1 So our only hope is the far left?

2

I was just about to head off to bed, but I thought, "I'll just check Ace and see if anything new has happened while I was looking at por...uhh...I mean checking e-mail."  Sure enough.  Something new has happened.  I should have just gone to bed.

3 How come we can always count on: 1. One or more Republican always siding with the Democrat, and 2. Holdout Democrats always voting Democrat in the end? History will show this was the beginning of the end of America as a vital world power. The 9/11 Terrorists suceeded beyond their wildest dreams, aided and abetted by their Democrat allies.

4
Good thing I'm drunk, otherwise I'd be really pissed off.

Can't blame Nelson, he's a goddamned democrat after all.  It's the cocksucking traitors like Snowe that need to be keelhauled.

5 The people of Nebraska said that if Nelson votes for it, he's gone. So he's doing so at the viability of him staying in Washington. If he really wants to retire, he'll vote for it. If he wants to stay, he won't.

6 Maybe we should send money to the CBO.

7 Damn. I've been lulling myself into thinking this healthcare bill might actually go away. Stupid me.

8 Oh well. Liberals always hate to speak of American Exceptionalism and power. After this, they'll have a point.

9
No, it can't go away.  Not after they granted themselves trillions of dollars of slushfunds to buy it's way through and make sure it passed. 

The representative republic is truly dead, it's 1770 all over again - taxation without representation.

10 Next stop, Cap & Trade. After that... Hello, Third World. BTW, if Nelson votes for this I hope he rots in hell.

11 Son of a b...! F*ckity f*ck F*ck f*ck! I'm going to start scribbling FC everywhere a la Reagan.

12 History will show this was the beginning of the end of America as a vital world power. The 9/11 Terrorists suceeded beyond their wildest dreams, aided and abetted by their Democrat allies. May the Lord damn them all.

13

Well, I guess that conservatives have to reinforce to the people the impact of the tax increases as well as other items in this mess.  The point has to keep being hammered home again and again over the next 11 months.  The GOP really has to regain control of both houses to slow this thing down anyway they can.  While I hate to say this the GOP have to play just as harder, if not harder then the Dems both outside and inside the house. 

Why doesn't the GOP have a George Soros type of guy to heavily fund conservative information outlets?  Geez, you would think they would. 

Methinks the next fight is going to be with the EPA.

14 And God damn the idiots who voted for this fuck.

15
I can't even muster the energy to be angry about this.  Just numb at this point; there's not many more nails they can put in the coffin.  Souter destroyed private property, Wee Wee invalidated contract law, now Reid and Pelosi have socialized our health. 

Blehhh, drink.

16 I can't wait for the 52 Percenter's reaction when their insurance premiums go up overnight, with nothing to show for it. By the way, brace yourselves for higher cancer mortality rates, folks, Europe Here We Come!

17 Unbelievable.

18 I have so little faith in the American people that when we turn into the 3rd world banana republic we're heading for, I still don't think people will care. They're too entangled in entitlement mentality. Oh yeah and fuck you, 52%!

19 Fucking stupid fucking idiots who voted these fucking assclowns in anyway.

20
CPI spiked this week, too; inflation is about to start the inevitable climb towards the sun.  It just gets better and better.

21 Hey, rummy! You're cute when you post pissed :-) I'm just too worn to even react anymore. Truly, 9/11 killed our country. I'm not sure I recognize what it's turning into.

22 No more lip service to voting these criminals out. We are going to have to work like never before to make sure these traitors never see Capitol Hill again unless it's in a postcard.

23 This was over the day Republicans let this get through the House. They played games and the Democrats are not playing. It does not matter how many seats the Democrats lose next year, Republicans will never be able override The One's veto. The Left has won.

24 I have to say, I really had hope that the growing disapproval of this bill would help kill it. I always forget that you can never underestimate liberals. They will literally do anything to get their agenda through. And, you're right, RayJ, Republicans always think they can score points by playing nice. Idiots.

25 The Republicans need to get their act together and come up with a strategy to kill this thing piece by piece over the next few years: target the individusl mandates (hell, those are unconstitutional anyway), go after the death panels, raise holy hell over massive medicare cuts meant to fund insurance for illegals made "legal" overnight.

26 Remember when Snow voted to "let the process continue?" Thanks a bunch, Olympia! Any guesses what the deficits will be a decade from now?

27 As someone said: Repubs think Dems are stupid and Dems think Repubs are evil. Both sides are projecting. I wish the Repubs would figure out that Dems project and are the real evil ones. The Dems have already figured out the Repubs are stupid and gullible.

28 Oh well, all those asshole seniors that always vote Democrat will blow a gasket when they realize their Medicare Advantage plans are gone, ha, ha! And the look on their face when they're wedged in between two Ecudorian hookers in the overcrowded waiting room... That'll be precious!

29 CoolCzech: "How come we can always count on:
1. One or more Republican always siding with the Democrat, and
2. Holdout Democrats always voting Democrat in the end?"

To 1) Because they are all statists at heart differing only in degree. At some point each will seek special privilege/funding on behalf of him/herself or the constituents he/she represents. Deal-making essentially guarantees collusion for a theft when states compete at a federal level.

To 2) Because there is no such thing as a Blue Dog. It's a publicly-sold contrivance to create the illusion in conservative-leaning states of traditional/conservative bona fides (which can dropped at any time).

It's a game with the public the pawns being played. Statism and loss of Liberty is inevitable - broken up only intermittently by revolution when the collective mass doesn't feel it has anything more to lose.

30 How do they get to 60 w/o Lieberman and Byrd? When are they holding this vote? What happened to DeMint and Coburn reading the bill or the managers amendment?

31 Well, it's official, I'm ready to kill motherfuckers over this. Wake me when the shooting starts.

32 real progress=held out for some REAL money.

33 30- Weren't they going to try to do it on Christmas Eve?

34 33- Thought I read somewhere that once they voted on the managers amendment tomorrow morning it was all over. Don't understand how they do that in a blizzard w/o Joe and Byrd.

35 If Byrd kicks the bucket before voting, I will finally believe 100% in a God.

36 I think tomorrow, Reid introduces the amendment for a vote on Monday 1 am.  They don't need Joe until then.

37 @34: they've shown a real talent for ignoring formalities so far. Don't be shocked if they let Lieberman phone it in.

38 #34: i'm guessing smoke & mirrors......  fuck them all. 

39 Weren't they going to try to do it on Christmas Eve?

I think that the deal is that they need 60 votes by Monday to get "cloture" (ending debate and allowing a vote) in time for the vote itself to come up on Christmas Eve.

For that they only need 50 + 1 for it to pass.

This way Nelson can go home to Nebraska and tell them that he voted for this obscenity before he votes against it.

40 btw, i was reading the ONTY, got to 500ish, and refreshed: it now locks out at 318. is that a feature or a bug?

41 So as far as progressives are concerned, women get thrown under the bus. I hope they scream like pigs over this.

42 @40

I dunno, you tell me.  How were comments 319-500?

43 40- It's been doing that for everyone. They're trying to figure it out.

44 Women under the bus, seniors under the bus, the middle class under the bus. It's really quite amazing.

45 saw that GT....  i should have skipped to the bottom and jumped in, but the funnies just kept coming....

46 You know, Congress has forever had the reputation of lazily taking extended breaks and weekends. Now that they're set on fully destroying the country, suddenly it's Saturday nights and holidays.

47 it's one helluva bus, that's for sure.

to hell with insurance, i'm spending the money on more ammo.

48 gawd save us from industrious stupid people....

49 Tomorrow (today) at 7am will be the final vote for the Defense authorization bill. They just need 51 votes for that, unless Republicans don't wave the budget points for the bill. In which case, the Dems will need 60 votes to get past that. Once this is done, then they will set the first healthcare vote for Monday morning to approve the manager's amendment. They need to pass cloture on that. And then there are 2 more cloture votes (60 votes required) in order to get to the final vote for healthcare. At any time during those 3 cloture votes starting Monday, Republicans will be demanding bills and amendments be read. It'll slow them down somewhat, but not much. If... IF.. Reid doesn't get cloture on the Defense authorization bill tomorrow (today) then it screws up his entire schedule. And it's possible with Lieberman out, and Byrd out. But remember, 3 RINO hags vote for cloture on the Defense authorization bill... so it's expected to pass.

50 What's with Reid's Christmas-eve fetish? Is he afraid Tint Tim's gonna croak or something?

51 Gah. Tiny.

52 Well, it was nice being able to look forward to new drugs coming out on a regular basis. THAT'S gonna come to a screeching halt. At least the fucking Canadians won't piggyback off of R&D Americans used to pay for. By the way, don't think the Public Option is gone. I'll bet anything it'll come back during conference.

53 Aren't there any more procedural tricks the Republicans can use? Having the whole fucking bill read, or something?

54 i'm spending the money on more ammo.


I bought a large pile when it looked like Gore might get elected.  that stuff is real valuable now.

55 Can we lock all of Congress out in the snow and start over again?

56 CoolCzech, 'm sure Ben Nelson's anti-abortion provisions will fizzle in conference, too (although he'll probably get to keep whatever money he choked out of Obama).

57 Also realize... the House is not going to ping-pong it if it doesn't contain a public option. Which means conference committee, and then back to both sides of Congress for another vote. There is no filibuster in the House, so that'll pass if it has a public option. But Republicans will filibuster again in the Senate and force a 60-vote cloture again... and if it has a public option and everything they put in to bribe people was removed, it won't pass.

58 Can we lock all of Congress out in the snow and start over again?
Posted by: Doc
-----------------
We're going to have to start thinking something, god knows. Seriously, the Sons of Liberty tossed the tea into Boston Harbor. What can we do?

59 enoxo, from what I understand, Pelosi is going to rubber stamp whatever chunk of vomit the Senate presents her.

60 I'm thinking a general strike . . .

61 Hell, what's opening the door to a socialist America when you can get abortion off the table? What an idiot.

62 Seriously, the Sons of Liberty tossed the tea into Boston Harbor. What can we do? Toss Congress into Boston Harbor? In the dead of winter, not when it's warm out.

63 Can you imagine the outrage when we find out what's actually in the fucker?

64 put them out on one of those allegedly melting ice floes so all those starving polar bears have something to eat?

65 Honestly, we can't be 21st century pussies about this stuff anymore. We have to have a revolutionary mindset.

66 59 enoxo, from what I understand, Pelosi is going to rubber stamp whatever chunk of vomit the Senate presents her Posted by: arhooley at December 19, 2009 03:29 AM (GKXA7) ~~~ Unless they put in a public option after they removed said public option and medicare buy-in, Pelosi won't rubber-stamp it. Her Progressive Caucus (ultra-libs) will go inferno and will reject the bill. The PC is the largest caucus of the House. And if they did put a public option back into the bill (we won't know until tomorrow, and even then it'll be hazy) then they're going to lose Lieberman and other Senators. Also, remember, DC is currently being hit with a nasty snow storm. How nasty? Meteorologists for DC have increased advisories to a BLIZZARD. DC has the potential to be shut down until Monday or more if it's as bad as they're saying (that means if no one is in the Capitol sleeping on cots, they're not voting for the Defense authorization bill today, or the manager's amendment Monday morning.)

67 Toss Congress into Boston Harbor?
--------------------

If only "insurance" and "medical care" weren't intangible services, unlike tea. I'd just like to burn, dump, or otherwise destroy something that the perps had money in.

68 Maybe the blizzard is God telling Congress they're doing it all wrong. They won't listen, of course. But still.

69 Ot's pretty pathetic when we have to pray a snowstorm saves the country. Just pathetic.

70 Honestly, we can't be 21st century pussies about this stuff anymore. We have to have a revolutionary mindset.

Posted by: Girl Thursday
---------------------

Right you are, GT. That's why I'm seriously looking for non-procedural, disobedient ideas. Voting the fuckers out won't work. When the hell ever are the most entrenched ones going to get voted out in our gerrymandered districts? Nancy Pelosi is one of the greatest villains in the country, and yet one of the safest seats in Congress. Writing letters and marching and voting aren't going to be enough.

71 Damn, "It's pathetic," I meant.

72 I'd just like to burn, dump, or otherwise destroy something that the perps had money in. If I could toss Goldman Sachs into the sea and drown them I would. George Soros, too. BTW, the radar map for DC is showing ALL blue, which is snow. That is one big ass storm pummeling the area.

73 Holy shit enoxo, you've restored a one-molecule-thin thread of hope.

74 Snow, my pretties, snow! Snow like you've never snowed before!

75 Wouldn't it be just tragic if Olympia had a bad spill in the snow?

76

I'd like to be a fly on the wall in the House-Senate conference, if this thing move on.

Oh, Rove, you magnificent bastard.

77 Hundreds gather to protest global warming.

78 Amd to think they're actually going to enact the Deathcare Bill on Christmas Eve? Are liberals SICK Fuckers, or what?

79 @77: where are they gathered, on the National Mall? Heh, heh.

80 CoolCzech at December 19, 2009 03:42 AM (QECjC) Olympia needs to get lost in a snow drift, preferably in Maine.

81 First they keep fucking the chicken.  Now they chop my head off.  Us birds can't win, I tell you.

82 http://www.erh.noaa.gov/lwx/   DC NWS web page

83 77 ROFL

84 73 Holy shit enoxo, you've restored a one-molecule-thin thread of hope. Posted by: arhooley at December 19, 2009 03:40 AM (GKXA7) ~~~~ That's about as much hope as I have on stopping this. It's not impossible, but it's looking improbable. Right now, in order for them to pass through the Senate by Christmas, it will depend on Reid filing maneuvers at the precise day / time. If he's off on his time, or something gets blocked or takes longer than necessary, he's going to fail. Their ultimate goal is to get a bill passed completely and able to be signed before the State of the Union. If that doesn't happen, Obama has problems.

85 I just don't get it.  Are these people THAT anxious to be out of work after 11/2010?  I mean, really?  They have to see the writing on the wall when their local constituents are pitching a fit against the bill.  Are they really that brain damaged?

86 where are they gathered, on the National Mall?

I think so. 

87 Are they really that brain damaged? Yes, yes they are.

88 Oh well, on the bright side, this whole plan is so dysfunctional we're in for several more rounds of "reform" in years to come. Hopefully conservatives will get a chance to get things right one day. Oh oh: Flo the Progressive Insurance girl just came on TV, right after the sexy Pajamas commercial. Flo guaranteed to take her clothes off and think of you as she puts them on? Scary thought, indeed.

89 I know, WTR - it's become a rhetorical question these days, no?  Still...ugh, I should have just gone to bed.  I feel like I've been punched in the gut.

90 Question - is the threat to have the bill read word for word still in play?

91 it's become a rhetorical question these days, no? Still...ugh, I should have just gone to bed. I know, I was thinking the same. I was going to bed and then decided to see what y'all were saying. *sigh* It's the powerlessness of the people that gets me. Nothing will ever hurt these elitist assholes and that's what sucks the most. Now everyone will know how Californians feel, heh.

92 We are so boned.

93 I have to be awake in 6.5 hours so I'm out, morons. I'll be hoping as hard as I can that DC is shutdown long enough to fuck with Congress and their fucktacular plan.

94 What did Nelson get for this? Throw the bastard out of Congress.

95 Question - is the threat to have the bill read word for word still in play?
-------------------

Mitch McConnell said he has some other procedural tricks up his sleeve. Work your magic, Mitch!

96 Are they really that brain damaged?


They are extremely power-hungry.  They've been lusting after control over health care for 40 years, and they are thiiiiiiiis close to getting it.  bastards.

97 g'night Rum.

98 90 Question - is the threat to have the bill read word for word still in play? Posted by: tdpwells at December 19, 2009 03:54 AM (Ei3oZ) ~~~~ Yep. Reid has anticipated it. Like forcing a read of the Manager's amendment will likely take 8 hours. He has allotted time in his schedule for it. If the poor clerks are tired, and read slower... he's hosed.

99 Screw it, I'm going to bed. Take heart: the supposed "benefits" of this fiasco don't kick in for a few years after all the taxes and mandates do. There will be an uproar. Congress can be forced to take it all back, especially if Bambi's scrawney ass is kicked out of office. Goodnight, guys. Or good morning, actually.

100 enoxo at December 19, 2009 03:59 AM (p0Ddl)
Has he allotted time for snow?

101 If this gets signed in time for SOTU, I am NOT going to stare up Obama's arrogant nostrils. I think a massive march that keeps the congressidiots from even entering the chamber might be in order.

102 100 enoxo at December 19, 2009 03:59 AM (p0Ddl) Has he allotted time for snow? Posted by: red131 at December 19, 2009 04:00 AM (dCY+4) ~~~~~ Nope, cause no one knew the snow storm was coming. And then Lieberman flying the coop was also a surprise, according to some reports.

103 I keep hoping Lieberman will come thru, just one more time. Come on, Joementum!

104 Heh, you don't think Lieberman's disappearance act is one of those "procedural tricks," do ya?

105 We're going to know if Reid will be making the Christmas deadline today at the latest. If he is confident that he has the 60 votes, either through public commitments, or private ones, he'll reveal the bill and file the manager's amendment. Today is the last day to file the manager's amendment, so if he doesn't have the 60 votes, he's screwed as he cannot stay to the deadline and add in more bribes. There's also the chance Reid can bluff his way in by filing the amendment even without all the votes, and try to figure out some way to arm-twist to 60. But that's a high risk gamble, because if the manager's amendment fails cloture, it'll crush health care dead.

106 out of curiosity, when has Joe *ever* come through for anyone other than the dems?

107 Surround the Capitol and don't let the bastard motherfuckers back.  Don't hurt them, but we need a massive show of civil disobedience to stop these Fascist pimps and whores before they destroy us  Waiting until 2010 is TOO LATE. 

It's enough.  They are treasonous and criminal, worse than the worst Mob families....it's time to fight back

108 Well, Joe DID campaign for the Republican presidential nominee.

109 104 Heh, you don't think Lieberman's disappearance act is one of those "procedural tricks," do ya? Posted by: CoolCzech at December 19, 2009 04:05 AM (QECjC) ~~~~ It's hard to say, honestly. It could be Reid miscalculated and was more confident on the Defense authorization bill (and DC not shutting down due to snow) than reality, and he gets screwed. Or Reid has RINOs in his pocket--like the Hag Twins of Maine. Either way, Lieberman leaving was not planned. Reid specifically stated last night when the Defense authorization cleared cloture that one of them would be traveling to the Capitol by foot Saturday morning to vote for the budge points. (As Lieberman has walked to the Capitol on foot during Sabbath to pass important votes.) And now Lieberman isn't walking anywhere.

110 And to think those Senators don't even know what's in the fucker anyway, aside from their individual bribes and concessions. And they're still tearing along like madmen to vote on it.

111

108 Well, Joe DID campaign for the Republican presidential nominee.

when? they didn't nominate a Republican for president in '08......

112 110 And to think those Senators don't even know what's in the fucker anyway, aside from their individual bribes and concessions. And they're still tearing along like madmen to vote on it. Posted by: arhooley at December 19, 2009 04:09 AM (GKXA7) ~~~~~~~~ At this point, some liberals are desperate to pass anything, regardless of what it is, so long as they get their Rose Garden signing photo-op and can claim success and "unprecedented awesomeness." The ultra-libs, though, are going to revolt massively against Pelosi, Reid, and Obama, unless it has a public option. They're not going to accept anything less, even if it's simply a foundation for future single-payer to be expanded upon later.

113 If it goes thru, the teaparty will gain enormous power.

114 113 If it goes thru, the teaparty will gain enormous power. Posted by: Percopius at December 19, 2009 04:14 AM (V0nbk) ~~~~~ The concept of the Tea Party already has higher favorable ratings than both the Democratic party and the Republican party in a poll that came out this week. If the Democrats force through a crappy bill--one that has mandates, tax increases, (and no public option or Medicare buy-in) as well as no benefits until 2014 (basically, what the current known bill is) I can foresee a third party candidate winning handily in 2012. You could even say it would be unprecedented.

115 Oh, to see this stopped by snow. It happened to the God damn Germans in the winter of '43 outside Moscow, it could happen again!

116 maybe they think its gonna fail: Ear Leader is wagging the dog...  missile strikes in Yemen

http://tiny.cc/r378F

117 enoxo, i'm giving your scenario a solid B+....

118 I'm praying for a blizzard. 100% chance of snow, sometimes heavy. Bring it!

119 I'm honestly trying to decide if I want to go to bed, or wait up until 7:00 am to see what happens with the Defense authorization budget points. As whatever happens to that is going to set the mood for the day until we figure out if Reid is filing the manager's amendment or not. I don't have anything to do tomorrow morning except start getting ready for Christmas, so I can sleep in after watching CSpan.

120 Well, enoxo, you've given me a thread of hope. I thought Pelosi was going to rubber-stamp anything, but if this nasty little nugget of a public option works its way back in during conference and sticks in Lieberman's craw, we may be saved.

Meanwhile, I'd like to see a revolt by the ultra-lefties. What would that be? Maybe they'd all hold their breath until they turn blue.

121 And to think those Senators don't even know what's in the fucker anyway, aside from their individual bribes and concessions. And they're still tearing along like madmen to vote on it.

All they need is a start, that they can tinker with endlessly down the road.  And use to buy votes from the idiots, by promising "improvements".  Just like every other fucking entitlement program they've foisted on us.

122 We face the same problem with the Congressional Democrats as we do with the jihadists:  rational deterrents don't work.

Just as the suicide bombers are willing to die for their cause because they expect 72 virgins in Heaven, the Democrats are willing to lose their elections next year because they expect the socialist paradise they're enacting to be worth it in the long run.  They're just too damn stupid to understand how ruinous it will be.

It is very hard to maintain hope right now.

123 German tank fuel froze in the Russian steppes in 1942. SNOW, YOU BASTARD, SNOW!

124 120 Well, enoxo, you've given me a thread of hope. I thought Pelosi was going to rubber-stamp anything, but if this nasty little nugget of a public option works its way back in during conference and sticks in Lieberman's craw, we may be saved. Meanwhile, I'd like to see a revolt by the ultra-lefties. What would that be? Maybe they'd all hold their breath until they turn blue. Posted by: arhooley at December 19, 2009 04:32 AM (GKXA7) ~~~~~~~~ Yeah, Pelosi would be risking political, and power, suicide if she rubber-stamped the Senate bill without a robust Public Option of some form. I'm talking them likely forcing her to resign as Speaker suicide. The Progressive Caucus is nutty, but they're dead-set on a PO or single-payer and nothing less. And if Pelosi basically gave the divided Senate full control over what is in this bill, without the House having a say... it's going to be a glorious show fit for tons of popcorn.

125 But if they do manage to shove this down our throats, we'll just have to force some kind of new paradigm to replace the conventional wisdom that this stuff, once enacted, never gets repealed.

At least, given that the vast majority of "benefits" don't kick in for four years, there may still be time to convince the American people to revolt against this in time to undo it.

It's a slim hope, perhaps, but what else is there to do if these bastards get it through?

126 enoxo, by 7:00 a.m. do you mean 7:00 a.m. EST? That's not so far away, is it?

I have a big damn day tomorrow. Niece is getting married and I'm doing the cake.

127 Don't count on the weather making any difference. Washington Metro trains are running on schedule UNDERGROUND the snow has no effect on trains whatsoever. There are several stations within underground walking distance to the Capitol.

128 But Lieberman has to get back to town somehow. And Byrd, what about Byrd? Isn't he toasting his decrepit frame around some Rebel hearth somewhere?

129 126 enoxo, by 7:00 a.m. do you mean 7:00 a.m. EST? That's not so far away, is it? I have a big damn day tomorrow. Niece is getting married and I'm doing the cake. Posted by: arhooley at December 19, 2009 04:38 AM (GKXA7) ~~~~ Yep, 7:00am EST today. In 2 hours and 18ish minutes. Or it's 7:30am. It's 7:somethin-gam is when the Senate is going to reconvene to finish business on the defense authorization bill (the budget points.) Republicans are expected to not waive the procedures on it, which means Reid is going to have to find 60 votes in the middle of a blizzard at 7:00am if he wants to keep his schedule.

130 we'll just have to force some kind of new paradigm to replace the conventional wisdom that this stuff, once enacted, never gets repealed. ------------------ Damn straight, Kensington. I remember other CW, like That Wall Will Never Fall. I think Repeal or Bust is our course.

131 128 But Lieberman has to get back to town somehow. And Byrd, what about Byrd? Isn't he toasting his decrepit frame around some Rebel hearth somewhere ? Posted by: arhooley at December 19, 2009 04:42 AM (GKXA7) Lieberman is stuck in CT until Saturday evening, because he cannot drive or fly during his Sabbath. He's also stuck in CT potentially even later if flights are grounded in DC due to the blizzard. As for Byrd... I can see them wheeling in a fragile, old man through a blizzard in order to push through votes. Definitely not positive news Reid wants, though.

132 Re the kamikaze madness of the Dems, I'm hoping (here I go again) that if this thing doesn't go through by SOTU, enough Dems get wise to the Messiah's sinking poll numbers to realize that helping him does not help themselves.

133 Well, I'm turning in with a sort of "Dewey in a Landslide!" mindset. With any luck our republic will still be dangling by a thread later this morning. Hope to see you later, enoxo.

134 132 Re the kamikaze madness of the Dems, I'm hoping (here I go again) that if this thing doesn't go through by SOTU, enough Dems get wise to the Messiah's sinking poll numbers to realize that helping him does not help themselves. Posted by: arhooley at December 19, 2009 04:50 AM (GKXA7) ~~~~~~~~~~ Don't count on it. Crazy Pelosi doesn't believe she's going to lose the House in the next election.

135 133 Well, I'm turning in with a sort of "Dewey in a Landslide!" mindset. With any luck our republic will still be dangling by a thread later this morning. Hope to see you later, enoxo. Posted by: arhooley at December 19, 2009 04:54 AM (GKXA7) ~~~~~~~~~~ Take care.

136 One thing is for sure, we can't go quietly on this. I'm sick of the apathetic mindset our generation has had over the past couple of decades, but now we're it. We're what's standing between this country and its complete ruin. I don't mean to be overly dramatic, but the time for subtlety is gone.

137 Amen sister!!!!!!

138 Looks like C-Span 2 will go live with the Senate at 6:45 am. I'm going to go spend an hour watching Sanctuary, and then come back with a book to wait for the last 45 minutes.

139 There are no words to express my level of rage over this.

ALEXSMASH.

And, just of out idle curiousity, is there an actual really written bill yet?  Or are they voting on vaporware?

140 139 There are no words to express my level of rage over this. ALEXSMASH. And, just of out idle curiousity, is there an actual really written bill yet? Or are they voting on vaporware? Posted by: alexthechick at December 19, 2009 05:22 AM (h1WPo) ~~~~~~~ It's currently vaporware, and will be until a manager's amendment is filed on Monday.

141 It's currently vaporware, and will be until a manager's amendment is filed on Monday. Posted by: enoxo at December 19, 2009 05:23 AM (p0Ddl) ~~~~~ Er, filed later today (Saturday.) The vote for the manager's amendment is Monday. My bad.

142

Yeah, this thing won't be over -- no matter what -- until January 2011.  It could be rolled back.  Getting the public option out of whatever the current version is, is a big accomplishment.

Explain what the "benefits" are of this plan, even from a lefty point of view.  People don't want it now.  The only reason it has any support is that liberals feel sorry for Obama -- they treat him like a retarded child -- and want to give him what he's asking for.

I also have a feeling that the Democrats are playing a very dangerous game of chicken here.  That is, lots of them don't want any part of it passing, but they all want to be on record supporting it.  Hence, Joe leaves town.

Nelson is off, now he's on.  I think they want to have this thing ping pong back and forth so that at the end of the day it fizzles out because the commies can't reconcile with the less-than-commies.  Ultimately, I think that's what they're betting on.

In the meantime, Reid is playing ham-fisted poker.  He's always bluffing that he's got the votes when he doesn't.

143 Help us, Senator Coburn, you're our only hope!

Make them read the damn thing.  Every.  Last.  Fucking.  Word.  That way we'll know that there's one damn person in this entire country who has actually, you know, read the thing.

144 I book title I hope we see in 30 or so years:

How Joe Lieberman Saved The Republic

145

2010 Congressional Elections Update:

U.S. HOUSE: Dems=258, Repubs=177, Republicans need to beat 41 democrats, and lose no Republican seats, to take the House in 2010, and to have the majority of votes needed to elect Republican John Boehner, as the new Republican Speaker of the House, and boot Nancy Pelosi out as the Speaker.
(takes 218 out of 435 seats to make a majority
in the House)

In the 1994 Republican Revolution, House
Republicans picked up 54 seats.

All of the House is up for reelection in 2010,
so all Democrats can be voted out in 2010.

———————————————————

U.S. SENATE: Dems=58, Repubs=40, Independent=2
(Bernie Sanders and Joe Lieberman)

Roughly 1/3 of the Senate is up for reelection every 2 years.

37 Senators are up for reelection in 2010, and
of those 37, 19 are Democrats, and 18 are
Republicans.

Republicans need to lose no Senate
Seats in 2010, and beat 20 Dems (gain 20 Senate seats)to have the 60 cloture-vote margin (filibuster-proof) to pass
legislation, but there are only 19 Democrats
up for reelection in 2010 to beat, so the
other 1 added Senate seat will have to be
done in 2012, if Joe Lieberman, the
Independent moderate, does not caucus (vote)
with them on enough legislation.

If the Republicans pick up all 19 Democrats Senate seats, and lose no Republican Senate Seats in 2010, they will have the Independent Senator Joe Lieberman, who caucuses (votes) with them some of the time, to give them the 60 Senate votes the Republicans need to pass some legislation in 2010.

In the 1994 Republican Revolution, Senate
Republicans picked up 8 seats.

---------------------------------------------------------

Even with a Republican sweep in 2010, it will most likely take the 2012 Congressional elections, along with a conservative Republican President, to give Congress the ability to pass legislation, that begins fixing the damage that has been done to America. This is due to the fact that it takes a 2/3 majority vote in each Chamber, to override President ObamaÂ’s veto power. This would be 290 votes in the House, which is unlikely, and 60 votes in the Senate. A Sarah Palin, Mitt Romney, or Tim Pawlenty as President in 2012 would be a continuation of restoring sanity to America.

———————————————————

List of the 19 Senate Democrats up for
reelection or retiring in 2010:

-Ted Kaufman (D) of Delaware (Repubs Mike
Castle and Christine OÂ’Donnell challenging)
-Blanche Lincoln of Arkansas (Repubs Gilbert
Baker and Curtis Coleman challenging)
-Barbara Boxer of California (Repubs Chuck
DeVore and Carly Fiorina-rino? challenging)
-Michael Bennet of Colorado (Repubs Jane
Norton, Ken Buck, and Cleve Tidwell challenging)
-Christopher Dodd of Connecticut (Repubs Rob
Simmons, Sam Caligiuri, and Peter Schiff are
challenging)
-Daniel Inouye of Hawaii (Repub Gov. Linda
Lingle possible challenger)
-Roland Burris of Illinois (Repubs Mark Kirk
and Patrick Hughes challenging)
-Evan Bayh of Indiana (Repub challengers
include Marlin Stutzman)
-Barbara Mikulski of Maryland (Repub
challenger Eric Wargotz)
-Paul G. Kirk Of Massachusetts (Special
election held in Jan 2010, Republican
challenger Scott P. Brown)
-Harry Reid of Nevada (Repub challengers
include Dan Tarkanian and Sue Lowden)
-Kirsten Gillibrand of New York (Possible Repub
challengers Rudy Gulianni and Liz Feld)
-Chuck Schumer of New York (*NO REPUBLICAN
CHALLENGER YET)
-Byron Dorgan of North Dakota (possible Repub
challengers Paul Sorum, John Heoven, and Duane Sand)
-Ron Wyden of Oregon (*NO REPUBLICAN
CHALLENGER YET)
-Arlen Specter of Pennsylvania (Repub
challenger Pat Toomey)
-Patrick Leahy of Vermont (Repub challenger
Len Britton)
-Patty Murray of Washington (Repub challenger
George Nethercutt)
-Russ Feingold of Wisconsin (Repub challenger
Dave Westlake)
—————————————————-
There are also many other good conservative
and republican candidates running in all 50
States, so seek them out, research them, and
join with other conservatives to get the word
out, and letÂ’s flip the House and Senate in
2010, and restore freedom and dignity to
America.

146 CSpan 2 shall be coming up live for the Senate in about 12 minutes.

147 CSpan 2 is now live.

148 (I don't know anything about the organization, by the way.)

Come on, really?

Dick Morris just sent that link along, eh?

I'm totally against the health reform act making its way through Congress, but I'm much more against untransparency on the part of political operatives on the right.

Don't fucking jerk us off, Ace. You know a lot about that organization and claiming otherwise really makes you seem stupid and easily led.

149 I can't get C-Span here so I'm staying with you guys.  The first group of expats who abandoned "home" to escape socialism and the tyranny of elected officials were the Scots.  Within my industry I  know hardly any who remain in Scotland.  They are scattered all over Asia and South America.  It was mostly over crushing taxation at "home".  Australia is now making visas tough for British passport holders because they have a tendency to never go back to the UK.  But the advantage the British have is eventually they go off the Inland Revenue's radar screen.  We Americans never do get cut loose by the IRS, we have to literally renounce our citizenship or they follow you all over the globe pawing your pockets.  U.S. companies make it easier for them by paying out of the U.S. so they have to take out the withholding.  How is this legislative dog's lunch going to affect me?  Well I can either pay for insurance that I will never use because I'm here or pay a fine through the IRS for not having bought the insurance I can never use.  Who knows what else is in this bill?  Nobody does, not even the "authors".  It may reach the point where I can't go home because I don't know what law I've unknowingly broken and will get detained in immigration.   I don't want to renounce my citizenship.  My hope is that Texas asserts State's Rights under the 10th Amendment and tells D.C. to pound sand.

150 You can watch C-Span here: http://cspan.org/Watch/C-SPAN2.aspx

151 Thanks enoxo.  Will do. 

152

I am here to FUCKING EXULT!

I WREAKED HAVOC on the single table SNGs tonite!

For FIVE WEEKS I've been a FUCKING POKER GOD!

Bow before me, all you lesser beings!

Give me your fucking money please and thank you very much!

Give it to me!

153 Now eat my hovac please!

154 Anything to report?

155

Elections have consequences.

A plurality of liberals, misled Americans, welfare mendicants and  95% African Americans voted for Democratic control of  Congress and placed an inept, narcissitic, cold and lying socialist ideologue in the White House. Whether right or wrong you cannot now feign ignorance and hope to turn back the clock.

This man is your President and you have to face the consequences of your lazy and (quite frankly) stupid and uninformed vote and accept President Obama and his incompetence until November 2012 when again you will have the right and honour to exersize your franchise as a voter on Gods greatest nation.

It is unfortunate that this is not just about incompetence. This is ineptitude of the highest order from your vote for this individual to his subsequent actions and the venal support by your main stream media who have kept you poor souls in the dark for decades.

Too many Americans think that life is like surfing the channels on telelvision. You think that you can just switch life's channels if you do not like what you see. Sorry it does not work like that. Unfortunately with dumbed down youth voting, welfare mendicants voting and pampered liberals in Califirnia and New York voting you are left with a Government that will soon show them that they will get just the opposite of what they want.

When the streets start to get dirty as the liberals continue taxing and spending cities into oblivion, as crime escalates with Democratic corruption in the body politic, as the aging liberals cannot get their medical tests and have to wait in line at hospitals, as the youth cannot get jobs and have to pay more taxes you will indeed see that elections have consequences. I even see now that they are subverting the rules to give GM to the unions, to ram through Obamacare (funny what Libermann said to Franken - REALLY!!??), refunding ACORN, paying off the unions with billions in tax dollars, proping up failed state coffers with your tax dollars under the guise of TARP and STIMULUS and with much subterfuge changing the rules as they go along.

 

ELECTIONS HAVE CONSEQUENCES.

Long live your President and the Congressment and Senators - WHOM YOU VOTED FOR IN NOV 2008.

156

My hovac is hot, tasty and prompt!

You want to taste spicy quick hovac, yes you do!

157 They're currently voting to kill a procedural motion filed by the Republicans on the defense authorization bill. Requires 60 votes to kill it.

158 Snowe voted to kill the procedural motion. Friggin' Hag.

159 And they just wheeled in Byrd. In a friggin' blizzard.

160 Just wheeled Byrd in.

161 If you had asked me a yr ago if I thought passage of such a bill were likely, I'd have thought you a lunatic.

162 Collins also voted to kill the procedural amendment. Hag Twins of Maine Powers Activate... Form of... RINO Form of... Flatulence.

163

This wouldn't be the first time Harry Reid lied about "having a deal" -- although I hate to be optimisic and fool myself.  Still, he likes to lie to put pressure on the rest of the Senate,  making this look "inevitable" -- didn't he and Shumer stand up there last week and say they had a deal worked out?  How out of character would it be for Reid to try another last minute bluff?

 

164 So reassuring, that the 'Party of the elderly' chooses to use its oldest 'statesman' & the President pro tempore as a prop.
/s

165 And they killed the procedural motion by 63 votes.

166 And Republicans have filed another procedural amendment requiring a vote to kill.

167 Ah looks like we're fucked.

168 The stolen election in Minn. that put freaken Franken inthe Senate sure had consequences

169 On the previous vote, Lieberman is gone so there were 59 votes... So 4 Republicans have had to cross over to give them 63. The Hag Twins of Maine were two... don't know who the other two were.

170 The reading of the names of Senators during the vote taking could be simplified by just saying "statist, statist, statist, statist, statist......." because they all are to greater and lesser entent.  The names themselves remind me who these traitors are and the core voters who put them there.  Distain and disgust are not powerful enough adjectives.

171 So the bill funds killing babies, strips the old of previous, health-saving benefits, hugely buries future generations in debt, strips women of life-saving tests.....tell me again who benefits from this bill?

172 So the bill funds killing babies, strips the old of previous, health-saving benefits, hugely buries future generations in debt, strips women of life-saving tests.....tell me again who benefits from this bill? Posted by: J at December 19, 2009 07:59 AM (T3/qP) Pol Pot?

173 Hag Twins of Maine voted again to kill procedural vote.

174 Byrd thinks he voted for custard from that nice black boy in the white coat.

175 We can still pose as POS and begin calling the liberal senators (like the two shitbirds in my state) and demand that they do not vote for this POS until it covers every POS third world POS and covers late term abortions up to age 6.

176 Byrd thinks he voted for custard from that nice black boy in the white coat. Posted by: Dave in Singapore at December 19, 2009 08:03 AM (FsB36) Byrd still thinks?

177

Freedom works online warroom will send emails to your reps. Quick and easy. Tried to post link here but too long i guess. It is free as well.

178 And 63 votes to waive the budget points. 4 more Republicans joined to kill procedural vote.

179 looks like I will be contributing to any candidate that is running against this nelson character. he is definitely on the "devil be gone" list, along with a few others. We have to get rid of these congressional wankers. they are destroying this country by thier continuous spending, and now they are going to pass this disastrous bill? what is happening in this country?

180 Final vote up now for the defense authorization. Expected all Republicans will vote for it.

181 Let me be clear,, as I've said before,,, make no mistake,,,--You racist-bitter-clinger-cracker-a$$-crackers are gonna' get some healthcare, like it or not. I'll tell you why too, just remember these two words--~ I WON ~. Now sit down, shut up and get your wallets out 'cause this is gonna' cost ya' major big time!!!.....................OsamaHusseinIslamObama 2012' (the terrorist-Uighur-ACORN-media choice) -It's never too early to campaign-

182 Fuck, guess i should have read last posts. Looks like we are screwed.

183 They figure that with taking over you health care they will have a ready made campaign rally call:  "Republicans will take away your health care".  Along with the rest of the entitlements they can control every election. 

184 Ben will be doing very well for the time he has left. Very well.

185 Defense authorization bill is going to pass. Inside it are also jobless benefit extension, and delays Medicare payment cuts to Doctors. Yay, more pork!

186 Welp, after this, it's time to reveal the healthcare bill, and any bribes in the manager's amendment. That'll be filed today if Reid thinks he has the votes, or can bluff his votes. That vote is set for Monday in the early morning.

187 I hope McConnell, McCain, Steele, and Boner have a wonderful holiday. Fuckers.

188

Okay, that whole 'The country is doomed to slavery and facism' thing aside:

I want to have a sex change just so that I can have sex with that poster and bear its children.  I don't care who you are, that there is funny.

189

I will certainly contribute a sizable amt to Nelson's opponent should he vote for this deathcare bill. and Send the receipt in one of the UNDNC's prepaid envelops attached to a few phonebooks.

I wonder if this is a pressure tactic by Reid, this asshole did the same thing 3 weeks ago, Bloomberg had the headline, and then in the next week it was obvious that there was no deal.

I hope these fuckers are stupid and oblivious. Because if they cram down this piece of shit legislation, forget you repubs and conservatives, they now have newly disgusted ex-democrats and new independents like me to worry about.

I don't know remember 1994, I voted for Bill Clinton, but could never understand why repubs/conservatives hated BC then.  But now with the internet, I see how the MSM lies, I see how they cover up for that asshole in the WH.  There was no internet in 1994, the information now avaialble makes it impossible for the MSM to carry the storyline for their product, Obama, without the American public figuring out the true story.

I am more, a million times more pissed off at that america-loathing/Constitution-hating/military-hating  marxist in the WH and his comrades in Congress than I ever was at Bush and Cheney.

 

190 And Mitch McConnell has demanded the manager's amendment be read. Reid tried to interject to get Ben Nelson to talk for 9 minutes before the amendment is read. It was struck down. But now I'm curious as to what Ben Nelson wanted to talk about--I think he caved.

191

stupid asshole Ben Nelson.

I am contributing $$ to the RNC right now!  Is there is a limit to how much a person can contribute to the RNC per year??

192 Of corurse Republicans caved. It's NEVER Democrats. Never. The irony is, Reid probably bribed them with OUR tax dollars. I think it would be hilarious if Byrd expired of a stroke just as his turn to vote came up, by the way.

193

500 Billion in Medicare cuts

500 Billion in new taxes

The US dollar as a reserve currency, its days are numbered.

By 1st quarter next year, America's depression of the 21th century will be obvious and just accelerating, and with these new taxes, unemployment will easily reach over 12%.

194 I'd be dejected if I didn't see this coming a mile away and constantly said so.

After the last few years, I'd admire the optimism of anybody expecting to win this one--but, come on, our squishes not having enough backbone and the moderate Democrats caving in at the end was as predictable as the plot to Avatar.  Maintain hope (otherwise this is all pointless) but expect little.

195 Of course Nelson caved. Lets be honest he always caves. And to attack this bill and have all depend on Abortion was a big mistake. That is the least of the problems with this piece of shit. We took our eyes off the ball.

196 I am contributing $$ to the RNC right now! Is there is a limit to how much a person can contribute to the RNC per year?? Posted by: johnc_recent_EX-democrat at December 19, 2009 08:40 AM (ACkhT) Don't do it, seriously. Save your money for decent candidates. I gave Doug Hoffman a few bucks. Give Harry Reid's opponent a few bucks. I will take this occasion to spam for Scott Brown. He is running to fill the seat Red Kennedy vacated.

197 It looks dire indeed, but there is a chance - a very SLIM chance - that it might go down in flames. Follow the logic. The anti-abortion can't be in both the House and Senate bills or else the nutroots will go absolutely ape. Just sayin'. Keep hope alive, people. And stock up on ammo and Val-U-Rite just for good measure.

198 He is running to fill the seat Red Kennedy vacated. Some typos are worth leaving in :-)

199

fluffy,

ok, I don't have much understanding of the RNC, I will take your advise and contribute to good candidates instead.

I've sent $$ to sarah palin and doug hoffman, can anyone list some more? Who's the dude running agn Spector? I WANT SPECTOR DEFEATED!

200 This lady is having difficulty reading the manager's amendment.

201 The Cthulhu reference is fantastic - anyone here play Arkham Horror?

202 @193: Yeah, well, you know what? That's how this thing gets killed- by overwhelming conservative control due to all that.

203 This lady is having difficulty reading the manager's amendment.

Yes she is. Must be a democrat.

204 My totally unbiased understanding of the RNC is that they suck.

205 My totally unbiased understanding of the RNC is that they suck.

Nice guys finish last apparently. Lazy fucking imbeciles.

206 Crap, hit post too early. I despise the Republican party less than I despise the Democrat party. While this year they have mostly stood up admirably, they wouldn't be in these straits if they had behaved better for the past 10 years.

207 Fucking traitors.

208

oh my God, as much I didn't like Bush, I at least respected the man. We have a Buffon-in-chief right now:

President Barack Obama burst into a meeting of Chinese, Indian and Brazilian leaders to try and reach a climate agreement in late Friday negotiations in Copenhagen.

Chinese protocol officials objected to Obama's presence in the meeting, according to a senior administration official,

209

well, so no one knows how much this shit is going to cost, no one knows what it is, people can be jailed, fined for not buying healthcare.

I can gurantee you, most people do not have any idea of the penalities. And right now people are more pissed that this is all being done in secret, essetially they want to pass a blank check, payable in any amount, payable to whoever.

THere is a backlash comning, and it will be severe, much more than 1994 ever was.

Just try and jail or charge people for not buying something they don't want to.

210 I will say, Reid was angry... angry... angry when Mitch McConnell wouldn't let him let Ben Nelson talk. Reid was gripping his podium and snarling, all agitated like. Was amusing.

211 Just to make everyone's day....wait till next year.  They'll cram "crap and trade" down then.  They're not done screwing us yet, and they don't even have the decency to lube us up first.

212 pat tommey?  and marco rubio?  are these people fiscal conservatives?  I still have some $$ left until I reach my limit for the year, and I want to contribute to fiscal conservatives.  can someone give me some feedback on these 2 people?

213 210 I will say, Reid was angry... angry... angry when Mitch McConnell wouldn't let him let Ben Nelson talk. Reid was gripping his podium and snarling, all agitated like.

Those whom the gods would destroy, they first make mad. 

Alas, in the end, there will be only chaos.

214 Someone just tried to get the reading of the amendment waived, but it was objected to. Wonder who that was. They're REALLY trying to cut off the reading.

215 @203: must be a product of public education. (I am too, but hey, I AM a moron, after all)

216 OT Breaking: Ben Nelson will vote for cloture on health care bill. That's all folks.

217 #214  They're REALLY trying to cut off the reading.

Then nobody can claim "we don't know what's in the bill".

There's nobody lower on the scumbag food chain than a politician, and Dem politicians are the lowest of the low.  I really wish these poor bastard's souls would have to suffer a fate fitting of Dante's Inferno.

218

they didn't let Liberman talk, so no speaking for soon-to-be-ex-senator-nelson,  isn't liberman gone back to CT?

btw, what about jim webb, he's not as as save as he thinks in VA, he was a republican just 5 yrs ago, he is up for relection in 2012 , but the taxes are going up in 2010, and bob mcdonneld and his AG in VA have already said they are invoking the 10th amendent agn any of this crap. 

219 If Nelson was a terrorist, the assholes fucking us over with this POS bill would be bitching about how depriving a subject of sleep until they cave in and comply is vile torture, high moral ground, blah blah blah blah blah.

220 Stop worrying. Flenser assured us this would never pass the Senate.

221 @216: so a guy so famously anti-abortion is voting for THIS abortion of a bill, LOL.

222 When our Union collapses under the weight of the socialist oligarchy, these sons of bitches will need to be brought to trial to answer for their crimes.

223 Guys, I made the Cthulu pic.

224 221 216: so a guy so famously anti-abortion is voting for THIS abortion of a bill, LOL.

Maybe Nelson will try the old "vote for cloture but not vote for the actual bill" trick.

225 Insurance companies get tax breaks.  In addition to the subsidies.

226 It's all over . . . we are not officially a fascist/communist country endowed with mindless, gutless self serving politicians.

227 Just try and jail or charge people for not buying something they don't want to.

That's why the IRS is in charge of looking over your medical insurance records and making sure you comply or pay.  People of average means cannot fight the IRS.

228 Shed a tear for your country, because it will never be the same. Ever. "Hope" and "Change" has brought with it nothing but destruction and misery.

229

Posted by: HeatherRadish at December 19, 2009 09:20 AM (PufQP)

wanna bet?  I'm telling ya, most people don't know this. When I told them, they still did not believe me, it was when I showed them part of the House bill they believed me, and trust me some of them are small biz owners, they are very good acctns, they will just not pay that difference. the IRS can keep a running tab of money owed to the US govt, these biz people have no intentions of paying the differnece.

if the number is in the millions of people who refuse to abide, there will not be enough jail cells to hold them

230 It's out of our hands. Only the liberals can kill this.

I'm not completely sure that Reid can hold his caucus.

Webb has been awfully silent, although he probably bends over in the end.

Sanders, the Vermont socialist, will probably freak at the pro-life provisions.

231 if the number is in the millions of people who refuse to abide, there will not be enough jail cells to hold them

Heh. They'll be sent to Gitmo.

232

and btw, these small biz owners DO NOT use turbo tax, they know where every dollars goes for taxes, the 5 small biz owners I am friends with, have no fucking intentions of paying this.  Yes, the average tax payor will have no way to fight this unless they use this same approach.

But many will catch on. Once the see what this shitty bill means to them.

 

 

233 if the number is in the millions of people who refuse to abide, there will not be enough jail cells to hold them

There will never be "millions."  I don't even think "millions" are aware of the penalties--they still think this is Barry giving them free shit.  But even after they become painfully aware, normal people will not voluntarily ruin their careers and their family lives to spite some retired politicians.

234 Libs are not happen at the fact that Nelson got 2 year full coverage of Medicare for Nebraska, and got included in the Senate bill an opt-out option by state on whether or not state insurance will cover abortion. And if it does, the funds has to be paid from another, separate account from any federal subsidies.

235

Healthcare down, Cap and Trade to go!  I'll be el'-presidenta' for life!  Just watch me!

 

OsamaHusseinIslamObama 2012'

(the terrorist-Uighur-ACORN-media choice)

-It's never too early to campaign-

236

Well, at least they will pay for it at the polls in 2010. It is still another Trillion+ dollars we have to borrow though.

Amnesty in 2010 should be great too.

237 Whoa, what a nice pile of shit to wake up to. 

I don't know if it's already been said but...

Nobody wins with this.  When an American public (that still doesn't want single payer, no matter what they say) realizes what has been done, they're going to be righteously pissed.  With this "reform," everybody loses; higher premiums screw over the middle class; the progressives hate it because it doesn't do enough; the rich (oh, and everyone else as well) get taxed up the ass; the country loses because we get a few years closer to defaulting on our massive debt. 

Who does this benefit, except those in power?  Fortunately, these assholes couldn't wait to pass this thing (should it pass) until they got things together.  There's so much lose shit going on in this bill, that it contains the seeds of its own destruction.  Or so we can hope. 

238

History will show this was the beginning of the end of America as a vital world power. The 9/11 Terrorists suceeded beyond their wildest dreams, aided and abetted by their Democrat allies.

Isn't that odd though. The 9-11 terrorists caused us to respond to keep the country safe which caused our own media to lose their collective mind and target the president who wanted us to not die, jumping, burning out of buildings and the like. The media's and far left's use of the media because they never let a crisis go to waste, flips the public against the protectors ushering in far lefty loons who then keep voteing to destroy the country. Not predictable unless "never let a crisis go to waste" is the nexus.

239 I think its time to face up to the coming American Decline. It's time for the legions to come home. We need to pull the troops out of Europe today, and put Japan, South Korea, Taiwan, etc., on notice they'll be on their own in a few years. Sorry World, but Fuck You. You wanted America destroyed, and it looks like you're getting your way. On the up side, you'll now have more important things to worry about than the freaking weather.

240

What a Wuss- Kill all the babies you can with our tax dollars- just blow a few more bucks in Nebraska first.

Recall the bastard, my dear Cornhuskers. Recall him.

 

 

241 We need to pull the troops out of Europe today, and put Japan, South Korea, Taiwan, etc., on notice they'll be on their own in a few years.

I was having a discussion with some friends about this.  We decided that we should do just that—fuck you, socialist states; see how well your welfare system works now that America is no longer World Police and you've got to pay for your own protection. 

242

I am more, a million times more pissed off at that america-loathing/Constitution-hating/military-hating  marxist in the WH and his comrades in Congress than I ever was at Bush and Cheney.

Posted by: johnc_recent_EX-democrat at December 19, 2009 08:30 AM (ACkhT)

Probably because Bush and Cheney weren't relentlessly and aggressively looking for new and various ways to screw you over personally and ensure that you and your descendants would be trapped in a bleak and dysfunctional neo-feudalistic state as peasants toiling away to send tribute to the new nobility known as "public servants" in D.C..

So, they had that going for them.

243 As I wrote this morning, it appears this morning that Democrat Senator Ben Nelson is going to replace the "FOR SALE" sign with a "SOLD" sign and is going to support Obamacare. I say appears because of course Nelson isn't saying anything officially yet and I called his office and of course you go directly to voice mail and of course his voice mail is full so you get disconnected.

It appears that Reid and Obama are going to give Nelson the anti-abortion language he wants. It also appears that they are throwing in additional dollars for Nebraska(didn't Nelson say he wasn't for sale??? Hmmm sure sounds like a pay off). If all of this is true then Ben Nelson is done in Nebraska(has a U.S. Senator ever been recalled??)

And if this is all true then get ready for Nelson to try and play this that he fought hard and won provisions that will stop federal dollars going for abortion. For that we all applaud. But then I suspect he will say something to the effect that it's only right that all bills get an up or down vote and gosh darn it, I tried my darnedest but majority rules.

Since Mr. Nelson is so concerned about the Life issue, then let me point out a wee-bit of a problem with the Obamacare bill that he appears to be allowing to go forward.

It CUTS a HALF-Trillion dollars from Medicare

Medicare is paid to hospitals and doctors for care of our older Nebraskans. So Mr. Nelson, if hospitals and doctors are getting dramatically less to pay for the care of older Nebraskans, what happens to the quality of care for older Nebraskans? Is it time to revisit the term "death panels"? I think this is a LIFE issue worth fighting for as well.

Oh and add in the fact that in an attempt to make up for the billions of lost revenue, hospitals and doctors will be forced to dramatically increase the charge for office visits as well as all other charges to those of us with private health insurance. This will translate into out of control escalated healthcare premiums, co-pays and deductibles. These huge increases in premiums will be shouldered by the consumer and employer and will ultimately push employers from offering insurance and force us all to look to good old Washington DC for healthcare . . . Mr. Nelson, I believe that's called Nationalized Health Insurance.

So Mr. Nelson, it's still not too late. Is this really the legacy you want to leave your grandchildren just so Harry Reid, Nancy Pelosi and Obama can finally trumpet their first and only legislative triumph this year? 

Earth to Ben Nelson, find a spine and quick.

244 frankly this is the way i wanted it to go. i want the democrats to have this issue hanging around their necks. i want the whole country to see payoffs and dirty deals. it raises the chances that republicans can run on the platform of undoing and correcting what the democrats have done.

245 This will be Nelson's undoing in Nebraska.  He will pay a heavy price for this sell out to the people in Nebraska.  Nebraska is a red state, and Nelson has walked a fine line between being a dem, and being conservative.  His only support next election will be from the dead beat, welfare getting, the world owes me a living, crowd in Omaha.  Out state Nebraska will send him packing for this vote.  I am sure the ads are being developed in people's minds already this morning.

I hope he enjoys retirement, cause that's what is next for this sell out.

246 Nelson just said he's voting for cloture on Fox News.

We're fucked.

247 Nelson making statement now

248 NebraskaPatriot...

Hot Air is saying that Nelson caved on the abortion language.

He was bought.

249 And for those who believe that this can be 'rectified' by throwing these slobs ourt of office, guess again. They have thrown out the Constitution and we will not have another election. In the Copenhagen Cop Out was wording establishing a world governing body and a world currency. There is no place to go and nothing to do. I weep for my children. They have no future.

250 God, this is like watching Doug Kmeic.  Just say you've changed your mind and don't try to excuse your way out of it.

251 Merry Christmas everyone! Have a Happy New Year!

(drowning in new taxes, debt, and soon-rationed healthcare).

252 Now he's sucking up to Reid.  Jesus Christ.

253 We all knew that this was going to happen, it was just a matter of time until the holdouts were bought off. Obama's MO has become patently clear: use stim/TARP to buy off (literally) the opposition. It's that simple. We are in a dangerous position right now in America, one that noone has ever been in with respect to our freedoms and the future of the U.S. Major changes are sure to come, the only unknown being the direction of said changes. From here we go full tilt left, as Obama hopes, or we can start today doing those things that make sure that the opposite comes to pass. The questions for all of us really is: what are you prepared to do to preserve your freedoms (those that we have left that is). Are you now prepared to get involved with your local party, knock on doors, make calls, donate your time and money until your tapped? Passionately argue for an America that once was? Because if you're not then Obama's already won and he'll have done so on this assumption: that the opposition, while vehemently opposed, is ultimately soft and unwilling to endure that pain that comes from working for (or to protect) our freedoms. You have to ask yourself this: if the Congress is willing to vote for legislation this sweeping, this unpopular and this expensive, what exactly will they NOT vote for? Make no mistake folks, this is an attempt to raid the wealth of the country in order to ultimately take over our country incrementally. It's that simple - Obama doesn't aspire to be the anti-Reagan rhetorically but rather literally. If you think that Obama and the Dems are finished, you're nuts; in fact they're just getting started. And if they win this, which seems likely, it makes it that much easier for them to push ahead with further leftist policies aimed at destroying the freedoms that we hold dear. Unless we are prepared to fight further actions politically and in person, they'll continue to run over us. It's up to us.

254

He says if there are material changes in the conference report he will vote against it.

 

 

255 In watching him speak, you have to think this guy realizes how much contempt a bunch of his constituents have for him--he keeps saying "uh" and is rarely looking at all into the camera.

256 It's a dark day... but remember this is a highly complex, enormous, rush job done by a committee of idiots. Things like that never work out like fine clockwork... expect all kinds of parts to come flying off, especially with the population revolting against it. Yeah, they think they can buff out the bullshit later. But I think that is a reflection of looking at the process as per the status quo. And that situation won't exist after this POS passes.

257

He keeps saying he believes this will be addressed, I believe that will be addressed.....

You BELIEVE?  

 

258 I feel like a serf. Going to have to work to pay this thing off until I die. Fuck you all for ruining the USA, 52%!

259 pussy won't talk about how much $ Nebraska got - passing the buck to Harry Reid

260 >>254 He says if there are material changes in the conference report he will vote against it.<< Oh, I'm sure... they are still trying the "I'm about to vote against this" schtick. I'm not buying anymore.

261

He's trying to say the public isn't opposed to the plan being read on the floor, but rather the original one. 

262 Well, I suppose the silver lining of this bill passing is that we'll finally get to read it. Hard to believe that our Congress is so corrupt that that's what it takes.

263 Oh, I'm sure... they are still trying the "I'm about to vote against this" schtick.

I'm not buying anymore.

Posted by: vet Missing Parts at December 19, 2009 10:10 AM (MCHyX)

I don't believe a GD thing any of them say.

264 Look to your own states now to enact legislation barring mandates and the rest of this mess. Force the federal govt's hand. Start the civil war as it's the only way to save the nation.

265 Now where did I leave my fiddle?

266 On the bright side, once the country collapses under the weight of our socialist masters, the vets can rise up from the chaos and impose order, we can limit sufferage to vets, develop some kick-ass power armor, and start an intergalactic war with those bug bastards. 

267 Of course, a good question is: how much of this bill will be writtem AFTER it passes? After all, these people are now committed to voting for something they haven't read, so what difference would it make?

268

Fuck this.  I'm out.

 

269 The assjack can vote against the final amendment because he believes all the products of public school education won't be smart enough to figure out they only need 51 votes now. If Nebraskans buy this crap from him, they need their head examined. How can this possible be constitutional? Where are the constitutional experts. Any way to file a stay?

270 @245: sweet justice will be when he is denied his knee replacement by Sovietcare.

271 Somebody help me understand.  This bill is going to save economies, cover everybody, and lower costs.  Why do all these Senators keep holding out for exemptions from it?

272 I, for one, welcome our new Death Panel overlords.

273 Man, how did we ever allow it come to this? Some of us have been politically proactive, but not enough of us. IMO, we stood back and let statist incrementalism swallow us whole. I'm as guilty as anyone else, and I hang my head in shame. 

274 266 On the bright side, once the country collapses under the weight of our socialist masters, the vets can rise up from the chaos and impose order, we can limit sufferage to vets, develop some kick-ass power armor, and start an intergalactic war with those bug bastards. 

Posted by: Cautiously Pessimistic at December 19, 2009 10:13 AM (pZEar)

 

+1

275

My only hope right now, and I write this as a registered Democrat, is that 60 votes for Obamacare in the US Senate will translate to 60 fewer Democrats in the Senate come election time.   I couldn't be any more disgusted with these vile Democrats.  What happened to this party?  I'm sorry to all of you for ever supporting them.   Go Sarah Palin in 2012!

276

As an aside, I voted for Palin / McCain, my first Repbulican vote ever.   Before that, all Democrats in every election.  I write that with a heavy heart.  Again, my apologies.

 

277
It's over.  The nation is screwed.  Tax payer funded health care is on the way.
Merry Christmas.

The democrats have just declared economic war on this nation.

278 The Precedent & his minions have just used open bribery to change a vote. Remember when people used to be outraged over such tactics?

Our Founders weep from their graves. 

279 Well now all of the wheels are falling off of the wagon. 3rd world country here we come.

IT is getting harder for governments to buy United States Treasuries because the US's shrinking current-account gap is reducing supply of dollars overseas, a Chinese central bank official said yesterday.

The comments by Zhu Min, deputy governor of the People's Bank of China, referred to the overall situation globally, not specifically to China, the biggest foreign holder of US government bonds.

In a discussion on the global role of the dollar, Zhu told an academic audience that it was inevitable that the dollar would continue to fall in value because Washington continued to issue more Treasuries to finance its deficit spending.

He then addressed where demand for that debt would come from.

"The United States cannot force foreign governments to increase their holdings of Treasuries," Zhu said, according to an audio recording of his remarks. "Double the holdings? It is definitely impossible."

"The US current account deficit is falling as residents' savings increase, so its trade turnover is falling, which means the US is supplying fewer dollars to the rest of the world," he added. "The world does not have so much money to buy more US Treasuries."

280 How did it come to this? George W. Bush inexplicably allowed himself to become the Socialist's punching bag, instead of taking on their anti-Americanism, enviro-lunacy, and quasi-Communism. His passive attitude allowed this to happen.

281 This is what is bad about having some sort of premonition abilities. I saw this coming a yr and a half ago and knew it was going to pass. The same way the first time I saw Obama give his DNC speech I turned to hubby and said meet your soon to be president. I really, really hate knowing things like this in advance. I think this is one of my problems with depression......I still try to hold out hope, but I havent been wrong in a very long time.

282 Glass half-empty gal at December 19, 2009 10:33 AM (S3xX1)
What other premonitions can you share?

283 If 67% of the people do not want this monstrosity then please explain what is driving it?

284 Once this takes effect, watch it morph into what the most liberal Democrats wanted in the first place.

285 282 Glass half-empty gal at December 19, 2009 10:33 AM (S3xX1) What other premonitions can you share? --------------------------------------------------------- Yeah, what's the market gonna be on Monday? Just kidding...

286 283 If 67% of the people do not want this monstrosity then please explain what is driving it?

The once-in-a-lifetime opportunity to get the govt's foot in the door of healthcare - the statist's wet-dream.  Of course, I still think that there will be only chaos before the bill's full effects are felt, but even without chaos, we're still pretty screwed.

287
We allowed the Left to infiltrate our government through contrived social issues and they silenced us with political correctness. That's how we got where we are today.

288 283 If 67% of the people do not want this monstrosity then please explain what is driving it?

A contempt for the citizenry.

289 Anyone else love the irony of vote-buying with money the Feds don't have?

Didn't they just issue an emergency hike in the Debt Ceiling?

290 We allowed the Left to infiltrate our government through contrived social issues and they silenced us with political correctness.

And to add to that, we allowed them to indoctrinate our young via our public educational institutions.

291 Well, I'm certainly not giving up, but there's no doubt this is a very dark and disturbing event.

292 Elections have consequences.

Have you punched an ObamaConservative today? 

293 I think it's time that we all buck up and put things in perspective. While the odds that we face are long, they are nothing like those facing Washington and his group of patriots in 1776, or the soldiers that faced each other in 1863, or those brave souls that jumped out of airplanes in the dead of night or stormed cold, foggy beaches in June 1944. We're facing a political headwind, but those folks were looking at the barrel of a gun or a tight noose. I don't know about you, but I rather face the battle we're in now rather than then. We can win this, we will have to become more like Democrats in terms of fighting to preserve our freedoms with the same ruthless, hardcore, take no prisoners approach that the Dems take when attempting to imprison us. Don't get discouraged, every journey begins with that first step, every battle predicated on that first cry, and every victory preceded by the gut wrenching will to prevail. Keep the faith folks...

294 Though, this whole boondoggle will eventually kill itself.  Costs will skyrocket and push the Feds closer to insolvency all the sooner.

The whole damnable thing can't exist for long.

295

ok, I just read up on Pat Tommey and Marco Rubio.

I am contributing my remaining to the max amt today (before FY09 ends) to these 2. can someone please post their contribution links? Thanks!

296 Nelson, the Senate's most conservative Democrat, has been seeking fresh concessions to restrict access to abortion coverage in the legislation, as well as more money for his home state of Nebraska and other changes.



So basically he's just another Washington D.C. WHORE.

297
There is a bright side to this, folks.  We must band together to defeat the left.  We must stop whining about our own disagreements and do what the left did to us.  We must defeat the left in 2010 and beyond and repeal Obamacare.

298 One question is this:  Will they really cut 500 bil from Medicare?  Of course, some states are exempt from it, namely Florida and now Nebraska.  Louisiana gets a nice chunk of change too.

But seeing as these idiots have never cut much of anything in their whole God-forsaken lives, will they really suck money out of the program that most all seniors draw on for healthcare?  Especially as these seniors are serious voters?

299
Yes - they are all D.C. WHORES.  They are all deceptive thieves.

300 We must defeat the left in 2010 and beyond and repeal Obamacare.

Nice sentiment, but it's not getting repealed.  I expect the GOP to make huge inroads in 2010, but not enough to get a Veto Override majority.  Remember, Obama's still President until 2012.

That's a long time for a bureaucracy to entrench itself.

301 #285- Wish I knew about the market. I lost craploads last yr. It just doesnt work that way. I just know certain things. It is always random. I have real good luck on picking delivery dates for pregnant women, not that that helps much. I also tend to know when people are going to die. I keep a notebook full of random stuff I either feel or dream. Weird, yes, I know.

302

Posted by: Intrepid at December 19, 2009 10:54 AM (92zkk)

no, this is why this is so freaking scary. They will just print more money to pay for this. This is why the Chinease are livid with this deathcare bill. They might be commies but they are more free market/capitalist than America is now. They know these cuts will never happen, the Fed will just print up more money, and then the US dollar devalues more. Which means the Chinease holdings (along with every other country that holds a tremendous or any amt of US debt/treasuries) will go down in value.

This is why the poster above who posted that article shows that the Chinease and Japs will NOT continue to buy debt. So we will have VERY severe spending contraction (like what Patterson had to do in NY, and a good thing), but also this means people will move investments which are needed for new companies to be built/grown outside the country, most like china/asia. So we will be screwed when this realignment happens. And China is gunning to be top of the heap.

303
We should also thank the Republicans for taking a united stand against this.  That doesn't always happen.  They at least see the writing on the wall.

This was all done for the future growth of the Socialist-Democrat party, the growth of the federal government and the death of the private sector.

The democrats really should be called the Socialist-Democrats from here on out.  If it's good enough for Europe, it's good enough as truth in advertising.

304 Secede. Don't wait for your state to do it. Secede personally.

305 The good news is we have nothing to fear from Obama being president, right Sen. McCain? Putz.

306

"The democrats really should be called the Socialist-Democrats from here on out"

As a very recent ex-democrat, I 100% agree with this. these people are socialists and marxists.

 

307 So when are the other state senators going to hold out for money for their state medicade programs?  Or are their states so awash in 'extra' money that they'll be able to afford the pending increases?

308
300. Certainly, it's an uphill battle.  Maybe for once, we can place enough pressure for a long enough time to actually get these so-called representatives to do something for their constituents, besides raping and steeling from the our grand-childrens bank accounts - and calling it "stimulus".

309
I have no choice but to go Galt.  The only work out there is sanctioned by our oligarchy.

310

completely fight the system. Do not buy anything unless needed. I happen to own a small biz, I have no plans on hiring anyone, no matter how much of my own money they "generouly" give back.  And it appears now I may have layoff 2 employees.  And I am not the only one, people think this is getting better, the downturn will only accerelate by early next year, who the hell will hire people or grow a biz when they have all these shit like deathcare being thrown at them.

fight the system, don't buy anything, save as much as you can.

311 Been fun reading this thread guys, I'm off to but ammo. See you at the rallies.......

312 Kinda' makes you wonder,

what all the right wing "purists" who couldn't hold their nose and vote are thinking, right about now,

doesn't it.

Thanks, for slashing the throats of the American people.

313
I also tend to know when people are going to die.

you too?

I see dead celebrities. This weekend, Dick Van Patten will die.

314 Think how much money will be freed up when all these old folks don't qualify for their entitlements because their dead.

315 off sock!

316 their = they're

317 This is the end
Beautiful friend
This is the end
My only friend, the end
Of our elaborate plans, the end
Of everything that stands, the end
No safety or surprise, the end
I'll never look into your eyes...again
Can you picture what will be
So limitless and free
Desperately in need...of some...stranger's hand
In a...desperate land
Lost in a Roman...wilderness of pain
And all the children are insane
All the children are insane
Waiting for the summer rain, yeah
There's danger on the edge of town
Ride the King's highway, baby
Weird scenes inside the gold mine
Ride the highway west, baby
Ride the snake, ride the snake
To the lake, the ancient lake, baby
The snake is long, seven miles
Ride the snake...he's old, and his skin is cold
The west is the best
The west is the best
Get here, and we'll do the rest
The blue bus is callin' us
The blue bus is callin' us
Driver, where you taken' us
The killer awoke before dawn, he put his boots on
He took a face from the ancient gallery
And he walked on down the hall
He went into the room where his sister lived, and...then he
Paid a visit to his brother, and then he
He walked on down the hall, and
And he came to a door...and he looked inside
Father, yes son, I want to kill you
Mother...I want to...WAAAAAA
C'mon baby,--------- No "take a chance with us"
C'mon baby, take a chance with us
C'mon baby, take a chance with us
And meet me at the back of the blue bus
Doin' a blue rock
On a blue bus
Doin' a blue rock
C'mon, yeah
Kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill
This is the end
Beautiful friend
This is the end
My only friend, the end
It hurts to set you free
But you'll never follow me
The end of laughter and soft lies
The end of nights we tried to die
This is the end

318 We need a campaign in 2010 that kicks the Commies out of Congress and pressures Barry to resign. Biden won't veto anything.

319
They are Marxists.  But it's not working in the current meme/paradigm to say "Marxist".  The MSM goes into full mock panty-twist mode on that little bit of historical honesty.  It's better to say "Socialist-Democrat". (IMO)
What the hell - Bernie Sanders(D-Socialist) wants to be called a Socialist - that's what he is!

320 Dick Van Patten will die

Doesn't Brian Denehey play Dick Van Patten?

321
What's really bad is Obama keeps on saying his plan focuses on prevention and No One is asking for details about what exactly that means.

Obama is telling us straight up he plans to tell people how to live, what to eat, etc., and no one is even blinking.

322 320 Dick Van Patten will die

Doesn't Brian Denehey play Dick Van Patten?

Posted by: Hugh Jasteroid at December 19, 2009 11:12 AM (lD4DZ)

Magnificently

323
Doesn't Brian Denehey play Dick Van Patten?

Only Van Patten's comb-over.
The man is truly a master at his craft.

324 The Federal Government is destroying the United States of America. The Recovering Republic nears.

325
so what was the vote like for/against Bernanke?

brb

326

"The Federal Government is destroying the United States of America.
The Recovering Republic nears."

I am really beginning to think this is 10000%.  The system cannot handle this shit anymore.  Let the crumbling accelerate.

327 Honest to God, where do I sign up to fight this mess. 

328 Looks like this hideous blow to the republic is going to be passed by our parliament of whores and scoundrels. Well, so long to the concept of ensuring the public's well being.

Next up, cap and trade- which will seal off the public's pursuit of liberty and happiness.

As the captain of the Edmund Fitzgerald once said: "Fellas, it's been good to know ya."

(hat tip, Gordon feckin' Lightfoot).

329
In case anyone else is curious, this is how the rats in the Senate voted for the Fed rat, Bernanke, for his re-appointment.

Democrats:
Christopher J. Dodd Chairman (D-CT) Aye
Tim Johnson (D-SD) Aye
Jack Reed (D-RI) Aye
Charles E. Schumer (D-NY) Aye
Evan Bayh (D-IN) Aye
Robert Menendez (D-NJ) Aye
Daniel K. Akaka (D-HI) Aye
Sherrod Brown (D-OH) Aye
Jon Tester (D-MT) Aye
Herb Kohl (D-WI) Aye
Mark Warner (D-VA) Aye
Jeff Merkley (D-OR) No
Michael Bennet (D-CO) Aye

Republicans:
Richard C. Shelby Ranking Member (R-AL) No
Robert F. Bennett (R-UT) No
Jim Bunning (R-KY) No
Mike Crapo (R-ID) No
Bob Corker (R-TN) Aye
Jim DeMint (R-SC) No
David Vitter (R-LA) No
Mike Johanns (R-NE) Aye
Kay Bailey Hutchison (R-TX) No
Judd Gregg (R-NH) Aye

330

Morning all.  Well, you have to work with what you have.  Spend the next 10 months doing something to communicate to the people what this bill really means, not just complaining about it.  I think it's fair to say the bloom is off the rose with Obama and people are now ready to hear criticism about him and his policies.  I'm talking about your friends, co-workers and the like.  People that voted for Obama (and the Dems in general) based on a year of campaign rhetoric and not looking at his last 25 years of speeches, voting record, jobs, inner circle of friends etc.  If you start doing this now you will start changing  minds for 2010.  Make sure that you have reasonable arguments and are prepared to have the racist card pulled on you more than once without folding up.  Also remember that there will be a lot of buyers remorse out there but no one likes to be reminded that they made a huge mistake.  Be nice when you bring them out from the darkside.

While 2010 won't get the GOP any filibuster or veto proof majorities, if you start now (and start playing hardball) you can probably wrest control of both houses from the Dems.  At least that gives the GOP control of all the committees and the agenda.  Then you can begin to lay the groundwork to replace this mess with some reasonable reform (Tort reform anyone?).

The GOP has to be prepared to play harder and do so without rino's.  It's a tough thing to do but you have to be prepared to lose a couple of seats you may have won if you can replace current/prospective rino's with a reasonable conservative in a couple of nomination contests.  You have to hand it to the Dems, when they play they not only play to win they won't let up until their opponent is dead.  They have also managed to get a lot of people to equate the word conservative with facist so it's up to conservatives everywhere to change this in the minds of the voters. 

331

Sarah Palin did more to change/kill this bill than any republican.

But they held together for the most part on cloture, even though a few voted to move it forward on the procedural level.

How can anyone say we still live in a republic, when the left,right, and center, all oppose the bill, and yet they pass it anyway?

Even liberal polls show the public opposes it by 20 pts, and yet they pass it anyway. We are literally a deadbeat bananna republic that prints and borrows money to pay off politicians against the will of the people.

We are Zimbabwe, only with alot more money (for now.)

332 Crap. . .
Reid and his ugly cohorts are on the tube right now talking this up as if its a done deal. . .
Not good.

333 Only 13 days until the 2010 election battles begin in earnest. I can only hope that reversing DeathCare is the number one message of the many pols who will seek to capitalize on the Tea Party zeitgeist.
All conservatives running for election/re-election, here's some free advice...Make this priority number one. Explain to the voters why the HC "reform" is a horrible error and then once you're elected the mandate will be undeniable.

334

"How can anyone say we still live in a republic, when the left,right, and center, all oppose the bill, and yet they pass it anyway?"

everyone is pissed, liberals, conservatives and centers.  This is not a democracy, this is a thugocracy.

 

335 The Chinese have a vote in this, too. They will not buy our junk bonds to pay for American Communism. Collapse is inevitable.

336 Well boys and girls, we're effed now. We're effed sideways.

337 Benny is hoping that the people of Nebraska, who are overwhelmingly against a federal takeover of health care, will forget about this vote in 2012 when he is up for re-election.  This Nebraskan wont.  Whover runs vs Nelson will get my full support, both monetarily and with campaigning time.

338

"They will not buy our junk bonds to pay for American Communism. "

wow, what a scaryrily accurate statement.  Yes, the Fed cannot print their way out this one, the more they try to debase the US dollar, the more the Chinesase/Japs/russians will accelerate their move away from the dollar.

We are on the precipace alright, precipace of a Depression

339 @ 304 Ken - Secede. Don't wait for your state to do it. Secede personally.

@ 324 eman - The Recovering Republic nears.

@ 327 Terry - Honest to God, where do I sign up to fight this mess. 

to all: I'd highly recommend googling/binging the "Texas Nationalist Movement."

The whirlwind, it's a comin'.... and it ain't gonna be purty, no way no how.

340 So Nelson will vote for a bill that he is hoping to get senior Nebraskans exempt from - what the fuck is that?

341 Can a revolution restore the republic? Or has the work ethic been destroyed and the entitlement mentality become too strong to handle it? Once the genie is out of the bottle, is the USA rebuilt on original principles or do we end up with some sort of French Rev Frankenstein edging toward the development of some radical ideological party like what the Germans got in the 1920's? Or is it better to go Gault and let the rot finish off the old?

342 340 So Nelson will vote for a bill that he is hoping to get senior Nebraskans exempt from - what the fuck is that?

Typical politician nonsense. 

At least in the end, there will be only chaos.

343

I am willing to bet that a good %age of those screaming about Obama VOTED FOR HIM IN NOV 2008.

 

Elections have consequences.

Shawn Hannity was right days ago when he said that all the Democrats would cave. Could you imagine ONE Democrat being the person who prevented Obamacare. They would have him for breakfast, lunch and dinner.

Think logically. It is best that Obama gets this travesty passed. The GOP has something to hammer away at. If this did not pass then many disgruntled voters would think that they have won a huge battle and could now relax. As it is there is a massive amount of ammunition as the foolishness in Obamacare is exposed for all to see.

And there is not even a guarantee that Nov 2010 will make a difference.

The fact is there is over $600 billion in TARP and stimulus money to spend -which is nothing but a massive Chicago Mafia slush fund.

You still cannot trust the RINO's in the GOP echelons -before and after the elections. They will go into office and do the very things that the statist Democrats espouse and before that will not have the spine to figh hard.

All Obama needs is one big victory and his approval numbers will be up in the high 50s again as the dumbed down electorate forget anything they may have learnt over the past months.

Poor socialist America.

 

 

 

 

344 Buster, I just checked out the TNM.  Unfortunately, they are also promoting the idea of Ron Paul as president of the new republic of Texas. 

345

another revolution is coming, I suggest to you all , pay off all your bills, hucker down, dont spend money on anything unneccessary. STARVE THIS SOCIALIST BEAST

"

“We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights, that among these are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. That to secure these rights, governments are instituted among men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed. That whenever any form of government becomes destructive to these ends, it is the right of the people to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their safety and happiness."

346 Yeah, the THM thing is crap. The best Texas secession is a spontaneous one. A spontaneous one that triggers an avalanche of them. It can work this time because a State can get a nuke.

347 What about the House/Senate reconciliation business? It sounds impossible.

348 TNM, that is.

349 The Chinese have a vote in this, too.

They will not buy our junk bonds to pay for American Communism.

Collapse is inevitable.

Posted by: eman at December 19, 2009 11:29 AM (yf/JJ)

That's why I posted those quotes from the deputy governor of the Bank of China. China is warning these assholes off of this mistake. But this is all about power for the Commiecrat party and their associated minions. Nothing more than making more people dependant on them and govt. largesse which gives them power.

350

dimscum are what they are.  They have never been anything different from what they are.  They will always be what they are -- scum.

Why is anybody surprised?  Anybody who thought, for one second, that a dimscum would stand up against his party on a defining vote is even stupider than the dimscum.  And that's pretty stupid.

That said, I'm not entirely, 100%, opposed to a universal health care plan.  I just don't want the lying, thieving, marxist dimscum setting it up.

The Congress, including the Senate is now ours (patriotic Americans) to lose.  We own it.  It's over.

Can the Republicans screw it up?  Hoo boy, you bet they can.  But no matter how bad the Republicans screw the pooch in the next few months, we stomp the crap out of dims come Novemeber.  No doubt about it.

I doubt it will be enough to change a whole lot.  The dims will filibuster any meaningful change to the health care bill.  But if we (patriotic Americans) fight the good fight, we can win the House (by a landslide) this coming November and win a enough votes to have a simple majority in the Senate.  In 2012, we can possibly establish a filibuster-proof majority in the Senate if we can find enough Republican candidates that don't drool all over themselves when speaking.

And boot Obama.  But the Senate is the key.  We must get a filibuster-proof Senate.  I think it's possible.

Then, maybe we can change the health care deal around to make it workable.

What does it say about the Republican Party when the individual with the biggest set of balls in the Party is a woman?  And an attractive woman at that.

 

Very sad indeed.

351 unveil a final package of changes in the long-debated legislation Who are they kidding? There hasn't been any "debate" on this shit sammitch.

352 Just when you think there is a Democrat with integrity.............

353 I just looked at my wife, shook my head and told her, "I'm not paying. They can come and try to take my money. They won't find any in the banks. I blew it all on ammo".

354 This should pretty much put an end to the belief in such a thing as a "conservative Democrat."  There was a time when the loony left was confined to Massachusetts and California.  Now the entire Democratic party can safely be equated with Michael Moore and Hugo Chavez.  If nothing else, at least now we will have clarity.

355 Let's just pay them all to resign.

100 billion dollars divided up between the Congress and Obama and Biden.
They get their money when they sign a resignation letter and a binding legal agreement to never run for office again and not lobby.

Cheaper than TARP,  WAY cheaper than this bill, cheaper than the stimulus bill, and we could start over with the government.  

356 Doesn't this have to go through reconciliation with the bill from the House?

And why aren't the Republicans reading the bill out loud? What is their problem? Are they afraid they won't be able to sit with the cool kids at lunch?

Useless f*cks.

357

another revolution is coming, I suggest to you all , pay off all your bills, hucker down, dont spend money on anything unneccessary. STARVE THIS SOCIALIST BEAST

 

And pull a Clevon Little on ourselves?  Brilliant.

There's no revolution coming, guys.  Not gonna happen.  At least not in our lifetimes.

America is changing in a big way.  It has been said by many, many politicans, leaders, prechers -- Whatever, that people yearn to be free.

That's crap.  Most people yearn to be ruled.  By a benevolent ruler, to be sure, but they still yearn to be ruled.  To be told what to do, to have someone that will make sure they're not getting a raw deal. (in their minds)

That's always been the case.  Always, always, always.  You can find examples of it in the oldest writings in history, in the Bible, the Quran, the Torah, etc, etc ad nauseam.

With one notable exception -- Americans.  Over 235 years ago we tried something that no other race, no other culture in history has ever tried.  We tried a country where the people rule the Government and not vice-versa.

It's worked for the most part.  For the first 200 years, anyway.  But now, the American Spirit is pretty much gone.  We're not the same people we once were.  Why? is another question entirely and one that can be debated infinitely.  But it's gone.

Now we have a majority of people who don't want a governemnt of the people and by the people.  They only want a government that's for the people.  But our Country?  It doesn't work without the first two -- "By" and "Of."

Can we reclaim our past?  Can we save what's left of our grand experiment?

Maybe.

358 Just a note, what the Democrats are about to enact is NOT universal health care.  It's universal health insurance.  In the same way that you can't drive a warranty.  Health insurance can't make you healthy.  For that you need health CARE.  Get your ration tickets while they last.

See also "Britain" and "Canada".  Natasha Richardson can could have testified to the quality of emergency care in Canada.

359

"There's no revolution coming, guys."

Wanna bet?  Not only was I a democrat, I voted for democrat for over 20 years consistently, theere were only 2 republicans I voted for Reagan and Palin!

and yes, I even voted for Dean in the 2004 primaries and then Kerry in the general. (yes, I know I'm very very sorry)

I am planning on cutting my staff even more than 2 if I have to preemptly, and it looks like I will have to.

THese people have not just pissed off conservatives, they have pissed off disgusted dems who are now independents. There is a reason why the number of independents are much higher thatn either party now.

360

Call me an a$$hole if you'd like, but I just added a whole bunch of motherf*ckers to my ex-friends list.

I'm seriously done with people who think it's they're God-given right to dictate every decision that I make in my personal life (smoking, health care, hate speech, child-rearing, etc).  Anybody who supports this bill is not only a f**king useless moron, but a reprehensible bastard who wants to destroy  personal liberty. 

I'm not going to accept, "They know not what they do" anymore. 

They're all the f**king same, regardless of their intentions.  Very, very un-Christian of me, but I will not associate with these evil, brain-washed a$$holes anymore.  In my mind, these people are the same "types" who bought into and supported Hitler at each and every stop along the way, and then tried to disavow him later.  SICKOS, every one.

361

In my mind, these people are the same "types" who bought into and supported Hitler at each and every stop along the way, and then tried to disavow him later.  SICKOS, every one.

 

Yup.

362 As Ben Nelson basks in the adulation and praise, it is more apparent why these fucks hold out until the last desperate moment. They're attention whores, nothing more, nothing less...unless you count whore-whore as they hold out favors until they get more money. Fucking tools.

363
Right you are, GT. That's why I'm seriously looking for non-procedural, disobedient ideas. Voting the fuckers out won't work. When the hell ever are the most entrenched ones going to get voted out in our gerrymandered districts? Nancy Pelosi is one of the greatest villains in the country, and yet one of the safest seats in Congress. Writing letters and marching and voting aren't going to be enough.

You know, there's an important point there: If we could find a way to eliminate gerrymandering we could obviate a lot of the most leftist districts. A constitutional amendment that says that congressional districts have to be square, or something. Much evil in gerrymandering.

364 The people don't have enough bread??? Then let them watch porn!

365

 johnc_recent_EX-democrat ,

I am very glad you are on board now! I will fight with you to the last man for Palin against these Neo-Marxists even if our cause is a lost one.

366 If only "insurance" and "medical care" weren't intangible services, unlike tea. I'd just like to burn, dump, or otherwise destroy something that the perps had money in.

Hookers and blow?

367

Here is my question...If congress can MANDATE that I MUST buy health insurance under penalty of law, then why can't they also mandate that I buy GE stock, or buy Al Gore's book? Insurance is just another product, so if they can force us to buy it, then really they have total control over our entire lives and can force us to do literally ANYTHING.

 

 

368 You can pay Uncle Sam with overtime,
Is that all you get for your money?

369 Campaign videos of Americans in jail for not obeying the mandate should be interesting.

370 Here is my question...If congress can MANDATE that I MUST buy health insurance under penalty of law, then why can't they also mandate that I buy GE stock, or buy Al Gore's book? Insurance is just another product, so if they can force us to buy it, then really they have total control over our entire lives and can force us to do literally ANYTHING.

If there is an insurance mandate then the next move is to appeal to the Supreme Court on the grounds that there is no constitutional authority to make people buy something. That could hold this travesty up for a while.

371 Remember all those campaign ads declaring "Seniors, REPUBLICANS want to take your Medicare and force you to choose between buying your much needed medications and food!!!"

How me this day is......

372

"if our cause is a lost one"

it is NOT lost

I have a small biz where I employ many recent immigrants or very recent naturalized US citizens. I learn so much from them and ashamed how ignorant of American history I am.

Alhtough in 1776 the dec of independence was written, the war went on for more than 5 years. 1/3 staunchly fought against the british, 1/3 fought for the british, and the remaining 1/3 didn't care one way or another.

We have now a govt that is unresponsive to the public. As far as I am concerned, and millions like they do not represent me or the interests of America.

The US govt is supposed to be bound by the US Constitution, this US govt consists of masters who do not believe that. THIS HAS TO BE FOUGHT.

People are a tipping point, they are being pushed and pushed. and THEY WILL PUSH BACK and SEVERELY!

373 Err, rather "How FULL of me this day is....."

374

I am very glad you are on board now! I will fight with you to the last man for Palin against these Neo-Marxists even if our cause is a lost one.

 

There's nothing 'Neo' about them.  They're the same marxists we've been fighting for the last 100 years.

Let's face it guys and gals -- We lost.  It's over.  We're done.

Sure, we defeated Economic marxism.  We showed it for what it was.  Even the Chinese are moving away from it and into a Technocracy.  Which is more like Fascism than marxism.

But we lost the cultural battle to Social marxism decades ago.  PC isn't about tolerance, it's about the defeat of anything that isn't pre-approved by marxist dimscum in politics, Hollywood and in academe.

Think I'm kidding?  You better look around.  We lost.  Get used to it.

I mean, when a great and patriotic American, such as the owner of this site, goes on a rant chastising posters for being un-PC?  We're done.

When a good and decent man like Senator Allen has his career ruined for calling someone a 'Macaca' (whatever the hell that is) and dimscum can call women 'bitches' and 'whores'?  When a piece of filth like Al Franken can get elected to the hallowed halls of the US Senate?  When Bill Clinton can rape and molest women and get away with it?

I could go on and on, but that would get tiresome.

To avert the inevitable, "What can we do?" question, I'll answer it in advance -- "Nothing.  Just try to survive."

375

One step we might want to take is to start fighting for tougher voting requirements at the state level. 

You want to stop these lunatics - pass strict state laws that require valid identification and address confirmation prior to voting. 

You wonder how Reagan won such huge landslides:  IT WAS PRE-MOTOR VOTER.  People actually had to WANT to vote - they had to be ambitious enough to get themselves registered to vote.  Not so, anymore. 

 

376 312 Kinda' makes you wonder, what all the right wing "purists" who couldn't hold their nose and vote are thinking, right about now, doesn't it. Thanks, for slashing the throats of the American people. Posted by: Franksalterego at December 19, 2009 11:08 AM (GKyIE) With all due respect: fuck off with this shit. I'm sick of it. And, this isn't just directed at you but at everyone who pushes the "stoopid 'purists'" meme with regularity. If you truly desire to hate a voting bloc, then how about directing that hatred toward those who cast their votes with the expressed desire to see the federal government take control of (read: ruin) every U.S. industry? I'm tired of Democrat voters being let off of the hook under the guise of their being too stupid and too brainwashed to vote any other way. "The utter destruction of quality U.S. health care isn't their fault. Oh, no. This is the fault of those damned non-leftist purists." Feh. Hold Democrats accountable for this debacle instead of those who would stand beside you in the fight against the obliteration of our country. And also: Fuck you, 52%.

377 In case you guys don't know, Nelson got a deal where Nebraska's Medicaid increases will be paid by the feds IN PERPETUITY.  Yes, forever and ever the other states will pay Nebraska's share, while the Huskers coast along without a care in the world.

I actually think this is unconstitutional, but I have no faith in the Supreme Court saving us.

378

374-376:

I agree heartily.

379 I blame Bush and the brown people.

380

I agree with whoever said we need a strike day. A few days where people call in sick. A few million people not reporting in for work should make an impact.

The thing I worry about is the GOP will regain control next year and be stupid. Many in the GOP still buy in to earmarks, and when there isn't this big bogeyman to unite against because they have power, will the GOP screw up? They have a hell of a record of messing things up and suddenly losing their spine.

 

381

"We" the people started losing this fight for the soul of the country 50 or more years ago.  What started as the "beat" movement and the civil rights movement (which was co-opted by, but not started by marxists) has evolved into the ultra-PC movement.  They won, the rest of America lost.  Because most of America didn't know they were even in the fight.

Socialists have done a great job of shaping the battlefield for the hearts and minds of the "huddled masses".  They've used political correctness long before it was called that to re-define current terms, and define the new ones.   We've been playing in their house, by their rules, for two generations.

Sadly, they've been so successful that most Americans can't wrap their heads around what exactly is a right, what is a privelege, and what is pure redistribution.  Ask someone where their rights come from, and I'll bet most people say our rights come from the government.

We lost.  But the "war" isn't over.  _{it's just one game, it's a long season, insert sports cliches hee}

382 Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?!?

383 So, Have these democrats pulled off the greatest robbery in history?

384

What is this bill?

From what I gather, it forces everyone to buy health insurance. In other words, it's similar somewhat to when they passed laws requiring car owners to buy, at a minimum, liability coverage. Except, you know, if you don't own a car you don't have to buy insurance. Since everyone has a body they use on a regular basis, you must have coverage. Are you young and not in need of insurance? Fuck you. Buy it or else. Don't want to buy it for whatever reason? Fuck you. Buy it or else. Don't have a job? Fuck you. You must have coverage. It's pure coercion by law. The bete noire of conservative individualism.

The left is also screaming mad about the bill because of the lack of single payer. The bill relies on the insurance companies (those big bad corporations that control the universe) to cover tens of millions of new customers. Of course, the gubmint will cough up billions to pay for insurance on behalf of the parasites...those folks who've never had a job and have no plans on ever working a day in their lives. The left doesn't care. They're mad because the insurance companies get millions of new customers with all the profit that entails.

Cui bono? Insurance companies, for one. They get millions of new customers who must pay for coverage. Whether the government or the individual pays, the insurance company benefits. Even mandates about pre-existing conditions could likely be offset by the influx of waves of new customers.

Cui bono? Lawyers. With tens of millions of newly insured customers comes millions of new opportunities for lawsuits. A significant chunk of profits the insurance companies expected to receive through their new customers will likely go right back out the door to the lawyers suing because Doc Brown left a surgical sponge in Jerry's chest cavity. Or because Jerry didn't get fifty tests to confirm his sinusitis. Whatever. The lawyers are rubbing their hands in glee over the potential for even greater lucrative lawsuits.

Cui bono? The government. Now that they've got their meat hooks deep into the health insurance industry, they can start spreading their poison into the system. More mandates. Price controls and rationing. Politically correct laws passed to guarantee "more" minority access to health care. The government, while not jumping wholly into single payer, is now a major player in your health care decisions. God help us.

We're fucked, basically. The right loses on the grounds of individual freedom and the left loses their desire for an outright socialist program controlling 1/6th of the country's economy. The left will likely lose even more when public outrage results in a thrashing at the polls in 2010 that will make 1994 look like a lover's embrace.

Is that about it? Do I essentially understand what's at stake here? I think so, and it sucks. There are people benefiting from this bill, but it ain't you, me, or your moonbat co-worker. Unless your a government employee or a lawyer involved in health care lawsuits, that is.

 

 

385 #122 - Hope. Please. Ultimately the only thing to do when someone is intent on self-destruction is do our best to mitigate the damage (place blast blankets/shielding), step as far back as possible, let them detonate and pray for their souls. Then the mopping up can begin. The only questions are, how do we mitigate the potential damage and move as many as are willing out of the blast zone. They want death. They demand it. There's no sense in arguing w/ a rabid beast.

386 91 it's become a rhetorical question these days, no? Still...ugh, I should have just gone to bed.

I know, I was thinking the same. I was going to bed and then decided to see what y'all were saying. *sigh*

It's the powerlessness of the people that gets me. Nothing will ever hurt these elitist assholes and that's what sucks the most. Now everyone will know how Californians feel, heh.

Posted by: wherestherum at December 19, 2009 03:54 AM (gofDd)

Why are we powerless? Where is our creativity? Our imagination? When d we simply say, "No."?

387 You know, the GOP might want to stop this bill, because their tactics to date have a small flavor of "we need to steer with an eye towards preserving our future"--which would be okay if it works.

 If it doesn't...well, I've never been too terribly wrapped up with preservation of the establishment anyway, and of course their brilliant leadership got us to this state, so if this bill passes I really have to wonder why we need the GOP at all--I think a third party could do it better, at least for a decade or so before the rot starts sinking in. We would also seem to be no worse off losing with a third party than "winning" with the GOP. So...


GOP--your shield, back with it or on it. I understand the difficulties, don't really care anymore.

Have a nice day.

388 An aside to   CoolCzech (remark of December 19, 2009 02:49 AM)

What really gripes me is:  NOBODY has sued ANYBODY over Obama's leaning on Chrysler's primary bondholders to accept a puny percentage and allow the unions' claims to be elevated over them (instead of a normal and orderly bankruptcy and unwinding of the assets).  NOBODY has sued ANYBODY over Obama's demand that GM's CEO should resign.  This damn healthcare "reform" will pass and all citizens will be required to purchase insurance and nobody's going to call "foul" on that either.

WHY IN THE HELL HAS 11 MONTHS OF UNCONSTITUTIONAL ACTIONS BY THE CURRENT ADMINISTRATION BEEN TOTALLY IGNORED, even by the GOP which stands to benefit if mis- or malfeasance is demonstrated?

What good is a "nation of laws" if nobody calls out the abuse of those laws?

389 62 Seriously, the Sons of Liberty tossed the tea into Boston Harbor. What can we do?

Toss Congress into Boston Harbor? In the dead of winter, not when it's warm out. Posted by: wherestherum at December 19, 2009 03:31 AM
========================================

Count me in, but I don't think I can heft Dirty Harry over the gunwales all by myself...  need more volunteers.

390 A Nonny Mouse

The Indiana Secretary of State did sue because Indiana was a bondholder.

He lost through some legal maneuvering. (And probably someone was paid off,  too.)

But at least our SOS did sue.

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