1 I think a lot of people are just taking Cameron's word for it. Obviously he may have contrived that as a means of putting asses in seats.

2 And while I'll agree that action movie may equal no plot, many of us like something compelling to go along with the splosions.

3 The filmmaker himself has admitted to the leftist slant so your criticism of others who noticed that seems a little silly. Whatever, glad you liked it. I wouldn't spend 2 cents to see another Cameron movie again. His ruinous treatment of the historical record of the Titanic disaster was unforgivable.

4 Didn't like the trailer, so I'm sure I wouldn't like the film.  I like action films, but I don't need to go see some "new" flick with old liberal cliches.  Give me patriotic cliches and I'd consider it.

5 The filmmaker himself has admitted to the leftist slant so your criticism of others who noticed that seems a little silly.

I didn't say there wasn't "leftist slant." I said it wasn't the OUTRAGEOUSLY OUTRAGEOUS leftism that some oversensitive folks are claiming.

6 "Except that the last time American soldiers went up against lily-white natives (morally white, I mean) was exactly never."  Yeah, only because the Cherokee never fought back.

7
The leftist trash loves to call our troops 'mercenaries'.  They air-raid villages and kill children for college money, right?  Still ain't gonna see it.

8 Let me guess, you thought "Wall-E" wasn't eco-prop because, well, it's just not realistic to have all that garbage over the entire earth and it was all due to some company, not the government.

It's a good bet that  you don't think you're influenced by commercials, either.

Thanks for supporting leftist politi-porn, dingbat.

9 Question, Gabe,

Has any film* struck you as over-the-top leftist propaganda?

How was that one different than Avatar?

(no doco's, of course, only fiction.)

10 3 hours = deal breaker. I will wait until I can watch it on my home theater and give myself intermissions whenever I like. And yes, I have killer sub woofers.

11 Re the 3D thing - When I went to see the Princess & the Frog, ALL of the trailers for the kids movies coming out next year (except the Chipmunk sequel) are in 3D. Every. Single. One. It was fun for the first couple of movies, but now it's overdone like the CGI animated movies are getting overdone. I'l watch Pixar CGI animated movies, but I'm over the ones from Fox and Dreamworks. Even if the Princess and the Frog was just an ok movie, it was nice to see traditional hand-drawn animation.

12 I saw Hurt Locker tonight, everyone else was seeing (and waiting in line to see) Avatar.  I will pass, I know you can ignore the liberal slant, but why the hell do I always have to wear my liberal disgronificator whenever I go to a movie?  These people ever heard of Carry Grant or Jimmy Stewart Movies?  I want preaching I go to church. 

Anyway if you want to see a war movie with absolutely 0 ideological message, see the Hurt Locker.  If anything the senseless brutality of the Iraqi Insurgents made me wonder about the Iraq war more than all the preaching and Leftist opposition.  There is something about showing a country that is barely above brutal chaos that makes you wonder why the hell even try?  As in the words of a past Hollywood blockbuster, "better to pull back and nuke it from space, just to be sure."

13 Outrageous leftist slant, or normal everyday leftist slant, whichever one you want to pick still means my interest meter in paying to see Avatar must be busted because it's not budging off of zero.

Glad you liked it though, because there's nothing quite so annoying as wasting money to see a movie in the theater.  When combined with my first point, it's not surprising that I don't go to the theaters much.

14 I didn't say there wasn't "leftist slant." I said it wasn't the OUTRAGEOUSLY OUTRAGEOUS leftism that some oversensitive folks are claiming.

Posted by: Gabriel Malor at December 20, 2009 02:16 AM (Mi2wf)

So, more like the winks and nods ("for me or against me") Lucas did in Ep III as opposed to the whole illogical trade-federation-that-wants-to-stop-trade major plotline from Ep I, then?

Also, it's pro-feminist?  That doesn't make a whole lot of sense since primitive societies don't indulge in feminism.

Meh, I'll wait for RedLetterMedia's review in a few years.

15 damned with faint praise...... i'll watch Gran Torino or the Western Channel here at the house, and spend the ridiculous ticket price, as well as the obscene parking and refreshment  charges on Val-U-Rite..... 

if i'm gonna pay to see a movie at the theater, Hurt Locker is still running here in LA. at least it only sucked a little.

16 Let me guess, you thought "Wall-E"

Never saw it.

Has any film* struck you as over-the-top leftist propaganda?

Sure. Pretty much anything Hollywood has made about the Iraq War or the War on Terror. I'm sure there are others, but it's not like I wrote down a list.

17 "I understand it’s possible to believe that a single disapproving reference to “shock and awe” (against a helpless village of women and children) and villainous calls for “fighting terrorism with terrorism” and “preemptive strikes” are indictments of the War on Terrorism. But you have to really, really want it."

Wait! You note the explicit indictment of the war on terrorism and the natives "deserve to win" plot and then say that we have to really look hard for leftist propaganda.  Are you f--ing kidding me!!

I'm already seeing that most commenters disagree with you, which means that Charles Johnson Ace will be banning us all real soon for making tasteless jokes about Cameron.

18 I still think the cheeseburger advertizing tie-in is still funny

19 I continue to find that I must have seen a different movie than other folks who saw Avatar this weekend

Two possibilities: you are not as smart as "other folks" or you are not bothered by propaganda.  Either way, suit yourself.  I'm sure as hell not going to see this pos movie that Cameron went out of his way to say was a political vehicle. 

20 I liked Wall-E better than Happy Feet. Happy Feet was in your face about the environmentalism. At least Wall-E was endearing.

21 Mercenaries=Blackwater/Xe? Unobtanium=oil? I'm sure you're probably somewhat right Gabe, I'm just not that inclined to give Cameron the money after he claims it's his leftist opus. It's too bad, it looks like it has some kick-ass action sequences. I'm sure he'll make a shitpot of money off it anyway.

22

Gabriel, love you, but Avatar sounds like what I feared it would be.  Glad you liked it, pretty cetain I won't.  James Cameron hasn't written a good, well thought-out, well rounded script since Terminator (1).  And yes, I include the much-beloved (but not by me) "Aliens".  Great one-liners, great zingers, but nothing else.

23 I liked Wall-E better than Happy Feet. Happy Feet was in your face about the environmentalism. At least Wall-E was endearing.

There you go. That made me think of Finding Nero, which was just WAY WAY over the top propaganda. And it's aimed at kids! Hate Finding Nero.

24 Left wing propaganda has become the norm , people got too used to it.

25

Look, you people focus way too much on some of this political stuff.

Sometimes a movie is just a movie.

26

Wow. Gabe doesn't notice leftist propaganda even when he literally sees it.

What a shock.

 

 

27 I love Finding Nemo. What was propaganda about it? Don't buy fish and trap them in your tank? Or when they freed the tuna in the nets? I didn't even think of it as propaganda. Wall-E was surely more obvious in terms of propaganda than Finding Nemo. What saved Wall-E was that the robot was cute and the story had more originality than most of the dreck out there. Happy Feet still takes the cake. It would have been on okay movie if they just cut out the last 30-45 minutes.

28 So what you are saying Gabe, and Ed apparently as I read his review, is that this is Transformers but with a slightly better plot that isn't really put-offish to conservatives unless you are looking for it. In other words it's got a pretty innocuous plot and super great CGI that you simply must see.

Yeah, well fuck that. I'm simply not impressed by CGI any more. And certainly not enough to pay the outrageous prices they want because they add 3D to a film that doesn't bring shit to the experience. I am so fucking tired of this damn lazy ass writing I can't even begin to say. I am even more tired of people selling a movie because it's "entertaining" enough or has CGI that simply must be seen on the big screen. If I want to see something that 75% or better out of a computer I'll play a video game. Yeah it's 50 bucks but at least I get 100 hours of entertainment out of that and half the time the cut scenes are better than anything big budget bonanza they got on 4000 plus screens that weekend.

And it certainly is worth seeing it in theaters to get the full effect.

The movie comes up short in the plot department.

Those 2 lines should never appear in the same review of a movie. If you can put those 2 lines in the same review and still want to see a movie again just admit you a fan boy and not remotely objective.

29 There you go. That made me think of Finding Nero, which was just WAY WAY over the top propaganda. And it's aimed at kids! Hate Finding Nero.

Posted by: Gabriel Malor at December 20, 2009 03:02 AM (Mi2wf)

I can imagine.  What with the insane incestuous murderous Roman Emperor and all.

Of course, Finding Nemo was pretty bad too.

30 Gabe doesn't notice leftist propaganda even when he literally sees it.

No need to be a dick, unless, well you are one. Have you seen Avatar?

Actually, don't bother. I know the answer.

31

I understand it’s possible to believe that a single disapproving reference to “shock and awe” (against a helpless village of women and children) and villainous calls for “fighting terrorism with terrorism” and “preemptive strikes” are indictments of the War on Terrorism.

* * * * *

Yes, I understand how someone could see that as well. What I don't understand is how a semi-intelligent person could NOT see it in such a way.

32

I can't wait to read Gabe's review of "Two Girls, One Cup".

I imagine it would read something like this:  It wasn't OUTRAGEOUSLY OUTRAGEOUS disgusting, and it did have a couple of funny scenes where all my friends laughed out loud. Only hysterical he-bitches will be offended, and for this reviewer, it was no different that any typical Friday night.

33 Come on , Gab , this is exactly the way the left sees amrikkka. It's halliburton killing for unobtanium. You may not see the similarities , but they do.

34 Doesn't look interesting to me. I'll be waiting for him to make his Battle Angel Alita film, that story would totally rock as a live action flick though I hope they don't end it like the anime where it just ends without any closure.

35 Of course, Finding Nemo was pretty bad too.

Well damn. Yarvin!

36

"And the movie takes pains in the first five minutes to emphasize that the mercenaries are, well, mercenaries hired by the Company and not part of any military"

* * * * *

HALLIBURTON *cough* BLACKWATER *cough* I'M A DUMB FUCK WHO DOESN'T UNDERSTAND ANALOGIES *cough*

37 I'M A DUMB FUCK WHO DOESN'T UNDERSTAND ANALOGIES *cough* Posted by: LULZ

You're also RJ.

38 Posted by: Gabriel Malor, soon to be writing for Kos, at 01:58 AM

39 Let me guess, you thought "Wall-E" wasn't eco-prop because, well, it's just not realistic to have all that garbage over the entire earth and it was all due to some company, not the government.

It's a good bet that  you don't think you're influenced by commercials, either.

Thanks for supporting leftist politi-porn, dingbat.

* * * * *

I haven't read through all the comments yet. Did Gabe reply by calling you a "denier?" Or did he stick with "homophobe" and "racist?"

40 33 Come on , Gab , this is exactly the way the left sees amrikkka. It's halliburton killing for unobtanium. You may not see the similarities , but they do.

Posted by: I sea kittens at December 20, 2009 03:13 AM (bAL0J)

This is called the "dog whistle" phenomenon.  It's using code words that your intended audience understands but that outsiders wouldn't. 

41  Come on , Gab , this is exactly the way the left sees amrikkka. It's halliburton killing for unobtanium. You may not see the similarities , but they do.

I think the difference between you and me is that I don't actually care what Leftists think. And I'm not particularly bothered if they don't like me.

42 2 questions for you Gabe:

Ed quotes this line: “killed their own mother [Earth]“.
Forget the military crap. If that is really in the movie and is the Navi's mindset how the hell is this not a dirt loving leftist love fest?

2nd: You only saw one plot hole?
Ed says "after mind-linking to an engineered body of a NaÂ’vi."
In other words he's jacked into this ala The Matrix. Once it's clear he's gone native why don't those merciless mercenaries from the big bad corporation, which we are supposed to hate for some reason, just unplug his worthless traitorous handicapped ass?

43 I'll see it 'cause I'm a sucker for 3D. Another film in which it was very well done is "Up".

44
I think the difference between you and me is that I don't actually care what Leftists think. And I'm not particularly bothered if they don't like me.

What they think, say and do is a problem for us all. Their revision of reality and their constant propaganda is dangerous.

45 Let's see:

Humans - Bad
War - Bad
"Shock and Awe" - Bad
White men - Bad
"Exploiting" resources - Bad
"Mercenaries" (aka Blackwater) - Bad
Capitalism - Bad
Corporations - Bad
"Colonialism" - Bad
Advanced civilization - Bad
Preemptive war - Bad
Fighting terrorism - Bad

However:

"Native" indigenous "people" - Good
Primitive Third World savagery - Good
"People" with a different skin color than evil Whitey - Good
Killing evil Whitey capitalist corporate war-mongering mercenary anti-environment English-speaking human beings - Good


Throw in:

Leftist director admitting that his movie is leftist propaganda

And the review we get - on a conservative blog! - is that only raving schizophrenic right-wing lunatic conspiracy theorists think this movie has any left-wing bias.

Thanks, Gabe. Outstanding review.

46 Normally I can overlook a lot if a movie is sufficiently entertaining. But so far all the reviews for Avatar I've read (except for this one) are pointing in the wrong direction to make me want to see it. Especially if I have to pay extra.

And the differences in opinion about this movie may be an age thing. I'm old enough to have seen Dances With Wolves, Fern Gully, Nausicaa, plus a lot of heavy-handed enviro flicks from the 70's. So I really don't have much desire to see a mishmash of all of them again even if it has super CGI graphics.

47

I can't wait to read Gabe's review of "Two Girls, One Cup".

I imagine it would read something like this:  It wasn't OUTRAGEOUSLY OUTRAGEOUS disgusting, and it did have a couple of funny scenes where all my friends laughed out loud. Only hysterical he-bitches will be offended, and for this reviewer, it was no different that any typical Friday night.

* * * * *

I lol'd IRL.

48 I must have been one of the few who had no desire whatsoever to see "Titanic" because the star of the show would have been the recreated magnificent and opulent ship now resting at the bottom of the north Atlantic, and I had no interest in cluttering this with lingering shots of 3rd-rate actors in a 4th-rate plot. Besides, you go in knowing that the ship sinks and everybody dies -- who needs that? Staying at home to drink myself blind is more fun, probably cheaper, and arguably better for me.

So "Avatar" is Myst on steroids -- pretty and imaginative pictures strung together with a hash of cliches and characters nobody cares about. Y'know, this seems oddly familiar......oddly......oh, yeah -- it's exactly what the 7-part review of "The Phantom Menace" keeps harping on about just a few posts down. You can keep hitting the "blow'd up real good" or "eye candy" buttons as much as you want, but if you couldn't care less about the characters or plot, what's the point?

Seriously, is there one actual motivation to see the thing besides "shiny, shiny"?

49 And the differences in opinion about this movie may be an age thing. I'm old enough to have seen Dances With Wolves, Fern Gully, Nausicaa, plus a lot of heavy-handed enviro flicks from the 70's. So I really don't have much desire to see a mishmash of all of them again even if it has super CGI graphics.

Posted by: Mætenloch at December 20, 2009 03:37 AM (mQi3C)

at least Nausicaa of The Valley of The Wind was good

50 chill out folks: all Gabe did was give this fetid pile of Hollywood crap a solid B+ review......  %-)

51 I remember watching Fern Gully as a kid and I know we have it on VHS somewhere. Looking at it now I see it as the enviro-ganda it is, but as a kid, it went over my head. But I listened to Larry Elder starting in elementary school because my parents only ever listened to talk radio, so maybe that's why left indoctrination doesn't stick with me.

52 That was a good review!  I'm just concerned that because Gabe liked the BSG and Stargate Universe soap operas, he may be trying to get us to watch another one.

Has anyone who disliked Battlestar seen Avatar and enjoyed the movie?

53 When one thinks about it, the only "bad guys" in movies are cliche. The fact that this movie is filled with "bad guy" cliches -- as #45 above demonstrates -- that we're all supposed to get simply because everybody knows them to be "true" is plenty of reason for me not to see Avatar. In fact I avoid nearly any movie the premise of which is so obvious from the trailer as to insult my intelligence.

I'd prefer a zombie movie or a good mob/gangster movie if I'm going to get cookie cutter horse shit like Gabriel Malor described above.

If this is a positive review I'd be almost embarrassed to read a negative review of Avatar.

54 Seriously, is there one actual motivation to see the thing besides "shiny, shiny"?

Posted by: cthulhu at December 20, 2009 03:39 AM (u+gbs)

Apparently not. This is what kills me. Professional critics are saying just about the same as Gabe and still recommending the movie. You have an academy award winning director who's had 10 years and north of 300 million dollars and he's produced the cinematic equivalent of Heaven's Gate in 3D CGI but yet every single one says "it certainly is worth seeing it in theaters to get the full effect."

The full effect of what? Flushing $15 bucks down the toilet while wearing sunglasses?

55  
Ed quotes this line: “killed their own mother [Earth]“.
Forget the military crap. If that is really in the movie and is the Navi's mindset how the hell is this not a dirt loving leftist love fest?


Rocks, its in there. But it has quite a bit of baggage since the Na'vi don't understand that Earth doesn't have a world-spanning neural network made up of all plantlife on the planet.  For the Na'vi, their planet is their "mother" because it literally talks to them, cares for them, etc. (It's also kinda treated as their "heaven" because it stores memories.)

So yeah, it's in there, but it's freakin' pointless to compare it to Earth since, well, that whole neural-net mother thing.

2nd: You only saw one plot hole?
Ed says "after mind-linking to an engineered body of a NaÂ’vi."
In other words he's jacked into this ala The Matrix. Once it's clear he's gone native why don't those merciless mercenaries from the big bad corporation, which we are supposed to hate for some reason, just unplug his worthless traitorous handicapped ass?

They do.

56 Kevin,

I liked Battlestar for three seasons. Once it devolved into cliches, I lost all interest.

57 Kevin,

I liked Battlestar for three seasons. Once it devolved into cliches, I lost all interest.

Posted by: Nom de Blog at December 20, 2009 03:50 AM (Zjkml)

yeah, once they got on that planet, shit went downhill FAST.

I also really dug the first season of SGU

58 Gabriel Malor,

So you're saying that the theory of Gaia and the Na'vi planet don't have any similarities? Have you never seen a bumper sticker that says "Save the Planet"?

That's what Leftist ass holes believe they're doing by "going green"; they think they're saving the planet which has actual worth of its own. And they think humans are a virus. (See e.g. The Matrix)

59  If this is a positive review I'd be almost embarrassed to read a negative review of Avatar.

Thank you. Some folks seem to think that when I call a movie "dull", "done to death", "not great", "serious plot hole" I'm giving it a positive review. I'm not. It entertained me because it's gorgeous, loud, and shit blows up. If you like gorgeous, loud, and shit blowing up, it will probably entertain you too. To get the full 3D, loud effect you'll want to see it in theaters, unless you're like that guy up above who said he's got a giant screen TV and a subwoofer. Bastard.

60 I also don't mean to unload on Gabe, who's one of the good folks here.

But....
I pick up the paper and it's unreadable shit.
I flick on the TV, and it's unwatchable shit.
I scan the bookstands and it's unreadable shit.
I check the movies and they're unwatchable shit.
I pick up a textbook and it's unlearnable shit.
I used to get a bunch of magazines -- everything from Scientific American to National Geographic to Time, Forbes.....and each one has turned, over time, to utter bilge.

About the only thing worth doing these days is connecting with the M & M here at Ace's and a few other places...

...and one of them just came back from some half-billion-dollar example of malignant-PC-narcissism and said, "eh, it's not too bad."

61 I've got the big TV with the sound system too. But I won't watch this movie unless a friend lets me borrow it. And even then I'll probably not make it all the way.

62 and i liked the first few shows of the Eunuch, and then, unsurprisingly, all the leftist weirdo shit started happening, and i quit watching. TV, movies, it's all piss poor blatant propaganda, by idiots for fools.  i'll pass.

63 To get the full 3D, loud effect you'll want to see it in theaters, unless you're like that guy up above who said he's got a giant screen TV and a subwoofer. Bastard.

Posted by: Gabriel Malor at December 20, 2009 03:54 AM (Mi2wf)

there are some nice 7.1 HTIB setups out there that are pretty cheap. Really dig my HT-S5200 get up that cost me about $450 ($425 for the sound system and another $25 in cables from Monoprice)

64 cthulhu said:  ...and one of them just came back from some half-billion-dollar example of malignant-PC-narcissism and said, "eh, it's not too bad."

so you're not quite as powerful as everyone wants me to believe either?

65 Rocks, its in there. But it has quite a bit of baggage since the Na'vi don't understand that Earth doesn't have a world-spanning neural network made up of all plantlife on the planet.  For the Na'vi, their planet is their "mother" because it literally talks to them, cares for them, etc. (It's also kinda treated as their "heaven" because it stores memories.)

So yeah, it's in there, but it's freakin' pointless to compare it to Earth since, well, that whole neural-net mother thing.

And the audience is not supposed to think of Earth as our Mother just because we can see her neural network? I suppose they don't have repackaged shit of Lovelock's Gaia Theory to run on every 2nd rate science cable network for the next month. No, this film isn't some liberal lovefest. You're right. See ya in Mexico 2010 for the next Climate Change conference.


And they do unplug his ass but too late of course. Let me guess.... Old Mother Navi brings his dirt loving ass back from the dead to lead the final assault against the evil mercenaires right? It must have been his carbon neutral lifestyle.

66 Rocks, its in there. But it has quite a bit of baggage since the Na'vi don't understand that Earth doesn't have a world-spanning neural network made up of all plantlife on the planet. For the Na'vi, their planet is their "mother" because it literally talks to them, cares for them, etc. (It's also kinda treated as their "heaven" because it stores memories.)
So yeah, it's in there, but it's freakin' pointless to compare it to Earth since, well, that whole neural-net mother thing.

Of course this idea has been mined pretty thoroughly in lots of sci-fi. Is there any idea in the movie that isn't a cliché or standard trope?

67 Of course this idea has been mined pretty thoroughly in lots of sci-fi. Is there any idea in the movie that isn't a cliché or standard trope?

Posted by: Mætenloch at December 20, 2009 04:00 AM (mQi3C)

Tetsuo (this and Clerks make up my top slot for favorite movie of all time), at least at the time was quite inventive and it still really hasn't been duplicated though people have tried

68 Is there any idea in the movie that isn't a cliché or standard trope? Serenity! What's old is new again, at least to Hollywood. They've run out of ideas so all they do is sequels and remakes. Pixar is probably the last studio that actually comes up with fairly original stories.

69 But....
I pick up the paper and it's unreadable shit.
I flick on the TV, and it's unwatchable shit.
I scan the bookstands and it's unreadable shit.
I check the movies and they're unwatchable shit.
I pick up a textbook and it's unlearnable shit.
I used to get a bunch of magazines -- everything from Scientific American to National Geographic to Time, Forbes.....and each one has turned, over time, to utter bilge....and one of them just came back from some half-billion-dollar example of malignant-PC-narcissism and said, "eh, it's not too bad."

There are folks out there irremediably determined to be unhappy. I'm not sure what you want me to do about that.

70 I stand corrected -- Gabe is saying that he went to see some half-billion-dollar example of malignant-PC-narcissism and "it's gorgeous, loud, and shit blows up."

Gabe, I'd spot you a fiver to buy a beer -- which goes well beyond what I'd do for half of my blood relations [and a great majority of other people] -- but that's weak.

And for redc1c4 -- remember that dead Cthulhu lies dreaming in R'lyeh....and what he mostly dreams is, "Hey! You kids! Get off my f***ing lawn!!!!"

71 Serenity!

Posted by: wherestherum at December 20, 2009 04:05 AM (gofDd)

that universe plays quite a few tropes. Play it in black and white and it would fit in as a 30's & 40's serial. Whedon did a better job than Lucas (Star Wars) in that regard

72 How does it end , they all get universal health care?

73 meh

74

One guy I read online observed that this is really more of a Cameron flick geared towards nerds (as opposed, by implication, to the left-wing college coffeehouse crowd).  He listed the following:

Women (men with breasts in the Cameronverse) who teach us the evils of rapacious male-dominated society Exotic primitives whose simpler life of bonding with nature makes them superior (i.e. they don't do shit, sit around all day playing the aboriginal equivalent of WoW, lecture everyone about it) Militaristic eye candy, but to allow for this guilty pleasure the military are evil pawns of whitey Nauseatingly adolescent love story in which sex roles are all jumbled up and confused Finally someone is making a movie about MY fursona

And another individual on this guys board noticed this little bit of criticism from the New York Press:

"Alien-girl Neytiri (Zoe Saldana) teaches Sully how to bond with a tie-dyed, eagle-like creature by docking his wriggly tail into it. “Feel her!” Neytiri urges, and Cameron emulates the boy-plus-car symbiosis of Transformers—but with pulsing loins, veins and orifices."

So yeah, I'd buy the argument that this isn't really so much a high-handed bit of your standard left-wing moralism (the "noble savage" archetype has been around since roughly the Enlightenment, after all), but really more of a way for reality-disconnected geeks to project their own wierd fetishes onto the story.

75 "the connection between the filmÂ’s mercenaries, natives, and corporate greed and the real-worldÂ’s U.S. military, Iraqis, and War on Terrorism exists mostly in the minds of people desperately hoping to find it."

So you're saying that the explicit self-identification of a mercenary as a US Marine that, oh, a dozen other reviews noted, didn't in fact exist in the movie?

Qwinn

76 Gabriel said:  "Except that the last time American soldiers went up against lily-white natives (morally white, I mean) was exactly never."

Huh?  What kind of moronic statement is that.  Perhaps you haven't noticed, Gabriel (if that's your real name) is that the left always attacks conservative straw men.  Just cause the straw man doesn't really exist doesn't mean it isn't offensive that they claim it.

The leftist crap in this film didn't bother me -- it was so cliched even a Kossack would find it cornball (I think) -- but the lack of originality sure did.  This movie totally sucked.  Sorry, Gabe (if that's your real name) but it did.

77 Serenity was cliched out the wazoo.

Scrappy rebels take on big-bad Empire.
90 lb. action girl ninja.
The rogue with a heart of gold.
Space whore.
Space zombies.
A freakin' bank heist!
The handheld shaky-cam technique.
Mexican standoff.

78 i'm not sure about the tentacled one Gabe, but the only thing between me and happiness is 50 or so IQ points: if i could just lose those, and never know i had them, i'd be as happy as a pig in shit, just like the rest of the idiots.

however, since i don't have any insurance to pay for the lobotomy, i'll have to settle for a bottle in front of me...... pass the Val-U-Rite, por favor.

79 movies that don't suck:

El Mariachi
Vanishing Point
The Usual Suspects
To Live and Die in LA
Blues Brothers
Rude Boy
Hurt Locker
Gran Torino
and ??

80 and, it should go without saying, just about anything with John Wayne or Clint Eastwood in them.

81 Verrrrry iiinteresting....on a completely different note, there was a refresh there where I saw my post 70 directly following post 68, then I refreshed again and Gabriel's post popped in between. I wouldn't have thought that NorCal and SoCal were in different time zones, but I suppose it's not too surprising....

Anyway, back on track -- I'm not particularly determined to be unhappy. I'd rather hang out with the crowd here than the entire staff of the NY Times, MSNBC, CNN, Time, Newsweek, Cameron's film crew and production staff, all the featured speakers at FreezerCon'09 in Copenhagen, and 535 worthless hunks of elected meat in DC put together.

And I've particularly enjoyed many of the things that Gabe's written, especially with regard to some points of law and things which reflect his state of mind.

But getting your audience to gasp in unison isn't drama. It isn't really entertainment. It's spectacle -- like the Grand Guignol. It's pushing buttons and letting your paying customers jerk like marionettes on a string. And I'm too old and cranky for that.

I still get misty-eyed just thinking about "Old Yeller", I sit a little straighter when the Crispin speech of Henry V comes on, I get rebellious when I watch DVD's of The Prisoner -- I'm not adverse to outright manipulation. But it should at least engage the intellect and not just the reflex arc.

And that's where I'm poking with my sharp stick here. I understand that Gabe wrote your piece in the flush of first impression, but reading it carefully -- and I respect him enough to read carefully -- it still came across as "shiny, shiny".

Apologies all 'round if it seems harsh, but with the toys available these days, "eye candy" doesn't rate more than a gentleman's C to me -- or a Harvard law B+, whatever.

82 So yeah, I'd buy the argument that this isn't really so much a high-handed bit of your standard left-wing moralism (the "noble savage" archetype has been around since roughly the Enlightenment, after all), but really more of a way for reality-disconnected geeks to project their own wierd fetishes onto the story.
Posted by: David Axelrod's Combover at December 20, 2009 04:15 AM (1SOOm)

Well I am open the idea that this is more of a geek fantasy movie than a left-wing fairytale. Of course I think I've already reached my lifetime quota of the 'enlightened noble savage' archetype so now whenever I see native people portrayed as too wise and hippie-like, I start reaching for my tire iron.

83 Maetenloch --

I'll see your tire iron and I'll raise you a crowbar.

84 i'm not sure about the tentacled one Gabe, but the only thing between me and happiness is 50 or so IQ points: if i could just lose those, and never know i had them, i'd be as happy as a pig in shit, just like the rest of the idiots.

however, since i don't have any insurance to pay for the lobotomy, i'll have to settle for a bottle in front of me...... pass the Val-U-Rite, por favor.

* * * * *

The ironic thing is - despite all the claims from the left that conservatives are a bunch of inbred drooling ignorant hick rubes who are easily led - the fact of the matter is, if we weren't so fucking intelligent and perceptive and willing to think for ourselves instead of merely ingesting what we are force-fed by the mass media, we wouldn't even notice these subtle attempts at indoctrination, and therefore would be much happier people.

Ignorance is bliss. Ignorance also has a liberal bias.

85

But....
I pick up the paper and it's unreadable shit.
I flick on the TV, and it's unwatchable shit.
I scan the bookstands and it's unreadable shit.
I check the movies and they're unwatchable shit.
I pick up a textbook and it's unlearnable shit.
I used to get a bunch of magazines -- everything from Scientific American to National Geographic to Time, Forbes.....and each one has turned, over time, to utter bilge.

Yeah I feel the same way, but I don't know what it means. 

 

86 to even stomach a movie with such anti-right leanings is a betrayal.

Go fuck yourself, Gabriel Malor. I'm sorry you're a blind-as-a-bat, leftist-loving fuckhead. Kindly go pay for an abortion while you support welfare lazy-asses and ruin the country freeing terrorists and paling around with Ayers and Wright, you fucking asshole.

87 yeah Malor, all your contra-what everyone else is saying leaves out one thing: Cameron expressly says it IS a lefty film and it IS referencing all the things you say it's a stretch to imagine it's referencing.

Other than that, you are spot on, sporty. It's always hip to be contrarian and ridiculing "what all the other rightblogs are saying" as over-heated pearl-clutching when there's nothing there but their heated imaginations.. Maybe you can get a gig on LGF, DouchyCharley lives for that kind of stuff.

88 Maybe you can get a gig on LGF, DouchyCharley lives for that kind of stuff. Posted by: ms. docweasel

No, don't hold back. What are you really trying to say?

89 Now, as for the objections that this is Hollywood Leftism shitting on Right-wing imperialism, industrialism, capitalism, and the War on Terrorism, I kept my mouth shut ‘til I’d actually seen the movie. But I suspected that these folks were being hysterical he-bitches with gigantic chips on their shoulders and it turns out I was right.

No, the movie actually does shit all over conservatives, capitalism, and the war on terror. It just isn't direct in doing so; it uses analogy instead.

FFS, Orwell's "Animal Farm" was an analogy about Soviet Communism. Does that mean readers should say to themselves: "Well, fuck. It's all about pigs and sheep and horses on a farm, whereas Stalin and Lenin were actually human beings running a country, so there's obviously no connection. Only a right-wing paranoid schizophrenic could possibly disagree."

And the movie also notes in the first few minutes that the offscreen "folks back home" don't exactly approve of the Company slaughtering a bunch of natives.

Right. And there's a term for those "offscreen folks back home." They are called anti-Bush anti-war left-wing activists. Code Pink, basically. And of course they are portrayed as the wise, decent human beings.

An actual conservative would be able to see this pretty clearly.

90 To sum it up: Cameron is a genius at film technology and a total mediocrity as a storyteller.

Verdict: Maybe OK if you want to see new CGI and filming techniques but you've seen this story over and over.

Doesn't sound like it's worth standing in a long line and paying twice the price to sit through three hours of a cliche loaded story.

91 There are folks out there irremediably determined to be unhappy. I'm not sure what you want me to do about that.

Posted by: Gabriel Malor at December 20, 2009 04:05 AM (Mi2wf)

Allahpundtit... is that you?

Seriously Gabe, (I can call you Gabe, right? Good!) what's the point in speculating about other people's unhappiness unless it's to deride? Are you saying that only the "irremediably determined to be unhappy" can spot attempts at indoctrination or that only the pathologically disturbed would be bothered by it? I'm more worried about people that can never recognize it and/or are not bothered by it.

92 Saw it, liked it, pretty much agree with your assessment Gabe.  My libertarian/conservative leanings aren't affected by the included leftist trope.  As kbdabear says, "Cameron is a genius at film technology and a total mediocrity as a storyteller", so I didn't go expecting an epic story.  In fact, the more crappy and obvious the story he uses to peddle his silly left-wing progressive rant, the less effective he is at make the case that he's correct.  He trots out the standard bugaboos that have been hanging around for years and adds nothing of interest or value.  He thereby undermines the ideas he so desperately seeks to advance.

Technical genius though.  The 3D is excellent, the movie is visually stunning.  The plot and themes are so unimaginative they are easily ignored.

93 The ticket price is twice the price?

If this is the case, then those who need the eye-candy entertainment have less imagination than those who have no imagination at all.

Eye-candy suckers, you can choose to remain brain-dead forever just do not make me pay for your eternal stupid.

While stuck- on- stupid have their eye-candied balls glued to Hollywood's brain-dead screen, Moderates are voting the country into Serfdom.

When the brain-dead peel themselves away from their useless idiot do not bitch when you find yourselves enslaved.   

94 Brain-dead stuck on Hollywood eye-candy, enjoy your stupid while you can and do not forget to say farewell to Israel before you purchase your popcorn and coke for your evening's worth of empty entertainment:

"Meanwhile on Saturday, the Fars news agency quoted Iranian nuclear chief Ali Akbar Salehi as saying that the Russian-built nuclear power plant in Bushehr would have to undergo only three more rounds of testing before becoming operational."  Jerusalem Post (12-18-2009)

Evil happens because brain-dead have their heads shoved up Hollywood's asshole.

95 oh come on

do i really need to sit writhing in an uncomfortable theater for 3 hours in order to be 'entertained'? must i go through an excruciatingly unoriginal plot line to just enjoy the CGI? and really, the graphics in team fortress 2 outdo any special effects from that film, i saw the trailers...color me unimpressed, 3D or not 3D.

im not really endeared to james cameron either. if i could id toss food at the guy and plant a 'kick me' sign on his back. he comes off as arrogant, smarmy, and i dont want what little intelligence i have left insulted by any more crappy eye-candy flicks he drudges out. with all due respect, your review was as meaningful as my cousin's about his jail time. 'just go and enjoy the effects' basically sums it up. well, ive went and done that before and to be honest, the shit is annoying.

CGI has gotten out of control. every frickin movie these days is stuffed to the gills with it. the star wars  movies had so many things going on at the same time from scene to scene it could make you pass out. the lights, the 'shit blowing up' and the sounds were enough to send people into shivering breakdowns. avatar is everything i dont like about this new wave of effects/3D hollywood. i wont pay for it, and propaganda or not, i can't sit through any more of it. glad you liked it, review guy, im sure if someone flicked a lighter in front of you they could make you do whatever they wanted, noob.

96 ASTONISHING! I have never seen a 3D movie. (I saw the IMAX 3D version.) This was absolutely amazing. I was just a college grad when Star Wars came out. I took my college-age daughter to see this and couldn't help comparing my reaction to Star Wars with my reaction to this one. This was like a generational step in  technical progress for movie making, from the point of view of in my (maybe ignorant) eyes.  Bravo on the technology of this movie.

As far as the story line goes, very entertaining. (Really sorry about the native American thing, but, hey, I wasn't born then. But those assholes are dead. Time now to deal with today's assholes.)

97 This movie was amazing and revolutionary. Thinking of it as some kind of better eco-version of Transformers is retarded, and shows you haven't seen the movie. Yes, there are some eco-messages in the movie, but you also have to realize that the Na'vi world is completely different from our own. They literally have a world-wide neurological net that nearly all animals can hook into biologically. This is possibly the result of an older scientifically-advanced race on the planet, or, less likely, evolution. Complaining about its liberalness is really bitchy and whiny. Get a life, numbnuts, and watch a freaking spectacular movie. If you say it sucks, you have no perspective.

98

I love movies.  Always have and I always will.  I wasn't going to see this one and the review didn't move me either way. 

I mean,  to sum up your review, "it won't suck as much as you thought if you have a brain" is not an endorsement to drop $50. 

The point of a review is to move the dial.  The audience here is conservative and decidedly pissed off at Hollywood for what can only be called the worst 10 years in movie making history in this country.    Endorse or don't endorse.

Bottom line.

If you are going to pen a review.  Pen a fucking review. 

If you tell me that the plot is a mashed-up Dancing With Wolves and Smurfs but with the added pleasure of insulting your intelligence but without Mary McDonnell's awesome bouncing tits.  Say it.  Don't tell me to endure the bad shit.  If, after three hours only your prostate will be number than your brain.  Say it.  I know its not as bad as people say.  Its always not as bad or as good as people say.  People with brains take that shit for granted.

As a reviewer, the only thing that pisses people off more than an endorsement of a shitty movie is to write a half-assed review of a long-anticipated blockbuster. 

 

99 COMMUNISTA !!!

100 For the life of me, I cannot understand how anyone who calls themselves a conservative can voluntarily give money to the socialist America-haters in Hollywood. That is like voting to go union at work, then bitching about where the union dues go. I have not been to a theater in 8 years, I have not watched one minute of television in 5. Quit being a nancypants and give up the leftist bullshit. It is quite liberating at the end of the day.

101 If it doesn't have Humphrey Bogart, James Cagney or Edward G. Robinson it it, I'll pass.

102 No, really.  CGI is the reason I'm supposed to go?

I've seen CGI.  George Lucas has done it to death.

'Special Effects' aren't special any more.  I've seen entire movies that are CGI, and, believe me, today's 'cutting edge' is tomorrow's overdone, yawn-inducing crap.

You know what I still find interesting?

All the slit-scan stuff in 2001.

The animation in Forbidden Planet.

There are even inventive, surprising effects in low budget movies, silent films, and a lot of other places that I give more credit than CGI output because it wasn't done to death-- CGI has lost its ability to do anything to me but bore me, because it's almost never convincing and usually just badly-done cartoons that get overdone as they're created until they fill the screen with visual noise.  And I didn't see anything in Avatar trailers that looked remarkable in any way.

103 The L word for this film isn't 'leftist' it's 'lazy.' That's much worse for a film.

104 And most sims have better graphics.

105

You know that guy who did a 7-part YouTube series ripping Phantom Menace apart?

I wonder if he'd have a field day with Avatar?

106 Well, considering the review actually says the movie is nothing special , I defintiely decided not to pay to see Mercenaries versus the Smurfs.  And why did the review have to be as long as the movie?  I have to agree with other posters, it certainly did nothing to convince me to see the movie. 

107 GABE!!!! I can't believe that you missed what, for AoSHQ fans, would be an unbelievably important part of the movie! "A scown is a sort of moron." You scown!!! And, wasn't Jake Scully introduced to us as an active duty Marine? But you're right, otherwise, it was mercenaries, so maybe that is a screw up by Cameron.

108 Will it have staying power, in the future, one doubts it. I can watch Aliens any number of times, even though there was a anti corporate message in it. If they had made the Naa'vi vicious creatures like the facehuggiers of HR Giger's imagination., maybe it would work. but it seems ludicrous on it's face

109 You acuialy wasted your money to see this movie? Im not spending my money on a movie so left-wing as bad as that stupid THE GOLDEN COMPASS just leftists propeganda

110 As others have noted, Cameron himself disagrees with you, Gabriel. Love your writing, but this time it seems like someone is trying too hard to be contrarian to me.

111 101 This movie was amazing and revolutionary."

sure pal.

 "Thinking of it as some kind of better eco-version of Transformers is retarded, and shows you haven't seen the movie."

no, its an eco-version of every other shitty CGI infested film from the last 10 years.

" Yes, there are some eco-messages in the movie, but you also have to realize that the Na'vi world is completely different from our own."

wow....sounds exciting.....or something....

" They literally have a world-wide neurological net that nearly all animals can hook into biologically."

maybe they need a neuro-net for the writers, mightve made a better movie.

 "This is possibly the result of an older scientifically-advanced race on the planet, or, less likely, evolution."

**yawn...head tilt**....huh? whats that again?

"Complaining about its liberalness is really bitchy and whiny. Get a life, numbnuts, and watch a freaking spectacular movie. If you say it sucks, you have no perspective."

i could care less about it liberalism, im not expecting anything original out of cameron and co. and i can bitch all i wanna, not bitching about duds like this film is the reason why we get even more of it. and the worst part about it is the stupid plots with new CGI effects. as if i didnt need enough tylenol to get through other light shows ive seen in the theater. i have a fine life if you must know, and i wont tarnish it by giving up 3+ hours to a poorly made cartoon. its filled with gimmicks to get dummies like you to shell out cash. 3D, loud booming noises etc. please, give me a break already.  you can fall for it all you wanna and pretend to be entertained, i won't...i'd rather take a walk outside and smell the air, noob.

112 Tetsuo (this and Clerks make up my top slot for favorite movie of all time)

The first time I saw Clerks I laughed a lot and enjoyed it; I subsequently rewatched it and thought it was really flat and what worked for me in the initial viewing didn't stand up.  It might be the best thing that Kevin Smith will ever do but that's the smallest praise I can imagine.

113 Well, just to piss off the lefties, I tell 'em the movie is an anti-imminent domain screed.  And I remind 'em that it was the lefty members of the supreme court that increased the government's mandate to take people's property away.

114

"Warning on the ticket price, though: because itÂ’s in 3D, tickets are about twice what they usually are."

 Well there's strike three for me right there. Strike one was a dumb and uninspired plot and strike two was the fact that the film was overrun with leftist and multicultural cliches.

 I'll be looking forward to the Phantom Menace guy's epic evisceration of this film.

 

115 "It might be the best thing that Kevin Smith will ever do"

for me, mallrats was his best. it was stupid and it knows how stupid it is. maybe that was the best thing about it.

116 I dunno...seems like there's quite a bit more going on out there, i.e, the FORCED FUCKING SOCIALISM of our country, for me to give a good God damn about a fucking movie about alien Smurfs

117 I haven't seen the movie and won't. Cameron is a hack. But as others have pointed out it is a lefty message movie. I think News Busters has an interview of Cameron saying as much. Sod him and all of Hollywood.

118 They literally have a world-wide neurological net that nearly all animals can hook into biologically.

This may be the most dumbfuck use of the word "literally" ever; and there's some figuratively stiff competition out there.

119

There's almost as much sand in manginas here as over at Arfcom.  For fuck's sake, it's a movie.

Go see it, make up your own mind.  If you're so worried about propaganda, then you're being hypocritical because all the Righty blogs are trashing it and you're buying it hook line and sinker.

If you're so weak willed that seeing a movie is suddenly going to turn you into a granola chomping, patoili soaked hippy...then I can't help you.

I've got my IMAX tickets for the 24th.

120 "There's almost as much sand in manginas here as over at Arfcom.  For fuck's sake, it's a movie."

no, its a shitty, headache inducing, dud plot-line crapfest we've all sat through a zillion times before.

"Go see it, make up your own mind.  If you're so worried about propaganda, then you're being hypocritical because all the Righty blogs are trashing it and you're buying it hook line and sinker."

the 'propaganda' angle gets annoying after 20 films that do it. just like if there were movies constantly being made with a religious slant to it, youd be tired of it also.

"If you're so weak willed that seeing a movie is suddenly going to turn you into a granola chomping, patoili soaked hippy...then I can't help you."

weak willed....man stfu already. nobody thinks theyre gonna walk out a flaming hippy. but WE KNOW we'd walk out disappointed yet again in another monumental waste of cash.

"I've got my IMAX tickets for the 24th."

better you than me, sucker.

121 Posted by: Knaws at December 20, 2009 08:19 AM (tHrW4) Word mac :]

122 for me, mallrats was his best. it was stupid and it knows how stupid it is. maybe that was the best thing about it.

Posted by: str8 outta monongahela at December 20, 2009 09:57 AM (aXnjl)

That's an intriguing take on it and may possibly lead me to see it if I can find it free at the library or something.  I was warned against seeing it by a friend who said it was just plain horrible; although that guy has endured so many Eddie Murphy/Michael Moore clusterfucks that his tastes can be held up to severe ridicule.  I enjoyed the first half of "Chasing Amy" until it just got completely stupid; although presenting Ben Affleck as a clueless douche was some inspired casting.  "Dogma" was just an excruciatingly bad experience; I wanted everybody associated with it to die in a fire.  It even made Chris Rock extremely unfunny which I previously thought was impossible.

123 Posted by: RarestRX at December 20, 2009 10:04 AM (rmNST)

There's no fear of conversion my lad. It's more of who wants to pay good money to sit through 3 hours of a left wing propaganda message. If you do that's fine. As for the rest of us we'll be just as happy to ignore the piece of shit. End of story.

124 Malor's first drooling announcement:
http://minx.cc/?post=294745
[malor]
I will be seeing this on opening night.
Unless I can find a way to an advance screening.
Or murder someone else with a way to an advance screening. Rly.

I know, I know, the plot is very WYSIWYG.
Don't care. It's got Sam Worthington and Sigourney Weaver and Michelle Rodriguez.
And Giovanni Ribisi. And Zoe Saldana (as an alien).
[/malor]

My my, what an Obamanesque disappointment before and after. You were told abundantly in the comments that it was going to be an underperforming asset and yet rushed to donate your sparse disposable income to this ridiculous distraction. I do not begrudge your own silliness, in fact in addition to laughing at Smurfatar I can laugh heartily at Avamalor.

125 "That's an intriguing take on it and may possibly lead me to see it if I can find it free at the library or something."


kevin smith said mallrats was the one movie he made in which he loathed the final product. i found it goofy, enjoyable and light. definitely good for a sunday viewing.

126 Go see it, make up your own mind.  If you're so worried about propaganda, then you're being hypocritical because all the Righty blogs are trashing it and you're buying it hook line and sinker.

Is this the Sunday morning dumbfuck thread?  Why is that being hypocritical?  You realize that having an opinion is not the same thing as propaganda, don't you?  Are you saying that you should just go and see every fucking movie that Whoreyweird upchucks and not pay attention to any reviews so you won't be thought of as a fucking hypocrite?

127 Except that the last time American soldiers went up against lily-white natives (morally white, I mean) was exactly never.

Um ... the Taliban are native Afghans.

Barack Obama is killing them with our military.

You may argue it is justified, but there it is.

128 Gabriel, You are willfully blinded by your love of sci-fi and gee-whiz, out of this world gimmickry.Besides, James Cameron has already stated that the movie is a homily for liberal causes.

129 CGI has lost its ability to do anything to me but bore me, because it's almost never convincing and usually just badly-done cartoons that get overdone as they're created until they fill the screen with visual noise. Personally, I've liked cartoons my whole life. I enjoyed 10,00 BC and might even watch it again. This puppy will go into the NetFlix queue and I'll probably watch it this time next year while the mrs flips through magazines.

130 We Americans are conceited fuckers. Think Hollywood is making movies for us? Think again. They make more money internationally - Europe, Asia and Africa than here. These are precisely the kind of movies that clean up in worldwide distribution. And don't forget, the rest of the worlds moviegoing public are generally even more stupid than Americans. Thus, this left-wing drivel is toxic. Hollywood is turning the world against us and raking in the dough. And one pathetic dweeb, Obama is supposed to counteract this?

131 No problem with your opinion Gabe but you don't have to insult everyone that disagrees.

132 @109, the guy who ripped Phantom Menace in the series of 7 brilliant youtube episodes will probably be too disgusted to touch Smurfatar.
That's my take on it.

133 Got back from the movie, so some answers to questions asked above: * Jake was intro'ed to us as an ex-Marine, medically discharged. His opening voice-over even mentions that his "VA benefits" won't cover the cost of restoring his legs. Likewise, Colonel Quaritch mentions his former service in the same unit Jake was in, but he's visibly past the normal retirement age and is presumably an ex-Marine working as a mercenary. * The reason there was no orbital bombardment option is the same reason that they had to improvise a bomber out of a heavy cargo shuttle and mining explosives, instead of using an actual bomber. They were not a full-on military force, they did not have any strategic weapons, just small arms, infantry support weapons, and VTOL gunships.

134

Cpt. Hate, what I'm saying is people here and over at Arf are like, "Fuck this film, it's Libtard propaganda."

Where did they get this insight since they haven't seen the film?

Righty blogs that have trashed the movie...which is a kind of propaganda. 

People who are dismissing this movie out of hand because Breitbart hammered it, or Hotair, or whatever are buying into propaganda...just on the other side.

I'm going to see it.  I'm not going to buy into all the Avatar hate until I see the shit. 

135 i just hate it when people say condescending things like "oh i just go cause its entertaining, thats all"  as if me and others are just a bunch of fuddy duddies who never go out and do anything. personally i get entertained by a decent plotline that can make you think a little more than you normally would. and CGI isnt bad if it's applied the right way, not a 3 hour series of whisping lights and booms every 10 seconds.

136 "Where did they get this insight since they haven't seen the film?"

gee lemme guess....the trailers? it doesnt take a rocket scientist to figure it out, watch 2-3 trailers of it and you can pretty much sum up what will happen. come on.

137

I'm going to see it.  I'm not going to buy into all the Avatar hate until I see the shit. 

Posted by: RarestRX at December 20, 2009 10:34 AM (rmNST)

That's cool; I'm certainly not gonna dictate how you spend your hard-earned cash.  If that right gets taken away, it won't be due to the likes of me.

I did run into a person once that told me the only way he'd ever see a Michael Moore film would be to go to a multiplex, buy a ticket to another flick and then sneak in to the fat fuck's agit-prop crockumentary.  When he first said that it sounded a bit extreme but reflecting further it made sense.

138 Gabe, you managed to tell us very little about Avatar, and a great deal about yourself.

139 I understand it’s possible to believe that a single disapproving reference to “shock and awe” (against a helpless village of women and children) and villainous calls for “fighting terrorism with terrorism” and “preemptive strikes” are indictments of the War on Terrorism.

You figure those exact words were used by accident? The left who sees this movie cheers about what an incredible swipe it is at President Bush and the Iraq war, and even the US Military, but you missed all that, somehow.

The best description of this movie I've heard is "a really expensive screen saver"

Think Hollywood is making movies for us?

No, but since the US is the biggest market for films worldwide in terms of money, they ought to be.

140 # 123

There's almost as much sand in manginas here as over at Arfcom.  For fuck's sake, it's a movie.

Go see it, make up your own mind.  If you're so worried about propaganda, then you're being hypocritical because all the Righty blogs are trashing it and you're buying it hook line and sinker.

If you're so weak willed that seeing a movie is suddenly going to turn you into a granola chomping, patoili soaked hippy...then I can't help you.

If you haven't noticed that America is probably over as the great experiment in human freedom maybe you cannot understand this happened by a slow drip of propaganda over 50 years or so.  We now have a President that sat in a church that damned America....he sat there for 20 years.  People voted for him because they think such things are harmless, you know like a simple movie with a leftist message is harmless. 

Or your kids text books, or every sitcom that portrays white men as testosterone-poisoned dufuses, or gay rights shoved down our throats, or killing babies cause you have named them fetuses.  Or welfare from cradle to grave, or trying to run a country on methane farts and windmills.  Conservatives are not "worried," that they will be overcome by the "message."  We are conservatives because we have NEVER been overwhelmed by the message, nor have we ever accepted the message.  The reality is that most people are sheep, liberal elites know this and prey upon those sheep, who have the numbers to destroy this nation, and us with them...get it?

141

The opening...from the script.

It is a century from now, and the population of our tired
planet has tripled.  Finally, drowning in its own toxic
waste, starvation and poverty, the population has topped
out at a nice even 20 billion.

The Earth is dying, covered with a gray mold of human
civilization.  Even the moon is spiderwebbed with city
lights on its dark side.  Overpopulation, over-
development, nuclear terrorism, environmental warfare
tactics, radiation leakage from power plants and waste
dumps, toxic waste, air pollution, deforestation,
pollution and overfishing of the oceans, global warming,
ozone depletion, loss of biodiversity through
extinction...

I guess James has never seen the gray mold of human uncivilization.  And what the fuck is "environmental warfare tactics" if not this script?

142 The Na'vi are native to Pandora? Blue folks in a green jungle? Regarding the propaganda, you have to try hard not to see it. If in a movie you do something like changing the number of stars on the flag badge on a soldier's uniform, and then say "See, that's not an American Flag, wingnut. There are 42 stars!", you are fooling only those who want to fooled and those that do not have a choice.

143 But are there any blue boobies in it? I guess I will wait till free movie Monday at Redbox DVD. It's my way of getting back at Hollywood for producing such trash.

144

They literally have a world-wide neurological net that nearly all animals can hook into biologically - Elhaym

Sooo, there's no carnivors on this planet?  A planet of herbavors? And there's still a single green leaf to be found, or they control their populations voluntarily? idk, just wondering how this could possibly work.

6 "Except that the last time American soldiers went up against lily-white natives (morally white, I mean) was exactly never."  Yeah, only because the Cherokee never fought back. -Josh

He makes a great point Gabe, y'all are forgetting the whole 7^th Cavalry thing? Those soldiers were busy raping children and murdering women & old folks before (and after) Custer got what he deserved. Not isolated, it was planned and approved by Washington.

145 "The Na'vi are native to Pandora?

Blue folks in a green jungle?"


ladies and gents.....the thread winner eman hahahahahaha

that was good.

146 jehu, "Go see it, make up your own mind." For free?

147 "They literally have a world-wide neurological net that nearly all animals can hook into biologically - Elhaym"

hahahaha why am i still laughing at this line? lol

i know the guy likes the movie but....lolol

148 Sorry Gabe, but I'll take the filmmaker's word for it. Cameron himself has described this as an antiwar, pro-Green film.

149 Stolen from Knaws, It is a century from now, and the population of our tired planet has tripled. Finally, drowning in its own toxic waste, starvation and poverty, the population has topped out at a nice even 20 billion. "The Earth is dying, covered with a gray mold of human civilization. Even the moon is spiderwebbed with city lights on its dark side. Overpopulation, over- development, nuclear terrorism, environmental warfare tactics, radiation leakage from power plants and waste dumps, toxic waste, air pollution, deforestation, pollution and overfishing of the oceans, global warming, ozone depletion, loss of biodiversity through extinction..." The entire motivating theme of the movie is Left-wing propaganda. What does Cameron have to do, use the Soviet national anthem as the main score? The central theme of the movie is that human technological progress and Capitalism are evil, world-wrecking enterprises, (says the director who wallows in both). To borrow from "Dances with Whales", "Can you not see this movie sucks?"

150 My 19 y o son and his crew of guys and gals went last nite. They dont give a rip about or really understand the nuances of "messages." They thought it sucked. They did say the CGI was good, but they wanted more action. The only scene they liked was the end war scene. It was the only interesting point, in their opinion.

151 IÂ’ll see Avatar again when IÂ’m visiting my brother for Christmas. If he pays.

Cheap date, you are.

152

"...environmental warfare tactics..."

I'm thinking that what Cameron means by this is NOT Greenpeace, but the use of things like 'agent orange' to destroy the 'environment' of the enemy. Tactical deforestation, poisoning water supplies (the British are infamous for that), slaughtering the buffalo and other things large armies do.

153 "They literally have a world-wide neurological net that nearly all animals can hook into biologically" The planet as organism - so it's possible the idea for this was lifted from Sid Meier's Alpha Centauri? Nwabudike Morgan, call your office!

154

Gabe already knows via Twitter what I thought of Avatar, so allow me to quote from Gabe's review:

"In fact, the plot and characters are pretty dull."

If that was on the poster, would you go see it?

Now look at everything he has to apologize for before getting to that observation.

You know that video review of The Phantom Menace Ace posted here the other day? Virtually every criticism in that video applies equally here.

In fact, the plot and characters are pretty dull.

For 2 1/2+ hours, plus all of the cliches mentioned above.

 

155 Or Harry Harrison's "Deathworld" perhaps? It's been done before, literally!

156

I did not find it "gorgeous" at all.  The CGI was comparable to most modern video games and because Cameron uses it on things that aren't real to begin with, it doesn't have to be all that good to be reasonably convincing.   Even still, nothing looks really all that tangible.  I never feel like the Na'vi were actually there. 

There are some very pretty things here and there, but if Cameron had made the rest of it real and focused all his CGI budget on those few things, I imagine they would have looked completely real as opposed to waffling between realistic and cartoony.

157 let me guess....this is the movie...

you hear the marines story of gettin his legs blown off in some war etc...

im betting the humans are all very tech dependent for everything including gettin dressed.

big vistas of space in 3D and this pandora planet....'pandora' gee cameron...jus what were you thinking when u came up with that name *eye roll*

i bet when the humans arrive on pandora you get lush scenery filled with running alien animals and shit. and the actors are all amazed by it with the same looks on their mugs as you in the theater.

the 'mercs' learn about the na'vi, and how they need to be 'coerced' into letting go of their beloved, organ-planet's resources. cause you know...its what humans do...we're like locusts running amok across the multiverse.

crippled marine gets a chance to fit into his blue rubber suit and get involved with the locals. gee let me guess....he meets a girl alien and falls for her. then of course he learns of the navi culture and how wondrous it is and then...

see i cant even get through it, its been done so many times before. no amount of dumb effects could hypnotize me long enough to get thru this shit.

158 Only thing keeping me from seeing this in theaters is the threat of a three hour run time.

I got my ass caught out with LoTR, hold the 128 ounce Bucket o' Rum and Coke in the theater, and had to get my ass up 2/3 of the way through.

I'll wait till this comes out on Bluray thanks.

As for lulz, or lols, or lollerkeekles or whateverthefuckyourtagis, lighten up francis.

159 Slightly OT, From the UK we hear "Questions over business deals of UN climate change guru Dr Rajendra Pachauri The head of the UN's climate change panel - Dr Rajendra Pachauri - is accused of making a fortune from his links with 'carbon trading' companies" http://www.telegraph.co.uk Al Gore has a cousin, it seems.

160

...he meets a girl alien and falls for her

And she is the daughter of the tribe's Chief! And she has a sentient raccoon for a friend. She can paint with all the colours of the wind too. Good golly she jumps off cliffs for fun, just like the Avatar trailer shows!

(yes Pocahonatas made me literally barf!)

161 "Only thing keeping me from seeing this in theaters is the threat of a three hour run time."

one hour wouldnt do the trick?

"I got my ass caught out with LoTR, hold the 128 ounce Bucket o' Rum and Coke in the theater, and had to get my ass up 2/3 of the way through."

stupid is as stupid does, stupid.

"I'll wait till this comes out on Bluray thanks."

who gives a shit.

"As for lulz, or lols, or lollerkeekles or whateverthefuckyourtagis, lighten up francis."

personally, i am lightened up, i love making fun of this shit. its obvious with my mounting posts, hopefully more to follow.

162 Garbage like this would never be on AoS a few years ago.

163 "And she is the daughter of the tribe's Chief! And she has a sentient raccoon for a friend. She can paint with all the colours of the wind too. Good golly she jumps off cliffs for fun, just like the Avatar trailer shows!"

lolol really? hahaha i bet the 'tribe chief' is all aged and wise. i bet he's probably blind or has some ailment to him. oh and i bet when the humans knock down this god-tree of theirs he keels over lolol

164 The backplot of Aliens was also about the "evil corporation" who was willing to see people die so that it could make a profit. I don't see people screaming about that one being a movie full of Leftist propaganda. I don't see why everyone is up in arms about Avatar. The analogies people are trying to draw just completely fall apart if they actually watch the movie. I don't remember Blackwater razing villages to clear space for oil refineries, but maybe I missed that news story.

165 When I think of Avatar, I keep hearing someone trying to pronounce "protagonist".

166 All this will make me feel much better when I bittorrent this in a day or 2

167 "I don't see why everyone is up in arms about Avatar."

some people loathe the message the film tries to dole out. you know, the same frickin message in every damn film these days, you dont get annoyed by it? no?

after hearing about the movie and how 'revolutionary' it was gonna be....come on, a plot about the noble savages? geesh with all the money cameron has to toss around youd think he could at least come up with something just a tad more origional. i mean for crying out loud, blade runner came out eons ago and has more originality than this dreck.

168

123 There's almost as much sand in manginas here as over at Arfcom.  For fuck's sake, it's a movie.

Ach du lieber!  That's what I said.

169 Hey straight, feel free to go fuck yourself.

170 Wow, Gabriel continues to drag down this site and make it his own personal Dem-lite haven.  But I suppose Gabriel is just indicative of the GOP's gutless RINO wing. 

What more would Avatar have to do to be considered to be liberal propaganda?  It's already got multiple shots at Bush, the war on terrorism, the troops, evil corporations, and the director has explicitly said these were intentional.  And yet good ole Gabe does his Schultz from Hogan's Heroes impersonation, "I see nothing...I hear nothing." 

171 "Hey straight, feel free to go fuck yourself."

gee coming from someone who got tossed out of a theater.....

172 "And yet good ole Gabe does his Schultz from Hogan's Heroes impersonation, "I see nothing...I hear nothing." "

it's condescending tripe, "i only go for entertainment....because youre all so serious minded and cant have any real fun like me....cause im brilliant."

that type of shit.

173 Did I mention the Smurf sex?

There's smurf sex?

174 So people who have a problem with the message of the movie... are you saying it IS okay to wipe out an indigenous species so that you can take their shit? I didn't think so, so what message in the movie is actually making you so upset?

I mean, really, the protagonist in the film is unquestionably on the right side of this. The movie isn't preaching a bad message. People just seem to be up in arms because they insist on drawing parallels to the current political climate as if the movie is somehow damning the right, and then mad because the right is nothing like the bad guys in the movie.

Of course we're not. Which is why the parallel fails in the first place, and it's kind of ridiculous to even draw it in the first place and be offended by it.

I think Gabriel's point, or mine at least, is you're only going to be offended by the message in this movie if you're actually trying real hard to be offended, because the bad guys in the movie don't resemble the right at all.

175 169, Propaganda is not just designed to make you think something that did not happen actually did happen. Propaganda is also designed to make you ready to believe what ever you are told. Propagandists also know they don't need and don't expect everyone to believe their crap, they just need a minimum fraction of the population to swallow it. BTW, Firefly starts with the same premise: the Earth is used up and must be abandoned (at least by the Elites and whomever gets to go with them). But Firefly at least was more subtle about who or what was to blame. Firefly also put it 500 years in the future, making it remote enough to avoid AGW-type hysteria and plausible that a slow accumulation of insults finally dispatched the Earth's ecosystems. Not so in Avatar. A dead Earth is right around the corner. Urgent! Urgent! And what is the model for the fate of Pandora? Why it's something that happened 100 years ago, here in the USA. Native cultures overrun by rampaging invaders with advanced technology. See the symmetry?

176 176 "Hey straight, feel free to go fuck yourself."

gee coming from someone who got tossed out of a theater.....

Posted by: str8 outta monongahela at December 20, 2009 12:11 PM (aXnjl)

Apparently you aren't smart enough to 1. notice that 128 ounces would be a gallon, something that probably is sarcasm; 2. got tossed? Got up to piss. Try some reading comp, it'll do you wonders on internet comment boards; and 3. Why are you still here? Didn't I tell you to go fuck yourself?

177 Maybe Die Hard is also a piece of Leftist propaganda. I mean, after all, Hans Gruber wanted money and killed a bunch of people to get it. The Left thinks conservatives are all greedy and will do anything to get money, so clearly they meant for their right to be represented by Hans Gruber, and their hero John McClaine, who is all about saving the common people, is a representative of the left.

I can't believe people would even watch Die Hard and give money to the Leftists who are poisoning our minds with this message.

178 Overreactmuch, you are not that bright.

The message of the movie is not about the fact it is wrong to to wipe out an indigenous species so that you can take their shit.  The message of the movie is that Americans are a people who wipes out indigenous folks to take their shit (and ruin the environment).

179 "So people who have a problem with the message of the movie... are you saying it IS okay to wipe out an indigenous species so that you can take their shit? I didn't think so, so what message in the movie is actually making you so upset?"

ill pretend you really didnt ask me if i thought it was fine and dandy to wipe out an entire population of aliens/people/whatever. the message doesnt upset me, if anything its an annoyance because it's been done over and over and over and over and over...i mean come on.

"I mean, really, the protagonist in the film is unquestionably on the right side of this. The movie isn't preaching a bad message. People just seem to be up in arms because they insist on drawing parallels to the current political climate as if the movie is somehow damning the right, and then mad because the right is nothing like the bad guys in the movie."

how could you NOT draw parallels? the director said it was his anti war message...i mean, does it need to be drawn out for you any more than it already is? lol

"I think Gabriel's point, or mine at least, is you're only going to be offended by the message in this movie if you're actually trying real hard to be offended, because the bad guys in the movie don't resemble the right at all."

i dont like gabriels 'point' myself. gabriels point was very condescending and assholish to be honest. just review the damn movie, dont lecture me as i'm not some brainless zombie shuffling about.  he liked the movie, i get it, he doesnt know good movies for shit in my humble opinion.

180 Overreact much is overreacting.

I don't have to give money to James Cameron to preach at me with a shitty story and crap effects about noble savages, you dumb fuck. So I won't.

181 179, you must be joking. No one here is saying it's ok to go Medieval on the Natives. We are saying History is complicated and movies like this one teach folks a simplistic and misleading view of the past, the present, and the likely future.

182

A round-up of reviews that are the opposite of Gabe's (other than saying the plot sucks etc.) And there are more stand-alone reviews at Big Hollywood too for those interested.

183 ""I got my ass caught out with LoTR, hold the 128 ounce Bucket o' Rum and Coke in the theater, and had to get my ass up 2/3 of the way through.""

you used the pohrase 'caught out" ive never heard that before. so i assumed as anyone would that you got 'caught' with the rum or whatever it was you had and got thrown out you idiot. try using phrases most people understand okay champ?

my reading comp. is just fine, your writing however, is horrible.

i could further trash you about actually going to see LOTR, but i wont be so harsh, seeing as youre dumb enough..life must be difficult for you.

184 Waterhouse,

I never told you to go see it. Why did my comments anger you so much you feel the need to call me a dumb fuck?

I really don't understand why everyone is so touchy with regards to this movie.

185 If I hadn't already thought the trailers made the movie look like a preachy played-out boring clangingly dull overplayed-message piece of CGI shit, the "planetary neural net" mentioned here would have sealed the deal.

What a hilariously stupid idea.

186 I really don't understand why everyone is so touchy with regards to this movie.

Learn to read.

187 I really don't understand why everyone is so touchy with regards to this movie. Posted by: overreact much? On that we agree. You do not understand.

188 "I really don't understand why everyone is so touchy with regards to this movie."

when your intelligence is insulted time and again.....

189 The overreact fellow came close to attacking "Die Hard". Have a Blue Team ready.

190 I forgot to mention that the great granddaddy of Na'vi was this:
tinyurl.com/58nadq

Pretty radical for its time, it is voiced by Jeremy Piven, and I will get it on bluray even if I have to murder a kitten every time G-d mafturbatef.

191 lol i still cant believe overreact asked me if i thought it was ok to kill an entire population of fake blue aliens on a green planet lolol

192 Well, if all we're going to do is throw insults around, fine.

All I see is a bunch of whiny drama queens who desperately feel the need to be offended. I can understand people not wanting to see the movie, but I don't get the whole "up in arms" attitude. I thought it was the Left's shtick to get offended by random shit and get all whiny and personal about it?

193 "This may be the most dumbfuck use of the word "literally" ever; and there's some figuratively stiff competition out there." Except it literally is a neurological net... dumbfuck. Not figuratively... literally. They have 'figurative' ethernet cables hanging out of the back of their heads that they can plug into trees, plants, other animals, each other. There is also evidence that each creature and plantform with these cables is a part of a much larger overall sentient lifeform. Watch the movie before you act like you know what you're talking about, or you look like a total dumbass. "Sooo, there's no carnivors on this planet? A planet of herbavors? And there's still a single green leaf to be found, or they control their populations voluntarily? idk, just wondering how this could possibly work." No, there are carnivores. The creatures aren't plugged in all the time to the net (only the plants and trees are connected 100% of the time) and there's hunting.

194 Watch the movie before you act like you know what you're talking about, or you look like a total dumbass.

From all I've heard, spending money on this putrid pile of shit is what would actually make someone look like a dumbass.

195 "People just seem to be up in arms because they insist on drawing parallels to the current political climate as if the movie is somehow damning the right, and then mad because the right is nothing like the bad guys in the movie."

James Cameron has come out and said this movie is an attack on the US's war on terrorisim, war in Iraq, overall foreign policy, environmental stance, etc.

And I encourage everyone to read Jeffrey Wells' gloating on just how liberal Avatar is...http://www.hollywood-elsewhere.com/2009/12/not_right-wing.php

196 I really don't understand why everyone is so touchy with regards to this movie.

I do. They're paranoid, insecure fucktards. This movie is not effective propaganda. Leftards may draw horribly twisted parallels between it and our world, but they will not be converting anybody with it because only a complete fuckwad would think the parallel is valid, and if they do, they're already leftards.

197 Another stupid cartoon movie.  These things give me a headache with their artificiality.  Fairy tales have more believability, at least you have to use your imagination (i.e. your BRAIN) a little.  Avatar.  Yawn. 

198 198, So Cameron makes Gaia come to life on film. Not only is the Unity of Life a guiding principle, it's a physical reality. Doubling the magnitude of our crimes against Pandora. Sounds fascinating.

199 Avatar isn't a good movie, it's a great movie. And if it wins any Oscars (which it probably will) it won't be because of its slightly liberal messages, not like An Inconvenient Truth did. Badmouthing a great movie like this when you haven't even watched it for a perceived grievance against its leftist messages is whiny and dumb. I'm reminded of what the Left was criticized for the past several years when they've whined about the most inconsequential shit. Now you're doing it. "No, but this is important because of all the Socialism... Healthcare Reform... blah blah blah..." Get a fucking life, fool.

200

People......use your anger constructively..

We are being forced into socialism with the attendant unsustainable debt...and here we are arguing about a fucking movie about fucking blue Smurfs.

It's happening...and it's happening fucking NOW!!!!!!!

Fuck James Cameron and his computer cartoon movie. Seriously, who the fuck cares??

Jesus, Maria, and Jose...fucking focus here, people.

Fuck

201 James Cameron has come out and said this movie is an attack on the US's war on terrorisim, war in Iraq, overall foreign policy, environmental stance, etc.

Let Cameron keep making these comparisons. Nobody will actually buy it except other stupid liberals. All it will do is show politically moderate individuals how stupid and crazy liberals are. No sane person will see any real parallels between Saddam or Bin Laden and the Na'vi. I grew up with leftist propaganda in the form of surreal comparisons like this one and they had absolutely no influence on me in terms of political persuasion because they were so obviously removed from reality that it never even occurred to me to make a connection between the two.

Btw, do you have a link for this?

202 Posted by: Elhaym at December 20, 2009 12:32 PM (zUeys)

You believe a world depicted in a CGI movie is a literal entity?  Really?  That's where beings literally exist?  I think you're Cameron's target audience, genius.  Please keep posting for everybody's entertainment.

203 204, Whose whining? Avatar is just more of the same old shit.

204 There are probably no actual messages in the movie that people here would disagree with. If lefties try to make something out of it that it isn't, then call them out on their dumbassery. Does anyone here think carpet bombing sovereign peoples who have done no offense to you is ok? Think killing women and children is ok? Unlike our trees, theirs are alive. Did you bitch and moan about The Lord of the Rings? Was that too liberal for you and thus a piece of shit movie? Also, just because they've been badmouthed a lot in this movie... the effects in this movie aren't like things you've seen before. They allowed Cameron to really do things people haven't been able to do before. Every single human being in the movie is done by CG. I had to convince my wife of this afterwards, who didn't believe me. She needed to see citations. This isn't your nephew's cgi.

205 Every single human being in the movie is done by CG.

As if that's a virtue.

206 beedubya, Turning your back to Lefty crap and in doing so denying them your money is a constructive act. Spreading the word that Avatar is just another element of the Leftist enterprise is a constructive act. No one act will cancel the curse of Leftism. Johnny, congratulations on your well-armored mind. Please note there are many out there who are not so well protected. Giving those folks a bit of help in seeing through the crap is not a sign of weakness.

207 Unlike our trees, theirs are alive.

Time to turn off the morphine drip.

208 Elhaym, Does your wife know you are in love with a man you've never met?

209 So, to sum up:

Hysterical he-bitches don't want to be preached at in theaters. Got it. 
Other hysterical he-bitches are so oversensitive they can't just sit down and watch shit blow up without "digging deeper to find the true moral of the story". Got it.
Other hysterical he-bitches think it's a "betrayal" if I want to go to the movies or write that one doesn't totally suck hairy donkey balls.  (I think there may be some overlap with these groups of he-bitches.) Got it.
Finally, hysterical he-bitches think my writing is more appropriate for DKos or LGF. Got it.

Oh, and a few of our long-time commenters are suffering some kind of existential ennui that, frankly, has me concerned because I like them, though I don't know how to help them.

That's all. Have a nice day!

210 Unlike our trees, theirs are alive.

Our trees are alive too...

211 "Unlike our trees, theirs are alive." Time to turn off the morphine drip. Posted by: Waterhouse Looks like palin steele has a wife now.

212 "Unlike our trees, theirs are alive."<<<<< lol

213 209,

You hit it right on the head. There's no message in this movie that wouldn't be universally accepted by both the Right and the Left. So really, it seems like the problem people have with it isn't the message of the movie, but that (apparently) James Cameron said it's meant as a Leftist message. Anyone have a link to him saying that, by the way? If it's branded as Leftist message, it therefore leaves the Right out of it and making it sound like they're the bad guys, because it makes it sound like they don't support the obviously correct path. It's the equivalent of saying that the Right hopes all poor people starve to death and die.

And of course, people are playing right into it by agreeing that the movie is a Leftist message.

It's not. The message IN THE ACTUAL MOVIE is, simply, "don't kill people just so you can take their shit". That's it. That's all that's there. People who are getting pissed off about that and helping brand that as a Leftist message are doing a disservice to the Right.

214 148 But are there any blue boobies in it? ---------- I once saw an unsunstantiated internet rumor that Cameron spent a lot of time getting the boobs to look right.

215 And other hysterical he-bitches can't understand that shitty overplayed CGI is no reason to watch a stupid movie with dull plot and characters.

216 214, *sigh*

217 You believe a world depicted in a CGI movie is a literal entity? Really? That's where beings literally exist? I think you're Cameron's target audience, genius. Please keep posting for everybody's entertainment. Posted by: Captain Hate at December 20, 2009 12:43 PM (2Uu3I) Literal doesn't mean necessarily mean real you idiot. Crack open a dictionary please before you 'entertain' us any more. Literal means you're not using a metaphor, that you are using exact language that does not need to be exaggerated. In fiction you can use metaphors or use literal language, just like in nonfiction. The neural net in Avatar is a literal, not figurative, neural net. The fact that it is fictional does not change this. Was Tom Sawyer a figurative human being? No, he was literally a human being, just fictional. Again, please actually learn the meaning of a word before making yourself look stupid.

218 Posted by: Gabriel Malor at December 20, 2009 12:53 PM (Mi2wf) Hmmm, rough words from Mr. Malor. Message received. mac :]

219

211 beedubya,

Turning your back to Lefty crap and in doing so denying them your money is a constructive act.

We are constantly being bombarded with lefty propagandist crap from all sides; the so-called news media, TV shows, school teachers and professors, clueless leftard musicians and actors...and it ain't gonna stop.

Avatar is just more of the same...only with computer-generated alien Smurfs!!! Who fucking cares???

But RIGHT HERE, RIGHT NOW...the fucking Donkeys are turning this country into a socialist, insolvent piece of shit

 

220 I refuse to sit for three hours in a movie theater and watch Dances With Smurfs.

221 Yes, I know our trees are alive. My family actually owns a tree farm, so I do know a bit about them and have no problem cutting them down for profit. Please forgive my haste in typing. What I meant to convey is that their trees are alive in more of a sentient fashion. They are a component of a larger sentient entity, unlike ours.

222

Look, all these comments on the movie are great and all; but NO ONE wants to address Gabe's outrageously RACIST comment!??

Have any of you ever even MET a Ten-foot-tall Smurf?  Let alone actually sat down and talked to one??  They're just people like me and you. 

So, Gabe hates and fears Blues.  Is that any different from hating Blacks?  Is skin-color ALL you see?

And, seriously people, Acromegaly is no joke.

RACISTS.

223 "IÂ’ll see Avatar again when IÂ’m visiting my brother for Christmas. If he pays."

That is an equivalent of MalorCare. Unsustainable without a pool of money to tap from, but with a Right To See Movies, absolutely necessary.

224 224, I agree. The crap comes from all directions and is relentless. In turn, our response should do the same. Rejecting Avatar is a small step, but a good one, too.

225 What I meant to convey is that their trees are alive in more of a sentient fashion. They are a component of a larger sentient entity, unlike ours.

You've already made clear how stupid the movie and its fans are. No further examples or clarification are necessary, thanks.

226 "There you go. That made me think of Finding Nero, which was just WAY WAY over the top propaganda. And it's aimed at kids! Hate Finding Nero."

Finding Nero can be tough on a sensitive soul like mine, but I am still shaking when I think of that time when I was exfoliating and thought there was a modicum of privacy, and all of a sudden I Found Caligula. Horror. Oh the Horror.

227 What I meant to convey is that their trees are alive in more of a sentient fashion. They are a component of a larger sentient entity, unlike ours. Posted by: Elhaym You sure about that?

228 my reading comp. is just fine, your writing however, is horrible.

i could further trash you about actually going to see LOTR, but i wont be so harsh, seeing as youre dumb enough..life must be difficult for you.

Posted by: str8 outta monongahela at December 20, 2009 12:24 PM (aXnjl)

You need to get out more then, failure.

229 I'll wait for the Robot Chicken version.

230 This movie's plot, from all accounts, is Fern Gully meets Braveheart. In other words, a pristine, perfect wilderness is destroyed by the evil white man, and a group of rag tag natives will band together and defeat an overwhelming technological and organized force. How fucking original.

The mantra of the left can be summed up in Susan Sontag's quote: "The white race is a cancer on human history." This movie's plot in a nutshell is that. Heck, its Dances With Wolves's plot in a nutshell, and that's 20 years old.

3-D sucked in the early 80's when they tried to ram it down our throats, and it sucks now. I've seen a few modern 3-D movies and they aren't any more technologically advanced than Jaws 3-D in that category. This is all about attempting to get around the bootleg DVD market by making the films too technical to be copied with a handheld camcorder.

Visually, this movie looks like a fucking cartoon. Nothing wrong with animation, but the ads for this are less "stunning" than The Polar Express or Beowolf, both of which used this crappy "life like" animation and green-screening to bore us to death. Heck, its less stunning than fucking Aladdin, and that's based solely on Princess Jasmine's midriff confusing me las to whether I could date an animation cell. This movie has no fucking originality, no matter what Cameron's people are selling.

And that's all before the anti-American, anti-civilization, anti-white slant. For crying out loud, I'm waiting for the moment in the previews---because fuck you if you think I'm seeing this in the theater----when a character turns to another and says, "Maybe we've lost something in all our technology and progress. Maybe they're actually more advanced for eschewing all that." Yeah, fuck you, I'm not wearing a loincloth, dying from dysentary, or having my house burned down for suggesting the Earth goes around the sun---my civilization must be inferior to these back-to-nature, no-carbon-footprint assholes. Yeah, I wish I were a starving forest dweller, worshipping cave paintings and solar eclipses, using my hand as toilet paper, and dying as an emaciated skeleton because I don't have the means to store food for longer than 2 weeks because refrigeration and preservatives are the work of the Great White Devil and I  can't manage to understand or work crop rotation or irrigation. Better to hunt naked and die stupid than be an asshole living in a warm home with food and running water, right James?

This is Cameron's vanity project, a gift for Titanic. Much like Peter Jackson's awful King Kong was a gift for LOTR. And Cameron's ego is so large, its like Lucas's when he made those putrid Star Wars prequels (Lucas's battle cry? "FUCK THE FANBOYS!") Let's hope this ends up as poorly received as Jackson's Kong and Lucas's prequel's. And let's hope Hollywood gets a giant fucking atom bomb launched on it, courtesy of Iran's "enlightened" regime and their heroes Hugo Chavez and Fidel Castro offering places ot launch it from.

Assholes.

231 For crying out loud...Cameron has always had these save the earth, corporations are evil, nature is good, people are greedy, etc. messages in all of his films.  Where has everybody been?   He said in an interview on the Today Show that the plot centers on how greed and imperialism "tends to destroy the environment..." and how the human characters in the sci-fi flick "are doing the same thing on another pristine planet that we've done on earth."  I could care less about that.  But the people I know who have seen it said it was a boring plot and too long.  The only good thing were the effects, but having to wear the dumb glasses was a pain.  So I'll skip it. 

232 235,

There's not a single moment in the movie where they say anything resembling "Maybe we've lost something in all our technology and progress". You can say to yourself, "Well, I know the director is secretly thinking it, so I'm going to get mad anyway!", but it's simply not in the movie.

This is another case of people getting upset about something that just isn't there.

233 And hell, even Aliens had the "Sometimes I wonder which species is worse, Burke. You don't see them fucking each other over for a margin" line. I don't remember anyone getting all pissy over that.

234

Gabe, how 'bout if those of us who can't stand preachy leftist drivel passing itself off as plot and dialogue just wait until the film is available on Netflix, then watch it at home with the sound off?   If it's that shit-hot visually won't we be satisfied. w/o having to be insulted?

@Elohym:  "Badmouthing a great movie like this when you haven't even watched it for a perceived grievance against its leftist messages is whiny and dumb."

Yeah, I guess we all need to go out and buy a copy of "An Inconvenient Truth" before we judge it on the basis of what other reviewers have said about it.   Your argument sounds like one an owner of a financially-shaky Googleplex would make.

Out here in the real world movies and books are rated by word-of-mouth and reputation.  That's why so many die within a few weeks of their release.  Those who have seen/read the work recommend it or...don't.

 Cameron has announced his bias, so he has beshat himself  by antagonizing conservatives who might have given him the benefit of a doubt.  Many of us won't sit in a theatre for three hours just to get our "fair share of abuse".

 

235 I like the technology of the Na'vi longbow, because it does not emit carbon. Also, it can be used to shooting vegetables when you absolutely must kill something. However, I tried pulling a longbow once and found it was hard.
All that have now is my blue Na'vi like loincloth, and a toy pterodactyl.

Anyone get a lightsaber they want to donate to a good home?

236 Thank goodness, 237, that Cameron isn't that hacky a film maker. He just uses the 17 fucking hours in the movie to imply that---because the Marines betray their people for the Natives because they're so fucking perfect.

I'll notice you don't quibble with anything else i say. Heh. I wonder why....

I'll assume you're the asshole Gabriel Malor, 234, because you've somehow seen this movie before it came out. Get bent and go to the Daily Kos, fart-knocker.

237 eman, I prefer to wait for the 30 Second Bunny Theater version myself.

238 238: "And hell, even Aliens had the "Sometimes I wonder which species is worse, Burke. You don't see them fucking each other over for a margin" line. I don't remember anyone getting all pissy over that."
----Ah, so Cameron is that hacky of a filmmaker.

We're pissy, you cowardly liberal bitch, because we're finally waking up and noticing how much Hollywood shits on everything American.

239 241,

The movie came out Friday. It's Sunday. I'm a little confused by what exactly you're accusing me of.

As for the rest... it seemed kind of pointless to argue with you. But I figured I'd at least argue with the part where you were provably wrong. Or rather, that you'll be waiting a really long time for that preview you describe.

240 Why should I shell out ten bucks to see this flick? Because the special effects are cool? Why should I shell out ten bucks to help promote an obvious message with which I strongly disagree? Just what do I owe to Cameron and Hollywood and Filmmaking that should compel me to give them my time and money? I shall wait until someone makes a movie with superb and stunning special effects that I would see without them.

241 If you're "finally waking up", I think that says a hell of a lot more about you than it does me. Leftist leaning in Hollywood movies is nothing you.

And calling me a cowardly liberal because I think you're overreacting to a friggin' movie? Jesus, see things in absolutes, much?

242 244, my mistake. I did not realize it came out this weekend. For that, I apologize.

"As for the rest... it seemed kind of pointless to argue with you."
---it is when you're defending the indefensible, asshat.

"But I figured I'd at least argue with the part where you were provably wrong."
---thanks for admitting---underhandedly, like all liberal bitches---that everything I said about it is right, minus my exaggeration of what a bad line in the movie would look like. And agreeing that that is the message, despite the line being absent.

Go back to your fucking commune and burn the flag, hippie.

243 ummm hey overreact......there werent blogs back when aliens came out. also, we're talking about avatar not aliens. geez....but now that you mention it, yes aliens was lefty also, and it was an overdone film too. the success of the forst alien was because you didnt SEE the whole creature until the end....'aliens' saturated us with the things and rendered them....unscary. so cameron is a hack i say.

and i laugh at the defense people are coming to about this crap-fest.  the plot stinks, and for all the nimrods who gloat over the overdone effects, i say get real. you act as if it hasnt been seen or done before, as if this is a first. please, just how different could it be from fuckin star wars? you guys are taken in too easily im afraid.

a planet called pandora....blue aliens on a green jungle planet....space mercenaries hell bent on exploiting their resources and a neural-net everything can hook into lmaooo get the fuck outta here with that dumb shit. lolol

suckers.

244 ah, 247, nothing like a liberal asshole to put the icing on the cake that is this annus horriblis.

"If you're "finally waking up", I think that says a hell of a lot more about you than it does me. Leftist leaning in Hollywood movies is nothing you."
-----lmao. You think being outraged at being fed anti-American crap is not allowed because its been happening for a while? Jeez, what a maroon.

"And calling me a cowardly liberal because I think you're overreacting to a friggin' movie? Jesus, see things in absolutes, much?"
---calling you a cowardly liberal for defending this soul-sucking piece of horshit liberal propaganda.

245 They named the fucking planet "Pandora?" Wow. This sounds more and more like an 8th grade girl's creative writing project.

246

I really don't care about the political message, and yeah, the visuals look pretty cool, and I'm a sci-fi geek.

However, the movie just looks dumber than dirt -- too bad there aren't some wacko peace protestors who do bad things on Earth, too bad there aren't some man eating lions (or Na'vi eating heffalumps or something)  that causes a little side conflict that might make the characters and the story a bit more multi-dimensional.  I wouldn't be minding the political message (I kinda liked Wall-e and Finding Nemo, because I could take something other than the political message from the storyline) -- but heavy handed, one trick political message wrapped up in stupid, overdone cliche dreck for a storyline is just too much.  The CGI won't save this one I think.  I'll rent it from Redbox and save some money.

247 251 They named the fucking planet "Pandora?" Wow. This sounds more and more like an 8th grade girl's creative writing project. ---------- It gets better. The stuff they want to steal from the blue furries is called "Unobtainium".

248 'pandora'- in reference to 'pandora's box'--when it opens, anything can happen, good or bad.

hes basically tying it to the iraq war. going into their country was like opening pandora's box, like, once you open it it cant close ....some dumb shit like that. big thinking there from cameron and co. **eye roll**


let me guess....after the mercs are defeated, youre treated to a scene of the blue aliens dancing and witnessing the birth of a new god-tree....am i right?

249 Avatar originally had a Pandoran native named Jer-Jer Bunks, but sadly, time constraints forced him on to the editing floor.

250

Let's not bicker and argue about who killed who!

251

"Blue folks in a green jungle?"

I'd expect a planet with some sort of universal neural net to also have

a team of experienced script writers

script writers with some literary variety in their CV

a "continuity" review team (it was in the budget, right?)

a director (most of who's work consists of re making the work of others)

a director (who does a lot of re-makes, and would have the sense to NOT repeat obvious plot mistakes)

a director (who actually graduated from college)

_something

that fixes the plot to either:

 1.  Prevent the protagonist and followers from living on colloidal silver

 2.  Bill the movie as a comedy

Blue people, here on Earth, are just funny. Silver really does funny things.

252 "It gets better. The stuff they want to steal from the blue furries is called "Unobtainium".
Posted by: B+nachronda"

Jeebus Twice on a pogo stick. These people are fucking children.


str8 outta monongahela, I believe we can all agree that in the 14 years he's planned this crap, Cameron should have started with "story" and worked a bit more on it. 

253 let me guess....after the mercs are defeated, youre treated to a scene of the blue aliens dancing and witnessing the birth of a new god-tree....am i right?


lol come on, im right arent i?

254 lurker, i totally 100% agree. ive read short stories from high school seniors that were very very very imaginative. far better than this junk we're handed.

255 Meesa blue!!!

256 str8 outta monongahela, you're probably 120% correct. But Overract much will never admit it.

257 Actually, lurker, it didn't seem worth arguing anything that I couldn't back up with fact because you've already started calling me a cowardly liberal, and now I guess a flag burner too? I can't wait to see what I graduate to next... I'm hoping for communist. I don't think I proved any of your points, but hell, if you want to read my comments as such, go right ahead. You don't exactly sound like someone who is tolerant of disagreement, since you jump immediately to insults in your responses.

This is the 2nd or 3rd time I've ever gotten involved here in the comments at AoS in 2 years, and I see I really haven't been missing much. It's not quite as bad as the DailyKOS, but man, it really makes our side look bad. And yes, I realize I'm not helping either, since at best I'm fueling the flames. Let's just save ourselves some effort and agree that you think I'm a cowardly liberal douchebag hippie, and I think you make conservatives look bad.

I'm bowing out, which I'm sure will support your theory of my cowardice. All the more power to you.

258

So was The Battle For Terra the second-greatest movie ever made, then? And no one who hasn't seen the movie can contradict me until they shell out $20 to see it on the bigscreen.

“Avatar” is an intelligence test.  If you fell for it, you failed.

259 Fine, one last comment.

No, str8 is not correct, though the end scene does have the protagonist does end up being permanently transferred into his alien body.

Read whatever message into that you want, though I'm pretty sure most of us would do the same if it meant being able to walk again and bang some hot alien blue chick. Especially when the alternative is likely to soon lose the use of your avatar and thus go back to being confined in your crippled body.

260 "Actually, lurker, it didn't seem worth arguing anything that I couldn't back up with fact"
---Yes, concern troll, because that is how you actually argue. With fact. I know your buddies at Daily Kos don't use that.

 "because you've already started calling me a cowardly liberal, and now I guess a flag burner too?"
--any asshole trying to defend this garbage is.

"You don't exactly sound like someone who is tolerant of disagreement, since you jump immediately to insults in your responses."
---I don't tolerate idiots who defend the indefensible, fart-knocker.

"This is the 2nd or 3rd time I've ever gotten involved here in the comments at AoS in 2 years, and I see I really haven't been missing much."
---lets all shed a tear for this liberal pussy crying himself to sleep.

" It's not quite as bad as the DailyKOS, but man, it really makes our side look bad."
---Say it with me: CONCERN TROLL.

"I think you make conservatives look bad."
---because I argue with facts and don't tolerate stupidity. Good argument, douchebadg.

"I'm bowing out,"
---hooray!

" which I'm sure will support your theory of my cowardice."
---it does. Because you have no facts to argue, coward.

Now get bent---hopefully on Pandora.

261

Gee, overreact much? is a concern troll. That's a real surprise.

262

Oh, oh. Jinx, lurker. You owe me an Obama New Coke® now.

263 Overreact much:

"
No, str8 is not correct, though the end scene does have the protagonist does end up being permanently transferred into his alien body.

Read whatever message into that you want, though I'm pretty sure most of us would do the same if it meant being able to walk again and bang some hot alien blue chick. Especially when the alternative is likely to soon lose the use of your avatar and thus go back to being confined in your crippled body."
---lol. And now the lefty betrays himself. a tail-owning fucking monster alien is now a "hot blue chick." Way to let politcis skew your rationality, beast-fucker.

Asshole, if you're seriously going to ignore the symbolism of the permanent transfer from the white, technological, civilized society into the tribal blue people, you're more politically blind than fucking Michael Moore.

264 Still can't figure out why Avatar wasn't released as a double-feature with the Hanna Montana flick. Worries of a coolness overload?

265 264 So was The Battle For Terra the second-greatest movie ever made, then? -------- My problem with The Battle for Terra was that the 3D *in the preview* sucked (IIRC, I saw the preview for that when I watched Monsters vs Aliens in 3D). Since they couldn't hold the 3D together for the preview, I had no interest in seeing the movie.

266

One reasonably serious question does come to mind, though:

By any chance, are all the mercenaries, their command structure, and possibly the entire cast of "bad guys", only one ethnicity?

267 By the way, about all those times I told you “Oh, that CG looks so real…I couldn’t even tell” – I faked it. It looks like shit, and doesn’t fool anyone. About time someone told you to your face.

268 So the movie is gorgeous to look at, lacks content, and is superficially politically correct. In other words, James Camerion has made the gayest war movie since Away All Boats. As for CGI, meh. If I want CGI for itself I'll look at Poser porn on the web. In a movie, I want something to take away from it for forty bucks (hey, who goes to a movie alone and doesn't buy snacks?). And does this mean I have to denounce Gabe as a Brooksite or a Frumist?

269 As a lifelong member of the GOP and frequent reader at Ace's, I have to say that threads like this are what have driven me from the Party. John McCain reached out to the CGI community, but now we are forced out through some purity test. I guess I'll be voting for Obama in 2012. Thanks, guys.

270
261 Meesa blue!!!

He changed his name to Mesa in Texas.

271 "There's almost as much sand in manginas here as over at Arfcom.  For fuck's sake, it's a movie."

* * * * *

Yeah, and so were Triumph des Willens and Jud Süß and The Battleship Potemkin.

272 Well, shit, now I'll get all the posts about "You said you were done but here you are still posting!", but I'm bored so what the hell.

First, not that it will change your opinion of what you really believe I am, but I'm a conservative, not a liberal. I was just saying I agree that lurker can go on thinking I'm a liberal, as I'm not likely to change his mind.

Secondly, no, all of the military in the movie were not of one ethnicity. Though the guy in charge is white, which I'm sure is all the "proof" that you'll feel you need to back up the theory you seem to be working on.

273 I really think this is why conservatives always lose the culture wars. We are just not disciplined enough. If a conservative movie came out that trashed leftist values, do you think any libs would go see it? Would they say, "Well, I disagreed with everything the movie stood for, but the CGI was cool"? No way. They would stay home, and the movie would bomb. But conservatives are so accustomed to being kicked and spit upon, we go to movies that we know will insult us to our face. We help make those movies into commercial hits. Then we wonder why Hollywood keeps making them. In short, we lack the discipline to stay home and bleed the filmmakers dry. The other side does not lack that discipline. And that is why we lose and they win.

274 James Cameron has come out and said this movie is an attack on the US's war on terrorisim, war in Iraq, overall foreign policy, environmental stance, etc.

He has the luxury to feel that way in his huge Malibu mansion, fleet of expensive cars, private jet, and the money for private security.

Wonder how he'd feel if those terrorists he so loves attacked the Golden Globes or Oscars, or a movie set, or a movie theater?

Is Cameron ready to sell all his luxuries and live in a little hut with hemp furniture? I don't think so.

275

If you haven't noticed that America is probably over as the great experiment in human freedom maybe you cannot understand this happened by a slow drip of propaganda over 50 years or so.  We now have a President that sat in a church that damned America....he sat there for 20 years.  People voted for him because they think such things are harmless, you know like a simple movie with a leftist message is harmless. 

Or your kids text books, or every sitcom that portrays white men as testosterone-poisoned dufuses, or gay rights shoved down our throats, or killing babies cause you have named them fetuses.  Or welfare from cradle to grave, or trying to run a country on methane farts and windmills.  Conservatives are not "worried," that they will be overcome by the "message."  We are conservatives because we have NEVER been overwhelmed by the message, nor have we ever accepted the message.  The reality is that most people are sheep, liberal elites know this and prey upon those sheep, who have the numbers to destroy this nation, and us with them...get it?

* * * * *

Quoted for truth.

276

Well, it seems that my theory that "James Cameron cast the bad guys as one ethnicity because he thought it would add credibility to his flick" crashes and burns.

Just out of curiosity, what were the percentages? Broken down, naturally, along major characters, minor characters, characters that have only a few lines, characters that have only one line, characters that are seen more than once, but do not speak, and the rest.

My next theory awaits.

Perhaps this James Cameron is more clever than he appears.

277 "Literally" is now a meme.

I mean that, literally!

278 actually, wiping out indigenous peoples and taking their shit is what this country is all about. It's what HISTORY is all about. You're a fucking hypocrite as you sit there in your house in a state that was probably seized from Indians, who were then systematically wiped out, you enjoy an entire society and civilization based on taking away and wiping out. There wouldn't BE any fucking movie if we didn't do those things. Every civilization in HISTORY has done these things. So get the fuck over your self-righteous bullshit. It's only recently we've become "enlightened" about this crap, but nothing has changed.

Right now the Dems are taking away and giving to with both hands. And they attempt to wipe out at the same time. Grow a pair, you fucking pussies. Wiping out and taking away is good, if you're the aggressor. If you're not, then get mean. It's how humankind got where it is today, taking away and wiping out. Let's do it to them before they do it to us, sitting around singing Kumbaya and redressing all the wrongs of history is not going to get you jack shit but the approval of Hollywood pussies.

279 So what's the lefty message in the movie, and why is it a message that the right is against?

280

Doesn't propoganda work best when it is subtle and not in your face?

281 Arbalest,

Hard to say. The main villian you see is the military leader, who as I said is indeed white. You've got Michelle Rodriguez as a pilot who joins the good guys, so I guess that further supports the idea that "white is bad", because you've not got the Latina who defects to the natives side.

But then again, the protagonist is also white, and also defects.

That's about it as far as the "major" military characters go (those that have any real speaking parts, anyway), but when you get to all off the nameless grunts, you've got a mix of just about everything, from what I remember. I couldn't give you percentages there though.

But as far as the main military, you've got 66% white. One was good, one was bad.

Draw what conclusions you will.

282 I'm going to wait to see it until HOW I see it is less remunerative to its makers. I'm more sensitive of late to propaganda in media than I once was. And although there's a disagreement here over HOW heavy the 'ganda is, the consensus -- even Gabriel's view, really -- is that it's enough for me to reduce how much money I'm willing to "cause to flow to" the makers, in order to see it. To those who say, "Well, you haven't seen it, so shut up": That is at once fair and unfair. It's unfair because seeing it, at the moment, means spending at least $15. You can't exactly get that money back if, having thus seen it, you find it offensive, etc., just as many suspect they will.

283

overreact much?:    "Michelle Rodriguez as a pilot"

Ok, I'll assume Michelle is Latina, but the character she plays; are there any actions/lines/indications in the plot or lines that clearly identify her as Latina? 

The fact that her character joins the good guys is a generic plot device that can be applied to any character (script/plot continuity/believability/director's political message permitting).

284 AlexD,

So the basic problem, then, appears to be that the Left is saying "the bad guys in this movie are analogous to the Right", and given that the bad guys in the movie are clearly bad, it means that the movie is saying that the Right is bad?

In essence, it's not the movie itself that's the problem, but what we're being told outside of the movie itself, ABOUT the movie, that is the problem?

If that's it, then I can see that point of view. I still think a better reaction to it is to say "Your theory that the Right endorses the kind of behavior that the corporation takes in this movie is wrong" is a better approach than "The message in your movie is garbage!".

But what I'm trying to say is that the movie, by itself, viewed without the lens of "You're supposed to think of the bad guys in this film as the right", really doesn't have a message worth getting upset over. And it doesn't plant the idea that the Right is evil into your brain unless you go into the movie already thinking that the bad guys = the Right.

285 Arbalest,

The movie never mentions anyone's nationality, ever, as far as I recall. They're pretty much just bundled all together as "the human race".

Come to think of it, I don't think religion ever comes up anywhere in the movie, either.

286 The analogies people are trying to draw just completely fall apart if they actually watch the movie. I don't remember Blackwater razing villages to clear space for oil refineries, but maybe I missed that news story.

* * * * *

This is literally one of the stupidest things I've ever read.

No, Blackwater doesn't really raze villages to clear space for oil refineries. If they did shit like that, they'd be evil. And they aren't evil.

But the leftists believe that Blackwater is evil, and the left-wing propagandists in Hollywood want their audiences to believe that Blackwater is evil. So they create an obvious Blackwater-type group of mercenaries in a blockbuster movie that millions of drones will rush out to see, and then they portray them as pretty much pure evil. And then a million know-nothing moviegoers will leave the theater with a slightly altered perspective on the "war on terror." (Do you wanna guess which way it will have been altered?)

Do you think the sheeple out there have a fucking clue what Blackwater really is, or what Blackwater really does? Of course not. It's just a name they've heard mentioned in the media (always with negative connotations). Just like, oh, say, Halliburton.

So they don't know the FACTS, because they are willfully ignorant, but they will get the intended political messages from this purely FICTIONAL movie. Hell, some of them will leave the theater actually (literally!) believing that Blackwater sought to commit genocide against the Iraqis in order to steal their oil.

287 So let's recap, shall we?
a) plot is weak
b) acting is ... not really memorable, really
c) CGIs are said to be very intense

Somebody please name 1 semi-strong reason why I am to shell out $10 and 3 hours to see this?
Is it better than Obaba's Copenhagen Speech (the second Copenhagen Speech, I mean)??

288 And M*A*S*H the TV series was just about a hospital in the early 1950s.

289 LOL,

I see your point. And I agree in the context of the outside comments about the movie... if the "ignorant masses" are TOLD that it's an allegory to the Iraq War, then maybe they'll see it as one. But honestly, such people are probably already reading lefty blogs and have already had their mind made up.

Without that outside influence telling you the allegory is before you go into the movie, I really don't think the movie makes you see that on its own. The plot of the movie is just way too far removed from the situation in Iraq for the so-called ignorant masses to make that connection on their own.

Or rather, it's no worse than every other tv/movie stereotype you see. The evil corporation and the ruthless mercenary organization are the same as the corrupt cop, the latino gang member, the black junkie, or whatever. Hell, the last season of 24 had a corrupt mercenary group too. Though maybe you guys had the same complaint about that... I don't know, as I said earlier I don't read the comments much.

Anyway, I sort of see where you're coming from now, but I really think it's making a mountain out of a molehill. When we get this picky about it, I think it would be impossible to create a movie that isn't considered propaganda for one side or the other.

290 "the bad guys in the movie don't resemble the right at all."

* * * * *

You're a little slow, I see. I'll try to explain this to you as best I can.

Are conservatives really evil? No. Are corporations evil? No. Is capitalism? No. Is the US military? No.

But do leftists believe that conservatives/corporations/capitalism/the US military are evil? Yes.

Do leftist propagandists seek to sway people into joining their camp by portraying conservatives et al. as evil? Yes. (Just turn on MSNBC, FFS.)

So. If the leftist propagandists in Hollywood (like James Cameron, who basically admitted that this film is left-wing propaganda) want to persuade people into believing that conservatives et al. are evil, but conservatives et al. really AREN'T evil, then how can they do this?

Well, they certainly can't achieve this by portraying conservatives et al. ACCURATELY. Because, you know, an accurate portrayal of conservatives et al. would be balanced and wouldn't have the desired effect of getting people to hate them and think of them as evil.

Hmmm...so what other possible alternative is there? Oh, wait. I know! They'll portray conservatives et al. INACCURATELY. Like in a completely, wildly distorted manner. So that people will get the impression that they really (literally!) are evil, even though that's not a factually accurate characterization.

Capisce?

291 "Unlike our trees, theirs are alive."

* * * * *

I almost fell out of my fucking chair. Holy shit, this guy has one chromosome too many.

292 #199

That just shows that Elhaym there is a dumbass.

293 i bet theres a part where the girl teaches the avatar guy how to fly on one of them pteradactyls.....bet he's all goofy on it at first, falling around the thing...but of course she shows him how to properly handle it....and im sure theres a huge fight scene in the skies right? lolol goddamn i bet theres some cheesy shit in that movie lol and you suckers paid to see this crap hahahaha

please dont say theres a part where they get all mushy and start becoming one with nature while theyre sitting there half naked lol cause i bet there is. come on, someone talk about the dumb shit in the movie lol chief's daughter hahaha

294

overreact much?:

It seems that you're stumbling across the point (mine and others, as previously posted), but in slow motion.

"The movie never mentions anyone's nationality, ever, as far as I recall. They're pretty much just bundled all together as "the human race".

Come to think of it, I don't think religion ever comes up anywhere in the movie, either."

Of course not. But 66% 100% of the "bad guys" that you can recall are just bundled all together as "the human race" white.

Could someone as diverse as James Cameron allow this to happen simply by accident?

@

Let's look at your post #293 to AlexD

"So the basic problem, then, appears to be that the Left is saying "the bad guys in this movie are analogous to the Right", and given that the bad guys in the movie are clearly bad, it means that the movie is saying that the Right is bad?"

"Smurfatar" is badly written and badly-camouflaged propaganda. Read the first 50 or 100 comments on this thread for arguments demonstrating this.

@

"... the movie, by itself, viewed without the lens of ..."

Let's view the movie through the lens of "entertainment". The problem is that the plot is so simple (yet strident) that the stink of its propaganda overwhelms sufficiently-educated viewers. Check post 40 by AmishDude; he's right.

The neural net of the planet, with everything connected (and given the clear differences in evolutionary development of the life forms, who runs the net?); what modern human institution does this remind you (or anyone else of? How about the failed institution of Socialism, with its central planning, "each according to his needs", etc.?

The mercenaries, 'bundled all together as "the human race"'; they're white capitalists / colonialists / invaders, and no one else, correct? Recorded human history (certainly up to ~1700AD) is primarily that of conquest. Europeans are not the only colonialists / conquerers in history, and certainly not the first. Read about the others, then ask yourself "why wasn't James Cameron sufficiently original to have some other human group (ethnicity / culture / values) play the mercenaries / bad guys in his movie?".

@

Hollywood, Liberals, The Left, simply hate America, and their simplistic, uneducated, pseudo-intellectual manifesto requires it to be destroyed. No matter that the reality of life (for the past 60 or so years) shows that just about everyone in the world envies us to some degree, and craves our wealth, freedom and standard of living.

But The Left cannot accept this, as it proves that their theories are failures, so they produce propaganda, to educate entertain fool as many people as they can: "Smurfatar".

295 ""There's almost as much sand in manginas here as over at Arfcom. For fuck's sake, it's a movie." * * * * * Yeah, and so were Triumph des Willens and Jud Süß and The Battleship Potemkin. Posted by: LOL at December 20, 2009 02:15 PM (ADbI4)" Lol, LOL, you've lost it.

296

Ok, I shouldn't have to return, but apparently I do.

I am a forgiving moviegoer, and lefty politics in movies generally don't bother me. They come with the territory.

The problem with Avatar is that it is jammed with cliches, and none of them are well-executed.

The plot? "Dances with Wolves" executes its ideas (like them or not) well. Avatar does the same ideas poorly.  Since others have dropped a spoiler about the ending, I'll note that Jake is offered surgery to restore his legs.  He passes on the chance relatively early in the movie, before he knows of another option.  And the decision utterly lacks drama.  Character fail. Plotting fail.

Evil corporations? Tons of movies have them, and Ace recently posted a cogent defense of them.  Avatar does it poorly.  Someone earlier mentioned "Aliens." That movie did an evil corporation well, because Paul Reiser's character was comparatively well-written and well-acted.  Ribisi's character is cardboard, a cipher.

The military/mercs? The senior officer makes the Gunnery Sgt. in Full Metal Jacket seem like frickin' Tolstoy -- that's how cardboard he is.  Last night, Andy Levy joked that the only lefty cliche missing was him being secretly gay, to which I replied that will probably be in the Director's Cut -- because that's the level of cliches jammed into this movie.  OF COURSE these former military guys have NO FRICKIN' INTEREST IN OR KNOWLEDGE OF counter-insurgency.  Because that might have made the movie interesting, and thus dramatic.

I could go on, point-by-point, scene-by-scene on this trainwreck of a screenplay, which makes the script for Titanic seem like Shakespeare.  Like the recent review of The Phantom Menace, I could go through every character to point out that there really aren't any.  I would compare them to cartoons, except anyone can tell you much more about the character of Daffy Duck than anyone in Avatar.  The point is that Avatar sucks for reasons far beyond its politics.  The politics are annoying, but doubly so for being as ham-fisted as every other thing in the movie.  Great 3-D effects do not change how utterly two-dimensional every other part of this movie is.

297 LOL,

I understand what you're saying. I just disagree with the movie's ability to deliver the sort of mind-influencing you think it is doing.

If you go into the movie equating evil corporations with conservatism, then sure, the movie reads as propaganda for the left. But if you already think evil corporations = conservatism, the battle for that particular mind is already lost. I don't think this movie will create that association for someone who doesn't already have it. At least not anymore than every other TV show or movie somehow reinforces some negative stereotype every time there's a villain. Black villian? Black people are thugs! White villian? Those damn greedy whites, stepping on people for money! Latino villian? Everyone knows they're all in gangs anyway! This movie is more of the same in that regard... it's not anything special. James Cameron hasn't mastered a new form of propaganda that puts all previous attempts to shame. In terms of the type of propaganda you describe, this movie is nothing new, and actually probably does a worse job of it than most movies. This isn't anywhere near the level of that Tommy Lee Jones movie or that John Cusack movie (I forget the names) about people who lost loved ones in Iraq and try to paint the picture that we never should have been there.

Which I guess brings me back to my first post... I think people are overreacting to the amount of "propaganda" in this movie. I went into it really expecting to be put off by such propaganda and I came out without feeling insulted. If it helps put it in perspective, I DID feel insulted coming out of Shooter (the really bad Mark Wahlberg film where he's framed by yet another evil corporation for killing the president, and at the end of the movie gets revenge on the people behind it by gunning them down while they're pretty much helpless). In terms of spreading some Leftist message, this movie is weak.

I have to wonder if those of you I'm arguing with are this passionate about almost every other movie out there that has a corporation as the villain. If so, I'm clearly in a losing argument with you here, since my point isn't only that this movie isn't any worse than those, but also that those movies really aren't that bad.

Maybe I'm desensitized to the propaganda. Or maybe you guys are overreacting.

I guess it's a matter of opinion.

298 AlexD,

Good point, I'd forgotten about that scene. Have you seen the movie? Were there others like that I'm forgetting? I'm willing to come around on this.

It would be nice if we could have a discussion without insults and the implication that I somehow have an agenda or am lying to you, though.

299 "By any chance, are all the mercenaries, their command structure, and possibly the entire cast of "bad guys", only one ethnicity?"

* * * * *

And the same gender?

300 Arbalest,

I don't know, the whole "there's one memorable villian, and he's white, and therefore James Cameron is saying white people are greedy and evil" seems like a stretch to me. It just feels like the equivalent of complaining about negative stereotypes when the mob boss in a film is Italian.

And again, the hero was white, too. Doesn't that just say, then, that some people are good, and some are bad?

And I'll agree, I've been slow getting to your guys' point. Most of the problems with it seem to be present in pretty much any Hollywood movie with a corporation as the villian, so I don't see why this one is getting all the extra attention. CGI aside, this movie just doesn't do much that hasn't been before, repeatedly, and often. Getting bent of shape about this movie would require me to get bent out of shape about most movies... which just seems kind of pointless. So for people railing on it because it's a continuation of the Hollywood trend, fine, I'm with you. But for people who think this movie represents some new and extra-insidious Leftist propaganda... I'm just not seeing it. Same old, same old.

LOL,

One of the pilots was female (who went to the good side). I know during a briefing room scene there were some female grunts (on the bad side) shown, but during the actual fighting scenes it may have been all male. Though I think it's fairly typical in movies to not show female soldiers getting ripped apart.

Still, even had there been none, I don't think it would say much. It's a rare movie that has female soldiers on the battlefield, unless that's somehow the POINT of the movie.

301

198 - Elhaym

Thanks for the answer! I just don't know how you can eat something you can mind-meld with. Or why you wouldn't use the 'connection' to better hunt your prey. Things like that, internally inconsistant. Unless you use the old "ancient civilization" trick to explain it all away. Say, isn't that the same as 'intelligent design'?? Lmoa!

214 Gabriel Malor

What annoyed me (alot!) about yourt 'review' was phrases like:

"gigantic chips on their shoulders" - why even mention this? What has that got to do with the movie? It has a lot to do with your review though.

"a single disapproving reference" - you fail to understand the purpose & effectiveness of brainwashing propoganda. That's all it takes to influence the weak-minded. Also, you say 'single' then give 3 examples...

"the last time American soldiers went up against lily-white natives (morally white, I mean) was exactly never" - I addressed this above. 7^th Cavalry ring a bell? I'm NOT saying it's wrong to draw this paralelle (which is what I think you're trying to say??). I AM saying you look awful stupid saying something so... stupid! Your arguement is thus completely invalid in this regard.

"individuals carrying some weird guilt" - I thought it was a movie review, not a psychoanalysis session.

"some oversensitive folks are claiming" - judgemental much?

"I don't actually care what Leftists think" - you should though, they're ruining your country, eh? Welcome to the club.

 

302 I gotta take off, so I just want to say thanks to Arbalest in for particular for having a real discussion with me like a normal person, even though he clearly was frustrated with the fact that I didn't seem to be getting him.

Half-credit goes to AlexD, for injecting some substance along with his insults. I can see why he thinks I'm full of shit given the scene I'd forgotten about.

Lurker gets an F, for a complete lack of creativity as well as lack of any substance. Seriously, step up your game.

303

I have a question about Avatar's content:

Are any of the members of the evil mercinary/corporation coloured? Are coloured folks (white, black & etc) portrayed in proportion to 'world population' or the poulation of the USA? Or are they all white?

This (I think) would go a long way to backing/disproving the evil = USA arguement, eh?

304 If you go into the movie equating evil corporations with conservatism, then sure, the movie reads as propaganda for the left. But if you already think evil corporations = conservatism, the battle for that particular mind is already lost.

* * * * *

Nononono.

Leftist believe corporations are inherently evil, because they are institutions of capitalism, and capitalism is inherently evil. In the leftist world, there are no corporations that AREN'T evil.

So "evil corporations" is redundant, because "corporations" are inherently evil. Leftists make movies about "evil corporations" constantly. But their point isn't that "evil corporations" are bad (who could possibly disagree with that?); their message is that ALL corporations are evil.

Conservatives, being supportive of capitalism, disagree that all corporations are evil. So conservatives get placed in the (uncomfortable and unpopular) position of defending corporations in general. So thanks to the endless, nonstop propaganda in movies that portrays corporations as "all evil, all the time," conservatives are "defending evil" in the minds of the drones.

And if you defend evil, then you probably are evil, too. So the "conservatives are evil" meme is spread subtly in this way.


* * * * *

James Cameron hasn't mastered a new form of propaganda that puts all previous attempts to shame.

* * * * *

No, I'm sure it's just the same old left-wing drivel that we've seen a thousand times before. Only this time, the propaganda is embedded in a "blockbuster," so about a billion people are going to see it.

305

overreact much?:

Apologies for replying late. The grocery store called. Beer supply was ok, but I was low on burritos.

One point that seems to be assumed or ignored by everyone is "SmurfatarÂ’s" rating. From Yahoo! Movies:

"PG-13 for intense epic battle sequences and warfare, sensuality, language and some smoking."

Smoking? The horror, the horror . . .

Read the synopsis of the movie. Now compare to the previously posted comments on this thread.

The problem is that "Smurfatar" is being presented as (again from Yahoo! Movies):

"Action/Adventure and Science Fiction/Fantasy"

ItÂ’s aimed at general audiences, even children, yet it is non-stop, badly-cliched propaganda.

If the title were something like "Western Colonialist Lackeys Exploit Non-Aggressive Ecotopic Vegan Tribal Collective at the Far Edge of the Galaxy" (remember, Pandora is distant from Earth, and life there is interconnected by a net), and were rated "R" (so kids wouldnÂ’t think this is another "Pocahontas"), then I, for one, wouldnÂ’t care.

But "Smurfatar" isnÂ’t labeled or presented as such. "SmurfatarÂ’s" deceptiveness is a problem; or alternatively, why is deception needed?

306

I wonder how the film industry would react to a movie which had the hero try to integrate himself with the "noble savages," only to realize that yes, the natives are a bunch of jerks and wiping them out would be doing the world a kindness?

307 Cameron himself has said the film is a "PSA for Global Warming."  So it's got that going for it.
I don't mind a fantasy as long as it makes it possible for me to suspend my disbelief.  But once I heard about the unobtanium, I had problems. There is not and cannot be any unknown element that is stable.  So I choked on that.
Second, a society with the capability of interstellar travel has an energy crisis?  WTF? 
Finally, if I give them the unobtaium and near lightspeed travel, even if unobtanium can be converted at 100% efficiency like antimatter, you'd have to burn up practically all of it just hauling it back to Earth.
I just gagged on that.  Even Aliens was more scientifically consistent.

308 Avatar is as tasty and nutritious as a long-missing Ring Ding that you just found after moving the couch.

309

I think Avatar II would be pretty good, as a love triangle:

After both Green Lantern Mogo and Ego the Living Planet fall madly in love with our heroine Pandora, hijinks ensue.  Marvel and D.C. cameos abound as the villain (Galactus) seeks to "eat" Pandora, IYKWIMAITYD.  Galactus slurps up most of Pandora's surface life before the rival suitors team up to defeat him, with Ego perishing in the battle. 

Mogo and Pandora then go on their honeymoon, where the last remaining Pandoran natives are crushed between the heaving celestial bodies.

I would pay to see that, politics be damned. 

310 A palate cleanser after Smurfatar:
tinyurl.com/2wyc9n

311 "And again, the hero was white, too. Doesn't that just say, then, that some people are good, and some are bad?"

No, this says that white people who stay white are bad; white people who identify with the Red Blue Man are good.

312 Loved it.

I'll be in my mushroom if you need me.



_{...now where did I put that smurphberry lotion...}

313

I wonder if unobtanium is used to fight "climate instability"? (Seeing as the movie didn't bother telling vieweres what it was so useful for.)

314 They named the fucking planet "Pandora?" Wow. This sounds more and more like an 8th grade girl's creative writing project. ---------- It gets better. The stuff they want to steal from the blue furries is called "Unobtainium". So, the mercs want to get at Pandora's unobtainable box? Sounds like smurf-porn to me.

315 Finally, if I give them the unobtaium and near lightspeed travel, even if unobtanium can be converted at 100% efficiency like antimatter, you'd have to burn up practically all of it just hauling it back to Earth. The element "unobtainium" was used in "The Core"...remember that stink-hole of a movie?

316

Is the element

"un obtain ium"

or

"u nob tainium"

It makes a difference.

 

317 The movie would have been good if James Carpenter would have done it instead of James Cameron and the Navi's were vampires.

318

All my life, I worked for Mars Intelligence, doing Cohaagen's dirty work. But then I met someone, a woman. She taught me a few things, like I was playing for the wrong team. All I can do now is make up for it. You see...

 

 

319 " If you go into the movie equating evil corporations with conservatism, then sure, the movie reads as propaganda for the left. But if you already think evil corporations = conservatism, the battle for that particular mind is already lost."

---The problem is that movies almost always depict corporations=evil. Its a trope. Anyone going in has that knee jerk reaction because they've been taught to.

In Elizabethan England, for example, there were many "stock" characters: braggart soldier, or shrewish housewife. These characters, when an audience saw them, invoked a reaction before they uttered a line.

The "evil money grubbing Jew" was another. If you were a Jew seeing a play and Jew came on stage, you had the same reaction, even if you knew that Jews were not such persons, because the Jew-character was stock. But the average non-Jew---who did not come into contact wiht Jews a lot----felt that same reaction, and, not knowing any better, would apply it to Jews all around. And that knee-jerk reaction created a lot of anti-semitism.

Most people don't have interactions with "corporations" as such. they buy things from them, sure, but as consumers; they treat them as businesses. Most people don't think about corporations as specific entities if not in business or stock trading.

That's where the danger comes in here. The knee jerk reaction to corporation hollywood invokes means that later, when talking about "more restrictions on corporations" or "higher corporate taxes", average people will think hmmm, evil corporations. They may not know why, but they will.

Fuck Cameron, Hollywood,and Overreact Much, that faggy concern troll.

320 A visually stunning movie fatally crippled with a mind-numbing plot. NOT worth the price of a ticket. Avoid this time vampire like the plague. Dances with Wolves meets Last Samurai and spawns Ferngully: The Arrival of Wall-E.

321 overract is a fucking concern troll to the Nth degree. Probably a cast off from, either Kos or Chuckie J.

322 Overreact putz:

"I gotta take off, so I just want to say thanks to Arbalest in for particular for having a real discussion with me like a normal person, even though he clearly was frustrated with the fact that I didn't seem to be getting him.

Half-credit goes to AlexD, for injecting some substance along with his insults. I can see why he thinks I'm full of shit given the scene I'd forgotten about.

Lurker gets an F, for a complete lack of creativity as well as lack of any substance. Seriously, step up your game."

---now the little liberal fuckhead thinks he can grade us, because liberals decide who is worthy of passing or failing.

Hey asshole,Alec Baldwin called, he needs his daily rimming. He don't care if its snowing.

323 Don't worry about the "premium double" price for tickets for the 3D version of Avatar.  Just buy a ticket for a regular movie and mug a kid for the 3D glasses on the way in to the Avatar screening theater. The kid can go back to the service desk and get a replacement pair of glasses. No harm, no foul!

324 Oh, sorry, I forgot...it was a really boring movie. Sheesh, waiting 3 hours for something to happen that I hadn't already seen in "Dancing With Wolves." Yipes!

325

326 Just hate that leftist propagandistic drivel poisoning our culture. This sounds as bad as that awful Schindler's List or Saving Private Ryan. Didn't you just hate that Anne Frank crap? Well, we know what to do ...

327 "And again, the hero was white, too. Doesn't that just say, then, that some people are good, and some are bad?"

No, this says that white people who stay white are bad; white people who identify with the Red Blue Man are good.

* * * * *

QFT.

328 "That's where the danger comes in here. The knee jerk reaction to corporations Hollywood invokes means that later, when talking about "more restrictions on corporations" or "higher corporate taxes", average people will think hmmm, evil corporations. They may not know why, but they will."

* * * * *

Again, QFT.

329

I guess it's a sign of my old age (at least mental age...I'm in my upper-half 20s) that I have no desire to see this movie.  Nothing in the trailers sold me, before I even heard about the plot.  It all looked obviously fake (not in the "there's no such thing as big blue creatures" way) but in the obvious-CGI for 90% of the film way. 

If I want to see an action movie, I'll see an action movie. If I want to see a CGI-cartoon, I'll see that.  Just don't mix them together with a crappy plot and pretend it's revolutionary (I'm not knocking those who see it an enjoy it, just my preferences).  If I want CGI-action-crappy-plot, I'll go back to playing COD:MW2 and at least I can interact with something in those 3 hours.

330 I'm really jonesing to see the effects. I think I'll pay for something else and sneak in.

331 I took the kids this afternoon.  Yes, the plot is yawningly predictable...there are no surprises in this movie.  If it wasn't for the amazing CGI effects, it would have been a straight to the $1.99 DVD bin at K-mart release.  The graphics made this movie.  A year from now, people won't remember who starred in it...but they'll remember how it looked.

332 FWIW, the movie's approximate $78M opening weekend box office is widely regarded as a disappointment. It won't even crack the all-time top TWENTY -- and it cost more than all of those did (http://boxofficemojo.com/alltime/weekends/).

333

Gawd, I must be channeling Gabe. Uh, in a manly way. Oh gawd, that's probably not going to come out right either.

I just walked out of an Imax row 6 center, discussed this with my wife for 45 minutes (the drive home), and chugged through a few dozen stupid comments.

Regardless. First. IF you're a sci-fi person - and sci-fi has been my genre since the early 1960's: there's nothing major OR minor prior to oh, about 1980 I probably haven't read, and in some cases many, many times - go see it. Avatar is just good sci-fi. No, really its actual good sci-fi as sci-fi. Avatar is conceptually good traditional hard sci-fi ...and you sci-fi geeks all know what that statement means.

And the "Dances with Wolves/Smurfs" meme of critics? Well, so what: in a very real sense, that's the backstory here. Sure, its the onscreen focus, and the way a film-maker cum story-teller is telling the story, so fracking "normal" people will attend to it ...but the real story is ...Pandora is actually sentient.

And not in the Gaiai bullshit/Druids crap/EarthMother stupid hippie way (one contention: the throw-away line about we've [earth] "killed our 'mother'" ...that was pure stupid right there ...but it STILL doesn't take away from my assertion) ...no, Cameron's positing an actual sentient planet. And doing/did a pretty decent job of it at that.

(And it's neither anti-American, nor leftist, nor anti-conservative. Jeezus people, how about you watch the movie with a little bit of wonder. Sometimes you just have to give it a rest. Everything ain't about the politics. And if you haven't even seen it, STFU about it: you're blowing it out your ass.) 

...if you're not a sci-fi geek, spare me your fucking flames: I ain't talking to you, and you're going to miss the point I'm making anyways. But for you hard sci-fi types ...really, go see it.

I don't know if Cameron's got a hit here ...but I do know that it's one of the better - and maybe the best - pure hard sci-fi movies around. Ever.

Better than Blade Runner.

...just thought you'd like to know.

(I'll critique this thoroughly on my blog - yeah, I have a pathetic excuse for one - where I will "prove" my points ...and try and post it as a comment in some DPUD thread. In the meantime, I thought I'd give Gabe' some support: he's right ...it's an ejoyable movie.)

334 Better than Blade Runner? If all your other points were a bullseye, this cancelled them out.

335

...uh, you mean Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep? By the unique in-so-many-ways Phillip K. Dick. Gee, I wonder why I'd list Blade Runner. Puzzling, that.

336

davis,br put your bloggy addy in your name's e-mail space, you MORON!

lolz!

I love PK Dick, read almost all his novels (including non-sci-fi), ALL his short stories and seen all the movies (Even Barjo! Which I thought was terrific!)

Bladerunner was terrific, without the 'happy ending' eh?

But I seriously doubt this film will be that good. It may be fun, I'm glad you liked it, but I won't spend money to see it, based on politics. Just like I wouldn't pay to see Inchon because it was made by Moonies.

337

I mean URL space... (moron me!)

So, you like PK Dick's writing too?

338 It has one serious plot hole (seriously, who has the high ground? hello McFly, they call the humans “the Sky People” for Pete’s sake).

I still think that we should take off and nuke the entire site from orbit.

It's the only way to be sure.

Plus, it's a lot of fun

339 I thought I'd give Gabe' some support: he's right ...it's an ejoyable movie.

Uh, he said the plot and characters are dull.

I.e. the only saving grace was shit blowing up and eye candy.

I guess that's "hard" sci-fi.

340

Never commented before, but... quick observation.

Jake meets the natives, sees the virtue of their ways, and realizes they're being oppressed.  He decides the only way to achieve justice is to switch sides and kill his former comrades.

Doesn't this basically make the hero of the movie Major Hasan?

341 Doesn't this basically make the hero of the movie Major Hasan?

No, apparently the stupid fucking story is saved by being hard sci-fi.

342 So does the girl alien have pandora's box? So to speak.

I don't know if Cameron's got a hit here ...but I do know that it's one of the better - and maybe the best - pure hard sci-fi movies around. Ever.

Better than Blade Runner.

...just thought you'd like to know

Dude. Do you sell or just use?

343 #343

It is not, imo, hard sci fi, otherwise Pandora would be tidally locked to the gas giant it orbits, floating mountains would have warranted more of an explanation than "flux zones", and unobtainium would have been explained, if it even needed to exist. 

344

"u nob tainium"

I think it's used to power concern troll vibrators... to infinity and beyond!

Oh gawd, that's probably not going to come out right either.

That phrasing doesn't help your case, davis. ;^)

Nor does pretending that critics here are shitting on it because we/they think sci-fi's a shitty genre.

And as far as 'give it a rest' goes, so we should ignore the glib anti-Bush, anti-GWOT, anti-Republican, anti-Christian, anti-Israeli etc. asides that pop up in all of Hollywood's filem and TV shit. So we might as well go with the flow on blowing Obama, then, too, or someone might call us 'uptight'.

345 "Everything ain't about the politics"

---

James Cameron apparently disagrees.

346 Reminds me of when libtards flipped out over The Passion of the Christ.

347 "Cameron's positing an actual sentient planet." Big fucking deal. Hard sci-fi, my ass. When they make a Ring World flick, then we can talk hard sci-fi.

348

So, since the tree huggers won, does that mean the human race ended up dying?

Whups, I guess the fact that the humans needed this mineral to survive but they didn't get it was just sorta overlooked at the end, huh?

Either way, I read the movie spoiler, and don't read this if you don't want to know why the Super Smurfs won:

It's because the avatar prayed to a tree and the tree answered his prayer.

That's right.

Leftist or not, no amount of CGI, explosions, or alien lovin' could save this movie from a plot point this dumb.

Foliage ex machina, "Green from the machine..."

349 Seeing that the last post was a while ago, I thought I'd throw a bit more unobtanium on the fire.

Roughly 24 hours ago (post 60), I had a comment on this post about all these things I encounter that are total worthless crap -- movies, TV, newspapers....and lamented that Gabe's message was that he just came back from some half-billion-dollar example of malignant-PC-narcissism and said, "eh, it's not too bad."

I guess the part I should have added was "and I'm supposed to be a sap and pay for it....even if it's only so that I can nod sagely and go, 'yep, that's crap'."

Then Gabe comes back with:
"Hysterical he-bitches don't want to be preached at in theaters. Got it. 
Other hysterical he-bitches are so oversensitive they can't just sit down and watch shit blow up without "digging deeper to find the true moral of the story". Got it.
Other hysterical he-bitches think it's a "betrayal" if I want to go to the movies or write that one doesn't totally suck hairy donkey balls.  (I think there may be some overlap with these groups of he-bitches.) Got it."

Going back to the 70-minute takedown of "The Phantom Menace" (referenced in my comment #4 , the "prot-a-gon-ist" of the critique didn't delve too far into why trade federations might be evil -- despite it being a standard anti-NAFTA lefty talking point -- he asked why the hell trade federations would run a blockade. Why they'd attempt to kill negotiators instead of just blowing them off. Why they'd be run by stupid chumps despite being competitive enterprises, et cetera, et cetera, etc....the sort of thing that makes a useless crap-scramble of a movie.

If Cameron's "Titanic" were just a recreation of the ship, I might actually feel like going to see it, but not as a "movie". If Cameron's "Avatar" were just an exposition of the possibilities of CGI, I might consider this an appropriate use of my resources -- after all, I have several of the "Mind's Eye" videos -- but not as a "movie". I might watch the Discover channel to see pretty pictures of waterfalls, tropical fish, or rain forests.....but not as a "movie".

But that the Hollywood establishment is somehow "entitled" to have me pay for a "movie" -- which should have characters, a plot, a story arc, dialogue, production quality....all that stuff -- and instead deliver a piece of eye candy wrapped around a pile of aimless crud......well, I'll stand on that bridge and say, "you shall not pass."

Where are the films like "The Godfather", "Lawrence of Arabia", or even freakin' "The Bad News Bears" or "Blazing Saddles"? Films that KNEW WHAT THEY WERE DOING? How can studios dump $55M into "Ishtar", $42M into "Heaven's Gate", or a half-billion into this thing....when the best thing that could be said about them is, "It entertained me because it's gorgeous, loud, and shit blows up."

The more we -- as a potential paying movie audience -- reward this crap with our hard-earned dollars, the lower the quality of what we actually receive shall go.

It's already gotten to the point where a bunch of amateur drunks, hobo-killers, hunchbacks, would-be poets, and at least one really bright legal-type guy (who goes to the movies to see gorgeous, loud, and blown-up stuff) BS'ing around in a virtual club run by a professional Ewok are more entertaining than any four of the so-called "media giants" put together.

When someone says, "I spent $15 to go see a Hollywood production that completely insulted my intellect, my culture, my country, my values, and my desire to be entertained in some sort of comprehensive way, by flashing pretty images at me for three hours. B+." -- well, I think they're really asking for some pushback.

And if they respond to this pushback by saying that it's a bunch of "hysterical he-bitches", then it looks like they're not really hunting bears anymore.  

350 just saw it.

Will say that it isnt over-the-top Leftist propaganda, but there is a definite strain of Rousseauian oh-look-at-the-noble-savages/civilization-is-barbaric stuff.  The Left will certainly see it as an allegory for big, bad Amerikkka.  Personally, I think it is more like back in the British Empire heyday (e.g. Opium Wars).  Mercantalism and free-market capitalism are two totally different things; unfortunately most people get the two confused or think they are the same.  The "environmentalist" message is laughable to the extreme; we're talking geometrically beyond energy crystals and gaia worship.  So much so that it renders itself meaningless.

It was 10 bucks for me, watching the 3-D version; IMAX 3D would have been 15 if I had made the drive.  3 hrs of 3D messed with my eyes a little.  Visually, it fantastic; the small screen or even the 2D version would not do it justice.  3 hrs felt like a good length for it, though there was some definite holes in the storyline that would have really enriched it. 

[spoilers ahead]  Sigorney Weavers role could have been a bit better; just too hollow and wooden of a character and I know she could do well in that role.  The evil colonel was a laugable, walking cliche; I half expected him to don some soviet boxer shorts and say "I vill blake you".  I really would have liked more than the very brief mention of the main guy's psychological breakdown (he starts to believe that the avatar world is the real world).  The plot holes were big and numerous, but you could at least swing across them if you had Indiana Jones' whip.  How exactly does a "floating mountain" have a waterfall?  And the tree the Navi live in apparently has the same transdimensional engineering of the Tardis.

351 and speaking of british empire... cthulu... um, lawrence of arabia is basically the same movie as this.

352 I wonder when will our own dear Malor pull a Chuck Johnson and switch sides to Puffington Host seeing was an ignoble, unappreciative morons we are. He showed us his precious Lanky Smurfs, and "still, there are those who fail to be impressed".

Would not happen, say you? Stranger things happened for far smaller offenses

353 Don't care about left or right.....it was a great movie.

Mashed the best of all movie themes together.  Indians vs Military, Dinosaurs, Aliens, Machines from the Dock Defense in Matrix, general explosions and fire.....awesome!

354

It's leftie only if you insist on ideological purity in your entertainment, in which case you're likely to go through life generally unamused, which can't make you much fun at cocktail parties.

My <i>sine qua non</i> for this movie was "are they going to show smurf tits", or are they going to cop out and have all those jangly bead neclaces magically obscure their little blue nipples.  Boys, they show smurf tits.  That's enough for an A-.

 

355 Where are the films like "The Godfather", "Lawrence of Arabia", or even freakin' "The Bad News Bears" or "Blazing Saddles"? Films that KNEW WHAT THEY WERE DOING? How can studios dump $55M into "Ishtar", $42M into "Heaven's Gate", or a half-billion into this thing....when the best thing that could be said about them is, "It entertained me because it's gorgeous, loud, and shit blows up."

When someone says, "I spent $15 to go see a Hollywood production that completely insulted my intellect, my culture, my country, my values, and my desire to be entertained in some sort of comprehensive way, by flashing pretty images at me for three hours. B+." -- well, I think they're really asking for some pushback.

Posted by: cthulhu at December 21, 2009 02:03 AM (u+gbs)

Well said. I completely agree with you.

356

I have to disagree also, Gabe. 

I read the warnings about the leftist slant before I saw the film, and to a point I have come to expect it like most other conservatives who are sensitive to such things...but I still I felt like I was being bashed over the head with it.  I didn't think it was subtle, like in Wall-E.  To me, it absolutely felt like a 3-hour lecture, and I didn't appreciate it at all.  I thought it was incredibly insulting to America in general.  The main villain embodies everything that the Left believes about GWB...the more general villain is corporation+military.  Towards the end, the cliched dialogue became almost comical.  And, of course, there's the irony of making millions using top notch technology while preaching about the evils of capitalism and technology.

It didn't totally ruin the movie for me, but it came close.  I was a little angry by the end...but mainly disappointed.  Everything else about the movie was absolutely fantastic...I don't understand why Cameron couldn't put more effort into the writing.  Maybe he said what he wanted to say, but he could've at least found a more creative or original way to do it.  It's a shame to waste such a beautiful vehicle for such a tired, lame story.

357 I find it incredibly amusing that James Cameron makes a statement about big corporations' malfeasance in our world and in the world of Avatar, but then what I do I see on a tv commercial?  That's right, you can get Avatar play-action figures with every Happy Meal at McDonald's and at your local Wal-Mart! 

And Gabe, awesome looking CGI shit blowing up does not compensate for a weak-ass story that's been done before (Battle For Terra).  What would your opinion of this movie be if the $300 million dollar CGI were replaced with non-3D CGI or muppets instead?  The same?  This is how I felt about the Matrix sequels.  Awesome CGI and bullet-time photography does not make the movie one iota better if the story is weaksauce to begin with.  That you suggest we should like it because the SFX makes it look awesome is telling.

358 EC - second that emotion.  Flashy bang bang, doesn't make a movie great or even good. A stew that's all salt - is a pretty shitty stew.

359 "Yeah, only because the Cherokee never fought back."

It doesn't justify the Trail of Tears, but the Cherokee committed a few atrocities along the way as well.

360 How can a movie bite, suck and blow all at the same time?

Gabe, I realize this thread is dead and you'll probably never see this, but you're completely fucked in the head on this one.  With the villain of the piece such a fucking cartoon, the agenda is bigger than any vista they depict in the film.

How big a cartoon is the military commander type?  When the sympathetic human characters are escaping, they jump into a 'helicopter' in the huge hangar and begin to take off.  Captain Crazy whips out a sidearm/grabs a machine gun and begins firing wildass at it...into his own hangar space, to what?  Make it crash?  In his own hangar space, with his personnel and equipment literally packing the place?

The character is a slathering psychotic caricature.  There are all the references others have outlined, and a line about 'When someone lives on land that has something you want, you take it' ("War for Oil" anyone?)

It's pure shit on a cracker, but they sprinkled it with glitter if you're just into the visuals and have no further sense of smell or taste.  Yum.

361

5Cats ...sorry for the delay, but the review is going to take much longer to do justice with than I originally thought. Crap, it's turning into a book concept.

To see where I'm going with this though, I'm going to cross-post my comments from the Hot Air thread. When I get the thing written, my blog is called fairwhether and is a charter one from Pixy's creation of the .mee.nu domain.

Here's what I had to say at the Hot Air thread.

Home Tree was a sentient being in the movie …in essence the merc’s (they weren’t “the” military: as Ragtag has repeatedly stated in his comments, they were recruited mercenaries and washouts from earth’s militaries – mostly failures in other words, and at best adventurists – and were hired by an earth – NOT United States btw – mining consortium as a security detail) and they murdered an ancient self-aware, immensely intelligent Pandoran native (one whom likely provided a symbiotic environment to the Na’vi).

The aliens – who were the Terrans btw – were unable to communicate with that being: the Na’vi could communicate directly, and probably didn’t understand that the aliens – again, us - couldn’t.

The scientists were just barely beginning to be aware that such a thing might even be possible, and the corporate manager rejected it as flaming lunacy when it was presented to him (in the scene which was the one almost everyone seems to be ignoring, which IS the basis for the movieÂ’s astonishing depth).

Pandora itself was sentient. And everything else in the movie is secondary to that.

The Pandorans were the superior beings and culture in the movie: good lord, we’re talking a planetary neural network that in effect is immortal, even for the independent beings like the Na’vi. What the hell would they possibly need with what a dying earth has to offer? – But what are the possibilities that such a world, such a being, could offer us?

Focus, people!

I think its obvious that most of you non sci-fi people are missing the point entirely.

It ainÂ’t always about the fricking politics!

As for CameronÂ’s interview: who gives a frack what he thinks he meant. Artists arenÂ’t necessarily the best self-reviewers of their work anyways.

Â…and heÂ’s created a world thatÂ’s bigger, much bigger, and richer than his vision for it. Because he is a skilled and technically talented movie-maker, heÂ’s created a wonderous playground in his creation of Pandora that has implications for hard sci-fi film-making that is a milestone of the imagination.

To name just one possibility: what about a remake of Dune? – Or, holy-of-holies, what does this mean for a Ringworld project?

Gawd, the mind boggles.

Kudos to Cameron. Avatar/Pandora is a wonder.

362 375 I don't agree that the tree or planet was sentient. I think that it was as stated, a giant network that the animals could access, upload and download from. The sticking point for many people is that the natives were blue. They also had only four limbs while every other creature had at least six. Maybe they were not native to the world? Jake only went full native after he plugged into the network. How about the possibility he was programmed by the network to better deal with and interact with the world and therefore felt more connected to the natives then the humans. Jake was somehow recognized by the network as special which is evident by the floating things (pure spirits) that gathered around him. Perhaps coming from a tech society he subconsciously understood that it was a network and not a god. This allowed him to later command all the wildlife to attack during the final battle. When the natives plugged into an animal in order to control it were they not in fact driving a from of avatar? Avatar could be a multilayer concept not restricted to the human created ones. The movie reminds of two books which were about terraforming efforts gone bad. In both cases the planet was a giant AI network with that was responsible for maintaining the environment. In both the decedents of the engineering teams had reverted to primitive cultures and mistook the technology as magic. The books are, "Ventus" and the "Soul Rider" series.

363 Sorry about the formatting. It was the first time I have ever posted here and I don't understand the ways of the comments.

364

So will that Star Wars guy start deconstructing Avatar next?  Because it needs it. 

Avatar in one word:  Smurfahontas.  Okay, this has spoilers. 

My eight year old (a huge fan of Transformers, etc., etc.) said he was "bored" seeing in in IMAX 3d.  I was mildly entertained by the "blue" U.S. Olympic women's volleyball team of female scantilly clad aliens but beyond that felt like I was watching a well made video game.   So let me say with a movie with this many special effects, mostly well done, something is missing.  I would suggest it is orginal writing and suspense. 

Can someone explain the physics of mountains floating in the sky?  Oh wait, I digress...

I have no problem with the Dances With Wolves story line when it is well done (and Dances With Wolves was not that well done a film).  Jerimah Johnson, Last of the Mohicans, A Man Called Horse, even Outlaw Josie Walespulled that off, however, to some degree, and those are good films.  Guys like Cammeron love The Searchers, as do I, but the reason we do is because that film explores themes of racism and hate fairly from both sides and does not pull any punches.  I also do not mind the whole let's save the planet eco friendly gaia message, provided I am not repeated beaten with it like I am a baby harp seal on the ice.  Cammeron has about about as much subtlety with that theme as one of his CGF alien rhino beasts crashing through the underbrush of Pandora. 

I am sure it will make money.  I dig the attention to detail on the little CGF bugs, ecosystem, etc., but it could have been a lot better if Cammeron just spent some more time writing a better script.  The actors, who have some talent, have to dial it in given the lines they are given. 

I did catch that comment by Col Quatraine about "betraying your race."  That is obviously a gift to Lefty* hacks out there.  Of course the protagonist is a white male, who bonds and mates with the blue chick (without any permission from her parents), and then takes over the tribe (because the blue men do not have the...whatever...to get the job done either with their own ladies, the "sky people", or even riding the giant flying gecko).  Perhaps Cammeron is the one who is a wee bit racist? 

Well here is another observation:  Notice that Cammeron's world of corporate mercinary villians are all populated by former U.S. Military?  There are references to actions in Venezuela and Nigeria.  There is not a Russian, Chi-Com, African, Asian, or for that matter European to be seen (I did not see that many African Americans mercs either, what's with that Jimmy C.?--(NOT cool dude, not cool at all.  Okay, you are mostly intending to be "good", so all is forgiven.  xoxo  The Left). 

So I can take it back on Earth in 2154, the Americans and the USMC won?  Uoooogh-Rah! 

* By "Lefty" I mean it in a more knee jerk generic hack "Gaia good, white patriarchy bad" sense.  Obviously there are people from the left and right political view points who can make a great movie or even a great science fiction story or movie. 

Please, please do not let Cammeron or some other lefty leaning ar-teast mess up The Moon Is A Harsh Mistress.  That would be heartbreaking. 

365 People, COME ON!!! The movie ISN'T ABOUT left/right-wing BULLSH*T!!! It's a sci-fi movie, for god's sake! It's not meant to send some philosophical message! Just watch it and enjoy it!

366 You wrote, "I understand it’s possible to believe that a single disapproving reference to “shock and awe” (against a helpless village of women and children) and villainous calls for “fighting terrorism with terrorism” and “preemptive strikes” are indictments of the War on Terrorism. But you have to really, really want it." While I'd agree that a lot of critics on the right are overreacting to the politics of the movie it's difficult to take those particular comments as anything other than an awkward stab at the War on Terror because they feel so out of place for the situation when they flow out of the mouths of the characters, that it's clear that Cameron's need to make a political point trumped artistic considerations or entirely blinded him to them.

367 I refuse to watch this movie, just as I refuse to watch any other movie that does not pander to my conservative politics.  Life is complicated enough without having my political dogma challenged by stale fairy tales.

368 Hee hee hee high art...
A mind is like a parachute. It only functions when open.

369 It's quite interesting sifting through these post from folks who claim to not care for a movie they haven't seen, yet are willing to spend hours of self torture and self inflicted anguish in attack. Much like watching a Beta fish on seeing it's own reflection in a mirror, beating it's self up on it's own glass container, yet never quite getting it.

370 It only functions when Little Girls Gallery

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