1 Damn.  That's going to require some snide, bumbling resposne from Gibbs that will make me hate him even more, no matter how impossible that may seem at the moment.

2 Can we have him back yet? Or can we send him into Yemen and Pakistan with an unlimited source of shotgun shells and tell him to go hunting?

Bush/Cheney '12.

3 That's nothing.  Obama is also pretending that he is remotely qualified to be POTUS.

4 Wow, Gabe, this AM you're on... wait a minute, where's the guy who says En Fuego! ?

5 "At the most fundamental level Lefitsts take this approach because they want to pretend that we have no enemies."

I disagree. At the most fundamental level, those who identify as leftists, hold to those ideologies that demand the destruction of the US. They may not realize it consciously, and those that do may not be willing to admit it, but the core concept in modern leftism is an allegiance to beliefs and ideologies that demand the US no longer exist.

6 Grimmy beat me to it.

7

Mr. Malor:

I have to disagree with your conclusion -- Leftists don't want to pretend that the U.S. has no enemies but, rather, Leftist think those enemies are justified in their attacks of the U.S. because the U.S. is the root of all evil in the world. 

8 Oooh! Nothing like a Cheney bitch slap to wake you up in the morning. When is the White House presser? 1 p.m.? I can't wait for this one.

9 En cama!

10

Gibbs will be out in a little while with a snide little, "Oh, yeah!  Big fat liar!", statement.

Makes him look so professional and competent.

11 At the most fundamental level Lefitsts take this approach because they want to pretend that we have no enemies.

No. Leftists agree with our enemies.

12 cheney/cheney

13

At the most fundamental level Lefitsts take this approach because they want to pretend that we have no enemies.

Except for Fox News of course.  That's a real war to them.

 

14 11 tmi leftists agree with our enemies because they themselves are our enemy

15 Maybe there are two kinds of Leftists: the ostrich kind and the carnivorous kind.

16 It doesn’t fit with what seems to be the goal of his presidency – social transformation—the restructuring of American society.


Hrmmmm.  Maybe.  Scared citizens are all too willing to yield rights (I remember some discussions about this after 9/11 wrt the Patriot Act) and be herded like sheep in exchange for the comforting illusion of safety.  Rahm's never going to let a crisis to waste, you know...

But there's a lot of infrastructure you have make sure stays in place to achieve the totalitarian control, and no one seems interested in protecting it.

(You know, if jihadis really wanted to fuck us up, they'd blow up the SSA offices in Baltimore, or state offices where government checks are sent out every month.  Or their server farms.  Serious civil unrest when people don't get their money.)

17 "7 Mr. Malor:" Oohh...Gabe got a promotion.

18

Cheney is right about The Vapid One's¹ make-believe world.

All Obama needs to do is click his heels together three times and the world will love us.

19 Leftists are our enemies.

20

The Left believes that peace in and of itself is a virtue: it's not.

Peace without freedom is another name for slavery. North Korea--a veritable concentration camp--is peaceful. The southern plantations before the Civil War were peaceful. I understand solitary confinement is peaceful.

Some forms of "peace" are intolerable. The Left is just too fucking stupid to realize it

21 Cheney just eviscerated The Won's attempt to change reality. More of this, please.

22 14

An even more succinct way of putting it.

23 Zero and his band of merry morons don't much care what Cheney says. But if Palin says it, they will soil their linen.

24 14 11 tmi

leftists agree with our enemies because they themselves are our enemy

Posted by: phoenixgirl at December 30, 2009 10:03 AM (ucxC/)

It's the old enemy of my enemy is my friend paradigm.

25

A typical “Politico” article; start out with what appears on the surface to be “just reporting the facts” and then inject pure BS lies into the article when the suckers have been gulled. Re:

 

Foreshadowing the partyÂ’s strategy for next yearÂ’s midterm congressional elections, GOP officeholders have eschewed the customary partisan restraint following a terrorist incident, and have baldly portrayed Democrats as weak on security.

 

Yes we saw a lot of that “restraint” when Bush was in office.

26

Oh goody..

Six Yemeni men held in the US detention centre at Guantanamo Bay will be repatriated, the Washington Post says.

Quoting unnamed sources, the paper did not specify when the transfer would take place nor did it name the men.

An unnamed Yemen foreign ministry official confirmed the transfer would take place "in the coming days", AFP news agency reported.

Yemenis account for almost half of the 215 detainees at the military base which President Obama plans to close.

They'll be fitted for their explosive undies in no time.

27

Cheney nailed it.  Obama wants to stay in his little intellectual cocoon and pretend we're not in a war with Islamic fascism.  He's not protecting the country.

 

 

28 The President's Most Excellent Hawaiian Adventure Vacation Weather Today: Widespread haze. Sunny, with a high near 71. Light east wind. Widespread haze just about sums it up.

29 23 maddogg hi there.....if palin says it....it brings up all the abandonment issues he has and that's why he gets bent out of shape....plus nothing worse to a muslim than having a woman put you down.....

30 and have baldly portrayed Democrats as weak on security


Translation:  The facts are not on our side.  Quick!  Tell everyone the people mentioning the facts are jerks!

31 Oh, ergie. You really should stop spending time here and spend more time helping clients drive down and contain telecom costs.

32 26 thequietman do we need yemen?

33 Obama is on the other side.

34 Terrorism is easy to see. Easy to recognize. Unless you are an idiot.

35 Fuck you too Bernard, no one invited your opinion!

36 Nobody attacked Kenya, so why should Barry the Hutt care?

37 Hi phoenixgirl. You should come around more often.

38 Who let the assholes in today?

39 "... even remotely looks like 'terrorism' ..." Never good to start an argument by misstating the facts. Demonstrates a lack of intellectual vigor.

40 Yeah #31, or national bankruptcy, or abandonment of the Bill of Rights, or a corrupt Congress or a President with no dick.  Too bad you weren't in one of the Twin Towers in 2001.

41

http://tinyurl.com/yhxmuv5

Some people have wolves as pets, you know. Just saying.

42 Fucking erg is back. I thought someone had shit their pants, from the smell.

43 I remember Michael Moore saying, "There is no terrorist threat, folks." Either blind or a liar, maybe both.

44 37 maddogg i'm here everyday....usually just reading the comments here and at blogmocracy.com over at the coffeeshop in chat most mornings and some nites..... hope you had a nice Christmas and have a great New Year!

45 Fuck you stupid fucking knuckleheads.

Sensitive...tolerant...well-reasoned...celebrates diversity...

Solid B+!

46 Cheney pushed Barry down and took his lunch money. Chris Matthews is going to burst into Plames.

47 Cheney/Cheney's Penis 2012

48 The Left believes that you can have anything you want if you wish hard enough.  The Right believes that you can have anything you want if you work hard enough.  Obama is wishing that the terrorists will leave us alone.  To paraphrase "Spies Like Us":

Research shows that naive "wishing for peace" is the surest way to encourage an aggressor.

49 Hi ergie! Shouldn't you be helping your clients find a more efficient use of their external resources?

50 44 phoenixgirl. Thanks. And returned!

51 "Posted by: Bernard Marx at December 30, 2009 10:19 AM (YFV+t)" It's OK Bernie. You're one of the cool kids.

52 45, Interesting sentence structure, too.

53 naw...it's not that the leftists think we have no enemies...it's that they think WE are the enemy. they HATE western civilization, and they think that by destroying it all evils such as racism, poverty, male chauvinism, etc. will dissappear, never mind that these are human issues, because the west is the scapegoat. the leftists are basically occidentalists, who see the west as a caricature. the west is souless, selfish, greedy, and now with the lefty-environmental-wackos thrown in there you see the evil city vs the pastoral countryside being played out before our very eyes. the west is the evil city of babylon, and the third world, or developing world, is romanticized, and is considered more "pure" and more organic.

54 There is no point in entertaining comments from the erg. He has cut his special ed classes again to play on mommy's computer.

55 Posted by: Bernard Marx at December 30, 2009 10:19 AM (YFV+t)

Cynosure of Failure would make a great name for a band.

56

Cheney/Cheney's Penis 2012

Won't happen, Long Lsland. There's a Constitutional issue that precludes this ticket. Unless Cheney's penis is so big that it resides in a different state ...

... oh, yeah. Never mind.

57

President ObamaÂ’s first object and his highest responsibility must be to defend us against an enemy that knows we are at war.

Cheney is calling out Obambi's dereliction of duty. 

I bet Cheney is going to bring this up more and more in the coming weeks and months.  It's as if he is making a case for impeachment.  Never going to happen, but talk like this will certainly weaken Obambi and raise more questions about his "leadership" and purpose.

58 49, Keep going, bring it all out.

59

@ 31

Gee, the Axelturfers are up early this morning.

Where to begin to dissect your apparent dementia? This dull fuckhead recognizes that an act of terrorism is wanting to blow up a plane full of innocent travelers on Christmas Day isn't "remote".

I also recognize that putting the trained terrorist in jail with a court appointed defender will keep us from learning of any other impending attacks, as it's supposed to. This is at Barry's behest.

Really, you can't keep up with us here and you know it. Now, please go ask your mommy to fix you some breakfast. You're cranky when you're hungry.

60 49 Bernard,

If a frog had wings he wouldn't bump his ass on the ground either, go fuck yourself idiot!

61

He seems to think if he has a low key response to an attempt to blow up an airliner and kill hundreds of people, we wonÂ’t be at war.

Hey, he had to finish his waffles and interupt his Hawaiian vacation for this incovenience.

62 bernie is channeling the potus

63

40 or a President with no dick

I'll take that in 2012, IYKWIMAITYD.

64 If the White House was bombed today, or a nuclear weapon detonated in Manhattan , it'd be the happiest day of your knucklehead lives.

If it led to actually prosecuting the war against our enemies, who will do both those things as soon as they think they can, then yes, it would.

The White House is packed solid with enemies of the United States. Manhattan, well, there's a lot of innocents there; most of them voted for Obama, but that doesn't necessarily make them enemies, just stupid. You can't wish for the death of stupid people unless they're directly and immediately threatening your life.

65

At the most fundamental level Lefitsts take this approach because they want to pretend that we have no enemies.

The school of thought is "alienism," the faith in "they, them, and theirs." Whoever's on the outside, not part of "us," should have the upper hand.

Their favorite quote is from the leftist Walt Kelly's comic strip, Pogo: "We have met the enemy, and he is us."

66 63 bat chain puller a eunuch?

67 and have baldly portrayed Democrats as weak on security.

and have HONESTLY portrayed Democrats as weak on security.

68

Seriously, I wish for President Obama to succeed at this most basic part of his job. I wish for his administration to take the terrorist threat for what it is: evil and unrelenting. I wish Obama and his ...

(... be right back; gotta wash my other hand.)

69 I am declaring a National CYA Emergency in all levels of Government. Back Peddle Condition 5 is now in effect. All Pass the Buck Systems are ordered to Alert Status Trojan. Repeat. All Pass the Buck Systems are ordered to Alert Status Trojan.

70 it'd be the happiest day of your knucklehead lives.

Posted by: Bernard Marx at December 30, 2009 10:28 AM (YFV+t)

That would be the day that you cut your worthless throat

71 I sure hope the right of center that is going on TV to talk about profiling just drops that nonsense.  It's a gift to their opponents that will just rail against profiling when the issue here is quite simple.  Don't let people on watch lists board aircraft destined for the United States without a full body search and an escort.

72 #63, on second thought, SP would be perfect as long as she stops being so damned nice.

73 66 Come on, think about it.

74      And when Barack closes his eyes he becomes invisible. 

75 73 bat chain puller i was pulling the bat chain

76 Hey Bernie, why don't you and Barry sit on Dick Cheney's Mighty WarCock and Pivot???

77 The Mighty Cheney War Cock has spoken, All tremble at it's mightiness or something.

78 Modo has spanked Barry. It's at Hot Air.

79 Obama depended on many fictions to get himself elected. One of them was the myth of Islamic terrorism being a response to the evil George W. Bush. As these fictions collapse around him he is finding himself trapped by his own words and philosophy. I sincerely hope he doesn't panic and do something stupid.

80

Woof!  My hat's off to you, Mr. VP!  That was such a bitch slap, even my face is red!

Oh, and Bernard - why don't you go down to the library and peruse the newspapers and magazines that the MSM vomited out over the last eight years.  Immerse yourself in the wet dreams of all the lefties who brayed about how much they hated Bush - how much they wanted 'millions of Mogadishus' or 'I pray for the war in Iraq to go badly' or sneered 'screw them' to every one of our troops who died in that godforsaken land.

Then look at the current band of traitors, thieves and scum who infest the Congress.  Shall we talk about "catastrophe and fear"? -

The Rethuglicans want to take away your Social Security!  They want you to die!  They want to gut the programs that prvide for the neediest among us!  They get their rocks off watching soldiers die!  They're in the pocket of BigOil/Pharma/Food/Tobacco and aren't paying their fair share!

Fuck off and die, Bernard.  Disloyal cockholsters like you aren't fit to pick out the pubes from Cheney's jockstrap.

81 Dammit I took the time to search for any mention of the Mighty WarCock and Hillary slips it right in. So to speak.

82 I have seen alot of articles like that in places like the Politico today. All of them mention Bush, all of them every fucking one. It is almost as if they are trying too hard to deflect any sort of blame on to the mary we have in office. Anyone that starts a sentence off with "but Bush" should be smacked in the face with a cold tuna.

83 79,

I don't think him holding his breath for 30 min. would be stupid at all.

84 Hillary, resign now and write a book about what happened in the last two years.

85 75 Got me. Good one.

86 Posted by: eman at December 30, 2009 10:44 AM (Cctty) Best idea I've seen today.

87 But Bush is the most powerful force in the Universe

88 Modo has spanked Barry.

It was more a mild scolding than a spanking.  She spent more time reminding us that Bush was really bad.

89

Why must you all hate on our beautiful new President? He is trying his best, bad things happen and he is doing his best to correct them now. They caught the guy and he is not in prison, can't we all come together and just celebrate that fact for a minute before we tear eachother apart? It is not like we have bush still in office muking things up so bad and invading another country based on lies, we had a failed terrorist attack. Sit down and take a calming breath. Then let's unite behind our new President and win this thing. We need to make sure this doesn't happen again, find these terrorist before they attack us or plan an attack and prosecute them. It is the only way forward, together.

90

SAN'A, Yemen – A Yemeni security official says forces have stormed an al-Qaida hide-out in the country's west, setting off clashes.

A government statement confirmed the clashes and said at least one suspected al-Qaida member was arrested.

I hope that they read this isolated extremist/suspect his rights and that there was a lawyer present during the whole clash to make sure that Yemeni security forces didn't use excessive force.

91

@Bernard Marx at December 30, 2009 10:19 AM (YFV+t)

It's really weird how you dull fuckheads latch onto anything that even remotely looks like "terrorism" and force the event as cynosure of failure of O to protect "us."

"Remotely looks like terrorism"?  Like 9/11, the shoe bomber, and Abdulmutallab.  What's your take, "man-caused disasters"? 

Shithead.

But you don't want "us" protected at all. You pray for such failure, and the more massive and violent, the better! Catastrophe and fear is your ideology's core of fire.

The worst (epic) failure from which we need protection is B. Hussein Obama. With marxist milksops like "O", who the fuck needs Al Qaeda?

It's terror, and muslims, or mexicans!, or socialism and other red-baits.

Nah, it's lobotomized leftwing fucktards like you who make us wish we could exchange 3000 of you for the innocents who were slaughtered by Islamic terrorists on 9/11.

Like Mr. HopeyChangeytude, you're not bright enough to connect the straight line from terrorism to Islam.

Dickbag.

92 We need to make sure this doesn't happen again, find these terrorist before they attack us or plan an attack and prosecute them.

Actually, we need to sit down with them and find out why they are upset with us.  Maybe we can have a Camel-Milk summit.  If we can make them love us, they won't kill us.

93 They closed comments on that Modo bit.

Celebrate diversity!

94 53 naw...it's not that the leftists think we have no enemies...it's that they think WE are the enemy. they HATE western civilization, and they think that by destroying it all evils such as racism, poverty, male chauvinism, etc. will dissappear, never mind that these are human issues, because the west is the scapegoat. the leftists are basically occidentalists, who see the west as a caricature. the west is souless, selfish, greedy, and now with the lefty-environmental-wackos thrown in there you see the evil city vs the pastoral countryside being played out before our very eyes. the west is the evil city of babylon, and the third world, or developing world, is romanticized, and is considered more "pure" and more organic.

Beautiful summary of Leftist thought! One of the best I've read.

95

49 If the White House was bombed today, ....it'd be the happiest day of your knucklehead lives.

Barky's on vacation today...in Hawaii

96 #82
But Bush did better.  There, hope that helps.

97 I wish I had asked Santa for a better class of trolls.

98  I remember Michael Moore saying,

"There is no terrorist threat, folks."

Well, for him and Obama there is no threat as they travel private.  It's the average citizen who is in trouble.

99 89,

Yes we should hand them some paints and an easel and softly ask them to express their thoughts peacefully, works for me Mr. Progressive dorkbat!

100

Foreshadowing the partyÂ’s strategy for next yearÂ’s midterm congressional elections, GOP officeholders have eschewed the customary partisan restraint following a terrorist incident, and have baldly portrayed Democrats as weak on security.

 

And now we know the leftist strategy for the 2010 elections.

101 27 Cheney nailed it.  Obama wants to stay in his little intellectual cocoon and pretend we're not in a war with Islamic fascism.  He's not protecting the country.

I think Cheney is being polite.

Obama et al hate America. The jihadists hate America. So they are natural allies. There is no reason to go after them because a jihadist attack with massive casualities would give Obama a reason to:

1. Surrender to Islam
2. Declare himself President for Life.
3. Turn the USA into the USSA

All of which really wouldn't bother the jihadists.

102 At the most fundamental level Lefitsts take this approach because they want to pretend that we have no enemies.

I'd have to say that leftists fundamentally take this approach because in their warped psychology, tragedy equates to opportunity. They are perfectly willing to present America as the sacrificial lamb in order that the advance of statism may be expedited. To the leftist, the life and liberty of the individual is meaningless. The aggregation of collective authority is all that matters.  

103 Have you folks watched the talking heads on TV sit there and pretend that the statement made by the President on the 29th was the same as the one he made on the 30th?

The statements are not the same.  The 29th is a "shit, I have to say something" statement.  The 30th is a "that statement yesterday was a fucking joke.  I'm POTUS.  Time to start being POTUS and stop running for it."

"systemic failure"
"unacceptable"

104  Have you folks watched the talking heads on TV sit there and pretend that the statement made by the President on the 29th was the same as the one he made on the 30th?

The statements are not the same.  The 29th is a "shit, I have to say something" statement.  The 30th is a "that statement yesterday was a fucking joke.  I'm POTUS.  Time to start being POTUS and stop running for it."

"systemic failure"
"unacceptable"

Posted by: WTFCI at December 30, 2009 10:59 AM (GtYrq)

Oceania has always been at war with Eurasia, comrade.

105 Leftists have proven they cannot be trusted to run the country. Maybe we could give them an island to destroy any way they like?

106

So if LDS have magic underwear do you think the yemen terrorists have magic underwear too? Albeit a more explosive destructive devious pair of magic underwear. Comes with the fail fuse built in!

107 Cheney & Yoo en fuego!

108 Leftists have proven they cannot be trusted to run the country. Maybe we could give them an island to destroy any way they like?

Posted by: Simon at December 30, 2009 11:02 AM (/d/hV)

They've already done that with the workers paradise of Cuba.

109

@Mr. Proggressive at December 30, 2009 10:52 AM (SqAkN)

Is that a joke? Are you really that dense?

Gee, all THE ONE has to do, is ring up the Islamic terrorist wackjobs and say 'Can't we all just get along'. Maybe theyÂ’ll put away their AKs, IEDs and homicide bombs, and stop trying to kill the 'infidel' for allah. They'll all hold hands and sing Kumbaya.

Uh huh.

Now, go back to the nice, safe place in your mama's basement.

 

110 I have seen alot of articles like that in places like the Politico today. All of them mention Bush, all of them every fucking one.

Oh, to have a link into JournoList this week.  The arguments on how best to protect Apophis must have been epic.

111 Obama campaigned, won, and presides as Not Bush/Cheney.
Bush/Cheney put national defense first and foremost.
Therefore Obama must not put national defense first and foremost.

112

"Gee, all THE ONE has to do, is ring up the Islamic terrorist wackjobs and say 'Can't we all just get along'."

I never said that. I said we need to come together and find these guys before they attack us or plan an attack and prosecute them. Please help our new President do his job and defend us all.

113

Oh, to have a link into JournoList this week.  The arguments on how best to protect Apophis must have been epic.

I thought it was just me who saw Obama as the spitting image of Apophis.

114 Looks like I'll have to make three or four different retorts to this racist rant! ... ... OsamaHusseinIslamObama 2012' (the terrorist-Uighur-ACORN-media choice) -It's never too early to campaign-

115 112,

Nah, I would rather work tirelessly to get the dumbass out of office!

116 I think Mr. Proggressive is a sock

117 From American Thinker:

_{^{Top Ten reasons it took Obama 3 days to respond to terror attempt}} William Tate

Barack Obama has received considerable criticism for waiting three days to address the attempted Christmas Day bombing of Northwest Flight 253. In the holiday spirit of giving, I would like to offer Obama ... the Top 10 excuses Obama can use for why it took him so long to speak up.

10. My teleprompter was on vacation last week.

9. Polishing a Nobel Prize takes longer than you think.

8. It was Bush's fault. (Hey, it worked last year.)

7. The waves here in Hawaii are bitchen, dude.

6. Janet Napolitano said the system worked great, even if I couldn't get email on my Blackberry for a while there.

5. This sort of thing just ain't supposed to happen on my watch.

4. It was Bush's fault.

3. Axelrod never told me I'd have to work holidays.

2. I was busy celebrating Festivus.

And the Number One excuse Obama can give for taking so long to respond to the attempted attack on Northwest Flight 253:

I was busy looking for my birth certificate.

118 Mr. Proggressive, We need to find these guys and kill them. We need to destroy whatever it is out there that nurtures, trains, and supports them. Yemen, for example, needs to be crushed and rebuilt into something much better for all.

119 I never said that. I said we need to come together and find these guys before they attack us or plan an attack and prosecute them.

Prosecute????  That's the problem.  We shouldn't be prosecuting them; we should be blowing their fucking heads off.

120

"We need to find these guys and kill them."

That way just breeds more terrorism. We need to catch them and prosecute them, BEFORE THEY PLAN AND EXECUTE AN ATTACK.

121

erg, let's talk about unwanted publicity, shall we?

122 The nigerian should have been sent to Gitmo on a rope behind a fast boat!

123

I never said that. I said we need to come together and find these guys before they attack us or plan an attack and prosecute them. Please help our new President do his job and defend us all.

Posted by: Mr. Proggressive at December 30, 2009 11:07 AM (SqAkN)

Sure, if he actually had a plan or a strategy for defense. Have you paid attention to his (lack of) actions and his detached speeches? He hasn't a clue as to what his job is. He can't find his own ass with two hands a map and a compass.

He doesn't take Islamic terrorism, or the POTUS job very seriously. His DHS chief, Janet Napolitano, thinks returning Iraq War veterans constitute more of a "threat" than Islamic jihadists. 

Until this douchenozzle is kicked out in 2012, I will continue to work against his socialist agenda, his pusillanimous foreign policy, and his vapid approach to Islamic terrorism.

.

124

89 Why must you all hate on our beautiful new President?

now dats sum funny chit rite dar!!

 

125

Yemen, for example, needs to be crushed and rebuilt into something much better for all.

FIFY

126 Terrorists don't care what we do - they only care that we are.  It's not our actions that have caused them to seek to murder as many of us as they can; we are "infidels", and therefore must be exterminated.

There is no negotiating with them.  Back in 2007 Obama made a speech where he proudly proclaimed that we would be a safer nation under his presidency because he is a good listener.  His hubris and arrogance nearly got 300 people on that plane and untold scores of others on the ground killed on Christmas day, all because he thought his Cairo speech and super duper ability to listen to the muslim world would cause them to not want to hurt us.

I will not join with such a President in his goal to make nice-nice with terrorist murderous thugs.  I will hope and pray he gets the clue bat upside his head and realizes that our only safe course of action is to seek and destroy.

127 Mr. Prog is a sock. Or erg. Is there a difference anymore?

128

That way just breeds more terrorism. We need to catch them and prosecute them, BEFORE THEY PLAN AND EXECUTE AN ATTACK.

Posted by: Mr. Proggressive at December 30, 2009 11:14 AM (SqAkN)

That's a brilliant idea. It sounds like something Dummy would dream up. Keep up the good work Mr. Sock Proggressive.

129 "Prosecute them"?  You mean like, give them the same rights enjoyed by US citizens? 

Laughable.  And incredibly naiive. 

130 We need to catch them and prosecute them, BEFORE THEY PLAN AND EXECUTE AN ATTACK.

Prosecute them for what exactly?  They aren't in the U.S. (for the most part.)  How can we arrest them much less prosecute them?

I have heard some stupid ideas, but this may take the cake.

131 Yes. Let's send more troops into Yemen. Brilliant!

Get into another war we can't win and spend trillions!

Why war criminals get a voice in this is beyond me.

In case nobody has been watching, Obama has taken the fight to Afghanistan, Pakistand, and YEMEN at a much higher engagement than Cheney did.

132

That way just breeds more terrorism. We need to catch them and prosecute them, BEFORE THEY PLAN AND EXECUTE AN ATTACK.

Posted by: Mr. Proggressive at December 30, 2009 11:14 AM (SqAkN)

Holy shit. Do you know anything about counter-terrorism and what it takes to track and stop it.

This is not a law enforcement problem, it's an act of WAR.

Besides that, if we were to use your convoluted logic, retaliating against the Imperialist Japanese, Fascist Italians, and Nazi Germans, just "created more enemies".

Newsflash: We've ALREADY been attacked. We can KILL them BEFORE THEY ARE ABLE TO PLAN AND EXECUTE AN ATTACK.

It's called a pre-emptive strike. Or in this case, just another round of counter-fire.

133 "I disagree. At the most fundamental level, those who identify as leftists, hold to those ideologies that demand the destruction of the US. They may not realize it consciously, and those that do may not be willing to admit it, but the core concept in modern leftism is an allegiance to beliefs and ideologies that demand the US no longer exist."

The close mindness of this statement is stunning.

And by the way... conservatism is very much against nation building. Especially in cultures with so little in common with ours.

But let's not have actual conservative policy get in the way of the hatred.

134 It's going to cost 75 million dollars for security in NYC to punish those savages when they could have done it at Gitmo for free, because security is already in place another bright leftist move, you guys just suck with idiocy!!!

135 Okay, that picture's not right... ...yeah, it is....

136 In case nobody has been watching, Obama has taken the fight to Afghanistan, Pakistand, and YEMEN at a much higher engagement than Cheney did.

Posted by: Cam at December 30, 2009 11:21 AM (MN+T/)

Now unlike Mr. Proggressive, Cammy here is a real live liberal idiot. He's got his head so far up Barry's ass he could swing from his tonsils.

137 Please help our new President do his job and defend us all.

IF he showed any backbone for the job I would. But, I have little hope of that happening.

138 I get it why the crazies are out early this morning, it's a full blue moon tomorrow night, they're getting an early start on their stupidity.

139 "Now unlike Mr. Proggressive, Cammy here is a real live liberal idiot. He's got his head so far up Barry's ass he could swing from his tonsils."

Great counter point. So much insight and intelligence.

Thanks for that.

Go ahead and spend your trillions fighting unwinnable wars around the world. Every empire falls that way.

You are bin Laden's dream. He smiles every time someone says send more troops to the Middle East.

That is his plan. Maybe you should read it. Its been out there for years.

140 Oh... and by the way... Obama has brought troop levels to their highest levels in Afghanistan, he's had many more attacks in Pakistan than the previous administration and he's had attacks in Yemen already. One Christmas morning in case you weren't paying attention.

So... ironically, he's being more aggressive here than the people you want to bring back.

Then again... I should have realized that pointing out facts wouldn't work here. Its all about the hate.

141 he proudly proclaimed that we would be a safer nation under his presidency because he is a good listener.

I can't believe so many people were stupid enough to fall for that shit.

142 Its all about the hate.

Oh, that's precious.  I do love it when our friends on the left try to pretend they didn't throw an eight-year spittle-flecked temper tantrum.

143

Posted by: Cam at December 30, 2009 11:23 AM (MN+T/)

The close mindness of this statement is stunning.

Not according to the leftwing mindset.  Patriotism, loyalty to the country, and unity against our enemies isn't exactly their strong suit.  Drop in on the DailyKos, HuffPo. Read columns by Paul Krugman, Andrew Sullivan, Howard Zinn, Frank Rich, and Ted Rall.

Their allegiance and ideologies are diametrically opposed to the U.S., period.

And by the way... conservatism is very much against nation building. Especially in cultures with so little in common with ours.

Like Japan after WWII?

But let's not have actual conservative policy get in the way of the hatred.

Let's not let the facts get in the way of a good nihilist rant.

144 "Oh, that's precious.  I do love it when our friends on the left try to pretend they didn't throw an eight-year spittle-flecked temper tantrum."

I never said such a thing.

And if your point is that you are being as hateful as many on the left during Bush's admin, I'd agree.

You are as dumb now as they were then.

145

Go ahead and spend your trillions fighting unwinnable wars around the world. Every empire falls that way.

Bullshit. The Romans fell because they couldn't be bothered to defend themselves anymore.

146 As Obama waffles (and golfs, and surfs, and sunbathes...) over what to say in order to make people forget what he said yesterday, his supporters find themselves  without clear talking points. So they fall back on what they've always relied on before, the "blame America/Bush" meme. They're slow to realize that outside of moonbat circles, their excuses ring profoundly hollow. We elected "Change" did we not? Obama spent a whole new galaxy of money, did he not? We have a new place in the eyes of the world, do we not? And still wealthy Muslim men are trying to slaughter us wholesale.
 The Obama doctrine has always been a figment of a delusional worldview. While the President drones on about "alleged suspects" and "isolated extremists", thinking people are holding their breath waiting for the Administration to come to grips with reality.

147

Great counter point. So much insight and intelligence.

Posted by: Cam at December 30, 2009 11:31 AM (MN+T/)

There's no point debating someone as stupid as you are. You're a brain dead Obamazombie. A pathetic non thinking spout the party line asswipe. How's that for a counterpoint?

148
"Peace without freedom is another name for slavery. North Korea--a veritable concentration camp--is peaceful. The southern plantations before the Civil War were peaceful. I understand solitary confinement is peaceful."

Not exactly: they appear peaceful, but they aren't really because that degree of control can be maintained only by violence. There's a reason why slavery requires shackles and whipping blocks and branding irons.

However, it's possible for the masters in the big house to pretend that all is sweetness and light on the plantation because they're careful to insulate themselves from the reality of what their tyranny requires.

So, what Leftists want isn't peace: it's peace of mind - their minds, of course, since they fully intend to be the master caste once their revolution is complete. That's why their revolution requires the crushing of freedom of speech above all: that's the only way they can maintain the fiction of peace.

Of all the threats facing our republic, the fact that the mass media have fallen into the hands of the sycophants of power is the worst. They've been offered a place in the big house in return for their cooperation, and, whores that they are, they are quite happy to accept that offer.

149 Their allegiance and ideologies are diametrically opposed to the U.S., period.

Just because you can list a bunch of other close minded people doesn't mean you aren't closed minded.

And just beacuse someone doesn't agree with you means they are opposed to the U.S.

Like Japan after WWII?

So are you saying that conservatism is in favor of nation buiding???? That would be an amazing statement.

150 Go ahead and spend your trillions fighting unwinnable wars around the world. Every empire falls that way.

You are bin Laden's dream. He smiles every time someone says send more troops to the Middle East.

That is his plan. Maybe you should read it. Its been out there for years.

Posted by: Cam at December 30, 2009 11:29 AM (MN+T/)

Unwinnable....where have I heard that before...ah yes, Harry (white flag) Reid. There's no such thing as "unwinnable" unless you're unwilling to win.

So far, all I've seen is piecemeal effort.

Wanna kill Bin Laden and his dream? I'd have leveled several countries in the ME into parking lots on 9/12. That's how you fight a jihad. But, I'm a former Soldier and Iraq War veteran, not a politician.

 

151

...during Bush's admin...

The battle cry of the Democratic party.

I'd hate to be the first one to let you know about this...but this is played out.

152 Wow, Gabe, this AM you're on... wait a minute, where's the guy who says En Fuego! ?

That was the panty bomber...

153 Yo,, cam,,, call me!!....................OsamaHusseinIslamObama 2012' (the terrorist-Uighur-ACORN-media choice) -It's never too early to campaign-

154

Some buddies and I decided last spring to play the "drinking game": every time Obama blamed Bush we took a shot of  Jägermeister.

We're all hopeless drunks now.  Tried 12-step , too late.   Now we just fight over the best  steam grates.

 

155 Cam, you honestly believe leftists do not want an end to the United States?!

The problem with that belief is I've heard them say it. I've read their words. I've seen them proclaim it.

Look at illegal immigration. You'd think the left would side with low-skill US workers to keep them from being undercut by illegals. You'd think the left would cheer workplace raids that catch businesses hiring illegals. But they don't; in fact they hate immigration enforcement of any type. Why? Because illegal immigration erodes US sovereignty and the very concept of the US as a nation and culture. That goal is so precious to the left they toss their supposed love of the little guy and hatred for abusive business aside.

156 I never said such a thing.

And if your point is that you are being as hateful as many on the left during Bush's admin, I'd agree.

You are as dumb now as they were then.

No, I'm saying that it's cute watching those on the left criticize conservatives for engaging in a milder form of the derangement that liberals wallowed in for eight years.  I'm not suggesting turnabout is fair play, but instead just pointing out that the left's inability to control itself then makes their criticism now ring hollow.

157

nation buiding

That is a very broad and vague statement...and I would like to hear what your definition of the word "is" is...

158 "There's no point debating someone as stupid as you are. You're a brain dead Obamazombie. A pathetic non thinking spout the party line asswipe. How's that for a counterpoint?"

That's about what I'd expect from this board.

I point out that Obama is actually being more aggressive in this area with his military action by actually laying out the actions he is following up on and I am called an idiot.

That is so perfect!

159

And just beacuse someone doesn't agree with you means they are opposed to the U.S.

No, but when they say they hate the US, that they want to see it torn down, that they want to kill millions of US citizens in order to construct their supposed paradise... that's the way to bet.

(You know, like Obama's old friend Bill Ayers.)

160 cam, we won in Iraq.

161
I point out that Obama is actually being more aggressive in this area with his military action by actually laying out the actions he is following up on and I am called an idiot.

Nah. You're called an idiot for denying the depth of the left's hatred for the US.

162 No, I'm saying that it's cute watching those on the left criticize conservatives for engaging in a milder form of the derangement that liberals wallowed in for eight years.  I'm not suggesting turnabout is fair play, but instead just pointing out that the left's inability to control itself then makes their criticism now ring hollow.

First, I don't think its any milder.

Second, i think both criticism's rang/ring hollow.

Verty few things are black and white in politics or strategy. Both sides treat it like it is.

163 I point out that Obama is actually being more aggressive in this area with his military action by actually laying out the actions he is following up on and I am called an idiot.

That is so perfect!

Posted by: Cam at December 30, 2009 11:42 AM (MN+T/)

For 18 whole months he's going to increase troop levels then leave. That ought to work like a charm. You're so fucking stupid you should get a job with the Lame Stream Media.

164 Nah. You're called an idiot for denying the depth of the left's hatred for the US.

I actually think you hate the "US" as much as they do. You love your version of it and hate theirs. The left loves thier version of it and hates yours.

Two sides of the same coin

Both blinded by hate.

165 Posted by: Rob Crawford at December 30, 2009 11:41 AM (ZJ/un)

You mean like this?
http://tinyurl.com/yemxdqu

166 The one feature the Left loves with all their heart is the doctrine they were all brainwashed with in school- people of color are blameless due to white oppression. The War on Terror puts the lie to this view- so they try and manage affairs without having to abandon this cherished belief. Half-measure and idiotic rules ensue. And people (Ft. Hood) are reclassified as "tragedies". Don't ever forget Obamas initial reaction after 9/11(see above)- thats all you need to know about him.

167 For 18 whole months he's going to increase troop levels then leave. That ought to work like a charm. You're so fucking stupid you should get a job with the Lame Stream Media.

I never said I agreed with the strategy. I just pointed out that he is being much more aggressive in Afghan than the previous administration.

As far as a job in the media, you clearly couldn't get one because just in those 2 sentences you drew a conclusion from something i never said. That's terrible journalism.

168 Did Obama catch Osama yet?

He promised me he would.

169 I point out that Obama is actually being more aggressive in this area with his military action by actually laying out the actions he is following up on and I am called an idiot.

He ran on a campaign of "win in Afghanistan", pledged to commit to the battle, agreed with HIS general in charge of the conflict, and still took 4 months to make a decision.  Which by the way was not the request amount of commitment (30k vs recommended 40k).  Sure doesn't sound like the kind of followup that I would be bragging about. Bush at least gave his generals what they asked for.

And it isn't trillions that are being spent. The only trillions are the deficit numbers being piled up by your beautiful president. Bush was at 400 billion in deficit. He's responsible for half of TARP, which is 350 billion. Now what is the deficit?  Take your time, math is hard.

And yes, that is an idiotic statement. I have no idea if your IQ is below the idiot level so I can't define you at that clinical level, but at face value that is the only conclusion that can be reached.

170

Cam, explain to us why it's OK to use drones to swoop down on Al Qaeda camps abroad and obliterate them and their inhabitants without warning, before they actually carry out plots against us, BUT to grant constitutional rights, civilian trials  and lawyering up to Al Qaeda perps caught while engaging in terrorist acts against us here at home, or after pursuring and capturing them abroad.

Wrap yer tiny brain cell around that one, will you?

171 it's cute watching those on the left criticize conservatives for engaging in a milder form of the derangement that liberals wallowed in for eight years.

Kinda like their bitching about Bush's budget deficit while Barry's skyrockets out of control.   Obama spent more in a year than Bush did in six, but Bush was WRONG, dammit.

172 Bush at least gave his generals what they asked for.

No president ever gives commanders all that they asked for. Bush actually fired guys who disagreed with him. I don't really have a problem with that either.

I'm just point out how full of crap your statement is.

173 We need to reprogram our cruise missiles to broadcast the Cairo speech and drop iPods containing Barry's top ten speeches.

174 Both blinded by hate.

Posted by: Cam at December 30, 2009 11:46 AM (MN+T/)

Coming from the guy blinded by his love of Barry.

175 >>I actually think you hate the "US" as much as they do. You love your version of it and hate theirs. The left loves thier version of it and hates yours. Which demonstrates how little you know. The US the left loves has never existed, they are constantly trying to invent it with dumb ass policies and cries of "social justice". Conservatives love the values this country was founded on and seek to conserve them hence the name conservative. I personally hate the version of the US the liberals are trying to impose on me. If you don't like it, eat a dick.

176

Cam, explain to us why it's OK to use drones to swoop down on Al Qaeda camps abroad and obliterate them and their inhabitants without warning, before they actually carry out plots against us, BUT to grant constitutional rights, civilian trials  and lawyering up to Al Qaeda perps caught while engaging in terrorist acts against us here at home, or after pursuring and capturing them abroad.

Wrap yer tiny brain cell around that one, will you?

I think this is a very difficult problem. I think that Bush struggled with this too. They came up with a few pilot programs, but didn't really stick to any of them.

We are in a new age right now and the old rules don't apply. We are trying different things.

And just so you know, Bush used the criminal system quite a bit for terrorists. Obama is just using it more.

The Shoe Bomber was convicted in the US as were many other terrorists.

I don't have any good answers. I think there's great risks to both sides.

Most intelligence folks seem to think that the specter of torture facilities greatly works for the enemy in recruiting. I have to defer to their opinion on that.

So I agree with Bush's decision to start closing Guantanmo and Obama's further pursuit of it. I'm just not sure what the right policy is.

177
I actually think you hate the "US" as much as they do. You love your version of it and hate theirs. The left loves thier version of it and hates yours.

You really can't be this ignorant, can you? Listen to what the left actually says about the United States; there's no love there.

178 First, I don't think its any milder.

Ah, so our choices are dishonest or ignorant.  Neither is much fun to deal with, so I'll spend my time elsewhere.  Good day.

179 Bush did give what he was asked for. Please point out what was not given to the generals.  Of course it had to be accounted for, proven worthy, and had demonstrable value. 

All of which was provided by McChrystal, but Obama still short sheeted him. Plus the timetable put in place.  Every tactician worth a crap will tell you how stupid that part of the plan is.

Please, try again.

180

http://tiny.cc/vIy1R

Obama is using the Soros Doctrine for dealing with terrorism.

181 Bush actually fired guys who disagreed with him.

BS.

182

"We are in a new age right now and the old rules don't apply. We are trying different things."

Holy fucking stupid Batman!

183 I personally hate the version of the US the liberals are trying to impose on me. If you don't like it, eat a dick.

Such a great line. Goes in the hall of fame.

The "liberals" hated the agenda the "conservatives" were imposing on them. So you have alot in common with them. Mutual hate.

And even with all that hate... you still remain so classy!

184 Bush actually fired guys who disagreed with him.

BS.

Pace is one. Shinseki is another.

When you are the president, that is your call. I have no problem with that. But to say that a president must listen to his generals all the time is ridiculous.

Should my boss do whatever I say. No. He's my boss. Its his call. It was Bush's call. All the power to him. Its now Obama's. All the power to him.

185

"The "liberals" hated the agenda the "conservatives" were imposing on them. So you have alot in common with them. Mutual hate."

You mean the agenda they were born dealing with and the one that requires none of their property or theft of their labor to enact? That is an awful lot of "imposing" right there. Tell us next the one about conservatives trying to force people to buy a product or using their tax dollars to nationalize GM and turn it into a perpetual blackhole of tax dollars.

186 Oh, I see. We are rooting for terrorism so The Won will be discredited.

Is that all you got? You guys are gonna crash and burn in 2010. None too soon.

We need to find a way to attract a better class of troll. This one is teh stupid.

187

The "conservatives" hated

Like the man who bites conservative fingers off?

Like the viscious SEIU beating of a man?

Like the Eco-Terrorists burning down Hummer dealerships?

Like the riots outside the G8 or Climate Change summit?

Stay classy left...

 

188

"Should my boss do whatever I say. No. He's my boss. Its his call. It was Bush's call. All the power to him. Its now Obama's. All the power to him."

You literally have the most ass backward idea of American government that  I have ever read on the internet.

"All the power to him." Dude seriously?

189

"We are in a new age right now and the old rules don't apply. We are trying different things."

Holy fucking stupid Batman!

Again... another beautifully insightful comment!

We are having to defend our selves from stateless terrorism. We've never had to do that before. The old ways we had of doing things won't work here. We need to figure it out as we go along. We need to do things like change laws (like the Patriot Act) to change our abilities to neutralize the enemy.

190 Just because you can list a bunch of other close minded people doesn't mean you aren't closed minded.

And just beacuse someone doesn't agree with you means they are opposed to the U.S.

Like Japan after WWII?

So are you saying that conservatism is in favor of nation buiding???? That would be an amazing statement.

Posted by: Cam at December 30, 2009 11:38 AM (MN+T/)

Some people's minds are so open, their brains fall out.

Just because they don't agree with me? Most of them want to replace democracy with a form of their own tailored socialism. Obama and his socialist cabinet are working on that; destroying the economy and national security, but  keep an open mind.

My point about Japan, and I know you missed it, was in spite of the "culture differences", the MacArthur doctrine helped modernized that country and introduce democracy to  their people. 

What kills me is that someone would use the term "conservative" when making an excuse not to have an all-out war against an enemy who attacked the United States. ("unwinnable")

So... ironically, he's being more aggressive here than the people you want to bring back.

He is?  He gave General McCrystal only some of the troops he asked for, and that was only after sharp criticism for his "strategy"; which according to Obama, doesn't involve winning.

"Obama has put securing Afghanistan near the top of his foreign policy agenda, but “victory” in the war-torn country isn’t necessarily the United States’ goal, he said Thursday in a TV interview."
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/ 2009/07/23/obama-victory-necessarily-goal-afghanistan/

Then again... I should have realized that pointing out facts wouldn't work here. Its all about the hate.

Things I hate:

Barack Obama and his Democrat contingency in Congress and Senate are stomping all over the Constitution and dismantling individual rights.  They believe they are above the law. They are arrogant, smug, self-absorbed, conceited autocrats who circumvent the Constitution behind closed doors and away from the American public.

A POTUS who doesn't have American interests at the heart of our foreign policy, lacks tough diplomacy backed up with decisive action, who's kowtowing to the world’s despots makes Jimmy Carter look ‘presidential’.
He vacillates on Afghanistan, putting the lives of American troops in danger and gives the Taliban encouragement to simply wait out the storm while THE ONE takes his time formulating a Â’strategyÂ’. 

Gawd knows there's A LOT to hate.

191 Bush did give what he was asked for. Please point out what was not given to the generals.  Of course it had to be accounted for, proven worthy, and had demonstrable value.

1. Armor. There wasn't enough.
2. More troops in Afgahn. That was asked for right from the start. They never got them.

We only have so many resources. We can't get the generals everything they want. It is not possible. So presidents have to make decisions on how to allocate their resources.

As Rumsfeld said, "You go to war with what you've got." Sometimes, you don't have enough but you have to make due.

192 >>We are having to defend our selves from stateless terrorism. We've never had to do that before. So I take you are unfamiliar with the Barbary Pirates and the history of the US. Yep, you're a liberal.

193 Damn, they're en fuego this morning so I hope someone stays down on this thread who can answer me this question: What's with the liberals saying "But George Bush took a week to talk about the shoe bomber!" I don't remember all that, but I'm sure it wasn't the same as Barry strolling off the links to put a bandage on Janet's arterial hemorrhage of stupid.

194

Barbary Pirates

Someone broke out the Barbary Pirates...now it's a party.

195

cam is correct.

I hate cam, his libtard friends & their dear leader.

196 Barack Obama and his Democrat contingency in Congress and Senate are stomping all over the Constitution and dismantling individual rights.  They believe they are above the law. They are arrogant, smug, self-absorbed, conceited autocrats who circumvent the Constitution behind closed doors and away from the American public.

Where we you when  the previous administration suspended Habeus Corpus, tapped our phones without warrants and then told us they didn't do that, committted war crimes...

If you are going to complain about the constitution being circumvented behind close doors, the previous administration did alot more of that so far than Obama.

I totally agree about the self-absorbed conceited autocracts... but if you think its one party doing that, you haven't been paying attention at all.

197

Mr. Progressive wrote:

"We need to make sure this doesn't happen again, find these terrorist before they attack us or plan an attack and prosecute them."

This is actually a very good idea, he just hasn't thought it through completely. Focus on the "attack" part and expand it to - "find anyone anywhere who "might" become a terrorist and attack them before they even begin to think about planning an attack."

And it's just cost effective to make sure the first strike is lethal; courtrooms are so expensive and so easy to avoid with just a little bit more effort on the front end.

I think that is a very good plan.   Yes I do. 

198 Cam is certainly struggling as he tries to mix Liberal pap with what he thinks Conservatives think and want. He confesses to not knowing what to do and at the same time is certain Barry the Hutt knows exactly what to do. Perhaps when he grows up he will also wise up.

199

"1. Armor. There wasn't enough."

Armor that was hitherto never used by 100 thousand troops at the same time and up armored HMMVWs that only certain units had. Yes you should postpone a war until you can uparmor every HMMVW in order to stop IED's that weren't even invented yet and backorder SAPPI plates for every REMF in Arifjan and reservist with an 88M MOS. You have never been in the military have you?

200 So I take you are unfamiliar with the Barbary Pirates and the history of the US.

I actually am familiar with it, but think it is a very different situation. But I'll give you points of calling me out on a technicality. I probably should have said something like "on US soil"

Congrats.

201 "Where we you when the previous administration suspended Habeus Corpus, tapped our phones without warrants and then told us they didn't do that, committted war crimes.." *sigh* More Democrat talking points.

202

"committted war crimes..."

So you are contending the previous admin committed war crimes? WTF?

203 Armor that was hitherto never used by 100 thousand troops at the same time and up armored HMMVWs that only certain units had. Yes you should postpone a war until you can uparmor every HMMVW in order to stop IED's that weren't even invented yet and backorder SAPPI plates for every REMF in Arifjan and reservist with an 88M MOS. You have never been in the military have you?

Actually, the intelligence showed before hand that this would be an issue. As far back at the 90's after what they saw happen in Lebanon.

But I agree. As I said in the comment that you quoted from, but I guess chose to ignore, you go to war with what you have. There was no cricticsim of Bush in that statement at all.

My larger point is that no president gives generals everything they need. It implies infinite resources, which are not available.

I guess you never worked in the intelligence field... huh?

204 If y'all come away with one thing (and one thing only) out of this fencing match with the troll, it should be that there are plenty of fools left who are bound and determined to go down with Obama's rudderless ship. Quite pathetic.

205 Seriously this guy is better than my sockpuppet. bravo man bravo.

206

Most intelligence folks seem to think that the specter of torture facilities greatly works for the enemy in recruiting. I have to defer to their opinion on that.

Works great for getting information on terrorist cells and plots, too. Just ask Khalid Sheik Muhammad.

They got lots of information out of him. Some of his accomplishments include: planning the 9-11 attacks that killed 3,000 in New York, Washington DC and Pennsylvania, the first World Trade Center attack in 1993, the Operation Bojinka plot, an aborted 2002 attack on Los AngelesÂ’ U.S. Bank Tower, the Bali nightclub bombings, the failed bombing of American Airlines Flight 63, the Millennium Plot, and the murder of Daniel Pearl.

Interrogations of Khalid Sheik Mohammad resulted in confessions pertaining to the 9/11 attacks, the capture of other terrorists, and actionable intelligence used to thwart ‘following up’ plans for weapons of mass destruction to be used on America, including anthrax and dirty bomb operations.

Specifically, interrogation with enhanced techniques “led to the discovery of a KSM plot, the ‘Second Wave,’ ‘to use East Asian operatives to crash a hijacked airliner into’ a building in Los Angeles.” KSM later acknowledged before a military commission at Guantanamo Bay that the target was the Library Tower, the tallest building on the West Coast. The memo explains that “information obtained from KSM also led to the capture of Riduan bin Isomuddin, better known as Hambali, and the discovery of the Guraba Cell, a 17-member Jemmah Islamiyah cell tasked with executing the ‘Second Wave.’ ” In other words, without enhanced interrogations, there could be a hole in the ground in Los Angeles to match the one in New York.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/ 2009/04/20/AR2009042002818.html

Until they were caught, they were in the process of killing as many infidels as possible for “Allah”.
I donÂ’t give a damn if they have to force feed a terrorist fucking ocean full of water to get information. The tactic works. It saves American lives.

207

"My larger point is that no president gives generals everything they need"

No your point was that they saw a need for more armor, ie uparmored vehicles and the new Sappi plates for the vests, and did not get that need met. That is just as much as a straight out lie and talking point as just blindly asserting "they commited war crimes!!!11!!!!"

208 1. Armor. There wasn't enough.

Tanks don't do much good in the mountains of Afghanistan. The Taliban doesn't have tanks.

2. More troops in Afgahn. That was asked for right from the start. They never got them.

Franks (the commander at the time) got the troop requests that he asked for. Here is Rumsfeld on the most recent charges: (Human Events article, tinyurl link) Yeah yeah, its human events, which you will hate, but it's a quote, so deal with it.

Rumsfeld was so displeased by Obama's charge Tuesday night he put out a rebuttal.

“In his speech to the nation last night, President Obama claimed that ‘commanders in Afghanistan repeatedly asked for support to deal with the reemergence of the Taliban, but these reinforcements did not arrive.’ Such a bald misstatement, at least as it pertains to the period I served as secretary of defense, deserves a response.

“I am not aware of a single request of that nature between 2001 and 2006. If any such requests occurred, ‘repeated’ or not, the White House should promptly make them public. The president's assertion does a disservice to the truth and, in particular, to the thousands of men and women in uniform who have fought, served and sacrificed in Afghanistan.

“In the interest of better understanding the president's announcement last night, I suggest that the Congress review the president’s assertion in the forthcoming debate and determine exactly what requests were made, who made them, and where and why in the chain of command they were denied.”

We only have so many resources. We can't get the generals everything they want. It is not possible. So presidents have to make decisions on how to allocate their resources.

As Rumsfeld said, "You go to war with what you've got." Sometimes, you don't have enough but you have to make due.

That statement was made about Iraq, not Afghanistan.

209

We are having to defend our selves from stateless terrorism.

Stateless??? Every Islamic nation-state in the Middle East sponsors, funds, supports, and breeds terrorists.

210

Why is everyone filling up the threads with useless bullshit trying to argue with ERG the stupid?

That is a waste of bandwith.

 

211 President Bush suspended writs of habeas corpus through his support and signing into law of the Military Commissions Act of 2006. The bill grants the President of the United States almost unlimited authority in establishing and conducting military commissions to try persons held by the U.S., and considered to be "unlawful enemy combatants" in the Global War on Terrorism. In addition, the Act suspends the right of "unlawful enemy combatants" to present, or to have presented in their behalf, writs of habeas corpus.
Importantly, the Military Commissions Act does not affect the hundreds of writs for habeas corpus already filed in federal civilian courts on behalf of persons held by the U.S.as unlawful enemy combatants. The Act only suspends the accused person's right to present writs of habeas corpus until after their trial before the military commission has been completed. As explained in a White House Fact Sheet on the Act, "... our courts should not be misused to hear all manner of other challenges by terrorists lawfully held as enemy combatants in wartime."

To me very targeted and personally not a problem.

212 Oh thats erg? My bad. Argueing with a liar is freakin pointless.

213 Dick Cheney is the Man! Poor Barry. Do us all a favor and quit today.

214 I donÂ’t give a damn if they have to force feed a terrorist fucking ocean full of water to get information. The tactic works. It saves American lives.

First, that report you cited has been shot down as untrue. Once the details came out it was shown that many of the suspects caught were caught BEFORE KSM talked.

I think torture works in some circumstances. not all. But the blowback is very harsh. When you look if torutre was successful you have to look at not only what lives it saved, but also how much wasting of time was there chasing down false leds given uder duress, how was it used by the enemy for recruting, and how will affect how our troops are affected in the field.

If you look throughout US military recommendations, the cost of torture has been seen to outweigh its benefits by experts almost unanimously since WWI.

So if someone wants to change that policy, then I think it should go through a military/intelligence review process to weigh the good and the bad.

it should not be done in some background by a bunch of political figures who may or may not have the power to make it happen and without the input from experts in the field. Which is was seems to have happened during the Bush admin. It looks like Bush was really misled by his top people on the laws. They should pay a heavy price. Yoo in particular.

215 >>I actually am familiar with it, but think it is a very different situation. But I'll give you points of calling me out on a technicality. I probably should have said something like "on US soil" It's not a technicality you ijit, it is the central theme. Before there was a US, there was radical Islam. The European method of dealing with it and the original way the US dealt with it was appeasement. It wasn't until Jefferson that we actually tried a new strategy and that strategy was to fight back. Guess what, it worked. Bush for whatever other warts he had took a similar approach, take the fight to the terrorists and the gov'ts that support them. He was ridiculed by the usual suspects, Europe, the left, you, but guess what, it worked. Obama does not believe in this approach and believes that if apologizes enough, listens enough, appeases enough, not only will Europe which has been double dealing in the middle east the entire time they wagged their fingers at the same middle east, love us but the terrorists will too. He is wrong. There's nothing "progressive" about his ideas. They have been tried for centuries and they always fail. And yes, I still hate the policies that the left is trying to impose on me.

216 Stateless??? Every Islamic nation-state in the Middle East sponsors, funds, supports, and breeds terrorists.

That's a great point. Suadi Arabia is the worst. But we can't declare war on Saudi because of the oil.  So in effect, we are not fighting the nations, we are fighting terrorists within the nations.

Its subtle, but it is a huge problem

217

And not the phony menstrual blood panties! Anything but the phony menstrual blood panties!

218

Why is everyone filling up the threads with useless bullshit trying to argue with ERG the stupid?

That is a waste of bandwith.

Every fact that is written down is one more thing someone else reading can use to formulate their own opinion. I don't think that's a waste of bandwidth. In fact, I like it when the trolls argue, makes the thread more interesting. Unlike our lefty counterparts, I like opposing opinions, and find them useful.

219 Oh thats erg? My bad. Argueing with a liar is freakin pointless.

No, I don't think it's erg. Stylistically, he's different. Erg just bellows random Chomsky/Zinn talking points. Cam sounds more like some sort of liberal concern troll.

220 Why is everyone filling up the threads with useless bullshit trying to argue with ERG the stupid?

Cam is not erg.

221 And just so everyone knows before i leave. I was a huge Reaganite. Voted For Bush I (the most qualified man every to be US President), Dole, Bush II, Nobody (out of the country), Nobody (out of the country).

I have voted for the republican governor, senator and rep in every election.

But you all make me want to vote for Obama.

Just like visiting KOS makes me want to vote for Romney.

Have a good day.

222

215

it should not be done in some background by a bunch of political figures who may or may not have the power to make it happen and without the input from experts in the field.

kinda like the health care debate? 

223

Where we you when  the previous administration suspended Habeus Corpus, tapped our phones without warrants and then told us they didn't do that, committted war crimes...

I was right here, supporting the efforts to capture terrorists, and gather information against terrorist cells in our country. What war crimes? Dunking KSM's fat ass in some water to save Amercican lives?  The trouble with you leftards is that you have less of a problem with Islamic terrorism than what it takes to stop it. Fuck. You.

If you are going to complain about the constitution being circumvented behind close doors, the previous administration did alot more of that so far than Obama.

Your main complaint is that Bush violated leftwing sensibilites by implementing the Patriot Act to thwart terrorist attacks. The Supreme Court ruled that is was Constitutional and legal. Look Cam, the NSA isn't interested in your phone sex, okay? They're more interested in surveillance and intelligence gathering on terrorist domestic threats.

I totally agree about the self-absorbed conceited autocracts... but if you think its one party doing that, you haven't been paying attention at all.

Posted by: Cam at December 30, 2009 12:14 PM (MN+T/)

Now that we have a leftwing Democrat majority of autocrats who are in the process of trying to push bad healthcare legislation down our throats and squelch dissent, have you been paying attention?

224 And just so everyone knows before i leave. I was a huge Reaganite.

There's the money quote. I'm laughing.

225 But you all make me want to vote for Obama.

Posted by: Cam at December 30, 2009 12:35 PM (MN+T/)

Ahh.. he's a "concerned Republican" worried that us haters are taking over the party. He really should get a job with the Lame Stream Media.

226 He really should get a job with the Lame Stream Media.

LGF would be a much better fit.

227 But you all make me want to vote for Obama.

Posted by: Cam at December 30, 2009 12:35 PM (MN+T/)

Hell, if you wanted ham-fisted, socialist abuse of the American economy, scatterbrained handling of foreign policy, fucking up in Afghanistan, a total lack of respect and understanding of the military, feckless attitude toward Islamic terrorists and kowtowing to foreign leaders, then Obama's your guy.

228 Yo,,, Cam,,, Call ME!!!!!................ OsamaHusseinIslamObama 2012' (the terrorist-Uighur-ACORN-media choice) -It's never too early to campaign-

229

And just so everyone knows before i leave. I was a huge Reaganite.

Bullshit. Reagan would have been just as infuriated with the likes of Obama as we are.

230

Cam's full of shit again:

Neither Peter Pace nor Shinseki were "fired".  Both served their full terms. 

231 And just so everyone knows before i leave. I was a huge Reaganite. Voted For Bush I (the most qualified man every to be US President), Dole, Bush II, Nobody (out of the country), Nobody (out of the country).

I have voted for the republican governor, senator and rep in every election.

But you all make me want to vote for Obama.

Note to future concern trolls: Cam's mistake here is that he posted this comment at the very end of his time here. This is not good form. The proper way to announce and brag about your conservative bona fides is with your introductory post.

Cam's effort? Solid B+.

232 222 And just so everyone knows before i leave. I was a huge Reaganite. But you all make me want to vote for Obama. Have a good day. Posted by: Cam at December 30, 2009 12:35 PM (MN+T/) Bye! *Hand Waving* Don't forget to hit the fan on your way out the door!!! {: ^ D

233 To acknowledge that our nation is at war (as well as all western democracies) and to acknowledge that the safety and security of the American People must take precedence - takes away Barry's shine.

 It makes HIM less important than the American people and he will  not have that.  He is the most important figure in America - and as always, it's about the ONE.  Or as another poster put it - The WAS.

234 "89 Why must you all hate on our beautiful new President? He is trying his best..." - Posted by: Mr. Proggressive

His best??  Losers always whine about their best. Winners go home and fuck the prom queen.

235

They do not help us defeat our enemies. At the most fundamental level Lefitsts take this approach because they want to pretend that we have no enemies.

Or they actually side *with* the enemy....

236 I predict more trolls like Cam will be appearing.  The effort is not to dissuade any of us from our opinions.

The point of trolls like Cam is to appear as a "reasonable" person on a board like this, and contrast his/her pseudo-rational approach with the average moron,  along with sowing twisted facts and half-truths.  (Pace completed his term and was NOT fired,  for example.  He was not nominated to a second term because both he and President Bush knew that he was going to be trashed by the democrats who controlled the Senate,  and would probably not be confirmed by the DEMOCRATS.  See how that got twisted into Bush's fault?)

Trolls like Cam are aiming at the casual lurker and reader who vaguely remember something about Pace, and will be swayed into thinking that Obama is doing just as well, if not better,  than Bush in prosecuting the war on terror.

If you go back and read all of Cam's posts,  you will see the technique.  If he comes back, it is important to actually answer each objection and let Cam know right away (or whoever shows up again with the technique) that you know what they are doing.

I am sorry I got here so late or I would have chimed in.   These types of trolls used to show up on Free Republic and other sites quite a bit a few years ago.  Sometimes they are actually media people (at least 2 on FR were).   They are very skilled at twisting things, so be alert!

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