1
And so it begins.

2

Sarah knows the obvious. North America used to be one big glacier, so obviously there is warming, but there were no factories or suv's then so it happened naturally. Since then there have been warming and cooling cycles, pay close attention to the word "cyclical" as she used it on the Laura Ingrham show today when discussing this with Laura.

She will never, not in a million years sign onto any copenhagen style deal. Every word out her mouth is that it will harm our economy.

YOU HAVE NOTHING TO WORRY ABOUT HERE AT ALL.

3 Apparently, bitch-slapping Al Gore exists, too.

Thankfully.

4 Umm..Al, don't mess with Palin. Just sayin'

5

My ideological purity on the matter rests mostly on my complete distrust of the motivations of the AGW movement, i.e. massive wealth redistribution.

They're just the same lying-ass commies to me they've always been.

6
The guvnah was on Laura Ingraham today and sounded damn smart. She could easily crush Gore in a debate if it were done fairly.

Gore's running around saying some wacky shit that should be easily refutable. I mean this is not even being challenged in the leftwing media:

"The North Polar ice cap is melting before our very eyes. It's been the size of the continental United States for most of the last three million years and now, suddenly, 40 percent of it's gone, and the rest of it is expected to disappear within five, 10, 15 years."

The polar ice cap will be gone in 10 to 15 years. Imagine that. Wow.


 

7 Hey, don't look at me! I just have to trail his fat ass around

8

Sure, ace.  But I draw the line at sitting on a couch next to Nancy Pelosi for some braindead commercial.

Ross Douhat can KMA too.

9 One question I would love to ask Al Gore: Looking back at 2000, you were the Vice-President to a fairly popular President, the economy was good and, for the most part, America was at peace. Under similiar circumstances, George H.W. Bush won in a landslide. Does that not make your effort the worst Presidential Campaign in the history of our Republic?

10

9: hey, what about me?

11 ... now Sarah gets to light the fuse.

12 #9 Plus, he lost to an idiot.   All the right people told me GW was stupid.

13 She said on Laura Ingraham today that she was open to debating Al Manbearpig.

14

"The North Polar ice cap is melting before our very eyes. It's been the size of the continental United States for most of the last three million years and now, suddenly, 40 percent of it's gone, and the rest of it is expected to disappear within five, 10, 15 years."

I heard that yesterday and wondered outloud if Al Gore was a betting man. Cause, I'd put all the kids college funds up on that one.

15 4 Palin has this nailed.  Pitch perfect.

Posted by: right at December 10, 2009 05:36 PM (EquV1)

Exactly.  I don't get that she's hedging or mincing at all.  I hear, "No tanking the economy for a 'maybe'".   

I'm kind of sad.  I really wanted to grow peaches on my acreage in Fort McMurray.  Seriously.

16 12: hey now! I can't handle that much weight!

17 Rasmussen has it at 43/43 for each today. We've had a nice swing towards sanity, but we're not there yet. And I'm with you on the "hold" strategy for politicians along with a full-course serving of ClimateGate Whupass from non-politicians.

18

10 / Mutt: the worst Presidential Campaign in the history of our Republic?

hahahahahahhahahahahhahahahaha ! ... aYup!

19 Yeah, climate change exists in the sense that we have cyclical changes (thanks to Purple Avenger for that posting and link).  But to say with some certainty that a warming period or an ice age is going to start five weeks from next Tuesday at 4 pm Eastern Time (or was that Alaskan Time?) is ludicrous.  That's what Lorenz' simple computer program ( I don't think he actually thought of it as a model) back in the 60's should have taught us (well, some of us picked up on it).

20 She seems to say she does believe man's activities may be affecting the environment, but then shoots down Copenhagen on cost/benefit principles.

They're not mutually exclusive positions...  European ships traveling through the St. Lawrence Seaway introduced zebra mussels to the Great Lakes--there's no sand left on the Wisconsin beaches of Lake Michigan, just piles and piles of zebra mussel shells (I exaggerate for effect, but not much).  But that doesn't mean those ships are causing "global warming" much less that taxing their fuel is going to "save the Planet."

21 I am Simon Pure on the notion that we must not destroy the world economy just so that a bunch of worrywort eco-twits can vaguely feel like they're saving a tree or a polar bear.

Why all the hate Ace? I bet you fly too.

22
The latest favorite rejoinder by the Warmists: You believe man can't cause AGW because the ice ages occured before man was around. Forest fires occurred before man was around, so you believe man can't cause forest fires?

This is who we're losing to.

23

Al, imagine sticking your dick in the blender, and pressing the "Puree" button.  That's kind of what you're doing, slick.

24 She could debate Alchemist Gore but it would be useless.  He'd lie through his teeth, the media won't call him on it, Sarah will be 100% correct but the press will take anything she says that's open to interpretation and attribute the least credible meaning to it.  It's not like we live in a society of objective, intelligent people.

25

17 hey now! I can't handle that much weight

You're getting Bored for Gore... boy.

26

Incidentally, I don't know if Sarah Palin really believes in AGW to the extent she says. She seems to say she does believe man's activities may be affecting the environment, but then shoots down Copenhagen on cost/benefit principles.

Does she really believe in it as much as she says?

She talks about this in the book, in some detail.  In fact she quotes Ann Coulter on it in general.  Her view is almost identical to mine.  Maybe something somewhere affects something, but it all takes a backseat to energy needs, security needs, etc. 

27 Even with all this stuff being revealed, it's at 49%.

Meh.  If a scandal falls in the snow and the MSM won't report it, did it really get revealed?

28 The thing is she says she believes in climate change not AGW. Climate chamge is obvious, and unstoppable since we have only the smallest input in it

29 Exactly. I don't get that she's hedging or mincing at all. I hear, "No tanking the economy for a 'maybe'". ********* I think there's also room for talking about: Suppose the worst of the alarmists are correct. Even then, would anything the administration, Congress or the wankers in Copenhagen are doing actually make sense? How about some conservatives make this sort of a point, as I've cut-and-pasted from somewhere else I posted it: Suppose the worst alarmists are right. If they are, then we best realize that thereÂ’s not a damn thing we can do about it, because thereÂ’s no way that China, India, Brazil, or a few dozen other countries are going to slow down their carbon emissions, regardless of the actions of the US and Europe. Which means that the AGW apocalypse is unavoidable. But if that's the case, then we really cannot, as a nation, risk harming our economy or weakening ourselves strategically in an empty gesture. WeÂ’re going to need all the wealth, power and influence we can muster if weÂ’re to adapt and win in the post-apocalyptic reality. Maybe it's time for conservatives to say, "You're probably wrong. But even if you're right, your 'solution' stands no chance at all of working," and present conservative solutions to AGW, several of which would obviously be to devolve power from the federal to the local levels, which are far more adaptive and responsive, and to push for a stronger dollar, in spite of the size of our federal debt, and for goodness sake, to stop going further into debt. We'll need to encourage innovation through reductions in corporate and capital gains tax levels. We'll need to match China's coal power with our own nuclear power and domestically drilled oil. We'll need to relax regulations on genetically modified crops, to increase production on possibly fewer arable acres. We'll need to free up federal lands for sale and relocation of our population, which will be fleeing famine, drought, rising sea levels.... You get the idea.

30 Or maybe I should say, "Noticing how human activities can affect some aspects of local environments doesn't mandate a belief in anthropogenic global warming."

31

err #13 is directed to #10's comment.

David Frum isn't even on the map anymore.  In a few years he will take Gergen's spot on those roundtable-of-clueless-conventional-wisdom shows where he will (as Gergen does now) wring his hands in anguish over the latest made-up Republican strawman.

32 But I draw the line at sitting on a couch next to Nancy Pelosi for some braindead commercial.

Ross Douhat can KMA too.

Add Grahamnasty to that KMA list as well.

33 I trust Sarah on this. No way in hell would she sell us out for some bullshit cap and tax racket.

34 Charles Johnson should have a post up at any moment proving she's a racist, creationist, Christianist, white supremacist climate-change denier because ... well, just because.

Those who disagree will be banned.

35 Tiger Woods' mass humpings account for all the warming of the last thousand years. If Tiger woods would stop nailing waitresses, we would go into a mini ice age or Flaccid Period. So keep up the good work Tiger.

36 So AGW is "settled science" b/c of 20 years of "research". When did the scientific method get tossed on its ass? Oh wait, that makes me a "denier". So be it. I deny the "research" because at best it is flawed, and far more likely, intentionally contrived to reach a certain result. Which does not make it science, it makes it bullshit. This AGW bullshit is a cult, sorta like Scientology, just with less credibility and no hot chics.

37

She seems to say she does believe man's activities may be affecting the environment, but then shoots down Copenhagen on cost/benefit principles.

I agree with Heather Radish @ 21. I think you can make the statement that man made items can impact the earth's condition. You can also make the statement that, as humans, we have responsibility to be good stewards of  God's creation. However, that doesn't mean tax and crap is a good idea. It doesn't mean that government can solve it.

P.J. O'Rourke I think best illustrated this point. He was discussing the fact that in the early 1800s, there was a problem because alot of homeowners used Whale Oil for illumination and whales were become scarcer and scarcer. The solution was the development of oil and petroleum as a source of energy. Technology, driven by a private market with risk takers and private capital investments solved the problem. Not a government commission or plan.

38 And I don't think "Drill, Baby, Drill" is the motto of an AGW squish.

39 Man. I gotta tell ya. Ace's posts are getting into the realm of the short story.

40

Incidentally, I don't know if Sarah Palin really believes in AGW to the extent she says. She seems to say she does believe man's activities may be affecting the environment, but then shoots down Copenhagen on cost/benefit principles.

I use this same hedge when discussing GW with someone whose views I don't know. Palin is speaking to a much larger audience, so it makes sense to offer a moderate point of view while leading people towards the light of reason.

If you just start smacking away with a 2x4 from the start, you'll likely turn off more people than you'll convince.

41

But Ace, she said this:

"I just donÂ’t think we can primarily blame manÂ’s activities for the earthÂ’s cyclical weather changes."

She DOES believe in, and is a witness to, naturally-occurring GW.

 

42 >>But I draw the line at sitting on a couch next to Nancy Pelosi for some braindead commercial. yes that seemed to me to be a Bridge Too Far. That went from strategic horseshit to actually, seriously rallying the AGW forces.

43 Don't even kid yourself, ace. You're not nearly up to my level.

44 Global Warming is real, it's been occuring for 10,000 years. BTW we are due for a new iceage.

45 ace at December 10, 2009 05:50 PM (jlvw3)

I still think it was smart. It lets Newt not get the stupid "denier" label attached to him and allow him to propose free market solutions to the problem they pretend exists. The only solutions offered now are statist ones. It's not too shabby to have a guy proposing free market answers.

46 >>>"I just donÂ’t think we can primarily blame manÂ’s activities for the earthÂ’s cyclical weather changes." yes but it's a bit of a fudge and she makes noises about it elsewhere, about how concerned she is about Alaska losing its beautiful glaciers or whatever. No doubt, credit to her, she is definitely one of the closest to right on this issue. Inhofe beats her, easily, but among others... she is one of the best. But I am saying, if you check, she is still throwing some fudge and horseshit around. Which I heartily approve of.

47

sock off.

 

Ace:

regarding #44: if Newt had been sitting next to Madame Speaker in order to hit her with a pie, would that have been OK?

48

Ah yes, the 4 fundemental forces of the universe included in the Standard Model of physics.

Strong, electromagnetic, weak, gravity, and anthropogenic climate change.

Oh wait... that's 5...

I think electromagnetic has been shown to be a function of climate change and dropped.

49

Global Warming is real, it's been occuring for 10,000 years. BTW we are due for a new iceage.

That is funny because back in the 70s, many of the current global warming advocates were actually arguing that pollution was going to cause global freezing. Again, as now, unless we did something, we were all going to die.

50 "being told I want to lose on these issues because that will keep getting me invited to cocktail parties I have never in my entire life been invited to." Yeah, but let's be honest. You're still holding out hope, aren't you?

51 I ask the Warmists a pretty simple question:

What about WWII?

Daily 1,000 four engine bomber raids dropping fuckloads of bombs on cities, factories, cows, and shit - fleets of ships, support vehicles, sinkings of the equivalent of multiple Exxon Valdez's per month, nukes, tens of thousands of diesel engined tanks, hundreds of thousands of deuce and a halfs, jeeps, and other support vehicles, and so forth ..

... all of which were produced by people commuting by car and bus to factories throughout the world in the manufacturing equivalent of an unfiltered Camel.

Per the AGW crowd's model, were it accurate, we'd be drowned-ed by now.

so, fuck 'em.

Note to the AGW types - When your model accounts for the carbon output of WWII, I'll listen.

.

52 I personally believe that Gore and his ilk are full of shit.  That said, I could be wrong.  People who believe in AGW could be right.  We won't know until everyone has access to data that hasn't been fudged

53 If she keeps lying like this she might convince me she's got what it takes to be President after all. I'm not a sell-out. I am a cynic. And I'm actually proud to be a cynic, because I think idealists are... well, they are putting too much stock in integrity. Integrity like anything ele has a price. i don't want to pay it.

54 Ace, I believe you're being a little too reactionary about the Club of Rome accusations. The Club of Rome (or at least the vast majority of its members) is HEAVILY involved in all of this.

You can find a great analysis of the issue here. No bull, just extremely well-documented fact.

55
You'd have to be a dunce to believe the Earth's climate will remain constant indefinitely. You'd also be a dunce to put out the notion that man cannot or should not take care of the planet. Sarah Palin is no dunce. She said exactly the right thing.

We should take care of the planet. But we should do so intelligently and pragmatically.

56 just had that stupid virus pop up...well....pop up, what gives, i didnt click on shit.

57

I am a cynic. And I'm actually proud to be a cynic, because I think idealists are... well, they are putting too much stock in integrity.

You must understand, we can perfect the human condition.

58 Mallamutt good reminder about the whale oil.  I was just reading a great biography of Rockefeller, and it talked about how they developed gasoline as an minor niche item, to use up the byproduct of the paraffin and kerosene - the main targetof the early oil industry.  So when they were developing the internal combustion engine, they designed it for gasoline because it was so cheap.

There was no way for any government of the time to know what human ingenuity had in store. 

59 Um.. the hold strategy just might not work because Kleptohagen has just stated that they want $60 Billion from western nations to study land, sea and air to make absolutely sure of global warming.  Its not about science, its about the money.  I am changing careers, anybody need me to take temps for them, just $249,999/year and you got yourself a climate sciency type guy.

60

For a politician that is dead in the water because she quit the Governorship and because she is dumb, Mrs. Palin is the closest thing to an Obama challenger that there is.  She impresses me with her positions on the issues.  I don't care if she didn't go to Harvard.  Her only drawback in my mind is that I think she is hot and you shouldn't vote with your little head. 

Sen. Inhofe is the point man to lead on dispelling the AGW non-sense.  Generals have lieutenants and seargants to conduct the battles.  Ace is right that is is OK for Sarah to sit back and take a moderate tone on this one.  The Inhofe-Boxer stuff going on lately is pure gold.  Anyhow, you can tell she is totally mocking Al Gore and the AGW cult, even if her language pays some lipservice to man's effect on climate.   

 

61 I am changing careers, anybody need me to take temps for them, just $249,999/year and you got yourself a climate sciency type guy.

Posted by: Guy Fawkes at December 10, 2009 05:56 PM (DIYmd)

I thought you had.....nothing?

62 I think, on general principle, any organization named "Club of Rome" can be dismissed.

... unless it's an actual, you know, wooden club, with knots and nails in it.

63

If al Gore really believed what he was saying, he would sell his manions and move into a smaller house and fly commercially and become a vegitarian. He is a liar, and these things I just mentioned prove it.

If I knew I was causing worldwide destruction, I would do those simple things.

64

It's not too shabby to have a guy proposing free market answers.

Posted by: lorien1973 at December 10, 2009 05:51 PM (IhQuA)

How are free-market answers superior to statist answers when the problem itself doesn't exist???

65

>>If it takes a bit of strategic horseshit and the wasting of a few billion

Strategic horseshit -- I like the smell of that..

66 My problem with granting the AGW cultists a "well, maybe it's real and maybe it isn't" is that they are the people claiming the science is settled and calling anyone who expresses any skepticism whatsoever, flat-earthers, equivalent to Holocaust deniers, etc. We KNOW it's bullshit, and should not be afraid to say so. This whole argument reminds me of the line from my favorite poem:

The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.

67 As far as I'm concerned the idiots can't get the local forecast correct 50% of the time and they want us to believe they can predict what may happen years from now?  As for the past, there was a NOAA temperature station at our local airport.  It was on hot asphalt in the summer and iced over in the winter.  So they moved it for more accurate readings...next to the terminal air conditioning unit. 

68
The first thing we need to do is the get the ridiculous idea out of people's heads that we can 'fix' the climate.

But don't stop there. Tell people how we can reduce pollution and lower energy costs. Not through government, but through private entrepreneurship and allowing the free-marketplace to develop new technology.

69 I hve update to acknowledge palin is more forward-leaning on this than I at first appreciated.

70

It lets Newt not get the stupid "denier" label attached to him and allow him to propose free market solutions to the problem they pretend exists.

But he gave up something for nothing.  He can do all the energy work - renewable energy, etc he wants and get security cons etc nodding their heads without looking as if he signed onto Nancy's playbook, and then when asked about agw or c/c in the future he can apply his free market solutions to the question.  He gave up the ground without any necessity. 

71 Oh, and Al Gore is a pathological, lying sack of shit, the worst person in America, at least until the Won came along. Now it's a tossup.

72

If al Gore really believed what he was saying, he would sell his manions and move into a smaller house and fly commercially and become a vegitarian.

What the hell is the point of continued existence if you cannot eat steak tartar on your Gulfstream while flying to your summer house to pick up the spiffy jacket you left there last time and wanted to wear to a dinner next week?

I'd kill myself.

73 Absolutely correct notropis. Bjorn Lomborg pops up frequently to note that even if there is some amount of human cause to GW we have many more pressing problems in the world, problems that can actually be mitigated or alleviated with a fraction of the expenditure. I think one of his recent columns was about poor people in the third world with HIV. Another is that malaria kills millions but DDT can stop mosquitoes if it weren't for the decades old crap from Rachel Carson's Silent Spring. (I believe that there is actually some sense returning and DDT use is increasing.)

74 I disagree with that -- like, I so totally disagree with that; I say, "Welcome to Planet Earth where lying gets you paid and honesty gets you fired"

Good luck with that dishonesty thing. Generally speaking, lies usually come back to bite people in the ass. Maybe not today, maybe not tomorrow...but eventually.

75 @65

Al Gore would be like that annoying actor Ed Begley Jr., who at least comes close to walking the talk about living "green".

76

Blast! And we were so close, too.

77 Good news for Sarah: Al Gore did his snark on MSNBC's Andrea Mitchell show. So, like what, 7 people actually saw it?

78 The update is a better reflection of what Palin was saying, IMO.

79 @ 46, i was listening to talk radio this morning, and they played a clip of al gore saying about 2 miles into the earth its a couple of million degrees....   huh?   this douche has no clue

80 We should take care of the planet. But we should do so intelligently and pragmatically.

Posted by: the professional sockpuppeteer at December 10, 2009 05:55 PM (9X3KM)

I disagree.  We should not take care of the planet.  We most certainly should take care not to fuck up the planet while we live on it - I think they call that "treading softly" - but it's total hubris to think we can swaddle the planet in cotton wool and keep it safe and cozy.

And by the way, one day, no matter how softly we tread or how much we try to take care of the planet, the planet (or one of its close neighbors) is going to kill us all.  Not intentionally.  Not with malice or out of revenge.  But because this piece of rock exists according to physical laws that do not in any way take into account whether we exist and are happy.

81 We'll need to encourage innovation through reductions in corporate and capital gains tax levels. We'll need to match China's coal power with our own nuclear power and domestically drilled oil. We'll need to relax regulations on genetically modified crops, to increase production on possibly fewer arable acres.  Posted by: notropis

↑ + Eleventy billion.
Especially the nuke part, but the Left doesn't see power production, food tech, or corporations in general as necessary.

In their world, only the government is sacred.

82 Suppose the worst of the alarmists are correct.

If I stipulate that 1==2, then I can prove anything.

83 And Palin didn't even mention Al Gore's idea that "the interior of the Earth is extremely hot [giggling] ... several million degrees" to be harnessed for geothermal energy. Al the expert!

Several million degrees ... he wouldn't even hold his idiocy at "a million", but had to go "several". LOL.

84 Soap, "No one has ever lost money betting on the gullibility of the American public."

85

and the whole notion that human's can stop the climate from changing is crazy.  The Earth's climate changes all on its own and we as mere humans need to be able to adapt to it.  You don't adapt the Earth to fit our needs, you adapt our needs to fit what the Earth give us. 

About the only part of Arnolds plan in CA that I can support is to not build infrastructure in areas likely to be affected by rising seas.  That makes sense because sea levels will change over the long course of time regardless of CO2 emissions and what humans do. 

86

IF PALIN SAID THIS...

the surface of the Sun is 6k degrees, or so I'm told

But Algore is smarter than me.

87 “The Arctic will be ice-free in 5 years”

- Al Gore, December, 2008

88 This is the problem with Pawlenty.  He bought into this hook, line and sinker and doesn't want to look like a fool now.  Similarly with Romney and health care.

I guess we are all reluctant to contradict the almighty word of the experts but I saw it as follows a long time ago:  You have to believe:
(1) The globe is warming.
(2) CO2 can cause this via a "greenhouse effect".
(3) CO2 (a trace gas) is the primary cause of this greenhouse effect.
(4) Man-made CO2 is the primary source of the CO2 that is causing the warming.
(5) Modern man-made CO2 is significantly higher than that which occur in nature, sufficient to accelerate this effect measurably.
(5) The proposed government solutions can keep the warming from happening.
(6) Any possible government solution can keep the warming from happening.
(7) The warmer climate is not desirable.

If any of these is wrong, global warming is not a problem.  And as many pointed out, if all 7 are correct, the easiest and quickest solution is nuclear power.  Any objection to nuclear power is moot because this global warming thing is so much worse than anything we can imagine from nuclear power plants.

I didn't know it was a scam from the beginning, but I knew it was contrived and I knew lots of influential and wealthy and powerful people needed this to be an issue.  So I knew that their data was picked and chosen carefully.

I never dreamed the results would be as phony as a freshman physics lab.

89 You know the entire libraries of unmitigated nonsense the American public has grown to believe in over the last 50 years? You're not going to reverse their dim thinking on this overnight.

90

Her only drawback in my mind is that I think she is hot and you shouldn't vote with your little head. 

Posted by: California Red at December 10, 2009 05:56 PM (7uWb

Unless you are hotter than Todd Palin, you shouldn't worry about your attraction to her affecting your thinking.  All you have to do is remind yourself that no matter how hot you think she is, she doesn't reciprocate the interest and she's not going to do so just for your vote... so you can vote for her totally without guilt.

91 63 I am changing careers, anybody need me to take temps for them, just $249,999/year and you got yourself a climate sciency type guy.

Posted by: Guy Fawkes at December 10, 2009 05:56 PM (DIYmd)

I thought you had.....nothing?

Only in the 25th hundred post, which everybody wants but I have and will forever, but I might sell for the right amount of carbon credits.

92 The media doesn't let the right to get away with lying, or shading the truth, or making mistakes. Only the left gets a pass.

93 I guess maybe I'd prefer if she weren't so out in front on it; but kudos for her for being there.

I'm thrilled with her.  She's in front, granted, but she's in front in the direction that the swell is going. 

94
btw, 2km is 1.25 miles

1.25 miles is 5 laps around a running track.

Click that link above if you want to hear Algore tell you it's 'several million degrees' just 1.25 miles below the surface our planet.

95 It delighted me utterly to see the deft way in which Sarah kicked Fatso the Clown in his shriveled balls over his condescending bullshit. It made my heart sing.

As for the whole long purity argument, I'm mostly inclined to stay out of that. As with many issues in this world, perfect purity isn't possible. Pollution is bad. Humans can f-up the environment (post-Soviet Russia or modern-day China, say). Some sound environmental regulation is needed. But with AGW that's not the issue...the real issue is that it's something being hyped up by a gang of crooks and commies (CRU, ManBearPig, the UN kleptocracy, the MainstreamWhore-bot Media, etc., etc.) to amass power and wealth for themselves. It's fraud disguised as concern about environmental science. And giving them the final put-down to defeat may require some ugly, tricksy fighting and maybe a bit of compromise to convince the undecideds. Fighting is always ugly, winning never entirely pure.

96 Sorry, that was a sock from days ago. 

97

Incidentally, I don't know if Sarah Palin really believes in AGW to the extent she says. She seems to say she does believe man's activities may be affecting the environment, but then shoots down Copenhagen on cost/benefit principles.

(Emphasis added.)  Either you mean GW here, or I'm missing something.

98 #53, BumperStickerist, I forwarded that one to my dad, the conservative who still believes in AGW because CNN told him to. He's the one who got me started on military history, so it ought to get him thinking.

99 @81
Funny thing about ManBearPig's ramblings was that he was proposing geothermal for everyone everywhere. He apparently doesn't realize that a very serious side effect of geothermal is that is causes earthquakes. A Swiss project has now been canceled due to quakes.

100
Al Gore would be like that annoying actor Ed Begley Jr., who at least comes close to walking the talk about living "green".

Posted by: Penfold at December 10, 2009 06:03 PM (lF2Kk)

Come on, it's pretty damned easy when you live in SoCal.  Come to Iowa and you'll be digging dirty coal out of the ground with your bare hands.

I would like somebody to do a carbon study on my namesake.  One thing I know is that the technology-free lifestyle stinks.  Literally.

101 Dag gummit, Ace, quite writin' so much.  I'm a Moron!

102 Fox News Alert for you moron dudes:

Megyn Kelly on O'Reilly tonight.

Sorry for the O/T, but I knew you idiots would want to know.

And you're welcome.

103 >>>his is the problem with Pawlenty. He bought into this hook, line and sinker and doesn't want to look like a fool now. Did he? Are you sure he wasn't peddling twaddle? I do not know myself, I'm asking. There is a difference between saying you believe in AGW and meaning it.

104 Sarah should also have mentioned and questioned HOW MUCH MONEY IS AL GORE MAKING OFF THIS?

105

Ace..

Just curious...do you really think that the Obama birth certificate issue is settled.?..or are you pulling like Palin on AGW and are just pretending it is?

..or maybe just don't want to be called a "nither" by Cahrles Jhonson?

 

106 91 You know the entire libraries of unmitigated nonsense the American public has grown to believe in over the last 50 years?

You're not going to reverse their dim thinking on this overnight.

Posted by: ace at December 10, 2009 06:08 PM (jlvw3)

Shut up and let me eat my oat bran waffle.

107
And Palin didn't even mention Al Gore's idea that "the interior of the Earth is extremely hot [giggling] ... several million degrees" to be harnessed for geothermal energy. Al the expert!

Yeah, I know, p.o.p!

Again, here's the vid of algore saying utter nonsense.

108 I am having a hellish day at the office, but I want to write something that troubles me a little.

The piece printed above makes me want to hung Sarah Palin, and tell her how great I think she is (it also makes me want to punch the guy in the train who said "are you really reading that"; I did say FU, which I almost never do.  But I digress...)

But part of the thrill of Sarah Palin, beginning with her intro at the Convention in MN is that she is great and smart, and not what the MSM and leftards and liberal tards thing of her.

So, should I feel bad, embarrassed, that part of my thrill about Sarah Palin is that she is not what the idiots think of her?  Is my love for her tainted?

G-d, I love Sarah Palin.

And where can I punch Al Gore?

109 hug not hung!

110

If I knew I was causing worldwide destruction, I would do those simple things.

Posted by: Dan at December 10, 2009 05:58 PM (KZraB)

Analogy: ten people are in the middle of the ocean on a lifeboat with limited food and water.  One of them is Al Gore.  As he is the most famous person in the group and obviously knows what is best for everyone, the rest elect him Captain.  He immediately institutes strict rationing, because without it, they will run out of food and water too quickly and die horrible deaths of thirst and starvation.

The next morning, the nine others awake to find all the food and water gone.  "What happened?" they cry.

"I ate and drank it all," says Cap'n Gore.

"But now we're all going to die horrible deaths of thirst and starvation!" they wail.

"No, we won't," says Cap'n Gore.  "You see, I took out an insurance policy against just such an eventuality.  Right now, a hundred people are all doing a one-day fast on shore, and that will more than offset my food and water consumption on this boat."

"We're saved!" shout the other nine castaways in unison.

111 Did he? Are you sure he wasn't peddling twaddle?
I do not know myself, I'm asking.
There is a difference between saying you believe in AGW and meaning it.

Posted by: ace at December 10, 2009 06:13 PM (jlvw3)

It's my understanding he went the full Ahnold, yes.

And, yes, he's in Minnesota which is doubly shocking. 

112 There is a difference between saying you believe in AGW and meaning it.

Posted by: ace at December 10, 2009 06:13 PM (jlvw3) Most of the supporters of AGW couldn't possibly understand it, so I'm not sure that distinction has much depth in most cases - though "believe" sets the proper context for it.

113 Posted by: notropis at December 10, 2009 05:46 PM (0thcq)

--You basically have summed up Bjorn Lomborg's take on it.  He is a "believer" in the sense that he thinks the overall trend is warming and he considers mankind's influence significant, but nevertheless that the human condition is best alleviated by spending those ka-jillions on medicine, food, etc.  Furthermore, he does not see global warming as bad, bad bad (he often repeats a stat that more people die in Europe annually from cold than heat).

Not sure where he is post-Climaquiddick.

114 AGW is athropogenic (man-caused) GW. GW is just global warming, which most scientists think happens, and did happen, at least, from 1975-1998. The question isn't whether there's GW, it's whether there's AGW, and how much AGW there is. The climate alarmists are right, probably, in one detail: carbon is a greenhouse gas, albeit one of the weakest, and so yeah, the more carbon, the more warming we can expect. The question is whether, say, doubling the carbon partial from 350 ppm to 700 will kill the earth. Based on carbon's own powers of greenhouse warming -- the answer is NO. But the climate alarmists claim there's all these additional feedback loops and so carbon has this huge multiplier effect that makes it far, far more important in warming than its chemical profile alone would suggest. That's where the argument is, about this feedback, and wether there are other feedbacks that DIMINISH warming (such as increased high clouds which reflect light without trapping heat) and wether there is any multiplier effect with carbon at all or it's just as weak a greenhouse gas as it appears on paper. Palin is doing a bit of a dance in saying she believes in "global warming," which most everyone believes in, at least if we are talking 1975-1998.

115 You know, BTW, that Algore won't debate anyone on this.

Of course he won't debate Lord Monkton, but you'd think ol' Al would have his way with Caribou Barbie.  He should feel free to challenge her and yet he doesn't.

But remember, he was never afraid of debate.  He famously debated (and defeated) Ross Perot on NAFTA. And yet Al considers himself an expert on GW.

116

I read somewhere that politicians should lead from the middle. 

Do you have any thoughts on this, Ace?

117 "How are free-market answers superior to statist answers when the problem itself doesn't exist??? Posted by: stuiec at December 10, 2009 05:59 PM (Ate22)" Because the free-market answers are the same, whether or not the problem exists (i.e. local control, low tax policies that encourage innovation, plentiful and cheap energy, strong defense, strong fiscal policy -- these things can be defended as a solution to almost all threats, real or imagined.)

118 [sockpuppet off]

46 Don't even kid yourself, ace. You're not nearly up to my level.

Posted by: Simon Pure at December 10, 2009 05:51 PM (muhdt)

A famous person said in some movie that only a Sith deals in absolutes.

119
the temperature of molten lava runs up to 2400 degrees

Yet, according to Professor Gore, just a few kilometers below the surface the temp is 'several million degrees,' which is hot enough to provide us with thirty-five thousand years of energy!

120 Just for future reference, when the Earth starts cooling, that's when we start burning the polar bears right?

121 I am a cynic. And I'm actually proud to be a cynic ... Posted by: ace

Sorry if this reads pedantic or nitpicking but I don't think cynic is the word you are looking for. A 'cynic' attributes bad motives to all behavior. All bad motives to all behavior.

Whatever the better term - pragmatist, realist, etc. - I've never seen anything that would demonstrate you are a cynic that sees people not just as flawed or dumb but wholly corrupted.

True cynicism is one note away from nihilism, IMHO if that makes any sense.

122 >>>Just curious...do you really think that the Obama birth certificate issue is settled.?. I think it's settled. he's fought to not release the long form, and he was also born in Hawaii. There is not a single shred of evidence to say his mom was not in Hawaii, where she lived and had an apartment, during her birth. Not a shred. And good evidence that she was. Barring some kind of evidence she took a long arduous trip to a thrid world country during her ninth month of pregnancy, I'd say it's settled. The fact that he's fighting to prevent the release of hte long form, in itself, is hardly enough evidence to prove a large conclusion. There are other smaller conclusions that are more likely (his long form has something embarrassing but not disqualifying on it, he's just a dick, etc.)

123

GW is just global warming, which most scientists think happens, and did happen, at least, from 1975-1998.

The question isn't whether there's GW, it's whether there's AGW, and how much AGW there is. 

Agreed - but when Palin says the exact same thing you say above, how is that "doing a bit of a dance"?

Palin is doing a bit of a dance in saying she believes in "global warming," which most everyone believes in, at least if we are talking 1975-1998.

 

124

A famous person said in some movie that only a Sith deals in absolutes.

Posted by: logprof at December 10, 2009 06:20 PM (I3Udb)

After seeing the prequels, I knew what side I wanted to be on.

125 I think that is a nitpick... aren't I using cynic as it usually is used? I am cynical. I attribute a lot of political stuff to ignorance and weakness of mind. I mean, that seems pretty cynical.

126 Anyone who uses critical thinking skills has to admit that climate change does, in fact exist. It has been existing for eons. Whether it is an actual "man-caused" disaster in the making is what the argument is about. The earth has been cooling for somewhere around ten years now but they don't want to admit that because it would drive a hole through their pet theory. Plus, the fact that they are willing to falsify data and even lie, shoots serious holes in their credibility. The study needs to be done by someone that can be trusted. Where we would find such a team?

127 Interestingly, when the left were running with "The ice age is coming!", it was also due to evil humans burning exactly the same things that now cause "the globe is going to fry!"

What are the odds of that?

128 What's wrong with not knowing?

I see many self-professed experts on both sides of this stupid politicized debate.  Many of them don't even understand the most basic science of why CO2 is considered a greenhouse gas, or the various known and suspected feedback mechanisms effecting the climate and atmosphere.

There is no dataset which can definitely answer this question at present, and what data we do have keeps being distorted and tampered with.

Personally, I think human CO2 emissions are probably having a small warming effect; I'd be very surprised if this turned out not to be true.  However, I'm more worried about an ice age.  But this is just a guess.  I don't know.  And neither does anybody else, no matter how sure they think they are.

129 http://tinyurl.com/56sr3q

This is the link to Al Gore predicting the ice free arctic in 5 years

130 It's a dance if she says oh I DO believe in Global Warming but she is implying that means what people think "global wamring" means, specifically, anthropogenic global warming.

131 Fox is reporting the "British Scientists" who say climaquidick is not a big deal and AGW is real.

They are not reporting the fact that these people were forced to say that.

132 This AGW bullshit is a cult, sorta like Scientology, just with less credibility and no hot chics.

hee hee.  Has anyone noted the absolute lack of any humor in any man-made catastrophic global warming proponents.  None.  Nada. Not a shred.  I'd rather broil with the humorous "deniers" any day, than live in a sterile, lifeless cool world with Al Gore and his ilk.

133 Because the free-market answers are the same, whether or not the problem exists (i.e. local control, low tax policies that encourage innovation, plentiful and cheap energy, strong defense, strong fiscal policy -- these things can be defended as a solution to almost all threats, real or imagined.)

Posted by: notropis at December 10, 2009 06:20 PM (0thcq)

The danger in creating a market-based solution to a non-existent problem is that in doing so, you implicitly grant the other side's assertion that the problem is real.  And if the market-based solution doesn't demonstrably solve the imaginary problem quickly enough, when the other side insists that it's time for statist, command-and-control action, you can't turn around and say, "Well, I was just funnin' about the existence of the problem."  You get hoist with your own petard at that point.

134 "Barring some kind of evidence she took a long arduous trip to a thrid world country during her ninth month of pregnancy.... Posted by: ace at December 10, 2009 06:22 PM (jlvw3)" Uh, oh, ace, that's sounding dangerously like Andi. After all, if Sarah could fly from Texas to Alaska while in labor, then who's to say what Stanley Ann could have done? (Actually, the birther issue was settled when the Senate confirmed the choice of the electors.)

135 Oh, and AlBore is a retard. The guy is truly a world class idiot.

136 The study needs to be done by someone that can be trusted.

That will never happen, and we all know it. That's why placating idiots with a 3 billion dollar "study" is a pipe dream.

137 There is not a single shred of evidence to say his mom was not in Hawaii, where she lived and had an apartment, during her birth. Not a shred. And good evidence that she was.

I agree.  100%.  Wholeheartedly.  It's pure common sense.

However...thanks to lawyers, like Obama...that is not the society we live in today.  The bartender can't say "He looked 21" and I can't say "She said she was 18."

Still, the whole BC thing is silly.  He's hiding it because he's a douche, not because it says something damning.  I don't want to push the BC thing because if it is released, it'll be Al Capone's vault all over again.

138
Ace,

I disagree vehemently that this is a purity problem for Governor Palin.  For her to deny categorically that there is anthropogenic influence on global warming would be an error of dogma on her part.

Nobody really *knows*.  The questions of scale make it nearly impossible for me to believe that GHGs--particularly anthropogenic carbon dioxide emissions--have an impact on global climate, but *nobody* *knows* (including me) whether this is the case.

139

A famous person said in some movie that only a Sith deals in absolutes.

Posted by: logprof at December 10, 2009 06:20 PM (I3Udb)

After seeing the prequels, I knew what side I wanted to be on.

Posted by: Darth AmishDude at December 10, 2009 06:23 PM (T0NGe)

The Case for the Empire

140 @122
Funny, they are burning bunnies in Stockholm now
http://tinyurl.com/yk3hkte

141 Apropos some of the earlier comments, I saw Laura Ingraham in the airport the other day, walking in Mom clothes with her little kids.  Still looking good!

142 Hey ManBearPig, the physics are pretty simple.  And they say that CO2 levels are a tertiary effect on global temperatures... In fact a doubling of today's levels would yield about a 1deg F rise in global temperatures... Perhaps if you had take 'Heat and Mass Transfer' as an undergraduate, you could render such a conclusion... So stick it up your arse and smoke it.... 

143 where organizers replaced him with an Obama cardboard cutout

Yes, but was there a TOTUS cutout?

144 Laura-not the kids.  The kids were cute, but you know, they were kids.

145 right, true, no one knows, that is really the position of the skeptics and real scientists. it is not about being certain there is no AGW; it is rather about being fairly certain there is no GOOD EVIDENCE for AGW, a different proposition. I lapse on this and often assert that AGW is bullshit. I mean, rather: The evidence offered for AGW is, from what I can tell, pure bullshit. Maybe there is some AGW. Maybe a lot. Who knows. I haven't HOMOGENIZED THE DATA yet so I can't tell.

146 Perhaps if you had take 'Heat and Mass Transfer' as an undergraduate, you could render such a conclusion... So stick it up your arse and smoke it.... 

Posted by: phreshone at December 10, 2009 06:30 PM (wQx2m)

You do know that Algore flunked out of divinity school and dropped out of law school?  Or is it the other way around?  Basically, he flunked both.

That's pretty impressive.  I would have thought it impossible, but Gore managed it.

147 I'm a scientist and supportive/not-closed on Palin; the Palin response is perfect. 

148 yeah, freeman dyson said based on CO2's warming properites alone (minus these postulated multipliers), if the atmosphere went from trace amounts of CO2 (350 parts per MILLION, as it is now, or threabouts) to 100% CO2 (one million parts per million), the whole globe could expect like 8 degrees F warming. And he's like: Dude, if making the ENTIRE ATMOSPHERE into CO2 warms it by eight degrees, if multliplying it by 30,000 times (check my math) warms it by eight degrees, no, no way, I do not believe that doubling it from 350 parts per million to 700 parts per million is going to raise temperatures by 6 degrees.

149 @136 notropis

(Actually, the birther issue was settled when the Senate confirmed the choice of the electors.)

Guess again.  This is exactly why he should settle it once and for all by releasing his long form BC and the other relevant records from his life:  If credible evidence emerges that he is not eligible to hold the office, he will resign and leave the country, or he will be removed from office.  And heaven help any dumbass stupid enough to lift a finger in his defense.

150 my nubmers are shaky there, this is recollected. there was a news magazine article on Dyson and his skepticism. He's a bigtime Physicist at Princeton and therefore not a real scientist of course. I think he proposed the idea of the Dyson Sphere, which was used by Larry Niven for the Ringworld books. (Or maybe the Dyson Sphere was gotten from the Ringworld -- not sure. I don't know. I should shut up now.)

151

124 >>>Just curious...do you really think that the Obama birth certificate issue is settled.?.

I think it's settled.

Thanks. I disagree with you, but I don't want to get into it...just wanted to know where you were coming from

152 >>> If credible evidence emerges that he is not eligible to hold the office, he will resign and leave the country, or he will be removed from office. Dude. You are really not running your Effort Expended to Likely Reward software properly.

153

Notice that she said that she believes in Climate Change, not AGW.  Though the Gorebots have fairly succesfully convinced the world that Climate Change = AGW, Palin is brilliant to stand on a point that almost everyone sane can stand on:  "Hell, the climate changes!  Shocking, I know!  It goes up and down, hence the word "cyclic".  I just don't believe humans can cause either cold or warming periods, just by existing, or that we should panic and give up all of our freedoms because the temperature . . . wait for it . . . CHANGES!"

She's even closer to the scientific truth of the issue than we're giving her credit for:  The Climate Changes (DUH!).

 

Totally, Completely, and Irreversibly O/T:  If anyone is interested in seeing the legal pleadings related to Lakewood Cop Killer Maurice Clemmons, they're now available online (and free) from this link:  LINX.  Click on link for case number 09-1-03166-7, and enter access code 1129.  I'll be looking through these to see if I can figure out how this turd managed to make bail.

154 If the last 10 years heve been cooler, then why is the media reporting that scientists are saying that this period (last 10 years) has been the warmest on record?

155 The left has taken a worthwhile cause , namely pollution , and morphed it into every commies wet dream . DiT nailed it upthread , this has never been anything more than wealth transfer writ fucking large . No one here advocates pollution as a good thing . CO2 is not pollution , it's a gas essential to all life on earth , always has been , always will be . Want to blow your wad lefty , do it at home , cleaning up your sandlot first . When were these idiots truly useful ?

156 Geez, not the f'ing birth certificate shit again.

157

104 Megyn Kelly on O'Reilly tonight.

Ick, i don't envy the morons.  Having to sit through oreilly to see megyn.

158
Ace,

You had it right.  Dyson sphere was postulated by Freeman Dyson.  STTNG found one in the episode where Scotty came back.

Ringworld was a scaling-back of the concept of a Dyson sphere (explained in Niven's foreword, IIRC).

Funny--it was keeping the "vampires" of Ringworld (creatures that attracted prey with pheromones) in mind that kept me from doing lots of stupid things when I was younger.

159 Do you not detect that your scenario has a strong whiff of wish fulfillment to it? We're sitting here discussing confirmation bias, researchers falling in love with a beautiful theory, seeing evidence because they want to see evidence, mistaken their own interests for what the evidence actually says, etc. Do you not think that maybe you've come down with a case of this yourself? As Feynmann said: "No one is better at fooling a scientist than himself," or words to that effect. It's like you're reading all this stuff about how people trick themselves into believing a lovely lovely theory and just not a drop of that sinks in.

160 148 right, true, no one knows, that is really the position of the skeptics and real scientists. it is not about being certain there is no AGW; it is rather about being fairly certain there is no GOOD EVIDENCE for AGW, a different proposition.

The real problem is that most scientists -- especially those who study a paleo subject that is as ridiculously complex and resistant to precision as climate -- have only an inkling of what's going on. 

When we see "a study suggests that oat bran will improve your eyesight by 20%!" we rightly scoff and know that nothing so definitive was proven.  So it is with the climate.  They do a little study and get some results that suggest something and that's it.  They really have no idea what they're doing. 

161

I still think it was smart. It lets Newt not get the stupid "denier" label attached to him and allow him to propose free market solutions to the problem they pretend exists. The only solutions offered now are statist ones. It's not too shabby to have a guy proposing free market answers.

Posted by: lorien1973 at December 10, 2009 05:51 PM (IhQuA)

 

Yeah, smart.  This is the same numbnuts who went "All-in" for Dede Scozzafava.  Apparently he is so smart he gets far enough ahead to meet himself coming the other way and then he kicks his own ass.

162 >>If the last 10 years heve been cooler, then why is the media reporting that scientists are saying that this period (last 10 years) has been the warmest on record? The claim goes thus: 1998 marked the highest global temp, ever. Since 1998, it has slipped, SLIGHTLY, but since 1998 was the hottest ever, and global temps were ALMOST as high as 1998's for most of the last ten years, the decade was "the warmest ever." And yet no actual warming occurred -- we just basically lost an ooch or two off our 1998 high. It plateaued or fell slightly, but given 1999 was Teh Hottest Eveh, it's still good enough to make the 2000's the hottest decade. So they are not answering the question. The answer, even according to their own calculations, is that there has been NO WARMING FOR TEN YEARS. BUT- they don't say that. THey say "it's the hottest ever," implying warming. But even their own calcs don't show that. Their own faked up calcs show we have at most retained 98% of the 1998 high, not added to it. As for their calcs-- check out Darwin Station, baby.

163 And the warmest year was 1934, not 1998, too.

164 @156 Ace

Dude.

You are really not running your Effort Expended to Likely Reward software properly.

I said, "*IF* credible evidence emerges. . ."

The BC probably has no bearing on that.  However, if he--as an adult--filed evidence of Indonesian citizenship to get a break on tuition, then I'm going to have to debate myself over whether *I* consider him eligible for office.

165 I am loving  SP!!!  She might just work afterall. 

Vice President Gore, the Climategate scandal exists. You might even say that itÂ’s sort of like gravity: you simply canÂ’t deny it.

I heart me some Smartass Palin!

166 4 Words: Giant Space Umbrellas

167 Bebe's boobs, trust me on this.  The average male moron would sit through Keefy Olberdouche to get a look at Megyn's first appearance on the tube since the birth of her baby.

And speaking of boobs, I wonder if she's breast-feeding?  Mine were huge and I got skinny again really quick.  I miss those boobs of mine.

168 through some fudging and "homogenization" they just barely moved 1998 ahead of 1934. Mc or the other Mc showed an error in these calculations, causing an embarrassment, but no problem, Hansen went in and did some new adjustments and once again moved 1998 ahead of 1934 by some truly trivial figure (like hundredths of a degree, like that).

169

I love how she shoves Gore's quotation back in his face. Eat it Gore.

On the birth certificate thing, I am more of the camp that there is something embarrassing on it, like his supposed father isn't actually his real father. Not sure why that would be particularly bad, though I guess it hurts the narrative if his real father was actually a communist pedophile.

170 Sarah should also have mentioned and questioned HOW MUCH MONEY IS AL GORE MAKING OFF THIS?

Posted by: GarandFan at December 10, 2009 06:13 PM (ZQBnQ)

Sarah Palin was interviewed by Laura Ingraham today about this little spat with ALGore and her red jacket from the book cover being auctioned off for the Fisher House and The Wounded Warrior Project.

She did whack Gore about this being a money making machine for him and his environmentalist friends. That is a quote. You can go to conservatives4palin.com and hear the clip, or maybe Ace could update this post with that audio

171 Ace,

I think you're over-analyzing this.  She just stepped on AlGore's nutsack with her stompy-boot.  Enjoy the pwnag3.

172 AGW is the only thing that is keeping the UN alive.  Seriously.  AGW is the intravenous dosage of adrenaline for the UN.  Without AGW what does the UN have?

Human rights?
Peace?
Arms deterrents?
Freedom?

It has NOTHING without AGW.  Well, maybe it might have something if it becomes a governing body for the Internet.  Fat chance of that though.  The capital expenditures that keep the Internet going are handled by the rich nations already.

A better way to defeat the UN global government socialists, the Fucking Al Gores and the George Soros types, is to fucking pie them in the face everywhere.  EVERYWHERE.  Fucking pies every time they touch down on new soil.  These fuckers have to pay.  And I can't think of a better way than humility induced diabetes.

Now, since the Birchers are the only crew that actually follows these fuckers we
re going to have to teach them some baking and throwing methods.  Anyone have a spare house near Wisconsin?

173 Whoa, Ace, what's behind the successive mega-posts, steroids or blow?

174 And the warmest year was 1934, not 1998, too.

Recent year.

I'll guaran-damn-tee you that the MWP was warmer, as well as many other times in human history.

The 'warmest' ever is bullshit, particularly after I've lived through the two coolest summers I've ever experienced.

175 Climategate?  Never heard of it.

176 James Hansen, you might observe, really, really, REALLY wants to keep his precious 1998 with the title of "hottest."

177 Al Gore?  Never heard of him.

178 Sarah Palin?  Never heard of her.

179 So they are not answering the question. The answer, even according to their own calculations, is that there has been NO WARMING FOR TEN YEARS.

So basically their misleading the public. Why would real scientists do that?

180

Oh, and I commented on this the other night, but I’ll say it again. I was in a store on Tuesday evening and the DJ on the radio was breathlessly talking about how the scientists in Copenhagen have confirmed it and that climate change is real, global warming is happening, and that this year is set to become the warmest year on record. I thought to myself it would be easier to convince us if it weren’t at that moment 28 degrees in Seattle and -4 degrees in Denver. I told my friend “if this is shaping up to be the warmest year on record, I’m not sure I want to be around for a normal year, I might freeze to death.”

181 Screw you yankees.  I'm interested in one thing:  How does an impending Ice Age effect my coastal Georgia living ass? 

182 Manbearpig, is real , I'm totally serial!!!

183

because that will keep getting me invited to cocktail parties I have never in my entire life been invited to.

Yes, ace. We deliberately left you out and we're having a swell time.

There's great food, lots of bawdy ribaldry, and coed Twister.

It's a real hoot. Lauraw just exposed to her hump to Slulog and we all got a nice eyeful. You're totally missing out.

Gotta go ... Dave in Texas is about to beer bong an entire jar of mayonnaise!

Go, Dave, go! Oh, man! That's so AWESOME!

184 Every time Juan Williams opens his mouth, a kitten dies.

185 169 And the warmest year was 1934, not 1998, too.

Posted by: ace at December 10, 2009 06:45 PM (jlvw3)

Also, any dumbass who has gone outside the past two winters will notice the increase in the length and intensity of the winter season compared to recent previous years. I'm in western Tennessee, and last February we got 12.5 in of snow in a righteous thundersnow storm. That is the most snow I can remember in these parts, since I've been here almost 20 years.

We now have two consecutive years of snow in Houston and south Louisiana, technically late autumn, early December. I have read that it has not snowed in Houston two years in a row since records have been kept, and this year broke the early snow record, Dec 4th. The previous record was last year, on Dec 10th.

The warming has not only stopped, it has been colder in the lower 48 the last two winters.

186 Yeah 1998 was hot, but have you seen 1985? That year had an ass that wouldn't quit.

187 I think the "don't know" position is the right one to take, for one simple reason: we don't know.  Decades of fudged data by alarmist ideologues have muddied the field, so we really can't tell if man's activities affect the weather to any degree.  (I tend to think they don't, but I don't have any facts either way.)

188

173.  Bebe's boobs, trust me on this.  The average male moron would sit through Keefy Olberdouche to get a look at Megyn's first appearance on the tube since the birth of her baby.

Too masochistic.  I sure as hell wouldn't sit through the view to see Gerard Butler shirtless.

189 1985 could suck a bowling ball through a garden hose.

190 193 Every time Juan Williams opens his mouth, a kitten dies.

Posted by: Jane D'oh! at December 10, 2009 06:54 PM (UOM4

Juan is a horse's ass, and he has the teeth to match.

191 "Has it warmed since 1998?" "Well, 8 of the ten hottest years on record were in the 2000's." "I didn't ask that. I asked if it has warmed since 1998, as your theory predicts." "The 2000's has been the hottest decade on record." "Again, I did not ask that. I am asking specifically if we have added to the 1998 high since 1998, as your theory predicts we should, and as you told us we would." "Given that the 2000s were the hottest year on record, it is imperative we act now; who knows what the next decade holds for us." "We seem to be having a miscommunication here. For the last time, HAS IT WARMED SINCE 1998 AS YOU ASSURED US IT WOULD?" "The earth's climate is a diverse, complex affair. There is always some new rich diverse wonder to find in its intricacies." "So -- it hasn't warmed. You've discovered a new intricacy, apparently." "Look it's very simple. 8 of the ten hottest years on record were in the 2000s...." "You are avoiding my question, which I've asked now seven times straight." "No, I've answered it. You asked if the 2000s were the hottest decade on record--" "I most certainly did not ask that--" "--and I told you yes, indeed, they were." "Has there been any warming since 1998?" "Boy, you sure are dumb. You can't seem to process basic information." "Warming. Since. 1998." "Why should I answer your questions? You're just going to use my answers to poke holes in my theory.

192 So right after two epic threads on PC and diversity we get another Pulitzer prize composition on purists vs realists again. Is it national blogger rile your readership week or are you involved in a personal challenge to see how much hate you can suck out of your readers?

193 Hansen went in and did some new adjustments and once again moved 1998 ahead of 1934 by some truly trivial figure (like hundredths of a degree, like that).

Yeah, he did that by "adjusting the tree ring data" and the measured temps.

194 I guess Sarah is saying that she can see climate change from her house.

(I'm a Sarah fan, and think the AGW hypothesis is BS, but I also think the above line is funny.)

Ace too.

195 The 'warmest' ever is bullshit, particularly after I've lived through the two coolest summers I've ever experienced.

Posted by: nickless at December 10, 2009 06:48 PM (MMC8r)

that is a good point too. Another anecdotal example are the last two summers here.

Western Tennessee, the past 15 years always gets a week long heat wave with many days in a row of 100+ temps in Aug and early Sept.

Did not happen this year. We got a really short heat wave early, like mid June, then never even broke above 96 the rest of the summer. Weird for this area.

196

Trudie says I look like a total pervert child molester with my beard. I said You should listen to my lyrics!

Oh. Sarah Palin? Hotter than me.

197 #198

Well, bebe's boobs.  You do have a point.  Although Gerard Butler.......shirtless......but I'd have to look at the nasty visage of Joyless Behar and hear that harridan's voice.

Your're right.

198 Stossel's show is up against O'Really.  I am going with Stossel.

199 How does an impending Ice Age effect my coastal Georgia living ass?

Well, for one thing, the Ice age will cause your boobs to swell to enormous proportions. You'll be the most popular girl in town.

200 Yeah 1998 was hot, but have you seen 1985? That year had an ass that wouldn't quit.

LOL! You probably didn't see my post the other night on the ONT because of the Banhammer thread, but the gem you dropped on the Russian nightclub thread was classic. "That looks like third year anniversary dancing, at best". Still laughing over that one.

201 >>> Is it national blogger rile your readership week or are you involved in a personal challenge to see how much hate you can suck out of your readers? Bit of both. No, but really, while I find the question interesting (purity/honesty vs. cynicism/tactical sell-outs), I would like to keep the question on the question itself, and off whether I'm a "sell-out." That's what bothers me. I am using this example -- a bit overstated as I've confessed -- of a bona-fide true-blue champion of the right-roots selling out a little to try to show you that a bit of tactical horseshit is not the worst thing in the world. Losing is the worst thing in the world. Yeah, it is the worst thing in the world. Maybe in other elections we could really afford to have this argument and really risk losing in order to get a party that is more solid on the issues. Not now. This regime is going to frigging destroy America. It is not, in my opinion, the time to take the position that "an honest loss would do the party some good."

202 Really, after all we've seen, do we really have faith in Hansen discovering new emanations from the penumbra and revealing a *NEW*HOTTEST*OF*ALL*TIME winner?

203 Chicago and New York had very cool summers this year, too.  Seattle on the other hand, had an all time record high.

Someone posted a you tube video on yesterday's climate thread done by a father and son about average temperatures in the US by city and nearby rural region over the last 110 years.  No change in the rural regions, while the cities heated up (presumably due to increased urbanization).  They disclosed their data sources and methods.  Fancy that!

204 all this talk of third parties-- PURE MADNESS. We do not have the luxury of fucking about, gentlemen.

205 runningrn: Holy shit those are massive donations.  Those easily dwarf what I  had previously known as the largest single donor to the ACLU.  That was Peter Lewis and it was 7 million US over a 5 year span.  94 million is just incredible.

Bonus.  I'm all Charlie Gibson'd since I've never heard of Gelbaum.

Also, check this out.  The NY Times reporter that is breaking the Gelbaum story is none other than "my bosses killed the ACORN story" Stephanie Strom.
http://is.gd/5iOjB

She's obviously built sources in the left wing funding community.  What else does she have in that little head of hers?

206 #210

Well, I may be freezing my ass off, but I'll have huge knockers.  So there's that.

207 They disclosed their data sources and methods.  Fancy that!

They will be reported to the proper authorities for racism.

208 Ermmm ... she didn't say AGW. She said climate change.

Climate does change. So what? The tides go in and out as well.

If Gore wants to play King Canute, he'll have to find some other country to king him.

209 Stossel's show is up against O'Really.

That's too bad. Stossel is one of the good guys. With BOR's ratings, though, he'll get eaten alive.

210 Well, I may be freezing my ass off, but I'll have huge knockers.  So there's that.

Pics or it didn't happen.

211

#208

Jane, on second thought I would suck it up and sit through those biotches IF and ONLY IF he was wearing a kilt AND shirtless.  But I would wear some serious ear protection.

212 Well, I may be freezing my ass off, but I'll have huge knockers.  So there's that.

Posted by: Jane D'oh! at December 10, 2009 07:04 PM (UOM4

Send pictures! Thank me!

213 When they say the "hottest on record", they are talking about the last 150 years or so( thermometer data). So that's misleading as well. It's easy for the public to hear the "hottest on record" shit and think the "hottest ever".

214 The Shepster was all gushing over the Nutless Wonder, Prez Prissypants in Norway.  I keep trying to imagine The Won in boot camp or basic.  My mind finds it impossible to go there.

215 >>>limate does change. So what? Come on, same thing, when you say "I belive in climate change," what the hell do you think most people take that to mean?

216 Ace: all this talk of third parties-- PURE MADNESS.

We do not have the luxury of fucking about, gentlemen.

Agreed. Get a non-Donk majority first. If you want a conservative party, get involved in the Republican Party and make it conservative. There are no third party shortcuts.

No one votes for third parties in the US. No one.

217 We don't get Fox Business channel here.  Sucks.  I'd watch Stossel any day over the Big O.  But I'll watch him tonight just to see how Megyn Kelly looks post baby.

218 I think Sarah did hit the right zone on this, highlighting the data being shown to have been fucked with, reminding that the science is in question, and hitting the greenie proposals from the economic/energy independence/national security angle with big fat common sense cluebats. A little good old American Nationalism/sovereignty fuck you to the UN doesn't hurt, either.

219

( thermometer data)

Makes you wonder where the hell they stuck that thermometer.

220 This was a smart move by Palin.  She is not letting the left define the debate.  In the Gore lexicon "climate change" means AGW.  And someone who does not accept the hypothesis of AGW is branded a "climate change denier."  Hence a person who fails to accept the premise that humans cause climate change is tarred by the suggestion of not recognizing that the earth's temperature has changed over time regardless of cause.  (Ironically, it's Fat Al, Mann, Jones, Briffa, and rest of the hockey stick charlatans who deny climate change prior to the Industrial Revolution and increase in CO₂ levels in the atmosphere.)  Palin refuses to accept the left's definition of "denier" and calls out ManBearPig for spinning the truth.  Good for her.

The next move is for people like Palin and Inhofe to not let this issue drop.  They must use the opportunity of Climategate to expose how dependence on government funding corrupts science. It provides an incentive for researchers to exagerrate the importance of their particular area of research to the point of Chicken Little hyperbole in order to motivate politicians to pump billions into that area.  As we see with NASA and EPA, federal bureaucrats can build their empires and increase their funding and power by adding to the noise.  Left wing politicians see opportunity to gain power over people's lives by inceasing the level of hysteria unless the Nanny State steps in to solve the problem.  Of course, the media plays along because impending disaster is a good story and because the proposed political solutions fit their ideology.  More power to Palin.  Her message is not only right.  It is necessary.

221

231. Makes you wonder where the hell they stuck that thermometer.

ah shit, must not type response on tips of my fingers.  grrrrrrrr

222 Ah, so you are simply arguing tactics then.

Yea, I could see benefit to just attacking AGW, and not worrying about real climate change ... can't fix a solar caused ice age or warming period regardless.

223 211
LOL! You probably didn't see my post the other night on the ONT because of the Banhammer thread, but the gem you dropped on the Russian nightclub thread was classic. "That looks like third year anniversary dancing, at best". Still laughing over that one.


I thought that one might have offended some people. Even people here. Thanks for the compliment.

224

climate change is “a principle in physics. It’s like gravity. It exists.”

I remember way back in high school physics, we did an experiment to determine acceleration due to gravity, using Hot Wheels track and cars, with electronic timers.  As a joke, I brought in a Sizzler (a battery-powered Hot Wheel) and, with the teacher watching so he could see I wasn't pushing the car at the start, ran the experiment.  Obviously, I determined a much higher value than 9.8 m/sec/sec since I was adding another source of acceleration.

Thinking back on that, I chose the wrong career path.  I should have been a climatologist.

225 Runningrn, you know she's going to look amazing. 

226 She just said what was logical: climate has always changed, but there's not enough evidence to convince any rational person that humans are causing it now, and the data looks cooked. Pretty straight forward.

227 Well, if the next ice age is coming, I hope we have another hurricane-free summer in '10. 

228 NY Times says that ACLU pres Anthony Romero was told that Gelbaum was pulling back donation to "sister organizations".  They report that Gelbaum is not contributing to three of these sister organization.  They list the ACLU and the Sierra Club.  Gelbaum is a big time supporter of Shamnesty.  He's threatened to pull funding if any org takes an "anti-immigrant" stance.

The third group has to be a Shamnesty group or Planned Parenthood.

229 Sarah should have called the AGW "scientists" Truth Panels.  You know, get kind of a theme going.

230 @215 "We do not have the luxury of fucking about, gentlemen."

That means WE can do all the fucking about for you gents!

231 Not now. This regime is going to frigging destroy America. It is not, in my opinion, the time to take the position that "an honest loss would do the party some good." I happen to agree. I'm just a little bit more of the "we could have won with a more conservative cadidate" type. Which is the way I feel about alot of races. I also agree America faces a serious threat to freedom embodied in the collectivism of this regime. That threat has taken many forms. Socialized medicine, currency devaluation and economic contraction, but not the least of which is global governance to control "climate change" so I am hypersensitive to how many inches "our side" gives up, just like spendulus/healthcare (Thats right I'm looking at you Olympia)

232 Palin could not be clearer: she doesn't know because the science is uncertain and very possibly flawed, and she does not believe that mankind is causing significant climate change. I have no idea what it is for which I must give her a break.

On climate change, we are all "uninformed boobs", even those who won't admit to it -- hopefully, science will someday give us a better understanding one way or another.

Still, boob or not, don't lie to me, okay Ace? That was a stupid thing for you to admit, that you would lie to get your way. How can I trust anything you write after that? How am I to know if I am insider enough that what you feed me is not a line of horse shit?

Also, elect a liar and what you get is lied to, a dream candidate who was nothing but a dream.

It is time to tell the truth. 20 years of cynical lies and playing the margins is what got us where we are today.

End of my rant.

233

Um, Al.  Gravity is not a "scientific principle".  It is a fundamental force, or a warping of space-time if you prefer.

A scientific principle would be more like "Al Gore wouldn't know a principle, scientific or otherwise, if it walked up to him and pissed on his leg."  See the difference?

234

Speaking as a "new" climate scientist, I just think that you all should have the benefit of my point of view;

Do humans polute?  Yes.

Should they?  No.  To the extent possible they should protect the environment.

Should governments attempt to control pollution?  Yes, using the Hippocrates as our guide - first do no harm.

Should governments incentivize technologies that help this?  Yes, paraphrasing Hippocrates - do only good.

The virgin gaia lovers are running for the cliff, and in their minds, we just don't know that following them in their rush to the sea is good for us so we should be compelled to follow them.

There is nothing wrong with protecting the environment and there is nothing wrong with incentivizing private industry to come up with profitable solutions to those problems.  What is wrong however, is forcing one set of people to accept the dictates of another set of people's dictates who have been self appointed as stewards of the planet and all life thereon.

If the leftists are so distraught over our destroying the planet and therefore their children's future, they should just think of their children as pre-aborted fetuses since, as we know they are not 'living'.

 

235 Integrity like anything ele has a price. i don't want to pay it.

Posted by: ace at December 10, 2009 05:54 PM (jlvw3)

Do I need to get Vinnie Falcone in here to ride your ass?

236 It's a dance if she says oh I DO believe in Global Warming but she is implying that means what people think "global wamring" means, specifically, anthropogenic global warming.

Posted by: ace at December 10, 2009 06:24 PM (jlvw3)

She danced even better than that: she said climate change (not global warming) is real, and then said she doesn't think human activity is its main cause. A perfect jetée and pirouette.

Perhaps he’s right. Climate change is like gravity – a naturally occurring phenomenon that existed long before, and will exist long after, any governmental attempts to affect it.

However, he’s wrong in calling me a “denier.” As I noted in my op-ed above and in my original Facebook post on Climategate, I have never denied the existence of climate change. I just don’t think we can primarily blame man’s activities for the earth’s cyclical weather changes.

237 "When a man lies, he murders a part of the world" -- Merlin (Excalibur)

238 @252 Hussein the Plumber

There is nothing wrong with protecting the environment and there is nothing wrong with incentivizing private industry to come up with profitable solutions to those problems.

Yes, there is.  Giving the government the power to "incentivize" is a big mistake.  Because so many people are comfortable with this kind of retardedness, we inevitably get to:

"forcing one set of people to accept the dictates of another set of people's dictates who have been self appointed as stewards of the planet and all life thereon."

239 Sarah should have called the AGW "scientists" Truth Panels.  You know, get kind of a theme going.

Posted by: Cicero at December 10, 2009 07:17 PM (QKKT0)

Yes, but to be consistent that the panels produce evilness, she would have to call them Falsehood Panels, or Fraud Panels, or Deception Panels, or maybe even Hide the Decline Panels.

240 Gore is right in one way. Climate change is a natural phenomenon "just like gravity". But nobody is stupid enough to organize an international effort costing trillions of dollars to try to repeal gravity. That's the difference.

241 >>>I'm just a little bit more of the "we could have won with a more conservative cadidate" type. I honestly am too. Maybe you are more so than me, but I am not far behind. I am just a few degrees away, just urging you: "Yes, yes, I get where you are coming from, but please, do not get so greedy to run up the score you give the ball away."

242 >>>When a man lies, he murders a part of the world" -- Merlin (Excalibur) But WHICH part, man? I wouldn't mind some parts getting offed.

243 "When a man lies, he murders a part of the world" -- Merlin (Excalibur)

Posted by: Zimriel at December 10, 2009 07:33 PM (04p0/)

Yes, but Excalibur was a fictional movie, which is itself a form of lie.

244 Gore is right in one way. Climate change is a natural phenomenon "just like gravity". But nobody is stupid enough to organize an international effort costing trillions of dollars to try to repeal gravity. That's the difference.

Posted by: DaMav at December 10, 2009 07:35 PM (QNU76)

WINNAH!

245 Damn. The Ewok sure has been loquacious this week.

He talks a lot too.

246 256 - Don't leave Hippocrates out of the equation - I agree that government should not necessarily be the impetus for these things, but the alternative, the free market, is not perfect either.  If it was I would agree with you.  In the end, if it does no harm then it wouldn't necessarily be a bad thing for government to offer tax breaks or other incentives, as they extensively do anyway, to get things started toward an eventual market based solution.

247

You know the entire libraries of unmitigated nonsense the American public has grown to believe in over the last 50 years?

Bullshit. We're totally rational. That's why we take our kids' Halloween candy to the hospital to be X-rayed for hidden razor blades.

248 So, we're supposed to listen to Mr. C Fuckin' Minus at Harvard on this science stuff???  Fuck 'im

249 At the risk of being tedious, Global warming BY DEFINITION has been ocurring since the bottom of the last ice age. (That is what Palin said.)  It will continue to warm (or did continue to warm) until we turn (did turn) the corner had head back down again.

It is too early to say that we have turned, but that is clearly the way to bet.

Making Gore and a few others richer is not going to materially affect any thing except our freedom to prosper.

250 260 >>>When a man lies, he murders a part of the world" -- Merlin (Excalibur)

But WHICH part, man?

I could do without the Himalayas. First, their riddled with Chinese. Second, I get the impression they think they're better than us.And third, their thinking on climate change disturbs me.

251 Did I mention the Himalayas are riddled with Chinese?

252 That was a well reasoned and temperate post Ace.  It is the way you fight for your principles in a democracy.  You bide your time until you can persuade a majority, you compromise and try other plays other than Off Left Tackle repeat endlessly.  The Left knows this way of politicking instinctively.  However the difference is that they are intrinsically tyrants and dishonest, the ends always justify the means.  

The Right thinks sheer honesty, brutal honesty will win the day.  But people "can't handle the truth."  Not all at once.  From a Christian perspective the early church was effective because it emulated what Paul did, where he said, to the Romans I was a Roman, to the Corinthians (dock workers and prostitutes etc) I was a Corinthian.  Paul did not speak in King James around a bunch of tough men, he related on their level. 

When with Royalty he related to them as a highly educated and intelligent man.  Somewhere we have lost some ability to relate.  Most Americans are not like Morons, they are politically apathetic, or oblivious.  They are busy taking kids to soccer practice and making a living.   A quick fix from ABC, CBS, NBC is how they view the world, until something like this human-wrecking machine of Obama begins destroying their way of life at a fast enough rate to be noticeable and they begin to educate themselves. 

We need to be there, if possible, to show the way, to help, not to alienate what to us seems to be pretty stupid and apathetic people.  Sound principles and a worldview should be your foundation to which you are always tethered, yet conservatives many times are hemmed in and restricted by an almost formulaic observance to those principles.   Lincoln was accused of being in love with black people by one side and being dishonest if he did not love black people by the other side.  He responded something like; I do not have to marry a black woman to be repulsed by human slavery.

253

Water from a plastic bottle just tastes better.

254 @264 HtP

The unintended consequences of incentives flies in the face of your Hippocrates approach.  In order to get to incentives, we have to determine:

1.  What behavior we want

2.  How to make people behave that way

This is too open-ended and gets us into the kind of situation where research dollars in search of problems created the AGW "crisis" out of whole cloth.

Government should be restricted to narrower objectives such as proscribing behavior that commits observable harm to individuals served by the government.

255 Okay.

256 That's too bad. Stossel is one of the good guys. With BOR's ratings, though, he'll get eaten alive.

Posted by: OregonMuse at December 10, 2009 07:06 PM (tClfg)

They should have fired Shemp Smith's pansy ass, and installed Stossel's Manstache in his time slot.

257

But people "can't handle the truth." 

Clearly false. If I couldn't handle the truth about my weight gain, would I really own this abdomenizer, thigh master, elliptical trainer, and tube of tummy fat vanishing cream?

258 Weird story on Shep about a family that adopted a deer.  Must be due to global warming.

259

Hussein the Plumber errs when he assumes imperfect human beings can organize perfect governments.

The U.S. Constitution is itself based on the idea that government cannot achieve perfection, but instead tends over time not just to reflect human imperfections but to magnify them.

End of story.

260

We don't have to worry about AGW, even if it is true, because the next generation of scientists will be the children raised on Baby Einstein videos.

They will be much more brainy and advanced  than the current crop of adults.

261 >>>That was a stupid thing for you to admit, that you would lie to get your way. And yet, it was honest. A conundrum. No offense, but I think the portion of people willing to tell a lie to get something important to them is pretty darn high. I really kind of roll my eyes at all this back-patting over supposed moral superiority. Well, maybe. >>>How can I trust anything you write after that? You mean, how can you trust me after I honestly told you that I would lie to get something important to me? >>>How am I to know if I am insider enough that what you feed me is not a line of horse shit? I don't know. Don't trust me. Most of what I say falls into the category of opinion or argument, not "fact." I guess you're saying "how do I know the things you believe are the things you really believe?" You don't. I would say, though, that it's a real pain in the ass to lie too much, especially when you're cranking out a lot of posts and a lot of words. Kind of hard to keep track of your own lies.

262 I don't mean to be too glib about this -- I am too glib; I don't mean to be -- but has it ever occurred to you the person who says "I will never lie to you" is maybe overselling his honesty? I lie. I have lied, and I fully expect I will lie in the future. Furthermore, what I was really talking about was a candidate lying to others and giving me the old "wink-wink." It really strikes me as very optimistic to think a professional politician whose job depends on convincing people to invest him with awesome power is going to abandon the 200,000 year old Miracle Invention of the useful deception.

263 In the end, if it does no harm then it wouldn't necessarily be a bad thing for government to offer tax breaks or other incentives, as they extensively do anyway,

That's the problem though. These incentives don't work because the spending becomes political and only creates greater and greater pork spending, aka corruption. The current pork spree isn't a good idea to continue no matter how wonderful the results you are hoping for.

I'd rather have the free market address the situation with the least amount of interference as possible by the government. Incentives, by definition, are interference. Who's to say that better LED tech is the best candidate for government spending (besides Purple Avenger, that is) ? Or wankel engines? Or cheese?

Given enough power and room, the Fed will fuck up it up. We should only grant them enough power and room to fuck up on their primary missions: Defense of the US and the enforcement of contracts.

264 I lie. I have lied, and I fully expect I will lie in the future.

Posted by: ace at December 10, 2009 08:07 PM (jlvw3)

Please don't say that you are lying now, or I will have to ask Norman to coordinate.

265 @280 Ace,

Furthermore, what I was really talking about was a candidate lying to others and giving me the old "wink-wink."

I don't see how what Sarah Palin has said fits this description.

266 @282 stuiec

Please don't say that you are lying now, or I will have to ask Norman to coordinate.

HARCOURT!   HARCOURT.  FENTON.  MUDD!

267

Any movie that has won an Oscar just has to be worth seeing!

268 The best way to raise healthy, well-adjusted kids is to make them wear bike helmets any time they participate in physical activity.

269 Sarah has battle of wits with unarmed capon aka chicken with no balls

270 Just a a Palin update.  She's in Coeur d'Alene, Idaho and Sandpoint, Id.(born there!) today. She was signing from noon to three and then running up the panhandle 60 miles to sign from 6 to 9 pm.  People camped out last night to be one of only 700 allowed in to the signing.  They say hundreds showed up. 

The temp was 1F last night.  

271

I just came across an ad for an opportunity to make $1635 a day working just 4 hours a week from home.

Seems legit. I think I'll give it a shot.

272 Don't lie to us, lie to women.

273 I don't mean to be too glib about this -- I am too glib; I don't mean to be

Ace, Ace, you don't even - you're glib.

You don't know the history of global warming, I do.  You're being glib.

274 Israel believes in global climate change and has instituted national policies based on that. Saudi Arabia is one of the few countries who deny that the climate is changing

275 John ryan is smart and has a point.

276 See, it doesn't matter. I kind of think she doesn't believe in it this much at all and is just saying she does. Which is the right thing to do. Belief in man-made global warming may be at an all-time low in the US, but it's still at 49% (IIRC). Forty-nine percent. Even with all this stuff being revealed, it's at 49%. And the opposition is only at something like 27%. "Not sure" makes up the rest.

Most of those 49 % believe that AGW can be cured at little or no cost to themselves personally. They always believe that the brunt of the costs will be borne by those evil power and oil company guys who wipe with 1000 dollar bills and "can afford it". At most, their cost to themselves is the liberal DemSM standard measure of "less than a cup of coffee at Starbucks per day".

These same people watch a demonstration of a solar powered home with the panel on the roof and think that just a few more of those sitting out of sight can power every home in Southern California. They don't know the limitations of its output with the present technology or the problems with power delivery from source to substation. The same goes for Obama's Magic Windmills and Algore's Mighty Volcanoes of General Electric.

Once they're paying 8 bucks a gallon for rationed gas and screaming at the kids to turn the light off and don't leave the tv on, while still having to scrape a thick glaze of ice to get into the car, the little sacrifices really start to suck.

277 About the only thing Palin didn't do right in her debate-lette with Gore was call him "the Manbearpig."  That would have destroyed him with young people.

Anyways, good job Gen. Palin.  Lead on!

278

Does she really believe in it as much as she says? See, it doesn't matter. I kind of think she doesn't believe in it this much at all and is just saying she does.

Why do I have to continue to choose my conservative standard-bearers this way: Do they, or do they not, believe what they are saying about the most pressing, fundamental issues of our time?

 

 

279

Hey HeatherRadish, I found some extra support of Palin's position embedded in your post -

They're not mutually exclusive positions...  European ships traveling through the St. Lawrence Seaway introduced zebra mussels to the Great Lakes--there's no sand left on the Wisconsin beaches of Lake Michigan, just piles and piles of zebra mussel shells (I exaggerate for effect, but not much).  But that doesn't mean those ships are causing "global warming" much less that taxing their fuel is going to "save the Planet."

Ya'll know what those piles of zebra mussel shells will be once a cyclical change in the ecosystem hits 'em?

Sand.

280 I disagree that Palin appeared to be—in any way—a natural climate change denialist (one who denies the naturalness of climate change). She just made the only logical statement that can be made, based on the science as it stands.

A) CO2 is part of the equation, somewhere, but nobody knows to what extent, or even if its contribution (however small) drives climate in only one direction.

B) Nobody knows how much the man-contributed CO2 alters the natural equation, if at all.

C) Nobody knows if warming will be all good (as many think it will be) or if it will be bad. Nobody.

D) We do know that industry and personal forms of combustion (autos, mowers, farts) do add a lot of carbon. So we can't say that it has zero impact. We just don't know whether the impact is good, bad, or indifferent. It might turn out that the human-caused roach population explosion is what really will kill us all. Who. Freaking. Knows?

Given the above... then hell, yeah, the question of whether "we can primarily blame manÂ’s activities" or not, needs to be answered exactly how she answered it. That's the logic of the situation. That's the way you answer it.

This doesn't cause Palin to be like Newt or other beltway types that caution us that we'd better take the question more seriously. Theirs is an entirely different take on things, and is profoundly more related to the quest for political power than it is to "leadership." Especially when major fraud is being perpetrated with regard to the supposed science.

281 The only person I acknowledge is harder core is a commenter, who I respect, but who's pushing the idea that this is all a big conspiracy to impose world socialism, funded by the Club of Rome.

Haha. I wonder what crazy nut said that. *cough*

I disagree with Ace about "philosophical purity. I'm not a "party purity" girl. I know there are always going to be differences in opinions on different issues within a party. But on single issues, I expect a politicians to be honest and upfront about their stands. I don't trust mealy mouthed hedgers. I despise b.s.

I respected Giuliani for not hedging on abortion to please the pro life base, even though I disagree with him on that issue.

Honesty is the best policy. I know you learned that in kindergarten.

Sarah Palin thinks so, too, if you read her book. She was never more frustrated than when she was coached to give non answers for interviews and the debates.

282

Ace,

I would agree with you if you did not just say the opposite about the birther issue  when Palin did the "not sure"  its a "fair question."   and before you say that is different it is not. Polls show 58% of the GOP consider it a fair topic.  Many conservative dems and independents also consider it a fair question.

 

So Palin reaches out to those people while at the same time she says she doesn't believe it  but that is a fair question.   And you go nuts on her for it. 

 

You can not have it both ways just because one issue you agree with and another YOU think is screwy.   Palin is playing chess here  not checkers. 

 

She reached out to her base on the BC issue.  She planted a seed of doubt about Obama.   she reached out to the base and the "not sures" on AGW.    Both were very good politcal moves.  both advanced her standing with the groups she was trying to reach why not hurting her standing with her present supporters. 

 

Most of the Tea Party folk think the BC is a fair issue.  Most of the moderates in the GOp do not.  Most of the moderate GOP is the not sure camp IRT AGW.  she is doing the dance and it is good.

 

283

Hellfire, I believe in climate change.  Those Norskis were making wine back in  Greenland around 700 years ago.  Couldn't plant a goldang vineyard there these days, so it's getting colder. Weather and climate change alla time--just about as often as Joe Biden changes his shorts.

 

But I liked watching Palin kick old Al Gore (what did that wimp do to get a Nobel?) square in the middle of his undescended testicles in this exchange.  You go girl!  But you leave the Won alone now, you heah! 

 

 

284 Maybe I don't read the comments closely enough, but I've never seen anybody impute bad faith to Ace.  Is it just an excuse to go on a rant?  If so, knock yourself out hoss.

285 She said she believes in climate change, not anthropological (man-made) climate change. Big difference. Climate changes. Has for years. Man is to puny to have much, if any, effect on it.

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287 Take a look at who won the Nobel Prize for medicine in 2006. The science was settled and all of the experts agreed - until this guy came along and turned the whole thing upside down.

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