or kidnapping)?
Posted by: artisanal 'ette at April 05, 2014 07:10 AM (IXrOn)
141
The State is corrupt and should not have the power of life and death over anyone.
Yes, but no. Any State which will not ultimately sanction one of its own IS not fulfilling one of its duties to the rest.
Yes, but no. Any State which will not ultimately sanction one of its own IS not fulfilling one of its duties to the rest.
Posted by: DaveA[/i][/b][/s] at April 05, 2014 07:11 AM (DL2i+)
142
What I think is depraved is being pro-abortion (not necessarily LIV pro-choice people who haven't given things much thought) and anti-death penalty.
Posted by: chique d'afrique (the artist formerly known as african chick) at April 05, 2014 11:09 AM (r+7wo)
A liberal mantra.
Posted by: artisanal 'ette at April 05, 2014 07:11 AM (IXrOn)
143
If your Pro Life can you be for the
death penalty also ?
How do you reason that ?
death penalty also ?
How do you reason that ?
Posted by: American Dawg at April 05, 2014 10:23 AM (p6iIL)
That question is posed from the liberal viewpoint, regarding the hypocracy of pro-lifers. Personally, I think the absolute depravity of the left's position on pro-abortion/anti-death penalty is pretty mentally ill and that's being charitable.
I have always looked at this question in opposite order: if you are pro-death penalty, can you be pro-life? Yes, because both value all innocent life. I do not view a murderer the same as an unborn baby. The perpetrators of murder/abortion are the same: murderers. Both deserve punishment and both will/should receive it.
In this world, justice for the innocents who have been murdered, in the next world, justice for the innocent babies who have been murdered. Same thing with different time frames, but it's all about Justice.
Posted by: joanne at April 05, 2014 07:11 AM (s/quq)
144
@ chique d'afrique
I agree and Grammie Winger said it best at the top of this thread .
(paraphrase) I would gladly give up the death penalty if it means saving millions of children from abortion.
I agree and Grammie Winger said it best at the top of this thread .
(paraphrase) I would gladly give up the death penalty if it means saving millions of children from abortion.
Posted by: American Dawg at April 05, 2014 07:13 AM (p6iIL)
145
of course, the Innocence Project Texas is trying to get rid of all the shaken baby convictions
so theres that
Posted by: thunderb at April 05, 2014 07:14 AM (zOTsN)
146
No, it's paranoid nonsense. If a State or the Fed ever starts seriously murdering innocent Americans they'll be shot to pieces by the citizenry rather quickly.
----------
In some states, yes. In others, not so much.
Posted by: Soona at April 05, 2014 07:16 AM (rQycF)
147
»»Death penalty opponents love to point out that it costs more, in terms of appeals, etc, to execute a person than it costs to incarcerate them for life. - PabloD
The two most important aspects of Justice are lost in our system, generally:
1. Swiftness
2. Sureness
If you KNOW Dad's going to whip the tar out of you if you ever do that again, because it still stings from the last time... when you SAW that horse thief tried, convicted, and executed on the spot when caught red-handed... there is some slight deterrent effect on some folks!
Posted by: mindful webworker in Beatle wig at April 05, 2014 07:16 AM (zdOaO)
148
amazing
tears me up
Thousands Of Chinese Christians Form Round The Clock Human Shield To Protect Their Church From Demolition By Communist Party
http://tinyurl.com/lnujjhr
Thousands of Chinese Christians have mounted an extraordinary, round-the-clock defence of a church in a city known as the ‘Jerusalem of the East’ after Communist Party officials threatened to bulldoze their place of worship.
it's everywhere
Posted by: artisanal 'ette at April 05, 2014 07:16 AM (IXrOn)
149
I agree and Grammie Winger said it best at the top of this thread .
(paraphrase) I would gladly give up the death penalty if it means saving millions of children from abortion.
Posted by: American Dawg at April 05, 2014 11:13 AM (p6iIL)
So would I.
I look at my nephew who now lives with me - a wonderful teenager whom we all love very dearly and is such a bright light and joy in our family - and think that those rabid animals would say he should have been aborted because he wasn't born under perfect circumstances. Savages.
Posted by: chique d'afrique (the artist formerly known as african chick) at April 05, 2014 07:17 AM (r+7wo)
150
I would gladly take one off the table so as to make the argument for the
other that much more clear. I would rather a hundred criminals live
if it meant millions of babies did as well.
No, the question is wrong and the asker is not interested in a compromise or debate.
No, the question is wrong and the asker is not interested in a compromise or debate.
Posted by: DaveA[/i][/b][/s] at April 05, 2014 07:18 AM (DL2i+)
151
@ artisanal 'ette.
I'm Pro- Life , Pro- Gun , and against the death penalty . I would use that Gun to protect my friends and family.
I'm Pro- Life , Pro- Gun , and against the death penalty . I would use that Gun to protect my friends and family.
Posted by: American Dawg at April 05, 2014 07:18 AM (p6iIL)
152
»» "...be afraid, for rulers do not bear the sword for no reason. They are God’s servants, agents of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer."
Posted by: chique d'afrique
Yeah, what that guy said, too! 
Posted by: mindful webworker in bald wig at April 05, 2014 07:19 AM (zdOaO)
153
If your Pro Life can you be for the
death penalty also ?
How do you reason that ?Posted by: American Dawg at April 05, 2014 10:23 AM (p6iIL)
If you are in favor of freedom then how can you be in favor of prison?
death penalty also ?
How do you reason that ?Posted by: American Dawg at April 05, 2014 10:23 AM (p6iIL)
If you are in favor of freedom then how can you be in favor of prison?
Posted by: Bertram Cabot Jr. at April 05, 2014 07:19 AM (4tAp3)
154
If we, as a nation, execute someone it should be as humane as possible. While I might enjoy the thought of a child killer suffering as he/she dies, I believe the state should execute as quickly and painless as possible.
The chair, hanging, shooting, and the needle, all can go horribly wrong. Using an Inert Gas such as Nitrogen or Argon is very quick and painless. There have been many cases of workers who have died quickly and suddenly from these and other gases.
Posted by: ExSnipe at April 05, 2014 07:19 AM (hzpoi)
155
CIA Official Dies in Apparent Suicide
Death did not take place at CIA headquarters
drudge/freebeacon
I guess this was breaking last night.
Posted by: artisanal 'ette at April 05, 2014 07:19 AM (IXrOn)
156
@144
Like you, AmerucanDawg, I am for swifter, tougher sentencing.
My pt about Vick upthread was misunderstood. I think depraved acts like his deserve tougher sentencing b/c they are preludes to worse behavior.
Posted by: Y-not at April 05, 2014 07:21 AM (zDsvJ)
157
Of course, I would not accept the compromise because we all know that as soon as we agree to end the death penalty, they'll say whoops, sorry, got to keep on killing the babies. For the children.
Posted by: Chique at April 05, 2014 07:21 AM (r+7wo)
158
I find the argument that the state should not have the power to take life. OK. Do states have the power to go to war? Of course they do. And war means death.
The death penalty makes people feel bad. It should feel bad.
Posted by: thunderb at April 05, 2014 07:21 AM (zOTsN)
159
And quite honestly, I wouldn't trust this government with a sharp knife, let alone the power of life and death.
Posted by: Bevel Lemelisk at April 05, 2014 10:30 AM (TAP/5)
So police should not have guns.
Posted by: Jen at April 05, 2014 07:21 AM (IdGqX)
160
151 I'm Pro- Life , Pro- Gun , and against the death penalty
i'm pro choice, pro gun and pro death penalty
and would use the gun to protect anyone anywhere
Posted by: navycopjoe at April 05, 2014 07:21 AM (AtwlV)
161
I know. Let's ask how many pro-life, anti-death penalty gun owners think the world is 6000 years old. We're stacking categories pretty damn deep here.
And how many of them could dance on the head of a pin? Forgot that one.
And how many of them could dance on the head of a pin? Forgot that one.
Posted by: Stringer Davis at April 05, 2014 07:22 AM (xq1UY)
163
159 Jen,
If the Dorner escapades are any indication?
No.
Posted by: sven10077 at April 05, 2014 07:23 AM (TE35l)
164
Jesus declined to enforce the accepted written penalty as codified in Jewish law. (The woman taken in the act of adultery)
The penalty did not fit the crime. Jesus also couldn't find one innocent of that crime to throw the 1st stone let alone a jury of her peers.
The penalty did not fit the crime. Jesus also couldn't find one innocent of that crime to throw the 1st stone let alone a jury of her peers.
Posted by: DaveA[/i][/b][/s] at April 05, 2014 07:23 AM (DL2i+)
165
Posted by: ExSnipe at April 05, 2014 11:19 AM (hzpoi)
Nah. I'm not for torturing death people on death row. But I don't think they have to be coddled into death either. I am very fine with hanging, shooting, or the electric chair.
Posted by: Chique at April 05, 2014 07:24 AM (r+7wo)
166
154 The chair, hanging, shooting, and the needle, all can go horribly wrong
if the job gets done then how is it wrong?
although I support the old way of if the perp survives the procedure then they should be let go
Posted by: navycopjoe at April 05, 2014 07:24 AM (AtwlV)
167
Ive gotta run and thanks to all who expanded on my original question . It was very enlightening .
On a different topic for those mothers who ever told their children you can't have cake for Breakfast -
you would be wrong. Time to Eat !
On a different topic for those mothers who ever told their children you can't have cake for Breakfast -
you would be wrong. Time to Eat !
Posted by: American Dawg at April 05, 2014 07:25 AM (p6iIL)
168
War = against non-citizens
Posted by: Y-not
not really
but lets not bring up the civil war
Posted by: thunderb at April 05, 2014 07:25 AM (zOTsN)
169
154 If we, as a nation, execute someone it should be as humane as possible. While I might enjoy the thought of a child killer suffering as he/she dies, I believe the state should execute as quickly and painless as possible.
The chair, hanging, shooting, and the needle, all can go horribly wrong. Using an Inert Gas such as Nitrogen or Argon is very quick and painless. There have been many cases of workers who have died quickly and suddenly from these and other gases.
Posted by: ExSnipe at April 05, 2014 11:19 AM (hzpoi)
----------------
True justice would be executing these pieces of shit with the same methods they used to kill their victims. These mutherfuckers are getting off easy as far as I'm concerned.
Posted by: Soona at April 05, 2014 07:26 AM (rQycF)
170
some people cannot be "rehabilitated"
most death penalty criminals fall into that category
--------------------------------------
Yup...They fall into that category sooner or later
Posted by: alwyr at April 05, 2014 07:26 AM (V0j3u)
171
i really hate the term pro choice, when the other half of the issue has none.
Posted by: willow at April 05, 2014 07:27 AM (nqBYe)
172
168 but lets not bring up the civil war
the war of southern comeuppance?
Posted by: navycopjoe at April 05, 2014 07:27 AM (AtwlV)
174
149 Chiqued'Afrique
that's never the bargain though is it?
Further, I support the death penalty because there are crimes by which you render your only possible service to mankind as being a cautionary example to remind folks that being a human takes work and carries duties.
The "rapey rape rapeculture" bullshit pisses me off b/c it trivializes one of the crimes I see as mortal.
Posted by: sven10077 at April 05, 2014 07:27 AM (TE35l)
175
Some people most definitely have no place on this planet. However, I do not have enough faith in the judicial system to give it the power over life and death.
Posted by: ElKomandante at April 05, 2014 07:27 AM (Gmkx8)
176
The State is corrupt and should not have the power of life and death over anyone.
The State doesn't have the power, the people do. There's this process called a trial, which includes a specific body of people listening to facts admitted into evidence. They are called a jury. It is the obligation of the State to prove the crime with the jury acting as an objective body. If convicted by said jury, the accused still has another process available to him or her, and it's called an appeal. The appeal process differs according to each state law, so that process can be lengthy.
I would venture to say that these processes, also called due process under the law, are fair. However, I believe if the people are corrupt, the State can provide no justice. Eg. O.J. Simpson.
Posted by: joanne at April 05, 2014 07:28 AM (s/quq)
177
Keep in mind that Pew is a Democrat poll outfit.
Posted by: Vic[/i] at April 05, 2014 07:28 AM (T2V/1)
178
The penalty did not fit the crime. Jesus also couldn't find one innocent of that crime to throw the 1st stone let alone a jury of her peers.
The penalty was the one prescribed by the law. Jesus was indeed innocent of that crime. He indeed was qualified to judge. He indeed was fully worthy of dispensing the punishment. He did not.
I don't claim to have the one true answer. I am just a poor struggler, trying to discern what is the right thing as a follower of Jesus. I don't know what the right thing is at this point. I go back and forth and see good arguments on both sides.
Posted by: grammie winger at April 05, 2014 07:30 AM (oMKp3)
179
121 Mike Hammer,
They take the relatively housebroken Western Civ human as baseline Mike...
Never understanding we were housebroken by faith and punishment.
Posted by: sven10077 at April 05, 2014 07:31 AM (TE35l)
180
morning chuckle
Californians Upset Over Lack Of Doctors Under Obamacare
freebeacon
*world's smallest violin
Posted by: artisanal 'ette at April 05, 2014 07:31 AM (IXrOn)
181
178 grammie winger,
If Jesus was against the death penalty a LOT of Popes got it wrong for a lot of years.
Posted by: sven10077 at April 05, 2014 07:33 AM (TE35l)
182
I go back and forth on the death penalty. I am closer to Y-not's view. Of course there are people who merit it. Of course. But I too do not want the power of life and death to reside in the State. The State is corrupt and should not have the power of life and death over anyone.
Posted by: grammie winger at April 05, 2014 10:00 AM (oMKp3)
----------------------------------
grammie (and Y-Not) If there are "people who merit it" as you say, then who BUT the State should carry out the (death) sentence?
Posted by: alwyr at April 05, 2014 07:33 AM (V0j3u)
183
For some of the monsters I favor feeding them (alive) to the hogs.
Posted by: Angel with a sword at April 05, 2014 07:33 AM (hpgw1)
184
what I love about this place is we can have passionate serious disagreements about things like this, and no one resorts to calling anyone a racist or otherizes them. So very rare today. A little haven for liberty in discourse
Posted by: thunderb at April 05, 2014 07:33 AM (zOTsN)
185
182 alwyr,
Ideally "the people"....
Frankly I support a return to community justice.
Posted by: sven10077 at April 05, 2014 07:34 AM (TE35l)
186
Grammie winger, I believe Paul wrote Rom 13:4 during the reign of Nero, who wasn't exactly the fairest of rulers, to put it very mildly.
Posted by: Chique at April 05, 2014 07:35 AM (r+7wo)
188
the Innocence Project in several states all over shaken baby syndrome
I guess they gave themselves those bloody whites to their eyes, the detached retinas, and the separation of the brain from the supporting membrane. And the brain damage
Posted by: thunderb at April 05, 2014 07:36 AM (zOTsN)
189
Posted by: thunderb at April 05, 2014 11:33 AM (zOTsN)
Racist, bigot, homophobe, cissexist!
Posted by: Chique at April 05, 2014 07:37 AM (r+7wo)
190
I'm Pro- Life , Pro- Gun , and against the death penalty . I would use that Gun to protect my friends and family.
Posted by: American Dawg at April 05, 2014 11:18 AM (p6iIL)
With you. My anti-DP views have been shaped by the mess of Illinois and incompetence in investigations, etc. It is way past time to rethink prosecutorial immunity. The lynch mobs (whether persecuting thoughts or alleged deeds) have become nuclear. Think of Nancy Grace and other prosecutors and judges playing with the rules -- the ends do not justify the means.
Posted by: Mustbequantum at April 05, 2014 07:37 AM (MIKMs)
191
Yeah, if you murder somebody then we should have the right to murder you back.
Posted by: Costanza Defense at April 05, 2014 07:38 AM (ZPrif)
192
188 thunderb,
Yeah...I'm not sure why shaken baby is a crime right?
It's just post-natal DIY abortion attempts....
//must I?
Posted by: sven10077 at April 05, 2014 07:38 AM (TE35l)
193
»» 110 93 Innocents (at least of the crimes for which they were killed) have been executed. Many times, surely.
»» never been proven - navycopjoe
Meh. I take it as a given that anything humans touch is often fallible despite our best efforts, sometimes corrupt due to our worst. Was meant only in saying, that's still not an argument against the death penalty, any mote than any other part of our efforts at justice.
Posted by: mindful webworker wigged out at April 05, 2014 07:39 AM (MwpNJ)
194
by: artisanal 'ette
I'm still expecting an EO order from the President to demand Docs give free service to everyone, Than another EO for those still left that are paying by themselves for their own housing and food to be dunned to pay for for the Feds needed to supervise those Docs actions.
Posted by: willow at April 05, 2014 07:39 AM (nqBYe)
195
And it's nonsense to equate pro-life and anti-death penalty. Protecting innocent babies is entirely different from protecting vile murderers, rapists, and child molesters.
I'm pro-life and pro-death penalty. There's nothing morally inconsistent about that. It's in fact perfectly consistent. One way you protect the innocent is by killing evil, murderous scum.
Posted by: Costanza Defense at April 05, 2014 07:40 AM (ZPrif)
196
180
morning chuckle
Californians Upset Over Lack Of Doctors Under Obamacare
freebeacon
*world's smallest violin
Posted by: artisanal 'ette at April 05, 2014 11:31 AM (IXrOn)
-----------------
Here in OK we're seeing advertisements for businesses to please please come to NY. They're even offering ten years tax free.
Stupid fucks.
Posted by: Soona at April 05, 2014 07:41 AM (rQycF)
197
It's not quite the same, though I'm sure felt like it to the men involved, but two of the four men sent to prison by Whitey Bulger/Paul Rico, etc. died in there. The other two spent the better part of their lives in there, then received millions of dollars in compensation.
Posted by: Lincolntf at April 05, 2014 07:42 AM (ZshNr)
198
193 mindful webworker wigged out,
Getting killed in error by the system is a civic service imho.
Essentially execution is how society sets the ultimate boundaries.
Why is no other phase of justice or governance held to the "must be perfect or else" standard?
Case in point the clownfuckery of the tax court ruling undoing 20 years of IRA accounting precedence yesterday?
Posted by: sven10077 at April 05, 2014 07:42 AM (TE35l)
200
Nah. I'm not for torturing death people on death row. But I don't think they have to be coddled into death either. I am very fine with hanging, shooting, or the electric chair.
Posted by: Chique at April 05, 2014 11:24 AM (r+7wo)
Didn't write they should be coddled into death. It should be quick and painless. That's one of the major arguments against the DP, that it's not.
Posted by: ExSnipe at April 05, 2014 07:46 AM (hzpoi)
201
you know, michelle malkin is pretty hot when she's pissed off
Posted by: navycopjoe at April 05, 2014 07:48 AM (AtwlV)
202
although I support the old way of if the perp survives the procedure then they should be let go
Posted by: navycopjoe at April 05, 2014 11:24 AM (AtwlV)
That is absurd, and hopefully sarcastic.
Posted by: ExSnipe at April 05, 2014 07:49 AM (hzpoi)
204
200 ExSnipe,
All death is painful Champ...
You're done after it.
Maybe they'll calm down in their opposition if we hire porn technicians to fuck them to death?
Wait no that's actually a coronary so no dice.
Posted by: sven10077 at April 05, 2014 07:49 AM (TE35l)
205
quick and painless? The needle is fine. If its good enough for the dogs we love and who were nothing but loyal and a source of joy, then its good enough for these psychopaths. It might even be too good for them
Posted by: thunderb at April 05, 2014 07:50 AM (zOTsN)
206
if the witch is guilty she will drown, if not she will live?
Posted by: willow at April 05, 2014 07:50 AM (nqBYe)
207
203 willow,
Evidently she's hot a LOT then...
Posted by: sven10077 at April 05, 2014 07:50 AM (TE35l)
208
Ramirez's image for the 3 fallen at Fort Hood is poignant. To say the least.
http://news.investors.com/ibdeditorials.aspx
Respectful.
Posted by: artisanal 'ette at April 05, 2014 07:50 AM (IXrOn)
209
In Mozilla Case, The Left's Intolerance Is Out Of The Closet
best title I've seen on this topic so far
ibd
Posted by: artisanal 'ette at April 05, 2014 07:53 AM (IXrOn)
210
"my belief in the sanctity of human life"
That's exactly what makes my believe in the death penalty stronger, not weaker. When a person takes another person's life, the penalty deserves to be greater than the penalty for robbing banks or stealing cars. Murder is an entirely different crime and the punishment should be treated entirely differently. If the sentence for robbing several banks is life in prison and the penalty for murder is life in prison, then we as a society are saying that robbing banks is as bad as murder. And because of my belief in the sanctity of life I do not believe that. And don't try to talk me out of sending serial bank robbers to prison for life.
That's exactly what makes my believe in the death penalty stronger, not weaker. When a person takes another person's life, the penalty deserves to be greater than the penalty for robbing banks or stealing cars. Murder is an entirely different crime and the punishment should be treated entirely differently. If the sentence for robbing several banks is life in prison and the penalty for murder is life in prison, then we as a society are saying that robbing banks is as bad as murder. And because of my belief in the sanctity of life I do not believe that. And don't try to talk me out of sending serial bank robbers to prison for life.
Posted by: Dang at April 05, 2014 07:54 AM (MNq6o)
211
208 artisanal 'ette,
Yup...
It galls me they died b/c of a temper tantrum
Posted by: sven10077 at April 05, 2014 07:54 AM (TE35l)
212
159 Jen,
If the Dorner escapades are any indication?
No.
Posted by: sven10077 at April 05, 2014 11:23 AM (TE35l)
I have no interest whatsover in having our police force become English Bobbies, who regularly get the hell beat out of them by criminals because they carry no weapons greater than a tazer and who are trying to deal with an increasing gun crime rate in England.
The Dorner situation does point out that as humans, no one is infallible. And the Dorner shooting was an anomaly. Police shootings of criminals have saved lives and the shootings of innocents happens far less often than the shootings of criminals.
So much so that the the two women shot by police received a settlement of $4.2 million from the dept.
Maybe the MP who stopped Lopez at Ft.Hood last week shouldn't have been armed. (Yes, I know he shot himself, but had he not.....maybe they could have simply thrown water balloons at him, lest they shoot someone innocent).
Maybe the Border Patrol shouldn't be armed when stopping drug cartels from muleing back and forth across ranches in AZ, wait, I think that is the case.
Works well too. Gee, I want to be a Border Patrol agent because I have to stand and be hit with rocks from illegals or I am told to run away from the rocks.
http://tinyurl.com/n4yhean
Posted by: Jen at April 05, 2014 07:55 AM (IdGqX)
213
UK police cant have guns but they can now have tasers. They now lead the world with Taser incidents. Thousands of them. heh
Posted by: thunderb at April 05, 2014 07:57 AM (zOTsN)
214
All death is painful Champ...
Posted by: sven10077 at April 05, 2014 11:49 AM (TE35l)
No it's not. A worker at the power plant I used to work at was welding in a pit. There was an Argon gas leak from his equipment (or maybe it was from the unburned Argon, don't remember). One moment he was awake and welding, then he collapsed. Dead as a door nail. He had no idea what was happening.
Posted by: ExSnipe at April 05, 2014 07:58 AM (hzpoi)
215
85 American Dawg at April 05, 2014 10:37 AM (p6iIL)
Again... awful lot of Popes and Divine Right Kings got it wrong then.
I so appreciate that I am to be forced to hide my Christianity from the public square WRT to the left unless they want to falsely invoke an interpretation thereof that gained popularity in the last 200 years to try to shame me to their policy preference.
We do not exile which was common in the time of Christ, we do not deny fire and water which was common in the time of Christ....
There are some things that merit removal from the human race, Murder with malice, Rape, and I would say even some frauds....
Posted by: sven10077 at April 05, 2014 07:58 AM (TE35l)
216
My anti-DP views have been shaped by the
mess of Illinois and incompetence in investigations, etc. It is way
past time to rethink prosecutorial immunity. The lynch mobs (whether
persecuting thoughts or alleged deeds) have become nuclear. Think of
Nancy Grace and other prosecutors and judges playing with the rules --
the ends do not justify the means.
Posted by: Mustbequantum at April 05, 2014 11:37 AM (MIKMs)
Kind of where I am really. I don't trust the legal system any farther than I can throw a cheese cake under water.
Posted by: Berserker-Dragonheads Division at April 05, 2014 07:59 AM (FMbng)
217
214 ExSnipe at April 05, 2014 11:58 AM (hzpoi)
Oh my mistake....
so we are going to randomly inert gas these people and they will not have any dread of the magic minute?
My bad....
Posted by: sven10077 at April 05, 2014 07:59 AM (TE35l)
218
184 what I love about this place is we can have passionate serious disagreements about things like this, and no one resorts to calling anyone a racist or otherizes them. So very rare today. A little haven for liberty in discourse
Posted by: thunderb at April 05, 2014 11:33 AM (zOTsN)
FUCK YOU!!!1!!!!
Posted by: Progressive Pug at April 05, 2014 07:59 AM (vFh9Q)
219
212 Jen at April 05, 2014 11:55 AM (IdGqX)
Jen it's me...
that was part sarcasm, of course "part" fact is the Dorner "shoot anything that moves" escapades speak more to why the entire psychology of LE tactics in this nation need looked at.
The cops are way too militarized and they have convinced themselves they are a species separate from the public not commissioned members of the public.
The COPs should not look, nor act like they are in downtown Fallujah.
Posted by: sven10077 at April 05, 2014 08:02 AM (TE35l)
220
workout time, or I'll never get to it.
for another health/diet article, instapundit had an interesting one
http://www.nextavenue.org/article/2012-05/fiftysomething-diet
be good little morons/'ettes.
Posted by: artisanal 'ette at April 05, 2014 08:02 AM (IXrOn)
221
Every system created and run by human beings will produce errors.
Failing to do the right thing because you might make a mistake is a sure sign of mental haziness and wobbly knees.
Posted by: eman at April 05, 2014 08:03 AM (AO9UG)
222
A note about Utah's firing squads. Firing squads are used not because of any particular bloodthirstiness among Utahans. It is an optional method of execution because Mormon belief states that a murderer cannot atone for his sins and thereby be "saved" without the spilling of his blood.
Source: the internet
Posted by: hosni M at April 05, 2014 08:04 AM (LL7mI)
223
In Mozilla Case, The Left's Intolerance Is Out Of The Closet
best title I've seen on this topic so far
ibd
------------------
Right now, I am using Opera. It clearly is going to take some adjustment. It is very tempting to go back to Firefox, but that is the problem. If we do things only out convenience, rather than principle, then we are truly lost. Remember, it is only necessary that good people should do nothing.
I also sent a note to Mozzila pointing out their incredible hypocrisy, and added the fact that our three computers were dropping their browser.
I'm afraid Godwin's Law crept into the note, as I suggested that they probably regret not being able to ship Brendan Eich to a concentration camp.
Posted by: Mike Hammer at April 05, 2014 08:04 AM (aDwsi)
224
What I don't get is that many of the same people who are against the death penalty are in favor of early release of people who have been sentenced to life in prison.
This is one of the biggest reasons I hate Fuckabee with the heat of a thousand suns. It never seemed to occur to that retard that a criminal might lie about finding Jesus in order to get an early release. And four cops in another state paid for that with their lives.
What I don't get is that many of the same people who are against the death penalty are in favor of early release of people who have been sentenced to life in prison.
This is one of the biggest reasons I hate Fuckabee with the heat of a thousand suns. It never seemed to occur to that retard that a criminal might lie about finding Jesus in order to get an early release. And four cops in another state paid for that with their lives.
Posted by: IllTemperedCur at April 05, 2014 08:04 AM (c2oll)
225
I'm fine with hanging, a tried and true method. It's hard to improve on the classics.
I also like ExSnipe's idea of using nitrogen in a gas chamber. That would be pretty quick and painless. Nitrogen is cheap and plentiful, and it's also not a poison, so there is no danger to people handling it. Most of the air we breathe is nitrogen. It isn't the nitrogen that kills you; it's the lack of oxygen.
There is no reason to use electric chairs, though. They were basically a fad when electricity was a newfangled thing. Electrocution as a means of execution came about in part because Edison was trying to prove that Westinghouse's AC was more dangerous than the DC that Edison favored.
I don't object to lethal injection, except that it's a little too "humane" for dealing with real monsters. Hanging is better for them.
Posted by: rickl at April 05, 2014 08:05 AM (sdi6R)
226
So very rare today. A little haven for liberty in discourse
-------------
H8ter!
Posted by: Mike Hammer at April 05, 2014 08:06 AM (aDwsi)
227
The COPs should not look, nor act like they are in downtown Fallujah.
Posted by: sven10077 at April 05, 2014 12:02 PM (TE35l)
Sven, I'm with you on that one.
Posted by: Jen at April 05, 2014 08:07 AM (IdGqX)
228
H8ter!
Posted by: Mike Hammer
-----------
Eh. I'm not very good at this stuff.
I think that should be 'H8er', or something...
Posted by: Mike Hammer at April 05, 2014 08:08 AM (aDwsi)
229
I'm sure this has already been said, but for me the sanctity of life is one of the reasons TO have a death penalty. Willingly take a life, and you should pay. Now I believe it should only be extreme cases. Jeffrey Dahmer, say. The Oklahoma City bomber. I believe suicide is a great sin, but I'm kind of glad that guy here in Cleveland that kidnapped those girls took the easy way out, even though he hadn't done murder.
Posted by: Barb the Evil Genius at April 05, 2014 08:08 AM (yE8uc)
230
Nothing wrong with firing squads. It would be the way I would prefer to go -- standing and no blindfold.
Posted by: Progressive Pug at April 05, 2014 08:10 AM (vFh9Q)
231
Also trying to use Christian faith to subvert the death penalty is charming.
Believe as you will but understand that Moses set out five death penalty offenses after he handed down the VIth Commandment.
“If you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword for nothing. For he is the servant of God, an avenger who carries out God’s wrath on the wrongdoer" (Romans 13:4
I guess he bears that sword to shave folks?
There are things you can do that put you outside the human race.
The Nazis and Communists deserved death as did Pol Pot and Mao Tse Tung.
You kill enough folks or one folk in the right way you deserve to be removed.
Posted by: sven10077 at April 05, 2014 08:12 AM (TE35l)
232
The Electric chair fries your brain circuitry in milliseconds. There is no pain. Some time more is needed to stop the heart but the person is already brain dead. Bzzzziiiittt!
Posted by: Progressive Pug at April 05, 2014 08:13 AM (vFh9Q)
233
214 ExSnipe at April 05, 2014 11:58 AM (hzpoi)
Oh my mistake....
so we are going to randomly inert gas these people and they will not have any dread of the magic minute?
My bad....
Posted by: sven10077 at April 05, 2014 11:59 AM (TE35l)
I have no idea what that is supposed to mean.
Posted by: ExSnipe at April 05, 2014 08:13 AM (hzpoi)
234
229 Barb the Evil Genius at April 05, 2014 12:08 PM (yE8uc)
Correct, murder corrodes the land and the civil body.
Genesis 9:5-6:
5] “For your lifeblood I will require a reckoning…from his fellow man I will require a reckoning for the life of man.
6] Whoever sheds the blood of man,
By man shall his blood be shed,
For God made man in his own image.”
Life *is* valuable, the reason I am irritated at Mozilla is part of this corrosion.
You don't destroy people at their career fields lightly and you never do it in hypocrisy.
You don't murder people, you are not a little godling walking the Earth who cannot suffer the word "no" lest you kill 3 and wound 19....
You don't do these things b/c sooner or later society will then kill you or it did.
Posted by: sven10077 at April 05, 2014 08:15 AM (TE35l)
235
231 Also trying to use Christian faith to subvert the death penalty is charming.
I wouldn't call it charming. I just struggle with the question, that's all.
Posted by: grammie winger at April 05, 2014 08:16 AM (oMKp3)
236
The Electric chair fries your brain circuitry in milliseconds. There is no pain. Some time more is needed to stop the heart but the person is already brain dead. Bzzzziiiittt!
---------------
I've been saying this for years!
Posted by: Old Sparky at April 05, 2014 08:16 AM (aDwsi)
237
Nothing wrong with firing squads. It would be the way I would prefer to go -- standing and no blindfold.
I've made the argument here before that executions for treason must be by hanging, not firing squad. The method matters.
Hanging is sordid and disreputable. A firing squad has an air of honor about it; shaking hands with the riflemen before standing against the wall, the last cigarette, refusing the blindfold, and the Breaker Morant thing of "shoot straight you bastards, don't make a mess of it!"
Nothing wrong with firing squads. It would be the way I would prefer to go -- standing and no blindfold.
Posted by: Progressive Pug at April 05, 2014 12:10 PM (vFh9Q)
I've made the argument here before that executions for treason must be by hanging, not firing squad. The method matters.
Hanging is sordid and disreputable. A firing squad has an air of honor about it; shaking hands with the riflemen before standing against the wall, the last cigarette, refusing the blindfold, and the Breaker Morant thing of "shoot straight you bastards, don't make a mess of it!"
Posted by: IllTemperedCur at April 05, 2014 08:16 AM (c2oll)
238
Yeah, the term "pro-choice" is bullshit. If you support the option of legal abortion, you support abortion. Period. You are pro-abortion. You think that abortion serves a purpose in society and should be legally allowed.
Don't hide behind happy words.
Posted by: Lauren at April 05, 2014 08:18 AM (hFL/3)
239
233 ExSnipe at April 05, 2014 12:13 PM (hzpoi)
Right because it is cryptic and convoluted.
I'm rather aware of death Snipe...I have spent MANY an ONT going over the various ways one can die, the practical impact on human physiology etc etc.
The dread of the event is in fact not pleasant.
It has physiological impact.
Your friend who was killed in an industrial accident was taken in an instant unknowing.
Hell when I was a lad we had a guy cooked to death at Wright-Patt b/c the radar he was working on and had been locked into a non-powered position was idiotically switched on by a retarded tech who did not check to see if the work field was clear.
That guy was fried in probably a hundredth of a second.
Yeah you can go mighty quick...death row ain't. It is why I find the whole "oh we have to kill them as ABSOLUTELY nicely and without pain as we can" bit a mighty humorous thing.
Unless you randomly kill the fuckers or do it in their sleep or play the Japanese version of the game where you don't know the date and bam you're done....
the wait itself is painful cruelty.
Posted by: sven10077 at April 05, 2014 08:19 AM (TE35l)
240
If you had a red button on your console and were told that you could terminate all libs by pushing it, what would you do?
Posted by: Velvet Ambition at April 05, 2014 08:20 AM (R8hU8)
241
The last man to be executed in California was already serving life in prison without possibility of parole when the murder for which he got the death penalty was committed.
Sometimes, the only way to protect people is to kill the bastard.
Posted by: The Political Hat at April 05, 2014 08:21 AM (AymDN)
242
235 grammie winger at April 05, 2014 12:16 PM (oMKp3)
Neither you nor any of the folk in this thread are the leftists I was ruminating on.
Apologies.
I respect crises of faith...hell I recanted and renounced for a long period myself once upon a time.
I don't doubt the sincerity of anyone who is a regular here in the horde.
I was opining inelegantly on the idiots who call us Teahadists and act as though we're theocrats who dust off the Bible when it suits their desires.
You know I love you ma'am.
Posted by: sven10077 at April 05, 2014 08:22 AM (TE35l)
243
Blue Moon browser ampersand test...
Life & Death
BTW, the Blue Moon installation and using the suggested app to transfer over all of my Mozilla bookmarks etc. was completely successful including carrying over my current "History" list up-to-date from this morning's browsing.
Life & Death
BTW, the Blue Moon installation and using the suggested app to transfer over all of my Mozilla bookmarks etc. was completely successful including carrying over my current "History" list up-to-date from this morning's browsing.
Posted by: [/i]andycanuck[/b] at April 05, 2014 08:22 AM (hn5v5)
244
240 Velvet Ambition at April 05, 2014 12:20 PM (R8hU
Now or six years ago?
The answer is different b/c I merely suspected how out of control the left would get in 08....
I know now.
Now or six years ago?
The answer is different b/c I merely suspected how out of control the left would get in 08....
I know now.Posted by: sven10077 at April 05, 2014 08:23 AM (TE35l)
245
the wait itself is painful cruelty.
And all the time needed for redemption followed by atonement.
And all the time needed for redemption followed by atonement.
Posted by: DaveA[/i][/b][/s] at April 05, 2014 08:23 AM (DL2i+)
246
If you had a red button on your console and were told that you could terminate all libs by pushing it, what would you do?
Posted by: Velvet
-----------
No.
And that is the difference between them and us.
Posted by: Old Sparky at April 05, 2014 08:23 AM (aDwsi)
247
Posted by: sven10077 at April 05, 2014 12:22 PM (TE35l)
I know that. I love you back.
Posted by: grammie winger at April 05, 2014 08:23 AM (oMKp3)
248
andycanuck - Interesting. I'm only using Opera because it was suggested. Haven't tried ampersands yet.. &&&
Posted by: Old Sparky at April 05, 2014 08:25 AM (aDwsi)
250
245 the wait itself is painful cruelty.
And all the time needed for redemption followed by atonement.
Posted by: DaveA at April 05, 2014 12:23 PM (DL2i+)
That's interesting that you should say that. I had a similar discussion with my son a while back. I said that the death penalty cut off the opportunity for time to repent and turn to God for salvation. My son said that on the contrary, it provided a laser like focus on that very occurrence.
Posted by: grammie winger at April 05, 2014 08:26 AM (oMKp3)
252
Are you using an Apple product, Old Sparky? I think those people have their ampersands even without having a Platinum Membership.
Posted by: [/i]andycanuck[/b] at April 05, 2014 08:27 AM (hn5v5)
253
We are now in the 'Browser Test' segment of the thread.
Posted by: Mike Hammer at April 05, 2014 08:27 AM (aDwsi)
254
andy - Sparky was a sock. Using Vista & Opera browser
Posted by: Mike Hammer at April 05, 2014 08:28 AM (aDwsi)
256
And, yes, the 8 ) turning into sunglasses smiley and no ampersands is still active for Pale Moon users just as for Firefox. Oh, cool. And the spellchecker is still intact too as my typo of "jsut" just showed me.
Posted by: [/i]andycanuck[/b] at April 05, 2014 08:29 AM (hn5v5)
257
The death penalty shouldn't be applied lightly. It should be reserved for the most egregious cases when it is necessary to protect people from monsters.
It should also not be too easy. I oppose the use of chemical cocktails. Why? Because it is like putting down a dog and it comes across as just the prisoner going to sleep. It becomes too easy. It should never be easy.
If we feel we must do it, then we should be honest about the violence we intend. I favor hanging, for it done properly the snap of the neck is instantaneous. I also support the many rituals (e.g. last meal), because it gives weight to the event.
Again, sometimes it is necessary, but it should never be easy.
Posted by: The Political Hat at April 05, 2014 08:30 AM (AymDN)
258
Oh, it's you, Mike. Never mind.
Posted by: [/i]andycanuck[/b] at April 05, 2014 08:31 AM (hn5v5)
259
andy - Yeah, yeah..., that's right, abuse the old guy.
Posted by: Mike Hammer at April 05, 2014 08:31 AM (aDwsi)
260
Notice that support for the death penalty peaked between the mid-'80s and early-'90s, when the murder rate also peaked. I bet that if you plotted the murder rate on the same graph, support for the death penalty would track with it pretty closely.
Posted by: jic at April 05, 2014 08:32 AM (F6kVk)
262
How do you make the little sunglasses guy ?
Posted by: grammie winger at April 05, 2014 08:33 AM (oMKp3)
263
That mulch is NOT going to spread itself. Oh, wait. Is this the gardening thread
Posted by: Mike Hammer at April 05, 2014 08:33 AM (aDwsi)
265
the wait itself is painful cruelty.
Posted by: sven10077 at April 05, 2014 12:19 PM (TE35l)
I agree, as it should be for those who commit murder, such as child killers. But for the state to execute the killers I believe it should be quick and as painless as possible.
But, as an individual, if I had my hands on the sob's I would make it long and painful.
Posted by: ExSnipe at April 05, 2014 08:35 AM (hzpoi)
268
And, yes, the 8 ) turning into sunglasses smiley and no ampersands is still active for Pale Moon users just as for Firefox. Oh, cool. And the spellchecker is still intact too as my typo of "jsut" just showed me.
Posted by: andycanuck at April 05, 2014 12:29 PM (hn5v5)
I'll have to give Pale Moon a try as my secondary browser.
Posted by: The Browsin' Hat at April 05, 2014 08:36 AM (AymDN)
270
14 Tommy Lynn Sells (June 28, 1964 – April 3, 2014) was an American serial killer. Sells is believed to have committed at least 22 murders. Retired Texas Ranger John Allen states, "We did confirm 22... I know there's more. I know there's a lot more. Obviously, we won't ever know." On April 3, 2014, Sells was executed
Posted by: thunderb at April 05, 2014 09:46 AM (zOTsN)
Nice. I knew he was in the queue but missed the news. Funny how they almost never run execution stories on a national level anymore.
Posted by: Dack Thrombosis at April 05, 2014 08:36 AM (oFCZn)
272
You people are taxing our reserves.
Posted by: The AoS Hamsters at April 05, 2014 08:36 AM (Dwehj)
273
This discussion reminded me of an article I read a little while ago. I finally tracked it down. It's about some Space Shuttle pad workers who were killed in an accident involving nitrogen on March 19, 1981 shortly before the first launch.
http://www.baen.com/Columbia.asp
Posted by: rickl at April 05, 2014 08:37 AM (sdi6R)
274
grammie - ask andy..., I have no idea re sunglasses.
Posted by: Mike Hammer at April 05, 2014 08:38 AM (aDwsi)
275
»» Getting killed in error by the system is a civic service imho. —sven10077
I've always said, if you support execution, you must accept you* might end up there in error - which I presume is the principle to which you're referring. The alternative being anarchy and vigilantism and gangs...
* Fortunately, I've avoided it so far.
Posted by: mindful webworker wiggling out at April 05, 2014 08:38 AM (MwpNJ)
277
You people are taxing our reserves.
Posted by: The AoS
-------------
Wait until the IRS gets hold of you.
Posted by: Mike Hammer at April 05, 2014 08:39 AM (aDwsi)
278
I tried installing Opera yesterday but it failed. (XP Pro on my pc.)
I guess I'll see how Pale Moon works for the rest of the week and if it doesn't lead to any problems, I'll make it my main browser. Good stuff.
I guess I'll see how Pale Moon works for the rest of the week and if it doesn't lead to any problems, I'll make it my main browser. Good stuff.
Posted by: [/i]andycanuck[/b] at April 05, 2014 08:39 AM (hn5v5)
279
The wait is not painful. They all think that they are going to beat the rap. Lord knows there are enough gullible people rallying for them.
Posted by: Progressive Pug at April 05, 2014 08:39 AM (vFh9Q)
280
265 ExSnipe at April 05, 2014 12:35 PM (hzpoi)
Eh then the logic seems circular.
I bear you no opprobrium, I think Hat has it right.
It shouldn't be easy, it should be in justice's toolkit.
I'd rather be punched out quick than wait for 40 years and die of clogged arteries from shit prison food.
Your three appeals should be done within two years IMHO b/c you are supposed to be litigating procedure not evidence at that point.
If the system fails and an innocent falls make restitution but keep its deterrent impact and have society set lines.
The asshole in Norway that killed a bunch of folks on an island.....
his sentence enrages me as a member of the human race.
Posted by: sven10077 at April 05, 2014 08:40 AM (TE35l)
282
I'm out. Yard work awaits..., and will continue to do so for 6 mos., damnit.
Posted by: Mike Hammer at April 05, 2014 08:40 AM (aDwsi)
283
Yeah against Death Penalty for proven murders but those Climate Change Deniers, NRA leadership and well all conservatives need to be shot in the street without trial. Just for having an different option than me
Posted by: Lefty Hipocrite at April 05, 2014 08:41 AM (bkAvJ)
284
279 Progressive Pug at April 05, 2014 12:39 PM (vFh9Q)
a lot of them, especially serial killers yeah you're right...
of course serial killers are to me barely human.
Posted by: sven10077 at April 05, 2014 08:41 AM (TE35l)
285
I'll make it my main browser. Good stuff.
Posted by: andy
-----------------
And good info.
Posted by: Mike Hammer at April 05, 2014 08:41 AM (aDwsi)
287
I wonder how much of the decline in support is due to TV's effect on the discussion... CSI / NCIS / Bones, etc. have done the 'get the conviction overturned with new DNA evidence' episodes multiple times, and we know that LIV opinion is very swayable by the perceived reality of TV.
Posted by: phreshone at April 05, 2014 08:42 AM (kFxpe)
288
237
I've made the argument here before that executions for treason must be by hanging, not firing squad. The method matters.
Hanging is sordid and disreputable. A firing squad has an air of honor about it; shaking hands with the riflemen before standing against the wall, the last cigarette, refusing the blindfold, and the Breaker Morant thing of "shoot straight you bastards, don't make a mess of it!"
Posted by: IllTemperedCur at April 05, 2014 12:16 PM (c2oll)
I agree. And as The Political Hat pointed out, lethal injection is how we put down our beloved pets to end their suffering. That's much too good for murderers.
Posted by: rickl at April 05, 2014 08:42 AM (sdi6R)
289
275 mindful webworker wiggling out at April 05, 2014 12:38 PM (MwpNJ)
Yup, I was reading one of the pseudoscience "conservatives are suck ass coward" studies bits yesterday....
Here's the main difference IMHO of the modern conservative and the modern moontard...
mankind is bigger than me, I accept that I am at most an ink blot of God's poem of mankind...
and yeah in building a better more sane human condition I may be executed in error if I am in any way in a position that a jury of my peers could mistake my culpability....
of course....
I try not to be in the middle of things that lead to capital trials....
Posted by: sven10077 at April 05, 2014 08:44 AM (TE35l)
290
Nice. I knew he was in the queue but missed the news. Funny how they almost never run execution stories on a national level anymore.
Posted by: Dack Thrombosis at April 05, 2014 12:36 PM (oFCZn)
They couldn't milk him for sympathy since the guy was a disgusting POS. There is an interview with him where he whines how he has been mistreated because the COs don't give him a warning when he violaes the rules and just take away his hotpot or some bullshit.
Posted by: Progressive Pug at April 05, 2014 08:46 AM (vFh9Q)
291
"Soon the Left/State will want to kill those they do not like. But this is not yet a criminal death penalty issue."
Give it a little time.Think about the recent SCOTUS decision and then the Mozilla debacle. Anyone here doubt that if the left had enough votes/power that people's political views would become part of the decision making process when determining people's fates?
Posted by: RM at April 05, 2014 08:46 AM (fRppw)
292
Speaking of eliminationist rhetoric:
This lady basically want you to be shot in the street -- ideally by Samuel L. Jackson doing a cool black guy movie rant while he shoots you in the face.
Host for A Place in Your Heart Radio http://www.blogtalkradio.com/a-place-in-your-heart Â…
Educational Specialist, Ordained Minister, Lover of Michael Jackson and proud member of #Unite Blue
Illinois.USA · UniteBlue.org/user/doit4MJ
A PLACE N YOUR HEART @doit4MJ 2h
Amen Baby! pic.twitter.com/JEdiL94KEZ
Posted by: Costanza Defense at April 05, 2014 08:48 AM (ZPrif)
293
290 Progressive Pug at April 05, 2014 12:46 PM (vFh9Q)
Sells is as Gus says in Lonesome Dove the type if fella it's a pleasure to hang...
http://youtu.be/VZPCJ5_nT00
Tommy Lynn Sells - The Coast-to-Coast Killer -Full Serial Killer
Posted by: sven10077 at April 05, 2014 08:48 AM (TE35l)
294
My son said that on the contrary, it provided a laser like focus on that very occurrence.
Obviously you raised him right.
Obviously you raised him right.
Posted by: DaveA[/i][/b][/s] at April 05, 2014 08:48 AM (DL2i+)
295
I bear you no opprobrium
Posted by: sven10077 at April 05, 2014 12:40 PM (TE35l)
No problem. We probably agree a lot more than disagree. It's just that sometimes the quickly written words don't always mean what we want them too.
Posted by: ExSnipe at April 05, 2014 08:49 AM (hzpoi)
296
There's this guy on death row for a murder robbery spree when he murdered 3 people. His scottish penpal posts on a leo/da forum how he was a poor misunderstood bunny. A CO posts that he recently hit an officer with some sort of spear he made in the face. The scottish bitch then starts laughing and saying how funny it was. They are in these cells with only beat slots but they are still dangerous as fuck. They have homemade spears, slingshots, and mix feces and urnine to toss at people. I could never work in a prison. I'm too much of a coward.
Posted by: Progressive Pug at April 05, 2014 08:49 AM (vFh9Q)
297
291 RM at April 05, 2014 12:46 PM (fRppw)
I have a rebuttal vote in that game RM, and God help them if I ever decide the US Government is needing removed.
It's in the document for God's sakes.
We were discussing yesterday how the Good may have to put "nice" in the Hope chest...
Posted by: sven10077 at April 05, 2014 08:50 AM (TE35l)
298
If you had a red button on your console and were told that you could terminate all libs by pushing it, what would you do?
Posted by: Velvet Ambition at April 05, 2014 12:20 PM (R8hU
At one point in my life I would have said no. These days after witnessing their rabid fascism and their march to destroy anything opposed to them, I would push that button with my dick and giggle myself to sleep.
Posted by: Berserker-Dragonheads Division at April 05, 2014 08:52 AM (FMbng)
300
A little girl on a sleepover witnessed Sells molesting and then slitting her friend's throat. When he came for her, she grabbed her throat with her hands. He ordered her to remove her hands and she refused. Finally she relented and he slit her throat. Luckily, he slit her trach but not her carotid and she survived to pick him out of a lineup.
Posted by: Progressive Pug at April 05, 2014 08:53 AM (vFh9Q)
301
FF vs. Opera/Chrome
Made the switch to Chrome yesterday (had problems with opera bookmarks - they have the same core basis)...
Chrome seems much better here, worse on other sites (youtube especially on my old P4 Sony surfing machine)
Gonna be tough as it will take a long time for all my autofill socks to build up - i'll be trailing the moron sock-standing for months now
Posted by: Rick Ellenberg at April 05, 2014 08:54 AM (kFxpe)
302
Here's the web page...
http://www.palemoon.org/
I had no problem using the automatic install button through Firefox although I can't recall now if it "ran" automatically or if I had to click the .exe file separately (even though I just did it 10 minutes ago!) to get it to fully install, but nothing more than that.
It showed check-boxes to import items from Internet Explorer that I checked; and when it fully loaded and I first accessed the desktop icon, the Pale Moon homepage that appeared had a link to an app by a secondary source to import my full Firefox bookmarks, passwords etc.
So I downloaded it and followed the instructions to close both the Firefox and Pale Moon browsers before running the app; then ran the app from my Downloads file by the usual double-clicking the .exe file icon and it ran just fine including a popup question to answer about the importing. Then when the app had run completely, I opened the Pale Moon browser and it had indeed copied all of my bookmarks etc. over without a hitch (as far as I can tell so far)---and I have a ton of them.
I even did a quick check to see if all of my sockpuppets were stored in the HQ "Name*" field and it looks like they're all there too.
http://www.palemoon.org/
I had no problem using the automatic install button through Firefox although I can't recall now if it "ran" automatically or if I had to click the .exe file separately (even though I just did it 10 minutes ago!) to get it to fully install, but nothing more than that.
It showed check-boxes to import items from Internet Explorer that I checked; and when it fully loaded and I first accessed the desktop icon, the Pale Moon homepage that appeared had a link to an app by a secondary source to import my full Firefox bookmarks, passwords etc.
So I downloaded it and followed the instructions to close both the Firefox and Pale Moon browsers before running the app; then ran the app from my Downloads file by the usual double-clicking the .exe file icon and it ran just fine including a popup question to answer about the importing. Then when the app had run completely, I opened the Pale Moon browser and it had indeed copied all of my bookmarks etc. over without a hitch (as far as I can tell so far)---and I have a ton of them.
I even did a quick check to see if all of my sockpuppets were stored in the HQ "Name*" field and it looks like they're all there too.
Posted by: [/i]andycanuck[/b] at April 05, 2014 08:54 AM (hn5v5)
303
I'm just a thoughtful man trying to make suggestions for how to make the country a better place. I think we should give convicted murderers a $25,000 voucher and a seat in Congress with a hefty pay raise.
Posted by: jcompass at April 05, 2014 08:56 AM (g4TxM)
304
Thank you, Virginia. John Allen Muhammad is still dead.
Posted by: Shoot Me at April 05, 2014 08:56 AM (EQcfE)
305
Posted by: huerfano at April 05, 2014 10:18 AM (bAGA/)
Too bad about New Mexico. I have read their old dp website and they had some really mean motherfuckers on deathrow.
Posted by: Progressive Pug at April 05, 2014 08:56 AM (vFh9Q)
306
"Also trying to use Christian faith to subvert the death penalty is charming.
"
Were it not for the death penalty, there would be no Christian faith.
Were it not for the death penalty, there would be no Christian faith.
Posted by: Dang at April 05, 2014 08:58 AM (MNq6o)
307
California's death row is so stuffed full of fucking lowlifes that feeding time is one of the most dangerous jobs in the prison.
They should just pump each little cell full of gas and be done with them.
Posted by: Dack Thrombosis at April 05, 2014 08:59 AM (oFCZn)
308
306 Dang at April 05, 2014 12:58 PM (MNq6o)
Quite and even more still a wrongfully applied death penalty....
not wanting a woman hypocritically stoned to death is not "all prior doctrine on mortal crime is void" IMHO
Posted by: sven10077 at April 05, 2014 09:00 AM (TE35l)
310
An option I would support is those on death row are put into a room with the family or friends of the victims. Instructions would would simple.
The killer does not come out of this room alive.
Posted by: ExSnipe at April 05, 2014 09:06 AM (hzpoi)
311
Now they're trying to say that snoring and dropping off to sleep and eventual death is cruel and unusual punishment.
Bullshit.
I've suffered more trying to sleep with a stuffed up nose than these fuckers have dying from lethal injection.
Posted by: Dack Thrombosis at April 05, 2014 09:06 AM (oFCZn)
312
What's anycanuck fapping about? Moonpie browsers? WTF?
Posted by: Progressive Pug at April 05, 2014 09:07 AM (vFh9Q)
313
Unfortunately for us, Democrats dropped their opposition to the death penalty, especially after it cost Dukakis a landslide election.
Too bad Republicans can't purge ridiculous positions like "no abortion even in cases of rape".
Too bad Republicans can't purge ridiculous positions like "no abortion even in cases of rape".
Posted by: Uniden at April 05, 2014 09:08 AM (13G+x)
314
Here's a very recent case for which no verdicts have been rendered yet. The suspect admitted killing his 12 year old brother to police:
Detectives said that when they asked Ward why he killed his brother he told them, "Honestly, I just felt like killing."
Okaaaay. So they throw him in the pokey with a cellmate, and he kills his cellmate too.
Ward reportedly admitted to a play-by-play of the attack in an interview with detectives and told investigators that he had "no regrets," according to a sheriff's statement.
Ward relayed that he had cut Walker's throat with a plastic playing card, stabbed him in the eyes and throat with a golf pencil and finished the assault by stuffing a plastic bag down Walker's throat, according to a sheriff's statement.
http://tinyurl.com/mrllkjq
(USA Today)
Hey, at least now he gets his very own cell all to himself. Maybe he just had a bad century at the office.
Detectives said that when they asked Ward why he killed his brother he told them, "Honestly, I just felt like killing."
Okaaaay. So they throw him in the pokey with a cellmate, and he kills his cellmate too.
Ward reportedly admitted to a play-by-play of the attack in an interview with detectives and told investigators that he had "no regrets," according to a sheriff's statement.
Ward relayed that he had cut Walker's throat with a plastic playing card, stabbed him in the eyes and throat with a golf pencil and finished the assault by stuffing a plastic bag down Walker's throat, according to a sheriff's statement.
http://tinyurl.com/mrllkjq
(USA Today)
Hey, at least now he gets his very own cell all to himself. Maybe he just had a bad century at the office.
Posted by: GnuBreed at April 05, 2014 09:09 AM (cHZB7)
315
I have long supported the death penalty, but of late that support has...softened. I believe a sane society should reserve the final say in removing threats to life and liberty from its midst permanently; however, my faith in the legal system (and increasingly the rest of government) to carry out this duty competently and in faithful accordance to the principles of a free and honest nation are rapidly shrinking to something like nil.
So the bar, it's a bit higher than it once was for me.
Posted by: Brother Cavil at April 05, 2014 09:10 AM (m9V0o)
316
If anyone has the time, especially if you beliieve in the death penalty, he should read about John Demjanjuk. He was accused of being a death camp guard for the Germans in WWII.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Demjanjuk
Posted by: bergerbilder at April 05, 2014 09:10 AM (8MjqI)
318
Luckily, he slit her trach but not her carotid and she survived to pick him out of a lineup.
Posted by: Progressive Pug
ugh
God Bless her
she is worth a million of him
Posted by: thunderb at April 05, 2014 09:12 AM (zOTsN)
319
For years I've bought whole bean coffee and ground it before brewing. I always kept the bag in the freezer. Recently I learned that that's not actually a good idea, because condensation can form when the bag is repeatedly removed and replaced in the freezer.
So earlier this week I ordered a Friis Coffee Vault and received it yesterday. That was perfect timing, since the bag I was using was just about empty and this morning I opened a new bag and poured the beans in the vault.
http://www.friiscoffee.com/
In addition to sealing out air, moisture, and light, the lid of the coffee vault contains a replaceable filter that vents CO2 gas produced by the beans. Friis recommends replacing the filter every two months, and the vault comes with six replacement filters, or a year's supply. They also sell them in packs of six for $4.99, which isn't bad.
But what's really cool is that these are the exact same little plastic "button" filters that come with bags of coffee. Not similar, identical. I peeled the filters off my old bag of Starbucks and my new bag of Eight O'Clock Coffee, and they are both exactly the same as the filters that came with the vault.
So when I open a new bag of coffee beans and put them in the vault, all I have to do is peel the filter off the inside of the bag and put it in the lid of the vault. That's pretty neat.
But since Friis recommends replacing them every two months, I wonder what is the average time between when a bag of coffee is packed at the factory and when I buy it at the store.
Posted by: rickl at April 05, 2014 09:13 AM (sdi6R)
320
Read up on the Knoxville Massacre crimes when some racist black guys kidnapped, raped and tortured -- for days -- a young white college couple cause they just hated white people and wanted to destroy and debase something white and beautiful. So they sought out a young, white, good-looking college couple to destroy.
Media silence on the Knoxville Massacre, of course. One of the worst racial hate crimes in modern American history. Media uninterested. Who/Whom was all wrong.
Posted by: Costanza Defense at April 05, 2014 09:14 AM (ZPrif)
321
John Demjanjuk was a huge story around here, because he ended up settling in this area. I've forgotten most of the evidence and so forth, though.
Posted by: Barb the Evil Genius at April 05, 2014 09:15 AM (yE8uc)
322
Breitbart is back up, btw. No word on why they were down at the site.
Posted by: GnuBreed at April 05, 2014 09:20 AM (cHZB7)
323
I do not think the death penalty should be dropped as an option, but I believe it should always be contentious.
At the risk of sounding more clever than thoughtful, the only death penalty I am wholly in favor of is that carried out by the intended victim (or proxy thereof) immediately before the crime occurs.
I certainly don't trust the calcified and corrupt "justice" system and its political masters, in the context of which long, drawn-out legal fights make *sense*, not only because they enrich the participants, but because the chance is (slightly) higher that major screw-ups and corruption will be discovered.
And though my experience with the penal system is quite limited, I've worked with a number of people with (largely law-side) experience with it, and it seems fairly obvious *that* system has been almost entirely co-opted by interested parties with agendas, and does relatively little of what it should do.
Instead, prisons warehouse criminals together, providing them with ample physical training and opportunities to collaborate and educate and acculturate each other in their chosen lifestyle - menace to others.
It's a pretty huge mess, and people avoid dealing with huge messes, so it will stay a huge mess.
Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith[/i][/b][/s][/u] at April 05, 2014 09:20 AM (qyfb5)
324
Read up on the Knoxville Massacre crimes when some racist black guys kidnapped, raped and tortured -- for days -- a young white college couple cause they just hated white people and wanted to destroy and debase something white and beautiful.
I remember. The only person who covered that was Michelle Malkin.
Total media blackout.
Posted by: Bevel Lemelisk at April 05, 2014 09:20 AM (kZyv8)
326
OK, I skipped to the bottom of the thread, so someone else may have addressed this, but I am sick unto death of people whining about how the death penalty is handled in Texas. The law allows it, the people of this state support it. Further Texas is the second largest state in the Union in terms of size, after Alaska. And we do have a good sized population (especially nowadays with all this out-of-state trash moving down here for jobs; they turned their own states into cesspools, and now they are coming here to do the same thing...but I digress). And with a large population, you will have a certain number of miscreants committing heinous crimes.
The examples cited above are typical of the sorts of crimes people are put to death for in Texas. "Crimes of passion" type of killings, that sort of thing, no. People don't get executed for those. But the premeditated murders, murders committed while committing a felony crime, that sort of thing, yes. And if you note the amount of time that passed for each of the examples cites, from the time of their conviction to the time of their execution, averages 15 to 20 years, while their cases are re-examined again, and again, and again, through multiple appellate courts, all the way through to the US Supreme Court, every fucking time, so there are multiple chances to make sure no mistakes are made.
And every damned one of the individuals executed in Texas committed truly heinous crimes, of the sorts that would turn the average person's stomach. Some people are just plain evil. From childhood. I've seen it. Why they are this way is anyone's guess. But the fact remains that you can't deal with them. You either lock them up in a cage forever, or you kill them, especially after they have been caught and convicted for the one of no doubt many horrible crimes they have committed. So quit whining; we do know what we are doing.
Posted by: The Oort Cloud at April 05, 2014 09:23 AM (l1Nun)
327
I'm back for an on-topic sock link... Does Y-Not read Slate???
Posted by: [/i]andycanuck[/b] at April 05, 2014 09:23 AM (hn5v5)
329
Growing up in the Great State of Texas, I remember there was a time when a person could be acquitted of a murder charge by telling the judge "He needed killing." It's a fact of life: there are people who go so bad, both men and women, that there's no hope of redemption.
When Wisconsin governor Jim Doyle was still the state AG, he would go on radio in Madison proclaiming how "the state has no right to take a human life" under any circumstances. My first thought was a lot more people were going to be brutalized and murdered, and vigilantism would be the next logical step.
The Constitution prohibits "cruel and unusual punishment." Please explain to me how living out the rest of your life in a prison hell-hole, as opposed to a quick death, is more "humane." The truth is, many of you "compassionate people" lack the integrity and courage to do what sometimes must be done to protect innocents, particularly children, from predators, and you justify your cowardice by labeling the death penalty as "inhumane."
When Wisconsin governor Jim Doyle was still the state AG, he would go on radio in Madison proclaiming how "the state has no right to take a human life" under any circumstances. My first thought was a lot more people were going to be brutalized and murdered, and vigilantism would be the next logical step.
The Constitution prohibits "cruel and unusual punishment." Please explain to me how living out the rest of your life in a prison hell-hole, as opposed to a quick death, is more "humane." The truth is, many of you "compassionate people" lack the integrity and courage to do what sometimes must be done to protect innocents, particularly children, from predators, and you justify your cowardice by labeling the death penalty as "inhumane."
Posted by: WildWillyC at April 05, 2014 09:24 AM (MHDvl)
331
Breitbart is back up, btw. No word on why they were down at the site.
Posted by: GnuBreed at April 05, 2014 01:20 PM (cHZB7)
I've hit the 503 many times in the past week. It usually been up again within 30 minutes... I'm wondering if they are under constant bombardment, or prepping a major upgrade
Posted by: Breitbart was here at April 05, 2014 09:26 AM (kFxpe)
332
Demjanjuk won his appeals, was never executed, but was deported based on his lies to enter to US. He was deported to Germany, which does not have a death penalty. He fought deportation to Germany, say it would be "torture". Which is quite frankly disgusting. Although he was not Ivan the Terrible, its pretty clear he was a camp guard and lied to get into the United States.
I am failing to see your point. In his case, though it took forever, the justice system worked. He was not executed and he was only deported, as he should have been decades before.
He won his appeals and was only deported. I don't see how it applies
Posted by: thunderb at April 05, 2014 09:26 AM (zOTsN)
333
But since Friis recommends replacing them every two months, I wonder what is the average time between when a bag of coffee is packed at the factory and when I buy it at the store.
Posted by: rickl at April 05, 2014 01:13 PM (sdi6R
Months and months.
Check out Black Coffee Roasting in Missoula.
They roast everything fresh and will ship it to you.
Posted by: garrett at April 05, 2014 09:27 AM (podBk)
334
That's right, Oort Cloud. About one execution a month in Texas for the past 38 years (since 1976 at least) doesn't sound overdone to me either.
Posted by: [/i]andycanuck[/b] at April 05, 2014 09:28 AM (hn5v5)
335
This lady basically want you to be shot in the street -- ideally by Samuel L. Jackson doing a cool black guy movie rant while he shoots you in the face.
This lady is aware, isn't she, that many of us own, even if we don't always carry? And that can be changed quickly, if necessary.
Posted by: Fox2! at April 05, 2014 09:29 AM (cHwSy)
336
I guess coffee is something we can thank the Muslims for, since it first became widespread in the Ottoman Empire and the Europeans got it from them:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coffee#Social_and_culture
(This is still an open thread after all. We don't have to talk about the death penalty.
Posted by: rickl at April 05, 2014 09:30 AM (sdi6R)
337
crimes and murder and rape were committed by mankind before there were prisons and rehab offerings. It is part of the state of man. Eliminating the death penalty will do nothing but prolong the life of people inclined to make the world messy
Posted by: thunderb at April 05, 2014 09:31 AM (zOTsN)
338
This lady is aware, isn't she, that many of us own, even if we don't always carry? And that can be changed quickly, if necessary.
--
I like the fact that she claims to be an ordained minister, but likes to publicly fantasize about the prospect of mass murdering white conservatives.
Posted by: Costanza Defense at April 05, 2014 09:33 AM (ZPrif)
339
311 Now they're trying to say that snoring and dropping off to sleep and eventual death is cruel and unusual punishment.
Bullshit.
I've suffered more trying to sleep with a stuffed up nose than these fuckers have dying from lethal injection.
Posted by: Dack Thrombosis at April 05, 2014 01:06 PM (oFCZn)
Why not? For a long time they whined that starting the IV was cruel.
Posted by: Progressive Pug at April 05, 2014 09:35 AM (vFh9Q)
340
[Y-not] (In the interest of full-disclosure, I actually oppose the death penalty. I do not like giving the State that much power over its citizens and the notion runs counter to my belief in the sanctity of human life. )
******
A fair point. One reason to support the death penalty is that it is a firewall against leftist encroachment. As long as we have the death penalty, we have life without parole.
But as soon as the death penalty goes away, the leftists will start to hammer at life without parole, saying it is cruel to imprison someone without giving him the chance to rehabilitate himself.
Posted by: Taco Shack at April 05, 2014 09:37 AM (C+qQ0)
341
Demjannnuikkkkk should have been executed but we lacked jurisdiction to try him. Germany got rid of the dp when too many of their ex nazi war criminals were being executed in the early 50s. Demjannnnuuuiiikk's job was to beat naked victims up the tunnel to heaven or what ever they called it into the gas chamber. They estimated he did this to 23,000 victims. Burn in hell, asshole!
Posted by: Progressive Pug at April 05, 2014 09:41 AM (vFh9Q)
342
(This is still an open thread after all. We don't have to talk about the death penalty.
Posted by: rickl at April 05, 2014 01:30 PM (sdi6R)
Ace was talking about reviewing Captain America: The Winter Soldier.
It oughta be good given this review.
Captain America: Red, White, and False
In Winter Soldier, Hollywood politics meet ersatz patriotism.
over at the NRO
http://tinyurl.com/oh9n838
I'm sad, really. A good film would be nice for a change.
Posted by: artisanal 'ette at April 05, 2014 09:43 AM (IXrOn)
343
But as soon as the death penalty goes away, the leftists will start to hammer at life without parole, saying it is cruel to imprison someone without giving him the chance to rehabilitate himself.
Posted by: Taco Shack at April 05, 2014 01:37 PM (C+qQ0)
That is the plan. Not just lwop but life and any sentence over 15-20 years.
Posted by: Progressive Pug at April 05, 2014 09:43 AM (vFh9Q)
346
I tried to save you, artisanal 'ette. But the Barrel awaits.
Posted by: rickl at April 05, 2014 09:44 AM (sdi6R)
347
sorry
yeah, I'm off the barrel
I've been due, anyway.
Posted by: artisanal 'ette at April 05, 2014 09:45 AM (IXrOn)
348
Yep, the Left fantasizes about the prospects of a Black Panther organization whose members can only get a max 20 year sentence no matter what they do or how many people they kill.
They have this fetish idea of black dudes going all Django Unchained on white conservatives. It really stokes their hate-boners.
Posted by: Costanza Defense at April 05, 2014 09:47 AM (ZPrif)
349
They should just pump each little cell full of gas and be done with them.
A little VX, a little Sarin.
Posted by: Fox2! at April 05, 2014 09:50 AM (cHwSy)
350
332
Check out Black Coffee Roasting in Missoula.
They roast everything fresh and will ship it to you.
Posted by: garrett at April 05, 2014 01:27 PM (podBk)
That looks interesting. I might give them a try, although with shipping it's a lot more expensive than what I'm used to buying. The taste and freshness might be worth it, though.
Posted by: rickl at April 05, 2014 09:51 AM (sdi6R)
351
With the current administration's level of disdain for individual civil rights and their level of indifference to the rule of law, I think it is just as well that we have a temporary hiatus in regards to court-ordered executions, even if those executions are at the state level.
Posted by: mrp at April 05, 2014 09:56 AM (JBggj)
352
Don't the civil rights laws protect someone for being fired for opposing gay marriage -- at least if they can claim it is part of being religiously observant.
If you are Catholic then you are following Church teaching on the subject. Publicly opposing gay marriage then is a simple matter of publicly following your faith.
So an agnostic could be fired for opposing gay marriage, but not a devout Catholic?
Posted by: Costanza Defense at April 05, 2014 09:57 AM (ZPrif)
353
It is illegal to fire somebody for being a Catholic, Baptist, Jew, Mormon, Muslim, Hindu, 7th Day Adventists, etc, etc, right?
That is part of the current Civil Rights Act, right?
Posted by: Costanza Defense at April 05, 2014 09:59 AM (ZPrif)
354
If I believed that the justice system was perfect and nobody ever was convicted falsely, I would be in favor of the death penalty for many crimes. Premeditated murder? Death. Rape? Death. Robbery where weapons were waved around but nobody got hurt... not death, but robbery where someone gets killed? Death.
However, I do not believe the justice system is perfect so I am more conflicted about the death penalty.
I sometimes wonder about adapting the "three strikes you're out" idea to the death penalty: "three strikes you're dead". On your third conviction for premeditated murder or whatever, you become eligible for the death penalty. (Our justice system is far from perfect, but to falsely convict someone of murder three times seems pretty unlikely to me.)
Of course, the above idea is partly based on the idea that after the third conviction, the death penalty would actually happen. The current system where appeals take years and people might die of old age before getting executed... not good. Either don't execute people, or do, but don't put someone on death row and leave him there for years during the appeals.
I think there is something to be said for the libertarian idea that criminals need to literally repay their debts, and that since there is no way to make a murder right, a criminal may need to forfeit his life after committing murder. I don't take it as far as some libertarians though... I would rather not make the widow of the murdered man execute the murderer personally or anything like that. I'd rather have a small government that handles law enforcement.
Posted by: mr_jack at April 05, 2014 10:16 AM (M59SC)
355
Sorry if this has been said before I only skimmed the comments. I agree with the poster mostly I'm anti-death penalty because I'm wary of government power but I absolutely cannot stand anti-death penalty advocates because of their incessant gushing over the worst monsters in the world. Tookie Williams is a good example, "But he's changed! He wrote a children's book! Racism!" Ugh.
When I was wrestling with my conscience over the issue of executing criminals I asked a Libertarian I admired and he said "Easy: Privatize it."
"How the hell do you privatize capital punishment? " I asked
"The criminal should be executed at the scene of the attempted crime, by a private citizen defending himself or others, preferably with a gun, and he should be protected from prosecution or civil suits."
So now that my official position on the death penalty. Government can give it up, as long as I've got my gun rights and dont end up like Zimmerman.
"How
Posted by: Serena at April 05, 2014 10:23 AM (M33Mf)
356
If anything I feel like the system is two lenient. I don't know how many of you frequent the ONT, but Thanksgiving 2012, my wife's two-year old cousin was beaten to death by his mom's boyfriend. Talked about it at length back then. The coroner at the trial said that the nature of his injuries were consistent with being in a high-speed car accident they were so bad. Bastard copped a plea, got sentenced to 28 years, then announced to the judge he was appealing because he didn't feel that he got adequate representation. Even if he doesn't succeed in his appeal he'll be eligible for parole in 11 years.
Posted by: Emile Antoon Khadaji at April 05, 2014 10:37 AM (CrJzY)
357
I was pro-death penalty for most of my life. Then I became very afraid of my own government, and even more afraid of both its incompetence and its capriciousness.
Posted by: Rusty Nail at April 05, 2014 10:43 AM (WtVhX)
358
353
I don't take it as far as some libertarians though... I would rather not make the widow of the murdered man execute the murderer personally or anything like that. I'd rather have a small government that handles law enforcement.
Posted by: mr_jack at April 05, 2014 02:16 PM (M59SC)
How about my hybrid method that I mentioned in an earlier comment?
The criminal would be convicted and sentenced to death by a jury trial, as usual. On the day of his execution, he would be led to the gallows, the rope would be placed around his neck (or the needle inserted, or whatever method was used), and then a relative or close friend of the victim would have to push the button to open the trap door (or administer the injection). If nobody who was close to the victim was willing to do that, then the sentence would be commuted to life imprisonment.
Ideally it would be a member of the victim's immediate family, but if none were available, it would be a member of the extended family or a friend. But not just anybody could volunteer. It would have to be someone who had an actual connection to the victim. Otherwise, life imprisonment.
Posted by: rickl at April 05, 2014 10:47 AM (sdi6R)
359
John Nolte @NolteNC
.@billmaher announces he'll use his multimillion Time Warner-funded platform to take out GOP congressman. Then whines about $ in politics.
Posted by: Costanza Defense at April 05, 2014 11:01 AM (ZPrif)
360
The poster boy for the death penalty is Kenneth Allen McDuff.
He was convicted of capital murder and sentenced to death for murder in 1966. Then came Furman v. Georgia in 1972. McDuff's sentence was commuted to life. (Gregg vs. Georgia reinstated the death penalty, but not for those convicted and sentenced to death prior to 1972, like Charlie Manson.) In 1989, due to 'prison overcrowding', McDuff was paroled. After release, he went on killing, murdering 5 or more. He was again sentenced to death. Texas finally took out the trash in November 1998.
There's an old saying when it comes to wild animals: Once they have the taste for human blood, they don't stop. The some can be said for human animals who murder: Most do not commit first degree murder only once, though they may have been convicted of only 1 premeditated first degree murder and sentenced to death. Bundy was convicted of 3 murders out of supposedly 35 or so. He was executed for murdering Kimberly Leach, a pre-teen girl (murdering a child should be a fast track execution).
The death penalty has more safeguards, thanks to automatic appeals, than any other conviction. I seen no problem with the death penalty, although I think the cost can be trimmed a little by stopping frivolous appeals. Why should we house, feed, and provide medical care (now including sex change operations) for murderes for their natural lives?
Posted by: RickZ at April 05, 2014 11:09 AM (bBzIN)
361
355 If anything I feel like the system is two lenient. I don't know how many of you frequent the ONT, but Thanksgiving 2012, my wife's two-year old cousin was beaten to death by his mom's boyfriend. Talked about it at length back then. The coroner at the trial said that the nature of his injuries were consistent with being in a high-speed car accident they were so bad. Bastard copped a plea, got sentenced to 28 years, then announced to the judge he was appealing because he didn't feel that he got adequate representation. Even if he doesn't succeed in his appeal he'll be eligible for parole in 11 years.
Posted by: Emile Antoon Khadaji at April 05, 2014 02:37 PM (CrJzY)
That's horrible, Emile. 
Posted by: Progressive Pug at April 05, 2014 11:09 AM (vFh9Q)
362
Another condemned inmate deemed innocent by the media, with that belief splashed across the front page of Newsweek, was Roger Keith Coleman of Virginia. He went to the chair protesting his innocence. Years later, when the evidence used for his conviction was tested for DNA because of said claims of innocence by his 'supporters', her DNA was a match to the blood found on Coleman's pants. (Coleman was convicted of raping and murdering his sister-in-law, Wanda McCoy.)
Unless there is lab corruption, as happened in Oklahoma City and Bexar County, Texas, DNA is the strongest piece of forensic evidence and one I'm comfortable using in death penalty cases, though not to the exclusion of other evidence such as fingerprints, etc.
Posted by: RickZ at April 05, 2014 11:29 AM (bBzIN)
363
Too many defendants are using dna to delay executions, though. There has to be some logical basis for testing dna post conviction. Instead, we have every LIV buying into the dishonest argument that all evidence must be dna tested.
As far as Coleman goes, there was more than sufficient evidence of his guor the victim also had a very rare blood type which even without dna testing was enough. He was also a sexually violent predator. Yet, when he got out of prison the sister of the victim married him. She brought a snake into their family and her sister lost her life because of it.
Posted by: Progressive Pug at April 05, 2014 11:36 AM (vFh9Q)
364
This a dated stat of about ten years but it is likely very close.
Over 800 people are in prison now for homicide that were previously in prison for homicide before being released.
Posted by: Burt Toste at April 05, 2014 11:40 AM (Bllk5)
365
Too many people have a vested interest in people who would be eligible for the death penalty. Our nation is starting to resemble the mafia writ large. I doubt if anyone in a crime family is for the death penalty.Don Corleone has shared too many of his judges.
Posted by: Huggy at April 05, 2014 12:08 PM (5TdZp)
366
The government itself is now almost indistinguishable from organized crime.
Posted by: rickl at April 05, 2014 12:11 PM (sdi6R)
367
On second thought, strike "almost". We're there.
Posted by: rickl at April 05, 2014 12:12 PM (sdi6R)
368
The phrasing of the question is dumb.
We do NOT execute people for murder as the typical punishment.
what SOME states do is execute SOME people for murder in SOME circumstances.
"Texas executed its 500th person: Kimberly McCarthy. McCarthy was a former nurse and cocaine addict who stabbed her neighbor to death before robbing her. And while her story is striking, the real shock is that there were 499 people executed before her since the United States resumed the death penalty in 1976,"
...actually what is shocking is that 14,000 people were murdered per year since 1976, or around 450,000 murders in the US, while the number of executions in the US since then has been ...TINY.
Since the death penalty was reinstated in 1976, 1,369 convicted murderers have been executed in the United States. (As of March 1, 2014)
Less than 0.1% of murders lead to a death penalty execution.
So the REAL question to ask is not a yes/no but 'how much'.
What percentage of people convicted of murder do you think would be deserving of the death penalty?
A. Majority of them - 50% or more
B. Some of them - 10-25%
C. Very few - 2-5%
D. Only the worst of the worst - less than 1%
E. None of them - ZERO.
Current public policy is "D" or "E" depending on the state.
Anti-death penalty folks make it sound like policy is in the A or B range in some states. It's not.
Frankly, I don't think that, based on these numbers, we are using the death penalty enough. "C" would be better public policy, or around 300-500 executions per year.
We do NOT execute people for murder as the typical punishment.
what SOME states do is execute SOME people for murder in SOME circumstances.
"Texas executed its 500th person: Kimberly McCarthy. McCarthy was a former nurse and cocaine addict who stabbed her neighbor to death before robbing her. And while her story is striking, the real shock is that there were 499 people executed before her since the United States resumed the death penalty in 1976,"
...actually what is shocking is that 14,000 people were murdered per year since 1976, or around 450,000 murders in the US, while the number of executions in the US since then has been ...TINY.
Since the death penalty was reinstated in 1976, 1,369 convicted murderers have been executed in the United States. (As of March 1, 2014)
Less than 0.1% of murders lead to a death penalty execution.
So the REAL question to ask is not a yes/no but 'how much'.
What percentage of people convicted of murder do you think would be deserving of the death penalty?
A. Majority of them - 50% or more
B. Some of them - 10-25%
C. Very few - 2-5%
D. Only the worst of the worst - less than 1%
E. None of them - ZERO.
Current public policy is "D" or "E" depending on the state.
Anti-death penalty folks make it sound like policy is in the A or B range in some states. It's not.
Frankly, I don't think that, based on these numbers, we are using the death penalty enough. "C" would be better public policy, or around 300-500 executions per year.
Posted by: Obama Lied Jobs Died at April 05, 2014 02:11 PM (wT9UL)
369
First...it's a Pew Poll?
I don't trust their polls at all.
Second...the media lies these days about crimes.
If it is a black-on-white crime, or a crime committed by a muzzlim...they don't report on the horrific details.
So people are not being informed enough about how horrible some the most horrible crimes are.
Therefore polling on this is based on people's intentionally uninformed perceptions.
Posted by: wheatie at April 05, 2014 02:14 PM (FWbLS)
370
"31
I go back and forth on the death penalty. I am closer to Y-not's view.
Of course there are people who merit it. Of course. But I too do not
want the power of life and death to reside in the State"
The power of life and death resides in the State ANYWAY. By not punishing killers enough, you may be at risk and a single slow response by the cops to death yourself. Dont like the state going to war? Well, losing wars and getting people killed by enemies is just another way to die.
"359 The poster boy for the death penalty is Kenneth Allen McDuff. "
Dittos on this. And a perfect rebuttal to #31. Killed 5 more people after he was released from prison.
The 'power over life and death' is not in the State alone.
The power of life and death resides in the State ANYWAY. By not punishing killers enough, you may be at risk and a single slow response by the cops to death yourself. Dont like the state going to war? Well, losing wars and getting people killed by enemies is just another way to die.
"359 The poster boy for the death penalty is Kenneth Allen McDuff. "
Dittos on this. And a perfect rebuttal to #31. Killed 5 more people after he was released from prison.
The 'power over life and death' is not in the State alone.
Posted by: Obama Lied Jobs Died at April 05, 2014 02:18 PM (wT9UL)
371
" 360
355 If anything I feel like the system is two lenient. I don't know
how many of you frequent the ONT, but Thanksgiving 2012, my wife's
two-year old cousin was beaten to death by his mom's boyfriend. Talked
about it at length back then. The coroner at the trial said that the
nature of his injuries were consistent with being in a high-speed car
accident they were so bad. Bastard copped a plea, got sentenced to 28
years, then announced to the judge he was appealing because he didn't
feel that he got adequate representation. Even if he doesn't succeed in
his appeal he'll be eligible for parole in 11 years."
People need to understand that:
a) that is typical in the justice system. And that
b) the death penalty is another 'backstop' to help prosecutors get scum to cop a plea to a lesser sentence.
15,000 innocents are killed by murderers each year. That is hundreds each day. Only a tiny fraction of the scum who kill others are subject to the punishment that is equal to the crime. yes, the system is too lenient. He destroyed a life just starting and his punishment is 11 year stay at Club StatePen.
And old Jewish proverb says:
"To be merciful to the cruel, is to be cruel to the innocent."
People need to understand that:
a) that is typical in the justice system. And that
b) the death penalty is another 'backstop' to help prosecutors get scum to cop a plea to a lesser sentence.
15,000 innocents are killed by murderers each year. That is hundreds each day. Only a tiny fraction of the scum who kill others are subject to the punishment that is equal to the crime. yes, the system is too lenient. He destroyed a life just starting and his punishment is 11 year stay at Club StatePen.
And old Jewish proverb says:
"To be merciful to the cruel, is to be cruel to the innocent."
Posted by: Obama Lied Jobs Died at April 05, 2014 02:28 PM (wT9UL)
372
353
If I believed that the justice system was perfect and nobody ever was
convicted falsely, I would be in favor of the death penalty for many
crimes."
Well, with DNA and modern forensics, it's more accurate than ever.
Of course, it cant get every guilty-as-sin murderer convicted (OJ thats you).
but the idea that it would be a good idea to stop executing the less than 1% of murderers who are thusly convicted of murder is ... weird. Because what the implication is, is that 99 out of 100 wrong convictions are in the 'not death penalty' category.
Well, with DNA and modern forensics, it's more accurate than ever.
Of course, it cant get every guilty-as-sin murderer convicted (OJ thats you).
but the idea that it would be a good idea to stop executing the less than 1% of murderers who are thusly convicted of murder is ... weird. Because what the implication is, is that 99 out of 100 wrong convictions are in the 'not death penalty' category.
Posted by: Obama Lied Jobs Died at April 05, 2014 02:35 PM (wT9UL)
373
After having worked in two maximum security prisons in two different states. I can see both sides of this issue. Giving someone a life sentence, an actual life sentence w/o parole, to me is worse than the death penalty. These scum then have to go their entire life in the joint which is no picnic. On the other hand, when someone is given a life sentence with a chance of parole they will normally do anywhere from 7-15 years and then they are back into society. This is where I would say the death penalty is the answer.
Then you have to figure the costs associated with coddling these scum for life along with the costs of the never ending appeals.
With the inception of DNA testing I can see where the need for the death penalty diminishes a little as there have been a number of poor fools who have been falsely convicted due to DNA results. However, most of these people normally have a long history of criminal behavior and should be locked up anyway.
Just my two cents worth.
Then you have to figure the costs associated with coddling these scum for life along with the costs of the never ending appeals.
With the inception of DNA testing I can see where the need for the death penalty diminishes a little as there have been a number of poor fools who have been falsely convicted due to DNA results. However, most of these people normally have a long history of criminal behavior and should be locked up anyway.
Just my two cents worth.
Posted by: cemoto at April 05, 2014 02:41 PM (BD4BL)
374
... asked a Libertarian I admired and he said "Easy: Privatize it."
"How the hell do you privatize capital punishment? " I asked
"The criminal should be executed at the scene of the attempted crime, by a private citizen defending himself or others, preferably with a gun, and he should be protected from prosecution or civil suits."..."
That is stupid and silly. Sure, concealed carry can stop *some* crime, but not all of it. Not the woman who drowns her kids in a bathtub. Not the crazed guy who shoots up a mall at random (until stopped by a cop or armed civilian).
The punishment for a man molesting and killing little girls is .... nothing then, since the weak cannot defend themselves. You cannot privatize the protection of the weakest, its why the strong create Govt in the first place, that is where libertarian is an epic fail.
"15,000 innocents are killed by murderers each year. That is hundreds each day."
ooops. 1200 month, 300 hundred each week, 40 per day.
"How the hell do you privatize capital punishment? " I asked
"The criminal should be executed at the scene of the attempted crime, by a private citizen defending himself or others, preferably with a gun, and he should be protected from prosecution or civil suits."..."
That is stupid and silly. Sure, concealed carry can stop *some* crime, but not all of it. Not the woman who drowns her kids in a bathtub. Not the crazed guy who shoots up a mall at random (until stopped by a cop or armed civilian).
The punishment for a man molesting and killing little girls is .... nothing then, since the weak cannot defend themselves. You cannot privatize the protection of the weakest, its why the strong create Govt in the first place, that is where libertarian is an epic fail.
"15,000 innocents are killed by murderers each year. That is hundreds each day."
ooops. 1200 month, 300 hundred each week, 40 per day.
Posted by: Obama Lied Jobs Died at April 05, 2014 02:42 PM (wT9UL)
375
"100
Death penalty opponents love to point out that it costs more, in terms
of appeals, etc, to execute a person than it costs to incarcerate them
for life. True enough. However, I guarantee that if we abolished the
death penalty, all of that money being spent on death penalty appeals
would instantly be shifted into fighting sentences of life without
parole."
True that.
A more just society would have fewer laws enforced more strictly.
True that.
A more just society would have fewer laws enforced more strictly.
Posted by: Obama Lied Jobs Died at April 05, 2014 02:44 PM (wT9UL)
376
"40
The Innocence Project does good work, usually with DNA. You will note,
however, that the vast majority of cases they overturn are rape cases,
because of DNA technology which was not around when most of those errant
convictions occurred. The murderers I listed above all confessed.
There was no question, at all, as to their guilt."
Eyewitness evidence is notoriously bad but deceptively appealling to juries. If a woman says 'that man raped me' why wouldnt a jury believe it? But there's a 20%+ chance thats either a lie or a mistake.
For those reasons, murder convictions require more physical and other evidence (the victim isnt there to testify). Blood evidence has always been better. Not as good as DNA, but gets you close. For those reasons, I think false conviction rate in murders is a lot less.
Eyewitness evidence is notoriously bad but deceptively appealling to juries. If a woman says 'that man raped me' why wouldnt a jury believe it? But there's a 20%+ chance thats either a lie or a mistake.
For those reasons, murder convictions require more physical and other evidence (the victim isnt there to testify). Blood evidence has always been better. Not as good as DNA, but gets you close. For those reasons, I think false conviction rate in murders is a lot less.
Posted by: Obama Lied Jobs Died at April 05, 2014 02:48 PM (wT9UL)
377
wow, this thread is still alive
and Breitbart.com is still down...
Posted by: artisanal 'ette at April 05, 2014 02:49 PM (IXrOn)
378
"I agree. And as The Political Hat pointed out, lethal injection is
how we put down our beloved pets to end their suffering. That's much
too good for murderers."
That's small minded. Who care's about 'too good'? you're killing someone and there isn't torture or pain on the punishment menu. Just make it quick.
What's reliable, not messy and reasonably easy to administer without high cost.
Either an execution where the bullet goes through the back of the head, or lethal injection, fits the bill. the injection is less cleanup for the janitors, though.
That's small minded. Who care's about 'too good'? you're killing someone and there isn't torture or pain on the punishment menu. Just make it quick.
What's reliable, not messy and reasonably easy to administer without high cost.
Either an execution where the bullet goes through the back of the head, or lethal injection, fits the bill. the injection is less cleanup for the janitors, though.
Posted by: Obama Lied Jobs Died at April 05, 2014 02:52 PM (wT9UL)
379
Utah retained firing squads due to the now dormant Mormon principle of blood atonement. Utah has abandoned firing squads for anyone convicted in the future unless lethal injection is found un-Constitutional. Those who were convicted while firing squad was an option still have the right to die by that method. Mostly they choose to do so for the attention it gains them.
Posted by: Brother Brigham at April 05, 2014 03:01 PM (J5oUK)
380
It's easy to be against the death penalty when no one you love has been raped and murdered by an evil human being. I'm all for taking evil out of the world.
Posted by: PBJ89 at April 05, 2014 05:37 PM (r1du+)
381
-Obama Lied Jobs Died
Well obviously it's not perfect solution and I give it as an answer semi-jokingly. I do want greater protection for people who defend themselves with deadly force, (that's why I was so appalled by the whole Zimmerman blow-up, ) and recognize Second Amendment rights. I, like a lot of small government people, are just wary of the government having that kind of power.
Posted by: Serena at April 05, 2014 05:41 PM (M33Mf)
382
My gripe with the death penalty isn't the penalty itself, but the fallibility of our legal system.
DNA evidence has shown that there are many people who have been convicted of crimes they did not commit.
A conviction can be overturned, and the wrongly convicted person compensated financially.
There is no way to bring back the dead.
I also don't really see what difference there is (in terms of the severity of punishment) between someone spending their entire life locked up with horribly vicious quasi-sentient humanoids under horrible conditions, and then croaking in a prison hospital of old age, and someone being strapped to a gurney.
There are much worse things you can do to someone than simply kill them.
DNA evidence has shown that there are many people who have been convicted of crimes they did not commit.
A conviction can be overturned, and the wrongly convicted person compensated financially.
There is no way to bring back the dead.
I also don't really see what difference there is (in terms of the severity of punishment) between someone spending their entire life locked up with horribly vicious quasi-sentient humanoids under horrible conditions, and then croaking in a prison hospital of old age, and someone being strapped to a gurney.
There are much worse things you can do to someone than simply kill them.
Posted by: Lee Reynolds at April 06, 2014 01:51 AM (0bC+U)
383
People, can we get an express line opened up here!
Posted by: R. Aurum Tar at April 06, 2014 06:35 AM (IeB/h)
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Posted by: Smith the Insane at April 05, 2014 05:31 AM (aK1xA)