1 Was the guy nuts or something?

2 Aim low.

3
in b4 charlie gibson!

4

I was going to do some snark about loving a story with a happy ending but it's clear this woman is going to troubled by what she was forced to do. At least she'll be alive to deal with it.

And I wouldn't be surprised if somehow the Commiecrats try to put her on trial for defending herself.

5 Hey I must be a moderate because I'm center justified!

6 You gotta be alive to go to therapy.

7 Aim center mass....

8
wow this sounds awful fishy...

9 Good on her.  I understand some folks find things like this troubling, but it seems to me all one needs to do to stop feeling badly about it is think of what that guy would have done to her.  I would think would remove all last shreds of feeling sorry about fragging the fuck.  Hope he died too, knowing some court systems, they bastard would be able to sue her for shooting him otherwise.

10
And that man's name...


Tiger Woods.

He's a horny one, he is.

11 That's the same feeling I get each time I plug a moose.

12

She acted stupidly.

13 For someone not wanting to kill somebody, wouldn't you think she'd yell out a warning like, "I've got a gun, motherf----, and it's aimed at your stomach.  Get the hell off my property." before she pulled the trigger?  Just wondering.

14
*knock knock knock*

15
*knock knock*

16 "Who's There?"

17

Yeah, if this is on the level, and it sounds like it is, snark wouldn't be called for.

18 At my house, they bolt the minute they see the red laser dot on their ribcage.

19 Poor woman.
She did the right thing.
DRT

20
*knock knock knock knock*

21

22 @14 - Is that candygram for me?

23 Awesome, she should get a reward

24 okay puppet off now

25
/jaws theme

26 If it was more common to have you head blown off when breaking into houses... there'd be a lot fewer break-ins. Just sayin'. Sorry she feels bad about defending herself. A good person twisted by a touchy-feely society.

27 The MSM would much rather report about a rape and/or murder, than about someone protecting themself with a gun.

28

There's not a jury in the land that would convict her. Especially if she was at home alone.

29 If there was some guy breaking into my home and I didn't know what he was going to do to me, you'd bet your ass I'd shoot him before he got to me. And I wouldn't feel bad at all. But that's just me and I'm a bloodthirsty wench.

30
15 the plumber
*knock knock*


Whoooo is it?

31
Was he a zombie?

32 Good for her, she kept this wacko from doing harm to her or doing the same to someone else.  She also did her part keeping the court system from being bogged down with this asshole.  Nice and tidy I'd say.

33

Kathysaysso -

I thought of that too, but then why should she?  Announcing that she had a gun would most likely only make her situation more dangerous.  I doubt he was remotely rational, and if he knew she had a gun, then what if he pulled out a gun and broke down the door with his pistol blazing?  What if he looked for another avenue to enter the house and entered without her knowledge?

I feel sorry for her, it is something she is going to have to live with, but at least she will be in that position.

34 It's a hell of a thing to take another human being's life from them, no matter the circumstances.

Makes it especially difficult if you're just a person defending themselves and their family. They didn't go looking for this, it came to them, and they had to make that decision.

I pray I never have to be in that spot.

35

If he got OUT of the house she needs to drag the corpse back INTO the house before the police get there. Otherwise she can be charged even though he had broken in, if she shot him outside of the house.

If he's dead and his body is not IN the house, then she'll be arrested and have to go through an investigation to rule out murder. If he's dead after breaking into the house, and his body is still in the house where he was shot,  then it's considered self defense unless some other evidence indicates otherwise and she won't necessarily be charged.

What I don't get about this is why you don't hear her yell any warning instructions like "stay back or I'll shoot" before she unloads the gun....(like maybe I know how *I'D* react in the same situation.....)

36 I think getting to read the guy's wrap sheet might help her feel a bit better.

37
i love parrot jokes!

but I think i've heard them all -- but the punchlines still make me lol

38 You've got to do what you've got to do.

Personally, I think she was in the right. The transcript didn't do the audio justice. Her begging for forgiveness was heart-wrenching.

39 If there was some guy breaking into my home and I didn't know what he was going to do to me, you'd bet your ass I'd shoot him before he got to me. And I wouldn't feel bad at all.

How about posting your address so I can put you on my "do not call" list?

40 #13
She had the tactical advantage of knowing where he was and him not knowing where she was or that she was armed. If you yell out "hey I have a gun and I'm right over here" you lose the tactical advantage and could lose the battle.

41

I pray I never have to be in that spot.

Amen to that! But I'd do it if I had to.

42

13 For someone not wanting to kill somebody, wouldn't you think she'd yell out a warning like, "I've got a gun, motherf----, and it's aimed at your stomach.  Get the hell off my property." before she pulled the trigger?  Just wondering.

If your going to shoot, shoot, don't talk. Somebody kicking in your front door ain't there to talk about the weather.

43

Alarm system=dog barking. Try the next place down the road.

Cut the phone=No

Widow with a gun? see above

44 to further swipe from Allah,


"Graveyard dead"

45 Didn't even give him time to explain for an OH SHIT!

46
And in reality the chance of her facing any legal consequences appear to less than none.


I wouldn't be too sure of that,there have been cases where the families of criminals have sued in civil court and won financial judgments.

47 Of course, in England, the cops would haul her off for murder.

48 bulwark, lucky for this woman, a jury of her peers will not say she was responsible.

Hopefully.  At worst, she would have to pay for her civil defense.  If it comes to that, I hope good folks help her with that.

Bless her heart.

49 36 I think getting to read the guy's wrap sheet might help her feel a bit better.

Exactly. I've seen enough bad shit happen to unarmed folks to remove any shred of forbearance for this piece of human trash breaking in.  Hope he died, and that's no lie.  Save the taxpayers a dime.

50 Dyin's a lousy way to make a living, boy.

51 The sad part is all of you Palinistas wanting to hold onto your guns. Keep worshipping Palin, she will lead you right over the cliff.

52
This is where I start smelling a rat:

"Do you have a place you can go inside your house and lock yourself in a room?"

"ahhhhhh, not really."

53 I had listened to this earlier, but not the last 15 seconds.  That's effecting.

54
I'm thinking here's a woman who's watched enough Matlock, Murder She Wrote, and Perry Mason to concoct a murder and get away with it.

55 The would-be intruder definitely died. A 16 gauge load in the center of the chest. I think he got blown back out onto the back porch, if I read correctly.  I feel bad for her but she did the right thing and no jury in Oklahoma would convict her.

56 When you have the 911 operator telling you pretty much to shoot the bastard I'm thinking she is in pretty good shape as far as criminal prosecution. Civil on the other hand is always a crap shoot.  

57

@ 52

Maybe she has those little balsa wood doors you can puch a hole in with your fist. Not much good, especially if he's already breaking in an exterior (solid) door.

58 She did the right thing. As for yelling out a warning, the man knew he was breaking in to a home that was not his own, so his life is forfeited from that moment on. Criminals don't deserve a break.

59 maddogg is right.

NEVER warn someone that you have a gun.  If you bring a gun into the equation, kill your target immediately.  There is no halfway.  No shooting to wound.  No warning shot.  No 'get away'.

That man could have had a gun or a buddy or just plain come back in five years.

If you bring a gun into the equation, you need to have decided it is time to kill.  And that's really hard, as this woman shows us.  Even a hardened man can have a hard time with this... really, they should at least.

60
Posted by: a.k.a. at December 07, 2009 04:44 PM (6zk5L)

Why? If a crazy guy busts down an exterior door or crashes through a window, a bathroom door with a lock only meant to keep someone from barging in on you while taking a piss isn't going to be much of a deterrent.

Most people don't have a commercial grade panic room in their home.

61 This I guarantee, somebody kicks in my front door. There will be no conversation, just several loud "BANGS". I won't look for a place to hide in my own home. Break in, and you leave looking like a sieve, and horizontal.

62

Yeah, if this is on the level, and it sounds like it is, snark wouldn't be called for.

What do you mean? the looser garage invader who got his arm cut off at the forearm was one of greatest snarkest threads of all time....All Time

63
balsa wood.

yeah, I never thought of that.

But she does sound a little suspicious to me. Too calm.

64 40 The story I read this am from a local rag was that she (or someone) did warn him.

From this article: "The man picked up a patio table and threw it through the glass door and entered the home. The woman then shot him in the chest, Mangion said." 

You throw a table through the glass door, you don't get a warning, you get a bullet.

65
And the choice of words is odd, too.

I don't want to kill him instead of shoot him or hurt him.

66

What do you mean? the looser garage invader who got his arm cut off at the forearm was one of greatest snarkest threads of all time....All Time

Shazbot, I missed that one.

Linky?

67 Posted by: Just a cynic.... at December 07, 2009 04:38 PM (v4UYp)


Bullshit. Even if the shoot was correct, moving the body (altering the evidence at a crime scene) is a ticket to the big house. In all 50 states, she'll have to go through an investigation no matter where the body ends up. More than likely, the body wouldn't be found in the same spot that she shot him anyway. Guns aren't infallible death-rays that kill immediately, he'd probably have time to move outside before expiring.

68 a civil lawyer in OK would be an idiot to sue.

Just as the crime only has to be proven by a preponderance, so too does the self defense claim. 

50 miles west of Tulsa is not a place where you're going to get far blaming society and guns for this dirtbag's "suicide by homeowner."

Just gotta feel bad for the lady.  Good Christian woman like that (and that's all there is in BFE Oklahoma), had to feel terrible.

69 Musta been white trash for SharpAckson not to show up w/a mob.

70 a.k.a. suck mah balls.

you don't shoot to "hurt" or just to "shoot" in a defensive situation.  A shotty's gonna kill someone if they're close enough and right in front of it.

71 Posted by: a.k.a. at December 07, 2009 04:51 PM (6zk5L)

You've been reading or watching too many bad mystery novels.

72

Guns aren't infallible death-rays that kill immediately, he'd probably have time to move outside before expiring.

A 16 ga. shotgun at close range is pretty much a death ray. Professional hunters go into brush tracking wounded lions with a 12 guage loaded with buckshot.

73 52
This is where I start smelling a rat:

"Do you have a place you can go inside your house and lock yourself in a room?"

"ahhhhhh, not really."

Posted by: a.k.a. at December 07, 2009 04:44 PM (6zk5L)

She was already inside her own home,  Thats where the "retreat" ends.

74 65 No, no.  Even the police (or defense classes) will tell you to shoot to kill.  Because when people don't shoot to kill - like shoot for leg or whatever - the nerves + movement = often missing and that can lead to the defender being killed.  Shoot to kill.

75

Yeah, you can hear the fear in her voice. She was scared shitless.

And praying.

76 Self defense? Never heard of it.

77 As far as where to aim, i believe i heard she had a 12 gauge, dosent matter where you aim at 5 feet somethings going to be missing, also i do believe the guy died. 12 gauge at 5 feet i sure hope he did, if not, sign him up!

78 If you ask me, the 911 tape (where you can hear the guy banging in the door) exonerates her from any suspicion of wrong doing.

79 She shoots.  She scores!

Sorry....I disagree with the snark embargo.

80 Holy crap, what an awful situation to be in.  I feel very bad for the woman who was forced to do this.  And thanks for the opinions above, I was wondering why she didn't tell him she was aiming right at him or just shoot him in the legs.  Now I know.  I still feel bad for her, though, tough thing to live with.

81 Also if you shoot to wound the DA will argue that you were "not in fear of your life" and should not have fired. You really have no choice if you want to survive an attack and stay out of jail.

82 wow this sounds awful fishy...
Posted by: a.k.a.
This is where I start smelling a rat:
"Do you have a place you can go inside your house and lock yourself in a room?"
"ahhhhhh, not really."
Posted by: a.k.a.
I'm thinking here's a woman who's watched enough Matlock, Murder She Wrote, and Perry Mason to concoct a murder and get away with it.
Posted by: a.k.a.
ut she does sound a little suspicious to me. Too calm.
Posted by: a.k.a.

My God, you're stupid.

83 A 16 ga. shotgun at close range is pretty much a death ray. Professional hunters go into brush tracking wounded lions with a 12 guage loaded with buckshot.



Granted. Then again, there's a reason that one of the USMC Rules for Gunfighting is "Anything worth shooting is worth shooting twice. Bullets are cheap, life is expensive."

84 hopefully none of you will ever be in the situation, but afterwards remember only one thing:

"I was just shooting to stop. I was just shooting to stop. I was just shooting to stop."

85 He's pining for the fjords.

86 Thanks, guys, for letting me know about never giving a warning.  I truly didn't know that (I have never owned a gun since I have a terribly bad and irrational temper).  Also, I live in the land of eunuchs and harridans (San Francisco), where discourse about protecting one's self is discouraged.

87
Poor bastard probably just needed to use the bathroom.

Like Sheriff Joe of Scranton once said:

When nature calls- nature calls.

88   Even the police (or defense classes) will tell you to shoot to kill.

Wrong.  You shoot to stop.  Once the threat has ceased you stop shooting.

That is exactly how you explain it "I was in fear for my life so I stopped him."  And then you say "I'll cooperate in your investigation in any way possible but would like to speak to my lawyer now."  Then you shut up until you speak to the lawyer.

If you have a gun, and you practice for self defense you should also practice for criminal defense.

89 No no moron. The operant phrase is 'I was afeared for mah life'.

90 hopefully none of you will ever be in the situation, but afterwards remember only one thing:

"I was just shooting to stop. I was just shooting to stop. I was just shooting to stop."


Exactly. You never, NEVER say that you were shooting to kill. Shoot to stop the threat.

91

a.k.a. suck mah balls

Second..motion carries.

BTW, Who said it wasn't a single shot weapon? A breech loading 16 guage won't offer much time to reload if you wound his shin.

92 Shoot to end the threat...dead pretty much makes that happen.

93 Shoot to stop? Well if he's dead, I guess he stopped.

94 >>Wrong.  You shoot to stop.  Once the threat has ceased you stop shooting.

You are referring to semantics; i'm referring to action.

95 Once he's good & dead, you should obviously give full consideration to his well-being. But not before that.

96 It's not semantics.  It's legal.

97

Like Sheriff Joe of Scranton once said

Hey, we threw that prick out when he was 3!

98 I guess "shooting to stop" precludes any coup de gras after he's down.

99 16g ? enough gun.

100 If he got OUT of the house she needs to drag the corpse back INTO the house before the police get there. Otherwise she can be charged even though he had broken in, if she shot him outside of the house.

Depends on the State.  Even in States that prohibit shooting them when running away most will not prosecute unless there are other factors.

101 "61 This I guarantee, somebody kicks in my front door. There will be no conversation, just several loud "BANGS". I won't look for a place to hide in my own home. Break in, and you leave looking like a sieve, and horizontal."   Absolutely, maddogg. Everyone has to draw their lines and this is where I would draw mine also. Cross that threshold and if I can make it happen you will die or be hurt to the point you will not have any chance whatever of getting off the floor to give whatever it was you were going to do another try.   The police try to do their jobs but they cannot always get there in time to protect you. I know there might be legal problems but I have thought it out and would risk that as opposed to risking my wife or son's life - or even my own for that matter.   Probably not something the people on this site fret about overmuch, but this provides a good gut check. If this happened, how do you react? If they are on your property, do you call out and tell them you've called the cops and try to give them a chance to leave before this type of thing happens? I agree that if they are trying to break in and you give them a warning, they might run, but you are also asking for a bloody confrontation with an armed psycho.   Hope this lady is OK. Can't imagine an Oklahoma jury not understanding this. Now in my part of the mid-Atlantic, it could be a little dicey. 

102 >>It's not semantics.  It's legal.

That doesn't make not a semantic issue.  Nor does the one point negate the other.  How is it functional different to shoot to stop then to shoot to kill (which is the only what to g'ntee a stop?)  Action is one thing.

Then explaining you shot to stop: that's semantics.  Not unimportant.  Just different point.

103 Seems so jean. She really didn't have time to shop for a 12g.

104 To the douche-bag that says we're funny to 'hold on to our guns'.  I do hope that was snark.  If not, which would you have preferred you stupid leftist?  That she be strangled and raped?  Would that have made the situation more to your liking?

F off, libtard.

105 I've seen enough zombie movies to know that the head's got to come off to be safe.

106

A cop told me if I ever had to pick up a gun to shoot to kill.  He also said that if I could remember, while I was shooting the person in the chest to yell, "Stop!  I've got a gun!" and to not empty the clip.

After scumbag dead, then lay one into the ceiling.  He said it would make it a lot easier for the cops ("She fired a warning shot"), but if I forgot all that and just plugged him, if I were home alone, the cops would consider it a taxpayer's money saving favor.

Cops aren't stupid.  They know who the bad guys are.  Lawyers don't.

107 I guess "shooting to stop" precludes any coup de gras after he's down. Posted by: maddogg at December 07, 2009 05:14 PM (OlN4e) I thought he was getting back up, so I shot him again. And then hit him with the golf club. And then stabbed him. 84 times. And then cut him up and fed him to the pigs. But I didn't mean to kill him.

108

My wife had this same sort of incident, but the guy couldn't get into the house. 38 SW was ready if he did.

I still smell rat. 

Recording saying she shot him outside, but he was breaking in??  She seems mighty calm.  Why doesn't she fire off a round or let the guy see her with the gun.

She knows him, I am betting, and she's going to be indicted for murder.

109 One question: Is the guy in the picture dressed in prison garb? If yes, that means he's not likely to have been some otherwise Mr Clean kind of guy that suffered some sort of momentary lapse in judgment.

110 Anyone else take a look at that guy's picture and get their spidey sense squealing like fire engine?

I know if I seen this guy on the street, I would hit an immediate orange.

111 One report, sorry no linky, claimed that he had a huge rap sheet for such offenses. Cops on scene likely knew him.

112

"For someone not wanting to kill somebody, wouldn't you think she'd yell out a warning like, "I've got a gun, motherf----, and it's aimed at your stomach.  Get the hell off my property." before she pulled the trigger?  Just wondering."

 

Yeah, that's smart, let the person know where you are by comprimising your position, what are you stupid?

113 compromising  there fixed it

114 Google " Rules for a Gunfight"

115
Come on!

Listen to the call. Listen to the knocking on the door and tell me that's banging. It sounds like a pretty calm, but loud, knock to me.

And it's strange how she says "he's getting close to the door." What do you mean close to the door; he's standing right next to the door knocking!

And when the operator asks if the caller understands what he's saying, the caller ignores the operator's question and just repeats 'he's crazy.'

116 Then explaining you shot to stop: that's semantics.  Not unimportant.  Just different point.

No, it is not merely a matter of an after the fact explanation.  It is also a matter of intent and mind set at the time of the event. 

117 >>It is also a matter of intent and mind set at the time of the event. 

Oh yes?  Go on. 

118

Also it was after midnight, her options were extremely limited I'd say.

Here in Canada, before you even pull out a gun you've got to be sure they have a gun, or you'll be going to jail.

"Excuse me crazy person, are you armed with a firearm? Eh?"
"YEARRRGH!@ ULUOPLOOOM!"

Juries in Canada aren't much help.

 

119 If you have a real self defense situation, you get the perp when he is breaking in.  From my self defense and handguns training, the other thing you must have besides the weapon system and handling training is the defensive mindset.  All that together will help you through this.  I have not had to do this, but good friends have, and even though the perp was a total a$$hole and deserved to die, it was still something that they had to deal with for a while.  My brother-in-law was a cop in Minnesota.  He got shot in the arm and had to kill the guy.  After a year of physical rehab and all, he found himself on the job in another situation and had to blow the perp away.  It seriously affected him.  Justified or not, he had scars from these two incidents that still have a residual effect on him today.  It is serious stuff.  But he is alive and still a dad to his children.

Killing people is something that is not taken lightly.

120
Why is so hard to believe she shot this man, then called the sheriff, banged on the door while she was on the phone, and then fired her shotgun again?

Did you hear the operator tell her she could protect herself with the gun? Maybe that was the green light she was waiting for because a few seconds later she shot him.

121
She said she shot him going out the front. But I thought she said he was breaking in the back door?

122

She was awfully quiet right up until she blasted him.  She was whispering to 911 operator.  Perhaps the death could have been avoided if she screamed at the dude that she was prepared to blast him.  But apart from that, I know for sure it could have been avoided if dude had refrained from attempting to enter the dwelling house of another.   

123 Yeah, that's smart, let the person know where you are by comprimising your position, what are you stupid?

See my post at 86, Todd.  Then kindly go bang on some doors in Oklahoma, fuckwad.

124 a.k.a., are you being willfully ignorant?  The audio is fairly clear -- she shot him and then said that SHE was going out the front door.

Are you anti-gun, anti-self-defense, anti-woman, or just anti-common sense?

125

120
Why is so hard to believe she shot this man, then called the sheriff, banged on the door while she was on the phone, and then fired her shotgun again?

Ever hear of Occam's razor?

126
yeah, I'm anti-gun, what gave it away?

what the fuck is wrong with you people? And I heard what she said.

Sounds like she kicked the screen door open and fired the weapon.

127 Look what Santa dropped off at my house a couple of days ago. http://www.gundirectory.com/more.asp?gid=20805&gun=Shotgun Sweet...........

128 "The man picked up a patio table and threw it through the glass door and entered the home. The woman then shot him in the chest, Mangion said."

129 Ever hear of Occam's razor?

Nope!

130
funny how we didn't hear it, though

131

Remember the one about the elderly gent who asked a punk to please quiet down when he was screaming at a woman's house next door in the middle of the night?  Punk pulled out a pistol and smashed the old guy across the face with it, and then stood over him screaming "You want a piece of me?".

Turns out the pistol was just a CO2 gun, but the Glock .40 the old man pulled out of his jacket was the real thing, and he drilled the punk dead on the spot.

The story went on that when the detective was taking his statement, and the old-timer kept recounting  how the punk had kept screaming "You want a piece of me?!!", the detective said "Okay, we'll put you down for a 'Yes' on that one."

132

126 what the fuck is wrong with you people? - a.k.a.

I've about had it with your stupidity bubby. Did you even glance at the link?

Here's some clues dude:

-around 12:30 a.m. to report that she was home alone

-For nearly 10 minutes the man continued banging at the door and yelling profanities, threatening the woman.

-The man picked up a patio table and threw it through the glass door and entered the home

-"I shot him. I'm going out front. I hit him. God help me," Jackson said

Sounds like a fake to you now? Eh Sherlock? We only hear PART of the recording, get it? Yelling, threatening? Table through the door? Entered the house, yeah obviously a staged murder... yutz!

133

131

Oops, sorry real Sherlock!@ lolz! Cross-posted.

134

That was a good kill.  Period.

Sucks she had to do it, but that was the guy's risk to take.

135

Here in Canada, before you even pull out a gun you've got to be sure they have a gun, or you'll be going to jail.

"Excuse me crazy person, are you armed with a firearm? Eh?"
"YEARRRGH!@ ULUOPLOOOM!"

Juries in Canada aren't much help.

 

Posted by: 5Cats at December 07, 2009 05:34 PM (O5yP

--Is that true?  I have contemplated getting a shotgun.  If anyone were to break into my house while I'm here, they would probably just be high and not heavily armed.  I figure just cocking the gun would send them scurrying like hell.

136 "He who hesitates is dead"

137 yeah, I'm anti-gun, what gave it away?
Posted by: a.k.a. President Preempt at December 07, 2009 05:43 PM (6zk5L)

The stupidity.

Here's hoping you are never in this position. You'll wish you had a shotgun and not just your dick in your hand.

138
haha, you guys are as irrational as Kos Kids sometimes.

139 Posted by: logprof at December 07, 2009 05:52 PM (I3Udb) Better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6.

140

1sttofight,

There's no "splainin" to some people. That was not Santa knocking at that poor woman's door. Not the Avon lady, not Jehovah Witnesses. She did her community a service by taking out the trash. Nice Mossberg, by the way.

141 Is that true? I have contemplated getting a shotgun. If anyone were to break into my house while I'm here, they would probably just be high and not heavily armed. I figure just cocking the gun would send them scurrying like hell.

If it doesn't, then you're going to need the stopping power of a shotgun.

Get a pump action, really gets their attention. 12 gauge, where even bird shot is going to be plenty fatal in an indoor environment.

142 @130

We didn't see it either!  Musta been murder.

143 I would also like to clarify, when I use my keen intellect to analyze a crime scene, that I immediately become suspicious when potential crime victims don't wet their pants in fear and cry tears of blood when confronting a threat.

It's what I would do... in fact, when I watched the video, I pooped a little.

144 The guy had just gotten in a car accident.  He may have been injured.  (he probably was drunk and that's likely why he crashed his car)  From the looks of her house, she lives in a rural area.  It makes sense that he might go to the nearest house and bang on a door.  This certainly wasn't a targeted burglary.  His car was presumably in a ditch nearby. 

This is really sad. 

145 * facepalm

146
It makes sense that he might go to the nearest house and bang on a door. 

yeah, and throw a table through the door because he's so disoriented?

Is this a sockpuppet of Seasshole Slough?

147

144

What an idiot. Not you, the perp. If you approach a home in rural America you'd better have your hat in your hand, no matter what your sobriety.

148
If it doesn't, then you're going to need the stopping power of a shotgun.


Get a pump action, really gets their attention. 12 gauge, where even bird shot is going to be plenty fatal in an indoor environment.

Posted by: Naqamel at December 07, 2009 05:57 PM (UMwMT)

--Yes, the noisier the better.  I want deterrent power as wel as stopping power.  I would not want to clean scumbag DNA from my house if it can be pre-empted.

149 When you hear this sound, kiss your ass goodbye. http://www.freesound.org/samplesViewSingle.php?id=55341

150 Fuck, I'm the sockpuppet Kerry!

151 @144
"may" "probably" "likely" "might" "presumably"

What is sad is how many anti-gun liberals break their backs bending over backwards to strain and distort a simple self-defense incident into sympathy for the perpetrator.

152 I wanna buy the lady a drink.

153 Paraphrasing Kim- add another to the Goblin Count.

154

YEah logprof, it's not widely enforced luckily, and might not apply in Quebec (which has its own seperate laws).

Usually the mantra of "I thought he had a gun" will get you out of trouble. Of course Crown Prosicutors are all about copping a plea eh?

Good luck getting a firearm! Hopefully the Conservatives will ditch the Registration Act soon. Still, there's the whole FAC thingie...

155 Wow, the people who are trying to find something wrong with what this woman did are absolutely retarded.  She was in her house.  He was broke into her house.  She did not need to warn him, or lock herself in a room (especially one that might give up a tactical advantage).  She had every right to shoot.

It was hard to listen to her ask for forgiveness.  I teared up a bit.  I feel confident that I would be able to shoot if I had to, but I don't ever want to have to, and I can't imagine how it would feel to extinguish a human life.

156 *knock knock knock knock*

Posted by: flowers at December 07, 2009 04:33 PM (6zk5L)

(pssssttt...it's me, Dave, open the door!)

Dave's not here!!

157

aka, so, um, where do you live?

 

158 The full version of this police call is ~32 minutes long. The AP version above is heavily edited.

159 Yeah ss the banging on the door I get . The table through the plate glass door , not so much.
Did your mommas drop all ya'll leftwingers on your heads when you were babies ?

160 Hey just making a point, you are the one that made the stupid statement in the first place. And just to let you know, I will not be in OK anytime soon.  Especially knocking on the door in a trailer park....Fuckwad?  Relax, you  dolt......

161 @52 I would say her avoiding the "small bathroom" she mentions has to do not with thin walls or door, but because a narrow little space is no place to try to wield a big shotgun properly--might be so small a you can't even get it up to your shoulder quickly or properly. In fact, she says something like this "I've got a big gun...I'm not gonna get into a tinly little (bath)room." To those saying she sounds calm: You never know how you're going to react to these things. I've never had to shoot anyone, but I have twice had to pull a gun when an intruder was trying to break in. Once in St. Louis (he took off like a shot when he saw I had a pistol), and once in North Carolina (he nearly got in, but never saw me aiming at him, and left before the police could get there...though in this case, they arrested the man not far away, higher than a kite). Both times, I was very surprised at my reaction. I was initially soil-myself-scared when I realized what was happening (breaking window glass and parking dogs WILL get your attention), but then I was eerily calm yet incredibly angry at the guys for what they were doing to me and my family. Bottom line: We can't with any certainty predict how we would react in the same situation. Just my thoughts.

162

Good luck getting a firearm! Hopefully the Conservatives will ditch the Registration Act soon. Still, there's the whole FAC thingie...

Posted by: 5Cats at December 07, 2009 06:11 PM (O5yP

--Yeah, I am not super worried; car theft is a bigger problem here.  My house is just over 30 years old, and until last year it had regular locks which, especially with the front door, could have easily been opened just by smashing the glad and reaching in.  Despite that, nothing has happened all this time.  Mine's a quiet, safe neighborhod that I can stroll around any time of night, and have. On one of these strolls I did not close the door all the way and when I got back it was a little open, and nothing happened for an hour.  Now I have double bolt locks on both doors, and also an alarm system which pretty much pays for itself with the insurance discount.  I'll see about the gun --my wife may not like.

163

"Guns Don't Kill People, Cops Telling Homeowners They May Fire A Weapon Based Only On a Third-Hand Account of the 911 Operator Kill People."

Alas, too small for a bumper sticker.  I'll have to go with "Invade My Home, Even If Drunk = Death By Buckshot."

164

160  todd, what kind of watch do you wear?  carry cash?

not OK, then where?

165 note to self: avoid sharkman's place

166

132 , 138

Hahaha! I don't need facts or other things like you morons! I know what happened, who done it and everything else too!

Why should I explain it? Anyhow that article might be part of a vast right-wing conspiracy, you never know!

You never know what's fake, unless it's reported on MSNBC, then it's true.

167

Any landing you walk away from is a good landing.

So to speak.

168

166  facts:

old lady home alone

shotgun

intruder breaking in

dead intruder

this is a logical outcome, i salute this woman

169
there's a cardinal rule here at AoS about not sockpuppeting a fellow moron

170

"haha, you guys are as irrational as Kos Kids sometimes"

 

Yes, without all of the fisting......

171

i didn't see that aka,

i apologize for clowning on you

172 Oops: Make that "barking" dogs.

173

Just directing your attention to those two posts a.k.a. care to take any of your silly ideas back? Now's a good time, eh?

Sorry gwg (pa37h) 166 was me!

174

what about lethal attack cats?

my boys would scratch the hell out of the bad guys ankles

(unless he fed them, little traitors)

175

No snark from me either. That's tough, all the way around.

I really have to hand it to the person who took that call, telling this woman that it was OK to defend herself. It sounds like she gave all the help she could.

176 Carry cash, nice watch concealed weapon permit, and a nice 1911 Colt Commander tucked nicely away under the arm, 10 mag dove tail hammer speed trigger. Last time I checked a nice 4 inch group at 25 yds.  Want to meet for lunch? sure

177 #88:

"That is exactly how you explain it "I was in fear for my life so I stopped him."  And then you say "I'll cooperate in your investigation in any way possible but would like to speak to my lawyer now."  Then you shut up until you speak to the lawyer.

If you have a gun, and you practice for self defense you should also practice for criminal defense."

This is EXACTLY right.

178

176  under the arm? dude, we call those widow makers, get a nice hip tuck-in concealed holster

lunch?  you buying?

179

174   what about lethal attack cats?

Lolz navycopjoe! My pudding cats (they're fat and sweet!) are lethal too, if you trip over one!

I warn you! I've got a kitteh and I'm not afraid to use it !!! 

180

5cats, ooooh, bad no no, ace hands out serious asskickings for that

but to add more in, if i came home drunk and loud and busted out the door at my own house i would stand a good chance of eating 8slug

i say good on her

181 LISTEN to the ENTIRE clip, and you won't be talking about how "calm" she was, and how "fishy" this is. Anyone saying that is a huge doucher.

http://bit.ly/4LpApy

182

180  my boys would attack, stop to clean themselves, fall asleep

now if the intruder was a gecko, things would be different

183

"get a nice hip tuck-in concealed holster"

Tried it once, could not get used to it

 

As for lunch, what the hell, what are you having?

184
Get a pump action, really gets their attention. 12 gauge, where even bird shot is going to be plenty fatal in an indoor environment.

Posted by: Naqamel at December 07, 2009 05:57 PM (UMwMT)

Not Necesssarily!

185

i am taking my little sickling out to dennys as soon as she gets dressed

she loves the chicken strips and soup so i'll do the same i guess

nothing like a flu bug to knock the energy out of a 8 yo

186

Old Texas saying:

I'd rather be judged by twelve, than carried by six.

187 I'm not saying she didn't have the legal right.  I'm saying it is sad and she probably didn't need to kill the guy.

Here's what likely happened:  (and I realize this woman couldn't have known any of this)

He's drunk.  It's cold and there in the middle of nowhere.  He has no cell phone.  He crashes his car.  (all this we can infer from the article)

He goes to the nearest house and bangs on the door.  (this we also can infer)  No answer. Now one of two things happens:

(1) He sees her, and gets frustrated that she won't talk to him and let him in.   She spends 32 minutes whispering on the phone while he's freezing his tail off outside.  He makes an idiotic decision to force his way into the house and she kills him. 

Or (2) he never sees her and breaks into what he believes is an abandoned house to get out of the elements and call a tow truck/aid car. 

And where does she live that they can't get a unit out to her house in 32 f-ing minutes?

He's not necessarily a burglar.  He's clearly a trespasser. 

This doesn't appear to be a burglary as his vehicle is presumably nearby and inoperable.

188 (1) He sees her, and gets frustrated that she won't talk to him and let him in.   She spends 32 minutes whispering on the phone while he's freezing his tail off outside.  He makes an idiotic decision to force his way into the house and she kills him. 

Or (2) he never sees her and breaks into what he believes is an abandoned house to get out of the elements and call a tow truck/aid car.

____________________________________________

1) You're a

2) fucking dumbass.

189

Seattle Slough, you're a complete dumbass.  Friendly people don't bash in the windows.  I'd do exactly the same thing if someone busted in my house at night.

If he got OUT of the house she needs to drag the corpse back INTO the house before the police get there. Otherwise she can be charged even though he had broken in, if she shot him outside of the house.

If he's dead and his body is not IN the house, then she'll be arrested and have to go through an investigation to rule out murder. If he's dead after breaking into the house, and his body is still in the house where he was shot,  then it's considered self defense unless some other evidence indicates otherwise and she won't necessarily be charged.

That isn't true in Oklahoma.  Oklahoma has very broad "castle doctrine" laws.  She could shoot him legally as soon as he kicked in a door or window whether he came inside or not.  Not that it matters--no Oklahoma jury would convict her anyway.

Grim

190

"He's not necessarily a burglar.  He's clearly a trespasser. "

Yeppers - Charles Manson was not a burglar, just a trespasser.  If an armed citizen has confronted Manson breaking in, should they have just "ass"umed he was a lesser threat, given the benefit of the doubt, and ........ ??

 

191 Oh yes?  Go on.

What makes you think I'm here for your amusement?

Do whatever the fuck you want to do but if you think use of deadly force means shoot to kill then I'd recommend either moving to Texas or saving up for a really fat retainer.

192

*sigh*

The article says he banged for 10 minutes, then tried to break in. The whole recording was 32 minutes (which includes some time after the cops arrive, I'd suppose). Plus the article says he was threatening her, not pleading for help, dumbass = ss.

Either way, what other protection does she have? A restraining order? lolz!

(1) he could hav gone to the road and waited for another car, gotten help that way.

(2) he could have returned to his truck for shelter. (if his truck was burning that'd keep him warm too)

(3) he could (probably) could have taken shelter in a shed or barn, these are rarely locked in the country (so I'm told, they just lock the ones with valuable stuff)

(4) he could have gone to seattle slough's house and warmed himself by ass-raping ss, then setting ss on fire.

Do lefties NEVER read the article?

193 And where does she live that they can't get a unit out to her house in 32 f-ing minutes?

Cincinnati, Columbus, Baltimore, Chicago, Detroit, just to name a few I have personal experience with. The list of ones I've read about in the news is longer; usually with a WTF reason for no/delayed cop response.

Then when you get rural areas, like this appears to be, that are 10 minutes away in ideal conditions from the closest small town that you pass through if you blink and have maybe a sheriff...maybe...and the closest big town is 20 minutes away (hint, some cousins live in areas like this), it's easy to see how it could take 32 minutes for cops to get there.

194 AKA and Kemp are both nitwits.  Jesus.  The poor old woman had to whack someone who was trying to break into HER house and I'm guessing do bad things to her once he got in there.  I'm glad she plugged him and I hope she can reconcile what she had to do.

195 The pop-up ad for Jimmy John's subs is eerily synchronized to the on-screen action. Apparently they'll deliver your online order scary fast to your door.

Hurm... on rerunning, the ad disappears. Might be a cookie thing, or maybe YouTube had the good sense to yank it. 

If the dirtbag's survivors dare to bring suit, she should definitely countersue the estate for the damage to her patio doors and table, gunshot damage to her house, bloodstains and emotional distress.

196

Yeah, because home invasions never end badly for the homeowners.


Marquis of Queensbury rules, old chaps.  Remember, do not fire unless fired upon!


Hey aka, enjoy that assraping.  After all, you wouldn't want anyone to think you staged a racist murder at your house.

197 Not only would no jury convict her, but, more importantly, no prosecutor in OK would bring charges.

I doubt that any court in OK would hear a lawsuit by the perps survivors either. Still, it's profound to take a life, even if justified. Bless her. I teared up a little too listening to her. She's very strong, with a compassionate heart.

198 Oh and it's coup de grâce, not coup de gras.
Gras is either fat or liver, I forget which, as in pâté de foie gras.
Grace is mercy, as in a death blow.

Sorry, it's compulsive with me.

199 "being put in a position that no one should ever have to be put into taking action in her own hands" That's Crap. I'm not being hard on this woman -- yes, it is a difficult thing -- but isn't that the position every living one of us is put in the moment we are born? It is our responsibility to guard our own lives. It's a lovely luxury -- for which we work hard and long -- to have others help us gurd our own arse. But, when the SHTF, it's all up to me, baybee.

200 (1) He sees her, and gets frustrated that she won't talk to him and let him in.   She spends 32 minutes whispering on the phone while he's freezing his tail off outside.  He makes an idiotic decision to force his way into the house and she kills him. 

Or (2) he never sees her and breaks into what he believes is an abandoned house to get out of the elements and call a tow truck/aid car. 

And where does she live that they can't get a unit out to her house in 32 f-ing minutes?

He's not necessarily a burglar.  He's clearly a trespasser. 

This doesn't appear to be a burglary as his vehicle is presumably nearby and inoperable.

Posted by: seattle slough at December 07, 2009 06:54 PM (JRGA6)

--A similar scenrio happened in one of the godawful stretches of Season 2 of 24, only with a convenience store.  Also stupid.

201 Do whatever the fuck you want to do but if you think use of deadly force means shoot to kill then I'd recommend either moving to Texas or saving up for a really fat retainer.
Posted by: ThomasD

Simpleton!  Do you not know that discharging a firearm IS considered Deadly Force?    "Shooting to wound" is a grade-school, comic book, seen too many cowboy movies mindset.  You can shoot a person in the pinky and they can die from sepsis, yet the shooting is the catalyst. You can thank lawyers for that shit.

If you are put in the position to drop the hammer on someone, you had best do it until they are unable to continue their assault on you.  If you tell anyone you were just trying to hurt him/her, you are gonna get sued.

Bottom line:  If you break down in the country, you had best be on your best behavior when approaching a homestead.  If you don't get a response, LEAVE, even if you know someone is in there.  They are not required to help your sorry ass.

202

#35

Falsifying the scene is a big no no!! Even if a shoooting is justified, if it is found out it will be used against you in trial and it can sway a jury as to your credibilty.

203 Was he a zombie? He is now.

204  Some of the shotgun experts on this thread watch too much television. At fifteen feet the pattern from a shotgun ranges from smaller than a clenched fist to the size of a coffee cup's saucer. And the sound of a pump shotgun being racked doesn't always scare someone away, it's just as likely that sound be unheard or bring a volley of gunshots.

 Warning shots should not be used. The noise of a gunshot inside will deafen you for quite a while and the muzzle flash can ruin your night vision. It;s not exactly a good idea to be deaf and partially blind with a gun in your hand(s) and a bad guy or guys around. If you insist on firing warning shots at night, remove the front sight so the gun comes out easier after the bad guy jams it up your ass.

205 Do whatever the fuck you want to do but if you think use of deadly force means shoot to kill then I'd recommend either moving to Texas or saving up for a really fat retainer.

Posted by: ThomasD at December 07, 2009 07:19 PM (21H5U)

Um, Thomas, far be it from me to explain the English language to you, but it seems to me that the explaination for deadly force is force that, more often than not, causes death, i.e., 'shoot to kill'. Frankly, you can do fuck you want to do, but the first motherfucker that breaks into my house with me or mine in it is going to leave well ventilated, I honestly don't care what the applicable laws are here in California. Another thing- if you aren't prepared to destroy your target, you better leave that gun in the locked case with the gunlock in it and the ammo stored elsewhere in the house, because you aren't prepared to use it, and you stand a pretty good chance of having it taken away from you. You don't shoot to warn, or maim, or wing. Those are not deadly force. You shoot to kill. That's what deadly force is.

206 What the heck? She was on the phone with the operator for 10 minutes? That's an awfully long time. Where were the cops?

She must have reeeeally been in the boondocks......or not.

207

Is someone actually saying shoot to wound?

Here's your sign

208

What the heck? She was on the phone with the operator for 10 minutes? That's an awfully long time. Where were the cops?

Remember, Momma- when seconds count, the cops are only minutes away.

209 He's not necessarily a burglar.  He's clearly a trespasser an idiot.

210 Remember, Momma- when seconds count, the cops are only minutes away.

Yeah, that's exactly why I prefer to be armed.

211 Yeah, that's exactly why I prefer to be armed.

Posted by: pajama momma at December 07, 2009 08:15 PM (275r1)

Exactamundo. After having lived in San Diego for a while, you know there's some truth to that mantra.

212 I had a great uncle die that way in Florida. My family is rife with alcoholics. As my family will tell you, he was drunk and he just had to pee. If you ask my dad, he'll tell you it's BS, he was drunk, that part is true, but he was most likely trying to break into the woman's home.

213 For someone not wanting to kill somebody, wouldn't you think she'd yell out a warning like, "I've got a gun, motherf----, and it's aimed at your stomach.  Get the hell off my property." before she pulled the trigger?

Not me. If someone puts as much energy into breaking into my home as that man did, I'm not gonna take the time to give him a warning. I don't think I'd feel I had the time.

If you're that wasted that you have to break into a glass patio door, you're not gonna stop when someone gives you a warning. Also, there's no way she could go in another room to hide, he was gonna break through that one as well.

214

"Is someone actually saying shoot to wound?"

But that's what Barney or Bert & Ernie would have done.  In times bygone - Hopalong Cassidy.  Roy Rogers.  Gene Autry.  Marshall Dillon.

215 Sheeeeeeit.  Anyone breaks into my house and I will empty the fucking magazine of my .380. Then and only then will I bother to call 911.

216 Oy've goot a shrubbery!!..bugger off with ya now!

217 That was one of the most chilling 911 calls I have ever heard. That poor woman.  And for the handful here who are second guessing her?  You are nitwits to put it nicely.

218 It is to laugh.

219 Who's Charle?

220 I'd hope in the dead of night a burglar would hear the shotgun pump.  Having hardwood floors helps a little.

221

Thank god she had a gun. The cops didn't get there in time to help her at all.

The police cannot defend us. We must defend ourselves.

I'd rather this man broke into the home of gun-control statists and had his way with them.

222 Simpleton!  Do you not know that discharging a firearm IS considered Deadly Force?

Try to pay attention. 

I'm not the one advocating shoot to wound.  Re-read my initial post:

  Even the police (or defense classes) will tell you to shoot to kill. (I'm quoting another poster here)

Wrong.  You shoot to stop.  Once the threat has ceased you stop shooting.

That is exactly how you explain it "I was in fear for my life so I stopped him."  And then you say "I'll cooperate in your investigation in any way possible but would like to speak to my lawyer now."  Then you shut up until you speak to the lawyer.

If you have a gun, and you practice for self defense you should also practice for criminal defense.

Yes, I'm well aware that firing a gun at someone is lethal force. 

My point is that even when the law says lethal force it justified it does not give you license to kill.  And if you approach it with the mindset that you are trying to kill someone,(as opposed to merely stopping the threat) and that person really does die you could find yourself in a world of legal hurt, particularly if there is any indication that you continued to apply lethal force after the threat had ceased.

223 For those of you saying she should have said on the tape, "I want to STOP him"

Perhaps she KNEW what that shotgun would do. Maybe she KNEW it would kill a person. She was no dummy. And obviously a good shot. I only heard one shot fired. I could be wrong.
But, the woman was no stranger to the gun.
Bless her. I hope she's okay.
I don't care how he is. He shouldn't have broken in the home. Period.

224 Posted by: pajama momma at December 07, 2009 08:21 PM (275r1)

Ouch.

225 I don't think she had a choice, but what a terrible thing to be forced to do.  You can hear the anguish in her voice when it's over.  I had a dream one time, that I blew away some burglars in my house, and the police had covered the bodies and laid them out under the tree in the back of our house, and then I woke up and realized it wasn't just a dream, it was a nightmare, because I felt fuckin' awful.  Horrible.  It's one thing to prepare for and to talk about, and quite another to actually do.  She was being brave, defending herself, but when you get right down to it, actually killing someone is not easy.  Like what the mysterious stranger says in "High Plains Drifter" when he is asked "What do we do after?", and answers, "then you live with it".  She will have to learn to live with it, and she doesn't deserve that kind of pain.  It was truly painful to hear her pray at the end.  Shit.

226 The lucky stiff

227

"NEVER warn someone that you have a gun."

HEY, I HAVE A BASEBALL BAT, AND I'LL USE IT!  KA-CHUNK (sound of shell being chambered)

228

Jeez. This sounds f*ckin awful. Fire off a shot in the air first. Bet that would have stopped him cold-assuming he was sober-which he probably wasn't. But still, first shot should be a warning shot. Big, loud scary gunshot near a would be intruder usually does the trick. Seems she had plenty of warning time to make a better decision than the one she made. I mean the guy was knocking. Knocking. I mean what about a shot to the leg? How good a shot is this woman?

I don't know if I have a huge amount of sympathy for this woman. Yes protect yourself in your own home with a gun. Totally fine with that. But in this precise case-- seems like this intruder could have been stopped without deadly force. She did the exact thing she seemed to sincerely not want to do. Kill a man. How bout wound a man. Way less legal hassle and emotional turmoil.

229 TheJane, that my dear, sounds like a big bag of feces.  I'm polite; I didn't write "big bag of shit."    The police officers who conducted my handgun permit class told us to aim for the center of the body, and we should not watch too many movies.

230 I think this happens a lot more than people think.  I was in school at the Univ. of Florida in the early 90s, shortly after several students were murdered in their apartments, and their bodies mutilated by a piece of human garbage.  There was A LOT of fear in that city at the time and a lot of people buying guns for self-defense.  I lived alone in a condo in a neighborhood where all of the units looked pretty much alike.  In the middle of the night one night, I woke up to the sound of someone banging on, and putting their shoulder repeatedly against my front door, and trying to turn the handle.  My black lab went absolutely berserk and tried to eat her way through the steel door.  I grabbed my phone and my .38 from the nightstand, and ran and stood in the hallway and dialed 911.  I yelled several times as loud as I could that the cops were on the way.  No response.  He just kept trying to open the door; even with a dog going insane on the other side of it.  That should have been clue #1 that this person was either very drunk, high, or full on crazy.  At this point the 911 operator and I had a very brief conversation and she said officers were already on the way and they already knew about the guy.  Apparently mine was not the first door he tried to go through.  Needless to say, the door held, the cops arrived within a couple of minutes (although at the time it seemed like it took forever) and they took him down to the ground on the sidewalk in front of my place. He was completely plastered! His friends showed up right after the cops did, to claim him, explaining that he had gotten drunk and wandered off.  Well, yeah he did.  He got lost and then went to several doors trying to get back to the party.  He was on the wrong side of the street and at least 500 meters from the party when he assaulted my front door.  I was as calm as I've ever been in my life, standing there waiting for that door to open, wishing the cops would get there.  Had that door opened, the guy would have been staring straight up the barrel of my revolver from about 15 feet.  It did not occur to me to retreat to another room. Why would it?  He'd be in my house, and I'd have no idea where he was.  I'll tell you right now, I had already made up my mind that if that guy made it through that door, and came at me, or came around back to the sliding glass door and threw any number of convenient objects through the door to gain entry before the cops arrived, I was going to shoot him in the chest.  I could not see this guy out of any of my windows, I just knew someone was right there, on the other side of that freaking door, trying to break in. And it's two in the morning.  That is the extent of the information I had at the time.  It's easy to go back over something like that and pick it apart and think of how you should have done this or done that differently, but until it happens, you really do not know how you will react.  Fortunately, in this case, all that happened is I got the shit scared out of me.  Last spring, a similar thing happened across the street from my brother-in-law's house in Colorado, only in this case, drunk person, from a couple of blocks away, ended up breaking into a house and getting shot and killed. 

231

This is precisely why I'm going to teach my children (should I ever have any) that solving problems peaceably is the way to go, but that there'll be times when there's nothing left to do but buy some shells for their glocks.

232 Everyone making a comment on this shooting should go listen to the full 32 minutes of the tape.  Her dogs were barking at him the whole time.  Her own son, called by the police dispatcher, arrived at 25 minutes, before the police who were even later than that arrived and the cops couldn't figure out how to get through her locked fence gate in the dark.  The intruder beat on her plate glass sliding doors many, many times in the first 12 minutes.  He threw a lawn chair which bounced off.  He was yelling at anyone in the house, and I think he even says "I (the intruder) have a gun."  At about 10 to 12 minutes into the call he finally throws a patio table through her kitchen area plate glass door and steps into her kitchen.  She fires one 16 gauge shot from the darken kitchen, into the center of his chest from less than 10 feet away. The force of the blast knocks him back outside onto her porch.  If you are a 56 year old women, who will have to wait an additional 18 minutes AFTER a threatening intruder throws a table through your kitchen sliding door, I hope you are a great conversationalist so keep him from becoming violent, beating you, stabbing you, raping you or all of the above, while you wait for help.  The paper is full of people who try, and most wind up rapped, kidnapped or dead. In most cities nationwide 15 to 25 minutes response time for police who will sit outside for 15 minutes waiting for back-up, is rather a common average response time in the middle of the night, it can be longer.  In the midwest where we believe in personal responsibility, you have to protect your family until help arrives.  She made a very tough choice she hated making, but she has the entire episode on tape to prove she avoided violence and begged and begged and begged for the police to hurry.  If you don't have a self-defense gun in your house your should practice your begging too.  With the increase in drug use, the decline of respect for personal property, the need to steal to support illegal activities, this is going to happen more often in the future.  The outcome will be one of two choices, you get to make the choice to live.

233

Bottom line,

she knows the guy or he's an x lover etc, she's going to jail.

Even in OK you can get away with staging a killing.

The more you listen to this the fishy-er it gets.  When my wife called me went they guy was trying to break in, because 911 was not coming anytime soon, she wasn't too rational.  Where is the fucking pistol!!

This woman calmly pulls out a 12 ga and blasts this guy away.

Fish, smells like fish.  I would love to let her kill the guy, but killing an X lover is MURDER!

234

Haven't listened to the entire tape, will retract #233.

 

235

You can here the 33 minutes if you google.

"Woman shoots and kills intruder in Lincoln County" 

236 and I think he even says "I (the intruder) have a gun."

Interesting. That's how I heard it too. Her son is also a police chief and I'm sure he's told her (as my dad who's a sheriff's deputy tells me) shoot to kill!!!

237 Ah, I love, just love, the statements above that go, with mild variations, along these lines: "Just where does this woman live that the police are 30 minutes away?!" Good grief. I thought only Hollyweird idiots were so naive about us poor rubes in flyover country. We (my family and I) live about 40 miles out of Lincoln, Nebraska. Tonight, with deep snow and a blizzard on the way, a call from our farmhouse to 911 reporting an intruder (even an armed intruder) would get police to our door in 45 to 50 minutes. On a clear, lazy summer day, with dry roads and a bored county deputy anywhere nearby, the very BEST response time would still be anywhere from 10 to 20 minutes. I realize that to many folks in more populous areas, this response time seems odd-to-obscene, but it's the reality here, and there's nothing to be done about it. Except for citizens to arm themselves. And as for those advocating "warning shots" (!): My home's dining area has a large, sliding glass door and is about 12 feet wide by 25 feet long. If an intruder (one who has been prowling around-and-about my house for more than 20 minutes, mind you) decides to throw a large patio table or chair through that glass door and then enter, he only has a few steps to get to me, once inside--less than 23 feet. That's mere seconds. So don't try to feed me your BS about how you would rather see this woman fire a "warning shot" and then get another shell jacked into the chamber for the "real deal." Once the man was in her house, he was within 2 seconds of grabbing her or her shotgun, and then the whole story might have been tragically re-written. Imagine an intruder less than 25 feet from you, in your own living room; imagine you're frightened and alone; imagine this strange and staggering intruder has just thrown a chair through your back door and is coming at you. You have two--maybe three--seconds to make up your mind and act. Now tell me (actually, tell yourself) that you will give him a warning shot, AND IN ADDITION GIVE YOURSELF the time to jack another shell into the chamber (provided your gun doesn't jam!), in-case your warning shot fails to dissuade the drunken intruder! If you affirm that, if you're certain you'd be cool and collected enough to do that, I assume one of the follwing things: 1) you lie because you have an over-confident sense of your own performance under terrifying circumstances; 2) you lie because you've never owned a pump-action shotgun, or perhaps any gun, for that matter; 3) you're naive enough to think you could get BOTH a warning shot AND a killing/stpopping shot off at an intruder coming at you in the average-size room of a small house withing 2 seconds. This poor woman had a strange, violent, door-smashing, drunk-and/or-doped-out man in her living room a few paces from her... ...and you're saying, "Give the poor guy a warning shot"? Horsefeathers.

238

In Wichita, KS, BTK (Bind, Torture and Kill), who killed many women, knocked politely on their front door, in a "dog catcher's uniform, wearing a badge" he wanted you to open your door so he could talk to you.  He had a clipboard, and a briefcase full of ropes and plastic bags, and he wanted to get close enough to you to grab you, and over-power you, even if you had a small child in your arms.  Then he tied you up, killed your children if they were causing problems, and had weird sex with you, or mostly on you, until he had enough and then he suffocated you slowly so he could watch your face while you died.  When he came to your front door he had already quietly gone into your backyard and found your phone line and cut it outside the home. 

This Oklahoma case was a no-brainer, who trespasses and then walks around a strangerÂ’s home for 10 to 12 minutes at 12:40 AM in the night, kicking and beating every door and window trying to break it?  A normal person with car trouble, without a cell phone, might just start knocking politely on the front door so you will open it to talk.  You should hope it isnÂ’t BTK.  This intruder clearly knew she was in the house, she had turned on all the lights first to scare him off, he only tried harder to get in, then later she was smart enough to turned the inside lights off again to gain a defensive advantage. 

Some people have suggested that she should have to “shoot the knife or gun out of his hand”, or “shoot him in the leg” donÂ’t consider how fast things are moving.  She also had to shoot a silhouette, who was moving, and had just stepped out of the light into the darkness of her kitchen.  Even police officers who are on the range on a regular basis donÂ’t have the skills to shoot to wound someone.  What if the gun misfires, the next bullet is too old to work, or the gun jams and wonÂ’t fire again, or is a five shot revolver and you miss five times going for the shoulder, since you will probably will miss the shoulder or leg entirely.  The intruder only has to lunge 6 to 10 feet to get his hand on your gun and use it on you or your family.  After listening to the tape this lady, remained calm, immediately called 911, waited and begged for police help for 12 minutes, and then very reluctantly did what most people should do in the same situation.  If you like to get drunk and beat on doors yell for people to let you in, I suggest you get your affairs in order for your heirs.  At least 50% of the homes in America are ready to exercise their right to not be a victim.

239

"Ya, It's a hell of a thing killing a man.  You take all he has and all he will ever have.."

Clint Eastwood in Unforgiven.

240

pajama momma - Great explanation, you have it exactly right, but I live a city of 500,000 and the average day and night response time to my residential area is 18-19 minutes.  That means some are 5 minutes and some are 30 minutes or more.  If you are a woman or man and think the police are your first line of defense, you are exactly what today's violent criminals look for in a homeowner.  Security systems and neighborhood watch signs don't mean anything to a group of 3 thugs, high on meth, hoping to catch you by surprise, take your valuables and leave no eyewitnesses.  If you get 911 dialed fast enough, at least they will have a recording of your murder to help them understand what happened.

241 Thanks Midwest_Pilot, but I'm pretty sure it was KDH that had the great explanation, not me.

242 But I'll take credit for it anyways, just because I'm a rat bastage like that.

243

TheJane, you have no clue what you're talking about.

You don't shoot to wound a bad guy. Bad guy is injured, bad guy lawyers up and sues you for everything you've got, sympathetic jury ruins you, bad guy comes and kills you later.

You shoot to stop the threat. If you're not willing to do that, don't own a gun.

There was a story last year out of Cape Girardeau, Missouri. A woman gets raped. Reports it to the cops, but since it was a stranger she couldn't identify him. A week later, he breaks into the same basement window he broke into before, shuts off her electricity, and heads up the stairs.

When he breaks through the basement door, she ventilates him with the shotgun a friend has lent her.

He raped her once; he was very likely returning to kill her.

Shoot to stop the threat.

244

You are right, KDH is living in the real world, and did a great job explaining it.  We have at least 15 states on the brink of bankruptcy, along with the entire USA.  When one of these states stops sending out unemployment checks, welfare checks, food stamps or stops paying their law enforcement people, you will see the cities turn into New Orleans in 24 to 48 hours with looting for valuables in stores and homes. 

Living in the Midwest, we will at least have more armed citizens defending their families and property.  The big cities with gun control laws, the citizens will experience a living hell.  Even if the police elect to stand their ground and work for free for a few weeks, they will be overpowered by mobs similar to the Rodney King riots.  Stores will be looted first for stuff, money, valuables and food, then they will start working on the homes.  The nicer the homes, the more the mobs will hope to get when the break in and overpower the occupants. 

Sound impossible, ask youself who will loan these states more money?  Obama?  Where will he get enough to fund all the states in need?  What one item of progress is being made to increase employment, business profits and tax revenues?  How many things is Congress working on that are going in the wrong direction and will cause more businesses to shut their doors and let their employees go.  So many new laws and entitlements will place a bigger burden on the producers and shrink business activties and tax revenues at the state and federal levels. I hope I am wrong but if you plan to buy a gun and ammunition and learn hoow to use it after the riots start, you might want to rethink that plan.

245

Police in Minnesota have arrested a man after he allegedly threw a tomato at Sarah Palin that struck two police officers instead.

246

TheJane

Double-tap center mass. If threat is not totally immobilized, REPEAT...

247 It's really that easy..?

248 By the way, your average bathroom, in your average home, really isn't a very good place to hide.  It's small---there's nothing you can hide behind, or under.  Usually it doesn't have any windows to get out of, or, if there are windows, they're small, high up and difficult, if not impossible, to climb out of.  Therefore, once you're inside, you're a sitting duck.  Also, because they're cramped, you won't really be able to fight back, i.e., swing a golf club or baseball bat at your assailant, and you probably won't find anything like that in a bathroom, anyway.  What are you going to do against your attacker?  Squirt the shampoo all over him? 

Furthermore, if, as in this guy's case, he'd already broken the front door, what's to stop him from breaking the bathroom door?  Or, if he's armed, firing through it?

As another poster pointed out, few people outside of Hollywood, or a billionaires' enclave, have fully armed and equipped safe rooms to retire to; that's just a fantasy. 

So, if you get drunk or stoned, do it at home.  Don't go out, crash your car, then stumble up to somebody's door, bellowing, banging windows and shouting threats.  And, if you do, don't be surprised if you aren't exactly met with a warm welcome. 

As for all you guys thinking this was a set-up---you should have been writing for "Monk" before it went off the air!  I can just see the episode now!

MONK:  (Lining up all his pencils) "Well, you see, I could tell, by the handy-wipe she left on the floor, and the used tube of Noxema on the counter, she was really Fifi Baboom-Boom, the notorious lady cat burglar from a few years back!  The man was actually her old partner, Ralphie Ding-Dong, who wanted to know where she'd hidden the buried treasure they'd stolen from Montenegro!  She staged the call to 9/11, then, cleverly had her army of trained cats pull the body outside.  In fact, it was actually one of the cats---fixed up with a human voice box---who made the 9/11 call!

WACKY GIRL ASSISTANT: Cheee, Mr. Monk, yer BRILLIANT!

249 1. I would never shout a warning.
2. The bastard is as good as dead if I am a gunowner and someone is violating my property.
3. If you have not walked in her shoes, don't even try to say woulda, coulda, shoulda. You don't know.

250 OK, ok--point taken. I got it. Shoot to kill. So should I give up my hobby of random midnight patio door inspections? I like to make sure people's doors are realy locked. In the dark.  Cuz I'm a good neighbor that way.

251

For those still interested, the DA announced it was justifiable today.

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