December 09, 2009
— Ace Actually, I hope this only goes for like 200. Hopefully this will make some sense, smooth over ruffled feathers, and end all the arguing.
Long story short, if you want to skip completely: Just include a working email address you check every once in a while in you off-color comments so I can privately address you if warranted.
This is like the longest thing I've ever written -- Good Lord, but I do go on and on -- but I think it's kind of good. I'd appreciate a full reading, at least if you were one of the people upset by yesterday's post. First of all, what I detected from a couple of commenters -- hobgoblin and kdabear -- was an anger that they didn't like my scolding tone, and didn't like that I was scolding the site generally. And that the coded message of the last post was "You're all a bunch of racists."
Taking them backwards:
1) I don't think "You're all a bunch of racists." I didn't say that in the post and I didn't intend to imply it. Whether I did imply it is up to you, but I didn't intend to. If I really wanted to call you racists, I could have; I've done it with different people before. I assure you I am not sitting here chewing my fingernails and tearing out my hair at all the haters I am forded to associate with.
I was talking about one thing -- jokes that go too far, and I did mean that. It's about jokes that go too far (and, more often: jokes that don't really go too far, individually, but so many of them that the cumulative effect is sort of off-putting).
2) I was scolding the site generally, and as Cuffy and Entropy suggested, that's a stupid thing to do. Why scold everybody when obviously I have in mind 10 guys?
That's completely true. Here's the problem, though: I don't know who is who on this site. I don't have emails for most of you, and people are always sockpuppeting, so when I see something I don't like, it's usually under the name "Barney Frank" or something. So who do I write to?
That's the frustrating thing, here: I have a complaint, but I have no earthly idea how to actually contact the person I want to caution. And very often I only get to this stuff when the threads are long dead, so what's the point including a caution in post 348 of a post that died out 12 hours ago? What are the odds the guy I'm talking to decided to revisit that post at 1:00 am?
So here's the solution: If you're one of the people who does edgy jokes, please include an email address in your posts. Doesn't have to be your real email -- could just be a hotmail account you just opened. But check it, you know, twice a week or something when you're actively posting, and actively posting edgy stuff. That way, if I have a problem with something you wrote, I can write to you specifically, and avoid all this drama.
And, on top of that, when these things are done privately, there is almost no drama at all, because no one feels called out, and I don't cop this sanctimonious attitude a lot of you were displeased with. I remember one exchange a year ago with one of the few commenters whose email I actually know. He said something either on the line or very close to it, and this, pretty much, was the entirety of the exchange:
Me: "Come on, man. You're killing me here with this."
Him: "Oh ok. I'll watch it."
That was it. Done and done. Not really a problem since. (In fact, I think he's overly restrained, because he never says anything even close to the line anymore.)
But I can't do that if I don't know who the heck you are because you've never emailed me, or you have emailed me, but your email is completely different from your screenname, and on top of that you're sockpuppeting Barney Frank.
So: New rule. Create some free email account and enter the address in your comment box if you're a frequent commenter who does edgy stuff. (Yes, you can still sockpuppet -- sockpuppeting is fun, just let me know a working email address for you in case I need to talk to you about it.)
Check every few days, twice a week. Once a week is fine, actually. Most of this stuff -- as I'l explain in a moment -- isn't really so bad that I need you to stop what you are doing and make amends immediately. It's more like: Chill on it a little, okay? And if it is so bad I have to do something right away, I can delete the post and call you out in the thread.
That way all this can be done in private and no one gets called out and I'm not sitting here scolding 10,000 people as if they're all unreconstructed racists.
I think that will solve the problem, by and large. There will be non-regulars, people who come over from other sites, who don't know about this and so I won't be able to get in touch with them; but hopefully they'll be few enough in number and can be dealt with in the thread, if need be.
So, that's it, that's all you have to read. If you want to read more (and I know how much you love being scolded!), I can try to explain what I'm talking about more. I think my explanation is pretty good -- and will go down a lot easier than yesterday's post -- but if you don't want to read it, skip it, just make that hotmail address and include it in your comment box.
Apology: I'm not a Professor of Comedy. Howard Stern used to make fun of Chevy Chase for discoursing on comedy, like a genius, like an asshole. "Professor of Comedy," he called him, and I laughed and laughed at that fitting monickers.
Obviously, here, I became the Professor of Comedy, and I'm hardly even in Chevy Chase's league. (Well, I'm in his league now, because my fucking mailman's in his league now.) But at least Chevy Chase was at one time one of the funniest people on the face of the earth. But even he can't get away with being The Professor of Comedy.
So my "This isn't funny and I know what's funny" gambit did not pay off. Some things are funny to some people and not to others. I do think I have a pretty sharp sense of humor, but that is hardly something I can claim is a universal comprehension of what's funny. Asshole move on my part.
But Here Is What I Meant: Part One. Rote Jokes are a Waste of the Precious Resource of Giving Offense. You know how many times you can say the f-word in a PG-13 movie? Once. (You may think it's zero, but it's not: You can say it once, so long as it's not used in the literal sense, and so long as the rest of the movie isn't already bucking for an R rating as it is.)
If I'm a director aiming for a PG-13 movie, and I have a bunch of actors who keep improvising the f-word into their lines, I'm going to get frustrated. I can pull each of them aside and say "Look, you can't all say the f-word," and each will tell me, "I'm not 'you all.' I'm one guy. You can say it once."
And I insist, "Well, yeah, but you can't all say it," and the actor says, "Eh, I felt it was what my character would say at this point. It's a choice. Talk to the other guys."
I sort of feel that this is part of my problem here. I keep giving this vague sort of rule that you can go there if it's justified, because, seriously, I don't like categorical bans. For one thing, I'm not abiding by a categorical ban; I, in some circumstances, want to reserve the right to go into edgy/offensive territory if I think -- think; guess, really -- it's "worth it" in terms of a joke.
And if I can't live by a categorical, bright-line ban, it's stupid to impose it on anyone else, and on top of that, I don't really want to play babysitter enforcing these dumb over-inclusive categorical bans.
But what I'm trying to say is: Offensive material is like the f-bomb when you're shooting for a PG-13 movie. Yeah, there is some amount of tolerance for it; you can get away with it a little. But if there's too much of it....
I just sort of feel like what I consider the limited amount of offensive material that I think is permissible is often being squandered on frankly lame jokes, and, well, I'm selfish. I want to use some of those precious resources. But I usually feel like I can't, because when I go into a thread I often see, in my head, what looks like already too much of that stuff. And I don't want to add to it and pile on, and I don't want to start a whole new chain of riffing on that particular subject, so I self-censor.
Look, I cannot tell you exactly what is funny, and what is not funny. I also cannot tell you what is "worth it," what is funny enough to justify giving some offense.
I can't. It's stupid of me to suggest I can.
But I can suggest something along these lines: You know, of course, that not every joke you yourself right is a gem. Not every joke I write is a gem, of course. A lot of my jokes are clappers or just plain suck.
You can decide for yourself if you've constructed a gem. But please -- let's avoid the truly rote jokes when it comes to sensitive areas. Because what is happening isn't that this or that joke is so bad my innate liberal PC urbanized blue-state antenna goes all aflutter. What the problem usually is is that it's not this or that one joke; it's that there are now six or seven jokes making the same basic point. It's the cumulative effect of a series of cheap jokes -- none of which, on it's own, so offensive that I need to start shrieking -- but in totality, as string of kind of pointlessly rote jokes looks like a bunch of people who just sort of don't like queers, and are willing to toss out any old lame joke to make that clear.
Note I say "looks like that," not is like that. I don't think most people intend any offense with any of these. It's just that when you go into a thread and see a string of them, and none seem particularly inspired, it looks like the value of these jokes is not in their actual humorous content, but in the simple declaration that gay is bad.
So, re: jokes, again. Not all jokes are gems. You know that. Barney Frank showing up in every third thread to say he's just gotten done going down on a dude? Pretty rote. Same thing with Andrew Sullivan popping up all over the place to tell us the sort of stuff he enjoys doing with his weekend.
Some of these are funny. Some of them really are. But a lot of them are just rote, and are just making the point that these guys are gay, which is.... obvious.
Here's a funny one. Not sure why this is funny. I think I know who wrote this, but I'm not sure, so I won't assign credit that could be a false attribution. I'll let him take credit if it's his. Regarding Andrew Sullivan's odd assertion that he is beyond-expert in matters of human reproduction...
"Someone needs to explain to Andrew Sullivan that is favorite beverage is sometimes used to make babies."
Offensive? Yup, and not just due to the gay thing; it's a very graphic sexual image. This is not the sort of joke your Mom will send you amidst the cute-cat pictures.
Homophobic? Eh, you can make that case.
Funny? Yup.
I don't know why I think it's funny, really, except that it is so deadpan and dry and ridiculous it makes me laugh. I would note, though, that the target here is not just Sullivan's sexuality; it's not just "ha-ha, Sullivan does gay stuff." It's also the funny understatement of trying to explain to Sullivan -- who fancies himself as Robert Langdon, freelance gynecologist to the stars, in The DaVinci DNA Code -- the most elementary stuff about "his favorite beverage."
Another gag that got me recently -- I forget how it went, exactly -- was that Andrew Sullivan knew all about giving birth, because he'd just given birth, via his intestinal tract, to "the twins," a gerbil and a hamster.
Again, I can't say why this is funny and therefore a gem. I have no idea. It's so childish. Maybe it's the childishness of it that gets me. But I think it's that it includes a novel and unexpected element -- "The twins." That's new. I've seen a lot of gerbil jokes, but to me, "the twins" was new, and novel, and also sort of funny.
So rather than put this down as "decide if it's funny or worth it," how about this as rule? Don't go there unless there's something new or novel about it. I mean, there just is very little point in doing the ten billionth Barney Frank has sex with guys joke. It's not going to make anyone laugh. It's almost a pure repetition, with one or two minor word changes.
Again, it's not that any particular gag is usually so awful and offensive I cringe and start calling up Nancy Pelosi for advice on how to combat homophobia. It's that there's often kind of an indiscriminate spray-and-pray attitude with jokes that really should be used with more care and more judgment, and when that care and judgment isn't exercised, we've got a thread where 10 of the first 40 comments are about Barney Frank's or Andrew Sullivan's sexual proclivities and little more than that.
Does that make sense? If you've genuinely got something that might be new or surprising, hey, go for it. If it's purely rote, or almost purely rote, try to understand you are consuming the precious resource of being occasionally offensive, using that up, and using it up to no particular effect. You're not "picking your spots," you're just tossing it out there randomly.
Blitzing, as it were, on every down. You don't blitz on every down You blitz when you think you can catch your target unaware.
Again, if you're tossing the rote put-downs out there. I don't mean "you" as in everybody. I mean "you" as in "if you specifically are doing this."
Plus, then I can't toss out my own occasional gay jokes. And I guess I kind of resent that. I kind of resent having to be the Good Boy on the site because too many people are too frequently playing the Bad Boy. I want to be the Bad Boy too on occasion.
Here's What I Meant: Part Two. Riffing Can Get Out of Hand. The best thing about this site is the riffing. That's what I love about it, that's what most people love about it. Riffing. Playing the game of can-you-top-this with jokes.
I forget which thread it was, but I think either Warden or AndrewR commented on a particularly great riffing thread, "That thread was better than sex."
When I was a kid I riffed all the time. Your Mama jokes. In college I did it still. Not Joe Mama jokes, but some other topic where we just kept playing can-you-top-this or pick-up-the-premise-and-go-even-further-with-it. As they said in the Zoolander dance-off: Duplicate, and elaborate.
I didn't have that, for a long time, until I started this site. Okay, every once in a while with friends. But not nearly as much as I'd had in high school or college. I missed it. I missed sitting around with a bunch of funny people just tossing out jokes, one trying to top the other, one going a little further than the other.
I think that's what a lot of people like about this site, and what they're afraid of losing, if I'm too much of a martinet about joking around.
But here's the thing. When you're riffing, it being a game of can-you-top-this, you can either top it by 1) being funnier or wittier or 2) being more extreme.
My "Your mama is so loose..." jokes usually wound up with claiming "your mama" uses an aircraft carrier as a gynecologist's chair and gets probed by landing F-15's. Or that she uses the Chrysler Building as a marital aid.
Funny? Well, no; I was in 9th grade. Was funny to a 9th grader. But certainly hard to top in terms of explaining how oversized your mama's generative organs were. I mean, I'm saying your mama douches with the Exxon Valdez. You really can't top me in terms of pure scale.
Since it's hard to just "be funnier or wittier" -- at some point, after all, someone has the "thread winner," which really cannot be topped -- "be more extreme" becomes the primary method of topping a joke.
And the problem, in this context, is that when you're already dealing with an edgy subject matter, "Be more extreme" rapidly hits the point of very sharply diminishing returns, because we all were already kind of pushing the edge from the outset, and now the only place to go is... over the edge.
And what does the next guy do as an encore?
This is a dynamic which I'd like to see people keep an eye on. Yes, I undertand the whole point of this is to top the next guy. That's the object of the game. And I understand that going more and more hyperbolic, more and more extreme, is usually how the game is played.
But this is how I think that it happens sometimes that a bunch of people start out in a sort of innocent, inoffensive (or at least not that offensive) place but wind up being over the line.
No one meant to give offense or go over the line. No single party really intended to jump ugly. But the rules of the game say you have to go further and further and then, with no one actually meaning for it to happen, now we've got some ugly stuff going on here.
So keep an eye on this. In this area, we don't have full freedom as we might have with, say, Cool Facts About Dick Cheney, to just keep getting progressively more extreme and offensive. The nuclear button we can hit in other riffs -- "I will now go so hyperbolic and offensive and extreme that no one can possibly top me" -- really shouldn't be hit in this situation, because it's just not worth it it. It winds up not provoking laughs but cringes.
I mean, I know, sometimes, why we wind up here: Because the only thing left is shock humor, forbidden humor. It's the only card left to play.
I get that. But it's just not worth it to win the point in this particular riff by going that route. Anyone can kind of "win" this by going to that forbidden place at any time; winning is, then, kind of easy, if you really want to "win," so it's really not much of a game if that's the button that winds up getting pushed.
This sort of implicates another pet-peeve: The extreme death-wish thing, or the extreme genocide thing. These aren't jokes at all. Instead, they are cries of frustration. I don't like this guy, and I want people to know how much I don't like him, so I'm going to go extreme and toss out a death-wish on him. Or Muslims are pissing me off, and I am very frustrated, so I'm going to go to the "nuke them all from orbit" route.
Again, this stuff is kind of obvious. Anyone, really, could say this at any time. It's hardly as if this is the first time someone's gotten the brilliant idea that it would be sort of novel to wish death on one's opponents.
Worth it? No. What's the point? You win the "extreme" lottery here, but, really, anyone could have "won" this dubious honor any time they chose. So save the extreme comments borne out of anger and frustration. We all know that such thoughts are lurking out there in the ether. It's not like anyone's going to praise your death-wish comment. No one's going to say Well finally someone ad the balls to say it! It's not a question of balls. It's just a question of losing your shit, which anyone can do any time.
Which brings me to:
What I Really Meant To Say. Part Three: "Jokes" Born of Anger. How many times have you really made a funny joke when you were hot-angry? Like, zero? Maybe once?
When I'm angry I don't tell funny jokes; I know that. I know when I'm angry I don't say humorous or witty things. I say angry things. Often ugly things.
I really want to caution against "jokes" made not in good humor but in ill humor. Because they're not jokes. They're angry statements, pure and simple -- but you have plausible deniabity with a "joke."
"Hey, I didn't really mean that." Well, what did you mean?
If you're going to say something sort of angry and extreme, at least recognize that's what you're doing, and say it seriously, so everyone knows exactly what you mean -- and you know exactly what you mean.
"Jokes" are fast and cheap and easy -- we can dash one off before we even have time to think about what we're saying, which is the danger. They take one second of writing and zero seconds of actual thought. Now, if you really want to say something that might be considered over the line, at least put more thought into it than a One Second Wonder joke demands.
One thing that bothered me recently -- Kemp said this, about the judge who released the Seattle Cop Killer -- was "I bet you he's black," or something. This wasn't a joke, really, but it has the same element of one-second thoughtlessness that bothers me about some jokes.
What does the statement "I bet you he's black" mean? What is the point? Is there a suggestion that blacks shouldn't be judges? Someone might say, "Of course I didn't mean that!" but the follow-up question is: "Okay, you didn't mean that; but what did you mean?"
I am guessing (I haven't asked) that Kemp's answer would be, "Well, to be perfectly hones, I don't know what I meant, really. I was just sort of generally frustrated, I guess by PC attitudes about criminal justice and how that infects society and leads to death and mayhem..."
And etc. And note there that there is nothing at all wrong with that statement. The trouble is that the hastily written expression of pure frustration didn't say that. It could have meant any of a dozen things, half of those meanings being objectionable, or at least eyebrow-raising. And yet if Kemp had compose his thoughts, taken more than one second to vent, he probably would have just ended up saying something perfectly sensible, and no one would have been wondering, "What's he trying to say with that?"
Anyway, that is my problem with a lot of "jokes" that are coming, it seems, not from a humorous place but an angry place. I keep seeing these not-really-jokes and wondering, "What is this guy trying to say here?"
Which is again why I keep urging: Say it seriously. If you have a serious point to make, especially if a serious point born of anger, at least let people know precisely what you do mean, and don't mean.
A "joke" is a particularly poor vehicle for such expressions because it's so sloppy and thoughtless and vague. Fingers tap the keys much faster than the engaged mind works through implications. The "joke" could mean everything; it could mean nothing. Who knows. But a lot of such jokes are pregnant with bad implications, and really, if you don't mean the bad implication, take care not to imply the bad implication in the first place.
When you're treading on treacherous ground, don't make people guess at where you really intend to stand. Be clear about it.
Old Dirty B/tard said something like, "I allow myself to go ugly when I'm talking about Andrew Sullivan, because I hate Andrew Sullivan."
To which I can only say: Join the club. I hate that guy. I have the exact same impulse ODB has: I want to say something as vicious and nasty as possible, because I despise him so much.
But that's a problem, because a lot of the vicious, ugly things I can say about Sullivan are also insulting for hundreds (?) of readers I don't wish to insult. I want to insult Sullivan specifically; I don't want a lot of collateral damage as I basically impugn dozens of readers for sharing Sullivan's sexuality. "MilkyLoads/RawPowerGlutes"? Good, vicious stuff that implicates Sullivan specifically. Just noting he's a homosexual and laughing at it? Hits far more targets than I intend, doesn't it? Instead of going in with a scalpel, I'm swinging wildly around with a hammer in big circles.
I really do have this urge, every single time. I wind up editing these posts a lot as a I scrub out my first nasty words and try to clean them up. (An advantage I acknowledge I have and you don't.)
I want to say the most awful things about Sullivan because he deserves it. He does deserve it. He deserves any damn thing I can throw at him.
The problem is, a lot of gay readers don't deserve to be collateral damage in the mockery. And when you'e "joking" from a place of pure anger, you usually fail to make that distinction, because, well, let's face it: No one's exactly thinking clearly when they're hot-blooded. No one's really sitting there carefully calibrating possible responses, like the Terminator, carefully choosing "Fuck you, asshole" from his menu of options, only after calculating a 94% probability that this is the correct response that will yield the desired outcome.
So, really: Watch it with alleged "jokes" when you'e really in no joking mood at all. These "jokes" don't read like jokes. Because they're not jokes. They are brief and ill-considered expressions of anger, and that's precisely how they read. And if you want to be angry -- do so. There's a lot to be angry about. But please at least take the time to compose your angry thoughts carefully, and not just use a "joke" because it's quick and dirty and you don't have to give it much thought. In these cases, that's exactly when you probably should be giving more thought to your posts than a quickie "joke" demands.
I really want to stress: I have an edit button that you don't have. I'm aware of that. You may or may not notice, but a lot of my uglier rants get scrubbed within minutes to be more passable and more PG-13. I know that I have this advantage that you don't; I'm not saying I'm better than you.
I just have better functionality in my posting features.
But, you know, you not having that golden Undo Button that I do, you're only going to get one chance to say what you mean. Just keep that in mind. And the angrier you are, the better idea it is to count to ten and consider how you want to express that anger, and not just dash it off without thought.
It's like cooking: You can always add more spice. What you can't do is take out spice that's already been put in the pot. Once it's there, it's there. Too much of that and the meal turns sour and unpalatable.
Posted by: Ace at
01:30 PM
| Comments (1842)
Post contains 4762 words, total size 26 kb.
Also..Oh, sure. Wake up at 5:30 and lecture everyone. Thanks, mom!
Posted by: lorien1973 at December 09, 2009 01:33 PM (IhQuA)
Posted by: nickless at December 09, 2009 01:34 PM (MMC8r)
Posted by: Unclefacts, Summoner of Things, Stuff, and Other Things at December 09, 2009 01:35 PM (erIg9)
Posted by: kansas at December 09, 2009 01:38 PM (mka2b)
Posted by: Fresh Air at December 09, 2009 01:38 PM (zX7TQ)
Posted by: Ben at December 09, 2009 01:39 PM (bftbi)
Posted by: YIKES! at December 09, 2009 01:39 PM (VmCok)
Posted by: Vet Missing Parts at December 09, 2009 01:40 PM (MCHyX)
Let's not jump to conclusions, Ace.
As I've said all along, anything and everything is Bush's fault.
Posted by: Barry O at December 09, 2009 01:41 PM (konek)
Posted by: Barney Frank at December 09, 2009 01:42 PM (kG8FV)
Posted by: Seriously at December 09, 2009 01:42 PM (Qkd8h)
Posted by: The Only Broad West of Denver Tiger Hasn't Boinked at December 09, 2009 01:42 PM (8g9qq)
Posted by: CoolCzech at December 09, 2009 01:42 PM (QECjC)
Posted by: Rajiv Vindaloo at December 09, 2009 01:43 PM (HaGdt)
Posted by: Dirk Diggler at December 09, 2009 01:44 PM (YhAfF)
Posted by: GrumpyUnk at December 09, 2009 01:44 PM (Q2rYf)
Posted by: Ben at December 09, 2009 01:44 PM (bftbi)
You lost me after "Actually,"
Posted by: Andrew Sullivan after burning a joint at December 09, 2009 01:45 PM (GjSWq)
Posted by: Charlie Gibson at December 09, 2009 01:45 PM (konek)
Good to see ya' back ace. I thought maybe you accidentally hit yourself upside the head with your own ban-hammer in the melee.
Posted by: Blazer at December 09, 2009 01:46 PM (+FzLa)
Posted by: dogfish at December 09, 2009 01:46 PM (lbuuF)
That'll be $200 for playing your therapist, please.
Posted by: Traci at December 09, 2009 01:46 PM (c52rb)
Posted by: myrenovations at December 09, 2009 01:47 PM (Nk3Yj)
So Ace was not stuck in a cesspool? So who won the betting pool? Anyone go with not stuck in a cesspool?
Anyone?
Posted by: AndrewsDad at December 09, 2009 01:47 PM (C2//T)
Posted by: Rajiv Vindaloo at December 09, 2009 01:47 PM (HaGdt)
Posted by: unseen at December 09, 2009 01:49 PM (aVGmX)
Posted by: mare at December 09, 2009 01:50 PM (X1fsj)
I've got a serious problem with this post Ace: Chevy Chase was never the least bit funny. He is like the Gene Simmons of comedy, except without the marketing genuis. In other words, about as funny as I am. That throws everything else you say in doubt.
Posted by: Mark in Portland at December 09, 2009 01:50 PM (BD2Ek)
Posted by: Lt. Chewbacca-1st Officer Millenium Falcon at December 09, 2009 01:50 PM (dCpk3)
Posted by: dreamer at December 09, 2009 01:50 PM (Tcqyn)
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Posted by: Hanover Fiste at December 09, 2009 01:51 PM (pD9ab)
Posted by: Percopius at December 09, 2009 01:51 PM (V0nbk)
Posted by: mare at December 09, 2009 01:52 PM (X1fsj)
Posted by: Barney Frank at December 09, 2009 01:54 PM (cxGtL)
Posted by: Guy Mitchell at December 09, 2009 01:54 PM (lTnzg)
Posted by: Adriane at December 09, 2009 01:54 PM (0U2C0)
Posted by: 1sttofight at December 09, 2009 01:54 PM (G9MiL)
Posted by: Iblis at December 09, 2009 01:55 PM (9221z)
Posted by: sven10077 at December 09, 2009 01:55 PM (dCpk3)
I thought yesterday's post was fine.
But several people, apparently, did not.
You got it now, guys? You sure?
Posted by: katya at December 09, 2009 01:55 PM (brVeg)
Posted by: vai2112 at December 09, 2009 01:55 PM (pkOAj)
Posted by: redc1c4 at December 09, 2009 01:56 PM (d1FhN)
Posted by: Zimriel at December 09, 2009 01:56 PM (04p0/)
Yes, I too wish Ace was a little more verbose when expressing himself.
Posted by: Percopius at December 09, 2009 01:56 PM (V0nbk)
Posted by: Empire of Jeff at December 09, 2009 01:56 PM (xGIqT)
Posted by: Kent Brockman at December 09, 2009 01:56 PM (LEynS)
Posted by: CoolCzech at December 09, 2009 01:57 PM (QECjC)
OT
but flaming skull worthy,
Obama admin threatens "command and control" of the economy by EPA unless cap 'n trade passes (on Fox, and linked to at Small Dead Animals)
Sorry no link, your comments seem to boot me for it.
Posted by: biff at December 09, 2009 01:57 PM (e5e2r)
Posted by: AnonymousDrivel at December 09, 2009 01:57 PM (50S+L)
Nah, just his mangina is acting up. Diarrhea of the keyboard and all. It gets pretty bad.
Posted by: Iblis at December 09, 2009 01:58 PM (9221z)
and the gay dudes.
I'm told.
Posted by: BumperStickerist at December 09, 2009 01:58 PM (ruzrP)
Holy shit Ace is awake.
Banhammer post at 2700! going for 3000!
We just aren't right!
And your point?
Posted by: Kemp at December 09, 2009 01:58 PM (2+9Yx)
Posted by: CoolCzech at December 09, 2009 01:58 PM (QECjC)
And the Venutian says "Hey, that's no monkey. That's my kidney!"
Its funny cause its true.
Posted by: Kasper Hauser at December 09, 2009 01:58 PM (ZPwZl)
And then he looked around the site and cringed. People he respects -- maybe even big names (Mr. L., Mrs. P., who knows?) are coming here and what do they see? Fag jokes, n****r jokes, boob jokes -- and worst of all, not very funny ones. If they were dirty but hilarious it would be one thing, but dirty and lame just makes the whole site look like it's aimed at college freshmen.
So I can sympathize. Though part of me mutters "sellout."
Posted by: Trimegistus at December 09, 2009 01:59 PM (uEZYD)
joeblow (at sign) yourisp (dot) com or something
Posted by: jcp at December 09, 2009 02:00 PM (DHNp4)
Yes, you know who you are.
Posted by: baldilocks at December 09, 2009 02:00 PM (KI7Bk)
Posted by: pitythefool at December 09, 2009 02:00 PM (Sg8sX)
That was like the script to Heavens Gate. I went to go grab some popcorn, a Mr. Pibb and some Raisinets in the middle of it.
Posted by: Blazer at December 09, 2009 02:00 PM (+FzLa)
Posted by: CoolCzech at December 09, 2009 02:00 PM (QECjC)
To what? For what?Posted by: Empire of Jeff at December 09, 2009 02:01 PM (xGIqT)
Posted by: Ben at December 09, 2009 02:01 PM (bftbi)
Posted by: Ace at December 09, 2009 02:01 PM (jlvw3)
Hmmmm... did I miss something?
Isn't this the part of the message where I blame Bush, Right Wing Extremists and navel lint... but mostly navel lint?
Fugnuckle
Posted by: Mostly Harmless at December 09, 2009 02:01 PM (xh2GE)
Posted by: CoolCzech at December 09, 2009 02:01 PM (QECjC)
Posted by: PugBoo at December 09, 2009 02:02 PM (F26eZ)
This is on, like the Donkey Kong?
Good.
My, my, my, my ace has had the fire in his belly and fingers that are strong like the breath of Mohammed, Peace be upon him ... he must have performed the unprotected oral sex with Jay Mohr.1
and partook of a bag of your skittles candies.
-
1 - it is an old-timey AoSHQ meme. Like hella old timey
Posted by: Hadji the Muslim Comic at December 09, 2009 02:02 PM (ruzrP)
Posted by: Empire of Jeff at December 09, 2009 05:56 PM (xGIqT)
That's what I took away from this. Ace hates us all and wants us to die.
Posted by: Jim in San Diego at December 09, 2009 02:02 PM (H7Rlw)
Posted by: James Ace Joyce at December 09, 2009 02:02 PM (ZtwUX)
You know, a serious cutting edge military blog.
Posted by: Iblis at December 09, 2009 02:02 PM (9221z)
Posted by: CoolCzech at December 09, 2009 02:03 PM (QECjC)
Posted by: Ace at December 09, 2009 02:03 PM (jlvw3)
84 Baldilocks,
and what I hate as a sorta white guy(if you take out the Amerind big toes) is the notion that the N bomb is a magic word that carries more weight than "cracker" or "white devil"....and I know who I am....
Posted by: sven10077 at December 09, 2009 02:03 PM (dCpk3)
The Banhammer could use a little help. Get that sucker to 3000 so we can close her down.
Kos will shit, 3000 posts on one thread.
How you like us so far dickheads?
Posted by: Kemp at December 09, 2009 02:03 PM (2+9Yx)
Posted by: Ace at December 09, 2009 02:04 PM (jlvw3)
But at least Chevy Chase was at one time one of the funniest people on the face of the earth
*BLINK* *BLINK*
Posted by: beedubya at December 09, 2009 02:04 PM (AnTyA)
Posted by: CoolCzech at December 09, 2009 02:05 PM (QECjC)
Posted by: logprof at December 09, 2009 02:05 PM (I3Udb)
Goddam, that was long.
Posted by: Leo Tolstoy at December 09, 2009 06:05 PM (+FzLa)
You want long, I got your long RIGHT HERE!
Posted by: Dick Cheney at December 09, 2009 02:06 PM (9221z)
When I sockpuppet, it's usually under "Another Stupid Typical Fucking Moonbat", since it usually allows me to parrot what I hear from my lefty acquaintences without having to go through explaining that every time. Also, someone lese already has a "Stupid Typical Fucking Moonbat" sockpuppet and I wanted to differentiate myself. Finally, when I do this at work, my hash is always the same, so it should not be hard to figure out who I am if you really want to. As with the movie where I get my latest moniker, I insist upon myself.
Actually, this is a pointless post because I always stay away from the race/gay jokes, for most of the reasons Ace lists. And nobody pays attention to me anyway, which is not a beg for attention, just a fact. This is my favorite site on the web and I'll keep lurking, occasionally posting and sockpuppeting where warranted, and enjoy the maniacs who populate this place. all while living by Ace's rules.
Posted by: Luca Brasi at December 09, 2009 02:06 PM (YmPwQ)
Posted by: Stephen King at December 09, 2009 02:07 PM (p05LM)
Posted by: Lars Gustafson at December 09, 2009 02:07 PM (W5NBA)
Our tenth caller wins tickets to Supertramp!
Posted by: Martin Prince at December 09, 2009 02:07 PM (0Xt7w)
I think I'm mainly trying to say edgy & daringly ribald are okay if they're funny, and rote shitty bitching about minorities and queers don't count as "edgy and daringly ribald." Posted by: Ace at December 09, 2009 06:01 PM (jlvw3)
Thanks for the Cliffs notes Ace, you da man.
Posted by: Old Hippie Vet at December 09, 2009 02:07 PM (3IZGh)
"so when I see something I don't like, it's usually under the name "Barney Frank" or something. So who do I write to?"
Why to Barney Frank, of course.
Posted by: Bawney Fwank at December 09, 2009 02:07 PM (T1boi)
SUNOVA!
Posted by: Mortis at December 09, 2009 02:07 PM (hA5JK)
84 Baldilocks,
and what I hate as a sorta white guy(if you take out the Amerind big toes) is the notion that the N bomb is a magic word that carries more weight than "cracker" or "white devil"....and I know who I am....
Posted by: sven10077 at December 09, 2009 06:03 PM (dCpk3)
I wrote a post last year about how offensive such epithets for white people were. Certain idiots (not the same person ref'd above) claimed that I was being PC there!
Whatcha got for that?
Posted by: baldilocks at December 09, 2009 02:07 PM (KI7Bk)
Speak for yourself, asshole.
Posted by: T-101 Spambot 2000 at December 09, 2009 02:08 PM (W5NBA)
At least it was more readable than the latest Dan Brown novel.
Posted by: TexasJew at December 09, 2009 02:08 PM (hgrfT)
Chevy Chase was the master at delivering deadpans.
____________
He suffered from the same problem Adam Sandler has: he smirked at his own jokes constantly, so I didn't see much deadpan. Oh! But you don't care what I say so I'll sign off now!!
Posted by: kathysaysso at December 09, 2009 02:08 PM (ZtwUX)
Posted by: vai2112 at December 09, 2009 02:08 PM (pkOAj)
Not saying that was a long post or anything ace, but Chewie and I had to make the jump to lightspeed just to get to the other side of it.
Posted by: Han Solo at December 09, 2009 02:09 PM (+FzLa)
Posted by: Artruen at December 09, 2009 02:09 PM (L+dBi)
127 Baldi,
I wasn't calling you out...you and I were on friendly terms back at Chuckles' magic playpen if I recall correctly....
I have no idea of you history here with whom....
just wanted to say Ace's magic words theory leaves me "meh"...
Posted by: sven10077 at December 09, 2009 02:09 PM (dCpk3)
Posted by: Empire of Jeff at December 09, 2009 02:10 PM (xGIqT)
Posted by: Ace at December 09, 2009 02:10 PM (jlvw3)
Posted by: conscious, but incoherent at December 09, 2009 02:10 PM (Vu6sl)
"This report, by its very length, defends itself against the risk of being read."
You could have just said, "Stop getting sand in your vaginas, you spazzes!"
Posted by: wooga at December 09, 2009 02:10 PM (2p0e3)
Oh, I'm being told that's not what you did. How dare you sir! The laws of common decency compel you to take a stand! How dare you sir!
Posted by: Keefums at December 09, 2009 02:10 PM (T8da7)
I'm sorry, I can't read anything that long here, at least not without some strategically placed cheerleader eye candy as an incentive.
Posted by: Mr. Peabody at December 09, 2009 02:10 PM (gxVc6)
Posted by: Ben at December 09, 2009 02:10 PM (bftbi)
Posted by: beedubya at December 09, 2009 02:11 PM (AnTyA)
Posted by: Trimegistus at December 09, 2009 05:59 PM (uEZYD)
It might be a 'sellout' if the rules had changed. But as far as I can tell it's just a restatement of the rules that were already in effect. It's not like Ace hasn't warned people in the past about being careful when trying to be funny about racial stuff.*
* Though to be honest I didn't read all 2500+ comments so I could have missed a policy update somewhere along the way.
Posted by: Mætenloch at December 09, 2009 02:11 PM (f5vi+)
All you needed was "knock it off with the racist, homophobic nasty sh*t, or I'll kick you in the pootella! If you don't know the diff - STFU to be safe."
Posted by: prettypinkfluffypanties at December 09, 2009 02:11 PM (lC4sc)
Posted by: FUBAR at December 09, 2009 02:11 PM (1fanL)
Interesting take. Perhaps you could blog about that.
Posted by: Obligatorially, AnonymousDrivel at December 09, 2009 02:12 PM (50S+L)
Posted by: Ace at December 09, 2009 02:12 PM (jlvw3)
And, relax dude.
People seem nervous around a black girl with a bald head. I can't imagine why that is.
Posted by: baldilocks at December 09, 2009 02:12 PM (KI7Bk)
Posted by: Empire of Jeff at December 09, 2009 06:10 PM (xGIqT)
No thanks. I have an email box full of boner pill spam ads right now.
I've been getting those since 1996, when I was on a Bob Dole email list.
Posted by: TexasJew at December 09, 2009 02:12 PM (hgrfT)
Posted by: Bill D. Cat at December 09, 2009 02:12 PM (vKdhq)
Posted by: David in San Diego at December 09, 2009 02:12 PM (GF+6V)
Posted by: Penfold at December 09, 2009 02:13 PM (lF2Kk)
Running a blog must be like serving in the Senate.
In the end, you start looking and acting like Harry Reid.
Posted by: TexasJew at December 09, 2009 02:14 PM (hgrfT)
"What would you really feel if I called you honkeys right now?
You'd be... um, really, really stung by that, huh?"
... honkey please...
Posted by: Foghorn Leghorn at December 09, 2009 02:14 PM (s2bW4)
138 Ace,
Nope, I've never used the N bomb nor would I...I don't even use the old F bomb version 2.0 AKA Shorthand for Andi and Bawney....
haven't felt the need what strikes me as funny is you imbue the word itself with the magical ability to offend rather than the invective behind it....
the word Honky does not offend me because it is a magic word...it might offend me because a Jerry Wright fan is the one uttering it with blood in his eye.
Your and my mileage can and obviously does differ on this roadtest.
No emnity towards you was meant or implied.
Posted by: sven10077 at December 09, 2009 02:14 PM (dCpk3)
Posted by: JRR Tolkein at December 09, 2009 02:15 PM (9221z)
Posted by: Ace at December 09, 2009 02:15 PM (jlvw3)
I did not get a "smirk" vibe from Chevy Chase.
I am thinking of Fletch and Caddyshack, and not really any of his TV stuff. So there is that.
Posted by: Rickshaw Jack at December 09, 2009 02:16 PM (nE6Eu)
Old Dirty B/tard said something like, "I allow myself to go ugly when I'm talking about Andrew Sullivan, because I hate Andrew Sullivan."
ODB is, well, a funny bastard. I hope he doesn't change.
Posted by: Dack Thrombosis at December 09, 2009 02:16 PM (P33XN)
Posted by: prettypinkfluffypanties at December 09, 2009 02:16 PM (lC4sc)
People seem nervous around a black girl with a bald head
ahhhh,now i get the your handle.
Posted by: Ben at December 09, 2009 06:13 PM (bftbi)
You thought she designed chastity belts for pre-pubescent girls?
Posted by: FUBAR at December 09, 2009 02:16 PM (1fanL)
Posted by: loppyd at December 09, 2009 02:16 PM (UJIeT)
151 Baldi,
because they drew you mencingly in Batman when you went by Tarantula?
*wink
Not intimidated I had little idea you had wandered here as I have over time.
Glad to see you're well.
Posted by: sven10077 at December 09, 2009 02:16 PM (dCpk3)
If this reaches 2000 posts I hit the tip jar for the first time.
Merry Christmas Ace!
Posted by: Hedgehog at December 09, 2009 02:17 PM (oQIfB)
I mean, I hate the direction that Obama is taking the country, I hate his choice in advisers, etc., but I can't hate the man. He is tragically wrong about almost everything, and his reflexive need to blame Bush for everything including his dandruff problem makes him look like a pathetic weasel, but until I hear him actually parrot the Rev Wright (instead of passively sitting by in order to establish his "authenticity"), I can't hate the guy.
I used to agree with Sullivan a lot, and then he flipped and I stopped disagreeing with him - but honestly his rhetoric was over the top the whole time. I only started to actively HATE the guy when he started attacking Palin in the most vicious and personal ways. The stuff he has said and promoted about her is just so vile that it really is open season. His bizarre contortions regarding his orientation it are just icing on the cake - his promotion of the gay marriage agenda because gays are like everyone else, while privately (or not so privately) conforming to the worst, most disgusting stereotypes of gays is really hypocracy of Spitzer or Sanford like order, but it is a fine line.
Posted by: Holdfast at December 09, 2009 02:17 PM (Gzb30)
Posted by: Michael at December 09, 2009 02:17 PM (siOQ7)
Blows your mind a little bit, doesn't it?
Posted by: Kensington at December 09, 2009 02:17 PM (BlBnA)
I just want to say I appreciated you explaining yourself in this post, way more than the last one.
I read this website a lot for the politically aimed humor. Mostly because I like the fact that you write a lot of things that are edgy and funny and graphic. I dont particularly like 'Family Circus' type humor.
I don't often go through the comments of a paticular post here so I was confused by the last one. I have to say I thought you were painting everyone with a wide brush with the whole racist jokes stuff. And to tell you the truth it kind of pissed me off.
But this post really made the arguments FOR what you were trying to say last night without all the vitriol. I think humor is the last refuge of the scoundrel sometimes, you're right about that. And I think everyone sees more clearly now what you were getting at.
So thanks Ace, for being a stand up kind of douchebag.
LOL.
Posted by: JA at December 09, 2009 02:17 PM (QnZBg)
This thread will never make it past 2500 without Sassypants.
She was a trooper there over on Banhammer.
Posted by: Foghorn Leghorn at December 09, 2009 02:18 PM (s2bW4)
Ace, you have my email. Write if I get crazy.
Posted by: Jones at December 09, 2009 02:18 PM (JL3qV)
Posted by: Ace at December 09, 2009 02:18 PM (jlvw3)
Posted by: rightzilla at December 09, 2009 02:18 PM (rVJH4)
161 Ace,
but for you to know all the socks would be depressing Boss....if you need to drop the heat on us we have code identifiers.
Posted by: sven10077 at December 09, 2009 02:19 PM (dCpk3)
Posted by: CoolCzech at December 09, 2009 05:42 PM (QECjC)
Sorry, CC, no intetional blogyrite
Posted by: laceyunderalls at December 09, 2009 02:19 PM (pLTLS)
Posted by: brak at December 09, 2009 02:19 PM (W5NBA)
Posted by: Barney Frank at December 09, 2009 02:19 PM (xVKXy)
I think I'm mainly trying to say edgy & daringly ribald are okay if they're funny, and rote shitty bitching about minorities and queers don't count as "edgy and daringly ribald."
Posted by: Ace
Except for the bog rats (Irish); it's open season on them.
Posted by: Blue Hen at December 09, 2009 02:19 PM (1O93r)
Posted by: Empire of Jeff at December 09, 2009 02:19 PM (xGIqT)
I though I felt a disturbance in the Force.
Next an entire planet of hobos Morons will suddenly disappear!
Posted by: sickinmass at December 09, 2009 02:20 PM (Dxfei)
Posted by: Ace at December 09, 2009 02:20 PM (jlvw3)
#147
How dare you? Lisps are not funny, and people being treated by speech therapy deserve our support, not mockery.
Posted by: malclave at December 09, 2009 02:20 PM (W1Ndc)
Posted by: Blindgoose at December 09, 2009 02:20 PM (hZOQ8)
Ace
You could ask Sensitive Ponytail Man for his super sekrit correllator tool to identify socks.
Posted by: loppyd at December 09, 2009 02:20 PM (UJIeT)
Posted by: Bosk at December 09, 2009 02:20 PM (pUO5u)
Heh. Well, maybe it IS Warden, if the post is any good. Usually I just get crickets in response. You wingnut, mouth-breathing god-botherer, you.
Oh, and should I/we lose the "fucking" part? It happened in real life, why not here?
Posted by: Another Stupid Typical Fucking Moonbat at December 09, 2009 02:21 PM (YmPwQ)
I say keep up the good work but please don't turn into that site. I'd probably address the BS and troublemakers directly and discretely. But then again, it's your blog and you have the right to do with it as you please.
(sorry I don't post a lot - but I do read every day)
Posted by: Jack-ImageX at December 09, 2009 02:21 PM (/Ib7g)
You cannot name a single "slur" on white people that you really think you need a bit of polite protection
Small weiners??
Posted by: beedubya at December 09, 2009 02:21 PM (AnTyA)
Posted by: Dr. Spank at December 09, 2009 02:21 PM (mGSN1)
I'm not. I only get nervous around denizens of Tartarus, such as Miss'80sbaby. I dunno if it's because I'm suspicious that Persephone has returned or if I think they may be an avatar of Hades that has come for my soul at last.
Posted by: Kratos (on the back of Gaia, scaling Mt Olympus) at December 09, 2009 02:21 PM (otlXg)
Posted by: Peaches at December 09, 2009 02:21 PM (9Wv2j)
Posted by: JohnJ at December 09, 2009 02:21 PM (QhemS)
Posted by: Benson at December 09, 2009 02:21 PM (qzcNU)
Posted by: Bill D. Cat at December 09, 2009 06:20 PM (vKdhq)
You hit the tip jar a few times, and suddenly he's putting on airs. Remember that shot of Kos having the big screen TV delivered?
Posted by: FUBAR at December 09, 2009 02:22 PM (1fanL)
Posted by: Iblis at December 09, 2009 02:22 PM (9221z)
This reminds me of Allah on the old Allah in the House site.
He finally went nuts and now works for day-old White Castle hamburgers scrounged out of a dumpster next to Michelle Malkin's townhouse.
Posted by: TexasJew at December 09, 2009 02:23 PM (hgrfT)
You cannot name a single "slur" on white people that you really think you need a bit of polite protection
Small weiners??
Posted by: beedubya at December 09, 2009 06:21 PM (AnTyA)
What's 12 inches long and white? Nothing.
My girlfriend told me to give her 12 inches and make it hurt, so I fucked her three times and hit her with a brick.
Posted by: FUBAR at December 09, 2009 02:23 PM (1fanL)
all the cool kids are square-dancing now
Posted by: Jones at December 09, 2009 02:24 PM (JL3qV)
Posted by: Barney Frank at December 09, 2009 02:24 PM (xVKXy)
Posted by: Guy Fawkes at December 09, 2009 02:24 PM (DIYmd)
When did ace get promoted to Ace ?
Posted by: Bill D. Cat at December 09, 2009 06:20 PM (vKdhq)
I think it was around the time he declared himself the funniest guy in the blogosphere and only he knew what true funny was.
I keed, I keed.
Posted by: Blazer at December 09, 2009 02:24 PM (+FzLa)
Fuck Chevy Chase.
Ok - that's my one free F-word use. But really, Chevy was never funny. Occasionally amusing, but not funny.
Posted by: TakeFive at December 09, 2009 02:24 PM (/3pxq)
Posted by: Kratos is a fucking racist at December 09, 2009 02:24 PM (xGIqT)
Posted by: Darcy at December 09, 2009 02:24 PM (cnJcX)
Posted by: Ace at December 09, 2009 02:25 PM (jlvw3)
177 You cannot name a single "slur" on white people that you really think you need a bit of polite protection of.
"racist"
Posted by: malclave at December 09, 2009 02:25 PM (W1Ndc)
Posted by: Benson at December 09, 2009 02:26 PM (qzcNU)
I love crackers. I particularly love watching Andrew Sullivan dip them into my generous pot of molten belgian rum chocolate truffles
I am amused by this comment.
I denounce myself.
Posted by: Dack Thrombosis at December 09, 2009 02:26 PM (P33XN)
I read Atlas Shrugged faster than this post.
Ace you are obviously a decent guy who has an obligation to pull the ban hammer when you see this crap. It is a small price to pay for your peace of mind.
It seems like you are seeking approval for banning f-tards. By all means- go for it.
Posted by: Valiant at December 09, 2009 02:26 PM (KByvo)
Posted by: Death at December 09, 2009 02:26 PM (6/BJr)
Posted by: Empire of Jeff at December 09, 2009 02:26 PM (xGIqT)
Posted by: ace at December 09, 2009 02:26 PM (jlvw3)
Holy shit, I'm supposed to read all of that?
Posted by: Cicero at December 09, 2009 02:26 PM (QKKT0)
177 You cannot name a single "slur" on white people that you really think you need a bit of polite protection of.
"Mets Fan"
Posted by: Iblis at December 09, 2009 02:26 PM (9221z)
I didn't think we were supposed to read the whole thing.
Were we supposed to read it? Did I make a faux pas?
Posted by: JohnJ at December 09, 2009 02:26 PM (QhemS)
Very reasonable and respectful of your commenters and I mean that.
Posted by: Darcy at December 09, 2009 06:24 PM (cnJcX)
See, that's the problem. I don't come here for respectful. For respectful, I answer personal ads from Randi Andi Sullivan.
Posted by: FUBAR at December 09, 2009 02:27 PM (1fanL)
Posted by: Barbarian at December 09, 2009 02:27 PM (EL+OC)
177 Ace,
No Ace what I am saying is that what you seem angered by is the "magic words" when the reality is that in an even exchange what should be intimidating is the invective intent behind them. What we have instead is this alchemistic brew whereby the word itself is considered a trigger for a (theoretically justified) rant on "I am outraged!" that includes paens to "we have suffered 500 years of oppression!"
Well no not really or the person is well kept for 596 years old.
500 years ago the Native Americans on this continent and the carribean were likely telling Italian and Spaniard jokes, the last time I checked there were no Americans here and more to the point not even any Englishmen. In caving to the paradigm that I am responsible for the alleged misdeeds of my forebears you undermine one of the cornerstones of our revolution which was "your life is your own you may not be put in debtor's prison for your father's debts". The game(and it is in my opinion a rather brutal game)of trying to put a millstone around the neck of the Republic in the form of reparations, special protections(ala Honest Holder never seeing black on white violence as a 'hate crime') is a by design escalation of racial antipathy at a time when the changing demographics of the United States will soon render it moot.
As to your point of "invented words" I did not invent "white devils" Jerry Wright and Farrakhan and many of their fans use it. Do they post here?
No of course I am not making my acidic but not "magic word" using attempts at sarcastic humor in their house either.
One side gets more passes than a guy in a women's prison thrown their way and the other side is constantly told "bite the pillow".
I "bite the pillow" because I grew up in a racially diverse public housing project where I helped defend blacks and asians from rednecks....
that doesn't mean I think I have a magic shield against being accused of justifiably obvious racial antipathy but it does mean I have a different perspective than some.
Posted by: sven10077 at December 09, 2009 02:27 PM (dCpk3)
Nah. Only gingers can summon true chaos. That's because, as the wise Eric Cartman once said, gingers don't have a soul.
Posted by: Kratos (on the back of Gaia, scaling Mt Olympus) at December 09, 2009 02:27 PM (otlXg)
To the best of my knowledge, Ace has yet to go fascist and prostitute the 1st amendment to deny people's right to put religious symbolism on their license plates. Until Ace does that, he'll be light years above Assholepundit. Plus, Ace is way funnier and doesn't badger us constantly with his unbelief. If he was a chick he'd be my celebrity crush. As it stands, I have to imagine he looks like Taylor Swift with Meggie Mac's rack.
Posted by: Johnny at December 09, 2009 02:27 PM (xVKXy)
Posted by: baldilocks at December 09, 2009 02:28 PM (KI7Bk)
Posted by: ace at December 09, 2009 02:28 PM (jlvw3)
As for banning, are these people banned forever, for a week a month, etc?
Posted by: Hedgehog at December 09, 2009 02:28 PM (oQIfB)
"Incidentally, I really want to know who the sockpuppeters are"
Ace, you can use that google search command that somebody posted awhile ago, but use the hash tag instead of commenter name.
site:minx.cc (searchword)
If you put the hash tag in as the searchword it returns all the different names or sockpuppets.
I've noticed hashes can be different at work than at home (mine are)
Huck (socks: Foghorn Leghorn, N. Pelosiyeva, B. Obamavich, etc)
Posted by: Huckleberry at December 09, 2009 02:28 PM (s2bW4)
On top ....hmmmmm........I like it.
Posted by: paranoid polly at December 09, 2009 02:29 PM (r7Vc3)
There's something else I'd like Ace to brown for me, but it ain't my nose.
Posted by: Andrew Sullivan at December 09, 2009 02:29 PM (xVKXy)
You cannot name a single "slur" on white people that you really think you need a bit of polite protection of.
"Beastie Boys Lover !"
Posted by: Blazer at December 09, 2009 02:29 PM (+FzLa)
Methinks mr. ace finds this appealing. It can be the only explanation as to what's going on in his head.
Dude, it's your house. We will gladly take our shoes off.
Posted by: laceyunderalls at December 09, 2009 02:29 PM (pLTLS)
Posted by: JohnJ at December 09, 2009 06:21 PM (QhemS)
Ace is just like Hitler.
Posted by: Jim in San Diego at December 09, 2009 02:29 PM (H7Rlw)
218,
quite right
"typical white person"...that the word is not seen as a justification for me to break out brass knuckles is a reflection on society not the subtle legacy harm behind those epithets....
If Barry were white and uttered ANY of his crap about "acted stupidly" or typical black people" the media and Ebony/Jet et al would be ALL OVER HIM.
Posted by: sven10077 at December 09, 2009 02:29 PM (dCpk3)
Posted by: Barbarian at December 09, 2009 06:27 PM (EL+OC) I've got your Social Security number, Mr. "Failure to File".
Posted by: Ace Sharmuta at December 09, 2009 02:29 PM (hgrfT)
Posted by: Cicero at December 09, 2009 02:29 PM (QKKT0)
Posted by: Benson at December 09, 2009 02:29 PM (qzcNU)
Posted by: ace at December 09, 2009 02:30 PM (jlvw3)
3 words: brutal stalinist repression
ban some people as an example to the others. hang a few bodies from the taskbar til the flesh slips off the bones
carry on
Posted by: Jones at December 09, 2009 02:30 PM (JL3qV)
Posted by: Empire of Jeff at December 09, 2009 02:30 PM (xGIqT)
Posted by: railwriter at December 09, 2009 02:30 PM (daRzV)
Posted by: JohnJ at December 09, 2009 02:30 PM (QhemS)
Posted by: Ben at December 09, 2009 02:30 PM (bftbi)
Two good movies (Caddyshack & Fletch.)
I'm old enough, however, to remember the absolute trainwreck that was "The Chevy Chase Show." It aired on Fox in the early-to-mid '90s, and was canceled barely a month after it debuted. Fucking awful. I'd like to watch those oldies just to laugh again at how awful and awkward they were.
Posted by: angler at December 09, 2009 02:30 PM (Yv052)
I think you can appeal to Huckabee for a reduced sentence.
Posted by: Guy Fawkes at December 09, 2009 02:30 PM (DIYmd)
Posted by: ace at December 09, 2009 02:31 PM (jlvw3)
Posted by: CoolCzech at December 09, 2009 02:32 PM (QECjC)
Posted by: ginaswo/MiM at December 09, 2009 02:32 PM (q7ASt)
Now, now, let's not start with crazy talk.
Posted by: alexthechick at December 09, 2009 02:32 PM (XIO/8)
I've been thinking.
A lot of people here announce they are black, gay, unicorns, etc. I'm going to be really pissed if I see you in Vegas and you're all fat pasty white men.
Posted by: Ben at December 09, 2009 02:32 PM (bftbi)
Posted by: California Red at December 09, 2009 02:32 PM (7uWb8)
Ace, you can use that google search command that somebody posted awhile ago, but use the hash tag instead of commenter name.site:minx.cc (searchword)If you put the hash tag in as the searchword it returns all the different names or sockpuppets.I've noticed hashes can be different at work than at home (mine are)Huck (socks: Foghorn Leghorn, N. Pelosiyeva, B. Obamavich, etc)
Posted by: Huckleberry at December 09, 2009
Teacher's pet
Posted by: beedubya at December 09, 2009 02:32 PM (AnTyA)
Posted by: JohnJ at December 09, 2009 06:21 PM (QhemS)
That's ridiculous. I don't post many comments at HA anymore, it's become too much of an echo-chamber (in the comments). But I was over there about a week ago and somebody made a relatively appropriate (for the thread) comment about Chuckie J. A couple more followed. Allah jumped right in with a very terse "Let's stay on topic." Kind of a buzz-kill, imo. Ace is never, ever heavy-handed like that.
Posted by: Peaches at December 09, 2009 02:33 PM (9Wv2j)
I cannot, and that's partially why Ace remains my favorite.
Posted by: Kensington at December 09, 2009 02:33 PM (BlBnA)
Posted by: dogfish at December 09, 2009 02:33 PM (sGaoh)
Posted by: FUBAR at December 09, 2009 02:34 PM (1fanL)
Where was this project? Sesame Street?
Posted by: Empire of Jeff at December 09, 2009 06:30 PM (xGIqT)
Sounds more like a Steven Seagall plotline.
And Bert and Ernie are registered pedophiles, btw.
Posted by: Ace Sharmuta at December 09, 2009 02:34 PM (hgrfT)
***and I'm sorry about the link! it was the only pic I could find at work w/out getting canned. the overall point was the outfit-not the person in it***
commence projectile vomiting in 3..2..1...
Posted by: laceyunderalls at December 09, 2009 02:34 PM (pLTLS)
Posted by: ace at December 09, 2009 02:34 PM (jlvw3)
Posted by: Empire of Jeff at December 09, 2009 02:34 PM (xGIqT)
Posted by: CoolCzech at December 09, 2009 02:35 PM (QECjC)
When I was a kid I riffed all the time. Your Mama jokes.
I feel like someone just put a "kick me" sign on my back.
Posted by: Mama AJ at December 09, 2009 02:35 PM (Be4xl)
Posted by: Bill D. Cat at December 09, 2009 02:36 PM (vKdhq)
Posted by: Benson at December 09, 2009 02:36 PM (qzcNU)
Posted by: The Little Man in The Boat at December 09, 2009 02:36 PM (QECjC)
How's a man like a tile floor? Lay him good once and you can walk on him for the rest of his life.
Posted by: FUBAR at December 09, 2009 02:36 PM (1fanL)
"Goyam" Oh no... wait.
Posted by: Iblis at December 09, 2009 02:36 PM (9221z)
Posted by: koopy at December 09, 2009 02:36 PM (XllG0)
Posted by: Amy Winehouse at December 09, 2009 02:37 PM (Ylv1H)
Posted by: Catherine the Great at December 09, 2009 02:37 PM (QECjC)
Posted by: FUBAR at December 09, 2009 02:37 PM (1fanL)
Posted by: ace at December 09, 2009 02:37 PM (jlvw3)
Not surprising, I guess, that Ace can't even figure out his own hash system...
Look, let's face it: the real problem here is that the implosion of LGF has flooded this site with the sub-moronic dregs of teh internets commenting crew, none of whom would have lasted a day in AoSHQ Classic (tm). The amount of sixth-rate unfunny clogging the comments now is depressing.
Well, that and/or Ace has had his balls cut off by some squishy liberal girlfriend.
Posted by: someone at December 09, 2009 02:37 PM (njJQD)
Posted by: Elizabeth at December 09, 2009 02:38 PM (hA5JK)
I cannot, and that's partially why Ace remains my favorite.
Posted by: Kensington at December 09, 2009 06:33 PM (BlBnA) </blockquote>
Heck, he's the only one I'll read anymore. ...who has time to reach War and Peace and something else. Thumbs up.
Posted by: dogfish at December 09, 2009 02:38 PM (sGaoh)
Your mom's so fat, when she dances the band skips.
Posted by: sickinmass at December 09, 2009 02:38 PM (Dxfei)
Dood..!!
I can't believe you wrote that long ass post
It's your site
If some dood posts shit that you don't like ...ban him
WTF...
It's your joint!!!!
Now I'm off to have lunch with the King of Norway
I heard he's gotta an opening...
Posted by: NYC Retired at December 09, 2009 02:38 PM (C30bu)
Girlfriend? Ace? Hey, let's not talk crazy.
Posted by: Iblis at December 09, 2009 02:39 PM (9221z)
Posted by: Elizabeth
Good for you!
Now go make me a sammich!
Posted by: Mortis at December 09, 2009 02:39 PM (hA5JK)
Posted by: ace at December 09, 2009 02:39 PM (jlvw3)
Posted by: Ken at December 09, 2009 02:39 PM (9zzk+)
Posted by: the sub-moronic dregs of teh internets commenting crew at December 09, 2009 02:39 PM (QECjC)
I just don't like Allah because he is all snark and no substance. His posts contain nothing but daily quotes, obamatuerisms, meghan mccain, sarah palin or glenn beck.
Whereas ace, and co-bloggers minus DrewM, actually make good points or offer analysis.
Allah is like the comedian who uses top ten lists or article clippings from local newspapers and passes them off comedic genius. He's essentially someone who goes through other news sites, pastes links to them and then gives them a title he thinks is funny. Really it's just the laziest way to troll for laughs.
He and I may agree on issues, but he's little more than a Matt Drudge who thinks highly of his sense of humor.
Posted by: Ben at December 09, 2009 02:40 PM (bftbi)
Posted by: FUBAR at December 09, 2009 02:40 PM (1fanL)
Posted by: pajama momma at December 09, 2009 02:40 PM (275r1)
Posted by: Jollyroger at December 09, 2009 02:40 PM (dwx7V)
Posted by: Killgore Trout at December 09, 2009 02:40 PM (xVKXy)
272 et al,
nah if it were a Segal flick I'd be a burnout hippie now....
look I grew up where I did had a bipolar mom, my best friends were Vietnamese had a black babysitter who watched me for 3 months while mom was in "care"....
whatever....
"I have black friends" is lame and it doesn't do justice to the friendships I made either.....I am decidedly not Vanilla Ice and unlike my brother don't aspire to be Eminem....when I got the power I left deciding there is no nobility in poverty.
We had a family called the Johnsons who lived across the basketball court from me who was a bully picked on everyone blacks, white, asians, but it was extra hard on the asians....anyway whatever.
I've never had anyone explain to me why Cliff Huxtable's imaginary kids in the imaginary box are more deserving of "extra help" than a poor white kid, asian, hispanic, or Amerind.
I am a meritocrat at heart not a cult of victimhood type.
Posted by: sven10077 at December 09, 2009 02:41 PM (dCpk3)
Posted by: Bosk at December 09, 2009 02:41 PM (pUO5u)
Posted by: Iblis at December 09, 2009 02:41 PM (9221z)
I thought this post wasn't long enough.
And the syntax is deplorable.
Posted by: Edward Gibbon at December 09, 2009 06:20 PM (P33XN)
No footnotes either.
Posted by: Captain Hate at December 09, 2009 02:41 PM (2Uu3I)
So ace issues a slight retraction to his readers? Well..........wasn't that..........a swift apology.
(slips on sunglasses)
YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHH !!!!
Posted by: CSI Ace of Spades at December 09, 2009 02:41 PM (+FzLa)
280 Your mama's so fat she went to the stables and the horse rode HER.
Posted by: Benson at December 09, 2009 06:36 PM (qzcNU)
I TOTALLY don't get that joke.
again, my history degree just paid for itself.
Posted by: Ben at December 09, 2009 02:41 PM (bftbi)
Posted by: Benson at December 09, 2009 02:42 PM (qzcNU)
I don't recall Allah making one, let alone two in a row, posts pleading with commenters. "Can't we all just get along?" just doesn't seem to me to fit Ace's style.
But, clearly, I'm wrong about that.
I guess I'll just go cry into my whiskey over the victory of the beta male.
Posted by: JohnJ at December 09, 2009 02:42 PM (QhemS)
Dude. Lay off Allah. Lithium changes you. I'm told.
Posted by: FUBAR at December 09, 2009 02:42 PM (1fanL)
Posted by: Empire of Jeff at December 09, 2009 02:42 PM (xGIqT)
Posted by: Texas Jew's Girlfriend at December 09, 2009 02:43 PM (QECjC)
Posted by: Z Ryan at December 09, 2009 02:43 PM (cMo6P)
Posted by: ace at December 09, 2009 02:43 PM (jlvw3)
Posted by: sven10077 at December 09, 2009 06:41 PM (dCpk3)
That was very interesting.
I'd like to pee on the trees at your old housing project.
Posted by: TexasJew's dog at December 09, 2009 02:43 PM (hgrfT)
Posted by: Methos at December 09, 2009 02:44 PM (zyyJm)
Posted by: CoolCzech at December 09, 2009 02:44 PM (QECjC)
Posted by: Iblis at December 09, 2009 02:44 PM (9221z)
FTFY.
If it was a Dan Brown novel, Ace's post would have been split up into thirty-eight chapters, some ending with ellipses.
Posted by: Waterhouse at December 09, 2009 02:44 PM (0Xt7w)
Ace, Why are you aplologizing for this? It's your playpen. You could have comment registration if you wanted, but you have chosen not to. If people abuse that trust, you can damned well do whatever you want, and set the rules however you like.
If people want to post bile, let them get their own gig and build a readership, If this was my bread-and-butter gig, I'd tell everyone to toe the fuckin line or pound sand.
Posted by: Gromulin at December 09, 2009 02:44 PM (7FA9S)
Hey Ace, on a more serious topic, you have an advertiser here that's loading the fake virus scanner Trojan pop-up. I noticed it yesterday and again today.
I get it at about every 20-25 page loads. It happens with only this place open with no other active sites loaded.
Posted by: Jim in San Diego at December 09, 2009 02:45 PM (H7Rlw)
Your mother's so fat, when she goes to a restaurant she doesn't get a menu, she gets an estimate.
Posted by: sickinmass at December 09, 2009 02:45 PM (Dxfei)
Posted by: sven10077 at December 09, 2009 06:41 PM (dCpk3)
Cliff Huxtable is racist. Ever notice the only white regulars on his show were all retarded? It's like commercials now. Every clueless idiot in a commercial is white, and the person who clues him in is a minority of some kind.
Posted by: FUBAR at December 09, 2009 02:45 PM (1fanL)
Posted by: CoolCzech at December 09, 2009 02:46 PM (QECjC)
Posted by: ace at December 09, 2009 02:46 PM (jlvw3)
It's my favorite new show of the season, and he's a big reason why.
I hate that, but there it is.
Posted by: Kensington at December 09, 2009 02:46 PM (BlBnA)
Posted by: Benson at December 09, 2009 02:46 PM (qzcNU)
249 Ace,
Depends on where I'm at and what sandbox we're discussing.
I heard crap like that a lot in Leesville in the "right" part of town....here in Columbia not so much.
Since this forum is ostensibly right-leaning I would imagine people would have to come here seeking to be offended by some of our more angry posters. I would not dream of going to Islam.net or DailyKOS and not getting offended but neither would I in getting that offense go trying to run and hide behind Zuniga's skirt.
You're correct though I don't often let such things bother me and most especially not over the internet.
Chuckles J and AP going moonbat and squish respectively bothers me a lot more than AG Holder calling me a "coward".....Holder is a clown and once upon a time I considered the dynamic duo allies.
Anyway I am not calling you out, not trying to be obtuse, not seeking to undermine your authority I just am calling the gymnastics we are forced to go through on race and sexuality "crap".
regards,
sven
Posted by: sven10077 at December 09, 2009 02:46 PM (dCpk3)
Hey Ace, on a more serious topic, you have an advertiser here that's loading the fake virus scanner Trojan pop-up. I noticed it yesterday and again today.
I get it at about every 20-25 page loads. It happens with only this place open with no other active sites loaded.
i thought it was just me. i've been seeing it a lot too.
Posted by: Ben at December 09, 2009 02:47 PM (bftbi)
How many times have you really made a funny joke when you were hot-angry? Like, zero? Maybe once?
ALL THE TIME, YOU ASSHOLE!
HERE'S ONE RIGHT NOW, FUCKFACE! WHY DID THE CHICKEN CROSS THE ROAD?
BECAUSE YOU ARE AN ASSHOLE, ASSHOLE!
Posted by: Warden at December 09, 2009 02:47 PM (bkkYX)
Posted by: ace at December 09, 2009 02:47 PM (jlvw3)
Posted by: Empire of Jeff at December 09, 2009 02:47 PM (xGIqT)
notice how im the only one who sees it?
Posted by: andrew sullivan at December 09, 2009 02:48 PM (BlBnA)
Posted by: Johnny at December 09, 2009 02:48 PM (xVKXy)
And while I'm asking, does everyone have to provide 'candid' shots taken in the shower or just me?!
Posted by: Y-not goes eleventy at December 09, 2009 02:48 PM (sey23)
Posted by: Controller A3286 at December 09, 2009 02:48 PM (0QJjg)
Gosh Darnit, I wish that Andrew Sullivan's AIDS medicine would become $1.00 per pill more expensive, and that his Beagle gets worms, and his Intertubes connectivity becomes spotty, and that next time he and his Boyfriend decide to go to the Hamptons, his car breaks down!
Okay, that was no fun at all. I'd much rather say: "Fuck Joy Behar in the ass with Andrew Sullivan's Flesh-Stripped (by a Vulture), Wrapped in Barbed Wire and Covered with White Chocolate!"
But I probably can't say that, damnit.
Posted by: Sharkman at December 09, 2009 02:49 PM (Zj8fM)
Posted by: TexasJew's dog at December 09, 2009 02:49 PM (hgrfT)
Posted by: CoolCzech at December 09, 2009 02:49 PM (QECjC)
343,
yeah it's annoying SpySweeper quarantined it and it is rated a "5" on their virus/spy scale....
but the place is worth it I like the atmosphere....
Posted by: sven10077 at December 09, 2009 02:49 PM (dCpk3)
Posted by: Benson at December 09, 2009 02:49 PM (qzcNU)
It's my favorite new show of the season, and he's a big reason why.
I hate that, but there it is.
Posted by: Kensington at December 09, 2009 06:46 PM (BlBnA)
________________
I never said I hated him, just that he had a smirky face in need of slapping.
Posted by: kathysaysso at December 09, 2009 02:50 PM (ZtwUX)
"So you're the one who likes it."
Don't make me turn on you now, boy.
At the very least, Allison Brie is a great combination of goofy and sexy.
Posted by: Kensington at December 09, 2009 02:50 PM (BlBnA)
Posted by: Hanover Fiste at December 09, 2009 02:50 PM (pD9ab)
They told me it was just bubble baths.....WTF?
Posted by: paranoid polly at December 09, 2009 02:50 PM (r7Vc3)
Posted by: AmishDude at December 09, 2009 02:51 PM (ItSLQ)
As long as you still believe in evolution.
If you become a young-earther, it's off.
Posted by: Y-not at December 09, 2009 02:51 PM (sey23)
Posted by: Rob in Katy (Racist Cajun) at December 09, 2009 02:51 PM (PiTBB)
Hey Ace, on a more serious topic, you have an advertiser here that's loading the fake virus scanner Trojan pop-up. I noticed it yesterday and again today.
I get it at about every 20-25 page loads. It happens with only this place open with no other active sites loaded.
Posted by: Elizabeth at December 09, 2009 02:51 PM (hA5JK)
And while I'm asking, does everyone have to provide 'candid' shots taken in the shower or just me?!
Posted by: Y-not goes eleventy at December 09, 2009 06:48 PM (sey23)
No, just you. Should I give you my e-mail addy, or will you post em' on the ONT?
Posted by: Blazer at December 09, 2009 02:51 PM (+FzLa)
Posted by: ace at December 09, 2009 02:51 PM (jlvw3)
Posted by: alexthechick at December 09, 2009 02:52 PM (XIO/8)
Old Dirty B/tard said something like, "I allow myself to go ugly when I'm talking about Andrew Sullivan, because I hate Andrew Sullivan."
To which I can only say: Join the club. I hate that guy. I have the exact same impulse ODB has: I want to say something as vicious and nasty as possible, because I despise him so much.
Actually the most vicious thing I can think of to say about Sullivan is that he's so wretchedly dull. And he's dull not because he's a homosexual, but because all he is is a homosexual. That's it. His entire life. His whole concept of himself. There isn't a thing about the guy that doesn't begin and end with his sexuality. His religion, his profession, his politics, his hobbies, even his batshit-insanity all spring straight from his penis and have little existence beyond it. A man whose whole sense of identity is in his dick is shallow, boring, and ultimately pathetic, whether he's schtupping women, men, or barnyard animals with it.
Posted by: BKW at December 09, 2009 02:52 PM (nLMhW)
Oh but you were the big, bad boy the other night, you rough and furry ewok you! Why, the stories I could tell.......
Call me!
Posted by: Ace's hot date from last Saturday night at December 09, 2009 02:52 PM (92zkk)
366 AmishDude,
Damn....I thought he said "no" because she was dead and a brunette....
*ba-du-dum*
Posted by: sven10077 at December 09, 2009 02:52 PM (dCpk3)
It's my favorite new show of the season, and he's a big reason why.
I hate that, but there it is.
Posted by: Kensington at December 09, 2009 06:46 PM (BlBnA)
________________
I never said I hated him, just that he had a smirky face in need of slapping.
Posted by: kathysaysso at December 09, 2009 06:50 PM (ZtwUX)
Like Ted Danson, he came into his own when playing an asshole.
Something similar happens when Sean Penn plays an imbecile. They've been method actors all their lives without knowing it.
Posted by: AmishDude at December 09, 2009 02:52 PM (ItSLQ)
Posted by: The Q at December 09, 2009 02:52 PM (pfStM)
"I never said I hated him, just that he had a smirky face in need of slapping."
One reason why I think he's been such a revelation on "Community" is that he isn't the star, and since he's only part of the ensemble, and frequently made to look weird and foolish and a little pathetic, the smirkiness isn't off-putting.
I didn't know that was possible, but it is.
Posted by: Kensington at December 09, 2009 02:53 PM (BlBnA)
Posted by: ace at December 09, 2009 02:53 PM (jlvw3)
Posted by: Benson at December 09, 2009 02:53 PM (qzcNU)
Posted by: The Q at December 09, 2009 02:54 PM (pfStM)
It's common around here to make sexual jokes at the expense of hetrosexual people: Spitzer, or Tiger, or Sanford, or, God help us, Megan McCain.
Straights don't feel offended by these jokes, so why should gays be horrified by similar jokes aimed at Barney Frank or Andrew Sullivan?
I think I'm mainly trying to say edgy & daringly ribald are okay if they're funny, and rote shitty bitching about minorities and queers don't count as "edgy and daringly ribald."
Maybe the site gets cleaned up before I read it, but I can't say ever seen "rote shitty bitching about minorities and queers" around here. The sort of people who comment here would not comment on that sort of web site.
Posted by: flenser at December 09, 2009 02:54 PM (e/dhs)
Posted by: Barney Frank at December 09, 2009 02:54 PM (QKKT0)
Posted by: ace at December 09, 2009 02:55 PM (jlvw3)
Or at least slowed to a slow bleed.
Posted by: Mortis at December 09, 2009 02:55 PM (hA5JK)
sven10077
Michael in Michigan
Too much? Ok, sending email address.
Posted by: Guy Fawkes at December 09, 2009 02:55 PM (DIYmd)
You'll get pix when the 'Skins win the Super Bowl.
Of course by then my sweater puppies will look like bloodhounds, but if that's your thing, you're golden, baby.
Posted by: Y-not at December 09, 2009 02:55 PM (sey23)
But... not really said a lot. That's a Nation of Islam thing, and they're about the same size as the Ku Klux Klan. Maybe bigger, but same order of magnitude.
Yep, I've hardly ever heard such things myself.
Posted by: Rev. Jeremiah Wright at December 09, 2009 02:55 PM (ItSLQ)
All right, confession time: How many morons here thought something dirty upon reading that comment?
And then immediately proceeded to think up a condom/porn joke?
I'm assuming everyone. I thought that part of the prerequisites of being a moron?
Posted by: Elizabeth at December 09, 2009 02:56 PM (hA5JK)
Posted by: Empire of Jeff at December 09, 2009 06:42 PM (xGIqT)
The vaginal development project likes where you are going with this. Perhaps a few more of those Tuna Traps and we may have the investment team necessary to reconstruct at least some of the phallum here on AoSHQ.
Posted by: sickinmass at December 09, 2009 02:56 PM (Dxfei)
Having read yesterday's post and all of it's comments and all of this post {cuts self like a teen goth chick}, let me say "Yub yub, Ace."
While I don't get the convoluted machinations re: emailing offenders rather than just banning/shaming them publicly, I now understand your reluctance to lay down the law in such an explicit fashion that you snare your own ewok ass. Smart move.
Posted by: Cuffy Meigs at December 09, 2009 02:56 PM (outBY)
Posted by: ace at December 09, 2009 02:56 PM (jlvw3)
359 Here's a haiku:
Ace has a new post
He talks about jokes and stuff
It is really long Just like Hitler did!
Posted by: Jim in San Diego at December 09, 2009 02:57 PM (H7Rlw)
Posted by: ace at December 09, 2009 06:51 PM (jlvw3)
I think it's funny. Most people do. No one really cares about the term "white devil" (or any other derogatory terms about whites) being used anywhere - except for manufactured outrage or the opportunity to point out the lack of reciprocity in the social rules. That's the point, right?
Posted by: progressoverpeace at December 09, 2009 02:57 PM (A46hP)
371 Ace,
You are saying that the blacks of forty years ago had magic calm....
if you spend your day looking for offense you'll find it and you'll most especially find it if you allow yourself the luxury of having a "trigger word" or "state" that justifies your hyper-sensitivity....
It's like the oft used(by the ill educated) canard of "500 years of oppression" well considering that Jamestown wasn't founded until 1607 someone's math is off.....
when the Black community plays this game they are fooling themselves into thinking their anger is justified.
I am decidedly not trying to portray myself as some zen master of the internet fella I am the guy who willfully went and got banned at HA and LGF remember?
A few of your old timers were impressed with how I stood the entire LGF king's court on its ear with facts regarding Van Jones and Chuckles' gymnastics on the matter.
What I'm saying is that were I an easily self-deluded person I would play the same game many blacks do and decide that the antics of Barry, Al, and Jesse make it ok for whatever response I dish out.
I don't play that game and I'd wager the majority of folks here do not as well.
Nice blog, and I am certain you'll keep it that way.
Posted by: sven10077 at December 09, 2009 02:57 PM (dCpk3)
Posted by: BSR at December 09, 2009 02:58 PM (AJreE)
Posted by: Intrepid at December 09, 2009 02:58 PM (92zkk)
Blazer,
You'll get pix when the 'Skins win the Super Bowl.
Of course by then my sweater puppies will look like bloodhounds, but if that's your thing, you're golden, baby.
Posted by: Y-not at December 09, 2009 06:55 PM (sey23)
Cool. Just keep in mind you owe me pics from the first three.
Posted by: Blazer at December 09, 2009 02:58 PM (+FzLa)
(It sucks, but it's a life.)
(Shut up.)
Posted by: Joanna at December 09, 2009 02:58 PM (tU0cy)
It's not that easy. For one thing, Charles Johnson "set the rules" and that had consequences that I don't want.
As long as you don't turn into a psychotic, dishonest, shamelessly retarded douchebag who polices the comments on every post every second of the day, deletes every comment that doesn't suck your dick outright, and don't ban everyone who doesn't verbally give you a reach around every five minutes, I don't think you're going to have a problem such as Chuckie Douche did.
Posted by: Sharkman at December 09, 2009 02:58 PM (Zj8fM)
All right, confession time: How many morons here thought something dirty upon reading that comment?
And then immediately proceeded to think up a condom/porn joke?
Posted by: Benson at December 09, 2009 06:53 PM (qzcNU)
Now that I think about it, why would a condom brand be given a name most commonly associated with a device used to surreptitiously bring an unwanted army into a fortress, spilling out to cause damage and destruction?
Posted by: Rev. Jeremiah Wright at December 09, 2009 02:58 PM (ItSLQ)
The risque AoS naked staff photos they accidentally mail out to all the real addresses when drunk are well worth the Greek mythological creature porn Ace signs us up to. Beats the random amateurish pictures of beaches and grass and shemale masturbation porn I get from LGF.
Posted by: Johnny at December 09, 2009 02:59 PM (xVKXy)
Posted by: Techi
In a group hug no one knows it's you poking their leg.
Posted by: Z Ryan at December 09, 2009 02:59 PM (cMo6P)
Posted by: Sassypants at December 09, 2009 02:59 PM (I/mtr)
Posted by: Intrepid
Not that I've noticed
Posted by: Mortis at December 09, 2009 02:59 PM (hA5JK)
Yes.
Barnes is starting to stutter, too. I'm kind of worried about him, actually (Barnes), as it seems relatively new.
Posted by: Y-not at December 09, 2009 02:59 PM (sey23)
Posted by: paranoid polly at December 09, 2009 02:59 PM (r7Vc3)
404 PoverP,
my point in pointing out "white devil" was not to say it is a reciprocal magic word it was to highlight that it is the invective and anger behind it that makes it "magic"....
white devil from an 86 year old Louis fan is a little different than the 16 year old gangbanger saying it.
What the professional grievance monger tour tries to do is set their bar artifically lower on "outrage".
Posted by: sven10077 at December 09, 2009 02:59 PM (dCpk3)
OK, folks...we're at 20% of goal. Can anyone do one of theose telethon thermometer-looking thingies??
Posted by: beedubya at December 09, 2009 03:00 PM (AnTyA)
Posted by: Bill D. Cat at December 09, 2009 03:01 PM (vKdhq)
416 Mortis,
I think the last four days have really blown the Hammer's mind.
He was saying the proper response to Crap'n'trade by fiat is revolution....not an easy place to be for a guy who a while back accused Palin of being too hyperbolic with "death panels"
Posted by: sven10077 at December 09, 2009 03:01 PM (dCpk3)
......... or grabbing their ass .
Posted by: Bill D. Cat
If you're doing both to the same person they might figure it out.
Posted by: Z Ryan at December 09, 2009 03:01 PM (cMo6P)
So not going to go there in this thread.
Damn.
Posted by: mesablue at December 09, 2009 03:02 PM (vAnE9)
Posted by: CoolCzech at December 09, 2009 03:02 PM (QECjC)
"Racist, Homophobic attempts at humour are not acceptable at this very smart military blog."
Edit, my friend, edit. Concise ideas and pithy quotes are your friends.
Posted by: SDH at December 09, 2009 03:02 PM (mLQ6y)
Posted by: Dr. Spank at December 09, 2009 03:02 PM (mGSN1)
How many morons here thought something dirty upon reading that comment?
Does it count if you were already thinking something dirty?
Posted by: Mama AJ at December 09, 2009 03:04 PM (Be4xl)
392 Guy Fawkes,
yeah yeah....
*rolls eyes*
You know for enjoying bashing Andi and Bawney I am decidedly not the stereotypical GOPer wrt sexuality....I just think that the portion of the gay community that wears assless chaps and could stunt double for Village People groupies are rather entertaining in being shocked they are not hailed as the saviors of mankind.
Posted by: sven10077 at December 09, 2009 03:04 PM (dCpk3)
Even if everyone else plays by the rules, what will you do about saboteurs?
When you start drawing lines, you only encourage the villainous.
Posted by: Molon Labe at December 09, 2009 03:04 PM (kYpqT)
Teacher's pet
Posted by: beedubya at December 09, 2009 06:32 PM (AnTyA)
Precisely.
*slurp* *slurp*
Posted by: Barbarian at December 09, 2009 03:04 PM (EL+OC)
Posted by: ace at December 09, 2009 03:05 PM (jlvw3)
Posted by: Kathleen Parker at December 09, 2009 07:03 PM (u1pln)
No he's not gay, his head is just so full of seaman, he can't think straight.
Posted by: Jim in San Diego at December 09, 2009 03:05 PM (H7Rlw)
I don't think it's a stutter: he suffered a football injury in college that left him paralyzed, and I think he struggles for breath sometimes.
I think that it was a diving accident, and I believe it's more of a breathing problem than a stutter.
Posted by: SDH at December 09, 2009 03:05 PM (mLQ6y)
OT....A little response from Sarah the breeder of Alaska to that cracker Al Gore.
"Vice President Gore, the Climategate scandal exists. You might even say that itÂ’s sort of like gravity: you simply canÂ’t deny it. "
- Sarah Palin
Heh.
Posted by: Bosk at December 09, 2009 03:05 PM (pUO5u)
Next Ace will try to convey this message using poetry. If that fails, he will resort to illustrations, and finally hand puppets. And still, the kid who sits in the back of the classroom and eats his own boogers wonÂ’t get it.
Posted by: ParanoidGirlInSeattle at December 09, 2009 03:05 PM (RZ8pf)
Inbred usually gets under their skin in my experience. Assuming they aren't really inbred, because then you have to explain what inbred means and it looses its punch.
Posted by: Buzzsaw at December 09, 2009 03:05 PM (PNqW6)
white devil from an 86 year old Louis fan is a little different than the 16 year old gangbanger saying it.
Posted by: sven10077 at December 09, 2009 06:59 PM (dCpk3)
Meh. I don't see a difference and the term is still funny to me from either. What do I care what others think of me, even in racial terms? It just doesn't bother me, and I would say doesn't bother most whites - though I've never seen any polling on this.
Posted by: progressoverpeace at December 09, 2009 03:06 PM (A46hP)
I've noticed that about Fred Barnes - it seems to accompany his eyes darting down and a product of thinking off the cuff - but tonight I saw Dr K do the whole "t-t-t-t-t-t-" think in front of a word. Very obvious.
Do you think Barnes' stuttering is getting worse?
Posted by: Intrepid at December 09, 2009 03:06 PM (92zkk)
Posted by: Bob Dole (Kang) at December 09, 2009 03:06 PM (cMo6P)
I didn't catch that. I guess I was just so enthralled by the terrible Arnold-clone on the TV that had preceded this scene.
Posted by: Kratos (on the back of Gaia, scaling Mt Olympus) at December 09, 2009 03:06 PM (otlXg)
I have told flenser that there is no put-down for straights that's the equivalent of "fag."
Ace, you are free to address me directly and drop the stupid bullshit.
And your statement is your opinion, and an odd and minority one at that. You don't get to tell the rest of the world what words are and are not offensive, or what the proper heirarchy of offensivness is.
You want to ban the word "fag" on your own website? Great, go ahead. I'm no fag basher. It affects me not at all. But just do it already and stop acting like you're our moral instructor. Make the damn rules and apply then and stop acting like Hamlet already.
Posted by: flenser at December 09, 2009 03:07 PM (e/dhs)
Posted by: ace at December 09, 2009 03:08 PM (jlvw3)
442 Ace,
What I have said in Barry's Uncle Jerry threads is that the hypocrisy of Jerry getting a pass drives me berzerk....
not "the LA riots were totally justified as a display of *fill in X group's* rage" berzerk but yeah the double, triple, and quadruple standards offend me.
That said do I allow his pap to impact me on a personal level to the point I run to a mod, the teacher, whatever....
"never"
Posted by: sven10077 at December 09, 2009 03:08 PM (dCpk3)
448 ProgresoverPeace,
It bothered me a lot less before Tawanna Brawley, the Al & Je$$e show, Louis Fairycan's junk etc etc
now I look at the level of rage in the eyes or spirit of the hurler...not the "magic word".
I take radical muslim's at their word when they say I'll pray to Allah or die
I take FairyCan seriously as well.
Posted by: sven10077 at December 09, 2009 03:10 PM (dCpk3)
Poor guy's a quad, what more do you want?
Posted by: pajama momma at December 09, 2009 03:10 PM (275r1)
Posted by: Menthol, The God of After Dinner Drinks at December 09, 2009 03:10 PM (QECjC)
Me: "Come on, man. You're killing me here with this."
Him: "Oh ok. I'll watch it."
Exactly verbatim of what I found in my false flag/fat chick email account. I thought I was making a profound comment regarding shifting demographics in this world. I meant no harm, and didn't think it was even near the line.
1) Upon re-reading it, I could see how it could be misconstrued.
2) I appreciated the heads up, in private, rather than the woodshed of the comments section.
I don't want to read somewhere else, what an ass AoS is, and find my comment the cause of public ridicule.
Ace did right by me. It's his sandbox. This is too cool of a thing to lose.
Posted by: hutch1200 at December 09, 2009 03:11 PM (hfMOd)
Posted by: Noah Bawdy at December 09, 2009 03:11 PM (dCjum)
Posted by: CoolCzech at December 09, 2009 03:11 PM (QECjC)
Posted by: Sassypants at December 09, 2009 03:12 PM (I/mtr)
Posted by: ace at December 09, 2009 03:12 PM (jlvw3)
Yeah, people think he's a para, but he's not. He had a diving accident in the early 70's. I lurves him.
Posted by: pajama momma at December 09, 2009 03:12 PM (275r1)
I demand equal rights for citizens who can never remember that good joke they heard at the party last week. It is only fair.
Go ahead and laugh now but we'll see who has the last laugh.
Posted by: Just A Grunt at December 09, 2009 03:13 PM (pOC9r)
463, yeah he really is...finished his MD despite his handicap....
inspiring guy really....a bit moderate for my tastes but he is starting to grasp the potential implications of "Da Smart Won" getting his way and not liking what he sees.
Posted by: sven10077 at December 09, 2009 03:13 PM (dCpk3)
The feedback I get is that such stuff is offensive and should be called out as such.
Posted by: ace at December 09, 2009 07:05 PM (jlvw3)
I don't think anyone was "offended" by what Wright said. Wright was just a buffoon, anyway. He was a joke. What irked people was the double standard, and that insane double standard finding its way all the way up the system. The fact is that when Wright said, "God damn America" just a week after 9/11, he would have been really taken apart if anyone had heard it. By the time it came out, many had forgotten what feelings were like at that time.
People complained about Wright because he's a marxist, race-baiter who hates America and everything we stand for. His statement of "white folks' greed runs a world in need" isn't offensive because it is a slur against whites, it's offensive because it's stupid and wrong.
I don't think anyone was offended by Wright's specific language. It was his twisted thoughts that put people off.
Posted by: progressoverpeace at December 09, 2009 03:14 PM (A46hP)
Posted by: Bill D. Cat at December 09, 2009 03:14 PM (vKdhq)
I skipped down to "Post" from there, assuming you couldn't have backed off this, because you...can't.
"Cracker" doesn't bother the white people it doesn't refer to. Those are the kind of white people you know, media, lawyers, college pals you "riffed" with, etc.
It bothers the ones it does refer to, people who've heard it right before a black dude punches them in the back of the head and when they turn to respond there are three more behind him f'in' to stomp a cracker out. You don't know those people.
Someone calling you or anyone you know or anyone they know a cracker is like us telling you to go back to Endor. But there are millions to whom it's real. Those people aren't reading your site (or any, probably), but they exist. Millions. Try on some unfashionable empathy, fat boy.
Posted by: oblig. at December 09, 2009 03:15 PM (k5ILr)
I think a lot of that is simply a reaction to a pre-existing double standard. Of course, there will always be people who live in perpetual outrage, but I think the majority of reaction against hearing a minority use racist language is an attempt to point out that he's doing what others are commonly berated for doing.
Regardless, it's your blog, dude. I'd ban people simply on the principle of avoiding the appearance of racism. When one is accused of a crime, as conservatives are accused of being racist, one must avoid the appearance of engaging in that crime. Quite frankly I think you're being too nice about this. Sure, offer a warning if someone crosses a line before banning them. But is this strategy really the best way to deal with this problem?
Posted by: JohnJ at December 09, 2009 03:15 PM (QhemS)
Posted by: astonerii at December 09, 2009 03:15 PM (2xsBL)
Actually, I thought he was a para. Regardless, I was only making an observation of something that I hadn't noticed before. not a big issue.
Posted by: Intrepid at December 09, 2009 03:16 PM (92zkk)
Posted by: Bob Dole (Kang) at December 09, 2009 03:16 PM (cMo6P)
Posted by: CoolCzech at December 09, 2009 03:16 PM (QECjC)
Posted by: meep at December 09, 2009 03:16 PM (Jw4eT)
Poor guy's a quad, what more do you want?
Posted by: pajama momma at December 09, 2009 07:10 PM (275r1)
A good friend of mines brother is a quadriplegic. It takes an effort to breath especially when talking for extended lengths of time. Chuck does just fine as far as I'm concerned.
Posted by: Blazer at December 09, 2009 03:17 PM (+FzLa)
Posted by: Shannon at December 09, 2009 03:18 PM (niZOC)
*curses the sky in anger that Blazer amused me in any way shape or form
Posted by: pajama momma at December 09, 2009 03:19 PM (275r1)
Posted by: ace at December 09, 2009 03:19 PM (jlvw3)
Posted by: The People of Viagra at December 09, 2009 03:19 PM (QECjC)
Posted by: Z Ryan at December 09, 2009 03:19 PM (cMo6P)
Posted by: meep at December 09, 2009 03:20 PM (Jw4eT)
And tell Maet to go to bed early so he stops bringing out the yellow cards. That would get the post count up
Posted by: Elizabeth at December 09, 2009 03:21 PM (hA5JK)
Posted by: CoolCzech at December 09, 2009 03:21 PM (QECjC)
Posted by: digitalbrownshirt at December 09, 2009 03:21 PM (/O0iM)
Address the "fag" analogy. What word exists to put down a straight person?
"Breeder" seems to be popular, but I'm not in the business of telling gays what slurs they should use. They're pretty creative people, in the non-reproductive sense. I suspect they have a lot of really cool/nasty names for us.
Posted by: flenser at December 09, 2009 03:21 PM (mpwof)
Posted by: Z Ryan at December 09, 2009 03:22 PM (cMo6P)
The only term that's ever offended this white protestant veteran is being called plaintiff. All the rest is just an annoyance.
Posted by: Fish at December 09, 2009 03:22 PM (6mfq0)
I think the argument that people need to be protected from being called names is the wrong tactic to take. Quite frankly, people can call me whatever name they want. That says more about them than it does me.
Of course, I was in the Army. But is it really the best thing for society to have all sharp corners encased in bubble wrap? Insults hurt only when the person being insulted allows it. I think people are better served when they learn that such trivialities are meaningless.
Of course, I also think that there's another good reason to maintain a decorum policy, as I previously stated.
Posted by: JohnJ at December 09, 2009 03:22 PM (QhemS)
Posted by: Admiral Ackbar at December 09, 2009 03:22 PM (7uWb8)
Posted by: scar at December 09, 2009 03:23 PM (7Dddx)
Posted by: meep at December 09, 2009 03:23 PM (Jw4eT)
Posted by: Warden at December 09, 2009 03:23 PM (bkkYX)
Posted by: ace at December 09, 2009 03:24 PM (jlvw3)
Posted by: Banjo at December 09, 2009 03:24 PM (1DQ52)
Posted by: steve_in_hb at December 09, 2009 03:25 PM (kSCka)
Posted by: timewarp at December 09, 2009 03:26 PM (GE67c)
504 Ace,
The thing is for true equivalency Flenser would have to go around looking for offense, he'd have to have a political action group dedicated to finding offense, etc etc
he likely doesn't have a lot of gay friends, doesn't watch LOGO and is not really in the business of trying to gain political cheap heat or control forums through his grief mongering.
That *is* the difference.
Posted by: sven10077 at December 09, 2009 03:27 PM (dCpk3)
OK, can we now display our Piss Christ creches here at Christmas ? I mean, as long as the urine-soaked baby doesn't appear to be a sterotypical Semite there shouldn't be a problem, right? And if Jesus has two Marys, and all the Wisemen are black instead of only one, do we get group hugs? I think this may be a place I like now.
Posted by: A tolerant liberal at December 09, 2009 03:27 PM (GjSWq)
Posted by: sven10077 at December 09, 2009 06:41 PM (dCpk3)
This post is longer than when Robert Byrd filibustered the Civil War.
Posted by: TexasJew's dog at December 09, 2009 03:27 PM (hgrfT)
Posted by: Empire of Jeff at December 09, 2009 03:28 PM (gyngB)
Posted by: Dr. Spank at December 09, 2009 03:28 PM (mGSN1)
Posted by: ace at December 09, 2009 03:29 PM (jlvw3)
Posted by: Lemmenkainen at December 09, 2009 03:29 PM (Iw4dM)
Posted by: RTH615 at December 09, 2009 03:29 PM (Rytlc)
Posted by: rae4palin at December 09, 2009 03:29 PM (G4RRM)
Posted by: Sassypants at December 09, 2009 03:29 PM (I/mtr)
Posted by: TexasJew's dog in MI at December 09, 2009 03:29 PM (hgrfT)
510,
yeah that's one of the double standards....
I don't see a lot of blue on blue in the "stop the outrage" wars.....
red on red common....DailyKook telling democrats to calm down with their bile....not so much
Posted by: sven10077 at December 09, 2009 03:30 PM (dCpk3)
Posted by: Elizabeth at December 09, 2009 07:21 PM (hA5JK)
Lucky for you I'm in a forgiving mood otherwise that kind of taunt would warrant a 1 hour Life Clock penalty.
Posted by: Mætenloch at December 09, 2009 03:30 PM (f5vi+)
Posted by: ace at December 09, 2009 07:19 PM (jlvw3)
Not meaning to belabor the point, but he probably meant that he was not offended by stuff that others would call "HIDEOUSLY offensive".
I don't know what to tell you. Holocaust deniers don't offend me. I'm offended by the EU, the UN, and the rest of the world looking to destroy Israel with actual policy (and others who promote such policy). I couldn't care less if someone does or doesn't believe that the Holocaust happened. I grew up in the 70's, when survivors were still all over the place and the Holocaust was still a living event, and even I knew that people were going to forget all about it, eventually. Who cares?
Look, if you tell whites that asians score higher than them on IQ tests, most don't care. Because Western civilization has been growing about a base of individualism - especially American culture, which represented (until now) the epitome of the individualistic society. Now, we're moving backwards on that, with some choosing to mimic the "outrageous outrage" of others in order to illustrate the unfairness of certain social rules about groups, but that is a strategy of Mutual Assured Destruction in my mind.
Posted by: progressoverpeace at December 09, 2009 03:30 PM (A46hP)
Posted by: Yeah... at December 09, 2009 03:30 PM (JHfD/)
Posted by: Mortis at December 09, 2009 03:30 PM (hA5JK)
Why not install those little "up down" indicators that LGF has? And the little "flags" that Townhall has. That makes posting more interactive. And bring back the colors so we can make our posts multi color.
Just no smiley emotioncons because that is so...
I caught myself before I fucked up!
Posted by: Joe at December 09, 2009 03:31 PM (P/q7X)
Posted by: ace at December 09, 2009 03:31 PM (jlvw3)
Posted by: The Great Satan's Ghost at December 09, 2009 03:31 PM (X/Gle)
Posted by: Hot Bitch what lives down the road from TJ's Dog at December 09, 2009 03:31 PM (92zkk)
#51 LOL, and now I need to clean my keyboard.
Posted by: Bosk at December 09, 2009 03:31 PM (pUO5u)
Posted by: RTH615 at December 09, 2009 03:32 PM (Rytlc)
Posted by: Little Miss Attila at December 09, 2009 03:32 PM (saBHO)
514 Ace,
You namby pamby white bred sister fucking asshole!
offensive enough?
I've heard it.
is what we are discussing the fact that there is no magic word or that whites are never insulted or offended?
Posted by: sven10077 at December 09, 2009 03:33 PM (dCpk3)
At least the ladies could put their boobies against their monitors or somethin'.
Posted by: nickless at December 09, 2009 03:34 PM (MMC8r)
Dude. You are just everywhere.
LOLIrregardless, I want to keep my lifeclock intact, so I'll behave. I'll even use non-words just because I know how much you like it
Posted by: Elizabeth at December 09, 2009 03:34 PM (hA5JK)
Piker.
We had three in 14 months.
Posted by: nickless at December 09, 2009 03:35 PM (MMC8r)
You namby pamby white bred sister fucking asshole!
offensive enough?
I've heard it.
Someone actually said "namby pamby" out loud to you?
Posted by: Warden at December 09, 2009 03:36 PM (bkkYX)
I got nothing to say, I just felt left out not being part of another epic 2,000 comment post.
OK, I do have something to say. Ace is bending over backward to be as reasonable about this as can be so I don't see what the big fuss and overreaction is. I don't like censorship either but, honestly, if I see a comment on my YouTube that has no other point than to be hateful and make a certain race feel bad, I'll zap it.
On the other hand I hate that this could provide fodder for the PuffHo, KosKids crowd. They could report on this and say, look, right-wing racism is so out-of-control that even wingnut bloggers like Ace have to fight to contain it. Like Ace said, he's addressing maybe 10 people but once liberals apply East Anglia math to it it'll become 10,000.
Posted by: Crusty at December 09, 2009 03:36 PM (qzgbP)
Posted by: ace at December 09, 2009 03:36 PM (jlvw3)
I just ventured over to Cahrles Jhonson's site for a look-see. He has a vid of some libtards shutting down a skeptic's conference over in Copenhagen...
...and I think he's a tad surprised at the reaction of the commenters
Posted by: beedubya at December 09, 2009 03:36 PM (AnTyA)
Posted by: Hot Bitch what lives down the road from TJ's Dog at December 09, 2009 07:31 PM (92zkk)
After finishing up my bowl of Ukanuba and chewing on my owner's new iPhone, I was going to go down the street and smell that collies ass for twenty minutes. Wanna go with?
Posted by: TexasJew's dog in MI at December 09, 2009 03:36 PM (hgrfT)
The thing that I found the most offensive concerning the Rev. Wright was not his diatribes and swipes at white America, because that's pretty much old hat now, but the fact that he puts down America and capitalism while living in a million dollar mansion backed up to a golf course in a gated community and drives an expensive Mercedes all the while telling his parishioners to refrain from riches and the American dream.
In other words, he's just another typical hypocritical liberal, no different than Al Gore, just a different schtick and sales pitch.
Posted by: Blazer at December 09, 2009 03:36 PM (+FzLa)
Posted by: Nice Deb at December 09, 2009 03:36 PM (XSaLW)
Posted by: Aikido2kyu at December 09, 2009 03:37 PM (row4J)
Hey Ace, you have my hotmail addy I usually post under, but I have repeatedly e-mailed you from my Gmail and my army.mil, both of which have my full real name on them. Hint, my last name is Kemp too, which is why I keep calling the North Carolina Kemp "the other Kemp".
If this goes 2000 posts without amateur lesbian boot fetish video posted, I swear I will pay out of pocket for a plane ticket to the planet Endor and massacre Ewok villages until I see chicks in black leather making out.
Posted by: SGT Dan at December 09, 2009 03:37 PM (GgXZc)
Posted by: Tiger Woods at December 09, 2009 03:38 PM (QECjC)
Ace, I'm on your side, as far as the substance of the issue is concerned. Hell, I was the one leading the charge against the "sheets of glass" crowd when they were having fantasies about nuking the Middle East. And nobody has ever seen me here spitting venom at queers, fags, N!!gers and darkies.
It's the way you're going about things which is causing problems. You are the "chief executive" of this blog, and that requires you to be firm and decisive at some times, as well as easy going and tolerant at others.
As somebody concerned for the future of this blog, it's my duty to tell you that this is one of those times when decisive leadership is needed. And you're not delivering. Buck up!
Posted by: flenser at December 09, 2009 03:38 PM (0zOUj)
I don't see a lot of blue on blue in the "stop the outrage" wars..... red on red common....DailyKook telling democrats to calm down with their bile....not so much
Posted by: sven10077Right. We should use those sites as our guide.
Posted by: Iskandar at December 09, 2009 03:38 PM (u1pln)
Posted by: ace at December 09, 2009 03:39 PM (jlvw3)
526 Ace,
You were a badass third grader....
I mean I just got accused of living in a Segal flick for growing up in Landmark Village but you were gaybaiting at 8 years old or so?
Hats off....(just joking)
Look radical gays go out of their way to be offended, I don't offer offense regularly and in fact one of my favorite soldiers was a lesbian little 75B who got ran out of the Army for being date-raped and it coming out she was gay.
"justice"
Made me sick really the point is that yeah the two protected by you classes have magic words and seek to control the narrative....now I'm ok with what you're doing but pretending that somehow these two groups have individual burdens that we are all unlikely to bear or ever be faced with simply by being in a group?
Well I think identity politics are a copout and contributing to the Balkanization of the electorate so I don't have a lot of sympathy.....
guilty as charged
Posted by: sven10077 at December 09, 2009 03:39 PM (dCpk3)
Trust me, you don't want to go there.
Remember when Kramer fed Rusty the Horse beefarino? That's me every night, dude.
Posted by: Y-not's collie at December 09, 2009 03:39 PM (sey23)
Posted by: Tiger Woods at December 09, 2009 07:38 PM (QECjC)
No, you'll just wind up humping some Norwegian Elkhound.
Posted by: TexasJew's dog in MI at December 09, 2009 03:39 PM (hgrfT)
Posted by: Titless in Seattle at December 09, 2009 03:40 PM (QECjC)
Posted by: joe at December 09, 2009 03:40 PM (YwBI6)
"Right, well, again: There aren't a lot of slurs to use against you, something you seem unwilling to concede."
My drill sergeants had no problem finding a lot of them. It didn't take long for me to realize that they're meaningless. Hell, friends call each other names for bonding.
But I grant that there are plenty of reasons to institute controls. I don't use "ofensive" language at work or school. And I don't use language that would give me the appearance of being a racist around people who don't know that I'm not. I've even told friends of mine to be careful about appearing racist using language in front of people who will misinterpret it as confirmation of their preconceived idea that conservatives are racist.
And it's your blog, dude. You're being far too... generous.
Posted by: JohnJ at December 09, 2009 03:41 PM (QhemS)
Posted by: Buzzsaw at December 09, 2009 03:41 PM (PNqW6)
551 Iskander,
I notice they found a habit of winning since they closed ranks and quit the circular firing squad....
they have so much power now they literally are drunk with it.
Boy it sure would suck if we focused more on destroying our opponents than pretending their stereotypes of us should force us to cast folks out for transgressions against a stacked deck in a game we'll never win
Posted by: sven10077 at December 09, 2009 03:41 PM (dCpk3)
Long story short: it's your blog post what you want. If we don't like it we won't come back. We keep coming back so what's that tell you? Fuck the haters. Lock & load.
Posted by: tangonine at December 09, 2009 03:41 PM (C8Pcc)
Flenser, I was the one posting specific targeting recommendations for Trident II ICBMs the last time we had the "sheets of glass, nuke the Islamics" discussion, but then I am a nuts and bolts kind of guy. I get handed operational guidance and figure out how to make it happen. I don't really naturally care about whether it should happen. I'd shed more of a tear for the stray dogs and cats and feel bad about the museums than giving a shit about killing 800 million potential terrorists and terrorist enablers.
I figure if we're ever shoved so far in a corner that nuclear genocide is a legitimate response, we're past the point of moral dithering.
Posted by: SGT Dan at December 09, 2009 03:41 PM (GgXZc)
Ace, I think that what makes those epithets so offensive is not the words themselves, but the assumption of superiority that goes along with their use. It would explain why such words lose their sting with the community that they apply to. Also, that may be why there's no epithet equivalent for a white heterosexual man.
Oh, and I have always used my main email address in the "Email" field. I didn't know I wasn't supposed to do that. I was kind of hoping someday to post a message so profound that I would get an email with a "good job" in it. (I am so pathetic.)
Anyway, now, even though the secret is out, I get so much spam at that address already that I probably will continue to use my main email address.
Posted by: Jonathan G at December 09, 2009 03:42 PM (LbwB9)
2 naps, 3 hours...read the whole damned thing.
Now, does anyone know some good Barney Frank jokes?
Posted by: Mons Pubis at December 09, 2009 03:42 PM (lO+6d)
Posted by: ace at December 09, 2009 07:39 PM (jlvw3)
Huh. How 'bout that. It doesn't have to be filled in.
Posted by: SDH at December 09, 2009 03:43 PM (mLQ6y)
"Geez, it looks like you could use a little sleep."
NOW do I have your attention, ace?
Because THAT was said to ME right in front of my kid.
Posted by: Warden at December 09, 2009 03:43 PM (bkkYX)
540,
it was either that or nappy headed....was kind of blurred and I was in flight or flight mode...
it happened in Cincy so a different Ohio dialect.....
point is it was the invective and intention that got my attention not the magic words.
Posted by: sven10077 at December 09, 2009 03:43 PM (dCpk3)
Is that really you in the other thread posting that you have various colored balloons in your ass? You may get an inappropriate homosexual response.
HH
Posted by: Hedgehog at December 09, 2009 03:43 PM (oQIfB)
Posted by: ace at December 09, 2009 03:44 PM (jlvw3)
Posted by: SGT Dan at December 09, 2009 03:44 PM (GgXZc)
Posted by: stuiec at December 09, 2009 03:44 PM (Ate22)
Boy it sure would suck if we focused more on destroying our opponents than pretending their stereotypes of us should force us to cast folks out for transgressions against a stacked deck in a game we'll never win Posted by: sven10077
Indeed. All Ace ever writes about is casting out members. Nothing else. Just that.
Sven, you're going to get ill if you don't stop blowing smoke up your own ass.
Posted by: Iskandar at December 09, 2009 03:45 PM (u1pln)
Posted by: tangonine at December 09, 2009 07:41 PM (C8Pcc) One of my first girlfriends was a moaner. Our neighbors had to buy earplugs.
Posted by: TexasJew at December 09, 2009 03:45 PM (hgrfT)
Posted by: ace at December 09, 2009 03:45 PM (jlvw3)
Hey - there is some ripe roadkill just off the road about a hundred yards down from your place. I was thinking we could go and have a good roll, get all down in it, and then....see where things go. Not to be too indelicate, but I'm in a certain season and it would be fun to see if we could stick together tonight, IYKWIMAIKTYD.
*wink*
Posted by: Hot Bitch what lives down the road from TJ's Dog at December 09, 2009 03:45 PM (92zkk)
Posted by: Soap MacTavish at December 09, 2009 03:45 PM (554T5)
~ tap tap tap tap tap ~
this is on? You can hear my words?
And good.
So, what is black and white and lobbying in Copenhagen to stop the changing of the climate?
Jai Ping - the environmentalist panda bear
It is true, the people of China sent one of the panda bears to Copenhagen to show how much the chinese will save the climate. This is not of make sense to me. I think the chinese sent the panda bear to learn how to make the baby panda bears.
Do you know that they make the movies for the bears to learn to have babies?
We in Muslim world have much the same. Which explains why so many number of baby panda bears are in Kuwaiti and Qatar.
So, what is black and white and white and black and black and white and white and black? A white homosexual and a black homosexual doing the sex cartwheels down a hilll.
What is black and white and white and black and black and blub .. blub ... blub?
a white homosexual and a black homosexual doing the sex cartwheel off of a boat dock.
One person asked me what I would do for a Klondike bar?
I said that I would cut off the head of the infidel and any of those who offended Allah
... now they call me Major Hadji the Muslim Comic.
~ crickets ~
.... what?
too soon?
-
Posted by: Hadji the Muslim Comic at December 09, 2009 03:45 PM (ruzrP)
Posted by: Mr. Pink at December 09, 2009 03:45 PM (V/EYZ)
They're not "protected classes". You can criticize black racism. You can criticize the hatred animating many gay marriage supporters. Ace certainly has.
Ace just doesn't want people writing posts he's personally embarrassed with.
And no, that cannot be strictly defined. In order to divine what will or won't make Ace uncomfortable, you won't actually need to be psychic, but you will need what are called "people skills".
Posted by: sandy burger, future Democratic Pollster at December 09, 2009 03:45 PM (MT+0i)
"Ace, I think that what makes those epithets so offensive is not the words themselves, but the assumption of superiority that goes along with their use. It would explain why such words lose their sting with the community that they apply to. Also, that may be why there's no epithet equivalent for a white heterosexual man."
Holy fucking hurt feelings. Really? Stop being a pussy. Period.
Posted by: tangonine at December 09, 2009 03:46 PM (C8Pcc)
And I either post as SGT Dan or a sockpuppet. Kemp/Kempermanx is the other guy.
Posted by: SGT Dan at December 09, 2009 03:46 PM (GgXZc)
I get handed operational guidance and figure out how to make it happen. I don't really naturally care about whether it should happen.
I could really go off on that, but this thread is going to be long enough without having that argument over again. Suffice it to say that Ace regards that (Yay sheets of glass type comments) as one of the sorts of things which ought not be said. End of.
Posted by: flenser at December 09, 2009 03:48 PM (0zOUj)
You know what this thread could use?
Some Sun Tzu quotes.
But only if they're misattributed to Sun Sue.
Posted by: Warden at December 09, 2009 03:48 PM (bkkYX)
575 Iskander, and maybe if you buy glasses you can read what I've wrote to Ace and understand I grasp he is not going AP or Chuckles...
The fatc is there is a recurring pattern wherein some Geico caveman conservitive voice says or does something stupid and then we engage in self-flagellation as a community about it.....heretofore not so much here but at other sites...."yeah".
Now Ace does this from time to time and it is his house his rules his playpen but to act like pointing out that Kos never seems to spend the time soul-searching when he is called on "Betray-us" or the hate his site spread on Sarah....yeah I think that is not invalid.
Posted by: sven10077 at December 09, 2009 03:49 PM (dCpk3)
Posted by: CoolCzech at December 09, 2009 03:50 PM (QECjC)
Posted by: Flounder at December 09, 2009 06:00 PM (Kkt/i)
What kind of game can you play with Uranus?
Posted by: stuiec at December 09, 2009 03:50 PM (Ate22)
You're shitting me, right?
You made me feel like piece of shit for no good reason. I am not a racist. I do not make racist jokes. And I would never ever deliberately hurt another commenter's feelings.
I don't make cheapshots, especially online. I think it's a) cowardly, and b) beneath me, and c) a silly thing to do. Arguing on the internet is for losers. Losers.
I come here, I poke fun, I say funny stuff (yes, I am funny and I know what's funny), and I make good points about political issues. And when people poke fun at me, I laugh. I never complain and I never escalate it to one-up them. It's all in good fun.
This is going to hard for some of you to hear, so I'll just come out and say it: You are a loser if you get offended while on the internet. Now I'm not talking about the personal attacks directed at a person; I'm talking about general comments that may or may not touch on you who are or what 'group' you feel you fit in.
Ace, you think you're sick of saying shit over and over again? I am too. This is not the first time I've written these sentiments. It's always the same old story: someone has a complaint and a handful of people jump on the bandwagon. In no time at all the whole thing is blown out of proportion. And the accused (me) sits there and can't believe his eyes because he's reading comments from people he thought were decent blokes and liked him call him a racist and a bigot and say yeah yeah good riddance. And most of them didn't even bother to get the facts or hear the other side of the story. That was your fault, Ace.
My remark wasn't even meant to be joke. It was sarcasm. It was written to make a point, not to make people laugh and certainly not to hurt anyone's feeling. For the life of me, I can't understand why any reasonable adult would be personally offended by what I wrote.
So there you go. We have a fundamental disagreement on what is edgy. I don't think I'll ever convince you it was a harmless comment and you'll never convince me it was a racist comment. Where do we go from here?
I dunno. How about this: I will promise to read some of my comments through your lens when they involve touchy subject matter if you try to be more rational in your judgment of my comments and at least consider the context and my past comments before you think the worst of me?
Posted by: yeah, it's me at December 09, 2009 03:50 PM (UUkhk)
Posted by: Empire of Jeff, snickering behind his hand at December 09, 2009 03:51 PM (xGIqT)
582 Sandy,
I am fairly certain in a way I was not with AP or Ed that I have yet to go past Ace's boundaries that is not my point.
I am questioning Ace's entire tolerance of a classical liberal doublebind on our side that somehow can never be turned against them.....
how many times have you seen HuffPo \castigate their Battle for Seattle types of the Birthers?
Yeah, exactly
Posted by: sven10077 at December 09, 2009 03:51 PM (dCpk3)
Posted by: hutch1200 at December 09, 2009 03:51 PM (hfMOd)
Posted by: CoolCzech at December 09, 2009 03:51 PM (QECjC)
I'm tired of the easily-offended-OMG-someone-said-something-mean-to-me crew.
I'm no mr. macho dude, and I'm just freaking an average guy leading an average life, but some of these people that just throw themselves to the floor screaming and crying remind me of little two-year-old toddlers. It's pretty pathetic.
Posted by: tangonine at December 09, 2009 03:52 PM (C8Pcc)
p.s. I've been posting here forever with the same name and email address.
Posted by: Winston at December 09, 2009 03:52 PM (KquJp)
Posted by: ace at December 09, 2009 03:53 PM (jlvw3)
Posted by: Bill D. Cat at December 09, 2009 03:53 PM (vKdhq)
Posted by: ergastularius at December 09, 2009 03:53 PM (/gil1)
Posted by: Empire of Jeff, snickering behind his hand at December 09, 2009 03:53 PM (xGIqT)
Posted by: progressoverpeace at December 09, 2009 03:54 PM (A46hP)
Ace, come on.
Quality over Quanity.
If you're going to be mean or angry, be serious about it, because being mean or angry should be serious.
Was it really worth writing such a thoughtful sermon to us morons?
And now I'll let this post drown in more comments like Andrew drowns in semen. Because he's gay. And dicks provide semen after enough sexual excitment.
Posted by: William at December 09, 2009 03:54 PM (77TeU)
Posted by: sybilll at December 09, 2009 03:54 PM (4xTct)
Posted by: seattle slough at December 09, 2009 03:55 PM (JRGA6)
Posted by: SGT Dan at December 09, 2009 03:55 PM (GgXZc)
Posted by: ace at December 09, 2009 03:56 PM (jlvw3)
Fuck you. Fuck you 18 ways to sunday with a bed stand lamp covered in Ebola virus. You fucking worthless piece of race baiting shit. Fuck you.
Posted by: tangonine at December 09, 2009 03:56 PM (C8Pcc)
Something needs to be clarified about being "offended" too. I get offended by lots of things: Democrats who think I'm too stupid to know what they're doing, liberals who think that freedom is slavery, and kids who think that making fun of a view that I don't have is somehow a putdown. But in the grown-up world, we understand that being that kind of offended is a part of life. People who are too fragile to deal with the grown-up world should stay in college where their professor can tell them that they're good people just because they support a woman's right to choose.
I also get offended when people tell me that because I'm white, male, and heterosexual, I don't know what it's like to be insulted. That's pretty offensive. It's also condescending and bigoted. Everyone has been insulted. It's always personal, and it's always offensive.
Perhaps it's best to make the distinction between being offended by playground taunts and namecalling, and being offended by a deliberately provocative attitude. Maybe that's the distinction you're already trying to make.
Posted by: JohnJ at December 09, 2009 03:57 PM (QhemS)
(Anti-joke, heh, heh)
Posted by: CoolCzech at December 09, 2009 07:51 PM (QECjC)
Shame on you!
My poor mother was a handicapped one-legged third world plate juggler in an impoverished Ukrainian circus near Chernobyl. Your insensitive comment made me very very sad and I am crying really big tears now.
Posted by: TexasJew the Concern Troll at December 09, 2009 03:57 PM (hgrfT)
Posted by: ace at December 09, 2009 03:58 PM (jlvw3)
... where's WickedPinto when he's needed?
or, hell, Cedarford.
Posted by: BumperStickerist at December 09, 2009 03:58 PM (ruzrP)
Wow, that post was longer that your mama's nipple hair.
Posted by: Rich at December 09, 2009 03:58 PM (Qrjpn)
Posted by: dfbaskwill at December 09, 2009 03:58 PM (ympAm)
Kudos, Ace. MUCH better than yesterday's train wreck (which I "got", as it were ...but "got" a lot of the converse too). Anyways, good job.
...and damned if I'm gonna sift through the previous 600 comments to see what the consensus was.
Posted by: davis,br at December 09, 2009 03:58 PM (uCShA)
Posted by: incognito at December 09, 2009 03:59 PM (maxwK)
Posted by: Sassypants at December 09, 2009 03:59 PM (I/mtr)
deadbeat day
deadbeat dad
Posted by: hutch1200 at December 09, 2009 07:56 PM (hfMOd)
How abour proclaiming June 1 "Deadbeat Day" in honor of all those forgotten "Deadbeat Dads"?
I smell some Porkulus money coming our way..
Posted by: TexasJew at December 09, 2009 03:59 PM (hgrfT)
614 Ace,
That's the beauty of the place boss....this place will make a great rally point if Chairman Ogabe ever does outlaw the right....
Posted by: Barack T. Ogabe esq. at December 09, 2009 04:00 PM (dCpk3)
Posted by: ace at December 09, 2009 04:00 PM (jlvw3)
My poor mother was a handicapped one-legged third world plate juggler in an impoverished Ukrainian circus near Chernobyl. Your insensitive comment made me very very sad and I am crying really big tears now.
Posted by: TexasJew the Concern Troll at December 09, 2009 07:57 PM (hgrfT)
Son ?
Posted by: Blazer at December 09, 2009 04:00 PM (+FzLa)
nevermind
it's not worth my time or your time. Besides, no one really cares. This is a madhouse. Half the morons here are impressed by shiny objects and high post-counts.
Posted by: yeah, it's me at December 09, 2009 04:01 PM (UUkhk)
Posted by: BumperStickerist at December 09, 2009 04:02 PM (ruzrP)
I'm not offended.
I don' t see what the problem is.
I don't ever get offended.
ace, you need to take a bubble bath, but replace the bubbles with tampons ... and replace the bath with 4 naked male contortionists who are locked together so tightly that they form a watertight (and tampon tight) bowl ..
a very gay bowl ... that you are bathing in.
Because that's how much of a RINO gayboy you've become.
Posted by: Warden at December 09, 2009 04:02 PM (bkkYX)
I get off on high post counts. Is there an insult for that?
Posted by: Cicero at December 09, 2009 04:02 PM (QKKT0)
Posted by: Reginald Wingate at December 09, 2009 04:03 PM (fDWFP)
Posted by: Twinks at December 09, 2009 04:03 PM (LeFbD)
Posted by: AmishDude at December 09, 2009 06:32 PM (ItSLQ)
Your mama's so fat, instead of using a vibrator, she just parks her Ford F-350 in it and lets it idle.
Posted by: stuiec at December 09, 2009 04:03 PM (Ate22)
Posted by: Bill D. Cat at December 09, 2009 04:04 PM (vKdhq)
Oh yeah what this post needs is wickedpinto. I "heart" that guy in a non-homo way. NTTAWWT.
Posted by: Bosk at December 09, 2009 04:04 PM (pUO5u)
Posted by: Soap MacTavish at December 09, 2009 04:04 PM (554T5)
I've been changing my names a lot lately. A real lot. (haha, I haven't said 'a real lot' since I was a kid).
Anyway, I've been using aliases.
Posted by: yeah, it's me at December 09, 2009 04:04 PM (Uf4aV)
41 I've got a serious problem with this post Ace: Chevy Chase was never the least bit funny. He is like the Gene Simmons of comedy, except without the marketing genuis. In other words, about as funny as I am. That throws everything else you say in doubt.
AMEN!
That was pretty amazing, Chevy Chase was juvenile and topical.
- Loose Shoes
Posted by: Loose Shoes at December 09, 2009 04:05 PM (NHx89)
How abour proclaiming June 1 "Deadbeat Day" in honor of all those forgotten "Deadbeat Dads"?
TexasJew at December 09, 2009 07:59 PM
We could invite 4 milion white trash losers from trailer parks and call it the million teeth march.
Posted by: hutch1200 at December 09, 2009 04:05 PM (hfMOd)
How about 'racist?' That's pretty much descended to only the value of a slur, and we're told that only whitey can be racist.
Posted by: nickless at December 09, 2009 04:06 PM (MMC8r)
I get off on high post counts. Is there an insult for that?
Posted by: Cicero at December 09, 2009 08:02 PM (QKKT0)
That you're a Size Queen?
Posted by: TexasJew at December 09, 2009 04:06 PM (hgrfT)
Posted by: Zimriel at December 09, 2009 04:06 PM (04p0/)
Can you admit that out of all the slurs out there, you kind of have access to the best ones, and the people insulting you have only access to some relatively weak ones?
This is the sort of thing I'd expect to hear from a womyns studies professor or a diversity facillitator in SomeCorp USA, not from a right wing blogger.
All right Ace, we get that you care more about America's brutally oppressed minorites than we evil stumptoothed redknecks do.
Can we move on now?
Posted by: flenser at December 09, 2009 04:07 PM (0zOUj)
We could invite 4 milion white trash losers from trailer parks and call it the million teeth march.
Posted by: hutch1200 at December 09, 2009 08:05 PM (hfMOd)
Or the 8 million wife beater march.
Posted by: Blazer at December 09, 2009 04:08 PM (+FzLa)
Posted by: ace at December 09, 2009 04:08 PM (jlvw3)
Posted by: Zimriel at December 09, 2009 04:08 PM (04p0/)
We could invite 4 milion white trash losers from trailer parks and call it the million teeth march.
Posted by: hutch1200 at December 09, 2009 08:05 PM (hfMOd)
Check your demographics, Captain PC.
Posted by: TexasJew at December 09, 2009 04:08 PM (hgrfT)
Posted by: yeah, it's me at December 09, 2009 08:01 PM (UUkhk)
Post counts are meaningless. It's the "comment and post ratios" that are really important.
Posted by: progressoverpeace at December 09, 2009 04:08 PM (A46hP)
Posted by: Hamilton Burger at December 09, 2009 04:08 PM (UmOcE)
Post counts are meaningless. It's the "comment and post ratios" that are really important.
I'm gonna assume this was a subtle jab at Obama and call you clevah.
Well done.
Posted by: yeah, it's me at December 09, 2009 04:11 PM (Uf4aV)
"Can you admit that out of all the slurs out there, you kind of have access to the best ones, and the people insulting you have only access to some relatively weak ones?"
The best evidence off the top of my head that the object of namecalling has control over whether or not to be offended is that friends do call each other names as a form of bonding. If I can be called a name by one person without offense, but I'm offended by its use by another person, then the offense doesn't come from the use of the word itself. If you think about this, this means that any insult from namecalling doesn't come from the word, but from the perception of the intention of the speaker. As such, the word itself is actually irrelevant.
And I do understand that there is more to it than this. A big problem is that people are taught that some words are more offensive than others instead of being taught that the intention to be offensive is the problem. Why do we teach some people to be offended by words that are so commonly used? This is a failing of society, and it's a side issue here. I only mention it to express my understanding that the problem does exist and that the state of the world at this time is that some words are considered more offensive than others. I get that. I really do.
It's difficult to work within a broken system in order to make the broken system better.
Posted by: JohnJ at December 09, 2009 04:11 PM (QhemS)
And I think you're reading way too much significance into Ace not wanting to be embarrassed in front of real-life friends by association with the tone of certain comments.
It's not a big political thing. It's just basic people skills.
Posted by: sandy burger, future Democratic Pollster at December 09, 2009 04:12 PM (MT+0i)
On this same score-- If I'm insulting a woman, I have the b-word and the c-word to drop on her, if I want to go there.
The b-word is a hell-fire whereas the c-word is a nuclear tipped cruise missile. In the heat of the moment I dropped the c-word when arguing with my better half once.
Once.
Posted by: Blazer at December 09, 2009 04:12 PM (+FzLa)
Posted by: Dr. Spank at December 09, 2009 04:13 PM (mGSN1)
Posted by: Andrew Sullivan at December 09, 2009 04:13 PM (lyxff)
If you have to think as to whether or not your posting racist over the line shit, you probably are.
Posted by: Rickshaw Jack at December 09, 2009 04:13 PM (nE6Eu)
I'd like to be able to proclaim that I am indeed, not a racist. I am white, and I'm not apologetic for it. It's my skin color. But it doesn't define who I am inside. It's a struggle to keep from defining people or rather judging people by what they choose to identify themselves as primarily.
What I want is to be on the side of those who seem to define who they are inside - by their political convictions and beliefs and morality - if those convictions and beliefs and morality align with mine.
What I also wonder is this, for morons who are black: What went through your mind when you first heard the words of Rev Jeremiah Wright? Were you disturbed by his rhetoric, or did some of it hit home?
Just asking, no agenda here.
Posted by: Intrepid at December 09, 2009 04:14 PM (92zkk)
Posted by: meep at December 09, 2009 04:14 PM (Jw4eT)
I don't know if there's some anti-dude word they have.
ace - newsflash - they don't need mere words
.
Women have meta-communication skills. They have Looks, all kinds of different looks, looks ranging from "you're a jackass" to "you're never going to get laid" to "I'll kill you in your sleep" to "you = dog poop" and vaginas.
Women have those, too.
I'm told.
Posted by: BumperStickerist at December 09, 2009 04:14 PM (ruzrP)
I don't know if there's some anti-dude word they have.
Posted by: ace at December 09, 2009 08:08 PM (jlvw3)
You don't even have to go that far, just point out that the male equivalent of a "slut" is a "casanova". So ... there's no parity between the way society looks at men and women. Biology dictated that, the same way it dictated men and women to have different attitudes and approaches to sex.
The same applies to gay and straight, because they are different roles and have had very different histories. I don't see the confusion, or why there must be some enforced parity of offensive vocabularies. When offensive words are necessary, they are invented - pretty quickly usually. But, an offensive word works only if the target is offended and outraged and scandalized, for real, and those reactions are very different, not just individually.
Posted by: progressoverpeace at December 09, 2009 04:15 PM (A46hP)
Posted by: robtr at December 09, 2009 04:16 PM (fwSHf)
Posted by: Ulric the Shirtless Viking with a 6 pack, Ace's Scandi Homoerotic phantasy at December 09, 2009 04:16 PM (V/EYZ)
Anyway, I'm hoping that Obama appoints an "Insults Czar' charged with ensuring that all of Americas downtrodden minorites have access to the same quantity and quality of slurs as does the Straight White Man.
This "insult gap" cannot be permitted to continue into the 21st century.
Henceforth "straight" is to be considered an insult. Failure to cry when you are called 'straight" will be punishable by a fine of not less than $1,000.
Posted by: flenser at December 09, 2009 04:16 PM (0zOUj)
657 Sandy,
if Ace is getting grief from his often absentee landlord association with us morons in real life perhaps he needs new friends or to use that nom d plume for protection....
People skills are hard to do in a 2d word driven world like this one....you can't see a wink a smile or a nod while I post and I can't offer you a drink or a silence if you visibly need one either.
I am not going to get in the habit of allowing other people to set my ire bar.
Posted by: sven10077 at December 09, 2009 04:16 PM (dCpk3)
Posted by: ace at December 09, 2009 04:16 PM (jlvw3)
I guess I should have elaborated a certain point.
I've seen baldilocks around these parts for years. I like baldilocks. I knew she is a she. And I knew she is not a white she.
I would never write anything to hurt her personally. But you made it sound like I did. And I'm disappointed she took it personally. You both hung me out to swing in the wind.
Posted by: yeah, it's me at December 09, 2009 04:16 PM (Uf4aV)
Well, actually, these days just pointing out that someone is a straight white male is often meant as an insult. It doesn't bother most swm's, but just who they are is the insult.
Posted by: koopy at December 09, 2009 04:17 PM (XllG0)
Man, I was a liberal Christian back then. I deleted the email and just said "Take up any complaints with the dean" [the dude was pissed off he got an A- or B+ as it screwed up hi GPA. Well, dumbass, if you actually turned in any work you would have done better. I curved that class heavily, and you benefited by it].
Nowadays I would just CC the entire dept with that crap. Do not screw with a mean bitch.
Seriously, I'm the person setting the grades and you call me a cunt? WTF?
Posted by: meep at December 09, 2009 04:17 PM (Jw4eT)
Well hello cold and pasty!
Call me!
Posted by: IHOP Waitress at December 09, 2009 04:18 PM (nE6Eu)
Posted by: A Kike (Yes, an actual one) at December 09, 2009 04:18 PM (op9m5)
3,000 comments and I finally get a word in edgewise.
"...say it seriously, so everyone knows exactly what you mean."
Exactly. Knowing you are not particularly funny (by the measure of this place rather than your local) is valuable self-knowledge. You don't see me trying to be funny here, do you?
Homos are generally (IME) pretty good sports but if you are going to say something vicious it had better be funny.
Posted by: spongeworthy at December 09, 2009 04:18 PM (rplL3)
Posted by: meep at December 09, 2009 04:19 PM (Jw4eT)
Posted by: harrison at December 09, 2009 04:19 PM (Gv4O0)
Once.
Posted by: Blazer at December 09, 2009 08:12 PM (+FzLa)
Go for the trifecta: the phrase GCT
G*sh. C*nt. Tw*t. I use it at least once a week. I'm a broad, I can do so.
Posted by: laceyunderalls at December 09, 2009 04:19 PM (ViI4o)
Posted by: ace at December 09, 2009 04:19 PM (jlvw3)
Posted by: ace at December 09, 2009 04:20 PM (jlvw3)
Posted by: Rickshaw Jack at December 09, 2009 04:21 PM (nE6Eu)
Gay Icon Tom Berenger demonstrates how to fit in to your surroundings.Totally safe for work, home, school.
AoSHQ a really tough blog.
.
Posted by: BumperStickerist at December 09, 2009 04:22 PM (ruzrP)
Posted by: Obama aide at December 09, 2009 04:22 PM (V/EYZ)
What did I miss?"
I must be one sick puppy, but I found that worth a laugh.
Posted by: RTH615 at December 09, 2009 04:22 PM (Rytlc)
That's what Windings are for.
Posted by: Soap MacTavish at December 09, 2009 04:23 PM (554T5)
Can you admit that out of all the slurs out there, you kind of have access to the best ones, and the people insulting you have only access to some relatively weak ones?
Ace, I'm agnostic in this argument, so please don't label me a hater. Just a point of debate. But could the admission that one side of the argument has slurs that are relatively weak to the other sides correlate to a relative weakness in that side's general argument?
Posted by: Flying Monkey at December 09, 2009 04:23 PM (Oxen1)
damn women have got to learn to TOUGHEN UP and just learn NOT TO BE OFFENDED like us even-tempered straight white dudes.
Because it's common knowledge that women are tough as nails emotionally, unlike those pissy, wimpy straight white dudes who cry if anyone says something that hurts their widdle feelings.
Posted by: flenser at December 09, 2009 04:23 PM (0zOUj)
I have to say it:
And this is why we lose at the polls.
See I thought it was because independents were influenced by things like hope and change.
Posted by: Guy Fawkes at December 09, 2009 04:23 PM (DIYmd)
My sockpuppet routine includes me using part of my AoS handle. Like, Bawney Fwank1200.....Andi Sullihutch.
When I'm bein' a world class asshole, I want full credit for it!
Posted by: hutch1200 at December 09, 2009 04:24 PM (hfMOd)
Posted by: The Hammer at December 09, 2009 04:24 PM (YBTwf)
Sorry, meep. Did not intend.
You mean you didn't mean to call her a c by pasting her own words? Jeebus, is everybody getting thin-skinned here? Nobody would think you were insulting her! Am i missing a joke?
It has happened...
Posted by: spongeworthy at December 09, 2009 04:25 PM (rplL3)
We watched some t.v. and went to bed early. We just slept. I was tired from spending all that tax money.
Posted by: Barney Frank at December 09, 2009 04:25 PM (ZfqIh)
Posted by: ace at December 09, 2009 04:25 PM (jlvw3)
Posted by: wherestherum at December 09, 2009 04:25 PM (gofDd)
Even worse, Ace helped Tom Friedman write The World is Flat.
I knew some pseudo-intellectuals that liked the cut of Friedman's jive in that book. What a fascist bastard.
Posted by: Kratos (on the back of Gaia, scaling Mt Olympus) at December 09, 2009 04:26 PM (otlXg)
Absolutely.
Possibly hypothetical example: Let's say I have a group of drinking buddies. Drinking buddies give each other shit all the time, of course.
Now, let's say I invite a new friend to join us.
Some people have people skills. So, the new guy might join in with the mockery and make a good impression. Or, he might avoid the put-down type jokes but take part in the rest of the conversations, and make a good impression.
But some people don't have people skills, and try to join in with the mockery, but just come across as a douchebag and leave everyone wishing I hadn't invited him.
And if I tried to explain it to him, he'd be protesting, "What? What'd I do?! Nothing I said was half as bad as the jokes you made!"
Posted by: sandy burger, future Democratic Pollster at December 09, 2009 04:26 PM (MT+0i)
Go for the trifecta: the phrase GCT
G*sh. C*nt. Tw*t. I use it at least once a week. I'm a broad, I can do so.
Posted by: laceyunderalls at December 09, 2009 08:19 PM (ViI4o)
Posted by: laceyunderalls at December 09, 2009 08:19 PM (ViI4o)
No thank you. I enjoy drawing breaths.
Posted by: Blazer at December 09, 2009 04:27 PM (+FzLa)
Posted by: Hamilton Burger at December 09, 2009 08:08 PM (UmOcE)
It was there. You just couldn't see it because of the glare reflecting off your Turtle Wax.
Posted by: stuiec at December 09, 2009 04:27 PM (Ate22)
Posted by: ace at December 09, 2009 04:27 PM (jlvw3)
Posted by: rawmuse at December 09, 2009 04:27 PM (MelQB)
Posted by: nickless at December 09, 2009 04:28 PM (MMC8r)
I think if you reread what I wrote, I'm actually agreeing that, for better or for worse, people are taught to be more offended by some words than others. I tried to explain that this isn't the way that it should be, but I understand that it is the way it is. People should understand that the intention behind the word determines whether it is insulting. And I think people do understand this subconsciously to a degree. But at the same time we still have to deal with people who aren't accustomed to dealing with the issue that way. I get that. I really do.
As I've said several times, it's your blog, your rules. Sometimes rules to have to be arbitrary in order to deal pragmatically with an imperfect world. I'm fine with that.
I do think you're wrong that I can't be as offended by a deliberate insult as someone else simply because other people think some words are more offensive than others.
Posted by: JohnJ at December 09, 2009 04:28 PM (QhemS)
I can't believe I'm getting a poor-me over this.
heh
No, seriously, i'm just trying to state my case. You changed what I said and really made it ugly. That was not cool, Fonzy.
Posted by: yeah, it's me at December 09, 2009 04:29 PM (UUkhk)
Posted by: gus at December 09, 2009 04:29 PM (Vqruj)
Here's a funny one. Not sure why this is funny. I think I know who wrote this, but I'm not sure, so I won't assign credit that could be a false attribution. I'll let him take credit if it's his. Regarding Andrew Sullivan's odd assertion that he is beyond-expert in matters of human reproduction...
"Someone needs to explain to Andrew Sullivan that is favorite beverage is sometimes used to make babies."
What makes it really funny is knowing the old fatty joke as a setup,
"Someone needs to explain to Aunt Bertha that gravy is NOT a beverage."Posted by: Druid at December 09, 2009 04:29 PM (Gct7d)
Posted by: CoolCzech at December 09, 2009 04:31 PM (QECjC)
I feel special.
Posted by: ClassicCon at December 09, 2009 04:31 PM (v9U8I)
Uh, yeah. Okay, Ace. Whatevs.
Any of you Morons ever use Double My Speed.com to clean up your 'puters? Mine is painfully slow, but I don't want to spend another $30 for for yet another underwhelming program.
Posted by: RushBabe at December 09, 2009 04:32 PM (LKkE8)
Lot of people RRREAALLLY fighting for their right to drop the n-bomb.
This sort of stuff is beneath you, or so I'd like to think.
If you really think that "lots" of your commenters are racist bigots, than that says a lot about everybody involved here.
This eagerness to toss the "racist" card around sort of undermines your "I'm not going LGF on you guys" argument.
Posted by: flenser at December 09, 2009 04:32 PM (0zOUj)
Posted by: Dead or Alive wants to know what the fuck we're even talking about at this point at December 09, 2009 04:33 PM (ViI4o)
Posted by: Harry Reid at December 09, 2009 04:33 PM (mGSN1)
Posted by: ace at December 09, 2009 04:33 PM (jlvw3)
Posted by: The ending of the movie Paranormal at December 09, 2009 04:33 PM (V/EYZ)
Posted by: Dirty Sanchez at December 09, 2009 04:33 PM (YCVBL)
Any of you Morons ever use Double My Speed.com to clean up your 'puters? Mine is painfully slow, but I don't want to spend another $30 for for yet another underwhelming program.
Posted by: RushBabe at December 09, 2009 08:32 PM (LKkE
Free?
Posted by: Blazer at December 09, 2009 04:33 PM (+FzLa)
Posted by: jeff at December 09, 2009 04:34 PM (Sx9Qk)
Lot of people RRREAALLLY fighting for their right to drop the n-bomb.
This. I don't see it, Ace. And this is you again thinking/assuming the worst about the people who frequent your blog.
I wanna say it offends me, but that would make a hypocrite on account of what I wrote earlier. So I won't.
Posted by: yeah, it's me at December 09, 2009 04:34 PM (Uf4aV)
Posted by: ace at December 09, 2009 04:34 PM (jlvw3)
Posted by: MikeTheMoose at December 09, 2009 04:34 PM (FXhEv)
Can I add an obvious rule toeh the Ace Constitution.
Libtards are fair game.
I mean Obama, Pelosi, Reid, Bawney Fwank, Al Gore, John Kerry, John Edwards, Al Sharpton, Jesse Jackson, and Charles Rangel, cannot possibly be taken seriously.
They are the FRANK BURNS of politics.
Posted by: gus at December 09, 2009 04:35 PM (Vqruj)
Posted by: ace at December 09, 2009 04:35 PM (jlvw3)
I might even be forrester and Dysons Sphere too.
Posted by: Vmaximus at December 09, 2009 04:35 PM (EESSb)
In the heat of a big argument I tried to cut Mr. Y-not down to size by saying that he has "no subtlety of mind."
yeah, I don't know what it means either.
Posted by: Y-not at December 09, 2009 04:35 PM (sey23)
Okay, I'll play it straight. Ace, I love the site. I love what you do here. Thanks, man.
Can I get a hug now?
Posted by: KingShamus at December 09, 2009 04:35 PM (8n1j5)
Posted by: ace at December 09, 2009 08:33 PM (jlvw3)
That's just the same as calling him a leftist.
Posted by: progressoverpeace at December 09, 2009 04:36 PM (A46hP)
I guess I'm not wanted around here any more.
Posted by: Dirty Sanchez at December 09, 2009 08:33 PM (YCVBL)
On the contrary Rick, your welcome here anytime. Just have a friend drive you over and we'll make sure you get a cab back home.
Posted by: Blazer at December 09, 2009 04:36 PM (+FzLa)
Mark @ 69?
Apparently Barry swung by for his Nobel, and kept the meter running on AF1. No Tradional Dinner, interviews, or even meeting with the assholes that bestowed this upon him.
Hell, this prick spent more time sneaking out for a Kool behind Lt Worfs ass/face, than showing gratitude to these clowns..
Posted by: hutch1200 at December 09, 2009 04:36 PM (hfMOd)
Maybe I erred, then.
There is a type of joke I call the "anti-joke," which is setting up for a joke, using a joke's structure, but then either going weirdly literal and non-jokey or just otherwise in some strange direction.
An example, one of my first anti-jokes, is the old "You're mother's a whore because she..." sort of thing.
Like the usual joke is "You're mother's a whore because she's like a Lolipop, ten sucks for a quarter."
And there are a thousand variants.
One of mine was "You're mother's a whore because men pay her money for sexual favors."
Anti-joke.
Anyway, maybe I goofed and instead of doing a dumb joke I did some kind of anti-joke that works because it's so fucking dumb it actually becomes funny."
Hah! The Ace of Spades actually talked to me! Me!
BTW, it was "head full of semen" that cracked me up. I don't know Andrew Sullivan from a Girl Scout's oppressive sales-mom, so don't over-think it.
Posted by: RTH615 at December 09, 2009 04:36 PM (Rytlc)
Do you even know any regular black folk ?
Let you in on a little secret .
Generally speaking , they are more like Baldilocks than Cornell 'fuckin' West . You can't imagine the things we say to each other, in jest, on job sites . They're jokes , no one takes offense . If they do , fuck 'em .
No, we don't use 'n####r . No one does that . Not even here in redneckville.
Posted by: awkward davies at December 09, 2009 04:37 PM (wb68R)
I was just laughing at some of the comments here. What they amount to is, "Blah blah blah, whatever. Never mind all that; feed us."
Heh. Ace created the monster. Now he has to feed it. Damned good job too.
Posted by: Jek Porkins (rdb) at December 09, 2009 04:38 PM (MNZJ8)
You know what pisses off women when they're in a bad mood or just behaving like a nuisance?
Telling them, "You know what you need?" But you gotta say it right so they get the drift.
Posted by: yeah, it's me at December 09, 2009 04:38 PM (Uf4aV)
Posted by: ace at December 09, 2009 08:35 PM (jlvw3)
Now, this sort of insult works both ways. Finally, gender parity in insults achieved! Hallelujah!
Posted by: progressoverpeace at December 09, 2009 04:38 PM (A46hP)
Posted by: MikeTheMoose at December 09, 2009 04:38 PM (FXhEv)
I know about twenty five. Some have become great friends. Good people. Get thee to a moron meet-up.
Heck, I'm typing this in the house of someone I met through here/The Hostages.
Posted by: mesablue at December 09, 2009 04:38 PM (vAnE9)
Posted by: vai2112 at December 09, 2009 04:38 PM (pkOAj)
Posted by: ace at December 09, 2009 04:38 PM (jlvw3)
Posted by: MikeTheMoose at December 09, 2009 04:39 PM (FXhEv)
What amazes me is that Andrew and Bwarny will eat shit that a Cajun won't,...,
My Cajun tells me my GOP pooter tastes better than crawfish gumbo, cher!
Posted by: Mary Matalin at December 09, 2009 04:40 PM (4nNo8)
Posted by: Harry Reid at December 09, 2009 08:33 PM (mGSN1)
Is it possible that Ace is really just a gay black man? You know, like Chef from South Park, but bigger, and gay, and not a cartoon voiced by Isaac Hayes.
NTTIAWWTAITYKWIM
Posted by: Jim in San Diego at December 09, 2009 04:40 PM (H7Rlw)
Posted by: 'Nam Grunt at December 09, 2009 04:40 PM (DyTK1)
I come in from happy hour to see this? Thank you, Ace, for 'splaining it to me. I need another drink.
Posted by: KelliD at December 09, 2009 04:41 PM (Q9Cny)
Posted by: Charles Johnson from an alternate universe at December 09, 2009 04:41 PM (Vui52)
Nah, just do a disc cleanup and defrag. Then get rid of whatever programs you don't use and after all that is done, run an error check on your main drive. That'll get you up and going.
Posted by: koopy at December 09, 2009 04:41 PM (XllG0)
The way to insult a man is to accuse him of having feminine traits.
One of the worst insults to lay on a guy (sorry I kept doing this, guys) is to call him a "little bitch."
Yeah, I've noticed that women glow with pleasure with I tell them "You look like you could play linebacker for the Giants!"
At least I've always assumed that was pleasure. Just my cruel male nature I guess.
You really sound like you're channeling some feminist types here. Have you gotten hooked up with some girl from Barnard?
Posted by: flenser at December 09, 2009 04:41 PM (0zOUj)
Posted by: Miss'80sBaby at December 09, 2009 04:42 PM (zmiSr)
As in:
"You're EMOTIONAL!"
"Oh, I'm emotional? I'M emotional? YOU LITTLE WHORE I'LL SHOW YOU EMOTIONAL!!!"
Yeah, I personally don't like that one.
Posted by: ace at December 09, 2009 08:34 PM (jlvw3)
Seems that is a great big insult nowadays especially with my 14 yr. old and 16 yr. old boys. I hear this at least once a week:
"your an emo...."
"no, Your an Emo...."
"no,no,no, YOUR AN EMO"
Posted by: Blazer at December 09, 2009 04:42 PM (+FzLa)
You're saying it like there's a rash of this shit going on here. The bad comments are few and far between, as far as I can tell.
What are we talking, here, a tenth of a percent of the comments here are bad? Thar's my estimate.
Posted by: yeah, it's me at December 09, 2009 04:42 PM (Uf4aV)
Posted by: happyfeet at December 09, 2009 04:42 PM (sRVDC)
Posted by: ace at December 09, 2009 04:42 PM (jlvw3)
Sorry, child, but your mother lacks the ability to make this stop. You see, all of the evil and resentment in this world is partially caused by the new bride of Hades - Miss'80sbaby. After the death of Persephone, Hades wondered around Tartarus to find a consort and happened upon Miss'80sbaby. After their unholy union, Miss'80sbaby decided to tap into the power of Hades to spread misery across the mortal world.
Posted by: Kratos (on the back of Gaia, scaling Mt Olympus) at December 09, 2009 04:43 PM (otlXg)
Posted by: Empire of Jeff at December 09, 2009 04:43 PM (xGIqT)
Posted by: Bizarro White Reverend Wright at December 09, 2009 04:43 PM (V/EYZ)
Where was I? No clue.
Oh yeah, I got the 3000th post on the other thread so the Valu-Rite's on me. Go find your own hobos.
Posted by: kadreco at December 09, 2009 04:43 PM (uPkbz)
Look, I am just genuinely perplexed and taken aback by all these spurious arguments I keep hearing that argue only for the proposition: "Yeah, I get to be an asshole when I feel like it. JUST BECAUSE."
No, people reacted to your claim that lots of your commenters are just dying to be able to say "N!gger".
Posted by: flenser at December 09, 2009 04:44 PM (0zOUj)
(Actually, I LOLed)
Posted by: Miss'80sBaby at December 09, 2009 04:45 PM (zmiSr)
Look, I am just genuinely perplexed and taken aback by all these spurious arguments I keep hearing that argue only for the proposition: "Yeah, I get to be an asshole when I feel like it. JUST BECAUSE."
I don't get it.
Conservatives are generally in favor of social norms to engender civil behavior. And yet on this issue, again, it's THUNDERDOME, BABY!!!
Courtesy? Out the window, apparently. Judgment? Who needs it. Taste? Just a made-up fag-word for "keeping me in a cage."
I don't get. I genuinely do not get it. I do not get all the passion and anger at being told one fucking minor thing: AVOID GIVING UNDUE OFFENSE.
What's the alternative? TRY to give undue offense?
What?
Why is there all this shrieking about a fucking minor codicil of the Golden Rule?
I can answer this question rather easily. This site, for me, and as I am sure for many others, becomes the venting valve for the critical pressures built up living around, working with, and being deluged by the left. To many your trying to take away that safety critical relief valve which keeps all of that dangerous steam at a safe pressure. It's therapy for those who would never admit they need therapy. (See sub-thread about being called emotional as an aggressive male)
Posted by: MikeTheMoose at December 09, 2009 04:45 PM (gjvvn)
Posted by: ace at December 09, 2009 04:46 PM (jlvw3)
Posted by: Mey at December 09, 2009 04:46 PM (pNKSK)
764 Ace,
why the backflip here....
it is just words the worst insult another human being could levy on me is either "nazi"(a cheap moonbat stunt) or commie because I am neither and I hate both with a passion....
"birther"?
Not one so it doesn't bother me but the person can fire away....
I make it a goal of mine not to go too ballistic where direct offense to me singly isn't offered.
Posted by: sven10077 at December 09, 2009 04:46 PM (dCpk3)
Posted by: Bizarro White Reverend Wright at December 09, 2009 04:47 PM (V/EYZ)
Posted by: Gabriel Malor at December 09, 2009 04:47 PM (Mi2wf)
Here is what I hear you saying: Someone, somewhere created an arbitrary and unfair rule that some words are more insulting than other words.
I don't disagree that this is true. But I think it's an incomplete picture. I think it can be acknowledged that this is true while at the same time acknowledging that the rule is arbitrary and unfair and says more about the person(s) who made that rule than it says about any of us (we sure didn't make that rule). I want to fight to have this arbitrariness and unfairness overturned in the name of equality, and so that we can adopt a better rule, a rule which I think you're trying to get at in the first place: "If your intention is to spread hatred, then what you're saying is a bannable offense." Of course, it's the measuring of intention that's the problem.
Posted by: JohnJ at December 09, 2009 04:47 PM (QhemS)
90% of the people arguing about not being offended about words are the same people who get offended at the drop of a hat. --ACE
Second, Motion Carries.
Rinse and spit all!
Posted by: hutch1200 at December 09, 2009 04:48 PM (hfMOd)
Posted by: ace at December 09, 2009 04:48 PM (jlvw3)
90% of the people arguing about not being offended about words are the same people who get offended at the drop of a hat.
Point of order. The person here who seems to be the most offended by words is you. Most people here are pretty thickskinned.
You have a habit of accusing other people of whatever it is you are doing yourself.
Posted by: flenser at December 09, 2009 04:48 PM (0zOUj)
It's like reading a blog-entry by a woman of the more irrational sort . . .
Posted by: Little Miss Attila at December 09, 2009 07:32 PM (saBHO)
(yeah, yeah. I know. Bad. Banhammer. Slurs. Etc. Couldn't help myself. And I think LMAttila gets me.)
Posted by: Gabriel Malor at December 09, 2009 04:49 PM (Mi2wf)
let's not chase this rabbit out into a field so far that we lose sight of
1) Obama's a fuckstain
2) Congress needs to be cleaned out with a flame thrower
Settle the in-fighting quick fast and right fucking now.
Posted by: tangonine at December 09, 2009 04:49 PM (C8Pcc)
Posted by: Jek Porkins (rdb) at December 09, 2009 04:50 PM (MNZJ8)
I think it comes from two groups. First is the group that doth protest too much. You've uncovered their M.O. and either they are conscious of it and feel called out or weren't conscious of it and feel embarrassed.
Second is the group who bristles at the endless unfair accusations of racism against conservatives. Call them niggardly if you want, but there's no winning against the charge of racism. It forces you to prove a negative and any attempt to counteract it makes you look silly and defensive. So there is no defense.
We get enough of that crap from the Left and don't like it from our friends.
At least that's what I'm guessing. I'm not offended at all, except by the long posts. I was told there would be no reading.
Posted by: AmishDude at December 09, 2009 04:50 PM (ItSLQ)
Ace, in my opinion, you don't need to explain yourself so much here. Or be so apologetic about scolding some people. Just fucking ban them. I think most of your best commenters hate that shit as much as you do.
Posted by: dan-O at December 09, 2009 04:51 PM (yyakL)
Okay, time out for a second. Let's take a break for a minute.
Here, here's a quick review of Michael Caine's new movie HARRY BROWN.
Harry Brown is Death Wish meets Gran Torino meets Prime Suspect.
7/10 stars. See it.
Posted by: yeah, it's me at December 09, 2009 04:52 PM (UUkhk)
Posted by: JohnJ at December 09, 2009 04:52 PM (QhemS)
(Actually, I LOLed).
No? Damn... you mean it's going to take more than GoW references to offend you? I give up.
Posted by: Kratos (on the back of Gaia, scaling Mt Olympus) at December 09, 2009 04:52 PM (otlXg)
Posted by: vai2112 at December 09, 2009 04:53 PM (pkOAj)
781 Flenser,
I must have missed the evolution of my position from "I don't use the N bomb but a lot of black angst is performance art" to "Ace I have to have the N bomb in my arsenal" as well.....
I don't use it, I do use watermelon but in its orthodox sense of mockery of the Green $ociali$ts not because I am attempting to portray Barry Soetoro as a sambo.....
I get so lost.
Posted by: sven10077 at December 09, 2009 04:53 PM (dCpk3)
Think about that attorney ethical standard, avoiding the appearance of impropriety.
You want to avoid the appearence of impropriety? On this site? It's entire claim to fame is that it possesses the appearance of impropriety!
Posted by: flenser at December 09, 2009 04:53 PM (0zOUj)
Posted by: ace at December 09, 2009 08:42 PM (jlvw3)
Feel free to use "birther" - that seems to be the publicly accepted label these days, anyway - but you should mention dual-citizenship at the same time, as that is the bulk of the "birthing" issue. It's this lack of the dual-citizenship point that irks some .. sort of like people calling illegal aliens "illegal immigrants" just so they can drop the illegal and point out how we are "anti-immigrant".
Posted by: progressoverpeace at December 09, 2009 04:53 PM (A46hP)
Posted by: JohnJ at December 09, 2009 04:54 PM (QhemS)
Posted by: Jek Porkins (rdb) at December 09, 2009 04:54 PM (MNZJ8)
Posted by: Miss'80sBaby at December 09, 2009 04:54 PM (zmiSr)
Let you in on a little secret .
Generally speaking , they are more like Baldilocks than Cornell 'fuckin' West . You can't imagine the things we say to each other, in jest, on job sites . They're jokes , no one takes offense . If they do , fuck 'em ."
Bingo.
This special word shit's infantilizing, and molding generations of people with no perspective and who wilt so easily is not progress.
Posted by: A Kike (Yes, an actual one) at December 09, 2009 04:55 PM (op9m5)
Call me a "birther" to my face and you'll find yourself wishing you were in the womb again.
Posted by: tangonine at December 09, 2009 04:55 PM (C8Pcc)
Posted by: 'Nam Grunt at December 09, 2009 04:55 PM (DyTK1)
Posted by: Z Ryan at December 09, 2009 04:56 PM (cMo6P)
Posted by: ace at December 09, 2009 04:56 PM (jlvw3)
Jeezzz...is there any place where the PC Lib police can't flex their muscles???
Homosexuality is a sin. According to the Bible it's an abomination. God makes this pretty clear.
And we're supposed to ignore the fact that Obama's entire domestic agenda is nothing more than reparations by another name. All at the expense of white, working Americans.
OOOOkkkkayyyy. Sure. Whatever. Do the Libtards have something on you or something?
Posted by: RedStateEMT at December 09, 2009 04:56 PM (j84vT)
Screw this.. I say we all start our own blogs. Put your life/career on hold, give up normal sex with real women, and get shunned by all close associates, and drink Valu-Rite by the gallon because you can't look at yourself in the mirror.
Wait, that's what I did, not ACE. Nevermind.
Posted by: hutch1200 at December 09, 2009 04:56 PM (hfMOd)
Posted by: Ace's Last Ex at December 09, 2009 08:55 PM (0aQsc)
Are you a black tranny?
Posted by: Jim in San Diego at December 09, 2009 04:56 PM (H7Rlw)
7/10 and you say "see it?" really? 7/10 is ass my friend.
No, bro. I'm a tough critic. A seven is a good flick. My seven is probably your 8.
Posted by: yeah, it's me at December 09, 2009 04:56 PM (Uf4aV)
Eh.
Posted by: A Kike (Yes, an actual one) at December 09, 2009 04:56 PM (op9m5)
Like say the "compromise" Obama's minions in the AP are spittign out as Obamacare's final victory tonight?
By DAVID ESPO, AP Special Correspondent David Espo, Ap Special Correspondent – 25 mins ago
WASHINGTON – President Barack Obama as well as Democratic liberals and moderates all found something to like Wednesday in an emerging compromise to expand the role of government in the nation's health care system, raising hopes inside the party that passage of overhaul legislation might be within reach after a struggle lasting decades.
The same plan drew critics, though — and the threat of more opponents once closely held details become widely known.
Obama hailed "a creative new framework that I believe will help pave the way for final passage of legislation and a historic achievement for the American people." He said, "I support this effort, especially since it's aimed at increasing choice and competition and lowering cost."
A provision opening Medicare to uninsured Americans between the ages of 55 and 64 drew praise from some liberals.
Rep. Anthony Weiner, D-N.Y., called it "an unvarnished, complete victory for people like me who have been arguing for a single-payer system."
And we have our endgame, finally. Expanding medicare/caid, and tons of
new subsidies for everyone else, and a new federal insurance
commissioner to hassle insurance co's., and lead to single payer as
Weiner states.
This is goign to cost a fortune, but i bet the CBO puts most of it off on state budgets in its "scoring"
And a million new govt boards and agencies to hassle us and docs.
Note the Mayo Clinic's response from the bottom of AP's article:
The Mayo Clinic Health Policy Center sent notices to lawmakers
criticizing the emerging plan. Expanding Medicare to individuals 55 to
64 years old, it said, "would ultimately hurt patients by accelerating
the financial ruin of hospitals and doctors across the country."
AND, Here's Obama in August 2009 saying Mayo Clinic = best of American health care....
"We should ask why places like the Mayo Clinic in Minnesota, the Cleveland Clinic in Ohio and other institutions can offer the highest quality care at costs well below the national norm," Obama said in a letter to key Senate leaders in June. "We need to learn from their successes and replicate those best practices across our country."
Posted by: Anti-Harkonnen Freedom Fighter at December 09, 2009 04:57 PM (f0t8F)
Ace, that chicken is starting to look tired and worn out. I'll get one of my lackey's to bring a fresh one right over along with a complimentary calendar.
Toodles !
-Chucky
Posted by: Charles Johnson at December 09, 2009 04:58 PM (+FzLa)
Posted by: Dirty Sanchez at December 09, 2009 04:59 PM (YCVBL)
Posted by: 'Nam Grunt at December 09, 2009 04:59 PM (DyTK1)
Posted by: vai2112 at December 09, 2009 04:59 PM (pkOAj)
Posted by: ace at December 09, 2009 05:00 PM (jlvw3)
You, as the owner, have to adjust your rules and the enforcement there-of or risk running off more of your customers than you wish.
It's how it should be and I'm thinking it will always be a work in progress.
Until B to the O's Administration shuts AoS down for being RW Extremists.
Posted by: The Hammer at December 09, 2009 05:00 PM (YBTwf)
No one gets called a "Chink" in China, guys.
Yeah, but don't go offering toasts to the Emperor of Japan.
Posted by: Flying Monkey at December 09, 2009 05:00 PM (Oxen1)
Posted by: yeah, it's me
Well aren't you fancy.
Posted by: Z Ryan at December 09, 2009 05:00 PM (cMo6P)
Posted by: tangonine at December 09, 2009 05:00 PM (C8Pcc)
Posted by: Mr. Pink at December 09, 2009 05:01 PM (V/EYZ)
Isn't that interesting? This is an important point, so pay attention.
The Deciders are all using the same language: "Democratic liberals and moderates"
This is insdious and really clever. They're doing to a) create an image of bipartisanship, and b) to phase out the Republican party.
You see, the Republican party is irrevelant, out-of-touch, extreme, the party of no, the party of Beck and Palin.
You have everything you need in the Democrat party.
Posted by: yeah, it's me at December 09, 2009 05:02 PM (Uf4aV)
It's not arbitrary, man. These words all do one thing: Stigmatize the outsider, the minority.
You -- and me -- are part of the dominant group here.
Ok, this is all a fucking joke, right? Ace is going to turn around any moment and say "I cannot believe you morons fell for that phony leftwing crap! I could hardly stop laughing while typing it."
Because if that's not that case - then Ace, you are the new Charles Johnson. You'll be citing the Southern Poverty Law Center and frettng about Vlaams Belang next.
Posted by: flenser at December 09, 2009 05:02 PM (0zOUj)
Ace, don't listen to all the haters hatin' on the length of the post.
It was well thought-out, well written (aside from numerous brutal typos), and a pleasure to read.
Well done, sir.
Posted by: Lewis at December 09, 2009 05:02 PM (23X4s)
Posted by: Bill D. Cat at December 09, 2009 05:03 PM (vKdhq)
(1) I can't speak for the other gay guys around here, but Andrew Sullivan is so deserving of mockery that I'm not even bothered by the rote "he's gay" insults. I assume people mean he's, you know, gay, not like I'm gay, but that other way, you know, where you've so completely lost your mind that you become obsessed with a vice-presidential candidate's naughty bits to the point of seeming unaware that her husband is majorly hot, which, frankly, is a kind of gay that I am simply not familiar with and very much want to avoid.
(2) There are plenty of places in the conservative blogosphere where gays are clearly not welcome, where we are cheap and easy targets, where I'm bound to be insulted or demeaned every time I visit. This has never been one of those places -- not by a long shot -- and I appreciate your concern for keeping it that way. Again, I can speak only for myself, but I don't think you have to be all that worried.
Posted by: Stealth Gay Academic Conservative at December 09, 2009 05:03 PM (MoKwg)
You've established that you can't even -conceive- of straight white males being stigmatized, but in ignoring the single and only racial slur that is still considered perfectly acceptable and gets bandied about regularly across all forms of media, I think this is mostly just a factor of you not paying attention.
Just sayin'.
Qwinn
Posted by: Qwinn at December 09, 2009 05:03 PM (SxA2Q)
Posted by: Mr. Pink at December 09, 2009 09:01 PM (V/EYZ)
827 826,Amen!
Posted by: 'Nam Grunt at December 09, 2009 09:02 PM (DyTK1)
Me too. Can we have a different thread?
Posted by: katya at December 09, 2009 05:03 PM (brVeg)
Ah, I finally understand the what's what here...
Mr. ace, upon seeing the evidence that anyone can do it, decided to vye for next year's Peace Prize.
Posted by: laceyunderalls at December 09, 2009 05:04 PM (ViI4o)
You -- and me -- are part of the dominant group here. You cannot stigmatize the dominant group very easily!"
Okay, what the hell happened to the real Ace? This has to be a joke or a bad dream or something.
Should I bother pointing out the fact that I grew up a white kid in a predominantly black Southern town? Would that really make a difference? I don't know why it would. Apparently I don't know what it's like to be a minority just because I'm a white, heterosexual male (which actually composes in the neighborhood of 20 percent of the population). My skin color defines me to you.
Why are we measuring things like this? I thought the whole point was to measure people as individuals, not divide them up by race, gender, and sexual orientation, granting special privileges to some and not others.
I want the real Ace back!
Posted by: JohnJ at December 09, 2009 05:04 PM (QhemS)
821 Ace,
so you're back to the magic words routine wherein the very fact that the word N bomb exists justifies buying into leftard PC hysteria about "generational rage" and such....
dude I don't drop, nor do I have anything other than a subliminal uncontrolled by me(evidently) hidden desire to drop the N bomb....
I find the notion that the use of the word N bomb by an individual gives the greenlight to people going Reginald Denny because of "racial traumas" they likely did not suffer to be....what would Spock say....'fascinating'....
I think a lot of us have outgrown our own tarnished and clammy high school experiences and I assure you my peers were quite capable of finding ways to hurt me that did not require the magic word just a lot of bile and antipathy....some possibly earned and some decidedly unearned.
Posted by: sven10077 at December 09, 2009 05:04 PM (dCpk3)
Posted by: redrock at December 09, 2009 05:05 PM (VSWPU)
Posted by: ace at December 09, 2009 05:05 PM (jlvw3)
7/10 and you say "see it?" really? 7/10 is ass my friend.
No, bro. I'm a tough critic. A seven is a good flick. My seven is probably your 8.
So you're thinking you're a better judge of movies than me (and everyone else)? I'm kinda in one of those "really? fucker?" moods tonight... so explain to me why you're more qualified to judge a movie than everyone else is.
g'head. Mic's yours.
Posted by: tangonine at December 09, 2009 05:05 PM (C8Pcc)
Definition please.
Posted by: Intrepid at December 09, 2009 05:05 PM (92zkk)
And I thought it was the meth.
Posted by: alexthechick at December 09, 2009 05:05 PM (nwTNa)
Posted by: Miss'80sBaby at December 09, 2009 05:05 PM (zmiSr)
Posted by: Pelayo at December 09, 2009 05:06 PM (8NGHm)
Posted by: Amy Winehouse at December 09, 2009 05:06 PM (Ylv1H)
Decadent? Definitely. Little? Well, I'd need pics for confirmation but if you possess the same soul-swallowing ability Hades has...
Let you win? Never!
Posted by: Kratos (on the back of Gaia, scaling Mt Olympus) at December 09, 2009 05:07 PM (otlXg)
Posted by: USCitizen at December 09, 2009 05:07 PM (x0kcN)
ace -
I'm a reasonably tall guy - an actual 6'4" which is 6'14" by internet standards, I buy 2XLT shirts. I've noticed that stores put clothes for tall people at the bottom of the shelves and the clothes for short people at the top of the shelves?
What's up with that?
Thanks in advance.
Posted by: BumperStickerist at December 09, 2009 05:07 PM (ruzrP)
Posted by: ace at December 09, 2009 08:56 PM (jlvw3)
No but I was called a Gweilo when I was there.
Posted by: TheQuietMan at December 09, 2009 05:07 PM (3V1Co)
Right, lots of white guys like flenser who are superhumanly cool and unflappable regarding the use of the word n!gg@r.
Again with that word with the symbols instead of letters. It changes it just enough so as to claim you really didn't type it in its real form...which makes it so much more acceptable..
Posted by: beedubya at December 09, 2009 05:07 PM (AnTyA)
841 Ace,
so ban the guy....no joke but please sir don't go implying that my pointing out that our being forced to pretend that the N bomb is some magical button that shuts off the ability of a minority to reason or maintain their cool is idiotic denotes a desire to use it.
Posted by: sven10077 at December 09, 2009 05:08 PM (dCpk3)
I love this. It's a classic bait-and-switch. So they spent all this time trying to get one bill, arguing, compromising, getting amendments. They get it through the House and then completely change everything about it (at least superficially) and say, "well how about this one?"
Posted by: AmishDude at December 09, 2009 05:08 PM (ItSLQ)
Right, lots of white guys like flenser who are superhumanly cool and unflappable regarding the use of the word "n!gg@r."
Again, Big Damn Hero. Isn't upset by slurs that don't target him. Also is not upset about hypothetical slurs that DO target him, but don't acually exist.
Well, have you seen me running around here snivelling when people call me names? I've been called worse than "N!gger" on this site. I punch back hard, then forget about it.
That used to be the Ace of Spades way.
Posted by: flenser at December 09, 2009 05:08 PM (0zOUj)
177 You cannot name a single "slur" on white people that you really think you need a bit of polite protection of.
"Mets Fan"
Now this here is some kinda hate speech.Especially after those infernal Yankees won.
Posted by: Blue Hen at December 09, 2009 05:08 PM (1O93r)
But I'm pretty sure you have not been picked on and stigmatized for being straight, or white, or male.
Insert the word "Southern" in there and then it moves to the realm of "likely".
Posted by: Mama AJ at December 09, 2009 05:09 PM (Be4xl)
>>>N G G E R
>>>Posted by: Rickshaw Jack
As I said, some people just want the space to use that magic word that others claim is not magical at all.
Posted by: ace
Is that you you took away form that? really? No underlying message form the south park episode that it is from?
Posted by: Rickshaw Jack at December 09, 2009 05:09 PM (nE6Eu)
Posted by: Puppet master at December 09, 2009 05:09 PM (PNqW6)
Posted by: wherestherum at December 09, 2009 05:10 PM (gofDd)
Fuck off.
Posted by: tangonine at December 09, 2009 05:10 PM (C8Pcc)
Posted by: Z Ryan at December 09, 2009 05:10 PM (cMo6P)
Posted by: Pelayo at December 09, 2009 05:10 PM (8NGHm)
Posted by: Whitey McWhiterson, regular white AoS poster who loves to use the N word at December 09, 2009 05:10 PM (V/EYZ)
Foolish to assume I could come back 3 hours later and be the Devil Post. Dernit.
Can we get the ONT up soon?
Posted by: Dang Straights at December 09, 2009 05:10 PM (bOV32)
Posted by: ace at December 09, 2009 08:56 PM (jlvw3)
No but I was called a Gweilo when I was there.
And that makes it okay?
Posted by: katya at December 09, 2009 05:10 PM (brVeg)
Posted by: Baron Von Ottomatic at December 09, 2009 05:11 PM (0o/nL)
Posted by: ace at December 09, 2009 09:05 PM (jlvw3)
It's a South Park reference. Randy Marsh was a contestant on Wheel of Fortune. The answer was supposed to be "nagger". Randy picked another word. Hilarity ensues.
Posted by: AmishDude at December 09, 2009 05:11 PM (ItSLQ)
See, some of this is bullshit. You can't refer to a car as having been "President-rigged" or keep making references to watermelons and then come back later and say you were joking. Those are not jokes--they're too friggin' cheap to be funny. You want to know how cheap? I could make those "jokes" and I am not a funny guy.
I am a serious observer. I mean that!
Posted by: spongeworthy at December 09, 2009 05:11 PM (rplL3)
As I said, some people just want the space to use that magic word that others claim is not magical at all.
What makes certain words "magical" is that they are forbidden. You're the one conferring magical power on it. You and the rest of the faculty of Berkely
Posted by: flenser at December 09, 2009 05:12 PM (0zOUj)
Posted by: evil libertarian at December 09, 2009 05:12 PM (KxYmA)
Posted by: wherestherum at December 09, 2009 05:12 PM (gofDd)
What would you really feel if I called you honkeys right now?
You'd be... um, really, really stung by that, huh?
Posted by: Ace at December 09, 2009 06:10 PM
I'm tellin' ya man, when George Jefferson spewed out the H-Word every other line, I was devastated, and couldn't think straight for 5 minutes. It SCARRED me, man. I knew how the Potato Famine Irish felt right at that moment
Posted by: kbdabear at December 09, 2009 05:12 PM (sYxEE)
Posted by: ace at December 09, 2009 05:12 PM (jlvw3)
I love this. It's a classic bait-and-switch. So they spent all this time trying to get one bill, arguing, compromising, getting amendments. They get it through the House and then completely change everything about it (at least superficially) and say, "well how about this one?"
Posted by: AmishDude at December 09, 2009 09:08 PM (ItSLQ)
That's right. Up to 66K = now medicaid eligible.
55 and up, medicare.
so, we're well on our way to single payer - that's why Weiner is happy.
In 2014, obama will propose to close the loop and "medicaid for all"
and we'll have single payer.
This was the plan all along, the "public option" was just a distraction, from day one. The goal is more govt health care control, period. the public option is nothing comparted to 55 year old medicare and 66k income medicaid.
and the conservatives dont even really understand yet what's happened, that's the pathetic part.
Posted by: Anti-Harkonnen Freedom Fighter at December 09, 2009 05:13 PM (f0t8F)
The book of our time... Newsmax.
So many twists and turns it keeps you guessing all the way to the middle. Drudge.
It's the first thing officially on my reading list! Palin.
In bookstores which have forklifts now, get it as a Christmas gift. Banhammer Coming Out
Posted by: MikeTheMoose at December 09, 2009 05:13 PM (FXhEv)
857,
Si so is Gringo or anglo-dog Mi Amigo...remember only diablo blanco has power and one needs power to insult si?
Posted by: sven10077 at December 09, 2009 05:13 PM (dCpk3)
Make sure and use 'pinche pendejo' to endear yourself to your spanish-speaking burritohead friends. A lot.
Posted by: Dang Straights at December 09, 2009 05:13 PM (bOV32)
I'm fine with banning the damn word because it's commonly considered offensive. But this talk of special protections for certain kinds of people, not because there's a universal consensus that the word is offensive, but because some people are more deserving of protection than others, is totally liberal.
Posted by: JohnJ at December 09, 2009 05:13 PM (QhemS)
Posted by: Zeh Ryan at December 09, 2009 05:14 PM (cMo6P)
846 I was very fortunate to have a black man teaching sophomore American History in high school in 1963.
Was his name Sidney Poitier ?
Posted by: Barbarian at December 09, 2009 05:15 PM (EL+OC)
Maet--you reading? If so, please can we has ONT early tonight?
I can't take the consternation. I'm a lover; not a fighter! (last night's shenanigans aside--sorrry again MiM if you're reading)
Posted by: laceyunderalls at December 09, 2009 05:15 PM (ViI4o)
What makes certain words "magical" is that they are forbidden. You're the one conferring magical power on it. You and the rest of the faculty of Berkely
Eh, that's not gonna hold-up real well.
Posted by: Jek Porkins (rdb) at December 09, 2009 05:15 PM (MNZJ8)
Posted by: Anti-Harkonnen Freedom Fighter at December 09, 2009 09:13 PM (f0t8F)
Face it, this country's going down. It's sad and totally unnecessary, but that's what going to happen.
Posted by: progressoverpeace at December 09, 2009 05:15 PM (A46hP)
Posted by: Ripley at December 09, 2009 05:15 PM (orbdz)
yes, tangonine, I am a better judge of movies than you.
I'll prove it.
I'll bet you liked Batman and Ocean's Eleven. Am I right?
QED
Posted by: yeah, it's me at December 09, 2009 05:16 PM (UUkhk)
What makes certain words "magical" is that they are forbidden. You're the one conferring magical power on it. You and the rest of the faculty of Berkely
Posted by: flenser at December 09, 2009 09:12 PM (0zOUj)
Oh, please. Words have meanings and taboos because they have meanings. There isn't some secret language cabal making up racial insults.
And a racial or group insult generally isn't the same as a personal insult. If you are called an asshole, then you are the asshole. There isn't a group of self-identified assholes at the Asshole Defamation League who are insulted indirectly. But when you make a racial insult, it reflects on innocents.
Posted by: AmishDude at December 09, 2009 05:16 PM (ItSLQ)
Also, he lives in a lighthouse.
Posted by: Zeh Ryan at December 09, 2009 05:16 PM (cMo6P)
Famous last words from Obama and Weiner:
Obama hailed "a creative new framework that I believe will help pave the way for final passage of legislation and a historic achievement for the American people." He said, "I support this effort, especially since it's aimed at increasing choice and competition and lowering cost."
A provision opening Medicare to uninsured Americans between the ages of 55 and 64 drew praise from some liberals.
Rep. Anthony Weiner, D-N.Y., called it "an unvarnished, complete victory for people like me who have been arguing for a single-payer system."
Posted by: Anti-Harkonnen Freedom Fighter at December 09, 2009 05:16 PM (f0t8F)
Posted by: redrock at December 09, 2009 05:16 PM (VSWPU)
Posted by: Miss'80sBaby at December 09, 2009 05:17 PM (zmiSr)
888 PoP,
actually I kind of welcome his overreach with EPA....
I think it'll be the straw that breaks the Union and I'll move to Texas.
Posted by: sven10077 at December 09, 2009 05:17 PM (dCpk3)
Thanks for the computer cleaner suggestions, fellas. (And, Blazer, the free version prob'ly doesn't do much since they really want to sell you the $30 version.)
Now, back to your regularly scheduled program. (I liked the Memorial Day weekend blockbuster better, though.)
Posted by: RushBabe at December 09, 2009 05:17 PM (LKkE8)
Posted by: Barbarian at December 09, 2009 09:15 PM (EL+OC)
No, they called him MISTER Tibbs.
Posted by: Ripley at December 09, 2009 05:18 PM (orbdz)
Posted by: AmishDude at December 09, 2009 09:16 PM (ItSLQ)
Posted by: TheQuietMan at December 09, 2009 05:18 PM (3V1Co)
Posted by: alexthechick at December 09, 2009 09:05
Yeah the "meth mouth" thing really screws up your life.
BTW morons, get your"Christmas" meth order in soon.
"Tweaking through the snow
Chasing a freezing Hobo..
Oh what fun it is to be totally out of your gord!"
Posted by: hutch1200 at December 09, 2009 05:18 PM (hfMOd)
Again, Big Damn Hero. Isn't upset by slurs that don't target him. Also is not upset about hypothetical slurs that DO target him, but don't acually exist.
It's a good thing nobody ever called me a racist, a white supremacist, or a Nazi.
What with my tender white male oppressor class sensibility, I'd probably have a nervous breakdown.
That seems to be what happened to Ace. There but for the grace of God ...
Posted by: flenser at December 09, 2009 05:18 PM (0zOUj)
Posted by: Ace at December 09, 2009 06:15 PM (jlvw3)
Every Sunday night, instead of writing angry emails to the Giants front office, you should read Maetenloch's "Top 10 Sockpuppeteers of the Week"
You're going to really make the guy insecure, and wonder if you're prejudiced against his kind..
Posted by: kbdabear at December 09, 2009 05:18 PM (sYxEE)
You most certainly can. And liberals have done it well. Consider: it was perfectly acceptable for someone to proclaim that Obama's race was an important factor in the decision to vote for Obama, and unacceptable to say that his race was a factor in a decision to vote for someone else.
I'm getting really concerned about this newfound liberalism.
Posted by: JohnJ at December 09, 2009 05:19 PM (QhemS)
Posted by: wherestherum at December 09, 2009 05:19 PM (gofDd)
Posted by: ace at December 09, 2009 05:19 PM (jlvw3)
Posted by: CoolCzech at December 09, 2009 05:19 PM (QECjC)
Also, he lives in a lighthouse.
And has one of those stupid beards. You know the ones without the mustache. And wears a white cable-knit turtleneck sweater.
Posted by: yeah, it's me at December 09, 2009 05:20 PM (UUkhk)
It's kind of hard to initiate coitus when there are two large blades attached to your back and when you're covered with the blood and viscera of your enemies.
Posted by: Kratos (on the back of Gaia, scaling Mt Olympus) at December 09, 2009 05:20 PM (otlXg)
That's your first mistake.
Posted by: Ripley at December 09, 2009 05:20 PM (orbdz)
YAWN! I'm Catholic, have you any idea how many times I've been verbally sent to hell? Toughen up. It's called faith for a reason.
Posted by: MikeTheMoose at December 09, 2009 05:20 PM (FXhEv)
Am I wrong?
Posted by: CoolCzech at December 09, 2009 09:19 PM (QECjC)
Yes. The cats are mine.
Posted by: Mætenloch at December 09, 2009 05:20 PM (mQi3C)
I'll point out that if Goldstein and ace had tackled this type of topic on "Hoist the Black Flag" (RIP), they'd be ...
nevermind.
Posted by: BumperStickerist at December 09, 2009 05:20 PM (ruzrP)
Posted by: wherestherum at December 09, 2009 05:21 PM (gofDd)
It's not quite as bad, but this is the line of thinking that gives us that 'racism = power' horseshit. Better off left in the lunatic asylum known as the Western university system.
Many countries in this world, in fact, are actually dominated by a minority group, in large part due to their presumed superiority over the majority. Most of Latin America, for instance, is run by white Spaniards. Syria is run by Alawites. Liberia is run by American black expatriates. Colonialism was built on it and it died the moment that stigmatization was taking away by, for instance, the utter defeat of the majority's supposedly superior overlords [the French, British (in Asia), Dutch, etc.] during World War II.
Why don't you pull that straight white guy routine with me? You think I deserve special treatment because of my ancestor's treatment?
No thanks.
They're words - big fucking deal.
Posted by: A Kike (Yes, an actual one) at December 09, 2009 05:21 PM (op9m5)
Posted by: CoolCzech at December 09, 2009 05:22 PM (QECjC)
Posted by: Kratos (on the back of Gaia, scaling Mt Olympus)
That's a seriously elaborate metaphor for premature ejaculation.
Posted by: Z Ryan at December 09, 2009 05:22 PM (cMo6P)
Granted, Ace and his Jr High buds joked about their moms and their various sexual exploits, but down here where I live, you just don't rag on another person's mama like that.
Plus, Ace has the urban experience of having friends amongst many cultural groups. But some of us live in rural US and can't go out and have Greek Souflakis (sp?) for lunch and think it's normal.
Although, I'd sure like to have a nice souflaki now.....sadly, rural mid TN doesn't have many Greek restaurants. (although I have traveled a bit in the last 20 plus years)
Posted by: Intrepid at December 09, 2009 05:22 PM (92zkk)
Posted by: ace at December 09, 2009 08:46 PM (jlvw3)
Ace, you ask whether there are slurs against straight white men that are equivalent to the n-word. Consider gwailo and gaijin - in China and Japan, respectively, these words imply that the straight white man is a lesser, less civilized being than the Han Chinese or Japanese, respectively.
Flash back to America in the mid-20th century: straight white men occupied the apex of the societal hierarchy and were the normative "persons who should be in charge." You wanted to insult a straight white Christian male American? You inferred that he was like some other class of person:
Gay: "You fag!"
Black: "Get your cotton-pickin' hands off of me!"
Jewish: "He wanted 20 but I Jewed him down to 10."
Female: "Don't be such a pussy!"
Southerner: "Hey, hillbilly, you're in the big city now."
Of course, you could use the same or similar epithets to remind the people actually in those categories of their lower rank - and the unlikelihood of ever moving up the societal scale.
Has society changed all that much? I dunno - call a straight white guy a "cocksucker" and see whether he takes it in stride. Hell, even the PC brigades who pride themselves on never uttering offensive slurs will casually drop "it sucks" into conversation, not realizing how that term reflects an ingrained belief that the penetrative partner in a sex act is somehow on a higher rank than the penetrated partner.
"Andrew Sullivan is a faggot" is a crude statement of fact - offensive because it doesn't reveal anything we didn't know about Sullivan and only reveals the speaker's animus. "Andrew Sullivan doesn't realize that his favorite beverage can be used to make babies" is funny and incisive because it reveals that Andrew Sullivan, out-and-proud gay crusader, thinks he knows more about the female reproductive system and the behavior of expectant mothers than Sarah Palin does.
"Barack Obama turned the Rose Garden into a watermelon patch" is a crude way to remind us of the obvious - Obama is Black - by resorting to a racial stereotype. Better is "The White House gardener offered to turn the Rose Garden into a watermelon patch, but an outraged Obama fired him, saying, 'Can you believe that guy? Everyone knows that the soil in Washington is perfect for growing arugula!'" Better, because it acknowledges the stereotype and then turns it back around onto Obama's effete elitist snobbery.
Posted by: stuiec at December 09, 2009 05:23 PM (Ate22)
Too true, Rum. Also between genders. Women stereotype each other, & I'm sure men do the same.
Posted by: Miss'80sBaby at December 09, 2009 05:23 PM (zmiSr)
Posted by: ARC at December 09, 2009 05:23 PM (Hb+LB)
Words have meanings and taboos because they have meanings.
That's idiotic. The c word means "vagina'. Why can we say one and not the other? Not because of the meaning, obviously.
Posted by: flenser at December 09, 2009 05:23 PM (0zOUj)
Posted by: ace at December 09, 2009 05:24 PM (jlvw3)
Posted by: Anti-Harkonnen Freedom Fighter at December 09, 2009 09:16 PM
the medicare takover has been in the works from day one. why some conservatives are ready to dump gatorade on each other is beyond me. the game has been rigged and we are at the 2 minute warning.
Posted by: evil libertarian at December 09, 2009 05:24 PM (KxYmA)
Posted by: Bill D. Cat at December 09, 2009 05:24 PM (vKdhq)
Posted by: Conan the Barbarian at December 09, 2009 05:24 PM (QECjC)
Posted by: Pelayo at December 09, 2009 05:24 PM (8NGHm)
Posted by: redrock at December 09, 2009 05:24 PM (VSWPU)
You cannot just walk into Beijing and giggle "Hah hah, you're all Chinese!" and expect that to have much sting.
WTF? Go into a bar in the hood and call everyone there a racial slur and see if anything stings after that. Of course you can insult the majority.
Posted by: JohnJ at December 09, 2009 05:24 PM (QhemS)
Posted by: katya at December 09, 2009 05:25 PM (brVeg)
Incidentally, I really want to know who the sockpuppeters are.
You really don't read this blog, do you Ace?
Posted by: Dang Straights at December 09, 2009 05:25 PM (bOV32)
You are getting awful close to "only white people can be racist" territory. When the Reverend Wright calls you "cracker" or "redneck" he means it in the same way with all the animus of Robert Byrd calling blacks a "mongrel race". The notion that only white people can make racial slurs because only white people have the rhetorical arsenal to do so is absurd.
Posted by: carl at December 09, 2009 05:25 PM (BZZ7R)
Posted by: steevy at December 09, 2009 05:25 PM (RtNEG)
hey i hate shoes what does everyone else think you all hate shoes too right?
Posted by: Z Ryan at December 09, 2009 05:26 PM (cMo6P)
Eh, I wasn't complaining; merely pointing out that members of 'dominant groups' can be offended, & that people offend each other all-the-time. They can keep insulting, for all I care.
Posted by: Miss'80sBaby at December 09, 2009 05:26 PM (zmiSr)
Posted by: ace at December 09, 2009 05:27 PM (jlvw3)
Oh by the way they consider that proselytizing. We Catholics try to use happy face recruiting now. We tried the unhappy face and people kept running around shouting "inquisition!" or some such nonsense.
Posted by: MikeTheMoose at December 09, 2009 05:27 PM (FXhEv)
You have to sort of outnumber a group to be able to slur it.
I don't know. I think the liberals try pretty hard to break this rule. But maybe it's just the fact that they are delusional and really believe everyone must think like them.
Posted by: Mama AJ at December 09, 2009 05:27 PM (Be4xl)
Posted by: John Galt at December 09, 2009 05:27 PM (Ylv1H)
It's not arbitrary. All of this stuff relies upon group enforcement of a norm and defined deviation from the norm. All insults, really, at their heart, express a simple statement: You are different from us and in an inferior way, too.
Every fat joke, queer joke, bald joke, black joke, Polish joke, Italian joke, small-dick joke, Catholic joke, poor joke, whore joke, redneck joke, trailer-trash joke, virgin joke, every single put-down in the history of put-downs relies on its heart on identifying a point of difference and calling that difference bad.
I repeat, this stuff is all well know to everybody here. You're not telling us anything we have not heard before. And it's all lefty PC bullshit.
Posted by: flenser at December 09, 2009 05:28 PM (0zOUj)
It's not that easy. For one thing, Charles Johnson "set the rules" and that had consequences that I don't want.
I don't just get to set the rules, really. I can set the rules but I also need to explain to people why I'm doing it in a way that, well, even if they don't agree, they don't think I'm being unreasonable.
Posted by: ace at December 09, 2009 06:53 PM (jlvw3)
Comment registration would probably result in a fixed nickname, killing the sockpuppeting option that creates so many laughs.
Without sockpuppeting, people here wouldn't like me so much. Well, ok, they'd stop tolerating me and ace would have the crew pin me down and give me the Atomic Wedgie
Posted by: kbdabear at December 09, 2009 05:28 PM (sYxEE)
Brick wall?
heh, that's funny because no matter how many times we say no one here is lobbying for free license to use *that* word or make racist remarks, you don't believe us.
Posted by: yeah, it's me at December 09, 2009 05:28 PM (Uf4aV)
Posted by: Conan the Barbarian at December 09, 2009 05:28 PM (QECjC)
Posted by: DelD at December 09, 2009 05:28 PM (rC+/c)
Posted by: JohnJ at December 09, 2009 05:29 PM (QhemS)
927 Ace,
that has to be it...our inability to buy into the notion that only whites can be offensive is tied to our irrational distrust of collectivist dems who engage in racial grievance mongering and machine politics....
I know I'll give up on the Lockeian ideals of individual responsibility and liberty and join the Donk Borg Collective thinkers.
Posted by: sven10077 at December 09, 2009 05:29 PM (dCpk3)
>>>You think I deserve special treatment because of my ancestor's treatment?
I do, idiot. I think I probably should not call you a kike or any other Jewish slurs.
You think that Jews deserve special treatment for being Jews?
A lot of stuff is coming out in the wash on this thread.
Posted by: flenser at December 09, 2009 05:30 PM (0zOUj)
Posted by: ace at December 09, 2009 05:30 PM (jlvw3)
Posted by: Bill D. Cat at December 09, 2009 05:31 PM (vKdhq)
No it's just liberal use (hehe) of the ridicule weapon. The first and only tool in the tool box for dealing with opposition. Like the adage goes, when all you've got is a hammer all your problems look like nails.
Posted by: MikeTheMoose at December 09, 2009 05:31 PM (FXhEv)
Posted by: Intrepid at December 09, 2009 09:22 PM (92zkk)
There's a few 50 miles out of Nashville. Murfreesboro? Ft. Campbell? Oak Grove? I don't know so much about Tennessee geography, so I don't know if that qualifies as rural mid-Tennessee.
What used to be weird and exotic is becoming ubiquitous. A couple of years back I drove through Wilkesboro, North Carolina, to see the setting of the legend of Tom Dooley. Not much in the way of rural authenticity left -- more strip malls and big-box stores.
Posted by: stuiec at December 09, 2009 05:31 PM (Ate22)
Posted by: ace at December 09, 2009 05:31 PM (jlvw3)
you screamers tend to be a whole lot more emotional than you're willing to admit.
You could drown in the irony.
Posted by: flenser at December 09, 2009 05:32 PM (0zOUj)
Posted by: Miss'80sBaby at December 09, 2009 05:32 PM (zmiSr)
Posted by: Z Ryan at December 09, 2009 09:26 PM (cMo6P)
ZR. We established last night that it the ONT is not a clique, however, that is a deal breaker. You must like shoes; or at the very least allow us to talk shop, ie shoes.
Posted by: laceyunderalls at December 09, 2009 05:32 PM (ViI4o)
"Tweaking through the snow
Chasing a freezing Hobo..
Oh what fun it is to be totally out of your gord!"
Ohhhh so that's how the song goes. I always wondered.
Hobo kills, hobo kills, hobo kills all the way!
Everybody now...
Posted by: hutch1200 at December 09, 2009 05:32 PM (hfMOd)
Do I think I owe a Jew the "special treatment" of not calling him a kike?
Why did you rewrite the question?
You said that he deserved special treatment for being a Jew.
Posted by: flenser at December 09, 2009 05:33 PM (0zOUj)
Posted by: CoolCzech at December 09, 2009 05:34 PM (QECjC)
Oh, I know you say it wouldn't bother you. But you screamers tend to be a whole lot more emotional than you're willing to admit."
Yes, you know I'm arguing in bad faith. Just like all those leftists who assume Conservatives are always doing the same.
Yet you apparently still haven't figured out the difference (or prefer to erect strawmen) between a word and a sentiment.
Here, maybe this guy can help you figure it out:
"The notion that only white people can make racial slurs because only white people have the rhetorical arsenal to do so is absurd."
Posted by: A Screaming Kike (Yes, an actual one) at December 09, 2009 05:34 PM (op9m5)
Posted by: Frank Perdue at December 09, 2009 09:24 PM (+FzLa)
Aaaah, fuck 'em if they can't take a joke.
Posted by: stuiec at December 09, 2009 05:34 PM (Ate22)
Posted by: Bill D. Cat at December 09, 2009 05:34 PM (vKdhq)
957 Ace,
so when I lived in El Paso Texas and was running a string of guys on the ramp at EPIA was I worthy of "extra protection" because I sure didn't get it despite being one of three Anglo employees out of 30 guys.....
Diablo Blanco was what they called me because I had just come from the Dayton hub and had a slightly higher sense of urgency than they were used to.....
Posted by: sven10077 at December 09, 2009 05:34 PM (dCpk3)
steevy has a good idea
but instead of quotas, can we racists buy insult credits to offset our bigotry?
If it'll save the planet, surely it will spare some feelings.
Posted by: yeah, it's me at December 09, 2009 05:35 PM (Uf4aV)
Posted by: redrock at December 09, 2009 05:36 PM (VSWPU)
That's a load of BS. Go into a predominantly black region and insult the people there with a black insult and see if they're not offended because they're in the majority. Try it with Hispanics, and gays, and whatever other group you think is so defenseless. Numbers have nothing to do with it. It's because people have been taught that it's that it's more offensive than other insults.
Posted by: JohnJ at December 09, 2009 05:36 PM (QhemS)
Posted by: Z Ryan at December 09, 2009 05:36 PM (cMo6P)
Didn't this all start with you trying to make the point that if one uses a slur please take a second and make sure the post is truly humorous and not just offensive for offensives sake, before hitting the post button.
Posted by: Jason at December 09, 2009 05:36 PM (PNqW6)
Posted by: Z Ryan
i think in the spring i'm going to start barefoot running (not like i don't get called a hippie enough for running) i hate that i have over $500 of shoes in my current rotation.
Posted by: evil libertarian at December 09, 2009 05:36 PM (KxYmA)
Posted by: AmishDude at December 09, 2009 09:16 PM (ItSLQ)
Mess with us and you'll get it in the end.
I'm going to AoSHQ Hell now aren't I?
Posted by: Blue Hen at December 09, 2009 05:36 PM (1O93r)
973,
in honor of my inherent innate and unfair racist advantages, I'd like to donate one half of my Unicorn bucks Barry sent me to end racism by gifting the N bomb the new meaning of "outnumbered in their own nation by 2050 honkies" as CNN says I must feel....
Posted by: sven10077 at December 09, 2009 05:36 PM (dCpk3)
Posted by: vai2112 at December 09, 2009 05:37 PM (pkOAj)
The effectiveness of a slur, it's ability to harm, is largely in its ability to call out differences.
Yeah, yeah. So what's this all about? You want to come out as gay? I don't care.
You're coming out as a lefty, that I care about.
Posted by: flenser at December 09, 2009 05:37 PM (0zOUj)
Stealing words of wisdom from laptop-battery now?
Posted by: kbdabear at December 09, 2009 05:37 PM (sYxEE)
Same. (I scream.)
Posted by: A Screaming Kike (Yes, an actual one) at December 09, 2009 05:38 PM (op9m5)
975,
and that's how I blew it off...
I did pick on the dumbest of the bunch and call him El Tigre my little speedy tiger(he was a sloth) but yeah....
I also bought the guys Chico's Tacos(is that racist? if so tell chico he founded the place back in '43 IIRC)when they did a good job and we were waiting on a charter...
life's too short to be eternally pissed off and a healthy mind is goals oriented enough to move on.
Posted by: sven10077 at December 09, 2009 05:39 PM (dCpk3)
Posted by: redrock at December 09, 2009 05:39 PM (VSWPU)
Meanwhile it's f*ckin' freezin here in TX. Global Warming my @ss Algore!!!! BRRRRR
I'm freezing my bawlz off in Sugarland. It's great.
Posted by: Dang Straights at December 09, 2009 05:39 PM (bOV32)
Posted by: vai2112 at December 09, 2009 05:39 PM (pkOAj)
Posted by: NJconservative at December 09, 2009 05:40 PM (/Ywwg)
Posted by: Jek Porkins (rdb) at December 09, 2009 05:40 PM (MNZJ8)
Posted by: Jane D'oh! at December 09, 2009 05:40 PM (UOM48)
(*) In the interest of full disclosure and honesty, I'm not really using a laptop right now, that was a lame attempt at funny.
Posted by: Purple Avenger at December 09, 2009 05:40 PM (cujP6)
Posted by: Z Ryan at December 09, 2009 05:41 PM (cMo6P)
Posted by: Z Ryan at December 09, 2009 09:36 PM (cMo6P)
Watchu talkin' 'bout, Willis? My special interest in shoes stems from my double X chromosome.
Posted by: laceyunderalls at December 09, 2009 05:41 PM (ViI4o)
Posted by: Jewlanda Sanchestein at December 09, 2009 05:41 PM (Vz1WE)
Posted by: ace at December 09, 2009 05:42 PM (jlvw3)
Posted by: Miss'80sBaby at December 09, 2009 05:42 PM (zmiSr)
Posted by: Hedgehog at December 09, 2009 05:42 PM (oQIfB)
Posted by: vai2112 at December 09, 2009 05:42 PM (pkOAj)
Posted by: ace at December 09, 2009 05:42 PM (jlvw3)
Posted by: wherestherum at December 09, 2009 05:43 PM (gofDd)
Posted by: JCELEPHANT at December 09, 2009 05:43 PM (XuYn0)
The milenium is neigh.
Hey, go back to doing what you do with the chickens and leave us out of it.
Posted by: Horses Union at December 09, 2009 05:43 PM (Be4xl)
So your giving him a pass because he's black?
Posted by: Rickshaw Jack at December 09, 2009 05:43 PM (nE6Eu)
Posted by: MikeTheMoose at December 09, 2009 05:43 PM (FXhEv)
Posted by: MikeTheMoose at December 09, 2009 05:43 PM (FXhEv)
Posted by: wherestherum at December 09, 2009 05:44 PM (gofDd)
Posted by: katya at December 09, 2009 05:44 PM (brVeg)
Posted by: kbdabear at December 09, 2009 05:44 PM (sYxEE)
I have often wondered what life would be like if this planet was inhabited by one race with one religion and one language. Humans being what they are would be forced to base their prejudices on . . . what? Eye color? Handedness? Overbite?
I heard a very disturbing story that people who live in Franklin, Tennessee are not allowed to be buried in Columbia.
Posted by: Pelayo at December 09, 2009 05:44 PM (8NGHm)
HAHA HAHAHA HAHAHAHA HAHAHAI'MGO INGTOBURNYOU RHOUSEDOWN HAHAHAHAH AHAHAHA HAHAHAHA
Posted by: Z Ryan at December 09, 2009 05:44 PM (cMo6P)
Don't forget it, filthy sinner.
Posted by: Archangel Michael and his cherubic choir at December 09, 2009 05:44 PM (ItSLQ)
Posted by: A Screaming Kike (Yes, an actual one) at December 09, 2009 05:44 PM (op9m5)
hahaha it took over a thousand posts for Ace to make the inevitable-ace-star-trek reference.
We all knew it was coming. Just never sure when.
Posted by: xwing fighterplover at December 09, 2009 05:44 PM (UUkhk)
I also had someone else suggest -- seriously -- that some slurs are more effective "because we have the better arguments."
No. That was not my point. I was pointing out that you sometimes frame your points in a sloppy way that weakens your argument. In plain language, don't attempt to talk about serious shit when you've been self medicating.
Posted by: Flying Monkey at December 09, 2009 05:45 PM (Oxen1)
Posted by: nickless at December 09, 2009 05:45 PM (MMC8r)
Posted by: CoolCzech at December 09, 2009 05:45 PM (QECjC)
Heh. Okay, I'm going to step back from the abyss before I get banned in a fit of even-headedness.
Posted by: A Screaming Kike (Yes, an actual one) at December 09, 2009 05:45 PM (op9m5)
Ace
I think you have two options here:\
1) ignore the select few posters that you feel go over the top, or
2) ban them.
You can't convince people to be other than what they are. This tormented stuff ain't good.
Posted by: biff at December 09, 2009 05:45 PM (e5e2r)
1016 Ace,
sorry I was busy listening to you explain our hidden motives in thinking that identity politics and grievance mongering are the sux...
You never did answer when I asked, "while in El Paso and a minority did I deserve magic words and protection?"
Posted by: sven10077 at December 09, 2009 05:46 PM (dCpk3)
Or just that unoriginal.
Posted by: MikeTheMoose at December 09, 2009 09:43 PM (FXhEv)
You will be assimilated, except the filthy scandis. Even we have standards.
Posted by: The Borg at December 09, 2009 05:46 PM (ItSLQ)
Posted by: scottythrust at December 09, 2009 05:46 PM (oBJkk)
It's partially your fault, consort of Hades. BTW, why does Hades have all those spikes and that metal helmet?
Posted by: Kratos (on the back of Gaia, scaling Mt Olympus) at December 09, 2009 05:46 PM (otlXg)
Posted by: ace at December 09, 2009 05:46 PM (jlvw3)
Remember when Spok was on that planet acting strangely, laughing, and refused KIRK's orders and then punched out KIRK and then ass-raped SULU and CHEKOV under the tree?
Posted by: xwing fighterplover at December 09, 2009 05:46 PM (UUkhk)
Posted by: Miss'80sBaby at December 09, 2009 05:47 PM (zmiSr)
The milenium is neigh.
Hey, go back to doing what you do with the chickens and leave us out of it.
Posted by: Horses UnionIt's because I'm a chicken, isn't it? Or is it the color of my feathers that threatens you?
I should apologize for the fowl spelling in my earlier post.
Posted by: Blue Hen at December 09, 2009 05:47 PM (1O93r)
Posted by: ace at December 09, 2009 05:47 PM (jlvw3)
Posted by: JCELEPHANT at December 09, 2009 09:43 PM (XuYn0) << My sentiments exactly.
Posted by: gm at December 09, 2009 05:47 PM (ELiBu)
I bow to your hit-whoring proficiency and stand in awe of your powers
Posted by: Allahpunter at December 09, 2009 05:48 PM (sYxEE)
Posted by: redrock at December 09, 2009 05:48 PM (VSWPU)
However, that email contact should come from a co-blogger or designated catamite of good taste- and if unresolved or disputed elevated to your level (to be handled either like Solomon or Vlad Tepes)
Posted by: Jean at December 09, 2009 05:48 PM (xCBQ4)
Nonsense, we are Perfect Beings of principle and integrity, and we have no idea what you are talking about with this "dominant group" stuff or "stigmatizing" stuff. and much much more in the same vein.
Ace, we're all grownups here. We've all heard the lefty horsepucky you are serving up a million times before. And a big part of what makes us "conservatives" as opposed to "liberals" is that we think the whole thing is a bad joke.
And I know that you knew this before I told you just now.
Posted by: flenser at December 09, 2009 05:48 PM (0zOUj)
Posted by: Bill D. Cat at December 09, 2009 05:48 PM (vKdhq)
I try to make a point about how HUMANS -- not conservatives, not liberals -- act, a point about our common humanity and our common faults and the way we behave in groups and set about rules to identify "insiders" and "outsiders," and I keep being told by you guys:
Nonsense, we are Perfect Beings of principle and integrity, and we have no idea what you are talking about with this "dominant group" stuff or "stigmatizing" stuff. We are incapable of such things. We never did stuff like that, not in seventh grade, not in ninth grade, NEVER. We have no idea of what you mean, Ace. We are Perfect Beings of Love for Truth and Our Fellow Man.
I can't speak for anyone else, but my point is that everyone does that. And the solution isn't to create special rules for certain people but to promote awareness because most people will try to do the right thing when they've been made aware of an unfairness. I'm not saying that I'm perfect; I'm saying that we're all imperfect. All of us. Even the minorities.
Creating special rules for certain people just makes the problem worse.
Posted by: JohnJ at December 09, 2009 05:48 PM (QhemS)
Posted by: Kensington at December 09, 2009 05:48 PM (BlBnA)
I think the hatred behind racial slurs intended to insult and degrade is far more dangerous and deadly than any particular reference or term. When libs and dems for instance refer to Clarence Thomas as an "Uncle Tom" they mean it as ferociously as any klansman ranting about "spooks" and "jigs" but they get a pass because people would rather focus on certain forbidden words as a kind of anti-shibboleth than deal with the underlying animus.
Posted by: carl at December 09, 2009 05:48 PM (BZZ7R)
Posted by: bearded BumperStickerist at December 09, 2009 05:49 PM (ruzrP)
Posted by: ace at December 09, 2009 05:49 PM (jlvw3)
Posted by: Kensington at December 09, 2009 05:50 PM (BlBnA)
She would tell Ace he is benefiting from the patriarchy, and that is why he can not be made to feel an outsider. He is also benefiting from white privilege. Feminist and racial theory in a nutshell.
This is what is making some dissonance here. Ace is agreeing with that philosophy, but using different terms.
Posted by: Ace's Last Ex at December 09, 2009 05:50 PM (0aQsc)
Posted by: evil libertarian at December 09, 2009 05:51 PM (KxYmA)
Tell me more about how humanity looks from yon golden perches.
Most of you look pretty good. That Ace character, we're going to have to work on him some more.
Posted by: Perfect Being of Angelic Light at December 09, 2009 05:51 PM (0zOUj)
Yes.
Blazing Saddles still makes me cry
Posted by: Shannow at December 09, 2009 05:51 PM (LJcef)
I'm low-level, so I'm not allowed to reveal our secrets. Try asking Screwtape.
Posted by: Miss'80sBaby at December 09, 2009 05:51 PM (zmiSr)
....Right? Guys?
Posted by: The Dean at December 09, 2009 05:51 PM (muhdt)
ahhh jeez, another thread that's gonna end in tears
doesn't have to be this way, you know. Lighten up, mix in the funny with your points. We're not solving brain science, here.
Posted by: xwing fighterplover at December 09, 2009 05:52 PM (UUkhk)
I love this. It's a classic bait-and-switch. So they spent all this time trying to get one bill, arguing, compromising, getting amendments. They get it through the House and then completely change everything about it (at least superficially) and say, "well how about this one?"
Posted by: AmishDude at December 09, 2009 09:08 PM (ItSLQ)
There's one last gasp at showing these eejits we don't want what they're selling. It's the Code Red rally against the Final Solution at the Capitol on Tuesday, 12/15 at 1 p.m.. They're hoping this is the biggest turnout yet to show the critters we haven't mellowed out about this shiite. And yet another chance for the Morons to see the lovely Michelle Bachmann.
Posted by: RushBabe at December 09, 2009 05:53 PM (LKkE8)
Amanda Marcotte could straighten this mess out right away.
She would tell Ace he is benefiting from the patriarchy, and that is why he can not be made to feel an outsider. He is also benefiting from white privilege. Feminist and racial theory in a nutshell.
That's pretty much exactly what Ace has being saying. Read the thread.
Posted by: Perfect Being of Angelic Light at December 09, 2009 05:53 PM (0zOUj)
1060,
because George Allen was white....unless he was a dirty Joo* and thus can't be trusted not to be an openly sevret bigot....but "typical white woman" was just Barry keepin' it real....
*when I use 'Joo' it is to mock anti-semites not be one.
Posted by: sven10077 at December 09, 2009 05:53 PM (dCpk3)
Posted by: Bill D. Cat at December 09, 2009 05:53 PM (vKdhq)
So, when people use the term 'diversity', what exactly are they wanting?
Posted by: GW McLintock at December 09, 2009 05:53 PM (zFh1t)
I agree with everything you've written here.
However, I'd say that as far as insults are concerned, "white-boy" can actually score a telling blow. At least that's the way it seems to me.
Posted by: Olaf at December 09, 2009 05:53 PM (anyWD)
...I'm still gonna recommend that Tiger Woods be cast as Sheriff Bart in the Broadway production of "Blazing Saddles".
...
("Hey, where are all the white women at?)
Posted by: g at December 09, 2009 05:53 PM (Mr0Uo)
Posted by: ace at December 09, 2009 09:49 PM (jlvw3)
Keep that analogy going and I'll throw you a couple free tickets at the New York premier of Avatar.
Branding and hit-whoring my friend. Oh, and I could use a towel boy if Eli Manning already has one
Posted by: James Cameron at December 09, 2009 05:54 PM (sYxEE)
We're all only "situationally", temporarily in the majority. Some of us are in the minority because of our hair color. Some of us are in the minority because we're uglier than everyone else (that's me). The moment I go to China, I'm in the minority (racially speaking, gender-ly speaking I'm still in the majority).
Creating special rules for certain people makes the problem worse.
If you're going to ban stuff, ban it because everyone finds it offensive. I highly doubt you're interested in banning munchkin or leprechaun jokes. Short people are always fair game for jeers. And most of them aren't offended by it, thank goodness. But that's probably because they learned that taking offense to it was a rather silly thing to do. They weren't taught that it was the greatest insult ever in the history of the world.
Posted by: JohnJ at December 09, 2009 05:55 PM (QhemS)
Posted by: Preznit Bama at December 09, 2009 05:55 PM (GfYt/)
Posted by: ace at December 09, 2009 05:56 PM (jlvw3)
It's because I'm a chicken, isn't it? Or is it the color of my feathers that threatens you?
No, no, we're good. I mean, it's not like you're blue blue.
Posted by: Horses Union at December 09, 2009 05:56 PM (Be4xl)
Posted by: blankminde at December 09, 2009 05:57 PM (yh1Zp)
Posted by: wherestherum at December 09, 2009 09:19 PM (gofDd)
Promoted from "hot chick" to "hot Asian chick."
And yeah, if it makes me racist to elevate you solely on the basis of your race, tie me to the wall and whip me.
Posted by: stuiec at December 09, 2009 05:57 PM (Ate22)
Once you declare something is off-limits, you will soon declare more things to be off-limits, until you become a blubbering over-sensitive vagina.
Posted by: The Real Me at December 09, 2009 05:57 PM (muhdt)
One of the better ones.
The episode (to me at least) showed just how dishonest the debate on race is when you start out of the gate with one group being more special than the other.
Posted by: Rickshaw Jack at December 09, 2009 05:57 PM (nE6Eu)
It's because I'm a chicken, isn't it? Or is it the color of my feathers that threatens you?
No, no, we're good. I mean, it's not like you're blue blue.
Posted by: Horses UnionIs that double 'blue' some sort of gay smear!?!
Posted by: Blue Hen at December 09, 2009 05:59 PM (1O93r)
Posted by: Aewl at December 09, 2009 05:59 PM (zu5rR)
Posted by: ace at December 09, 2009 05:59 PM (jlvw3)
You can't be mocked for being White? Not even at the Source Awards?
Now forgive me, I must go back to spreading mayonnaise on this Bing Crosby record.
Posted by: The Real Me at December 09, 2009 06:00 PM (muhdt)
Posted by: sven10077 at December 09, 2009 09:53 PM (dCpk3)
I was "offended" at the implication that being, and raising, a commie nutjob was "typical white". There was very little typically white about The Precedent's granny - except that she was racist scum, of course.
Posted by: progressoverpeace at December 09, 2009 06:00 PM (A46hP)
Just checking; this is probably not a good time to insert a Louie Armstrong joke, right?
Posted by: Blue Hen at December 09, 2009 06:01 PM (1O93r)
Posted by: Preznit Bama at December 09, 2009 06:01 PM (GfYt/)
Posted by: redrock at December 09, 2009 06:02 PM (VSWPU)
Which archangel is he?
Posted by: Miss'80sBaby at December 09, 2009 06:02 PM (zmiSr)
I think a lot of people are groping for a scientific standard (science-science), and there isn't one. I think early in last night's thread I read Ace detailing something of a standard: If it's not clearly funny, it's not. (Including "funny to others.") I think that's it. Anyway. Prolly the most useful. Ace does a lot of excellent "pushback humor." That necessarily involves non-pc references. Problem is, many don't quite get the joke, and embark upon what they think is super-cool mimickery of Ace. Sometimes, it falls flat, and, necessarily, it comes out wrong. Makes people uncomfortable. So Ace's complaint is less about regulation of speech than it is regulation of hecklers. You (our figurative heckler) might be having fun, but others want to have fun too. He's asking peole to look outside their own interst and to consider the feelings of others. Keep in mind, that pushback-humor line that Ace can dance around so easily is a very fine one, and it's a nuclear tripwire for most. If you have any doubt whether you know what you're doing, you don't. I'm not excluding myself either. I dance too close on occasion. Like last night when that tranny hooker started brushing past my nipples.
Posted by: Jek Porkins (rdb) at December 09, 2009 06:03 PM (MNZJ8)
Posted by: Preznit Bama at December 09, 2009 06:04 PM (GfYt/)
Posted by: The Shark at December 09, 2009 06:05 PM (sYxEE)
there is a special unfairness in the sense that you and I can slur blacks in a way they can't really slur us.
We overwhelm them with numbers, man. It's like 6:1
yeah, you've got the whole liberal guilt-trip thing with being white down pat. I know, let's open the boders to lots of non-white immigration! It's the least we can do for the poor, poor, poor black people.
If I was black, I think I'd find your pity the offensive thing around here.
Posted by: flenser at December 09, 2009 06:05 PM (0zOUj)
John, there is a special unfairness in the sense that you and I can slur blacks in a way they can't really slur us.
We overwhelm them with numbers, man. It's like 6:1.
Yes, the people with the "6" have to be a little more careful about it than the people with the "1."
What about all the other ways people can be divided up into groups? Gingers Redheads are in the minority. Why aren't we worried about protecting them? What about midgets? What about people with green eyes? You can divide people up in all kinds of ways to find new things to insult them with. Just because people are in a minority through a particular division does not entitle them to special privileges. The hateful intention behind a slur is just as bad coming from a minority as it is anyone else.
Posted by: JohnJ at December 09, 2009 06:05 PM (QhemS)
Is that double 'blue' some sort of gay smear!?!
Geez, don't lay an egg. I didn't mean anything by it.
Uh wait, let me take that back...
Posted by: Horses Union at December 09, 2009 06:05 PM (Be4xl)
Posted by: ace at December 09, 2009 09:42 PM (jlvw3)
Ace, it would help if you bothered to read past the first paragraph of the comment 923 - I was agreeing with you (and at the risk of being labeled a pansy-ass Berkeley liberal).
Posted by: stuiec at December 09, 2009 06:05 PM (Ate22)
Ace: "I'd appreciate if some of you guys would watch the insults on my site".
Commenters: "Fuck off, you liberal. I'm not offended, why should you, or potential sponsers be?!"
I'm probably guilty of being over the line a few times, but jesus, people. Some of you guys are literally telling Ace to fuck off in his own house, because he asked you to wipe off your feet.
Posted by: The Drizzle at December 09, 2009 06:05 PM (5M2Wr)
Posted by: ace at December 09, 2009 06:06 PM (jlvw3)
I know I wouldn't mind some diversity training.
Posted by: Preznit Bama at December 09, 2009 06:06 PM (GfYt/)
Fuck you and the horse you rode in on. I wipe my feet for no man, woman or beast. And you're a terrible superhero, by the by.
Posted by: Civility IS Dead at December 09, 2009 06:08 PM (muhdt)
Posted by: Ho Che Mama at December 09, 2009 06:08 PM (DrB2V)
Is that double 'blue' some sort of gay smear!?!
Geez, don't lay an egg. I didn't mean anything by it.
Uh wait, let me take that back...
Posted by: Horses UnionIt's too late. You can apologize until you're hoarse but.... oh crap.
Posted by: Blue Hen at December 09, 2009 06:08 PM (1O93r)
"I can't comment; I'm still reading Ace's diatribe."
Don't forget to take a break every couple of hours and stretch your legs.
Posted by: Kensington at December 09, 2009 06:09 PM (BlBnA)
Posted by: Preznit Bama at December 09, 2009 06:10 PM (GfYt/)
Posted by: ace at December 09, 2009 06:11 PM (jlvw3)
But that ends, of course, the moment I leave the chatroom.
So, given that Ace doesn't ever leave said chatroom...
he's both an outsider and an insider and therefore the cat never lands butter side down and we may have finally created a cold fusion machine.
Yes, I said cold fusion instead of perpetual motion on purpose. Do I look like a moron??
Posted by: Mama AJ at December 09, 2009 06:11 PM (Be4xl)
Ace came to raise the dead. He did not come to teach the teachable; He did not come to improve the improvable; He did not come to reform the reformable. None of those things works.
Posted by: sickinmass at December 09, 2009 06:11 PM (Dxfei)
Posted by: Peggy Noonan at December 09, 2009 06:12 PM (UOM48)
Posted by: redrock at December 09, 2009 06:13 PM (VSWPU)
Posted by: Jek Porkins (rdb) at December 09, 2009 06:13 PM (MNZJ8)
In the spirit of this thread, I would like to honestly express my opinion, in a straight-up, non-joking way, that flenser is kind of a dick.
Also, from post #454:
Ace: I have told flenser that there is no put-down for straights that's the equivalent of "fag."
flenser: And your statement is your opinion, and an odd and minority one at that.
I would take issue, serious issue, with the assertion that Ace's statement represents a minority view.
Flenser, if you think the majority is with you, well, I think you're wrong.
I invite other posters to share their take on this. Please.
Posted by: Lewis at December 09, 2009 06:13 PM (23X4s)
It's too late. You can apologize until you're hoarse but.... oh crap.
Damn, would you just stop flapping your wings about this...
Posted by: Horses Union at December 09, 2009 06:13 PM (Be4xl)
Posted by: ace at December 09, 2009 06:14 PM (jlvw3)
Don't forget to take a break every couple of hours and stretch your legs. Posted by: Kensington at December 09, 2009 10:09 PM (BlBnA)
Ha, by the time I finished it my ass went flat.
Posted by: Old Hippie Vet at December 09, 2009 06:14 PM (3IZGh)
I can't be stigmatized for being white, straight, and male.
You must live in a really sheltered world if you think that's the case.
It's not really possible. For other reasons, sure: Because I'm a "rightwing hater." Because, according to some, I'm a "RINO sellout."
A RINO sellout? Dude, you passed "RINO sellout" on this thread and were promoted to "Amanda Marcotte Wannabe with Andrew Sullivan clusters". I have not seen this sort of lefty drivel even at the saner lefty blogs I frequent. You'd have to swing hard right to get back to "moderate Democrat" status.
All you have to do now is start arging that "tax cut" and "cut welfare" are racist terms. It's not a big leap from your current angst at the plight of blacks. Or is it gays?
Posted by: flenser at December 09, 2009 06:15 PM (0zOUj)
Black men are men, therefore they have traits that clearly mark them as part of the dominant group and so cannot be made to feel like an "outsider".
Posted by: JohnJ at December 09, 2009 06:15 PM (QhemS)
Posted by: Preznit Bama at December 09, 2009 06:16 PM (GfYt/)
Some jokes on this site fly right over my head so I wouldn't know to be offended. But I do take issue with this:
I forget which thread it was, but I think either Warden or AndrewR commented on a particularly great riffing thread, "That thread was better than sex."
A good back scratch is better than sex, the only thing is that the person scratching your back does not agree.
Posted by: Decaf at December 09, 2009 06:16 PM (BoFBr)
Posted by: Mama AJ at December 09, 2009 06:16 PM (Be4xl)
Posted by: redrock at December 09, 2009 06:17 PM (VSWPU)
Shine on O Perfect Beings of Angelic Light!
I am ready to receive your wisdom.
Tell me more about how humanity looks from yon golden perches."
I asked a serious question back several hundred posts ago to black AoS Morons about how they felt/what they thought about Jeremiah Wright's spew, but never got an answer.
I also shared my rural upbringing and wondered if rural upbringings had an influence, but it wasn't addressed.
I do not ever mutter the "N" word, and I do not denigrate gays. However, I do believe that there is a social restriction now that places PC on top.
And now you're calling me a (derisive) "angelic being of light"?
Posted by: Intrepid at December 09, 2009 06:17 PM (92zkk)
Ace: I have told flenser that there is no put-down for straights that's the equivalent of "fag."
flenser: And your statement is your opinion, and an odd and minority one at that.
Let me demonstrate.
Person1
Your a filthy boob sucking skirt chasing vagina lover.
Straight male.
Hey I shower!
Posted by: MikeTheMoose at December 09, 2009 06:17 PM (FXhEv)
Posted by: Bill D. Cat at December 09, 2009 06:18 PM (vKdhq)
cherry picking.
taking batting practice.
Violating your first rule of blogging.
It's ... beneath ... you.
Posted by: BumperStickerist at December 09, 2009 06:19 PM (ruzrP)
Bingo!
Posted by: carl at December 09, 2009 06:19 PM (BZZ7R)
Posted by: Libtard California Voters at December 09, 2009 10:07 PM (vEclT)
Actually, we see the "race offset credits" or "gender offset credits" from white liberals, especially on MSNBC and Daily Kos.
You see, because they registered Democrat and tell the world they love black people, well heeled white folks can become the arbiters of what constitutes racism. It's not racism if they fling vile insults about Michelle Malkin, Condi Rice, or Clarence Thomas. It's all good you know because they vote Democrat and therefore have their racism offset credits.
Kind of explains how a middle aged white straight male douchebag who lives on the well off South Bay area of LA can appoint himself the supreme judge of what is or is not racism.
Posted by: kbdabear at December 09, 2009 06:20 PM (sYxEE)
Posted by: Preznit Bama at December 09, 2009 06:20 PM (GfYt/)
I see staying off the internets and working like a dog has made me miss a whole lotta shit. That said, the only time Ace has ever hurt my feelings is when he didnt follow me on Twitter. I am slowly recovering my dignity thru therapy.
Posted by: di butler at December 09, 2009 06:20 PM (S3xX1)
Ace, you keep talking about whites as if they are a majority in the world. Whites are very much of a minority in the world, and long have been. Whites are a dwindling majority in the West, but that's it. In the world as a whole, whites represent a speck.
Majority has nothing to do with anything.
Posted by: progressoverpeace at December 09, 2009 06:20 PM (A46hP)
Posted by: ace at December 09, 2009 06:21 PM (jlvw3)
In the spirit of this thread, I would like to honestly express my opinion, in a straight-up, non-joking way, that flenser is kind of a dick
And in the spirit of this thread, I'd like to say, help! I'm being insulted! With a crude sexual reference! Oh, the horror! When will Ace put a stop to this? What about my feelings?
I would take issue, serious issue, with the assertion that Ace's statement represents a minority view.
Flenser, if you think the majority is with you, well, I think you're wrong.
I notice that most people commenting here are beating up on Ace, so I don't think you are right. But I value the input from the minority, so thanks for sharing .
Posted by: flenser at December 09, 2009 06:22 PM (0zOUj)
Posted by: MPFS, Holiday Fish Stick at December 09, 2009 06:22 PM (PBGAP)
Posted by: ace at December 09, 2009 06:23 PM (jlvw3)
Posted by: progressoverpeace at December 09, 2009 06:23 PM (A46hP)
Fuck you and the horse you rode in on. I wipe my feet for no man, woman or beast. And you're a terrible superhero, by the by.
Posted by: Civility IS Dead at December 09, 2009 10:08 PM (muhdt)
Your mom sees it differently.
Posted by: The Drizzle at December 09, 2009 06:23 PM (5M2Wr)
What you did say is that insults about a majority characteristic do not possess the same degree of offensiveness as insults about a minority characteristic. This is untrue for reasons which I've already stated. I bet I can go to a foreign country and make fun of their race until a gang of them beat me up. Of course I can. The reason why some minority characteristics are considered more offensive to insult here in America is because everyone has been taught that they are more offensive, not because they are actually more offensive.
Posted by: JohnJ at December 09, 2009 06:24 PM (QhemS)
I can say whatever I want about that Filipina !@#$!$ Michelle Malkin because I cannot be racist, I voted for Obama.
Self absolution, how wonderful it is to be back in the arms of my brethren
Posted by: Cahrsel Jhonsno at December 09, 2009 06:25 PM (sYxEE)
Posted by: JohnJ at December 09, 2009 09:48 PM (QhemS)
Selfishly, I'd like to propose that Jews be exempted from being gassed and cremated. Hell, let's just broaden that to an exemption from genocide in general -- how about that? You can say anything you like about me, if you can guarantee that what you say isn't going to give someone ideas about tossing me, my wife and my kids into a cattle car.
Of course, you don't have to look to the Holocaust for examples of words inciting genocidal acts. It's happened more recently and in many places. And it sort of bothers me when Barack Obama glosses over it -- when he doesn't take Ahmadinejad's threats to wipe out Israel seriously, or when he sends an envoy to Darfur and that envoy talks about using gold stars and cookies to induce the Sudanese government to stop murdering people in Darfur.
Posted by: stuiec at December 09, 2009 06:25 PM (Ate22)
I miss your small, bony dick. Please give me some more of that sweet, awkward white-boy loving that I crave so dearly.
Posted by: Civility IS Dead's Mom at December 09, 2009 06:25 PM (muhdt)
Wait, my mom is a superhero? Sweet! What are her powers?
Posted by: Civility IS Dead at December 09, 2009 10:24 PM (muhdt)
1. Invisible tits
2. Resistance to feminine hygeine.
Posted by: The Drizzle at December 09, 2009 06:26 PM (5M2Wr)
Posted by: runninrebel at December 09, 2009 06:26 PM (i3PJU)
JohnJ at December 09, 2009 10:15 PM (QhemS)
You can't be serious about that, right?
You are aware there has been some, uh, racial unpleasantness in this country's recent and not so recent past, right?
I'm all for a color blind society but we aren't there. Now, I don't think the answer to racism in the past is more racism now (either straight up old fashion or newer PC bullshit) but we don't get to pretend that the experience of whites and blacks in this country is the same.
One of the things I like about conservatives is we deal with the world as it is, not as we want to pretend it is.
If you think the experience of black and white men past or present in this country is the same, you are dealing in a fantasy land.
Race relations in this country take some give and take. I'm willing to give up the idea that calling a black man a racial slur is the same as when it's used against me as a white guy. Not because I'm a PC liberal but because as a conservative (and someone who is not an imbecile) I know that the anti-black slur comes with several hundred years of baggage that being called "whitey" doesn't.
Some may think that's unfair but again, as a conservative, I've long ago accepted that basic truth.
Posted by: DrewM. at December 09, 2009 06:27 PM (FCWQb)
I miss your small, bony dick. Please give me some more of that sweet, awkward white-boy loving that I crave so dearly.
Posted by: Civility IS Dead's Mom at December 09, 2009 10:25 PM (muhdt)
I'm sorry I made you shave your beard and cover your warts.
Posted by: The Drizzle at December 09, 2009 06:28 PM (5M2Wr)
I used to suck on her tits for milky nourishment, I don't remember them being invisible.
Posted by: Civility IS Dead at December 09, 2009 06:28 PM (muhdt)
I forget which thread it was, but I think either Warden or AndrewR commented on a particularly great riffing thread, "That thread was better than sex."
A good back scratch is better than sex, the only thing is that the person scratching your back does not agree.
Posted by: Decaf at December 09, 2009 10:16 PM (BoFBr)
Nothing is better than sex, except salami and eggs, if the salami is sliced thin and the eggs are not too dry.
Posted by: Alan King at December 09, 2009 06:29 PM (Ate22)
It's fine darling, but next time please don't make me wear an Obama mask and call you my 'fierce ivory manbeast.'
Posted by: Civility IS Dead's Mom at December 09, 2009 06:30 PM (muhdt)
Say, why don't you just try to imagine my incandescently-obvious response to that rather than forcing me to type out the fucking moronically obvious.
Will save us both time.
Posted by: ace at December 09, 2009 10:23 PM (jlvw3)
What'd I say? I was just pointing out the natural consequences of the local majority, but not global that I saw upthread. After all, this is the point that is being hammered out, and social and economic justice being sought for, in Copenhagen.
Posted by: progressoverpeace at December 09, 2009 06:30 PM (A46hP)
I used to suck on her tits for milky nourishment, I don't remember them being invisible.
Posted by: Civility IS Dead at December 09, 2009 10:28 PM (muhdt)
That was neither your mom, nor her tits. The milky nourishment, however, wasthe real thing.
Posted by: Andrew Sullivan at December 09, 2009 06:31 PM (5M2Wr)
Posted by: ace at December 09, 2009 06:31 PM (jlvw3)
JohnJ at December 09, 2009 10:15 PM (QhemS)
I know what you're talking about. It's the same reason why Tiger Woods can score so many white ho's.
Posted by: Preznit Bama at December 09, 2009 06:32 PM (GfYt/)
"Ouch that hurt".
Posted by: Guy Fawkes at December 09, 2009 06:32 PM (DIYmd)
I've never had anyone explain to me why Cliff Huxtable's imaginary kids in the imaginary box are more deserving of "extra help" than a poor white kid, asian, hispanic, or Amerind.
I am a meritocrat at heart not a cult of victimhood type.
sven
Back in the eighties when some of my white friends met my parents, they refered to my family as "The Huxtables." It irked me because most of the black families I knew were just like mine, middle class and non-jive talking. Later, however, I chalked it up to the Good Times/Jeffersons syndrome.
Posted by: baldilocks at December 09, 2009 06:32 PM (tAwrV)
So a blue chicken and a thug horse walk into a bar...
What?
Posted by: A DuckWhat's the punchline?
Posted by: Blue Hen at December 09, 2009 06:33 PM (1O93r)
It's fine darling, but next time please don't make me wear an Obama mask and call you my 'fierce ivory manbeast.'
Posted by: Civility IS Dead's Mom at December 09, 2009 10:30 PM (muhdt)
I said "fierce Ivory LOVEbeast. Your legs must've been covering your ears.
Posted by: The Drizzle at December 09, 2009 06:33 PM (5M2Wr)
Posted by: The sand in ace's vagina at December 09, 2009 06:34 PM (muhdt)
Posted by: ace at December 09, 2009 06:36 PM (jlvw3)
You are aware there has been some, uh, racial unpleasantness in this country's recent and not so recent past, right?
I'm all for a color blind society but we aren't there.
I was being sarcastic, of course. I wanted to demonstrate that possessing characteristics that mark someone as part of a "dominant group" is a bad joke. Treating people as individuals is the way forward. Creating special rules for special groups just perpetuates division. It's my belief that the only reason why race is still an issue in this country is because of continued legal distinctions. We don't make such distinctions for other groups, and we don't have as much of a problem being divided into other groups. The reason why people believe that some insults are worse than others is not because they are inherently worse than others but only because they've been taught that they're worse than others.
I'm perfectly fine with recognizing the realities of the present situation. I've told Ace that I support banning the use of certain euphemisms, but not because those euphemisms are inherently more offensive. Only because they are offensive to a significant number of people. That and the fact that conservatives have to make special considerations so as not to appear racist, which is also due to particular present circumstances.
Posted by: JohnJ at December 09, 2009 06:36 PM (QhemS)
I think Flenser is a stupid ignorant know-it-all dick who only knows one thing -- Nothing convinces like repetition of stupid slogans -- and I've kind of wanted to tear this idiot a new one for ages.
I think you have a very exaggerated opinon of your abilites, but if you think you're up to it, tear away.
Which slogans did you have in mind? "Nixon's the One"? I'm afraid I do tend to go overboard with that.
Posted by: flenser at December 09, 2009 06:37 PM (wzWvK)
Posted by: laptop-battery fan at December 09, 2009 06:37 PM (sYxEE)
Posted by: Intrepid at December 09, 2009 06:37 PM (92zkk)
I know what you're talking about. It's the same reason why Tiger Woods can score so many white ho's.
Moby. A weak one at that.
Posted by: Jek Porkins (rdb) at December 09, 2009 06:37 PM (MNZJ8)
Posted by: JS at December 09, 2009 06:38 PM (bMs0C)
Posted by: whatever at December 09, 2009 06:39 PM (XIXhw)
I am echoing Drew's comments.
Ah, now there's a argument from authority we can all bow down to.
Posted by: flenser at December 09, 2009 06:39 PM (wzWvK)
Posted by: Jane D'oh! at December 09, 2009 06:40 PM (UOM48)
Posted by: Intrepid at December 09, 2009 06:41 PM (92zkk)
Posted by: Momma Ace at December 09, 2009 06:42 PM (8zsWd)
Posted by: ace at December 09, 2009 06:42 PM (jlvw3)
Thank you, Ace. Sort of.
Posted by: Jane D'oh! at December 09, 2009 06:43 PM (UOM48)
Posted by: JohnJ at December 09, 2009 06:43 PM (QhemS)
Posted by: Intrepid at December 09, 2009 06:43 PM (92zkk)
Posted by: TexasJew at December 09, 2009 06:43 PM (dcKUM)
Posted by: JohnJ at December 09, 2009 10:24 PM (QhemS)
That was a skit in The Kentucky Fried Movie. The television show about the world's greatest and most fearless daredevil, who puts on his fireproof suit and helmet in preparation for his most amazing and death-defying stunt ever: going into the biker bar and shouting, "Hey! All you pussy bikers suck!"
Except the daredevil was asserting about the bikers something they don't believe about themselves: that they are pussies.
Go to China and say, "You people are all so... Chinese! I mean, you have almond-shaped eyes and speak Chinese and everything!" You won't get beat up until you tell them something about themselves they don't believe: "Your slanted eyes make you all ugly!" They won't believe that about themselves, but they may find you irritating and disrespectful enough that they decide to kick your ass to teach you some manners.
So in a country in which there is actual documented history that white people addressing Black people with the n-word sometimes went beyond words to acts of violence and even murder, there may be something to this "the n-word is special" business. It's not the 400 years of oppression business, it's the red flag that the idiot who's saying the n-word might just be stupid enough to believe that he is superior to the person he's insulting - maybe stupid enough to think he can get away with doing something violent.
Posted by: stuiec at December 09, 2009 06:44 PM (Ate22)
Posted by: Momma Ace at December 09, 2009 06:44 PM (8zsWd)
Please, will someone rid me of these patronizing and self-important gentiles!
<i>"I don't like Affirmative Action because it maintains this stupid fraud of an idea. But fighting against it by saying that it hurts your fellow white people is retarded. It is an affront to individualism, and so is trying to reverse it by claiming grievance against "white" people.</i>
100% on target I think, but most libertarians, of course, don't take individualism that that much of an extreme, particularly at this site, which tends towards the Conservative-Libertarian side of the spectrum. But I know there's plenty of libertarians, like me, who oppose it on the basis of individual discrimination. Doesn't mean though I don't have fun pointing out the hypocrisy of the racialists who define everything in group terms, though.
It's the same thing with blood and soil nationalism. Someone who backs America simply because he is an American is also compromising their individualism. Me, I'm lucky enough to avoid that track because I legitimately believe the U.S. usually acts in the interests of individuals - well, at least more so than any other country in the world.
But were that not to be no longer the case I wouldn't feel much if any residual loyalty.
For what it's worth, I also really don't self-identify as much of a Jew either, as an agnostic who figures that most national bloodlines are crap, being the result of centuries of migration and interbreeding. But I figure in times like these someone (a hero!) has to stand up for those poor average white males who don't have some victim box that allows them to speak about a topic like this without some asshole cramming them into a box.
Posted by: A Screaming Kike (Yes, an actual one) at December 09, 2009 06:44 PM (op9m5)
JohnJ at December 09, 2009 10:36 PM (QhemS)
Lovely thought, disconnected from the real world.
Tribalism is a basic instinct. Legal regimes can give it force but you can't legislate it out of our basic instincts.
The real miracle of this country is how good race relations are. I'd like to see a lot more focus on that but at the same time, wishing the past and present realities away serves no one.
It seems the grown up approach is to acknowledge there are differences and compromise where it does good (though not on core principles). I just don't see being a bit sensitive as a very high price to pay.
Hell, I try to take the feelings of others into account for all sorts of reasons and based on all sorts of characteristics. Using race as one of them in some situations isn't a sellout, just basic decency.
Posted by: DrewM. at December 09, 2009 06:45 PM (FCWQb)
You can of course make him feel as outsider on the basis of his 12% minority race. So stupid. So much stupidity pressed into service to avoid an obviously true point. It is remarkable how dumb people are willing to play in order to "win" some stupid point.
Geez, Ace. I addressed that back on 1166:
What you did say is that insults about a majority characteristic do not possess the same degree of offensiveness as insults about a minority characteristic. This is untrue for reasons which I've already stated. I bet I can go to a foreign country and make fun of their race until a gang of them beat me up. Of course I can. The reason why some minority characteristics are considered more offensive to insult here in America is because everyone has been taught that they are more offensive, not because they are actually more offensive.
Posted by: JohnJ at December 09, 2009 06:45 PM (QhemS)
Posted by: Indian Outlaw at December 09, 2009 06:46 PM (8zsWd)
Posted by: runninrebel at December 09, 2009 06:46 PM (i3PJU)
Skin color is quite clear, and counts for a quite a bit; I know for a fact, for example, that every person with white skin has dated 90% other people with white skin, and the same for black people.
Why is that? I don't know. I don't really feel like getting into a tangent. But race is real and has real-world consequences on the way we live, including on the most important decision most of us will ever make, who to form a family with.
Wow! Thank you for bringing this to our attention, Ace. There's a lot of new and disturbing information you are sharing with us tonight. Much to ponder, certainly.
People tend to marry within their own race! I'd never have thought it was so.
Posted by: flenser at December 09, 2009 06:47 PM (wzWvK)
Posted by: progressoverpeace at December 09, 2009 10:23 PM (A46hP)
The school board in San Francisco ran aground on that very shoal. It had classified Asians as "honorary whites" for the purposes of racial preferences in admissions to the top public "magnet" high schools in the city. Hilarity and lawsuits ensued.
Posted by: stuiec at December 09, 2009 06:48 PM (Ate22)
As I understand all this, it is about us trying to overcome human nature - to become quite un-human, to undo a whole mellinia of human existence. Just think, if about umpteen thousand years ago, humans had embraced diversity and thrown away their prejudices and fears, there might still be Neanderthalls around. And later on, in North America, the Sioux, Crow and Blackfeet would have been friendlier toward one another. Human beings can be really mean without trying very hard.
A joke like this must have been told at some point in history. "A Neathanderthall, a Cro-Magnon. and a Homo-Erectus walk into a bar, er cave . . . "
Posted by: Pelayo at December 09, 2009 06:48 PM (8NGHm)
Posted by: ace at December 09, 2009 06:49 PM (jlvw3)
I got called a honky once by a black girl.
Non-ironically -- she was really out to hurl an insult.
It still gives me a chuckle to this day whenever I think about it.
It's no analgue to the N-word, I'll tell you that.
Posted by: Lewis at December 09, 2009 06:49 PM (23X4s)
According to the bullshit playing field he's using, them's some moral authority points.
Posted by: A Screaming Kike (Yes, an actual one) at December 09, 2009 06:50 PM (op9m5)
Posted by: redrock at December 09, 2009 06:50 PM (VSWPU)
Posted by: steevy at December 09, 2009 06:50 PM (RtNEG)
I have a race-based question for everyone.
If Fred finsihed ahead of Mary, but behind Thomas, and Mark finished ahead of Jeremiah, what place did Mary finish in?
Posted by: The Real Me at December 09, 2009 06:50 PM (muhdt)
I don't think that tribalism can exist without a legal regime. I want to prevent racial tribalism from infesting our legislation. We should be more concerned about that happening that what free individuals do. (I hope we don't have to get into a discussion of the difference between people using force and the government using force)
Posted by: JohnJ at December 09, 2009 06:51 PM (QhemS)
Posted by: wherestherum at December 09, 2009 06:52 PM (gofDd)
Posted by: ace at December 09, 2009 06:52 PM (jlvw3)
I guess I should have elaborated a certain point.
I've seen baldilocks around these parts for years. I like baldilocks. I knew she is a she. And I knew she is not a white she.
I would never write anything to hurt her personally. But you made it sound like I did. And I'm disappointed she took it personally. You both hung me out to swing in the wind.
Posted by: yeah, it's me at December 09, 2009 08:16 PM (Uf4aV)
I guess you're the one who mentioned the flat nose thing. All I said was that I had had no complaint. (I always thought I have the perfect black person's nose: flat, normal size.)
I will admit to being a little insulted, but only a little. People have their preferences. Racist? No. Ungalant, yes. But this is Ace's place.
Posted by: baldilocks at December 09, 2009 06:53 PM (tAwrV)
Posted by: Miss'80sBaby at December 09, 2009 06:54 PM (zmiSr)
Posted by: Intrepid at December 09, 2009 06:54 PM (92zkk)
No.
Actually the point I'm driving at is that because the intent and the animus is the same, and that is what really counts, no racial slur should be elevated as being worse than another. And when you claim that "cracker" and "ofay" and the rest don't count you are kidding yourself.
I actually agree with you that common politeness is reason enough not to use certain words and phrases around strangers because they do not know you and have a more difficult time understanding your intent.
Posted by: carl at December 09, 2009 06:54 PM (BZZ7R)
Some may think that's unfair but again, as a conservative, I've long ago accepted that basic truth.
It's really remarkable the way your "conservative" thoughts always seem to end up with the sorts of conclusions normally attributable to liberals.
Posted by: flenser at December 09, 2009 06:54 PM (wzWvK)
Who the here is lynching anybody, or calling for a lynching? Why are we drawing analogues to 1950s racism when talking about JOKES at a political blog? Jesus Christ, people.
Posted by: The Real Neptune at December 09, 2009 06:54 PM (muhdt)
Posted by: Lewis at December 09, 2009 10:49 PM (23X4s)
Exactly. And why is that? The history of whites and blacks in this country.
Yeah, yeah, no black today has been a slave. Most whites aren't descended from slave owners. Everyone get over it.
Again, lovely thought, not the real world.
It's about the disparity of numbers, power and experience. And it's not an exclusively white/black or American thing. Look at Ireland and their history with the British.
People want to proclaim the world starts...now and everything is equal. It's doesn't and it's not.
Pretending otherwise in order to justify the right to be offensive seems like cheap excuse making.
Posted by: DrewM. at December 09, 2009 06:54 PM (FCWQb)
Posted by: ace at December 09, 2009 06:54 PM (jlvw3)
Posted by: Richard Simmons at December 09, 2009 06:55 PM (VSWPU)
"come on guys cut the jokes and crap..we need to settle this today ..or we get another 100,000 word scolding tomorrow as well."
Stop exaggerating! It was only 4,755 words! For the record that's only ten single spaced pages in Word, and only eighteen times the length of the Gettysburg Address!
My boy Ace is expressing himself, dammit!
Posted by: Kensington at December 09, 2009 06:55 PM (BlBnA)
Posted by: Druid at December 09, 2009 06:55 PM (Gct7d)
Posted by: fluffy, gaming the system at December 09, 2009 06:56 PM (SwkdU)
Here's a question: Was George Carlin's "Indian Sergeant" routine offensive" Would it be banned?
Posted by: Pelayo at December 09, 2009 06:56 PM (8NGHm)
I don't know why this fight is going on. Good grief people, This country is going to hell in a hand basket, and we are fighting over political correctness. White men and women, and especially Christians get made fun of on a daily basis, I say don't worry about what other people think of me, fight for you're country. Sticks and stones!!!
I am worried about America.
Posted by: lou at December 09, 2009 06:56 PM (UbWbu)
JohnJ. at December 09, 2009 10:51 PM (QhemS)
Dude, tribalism predates the earliest notion of legal regimes.
We should be more concerned about that happening that what free individuals do.
Ok. How about people use some of their individual freedom not to needlessly insult people based on race? Is that notion some how a danger to this Utopian society you speak of?
Posted by: DrewM. at December 09, 2009 06:58 PM (FCWQb)
I am guessing many of you claim that 'honky' and 'cracker' and 'ofay' and other slurs have little effectiveness or gravitas because us whiteys have simply never experienced racism on a large, institutionalized scale.
So, why should the N-word have any gravitas for a 16 year old black male raised in a middle-class home in a racially mixed area? Seriously.
Posted by: The Real Neptune at December 09, 2009 06:58 PM (muhdt)
Posted by: ace at December 09, 2009 06:58 PM (jlvw3)
Posted by: lou at December 09, 2009 10:56 PM (UbWbu)
Political correctness is exactly what is killing this country.
Posted by: progressoverpeace at December 09, 2009 06:58 PM (A46hP)
We're talking about why people today find certain words more offensive than other words. The Jewish holocaust that someone brought up is a great example. Why aren't Jews as offended by racial slurs as other people are? They certainly suffered a lot from hate. That's because in this country, for the last several decades, people have been taught that some offensive terms are inherently worse than others. The fact that it's practically unacceptable to not feel bad about being white is another great example.
As I've said time and again, people have always made distinctions between characteristics. There's a saying something like, "Show me three people, and one of them will be an outcast." This is what people do.
Perpetuating a particular characteristic as inherently more special is the wrong reaction.
That's all I'm trying to say.
Posted by: JohnJ at December 09, 2009 06:59 PM (QhemS)
Posted by: ace at December 09, 2009 07:00 PM (jlvw3)
Posted by: ace at December 09, 2009 10:42 PM (jlvw3)
Avast ace, talk like a pirate day was September 19. Yarrrr matey, give these bilge-sucking scurvy dogs what for and ....ah, I got nothing else.
Seriously, though, you've been feisty lately...quit smoking again?
Posted by: SDH at December 09, 2009 07:00 PM (mLQ6y)
JohnJ. at December 09, 2009 10:51 PM (QhemS)
Dude, tribalism predates the earliest notion of legal regimes.
Posted by: DrewM. at December 09, 2009 10:58 PM (FCWQb)
I assume that John was speaking about institutionalized tribalism, and he is correct in that. Freedoms of speech and association allow natural tribalism among free-willed people.
Posted by: progressoverpeace at December 09, 2009 07:01 PM (A46hP)
*rim shot*
Get it?
Because, like, Bill Whittle writes really long pieces all the time, or something...
*crickets*
Fine, screw you guys! I'm just trying to lighten the mood!
Posted by: Kensington at December 09, 2009 07:02 PM (BlBnA)
Did anything of importance happen before 1965? Just asking. Posted by: redrock at December 09, 2009 10:50 PM (VSWPU)
Yep, I was born in 1949.
Next question.
Posted by: Old Hippie Vet at December 09, 2009 07:02 PM (3IZGh)
Posted by: ace at December 09, 2009 07:03 PM (jlvw3)
Posted by: Richard McEnroe at December 09, 2009 07:04 PM (2joUy)
As Ace said, society exists where two people exist. Government exists when one uses force on the other.
Ok. How about people use some of their individual freedom not to needlessly insult people based on race? Is that notion some how a danger to this Utopian society you speak of?
I'm totally supportive of taking personal responsibility to do the right thing instead of using the government to force people to do the right thing. I hope that's shone through in all my comments. I don't try to use insults to prove a point or anything like that.
Posted by: JohnJ at December 09, 2009 07:04 PM (QhemS)
Posted by: The Real Neptune at December 09, 2009 10:58 PM (muhdt)
There have been libraries worth of books written on this. Most are crap but the basic answer is...It's irrelevant why that word carries weight, it just does.
Complaining about the unfairness or stupidity of it, is as meaningless as complaining about the weather.
People have always highlighted their difference (racial, religious, social, whatever) and had words and actions designed to indicate those differences. It's not logical and it's not nice but it is.
So instead of saying "I'm a fighter for equality and color blindness so I will use those words and deeds to show they have no meaning" (even though they do and the person proclaiming their lack of meanin knows exactly the power and meaning of them) just don't use them.
It's not that complicated really.
Posted by: DrewM. at December 09, 2009 07:05 PM (FCWQb)
Hi Jane! (and everyone else here I lurve).
Just been working a whole lot. Got some trade deal going with the Koreans, and Chinese, (as usual), and their time zone being different from ours makes sleeping on a normal schedule not possible. I sleep when everyone else is online. Sucks, but should be settled down soon. How are you?
Posted by: di butler at December 09, 2009 07:06 PM (S3xX1)
>>You think that Jews deserve special treatment for being Jews?
>>> Do I think I owe a Jew the "special treatment" of not calling him a kike?
That's not changing the question flenser, that's refusing to accept the premise. See the little scare quotey thingys?
Posted by: Hugo Chavez at December 09, 2009 07:06 PM (Wh0W+)
Racist jokes are out. How about species-ist jokes?
I mean, anti-ewok jokes are still ok, right?
(effing yub-yubs. Shoulda let the empire fry'em)
Posted by: Travis at December 09, 2009 07:06 PM (XWeIs)
Posted by: Richard McEnroe at December 09, 2009 07:06 PM (2joUy)
Posted by: ace at December 09, 2009 07:06 PM (jlvw3)
Nice try, but I've already got rights for The Odyssey.
Posted by: Homer at December 09, 2009 07:07 PM (gbCNS)
Posted by: The Real Neptune at December 09, 2009 10:58 PM (muhdt)
Ask Ennis Cosby. Seriously.
I think "cracker" and "o-fay" and "honkey" have intense gravitas, if I am on the receiving end... from a group of seven or eight Black people I don't know... on San Pablo Avenue in Oakland, sometime after dusk. If I'm in an environment where I am surrounded by a mostly white population, if the person calling me a cracker is clearly in a minority and not a physical threat to me, I am not going to weight the epithet the same.
So if your putative 16-year-old middle class Black kid is in an environment where he's in a clear minority and someone goes out of his way to call him by the n-word, what should that kid feel? Indifference, or a gut-level fear?
Posted by: stuiec at December 09, 2009 07:08 PM (Ate22)
Was that a crack at me? I feel like that was at my expense.
Posted by: Michael Mann at December 09, 2009 07:08 PM (ItSLQ)
Posted by: Pelayo at December 09, 2009 07:09 PM (8NGHm)
JohnJ...
So, you've never heard of the Anti-Defamation League?
You've never heard someone getting fired or slammed for making anti-Semitic remarks?
Of course Jews are offended.
Posted by: DrewM. at December 09, 2009 07:09 PM (FCWQb)
In other words, it makes no sense, has no logical backing, but do it because I say so.
How enlightened of you. I'll pass, thanks. I don't use the word often, but I really don't give a shit if others do, and I will continue to not give a shit.
Oh, and as a Jew, I've been called a Kike once. And I laughed in the face of the man who used that word. What did he think, I was going to knock him out? I doubt he could even describe where the slur comes from. Can you, Ace? How about you, DrewM? How impotent, this man brought down to the level of using a slur he likely doesn't even understand. Made me feel pity, but no anger.
Posted by: The Real Neptune at December 09, 2009 07:09 PM (muhdt)
Posted by: ace at December 09, 2009 11:03 PM (jlvw3)
I never cared. The first time I got called "kike", I didn't even know what it meant (3rd or 4th grade). When I found out, I still didn't care.
I don't know any Jews who are really offended by Jewish slurs. I do know many who are scared of possibly being rounded up and fried, and look at slurs as the first step in that progression. But, they are usually the stupid ones who don't understand that Jews are only safe because of the existence of Israel (the US used to be a second anchor for Jewish safety, but that has changed radically with the ascension of the lunatic left).
Jews used to care more about anti-Jewish quotas, than anything, though Jews just worked around them. That's how Central Park West got built and how investment banking was developed. CCNY was once a great school, too, and if you follow its evolution then you see the whole situation in a microcosm.
Posted by: progressoverpeace at December 09, 2009 07:10 PM (A46hP)
Listen to him, and he will endeavor to tell you that neither liberals, nor a single demographic that votes liberal, has ever had a point about a single thing in the entire history of history
Yes, I makes that point every single comment I make here, don't I? It's always "liberals and blacks have never done nuthn' good" from me, night after night.
You're sure very protective of liberals all of a sudden.
In the real world Jews don't vote Republican for a variety of reasons, but topping the list is the suspicion Christians hate them, or at least don't respect them. They HATE that
Oh God, Irony Overload!
Sounds like those hate-filled Jews need some moral insruction, and Ace is the supreme moral instructer after all.
Posted by: flenser at December 09, 2009 07:10 PM (wzWvK)
Posted by: A Screaming Kike (Yes, an actual one) at December 09, 2009 07:10 PM (op9m5)
Posted by: ace at December 09, 2009 07:11 PM (jlvw3)
But that's really beside the point. My point was that society does not consider Jewish slurs as offensive as other slurs. When racial slurs are used among white people (unless done by a woman), there's automatically a sense of line-crossing (okay, not always, but sometimes). This doesn't seem to happen with other kinds of slurs. Dude, everybody knows it's bad to insult black people.
And again, that's because at this time our society has taught that this particular characteristic is to be treated special.
Posted by: JohnJ at December 09, 2009 07:11 PM (QhemS)
Posted by: progressoverpeace at December 09, 2009 11:01 PM (A46hP)
Ok but that's not what we've been talking about for two days here. We are talking about private behavior, not government sanctioned speech codes or race sensitive laws.
We've been talking about what is acceptable here on this blog among freely associating individuals.
Posted by: DrewM. at December 09, 2009 07:12 PM (FCWQb)
In your example, you could be called anything by that hostile group, as illustrated above by Ace, and still feel fear/anger/resentment/what have you.
Should my 16 year old black male feel afraid if he is called the n-word by a single white man on the street with no one else around? Should he feel resentment? Or should he shrug it off as a foolish insult from an impotent man?
Posted by: The Real Neptune at December 09, 2009 07:12 PM (muhdt)
I think I understand what that man stuck in the cesspool for 4 hours felt.
It's only been 4 hours?? Feels like more than a day.
Posted by: Mama AJ at December 09, 2009 07:12 PM (Be4xl)
Posted by: baldilocks at December 09, 2009 07:13 PM (tAwrV)
Posted by: awnree at December 09, 2009 07:13 PM (ZNdcE)
Posted by: DrewM. at December 09, 2009 11:09 PM (FCWQb)
The ADL has turned into a pathetic leftist joke. They should be dissolved.
Posted by: progressoverpeace at December 09, 2009 07:13 PM (A46hP)
And I have a feeling that all the people who supposedly "don't care" about offensive words are wondering right now what Jews are saying behind closed doors.
I've been behind Jewish closed doors. As you have, I'm sure.
Posted by: flenser at December 09, 2009 07:13 PM (wzWvK)
That's all I'm trying to say.
Posted by: JohnJ at December 09, 2009 10:59 PM (QhemS)
Here's a clue. The reason Jews don't act offended about being called kikes and yids and heebs and Christ-killers is that we know that acting offended is an invitation to get beaten up or worse. But what we did was to form the B'nai B'rith Anti-Defamation League so that instead of one Jew getting his ass kicked by a bunch of anti-Semites for calling them on their bigotry, an organized group of Jews could take effective action to name and shame the bigots. It works, too.
I mean, in case your point is that all minorities should learn to shut up and keep their heads down, like the good little Jews do.
Posted by: stuiec at December 09, 2009 07:13 PM (Ate22)
Posted by: franticflintstone at December 09, 2009 07:14 PM (VGbp5)
Posted by: Pelayo at December 09, 2009 09:24 PM (8NGHm)
Which proves that Chi is the most racist place in the USA. No wonder you-know-who thrived there.
Posted by: baldilocks at December 09, 2009 07:14 PM (tAwrV)
Nice Strawman, do you have a Tin Man and Lion to go along with it?
Where did I ever say "I should be able to say the n-word whenever I want with no consequences"?
I said "why should my 16 year example give two shits about the n-word any more than some white guy in Decatur called a honkey?"
And I've yet to receive an answer besides 'that's just how it is, your racist POS.'
Nice rhetoric, ace. and co. Good to see that puerile and teleological arguments aren't just for lefties anymore!
Posted by: The Real Neptune at December 09, 2009 07:16 PM (muhdt)
Hurrrr....
So, hey guys, when's the next cross burning happening? Nudge, nudge, wink, wink.
Wow. From last night to tonight, seems to be a pattern. The main post itself is usually on-target and in-focus (if wordy). Then you get itchy in the comments, jump at some troll farts, and your shit gets loose. You start strong, hit all the right notes, then seem to completely deteriorate in the comments. Too bad.
But in the end, there's the immutable law: it's your joint, your rules. I'll go back to lurking (somewhat less) now.
Posted by: Bomba Blue at December 09, 2009 07:16 PM (j1sCI)
Jiminy, there's too much verbosity goin' on around here...and I'm referring to the Comments, not the posts.
Bottom line: this is Ace's site and he doesn't owe anyone an explanation as to how he runs it. He shows more decency in doing so than I would.
Posted by: barbelle at December 09, 2009 07:16 PM (qF8q3)
Heh. I.e., "call me back when you've got substantive."
Posted by: A Screaming Kike (Yes, an actual one) at December 09, 2009 07:17 PM (op9m5)
The reason Jews don't act offended about being called kikes and yids and heebs and Christ-killers is that we know that acting offended is an invitation to get beaten up or worse.
Of course it is. Why just last week some uppity Jew got lynched in Manhattan for taking excepton to the word "cosmopolitan". It's the same old story.
Posted by: flenser at December 09, 2009 07:17 PM (wzWvK)
The ADL has turned into a pathetic leftist joke. They should be dissolved.
Posted by: progressoverpeace at December 09, 2009 11:13 PM (A46hP)
No, the ADL has turned into a pathetic leftist joke and it should be reformed and returned to its original mission of opposing actual bigotry. Foxman is prone to idiocies like chastising the authors of the Rugrats comic strip for using the Grandpa character from the TV show, whom Foxman saw as an anti-Semitic cariacature (far from it - he looked like my grandfather). His latest idiocy, building on earlier foolishness, is to seek racism in the TEA Party movement. The ADL needs to be done with him and his agenda.
Posted by: stuiec at December 09, 2009 07:18 PM (Ate22)
Posted by: lou at December 09, 2009 10:56 PM (UbWbu)
Political correctness is exactly what is killing this country.
Posted by: progressoverpeace at December 09, 2009 10:58 PM (A46hP)
I agree, that is the point I tried to make, but I so agree!! That is why I don't give a flying damn over who likes me or not,I support my conservative-tea party politicians,will go door to door for anyone that wins the R nomination side versus harry reid etc, etc, etc. We have so much to lose if we don't fight against this. I don't want to be the generation that lets America down. No F'n way!!
Posted by: lou at December 09, 2009 07:18 PM (UbWbu)
Posted by: ace at December 09, 2009 07:18 PM (jlvw3)
Because liberals won't have it, it is my firm belief that if this thread should be discussed on every blog in America, race relations would make a huge jump forward.
Posted by: Guy Fawkes at December 09, 2009 07:19 PM (DIYmd)
Posted by: stuiec at December 09, 2009 11:13 PM (Ate22)
Meh. The ADL was never any great power. The media would go to the ADL for a quote every now and again, but other than that, the ADL didn't drive any news that didn't have other interested parties.
Posted by: progressoverpeace at December 09, 2009 07:19 PM (A46hP)
My Sikh friends think you should give it a fucking rest already with the 'my x friends' rhetoric.
Posted by: The Real Neptune at December 09, 2009 07:21 PM (muhdt)
Posted by: ace at December 09, 2009 07:21 PM (jlvw3)
Posted by: Charlie Gibson, and Half of the People Still Arguing With Me at December 09, 2009 07:22 PM (jlvw3)
When the next push for amnesty comes around are you going to shut down all the "Juan McCain" and "Jorge Bush " err, "Enrique Reid" comments or will you let them slide?
Posted by: carl at December 09, 2009 07:22 PM (BZZ7R)
Of course it is. Why just last week some uppity Jew got lynched in Manhattan for taking excepton to the word "cosmopolitan". It's the same old story.
Posted by: flenser at December 09, 2009 11:17 PM (wzWvK)
It's plenty common on the Left for Jews to be called murderers if they express any solidarity with Israel. "Neo-con" is Left-speak (oh, and Pat Buchanan-speak) for "Jew who is a tool of the Israel lobby." And I don't know if it's someone on the Left or the Right or just a typical - dare I say? - redneck teen who periodically graces our synagogue with swastika graffiti.
Where is this post-racial America in which you seem to dwell? Can I move there, or do your real estate deeds restrict sales to Jews?
Posted by: stuiec at December 09, 2009 07:22 PM (Ate22)
yeah, well I have a lot of Jewish friends
Nuh huh! I have more than you do! Yeah, and black and gay friends too! Which makes me just cooler and wiser than you.
Posted by: flenser at December 09, 2009 07:22 PM (wzWvK)
Posted by: ace at December 09, 2009 07:23 PM (jlvw3)
Posted by: The Real Neptune at December 09, 2009 11:12 PM (muhdt)
However he (or others) feels doesn't change the fact that the word n1gger (damn spam blocker) is a loaded word in our society that comes with hundreds of years of baggage including slavery, lynching and second class citizenship.
We like to pretend it can't happen here but it did, for decades. And it didn't end, legally, all that long ago. We are only two generations or so removed from blacks getting beaten up for having the temerity to sit a the 'wrong' lunch counter.
You simply can't ignore all that history and say to people "get over it".
Blacks aren't monolithic, some have moved passed it, others haven't. Either way, I'm not all that interested in throwing that word around or insulting anyone who hasn't gotten beyond it fast enough to suit your taste.
Posted by: Mel Gibson at December 09, 2009 07:23 PM (FCWQb)
Please point me out to a city in America with 'coloreds-only' fountains and restaurants, please, and I don't mean Roscoe's Chicken and Waffles.
My German ancestors didn't exactly have it great in America during WW1, and my Jewish ancestors had some trouble with all those inconvenient 'gentleman's agreements.' Funny how I don't really give a shit if someone calls me a kraut or a kike, eh? Almost like I'm living in 2009 and not 1918.
Posted by: The Real Neptune at December 09, 2009 07:25 PM (muhdt)
Sounds like those hate-filled Jews need some moral insruction, and Ace is the supreme moral instructer after all.
Posted by: flenser at December 09, 2009 11:10 PM (wzWvK)
Look, you can hide behind some sort of right to call anybody whatever you want on some kind of first-amendment-means-that-I-can't-be-criticized kick.
You can say it.
And I can call you an ass.
And I venture to say most of us don't like you for it, flenser. I certainly think the owner of the blog doesn't like you at all.
Since this is the hill you want to die on, since it's so all-fired important for you to rewrite the rules of polite society, then do it elsewhere, where the man who pays for the bandwidth wants you to indulge in it. Does Ron Paul have a blog?
Part of conservatism is respecting property rights -- sometimes your neighbor won't outright say, get off my lawn, but he wants you off his damned lawn -- we don't want legal authorities getting in on everything.
Part of conservatism is also respecting the received wisdom of the polite society. And polite society has rules. And they're arbitrary and they're unfair and they're irrational and they work.
Posted by: AmishDude at December 09, 2009 07:25 PM (ItSLQ)
Posted by: ace at December 09, 2009 07:25 PM (jlvw3)
Posted by: runninrebel at December 09, 2009 07:26 PM (i3PJU)
That was a read. You had me at hello.
Posted by: Amused Observer at December 09, 2009 07:26 PM (Uy/AI)
Where is this post-racial America in which you seem to dwell?
This one right here, dude. Where, despite your distopian vision, people, of whatever race, do NOT get beaten up or murdered for racial reasons with any frequency.
don't know if it's someone on the Left or the Right or just a typical - dare I say? - redneck teen who periodically graces our synagogue with swastika graffiti.
I can see that you're traumatised.
Posted by: flenser at December 09, 2009 07:26 PM (wzWvK)
Posted by: ace at December 09, 2009 11:18 PM (jlvw3)
Maybe they're keeping it all from me. Jews are concerned with actions, not words. Jews tend to be worried about the next extermination attempt - because it is always lurking just around the corner, as history has shown. Like I said, there are Holocaust deniers (who really don't matter one whit) and there are those who cry at the mention of the word "holocaust" but support policies that will destroy Israel and incinerate another 6 million. The Holocaust deniers are not really significant, in any way. If your Jewish friends think so (you didn't say that, but if they are offended by name-calling, I imagine they would be) then they are not what I would call "typical", in that regard. None of my friends or family are concerned about name-calling or holocaust denying. Well, we do have a leftist wing in the family, so ...
Posted by: progressoverpeace at December 09, 2009 07:27 PM (A46hP)
Posted by: ace at December 09, 2009 07:27 PM (jlvw3)
Posted by: Intrepid at December 09, 2009 10:43 PM (92zkk)
Neither. Jeremiah isn't my father, husband or son.
Posted by: baldilocks at December 09, 2009 07:27 PM (tAwrV)
Am I supposed to be offended by a swastika too? Oooh, those scary neo-nazis with their symbols!
When they're shipping us out of Manhattan into death camps in Trenton, maybe I'll be offended by a swastika.
Posted by: The Real Neptune at December 09, 2009 07:27 PM (muhdt)
Posted by: ace at December 09, 2009 07:28 PM (jlvw3)
I guess I win then because my friends are more diverse. Hell, I've even got Indian friends, dot and feather!
Posted by: The Real Neptune at December 09, 2009 07:29 PM (muhdt)
Posted by: Intrepid at December 09, 2009 10:54 PM (92zkk)
The key is to keep your shirt on. In case you didn't notice, this thread is long as hell. Some of us have a life.
Posted by: baldilocks at December 09, 2009 07:29 PM (tAwrV)
I am now officially board two tears here. This little nit picking back and forth is beyond childish, it has become stupid. Let me know when you get around to Armenians & Disabled Veterans and I might come and play.
Goodnight
Posted by: Old Hippie Vet at December 09, 2009 07:29 PM (3IZGh)
The key is to keep your shirt on. In case you didn't notice, this thread is long as hell. Some of us have a life.
Posted by: baldilocks at December 09, 2009 11:29 PM (tAwrV)
Very few. Very very few.
Posted by: AmishDude at December 09, 2009 07:30 PM (ItSLQ)
Meh. The ADL was never any great power. The media would go to the ADL for a quote every now and again, but other than that, the ADL didn't drive any news that didn't have other interested parties.
Posted by: progressoverpeace at December 09, 2009 11:19 PM (A46hP)
They did fight against the Klan and the Bund and the Silver Shirts in the 1930s, and help pass the Civil Rights Act in the 1960s, and fight against discrimination in housing and employment over the years.
Oh, and they did file an amicus brief on behalf of the firefighters in the Ricci case, arguing that the city unfairly discriminated against them. I guess they do something right once in a while - go figure.
Posted by: stuiec at December 09, 2009 07:30 PM (Ate22)
Has it ever occurred to you that perhaps your particular sensibilities are not the standard by which others are judged or people judge themselves?
Perhaps you mommy never told you this but....you aren't the center of the world. Sorry to have to break that to you.
Other people have different sensibilities and it doesn't make you less of a man to acknowledge that and act accordingly. It's actually something most of us do everyday, it's the kind of thing that actually makes society work.
Posted by: DrewM. at December 09, 2009 07:30 PM (FCWQb)
Posted by: chemjeff at December 09, 2009 07:31 PM (F+U5/)
Jeremiah Wright was born in the Germantown section of Philadelphia, Pennsylvania where being a black child amongst hordes of lederhosen-clad, oompah-dancing, bratwurst-devouring white people no doubt contributed to his less-than-positive views on Caucasians in general.
Having little other choice, Obama finally severed all ties with Reverend Wright, disowning him at a news conference on April 29th, 2008, characterizing him as "outrageous" and "destructive," and saying, "What mattered to him was him commanding center stage." This description, of course, could have been summed up in a single word. I think you know what that word is.
Dick.
Posted by: sickinmass at December 09, 2009 07:31 PM (Dxfei)
Just a thought.
Posted by: The Real Neptune at December 09, 2009 07:31 PM (muhdt)
Posted by: ace at December 09, 2009 07:32 PM (jlvw3)
1315
Some people go through comments to get offended, some for insight, but I'm rather partial to reading the occasional good old-fashioned azz-kicking.
Posted by: barbelle at December 09, 2009 07:32 PM (qF8q3)
Oh, and they did file an amicus brief on behalf of the firefighters in the Ricci case, arguing that the city unfairly discriminated against them. I guess they do something right once in a while - go figure.
Posted by: stuiec at December 09, 2009 11:30 PM (Ate22)
It really depends on what is frosting Abe Foxman's buns that morning. It should be the AFDL. Bill Donohue runs the Catholic League in the same way.
Posted by: AmishDude at December 09, 2009 07:33 PM (ItSLQ)
I'm glad I finally meet the man who sets the standards for all of our sensibilities!
Please tell me how I should act towards people of every race and religion, starting with Arabs and ending with Zoroastrians. I'll take notes.
Posted by: The Real Neptune at December 09, 2009 07:33 PM (muhdt)
I've made it clear that I agree with Ace's decision (in fact, I said he was being too nice about it), but I disagree with the logic he's using. He's stated that majority characteristics cannot be insulted with the same degree of offensiveness as minority characteristics. This is untrue. I've given several reasons why. Even blacks who live in majority black communities are offended by racial slurs from minority whites within the same community.
Posted by: JohnJ at December 09, 2009 07:33 PM (QhemS)
Posted by: Vile Roman at December 09, 2009 07:33 PM (sOpAl)
Posted by: stuiec at December 09, 2009 11:30 PM (Ate22)
Did they really? I didn't think the ADL had it in them, anymore. I'll have to throttle back on them a bit.
Posted by: progressoverpeace at December 09, 2009 07:34 PM (A46hP)
Part of conservatism is also respecting the received wisdom of the polite society. And polite society has rules. And they're arbitrary and they're unfair and they're irrational and they work.
Well done. Now tell it to Ace.
And I venture to say most of us don't like you for it, flenser. I certainly think the owner of the blog doesn't like you at all.
Since this is the hill you want to die on, since it's so all-fired important for you to rewrite the rules of polite society
If you bother to read the thread, you'll see that I'm one of those saying that Ace should just go ahead and ban whatever words he likes. It's easy for me to say, as I don't use the words in question. But I'd say it even if I did.
you can hide behind some sort of right to call anybody whatever you want on some kind of first-amendment-means-that-I-can't-be-criticized kick.
I've never said that I cannot be criticized. And I call people whatever I want about once per year.
Posted by: flenser at December 09, 2009 07:34 PM (wzWvK)
You only noticed the first 2,000?
*sob*
You have diminished the achievement of our lives.
Posted by: Michael at December 09, 2009 07:34 PM (JtKsy)
Tip to Ace: Stay out of the comments section on posts like these. You already stated your case in the original post. Don't even try to pretend you're up to my level of prolific composition. Otherwise, this shall be dubbed The Oddisy.
Posted by: Homer at December 09, 2009 07:34 PM (gbCNS)
I sent Ace a perfectly good story about two (seemingly) hot HS teachers engaging in a little classroom lesbian lovin'. Do I get to read a funny post about it? No. Why? Because he's in here explaining to people..."Hey, dial the insult meter down to 5 or 6. Ok?" And some of you are insisting on a right to be at 11!!!!! all the damn time.
Where the hell are your priorities people?
Posted by: DrewM. at December 09, 2009 07:34 PM (FCWQb)
I do want to add one serious comment though. Having read none of the thread yet. I don't post that much, but I one thing I do really love about this site and (you) Ace is that you care enough about being on the same page with your blog commenters that you go to the trouble to type out essays on what bothers you and then another guest essay by Larry King on why the first essay means no real offense and how we can all get along.
It's like being asked out on a date by a nervous stammerer. It's sweet.
Posted by: Amused Observer at December 09, 2009 07:35 PM (Uy/AI)
You're right, how dare I act like anything but a victim. I should just clutch my Jew victim card and hang myself up on that giant Star of David to be pitied and coddled like a good little disenfranchised Jew boy.
I'm sorry for straying off the reservation, master. Will you ever forgive me?
Posted by: The Real Neptune at December 09, 2009 07:35 PM (muhdt)
Has it ever occurred to you that perhaps your particular sensibilities are not the standard by which others are judged or people judge themselves?
Perhaps you mommy never told you this but....you aren't the center of the world. Sorry to have to break that to you.
Other people have different sensibilities and it doesn't make you less of a man to acknowledge that and act accordingly. It's actually something most of us do everyday, it's the kind of thing that actually makes society work.
Posted by: DrewM. at December 09, 2009 11:30 PM (FCWQb)
Drew, you should ask these exact same questions of Ace...
Posted by: conscious, but incoherent at December 09, 2009 07:35 PM (Vu6sl)
Posted by: AmishDude at December 09, 2009 11:33 PM (ItSLQ)
I like Bill Donohue. He's fiery.
Posted by: progressoverpeace at December 09, 2009 07:37 PM (A46hP)
I am intrigued by your views and I am interested in subscribing to your newsletter.
Posted by: AmishDude at December 09, 2009 07:37 PM (ItSLQ)
It's not the right to insult Drew, it's a deep and sincere concern that we're collectively are going all lefty PC.
Deep. Sincere. Haranguing can'tshutupabout it concern.
That's what it is.
Posted by: Dave in Texas at December 09, 2009 07:37 PM (Wh0W+)
JohnJ at December 09, 2009 11:33 PM (QhemS)
And it's been explained...they are only temporarily a majority. It's for a discreet time and place. Within the wider society they are a minority and one with a very specific history within this country.
You just seem to skip past that as if it doesn't exist.
Posted by: DrewM. at December 09, 2009 07:37 PM (FCWQb)
Posted by: runninrebel at December 09, 2009 07:37 PM (i3PJU)
Posted by: ace at December 09, 2009 07:38 PM (jlvw3)
And you're right, I should recognize all those 20 year old black men who feel the vicious STING of Jim Crow every day of their lives. I mean, they might have even been called a bad name by one of their white neighbors! An old white woman may have clutched her purse when she walked past him on the sidewalk. The agony he must have felt, so ashamed of his skin color, as a pair of white women assumed that he might be a good athlete, a poor reader, or even that he might enjoy rap music!
You're right, that kind of nasty institutionalized racism would scar any of us pretty deeply.
Posted by: The Real Neptune at December 09, 2009 07:38 PM (muhdt)
It's like being asked out on a date by a nervous stammerer. It's sweet.
Posted by: Amused Observer at December 09, 2009 11:35 PM (Uy/AI)
H-h-h-how y-y-y-ou d-d-d-oin'?
Posted by: AmishDude at December 09, 2009 07:38 PM (ItSLQ)
Where the hell are your priorities people?
If I may speak for the heterosexual female demographic, I prefer to read Ace's extemporaneous responses to the pack of jackholes he's dealing with. But I'm sure I'm in the minority.
Posted by: barbelle at December 09, 2009 07:39 PM (qF8q3)
Look, I understand what you're trying to say here. Majority characteristics, by virtue of being a majority characteristic, cannot be singled out with the same kind of feeling of isolationism as minority characteristics. I agree that we shouldn't promote intolerance of insignificant minority characteristics.
Is my point incomprehensible? Is it bizarre to think that our society teaches that some minority slurs are more offensive than other slurs for no reason other than that they are? Shouldn't we be promoting intolerance of the hateful motivation behind the use of these slurs rather than saying that there is some mystical quality to them that automatically makes insulting certain characteristics more offensive than insulting other characteristics?
Posted by: JohnJ at December 09, 2009 07:39 PM (QhemS)
They were here, and much like a woman's looks, they've faded with time.No longer here...
Oh, by the by: Bawney Fwank is a fudge packing Luddite sword swallower and Kanye Kandyass West is a knuckle dragging Malt Liquor swilling piece of Human Excrement. Yo.
Now you can swing you Charles "Chuckie" Johnson© Imitation Banhammer at me.
Status quo seeking dullards infuriate me.
Posted by: enter sandman at December 09, 2009 07:40 PM (il1NQ)
I'm waiting for your instructions. I have this Trinidadian girl I want to hit on, but I don't know which slurs are off-limits!
Someone should put this all in a book or something...
Posted by: The Real Neptune at December 09, 2009 07:40 PM (muhdt)
Posted by: conscious, but incoherent at December 09, 2009 11:35 PM (Vu6sl)
Why? Ace's point is about conduct on this site. Surely he has the right to set the tone and limits here.
I certainly don't begrudge him that.
I do begrudge someone like The Real Neptune thinking he gets to set the tone for the country.
Posted by: DrewM. at December 09, 2009 07:40 PM (FCWQb)
Posted by: ace at December 09, 2009 07:41 PM (jlvw3)
Yeah, I'm sorry where did I say or even hint that I want to set the tone or limits for society at large?
I'll wait while you rustle up a quote or two.
Posted by: DrewM. at December 09, 2009 07:41 PM (FCWQb)
You don't think a Latino might find it racist or insulting?
Posted by: carl at December 09, 2009 07:41 PM (BZZ7R)
No offense, Ace, but this makes it sound as if you are separating races. When I'm with my friends, we don't spend lots of time fretting over someone being black, or Jewish, or deaf. People are just people, first-&-foremost.
Posted by: Miss'80sBaby at December 09, 2009 07:42 PM (zmiSr)
You just seem to skip past that as if it doesn't exist.
That's true for all of us! If I go somewhere where I have a "minority characteristic", I expect that I will encounter commentary about it, possibly even intentionally offensive commentary. This is true for everyone.
Posted by: JohnJ at December 09, 2009 07:42 PM (QhemS)
Hell, sometimes I even let Laotians into my house. Laotians, people!
Posted by: The Real Neptune at December 09, 2009 07:42 PM (muhdt)
I sent Ace a perfectly good story about two (seemingly) hot HS teachers engaging in a little classroom lesbian lovin'. Do I get to read a funny post about it? No. Why? Because he's in here explaining to people..."Hey, dial the insult meter down to 5 or 6. Ok?"
No, you abbreviated what he said. It goes on, "you ignorant racist bigots who are just dying to use that racist word I won't let you use!"
Plus we're getting lengthy spiels about "white male privilege" that would do Bill Ayers proud.
Posted by: flenser at December 09, 2009 07:42 PM (wzWvK)
Is is just me or do you guys/girls look up to or admire Blacks who speak out and are positive about the conservative values (gop) I do. Lets face it, it take guts to go againts what is expected. Thomas Sowell is someone everyone on this site should read. He is a man, the MSM wants to write off But folks he is NO token. He speaks about our core better than even Ace can muster.
The definition of color is the oppression. Weak minds focus on the definition without understanding the meaning.
Posted by: Indian Outlaw at December 09, 2009 07:43 PM (8zsWd)
Posted by: crystal at December 09, 2009 07:43 PM (KVSUW)
Posted by: Kensington at December 09, 2009 07:44 PM (BlBnA)
It's not the right to insult Drew, it's a deep and sincere concern that we're collectively are going all lefty PC.
Deep. Sincere. Haranguing can'tshutupabout it concern.
That's what it is.
Posted by: Dave in Texas at December 09, 2009 11:37 PM (Wh0W+)
And the love. They do it out of love.
Posted by: DrewM. at December 09, 2009 07:44 PM (FCWQb)
Posted by: Michael at December 09, 2009 07:44 PM (JtKsy)
Not only have some not moved past it, but they cling to it for dear life, milking it for all it is worth. I have no use for someone who is going to pretend to be a victim in order to manipulate others.
What happened to black people in the past has no bearing on the choices available to black people today.
That past should not be ignored, minimized, or forgotten, but neither should it be used as an excuse for self-limiting and self-destructive behavior today.
When someone decides not to go to school and get an education but instead chooses to stand on the corner and do nothing, the fact that this person is black does not excuse him or make his bad choices the fault of someone else.
It is a leftist lie that says human beings should be held to different standards and expectations because they have different colored skin. That is racism in its purest form.
Show me a college graduate with a high GPA in a worthwhile field and I'll show you someone with a bright future. It doesn't matter if this person is black, white, or something else. People who make wise choices and pursue worthwhile goals are going to achieve most of them. External oppression does not prevent someone from being a worthwhile human being. Percy Julian is living proof of that.
Posted by: Lee at December 09, 2009 07:46 PM (TcVyy)
Why would I have to even facetiously pat myself on the back? It didn't happen to me. I've never been victimized by a quota. I don't see why this is particularly hard to understand, but obviously it is.
I never said I wanted hero points, but again, I enjoy the strawman and await my ruby slippers. I'm saying people who never experienced Jim Crow should stop acting like they've been cruelly victimized by institutionalized racism their entire lives. It demeans the people that actually went through that shit. Sorry, I'm not buying that a black man born today has some sort of Noam Chomsky-esque racial memory of hatred so burned into his mind that he should take just as much umbrage to the N word as Kunta Kinte would have.
It's like saying I should be just as offended by a Holocaust joke as an actual Holocaust survivor.
Posted by: The Real Neptune at December 09, 2009 07:47 PM (muhdt)
It's not the right to insult Drew, it's a deep and sincere concern that we're collectively are going all lefty PC.
Deep. Sincere. Haranguing can'tshutupabout it concern.
That's what it is.
Posted by: Dave in Texas at December 09, 2009 11:37 PM (Wh0W+)
And the love. They do it out of love.
Hey, to get so much personal attention from the blog's owner must be just like speaking directly to God.
Posted by: barbelle at December 09, 2009 07:47 PM (qF8q3)
"Is is just me or do you guys/girls look up to or admire Blacks who speak out and are positive about the conservative values."
It's sad to admit, I suppose, but sometimes the existence of black conservatives is the only that that still gives me hope for this country's future.
Posted by: Kensington at December 09, 2009 07:48 PM (BlBnA)
Yeah but -- I think I also saw somewhere that you are a chick. Sorry, black cred does not overcome the fact that you're just a chick.
Now, make me a sammich.
Posted by: Michael at December 09, 2009 07:48 PM (JtKsy)
Posted by: runninrebel at December 09, 2009 07:48 PM (i3PJU)
Posted by: Kensington at December 09, 2009 11:44 PM (BlBnA)
Where were those teahers when i was in school??? Story of my life premature or over due.
Posted by: Indian Outlaw at December 09, 2009 07:48 PM (8zsWd)
You know what gives me hope for the future?
That so many white people like Flenser and the Real Neptune have already gotten past the pain and stigma of Jim Crow.
You know what gives me hope for the future? Thoughful, caring, sensitive white people lke Ace who damned well won't let black people ever forget about the horror of Jim Crow under which some of them suffered forty something years ago.
As long as America has white people capable of that level of moral posturing, the future looks bright!
It's not black people have any more prosaic things to worry about, such as crime and unemployment and taxes. But lets not distract Ace while he preens for us.
Posted by: flenser at December 09, 2009 07:49 PM (wzWvK)
FUN SEXY CLOTHES!
Posted by: Kensington at December 09, 2009 07:50 PM (BlBnA)
Don't you understand? All blacks today are equally victimized by Jim Crow laws that haven't existed for decades, and if we aren't sensitive to that then we're just racist assholes who are probably just mad because we missed the last neighborhood cross-burning.
Now excuse me, I have to re-laminate my Jewish Victim Identity Card and iron my Klan Robes.
Posted by: The Real Neptune at December 09, 2009 07:50 PM (muhdt)
Lee at December 09, 2009 11:46 PM (TcVyy)
I agree. I just don't see forgoing racial slurs and lecturing blacks about what words should and shouldn't bother them as an impediment to what you suggest.
Posted by: DrewM. at December 09, 2009 07:51 PM (FCWQb)
Posted by: ace at December 09, 2009 07:51 PM (jlvw3)
And while we're at it, let's see who can swallow the most rusty razor blades in 60 seconds.
Posted by: Soap MacTavish at December 09, 2009 07:51 PM (554T5)
>> must be just like speaking directly to God.
We all have god-like qualities. Not "the God", you know, a little one. I've got hair a god... a goddamned dog.
Posted by: Dave in Texas at December 09, 2009 07:51 PM (Wh0W+)
Posted by: Kensington at December 09, 2009 11:48 PM (BlBnA)
Its not sad. Its a understanding of Hope..not that hope... the Real one..
Posted by: Indian Outlaw at December 09, 2009 07:51 PM (8zsWd)
Check out this handy-dandy compilation of slurs. I found "peckerwood" there.
O/T: I had a dream once about the cartoon Woody the Woodpecker, but the title was changed to Pecky the Peckerwood. The announcer said, "Hey, kids, it's time for Pecky the Peckerwood!" The title credits started kicking-in, and then there was that annoying laugh. I woke up laughing my brains out.
I'm going to lookup "kike" next. I never even heard that one until college. (Jews aren't allowed in Oklahoma or Texas.)
After that, "whitebread." Never got that one either. I saw that one in a movie once with Armand Assante.and Timothy Hutton. Good movie, from what I remmber. All the racial and ethinic animosity was out in the open, and everybody was busting on everbody. Excellent dark humor, but I couldn't decide whether they were using it to score cheap drama points for "tough ambiance" or whether they were making some larger statement about something.
Posted by: Jek Porkins (rdb) at December 09, 2009 07:52 PM (MNZJ8)
Posted by: The Real Neptune at December 09, 2009 11:25 PM (muhdt)
Are you really cool when both Rabbi Michael Lerner (!) and Pat Buchanan claim that the Israel lobby controls American foreign policy? Does it bother you that the Rabbi Lerner-Rev. Wright symps are now being installed into the State Department and the West Wing? Sure, it's one thing when an individual anti-Semite calls you a kike, but when organized political factions start blaming Jews and Israel for getting America into foreign entanglements and distorting domestic policy, do you not feel a frisson echoing from the 1930s?
Posted by: stuiec at December 09, 2009 07:53 PM (Ate22)
I disagree, I have nothing against Ace's ability to moderate his own site. Hell, if he wants to ban me because he thinks I'm being offensive, he's allowed to, and I can take my business elsewhere. It doesn't even have to be over a real offense, it could be over an imagined one and I still wouldn't care, as I have no inherent RIGHT to comment here, it is a privilege.
I simply think his viewpoint here re: 'being offended' is wrongheaded, that's all, and I am articulating my point, which he is graciously allowing me to do unimpeded.
Posted by: The Real Neptune at December 09, 2009 07:53 PM (muhdt)
You can run all the diversity classes you want, but when I walk out of the class I'm still a white guy, I don't "know" how it is because I don't live it all my life. I get annoyed with whites who somehow think "awareness classes" somehow bestow upon them total empathy. Then they slap an Obama sticker on their bumpers and engage in the self-absolution of "I'm can't possibly be racist, look at my bumper sticker".
For instance, how has Charles Johnson had life experiences which enable him to become the Great Decider on what is or isn't racism. He hasn't, he's simply appointed himself the Moral Authority on race simply on his own personal idea of what it is.
I ask our friend baldilocks; does it ever annoy you a little when someone who grew up in a white bread picket fence life tells you he or she somehow knows how it is to be black, simply because they were moved by a movie or attended diversity classes?
OK conservatives, ace is right in what might not offend you is hurtful to others, you don't live it so you can't possibly know, it's just not an emotional button for you.
Liberals are no better, they hide behind bumper stickers and pointing the finger of guilt at others. Yet the liberal DemSM declares a national crisis when a couple white kids shoot classmates to death in a suburban school, but don't even notice that black and hispanic kids are shot every day in the inner city schools.
Posted by: kbdabear at December 09, 2009 07:54 PM (sYxEE)
It's almost as if they have some sort of other, more burning, motivation for ignoring this basic tenant of conservative philosophy.
Posted by: DrewM. at December 09, 2009 07:54 PM (FCWQb)
Posted by: ace at December 09, 2009 07:56 PM (jlvw3)
I don't care about Pat Buchanan's anti-semitism, I care about his views in re: Israel. I don't care WHY he holds those views, whether it is a deep-seeded hatred of Judaism or whether an Israeli girl broke up with him once or maybe he just hates Woody Allen movies or gefilte fish, whatever the reason, it is his stance on Israel that I find dangerous, not his motivation for having said stance.
Posted by: The Real Neptune at December 09, 2009 07:56 PM (muhdt)
We all have god-like qualities. Not "the God", you know, a little one. I've got hair a god... a goddamned dog.
Doesn't matter. The Longhorns still suck.
Posted by: barbelle at December 09, 2009 07:56 PM (qF8q3)
>> So why do you guys still denigrate women?
Oh I am about to go apeshit on the women.
You have no idea.
Posted by: Dave in Texas at December 09, 2009 07:56 PM (Wh0W+)
Don't you understand? All blacks today are equally victimized by Jim Crow laws that haven't existed for decades,
And that only existed in one part of the country.
Posted by: flenser at December 09, 2009 07:56 PM (wzWvK)
Posted by: ace at December 09, 2009 07:57 PM (jlvw3)
Posted by: bebe's boobs destroy at December 09, 2009 07:58 PM (i9OG1)
It's almost as if they have some sort of other, more burning, motivation for ignoring this basic tenant of conservative philosophy.
Posted by: DrewM. at December 09, 2009 11:54 PM (FCWQb)
like maybe they are racist..is that what you were trying to say? Just curious.
Posted by: conscious, but incoherent at December 09, 2009 07:59 PM (Vu6sl)
You've really educated me today, before now I never knew how many 15-30 year old black people were deeply affected by Jim Crow laws that didn't exist when they were born.
This is actually starting to sound like the defense of Major Hasan. You know, he never really WENT to war, but he heard stories about it, and he just snapped!
You know, John never really had to use a colored water fountain, but he read about it in a book and it made him feel awful!
Meanwhile, the only people ACTUALLY wishing for the return of Jim Crow laws are white basketball players, because Rob Kurz would be a star if not for all those darn you-know-whats in his way.
Posted by: The Real Neptune at December 09, 2009 08:00 PM (muhdt)
Posted by: runninrebel at December 09, 2009 08:00 PM (i3PJU)
Posted by: crystal at December 09, 2009 08:00 PM (KVSUW)
Damn You Ace, Damn You!
Quit posting these threads. Some of us 83% have jobs and we have to work. I can't look away... must sleep. I swore I wouldn;t post but here my sorry ass is........Are you doing this to piss off Allahpun?
Posted by: Indian Outlaw at December 09, 2009 08:01 PM (8zsWd)
I beginning to think be banned would have been easier.
Posted by: Rocks at December 09, 2009 08:03 PM (ToM4s)
Posted by: ace at December 09, 2009 08:03 PM (jlvw3)
It highlights the "otherness" of the people he is championing and uses a latino name as a slur.
All insults, really, at their heart, express a simple statement: You are different from us and in an inferior way, too.
Posted by: carl at December 09, 2009 08:03 PM (BZZ7R)
Posted by: ace at December 09, 2009 08:03 PM (jlvw3)
Wait, I guess I can't say voodoo dolls since that might be seen as racist (voodoo is Haitian and all that jazz). Wait, damnit, I just said 'and all that jazz,' and jazz is a primarily black art form....I just can't escape my racism!
Posted by: The Real Neptune at December 09, 2009 08:03 PM (muhdt)
*Michael scratches head*
I got it! Let's focus on the fact that Allahpundit is a pussy.
C'mon, everybody hold hands and sing:
Kum bah yah, my Lord
Kum bay yaaaah . . .
Kum bay yah, my Lord,
Kum bay yaaaah . . .
Kum bah yah, my Lord
Kum bay yaaaah . . .
Allah is a RINO beta male pussy,
Kum bay yah.
Posted by: Michael at December 09, 2009 08:04 PM (JtKsy)
Posted by: Kensington at December 09, 2009 08:04 PM (BlBnA)
Yes, for this reason: in some ways, *I* don't know what it's like to be "black."
It's a small thing though. I give points for meaning well.
Posted by: baldilocks at December 09, 2009 08:04 PM (tAwrV)
I hear "Longhorns suck" all the time though, that one I know.
Learn it, live it, love it, Dave. The north shore of the Red River beckons...
Posted by: barbelle at December 09, 2009 08:05 PM (qF8q3)
Posted by: Indian Outlaw at December 09, 2009 08:05 PM (8zsWd)
You're right.
People never study history.
Families never pass down stories.
Individuals never feel any sympathy, pride or even connection to those that came before them.
Yep, each day the world is made over new without any continuity or reliance on that which came before. Our actions today have will have no impact on the future, just as what happened before has no impact, direct or indirect on us now.
Never in the course of human history have people carried racial, religious or class grudges forward from the past, sometimes even beyond its logical conclusion.or the time when any of the directly affected parties no longer survived.
Thanks for clearing that all up for me. Here I thought we were part of the human continuum. My bad.
Posted by: DrewM. at December 09, 2009 08:05 PM (FCWQb)
I do agree with you, yes. I don't think anyone on this website is being 'oppressed.' Like I said, I'm taking issue with Ace's arguments about who is/should be/can be offended by which slurs and issues of that kind. He has every right to ban whoever the fuck he wants to; his site, no?
Posted by: The Real Neptune at December 09, 2009 08:05 PM (muhdt)
Posted by: ace at December 09, 2009 08:06 PM (jlvw3)
Posted by: ace at December 09, 2009 08:34 PM (jlvw3)
Wow. That totally turned me on. Is there something wrong with me?
Posted by: Bernrome at December 09, 2009 08:06 PM (6lBl0)
Posted by: Amused Observer at December 09, 2009 08:06 PM (Uy/AI)
Posted by: chemjeff at December 09, 2009 08:07 PM (F+U5/)
"ofay": Pig Latin for "foe" - opposite of "friend." Used to be popular with political types who were down with their "African Roots."
"Whitebread" wasn't there. Looked it up on Wikipedia: "Bread made from wheat flour...." Aha. Didn't see that coming. Looks like it's really "whitebred." Uban Dictionary nails it: "A white person who doesn't understand slang terms commonly used by other races or is just uncultured in general." That's a joke, I suppose. It has to do with ancestry, I guess.
Posted by: Jek Porkins (rdb) at December 09, 2009 08:08 PM (MNZJ8)
Posted by: crystal at December 09, 2009 08:08 PM (KVSUW)
It's almost as if they have some sort of other, more burning, motivation for ignoring this basic tenant of conservative philosophy.
Posted by: DrewM. at December 09, 2009 11:54 PM (FCWQb)
On this I agree.
Analogy: that whole Founding Fathers, Bill of Rights thing certainly has no bearing on what's going on today. Forget about it.
/moonbat logic
Posted by: baldilocks at December 09, 2009 08:09 PM (tAwrV)
I am preventing black people from achieving the state of memory-wipe Nirvana that Flenser achieved 30 years ago when he completely forgot about something that never happened to him, and forgave all those people who never committed any trespass to him.
You know, you're right. I'm Irish on one side, and up till now I'd never thought that the Brits deserved anything bad happening to them.
But I'm just too darn forgiving of these historical slights. From now on I'll start agitating for America to nuke London.
Also, I should not confine my outrage only to those bad things which happened in my own famlies past. From now on look for me to be in a snit about the American Indians, and the Tibetians, and the Etruscans, who were so brutally victimized by the Romans in 2500 BC.
No more "what's past is past" from me.
That you, my spiritual guru! You have opened my eyes.
Posted by: flenser at December 09, 2009 08:09 PM (wzWvK)
Sorry, didn't realize we were meant to be slaves to history.
Darn, there goes my latent racism again, using a word like 'slaves,' which is always meant in a negative connotation towards black people, even though there are white slaves in the world right now.
Should I feel the pain of this vicarious suffering, DrewM? I'm not sure if I'm allowed to. Does the pain of history also extend to the Maccabees, or the Jews in Egypt? I guess I'm allowed to get my dander up as well whenever someone uses the word 'slave.' I'm storing up the faux-outrage as we speak!
Posted by: The Real Neptune at December 09, 2009 08:09 PM (muhdt)
Posted by: Dave in Texas at December 09, 2009 08:10 PM (Wh0W+)
Posted by: chemjeff at December 10, 2009 12:07 AM (F+U5/)
Bingo!
Posted by: conscious, but incoherent at December 09, 2009 08:11 PM (Vu6sl)
Posted by: chemjeff at December 10, 2009 12:07 AM (F+U5/)
I call men 'tripods' sometimes. Is that insulting? Oh wait...forget I asked.
Posted by: baldilocks at December 09, 2009 08:11 PM (tAwrV)
This thread is like a child whose been throwing a temper tantrum for four straight hours. Were about riled out...
Posted by: MikeTheMoose at December 09, 2009 08:12 PM (FXhEv)
It's funny to see so many putative conservatives arguing that past doesn't matter.
Civil sociey is not possible among people who bear grudges for things which happend to their ancestors. That's a conservative thought as well, you darned Burkophile.
Posted by: flenser at December 09, 2009 08:12 PM (wzWvK)
There's so much suffering in the world as it is, do we really need to add all the weight of human history to that load? Can I just feel vicarious pain for people in Darfur instead of Judah friggin Maccabee?
Posted by: The Real Neptune at December 09, 2009 08:13 PM (muhdt)
I love you. There, I said it. I do. I can forgive all of this craziness at AoS just because it means you post more often in these zaftig threads.
Posted by: Bomba Blue at December 09, 2009 08:13 PM (j1sCI)
"I call men 'tripods' sometimes. Is that insulting? Oh wait...forget I asked"
Most of us would make pretty wobbly tripods, I'm afraid.
Posted by: Kensington at December 09, 2009 08:14 PM (BlBnA)
Do you think it's a scam or something? That blacks and gays aren't offended by this jabs?
And if they are honestly offended, who exactly are you to tell them they are wrong and get over it?
I might joke with my guy friends about 'women being bitches' but I would not use that phrasing with my women friends. Now, I could argue with my women friends that it's just a word and they need to accept that or I could be an adult and realize that while I might not offend every woman, there's really no upside to taking the chance. Even if I have a great intellectual argument about why they should not be offended, offense is mostly and emotional response and one I'm not likely to argue them out of.
So what should I do? Tailor my language or stand on some sort of crazy principle?
Seems I'm not giving up much by not using 'bitches' around women and am being a decent human being by not offending the women I know.
Does that make me a PC sell out?
Posted by: DrewM. at December 09, 2009 08:14 PM (FCWQb)
There are lots of Americans named Juan and Miguel and Carlos. They are citizens and they vote. Using their names as a slur, implying that having a latino name makes you less of an American can't be helpful if we want them to join our party.
Posted by: carl at December 09, 2009 08:15 PM (BZZ7R)
Posted by: ace at December 09, 2009 08:15 PM (jlvw3)
Posted by: ace at December 10, 2009 12:03 AM
You're still pretty much guessing. When you walked out of that panel you were still a white guy. You drove on the street and cops saw a white guy driving the car. You might have stopped at the store and the clerks didn't tense up because they saw a white guy. Even Jessuh has admitted to hearing people behind him on a DC street, looking behind him and feeling relief that they were white.
That's a little bit of annoyance at gays who say they're "the new black". Really? Can blacks hide in the closet? Can they fool people into believing they're white? (not counting Halle Berry, Mariah Carey or Beyonce).
Attending lectures or diversity classes might be enlightening, but it's like putting on a blindfold. You can get some idea, but the whole life is out of your grasp of being it because you know you can take the blinds off and see, the blind guy knows he can't and probably never will.
Posted by: kbdabear at December 09, 2009 08:15 PM (sYxEE)
North shore? Hah. All you have to do is kick the crap out of their QB and you win.
I think McCoy is still seeing Suh in his sleep and waking up like Ripley in Aliens.
Now, just sing it once with me, "Boomer Sooner..."
Hey, did I get off-topic?
Posted by: barbelle at December 09, 2009 08:16 PM (qF8q3)
Posted by: chemjeff at December 09, 2009 08:16 PM (F+U5/)
When they're shipping us out of Manhattan into death camps in Trenton, maybe I'll be offended by a swastika.
Posted by: The Real Neptune at December 09, 2009 11:27 PM (muhdt)
Did your synagogue's day school get locked down when that Buford Furrow fellow went on the romp at the North Valley Jewish Community Center in L.A. back in '99? (1999, not 1899, that is.) Because we were kind of concerned about our kids after that guy shot four kids and a staffer at the JCC - shame about that postal carrier he ran into afterward.
And when Naveed Haq shot six people at the Seattle Jewish Federation, hey, no biggie - since only one died, it's reassuring that getting shot at a Jewish institution means just a one-in-six chance of dying.
At least James von Brunn only killed a Black guard at the Holocaust Museum - it might have been really bad if he'd hit any of the Jewish visitors, because it might have risen to the level of a threat.
If you can guarantee that each and every swastika on my synagogue - yes, it's happened more than once - is just the work of some stupid neighborhood teen and not a harbinger of a person bent on actual violence, then I'll start laughing them off, and tell our synagogue to stop hiring guards for the High Holy Days.
Posted by: stuiec at December 09, 2009 08:16 PM (Ate22)
Civil sociey is not possible among people who bear grudges for things which happend to their ancestors. That's a conservative thought as well, you darned Burkophile.
Posted by: flenser at December 10, 2009 12:12 AM (wzWvK)
If you expect people--any people--to be perfect automatons and systematically brain dump the bad history while retaining the good, then you've got bigger problems than can be addressed here.
Posted by: baldilocks at December 09, 2009 08:16 PM (tAwrV)
Posted by: ace at December 09, 2009 08:16 PM (jlvw3)
But... okay, let me put baldilocks on the spot: What do you think of this?
Posted by: ace at December 10, 2009 12:03 AM (jlvw3)
She already said that she dd not think the nose comment was racist.
On the other hand, its pretty darn obvious half the people here are just dying to throw the N word at her, so you can still say you're right.
Posted by: flenser at December 09, 2009 08:17 PM (wzWvK)
Posted by: crystal at December 09, 2009 08:18 PM (KVSUW)
flesner,
Um, you do realize that there are a lot of actual Irish people who are still pissed at the Brits right? And some of those grievances go waaaaaay back. Check out the Battle of the Boyne for an example.
Posted by: DrewM. at December 09, 2009 08:18 PM (FCWQb)
Posted by: BSR at December 09, 2009 08:19 PM (AJreE)
Posted by: bebe's boobs destroy at December 09, 2009 08:20 PM (i9OG1)
Do I think it is a scam? No. Do I think a lot of it is faux-outrage and mostly used to score sympathy points or to rake an opponent over the coals for their 'racism'? Yeah, I do.
This isn't about calling a black guy the n-word to his face. This is about all the marginal, ticky-tack bullshit that gets people in this country fired, blackballed, ruins their careers because of some imagined slight over a possibly offensive thing. I know you think I'm some dyed-in-the-wool racist who wishes we could put black people in the stocks and just shout the n-word at them all day as we build up glee in our hateful white hearts, but I'm really nothing like that. I just despise the fact that we have to be on pins and needles about anything and everything we say to someone who is a different race, religion, gender or sexuality. Not being 100% sensitive to insults real and imagined could get fired pretty quickly, or worse. All because I asked a black co-worker if he's good at basketball, or asked a gay guy if he's seen 'Rent.'
So yeah, faux-outrage at barebones bullshit like that gets my in a bit of a huff, and no one is really stepping up to put a stop to it. No one here is trying to enable vile, virulent racism that would be at home in the 1890's, and if they are, then I'm not going to carry their flag.
Posted by: The Real Neptune at December 09, 2009 08:20 PM (muhdt)
Posted by: Ripley at December 09, 2009 08:20 PM (orbdz)
If you expect people--any people--to be perfect automatons and systematically brain dump the bad history while retaining the good, then you've got bigger problems than can be addressed here.
It's a good thing I never said any such thing then, isn't it?
I merely pointed out that a country made up of blacks and whites and Germans and English and Irish and Turks and Armenians cannot afford for people to keep living out their pasts.
Posted by: flenser at December 09, 2009 08:20 PM (wzWvK)
Posted by: ace at December 09, 2009 08:22 PM (jlvw3)
So every swastika is a harbinger of future violence, eh?
I'm surprised you are even able to post here since you see violent, raving anti-semites around every corner and in every shadow.
I go to a university, I guess I should crap myself and run screaming whenever I see a slightly-peeved Asian kid, since we all know what happened at VT....
Posted by: The Real Neptune at December 09, 2009 08:23 PM (muhdt)
So don't pretend as if the past doesn't matter. It does both when you like it and when you don't.
Posted by: baldilocks at December 09, 2009 08:24 PM (tAwrV)
Posted by: Ripley at December 09, 2009 08:25 PM (orbdz)
Um, you do realize that there are a lot of actual Irish people who are still pissed at the Brits right? And some of those grievances go waaaaaay back. Check out the Battle of the Boyne for an example.
I do indeed realise that. But unlike you who seem to think its great they they have not "lost their heritage" or whatever, I think , no, I know that they are nuts.
Posted by: flenser at December 09, 2009 08:25 PM (wzWvK)
1) Perception of conservatives. As one of the prominent conservative blogs, AOSHQ will get more traffic from the average person than some generic conservative blog. We need to present a good face to the world.
2) Consideration of fringe visitors. By "fringe" I mean people who are on the fringe of moderate/conservative, not the loonies. AOSHQ is linked regularly from Hillbuzz, among others - people who voted D their whole lives, but were turned off by Obamania and are exploring their political viewpoints. (Oh, and pssssst - here's a secret - the Hillbuzz bloggers are gay. ZOMG!) No point in offending them, or people that visit here because of them, and causing damage in two ways - 1) stopping them linking here and 2) making them think maybe conservatism ain't all it's cracked up to be.
3) As Ace pointed out, they aren't generally funny, and they're especially not funny when they're made in anger.
4) I like to think myself above that, and would hope most of the people here would too. There is some brilliant posting done here; let's build on that.
Posted by: random at December 09, 2009 08:25 PM (eLppP)
Kids are mean, man bites dog, Charlie Gibson disavows any knowledge...
What does that have to do with racially inborn sensitivity to the n-word, or with banning people for that matter?
Posted by: The Real Neptune at December 09, 2009 08:25 PM (muhdt)
Nah, ewoks need love too.
Posted by: bebe's boobs destroy at December 10, 2009 12:20 AM (i9OG1)
Man, Ewok, Unicorn...as long as it talks dirty to me. ; )
Posted by: Bernrome at December 09, 2009 08:25 PM (6lBl0)
Posted by: The Real Neptune at December 09, 2009 11:12 PM (muhdt)
Again, ask Ennis Cosby. Oh, wait. The single white man who stopped on the side of the freeway, ostensibly to help Ennis with his flat tire, shot him dead, so Ennis may not be all that responsive to your query.
You are assuming that a single white man on the street with a Black kid is impotent. But sometimes that single white man wants a fight and uses the n-word to provoke one - maybe he wants to prove to himself that he's superior to the random Black kid in hand-to-hand combat, or maybe he's got a knife or a gun that "equalizes" him to the random Black kid.
So what do you teach your own kid? If he or she's alone on the street and someone accosts him or her with "kike," will you teach that there's certainly and definitely no risk in that situation? Or will you advise him or her to listen to that little warning voice that even if that person is pathetic and impotent inside, maybe outside in the physical realm he represents a potential threat?
Posted by: stuiec at December 09, 2009 08:26 PM (Ate22)
I have seen/read some stuff that I know offended people. But, where is it written that I should shoulder the responsibility of caring whether or not someone is offended. Is it some social obligation that I'm not aware of?
And if they are honestly offended, who exactly are you to tell them they are wrong and get over it?
I won't tell them are wrong any more than I would tell a river it is wrong for the way it flows. I just don't care that they are offended. You know why? Because (usaually) I don't go around saying offensive shit. If I do say something offensive, I apologize and move on.
Posted by: Rickshaw Jack at December 09, 2009 08:26 PM (nE6Eu)
I'm pretty new here and I'm not trying to be disagreeable. In fact I 98% agree with you here. I'm just wondering if you understand that some people read "the majority can't be marginalized as effectively" as "only whites can be racist". I know thats not what you're saying, but I think thats what people are viscerally reacting to.
Anyway, great site. Keep it up.
Posted by: BSR at December 09, 2009 08:27 PM (AJreE)
Posted by: bebe's boobs destroy at December 09, 2009 08:28 PM (i9OG1)
Posted by: MikeInAmman at December 09, 2009 08:28 PM (3UcPB)
Thing is this: a golden opportunity presented itself in the sixties when Jim Crow died. The Left took that opportunity and used it to 1) break up the black family and 2) miseducate black children. And we're (all Americans) still feeling the effects of that very recent past.
I agree with that 100%. My point, again, is that we don't want to encourage the different "tribes" in this country to dwell on all the wrongs which have been done them. That way lies disintegration and civil war.
I'm not ready yet to accept that that's a good thing.
Posted by: flenser at December 09, 2009 08:28 PM (wzWvK)
Posted by: Jek Porkins (rdb) at December 09, 2009 08:29 PM (MNZJ8)
Posted by: The Real Neptune at December 10, 2009 12:20 AM (muhdt)
This is a danger in these deals...we're discussing a lot of things and sometimes different things than the other person thinks we are.
I'm not denying there's faux outrage and innocent remarks get blown out of proportion and ruin lives. That's not the specific here (at AoSHQ) though. We're talking about people leaving comments in faux ebonics, comparing Obama to a lawn jockey, and a host of other things that then get brushed off as jokes.
I think, like everything else, there's a time and a place for things. I will joke with my black, gay, Jewish or whatever friends in a way I simply won't with people of those groups I don't know. And if I do take a liberty and someone is genuinely offended, my reaction isn't 'fuck you get over it'. It's 'sorry about that". That's not PC selling out, it's common courtesy.
Yes, we've gone far afield in this conversation but at the heart we are talking about what happens here. People can't always assume they are just talking to friends, this is a public forum and we should keep that in mind when we 'go there'.
Again, I don't think that's a sellout, just decency.
Posted by: DrewM. at December 09, 2009 08:29 PM (FCWQb)
Posted by: runninrebel at December 09, 2009 08:29 PM (i3PJU)
Posted by: ace at December 09, 2009 08:29 PM (jlvw3)
The Juan McAmnesty crap always bugged me but I don't normally bother getting outraged on behalf of others so I just let it go. But for the record I do think it is blatantly racist and can't possibly be good PR.
And I want you to think about how you are drawing a line, not where.
Posted by: carl at December 09, 2009 08:30 PM (BZZ7R)
I would tell my child to ignore the person who shouts racist insults at them. Would you rather I tell them to fight them and possibly get killed, just to carry the torch for Jews everywhere lest we ever be offended by a nasty little word?
Posted by: The Real Neptune at December 09, 2009 08:30 PM (muhdt)
It's a good thing I never said any such thing then, isn't it?
Well, yeah, but I'm trying to have a good faith conversation. Try it, you'll like it.
I merely pointed out that a country made up of blacks and whites and Germans and English and Irish and Turks and Armenians cannot afford for people to keep living out their pasts.
Posted by: flenser at December 10, 2009 12:20 AM (wzWvK)
We're in agreement again. It is okay to hammer out the details, no? Here's a detail: the past matters, both good and bad. The good need to be retained. The bad should be forgotten, but since we (humans) are not automatons, we sometimes have to work through a bad past. We (humans) can't do that if other humans tell us humans that the past doesn't matter.
Posted by: baldilocks at December 09, 2009 08:31 PM (tAwrV)
Posted by: ace at December 09, 2009 08:32 PM (jlvw3)
Posted by: ace at December 10, 2009 12:15 AM
Thanks for that, God forbid you'd give me nightmare images of you growing a ponytail, take up bicycle riding, start boring us with obscure musician clips, taking bad pictures of Long Island Sound, and becoming a self-absolving self-righteous dick
Or a beta male sitting with his two cats and crying over the picture of a fat rich blonde.
I think what you're saying might be better said by inviting baldilocks or another black moron/moronette to write the thread essay on this subject. It brings a bit more first person experience to it. It won't change things very much, people are what they are and move forward and backwards on their own experiences and yes, something we all have, biases.
But it would provide a real life perspective on it.
Posted by: kbdabear at December 09, 2009 08:33 PM (sYxEE)
No flesner, I think they are nuts too. I'm just not arrogant enough to think I'm the Lord High Arbiter of things and rub their faces in it.
You're the kind of guy (at least on the blog) who walks around saying "I speak my mind whether people like it or not" and think it's a mark of honor. Most people just think it's boorish.
Posted by: DrewM. at December 09, 2009 08:34 PM (FCWQb)
I have a different take on jokes, but I respect that Ace can wipe whatever comments he wants.
To me, jokes are either funny or not. It's a subjective matter, but really, that's all I care about. That whole 'rose garden - watermelon patch' thing falls on deaf ears with me not because of the racist implications, but because it's stale, hacky, predictable...it fails as a joke for a lot of reasons.
But some offensive jokes are funny. Hell, some are hilarious to me. When I was in high school, we found some neo-nazi literature in our gym teacher's office. So my friend (also a Jew) without missing a beat said 'Now we know what he meant when he told us to hit the showers.' And yeah, I cracked up. I don't think it was wrong of me to crack up. It doesn't make me lose 'Jew cred.'
Posted by: The Real Neptune at December 09, 2009 08:35 PM (muhdt)
Posted by: ace at December 09, 2009 08:36 PM (jlvw3)
Posted by: runninrebel at December 09, 2009 08:36 PM (i3PJU)
It does sort of seem like you are saying that, unless they are in an intensely hostile setting, straight white males are simply out of line if they take offense to 'racist' statements.
Posted by: The Real Neptune at December 09, 2009 08:37 PM (muhdt)
As a "person of color," I suppose I should have an opinion on the matter, but I'm really only here to read the humorous comments.
Posted by: Bernrome at December 09, 2009 08:37 PM (6lBl0)
My father and my mother's parents are from behind the iron curtain. My grandfather was a political prisoner under the commie scum that enslaved those countries. He hated the russians till the day he died, so does my father. They were directly affected by it, so they should be angry. Me, I dont hate russians just the fucking evil marxist philosophy that led to all that opression. Simply "forgetting the past" means i shouldnt be on the lookout for that shit, but if i'm not it could easily happen again.
I guess i see it as simillar to racism in that regard, its useless and counterproductive to blame current whites for the evils of their parents, but folks should hate the philosophy that drove the misdeeds, and not forget about evil ideas.
Posted by: BSR at December 09, 2009 08:38 PM (AJreE)
Did your synagogue's day school get locked down when that Buford Furrow fellow went on the romp at the North Valley Jewish Community Center in L.A. back in '99? (1999, not 1899, that is.) Because we were kind of concerned about our kids after that guy shot four kids and a staffer at the JCC - shame about that postal carrier he ran into afterward.
And when Naveed Haq shot six people at the Seattle Jewish Federation, hey, no biggie - since only one died, it's reassuring that getting shot at a Jewish institution means just a one-in-six chance of dying.
At least James von Brunn only killed a Black guard at the Holocaust Museum - it might have been really bad if he'd hit any of the Jewish visitors, because it might have risen to the level of a threat.
It's not impossible that you as a Jew may be murdered by some anti-semite. But you have to keep things in perspective. You're a lot more likely to get hit by lightening or die at the hands of a family member. If you're living in life of fear of being murdered by a neo-Nazi, I think your threat detector needs adjustment.
Posted by: flenser at December 09, 2009 08:38 PM (wzWvK)
Posted by: ace at December 09, 2009 08:38 PM (jlvw3)
So my friend (also a Jew) without missing a beat said 'Now we know what he meant when he told us to hit the showers.' And yeah, I cracked up.
...which I just did too.
Can I still say that around here?
Posted by: davis,br at December 09, 2009 08:39 PM (uCShA)
Posted by: The Drunken Conservative at December 09, 2009 08:39 PM (FlNcR)
And that's been the point all along, at least as it pertains to things here on the blog.
Funny is ok. 32 people chiming in with "Barney Fag Sucks Dick. Ha!" every time Barney Frank is mentioned...Not funny (on so many levels).
I've not seen Ace say, "no off color humor". Just no more redundant, boring and unfunny off color "humor".
This is really more a war on the humor challenged among us than racists when you think about it.
Posted by: DrewM. at December 09, 2009 08:40 PM (FCWQb)
As a "person of color," I suppose I should have an opinion on the matter, but I'm really only here to read the humorous comments.
And we've been letting you down in that respect. Normal service will resume shortly.
Posted by: flenser at December 09, 2009 08:40 PM (wzWvK)
Um, you do realize that there are a lot of actual Irish people who are still pissed at the Brits right? And some of those grievances go waaaaaay back. Check out the Battle of the Boyne for an example.
I do indeed realise that. But unlike you who seem to think its
great they they have not "lost their heritage" or whatever, I think ,
no, I know that they are nuts.
Posted by: flenser at December 10, 2009 12:25 AM (wzWvK)
Black people really did lose their heritage under the American system of slavery. 'Jackson' 'Washington' etc. isn't a surname endemic to Ghana or the Ivory Coast or wherever. Just saying.
Posted by: baldilocks at December 09, 2009 08:41 PM (tAwrV)
You say that by not caring whether or not someone is offended, I have in some way harmed them. How can this be? Am I not reading your response correctly?
As far as a friend being offended, I can truly say that I have no sympathy for them. I have been taught that being offended is inside your own head. That sticks and stones may break my bones but words will never hurt me.
Posted by: Rickshaw Jack at December 09, 2009 08:41 PM (nE6Eu)
Posted by: ace at December 09, 2009 08:42 PM (jlvw3)
Goodnight and cheers, one and all!
Posted by: The Drunken Conservative at December 09, 2009 08:42 PM (FlNcR)
And that's been the point all along, at least as it pertains to things here on the blog.
I wish that were the case, but both you and Ace have come out with some radially leftist stuff tonight, all this "while male privilege" and "minorities can't be offensive, only white males can".
Posted by: flenser at December 09, 2009 08:43 PM (wzWvK)
Posted by: flenser at December 10, 2009 12:38 AM (wzWvK)
I have to disagree, here. Jews are under a particularly dangerous threat, right now. Israel is being pushed to brink of extinction - physical extinction, as was close to happening in '73 and then some. The reaction of the "world community" to all matters Jewish has nothing less than openly hostile for a while, now, with the specific reaction to the Gaza operation being profoundly scary. Many didn't notice how bad things got very quickly. The reaction to Israel's attack on Iran is going to be 1000 times worse, as the world is ready and waiting for that and to blame all the world's problems on that action.
Jews used to have the US as a backstop to this, but that is no longer true. The Precedent and his useful idiots are itching to jump into bed with the rest of the world on the coming Iran reaction. It's going to be ugly.
Posted by: progressoverpeace at December 09, 2009 08:44 PM (A46hP)
I never played. No interest.
One of the nice things about aspergers.
Posted by: Rickshaw Jack at December 09, 2009 08:46 PM (nE6Eu)
How did that "jackson" "washington" "jefferson" thing come about? Like, how did those names get adopted? I'm guessing it was sort of like when Italian immigrants would just convert thier name to an anglo version upon arrival, but honestly I have no clue. Its interesting.
Posted by: BSR at December 09, 2009 08:46 PM (AJreE)
Posted by: ace at December 09, 2009 08:47 PM (jlvw3)
Why don't we help the gays, blacks, and <insert perpetually injured party here>'s think up some cool slurs they can use against us white-bread racists?
Then, we can just toss them at each other, and everybody can start with the same number of rounds.
Posted by: DeWayne at December 09, 2009 08:48 PM (4hQiP)
In this multi-hundred comment thread, that is a good thing!
Thank you Baldilocks. I'm glad that the right Rev Jeremiah Wright does not represent your father, your husband, your brother nor your son.
Egads - who does he represent?!!!!!
Posted by: Intrepid at December 09, 2009 08:48 PM (92zkk)
This place is different, and hopefully will stay that way. A bit of an irreverent way to look at the news, but just serious enough. It's what's kept me coming back to read, even though I've posted maybe five times ever.
And I'm not saying that racist and gay jokes are all okay. I'm saying they must not be ruled out. Because sometimes... they're fuckin' funny.
It's hard for me to answer here, because I'm not a tightass about this. I'm a straight white male, so I'm not persecuted. I guess the street corner standard should be used. If you wouldn't say it on a crowded street corner, don't post it in a comment.
Posted by: random at December 09, 2009 08:48 PM (eLppP)
Black people really did lose their heritage under the American system of slavery. 'Jackson' 'Washington' etc. isn't a surname endemic to Ghana or the Ivory Coast or wherever. Just saying.
I'm aware of that too, baldilocks. I don't get where you're going with this. I'm not saying bad things didn't happen to anybody. I'm only commenting on what should be done now. And I'm saying that Ace's worrying over Jim Crow ain't going to do anyone any good.
Posted by: flenser at December 09, 2009 08:50 PM (wzWvK)
There's a polarity in this argument which posits a ridiculous argument of "it's history, so let's move on" vs "it happened then and it's still happening just as much now"
This is or is not argument is especially prevalent in discussions of the Holocaust.
6 million people ceased to exist before their time. It affects world politics 54 years later.
The issues of race and politics today doesn't negate what is our history. What is learned and done affects our future. The Great Society programs of 1965 created unintended consequences that while likely well intentioned, led to the devastating breakup of countless black families.
Posted by: kbdabear at December 09, 2009 08:50 PM (sYxEE)
Draw from your inner porn star.Posted by: crystal at December 09, 2009 08:50 PM (KVSUW)
Posted by: chemjeff at December 09, 2009 08:50 PM (F+U5/)
BSR, in many cases simply choosing popular white names (something like 4/5s of Americans named "Washington" are descended from slaves).
In many cases they adopted the surnames of the men who owned them.
How's that for irony?
Posted by: Dave in Texas at December 09, 2009 08:51 PM (Wh0W+)
Why don't we help the gays, blacks, and <insert perpetually injured party here>'s think up some cool slurs they can use against us white-bread racists?
Why not deliberately misunderstand what is going on here? Or is it deliberate? Hmm.
Posted by: Jek Porkins (rdb) at December 09, 2009 08:51 PM (MNZJ8)
Posted by: ace at December 09, 2009 08:51 PM (jlvw3)
flesner...
Let's just say that since you continued to deny the white supremacist nature of von Brunn's writings, I'm not particularly impressed with your grasp of political philosophy.
Posted by: DrewM. at December 09, 2009 08:52 PM (FCWQb)
Posted by: MikeInAmman at December 09, 2009 08:52 PM (3UcPB)
I'm offended.
Posted by: Pipe-Smoking Cardigan Sweater Set Pedophile Professor at December 09, 2009 08:52 PM (F+U5/)
http://tinyurl.com/dgrbv4
Posted by: BSR at December 09, 2009 08:52 PM (AJreE)
Agreed, if a friend said he was offended by something marginal, I'd probably just say he was acting like a pussy.
Ace: So, to my above point, are you saying that it's "not proper" for white people to be offended by any type of slur unless they are in a hostile environment?
As far as the whole playground mentality thing, I just don't see where you're coming from. Yeah, I was a fat kid, and I got shit for being fat. So I gave other kids shit for their deficiencies, and on and on. My insults suddenly meant nothing unless I had a larger group of supporters? BS, man, especially if you hit someone's weak spot.
Good to know I have the official ace seal as interloper and blog menace! Can I pin it on my lapel?
Posted by: The Real Neptune at December 09, 2009 08:53 PM (muhdt)
That would piss me off, to find I was the only kid on the losing end of this, or the only kid who later felt very ashamed because he'd found a better "victim" for the group to tear into.
Posted by: ace at December 10, 2009 12:38 AM (jlvw3)
Posted by: Rocks at December 09, 2009 08:54 PM (ToM4s)
Posted by: ace at December 09, 2009 08:55 PM (jlvw3)
I was referencing someone else as the offender. I clearly stated that I personally do not go around offending people. (Usually). And if I do then I apologize and move on.
Posted by: Rickshaw Jack at December 09, 2009 08:55 PM (nE6Eu)
The reason why this is important is that it's only the group excluding the one (or the few) that can stigmatize. One kid cannot walk away from six and thereby stigmatize them, not even if he's an Ayn Rand superhero like Howard Roarke.
Still not buying what you're selling.
Everyone on this thread has heard what you are saying before, from the media, from college professors, from liberal friends and family.The fact that we are "on the right" is tightly tied into the fact that we don't accept it.
Posted by: flenser at December 09, 2009 08:56 PM (wzWvK)
Posted by: chemjeff at December 09, 2009 08:56 PM (F+U5/)
I don't think he meant that he has no obligation to not offend people. I think he means, do we have an obligation to carry the flag for people when they are offended by something else?
If I'm in the car with somebody, and a billboard offends them, what is my proper response? 'Yeah, that sure was offensive, I'm sorry you had to see it.' Or maybe 'Come on man, grow a pair, what was so offensive about that?'
Or is the proper response to be silent? Or to encourage their feeling of being offended tacitly?
Posted by: The Real Neptune at December 09, 2009 08:56 PM (muhdt)
It's not a misunderstanding at all. Ace has stated several time that white straights aren't really as offended as blacks and gays, because there aren't many common offensive terms for us in use.
And my point, is that instead of coming up with a "don't touch" list of words, why don't we even out the playing field.
The funny thing is, the reason that racism and racial hatred exists, is that it's suppressed, and that suppression is driven by societal rules that insist we all love each other, instead of recognizing that people tend to group.
It's not pretty, but it's true.
Posted by: DeWayne at December 09, 2009 08:56 PM (4hQiP)
Posted by: ace at December 09, 2009 08:57 PM (jlvw3)
Weirdly tho, I'm not sure i've ever known a white Washington or Jefferson. I knew one white kid in middle school who's name was (swear to god) "Michael Jackson". That kid had parents with a weird sense of humor I guess.
Posted by: BSR at December 09, 2009 08:57 PM (AJreE)
And we've been letting you down in that respect. Normal service will resume shortly.
Posted by: flenser at December 10, 2009 12:40 AM (wzWvK)
No worries.
And to clarify, in case there's someone who hasn't figured this out yet, people of color can indeed be racists. I don't believe anyone here has suggested this (I skipped several comments so I could be wrong), but, you know, just to set the record straight once and for all.
Posted by: Bernrome at December 09, 2009 08:58 PM (6lBl0)
Posted by: Dave in Texas at December 09, 2009 08:59 PM (Wh0W+)
How did that "jackson" "washington" "jefferson" thing come about? Like, how did those names get adopted? I'm guessing it was sort of like when Italian immigrants would just convert thier name to an anglo version upon arrival, but honestly I have no clue. Its interesting.
Posted by: BSR at December 10, 2009 12:46 AM (AJreE)
Before African immigration opened up in the sixties, most Americans who were black were descendants of slaves. When a slave arrived from Africa he/was forbidden to use the original name and given the master's name as surname. After the Emancipation, many former slaves did not want the name of their former owners, so they took the names of the POTUSs. It's a running joke, but that's why there are so few white Washingtons.
Posted by: baldilocks at December 09, 2009 09:00 PM (tAwrV)
Exactly how many more generations is it ok in your mind (Drew generally), do blacks get to reasonably say they are affected by slavery or Jim Crow? Or is it just minority status, can whites as no longer the majority in CA now claim an affirmative action statue?
Posted by: Guy Fawkes at December 09, 2009 09:01 PM (DIYmd)
That's fine and all but there's a reason why sociology is hostile to conservatives.
Because it's a soft-science written by liberals?
Posted by: Jek Porkins (rdb) at December 09, 2009 09:02 PM (MNZJ8)
Let's just say that since you continued to deny the white supremacist nature of von Brunn's writings
Yes, you keep warbling on about this Braun character. I confess, I don't have a clue what you're talking about.
But since its your obsession, I'm sure you have the thread earmaked and probably saved on your own PC. So let me in on the secret and link to whatever you're talking about.
Posted by: flenser at December 09, 2009 09:03 PM (wzWvK)
Posted by: The Real Neptune at December 10, 2009 12:30 AM (muhdt)
Why wouldn't you tell them to confront the person shouting racist insults at them? Aren't you the one arguing that such individuals are impotent, sad specimens who pose no threat to the objects of their slurs? What's the downside to your kid telling that person, "Hey, you're being a jerk"? That they could "possibly get killed" sounds paranoid to me, like being afraid of a li'l ol' swastika on your synagogue or car.
Posted by: stuiec at December 09, 2009 09:03 PM (Ate22)
A ton of this resentment is coming from the anger at the likes of Matthews, Olbermann, Garafalo, Bicycling Johnson and MoDo saying "shut up, you racist" as the shout down on every argument.
When a spittle flecked Matthews screams about race, he's saying in effect the old shoutdown of "because fuck you, that's why"
Posted by: kbdabear at December 09, 2009 09:03 PM (sYxEE)
Posted by: Cromagnum at December 09, 2009 09:04 PM (rRlh2)
Thank you for making the point I've been trying to make, but I guess I haven't been able to convey it effectively.
I have never been advocating in-your-face shouting the n-word racism, but how long do minorities get to be offended by ticky-tack stuff because of the sins of the fathers? In 100 years, when no man alive in this country has suffered under Jim Crow (so you can no longer say that a man is hyper-sensitive because someone's father or grandfather suffered under institutionalized racism), do they still have the moral high ground because of America's (by then ancient) history of institutionalized racism?
Posted by: The Real Neptune at December 09, 2009 09:04 PM (muhdt)
Posted by: chemjeff at December 09, 2009 09:05 PM (F+U5/)
Hey ace! When I tell you to come here, ya better come here!
Posted by: Scut Farkus at December 09, 2009 09:06 PM (sYxEE)
Posted by: BSR at December 09, 2009 09:06 PM (AJreE)
Why bother with such sad individuals? Let them stew in their own impotent rage, it will most likely piss them off more that their insults get no response.
To me, most people who shout 'Kike!' are like trolls in a forum thread. They get a rush from the response.
Posted by: The Real Neptune at December 09, 2009 09:06 PM (muhdt)
Posted by: flenser at December 10, 2009 12:50 AM (wzWvK)
I'm going the same place you are. (And you are the one who brought the 'lost heritage' thing up.) But what should be done now, cannot be properly done until all pertinent issues are addressed. One of them is past.
Another is (mis)education. For example, many if not most black people think that the federal government is their friend. Do you know why that is? I do. Because of certain things in the past--things related to Jim Crow.
Posted by: baldilocks at December 09, 2009 09:06 PM (tAwrV)
Posted by: ace at December 09, 2009 09:07 PM (jlvw3)
Posted by: Ken Royall at December 09, 2009 09:07 PM (9zzk+)
Posted by: Flenser's Memory Lobe at December 09, 2009 09:08 PM (jlvw3)
Posted by: Poli Sci Major at December 09, 2009 09:08 PM (AJreE)
The funny thing is, the reason that racism and racial hatred exists, is that it's suppressed, and that suppression is driven by societal rules that insist we all love each other, instead of recognizing that people tend to group.
I'm not buying that first premise. On ther other hand, I agree with part of your point: much racism is suppressed. I recall James Earl Jones saying the reason why he prefers to live in the south is because the racism is out in the open. He was specifically juxtaposing racism in the south with racisim in the northeast, IIRC. But he didn't say it went away. He said it was in the open.
And I don't think handing out bullets and telling people it's open season on one-another will cause the violence to disappear, so to speak.
Posted by: Jek Porkins (rdb) at December 09, 2009 09:09 PM (MNZJ8)
Posted by: Guy Fawkes at December 10, 2009 01:01 AM (DIYmd)
Honestly, I don't know.
As bad as race relations seem to be at times, look how much better they are than they ever have been.
People and societies aren't things that can be planned and made to run on schedules. They don't run in one direction, or at one speed. They are organic and they respond to a lot of inputs. Some of these inputs are good and some are bad. Right now, I'd say we are seeing a lot 'bad' ones, at least at the most visible levels. It would happen a lot sooner if not for the professionals in the race industry.
That said, I don't think a "I'll say what I want and you have to get over it" approach is going to be helpful either.
Posted by: DrewM. at December 09, 2009 09:09 PM (FCWQb)
Posted by: ace at December 09, 2009 09:10 PM (jlvw3)
Posted by: chemjeff at December 10, 2009 01:05 AM (F+U5/)
There are times when that analysis is appropriate. The problem with sociology is that it is populated with mediocre minds, at best, who have an agenda to push that has nothing to do with the actual study of sociology.
Conservatives aren't against all collectivism. We are only against forced collectivism, and especially collectivism in law and governmental structure. Free association says that we are free to form our own collectives, aside from those collectives that all naturally belong to, by virtue of any number of factors.
It's really a shame because sociology could be an interesting pursuit, but it would need some good minds to do the work. Since it only tends to attract leftists, chances of that are minimal, since intelligent leftists are only leftists because they have emotional problems, which kills their analytical abilities whenever there's a chance that their emotions can intrude.
Posted by: progressoverpeace at December 09, 2009 09:11 PM (A46hP)
Darn, there goes my latent racism again, using a word like 'slaves,' which is always meant in a negative connotation towards black people, even though there are white slaves in the world right now.
Should I feel the pain of this vicarious suffering, DrewM? I'm not sure if I'm allowed to. Does the pain of history also extend to the Maccabees, or the Jews in Egypt? I guess I'm allowed to get my dander up as well whenever someone uses the word 'slave.' I'm storing up the faux-outrage as we speak!
Posted by: The Real Neptune at December 10, 2009 12:09 AM (muhdt)
I like your thinking here.
By asserting some Biblican connection to the land between the Jordan River and the Mediterranean, Jews are giving themselves over to slavery to history.
By asserting some sort of right to that same land based on a UN resolution, Jews are wallowing deeper in that slavery.
No, you are absolutely right: the only thing that matters is today. Today, when Jews are in a dominant position over the Arabs living between the Jordan and the Mediterranean. Today, when the national aspirations and basic rights to self-determination are being denied to those Arabs by the insistence of Israeli Jews to security.
The only right path forward is for Jews to give up their irrational slavery to history and to get the hell out of Palestine.
Oh, and can I find out where your family gets its wine for Passover? Must be some good shit, since you apparently got so stoned on it that you never heard a word of the Seder.
Posted by: stuiec at December 09, 2009 09:12 PM (Ate22)
yes, also because it is inherently collectivist
Ideally, sociology is merely descriptive. I don't really understand what you mean about it being hard on conservatives.
Posted by: Jek Porkins (rdb) at December 09, 2009 09:13 PM (MNZJ8)
In many cases they adopted the surnames of the men who owned them.
How's that for irony?
Posted by: Dave in Texas at December 10, 2009 12:51 AM (Wh0W+)
It's not like they had an option, Dave. "Lemme see. Do I want my last name to be Mbenga or Jackson?" ::::whip cracks:::: "Yessuh I think I'll go with Jackson."
Relax, I'm not holding yall responsible. I just like to make American history more fun.
Posted by: baldilocks at December 09, 2009 09:13 PM (tAwrV)
I see where you're coming from. I went to a majority black HS that was pretty racially peaceful (as things go). I got weird looks attempting to talk about Terps b-ball or Jay-Z, but nothing truley racial other than the occasional "you must hate me cause you are white" nonsense, and being a republican didn't help that. But most of my grief in HS came from typical "you're fat, you're ugly, you're a loser" typical HS stuff.
Posted by: Poli Sci Major at December 09, 2009 09:14 PM (AJreE)
Posted by: ace at December 09, 2009 09:15 PM (jlvw3)
For example, many if not most black people think that the federal government is their friend. Do you know why that is? I do. Because of certain things in the past--things related to Jim Crow.
Interesting and strange. Can I ask you to hold that thought and we'll take it up tommow? At your place if you like. Once Drew presents the case for my "white supremacism", I'm calling it a night.
Posted by: flenser at December 09, 2009 09:15 PM (wzWvK)
For some people, calling someone a 'Kike' may be a way of saying 'you, you're different, you don't belong here, fuck you.'
And maybe some Jews were and are deeply offended by that. But the main way we fought that sort of racism was to BELONG. We sunk our tendrils so far into this country that when someone says we're different and we don't belong it is laughable. So many Jews are prominent entertainers, businessmen, lawyers, doctors, etc. We became un-apologetically American, embedded ourselves into society, made ourselves an inextricable part of the culture. We had an advantage here that black people don't, because we could hide our heritage, give ourselves whitebread names and then become so beloved that by the time Mr. and Mrs. Smith find out that we're really Jews, well, who cares? He's just like us, and he's so nice and funny, we should just accept him!
To me, that's how we fought racism. So yeah, if someone is trying to tell me that I'm different and I don't belong, I will just laugh in their face. How other Jews deal with that kind of racism is their business, really.
Posted by: The Real Neptune at December 09, 2009 09:15 PM (muhdt)
Posted by: chemjeff at December 09, 2009 09:16 PM (F+U5/)
Posted by: A Non Racist Black Kid WHo Just Doesn't Like Losers at December 09, 2009 09:17 PM (jlvw3)
I'm trying to make a shorter, more direct connection: That speaking in ebonics and yee-hawing it up about it is kind of racist.
Then could you please just delete the 0.000001% of comments here that feature those things and move on?
Posted by: flenser at December 09, 2009 09:17 PM (wzWvK)
To me, most people who shout 'Kike!' are like trolls in a forum thread. They get a rush from the response.
Posted by: The Real Neptune at December 10, 2009 01:06 AM (muhdt)
Suppose the sad individual wants to bother with your kid? I mean, the hypothetical schmuck went out of his way to call your kid a kike. Suppose the jerk doesn't like being ignored? Would you tell your kid that if the jerk responds to being ignored by walking up to your kid, getting into his or her face, that your kid shouldn't worry because the person's rage is impotent and there's no chance of the jerk acting out on it?
Are you really going to teach your kid that anyone who calls them a kike is only using an empty word and has no further evil or violent intent beyond making the insult? Is that congruent with your sense of reality?
Posted by: stuiec at December 09, 2009 09:18 PM (Ate22)
Interesting and strange. Can I ask you to hold that thought and we'll take it up tommow? At your place if you like. Once Drew presents the case for my "white supremacism", I'm calling it a night.
Posted by: flenser at December 10, 2009 01:15 AM (wzWvK)
It would be my pleasure. Have a good evening.
Posted by: baldilocks at December 09, 2009 09:18 PM (tAwrV)
Cant make this stuff up folks
Posted by: BSR at December 09, 2009 09:19 PM (AJreE)
Allusions to monkeys and ebonics aren't ticky-tack.
Stuff that is ticky-tack? Saying two black people look alike. Bill James has talked about this, with sportscasters. If you say that two black athletes look alike, you'll be seen as racist, unless they look SO MUCH alike that not saying so would hurt your credibility.
And yes, saying two black people look alike is generally seen as racist. I don't know why, it just is.
Posted by: The Real Neptune at December 09, 2009 09:19 PM (muhdt)
I suppose I should teach my kids to be so bogged down in hypotheticals that they never actually do anything, just navel-gaze for hours on end.
Posted by: The Real Neptune at December 09, 2009 09:21 PM (muhdt)
And the reason for that I have suggested is that only one set there is invested with the old power of exclusionary power games.
A slur against a white guy can hurt, but what it can't ever do is tell the white guy "You are different and you don't belong," because, like, DUDE. We're 65% of the country.
Then this is just where we disagree. Your argument doesn't seem to me to be that we should be more considerate because of those characteristics that are in the minority, or else it would include hateful comments against other minority characteristics. Your argument seems to me to be that we should be more considerate of these particular characteristics. I agree with you that slurs against the characteristics under consideration are more offensive, but I disagree with you as to why. The reason why these minority characteristics are more offensive than other minority characteristics is because we've been told over and over that they are.
Well, I think that if we acknowledge that racial differences are no more significant than differences in height, we'll be making good progress. There's no good reason for someone to be more offended by a particular slur against a particular race than there is to be offended by a slur against someone who happens to be a member of the long-derided vertically challenged community.
I'm not asking to hate on anybody. I'm glad that Ace is taking a stand against offensive behavior. I just wish that he'd recognize that the reason it's offensive is because of the intent to be offensive, and not because certain slurs are inherently more offensive.
Posted by: JohnJ at December 09, 2009 09:22 PM (QhemS)
That said, I don't think a "I'll say what I want and you have to get over it" approach is going to be helpful either.
I agree. I do think at some point more people need to point it out that it is going to be deep history and they can't truly be claiming oppression for that history. If its not pointed out, it will always be claimed. Kinda like Obama still blaming Bush for every problem and not taking responsibility.
Posted by: Guy Fawkes at December 09, 2009 09:22 PM (DIYmd)
The UN Resolution is all that matters. If our only claim to the land was Biblical citations, then yeah, I'd say we should probably be a little more welcoming to the Palestinians. We have a claim to the land because everyone else agreed it should be ours.
Posted by: The Real Neptune at December 09, 2009 09:23 PM (muhdt)
I should bookmark it since it's helpful to remind people about you on ocassions like this.
Here's the thread.
Let's see...
Comment 155 by you....
I agree with Lima about this much. Once you debunk the theory that Brunn is a "white supremacist" then his actual tendancies (anti-Semitism, anti-Christian, etc) make him look like a lefty. So maybe we should back off on this whole "white-supremacist" charge pending actual data. Let's not accept him as a "right-wing extremist" until we know the facts.
Someone quotes von Brunn in comment 171 and in comments 162 and 165 you deny it's white supremacist language.
Any way, I'm off to bed but I'll be sure to check back tomorrow for what should be a fun rant by you.
Posted by: DrewM. at December 09, 2009 09:23 PM (FCWQb)
Posted by: ace at December 09, 2009 09:24 PM (jlvw3)
Posted by: flenser at December 10, 2009 01:15 AM (wzWvK)
That's pretty disingenuous even for you.
I never said you were a "white supremacist" I said you denied von Brunn, the Holocaust Museum shooter was one.
Posted by: DrewM. at December 09, 2009 09:24 PM (FCWQb)
Posted by: ace at December 09, 2009 09:25 PM (jlvw3)
A slur against a white guy can hurt, but what it can't ever do is tell the white guy "You are different and you don't belong," because, like, DUDE. We're 65% of the country.
I'm afraid that the much put upon white guys are only 32% of the country. Which is a good thing. I'd hate to live in a country that was only 35% female.
Posted by: flenser at December 09, 2009 09:26 PM (wzWvK)
Posted by: BSR at December 09, 2009 09:26 PM (AJreE)
The other reason is that I can let my hair down, so to speak. Don't crack down too hard, Ace.
Night.
Posted by: baldilocks at December 09, 2009 09:26 PM (tAwrV)
Posted by: Rickshaw Jack at December 09, 2009 09:26 PM (nE6Eu)
Posted by: Guy Fawkes at December 10, 2009 01:01 AM (DIYmd)
Good question. And a related question is, to what degree is it the responsibility of Blacks as a community and as individuals to overcome that legacy?
While we are considering those questions, why and how is it a good idea to hamper that process of overcoming the legacy of racism by making gratuitously offensive jokes and comments about Blacks?
Posted by: stuiec at December 09, 2009 09:27 PM (Ate22)
You've heard those "studies" that claim that e.g. women are X times more likely to be beaten on Super Bowl Sunday than on any other time of the year? Yeah, well that's not "merely descriptive".
Posted by: chemjeff at December 09, 2009 09:27 PM (F+U5/)
Posted by: ace at December 09, 2009 09:28 PM (jlvw3)
Posted by: ace at December 09, 2009 09:29 PM (jlvw3)
That was pretty frickin' funny stuff right there.
Yes, Ace, we all remember the savagery of the fourth grade.
And, my two cents worth, if your matured at all, we probably learned to recognize that some folks are probably need more courtesy and protection than others. Like, for example, blacks, gays, and Lutherans.
Posted by: Michael at December 09, 2009 09:29 PM (JtKsy)
Posted by: ace at December 09, 2009 09:30 PM (jlvw3)
I never said you were a "white supremacist" I said you denied von Brunn, the Holocaust Museum shooter was one.
Whatever. You have that link? Because I still don't know what you are talking about.
That's pretty disingenuous even for you.
This thread will go down in history as "The Irony Thread".
Posted by: flenser at December 09, 2009 09:30 PM (wzWvK)
Posted by: Guy Fawkes at December 10, 2009 01:22 AM (DIYmd)
Well, not really.
That's a political and personal idiocy.
There are some people who just want to pretend race isn't that big of a deal. Sure in an ideal world but in the real one, here and now (and throughout history), it's a huge deal. One of the biggest deals in fact.
We simply can't wish that away or pretend the slate is blank and the only thing that matters is what happens starting.....NOW!
Posted by: DrewM. at December 09, 2009 09:31 PM (FCWQb)
Posted by: The Real Neptune at December 10, 2009 01:23 AM (muhdt)
Excellent. Just remember: what the UN giveth, the UN can taketh away. I bet a global referendum on the existence of Israel would give a pretty large majority for "erase it." Is external opinion really the only basis on which Jews have a right to live in their own nation of Israel in the land between the Jordan and the Mediterranean?
Posted by: stuiec at December 09, 2009 09:32 PM (Ate22)
Calling that super bowl thing bullshit would be an insult to bovine excrement. And its not like the study was flawed, there was never even a study that said it. It was claimed in some book and taken for truth from then on. I could find the article i read about it but i'm way too lazy at 2am (or whatever the fuck time it is)
But point taken. Sociology, at least at my school, was all pure marxism 101.
Posted by: BSR at December 09, 2009 09:32 PM (AJreE)
Yeah, it was in the fucking comment or are you just going to play stupid?
Posted by: DrewM. at December 09, 2009 09:33 PM (FCWQb)
One thing that bothered me recently -- Kemp said this, about the judge who released the Seattle Cop Killer -- was "I bet you he's black," or something. This wasn't a joke, really, but it has the same element of one-second thoughtlessness that bothers me about some jokes.
What does the statement "I bet you he's black" mean? What is the point? Is there a suggestion that blacks shouldn't be judges? Someone might say, "Of course I didn't mean that!" but the follow-up question is: "Okay, you didn't mean that; but what did you mean?"
Possibly could the point have been that blacks tend to stick together? You know, 97% or so voted for 0bama. 0bama received something like 90% of the black vote in the later Democrat primaries last year. And now, despite his overall poll numbers dropping into the 40s, blacks still support 0bama about 9 to 1, and about 7 or 8 in 10 "strongly support" 0bama. Or look at how whites viewed the OJ Simpson trial compared to how blacks viewed it.
Posted by: RJ at December 09, 2009 09:34 PM (ADbI4)
The fact that you just wave away getting caught in a gross distortion of what I wrote with a "Whatever" shows just how intellectually bankrupt you are.
Posted by: DrewM. at December 09, 2009 09:34 PM (FCWQb)
Posted by: chemjeff at December 09, 2009 09:35 PM (F+U5/)
Posted by: BSR at December 09, 2009 09:36 PM (AJreE)
Posted by: Me at December 09, 2009 09:37 PM (kgOwD)
Foskett, Ken. "Judging Thomas" p. 89.
Alternatively, we could teach our children that black people are special and should never be teased for being black And we can teach black children that people of other races are not allowed to comment on racial characteristics of black people, since it's inherently more offensive than other types of discrimination against minorities. Ya, that'll work.
Posted by: JohnJ at December 09, 2009 09:38 PM (QhemS)
Posted by: ace at December 09, 2009 09:38 PM (jlvw3)
When I hear that there was a suicide bombing, I would think "I bet it was a Muslim."
Is that being insensitive, or just hedging my bets well?
Posted by: The Real Neptune at December 09, 2009 09:39 PM (muhdt)
"Whitebred" is only an insult in that it ridicules the object for not being in tune with Black culture.
"Breeder" isn't even an insult - it's an internal shorthand for "not one of us." It's hard for the Yiddish term "goy" to be considered an insult - it's just a separator.
Posted by: stuiec at December 09, 2009 09:39 PM (Ate22)
Posted by: charles emerson winchester IX at December 09, 2009 09:40 PM (Jw5LI)
You're sort of painting whites a monolithic. I really think most of us are pretty 'chill' with anti-white slurs, whether or not that is because they are supposedly 'weaksauce' I cannot say with certainty.
Posted by: The Real Neptune at December 09, 2009 09:40 PM (muhdt)
Okay, that is really effing stupid, ace. Black people have significantly shorter life spans and different health problems too. WTF, dude?
Posted by: JohnJ at December 09, 2009 09:41 PM (QhemS)
Posted by: ace at December 09, 2009 09:42 PM (jlvw3)
Posted by: Jim Treacher at December 09, 2009 09:42 PM (GrDz5)
Posted by: ace at December 09, 2009 09:43 PM (jlvw3)
Posted by: ace at December 09, 2009 09:44 PM (jlvw3)
There are some people who just want to pretend race isn't that big of a deal. Sure in an ideal world but in the real one, here and now (and throughout history), it's a huge deal. One of the biggest deals in fact.
I think race is a biggish deal. Of course I think it's a big deal from a conservatism perspctive - the belief in such a thing as "a people".I don't think that's where you and Ace are going with the "race is important" line of argument.
The fact that you just wave away getting caught in a gross distortion of what I wrote with a "Whatever
What can I say? I don't pay close attention to the things you write. Not nearly as close as you pay to what I write. I'm just not that into you, sorry.
Since you asked me so nicely, I'll have a look at whats troubling you.
Posted by: flenser at December 09, 2009 09:44 PM (wzWvK)
I never said anything about encouraging kids to ostracize and bully. This is getting really pathetic. I've clearly stated my position several times. I expected more from you.
Posted by: JohnJ at December 09, 2009 09:44 PM (QhemS)
Yep, that's one of mine. I think he is a silly goose!
Posted by: Jim Treacher at December 10, 2009 01:42 AM (GrDz5)
He strikes me at the type to take his goosing seriously.
Posted by: stuiec at December 09, 2009 09:46 PM (Ate22)
Posted by: charles emerson winchester IX at December 09, 2009 09:47 PM (Jw5LI)
Posted by: ace at December 09, 2009 09:48 PM (jlvw3)
So stop with this fucking bullshit that both sides are perfectly, completely similarly situated and that if whitey can be put down for being uptight and having no rhythm than blacks can and should put up with the decades of stored-up racial put-downs.
Sounds like somebody needs to stop storing stuff up.
Posted by: flenser at December 09, 2009 09:48 PM (wzWvK)
Bingo.
Posted by: Amused Observer at December 09, 2009 09:49 PM (Uy/AI)
Posted by: JohnJ at December 09, 2009 09:49 PM (QhemS)
Credit where it's due....you've mastered the childish tactic of feigning indifference when confronted with your lies and sloppy thinking.
Congratulations.
Posted by: DrewM. at December 09, 2009 09:49 PM (FCWQb)
A black racist who hates whites and calls a white person a "cracker" has THE SAME HATEFUL INTENTION as a white racist who hates blacks and calls a black person the "n-word."
The INTENT is the same. Therefore, they are equally ugly and hateful, in my opinion.
The only reason the two terms are considered to be on a different level is because white people are generally laid back about that kind of stuff (because whites have been conditioned to believe that it's "no big deal"), whereas blacks have been conditioned to respond to such insults with rage and possibly "justified" violence.
I worked with a black nationalist-type once. She explained to me that blacks view white people who shrug off racial taunts ("cracker," "whitey," "white boy," etc.) hurled at them by blacks as a sign of weakness. I swear to you, that was how she explained it.
Posted by: RJ at December 09, 2009 09:49 PM (ADbI4)
Posted by: ace at December 09, 2009 09:50 PM (jlvw3)
I'm off to bed
Sleep well, sweet prince.
but I'll be sure to check back tomorrow for what should be a fun rant by you.
I'm afraid you're mixing me up with Ace. I'm boring, really boring.
Posted by: flenser at December 09, 2009 09:50 PM (wzWvK)
I was offended because it was Obama being a dumbass like usual, not because I thought he was putting down all whites.
Posted by: The Real Neptune at December 09, 2009 09:52 PM (muhdt)
"Whitebred" is only an insult in that it ridicules the object for not being in tune with Black culture.
In the movie Q & A, it was Armand Assante's character who used the term.
Posted by: Jek Porkins (rdb) at December 09, 2009 09:52 PM (MNZJ8)
But we're teaching them to not tease black kids about ANYTHING, lest they possibly be offended by it.
Posted by: The Real Neptune at December 09, 2009 09:52 PM (muhdt)
Credit where it's due....you've mastered the childish tactic of feigning indifference when confronted with your lies and sloppy thinking.
And you're getting better at this insult business. Not quite good enough to be worth my time, but you are improving. With hard work, who knows?
Posted by: flenser at December 09, 2009 09:53 PM (wzWvK)
Posted by: Guy Fawkes at December 09, 2009 09:53 PM (DIYmd)
My point has always been that black skin is a characteristic that should be treated like any other characteristic. Teaching children that there's something special about black skin that differentiates it from teasing about someone's hair/height/glasses/w/e only ensures that it will never become just another characteristic.
Posted by: JohnJ at December 09, 2009 09:54 PM (QhemS)
Well Ace, if you want to guarantee a 1500+ comment thread each night, now you know that all you need to do is particpate. I loved the back and forth.
Posted by: conscious, but incoherent at December 09, 2009 09:55 PM (Vu6sl)
Posted by: ace at December 09, 2009 09:55 PM (jlvw3)
-----"Whitebred" is only an insult in that it ridicules the object for not being in tune with Black culture.-----
I think it is "white bread" not "white bred", and I have been called that by a number of white (Italianish, greekish) and non-white (Chinesish) friends of mine (I look totally WASPY, and am, except for the American Indian portion).
Your firends are using it in the When Harry Met Sally and Annie Hall context. As in, you'd order pastrami on white bread with mayonnaise, that's just how locked into your culture you are.
-----It's hard for the Yiddish term "goy" to be considered an insult - it's just a separator.-----
What about "traif" or "shicksa"?
A shiksa is definitely traif, especially if you eat her.
Posted by: stuiec at December 09, 2009 09:56 PM (Ate22)
Posted by: Jim Treacher at December 09, 2009 09:57 PM (GrDz5)
Posted by: ace at December 09, 2009 09:58 PM (jlvw3)
Posted by: Guy Fawkes at December 10, 2009 01:53 AM (DIYmd)
It wasn't all that long ago. Pearl Harbor, remember, was almost a quarter century before Selma.
Posted by: stuiec at December 09, 2009 09:59 PM (Ate22)
Anything I forget?
Posted by: Miss'80sBaby at December 09, 2009 10:00 PM (zmiSr)
Thats why I specifically used 150 years, nobody is 150 years old.
Posted by: Guy Fawkes at December 09, 2009 10:01 PM (DIYmd)
Posted by: ace at December 09, 2009 10:02 PM (jlvw3)
Thats why I specifically used 150 years, nobody is 150 years old.
Posted by: Guy Fawkes at December 10, 2009 02:01 AM (DIYmd)
I fell like I"m 150 years old. Does that count?
Posted by: conscious, but incoherent at December 09, 2009 10:03 PM (Vu6sl)
Holy shit, Ace, are you on fucking drugs?
Are you seriously suggesting that (1) everyone not otherwise self-identified here is white, and (2) it would make a fucking difference if not?
Lefty pooter: just not worth it.
On the other hand, if this is about banning flenser, just fucking do it already. It's long overdue.
Posted by: someone at December 09, 2009 10:04 PM (njJQD)
True story.
I was driving back to the airport in Denver with a gay co-worker back in 1986. We'd just finished a two-day site survey with a client in Boulder.
As I took an off-ramp, another driver cut me off. I shouted, "Nice move, you cocksucker!" I instantly realized what I'd said, and turned to Robin. "Sorry - no offense."
He laughed and said, "None taken."
(I guest there should be more to the story. But really, that's all that happened.)
Posted by: stuiec at December 09, 2009 10:05 PM (Ate22)
I'm not sure the US has ever been a true melting pot. There are groups which have been here from the begining which still cling stubbornly to their own separate identity. And Europe, perhaps to their credit, never even gave lip-service to the idea.
Just in case it wasn't clear, he spells it out....
Golly, who on earth could I have been talking about? Your raging paranoia and percecution complex aside, I meant African Americans. Jews are an interesting case, in that they used to be far more assimilated than they are today.
But you know, he's all about the love.
Posted by: DrewM. at December 09, 2009 10:05 PM (FCWQb)
You forgot one thing. You are a chick and you are seeking resolution, whereas most of the people here are dudes and are seeking victory and, short of that, mockery and ridicule of their opponents.
You british?
Also Breast Pics. You forgot those.
Posted by: Guy Fawkes at December 09, 2009 10:05 PM (DIYmd)
That's not chill. That's taking offense.
And I think it's right to take some offense. Not just at the hypocrisy of it all, but the blase manner in which Obama just instinctively sided with his friend and political supporter without knowing the facts.
I think a certain amount of offense-taking is good, and proper.
Posted by: ace at December 10, 2009 01:48 AM (jlvw3)
Ace, I get ya. I really do, and agree but you are losing me here with this and the "there's few racial slurs for white people" thing. The stupid thing was offensive because it wasn't stupid. People would have felt the same if the cop was black. Some of the cops were black. Cops doing their job isn't stupid, even when it's a Harvard Professor who happens to be black. And there are plenty of white slurs. People are just lazy and lump whites into one group when they aren't and never have been.
Greasy WOP still works. So does dumb Polack and Irish drunk. Or even, if I dare say it, Episcopalian.
What kind of lily white childhood did you have anyway?
Posted by: Rocks at December 09, 2009 10:05 PM (ToM4s)
So Misogyny is still kosher? Sweet! I got some awesome Helen Keller jokes I can bust out at any time....
Posted by: The Real Neptune at December 09, 2009 10:06 PM (muhdt)
I fell like I"m 150 years old. Does that count?
Posted by: conscious, but incoherent at December 10, 2009 02:03 AM (Vu6sl)
Then you probably remember the beginning of this thread.
What was it like?
Posted by: stuiec at December 09, 2009 10:06 PM (Ate22)
So. You're not going to address my reasoning, you're just going to imply that I'm "racist" again? Still with no evidence?
How very Charles Johnson of you.
>>>So, given that, was it really "racist" - or even unrealistic - to assume that the judge who freed the black criminal was himself black?
Well, it turns out to have been wrong, so is that "realistic"?
One can certainly hold a belief that is realistic at the time they held it - given the information available to them at the time - that later turns out to be wrong. Michael Ledeen and Rush Limbaugh, for instance, were recently duped into believing a hoax 0bama thesis. Given the wording of the "thesis," it was certainly realistic to believe that 0bama did in fact write it, but it turned out that he really didn't.
Posted by: RJ at December 09, 2009 10:08 PM (ADbI4)
Posted by: The Real Neptune at December 09, 2009 10:08 PM (muhdt)
Posted by: ace at December 09, 2009 10:08 PM (jlvw3)
Posted by: someone at December 09, 2009 10:10 PM (njJQD)
Posted by: ace at December 09, 2009 10:11 PM (jlvw3)
I fell like I"m 150 years old. Does that count?
Posted by: conscious, but incoherent at December 10, 2009 02:03 AM (Vu6sl)
Then you probably remember the beginning of this thread.
What was it like?
Posted by: stuiec at December 10, 2009 02:06 AM (Ate22)
It sure in the hell wasn't short, but sweet. Geezus, I thought it would never end. I would agree with Ace on some points and those debating him on other points. I didn't know which way was up. I started questioning my sexuality...nah that didn't happen
Posted by: conscious, but incoherent at December 09, 2009 10:12 PM (Vu6sl)
Sadly, No!
(see what I did there?)
Posted by: DrewM. at December 09, 2009 10:12 PM (FCWQb)
Posted by: ace at December 09, 2009 10:13 PM (jlvw3)
You know I'm not just some pipe-smoking cardigan sweater set pedophile professor making this shit up right?
Dammit, there goes that fantasy. Next Ace will be saying he's not an Ewok....
Posted by: di butler at December 09, 2009 10:13 PM (S3xX1)
I should bookmark it since it's helpful to remind people about you on ocassions like this.
Like you don't coo over it every night and call it "My Precious!"
I agree with Lima about this much. Once you debunk the theory that Brunn is a "white supremacist" then his actual tendancies (anti-Semitism, anti-Christian, etc) make him look like a lefty. So maybe we should back off on this whole "white-supremacist" charge pending actual data. Let's not accept him as a "right-wing extremist" until we know the facts.
Well, we don't want the sort of people on this blog who go around saying things like "maybe we should back off on this whole "white-supremacist" charge pending actual data". I feel so ashamed! Much better to fall in line with whatever narrative the media is selling.
Someone quotes von Brunn in comment 171 and in comments 162 and 165 you deny it's white supremacist language.
Hmm, how do I say anything in comment 162 and 165 about comment 171? I mean, somebody said earlier today ythat I have Q like powers, but it was a joke.
That aside, I stand by my point in that comment thread. If wanting America to remain a majority white country is "white supremacism" then I'm more than happy to be a white supremacist. And you are happy to be one too. It's sort of hard-coded into the definition of "conservative" to oppose change, including that sort of change.
Posted by: flenser at December 09, 2009 10:14 PM (T4MsJ)
How is that even offensive? Economic disparity etc there is no way you can argue that they have assimilated like the Dutch or the Italians or Germans, etc.
It's also kind of dick move isn't it to try to make that an issue when Ace said if you think something, say it serious. Flesner says something something serious. Make a counter-argument, Drew.
Posted by: Amused Observer at December 09, 2009 10:15 PM (Uy/AI)
Posted by: ace at December 09, 2009 10:15 PM (jlvw3)
Posted by: charles emerson winchester IX at December 09, 2009 10:16 PM (Jw5LI)
Because that would almost make up for the pussy shit I had to read from him above.
Ha ha. Ace was promising to "tear me a new asshole". But no luck so far I'm afraid. I remain monoassholed.
But you're welcome to say what you like yourself, aren't you? Don't be shy.
Posted by: flenser at December 09, 2009 10:18 PM (T4MsJ)
Posted by: Guy Fawkes at December 09, 2009 10:18 PM (DIYmd)
Posted by: ace at December 09, 2009 10:19 PM (jlvw3)
I don't think I've ever had a conversation with Flenser.
I've followed your interaction with other commenters. You've never had a conversation with anyone.
Posted by: flenser at December 09, 2009 10:20 PM (T4MsJ)
Posted by: Amused Observer at December 10, 2009 02:15 AM (Uy/AI)
Actually, what's kind of a dick move is accusing me of doing something I didn't. That thread is from a week or so ago before Ace came out with his 'say it serious' idea. Sorry I didn't anticipate it.
Personally, I'm happy to let flenser speak for himself. If you think blacks are an unassimilated minority in this country that's fine. Personally, I'm pretty sure most black families go back further than mine do in this country and they don't represent an immigrant group* that needs to be 'assimilated'. They are part and parcel of the American fabric.
Maybe that's just me.
*I know it's history so I should ignore it but you might have noticed most blacks in this country trace their liniage back to people who "immigrated" to this country under very different circumstances than others.
Posted by: DrewM. at December 09, 2009 10:20 PM (FCWQb)
I find it to be a very agenda-driven anecdote, however.
My anecdote is true.
And what, exactly, is my "agenda?" You didn't even notice that I commented here until last night! How can you possibly know what my "agenda" is?
Ace, I really don't want to argue with you. You're a better writer than me, so it's not exactly a winning proposition for me. Also, we agree on about 90% of the important stuff.
And I actually generally agree with what you wrote in tonight's post. I just thought I'd chime in to try to explain what Kemp may have been thinking with his "joke."
And if I was correct, then Kemp's line of thinking may have been stereotypical and a rush to judgment, but it wasn't exactly an unrealistic assumption, based on the reasons I outlined.
I greatly enjoy this blog, and I will continue to read it even if you continue to be an ass towards me. Well, as long as you don't go full-CJ, that is.
Posted by: RJ at December 09, 2009 10:21 PM (ADbI4)
Posted by: ace at December 09, 2009 10:21 PM (jlvw3)
Personally, I'm pretty sure most black families go back further than mine do in this country and they don't represent an immigrant group* that needs to be 'assimilated'.
That's not a complete analysis. Certainly that heritage exists, but the 60s and 70s brought about a de-assimilation movement which has caused many problems today.
Posted by: geoff at December 09, 2009 10:23 PM (qPXne)
Posted by: Contributor X at December 09, 2009 10:24 PM (IhX2x)
Posted by: ace at December 09, 2009 10:25 PM (jlvw3)
In which they have almost nothing in common with.
Posted by: Guy Fawkes at December 09, 2009 10:27 PM (DIYmd)
Something else from flesner's greatest hits...he thinks blacks are an unassimilated minority.
Holy shit! What sort of person could say such a thing! Is such thought-crime even allowed?
I hate to break this to you but I can find plenty of black people saying the same thing, some in sorrow, some in defiance.
Posted by: flenser at December 09, 2009 10:27 PM (T4MsJ)
I don't really. But it's a legit argument to make, considering that was the point of Jim Crow laws etc - within living memory - designed to keep blacks from assemilating. Re: point that it was last week, you drug it into this thread to box flenser in. That's fine if that's how you roll.
It's a flank attack though, not about whether Ace or Flenser is right on the pc issue (ace is, the rand comment was money). Just cold to bring up an unrelated argument to try to smack him down. Ace is doing that just fine.
*I know it's history so I should ignore it but you might have noticed most blacks in this country trace their linage back to people who "immigrated" to this country under very different circumstances than others.
And?
Posted by: Amused Observer at December 09, 2009 10:28 PM (Uy/AI)
And what, exactly, is my "agenda?" You didn't even notice that I commented here until last night! How can you possibly know what my "agenda" is?
Um. By noticing it? After you were noticed?
Funny paragraph.
Posted by: Jek Porkins (rdb) at December 09, 2009 10:28 PM (MNZJ8)
Posted by: ace at December 09, 2009 10:28 PM (jlvw3)
What about the subsets of whites, though? Can Italians say they have experienced real racism? Irish?
Posted by: The Real Neptune at December 09, 2009 10:29 PM (muhdt)
Two things...
First, flenser's comment was made in a context of dealing with immigrant groups. He was arguing (look at his first comment) that blacks never assimilated....
I'm not sure the US has ever been a true melting pot. There are groups which have been here from the begining which still cling stubbornly to their own separate identity.
Secondly, yes there is a black sub-culture in this country but I think given the longstanding ties of blacks to this country, it's just that, a sub-culture. It's not an alien one that represents something important that needs to be assimilated. You can't assimilate into something you are already a part of.
In cultural terms, I just don't think you can lump blacks in with Mexicans or other recent immigrant groups in terms of 'assimilation'.
Posted by: DrewM. at December 09, 2009 10:30 PM (FCWQb)
He works at the Argument Clinic.
He was so good they promoted him to Section Chief Asshole in a month.
Posted by: Iskandar at December 09, 2009 10:31 PM (u1pln)
Actually, what's kind of a dick move is accusing me of doing something I didn't.
You must be one of the most sensitive people I've ever come across online. Do you see me whimpering and crying about the things you've said about me? Man up, for Christs sake.
Posted by: flenser at December 09, 2009 10:31 PM (T4MsJ)
Posted by: Amused Observer at December 10, 2009 02:28 AM (Uy/AI)
My point in doing that was things don't happen in a vacuum. There's a lot of "I don't mean that" going on here. Well, when you take a person in their totality, it starts to paint a picture.
Posted by: DrewM. at December 09, 2009 10:33 PM (FCWQb)
He was arguing (look at his first comment) that blacks never assimilated....
I have to admit that I don't care enough about flenser's comments to follow his arguments. I was just responding to your comment, which I'll admit was hasty on my part since I'm loathe to bother to put it into the proper context.
I think given the longstanding ties of blacks to this country, it's just that, a sub-culture.
I'm not as optimistic.
Posted by: geoff at December 09, 2009 10:34 PM (qPXne)
not about whether Ace or Flenser is right on the pc issue (ace is, the rand comment was money). Just cold to bring up an unrelated argument to try to smack him down. Ace is doing that just fine.
Have I missed something? Ace has been ignoring me most of the night. And I have not been arguing the race - PC issue.
Posted by: flenser at December 09, 2009 10:34 PM (T4MsJ)
The idea of a monolithic "blackness" is a very odd one, but unfortunately the strength of the lie helps causes it to become truth.
Posted by: someone at December 09, 2009 10:35 PM (njJQD)
But that doesn't mean he's not actually a racist.
Posted by: someone at December 09, 2009 10:36 PM (njJQD)
There's a lot of "I don't mean that" going on here. Well, when you take a person in their totality, it starts to paint a picture.
You're painting a pretty ugly picture yourself, chief. And I have not said "I don't mean that" anywhere.
Posted by: flenser at December 09, 2009 10:37 PM (T4MsJ)
Posted by: The Real Neptune at December 09, 2009 10:37 PM (muhdt)
Posted by: ace at December 09, 2009 10:37 PM (jlvw3)
Posted by: DrewM. at December 10, 2009 02:30 AM (FCWQb) Of course there is a black sub-culture - it has had huge effects on much of popular American culture. The question is what is shared between that sub-culture and the larger American culture. Yes, yes, yes ... the sub-cultures of all groups that are here have the same sort of interaction and various contributions to the larger culture, but THERE IS a larger American culture and the question is what the distance is between that and one of the sub-cultures.
I understand your point that black AMerican culture is just that, black AMERICAN culture, but that doesn't mean that it is necessarily compatible, or well adjusted, with the larger culture. This is a valid point to debate with any sub-culture.
Posted by: progressoverpeace at December 09, 2009 10:37 PM (A46hP)
Posted by: ace at December 09, 2009 10:38 PM (jlvw3)
No, that was poor application on my part of the wide paintbrush.
Posted by: Amused Observer at December 09, 2009 10:39 PM (Uy/AI)
Posted by: GrimJack at December 09, 2009 10:40 PM (d0sH2)
"Whiteness" expands. Nor is the one-drop rule divine decree.
Posted by: someone at December 09, 2009 10:40 PM (njJQD)
Mind you, it's true that a non-racist could say pretty much all the things flenser says.
But that doesn't mean he's not actually a racist.
Well, that's wonderfully kafkaesue. Is that the sum total of your contribition here, other than emaling Ace about me?
It's true that a non-anal wart would look and talk much like someone, But we can't rule out the possiblity that he is in fact an anal ware either.
Posted by: flenser at December 09, 2009 10:41 PM (T4MsJ)
Posted by: GrimJack at December 09, 2009 10:43 PM (d0sH2)
Maybe I just never noticed or I'm too mixed or assimilated.
I'm just having a lot of trouble imagining some guy being like, "Wait -- you're fucking Irish? Sorry man. I don't rent hotel rooms to the damned Irish."
My wife is Irish (full). Her family does drink alot and also a history of epilepsy. I think it offends her when I put the martini shaker in her hand during a seizure. But otherwise, no slurs I know of as truly offensive.
Posted by: Guy Fawkes at December 09, 2009 10:43 PM (DIYmd)
Posted by: ace at December 09, 2009 10:44 PM (jlvw3)
Does anyone pull that whole "We don't serve your kind" tact with anybody, anymore? That's old-school racism in my book. I mean, it's not THAT long ago that store windows had 'No Irish Need Apply" signs, so yeah, obviously some people had some serious race problems with the Irish, and Italians, and Germans (especially during the World Wars).
someone:
The extreme racist fringe wouldn't even consider me white because I'm Jewish, and I'm as lily white as they come.
Posted by: The Real Neptune at December 09, 2009 10:44 PM (muhdt)
Actually, one problem is that the bad side of native "black" culture IS assimilating lots and lots of immigrants who happen to have dark skin.
I guess when you're one of the pure and elect, you can say things like this without ever worrying that it sounds racist. If I said that? Drew would be mentioning it on a thread six months from now.
Posted by: flenser at December 09, 2009 10:45 PM (T4MsJ)
Posted by: Miss'80sBaby at December 09, 2009 10:46 PM (zmiSr)
Posted by: progressoverpeace at December 10, 2009 02:37 AM (A46hP)
It's a valid point but not the one that was made.
Blacks simply aren't another immigrant group and to say they never really assimilated into American culture is simply false.
The issue you raise is a valid one but it seems first we should be on the same page that blacks are Americans, they are woven into the history and fabric of this country. They are not another immigrant group that we have to assimilate.
Posted by: DrewM. at December 09, 2009 10:47 PM (FCWQb)
Posted by: ace at December 09, 2009 10:47 PM (jlvw3)
Posted by: Fa Cube Itches at December 09, 2009 10:47 PM (8MuSQ)
Thank you for the reasoned response. I honestly don't think I've been "pounding the race thing" hard at all, but YMMV.
Here's the thing though. In the "black community," it is pretty standard that the "race thing" be pounded, (and hammered, and smashed, and then nuked) pretty much constantly. That's how you end up with a "church" like 0bama's TUCC (where white people supposedly invented AIDS and crack in order to murder blacks). That's how you end up with "civil rights leaders" like Al Sharpton. That's how you end up with a "Million Man March" (that 0bama attended!) headed by the lunatic Louis Farrakhan who once said that "white people are potential humans; they haven't evolved yet." That's how you end up with laws that openly discriminate against whites ("Affirmative Action") and organizations openly dedicated to advancing the cause of blacks to the exclusion of whites (the NAACP, for example).
But when a white person such as myself merely points out, like, objective facts and stuff, about race differences in crime or voting patterns, we get denounced as "monstrous NAZI KKK racist scum" by the leftists.
Okay, well, that's just what leftists do. That's how they "debate." Ask Mark Steyn. Ask Rush Limbaugh.
But I do NOT expect that sort of treatment from my allies on the right.
If having the gall to state objective facts on controversial, politically-incorrect matters makes me some sort of demonic character, then I guess I'm a demon. John Derbyshire, Ann Coulter, and myself will hopefully have comfortable confines for an eternity in Hades.
Posted by: RJ at December 09, 2009 10:48 PM (ADbI4)
Posted by: ace at December 09, 2009 10:48 PM (jlvw3)
Posted by: ace at December 09, 2009 10:50 PM (jlvw3)
Posted by: Miss'80sBaby at December 09, 2009 10:50 PM (zmiSr)
"I will tell you I am very uncomfortable being around white guys who are pounding the race thing a little too hard."
That's what happens when you stay away too long - the nomenclature changes and you're completely lost. Very well, I'll have to play catch up and assure you that I pound my race thing just hard enough.
Posted by: geoff at December 09, 2009 10:52 PM (qPXne)
Well, right, but they're the extreme racist fringe now, which is my point. And apparently people like Ace would laugh at you if you think it gave you nonwhite Moral Authority...
Anyway, people like Ace will, within a generation or two, proclaim folks of East Asian, Western Hemispheric "Latino" (sorry, non-geographic racial/ethnic terms make me squirm), and subcontinental descent as obviously too "white" to even think about. The one-drop-rule will be the last holdout, but that too will have its day.
Posted by: someone at December 09, 2009 10:52 PM (njJQD)
Blacks simply aren't another immigrant group and to say they never really assimilated into American culture is simply false.
Can I trouble you for some justificaton for the second part of that statement? Because a lot of people, including a lot of black people, have had other ideas. I'd like to hear more than "simply false".
Posted by: flenser at December 09, 2009 10:53 PM (T4MsJ)
Posted by: Miss'80sBaby at December 09, 2009 10:54 PM (zmiSr)
Yeah, and I rarely feel harassed because of my Judaism, and in fact, most people probably don't even know that I'm Jewish because I don't really advertise it, but regardless of that, anti-Semitism exists, no?
Posted by: The Real Neptune at December 09, 2009 10:55 PM (muhdt)
Very well, I'll have to play catch up and assure you that I pound my race thing just hard enough.
But don't pound it too hard and long or you'll go blind.
Posted by: flenser at December 09, 2009 10:55 PM (T4MsJ)
But that doesn't mean he's not actually a racist.
Rather difficult to prove a negative though, amiright?
Posted by: RJ at December 09, 2009 10:57 PM (ADbI4)
Posted by: ace at December 09, 2009 10:57 PM (jlvw3)
While I find it benign, a lot of Germans would be pretty offended by anyone connecting them to Nazism, right? And some people will doubtlessly make that connection. So yeah, ethnic baggage still carries some weight, even among us monolithic white folk.
*for full disclosure, I'm a Jew of German, Russian, Polish and Hungarian descent*
Posted by: The Real Neptune at December 09, 2009 10:58 PM (muhdt)
Posted by: Guy Fawkes at December 09, 2009 10:58 PM (DIYmd)
Posted by: chemjeff at December 09, 2009 10:58 PM (F+U5/)
Posted by: ace at December 09, 2009 11:00 PM (jlvw3)
How about Euro-mutts like me? Can we trash my type?
You're a white male, right? I think Ace has had his say on that topic.
Posted by: flenser at December 09, 2009 11:02 PM (T4MsJ)
Of course.
they are woven into the history and fabric of this country.
Black American culture has had some of the more profound effects on popular American culture, and globally, too. It's been disproportionately successful in many areas and a pretty decent wealth creator for many.
They are not another immigrant group that we have to assimilate.
Posted by: DrewM. at December 10, 2009 02:47 AM (FCWQb)
The question is how different it might be and what its orientation is with respect to the larger culture. There are many different considerations than for an immigrant group, but it is a question of assimilation, nonetheless. You seem to think that culture and sub-culture are close enough to be well outside of the threshold of "assimilation", but I would disagree. It turns on issues of how the culture looks at language, education, competition, individualism (as our government is the only individualistic one on Earth), ... It's these aspects that people usually refer to when they talk of assimilation, so I consider the word appropriate - certainly not a big deal of any sort.
Posted by: progressoverpeace at December 09, 2009 11:03 PM (A46hP)
Posted by: ace at December 09, 2009 11:03 PM (jlvw3)
Posted by: GrimJack at December 09, 2009 11:03 PM (d0sH2)
Jews actually seem to be going through a serious de-assimilationist process, reasserting strong Jewish identity and being more serious about Jewish-Jewish marriage.
Or as I put it:
I'm not sure the US has ever been a true melting pot. There are groups which have been here from the begining which still cling stubbornly to their own separate identity.
Posted by: flenser at December 09, 2009 11:05 PM (T4MsJ)
Ace, they are going to get picked on anyway. They're Ewok kids after all.
Posted by: chemjeff at December 09, 2009 11:05 PM (F+U5/)
Posted by: The Real Neptune at December 09, 2009 11:05 PM (muhdt)
Posted by: ace at December 09, 2009 11:07 PM (jlvw3)
Posted by: ace at December 09, 2009 11:08 PM (jlvw3)
"To be honest, I think Asians are white"
Well, the Nazis did consider the Japanese to be honorary Aryans.
Posted by: Fa Cube Itches at December 09, 2009 11:08 PM (8MuSQ)
Posted by: Barnum Bailey Circus at December 09, 2009 11:08 PM (bvDV5)
Yes, I have a dream. And it involves noting that nobody gets Moral Authority to do racist crap.
Posted by: someone at December 09, 2009 11:09 PM (njJQD)
Posted by: vai2112 at December 09, 2009 11:10 PM (pkOAj)
Not to be an ass, but you're factually wrong. Whites (actually, Caucasians) are white (or Caucasian). Asians are Asian.
See here:
http://tinyurl.com/5v8de8
Anyway, Asians probably face more overt racism than any other group in the United States. Both Shaq and Rosie O'Donnell have openly mocked them (based on stereotypes). The recent movie "The Hangover" mocks them. The protagonist in Gran Torino, also a recent movie, mocks them. It's a helluva lot more accepted to make fun of Asians than it is any other racial group that I can think of. (Except maybe whites.)
Asians just accept it, though, so it's considered "socially acceptable" to make fun of them. Blacks would not accept that level of ridicule. Nor would Hispanics.
It's all rather Orwellian, if you ask me.
Posted by: RJ at December 09, 2009 11:11 PM (ADbI4)
Posted by: wherestherum at December 09, 2009 11:12 PM (gofDd)
Posted by: wherestherum at December 09, 2009 11:14 PM (gofDd)
Posted by: ace at December 10, 2009 03:00 AM (jlvw3)
The Torah spends much time warning Jews against the great dangers of assimilation. That doesn't mean to be pricks to anyone, but just to always maintain the really important laws which keep the tribe bound together. The Shabbat is the most important of these, but most American Jews have long ago dispensed with that. The Torah warns that that is pretty bad stuff.
Other than that, Jews work well in the US because Judaism is the original individualistic system. The US is, in many ways, the political equivalent of the new Judaism. A unique, individualistic structure defined in a few documents, given a land, by G-d (Manifest Destiny), over which to apply that structure. And the American structure has been as beneficial for the world, which makes it all the more amazing that people want to destroy it. At least, I look at it like this.
Posted by: progressoverpeace at December 09, 2009 11:16 PM (A46hP)
You were doing well before you missed that this is exactly WHY people want to destroy it.
Posted by: someone at December 09, 2009 11:18 PM (njJQD)
Posted by: some guy at December 09, 2009 11:18 PM (AJreE)
Posted by: someone at December 10, 2009 03:18 AM (njJQD)
Very true. Thanks.
Posted by: progressoverpeace at December 09, 2009 11:20 PM (A46hP)
Posted by: GrimJack at December 09, 2009 11:20 PM (d0sH2)
Posted by: ace at December 09, 2009 11:22 PM (jlvw3)
Your race pessimism seems pretty confined to one particular race, seeing as how you're starting to erect the gravestone of anti-Semitism as noted a few comments back.
Posted by: The Real Neptune at December 09, 2009 11:27 PM (muhdt)
Posted by: ace at December 09, 2009 11:28 PM (jlvw3)
"You know who should get degrees in Black Studies? Very rich white kids with lots of family connections and money to burn."
They do. Then they spout shit about how Hannibal was a great black leader. He has to be black because he's from Africa, you know.
Tuition refunds should be in order.
Posted by: Fa Cube Itches at December 09, 2009 11:29 PM (8MuSQ)
Posted by: ace at December 09, 2009 11:30 PM (jlvw3)
Why the hell aren't young blacks being steered into math science accounting and engineering, like Indian immigrant kids are?
Don't get me started. There are a number of programs trying to entice women and minorities into math, engineering, and the hard sciences. But the number of Americans in these programs continues to fall, because the core demographic (white males) has declined drastically in those fields. Rather than trying to assess that problem and fix it, the PC approach is to ignore white males and recruit among other demographics.
There's not a problem with young blacks - it's a problem with young Americans.
Posted by: geoff at December 09, 2009 11:33 PM (qPXne)
Posted by: wherestherum at December 09, 2009 11:33 PM (gofDd)
Posted by: Fa Cube Itches at December 09, 2009 11:39 PM (8MuSQ)
Posted by: braininahat at December 09, 2009 11:40 PM (k6Bis)
Posted by: Rodent Liberation Front at December 09, 2009 11:41 PM (dQdrY)
Posted by: ace at December 09, 2009 11:41 PM (jlvw3)
You know, like Communism in the 70s.
Posted by: someone at December 09, 2009 11:41 PM (njJQD)
One crazy idea I had lately involved the DC school district.
They briefly escaped the lockdown via a soon-to-die voucher system.
There's really a trivial number (from a purely numerical side!) involved - like 1000 scholarships given to inner city kids.
What if conservatives organized fundraising for continuing the voucher system? (The one key element I'd personally avoid is locking it to 'black' as opposed to 'poor resident of DC.')
The amount of money needed to pay for -scholarships-, which needn't be full-ride necessarily, should be entirely doable. (Not "we" as in just-this-smart-military-blog, we as in non-Leftists.) This isn't something we could manage everywhere, but doing it in DC immediately after Obama -dropped- it....
This is one of the few topics where middle-class Americans of African decent, Republicans, and even Conservatives are on the same page. (So long as it isn't government money.) I can't think of a downside to fundraising for "Lincoln Voucher Fund of DC."
It would be like a potentially permanent hole below the waterline if done solidly.
Posted by: Al at December 09, 2009 11:43 PM (0lyUI)
You know, were I a total dick, I'd throw the rhetoric you used on me back in your face. You know, how brave I was to get over 'Jim Crown' and all that noise. I could say how brave you are, as a 'goy,' to proudly declare the death of American anti-Semitism.
But, you know, I'm not a total dick.
Posted by: The Real Neptune at December 09, 2009 11:43 PM (muhdt)
Posted by: runninrebel at December 09, 2009 11:43 PM (i3PJU)
"Apart from stuff like being picked on at school, and that kind of thing, I don't know."
And being gunned down at the El Al ticket counter at LAX, or sidewalks in Skokie, etc.
Posted by: Fa Cube Itches at December 09, 2009 11:43 PM (8MuSQ)
What about the subtle anti-Semitism used to convince people that those Israelis are just a bunch of vile babykillers and we should probably look the other way when Palestinians blow up their nightclubs?
You can't just wash your hands of that because 'oh, Jews in America are rich so they won't care!'
Posted by: The Real Neptune at December 09, 2009 11:46 PM (muhdt)
Posted by: ace at December 09, 2009 11:46 PM (jlvw3)
Posted by: ace at December 09, 2009 11:49 PM (jlvw3)
Posted by: ace at December 09, 2009 11:51 PM (jlvw3)
Posted by: wherestherum at December 09, 2009 11:51 PM (gofDd)
Because their kids will soon turn "black".
Seriously, it's tragic in a way (cultural homogenization, loss of patrimony) even lefties could see if they weren't basically racist.
"I'm here to let him know I work the door at this club"
Yeah, then you should have linked that Tiger post I tipped earlier before Insty scooped you...
Posted by: someone at December 09, 2009 11:51 PM (njJQD)
Posted by: runninrebel at December 09, 2009 11:52 PM (i3PJU)
I said being called 'Kike' to my face doesn't bother me, which is true. The kind of subtle, socially acceptable anti-Semitism that is trying to slowly enable the destruction of Israel definitely bothers me.
But again, as I stated way, way above, it's the endgame that bothers me, not the thought process as much. I don't really care why Pat Buchanan hates Israel so much, I just know that he hates Israel, which to me is dangerous.
But I don't like that in places of 'diversity,' like college campuses, it's perfectly kosher to be violently anti-Israel and then claim 'No, of course I have nothing against Jews.'
I guess, in the end, I have more respect for the guy who calls me a kike. At least that guy is honest about his hatred.
Posted by: The Real Neptune at December 09, 2009 11:56 PM (muhdt)
1778: Whitey got it pretty good from University of Michigan law school, too. Supreme Court case and everything.
Posted by: Fa Cube Itches at December 09, 2009 11:57 PM (8MuSQ)
They do. Then they spout shit about how Hannibal was a great black leader. He has to be black because he's from Africa, you know.
Tuition refunds should be in order.
It's funny because it's true. I wonder what percentage of black Americans believe that the ancient Egyptians were "black?"
Ramesses I and Ramesses II both had red hair. (Google it.) They were about as "black" as JFK.
But if you show up at one of noted civil right leader Al Sharpton's National Action Network "protest" events and have the temerity to point this fact out...well, I just hope you have your dentist on speed-dial.
Posted by: RJ at December 09, 2009 11:57 PM (ADbI4)
Posted by: devilish at December 10, 2009 12:00 AM (vyRPu)
Posted by: devilish at December 10, 2009 04:00 AM (vyRPu)
Maybe we could start off small and try the little things like separate drinking fountains and restrooms and then move on to entire schools and neighborhoods.
I think South Africa experimented with that kind of forward thinking and progressive social justice, does anyone here know how that turned out?
Posted by: Jim in San Diego at December 10, 2009 12:06 AM (F09Uo)
Posted by: Rodent Liberation Front at December 10, 2009 12:11 AM (dQdrY)
Posted by: runninrebel at December 10, 2009 12:13 AM (i3PJU)
Posted by: wherestherum at December 10, 2009 12:14 AM (gofDd)
1784: Nah, then we'll kill each other over religion, ethnic subgroups, etc.
Either humans develop a hive mind, or we accept a certain level of discord
Posted by: Fa Cube Itches at December 10, 2009 12:15 AM (8MuSQ)
Posted by: Rodent Liberation Front at December 10, 2009 04:11 AM (dQdrY)
I'm not really a 'newsies' kind of guy, but I'm sure if that plan went sideways, we all would have heard about it by now.
Posted by: Jim in San Diego at December 10, 2009 12:21 AM (F09Uo)
Posted by: ace at December 10, 2009 12:22 AM (jlvw3)
"Boy, that Option One is really, really too much to bear, eh?"
Hey now, ethnic cleansing has to be the better option, since cleanliness is next to godliness and all that...
Posted by: Fa Cube Itches at December 10, 2009 12:31 AM (8MuSQ)
I'm pretty sure devilish was using some form of sarcasm there Ace.
I get your point Ace, and I think you deserve some kind of an award for staying with this thing for so long, but I think what you inadvertently did was 'write the tax code' for racial harmony here at AoSHQ. The more detailed and inclusive you make it, the more loopholes/uncertainty you introduce, and then the fun starts.
Be nice, don't make cheap racial shots that are broad in scope and knock it off with the homo jokes that stopped being funny 40 years ago.
I get it.
Posted by: Jim in San Diego at December 10, 2009 12:32 AM (F09Uo)
Posted by: macbrooks at December 10, 2009 12:35 AM (sjvKF)
Posted by: runninrebel at December 10, 2009 12:36 AM (i3PJU)
Not well.
Of course, the current regime openly discriminates against its white inhabitants, and the rates of murder, assault, and (especially) rape are among the highest in the world.
Oh, and the ruling ANC openly allies itself with the Communists. And they are having difficulty keeping the lights on:
http://tinyurl.com/ycbtzp2
And the current President is a corrupt polygamous racist rapist:
http://tinyurl.com/oqwy58
Other than that, though, diversity has proven itself to be a strength.
Posted by: RJ at December 10, 2009 12:46 AM (ADbI4)
And their internet lost a race with a homing pigeon for a 4 Gig file:
Sept. 12, 2009 -- Johannesburg, South Africa
This week, a South African call-center business, frustrated by persistently slow Internet speeds, decided to use a carrier pigeon named Winston to transfer 4 gigabytes of data between two of its offices, just 50 miles apart.
Posted by: progressoverpeace at December 10, 2009 01:03 AM (A46hP)
His hair doesn't look red to me.
The only black person I have ever seen with red hair was a black girl named Shaneefwa who accidentally dropped her horse hair weave into some cherry Kool-Aid.
Okay, fuck it, you can ban me now.
Posted by: RJ at December 10, 2009 01:03 AM (ADbI4)
Posted by: Bill in Baltimore at December 10, 2009 01:07 AM (5xAtS)
I'm just saying that there has never been a moment in my life, personally, where I got the vibe that someone was secretly mouthing the words "Irish trash" or something.
Posted by: ace at December 10, 2009 02:48 AM (jlvw3)
Live a few years in the UK and sooner or later you'll pick up that while they treat you decently, you're "one of those people". Not vicious outside of some jokes or a crack from a drunken soccer fan, but an annoying condescension and doors to the best jobs that somehow never get unlocked.
Posted by: kbdabear at December 10, 2009 01:38 AM (sYxEE)
There, I did my part towards the 2k count.
I'm goiing back to sleep because 'the Won's' Oslo speech didn't knock me out.
Posted by: Gmac at December 10, 2009 01:41 AM (DRlPW)
Sweet fancy moses, that's just plain vicious
Posted by: kbdabear at December 10, 2009 01:52 AM (sYxEE)
What? Can't two gay guys just hang out and have beers without blowing each other?
There's a solution to the problem of trying to top the next guy when he's already reached the top. The anticlimactic joke. An eye roll inspiring joke is the perfect response when the peak of funny has been reached. At that point go with a groan worthy riff that would make even the most prolific abuser of puns roll his eyes. When the peak of funny has been reached Neil Hamburger becomes the model for how to keep the funny train rolling.
Posted by: StickeeNotes at December 10, 2009 02:27 AM (oaE0+)
Posted by: Theodore Sturgeon at December 10, 2009 02:31 AM (SwkdU)
Posted by: ace at December 10, 2009 02:52 AM (jlvw3)
So two weathermen walk into a gay bar...oh wait. Not funny. I got nuthin'.
Posted by: FishFearMe at December 10, 2009 03:58 AM (4YamK)
Posted by: Che Pizza at December 10, 2009 04:15 AM (4iIhs)
Posted by: Che Pizza at December 10, 2009 04:21 AM (4iIhs)
That's not a very long post. Really. Jeff G could've done twice as long, using only one sentence~!
;D
Posted by: serr8d at December 10, 2009 04:23 AM (rR+XF)
way to much to do, about a few hurt feelings, But as they "The Golden Rule"
"He who has the gold makes the rules"
Posted by: Btesh at December 10, 2009 05:08 AM (XfbyH)
Maybe I just never noticed or I'm too mixed or assimilated.
I'm just having a lot of trouble imagining some guy being like, "Wait -- you're fucking Irish? Sorry man. I don't rent hotel rooms to the damned Irish."
Posted by: ace at December 10, 2009 02:38 AM (jlvw3)
I used to get called a rotten mick all the time when I was growing up. But that was just from my dago mom. But when my grandparents came here from Ireland (circa WWI) they faced a lot of prejudice for being Irish. My grandfather by the way joined the US Army and was a doughboy over there.
Posted by: TheQuietman at December 10, 2009 05:24 AM (1Jaio)
Posted by: SlightlyAjar at December 10, 2009 06:03 AM (Ow8zp)
I read all 1300 posts since my last post.
No lesbo porn.
Once again, I hate you all. The Ewoks of Endor shall pay a terrible price for this.
Posted by: SGT Dan at December 10, 2009 06:11 AM (GgXZc)
Really, Ace? I mean, Wow! Really?!
You actually thought this thread would attract only 200 comments?
Posted by: FireHorse at December 10, 2009 06:20 AM (Vl5GH)
OK, that (#1820) wasn't fair. You said "I hope this only goes for like 200." Hope. You never said that you thought it would be around 200.
But you know what they say: Wish in one hand and shit in the other, and before you know it you'll have government-run health care.
Posted by: FireHorse at December 10, 2009 06:24 AM (Vl5GH)
I love AOS!! Even after working the nightshift and plowing through 1821 comments.
Posted by: Machinehead at December 10, 2009 06:33 AM (937VA)
Posted by: Barney F'ing Frank at December 10, 2009 07:05 AM (/Mla1)
-- On the other hand, its pretty darn obvious half the people here are just dying to throw the N word at her, so you can still say you're right. --
I'll go ahead and throw it...
Baldilocks....
How you doin', Neighbor?
Posted by: charles emerson winchester IX at December 10, 2009 01:40 AM (Jw5LI)
No, no. How YOU doin'?
Posted by: baldilocks at December 10, 2009 07:10 AM (tAwrV)
Posted by: The Drunken Conservative at December 10, 2009 07:11 AM (iaWNX)
Posted by: Bozo the clone at December 10, 2009 07:32 AM (kKbZi)
Posted by: The Real Neptune at December 10, 2009 03:05 AM (muhdt)
The two categories are not mutually exclusive. Genetically Asian, ethnically/spiritually Jewish girls exist and can even be manufactured via conversion. You can go to Kaifeng in China to find an authentic Asian Jewish girl, or you can go to Israel and find an authentic Asian Jewish girl transplanted from Kaifeng.
Posted by: stuiec at December 10, 2009 07:59 AM (Ate22)
It's there, but limited.
Posted by: ace at December 10, 2009 03:41 AM (jlvw3)
Jews, Irish, Italians, Poles are no longer hated in the USA for being dirty, ignorant immigrants. But it's possible to hate on different ethnic groups for other reasons.
Jews can always get treated strangely in a Christian-majority country, simply for refusing to accept the majority religion. Some even say that the modern flavor of anti-Semitism (the kind making its rise on the Left) came out of the anti-Christian fervor of the French Revolution: the Revolutionaries, and later Napoleon, became angry when the Jews whom they'd liberated from the oppression of the Church obstinately clung to their own religion. The famous quote is, "For the Jews as individuals, everything; for the Jews as a people, nothing!"
And of course success breeds its own resentments. Being successful doesn't necessarily immunize a group from hatred, because demogogues are always out there ready to portray the successful group as invidiously controlling everything and keeping the regular folks down. You should know that while Jews in America were horrified that Bernie Madoff stole so much money from Jewish charities and institutions, we were also secretly a bit relieved that he hadn't exclusively targeted Gentiles - because unlike the "backlash against Muslims," the backlash against greedy Jews has historical precedent.
And Israel's success has severely affected American Jewry. Before 1967, Israel was the scrappy underdog and still a potential Socialist state, thus a darling of the Left. After 1967, and especially after the reassertion of capitalism in Israel, the Left saw their best hope in the PLO replacing Israel with a Communist Arab entity. Israel was transformed in Leftist propaganda into the oppressor state and the Palestinians were forgiven their suicide bombs and Qassam rockets in the name of resistance.
It's worth remembering that at the turn of the 20th century, the group of Jews that felt they most belonged as part of their country were German Jews - deeply woven into the fabric of German society and culture, assimilated and respected. It's amazing to note what a massive economic crisis managed to do to that community's status in the Fatherland. (And look, what do we have here in America as we enter the second decade of the 21st century?)
Posted by: stuiec at December 10, 2009 08:20 AM (Ate22)
Posted by: devilish at December 10, 2009 08:57 AM (vyRPu)
Posted by: devilish at December 10, 2009 08:57 AM (vyRPu)
Posted by: t-bird at December 10, 2009 09:14 AM (FcR7P)
Posted by: MDr at December 10, 2009 09:18 AM (ucq49)
Posted by: (Sotto Voce) at December 10, 2009 10:13 AM (8eiR6)
Posted by: TheRedDianthus at December 10, 2009 10:19 AM (ErOeR)
What'd ya expect. Ewoks always come up short.
Posted by: Iblis at December 10, 2009 10:26 AM (9221z)
Posted by: Tommy Gunn at December 10, 2009 10:50 AM (rQTdM)
When we were children, we noticed people that were different than ourselves, and when we were angry or felt insecure by them we used verbal slurs to hurt them back ("you're fat!", "you're ugly!" "stringbean!", "shorty!", "wet-back!", "kike!"...)
But as adults we are suppose to realize that, just because someone looks different or is a different religion than us, that doesn't make them bad or evil, it just makes them different.
And the theorem to that is, if this different looking/nationality/sex/religion person is an asshole, that doesn't make their whole race/sex/religion/nationality assholes, just that person.
Judge people by their words and actions, not their differences. Assholes are Assholes, whether they be Black, White, Brown, Asian, Christian or Muslim, they are assholes.
So you don't need to hurt Andrew "Asshole" Sullivan by calling him a dick eating faggot, just call him an asshole, because that is what he is, not because he is gay.
I extremely dislike Obama, not because he is the "First Black President" but because he is a fucking commie.
Mr Minority
Posted by: Mr Minority at December 10, 2009 01:29 PM (FQq+K)
I don't know if you are still checking this post, but you said above that you really don't know who most of the sock puppeters are. There's actually a group on Facebook for teh morons. You should check it out. Then you could REALLY know who some of us are...
Oh, and if you are still reading this thread...FIX UR DAM RSS FEED! kthxbai
syb
Posted by: Sheik Yur Bouty at December 10, 2009 01:53 PM (ON1+f)
"point taken. your place, your rules. "
this one?
"tldr"
"why are you still lecturing all of us lowly racists?"
i think the original was well put. in fact you could have hit all the nuances in half the space that one took.
this one sounds like you feel bad for telling people not to piss on your carpet. you really don't have to feel bad for telling people not to piss on your carpet. that just makes the carpet pissers roll their eyes at you and move out to the kitchen to piss on your linoleum.
Posted by: jummy at December 10, 2009 06:03 PM (G5Rcp)
Clean and innocuous enough?
Posted by: Blue Hen at December 10, 2009 06:36 PM (1O93r)
Posted by: crystal at December 10, 2009 06:37 PM (KVSUW)
Posted by: crystal at December 10, 2009 06:39 PM (KVSUW)
Posted by: banhammer thread at December 10, 2009 07:24 PM (PD1tk)
Call me racist inclined from this point forward.
Posted by: Barbarian at December 10, 2009 07:29 PM (EL+OC)
Posted by: Mudshark at December 10, 2009 09:49 PM (DlLyT)
Posted by: Rodent Liberation Front at December 10, 2009 11:14 PM (dQdrY)
Couldn't read all the posts, but re this:
all these charged words that hurt white people
There is only one charged word that hurts this white person: racist.
It's a fighting word (or at least an arguing word) for me.
Thanks,
Tom DeGisi
Posted by: Tom DeGisi at December 11, 2009 11:30 AM (+q3dR)
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tldr
Posted by: Dang Straights at December 09, 2009 01:32 PM (Haq+B)