1 I'm shocked, shocked to find incompetence and unintended consequences here.

2

3
“… We tax everything that moves and doesn’t move.”

-Hillary Clinton

4
Color me shocked. I thought we already knew this?

5 All of the "little" things like this is what galls me the worst about this reform.  I don't see savings; I see new ways for the government to get a piece of my hide.  What good is it if my premiums go down by $200 but my taxes go up by $300?  These idiots are trying as hard as they can to hide things like this.

6 Is Val-U-Rite considered an OTC drug under the HSA rules? Medicinal purposes y'know.

7 it's almost as though Obama really doesn't care about the costs of things.

8 Anybody want to invest in my new company?  I'll be selling a brand of aspirin available by prescription only.

9 Yeah, but George Bush was a nazi!

10

If you like your current health care plan, you can keep it

 

11 Anybody want to invest in my new company?  I'll be selling a brand of aspirin available by prescription only.

Posted by: Snookered at December 26, 2009 12:25 PM (7Vg6Y)

Based on Obama's tax and regulation plans I expect we will see a major expansion of the grey market.

Welcome to the USSA. The government pretends to pay for our healthcare, and we pretend that we get any.

Actually, a better idea might be Mexican health insurance - when the commissar tells you to take the pain pills, this sort of plan would pay for your actual medical care south of the border.

12

If you like your current health care plan, you can keep it

Posted by: BHO at December 26, 2009 12:28 PM (/5Axw)

...until my bill becomes law.

13 Obama tax policy summarized in two sentences:

How much you got sucker?  Hand it over.

14 I just want to apologize to the conservative citizens of America for having an actual disease that will contribute mightly to healthcare costs. I've tried to make this my personal responsibility, but Obummer is taking it out of my hands. Again, I'm sorry.

15 Bring on the death panels!!!

16
Stay away from the Obama aspirin plan!

17 "In other words, Obama is bending the cost curve...up." ------------- Yeah, but it's not *your* cost curve that he cares about, see.

18
The story about taking Tylenol off the shelves was out months ago. But it was dismissed along with "death panels" as misinformation and as a scare tactic.

19 17 "In other words, Obama is bending the cost curve...up." Yes, I can feel it curving right up there...

20 "1 I'm shocked, shocked to find incompetence and unintended consequences here."


what makes you think the consequences are unintended?

21 Democrats have jumped the shark. It's all coming down soon.

22 Ooops...!!!eleventy!!!

23
Democrat philosophy #1:  We can save money by taxing everyone to death - especially those evil greedy rich bastards at the top.  (sure - we wonder why everything falls apart - but no matter, we can continue to tax shit until it dies)

24 We won't need OTC medication anymore one ObamaCare is in place.

Dead people don't buy medication.

As an ancillary perk- all those soon to be funemployed workers from OTC manufacturers will be able to get insurance from the Gubbermint while they look for new, green jobs.

25 Is Val-U-Rite considered an OTC drug under the HSA rules?

Medicinal purposes y'know.

Posted by: IllTemperedCur at December 26, 2009 12:21 PM (L8xnn)

No, but I can sell you some great medicinal weed man.

26 the good news is that this doesn't violate Ear Leader's pledge of "no new taxes".... they are simply rewriting existing tax law, which is a different thing entirely, and you're spreading fishy rumors and using scare tactics if you say or believe anything else, you bitter racists.

27 I just want to apologize to the conservative citizens of America for having an actual disease that will contribute mightly to healthcare costs. I've tried to make this my personal responsibility, but Obummer is taking it out of my hands. Again, I'm sorry. Posted by: St. Agnostica The real point is to Democrats, to Liberals, and as seen through the eyes of ObamaCare, we all contribute mightily to healthcare costs just by being alive. The Democrats are trying to create a human ant colony.

28
Democrat philosophy #2:  If there's a way we (the all-knowing democrat) can kill a free market solution that works and replace it with an unsustainable over-priced on-the-dole government option, let's do it!  For the common good.

29
Remember, if you're dead you can't vote R and you can't do anything about handing out reparations to all the marxist shit-holes (foreign and domestic).

30
Democrat philosophy #3:  Blame everyone else.  Whine about how everyone is a hypocrite.  "whaaaaaaa - the other party spent money"-- so that gives the democrat party endless use of the public credit card.  It's for the common good.

31 I mainly use my HSA to pay for copays and other services that aren't covered by my plan.  Anyone know if I will still be allowed to do that?  I'm guessing....no.

But thanks to one of my loser senators (Harkin), I'll be able to have crap like homeopathy covered. 

I better stop now before I start spitting blood.  I'm sure that won't be covered under ObamaCare. 

32 SURPRISE!  Who would have ever thought that socialism, er anti-capitalism,  would creep into anything Obama did?

33

OTC drugs are much cheaper than those available for prescription

More proof this was never about cost and all about control.

Can't have the proles diagnosis and treating themselves now can we?

34 Once the American people find out exactly what is in our bill they will shower us with wonderment and joy. Where is my wonderment and joy proles?

35
The only benefit I've used in the last 10 years was dental.  This year I'm going to get gloriously ill and have every procedure done that I can while I'm still covered - angioplasty, bonespurs, knee scoped, eyes/ears/nose/throat/colon EVERYTHING.  That way I can go into the coming apocalypse healthy.

36

Not wanting your children to die in poverty is racist!

37 Every Democrat domestic political act is done to promote, expand, and protect Democrat power. These acts work by buying votes, by inciting fear, and by dividing people against each other. It has worked well for them for decades, but the money is now gone and the people are finally catching on (I hope). Soon, the Recovering Republic will be born.

38 I use that money almost entirely for paying for things like Claritin, Tylenol, Neosporin, bandages, and Tylenol PM.

You selfish bastard. We will now be able to treat a dozen potential Democrats illegals with the money our plan saves on your stupid Tylenol and Neosporin.

39

1 I'm shocked, shocked to find incompetence and unintended consequences here.

I'm shocked, shocked that you think this is unintended

40 I don't think that an attack on the current independence and self-reliance that we currently enjoy for even a small portion of our medical care is in any way 'unintended' by this administration.

41 Dang Straights, see you and yours at the doctor's, because we're gonna do the exact same thing. 

42

13 Obama tax policy summarized in two sentences:

How much you got sucker?  Hand it over.

My version:

Obama's new Tax Return On A Postcard:

1. Write down how much money you have.

2. Send it in.

43 'its like the special olympics of healthcare or something.'

44 Watching Harry Reid getting raped and then eaten by a Kodiak Bear would bring wonderment and joy to most taxpaying Americans. 

45 From an ABC article....."Obama's Hawaiian Christmas Day holiday was interrupted when he was called to deal with "an attempted act of terrorism,"

How do you think Obama "dealt" with it?  I bet he put on his superman underwear and .......

I mean, c'mon........

46 Anyone that opposesses taxin FSAs is akin to those that supported slavery and segregation.

47
How do you think Obama "dealt" with it?

First, he blamed the passengers for acting stupidly. Then he finished his waffles.  Then he released a statement that basically said "Present".

48 #1, I doubt it's an unintended consequence. HSAs/FSAs are all about choice (with the really annoying caveat that you can't use them to pay for actual insurance). This bill is not about choice. When the "insurance" costs skyrocket because of the anti-choice nature of this bill, an HSA with no insurance would be an attractive option for healthier people. Yeah, that would be illegal, but I can imagine someone who almost never needs a doctor (like me, and apparently Gabriel) looking at their monthly insurance bill, looking at the HSA/FSA account, and wondering why I can't just put some or even all of the former into the latter, and getting all up in their business about it. Or it could just be the simpler, they bring down costs by empowering the customer--it's their money, after all, so they shop wisely, or at least some of them will. This bill is specifically intended to put all cost control measures in the hands of government bureaucrats. It isn't just the OTC benefit that's being severely restricted. According to Jim Lindgren at the Volokh Conspiracy, the bills also further restrict how much can go into the accounts and may also cause them to trigger higher taxes.

49 So the Repub party has become the party of racism, slavery, and not taxing FSAs. You are truely the party of evil.

50 The saddest thing about this incredibly destructive, Stalinist idiot we have in the White House is that he is too stupid to understand that his policies are going to hurt those who can least afford it. Redistribution might work eventually, but by then the pot will have shrunk, in part because rich people (you know, the ghouls who steal from the poor) will figure out how to deal with this much more effectively than the rest of the country.

51

Yet another tax levied on the 'have's'.

If you've got it, they plan on taxing it. 

This Bill is well designed to return a majority of the wealth accumulated in Private hands back to the Gov't in under three generations.  Watch the Death Tax and related taxes on wealth transfer. (Obviously, these guys are not good at Chess and/or Poker.)

52
The goal of socialism is communism.  - Vladimir 'Chuckles' Lenin

53
Once the American people find out exactly what is in our bill they will shower us with wonderment and joy. Where is my wonderment and joy proles?

Posted by: Harry Reic at December 26, 2009 12:47 PM (V/EYZ)

Right here at the end of my boot Harry.

54
I wouldn't shower Reid with piss if he was on fire. 

Gasoline, maybe.

55

Of course, Obamacare is about controlling and restricting your access to healthcare. Liberals create scarcity so they can use the rationing to retain power and control people's behavior. Laws and policies created by liberals kill human life.

56 You'd almost think they'd like to be rid of the middle class.

57

54
I wouldn't shower Reid with piss if he was on fire. 

Gasoline, maybe.

Show me the man who can piss gasoline and I will show you a government agency attempting to restrict his water intake for the good of some worthless wildlife.

 

58

Redistribution might work eventually, but by then the pot will have shrunk, in part because rich people (you know, the ghouls who steal from the poor) will figure out how to deal with this much more effectively than the rest of the country.

Redistribution only works for those doing the redistributing...everyone else gets a huge cup of Assfuck.

59 However, if you know too much, aspirin is still free.

60

Back in 2004, I had to take my daughter to a specialist for something. The specialist was located at a different military hospital than the one we usually went to.

The doctor gave me a prescription so I went to the pharmacy department and waited in a long line...only to be handed non-prescription medicine.

So there I am, in the middle of Walter Reed, surrounded by people missing limbs, using up your tax dollars and making somebody with real problems wait longer in line for absolutely no reason.

Coming soon to the rest of you!

61

I've had an HSA for years.  It works very well -- and it is especially nice if you have a couple of "healthy" years in which you don't need to spend much money on medical things and can accumulate a balance in your account.  Then you can keep building up a hefty balance and keep rolling it over from year to year to year (unlike an FSA where you have to use it that year or lose it).

With an HSA, you are insured in case anything catastrophic happens and you need "major medical protection" above your deductible.

But that is too reasonable a plan for Democrats, because it is "everyone pays for himself"...and doesn't REDISTRIBUTE THE WEALTH.

62

An interlude.

63

Seniors, Women, Minorities hit hardest!

Somebody had to say it.

64

When I had an FSA, I used it to pay for braces. It was a nice break. And therefore, obviously evil.

65 Since you have to produce ID for cold tablets, Is this still considered OTC?..Of course it is, silly me. Quaaludes will be OTC under this plan.

66

This is the kind of shit where I want to be there to see the look on liberals' faces when they realize what they've done to this country by voting for Socialists.  Holding a red & blue HOPE poster is a lot more fun than holding an FSA Guide while some beauracrat shakes her head at you and says NOPE.

Dirty, stupid hippies.

67 64 When I had an FSA, I used it to pay for braces. It was a nice break. And therefore, obviously evil." You supported Segregation too didn't you?

68 Crusty, a lot of them either had health plans from the government (Medicaid or some other state plan), or didn't have health plans because....well....how the hell were they supposed to get really cool threads or an iPod if they paid a premium to an insurance company? 

69 But they can't clear up that legendary, eternal '$30 Billion Fraud' in Medicare.

70 I'll be out stabbing brown people for the rest of the afternoon. You morons have a great day !

71 He was alerted three hours later because he is not the kind of guy you wake at three in the morning (Hawaiian  time).

72 Well, at least they made it easy for a subsequent Congress to overturn certain especially odious provisions of the bill, right?

....right?

73

You supported Segregation too didn't you?

Oh, yeh. It was before I was born, but that fact doesn't limit my evil-ish-ness.

74 I work for a firm with about 140 people.  The majority of which are on the company health plan.  The company health plan has a nice HSA function that allows you to buy all kinds of medical stuff, including non-perscription items and charge it to that account.  That program is completely destroyed with this legislation. 

Tell me again that obama said that if I liked my health insure plan it wouldn't change?

75 Democrats have nothing to worry about........they don't PAY taxes.

76 What can't be overturned via elections will be fixed by a very angry public in one way, shape or other.  Bank on it.  I think States will start to dust off their recall procedures (at least ones that have it).  States that don't, well, expect their tax paying constituents to vote with their feet (see CA and MI).  I don't even want to think about the violence aspect of it yet but it has been in our history.  Not too long ago, politicians were killed and I'm talking about the ones that don't have a lot of protection.  I'm not advocating it, but you can bet there will be those who will.

77 6 Is Val-U-Rite considered an OTC drug under the HSA rules?

Medicinal purposes y'know.

Only if your name is Dr. Leonard McCoy. But does Val-U-Rite import Romulan ale?

Also: is a wee bout o' shore leave covered under ObamaCare?

78

When I apologized for my disease, I honestly meant it. Of course I can't help my lot in life, but this maniacal bill puts a major guilt trip on anyone who has the decency to oppose it and yet is still afflicted in whatever way. I'll be expecting Obummercare to cover antidepressants for types like me who get to suffer that guilt.

Fuck Obumass and the Hershey Highway he rode in on. Fuck that son of a liberal bitch. I am EVIL and hope he gets a long, painful. incurable cancer like my husband and f-i-l did.

This is depressing the hell out of me.

79

I can at least take solace in not adding to the death rolls just yet. I have a son who needs a mother in this fucked-up world.

That ought to piss off the marxists, wanting to thin the herd like they do. I live in DEFIANCE unless the gas chambers for the "undesirables" crank up.

80 We had to do it this way because the Republicans never offered any alternative ideas of their own at any part of the process.

Our hands were tied.  Racists.

81 The saddest thing about this incredibly destructive, Stalinist idiot we have in the White House is that he is too stupid to understand that his policies are going to hurt those who can least afford it. Redistribution might work eventually, but by then the pot will have shrunk, in part because rich people (you know, the ghouls who steal from the poor) will figure out how to deal with this much more effectively than the rest of the country.

He doesn't care about the pot shrinking. He's said as much. He cares about fairness.

He understands economics and wealth creation. He just doesn't like it.

82 Of course OTC medications and items are going to be excluded for your FSA.  I've used every dime of my FSA on plastic surgery expenses for years, none of that is OTC.

83 This can't be true cuz the president said my taxes aren't going up if I make less than $250K.

84 THis is exactly the opposite of what should happen. Reason - expanding HSA coverage would work. It's a threat to socialist control.

85 IN OTHER WORDS ...

86

The new Litmus Test for understanding what seems to be govt. insanity?

Does it fit the goals of Cloward-Pivens and Socialism?  If so, IT'S BY DESIGN.

87

This is about a hell of a lot more than just taxes. As is, calculating the amount of money you need in an FSA is damn near impossible because you never know what types of surprises linger around the corner. Unlike HSA, FSA accounts do not rollover and any funds unused at the end of the calendar year are forfeited entirely. As is, I can always feel safe in saving because if I have a light year, I can drop by CVS the last week of December and stock up on OTC supplies.

This means fewer people contributing and those who do contribute will contribute less for fear of forfeiting OUR OWN FUCKING MONEY at the end of the year.

I hate that son-of-a-bitch.

He won't be happy until he has destroyed every fucking opportunity to save a dime.

If they really want to encourage Americans to invest in their own health care, eliminating bullshit restrictions such as those imposed on FSAs might go a long way towards that end.

88

jmflynny

Have you noticed that the WH now wants to confiscate the savings and investments of all hospitals, etc.?  That money NEEDS to be redistributed to the ObamaCare plan.

Seriously.

89 This is why there was a Christmas rally.  The preks are FOR the insurance companies and against the people.  Which is funny cause the libs are all saying "hmmm" and then saying "well I'm sure there is a reason he is doing this", "he must be doing something for the poor"...yada yada yada....they make excuses when things are becoming as plain as the nose on their face.

90

89 Have you noticed that the WH now wants to confiscate the savings and investments of all hospitals, etc.?  That money NEEDS to be redistributed to the ObamaCare plan.

I seriousy expect the WH to confiscate private bank accounts and investments of citizens, too - before any major election. I seriously do. I'm all optimistic like that. But hey, why not - we'll just be fucked some more. Can't fuck the 'thuglicans enough, Barry the motherfucker marxist must say.

Meanwhile, I've got some spaghetti to make. I didn't feel like stew for tonight.

91

Nope, Litmus, I missed that one.

Damnit all!

Americans get all up in arms about flag burning but the Constitution is being incinerated before our eyes and, what?

_{*chirp chirp}

92 Anyone here dabble in black magic cuz', you know, I'm not touching the stuff but if, say, someone else wanted to summons the spirits of Jefferson and Adams, I wouldn't complain.

93 At some point in the (probably) distant future, historians are going to look back and realize that Karl Marx was the most evil and destructive person in human history.

94 The feds control student loans now and home loans; they will control credit cards when B. Frank gets his bill through and our medical care as soon as they get that public option put back in.

This is scary. This is Venezuela.

95 A question about the health care bill reconciliation process between the House and the Senate. After reconciliation, does the new bill also have to pass a debate cloture vote in the Senate? I haven't been able to easily find an answer to that question.

96

I honestly don't even think the word "socialist" is on the minds of the marxists in the WH. I know the words are intermingled a lot, but this looks bigger and badder. Most of congress, sure, they may well have socialism in mind. But...

Consider me the voice of doom. I don't mean to frighten anyone with my  pessimism. Just one voice. I would be glad to be proven wrong.

97 You mean, this tax hike hits people making less than $200,000 per year?

98 Screw restraining the Richard Cranium setting himself on fire to bring a plane down.
Twist the head off of the next Democrat you see on a flight.
May not stop them from voting - how many of them have been using that useless appendage anyway? - but it will make you and your fellow American Constitutionalists on-board feel better.

99

Democrats hate tax incentives or tax-advantaged savings accounts of any kind.  They want to hand you a check or give you free medicine so you will be grateful to your rulers for it.  It's just like housing vouchers - Democrats hate them because people can use them anywhere; they want all the poor people in government-built housing so they can cut the ribbon when it opens and then load everyone up on the bus easily on Election Day.

I'm waiting for the next Obama budget that proposes the elimination of the 401(k).  You know it's coming. 

They. Do. Not. Trust. You. With. Your. Own. Money.

100 The biggest F-U to the American people came in the form of 31 Democrats and 17 Republicans voting against the Prescription Drug Importation Amendment. It would have allowed Americans to buy prescription drugs from Canada, Australia, Japan and a few other nations that utilized a similar screening process that the FDA uses (of course the liars voting against it said the drugs could be dangerous, and in 2002 when it came up again they used 9/11 and terrorism as a pretext to vote against it). It would have been the only concrete thing one could point to in this disaster called healthcare reform, that actually lowered the cost of healthcare for Americans. But the reason that 31 Democrats voted against it was because the Obama administration cut a deal with Big Pharma, we won't support such an amendment if you back our healthcare bill. The same deal was cut with insurance companies on preexisting conditions, we'll allow you to charge up to 50 percent more on premiums for people with pre-existing conditions and we'll also mandate that every American has to buy health insurance or go to jail, thus giving the health insurance companies 30 million more customers. This entire legislative process is a joke, plain and simple, I say throw all the bums out and let's start over, no lobbyists allowed.

101 Hmmmm.

Soooooo.  An individual mandate where the federal government requires you on pain of incarceration to buy medical insurance is ok to lefties -but- checking the identity of would-be voters before letting them vote is ... not ok to lefties?

Isn't the former rather more onerous than the latter?  Isn't forcing people to spend thousands of dollars quite a bit more akin to a poll tax than requiring people to have a freely available zero-cost piece of identification?

I'm not really seeing how one is acceptable but the other is beyond the pale.

102 Complete obedence to obama or youll get ne medcine for granny

103 Thanks once again for taking one for the team ace. You couldn't provide enough hookers and blow to get me to watch him.

104 Thanks for sharing this! Bishop Jordan Personal Growth