1 We already know Mann lies and manipulates data, why would we trust him about emails?

2 The poor dear....I'm sure his (rapidly dwindling) faith-based pseudoscientific cult of AGW will still allow him to bandy about his moral superiority anyway.

3 All of science's credibility is at stake? I think we'll just leave this to the cables.

4

Looking at tree rings for worldwide climate data. A total of three trees as the sample?

No increase of temperature around 1000 AD?

What a crock of shit.

If he were in my science, we'd have kicked his ass out.

Penn State needs to kick this turd out the door.

5 I don't mean to offend any Mormons, but does anyone else see the similarities between the CRU's behavior and that South Park episode about Joseph Smith? They're always writing "deniers" off as religious nuts, but there's something dumbdumbdumbdumbdumb about the faith they put into researchers who hide declines, attack colleagues, throw out years of data, etc.

6 It ain't called Mann-made global warming for nothing.

7 OK, Prof. Mann. You are clean as the freaking snow. Now, let's see your fucking raw data and the code for your bullshit models.

8 How is Little Red Footballs going to explain this finger pointing? 

9 I'll show him what to do with a hockey stick

10

So they are feeding on dead bodies.  Should we point out that Al Gore could sustain a mid-sized city of cannibal meta-scientists?

Like I said - I'm a giver.

11 Penn State needs to kick this turd out the door.

After they revoke his Mann card, of course.

12 Pajamas Media is all over this story as well.

13 7 It ain't called Mann-made global warming for nothing.

Posted by: MDr at December 03, 2009 05:07 PM (ucq49)

I see what you did there.

14 Man Made Global Warming, never heard of it.

15 Is there any human trait more repulsive; more "slap that look off your fat face" worthy than smugness?

Is there any type of human more smug and begging to be smacked than the American liberal when he's talking about "the planet"?

Smack away, my friends. We were right all along, just like we were right about  the Ice Age, DDT, acid rain, the hole in the o-zone layer, overflowing land-fills, yadda yadda, ad nauseum.

16 NONTROVERSY!!

The MSM is properly getting to the bottom of the Tiger Woods story, and the infallibility of SCIENCE is intact!

If you want important stories, come see my latest photo and buy your bicycle accessories through great deals on Amazon on my banner ads.

17 Nothing to see here.  Just move along.

18

Walrus Rex,

"How is Little Red Footballs going to explain this finger pointing?" 

 By banning anyone who brings it up.  

19 Even some of the scientists involved in ClimateGate are now acknowledging that this is a problem. Will the lefty blogs keep insisting that there's nothing to see here?

20 It is, of course, only a matter of time before the MSM has to acknowledge not all is right in Global Warming Land. It's fascinating to watch the days go by, and wonder when they will at last "discover" the scientific scandal of the century...

21

Is the media still blacking out this story?

Newsbusters is running a counter at the top of their front page.  Twelve days and counting.  But I read in the associated article there had been one story, I think, by ABC.

22 I think he's got some wind up his azzz........

23 Please end the abuse of cameras by nutty bloggers. Free the Nikons!

24
lots of research exist to prove man-made global warming exist.

Really?  We better subpeona it before it gets destroyed, too.

25 Mann is going all in.  He's betting his career, and possibly his liberty, that there aren't any smoking guns in the emails that haven't been dumped out yet.

26

Mann's data "massaging" required to "hide" MWP and the Little Ice Age has him as a can't miss to win this years Jenna Jameson's best tricks award.

Take the time to watch the vid link below.  It'll put you on a better footing when battling the Alarmist.  There's a lot more where that came from.

 

http://tiny.cc/FinnClimVideo

 

27 Michael? Michael, why are you shoving me under this bus? Michaelllllllll!

28 Is the media still blacking out this story?

According to Small Dead Animals, "much of the Canadian media broke radio silence on Climategate today."

29 5

Penn State needs to kick put this turd out the door in a paper sack, place it on the front door step of the White House and light it on fire!.

Posted by: TexasJew at December 03, 2009 05:06 PM (NvtVj)

FIFY

30 All science is at stake because of the obvious parallels between the way scientists approach GW and the way they approach psychology, ethnic studies, Darwinism, archaeology, and any other "soft" science.  Pretty much the only time scientists obey the scientific method anymore is in physics and chemistry.

31 I'm telling this is just the tip of the burg. There are a number of so called settled science hoaxes out there. The top of my list are the lipid hypothesis(cholesterol causes heart disease), animal fats(saturated fats) are deadly, and a diet high in fiber is good for you. All are based on junk science but became the common wisdom even though there is a pile of studies that contradict them.

32
"Hacked" emails?

Public F'in Money, Public F'in Emails.

33 Oh, people can come up with statistics to prove anything, Ace. 14% of people know that.

34

This is really funny when you think about it.  You were talking about watching the psychology play out, or something like that.  Well, this is part of it.  And this is exactly what one would expect from a reptile-brained asshole like Mann.  All along, he and Jones have been smashing the papers and dashing the careers of others--anyone who threatened them.  This?  This is just more of the same.  It's survival, baby.  The only difference is the attack is aimed close to home. 

Measured words and laying low would be the smart thing right now, to see how things are going to play out.  But he's already mounting a backstabbing defense.  Fun-nay.  Popcorn?

35

  @14  "I see what you did there."

Just don't tell Katie "cougar" Couric.

 

36 I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Climate models on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I've watched e-mails glitter in the dark near the Tannhauser Gate. All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in the rain. Time to die.

37 WUWT has a bunch of stuff happening today.

I think this turdball is slowly starting to roll downhill, sweeping up more turds as it goes.

As the Anchoress said, if AGW blows up, it blows up some people's entire world view.

38 Ace, why you keep trying to do sex to me???

39

Walrus Rex,

"How is Little Red Footballs going to explain this finger pointing?" 

 By banning anyone who brings it up.  

I wish he'd ban me, I'm tired of the atrocities he's committing with me

40 Re: #20

You're right.

We also had just ten years left to save the planet in 1988. Remember that?

Apparently I'm typing this from one of the rings around Uranus.

41 Hansen at NASA has failed to release his data for years. I also read Hansen may be the person who leaked the the East Anglican info.

42 Green on green violence is a tragic thing.

Pass the popcorn.

43 a diet high in fiber is good for you.

It's not?

44 I wish he'd ban me, I'm tired of the atrocities he's committing with me

Posted by: Charles Johnson's Camera at December 03, 2009 05:19 PM

Stop your bitching, at least you don't have the full weight of his sweaty ass pressing on you

45 Apparently I'm typing this from one of the rings around Uranus.

Posted by: Spud at December 03, 2009 05:20 PM (iaMr2)

Leave my anus alone!

46 Out here in Californistan, our awesome governor today announced a brilliant and immensely expensive "plan B" for saving the state in the event that AGW cannot be stopped in time.  Even though the state is teetering on the brink of financial ruin and AGW is total crap.  Way to go, Arnold!!!

47 Is the media still blacking out this story?

RACIST!!!!

48 Media Matters is out there saying "Mann's trick" is actually nothing more than a way of taking the tree ring data and turning into temperature data.

MM doesn't appear to see the problem with this.

49 I wonder if the grandkids will believe us when we tell them we lived in an age when people still believed in AGW?

50 49 I wish he'd ban me, I'm tired of the atrocities he's committing with me

Posted by: Charles Johnson's Camera at December 03, 2009 05:19 PM

Stop your bitching, at least you don't have the full weight of his sweaty ass pressing on you
Posted by: Charles Johnson's Bicycle Seat at December 03, 2009 05:22 PM

You don't want to know what I've had smeared on me while he's reading
 andi sullivan's blog

51 Can't wait to hear the media when Obama goes to Copenhahgen. Yah, suuure.

52 So now the question becomes.  Is their religion more powerful than their self preservation?  Will the Climate Scientists involved in this turn on eachother to save any possible credibility they might have and risk the destruction of their theories.  Or will they circle the wagons and fall on their swords/go down with the sinking ship?

53 @35 RobD

All are based on junk science but became the common wisdom even though there is a pile of studies that contradict them.

McGovern cursed us with the Food Pyramid in the late '70s because he was pissed enough about Tricky Dick's kicking the crap out of him in '72 that he sought revenge on the entire country by creating an epidemic of adult-onset diabetes.

His roots were in farming, and what better way to help farmers than convince people to eat the stuff that our food is supposed to eat?

(I'm being a hyperbolic dick.  McGovern was a WWII hero.)

54 I just realized something...

Global Warming IS man made!  It's pure fiction made up in the minds of these idiots!

55

"I wonder if the grandkids will believe us when we tell them we lived in an age when people still believed in AGW?"

We could tell them, but it's gonna make our children look awfully stupid.

56

MM doesn't appear to see the problem with this.

So are we to believe that the word "trick" gets thrown around scientific circles all the time?  They don't use words like "method" or "process" any more?

Huh.

57 One can only hope that Phil Jones fires back at Mann and a circular firing squad ensues, but I doubt they are that stupid.

Is the media still blacking out this story?

I heard the local radio newsreader fire off a blurb about Climategate (he didn't call it that) for the first time today. He quickly described what happened and that there was an investigation into possible misreporting of data/ overestimating the effect of global warming.

It's not much, but it's something. This channel reaches a LOT of people, and their national news blurbs come from CBS News .

58

That sock gave me a kroner.

59

Don't forget about that jackass, Hansen - over at NASA, - pulling a Regan MacNeil headspin, (aka The Exorcist).

Pathetic, the whole lot.

60

Penn State needs to kick this turd out the door.

Posted by: TexasJew at December 03, 2009 05:06 PM (NvtVj)

Fat chance.  Like most collidges, PSU is a hotbed of lefty lunacy.

And folks?  Global warming is back on again.  Turns out that the ozone hole that was going to kill us all in the 80s has been fixed, and now its...contributing to global warming!!

61 Charles Johnson is in full blown counter attack mode but the best he can do is link to meaningless little science blogs.It appears that the few remaining old timers over there that have been able to hold their noses and keep posting in the comment threads have finally had enough with his insane defense of these frauds.
I remember when if Chuckles the Clown showed up once in the comment section of any given thread it was unusual,but hell if you look now he is the author of every other comment.

62

"And respect me damnit! I'm a Senator, I worked hard for the title!"

The old saying goes - women get minks the same way minks get minks.

Double that for politicians.

63 I'm still holding with the theory that the MSM doesn't know how to cover this story without walking back a near decade of reporting based on trusting these fuckers.

Maybe if Tiger Woods talked about it.

64 O/ T: Andrew Berman has an interesting take on the White House party crashers, saying we should call them "undocumented party guests" because, yes, they were at the party illegally, but they were at the party. They may not have had a ticket, but they got inside. Sound familiar?
http://tinyurl.com/yclplzx

65 Can't wait to hear the media when Obama goes to Copenhahgen. Yah, suuure.

Posted by: Glen Beck at December 03, 2009 05:25 PM (gbCNS)

Wasn't it Copenhagen where they told him to shove Chicago up his ass?

66

The sidebar part that says "Great Sex Tips" or the ones with the hippos? (And, boy, I hope they're not from the same company.)

67 As I've said on my newscast in the past, "Isn't global warming pretty much settled?" That statement and my good looks ought to shut you all up.

68

The Wall Street Journal notes that all of science's credibility is at risk, should scientists attempt to cover this up.

I wonder why they would make such a statement or try to take such a position.  Seems silly.

69 Hell, Rasmussen says 59% already suspect these "scientists" are making their shit up, Venkman-style.

Once we allowed soft-scientists and social-scientists to call themselves "scientists", it was all downhill. It's funny how the left must use the term "African-American" but jumps to "immigrant" for 'illegal alien' and to "scientist" for every joke of a social scientist.

I think the state of academia is all summed up in one story: Cornel West was one of the very few University Professors at Harvard, and Harvard and Princeton spent an inordinate amount of time fighting over who would get the retard on staff. Meanwhile, West has never done or written anything of value, at all - though he did write a cute article about how sociologists have to write articles that offer more than trivialities.

We really needed more Sokals to tear the joke departments and fields apart ... but instead, universities are brimming with them, these days.

Enviro-wacko studies is just where a lot of the left went, since they saw more power in using that soft-science to achieve their ends. But they have turned it into nothing more than sociology with some not-so-clever computational sleight of hand.

70 Posted by: bulwark at December 03, 2009 05:31 PM

I think the evidence against the "scientists", the CRU, IPCC, AGW in general, etc. is so great that people are realizing that their credibility is on the line. There is still a window in which to say "I was duped by the bad data", but it's rapidly closing. Soon there will be only the howling holdouts and perpetual malcontents.

71

So are we to believe that the word "trick" gets thrown around scientific circles all the time?  They don't use words like "method" or "process" any more?

Huh.

I've always maintained that a highly advanced technological society would be indistinguishable from magic, or something.

72 Venkman made shit up?

73 MikeO,
If you look at my list above all the bad stuff comes from animal products(except palm and coconut oil got caught up in the saturated fat=death crap) and the good stuff(fiber) comes from plants. Well if you look at who the scientist are who have pushed this junk science on us they are mostly vegetarians or vegans. We can trust them right? They don't have any bias do they?     

74 To really win the 'Prisoner's Dilemma' game, you and your co-conspirators need to share a sense of a trust and/or selflessness.

The problem with that is that those who find themselves in that situation usually have a serious lack of both.

So everyone loses.

Well. Everyone except Orville Reddenbaker.

75 @76

Nope.  Arthur C. Clarke

76 So are we to believe that the word "trick" gets thrown around scientific circles all the time? They don't use words like "method" or "process" any more?

Posted by: Natalie Gulbis at December 03, 2009 05:27 PM (RMg6E)

Actually, mathematicians often use the word "trick" to indicate a very clever way of solving a problem. The question is what the problem is that needs solving. In the CRU emails, the problem was that the proxy data fell apart when there were real measurements to compare it to. The "trick" employed was in order to hide the problems with the proxy data they were basing much of their nonsense on.

77 80 @76

Nope.  Arthur C. Clarke

Fuck you my quote was peer-reviewed.

78 54 I wonder if the grandkids will believe us when we tell them we lived in an age when people still believed in AGW?

Posted by: lincolntf at December 03, 2009 05:24 PM (7XkqZ)

When I was a kid back in the late 60s or early 70s I remember being shocked when reading about a Stalinist "scientist" who claimed that he could grow bigger produce by first freezing the seeds or something.   Stalin supported this guy for decades and wasted a huge amount of rubles in support of this pseudoscience.  I remember thinking that could never happen in our country.  Now, I am sure, that huge amount of rubles is next to nothing in comparison to the huge stack of dollars we've flushed away in pursuit of this nonsense.

79 They're always writing "deniers" off as religious nuts, but there's something dumbdumbdumbdumbdumb about the faith they put into researchers who hide declines, attack colleagues, throw out years of data, etc.

Posted by: Blackford Oakes at December 03, 2009 05:06 PM (DtTM9)

What bothers me most is that with all this that is known to have happened, even people with just a passing understanding of what science is are willing to accept all their BS as the truth. And of course, the MSM actively covering up the story.

80 Day 12

81

One can only hope that Phil Jones fires back at Mann and a circular firing squad ensues, but I doubt they are that stupid.

Fookin' aye.

82

I know that Bwarney Frwank  is a sock because the real one would beg you to play with it, to use it and abuse it, just keep it in the dark about illegal drugs and prostitution rings.

Buzzion,

I think a bunch of scientists are going to jump ship once it's safe to do so (which is why I think this was leaked and not hacked), but it's going to take releases in other locations, like the New Zealand, to bring the fracture.  Once it looks to be safe to become a heretic/atheist in the global warming cult, we'll probably hear a bunch of stories on the inner workings of the cult.  With the current blackout in the MSM (their reputation is bound up with the cult), many scientists are probably waiting for a safer landing before jumping at this time.

83 Well if you look at who the scientist are who have pushed this junk science on us they are mostly vegetarians or vegans. We can trust them right? They don't have any bias do they?

A diet high in fiber is good for you.  Even if a bunch of hippie vegans say it is.

Maybe you're taking the additional qualifying statements that usually accompany the factual claim that a high fiber diet is good for you.  Those usually sound like this.

"A high fiber diet is good for you.  So stop slaughtering animals because they aren't high in fiber."

84 Man-made science

85 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Keep making a mountain out of this molehill you idiots.

Al Gore has a Nobel Peace prize. I'll take his word over the words of a couple of low-level lab technicians gossiping at work on their e-mail server.

The debate is over. The science is settled. Mankind is killing our planet and you hateful Neanderthals just love it, don't you? It means you can make more money no matter how many cute baby seals have to die, doesn't it you greedy pigs?

That's all that matters to you. Money. You don't care about your grandchildren's future.

Well I hate your filthy money! That's why I don't have any!

I totally meant to be poor and unsuccessful . . . to save the environment!

Come to think of it, I'm a lot like the fat girl in high school who didn't get asked to the prom and suddenly announces she's a lesbian.

86 Don't listen to that hack Judge Napalitano on Beck right now. The network has to temper  my hard news with pure entertainment.

87

Professor Michael Mann promotes global warming.

Director Michael Mann made a film called Heat.

Coincidence? I think not.

88

Shepard Smith at December 03, 2009 05:49 PM (gbCNS)

Heh. Shep likes his news hard. Rock hard and throbbing.

89 66 Charles Johnson is in full blown counter attack mode but the best he can do is link to meaningless little science blogs.It appears that the few remaining old timers over there that have been able to hold their noses and keep posting in the comment threads have finally had enough with his insane defense of these frauds.

He took another ocean picture. If you look in the lower right corner you can see a sailboat. The abominations he's forcing me to commit must be stopped

90 Remembering David Roberts:

"Back in September 2006, Roberts wrote, 'When we've finally gotten serious about global warming, when the impacts are really hitting us and we're in a full worldwide scramble to minimize the damage, we should have war crimes trials for these bastards -- some sort of climate Nuremberg.'"

Yeah, that's what we need.  Climate Nuremberg trials.

91 @78 RobD

Well if you look at who the scientist are who have pushed this junk science on us they are mostly vegetarians or vegans.

A lot of the food pyramid crap was based on religio-scientific quackery going all the way back to the Kellogg brothers, but plenty of people have profited mightily by duping us into believing that livestock feed is good for you while discounting the dangers of yo-yoing blood sugar levels and the insulin response.

I completely agree with you that the AGW hoax closely parallels the crap science behind today's nutritional conventional wisdom.

92 78 Well if you look at who the scientist are who have pushed this junk science on us they are mostly vegetarians or vegans. We can trust them right? They don't have any bias do they?

Most of the people "pushing" the agenda are elitist hypocritical whores

http://tinyurl.com/ylfhx6x

93 "A high fiber diet is good for you.  So stop slaughtering animals because they aren't high in fiber."

Posted by: WTFCI at December 03, 2009 05:48 PM (GtYrq)

But if we don't slaughter the animals, we'll have to contend with all the methane gas they produce.

94

The Wall Street Journal notes that all of science's credibility is at risk, should scientists attempt to cover this up.I wonder why they would make such a statement or try to take such a position.  Seems silly. Posted by: Jek Porkins

Because they are subtly accusing other scientists of ignoring the rampant corruption in climatology. They are saying in other words, "Hey, where were you assholes while this was going on?"

95

BTW, Charles Johnson has inadvertently helped we sceptics by noting that the CRU data hasn't been destroyed by American sources like the National Climatic Data Center and that Jones implied that the CRU had only deleted 5% of their material. Also, they must still have it because they've produced charts post-supposed-deletion that they only could have made if they still had the data. (If I've read the Strata-Sphere post correctly.)

96 Hey look! I took a picture of some moss!

Talk about it all night while I listen to old Al Jerreau records and fondle myself outside of my shorts picturing Rachel Maddow in a sailor suit with a penis.

97 I think we have a "Designated Fall Guy", folks...

98 @82 Carl Sagan

Fuck you my quote was peer-reviewed.

Were these the same billions and billions of peer-reviewers who green-lighted your nuclear winter bullshit?

Go back to your bong, you zombie pothead.

99 103  Were these the same billions and billions of peer-reviewers who green-lighted your nuclear winter bullshit?

Go back to your bong, you zombie pothead.

You are positive proof of Sturgeon's Law: "apes or angels"

You clearly fall into the latter category. Nyahnyahnyah :p

100 Is the whole world a lie?

So, I should have been paranoid all along?

101

We really needed more Sokals to tear the joke departments and fields apart ... but instead, universities are brimming with them, these days.

Enviro-wacko studies is just where a lot of the left went, since they saw more power in using that soft-science to achieve their ends. But they have turned it into nothing more than sociology with some not-so-clever computational sleight of hand.

Kill.

The.

Humanities.

Strangle the social sciences.  We just don't need this crap anymore.  It's worthless, easy and stupid.  States should end subsidies for schools that have too much of these wussy subjects.

102 Listen you morons: If it's not peer reviewed, then it's just more right-wing denier nonsense bought and paid for by big oil.

Of COURSE no real scientist would review anything that challenged a formerly held notion. Don't you people know how unscientific that would be?

103

"Were these the same billions and billions of peer-reviewers who green-lighted your nuclear winter bullshit?"

Sniff, sniff.  Well, Ted Danson agreed with me when he started his 1994 campaign to save the oceans - that they'd be depopulated within 10 years.

What?  Missed that well founded, concensus view too?  Never mind.

104 I love how all the libtards are falling back on "this doesn't debunk AGW"

Yes, much like finding out from your older brother that mom and dad are really Santa Claus doesn't debunk his exisitence either.

105 I liked Michael Mann better back when he was doing Miami Vice.  That was a cool show and he didn't put much bullshit about climate in it.

106 (I'm being a hyperbolic dick.  McGovern was a WWII hero.)


McShithead was a gen-u-ine no-shit Vietnam hero.

I'm just sayin'.

107 Wasn't Benedict Arnold a hero before he wasn't?

108 Calling this Venkman-style is insulting to Dr. Venkman.  Although I'll bet Phil Jones wishes he could wire up Anthony Watts and Steve MacIntyre and give them electric shocks.

109 Don't cross the data streams.

110 Why all this fascination with what Michael Man thinks lately?

What about Robert Zemeckis? Did it ever occur to any of you that maybe he might have an opinion?

Of course not.

111 Sure was. Almost single-handedly led us to victory at Saratoga while Horatio Gates sat in his tent with his thumb up his ass.

112 Generally you don't see that kind of behavior in a major data base.

113

Strangle the social sciences. We just don't need this crap anymore. It's worthless, easy and stupid. States should end subsidies for schools that have too much of these wussy subjects.

Posted by: AmishDude at December 03, 2009 06:00 PM (ItSLQ)

Hear, hear. But then the left will have to adjust the talking points about their "intellectuals", and that will drive them even crazier than they are. It's really a shame because a lot of these fields could be interesting (not the really pointless and stupid ones that are nothing but pure political correctness), but they attract such mediocre and poor minds that they are more destructive than anything.

Of course, we would have to be able to get rid of affirmative action in university hiring to clean up the departmental mess, and I don't see that happening. Bean counting to a hiring committee is just too deeply ingrained.

114 I wonder if Bendict Arnold considered himself a maverick?

115

Hell, Rasmussen says 59% already suspect thses "scientists" are making their shit up, Venkman-style.

Sir, my integrity has never been called into question like this before.

116 119 I wonder if Bendict Arnold considered himself a maverick?

Posted by: Rodent Liberation Front at December 03, 2009 06:19 PM (dQdrY) Benedict was the first to consider West Point "the enemy camp".

117 I'm trying to concentrate on the comments, but I keep picturing that lady in the "Living with Crohn's Disease" video up there sitting on the toilet with that exact same slightly disappointed look on her face.

118 Circle jerks are peer reviewed.

119 @106 AmishDude

Kill.

The.

Humanities.

Since the legal system bought into the bullshit of disparate impact, four-year degrees have become about the only acceptable proxy for employment testing.  That makes higher education big business, and the institutions have to put the people who can't do hard sciences or fine arts somewhere if they want to collect all that free student loan money.

120 Benedict was the first to consider West Point "the enemy camp".


Heh.

121 Prof Mann then argued however that there was "absolutely no evidence" that he too had manipulated data

As long as you ignore the mound of evidence in the emails, the fact that he cherrypicked the data he wanted from tree rings, doctored the data to ignore previous warming periods, and overall has stonewalled and lied about the data, he's right.

122 That makes higher education big business, and the institutions have to put the people who can't do hard sciences or fine arts somewhere if they want to collect all that free student loan money.

Very true.  The irony, even the humanities are too hard for many athletes.  The majors they invent for those guys are laughable.

123 @118 progressoverpeace

Of course, we would have to be able to get rid of affirmative action in university hiring to clean up the departmental mess, and I don't see that happening. Bean counting to a hiring committee is just too deeply ingrained.

Heh.  It was civil rights overreach that diluted the sciences in the first place.

If employers could make hiring decisions based on exam scores (something similar to the GRE--like the civil service exams of yore) without worrying about disparate impact, then we wouldn't have the 4-year degree requirements.

Without the 4-year degree requirements, we wouldn't have so much demand for higher ed.

Without this demand for higher ed, we wouldn't have a system that mollycoddles so many unequipped "college students" who should have entered the workforce after finishing sixth grade.

124 126 Prof Mann then argued however that there was "absolutely no evidence" that he too had manipulated data

When do we see overhead footage of a suicidal Mann in the back seat of a Prius being followed by half the Pennsylvania State police on the PA Turnpike at 30 mph?

125 hell if you look now he is the author of every other comment.

And he still has plenty of time to have his way with me.  Does this guy have 28 hour days or something?

126 Mann certainly has some interesting ideas about the scientific method. Fruit of the Poison Tree, Tarts From the Poison Fruit

127 > Is the media still blacking out this story? It's been on the front page of Google News for over a week. A major (not the Times, obviously not the Guardian) British paper ran a front page story.

128

Screw McCain and Arnold.

My new hero is Ethan Allen and the Green Mt. Boys.

129 Posted by: MikeO at December 03, 2009 06:33 PM (Ce+tv)

Well stated - and your previous post, too.

You know, it's funny how disparate impact satisfies our courts, but no citizen can seem to find standing to demand that Constitutional prescriptions are followed for the most powerful office in the land ... because they aren't considered to be "harmed" by ineligible people running our government. Needless to say what sort of field comes up with, and defends, inconsistent schemes such as this ... (Sorry, I just had to throw this in - disparate impact talk just sets me off ).

130 I'm telling this is just the tip of the burg. There are a number of so called settled science hoaxes out there. The top of my list are the lipid hypothesis(cholesterol causes heart disease), animal fats(saturated fats) are deadly, and a diet high in fiber is good for you. All are based on junk science but became the common wisdom even though there is a pile of studies that contradict them.

Funny you use that example of junk science.  Read "Good Calorie, Bad Calorie".  It essentially shows that the conclusions for low fat diets are based on very poor analysis of the data.

131 @134 progressoverpeace

Man!  Reading your comment have made me thought many times that you have access to the thoughts in my head, but what you just wrote is making me wrap tinfoil around my head as I type this :-)

132 I mentioned the USSR agricultural science fraud.  Here are some details:

"Scientist" Trofim Lysenko was Director of Soviet Biology under Stalin based upon his promise that he could increase crop yields with his theory of the inheritability of acquired characteristics.  Thus in a process known as vernalization he soaked wheat seed  then stored it over the winter in snow the theory being that a hardier type of wheat would be created which could be grown in harsher climates.  This was total nonsense that never worked  nevertheless he was the go to guy on genetics in the USSR from the late 1920s until 1964.  Whereas his theories never worked and whereas millions of people were literally starving to death, there was dissension among the scientists.  Stalin handled this first by making a "practice above theory" speech that lauded Lysenko's nonexistent accomplishments while his enemies offered mere criticism but no solutions.  Stalin then backed that up expelling, imprisoning, and executing rival scientists.  He won the USSR State Prize in 1941.  Dissent from Lysenko's theory was formally outlawed in 1948.  In 1964 Andrei Sakharov denounced him blamed him for the "shameful backwardness of Soviet biology and of genetics in particular, for the dissemination of pseudo-scientific views, for adventurism, for the degradation of learning, and for the defamation, firing, arrest, even death, of many genuine scientists."  That year, his immunity to criticism was ended and he lost his status.

But he had good run with total bullshit from the late twenties to the early sixties.  It was the failure to reproduced his reported results that exposed him back in the twenties and thirties as a fraud but that didn't impair his career for another thirty years.  He was politically useful to the government because his bullshit theories provided hope (and change?) to the starving peasants. 

Like I say, when I read about this in the late sixties, I thought it could never happen here. 

133 @136 self

One more time (you'd think I'd be better at one-handed typing with all that pr0n on the interwebs):

@134 progressoverpeace

Man!  Reading your comments have made me think many times that you have access to the thoughts in my head, but what you just wrote is making me wrap tinfoil around my head as I type this :-)

134 Posted by: MikeO at December 03, 2009 06:46 PM (Ce+tv)

Heh, heh.

135 @137 WalrusRex

Like I say, when I read about this in the late sixties, I thought it could never happen here. 

Ever hear of Whole Language reading instruction?

136 Need insurance? Try the only company using global warming science: Michael Mann Method Mutual of Orbisonia

137 Walrus, Very interesting.

138 I just went through today's NYT, and nuthin. Not one peep of climategate.  In fact, they did mention that Copenhagen will be a tough sell, but not one word mentioning Australia giving their cap n trade the boot, nor the emails, nor capital hill beginning the rumblings of congressional investigation.  The willful blindness is staggering. But T I G E R  W O O D S, now THAT is news.

139 Why do you all hate me?

140 Why do you all hate me?

Posted by: Knut the loveable maneating Polar Bear at December 03, 2009 07:35 PM (NvtVj)

You eat seals. Die fatbody.

141 Why yes; my balls are feeling particularly refreshed today. Thank you for asking.

142 When do we see overhead footage of a suicidal Mann in the back seat of a Prius being followed by half the Pennsylvania State police on the PA Turnpike at 30 mph?

I'd say a few days before he starts his crusade to find the real warmaquiddick culprits.

143 Actually the last we heard of lovable Knut, he was being sold to a private owner because the bear was doing bearlike things such as kill fish and eat them in front of the horrified, emasculated German tourists. Local German zoologists suggested he was killing the fish because he had been so influenced by mankind and that he had become psychotic. I kid you not.

Affirmative action isn't the problem, it's that PC leftist dogma has infected the sciences as much as the rest of academia.

144 But, how you gonna' know, until you try?

Posted by: franksalterego at December 03, 2009 07:36 PM (GKyIE)

I think I'm starting to understand why Lefties don't mind islam so much.

145 Affirmative action isn't the problem, it's that PC leftist dogma has infected the sciences as much as the rest of academia.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at December 03, 2009 08:18 PM (PQY7w)

Affirmative action was the main driver that enabled the insane grade inflation, lowered the quality of the student body, and led to the forced acceptance of people who would never earn their way in, in departments that no sane university would have ever had - in addition to putting a drag on the scientific arms. This also loosened up the field for mediocre leftists to inflitrate areas that they normally would never have much access to.

From the legal angle, affirmative action forced the courts to make some of the craziest and most incosistent rulings ever. That whole slew of cases in the 70's (I think) which determined that racial quotas at universities were neither racially boased, nor quotas, was a phenomenally destructive force. Once that sort of idiocy is sanctioned, there are few bounds left. That really broke the system, in my view.

You're certainly correct that these are just implementations of leftist ideology. The static, stagnant, leftist world. In their insane world, nothing moves unless they push it, and then it only moves exactly where they push it to. It's a pretty hellish world they live with, when you think about it.

146 Until pretty recently, perhaps 20 years ago, math and science were the last bastion of absolutes left in mainstream academia. Truth? Its up to you. Ethics? Well, whatever feels good. Beauty? Its entirely your choice. But math and science, well 2+2=4 no matter what you feel about it.

That's changed. Science now has ethicists and philosophers playing with the very fabric and purpose of the discipline and even hard sciences are infected with the "make your own truth" relativist puke of the left. Postmodernism makes idiots of us all.

147 Chris Taylor, you're not one to lecture anyone on what is and is not science.

148 Hey this is left field, your comment came out of here and we miss you!

149

A big effin' "heh" to all the AGW zealots including Mann.  I'm very proud of the Journal for the pressure they're maintaining on the topic, at least in the "opinion" section.  With the future of capitalism and free enterprise at risk, it is the least they can do.

Plus, Burberry scarves are the epitome of cliche.

 

150 One simple way Mann can put his distance from the emails to rest. Have an independent third party computer expert scan all the computers and servers Mann had access to on the date and after the delete email was received and see what files if any were deleted and who deleted them and determine whether they were warming data related files of the type that Phil Jones identified.
Betting dollars to donuts that Hockey Puck MM deleted not only those files identified by Jones, but related files that also contained incriminating numbers and statements.

151

It isn't just scientific peer review that's at risk here, it's all professional peer review. If the public can't trust the scientific community to police its own, why should they trust doctors (AMA) or lawyers (bar associations)? The entire concept of trusting trained professionals could come into question with this.

152

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