Posted by: Bill D. Cat at October 03, 2013 11:21 AM (0iJzo)

**

Is that really what the number represents in letters??

11That is ok. In a few days the media will start complaining that these state governments are incompetent and that is why we need single payer ran by the federal government.

Exactly.  Which is why those claiming that implementation will doom the Dems are hopelessly naive.  In CA, (which is the model for all of this) everything the Dems have done for last decade has been abject failure.  They and the media press on.  Meanwhile the state presses forward toward being a single party state as the GOP continues to disappear.

Posted by: Harry Reid (D-NAMBLA) at October 03, 2013 11:28 AM (OWjjx)

Presumably so they can't testify.

3125368 = "FUCKYO", as 1 does not stand for any number.

I'm    lonely, so very lonely.

“The fact that we are here today to debate raising America’s debt limit is a sign of leadership failure.

It is a sign that the U.S. Government canÂ’t pay its own bills.

It is a sign that we now depend on ongoing financial assistance from foreign countries to finance our GovernmentÂ’s reckless fiscal policies.

Over the past 5 years, our federal debt has increased by $3.5 trillion to $8.6 trillion. That is ‘‘trillion’’ with a ‘‘T.’’

That is money that we have borrowed from the Social Security trust fund, borrowed from China and Japan, borrowed from American taxpayers.

And over the next 5 years, between now and 2011, the President’s budget will increase the debt by almost another $3.5 trillion”

ACA computers not working?

Obviously, the systems are racist, straight up.

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at October 03, 2013 11:33 AM (DmNpO)

Technically that's true. The barriers that were there didn't restrict entry.

willow

smarter than Boehner, Reid, the POTUS, the press, and the pundit class

Wow,  this rollout   of  OCare is just going swimmingly.

I can't wait until they come to get me, because there's no way in hell I can afford even the Paper Plan.

Posted by: Feh at October 03, 2013 11:39 AM (04EDR)

-

So, they are still lying.

shouldn't NPR be closed?

The  Ministry of Truth is  deemed essential.

89 Amazing. If all you have to go by is National Propaganda Radio, you'd think the exchanges were a rousing success.

Maybe we should move some barrycades in front of NPR and see what the essential employees do? Would make for good TeeVee.

Evidently, 1-800-3(F) 8(U) 2(C) 5(K) 9(Y) 6(O) is now down. This was the number I got for 404ErrorCare:

1-800- 6(M) 7(r) 2(A) 7(s) 7(s) 4(H) 6(0!)

h/t Rachel Jeantel

Posted by: dananjcon at October 03, 2013 11:25 AM (wmU4G)

Yes.  Though it's actually   1-800-F_UCKYO (since the number 1 isn't associated with a letter on a touchtone phone's keybad).

Posted by: Mike Hammer at October 03, 2013 11:42 AM (aDwsi)

good, so now we can hope you don't imput all your information and it freezes and they ask for you to return later.

Lies, libel, and slander from the floor are not actionable.

Posted by: Brandon In Baton Rouge at October 03, 2013 11:38 AM (/Crba)

Likewise Harry Reid for his lies about Romney's tax returns.

It's time to actually think about this.

Obamacare sucks.  Nobody wants it.  OK, let's get rid of it.

Prior to Obamacare, no one was refused healthcare.  Or, put another way, no person in the U.S., citizen or not, who needed a medical procedure, regardless of cost, was ever refused that treatment.

And we paid for it.  Even if we paid for private insurance for ourselves, we, the working people of the country, paid taxes that in turn paid for everyone's healthcare.

In review, we were already paying for everyone's healthcare.

Not only were we paying for everyone's healthcare, because remember, no one was refused treatment, but we were (and are) paying for the most expensive mode of treatment (emergency rooms).

So, looking back over what we've established so far, we already pay for everyone's treatment and a good portion of that is the most expensive treatment imaginable.

Now, I don't want to go full-on communist here, but I would like to see Obamacare tossed out and replaced with something that changes the status quo,  so that even though we continue to pay for everyone's treatment (AS WE DO NOW), it would be a better, more efficient, less expensive mode of treatment.

To that end, I believe  we need to lay out some type of plan that accomplishes that goal so that people can choose our good plan over Obama's bad plan.

That's just how this commie see it.

Posted by: rickb223 at October 03, 2013 11:42 AM (GjYxB)

HA

Posted by: Mike Hammer at October 03, 2013 11:42 AM (aDwsi)

Don't worry.  As soon as you've entered all    your information and hit "SUBMIT," it'll kick you out again and say they're busy.

Posted by: GnuBreed at October 03, 2013 11:42 AM (wNF3N)

It's actually 1-800-F1U-CKYO.

Liberals are going to cling to that 1 like a life jacket.

"The state Department of Natural Resources on Wednesday refused a directive from the National Park Service to close a host of popular state properties because of the federal government shutdown.

The park service ordered state officials to close the northern unit of the Kettle Moraine, Devil's Lake, and Interstate state parks and the state-owned portion of the Horicon Marsh, but state authorities rebuffed the request because the lion's share of the funding came from state, not federal coffers." 

[by the by, Ann also linked to this yesterday http://minx.cc/?post=342996 I forget why.]

They don't understand how web load works.

Few do.

meh, above, puts his finger on it.

Yes, CA is not the whole country.  But no, CA IS in fact, politically, most of the country.  As in - no level of outrageous, economically disastrous, lawless, divisive, race-baiting, insane, truly un-American nonsense from the ruling Dems will - neccessarily - have ANY political consequence.  Gray Davis was recalled in part for two hot-button issues - both of which have been subsequently pursued by his successors, WITHOUT political consequence of any kind.  THAT is how fast CA has been descending into dysfunction.  Dysfunction of the citizens themselves.  (hot button issues in question:  drivers' licenses for illegals, and borrowing money without vote of voters and using it for operational costs, both histrionic violations of the state constitution)

A strategy of "letting ACA crash" via actual implementation is not illogical, or insane, or without any theoretical possibility of success.  But it is so unlikely that it is not a serious strategy.

To that end, I believe we need to lay out some type of plan that accomplishes that goal so that people can choose our good plan over Obama's bad plan.

When on fire, step 1 is to put out fire.

Dealing with source of fire is step 2.

OT

I was behind a  car that had CTHULU as its plate number. 

the little stickers in the rear window that are usually stick figures of a family were zombie stick figures. 

There were two bumper stickers on the car, which were really one quote.  It was   "That is not dead which can eternal lie, And with strange aeons even death may die.” "

I wondered if he was a moron

They all get denied.

Actually, this may be the part that  can   actually  penetrate the LIV's Information   Shield.   If they go online  only to discover that TFG's  minions can't even get   a decent website up  after   3 years, they may just start to question   whether or not they'll be able to handle anything else.

Hell, I bet the zillions of gamers online have already noticed.  When   OCare  doesn't load after 30 minutes, and their MMORPG does, they might just start to wonder about it.

Maybe.

Posted by: Waterhouse at October 03, 2013 11:48 AM (YVx8A)

------ -------- ----- -----

The famed Hissy Cat.   

Posted by: Peter North at October 03, 2013 11:48 AM (ltwsQ)

*

I see what ya did there....Eeeew.

Posted by: Lauren at October 03, 2013 11:28 AM (ELdpj)

The Left will blame the Tea Party, which is--as we all know--notorious for its vast, basement-dwelling legions of script kiddie hackers with mad skilz, boss tattoos, and Marvel action figure collections still in the original packaging and with all of the accessories.

Great to hear it, OSP!

Posted by: Laurie David's Cervix at October 03, 2013 11:55 AM (kdS6q)

------- ----- ------ ------

Or a quest.  Find your artificial hip in Voskygge.  

Posted by: troyriser at October 03, 2013 11:56 AM (V9ol4)

They will simultaneously claim that the site isn't working because it's just so damn popular.

149 To that end, I believe we need to lay out some type of plan that accomplishes that goal so that people can choose our good plan over Obama's bad plan.Posted by: jwest at October 03, 2013 11:45 AM (u2a4R)

"And that would be what?"

What I believe would be the smart move would be to introduce a plan the democrats would be forced to vote for. 

As I may have mentioned in my previous comment, we are already paying for everything now.  If Obamacare continues, no one will end up paying premiums, everyone will opt out and end up in a government plan.

Why not give them government single payer catastrophic, while changing normal, everyday healthcare to direct, patient to provider HSAs, eliminating insurance companies altogether?

We would end up with the biggest piece of the pie utilizing capitalism and market forces, while the sickest 8% use the single payer.  The only difference in the catastrophic is that we would pay directly instead of subsidizing private premiums, so we're not giving up much.  Plus, we're already paying for it.

jwest, the "plan" you speak of starts - and mostly and quite adequately consists mostly of - de-regulating and de-fucking "healthcare" finance so that the enormous waste in the "system" is eliminated.

Some of the refrain is familiar, but most don't understand how much impact these things would have:  restore a real market in real healthcare insurance, without state-level interference and distortion, tort reform, tax-code reform to remove the idiotic subsidy to employer-connected insurance, and any other tweaks needed at the state or federal level to allow a real market in health care delivery and financing.

Is there any segment of American life with anything like the distortions of the current "healthcare finance" sector?  Prices and consumers and producers rarely meet.  That is almost all that matters.  Markets are not a "system" - they are simply the result of individuals maximizing their welfare in a rational manner.  "Health care" has almost NO market elements in it any more.

Elective cosmetic surgery and veterinary care, two areas with little/no "insurance" presence, have not seen the rising costs of "health care".  It's as plain as day why.  Safeway/Von's and a few other large cos. years ago re-introduced some rational elements into their employees' "health care" finance support - result was flat costs when everyone else's were skyrocketing.

Your focus on emergency rooms is slightly different, but it is also not the area sucking down the most $$$$.  Key point is:  the saved "costs" that would surely result (instantly) from even small reform to restore rational pricing in "health care" would easily cover the ER costs you mention.  And of course much of the ER problem is a problem of lawlessness on immigration, but you knew that ....

Posted by: BlueStateRebel at October 03, 2013 11:57 AM (7ObY1)

----------- ----- ------- --------------- --

--------- -------- -------------

Whew.  Some of the optimists around here had me worried.  

Posted by: Austin in TX at October 03, 2013 11:25 AM (/6EeB)

Vanity Fair's power rankings lists Steve Jobs' widow, Laurene.  The write up below,

Two years after her husband Steve JobsÂ’s death, Powell Jobs, who has an estimated net worth of some $11 billion, is emerging as Silicon ValleyÂ’s leading activist for immigration reform. This year she collaborated with filmmaker Davis Guggenheim on an immigration-reform documentary, which was largely motivated by her work with College Track, a college-prep program she founded for underserved communities

NBCWashington

Posted by: Gran at October 03, 2013 12:00 PM (mw0FO)

Oh really?      I bet the unions will love to hear that!

I just read that California spent $313 Million on the exchange, and its expected to sign up 2 million folks over the next year....

Uhhhh.... that's $150 per person!!!!! to match up a client with a Vendor!

Must be nice to be doing a project when you are spending OTHER peoples Money, so don't have to worry about costs.

Which Republican friends would that be? The extremists or the terrorists?

The RINOs.   The extremists and the terrorists are the Bad Republicans.

Posted by: WolfinNC at October 03, 2013 12:02 PM (W9QLJ)

Yes.

192 I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but Obama is winning the shutdown.
Republicans should have never gone down this route. I don't know how
they get out of it without capitulating to this Commie.

Grim Reaper, you miss the point that Pubbies have highlighted Obamacare roll out and forced every Dem to publically support what is inarguably a Big Government High Cost Mess. Do you remember any downside from any of the past 17 government shutdowns? Regardless how or when the shutdown is resolved, Americans will remember that the Pubbies told the truth - Obamacare is a train wreck that also kills the 40 hour work week. This should work very well in 2014.

So Obama is going to "fire" Congress, or just Republicans in Congress?

Saddam Hussein fired legislators.  I wonder if Obama would smoke a cigar for dramatic effect?

“Perhaps if the republicans would quit trying to regulate vaginas they could practice governance." - Anthea Butler

Perhaps if the democrats would stop spitting in the faces of the American people they could practice governance.

Will someone with access to Twitter please tweet the following question to Matt Yglesias:

"@MattYglesias, why do you continue to pretend you are a human being when you're clearly a       barely sentient    necromanced    turnip?"

Thank you.

Perhaps if the republicans would quit trying to regulate vaginas they could practice governance." - Anthea Butler

Get syphillis and die,    vag   stank.

Posted by: Beagle at October 03, 2013 12:04 PM (sOtz/)

While firing a double barreled shotgun off the White House balcony!  Just like I said people should do!

Now where's my paste?  I hungry!

Obama: If a worker shut down a manufacturing plant until they got what they wanted, they'd be fired.

"Hey, youse. Slow  the fuck down, youse makin' the rest of us look bad."

jwest, just read your second comment, and it's generally correct.

Only thing I'd change is that market forces (rational pricing) actually can help contain costs on the catastrophic side as well.   It's not just bandaids costing $5/each dispensed during a hospital stay that will return to normal pricing - it's all the stuff associated with catastrophic care as well.  The mega-inflation is pervasive in the system, and hence will be squeezed out of all areas if rational pricing discipline is (re)introduced.

The reality is that, via the 1986 law on ER treatment, and of course the federal Medicaid and state-level sister plans (MediCal in CA, for example), as you say - everyone has already been covered, for decades! 

And our medical care is best by far in the world - DESPITE the insane economic irrationality imposed on it (increasingly, now of course at a rapid pace) since the decision by the WWII Office of Price Control to allow competition between contractors via "benefits" packages and a federal tax code subsidy.  Imagine how good things could be if health care were allowed to operate with even a semblance of rational and free economic dynamics.

Posted by: non-purist at October 03, 2013 11:59 AM (afQnV)

All fair points.

The base of my option is how do we get this massive change through politically?  My answer to that is to give the democrats the government single payer on catastrophic illness and injury.

In exchange, we demand a free-market wonderland for healthcare with all the bells and whistles.  Elimination of thousands of regulations and restrictions, tort reform, advertising, published pricing, direct pay, everything Ayn Rand could dream of.

When the everyday medical costs start to fall dramatically due to those changes, we can then make the case to apply the same factors to the catastrophic.

Politically, it would work.

Posted by: PJ at October 03, 2013 12:07 PM (ZWaLo)

Wait.... Obama hired a BRITISH company, to oversee a strictly US Government program?

Wow..... just.... wow...

Every time they bring up vaginas or abortion I would mention sex-selective abortion causing tens of millions of missing women in Asia especially, but all over the world.   You will be cared for and have control over your vagina in perpetuity, but first you have to make it to the cradle the old fashioned way.  

Posted by: Carlos F. Danger at October 03, 2013 12:08 PM (qxcKC)

1-800-F_UCKYO

Since the other numbers around it are being represented by their associated letters, there's no reason to make an exception for the 1.

Posted by: Purp at October 03, 2013 12:09 PM (9MLX+)

I don't think the big PR victory he and other Democratic leaders had anticipated is playing out as planned. For that, they have only themselves to blame. Coming off as petty, whiny, vicious and vindictive is hard to spin as a positive even for a partisan press. 

Posted by: fixerupper at October 03, 2013 12:12 PM (nELVU)

Actually I thought he referred to them as "hardworking, patriotic,   salt-of-the-earth,   middle    class Americans."

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at October 03, 2013 12:12 PM (/kU/5)

Sorry... but there is evidence to the contrary...

Even though not modern, this site actually does function....

ergo, different folks..

Posted by: t-bird at October 03, 2013 12:13 PM (FcR7P)

Reagan?

The Wagner Act makes it near impossible for a union worker to be fired.  That needs to go.  We don't need unions in this day and age anymore.

Posted by: xuyee at October 03, 2013 12:14 PM (IKrYw

What else do you expect from a barely sentient necromanced turnip hopping up and down on a computer keyboard?

Posted by: troyriser at October 03, 2013 12:13 PM (V9ol4)

---

yeah.... I think the turning point was barricading sites like the WWII Memorial that weren't staffed or guided anyway.   Then to go out and barricade sites that are privately funded was a bit of overreach.

In this morning's Vic, er, Headline Thread, someone posed this question:

"If we have to subsidize insurance so that poor people can buy it, who is going to subsidize their deductibles that they can't pay because they didn't have the money to pay for the insurance in the first place?"

The answer is that there are *two* types of subsidy; the press has been covering only one (premiums):

"The other type of subsidy to which one may be entitled is one which reduces one's health-care out of pocket ("cost sharing"). As we'll see in Part 2, each plan design (called "Metal Plans" because they're denoted as Silver or Gold, etc) cover health care at different levels. Some pay 70% of health care expenses (for example), and other 90%. The cost-sharing subsidy reimburses one for that 30% or 10% difference, bringing down one's net cost of care."

link: http://tinyurl.com/exchangebasics

Amazingly, Clement Attlee got a universal health insurance system up and running despite a very shaky web operation.

And oh how THAT turned out. Britain is still a Great Power, isn't it?

Posted by: Grim Reaper at October 03, 2013 12:10 PM (YprVb)

Gee, Reaper. I dunno. You think we fellow extremist Tea Party-types should just cave to the inevitable? Ever since you started posting, I started feeling this creeping sense of hopelessness and despair, as if a highly sophisticated, very pragmatic yet sensitive and caring, Gaia-loving liberal has been gently, almost subliminally persuading me that resistance is futile and that surrender remains the only viable option. It's almost hypnotic, I tell you.

Good grief, dude. Get a life.

— Mark Knoller (@markknoller) October 3, 2013

Dear Preezy Fuckhead,

The economy will run just fine without you, thank you very much.

Sincerely,

Fuck You

Posted by: speedster1 at October 03, 2013 12:17 PM (v40Bj)

Uh.... no.... the 'metal' plans 'subsidy' is actually a rebate according to docs I've read.

ie.... they get it back at the END of the year, when they file for Tax's...

So, they have to pay throughout the year.... and that's the money they already do not have...

Also, most of these plans have up to a $5000 deductible.... and once again... where do they get the money to pay for healthcare prior to meeting the deductible?

At $5K?  there is only ONE year in my adult life I would have gone over that level... and I'm 54 and raised two kids.

Posted by: Vote Lord Humungus 2016 at October 03, 2013 12:14 PM (HEa5q)

**

Have the page up for an hour now, been staring at the live chat button.

I'm gonna click but I need something real snarky to say...a little help from the Moron pool would be great.

Hey Reaper, Obama's approval number was 41% last week and  around 61%  of the country   is  opposed to OCare,  that number has done nothing but increase over the past three years.  It was over 50% when that abortion of a law  was rammed down our throats by the Dims in the dead of night.

Your mouse button broken? You got  here, so I'll assume not.  Go do your own research.

>>Apparently, during the federal government shutdown, the US federal budget deficit is actually going down, but the overall federal debt is still going up.<<

Bwaahahahahaha!!

297 jwest -
"So if you get hit by a car, it's all free. Maybe a couple other things (immunizations) free too."

If you get hit by a car, get cancer, anything unforeseeable, you would land in the "catastrophic" category and everything beyond what the set minimum is for the HSA (probably around $4000) is paid for by the government.

I understand why reasonable people would also like immunizations covered for free,  but in this scenario, it has to come out of the individual's HSA.  Otherwise, an excuse would be found to put everything into the government end. 

Posted by: Feh at October 03, 2013 11:39 AM (04EDR)

So was the Fugitive Slave Act.  And it was upheld by the Supreme Court, too.  Ask them why Barky shouldn't be wandering a cotton field in Mississippi.

Posted by: FenelonSpoke at October 03, 2013 12:22 PM (a4Omg)

-----

Yes.   I thought it was actually a pretty clever move to take the things from Obama's "priorities" speech and send a funding bill for each and every one of them over to Harry Reid to be shot down.

Posted by: Romeo13 at October 03, 2013 12:23 PM (lZBBB)

A 5k deductible plan was something I considered when the wife and I could get on one for less than $100/month.

At more than we're paying now for insurance it really doesn't make much sense does it?

30 somethings seem to prefer the "Pot Metal" plan.

Posted by: mrp at October 03, 2013 12:25 PM (HjPtV)

Yeah.... there was a Lead plan, but it had a balloon payment....

>>Apparently, during the federal government shutdown, the US federal budget deficit is actually going down, but the overall federal debt is still going up.<<

That interest, man, it is a BITCH.

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at October 03, 2013 12:28 PM (DmNpO)

Ayuh. 

Posted by: EC at October 03, 2013 12:28 PM (GQ8sn)

I think this is not that far off the German model.

And my concern is like Social Security is to retirement, it'll just be expanded until it's the "de facto" health plan

and the Uranium plan was too radioactive...

and the Plutonium plan was too explosive...

Lies, libel, and slander from the floor are not actionable.

I would mortgage my house and give the money to the first  senator  to call Harry Reid a coprophiliac child molester.

Posted by: Mary Poppins' Practically Perfect Piercing at October 03, 2013 12:27 PM (zF6Iw)

Because he's never worked a day in his life?

Posted by: RWC at October 03, 2013 12:31 PM (fWAjv)

And    their publically funded   propaganda machines       PBS and NPR.

"One unintended consequence I see from this new approach would be an incredible amount of govt nanny-mongering. If they are supposedly bound to pay for all unforeseeable catastrophic accidents/illnesses, then they will try to regulate the hell out of everything could possibly land someone in the ER as a result."

That's true.  That's why we would have to use the incredible leverage we would have giving them single payer for catastrophic to make it damn near impossible for them to come back and re-regulate our new, free-market system for everything other than catastrophic.

Posted by: jwest at October 03, 2013 12:33 PM (u2a4R)

What leverage?  That's going to stop them from coming back in the future?  Like that's ever worked before.

Posted by: Oldsailors Poet Palin/Bolton 2016 at October 03, 2013 11:56 AM (XIxXP)

Congrats, Oldsailors Poet.

Used to drive their test cars. There was a locker room with showers at the car barn. Some wag glued the front controls off a microwave oven on the shower room door. The Germans never got the joke.

Our lead safety driver told them where to put their piss cups after intending an heretofore un-required  "mandatory voluntary (!?) test, saying that He trusted his drivers. Matter-of-fact, it was some broad who bragged about closing a st. patty's day bar (2am) before showing up for work (5am) who crashed HER test car that day.

Posted by: jwest at October 03, 2013 12:33 PM (u2a4R)

I pulled something in my shoulder 6 months ago.... went to the Dr. yesterday to get scheduled for an MRI as its not healing right...

Dr., XRay tech, and I, all agreed I needed an MRI.... but first I had to get an XRay.... why? (Dr. Quote)  'Obamacare'...

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) MFM Delenda Est at October 03, 2013 12:35 PM (/PCJa)

Because kids with cancer!

"Avoid the whole problem by recognizing that I am not responsible for the medical bills of someone in Walla-Walla from my home (and job) in the DFW (Texas) Metroplex."

That's my fault for the confusion.

I should have mentioned in my previous comments that we're already paying for someone in Walla-Walla. 

Posted by: Grim Reaper at October 03, 2013 12:10 PM (YprVb)

Can we get rid of the Concerned Conservative Christian stinking up the joint?

Hey, chill wingnutz.  This is a fucking goldmine !!!

If only the gov. employees who have to enter their expense account information had this much trouble logging in, You have to wonder just how many of them have found a way to collect mileage money going to and from work? Let us not forget that paragon of virtue John Beail the EPA official who scammed us out of a million dollars by faking and conning his nitwit superiors into believing he was a CIA operative.. 

Oops. You didn't check your email in time.

You should've gotten an email from the Marketplace with a link, but too much time has passed for that link to work.

So that was wonderful.  I kinda think I want my old insurance back.

Posted by: Grim Reaper at October 03, 2013 12:26 PM (YprVb)

Have you stopped taking it up the ass yet?

‘Imagine if every taxpayer in the country could just perform an act of civil disobedience and stop funding their stupid, corrupt, conniving, oppressive, and insane government in Washington by stop paying their taxes…

{{a few seconds go by}}

OMFG! OMFG! OMFG! OMFG! OMFG! OMFG! OMFG!

OMFG! OMFG! OMFG! OMFG! OMFG! OMFG! OMFG!

OMFG! OMFG! OMFG! OMFG! OMFG! OMFG! OMFG!

OMFG! OMFG! OMFG! OMFG! OMFG! OMFG! OMFG!

OMFG! OMFG! OMFG! OMFG! OMFG! OMFG! OMFG!

OMFG! OMFG! OMFG! OMFG! OMFG! OMFG! OMFG!Â’

- President Barack ‘MrAssHO!’ Obama

320 Romeo

You'll have to take that up with CMS - that's a direcvt quote from their Exchange training.