1 Non-starter?  There's som strong language, right there.  Ayup.  I wonder how many hundreds of millions o fdollars it would cost Reid America to get that engine to turn over?

2 "So, Harry, what's Plan C?"

Same as Plan B.  "Announce an agreement" that hasn't been agreed to.  Get the MSM to tout the "agreement".  Keep a rosy face on everything, AND HOPE LIKE HELL THAT IT PASSES.

3 I'd rather have the House back than the Senate.  The GOP senators have been, for the most part, such a disappointment.  At least the folks on the House side show occasional flashes of spine. 

4 I'm still reluctant to make any donations to the RNC, RSCC, or the RCCC.  I'm donating directly to candidates and listening to their financial team for recommendations on other candidates or committees to make donations to.

5 We are in awe of you, Rove.

6 Unfortunately, what's actually going to happen with the GOP is as predictable as gravity:

1) Win (in '10 and '12)
2) ??? Forget why you won and turn into a bunch of free-spending, vote-whoring big-government socialists indistinguishable from the other party (see '96 - '06)
3) Watch everyone go straight back to the Democrats.

How many times have we seen this cycle? As amusing as it is to watch Republicans stumble through politics like a bunch of Alzheimer's patients, it'd really be nice to see you wake up and realize that concentrating power in one big party corrupts people just as much as concentrating power in one big government does. It's the same problems, the same reasons, and the same results. And for some reason you always seem surprised by this.

If it makes you feel any better, the Democrats have the same problems. The first side to realize that a partisan  duopoly is only slightly worse than being limited to one party (gets you to the same place, just not as fast) will have a major advantage.

And spare me the whining drama about letting the Democrats take over everything. You already did that with you current strategy.

7

I'd rather have the House back than the Senate.  The GOP senators have been, for the most part, such a disappointment.  At least the folks on the House side show occasional flashes of spine

You missed the last part of the article:

With regards to the House, Republican gains are expected to surpass those in the Senate.  Republican challengers face a target rich environment in linking Democratic House members to the unpopular policies of liberal members like Nancy Pelosi.  Furthermore, I intend to place venemous snakes in the beds of Democrat opponents, reducing their ability to run an effective campaign.

Or at least that's what I think it said.  I kinda skimmed it.

8 "Step 2- ??? Hold to the principles of the rhetoric that get you there"

Why would they do that which they have never done before?

9

Drew, I would go further on your somber note to say that there has been no Republican realignment on their positions since the 2008 loss.  Most of the message traffic I see from Republican pols is the same as it was back then.  While I'm not going to cry over a Republican victory in 2010, I'm not optimistic that anything will change much beyond the pacing of this legislation.  There will still be the usual bipartisan (spit) efforts on the Republican side, and the screaming and caterwauling on the Democrat side.  And ultimately, watered down socialism will be the result.

Of course, I'd love to be wrong about that, but given Hutchison and Perry are the two GOP front runners for Texas governor, and both are liberal-lite products, I'm not getting the sense that the GOP has taken any of the past losses as an opportunity for realignment.

10 Plan C = Have the EPA take over heath-care because humans emit CO2 and therefore fall under the EPA.

Only half kidding.

11 Somehow winning that special election for Kennedy's seat in Jan - would either wake the Dems up and force Obama to the middle or make a bunch of fence sitting candidates and reps in tight districts decide to go make some money as lobbyists.

12

" It's not as if the Republicans are gaining because they have lots of new and popular ideas like in 1980 or 1994."

I disagree. The new popular idea is to undo the damage inflicted on the country by the democrats, and restore fiscal common sense and get rid of the corruption. we don't need to run on a bunch of geewhiz new ideas for additional legislation.

You didn't have have a million people marching in the streets in 1994 in support of the contract with America, but you do see that many in the streets in 2009 and 2010 protesting against the current regime.

13 Sen Nelson (of Florida) calls Reid's health care plan "a non-starter".

Even though he's very liberal, he's feeling the heat from the public.  This has nothing to do with the cost of Reid's clusterfuck.

14 Posted by: Hollowpoint at December 11, 2009 01:05 PM

Thanks, Hollowpoint. 

I guess what I was trying to say is that I don't feel that encouraged by making gains in the Senate under their current leadership/strategy.  'Didn't express it well, though.

15 Carl Rove is bastard love child of Caro & Tryggve Gran.

16 So, Harry, what's Plan C?

They will expand SCHIP to include children as old as 55.
Cigarettes are going to 1300 dollars a pack.
It's for the children and to stop smoking!
AARP Jr. has already endorsed it.

17 The new popular idea is to undo the damage inflicted on the country by the democrats, and restore fiscal common sense and get rid of the corruption.

We might get a bit on the first and second, the third not so much right now. 

18
We are once again in a GOP ascendancy, sparked by talented, energetic challengers.

Rove is wrong.

The only reason the GOP will win is not by anything they've done, but by not being Democrats. And that sucks because it is the flimsiest way a politician can enter office. Just look at Obama. He was elected because he was anti-Bush, not on his personal accomplishments. Obama's support is dwindling fast because people never really had any confidence in him; they were just using him to send a message.

The Republicans need to be proactive and make their case, not just sit around with their thumbs up their asses. Even if the GOP gains 4 senate seats, BFD! The Democrats will just win or steal them back in 2012 because the people will once again be fed up with the good-for-nothing Republicans.

19 I disagree. The new popular idea is to undo the damage inflicted on the country by the democrats, and restore fiscal common sense and get rid of the corruption. we don't need to run on a bunch of geewhiz new ideas for additional legislation.
Posted by: exceller at December 11, 2009 01:07 PM (jx2Td)

I think that's a new and popular idea with the public (though I don't think they really mean it) not with Republican office holders.

I know the Dems took spending to a whole new level last year but the GOP's rallying cry is essentially "We were like 50% not as bad on spending when we were in charge" isn't exactly confidence inspiring or really 'a new idea'.

"They suck more" is about the oldest political slogan in the world.

20 And just to be clear, 3rd party runs? Just Say No!

Well we can "wish" for that but until the Republican Party bosses get the message all this voter anger is not going to benefit them. Rove was on F&F this morning discounting the Rass pols that showed the non-existent Teaparty Party beating the Republicans.

I think blowing that off is a huge mistake and that is exactly what the Party leadership is doing.  People are pissed off at BOTH parties and if the leadership doesn't wake up and abandon this big tent horse shit third party candidates will get a significant portion of the vote.

I know one thing; I will NEVER vote for another McLame.

21 If it's true, as we read on another thread, that a third of the GOP "insiders" want to muzzle Sarah Palin, that does not bode well for any major shifts in philosophy by the party.  Whatever her weaknesses may be, there's no doubt that Palin's head is screwed on straight with respect to the concept of being a public servant.  The current bunch of senators, in particular, seem to think we work for them. 

22

Totally agree.  My take is this; Unless some strong leadership and statesmanship takes root in either or both of the parties the U.S. is in for the same kind of decline that Europe has experienced for the last 20 years.  The difference being that, because of the U.S., Europe has been able to mask their decline by using funds that would have otherwise gone to defense, to fund their bloated entitlement structures.  That is a luxury the U.S. will not have.   Instead of coasting down the hill like Europe has done, the U.S. will likely go over a cliff. 

As much as members of both political parties would have us believe otherwise, the piper is going to want to be paid.  He will also want those pockets full of IOUs to be redeemed as well.

When the politicians drive this bus over the cliff, no-one can really tell what will be at the bottom but the sudden stop will likely leave a few bruises.

23 "They suck more" is about the oldest political slogan in the world.

Posted by: DrewM. at December 11, 2009 01:12 PM (FCWQb)

But it's true! Plus, we're less filling.

24 If it's true, as we read on another thread, that a third of the GOP "insiders" want to muzzle Sarah Palin, that does not bode well for any major shifts in philosophy by the party.

It will take a decade or two long purge effort for the republican party to reform itself.  Keeping a creep when you must, and removing them when you can is a long multi-cycle effort.

25

I still think issues will define the next few electoral cycles. Smaller, less intrusive government will become quite the rage when folks get a real dose of statism in this upcoming year. Even that bastion of wishy-washiness, the moderates, will start to wake up and follow the crowd back over to conservatism when their electicity rates necessarily skyrocket for no good, demonstrable reason other than a regulation or a law.

We've been getting a lesson in radical leftist idealogy, good and hard. We're starting to feel like the Chicken.

26 @24

That's Senator Creep to you! 

27

It might be better tactically to have Pelosi still in charge in the House but only by a 1 or 2 vote margin - that way the Dems would still get the blame for all the bad shit that is going to happen but she will have to cater to the minority to get even the simplest things passed. If there's a GOP house Obama will have someting to run against in 2012 just like Clinton did in '96.  For the same reason I think a 6 seat pickup in the Senate would be great - give conservatives the right to block anything but not the obligation to propose policies of their own.  Because nothing anyone comes up with is going to work until we get well into this whole inflation/currency devaluation cycle, and it's going to discredit anyone in power.  Leave the clowns in charge, just take away most of their power. 

Oh sure, the country will go to hell under those circumstances, but we're already on that road, might as well enjoy it along the way.  Let 2012 be the end of the world - for Democrats, that is. 

28 DrewM.: "'They suck more' is about the oldest political slogan in the world."

The newest? "Racist!"

29 she will have to cater to the minority to get even the simplest things passed

The trouble is if that minority group is comprised of "moderate" Republicans... then all that's happening is pressure on the party to shift to the left. 

30 @6: "The first side to realize that a partisan duopoly is only slightly worse than being limited to one party (gets you to the same place, just not as fast) will have a major advantage." And the best way to demonstrate this would be to come out in favor of ballot access reform, campaigning for state laws that treat all parties equally. You need 60K signatures to run 3rd-party? Make that a Duopoly requirement as well. This is a major sleeper issue. If the GOP can come out for it, they will demonstrate that they aren't afraid of competition and won't hog the power all to themselves. Then the Dems will have to get on board. And the Dems have just as many disaffected voters as the GOP; they'll lose to Greens and other commies what the 'Pugs will lose to the LP, Constitution, etc.

31 I don't want folks like Mack-Bono (what's her name?) being the big players in the House.

32
Of course Sarah Palin is unwelcome in the GOP.

This is a party who told the leader of the party, the sitting president of the United States in his second term, to not come to the Convention in '08.

We are the party of pussies. When you're too much of a hand-wringing party of pussies to embrace your, albeit unpopular, president, you haven't got a chance to win people over in elections.

Keeping Bush at a distance in '08 was an admission of all the rotten and baseless shit thrown at Bush and the GOP by the Left. Bad bad political move. Until we  they stop making terrible political moves, they're gonna lose.

33 Very good points, Drew.  I'd like to see Republicans more forcefully objecting to the the Dems' ideas of health care reform, and putting more ideas of what we do need out there. I don't see it, and it's not enough to just run against unpopular ideas. It shouldn't be, anyway.

34

We all understand why 3rd parties are unpopular, but the problem is that Republicans have so damaged the brand that conservatives don't trust them.  Remember the recent poll that show a non-existant Tea Party candidate beating the generic Republican.  It's all well and good to say that Repubs are better than Dems, but that's getting less attractive all the time.  And look at the great job the Republicans are doing with candidate selection: Scozzafava, Charlie Crist....

35 Look at the leadership, Steele, McConell, Boner and fucking Gingrich. Gimme a fucking break will ya?

The GOP is dead to me. I'm putting my time and $$ into real conservative candidates. If we lose so be it.

36 Oh, and Rove can eat my ass.

37

I'm with Drew on this one, we still need to complain like hell even if the GOP gets back in power.  Sure, I'll high-5 with everyone else on election night and think we have turned a corner but that will probably only last about a week. 

Unless the GOP starts talking about tearing down this behemoth of a government, and actually starts acting on it, nothing changes.  Don't tell me what you are going to construct for me, tell me what you are going to tear down.

 

38 It's not as if the Republicans are gaining because they have lots of new and popular ideas like in 1980 or 1994.

We don't need new ideas. Our ideas from '80 & '94 were and still are plenty popular, if not immediately in theory, then eventually in effect.

Keep it simple, don't try to out-pander, and focus on driving the economy.

What we need are candidates who will pick up the standard.

39 Just where this country will be in a year is the real question.

40 I would say the most important thing for 2010, other than trying for some wins, is that a message to these assholes be delivered. 

That message should be: "we're not snoozing anymore, we're watching you".  The rise of alt-media makes doing that easier every day. 

I was rather shocked at how fast ClimateGate shifted the playing field, and that was in the face of a virtual media blackout.  I'd predicted 2 months just to get a decent read on what it really was before any lasting effects would be seen.  That compressed down into more like two weeks and poll numbers have already started to move.

The power of alt-media might become very significant over the next couple of years.

41 Keeping Bush at a distance in '08 was an admission of all the rotten and baseless shit thrown at Bush and the GOP by the Left. Bad bad political move.

I agree.  It was spineless, classless, and unnecessary.  The Obama campaign and their handmaidens in the MSM were making it all about Bush anyway, so nothing (good) was accomplished by excluding President Bush. 

42 +1 Barbarian @35.  If they want my vote and my money, they can goddamn run some goddamn conservatives that I will goddamn vote for.  Not before.

43

8 "Step 2- ??? Hold to the principles of the rhetoric that get you there"

Why would they do that which they have never done before?

Hopefully because by that time Sarah Palin will have captured the imagination of the conservative base (i.e., the majority of Americans), utterly stupified the Republican "elites" by raising giga-tons of money, and become the obvious thought leader of the Republican Party, a Joan of Arctic, if you will!

The only thing she needs to do differently is ixnay on the irdthay artiespay ullshitbay!  I figure she's doing it just to scare the elites, but it gives them an excuse to continue to avoid enthusiastically supporting her.

44 Vic: "Rove was on F&F this morning discounting the Rass pols that showed the non-existent Teaparty Party beating the Republicans."

Really? For a smart guy, he's then amazingly foolish. It's thinking like that that will force the reelection of far lefties as true Independents and disgruntled, ultra-principled conservatives split the Right.

The GOP remains the Stupid Party™. If it actually plans this kind of politics, then replace "stupid" with "dangerous and malignant". See Scozzafava, 2009.

45 I wonder if Rove and the rest of the GOP "elite" have any fucking idea why there is any noise of a Teaparty? Could it be because they are infested with RINOs? Has anyone threatened to leave the conservatives and form a moderate party to be called Milksop or Demlite (what the RINO's have become)? We elected these guys on the Contract With America and once in office they wiped their asses with it and became what we reject. Fucking idiots. And Rove is whistling through RINO graveyard if they keep it up. Someone should send those fools a copy of the principles that the Republican party was based on. They should bet them tattooed on their asses so they can review them whilst they are kissing each other's asses for being do damn bi-partisan.

46 I just said this at another blog which had a bright outlook about GOP changes in 2010:

This entire article is moot until you factor in two things:
1. Tea party voters want Conservatives, not Republicans.
2. Obama is sitting on a 200 billion dollar slush fund.

47

Hmmmm, Tea Party Republicans.

Kinda rolls off the tongue, don't it?

48
I'm surprised at Rove and really disappointed.

Rove was the genius behind the phenomenal GOP GOTV effort in 2004 that gave Bush a record-breaking 60+ million votes. Rove, of all people, should appreciate the power of a grassroots movement.

49 If you have kids please read Michelle Malkin today about what our kids are being taught in school.   Look up 'Rethinking schools' and the C.l.e.a.r. Justice Initiative on the internet to see who is determining what your kids will be taught.

50 Oh, and no I am not ruling out third party goodness because if that's what it takes to get the Republicans to support Conservative principles instead of 'reaching across the aisle' then that's what it takes. No point in voting for Republicans if we're going to get Republicans. May as well just stay home.

51

@krakatoa

I agree with you on not needing new ideas. You're right, and I misspoke. But the old ideas are lost lately. Repackaging and reselling the old ideas in a fresh, vigorous way would be just fine with me.

52 1. anyone see the Allah post on Rubio & the stimulus and the snarky "RINO!" sub-headline?

2. when Obama's down by 1 point to the Huckster who's in the middle fo a PR disaster you know things are bad for dems

3. I see it that the moderates voted dem after fatigue of republican power & Iraq looking like a quagmire in 2006 plus add the mad republican base to that, in 2008 moderates wanted to get rid of anything Bush was associated with and republicans ended up with a nominee that didn't excite them the way Obama did the dems. Moderates were told by the dems they'd get Bill Clinton's sucess back, except they forgot Clinton had a Republican congress & now they're starting to realize they voted in Carter & it's the late 70's all over again

53 They will expand SCHIP to include children as old as 55.

Ha!  Wisconsin expanded it to childless individuals under 65 two years ago.

54
Rove, if you remember, was smeared by the Left as the guy behind Gays, Guns, and God.

Why isn't Rove defending the Tea Party protesters against the same type of smears?

55 Karl Rove's a punk. He's one of the big reasons we're in the mess we're in.

56 Well we can "wish" for that but until the Republican Party bosses get the message all this voter anger is not going to benefit them. Posted by: Vic

Actually, a viable 3rd party that wins elections is the wishful part.

People who want a change in the GOP would be best served by joining the GOP. It seems pretty self-evident but i'd be willing to put a bet down that the majority of people calling for a 3rd party don't know the name of their precinct captain.

Here's something that might work: organize independently in your state as conservatives, Tea Party, Angry Bastards or whatever. Have representatives join the local GOP orgs and push for change.

57 This post alone dropped Ace from 2nd to a tie for 3rd for funniest right-wing blog. You couldn't do one dick joke? For shame.

58 Plan C?

Holy undercount.

If we start in March, Plan A was "Dust off Leftist wet dream, pass it without letting even the Democrats glance at it via the sheer power of pixie dust exuded by The One. Key elements: Promising that this is a crucial pice of the War on the Economy - and hoping that people interpret that in an Obama-favorable fashion."

At this point, we've gone through the entire damn alphabet, and we're well into "Plan Θ" Or "Plan Ζ" depending on where you draw the lines.

But the chant is still "This is crucial reinforcements for the War on the Economy!"

59 @49, read it - be sure to write your Senators and Congressman. Now.

60 Rove was the co-captain of the Titanic, along with Mr. Compassionate Conservative Spend Our Asses Off.

61 @27 the evil godwin

If there's a GOP house Obama will have someting to run against in 2012 just like Clinton did in '96.

The problems with your parallel are:

1.  The economy was doing great in '96, and the world was largely at peace

2.  Gingrich really screwed the pooch over the government shutdown in the winter of '95-'96

3.  The kenyan princess is at least as unlikeable a person as Gingrich is

4.  As much as I despise Clinton for being a self-serving asshole, he was not incompetent

I'd like to see the house go GOP, and I'd like to see a rematch of the government shutdown.  If the kenyan princess goes down, I expect that a solid majority will start kicking the crap out of him.  The DLC types will get on that bandwagon, and there's a better than even chance that he will be impeached and removed from office.

I cannot see any way for the economy to improve under this administration unless they abandon their agenda.

62 Breaking news. Drone  kills type 3 Al Qaida leader in South Weeweestan. Rove says that the drone needs a good lawyer.

63 YRM: "1. anyone see the Allah post on Rubio & the stimulus and the snarky 'RINO!' sub-headline?"

Classic AllahP. It's also why AllahP places as the Most Annoying Right-Of-Center Blogger.

2) Robert Stacy McCain (4)
2) Allahpundit/Hot Air (4)
1) Debbie Schlussel (7)

64 @57

Present!

65 Something Karl Rove isn't taking into account in his analysis is quite likely the MOST IMPORTANT aspect of the entire election cycle: VOTER ENTHUSIASM.

As even DailyKos had to admit, Dems are in a serious funk.  The Obama Youth and Black vote that turned out in droves in 2008?  Non-existent in 2010.  Face it, most of the folks in those demos likely don't even know who their Congressmen are much less enthusiastic to vote for them.  Not a slam on them, just a reality.  They don't tend to be politically wonkish.

2008 was a party and a cult of personality that attracted youth and minorities to the polls.  2010, not so much.

The right is PISSED.  They will vote with a passion.  Old people are PISSED.  They will vote with a passion.  Independents are dis-illusioned.  Those who loved Obama will stay home and those who thought they would give him a shot feel betrayed and will vote.

Polls don't reflect this.

I think, unless the economy does a massive 180 or Obama learns how to tri-angulate by 2010 (he won't - he can't), Republicans could easily retake the House and Senate.

P.S., No, I'm not worried about any third party Tea-Party candidates messing things up.  I think the Tea-Party movement is smart enough to know THAT would be a DISASTER and will simply use their leverage to force candidate's right.

I get the impression that the Tea Party Movement is much more about fiscal and defense issues and much less about social/moral issues.  Moderate Republicans who are conservative on fiscal/defense issues should still do well.  RINO's are history.

66 Rove was the genius behind the phenomenal GOP GOTV effort in 2004 that gave Bush a record-breaking 60+ million votes.

and thank God he did that because the hatred of the 2000 election results, Bush's approvals going down to the early 50's, Iraq starting to get bad, and the media trying to make a good economy look bad made the dems galvanize together for Kerry who should have never given Bush the fight he did, but then again Bush made lots of mistakes in that election, lucky for him he was still popular at the time & the economy didn't hurt people personally no matter how much the media tried to talk it down

If you have kids please read Michelle Malkin today about what our kids are being taught in school.

I've seen it personally, my younger sister is being told how great Obama is at school, and textbooks are riddled w/ mistakes & bad evidence & misinterpretations that should be thrown out (i'm looking at you Science & History  Textbooks)

67 Given that it took about 40 years for the GOP to retake control from the Democrats in both houses of Congress, and that it took the Democrats 12 years to wrest it back, it would be a remarkable development if the GOP were back on top in both houses by 2012.  While it's a very worthwhile goal, there has to be in parallel a great deal of focus Step 2 in your model, building a movement that consolidates its appeal to the electorate by demonstrating long-term concern for the best interest of America and its citizens.

68

What is it about the Bush family?

They're given a conservative mandate, and then they fuck it all up.

69

The other aspect of the GOP that really grates is their lack of balls. Did anybody stand up to the Dims and the MSM while we were bombarded with all their bullshit for eight straight years? "Worst economy since the Depression" while we were at record low unemployment numbers with low inflation? And no one on the GOP side even bothered to counter with some actual facts to refute them?

We need to become as aggressive with our attitude as the left is. Not whiney, just realistic. We have a target-rich environment with the current crop of radicals in Washington. A Mao worshipper as communications director, a safe-for-peverts school czar who hands out pornography to students, a science czar that hates the human race (execpt for him, naturally) and thinks there should be a lot less of them. And that the govenment should help by putting sterilants in the water supply.

Is this really what we voted for? Are these the representatives of a sane society?

I think not.

70

“But public option two, which was never on the agenda before, a buy-in to the actual Medicare program for 55- to 64-year-olds, is an enormous positive development. It’s actually the original idea, if you will, for the public option, simply letting people get into the Medicare program that provides broad, secure coverage at an affordable price.”

When you have, Jacob Hacker of Yale University, dubbed by some as the inventor of the “public option”, calling this a positive development, you know there is nothing good here.

71
Yep, but all that goodwill created by Bush & Rove in 2004 was squandered with Dubai Ports, illegals, weakness in the WOT, and the expansion of government.

That's why I say George Bush's Legacy: Barack Hussein Obama.

72 68

What is it about the Bush family?

They're given a conservative mandate, and then they fuck it all up.

They got fucking Washingtonized, and they had a hellova lotta company.

73 "3 I'd rather have the House back than the Senate.  The GOP senators have been, for the most part, such a disappointment.  At least the folks on the House side show occasional flashes of spine. 

Posted by: Y-not at December 11, 2009 12:56 PM (sey23)"

That is true, but it would be good to have the Senate because the confirmation process runs through there. At least we'd have a chance at stopping some of the worst lefties from getting top Senate-confirmed posts.

74 Really? For a smart guy, he's then amazingly foolish.

Yep, what he was trying to push was that people may be "for" this teaparty movement but in the end they will go down and vote for Republicans because they do not want the Dem to win.

In short, he is still hung up on the "lesser of the evils" strategy that worked so well in 08.  The idiots in charge of the Republican Party still refuse to recognize that they lost because running a RINO caused a significant number of the base to stay at home and vote for nobody.

Yes, it is time for new leadership and a housecleaning in the party. The problem is that the Republican Party is really 50 independent parties. In this State a significant portion of them are ex Democraps which is how Graham gets so much support.

Normally thre State governor runs his Party in the State but here Grahamnasty runs the Party.

Another indicator of how stupid the Party bosses are is the fact that they are still not even discussing changing the primary rules. I don't know of ANY Republican or Republican leaning independent who doesn't agree that the rules need changing. But no discussion at all.

All you here is this loser "Big Tent" shit.

75 Every history textbook I have ever had that references the Nazi party calls it a right-wing movement.

76

Without Limbaugh, 1994 would not have happened. The Pubbies in Congress never had the balls.

We outsider conservatives have had to carry the water for the shitty Republican leadership. What the hell were they thinking when they pushed McCain into the slot for 2008? That stupid prick couldn't find his ass with a flashlight.

77 @68

Big George was fundamentally a diplomat at heart.  Never elect a diplomat.

I think we'll never really know how George W. would have turned out... 9/11 happened so early in his term and was so occupied his mind that his domestic agenda became whatever feel-good stuff he thought he could accomplish... and whatever the Republicans in Congress wanted to go for.  He didn't really lead on domestic issues.

I don't harbor much resentment toward W.  His priorities were in fighting the war on terror and for that I'm grateful. 

78 Third Party = FAIL!

Got that way and you own it. Baby, bathwater, plug and drain.

79

And just to be clear, 3rd party runs? Just Say No!

Well, New England does not have a single Republican House member.  How about a viable 2nd party for our New England brethren?

80

it seems that many of you here agree with me:  this is my distillation of what we think:

1: we want the Dems gone.  they are the ultimate bad-guys.

2:  we would prefer (strongly) that the replacements be really conservative, but would accept a moderate if that is the only way to get rid of the Dem.

81 Every history textbook I have ever had that references the Nazi party calls it a right-wing movement.

That is because 999 out of a 1000 writers of History textbooks are left wing liberals.

82

What is it about the Bush family?

Same thing as the rest of the country club Republicans: they hate the conservative base. I'll bet if we took a poll asking "Do you feel used by Republican politicians?" the results would be 90% yes. These assholes only walk and talk like conservatives (and Christians) during the campaign season. 

Until we acknowledge that the GOP hates us, things will never change.

83 Here's something that might work: organize independently in your state as conservatives, Tea Party, Angry Bastards or whatever. Have representatives join the local GOP orgs and push for change.

This is a great idea.  I have started going to local meetings in my area.  It's nothing fancy, just a bunch of people who meet at a diner every month or so.  It doesn't take much to subvert them.

84 2010, not so much.

no Bush, moderates mad at dems, and the youth vote is not reliable, I've met Obots who have no clue there's such a thing as a midterm, midterms are more reserved for the politically informed, the idiots come out and vote in the Presidential election years


The problems with your parallel are:

1.  The economy was doing great in '96, and the world was largely at peace

exactly, and Clinton's 1996 acceptance speech made it seem like it was heaven on earth under him and that Republicans had a role and were involved

2.  Gingrich really screwed the pooch over the government shutdown in the winter of '95-'96

even w/ all that Dole opened up the campaign w/ a 2-3% lead but it quickly went away & it went downhill from there, but Gingrich did hurt himself w/ that shutdown

3.  The kenyan princess is at least as unlikeable a person as Gingrich is

Clinton always had bad favorables though, problem is indepedents loved him & got behind him, meanwhile indepedents are running away from Obama & even w/ all that was going for Bill in 96', he still couldn't get 50% of the vote, between him and Dole (factoring Perot out) it was Clinton 54% Dole 46%, the way Dole ran that thing it should have been a landslide

4.  As much as I despise Clinton for being a self-serving asshole, he was not incompetent

alot of Republicans are missing him right now if a dem had to be in office

85

i'm re-reading.  vic thinks that no moderate Republican should occupy elected office.

but vic, sometimes the moderate Republican is the only one that can be elected.

86 3rd party candidates focusing on spending will be a disaster that results in Democrats surviving. Complain all you want about the two major parties but that's how the system works and I'm not interested in electing more Democrats to prove a point or something.

I have no interest in electing a right-wing liberal tax-n-spend Republican to replace a left-wing liberal tax-n-spend Democrat.  So if you don't want votes for 3rd parties, I suggest you lean on your Republican pals to start nomination people who talk the talk AND walk the walk.

The "Tea Party" out polls the generic Republican. Keep that in mind.  We in the base are sick of being trotted out every two years then locked up in the attic like the crazy aunt.  All the Brooks, Kathy Parkers, and other "moderates" voted for Chocolate Jesus. So, IOW, this time we want some assurances that if we spring for dinner, a corsage, prom tickets, etc., that we're not going to find our dates, once more, fellating the quarterback for the other high school in the parking lot.

87

1. Tea party voters want Conservatives, not Republicans

Thanks Def that is exactly right.  And just as importantly, they want elected representatives who are ethical, who do not use their office to get rich or spend their time chasing tail.

 

88 @85

It depends on how you define "moderate." 

On some issues, I'd rather have Joe Lieberman in the mix than one of the Maine sisters. 

89 back to getting "tea party" people into the local Republican party:  that's the way it is here in my county.  but we are not representative of anywhere because we are so rural.  We are the "not-Democrat" party, in a way.

90 Posted by: t.ferg at December 11, 2009

Good point.  Although, aren't the GOP Senators famous for being unwilling to turn down appointees because it's essentially "impolite" to not rubber-stamp the President's picks?

91

@71

Don't forget about  me!

92 It doesn't take much to subvert them.
Posted by: chemjeff

Indeed, but we'll have to avoid doing the Howard Beale impersonation until after you've become the committee chair or treasurer.

93

Hmmm. Militant Conservative.

That sounds even better.

94 @84 YRM

. . . but Gingrich did hurt himself w/ that shutdown

To clarify my original point about the shutdown:  The shutdown was the right thing to do, but Gingrich made his dumbass comment to the press about doing it because Clinton made him sit in the back of Air Force One, and he made himself look like a spoiled princess.

95 @ 68

another problem is Bushes are like Kennedys, they're hated vigorously by the other side, even after 9/11 the unity went away quick and the 2004 election was a close one

That is because 999 out of a 1000 writers of History textbooks are left wing liberals.

and 999 out of a 1000 writers of Science textbooks are science worshiping, religion bashing, AGW believing, pricks

96
what good to us is a 'moderate' Republican if s/he votes with the Democrats?

Look, the first thing we need to do is be clear on the definition of moderate. To me, a moderate Republican is a Republican who would only expel Dodd and Frank from Congress not arrest them for treason.

But the conventional interpretation of a moderate Republican is a Republican who agrees with conservatives on 50% or less of the issues.

97

Posted by: MikeO at December 11, 2009 02:00 PM (Ce+tv)

right & it hurt his popularity, the only speaker to be as hated as he was is...oh wait the current speaker of the house, Nancy Pelosi

98

Please, Please, Please....go third party.

That allows me to continue to say that conservatives have been marginalized and made insignificant. Here, I will give you the loaded gun and directions to your foot.

99

Bush lucked out with Lurch in 2004. Mildly handsome always beats out weird and ugly.

But then the road got bad: his second term will go down as the most horrific in decades. He got into a fetal position after the Dims won back Congress and just let them kick him mercilessly with the MSM egging them on. After Katrina, the entire Globaloney got into full swing and he went around all Jimmy Carter-like, blathering about how we're "addicted to oil" and the wonders of using switchgrass, like we're starving horse herders in Outer Mongolia. And then the shithead Pubbies starting fondling pages and it all got ugly.

And, as the grand finale - there came McCain - the dry wrinkled cherry on the cake.

I never want to see another fucking Bush within 100 miles of the White House.

They opened the door for both Clinton and Obama.  And worse.

100 vic thinks that no moderate Republican should occupy elected office.

Not exactly true. The problem is how you define "moderate". That is being defined by the media now and basically it means liberal. A Moderate Dem is one who believes in limiting abortion and nationalizing health care and tax and spend et al.  A moderate Republican is one who votes with the Dems mnore than the Republicans ie the ME sisters.

Under my definition a moderate R would be one with an ACU rating between 90 and 95. They become a RINO below 80 and a DIABLO below 50.

101
to wit: Arlen Specter

He was useless to us. There is no difference at all now that he's a Democrat.

102 @97 YRM

I'm beating a dead horse here, but I just wanted it aired that some people took the wrong lesson that a government shutdown was unacceptable to the American public.  It was Gingrich's fat mouth that moved the public to Clinton's side on that issue.

103 What the hell were they thinking when they pushed McCain into the slot for 2008?

Well, the main reason for this is that McCain won with crossover votes in states with open primaries.

So, in effect, the 2010 GOP presidential candidate was determined not by party leaders, but by Democrat voters.

This is what we need to fix. Stop open primaries.

104 "Always with the negative waves, Moriarity, always with the negative waves."

What would Reagan say about all these whiny Eeyores complaining about how the Republicans might act if they win back enough seats to be an effective opposition . . .?  Freakin' losers . . .

I, too, have been mightily disappointed by the failures of Republicans in Congressional power, for they have mightily sucked each time they've attained it in the last century or so.  Yet, I am one of the fortunate few whose melancholia has not completely destroyed my reasoning capacity, it seems.  Thank God!

First, let us note that under even the most optimistic predictions do not show the GOP re-taking any power at all.  The most we can hope at this point is to be numerically able to be a more effective opposition, especially in the Senate but also in the House.

Given that opposition requires a stiffer backbone, and that there will still be no new perqs to distribute or lobbyists to rewards, it seems premature at the least to fret and wring hands over what might happen IF the GOP ever actually won control of  the House or Senate again, especially since even if they won both they would still have to deal with Obama in charge (hey, remember the '90s?  mmmkay?).

So dry your tears, Buttercups, there is still time to grow a set of testicles before the next election.

105 And no one on the GOP side even bothered to counter with some actual facts to refute them?

There were rebuttals, the media simply refused to give them much airtime.  This is where the ascendence of alt-media will help a lot in the future.  Public trust in big media is collapsing, and they're starting to look elsewhere.

106 Actually, we have a bit of a grassroots, third-party phenomenon going on now and it will get better (or worse, depending on perspective).

Fundraising. I no longer give money to the GOP. I was never big on it but I give more now and to more candidates than ever, but I send it to individual campaigns. I'll also give to PACs for focal action on fundamental, litmus issues.

Why? It takes the control away from the GOP which I now distrust and allows me to be more impactful (in my mind, anyway) and give support whether the party gives it to them or not. I don't need the GOP. It needs me. As long as I see it as inefficient or tone deaf, I can do my own research and back the anti-establishment. Via technology, many more have this power too, obviously.

In essence this is third-party activism even though, technically, it's support of an entrenched one. Sure, this has been available for eons, but it has never been as easy for a) individuals to do research and b) candidates to solicit and collect support outside of party-sanctioned process.

This is how the Tea Party "Party" can shake things up. Quickly. Grassroots all the way.

107
Collins and Snowe will vote for the final socialized medicine bill. I know it. You know it. We all know it. And so will Joe Lieberman.

Why? Because they're all Democrats. They're not moderates; they're Democrats.

108 ..but vic, sometimes the moderate Republican is the only one that can be elected.

That's the kind of comment Andrew Sullivan masturbates to when he's not out antiqueing.

109 I hate to say this, but the more we move along in time, I am afraid that the corruption is so inherent in the system that they only thing that will cure it is a complete reboot.

I sometimes believe the only way that will happen is if GOOOH succeeds.

110 It was Gingrich's fat mouth that moved the public to Clinton's side on that issue.

Posted by: MikeO at December 11, 2009 02:04 PM (Ce+tv)

I wish someone would heliarc-weld that boring bastard's piehole shut.

111

Posted by: TexasJew at December 11, 2009 02:03 PM (dcKUM)

after Katrina, it went to shit & he just kept digging a bigger hole w/ each passing month of that 2nd term, he dipped below 50% after Katrina and never looked back, it's a wonder that during the transition he suddenly went from 22% approve to 34% approve and that he left w/ a favorable of 53%

112

@102 MikeO

I disagree;  the Republicans saw that they had defeated the Democrats for the first time in 40 years and were shell-shocked, apaprently forgetting that the media wing of the Left was still firmly in control.  The MSM said government shutdowns were Reagan's fault;  when the parties shifted flipped power, the media conveniently shifted the blame for shutdowns to the House.

113 The power of alt-media might become very significant over the next couple of years.

Posted by: Purple Avenger at December 11, 2009 01:27 PM (XPDI+)

PA, you must've missed the announcement:  The net neutrality/fairness doctrine gar-BAUJ is scheduled to start this spring.

114

108 ..but vic, sometimes the moderate Republican is the only one that can be elected.

Worked for Bob Dole. He was elected "boner pill salesman of the decade".

115

107 Collins and Snowe will vote for the final socialized medicine bill. I know it. You know it. We all know it. And so will Joe Lieberman.
Why? Because they're all Democrats. They're not moderates; they're Democrats.

...and Democrats are not Democrats, they're radical leftists.  Every freaking one of them.  I won't be voting for any RINOs anymore, ever.  It's not worth it for me to roll out of the rack, drive three minutes to my polling place, pull the lever, and still get screwed the exact same way, over and over.  Furthermore, the reason that people don't see the difference between the two parties is because THERE IS NO FUNCTIONAL DIFFERENCE between the two parties in a majority of cases! 

116 Sorry should have been goooh

117 It was Gingrich's fat mouth that moved the public to Clinton's side on that issue.

Biased media played a large part too.  They maintained the constitutional fiction that it was congress who shutdown the government.  Congress sent Clinton a bill, he simply refused to sign it.

A responsible media, might have run that little video about how a bill becomes a law and educated the public on the constitutional aspects of what was happening.

118 105 There were rebuttals, the media simply refused to give them much airtime.  This is where the ascendence of alt-media will help a lot in the future.  Public trust in big media is collapsing, and they're starting to look elsewhere.

I agree.  I think the death throes of the old media are THE paradigm shift of the last 50 years. The advent of FOX news and the blogs at least give the conservative side a chance at shaping public opinion.  Look what Palin has done to the storyline with just Facebook and Twitter....

Can you imagine how different recent history would look right now if The Media^TM had a neutral bias let alone leaned to the right?????

119 @112 motionview

The MSM said government shutdowns were Reagan's fault;  when the parties shifted flipped power, the media conveniently shifted the blame for shutdowns to the House.

I fully acknowledge that you may be right.  The MSM may have been able to pin the blame for the shutdown on the house GOP. 

But we never will *know* that for certain because Gingrich effectively conceded the high ground for our side when he shot-off his stupid, spoiled-princess mouth.

120

but vic, sometimes the moderate Republican is the only one that can be elected.

That's the kind of comment Andrew Sullivan masturbates to when he's not out antiqueing.

Yea - we need a real conservative here.

121
CNN: 61% Oppose Senate Health Care Plan

oooooo - that doesn't fit the narrative.
come on MSM - get your pimp on.

122

but vic, sometimes the moderate Republican is the only one that can be elected.

That's the kind of comment Andrew Sullivan masturbates to when he's not out antiqueing.

Yea - we need a real conservative here.

Ditto.

123 THERE IS NO FUNCTIONAL DIFFERENCE between the two parties in a majority of cases! 

Posted by: Truman North at December 11, 2009 02:10 PM (e8YaH)

One Jim Inhofe is worth remaining a Pubbie for me. If they finally shitcan that dimwit Michael Steele, I'll actually stop ripping up their funddrive letters.

I have two words for you about Third Parties:

Ralph Nader.

124
Even before Katrina, Bush got weak and stupid. After he won the election he instructed us not to gloat. Instead of saying thank you, he praised Karl Rove for being the "architect" and then proceeded to speak to us like we were assholes. To put it simply, they used us.

Bush's next mistake was pushing Rumsfeld out the door. He just won reelection and the FIRST thing Bush did was accept his orders from the Left that Rumsfeld must go.

I know a lot of you didn't like Rumsfeld because he supposedly was trying to fight in Iraq "on the cheap." But Robert Gates sucks.

125

but vic, sometimes the moderate Republican is the only one that can be elected.

That's the kind of comment Andrew Sullivan masturbates to when he's not out antiqueing.

Yea - we need a real conservative here.

We are so ready to elect a pro-life, pro-gun, tough on immigration, budget hawk who thumps the bible  any day now. Really.

126

Let's get Inhofe into a real goddamn man's party

127

In the spirit of the "New era of bipartisanship" and since it's only fair,

I guess it's time to start saying that the Obama Administration hasn't done shit about protecting the environment.

http://tinyurl.com/ybp63xk

 

128 I know a lot of you didn't like Rumsfeld because he supposedly was trying to fight in Iraq "on the cheap." But Robert Gates sucks.

Posted by: the professional sockpuppeteer at December 11, 2009 02:15 PM (z37MR)

I'd liked Rumsfeld because the Dims hated him. That's always enough for me.

129

but vic, sometimes the moderate Republican is the only one that can be elected.

That's the kind of comment Andrew Sullivan masturbates to when he's not out antiqueing.

Yea - we need a real conservative here.

Hell, we would elect a purist tomorrow if we had an election.

130 @124 professional sockpuppeteer

I still don't understand the Rumsfeld firing.  That struck me as the beginning of the "screw it" phase of his presidency.  From that point forward, he made so many mistakes that smelled like he worried too much about what other people think.

131
Yeah, and I liked Ashcroft...a lot.

But Bush replaced him with a more moderate AG in the name Al Gonzales, under pressure of the Left.

Gonzales had his faults but Bush hung him out to dry, too. That's why I had it with Bush. He let Gonzales swing in the wind for months before finally cutting him loose. And Gonzales did nothing wrong.

btw, how many US Attorneys has Obama fired that the media didn't tell us about? We know about the IG, Walpin, but who else has Obama fired for political reasons?

132

The best thing to do is to get conservatives and fiscal libertarians involved in the Republican Party.

The business community has realized that paying off the commies is not going to work, and that is where the real money is. Independent businesspeople should contribute massively to get pro-free enterprise people into office.

The Dims love Buffett, GE and all the other scumbag rentseekers. The problem is, small and medium-sized businesses are the real engines to our economy and they are about to get fucked. If the Republicans started getting aggressive, they'll be beating the Dims 10-to-one in fundraising.

133
...he worried too much about what other people think.

Yeah, but only the people on the Left, his political enemies.

134 Rumsfeld, Inhofe, Palin? Now that's what I'm talkin' 'bout. Throw in some Cheney (either one), The Fred!, Bolton, D. Hunter, Bachmann, Issa, and DeMint and we might have a party.

135 This is what we need to fix. Stop open primaries.

Don't forget the rules for "winning" as well. McLame won the individual primaries usually with only 30% of the vote even with the independents and Dems crossing over.

I know the point is to try to get the primaries over quickly and limit the rancor between candidates and excessive spending but when you have a candidate like McLame who not only didn't have the support of the majority of the Party, but also was actively disliked by a majority of the Party.

That rule needs to change as well.

136 @128

I liked Rumsfeld. Especially his press conferences.  Comedy gold.

137 It's not as if the Republicans are gaining because they have lots of new and popular ideas like in 1980 or 1994.

"New ideas"? Why are new ideas needed when the traditional ones work just fine? Who out there has a problem with personal liberty? With limited government? With low taxes and responsible government budgeting?

138

Hell, we would elect a purist tomorrow if we had an election.

Posted by: Oregon at December 11, 2009 02:20 PM (hKyl0)

Actually, Oregon is less moonbatty than you might initially think.  Yes there are the Portland liberals and the Eugene communists who will vote D all the time.  But the whole rest of the state is primarily rural and more conservative-friendly.  You need to work harder at it, that is for sure, but it's not an impossibility to see Oregon go red sometime in the near future.

139 127 In the spirit of the "New era of bipartisanship" and since it's only fair,

I guess it's time to start saying that the Obama Administration hasn't done shit about protecting the environment.

http://tinyurl.com/ybp63xk

Posted by: Hussein the Plumber at December 11, 2009 02:16 PM (RkRxq)

I don't think anyone here gives a shit about the birdies at this stage. We're to busy trying to keep our children from becoming prostitutes for Chinese businessmen.

140
Yeah - bickering and in-fighting about the lack of perfection really worked out for us in 2006 and 2008.

I'm as disappointed in the GOP as the next guy/gal - but politics is always about the lesser of two evils.  Pick yer poison.

141
oh, and remember Rep Porter who took over the CIA but then said fuck it and left because Bush tied his hands?

Now we have Leon fucking cocksucking Panetta as the head of the CIA. How fucked up is that?

If you told me in, say, 2003, Leon Panetta, a hasbeen hack from the Clinton admin, would be the CIA boss I'd never believe it. And if you told me in 2003 we'd have an anti-American leftist professor with a muslim name as the 44th president, I woulda said you have rocks in your head.

142 The Dims love Buffett, GE and all the other scumbag rentseekers. The problem is, small and medium-sized businesses are the real engines to our economy and they are about to get fucked.

Well of course - it's easier to control a few large corporations than thousands of small businesses.

143 I think Rumsfeld's approach has essentially been vindicated.  The Surge would NOT have worked if it was executed even 6 months earlier.  When the shit went sideways its quite clear that some "soak time" was necessary for the Iraqi people to embrace the suck and decide Mad Max World wasn't the way they wanted to go.  Once the "green shoots" of that attitude change started solidly showing themselves, THEN it was time to go all in.

This is where I think maybe Obama is fucking up in Afghanistan.  There are rumblings of discontent with the Taliban among the locals, and there have been a handful of localized early adopters inclined to resist, but due to the more geographically diffused nature of the population, I think the "soak time of the suck" needed might be somewhat longer than it was in Iraq.

144

75

"Every history textbook I have ever had that references the Nazi party calls it a right-wing movement."

There's a couple reasons for that, I suppose.  The first would be that Hitler was completely opposed to the Socialist side of his own party.  The fate of the Strassor brothers come to mind.  He was also vehemently opposed to Marxism.  German commies were an endagered species in Nazi Germany.  Finally, his co-opting of the German military class is another example historians use to paint it as a right wing movement.

That said, I personally believe it's dificult to hang any label on Nazism.  It was a nationalistic race based philosophy.  There was no real economic plan other than to gear up for war and return the "Aryan" to his rightful place; as the master of lesser races.  I think the creature is fairly unique and defies modern labels of left and right.

Fascism, on the other hand, has always been misconstrued as rightist.

145

121
CNN: 61% Oppose Senate Health Care Plan

I saw that on Hannady last night. I believe that I remember Dick Morris stating that when the healthcare bill reached 60% disapproval, it would be dead as a doornail.

146 Sock off

147
Mr Drivel, what about Tancredo, Steve King, and Thad McCooter?

We got some good people. Not many, but we have some.

148

140
Yeah - bickering and in-fighting about the lack of perfection really worked out for us in 2006 and 2008.

I'm as disappointed in the GOP as the next guy/gal - but politics is always about the lesser of two evils.  Pick yer poison.

That's the problem:  They're not the lesser of two evils.  They are exactly. the. frickin. same. of two evils.  The only difference is the MSM can hang it on the GOP when they're in control of the legislative process.

149

You want to know about plan C?

 

Thats where Nancy and I hold  a press conference and accuse republicans of calling us cunts and cocksuckers.

 

How's that for a plan C?

150
Mr Avenger, wasn't the Surge Rumsfeld's idea?

151 Well, if you told me 10 months ago that Sarah Palin would be matching Obama in popularity, I would almost have expected it...

152 Don't need new ideas. What's "old" is new because we haven't used them in sooo long. Apply "old" ideas to new problems. That will work.

Also, get acquaintances to watch Glen Beck even if you don't necessarily like his style. Beck essentially has an afternoon lecture every weekday where he mocks liberalism and ties in solutions via respect for fundamental American values. He books good guests to make conversation timely and applicable to urgent issues.

Beck is the best in the business right now to reeducating via mass media the conservative philosophy.

Disclosure: I do not work for Beck/FOX in any capacity. I do, however, enjoy ogling their non-Beck talent. If that's wrong, I don't wanna be right.

153 Was 144 a sock?

154

Thats where Nancy and I hold  a press conference and accuse republicans of calling us cunts and cocksuckers.

Posted by: Harry Reid at December 11, 2009 02:31 PM (DYJjQ)

Between you and Nancy, which is the cunt?

155

153 Was 144 a sock?

Yeah

156 but it's not an impossibility to see Oregon go red sometime in the near future.

2000: Gore only won by 1.5%

2004: Kerry only won by 4%

2008: Obama gets 57% of the vote in a bad rep year

more counties go red in Oregon too but the counties that go blue are more populist and go for the dems w/ about 60-70% of the vote

Yeah - bickering and in-fighting about the lack of perfection really worked out for us in 2006 and 2008.

I agree, the 3rd party readers now are gonna jump all over that though

157 wasn't the Surge Rumsfeld's idea?

I was referring to the earlier stay small policy.  Staying small was the right thing to do during the suck's soak time once it became clear that you were in fact "in the suck".  To do anything else would have been simply providing more targets for those who would ultimately become allies.

158 The best thing to do is to get conservatives and fiscal libertarians involved in the Republican Party.

Yeah, look how well the RINO cocksuckers in the RNC have treated Palin.  Boy, that's working good.

159

Posted by: TexasJew at December 11, 2009 02:32 PM (dcKUM)

I'm surprised, I'll admit it, that book has really helped her

160
yeah, i know, but I was asking if Rumsfeld was the one who first came up with the surge, or was that all Petraeus' idea?

161 Yeah - bickering and in-fighting about the lack of perfection really worked out for us in 2006 and 2008.

As I recall we ran "big tent" RINOs in 2006 and 2008. How soon we forget our history.

162 the professional sockpuppeteer: "Mr Drivel, what about Tancredo, Steve King, and Thad McCooter?"

All good. Bring 'em aboard. Tancredo kinda disappeared, but I've always been a supporter of his. Without him the anti-illegal immigration issue never would have materialized. He had brass balls. King? How he pulls it off in New York is a tribute to his stamina. McCooter? Young buck feeling his oats and whose persona translates well to the younger, South Park set. A good pick-up.

I'm sure there are a good many ex-military personnel ready to get worked in, too. All this war has surely primed some of them for political office. Some seasoning and tutelage from Tea Party families and the bench will start looking better.

163 If you think they are the same, then you're flyin' too high.  Get closer to the ground, join the grassroots that are trying to take the RNC away from the elitist moderates, and try for the win.

Up in space, you can't see national borders.  Down on the ground, people living within a few miles of each other, but separated by a border, have entirely different sets of rights.  Same in politics.  High altitude surveys make it all look like the same, homogenous cesspool.  Up close, the differences are easy to see.

164
Steve King is from Iowa. You must be thinking of Peter King of upstate NY, who is also not a pussy.

165 Gallup released a poll that was based on Party Identification, by Religiosity, here's the stats to chew on:

Highly Religious

R 49%
D 37%
I 10%

Religious

R 42%
D 44%
I 12%

Less Religious

R 37%
D 48%
I 12%

Not Religious (AP & CJ types)

R 26%
D 56%
I 16%

166 Beck is the best in the business right now to reeducating via mass media the conservative philosophy.

How do we get Beck to stop trying to tell jokes?

That interview with Stossel was painful.
"An' we take your green phone, an' we take my red phone, an' an', it's like, 'Hello Santa Claus!'"

167 How do we get Beck to stop trying to tell jokes cry?

FIFY

168 the professional sockpuppeteer@164,

Yes. That's who I was thinking of. I'm not up on Steve King. I'll need to do some homework there. What's his signature issue, if any? Is he just an all-around good guy?

169 @163 K~Bob

If you think they are the same, then you're flyin' too high.

Heh.  Seriously.  There's a lot that GOPers do or don't do that disappoints the hell out of me, but the democrats are the enemy.  They are doing their damnedest to harm me.

170 Part of the problem here is the issue of the nomination process.  Conservatives lost control of the party organization.  Consider what's just happened in Nevada:

http://tinyurl.com/ychomtp

With McCain, two things went wrong - open primaries (why in Hell would USC allow the UCLA student body select the Trojans' starting line-up), and we allowed the media to select our candidate for us.  The MSM liked McCain, praising him as electable, a "maverick," and so on, using its influence to knock the conservatives out of the primary race, so they could then turn on McCain and paint him as a cranky old extremist once he locked the primary.  What Nevada's conservatives have done, and what we all should do, is take back control of the party at the precinct and state levels.  This will avoid what happened in the NY-23, with ScuzzyFlava getting the nomination.

Doing what Nevada has done avoids splitting the conservatives from the Republicans, which only results in Dem plurality wins.

Any thoughts, friends?

171 I sometimes believe the only way that will happen is if GOOOH succeeds.

Posted by: Rickshaw Jack at December 11, 2009 02:07 PM (nE6Eu)

GOOOH is incredible.  If any M&Ms aren't familiar with it, check it out at that acronym plus dot com.  It aims to replace all 435 members of the house of reps.  The founder has spoken to approx. 100 groups of fed-up voters all over the country (including San Fran!) who've asked him to explain the system.  If you're skeptical, he'd have you convinced in five minutes.  Guaranteed.

172

 Open Question for the Morons

How many Federal  Laws/ Programs have been repealed in say , the last 100 years?

173

The RINOP is dead, Drew. Morte. Finis.

I've heard that " third party vote is a wasted Vote" mantra for a long while. It gives us assholes like the ones we see. Both parties are the same, except on very narrow issues. So yea, let's vote in more McCains, Specters, Snowes, Lotts, Frists, Chafees, Gewt Numnuts and other fools. Dickless male impersonators like Graham. More career-hairdos who call their fellow idiots "esteemed colleague"   The inbred assortment of pervs and trustifarians who've floated to the top of the DC latrine.

When - not IF - the SHTF, folks are gonna go hunting all politicians down with dogs. Clue-bat for ya ... it matters not one whit what the elections do. Obongo's gonna do what he wants, with a Czar system and executive diktat.

The binary-shit system is an impediment to any real representation nowadays. To look within that insular, incestuous enclave is essentially insane. A true Conservative/Constitutional party ? That's a go. Hence the dismissal of the The Party movement by BOTH sides, and the demonstrated foolishness of Dede getting the party nod in NY.

Politicians rightfully fear The People.

And soon enough it'll be demonstrated why.

Prepare accordingly

 

 

174 The Tea Party "movement" is important, but don't forget that:

1) It's not broadly representative of any particular issue group. Some think it's about spending, some think it's about illegal immigrants, some think it's about taxes, some think it's about "throwing the bums out," and so on.  The Republican party electorate needs a Declaration of Independence, signed by some important names, to get the party moving in any meaningful direction. The need the Tea Party on-board with it.

2) It's not as demographically mixed as the Republican base.  So far, it's a decent patchwork, but a patchwork nonetheless.

They also are still pretty disorganized when it comes to supporting anything.  Protesting takes you only so far.  You have to get behind someone, and so far I don't see much of that coming from the Tea Party folks.

175
Steve King, besides looking a lot like Tom Tancredo, is always always in oppostion of the Democrats. He's not a reach-across-the-aisle type. King is articulate and pleasant. He should be our House leader. Boehner is okay, though. Cantor is terrible. Good guy, but he's weak.

176 Right on Ohio Dude!

177
But Peter King, if you remember, was the man who had the balls to make a video during the July 4th holiday outside his district's VFW asking why we're celebrating a pedophile's death instead of celebrating our veterans.

178 Any thoughts, friends?

I smell a whiff of Ron Paul-ism.  Isn't Nevada where the Paulbots tried to shut down the state convention in 2008?

179 Mike,

"Heh.  Seriously.  There's a lot that GOPers do or don't do that disappoints the hell out of me, but the democrats are the enemy.  They are doing their damnedest to harm me."

Exactly.  I should add that flyin' high brings its own rewards.
We just need to be careful about mid-air refueling. Gotta come down sometime!

180

In addition to not doing shit for the environment, the Obama administration is also racist and the hate "undocumented workers".

Bastards!

http://tinyurl.com/ybxwobj

 

181

Let's get Inhofe into a real goddamn man's party

Posted by: Truman North at December 11, 2009 02:16 PM (e8YaH)

You know who else is a "public servant"?  That would be Jason Chafetz, freshman pubbie rep from Utah.  He doesn't think his constituents should have to pay for his DC lodging, so he sleeps on a roll-out bed in his office! 

He was on Beck's radio show this a.m. detailing the $426 billion in pork in the omnibus bill -- and not all of that was put in by dems.

Beck said Chafetz is a source for an inside story coming up in a few weeks on yet more congressional corruption.  Oh, goody!

182 Republicans seem to be in a very good position to pick up more than 4-6 seats next year, maybe even 8-10.  That's assuming the R's hang on to all their seats AND the national committee actually gets its act together. 

But Michael Steele is going to have to stop his silly "White people are afraid of me" crap and actually work to pull the party together at its base.  Unfortunately conservatives are starting to sour on him.

183

152

d'ya notice Megan Kelly is back!!  MMMM MMMM MMM!

Rummy was awesome, loved it when he asked his own questions at his press conferences. He'd finish reporters sentences and on occasion, speak in the 3rd person..The man was brilliant.

 

184 GOOOH is incredible.  If any M&Ms aren't familiar with it, check it out at that acronym plus dot com.  It aims to replace all 435 members of the house of reps.


All that's going to accomplish is throwing out the babies (Paul Ryan, Steve King, Mike Pence will get replaced with people who may or may not be improvements), but the bathwater (Pelosi, Frank, Rangel, McKinney, etc) will stay firmly entrenched, with a bigger seniority gap.

185 I was asking if Rumsfeld was the one who first came up with the surge, or was that all Petraeus' idea?

I don't think the question is as simple as that.  The notion of "going bigger" wasn't a new one and had been pitched by many people previously.  The real question was how to employ those troops if you did "go bigger".  Opinions varied considerably.

I think what Petraeus realized was some added troops would allow for a transition to the COIN approach while not losing ground on other responsibilities.  I also think he realized that the ongoing, albeit ad-hoc, ink blotting strategy being implemented in a few areas by local commanders was essentially identical to traditional COIN even though it had sort of evolved on its own as a "lessons learned in the field" kind of thing.

So...I don't think you can credit "the Surge" to any one specific person per se.  It certainly was Petraeus who realized how to optimize it and tune it to localized conditions.

186 Climategate question at Copenhagen gets a response from Armed Security: (VIDEO) Hopefully Ace sees this!!! I tried to e-mail him...

187 That would be Jason Chafetz, freshman pubbie rep from Utah.  He doesn't think his constituents should have to pay for his DC lodging, so he sleeps on a roll-out bed in his office!


And you want to replace him why?

188 Oop.  McKinney did get replaced.  I meant Jackson-Lee.  I denouce myself.

189

And shouldn't someone remind the Obama administration that it is about time for another show of support for the democratically elected leadership of Iran?

http://tinyurl.com/yb3lzcw

 

190 A Rovian, small batch type, GOTV effort with a rockstar (Sarah) could be difficult to predict.

191 I think our real best chance is the movement afoot to restore the House to the original voter/representative ration that was in the Constitution. Limiting the number of members has allowed them to gerrymander huge districts and become "invisible" to the average voter.

How many people here have ever actually met their congressman? It used to be that a congressman knew every voter in his district and visited them all every two years pressing the flesh. Not so much anymore.

I live in a very conservative area but it is part of an overall gerrymandered district that makes it a guaranteed Democrat win.  If they broke this district up into two or three districts I might could have a conservative congressman.

This solution would also eliminate the "guaranteed" reelection gerrymandering that goes on every 10 years.

192 the professional sockpuppeteer,

Thanks for the info. And yes, I do remember that video. He was the most vocal, by far, in chastising the public's (as in media attention) displaced priorities. A noble move that, while undercovered by the press, surely endeared him to the many more decent Americans at home. And that's why he gets reelected and why we need more unabashed conservatives on the steps rather than sinecured in the Hill.

193 The body politic in the USA is like a truck going too fast, going in to a fishtail on a slick road, lurching from right to left and back again. Next stop, the ditch.

194 Phrase / word association:

Conservatives eat their own... babies.

Republicans... so-called.

Populism... dangerous.

3rd parties... fractionalize.

Millions of poor idiots need... food.

Money... worthless.

Me... gone.

195 Rove and Bush spent eight god damned years governing without the least bit of care that a fucking communist Kenyan or a squishy RINO McAmnesty could occupy the White House after they left.

Those two helped bring disaster down on us conservatives and our country and I will loath those self serving assholes the rest of my days.

spit

196 In our system, you take over the party if you want to change something. Look at what the Stalinists did to the Dems while purist conservatives were out screwing around with their third parties.

Learn from your enemy or join the defeated.

In this country, third party = FAIL!

The only major exception in our history eventually involved a political issue of maximum concern—The Civil War—and a moral issue of maximum concern: slavery. Unless you hope for another such convergence of catastrophe, you have only one choice to make a third party successful: begin the long process of changing the system at the local level. Starting at the national level is an exercise in futility (and that's the positive, uplifting description).

197 dananjcon: "d'ya notice Megan Kelly is back!!"

Is the sky blue? Is Obama red? Is Pelosi a scrunt?

And Rummy knew how to hold class. He just schooled the press pool. I think he's the best at handling a press conference I've ever seen. Right up there with Reagan though I've actually seen more live Rumsfled than Reagan. But, yeah, he was fantastic.

198 In retrospect, I think Bush was doomed before he even took the oath of office the first time.  The media and left autohyped into a frenzy over the Gore thing and never calmed down.

199
You know what else is a disgrace?

How the GOP hasn't said a peep about Franken stealing Norm Coleman's seat. Coleman fought that all by himself. Now, I don't know about you, but it seems like a stolen senate seat, a crucial 41st vote in the Senate, is a damn good point to use to rally the base and raise support.

The Democrats have how many unelected senators in the Senate right now? Plus they have one senator who has no business being there. (No, not Tim Johnson, who is dysfunctional, but, yeah, him, too). Franken should be the GOP's biggest fundraiser for the senate seats up in 2010.

200 Wonder what Karl thinks will happen in TX if KBH wins the primary. I predict a Dem Gov and a DEM Senator unless Perry gets to appoint during the election process.

201

Well we can "wish" for that but until the Republican Party bosses get the message all this voter anger is not going to benefit them. Posted by: Vic

Actually, a viable 3rd party that wins elections is the wishful part.

People who want a change in the GOP would be best served by joining the GOP. It seems pretty self-evident but i'd be willing to put a bet down that the majority of people calling for a 3rd party don't know the name of their precinct captain.

Here's something that might work: organize independently in your state as conservatives, Tea Party, Angry Bastards or whatever. Have representatives join the local GOP orgs and push for change.

 

This is quite likely what Rove is thinking. To the Republican party establishment, some of the biggest failures occurred when third parties split the vote of the Right, either through an alternate candidate (Perot) or apathy (conservatives and McCain). I suspect that the latterexplains the ire that arose from the Party Elders when their annointed candidate in NY-23 was questioned.

In their mind, they provide the focus, and we are supposed to come through with votes and funds. The only revolution that they supported was in 1994, and that was led and partly engineered by the Republican Speaker of the House.

Unless they determine a way to embrace or coopt this movement, they continue to warn of the perils of third party splitters. 

 

Like those scum in the Rodent Liberation Front.

202 Franken will be a 1-term senator.  I think there's probably a 50/50 chance he gets indicted before he faces another election.

203 sockpuppeteer,

You are correct about Coleman/Franken. These RNC folks fumble about and miss every opportunity they are handed.  It's like they need an engraved invitation to address this shzt.  Idiotic.

204 PA, tell me more about indicting Franken?  I don't know about any dirt on him, aside from stealing the fucking election.

205 Blue Hen: "In their mind, they provide the focus, and we are supposed to come through with votes and funds. The only revolution that they supported was in 1994, and that was led and partly engineered by the Republican Speaker of the House."

Perot, the outsider, actually pioneered the voter "tantrum" post-Reagan. Perot's contributions were co-opted after both the Dems and the GOP essentially consolidated their fire against him. The FEC pretty much blockades any embryonic party growth. I consider it an enemy of democracy. The GOP squandered the best opportunity for lasting reform from the Right. A farkin' shame that was. Gingrich et al. were responsible for that failure even though they parlayed that crushing defeat of Leftism into some temporal success.

Subsequent events have not inspired confidence from me in Gingrich. He can keep being a think-tank man and I'll welcome cherry-picking absolute conservative reforms from him, but I'll never trust him with high office again. He porked the chicken one too many times, sadly.

206 Donde es un BanHammer Grande?

207 This is quite likely what Rove is thinking. To the Republican party establishment, some of the biggest failures occurred when third parties split the vote of the Right, either through an alternate candidate (Perot) or apathy (conservatives and McCain).

Perot was a liberal nutbag. The only people I know who voted for him were liberals.

I would not call what happened with McLame "apathy". It was disgust. People did not stay at home because they did not care, they stayed at home because the DID care.

Nope, it is as I said earlier, Rove is playing the "lesser of the evils" card. He thinks they can continue to do that and triangulate a win. Conservatives have nowhere else to go so they will vote for his RINO candidates.

Remember all that strategy was suposed to open up States in the NE for Republicans. States like NY and PA would go R if ran RINO McLame.

Yeah, not only did we NOT win a single blue State but we lost several red States.

208 166 - He's wearing thin with me. Having a sense of humor is one thing but being an embarassing clown is another altogether. Add the teary Christmas Sweater stuff and I'm done for the day. Also, there will always be corruption in politics and there should not be a third party as they only secure wins for the opposition.

209

Posted by: Keith Arnold at December 11, 2009 02:49 PM (Jdtsu)

Wow!  I sent that along to my local Tea Party leader and asked that he FW it to the state Tea Party/Patriot clearinghouse here in VA.  Thanks mucho gusto.

210 Unless they determine a way to embrace or coopt this movement, they continue to warn of the perils of third party splitters. Posted by: Blue Hen

Unless being a 3rd party splitter is actually harmful to both groups, right? But that would just be silly.

There's really nothing at stake, right? Nothing the Dem's could do would actually harm your future or your childrens' future. Nope. No harm from losing every election for the next 2 decades for sure.

211

The GOP squandered the best opportunity for lasting reform from the Right. A farkin' shame that was. Gingrich et al. were responsible for that failure even though they parlayed that crushing defeat of Leftism into some temporal success.

 

I agree. If it ain't in house,or if they cannot coopt it, they want it dead. Another example of this is how debates are covered. It amazes me how the two major parties join ranks to prevent others from appearing on debates or ballots. The Conservative Party of New York o which my parents belonged, is blocked in Delaware.

212 All that's going to accomplish is throwing out the babies (Paul Ryan, Steve King, Mike Pence will get replaced with people who may or may not be improvements), but the bathwater (Pelosi, Frank, Rangel, McKinney, etc) will stay firmly entrenched, with a bigger seniority gap.

Posted by: HeatherRadish at December 11, 2009 03:01 PM (NtiET)

Actually, they've got that covered.  If a district has a wildly popular representative, it's more likely than not that a GOOOH candidate WON'T put forth the challenge -- but as we know, there are more losers than folks we want to keep. 

213

I would not call what happened with McLame "apathy". It was disgust. People did not stay at home because they did not care, they stayed at home because the DID care.

Nope, it is as I said earlier, Rove is playing the "lesser of the evils" card. He thinks they can continue to do that and triangulate a win. Conservatives have nowhere else to go so they will vote for his RINO candidates.

 

An excellent point. What would be a better term for the lack of support/disinclination for Mccain by many Conservatives? And, would the Party leaders use the term apathy or another term?

214

The Democrats took over the House in 2006 largely because of their trumped-up "culture of corruption" and hypocritical fiscal irresponsibility attacks on the Republicans.  They are failing now because they replaced the Republican culture of corruption with a Democrat culture of corruption, and have dpubled down on the fiscal irresponsibility.  In other words, they did not keep their promises to the people.  All Republicans have to do is keep their promises once they regain control. 

1) No earmarks.

2) No giant continuing resolutions or omnibus spending bills.

3) No new government programs or agencies until the budget is balanced.

4) No more bailouts of banks, auto companies, or individuals.

5) Automatic expulsion of any member caught not paying taxes, lying on financial disclosures, having sex with staff members, or paying off campaign contributors with earmarks.

6) Lifetime ban on lobbying by former members of Congress.

 

215 Bretbiert is on Hanity saying he has a scoop that the getmo detaines are going to be moved to an Illinois detention facility.

216
The Democrats have how many unelected senators in the Senate right now? Plus they have one senator who has no business being there. (No, not Tim Johnson, who is dysfunctional, but, yeah, him, too). Franken should be the GOP's biggest fundraiser for the senate seats up in 2010.

Posted by: the professional sockpuppeteer at December 11, 2009 03:14 PM (z37MR)

---------

Off the top of my head:

Kaufman

Burriss

Kirk

Gillibrand

The guy from Colorado who took Ken Salazar's place

217 rockmom,

Add, "No phony reach-across-the-aisle crappy legislation."

Oh, and one more thing, Pass a bill that, for any bill, requires specific language showing where the Constitution supports their right to legislate on the matter at hand.

218

1) No earmarks.

2) No giant continuing resolutions or omnibus spending bills.

3) No new government programs or agencies until the budget is balanced.

4) No more bailouts of banks, auto companies, or individuals.

5) Automatic expulsion of any member caught not paying taxes, lying on financial disclosures, having sex with staff members, or paying off campaign contributors with earmarks.

6) Lifetime ban on lobbying by former members of Congress.

7.) Passage of the Geithner/Rangel act, so that the peasants get the same free ride on tax issues that Geithner got.

8. Defense spending bills are marked, debated and passed seperately.

219 And you want to replace him why?

Posted by: HeatherRadish at December 11, 2009 03:02 PM (NtiET)

See #212.  The GOOOH strategy is to replace someone worth replacing, but technically being able to replace all 435.

220 Vic: "Perot was a liberal nutbag. The only people I know who voted for him were liberals."

Oh man, do we have opposing versions of history. Hard to reconcile here.

I lived in Texas at the time. Every conservative I knew supported him. Every single one. Some voted Republican at the last moment because they "didn't want to waste their vote," but they did support the guy. The "Contract with America" was just enough of a fig for them to go R. Can't say I hung around with any liberals, so I don't know how they leaned. I do remember, though, that there were many pissed voters who were disgusted with government. Not quite the angst as now, but close.

221 "Every history textbook I have ever had that references the Nazi party calls it a right-wing movement." Authoritarianism: You can get there from either the Right or the Left.

222 Donde es As y el co-bobos?

223 @210 Iskandar

Unless being a 3rd party splitter is actually harmful to both groups, right? But that would just be silly.

You can count on me to hold my nose and vote for a RINO for no other reason than to harm my democrat enemies.

There are other voters who either won't do so or do not understand that the democrat party needs to be kept from office.

While you are absolutely correct that a third party will help the other side, the problem is that the "movement" is essentially a force of nature at this point.

It is up to the GOP to embrace this movement enough to prevent it from spawning third-party challenges.

224 Perot ran opn a platform of RAISING taxes! Come on, conservatives do not run on raising taxes.

225

I think Pennsylvanians might finally get rid of Specter, though he has more (political) lives than a cat.

226 I have that problem here in Delaware. Hoffman was appointed to replace Scranton's own Sheriff Biden, and the local powers that be want to set up his son Beau ( I am NOT making up that name) to inherit the seat. The current Rep. is Mike Castle, and he is planning on going for that seat. he is one of the 'log cabin' Republicans, and I don't agree with some of what he does, but I don't see much difference between the older Biden and the younger one, so I'm tempted to ignore primary challengers third parties and all, and support the guy who currently has the best chance of turning the seat.

227 What some , ok, a lot of Republicans do not know, is that their party has been infilitrated by a lot of left leaners or outright Democrats. See NY-23. I was at a Repub. monthly meeting for the first time, and I could not believe the number of people I saw, who I knew were Obama lovers! This was in a small township. The Republicans must clean out the trolls in their own party. Apparently, numbers matter most to their party.

228 "... the GOP hasn't said a peep about Franken stealing Norm Coleman's seat. Coleman fought that all by himself. Now, I don't know about you, but it seems like a stolen senate seat, a crucial 41st vote in the Senate, is a damn good point to use to rally the base and raise support. "

Posted by: the professional sockpuppeteer at December 11, 2009 03:14 PM (z37MR)

The inside story on why no one fought too hard for that debacle is that Pawlenty (aka T-Yawn) was positioning himself for bigger and better things (I think he has the delusion that he could be elected prez), so Coleman said, "No biggie, I'll just run for gov when he resigns."

229 Kelley, electing a republican isn't the be all end all you think it is. Moderates are squishy on too many issues and can be turned by the Dems. This ruins the brand and pisses us off. if we're gonna get Dem policies, we want the Dems to own it completely.

230 Vic: "Perot ran opn a platform of RAISING taxes! Come on, conservatives do not run on raising taxes."

No he didn't. His platform was on the oppressive government spending and the deficits. If he was about "raising taxes," it was as a function of reducing the deficit and the debt; but he wanted government shrunk as an absolute. He was right then and he would be right now if the GD government would reduce its size and scope.

Furthermore, and on another tangent, he was as pro-military as is possible. By definition not a neoliberal position. No freakin' way was the guy a liberal.

231 And just to be clear, 3rd party runs? Just Say No!

Bullshit.  If the choice is between Dem and Rino, the Libertarian gets my vote, I don't care if it's a close race or not.  The Republicans had better show me a good reason why I should vote for them, and "we suck less than Democrats" doesn't cut it.

Otherwise we get a RINO majority that votes just like the Dem majority, so what's the fucking difference?

Of course, where I live there's no such thing as a close race anyway.

232 I hope Ace isn't working on a 10,000 word treatise on how grammatical errors are ruining his blog. And that they're racist.

233

I hope Ace isn't working on a 10,000 word treatise on how grammatical errors are ruining his blog. And that they're racist.

 

Amen.(that exclamation should NOT be construed as being hostile to our atheistic bretheren and cistern). I was on the banhammer 4K last night, and that wore me out.

234 As an addendum to #230, recall that it was Reagan's deficit spending that allowed the US to escape the debacle of Carter. The problem was that the Democrat Congress kept increasing the spending and, consequently, the debt. It was the looming economic disaster (and some exposed House corruption) that finally awakened the constituency to the continuing deficit problem.

235 232 -- Ace is in talks with some publishing house on a sequel.

236

Ace is in talks with some publishing house on a sequel.

 

Who do you think will play us in the movie adaptation? I want either Sam Elliott or Kate Beckinsale to portray me.

237 Ian McDiarmad has agreed to play me in the adaptation.  That's some sweet start power

238

The anger and distruct of that the Republican party earned is not going to be swept aside by broad pronouncements:  "3rd party candidates focusing on spending will be a disaster that results in Democrats surviving. Complain all you want about the two major parties but that's how the system works and I'm not interested in electing more Democrats to prove a point or something."

I think in the house race my vote is going to whomever I best think meets my requirments.  If that is a conservative or libertarian then fine.  Why should I beleive the Republican leadership is anything other than Democrat with different special interests?   Best man for the job period. 

 

239 It is up to the GOP to embrace this movement enough to prevent it from spawning third-party challenges. Posted by: MikeO

More importantly, it's up to us. It's up to us to join our local chapters of the GOP and make it happen. Conservatives need to make it happen and change the beast from inside.

As an aside, we be better not to approach this as an 'us v. them' situation because if that's the rubric, then we're bound to split the party. If we keep thinking that we conservatives don't have to do anything, we're well and truly fucked.

Organize, invade, and take it over.

The radical left remapped the Democrat party in the 70's so why can't we remap the GOP now?

240 PA, tell me more about indicting Franken?

I just think Franken is dumb enough and so full of hubris that he'll do something so egregiously criminal it can't be ignored.  He's got 5 years left to work on it.

241

Organize, invade, and take it over.

The radical left remapped the Democrat party in the 70's so why can't we remap the GOP now?

 

 

Good points.

Now. Who is going to play you in the movie of 'Son of Banhammer'?

242 If the GOP is worried about splitting the damn party, then they can run me some candidates I want to vote for.  That's all.  I'm not going to endorse failure.

243 so why can't we remap the GOP now?

I wouldn't discount the possibility of infiltrating the democrats via DINO's during primaries either.  There are some districts where this could be effective.

The sword can cut both ways.

244 OTJohn Nolte has his review of Avatar up over at BigHollywood.Nolte had a pretty great blog of his own"Dirty Harry's Place"before he unmasked and later went to BH.

245 I see it was panned because it looks like the average Hollywood blockbuster.

246 If we get more RINOs into congress, the best they will accomplish is to slow down the Dims. RINOs simply do not have the balls to fight the Dims, they will not attempt to rollback anything, they never have and never will.

What RINOs will end up doing, however, is give the Dims bipartisan cover on their wish list, so that the Dims can use the RINOs as meatshields. This is what has been going on for a very long time and has badly damaged the Republican brand. This is why so many of us are fed up with the "lesser of two evils" spiel. It hasn't worked whenever and wherever it was done. Let the Dims own their agenda, if they want to ruin America, let them do it in their own fking name.

247 Yeah, fine. The Repubs need to run the right candidates.  No newsflash there.

That's always been what the hoi polloi have wanted.  They've just never had the voice they have now.  But that doesn't excuse the third-party ship jumpers.  That's a game for the lazy.

I'm an independent, I'm not uppercase 'C' Conservative, and I do not send money to the RNC.  I do occasionally vote for Libertarians and even the rare conservative Dem.  (Especially the conservative Dem).  But we have a 2-party system.

We will continue to have it until the local rules, district.by.friggin'.district are changed.

So I caucus with you conservatives because the Left must be defeated.  But those of you who go lazy and flirt with third parties are wasting the efforts of those of us who are doing the hard work of reforming the parties we have.

I didn't say you are wasting your vote.  But you are wasting the hard work of those who are trying to save this country.

248 Anyone see the leaked justice department memo that they're moving the detainees in Gitmo to Illinois? Pretty crazy if you ask me. Scoop is over at BigGovernment.

To make it on topic....that should help our chances in 2010.

249 Even Newt Gingrich got shot down in flames when he tried to smooze the leftist media. They gave him him just enough rope to hang himself. He still hasn't learned that lesson. He still believes that any Republican elected is better than no Republican.  Notice that I did not the word Conservative.

250 Damn you all, I'm not voting for a weak sister who fits in either party.

251 Vote for whoever the fzck you want.  Support that FAIL!

252 BTW, if this steaming pile of healthcare legislation wins the day, and we become France in a frappe, then we will probably be 25 years or less from another Civil War.  So maybe then the third party will have a chance.

253 Notice, I didn't say squat about third party, I just won't vote for RINO. If that means I cannot vote due to no candidates I can support, so be it. My vote ain't cheap, damnit.

254 Nice! Dems calling AGW non-believers "tea-baggers."

Man, it sure is cold in here.

255 The problem with the GOP is that they spend so much time in DC they start acting like dems.  They forget about real America.  They one known as "fly over country".
They deal with the MSM, Hollywood  celebrities, and ivory tower professors.  They have no idea what the middle class and the poor have to deal with.  When have you seen politicians in poor neighborhoods and small towns, or even small cities?  One without visiting for media hype?

256 At the national level, I'll vote for a leftist RINO before I'd vote for a leftist Dem.  Either way, I'll vote.

Witholding your vote at the national level doesn't help whatever cause you support.  Only the local level matters when it comes to changing the landscape.

Soros understood that, and literally bought grassroots change.  It transformed the Dem party like putting wasabi on your jelly doughnut.

257 Let the Dims own their agenda, if they want to ruin America, let them do it in their own fking name.

Posted by: KG at December 11, 2009 04:21 PM (S8TF5)

Which is why Dingy Harry is always whining about the Repubs thwarting his health care agenda, even though his side has all the votes it needs.  I still say the Repubs ought to go on Christmas recess -- in a very public way -- and make it clear to everyone that all this douchebaggery is solely on the dems.  The pubs need to call the dems' bluff.

258 "Here's something that might work: organize independently in your state as conservatives, Tea Party, Angry Bastards or whatever. Have representatives join the local GOP orgs and push for change."

That is a great idea and is happening here. If they come up with some candidates, great. If they go third, we're all in trouble.

Buto what is a RINO?  Prolife or not?  Because I see a fundamental disagreement within the party, local and national, that could cause a third-party *event* before 2012.

259

like putting wasabi on your jelly doughnut.

Ewwwwwwwwwwwwwwww

260 RushBabe has an interesting idea.  Me, I'm wonderin' when we get our Kennedy-esque, "lie after lie after lie" moment on the teevee.  So far, every soundbite I've heard from the Repubs is yawneriffic.

261 230  AnonymousDrive  That, and he made the Cold War end.  Yes, we spent much money on national defense, but the result was better than the cost  of a war.  Now the Navy spends more time on aiding the world in times of need.  From hurricanes to typhoons, to earth quakes.

262

Posted by: cassandra in MT at December 11, 2009 04:46 PM (GdalM)

RINO, Repub in Name Only, is pro-abortion.  But with all the pressure being brought to bear on the GOP from conservatives, this will probably be item #1 on the conservative purity test.  It may already be.  I saw the list but forgot it.

263

Every history textbook I have ever had that references the Nazi party calls it a right-wing movement.

Funny how the National Socialist German Worker's Party can be classified as "right wing". Race hatred and genocide are not Republican Party policy.

However, total control of labor, industry, society, law enforcement and the judiciary by an elite from a single party who terrorize the citizenry and ban any opposition certainly fits the general policy of a certain political philosophy. If the jackboot fits...

 

264 Don't forget that Democrats are planning on bringing up immigration reform next year so that they can try to smear Republicans as racist again.

265

264, yes and the country is just clamoring to normalize illegal immigrants at a time of double digit employment. Sounds like a winning strategy to me.

How many swords does Zero expect House and Senate Dems to fall on for him?

266 "However, total control of labor, industry, society, law enforcement and the judiciary by an elite from a single party who terrorize the citizenry and ban any opposition certainly fits the general policy of a certain political philosophy. If the jackboot fits..."

That reminds me. Y'all have gotta read this "review" of A Muppet Christmas Carol by John Nolte over at BigHollywood.

Excerpt:
"When we first meet Scrooge he’s a cold-hearted liberal. Like Barack Obama and Joe Biden he doesn’t give to private charity. He chooses instead to condemn the fate of the poor to a cold, dispassionate government — work houses, poor houses…"

267 Holy Piltdown, Batman! It's another smoking gun buried in the "raw" data.

Checkout how they massaged the raw data for surface temps at one station. Anthony has other example(s) of this malfeasance.

With nifty blink-comparator goodness!

268

At Thanksgiving I was talking to my family about a possible Republican/Conservative resurgence in Congress in 2010. If that happens, to the extent of taking back part or even all of Congress, does that make it easier for Obama to win a 2nd term? The voting public seems to like divided govt. and going from major control by one party to similar control by another might be something they want to avoid. Of course it might just be the media likes to trumpet divided govt. when it is possible that liberals might lose power and too many people go along. Assuming Congress does change in 2010 who can run against the Democrat in 2012 and avoid the divided govt. talking point?

269 "But with all the pressure being brought to bear on the GOP from conservatives, this will probably be item #1 on the conservative purity test. "

#262,  I'm with you, but am seeing a fundamental disagreement (duh) within the GOP out here in flyover.  That and gay marriage of course.  We risk losing the middle or indies.  It's not a slam dunk..just sayin.   I believe it is in the GOP platform and the so called moderate R's ought to know that by now.   Right now people get along by not talking about it.

I guess that's one of the reasons so many people say they're independent.

270
"Republicans will have a target-rich environment next year. We are once again in a GOP ascendancy, sparked by talented, energetic challengers."--Karl Rove

"My biggest objection is not to what isn't true about the claim that the right is the handmaiden to big business, it's to what is true. Too many Republicans think being pro-business is the same as being pro-market. They defend the status quo against bad reforms and think they've defended economic freedom. The status quo stinks. And the sooner Republicans learn that, the sooner they'll deserve to win again."--Jonah Goldberg

2010 RNC needs to learn Goldberg's point. Promote the conservative platform that presents good reforms to counter the rotten status quo of corruption. (Enable interstate life insurance policy availability, stop the Medicare fraud, make transparent history of physicians' practice to include malpractice litigation, and cap awards per law suit to meet patient needs without excess). If candidates can not represent responsible small and large business interests with a GOP codified reform of current legislation (rescinding federal mandates and PC), they'll make as easy a target to foes as their foes will provide in the target-rich campaign environment.

271 Kbob, voting for RINO at the national level doesn't help whatever cause you believe in either.

272 Kbob, voting for RINO at the national level doesn't help whatever cause you believe in either.

Posted by: KG at December 11, 2009 05:41 PM (S8TF5)

If it helps you live another day to fight, it damn well does. Except at the local level (and this could work at the State level in many states), abstaining or going third party always helps your opponent.

Always.

273 Don't forget that Democrats are planning on bringing up immigration reform next year so that they can try to smear Republicans as racist again.
Posted by: JohnJ

We must grab the PC bull by the horns in order to tie it down.

Obama's only transparency in government to date has been to enable terrorists.

We must hold this Administration and Congress to the fire for disrespecting the unalienable and Constitutional Rights of American Citizens, misappropriating those rights to aliens who do not legally reside in the US.

The American taxpaying citizens should launch class action law suits against our Congress for misappropriating their responsibilities, legislating unconstitutional laws, and mishandling tax funds; and against our President for disregarding contract law, rule of law, and Constitutional Law as he breaks trust with Americans by illegally usurping the powers of the Legislative Branch to spend tax funds independent of Congress and against the voice of the people. Aliens who are in the US illegally are without Constitutional standing, and it will take another class action lawsuit to force the Supreme Court to settle that matter.

All of the responsibilities and costs of CITIZENSHIP need promotion, educating citizens to remember that we citizens are equal under Constitutional Law, the supreme law of the land. Only demanding responsibility from citizens can we enjoy the benefits of citizenship.

274 Not that I think human nature has changed in the congress since Reagan's time, but what's been different is the horrendous lack of leadership.  This is where Palin comes in.  I think she'll shame them into getting their minds right.

275 Look folks, it's really a simple logic exercise here.

A) We can't change the nature of a 2-party system by voting for another party in national elections.  (The only exception to that rule cost 800,000 lives).

B) The history of national contests involving significant third-party candidates shows that the major opponent wins. Every.damn.time. Believe me, Dobbs knows this.  If he runs, then damn him, too.
[Major opponent: the third party is always very close in ideals to one existing major party. The other major party becomes the major opponent.]

C) Abstaining from voting on purity principles could cost you, your children, and even the fabric of the nation. (Cotton, right? Where was I?).  Even McCain would have been a better choice last time.  Maybe the Repubs needed to have their noses rubbed in it.  So far they appear not to notice.

So abstaining or voting third party nationally doesn't help you one bit.  It doesn't help the country. It doesn't send a message. At least not one anybody will bother with. Perot's campaign changed zero minds, sent zero messages, and cost us wins.

Get angry, but do something at the local level. At the national level, you make the smart play, not the idealist play.

And Local Level is how you flush out the RINOs.  You can't even budge them at the national level.  Newt and Gomer still show up on FOX every freakin' week.  McCain still gets the call from Hannity.

That's all the proof you need.

276 BTW.  One of the best things you can do for the country is to vote for Libertarians for your local school board.  Also for judges, tax-assessors, drain commissioners, sheriff, county supervisor, etc.

THAT makes a difference.

277

K~Bob is right on target here. I'll just add some detail to his argument. Local elections serve two purposes: 1) they're the farm team for state and national elections; and 2) focusing on solving problems at the local level starves the ever-growing central government from finding problems to "solve" by growing larger. Focus on getting the best Libertarian/Classical Liberal candidates possible for your local offices, even if it's a seemingly insignificant election.

Furthermore, screaming about "teaching the national party a lesson" is silly. You can teach an individual a lesson. You can't teach an amorphous blob a lesson by staying home. They don't care and won't learn the right lesson anyway. You have to build from the bottom up.

278 Oops.

279 I'm not about "teaching the national party a lesson". I'm just not going to vote for a RINO.

280 Rove, what a prophet.

And by prophet I mean utter disaster.

With him back in charge? Bring on the third party, and the fourth, and the fifth...

I kid, partially.

281 Fuck a bunch of RINOs.

I am sick and tired to death of the same left leaning, right wing liberal, elitist, east-coast, country-club, Rockefeller Republicans holding the party hostage by sniffing down their nose and saying "If you put another one of those ... uncouth ...conservatives ....on your ticket, I will vote Democrat."

Well, they put the RINO on the ticket in 2008.  And those motherfuckers voted for Chicago Jesus anyway.

How many goddamn years - no, not years,  Decades.  Fucking DECADES  have we had the smoke blown up our asses about "Uh huh.  We're getting to that.  One more election cycle.  One more compromise.  Then you'll see action.  Why - we PROMISE to bring it to a vote."

Yeah.  And vote it down.  Contract with America, anyone?

No more.

Show me the money.  It is long past time to fish or cut bait.  since 1994 there was the chance to do things.  For six years - both houses and the White house.  Nothing.  Zip.  Zilch.  Tax and spend and spend and spend.  Capitulate, roll over, plant lips firmly on the Donk's sphincter, and let them have their way.

And what?  If I vote third party, the Dems are going to have their way?  They've been doing it since Reagan.  Even before, in spite of Reagan.

What is the difference?  I don't vote for "R."  It gets me squat.  Almost 30 years of squat.  I've been fooled more than once or twice.

Stop nominating pussies.

282

What is the difference? I don't vote for "R." It gets me squat. Almost 30 years of squat. I've been fooled more than once or twice.

Your problem is that you only vote (or don't vote, as the case may be) for "R." Voting is not enough. You need to be involved in who you—and everyone else—gets the opportunity to vote for. That happens in local races where people gain the experience and connections to work their way up to higher offices. If all you think about is who to vote for in state and national elections, you've already lost.

Stop nominating pussies.

I say: stop grooming pussies for higher office by not being involved. You do the nominating: by not fighting within the local and state party for the best people. Inaction is the best way to end up with pussies.

283 Something I forgot: Reagan won the votes of hardcore Conservatives and Libertarians who believed in his agenda. But he also won the support of lackadaisical moderates and casual observers. Those who are half-hearted will vote for a strong Conservative candidate. Those who are Conservative will not vote for a half-hearted candidate. So work to make sure only the best candidates reach that level and you're guaranteed victory.

284 If that happens, to the extent of taking back part or even all of Congress, does that make it easier for Obama to win a 2nd term?

If the Republicans capture sizable numbers in Congress, Obama winning a second term won't mean a hell of a whole lot, especially if the Republicans manage to find it within themselves to stop confirming that they're the "Stupid Party". They can do the exact same thing to Obama that Democrats did to GWB, and fling it all back into the Democrats' faces when the they complain.

285 "If all you think about is who to vote for in state and national elections, you've already lost."

Reminds me, another tactic is to build a strong coalition somehow.  I make fun of the freepers all the time, but they are at least forming a coalition of anti-RINO activism.

Of course, the brand of purism they practice is self-limiting.  But at least they are doing something substantial.

286 laptop battery
laptop ac adapter
handbag