1 Ah Dave, I remember.  But at least that slimy Nazi is dead now, unlike the Ft Hood Muzzie and the 9-11 Muzzie down in GITMO.

2 And the government has only grown more hostile toward American citizens.

3 We are all Americans. Even federal employees.

4 Since I'll be busy this weekend, here is a preemptive Happy Easter to everyone! http://politicalhat.com/?p=5598

5 Thanks for reminding me of this horrific crime and we will include the folks of Oklahoma City in our Easter prayers. Especially the first responders who had to wend their way through the carnage and the families of the victims.

6 WeirdDave and I have been stomped.

7 Perhaps one day we will find out if there truly was a third guy in the mix. The suspected Iraqi agent.

8 It was a Wednesday, and I was attending a week long Netware 3.11 administrator class in Jacksonville, FL. I was the admin for my command's (FACSFACJAX) LAN. These were the days long before NMCI and shit.

9 7 Perhaps one day we will find out if there truly was a third guy in the mix. The suspected Iraqi agent. I concur.

10 9 Maybe our current USAG. He has enough contempt for USA

11 WeirdDave and I have been stomped. Posted by: Y-not ------------------ And yet, we love you anyhow.

12 3 We are all Americans. Even federal employees. Posted by: packsoldier at April 19, 2014 10:28 AM (QJGAX) A nice thought. Do you think the loyalist should have been forgiven for pledging their loyalty to the King? Same theory.

13 Y-Not I'll bump your post up in a bit, I was trying to get this done at the hour of the thing, my bad

14 DD#2 and #3 were the same age as those two little brothers who were killed in the blast. I cried for a solid week. That picture of the firefighter carrying that little girl's body still resonates.

15 Lent's over in 90 minutes, Y Not is making a drink.

16 The Oklahoma City Memorial is one of the most touching memorials I've ever seen. It ranks up there with the Vietnam Memorial. In one room there are glass boxes, each containing a picture of a victim & some little momento. One was for a little boy, about 4 with Power Rangers action figures..my knees went weak & I sank to the floor, crying. My grandson was about 4 & loved nothing more than his Spider-Man figures. It broke my heart. It still brings tears to my eyes to think about it.

17 Let us also remember this: Bill and Hillary Clinton should be in prison for crimes against humanity for what they did to their fellow citizens at Waco, TX, on April 19, 1993. The Waco Massacre and church burning (it was not a “compound,” it was their church),was the most brutal, heinous violation of civil, human and Constitutional rights in this nation's history. Innocent men, women and children were attacked with tanks, poison gas (CS gas turns to cyanide when heated) and burned alive. Those who ran from the church were machine-gunned as documented in the movie "Waco, The Rules of Engagement." If you doubt how bad this was consider that you never hear the left stream media talk about it. They want it erased from history but this memorial site will remain forever: www . wizardsofaz . com/waco/waco2 . html And if that weren't bad enough, Clinton's thugs then stuck a machine gun in the face of a 5 year old boy and sent him to the communist gulag known as Cuba: www . therealcuba . com/elian_gonzalez . htm Let's hope Clinton isn't teaching President Prompter too many of his old tricks! Here is a list of the children murdered at Waco: Lisa Martin 13, Sheila Martin, Jr. 15, Rachel Sylvia 12, Hollywood Sylvia 1, Joseph Martinez 8, Abigail Martinez 11, Crystal Martinez 3 Isaiah Martinez 4, Audrey Martinez 13, Melissa Morrison 6, Chanel Andrade 1, Cyrus Koresh 8 Star Koresh 6, Bobbie Lane Koresh 2, Dayland Gent 3, Page Gent 1, Mayanah Schneider 2, Startle Summers 1, Serenity Jones 4, Chica Jones 2, Little One Jones 2

18 Kind of inappropriate to be memorializing McVeigh's motivation here Devan.

19 I have no doubt about foriegn agent involvement. Clinton was president and his reluctance to stand up to muzzies was made clear with his refusal to take bil laden when offered to him. And bl had already bombed WTC once, with a car bomb.

20 The part that got to me is that McVeigh went there before the explosion and watched the little kids playing in the daycare.

21 Nip Sip So it's OK to murder your fellow citizens who work for the government?

22 McVeigh was a heartless bastard. *spit*

23 And can leftists please stop with the horrific suggestion that McVeigh was a practicing Catholic; He simply was not. Period.

24 21 Nip Sip So it's OK to murder your fellow citizens who work for the government? Posted by: packsoldier at April 19, 2014 10:46 AM (QJGAX) No, the analogy did not come out right. I meant that we should not blindly accept the action of government employees, who increasing seem to believe they are the new "Kings".

25

Oklahoma City stands alone here.  When you bring up Waco you are justifying what this idiot did in Ok City.  Nothing justifies what this idiot did in Ok City.  Much like nothing justifies what those idiots did on 9-11.

26 Get well soon Mr. Malor...

and yeah OKC was horrible of course the left blames the entire right for it....

and uh you can't blame Islam  for 9/11

27 3 packsoldier at April 19, 2014 10:28 AM (QJGAX)

No they're Americans- we're terrorists ask a DHS or LAPD type

28 Lexington and Concord. THE most significant event of this day in our history. You forget, whitewash and/or rewrite history at your peril.

29 20 Chief Pug at April 19, 2014 10:43 AM (8c12T)

He was a monster and I hope he is burning in hell....

that said Uncle Jan Reno killed some babies in Texas IIRC

30 25 Truck Monkey, Gruntled New Business Owner at April 19, 2014 10:49 AM (jucos)

That's interesting, of course I was taught history is a set of interlocking events...

so WTF do I know?

31 25 Oklahoma City stands alone here. When you bring up Waco you are justifying what this idiot did in Ok City. Nothing justifies what this idiot did in Ok City. Much like nothing justifies what those idiots did on 9-11. Posted by: Truck Monkey, Gruntled New Business Owner at April 19, 2014 10:49 AM (jucos) Well, they are all examples of mass murder.

32 31 Insomniac at April 19, 2014 11:01 AM (NtHdR)

No, no...Waco and Ruby Ridge were just misunderstandings and besides that trash is not as worthy of remembrance or reflection as the superhero Civil Servants in OKC

33 What I remember most about the OKC bombing was that Clinton decided "never let a crisis go to waste" and blamed Rush Limbaugh and other conservatives for "creating the atmosphere of hate". It was one of the left's many "because shut up" hammers they used, and McVeigh is brought up any time someone criticizes the ever expanding ever controlling government That said, prayers to the survivors and the families of those killed, and may McVeigh be feeling Satan's barbed cock

34 I meant that we should not blindly accept the action of government employees, who increasing seem to believe they are the new "Kings". Posted by: Nip Sip at April 19, 2014 10:48 AM (0FSuD) I don't see what that has do with the Oklahoma City bombing?

35 speaking of slaughters on 19 April....

Uh are we not reflecting on Tspeedbump and Tflashbang this week?

admittedly I went to Folly Beach on the 15th so maybe I missed it...

36 I have a real problem with the date of the OKC bombing. It happened on my mother's birthday. Kinda wrecked what should be a time of good memories. Also on this date the American revolutionary war started, Grace Kelly married the Prince of Monaco, and it's Maria Sharapova's birthday. Always important to look at some of the good things that happened on bad days.

37 34 Nevergiveup at April 19, 2014 11:04 AM (t3UFN)

You don't?

Okay take all the left's bullshit anti-war anti US-centric foreign policy pap and apply it to the civil service here at home.

"That much power without restraint makes enemies of the little nations"

"you can't inflict your will at gunpoint"...

the Feds have little restraint and have proven you can inflict your will at gunpoint.

38 Nip Slip

We have been trying to clarify this ...Why is lent over in 90 minutes? My husband gave up drinking for lent and I need him to start drinking again ASAP. I thought lent ended at the beginning of the Easter Vigil which cannot occur to after sunset. Right?

39 On a lighter note. If the grandkid ever takes a permanent marker to the monitor(s) and it sits there annoying you for two or three days , it can be wiped away with Off, mosquito spray in 4 seconds.

40 Come on Nip Sip--amongst Federal employees you've got the drones--try dealing with some low level IRS employees (who will be administering your health insurance in future) who can barely figure out how to find their desk in the morning--and then you've got the players. Like Lois Lerner. Once you get up to the GS 15 level or thereabouts you'll find a lot of little perfumed political princes who "know which way the wind is blowing" and sure as hell want to please their masters. The drones are as innocent as they are dumb. But all of that should be put off to the side while we reflect upon the Oklahoma City bombing. A lot of innocent people died to no good purpose.

41

Garth Brooks' amazing tribute:

 

http://vimeo.com/8716214

 

42 Don't forget tomorrow is Hitler's birthday, right guys?

43 From "The Things Golfman's Wife Has Never Said" Department. "and I need him to start drinking again ASAP".

44 39 On a lighter note. If the grandkid ever takes a permanent marker to the monitor(s) and it sits there annoying you for two or three days , it can be wiped away with Off, mosquito spray in 4 seconds. Posted by: Up With People at April 19, 2014 11:08 AM (pf+hU) I think plain alcohol does the trick as well, if you're not interested in making your monitor mosquito repellent.

45 39 Up With People at April 19, 2014 11:08 AM (pf+hU)

fun with chemistry.....

of course a lot of newer monitors will have their film over the screen damaged by that home remedy...

I'm gonna pull the fade I have little nice to add, I am gonna go in the conservative corner of shame

46 Posted by: It's a big week for right wing lunatics! at April 19, 2014 11:09 AM (N/cFh) Go fuck yourself.

47 42 It's a big week for right wing lunatics! at April 19, 2014 11:09 AM (N/cFh)

Yup...we have a lot of self-flagellatin' to do this month...

Peace out campers.

48 it can be wiped away with Off, mosquito spray in 4 seconds.[/i} Did not know that.

49 Shit

50 Dammit! So close!

51 Posted by: Insomniac at April 19, 2014 11:10 AM (NtHdR) Lefties always gotta blame everyone else. National Socialism, srsly.

52 Hitler was just like Obama, a Socialist.  Look up the full name of the Nazi Party.

53 Monitor immune to west nile virus. Not sure about east nile though. Thats all I got till I finish this 11 Am beer

54 McVeigh was heartless, stupid and a tool. I think he had some revelation about this which is why he told his lawyers to stop appealing his death sentence.

55 The moral equivalence argument just makes every action justified.  We are responsible for Hitler..... Because of the treaty after WWI that so crippled Germany.  That is all I am saying.  Those people in OK City had nothing to do with Waco.  Nothing.  Am I to believe that it is ok that they were wiped out because the symbolized the federal government?  Really?  A 2 year old in a day care center is a justified target because of Waco?  I am not buying it.  I will never buy it. 

56 And lets also remember why the British were out early this morning: to confiscate Colonials guns and powder. Mikey Bloomberg would have been so proud!

57 I think plain alcohol does the trick as well, if you're not interested in making your monitor mosquito repellent. What's the downside of your monitor repelling mosquitos?

58 40 Comanche Voter at April 19, 2014 11:09 AM (wdHk6)

Very much so.

It should go without saying that the actions of OKC's bombing were loathsome- nobody here argued McVeigh should not be killed.

What rankles is the constant enforced tugging of the forelock for these dead when nobody reflects on the Government's slaughtered innocents.

Those kids are a tragedy, so were the Davidian children so was the Weaver family so was the Dorner duckhunt near victims....

McVeigh is dead and Hasan lives

59 44  I think plain alcohol does the trick as well, if you're not interested in making your monitor mosquito repellent.

Posted by: ConservativeMonster at April 19, 2014 11:10 AM (M9BzG)

If you have a flat screen monitor do NOT use alcohol or Windex (alcohol based).  It will etch the screen.

60 51 Lefties always gotta blame everyone else. National Socialism, srsly. Posted by: ConservativeMonster at April 19, 2014 11:13 AM (M9BzG) They like to gloss over that. They're in denial about how much overlap there is between modern progressivism and Hitler's domestic policies.

61 Perhaps one day we will find out if there truly was a third guy in the mix. Yeah, the Islam connection here is tantalizing, if a bit nebulous.

62 55 Truck Monkey, Gruntled New Business Owner at April 19, 2014 11:13 AM (jucos)

There's a decided difference between embracing actors' morality and acknowledging what led to sequences of events Truck Monkey.

It was uh sorta my field for a bit.

Like I said y'all have a good day.

Let me join in the 120 second cleansing ritual....

Fuck McVeigh, fuck McVeigh, fuck McVeigh fuck McVeigh....

thing is absent Beijing Billy's BATF cook out those kids would probably have been alive today.

That's the historic reality.

63 56 And lets also remember why the British were out early this morning: to confiscate Colonials guns and powder. Mikey Bloomberg would have been so proud!

Posted by: Devan at April 19, 2014 11:14 AM (mJA2R)

See my this day in history post for today.

http://minx.cc/?blog=86&post=348647#c22043158

64 It's a big week for right wing lunatics! at April 19, 2014 11:09 AM (N/cFh) ------------- I'm sure your party, headed by King Barack, will be celebrating and reading Mein Kampf tomorrow. GFY.,

65 I think plain alcohol does the trick as well (hick.........hick) Yessirreeeee

66 The thing I'll always remember about how I first heard about OKC is the words, "It's on every channel." This was my sister-in-law speaking to my brother, in a cultural shorthand that said this must be something really important. I don't know if the same thing is possible today with the zillion channel cable/satellite systems but back then that sentence was cause for alarm.

67 I remember when that happened I thought the Iraqis did it for revenge.

68 I thought Islam was just getting their panties on in 1995. NM, I just wanted to say panties.

69 I'm really uncomfortable with all these comparisons of obama to Hitler. No one hates obama more than I do, but comparing him to Hitler in any way, no matter what the justification or logic is just damn foolish and takes away from any argument your making

70 25 Oklahoma City stands alone here. When you bring up Waco you are justifying what this idiot did in Ok City. Nothing justifies what this idiot did in Ok City. Much like nothing justifies what those idiots did on 9-11. Posted by: Truck Monkey, Gruntled New Business Owner at April 19, 2014 10:49 AM (jucos) Just because a tool like McVeigh used Waco to "justify" killing even more children, it doesn't mean that the logic is sound. And bringing it up points to the fact that McVeigh paid the earthly price for his murders, but governmental leaders have not for theirs. Not that I'm suggest that. (Hi NSA!) BTW, it's interesting that a goodly portion of the Waco Church were black. The media loves to portray them as a sect of white supremacy. Considering that makes me wonder if Waco was McVeigh's real motive.

71 Just for you, Truck, cause I don't care what you're buying: Innocent men, women and children were attacked with tanks, poison gas (CS gas turns to cyanide when heated) and burned alive. Those who ran from the church were machine-gunned as documented in the movie "Waco, The Rules of Engagement." If you doubt how bad this was consider that you never hear the left stream media talk about it. They want it erased from history but this memorial site will remain forever: www.wizardsofaz.com/waco/waco2.html

72 I don't know if the same thing is possible today with the zillion channel cable/satellite systems but back then that sentence was cause for alarm. 9/11 was into the zillion channel era and it wasn't *everywhere*, but it was on a lot of channels. I recall pretty much everything NBC owned was showing NBC News.

73 Innocent men, women and children were attacked with tanks, poison gas (CS gas turns to cyanide when heated) and burned alive. ??? They weren't all innocent, someone was firing back at those Federal Agents with bullets?

74 Go fuck yourself. Posted by: Insomniac at April 19, 2014 11:10 AM (NtHdR) That sock was sarcasm, directed at those idiots in the MSM who actually said the exact same thing, but seriously, after Boston last year. Sorry if that didn't come through clearly.

75 My main problem is that McVeighs actions were a one off and it has been usesd as a justification for not profiling muslims. You can't profile muslims, because McVeigh. McVeigh was a monster and the damage he wrought has gone far beyond his despicable act.

76 I was on the phone phone with a client in Oklahoma City. I heard what sounded like a thud and she told me she just heard a big boom and felt the ground shake. It was a terrible day. I still think there is more to this than we know. The government changed their stories too many times.

77  70 baldilocks at April 19, 2014 11:22 AM (36Rjy)

correct...Timothy McVeigh paid for his sins and they WERE sins...the BATF gents and Uncle Jan uh got pensions.

78 73  Nevergiveup at April 19, 2014 11:24 AM (t3UFN)

Right...so I as a CCW bearer some years would have been totes justified in defensive carry situation gunning down everyone...

yeah that's how things woprk for the non Federales.

I surrender NGU.

79 They weren't all innocent, someone was firing back at those Federal Agents with bullets? Posted by: Nevergiveup at April 19, 2014 11:24 AM (t3UFN) You mean they weren't all defenseless.

80 Posted by: Weirddave at April 19, 2014 11:25 AM (N/cFh) Heh, Poe's law.

81 You can't profile muslims, because McVeigh. And now because of that Muslim convert in Kansas who tried to shoot at motorists on a highway.

82 71 Devan at April 19, 2014 11:23 AM (mJA2R)

Conventional wisdom is hard to overcome....

since the media doesn't talk about Waco and Ruby Ridge they never happened...

although if the Feds were 100% justified why did they make Randy Weaver a millionaire?

83 69  No one hates obama more than I do, but comparing him to Hitler in any way, no matter what the justification or logic is just damn foolish and takes away from any argument your making

Posted by: Nevergiveup at April 19, 2014 11:22 AM (t3UFN)

The comparison lies in the fact that they were both socialists/communists.

84 81 Ian S. at April 19, 2014 11:29 AM (102Hx)

That's right...you can't blame a whole religion for the actions of a few madmen....

but a whole political ideology however...

85

Posted by: Devan at April 19, 2014 11:23 AM (mJA2R)

____________

Ok, I get it.  Waco was bad.  That means OK City is justified.... because FEDERAL GOVERNMENT.  Those kids in the daycare that day that were crushed by the upper floors of the building perfectly symbolized the federal government to me.  There.... I feel better.  You brought up Waco in response to a post about OK City.  Hence the moral equivalence argument.  There is no moral equivalence here.  See my point?

86 The comparison lies in the fact that they were both socialists/communists. And in that Obama is apparently working towards getting Israel nuked.

87 You mean they weren't all defenseless. Posted by: baldilocks at April 19, 2014 11:29 AM (36Rjy) Let's not make Koresh and his "people" out to be saints. There was child abuse going on there, underage sex, and G-D knows what else. I am not holding the Federal Government blameless in that fiasco, but neither am I absolving the other side of blame either.

88 I have a real problem with the date of the OKC bombing. It happened on my mother's birthday. *** Oddly enough, today is also the birthday of my mother (may she rest in peace). I never made the connection previously until I read your comment above. I have an odd ability of compartmentalizing things in my mind to avoid the type of association you describe. I think I'll leave it at saying a prayer for innocent lives lost. It makes me sad that commenters feel a need to crap all over a thread. Thanks DiT

89 The comparison lies in the fact that they were both socialists/communists. Posted by: Vic at April 19, 2014 11:30 AM (T2V/1) Yeah I get your point vic, but using Hitler's name just muddies the water. You can make your point in other ways.

90 83 Vic at April 19, 2014 11:30 AM (T2V/1)

Who had little use for the rule of law...

but nice singing voices with much extolled by the media significant others.

http://tinyurl.com/nb4axuk

Washington Times....

Obama signs Ted Cruz bill into law, but says he won't enforce it

President Obama on Friday signed into law a bill authored by Texas Republican Sen. Ted Cruz that would bar an Iranian diplomat from entering the United States, but immediately issued a statement saying he won't enforce it.

we're about one enabling act away

91 69 I'm really uncomfortable with all these comparisons of obama to Hitler. No one hates obama more than I do, but comparing him to Hitler in any way, no matter what the justification or logic is just damn foolish and takes away from any argument your making Posted by: Nevergiveup at April 19, 2014 11:22 AM (t3UFN) But you will agree that Obama is a lot like Eva Braun, no???

92 70  BTW, it's interesting that a goodly portion of the Waco Church were black. The media loves to portray them as a sect of white supremacy. Considering that makes me wonder if Waco was McVeigh's real motive.

Posted by: baldilocks at April 19, 2014 11:22 AM (36Rjy)

It is rarely mentioned that his car had neo-Nazi hate literature in it.  Of course to the liberals, Nazi is "right wing".

93 But you will agree that Obama is a lot like Eva Braun, no??? They both had sex with men?

94 We had just moved the family to Oklahoma from Chicago one year before. Our neighbor asked had I heard about the explosion in OKC? I tuned in to TV; Tulsa channel was carrying OKC channel. I remember, right at the first, the sketches of John Doe the Iraqi. The reports of multiple bombs still in the building. The latter may have been fog of war, the former...? And the babies...! I do remember, after watching the news a while, walking out and looking up at that beautiful blue Oklahoma morning sky, so like today, just wondering that anyone would do this. One consideration for our relocation was, we were living in a Major Target City and I had a funny feeling the WTC bombing was just a beginning. Then the worst terrorist attack to date happens 90 miles down the road. Felt a little like that Hiroshima survivor who thought the mushroom cloud had followed him home to Nagasaki. That friend of McVeigh's who knew but didn't tell? I still wonder if he knows more than he's told. Or, anyway, than we know about. There are mysteries....

95 87 Nevergiveup at April 19, 2014 11:31 AM (t3UFN)

Yeah I missed the trial that Eric "My People" Holder is so hot to trot to give to non-citizens in 'Gitmo...

also BATF's mission statement and warrants read about the whole enchilada there?

The allegations of abuse and stupid Cult tricks were deployed to let people bargain with watching Armored Combat Engineer Vehicle half-tracks doing donuts on dead people NGU.

"What law?"

96 Let's not make Koresh and his "people" out to be saints. There was child abuse going on there ***** Yes, the people who burned them alive told us so.

97 anyway for real...

have a day y'all...

we've earned it.....

wanna know why we get our clocks cleaned by the left?

We play along with their fiddler always setting the dance card.

98 76 It was a terrible day. I still think there is more to this than we know. The government changed their stories too many times. Posted by: Michael the Hobbit at April 19, 2014 11:26 AM (oWhIO) I agree. I haven't read Jayna Davis' book, but I have heard her interviewed on the radio. In the first few hours, they were looking for a man of "Middle Eastern appearance", then said, "Whoops! Never mind. Forget we said anything." McVeigh and Nichols apparently went to the Phillippines for some reason. That's a little hard to explain in the context of purely domestic terrorism. I was struck by how quickly McVeigh was executed. Most death penalty cases drag on for years. I recall how Clinton wasted no time blaming "hate radio" for the bombing. This incident seemed to have originated the media's template of always looking for a "right-wing" or "anti-government" explanation for every bombing or shooting. Prior to that, I remember that everybody used to assume Muslim involvement. The whole thing smells on so many levels.

99 My windows were shaking when it happened and we lived west of Rockwell. That's at least 7 or 8 miles away. We'd just moved to OKC from San Diego a couple weeks earlier. My wife was supposed to be downtown that morning for an errand, but thankfully she was running late. We didn't have a tv set and I worked nights (sleeping days) so I didn't even realize it had happened in OKC until I got to work. I heard them talking about it on the radio driving in, but since the assumption was that anybody listening knew where it happened they never mentioned OKC while I listened.

100 Truck Monkey, no offense, but you're the only one here suggesting that Waco justifies OKC by the very mention of the former. They are being mentioned together *here* because of the perps attacked the victims--including many children--for the same (non-existent) reasons. One perp has paid; the other(s) have not. (I take comfort that God will hook them up.) None of the victims of either attack deserved what they got. Period.

101 Looks like you got your flame war here Vic.

102 But you will agree that Obama is a lot like Eva Braun, no??? Posted by: Chief Pug at April 19, 2014 11:33 AM (8c12T) Well yeah I got no problem with that

103 http://tinyurl.com/k9qmljd

"What Law?"

Big Guns-Syrian Rebels get advances ammo from US 

FoxNews...

the Feds work for the other team

104 I remember thinking about all of those young parents who had lost their children and would never be able to spend any more moments with them, then asking myself if the same thing were to happen to my children if I could honestly say that I had spent as much time with them as possible and said "I love you" to them often enough. OKC changed my life in a very profound way.

105 Ok please Waco mentioners. Stop it. Now

106 What's the downside of your monitor repelling mosquitos? Posted by: Ian ---------------- They begin to look for other targets of opportunity.

107 And why exactly is the media pushing the oaklahoma city bombing into the public consciousness a full year before its 20th anniversary? These fuckers are up to something.

108 105 Dave in Texas at April 19, 2014 11:41 AM (l7DqC)

right-o Dave...

109 Yes, the people who burned them alive told us so. Posted by: Dept. Of Acuracy at April 19, 2014 11:36 AM (/vO0r) No, people who had defected from that cult told us so. I am not defending the poor planning by the Feds or their over reaction but at the same time I am not overlooking the fact that Koresh was an evil human being

110 98  I was struck by how quickly McVeigh was executed. Most death penalty cases drag on for years.


Posted by: rickl at April 19, 2014 11:39 AM (sdi6R)


He was executed so quickly because he requested it and they accommodated him.

111 I too am tired of a lot of this moral equivalency. You kill kids and innocents? Trash deserving of the greatest punishment imaginable. Left. Right. Christian. Muslim. All the same. Any group, non-military, that feels the need to cover their faces because they are so proud of what they're doing too.

112

Posted by: baldilocks at April 19, 2014 11:39 AM (36Rjy)

____________

Amen and amen.  I see what you are saying and I didn't mean to cause sturm and drang.  Maybe I read too much into what Devan was saying.  Sorry If I offended anyone.  On a lighter note.  The same people that brought you Ruby Ridge, Waco, and Elion Gonzalez will soon control our healthcare! 

113 The specific targeting and killing of babies and little kids is evil and wicked. I don't care who you say you are or who you say you represent. It's vile. May God wipe away every tear from their eyes.

114 101 Looks like you got your flame war here Vic.

Posted by: Weirddave at April 19, 2014 11:39 AM (N/cFh)

Ironic isn't it. 

BTW while going through the news sites for links this morning I noted another church in TX that had been charged with child abuse, forced marriage, multiple wives etc.  The court through out the child abuse charges due to lack of evidence so the State used the "this property did evil law"  and confiscated the church and 1600 acres of land.

So it sort of makes you wonder about the "child abuse" charges at Waco.

115

Er, an American hating leftist, Gore Vidal, called McVeigh "a darling boy."

 

Now they're together in hell.

And the literary left completely glossed over Vidal's moral rottenness when Vidal finally croaked.

116 107 Kreplach at April 19, 2014 11:42 AM (OCBPC)

Nah their usual tricks....

Look it is not like they have campfire meetings over this since Ezra "Juicy JuiceBox" got outed for overtly conspiring on shading news they just stick shit out there day after day year after year 'til "everyone knows"...

the event that shan't be mentioned never is but this one...

to LIV OKC is a direct action that we all here secretly applaud and Waco was a glider company who built gliders for D-Day or is the home of Baylor....

You can't escape the moonbat noise machine...

not here...probably not at Tepid...most definitely not at MSLSD or CNN....

I'm old enough I remember when American arming of overseas' groups pissed leftists types off...

"well when Barry does it it is okay"....

Leftism is all about simply agreeing with what their side does and OUR side acting like we're in bed with anything other than raving lunatics across the aisle is what has enabled the death of the Republic.

117 112 Truck Monkey, Gruntled New Business Owner at April 19, 2014 11:43 AM (jucos)

and that is the point TruckMonkey sincerely....

I am not defending McVeigh I abhor what he did, I am enraged by the antics of the left in pretending like I am personally culpable for OKC....

God knows I have made way too many posts and several on this topic going over the hypocrisy involved on a lot of people's parts.

I suspect all the allegations against Koresh were true, but I am amazed that nobody on the right can be bothered to point out the elephant in the democrat living room of the mad dash to give Jihadi Jim his day in a US court and the sweeping under the rug of the several cases of Democrat led extra-judicial retirement against US citizens let alone foreigners.

I'm done on this...I've cleaned the living room I am heading to the kitchen.

Hope biz is going well and the "non-existent" inflation onfuel is treating you well.

118 @116 Remeber when the greek midget brought up abortion out of the blue at a that debate? These fuckers are planning something for the midterms. There is litterally no reason for the media to be bringing up waco at this time - NONE!

119 Remember how Clinton and the MFM tried to pin the blame on Limbaugh?   I'll never forget the scumbag cartoonist who traced the pic of the firefighter holding the dead girl in his arms and added the thought balloon "Damn talk radio."

Of course the firefighter turned out to be a Dittohead and called Limbaugh's show the next day, exposing the lie.

120

Inflation?  What inflation?  Food and fuel don't count.

121 74 Go fuck yourself. Posted by: Insomniac at April 19, 2014 11:10 AM (NtHdR) That sock was sarcasm, directed at those idiots in the MSM who actually said the exact same thing, but seriously, after Boston last year. Sorry if that didn't come through clearly. Posted by: Weirddave at April 19, 2014 11:25 AM (N/cFh) Got it. Thought it was some dickhead troll. Sorry for the unintentional friendly fire.

122 114 101 Looks like you got your flame war here Vic. Posted by: Weirddave at April 19, 2014 11:39 AM (N/cFh) Ironic isn't it. BTW while going through the news sites for links this morning I noted another church in TX that had been charged with child abuse, forced marriage, multiple wives etc. The court through out the child abuse charges due to lack of evidence so the State used the "this property did evil law" and confiscated the church and 1600 acres of land. So it sort of makes you wonder about the "child abuse" charges at Waco. Posted by: Vic at April 19, 2014 11:46 AM (T2V/1) Janet Reno was no stranger to fabricating charges of child abuse. Google Bobby Fijnje.

123 So it sort of makes you wonder about the "child abuse" charges at Waco. Posted by: Vic at April 19, 2014 11:46 If you read about the abuse those people suffered at the authorities hands before they got their get out of jail cards for finally trashing the church, and the fact the only person to say she was abused later recanted and said she was abused by her federal captors you discount the entire vilification.

124 No worries Insomniac.

125

I read Ace daily, but rarely post comments. I was curious when I saw the OKC bombing post to see what the 'morons' would do with it. As I suspected, you couldn't leave Waco alone. I don't justify McVeigh, but I don't think you can disconnect historical events from their causal chains.

FWIW, here is an important religio-historical look at the Waco story,

http://tinyurl.com/lxq48q7

I think we still need to understand Waco better. Governments have always behaved this way and we need to be on our guard about how we allow our opinions of significantly different groups to be manipulated. I don't agree with Gladwell on all of his points, but his background among Mennonites gives him some deeper understanding of religious groups. 

126 105 Ok please Waco mentioners. Stop it. Now Posted by: Dave in Texas at April 19, 2014 11:41 AM (l7DqC) OK

127 Posted by: Truck Monkey, Gruntled New Business Owner at April 19, 2014 11:43 AM (jucos) Coolness.

128 Commenter friends, I do not have time to nurse these comments for assholes. Please police one another and just dump on the few jerks that require dumping on. I'm asking politely that we constrain comments to kind remembrances of those who suffered. If you can't do that (and I'm speaking only to the Waco haters not everyone, I hope you all understand this), then please just go away for a day. Thank you

129 The reason this happened was because the ATF wanted to increase its budget and thought a PR stunt at Waco would help it. In the end, the ATF, Clinton, and Reno wanted to destroy the 2nd Amendment by arresting the Branch Davidians. The OKC bombing was directly caused by the assault of Clinton on the 2nd Amendment. No Waco, no Ruby Ridge, no assault weapons ban and there would have been no OKC. That is reality.

130 And to all the Constitution lovers, stay strong & do not submit to the bullies and Harry Reid assholes that call names and attempt to silence us.

131 okaay... I tried the nice approach guess who's out of the pool now Federale?

132 anybody else wanna be a fucking asshole and get banned? step up.

133 Speaking of remembrance, today is also the anniversary of the beginning of the Warsaw Ghetto Uprising: 19 April 1943 – 16 May 1943.

134 We are all Americans. Even federal employees >>>> Not sure if that's true today. I'll keep it at that and reiterate my condolences for those who suffered.

135 Ben Shahn's "Warsaw 1943" seriagraph: http://tinyurl.com/o5ekwfk

136 The suspected Iraqi agent. Posted by: eman at April 19, 2014 10:30 AM (AO9UG) "The foreign connection" They dropped a metric fuckton of quasi-"exculpatory" (here inculpatory of other people) evidence on the defense team the day before McVeigh was executed. (linky)vvv Nothing has changed from then to Reid trying to use the BLM as a death squad today. Counterterror is politicized as hell.

137 sigh

138 OK who's next? I have asked politely a few times that we constrain this to remembrances of things that deserve our remembrance and stop amping it up to eleven over THE GODDAMN GOVERNMENT. I'm not being polite anymore. Take your bullshit somewhere else.

139 Sometimes, out of great heartache and tragedy, people put aside their petty differences and come together as one. It happened after 9/11. I remember the legislators from both parties coming out on the steps of the capital singing God Bless America.

Unfortunately, the nation didn't get a chance to come together after Oklahoma City. Bill Clinton took a tragedy and turned it into a political opportunity. What kind of sociopath does it take to do such a thing? 

It was the lowest political act I have witnessed in my entire life.

140 yeah, I get that Mike and it burned me too

141

Mike and Dave, ditto (chuckle) on that.  Perhaps that unbelievable despicable invidious stunt of political slander by Clinton marks the actual descent of the country into its current debased Third World state.  It blew me away.  A president, while the dust of the greatest terrorist attack still swirled in the wind and nobody had any idea what had just happened, making a ludicrous slanderous (and ridiculous) accusation against political opponents. 

 

His degradation of the office and country were epic in general - but thinking about it, Clinton didn't come close to the jaw-dropping debasement we have under the current affirmative action non-entity.  Race-baiting from the WH press room, "punish your enemies", and on and on. 

 

Meanwhile, while I have never considered using the ignore function here (there is one, right?), this thread certainly raises the issue. 

142 Bill Clinton took a tragedy and turned it into a political opportunity. What kind of sociopath does it take to do such a thing?

***

You answered your own question.

143 The Oklahoma City Memorial is one of the most touching memorials I've ever seen. It ranks up there with the Vietnam Memorial. In one room there are glass boxes, each containing a picture of a victim & some little momento. One was for a little boy, about 4 with Power Rangers action figures..my knees went weak & I sank to the floor, crying. My grandson was about 4 & loved nothing more than his Spider-Man figures. It broke my heart. It still brings tears to my eyes to think about it. Posted by: American Gypsea at April 19, 2014 10:39 AM (T97Fz) The box that got me was the one with a tiny little pink sneaker that was damaged in the blast that killed the little girl wearing it. I traveled for about six years in a consulting gig. One of the OKC search dogs was on one of my flights. The dog and his handler boarded first and got a whole row of exit seats to themselves so the dog could stretch out. In the gate area before the flight, I took the opportunity to thank the sweet lady and with her permission gave the dog a quick pat. I tried not to cry and add to her burden, but, I just could not manage it. The OKC memorial is a must see. The thing that stunned me was how intertwined with the area the Murrah Building was. All the helicopter shots of the smoking ruins made it seem as if it sat on about 5 acres by itself.

144

RIP victims.

 

Fuck you Timothy McVeigh.

145 ^--- this

146 McVeigh deserved far worse than he got. But I'll always wonder why they couldn't wait to execute him. Usually they're on death row for decades. This is the one fact that will always make me suspicious.

147 It's a sad day. This one picture chnaged my view on many things. I don't think I ever suggested blowing things up after this. When I thought of my abject hatred for many peole in the Gov. and how revenge would be sweet, I remebered this. It was one of the only pictures I had ever seen in my life that instantly made me cry. Yeah, the fireman and the baby. Don't click if you don't want to see. http://tinyurl.com/lqyxxa8

148 Nevergiveup, I am Jewish also and like you have looked askance at facile comparisons of Obama (or anyone short of say Stalin/Mao) to Hitler. But given the way the left and Dems have ratcheted up their demonizing "ra-a-a-a-cist", "war on women", "homophobia" hysteria in the past few years I'm more forgiving than I used to be.

149 141 FOAF at April 19, 2014 02:50 PM (rZ7kp)

http://tinyurl.com/y6kb97y

Zombie's piece on Bill "mr. 25 million" Ayers....

I don't make comparisons lightly....

150 @141 I feel very similarly. Following 8 years of Democrats screaming "Bush is Hitler" with nary a consequence, I'm fairly blasé about the Obama/Hitler comparisons. As far as I'm concerned, the tacit approval of such rhetoric during those 8 years implies that, going forward, Hitler comparisons are now part of the normal political conversation in the US. Sorry for crapping on your thread, Dave. My condolences to the friends and family of those lost to McVeigh's terrorist act.

151 JoeyBagels - to answer your question. McVeigh dropped his appeals and asked to be executed. If I recall correctly (someone help me out here) he actually would have been executed far earlier than June 2001 if not for a clerical error on behalf of the government.

Again, that last part needs some correction/specification. But that's how i remember it.

152 You can't waive your direct appeals since the state has an interest in trials being reviewed for errors. However, discretionary appeals can be waived and McVeigh waived those.

153 I went to that memorial with a dear friend. Unforgettable. My kids were babies when it happened. I cried for days. And, Lent ended on Thursday evening, BTW.

154

This country will remain great because despite all the provocations and abuses by Leftists in power, Clinton, Reno, Obama, Holder, etc....the Right is filled with people who charitably forgive and simply forge ahead, determined to turn-the-other-cheek despite all the abuses, even when every human impulse in their body cries out for retribution. 

My sister's good friend and prayer-group member, Julie Welch, was killed on April 19, 1995, in the Murrah Building explosion.  I remember seeing her weeks before she died while she was visiting at our house, smiling and laughing with my younger sister and her friends.  Then I remember my sister speaking at her funeral at Epiphany of the Lord Catholic Church in Oklahoma City.  It was so surreal.  I was standing by a window about twenty blocks away when the blast occured, and my first thought was that a plane had crashed downtown.  Me and some of my brothers went down within hours to help with search and rescue.  I don't like to think much about that day in particular, but of course in Oklahoma City you can't get away from it every April 19th....which is not necessarily bad of course...its good to remember.  Just not pleasant.

But the whole thing I have taken from it until today, besides my mother crying at Timonthy McVeigh's execution, (and its not because neither she or I could sit here and list a string of terrible things to describe the man himself and the level of hurt, pain, destruction he caused to so many people we knew on a personal level, and to the nation as well for that matter), but because as a Christian woman with five boys of her own, she simply saw a misguided little kid who, in her mind, had no idea what he had actually done.  (Kind of like what Jesus said about his executioners...)  Like a two-year old with a loaded gun who shoots his one-year old sister because he doesn't understand what he's doing.  OK, its not a perfect analogy, but you get the idea.  My mom understood that McVeigh was going to suffer for what he had done, and while she agreed that it was right and just that he pay for what he did, she was still able to forgive the stupid little boy that she saw inside him.  I remember being pretty blown away by my mom having any sympathy at all for McVeigh, but I think I get where her mind was.  God, in my belief system, is and always will be the ultimate judge.  He will make the final call as to punishment and retribution.  People of good will on the Right know this (I believe so anyway), deep to their core, they internalize this, and THAT is why this great country survives, despite everything, all the provocations.  For that matter, one of the biggest death penalty opponents who argued, and even took to the airwaves to argue against McVeighs execution, was....wait for it.....Bud Welch....Julie's father!  I remember thinking, wow, if the man whose own daughter McVeigh had killed can forgive him, what should my response be?  (Still not entirely sure by the way...)

All I can say is we are very blessed to have such people in our lives...people like my mom and Bud Welch, I mean.  When every impulse is to reach for the rock or the gun and hit back twice as hard, they show us another way...frankly the only way, IMHO.  Eye for an eye makes the whole world blind...

Sorry for the long post.  Don't mean to offend anyone, just my two cents.

Happy Easter to those headed to Church....and good wishes to all people of goodwill, of whatever faith or no particular faith!  Rest in Peace Julie!  We will never forget you!  And to all those who spoke so well of the Bombing Memorial....just to tell you how powerful it is....I have never been inside it...not once in all these years....because its too overpowering.  (Although I go by the reflecting pool at the outside memorial a fair amount since I frequently have business downtown.)

 

 

155 Don't forget the three unborn children that died in this horrible attack

156 McVeigh (may he rot in hell) deliberately chose to target children as revenge for Waco. If "Dave in Texas" finds that connection uncomfortable, go ahead and be little nazi, censor and ban away.

157

For most people the 750 casualties at the Oklahoma City bombing were strangers.  Everybody is appalled by the lost of life and injuries but it is like so many other tragedies where a lot of people die.  We rapidly move from the horror of the event to trying to understand what and why it happened so we can try to stop it from happening again. 

I knew immediately what the person was like who blew up the building the moment I heard about the explosion.  Someone with nothing to live for and driven over the edge by abusive government thugs who were not held accountable.  When the thugs get away with it, the innocent government employees suffer because from the outside, they all look the same.

 I believe the commenterÂ’s here who get into the politics of the event are really trying to prevent another disaster by understanding the causes.  Has the government become less abusive and more accountable?

I keep comparing Oklahoma City bombing to another terrorist, John Brown.  Look up the history of the Haiti slave revolt that was recent history at the time and see what Brown was trying to do.  A similar slave revolt would have killed thousands if he had been successful.  The civil war killed a thousand times the number who died in Oklahoma with a much smaller population.  A similar upheaval today would make that 10,000 times greater.  I do not see the situation becoming less dangerous.  The same political party that promoted slavery into new territories and wrote the Fugitive Slave Act and caused the civil war is in charge today.

 I think about the dead at Oklahoma City with despair.

158 In response to a question above: why is the OKC bombing such an important thing in the media now...well, a fellow by the name of Richard Mack has once again found himself in front of the news cameras (I think you know why and pertaining to what), and that man's history is such that many, many connections could be made. It's always a good idea to be careful of who is involved in a big story. He is, imhao, quite an odious character and anything he touches should be well investigated before putting trust into it. As for the bombing itself, and even Waco before it, my only personal take on it is this: the innocent (meaning the children in both cases; Koresh himself I consider to be in league with Jim Jones) will always be the first to suffer and die, because people are greedy and selfish, and because evil is banal.

159 Yes it's a shame children died and in addition, all the innocent people just there to do business with the government.