1 I ain't fuckin paying it, they can kiss my ass.

2 PA, it is still enforced by the IRS.  Which means your due process rights are significantly curtailed -- and any action by the IRS on one area of your relationship is likely to expand to cover all aspects of your financial relationships.

3 Im also sure a fine indexed to geography or economic class is going to have some Constitutional implications.

4

I said it on the other thread as well.  Let them pass whatever garbage they want to, I am nobody's slave and I refuse to participate. 

Oh and Jack, please be carefull who you let kiss your bits.  You never know who they've serviced.

5 Well, what's going to happen is a lot of people will adjust their withholding amounts a bit so there's no income tax refund coming and they wind up owing a couple hundred at the end of the year rather than getting a couple hundred back.

All those interest free loans people used to give the government are going to decline.

6 If you want to get this kind of legislation stopped, try sending someone that actually believes in the Constitution to Congress.  Please check out Peg Dunmire at http://www.dunmireforcongress.com/ and vote for her at the Guetzloe Report's Online Poll at http://www.guetzloe.com/01_homepg.html. She's trying to unseat Alan Greyson(D) in FL-08.

7 Oh, gee, I feel better now.  Bless their hearts.  For a while there, I thought Pelosi would come for me personally.

Now, where'd my 1040 go again?

8

If by now, you cannot see Harry Reid and Nancy Pelosi and we'll add Al Gore for the low i.q. clusterfux that they are, you are probably a LIBTARD.

These people are rowing their way towards Niagra Falls and they don't care.  This is about how powerful they are and how much they can accomplish, regardless of the fall out.   The Democrat Party can pass any bill they like, adding a couple ice cubes to a glass of piss, doesn't make it any more tasty.

These fucktwats are force feeding America a SHIT SANDWICH, but they've added a little Miracle Whip and they have bought off immoral LIBTARD Senators who apprarently either know better or negotiate better.

9 If we're going to make them bend, make them keep out the public option or any trigger therefor. It's bad enough that they're making us buy insurance -- making it so that your employer dumps you into the public pool is a disaster waiting to happen.

10 any action by the IRS on one area of your relationship is likely to expand to cover all aspects of your financial relationships.

The bulk of the people who this fine would apply to aren't likely to be major audit wins for the IRS.  They expect to get over $100 in additional tax for every hour they spend with a taxpayer sitting in front of them.  If that ain't gonna happen, they don't bother with you.

Back in the late 80's and early 90's I went for a period of about 7 years without filing a tax return.  My withholding was set so I'd always have a little bit coming back, but not so much it was worth the agony of going after.  If they owe you money even if its only a dollar, there are no penalties for not filing!  I basically ignored tax season and my psyche and blood pressure benefited greatly for having done it.

Then one year they decided they were going to come after me for some reason and started garnishing wages.  I went down to their offices and said: "OK, I'll file if you really want me to, but you're going to be writing ME a check rather than the other way around".  So I filed a few years worth of returns, they wrote me a fat check, and I never heard from them again.  Its my opinion, my records have the "don't fuck with this guy, he'll burn us" flag set on them.

11 When they insert language that compels all members of Congress to have donkey sex on the Capital steps, I'll believe they are serious about running the Nation well.

12 I can't decide on what I am more pissed about.

That they are actually going to take over health care, or that no one batted an eye with the Landrieu payoff.

There used to be a time in this country when if the any elected official tried to pull that Louisiana bullshit they would have found their head on a pike.

13

Joncelli,  this whole LIBTARD Marx-a-thon, is about the PUBLIC OPTION.

 

That's the point.

14 I always throw 'em a bone - if I can find my 1040.  I figure it's my share of the DOD which I'm happy to pay.  In fact, with the right foreign policy, they could send me a bigger bill and I'd pay it.  But we haven't had a decent foreign policy since Reagan.

15 I'm so eager to pay more for substandard service.  Unless they for doctors at gunpoint to accept those patients, you'll be getting the quacks, incompetents, and fucking witch doctors.

16 Bend? Are you kidding? These are crumbs thrown to the masses so they don't burn down the Congress.

17 PJ, if you hit enough singles, you win the game.  Home runs are spectacular, but there's other ways to win too.

18

Old Sailor, I have bad news.   I spoke with Sebelius and your "bone" was sent directly to Planned Parenthood/The Death Hut.

You see, if you give government money, THEY decide how it is spent.  NOT YOU.

19 I'll believe that they bend and not hit us with criminal penalties when Pelosi Jail doesn't make it out of Reconciliation.

20 2 jobs ago, I had a pretty cool boss.  I talked him into changing me over to contract pay, and taking me off the hourly payroll.

We split the extra money 80(me)/20(them) from not paying into all the other crap, and I almost made more than the regional mgrs. at the place.  Tax wise when you are a contractor, everything is a write off.

21 Loss for words. I will not settle for this. I will not allow a
2.4Trillion Dollar Boondoggle be placed as a yoke upon my back and that of my children.  There is no compromise. NONE.

Oh, They'll not throw me in jail now? NEAT! Hallelujah! ok. I'm good with that?!!? What kind of deal are we making with these devils?

This country has 6 months, at best. Go over to zerohedge and take a look at  Society Generale's doomsday scenario. 

No one wants to believe the worst.  Guess what?  Better start getting a grip on the reality we're facing.  But, as Scarlett O'hara said best, "I'll think about that tomorrow".   

22 What an innovative idea, gus.  We check which fund we want our "taxes" (slavery payments) applied to, and they're required by law to apply them there.

Bad news, however.  The Congress doesn't obey their own law, let alone the Constitution.

This Congress needs to disband.  The States should demand it, and if they don't, suspend involvement in the Union until this mess is cleaned-up.

23 if you give government money, THEY decide how it is spent.  NOT YOU.

That's how the lottery bait/switch always works.  Sell it as "for the kids", but use the money to offset education spending (thus generating a net effective increase in your general fund you can then squander), not enhance education spending. 

The public falls for this hokum every time, and the states keep running that same game every time.

24 We check which fund we want our "taxes" (slavery payments) applied to, and they're required by law to apply them there.

Gosh, what democratic notion.  I wonder how many people would check the box for "researching the sex lives of blind cave fish in the Andes mountains"?

25

Purple Avenger, you're on fire.  Your last 2 posts were spot on.

If the LIBTARDS wanted to help all the 5-55 million poor souls who were dying awful painful deaths and were living with cancer and tape worm, why didn't the LIBTARDS figure a way to help these 5-199 million poor souls. (Al Gore math).  They didn't.  The LIBTARDS have created a new standard for ALL CITIZENS.  Higher taxes and the 1984 LADA CONVERTIBLE.

More taxes, more FREEBIES for those that DemoTARDS pander to.  Less freedom, less ingenuity, less investment, less choice, less quality, less quality care, less Doctors willing to make the sacrifices necessary, in order to achieve a return on their monetary, educational, personal sacrifice and numerous years of their YOUTH, in order to be rewarded by serving and being REWARDED in the Capitalist System.

In other words, the LIBTARDS that occupy most of Washington, are jealous of the Golden Goose.  These LIBTARDS pander to constituent groups who ARE NOT winners, and ARE NOT achievers, and ARE NOT skilled or qualifed.  And they drag the TOP DOWN to make the BOTTOM....HAPPY.

 

No one wins.  No one.   Except loser politicians with no morals, no principles, no character, low i.q.'s and low standards.

These HACKS are not fixing anything.  They are shifting YOUR MONEY to someone else, and they are REWARDING those who HAVE NOT SUCCEEDED by dragging down the rest.

Lastly, those in POWER, add this 1/6th of our ECONOMY to THEIR PERVIEW.   They are not experts on anything, but think they are experts on EVERYTHING.

26 So did the CBO score this version?

Here's the deal: the PelosiPrisons most likely kept the costs down.

Besides, with Obamaflation, won't COLA be about 200%?

27 You're on fire, too, gus.  Nice.  And thanks, Purple Avenger for the post.  Actually, I don't feel any better.  I keep blurting out things like "Shut 'em down."  "It aint' their money."   "Screw their so called 'social contract.'"   "Oh, go blow your stench!"

28 Hereby Proclaimed as the New Declaration of Independence of 2009: No member of the Democrat Party shall survive the next opportunity of the People of the United States to vote upon their incumbency, nor shall any Democrat be elected upon such occasion, they having demonstrated their intent to destroy the foundations of the Nation.

29 Purple Avenger: "PUBLIC PRESSURE APPARENTLY CAN GET ASPECTS OF THIS SHIT SANDWICH CHANGED."

I admire your optimism, but even bacon won't make it go down better. Anything that gets passed now given what we know of the goals is poison. A slight tweak now is merely a brief deferment to be reinserted in a few days, weeks, months, or political terms from now. We're going to be force-fed, bite by bite if necessary, until it chokes us. All the Pelosi-Reid Congress is doing with process is flavoring it just enough so that we won't openly revolt acutely and wholsale.

That doesn't mean we don't fight like the dickens to reject this both before and after it passes, even to the point of open revolt/civil disobedience; however, this is all a game to our government. We frogs will continue to boil unless and until we rotate out every critter in DC. I'm afraid we need a tantrum that throws everyone out. Even "good" ones. The really good ones can apply again after a term of vacation.

I have zero faith in the institution and believe it to be a lost cause at the federal level. It is corrupt to the core.

30

How did the CBO score this version?

Wow.   The "CONCEPT" of the CBO is PROOOOOOF that Governemnt is fucked up.  Think about it.   Some fucktard rights a bill and an "independent" group "scores" it.  The independent group is IN and OF itself a TEAT SUCKING GOVERNMENT BLACK HOLE OF SPENT TAX MONEY.

This CBO, does not make a LOGICAL, nor MORAL judgement about the NONSENSICAL BULLSHIT BILL that some LIFE LONG TIT SUCKER wrote.  It merely tells us how much the bill will THEORETICALLY COST, based on the LIES written within.

LAYER UPON LAYER UPON LAYER OF BULLSHIT.  And we don't just laugh at the Congressional Budget Office's concept at face value.

 

31 I don't think they are bending from pressure ... the jail time thing was probably always a throw away, so they can pretend to be "compromising" ... if we are forced to eat the rest of the shit sandwich, is it really a victory?

Even if the public option is not in ... they will still screw up private  insurance by controlling who they have to insure and at what rates ... which would seem to triple premiums for the normal healthy person. 

Meanwhile trial lawyers are still untouchable, and other special interests are probably crafting the whole friggin thing, along with the invisible Marxist type authors of those 2000 pages.

There whole thing is crap ... just bigger government with loads of new agencies to control the recalcitrants.

32 Damn,  and I was hoping our new slogan would be: Welcome to america, get your health insurance in 90 days or go to jail biatch.

33 the PelosiPrisons most likely kept the costs down.

Yea, I believe incarcerating Federal prisoners costs in the range of $30-40K/yr.

34 We're but an electoral 'organism' with 52% of our body rotting away from philosophical cancer.  The cancer has been growing for over 100 years culminating in the Obama/Reid/Pelosi "Health Care" bill.  The irony of it all.

35  AnonymousDrivel at November 22, 2009 01:11 AM (swuwV)

And YOU are one of the reasons why I come here, AD. Nicely done.

36

Thank you Sailor.

What we have going on, is that Democrats don't care what you think.  They have long ago  stopped caring.   I was once a Democrat, and when I realized that the people within the party that I believed in, were phonies, frauds and idiots, it hurt.   I trusted them.  I believed in the little guy, I believed in helping the poor, I believed in equal and civil rights.  I believed in peace and justice.  LIBTARDS didn't and don't.  By and large, I've learned that Democrat/Libtards are either naive, stupid or dependent on government.  Those who INFEST and INFECT the leadership of the Democrat/Libtard party are so far removed from VALUES, TRUTH, HONESTY, PATRIOTISM or REALITY as to be scary.   Some LIBTARDS, some LIBTARD/DEMOCRAT leaders, have no idea how normal people live, they are deluded and live in a bubble, but MOST are DISHONEST HACKS.   They probably started out as IDEALISTS, but long ago left the TRACKS.

Pelosi is a nut, hag and lying windbag.  Reid is a corrupt, money grubbing political lifer-hack, with very very very little marketable skill at anything.  Reid is the kind of person that has very little to offer, and works the system and will do or say ANYTHING for power.  He is corrupt and his children are following in his footsteps.  Can ANYONE tell me a positive trait of Reid.

37 the jail time thing was probably always a throw away

Not for Pelosi.  She knows if single payer is the endgame it will have to be at gunpoint. 

38 Meanwhile trial lawyers are still untouchable

I think that's the best line of attack.

39 Can ANYONE tell me a positive trait of Reid.

I don't think he has a collection of 20 bodies under his front porch.  That counts for something, doesn't it?  Maybe my expectations for politicians are too low?....

40 Maybe PA, but they can bankrupt you before putting you in jail anyway ... but yeah, jail time does give it a little kicker.  Jail was only for those that refused to even pay the fine, as far as I know.Who would choose prison over a $2000 fine?

It was a point that got a lot of headlines, now people feel like it is a victory to remove it ... seems like a strategy to me. 

41

Bill.  The ENTIRE CONCEPT of this bill is CORRUPT.  Obama, Pelosi and Reid are GOING TO GET THEIR BILL, regardless of what it is, what it costs, what it says, how much it destroys liberty, no matter how many more jobs it destroys, no matter what people say or want, and no matter what you think.

They are out of control LIBTARDS.  Obama is a MARXIST and does not care about the damage he does.
Reid is a fucking idiot and actually believes he is important and is out to prove so, despite destroying his own career.  He'll still be rich and retire in style.
Pelosi is a SAN FRANCISCO fucking idiot.  No brain, no values and no morals.  She is  a lifelong Libtard hack, as her Father was a fuck-up Union -man Mayor of  Baltimore.  She is rich through her husbands business ventures in which he/she DO NOT use UNION LABOR at  GOLF COURSES, VINEYARDS nor HOTELS.  She is a phony, a fraud, a liar, a bitch and the TYPICAL SAN FRANCISCO LIBERAL.  She believes that ANYTHING GOES, as long as YOU  pay for the fall out.

 

42 They probably started out as IDEALISTS, but long ago left the TRACKS.

Gus, the main problem is that the ideals have been codified that they don't think.  They genuinely think universal health care is compassionate, no matter how many people have to be killed to get us there.

It really starts with believing that you can be generous with other peoples' money.

43

The idea that these CLOWNS have the brains or foresight to understand what they are doing is comical.

Libtards NEVER understand what they are doing, because the make decisions that will NOT fuck them later, they will fuck you.

IF LIBTARDS were held PERSONALLY RESPONISIBLE for the consequences of their actions or decisions......they would not be LIBTARDS.

Bottom line.  LIBTARDS don't pay for their failures.  You do.  And the DO NOT CARE.  They don't.   They won, when they got re-elected.

44   She knows if single payer is the endgame it will have to be at gunpoint.

Wow. just, wow. 

I like to believe that these blogs, the tone and tenor, were originally just for fun/amusement/venting.  Over time, I have come to realize it is a thinking organism, a vast collection of thought that culminates in understanding, reason, action.

What you just said, above, is stunning in its simplicity. Bald in its truth.

Yes. they will effect change, at the point of a gun.  I do not discount the power of that statement, PA.  History does not lie.

We live in interesting times, indeed.  It must be stopped. Now.

45 I think that's the best line of attack.

Its a good one.  This bill doesn't seem to do anything try and tamp down genuine malpractice in the field (i.e. find an expeditious way to get rid of known bad doctors) or malpractice insurance.

I have a retired friend who was one of the best vascular surgeons in the country.  He says there's a fair amount of cutters out there that shouldn't even be working at an animal hospital who kill patients on a regular basis due to ineptness.

46 Indeed, this whole government is out of order.  Over the years, think how many times the argument about holding a second Constitutional Convention has ended with "We can't risk screwing-up the Constitution!"

Maybe this time, we simply have to take the risk.

47

O/T

Would Andrew Brietbart make a good campaign organizer, or guru like Carl Rove?

 

just wondering, especially after reading "Going Rogue". Yeah i finished that one 

48 He says there's a fair amount of cutters out there that shouldn't even be working at an animal hospital who kill patients on a regular basis due to ineptness.

Wait until they start being imported from the Third World en masse like in Britain.

With our legal system, single-payer health care or anything close to it will be far more disastrous than the disaster it is in Canada and the UK.

49 Who would choose prison over a $2000 fine?

Anyone whose living standard is below that of a minimum security Federal prisoner. 

Three free meals a day, free cable TV, laundry done for you, tennis/bocci courts, library on site.  For a lot of people "just getting by", a minimum security Federal prison is a distinct lifestyle upgrade.

50 starting to bend? huh? it's not soooooo bad? what?

look, this is starting to piss me off. this isn't a case of just a little bit of government control being okay. no way. first of all, the taxes start immediately, while the program doesn't go into effect til...oh...what was it, 2013? take a look at medicare, take a look at social security, then tell me that this isn't somehow the biggest piece of crapola to come out of capital hill since the so-called new deal. these morons on capital hill can't even manage the programs that are already in existence!  it's government interference in the market place that has caused the costs of health care to sky rocket in the first place! from the housing meltdown, to the soon-to-come student loans meltdown, the one constant in the whole equation is the meddling of the government. ayn rand was right!

we will end up with a two tiered health care system, where the super rich can get any procedure or test they desire (they can pay for it), while the rest of us have to wait in line for months and years and possibly die waiting. sure, people think it's bad now, but sorry...a small minority of americans are without insurance. and much of that has to do with thier own poor choices,or simply choosing NOT to have insurance.

not only that, but considering the costs of universal healthcare, the burden that this will place on this country - we will no longer be able to maintain our military. there wont be any new missle systems, or development of new weapons systems of any kind in coming decades. (for those who don't know, many of the advances in medical technology were a result of advances made during the attempt to develop star wars - fyi) of course to the lefitst, this sounds just great. to the occidentalists, a dismarmed america will be just swell! sorry, i am not too keen on the idea and anyone with half a brain isn't going to be too keen on it either. especially when europe is trying to exhume charles martel to no avail, and we won't be able to help them repel the barbarians this time.

this bill just SUCKS. and if there is any way to stop it we absolutely MUST for the sake of the country and future generations. any effort to try to minimize the danger inherent in this bill is beyond offensive.

51

I have a retired friend who was one of the best vascular surgeons in the country.  He says there's a fair amount of cutters out there that shouldn't even be working at an animal hospital who kill patients on a regular basis due to ineptness.

My parents once lived next door to the best heart surgeon in the Midwest. He was Cuban and his wife, also Cuban, was hotter than hell. Anyway, this guy was aces in his field. Took patients from all over the place. One day I'm driving over there with my parents and this Porsche blows through a stop sign and nearly broadsides us. Turns out it was the doctor. I remember saying how he was gonna kill someone one day driving like that. Not a week later he dies in a horrible car accident. They determined he was racing with another doctor on the way to the hospital and lost control of the car. Yeah, driving like teenagers. Fortunately he was the only one killed. Unfortunately his patients had pending surgeries. They had to fly in doctors from NYC to help out.

52

Touche Amish Dude.  
Are you actually Amish?  If so that is interesting.  But to the point.

Yes, their PATHOLOGY has been codified.  
The RICH man who makes 1 MILLION taxable federal income, pays 32 times (approx) more income tax than the guy who makes 50k, is the BAD GUY to CODIFIED LIBTARDS.   The BAD GUY, helps 32 TIMES the poor poor black folk,  or starving children, than the 50K guy does.  The evil, successful, man/woman, who succeeds in our Capitalist society, spends money at restaurants, hotels, and even Wal-Mart., thereby creating or helping to create and propagate jobs, for the LITTLE guy.  Yet LIBTARDS hate that guy and want to take more of his income.  OK.   The BAD GUY is already paying 3 times the RATE of the good guy, but that isn't enough.  I understand the LIBTARD MORONIC VISCERAL MOTIVE.   But is MORONIC.  Taxing the BAD GUY who pays 32 times more than the GOOD GUY, takes the ECONOMY STIMULATING discretionary income from the consumer and gives it to GOVERMENT.  Goverment CREATES NOTHING. 

53 He says there's a fair amount of cutters out there that shouldn't even be working at an animal hospital who kill patients on a regular basis due to ineptness.

I spoke with my 86 y/old Dad yesterday, and he told me of a golf outing he had  25+- years ago in Canada, a club exchange.  He was paired with a canadian surgeon, and universal HC in Canada had recent been implemented.

Asked him what he thought of it. He raved! three days a week. 7 hrs or less a day, no pressure, all the leisure he dreamt of.  At each tee, and each green, he took a slug off the flask.  Dad asked the other members at dinner that night about his "partner".  Oh that lush? God help his next victim.

You think Hasan was hard to get rid of?  Think about how hard it will be to drum out the incompetent one this healthcare debacle gets off the ground.

Word of Advice: Start taking care of yourself.  You don't want to get sick.

54 There's a few bills in congress right now, any one of which are capable of strangling any economic recovery in its crib and triggering a depression.  This is one of them.

55 Oh that lush? God help his next victim.

When Pierre Trudeau's (Canadian PM at the time) mother needed heart surgery years ago, she was brought to my friend, in South FL, not to a Canadian doctor in Canada.

Q.E.D.

And Trudeau tried to stiff him and not pay the bill too ;->

56

44, Derak, I completely agree.  Look at comment 13.   Pelosi and Reid, AND Odumfux, are ALL IN.   I don't understand how intelligent Conservative peeps still don't get it.

Opie, Reid and Pelosi are NOT negotiating, unless the negotiation ends with THE PUBLIC OPTION.

This has NEVER been about helping ANYONE.  Libtards have NEVER been about helping ANYONE.  LIBTARDS are about power.

Un-fucking-fortunately,   LIBTARD PELOSI and LIBTARD REID are being GOADED, MANIPULATED and HERDED by MARXIST OBAMA.

Obama wants to destroy America as we've known it for nearly all of our history.  He wants to recreate a MARXIST UTOPIA that will not, cannot, nor ever will exist.  Pelosi and Reid are just LIBTARD politicians.   Obama  has the MARXIST dream. Pelosi and Reid are merely clowns dabbling at the edges.
Obama is manipulating the CLOWNS.

57

Word of Advice: Start taking care of yourself.  You don't want to get sick.

Well, we're all going to get sick eventually. You can take great care of yourself and still get cancer, brain tumors, and heart attacks. If this passes, pray that you die quickly and relatively painlessly. I'm thinking massive cardiac arrest where you're dead by the time you hit the floor.

58 Hey Purple avenger, never said it before, but you are a great contributor here. Especially appreciate your scientific mind in the more technical posts.
Struggle to understand, but appreciate it none the less. 

Thanks for all you and yer buddies at Ace do for us morons. 

'nite morons.  (oh, by the way, someone at wattsupwiththat  did a bit of research on the most searched keyword at the Climate hacked search engine, and the top key word plugged in so far has been "moron".  It apparently is yielding major hits. See? we're big stuff.)

59 Derak@35,

Thank you. You are too kind.

Yes, I love the assembled mongol hoard here, too. It's really about the only place that keeps me sane. Someone said this yesterday and I thought we were of the same mind: It would be nice to go through one. freakin'. day. without knowing, absolutely knowing, that this government wasn't doing something -and probably something novel - to screw me, my family, and my neighbors over. The elites and their disregard for the intent if not actual letter of the Constitution is pointedly taxing and infuriating.

I really worry about this nation. The disconnect between my beliefs and those in power (moreso the federal than local, and most would define my Senatorial representation as "quite conservative") is profound and seemingly irreparable. I don't think we can recover other than by an illusion of reversal. I fear we will always follow in the footsteps of socialist Europe despite our self-deluded perception that we remain immune to such transformation. I honestly don't know what the national breaking point is and am concerned there actually isn't one - that we'll continue to "evolve" just as we have for over one hundred years.

Sorry to be the cynic but I just haven't seen anything under either party that would convince me that things will substantially improve. Our government is failing and doesn't fear those it leads. This cannot end well.

60 If this passes, pray that you die quickly and relatively painlessly.

I want to die slow enough that I have time to run down my list and settle up some scores first. 

61 The list of programs that need repealing - if repealed - would effectively shut-down the government and require millions of lay-offs:

Social Security
Medicare
Welfare
Food Stamps
Department of Education
Housing and Urban Development (or whatever the hell it's called)
Internal Revenue Service
(etc.)

And now, we're going to add federally administered health care?  And since we can't stop it from passing, how the flying f*ck are we gonna repeal it later when we've never repealed anything like it?

(Honey, can you turn that fat lady opera singer down, please.)

62 I fear we will always follow in the footsteps of socialist Europe...

The only reason that worked for them is they were under our protective umbrella after WWII which drastically contracted their need to spend on defense.

We have no 3rd party protective military umbrellas allowing us similar European levels of fiscal irresponsibility.

For us, the transition could become very ugly.

63

I want to die slow enough that I have time to run down my list and settle up some scores first.

Heh. You know, I was just kidding with those cracks about Jenny Silver. Marvelous singer. SIMPLY MARVELOUS.

*puts on bulletproof vest and looks nervously out window*

64

Derak and Dack.   Both correct.

No matter how well you take care of yourself,  at some point it either breaks down or it fails.

You die or you die after dying.  IT'S PATENTLY MOTHER FUCKING OBVIOUS that that the Opie outlook or the Outlook that Dr.Ezekial Emanuel and other LIBTARD "progressives' share, is that,  as an older AMERICAN CITIZEN, you have LESS VALUE.  It has been calculated by these FUCKTARD LOSERS who themselves have NEVER had any value outside of TAX PAYER FUNDED JOBS.    These sick mother fuckers have LONG AGO bipassed the BABY KILLING issue.  To these Marxist/Statist/Tax funded idiots, there is no moral issue VIS A VIS killing hundreds of thousands of babies TAXPAYER FUNDED annually.  THESE FUX HAVE NO SOUL nor do they claim to.   WHO IS KATHLEEN SEBELIUS???  And who funded her Kansas campaign?

The DISCONNECT, is that these GOVERNMENT LIFERS, these GOVERNMENT FUNDED FUX, don't recognize the VALUE of OUR LIVES.

Our lives create an economy that they can SUCK OFF OF.

They simply don't get it, and they've become completely amoral, which is immoral in my view.

65

Yes, I love the assembled mongol hoard here, too. It's really about the only place that keeps me sane.

Yeah. Think about the old days, before the Internet. I was lucky if I could find a copy of National Review at the bookstore. When I had conservative thoughts, I might as well have been the only conservative in the universe. Fortunately Ronald Reagan's presence convinced me otherwise.

66

Sailor, you are awesome, as is Derak and Purple and Dack.

You gave a list of the programs you'd like to repeal.

I completely agree.  HOWEVER, as much as I find all of those programs continuous FUX-UPS, my current attention is, that we NOT continue to fuck-up and that we DO NOT, MULTIPLY THE FUCK UP PERMANENTLY and at a COST that will DESTROY US.

67 You are too kind, gus.  But it would seem the current game is fixed.  We are momentarily locked in a strange conundrum.

Permit me a trite - but relevant - Star Trek reference:

"You must have faith."
"In what?"
"That the Universe will evolve as it should."

Now, my sleep shall evolve as it should!  Good night.

("Blow their heads clean off." - that's another one. )

68 I realize that even if the GOP wins majority in 2010 that Obama can simply veto any attempt at repealing. Can this whole thing be killed off if a GOP dominated Congress simply refuses any funding?

69

I like the Star Trek reference as you and I both veterans of a more simple day when simple truths and alegories worked.  Star Trek was a anecdotal cultural gem.

Sailor, if I understand you, we are dealing with SHEEP being led by charlatans.

I don't think so.  I don't give the LOSERS being FED, not led, the soft innocent innocous SHEEP reference.  We have a culture of dependence on GOVERMENT/TAXPAYER largesse.  It completely coincides with the LIBTARD ability to RAPE the taxpayer and sell it as HELPING, the needy.

So what we have NOW, is/are millions of people who RELY on Government to pay their bills, feed, clothe and protect them.   If ANYTHING goes wrong.

They SCREAM and SCREEEEEEECH Racism.   And even that nonsensical crap is SUPPORTED by lawyers and "departments" and "Unions" and "Ombudsmen" and "social workers" and "COMMISSIONS" and ...and...and....

We've built a DEPENDENT SOCIETY.   And in doing so, we have trained generations to be DEPENDENT.

Losers, don't KNOW that they are LOSERS.  They KNOW how to WORK THE SYSTEM and they do.

70

The bill can't be contested as unconstitutional until it exists in its final form.

Once a final form is voted through, then we hit the sobs at the Supreme Court level.

71 Sounds like the Democrat's wised up to the fact that if they start throwing people into prison for not buying the right kind of health insurance half the people int the entitlement voting blocks that make up their electoral base would wind up in a federal prison, ensuring that the Democrats would never win another election.

72 But I thought all of this shit was gonna be FREE????

Thanks 52.  Bastards.

73

adding specific language prohibiting any action other than confiscating tax refunds or overpayments that might be coming back to you

This is easily gotten around by merely requiring increased withholding, which I'm sure is probably buried somewhere, if not in this bill, then in some other.  As with other taxes, where you do not personally pay them yourself, you would not pay the noncompliance tax yourself, it would be paid for you by your employer by wage withholding.  Thus, the payment by you would be entirely involuntary. 

And the only way to avoid payment would be to decrease your withholding or to not report the noncompliance on your tax return.  But they might not let you decrease your withholding, or they might impose a penalty for insufficient withholding, or, while they might not charge you criminally for failure to pay, they might prosecute you for submitting a false return if you do not report it.

Make no mistake, any apparent concession on their part IS A SCAM.  You cannot trust these folks.  Not one tiny bit.

74 Damn, going to jail and getting free health care for refusing to pay for my government mandated health care was my favorite part.

75 Hahahaha,, see I told you that I won! OsamaHusseinIslamObama 2012Œ (the terrorist-Uighur-ACORN-media choice) -Itfs never too early to campaign-

76 question? is that 750, per family or per family member?

77 I keep waiting for someone to take these shit sandwiches to court. Someone with money has got to be getting pissed about some of the ridiculous shit they are doing.

I would have thought those AIG folks who had their bonuses confiscated through blatantly ex post facto laws using the tax code would have acted by now.

Folks when the assholes start using the tax code to enforce bullshit because over the years the courts have allowed the tax code to strip you of rights, it is about all over.

78 Old Sailor, just end the practice of witholding -- the rest will tumble down soon thereafter.  The cabinet depts that need to go: Education, HUD, EPA, and Energy, roll what few functions that actually matter into Commerce. 

79

Once a final form is voted through, then we hit the sobs at the Supreme Court level.

 

There will be no option to go to the supremes since they make the laws and can pass anything they wish. If you are not stocking up on ammo and food you are delusional.

80 They are starting to bend.

Bullcrap.  They are taking over a free society in huge bites.  While we sit around and blog.  Melt the phones, are you kidding?

81 gus, we only need about 2.5% of those "sheep" - a small portion of misguided wishful thinking "independents" who put Obama over the top.  That's why we must have "faith" - because American politics often comes down to a thin, tenuous  margin of sanity that keeps reason in charge of our affairs (more or less!).

Jean, I'm the guy that keeps saying "How did my 1040 land in the shitcan?"

Besides, without a little optimism, we might as well 'go rogue' right now.

82 81 exactly.  My husband says the same thing when I despair (being a person with a chronic illness this bill and Dr. Death um Mengele um Emmanuel scares the hell out of me). 

83 It is still a force fed shit sandwich cut in half. No thank you sir I'll not ask for more.

84 Damn, going to jail and getting free health care for refusing to pay for my government mandated health care was my favorite part.

Mine, too.

I think they took it out to avoid creating martyrs/symbols for our cause.  Look at MLK, Nelson Mandela, Solzhenitsyn, etc--huge public sympathy.  Even actual criminals like Tookie and Mumia generate public sympathy.  Imprisoning too many people loses public support too fast.

85 SIGH-OF-RELIEF: Now they can go ahead and pass the bill?!

86 Number 71: Not a problem, only prisoners votes will be admissible.

87

Does anyone have any clue as to what the hell this is all about???

PAGE 1130 Section 5

INSTITUTE.—The term ‘InstituteÂ’ means  the ‘Patient-Centered Outcomes Research InstituteÂ’established under subsection (b)(1).21 ‘‘(b) PATIENT-CENTERED OUTCOMES RESEARCH INSTITUTE.—

23 ‘‘(1) ESTABLISHMENT.—There is authorized to be established a nonprofit corporation, to be known  as the ‘Patient-Centered Outcomes Research InstituteÂ’ which is neither an agency nor establishment of the United States Government.

3 ‘‘(2) APPLICATION OF PROVISIONS.—The Institute shall be subject to the provisions of this section,  and, to the extent consistent with this section, to the District of Columbia Nonprofit Corporation Act.

(3) FUNDING OF COMPARATIVE EFFECTIVENESS RESEARCH.—For fiscal year 2010 and each  subsequent fiscal year, amounts in the Patient-Centered Outcomes Research Trust Fund (referred to in  this section as the ‘PCORTFÂ’) under section 9511 of the Internal Revenue Code of 1986 shall be available, without further appropriation, to the Institute  to carry out this section.

‘‘(c) PURPOSE.—The purpose of the Institute is to assist patients, clinicians, purchasers, and policy-makers in making informed health decisions by advancing the quality and relevance of evidence concerning the manner in which diseases, disorders, and other health conditions  can effectively and appropriately be prevented, diagnosed, treated, monitored, and managed through research and evidence synthesis that considers variations in patient subpopulations, and the dissemination of research findings with respect to the relative clinical outcomes, clinical effectiveness, and appropriateness of the medical treatments,  services, and items described in subsection (a)(2)(B).

88

Reid is playing football Bear Bryant-style. You don't rely on long passes; you run the ball forward three yards at a time. If you stick to the plan, and protect your quarterback and running back, you are guaranteed first downs; and enough first downs guarantees a score. And enough scores wins the game, provided you stiffen up the defense.

So what does Reid know? He knows that many Donk senators are vulnerable next year (including himself). He knows that the health-care overhaul is incredibly unpopular and getting more so; he also knows that it's very popular with the shrill leftist Donk base. He saw the Virginia and New Jersey gubernatorial elections as omens of vast Democratic bloodshed next year, and both he and Pelosi know that if this bill doesn't get through Congress now, it might never get through.

So what you do is, you move the ball forward in small steps. Assure the Senators that this vote is only to begin debate. Even Liebs gets on-board with that one. Then the next vote is for cloture -- again, all the Donks who vote "yes" can claim it was just to end debate, not to pass the bill. It gives them electoral coverage on the actual up/down vote (which only requires 51 votes, not 60). Reid knows that cloture is the big one; he can let some fence-sitters go on the final vote.

And even if the bill gets out of the Senate, it has to go to committee to be harmonized with the House bill, and re-voted, etc. But he's playing small-ball: step by step. Give the vulnerable congressmen and Senators electoral cover: only suborn votes when 60 are needed to pass. He knows, as Pelosi does, that even this strategy is unlikely to benefit people like Blanche Lincoln in the next election, but it's a question of priorities.

The Donks are obviously willing to take a big body-blow to pass this stinking turd of a bill before November of this year, and I think the GOP needs to be ready not just to block the bill, but to repeal it quickly if it does pass. Repealing any law of this kind will be horrendously difficult even with GOP majorities, but it will only get harder as the years go by. (The really noxious effects of this law won't go into effect for 5 or 10 years down the road; the Democrats will howl that the GOP isn't giving the program "time to work".)

 

89

November of this year

November of next year, that is.

90 The fact that there's ANY penalty is still unacceptable!!

91 Tax wise when you are a contractor, everything is a write off.

I am in the same boat.  I can easily get my taxble income down by 25% or more right from the start.

They may strip out PelosiJail now, but they'll sneak it back in later.  They'll tack it on to a defense spending bill so that they can claim any R that votes against it hates the troops.

92 spypeach@87,

Death panel?

93 ‘‘(c) PURPOSE.—The purpose of the Institute is to assist patients, clinicians, purchasers, and policy-makers in making informed health decisions by advancing the quality and relevance of evidence concerning the manner in which diseases, disorders, and other health conditions  can effectively and appropriately be prevented, diagnosed, treated, monitored, and managed through research and evidence synthesis that considers variations in patient subpopulations, and the dissemination of research findings with respect to the relative clinical outcomes, clinical effectiveness, and appropriateness of the medical treatments,  services, and items described in subsection (a)(2)(B).

Posted by: spypeach at November 22, 2009 09:43 AM (qsM1Q)

If that isn't a death panel, nothing is.

94

I have no idea what the hell it is, but why do they need to establish a non profit org. to get involved at all?

then there's this too

IMPOSITION OF FEE.—There is hereby imposed
on each specified health insurance policy for each policy
year ending after September 30, 2012, a fee equal to the product of $2 ($1 in the case of policy years ending during fiscal year 2013) multiplied by the average number of lives covered under the policy.
‘‘(b) LIABILITY FOR FEE.—The fee imposed by subsection (a) shall be paid by the issuer of the policy

95 BTW, spypeach: good find.

I'm going to assume yours was a hypothetical because that language is pretty obvious. If it isn't an outright and immediate creation of a death panel, it can sure be interpreted later to be one. Of course the Reid-Pelosi Congress will say, "Hey, don't worry about it. It's not at all what you think it is." To which our response should be, "FYNQ. It's exactly what we think it is." We can gussy up that particular response, too, to match their obfuscatory terminology; but the response should be pretty evident.

96

spypeach

death panels, or we are guinea pigs to a research institute? or solient green?

97 Starting to bend?  As for the GOP, they've been bending over for a long time.  Thanks, you turkeys. My devout and sincere wishes are that all supporters, governmental or otherwise - of any part of this monstrosity will die long before their time -- in agony -- due to rationing of their health care.  You support it, you eat it.

98 @87

Death panels. 

99 This a dead thread, but I wanted to clarify what I said at #3, in case I have to come back here later.  COLA can be distributed geographically; so therefore the penalty sections of this bill will vary geographically -- that seems to be a clear Equal Protection issue.  Additionally, COLA can also be means tested -- another Equal Protection issue.

100 That they are actually going to take over health care, or that no one batted an eye with the Landrieu payoff.

Let's start calling it what it is - a BRIBE.

101 I'm touched by all the sentiment above--things like "We're losing our country"  "Democratic pols-- Obama, Reid, Pelosi and company--are ignoring the Constitution" and "If this passes it will make the nation's financial system implode even sooner than it's scheduled to."

All heart-felt, all absolutely accurate.  Unfortunately, I also see a few notes of "Hey, look, they're bending to our complaints.  So if we just work harder, we can get them to defeat this ghastly piece of crap."

My compliments on your optimism, positive attitude and faith.  Folks with this attitude are wonderful, core-of-America, salt of the earth.  But if you believe that "they're bending", you have no idea what you're dealing with.  Please let me explain.

Once the leftist Dem leaders tipped their hand to what they wanted Obamacare to do--and calculated that by bribing a few blue dogs with 300-million-dollar pork packages they'd have enough votes to pass it--the actual language of the bill ceased to matter.  Reason is the so-called "reconciliation process," under which a group of 3 or 4 members of the top leadership of each chamber form a "conference committee," supposedly to resolve differences in the versions of the bill passed by their respective bodies.

By rules set up by congress, the deliberations of the conference committee are completely secret.  That's bad enough right there.  But even worse, there is no requirement that members are limited to including only provisions that were actually included in the bill passed by either chamber.

In the past, conference-committee members have added provisions to the final bill that weren't in the version passed by either chamber! 

So if you you've just finished a huge campaign that has managed to defeat a particularly loathsome provision, don't think it's gone from the final version.

Second:  A few commenters seem to be relieved that the fine for not buying gubmint insurance has been reduced to a modest $750 (indexed for inflation-- what a cute touch!).   Some think this will make it easier for people opposed to the program to opt out.  Folks, your naivete is touching.  As others have noted, six months from now some chickenshit committee of congress will just add the cost of insurance to your federal withholding.  Unless you're self-employed, your options are exactly zero.

Adjusting the amount your employer withholds, to make everything come out closer at tax time, is a good idea but it won't let you recoup the amount already taken out for "universal health care."

The strategy being used by Rahm et al at this point is to reduce opposition to the bill by asking members what specific provisions they find objectionable--"What would it take for you to vote yes?"--and taking those out.  The member is then "cornered"--he or she has raised their objection, the leaders have--at great personal cost, dontcha know--gone to great lengths to take out *exactly the provision the member identified as objectionable.*  So now... ?

Those who love the Constitution and limited government will lose every time to experienced political operatives who want unlimited government power.  The only way proponents of limited government can defeat the Rahm Emmanuels, Reids and Pelosis of the world is to change the arena in which the decision is made.

102

Sort of O/T -- Seems Bammy's best bud, The Oprah," is dumping her beloved Chicago for LA.  But all along, The Oprah has carefully avoided spending too much time in Kully-Fon-Ya to avoid paying taxes there.  Just another lib hypocrite not doing their patriotic duty, huh, sheriff Joe?

http://tinyurl.com/yfrezxy

 

103 Howz my ass taste? huh?

104

Starving the entire country and sending it into eternal bankruptcy will keep down budget costs and save us money.

OK, can I suck your cock now?

105

Just don't ask me for a loan, you fucking American socialist deadbeats.

I'm saving up my deutschmarks up for a box of Roagaine.

106 Excuse me, but isn't it ILLEGAL for the government to 'confiscate' property without DUE PROCESS?

107 "PJ, if you hit enough singles, you win the game."

I hoe you're right, but I kind of think sf has got it right. The playas are way ahead of us.

108 Come on, do they take us for fools?  When they meet behind closed doors, dems only, to blend the two bills, the worse possible parts of both bills will survive and be placed upon the former citizens of the former USA.

109 The sad part is that somewhere on the HuffPo and Dem Underground sites, Liberals are furious that the PelosiPrisons got taken out.

110

excuse me if this has already been said but

I don't want this bill "bent" I want it "broken". Kill.The.Bill. It is the death of liberty and Euronicates America.

111

question? is that 750, per family or per family member?

That was for a single person. 

There is other language making people responsible for fines imposed on their dependents.  I don't think they've thought this one through much.  There are quite a few not very well off people out there who take care of handicapped or mentally handicapped relatives or friends who are legally able to claim them as dependents. 

Forcing those already strapped caretakers to pay hefty fines because their otherwise healthy charges don't have, or can't afford ObamaCare is obviously going to degrade the living standard of both caretaker and charge. 

I suspect a lot of people who were willing to do this caretaker thing in the past, even though it is a thankless grueling task which never has any happy endings (BTDT, I know), will see this as the final straw, throw up their hands in dispair, and be financially compelled to put their charges in a public institution where the costs to the taxpayer skyrocket, and the charge's happiness level will suffer since the vast majority of them want to be "home"

That is just one example of a pretty bad "unintended consequence" of this poorly crafted legislation.  Given its size, there are going to be hundreds of similar bad unintended consequences.

If this thing passes, it will be getting "emergency fix" legislative patches for the next 50 years.

112 COLA's have way too much sugar and calories, so we need you to stop having so many!

113 The Libs are hell bent on jabbing their filthy fucking paws into our wallets and stealing as much as they possibly can.  The 52% of dumbass Americans who voted for this better wake the fuck up.  We all are going to get raped starting in 2010.  No more vacations, no more new cars, no more nothing.  No, we just spend our money on a fucked up government that mismanages every friggin program they start.  We are doomed

114

Lots of outrage. Good.

How many of you are going to vote in 2010? 2012? 2014? c

I think that none of the posters here are 52%-ers (except the known trolls), but I suspect some of you might not vote, or vote for protest candidates (as per your posts). I think McCain lost due to McCainfs advisors and choices, but a less apparently-lopsided loss might have prevented some of the recent legislation.

Three things need to happen over the next 6 months:

1. The Opposition, Republicans, Conservatives, Independents, disaffected voters, and others, need to get their plans straight, stop in-fighting and stop bleeding support. Obama is still acting like a community organizer (stir up trouble, then let the players fight it out), and we see what the result is: the Left is able to pull together and achieve their goals, we are not. Once Obama is forced out of the community organizer mode, he will fail to lead. Badly. All need to see this

2. All Congressional bills need to be immediately read, analyzed and heavily publicized. The PelosiPrison section seems to have disappeared, and itfs because neither it nor she could face any scrutiny. The Democrats really canft stand reasoned public debate of their policies/plans, etc., because the American Public becomes enraged. Public exposure and articulate discussion will cost the Democratic Party the 2010 elections, and we can get all these stains cleaned.

3. Get electable candidates that people will not abandon. Vet them thoroughly. Get the party bosses onboard; no more NY23s. No one needs another Snowe or Collins. Make sure that these candidates, if elected, will repeal these idiotic laws, and keep the representation of their constituents and best interests of the country ahead of supporting bipartisan crap.

Libertarian candidates are generally unelectable at the state and national levels. That's just the way it is. Ditto for Evangelicals. In both cases, however large their power bases are, today and for the foreseeable future, they simply arenft national in scope. Huckabee brings a "regional" aspect to politics, one that the other 2008 candidates did not. Rightly or wrongly, Libertarian calls for smaller government, return to the gold standard, abolishing the IRS, etc., resonate for a few minutes with everyone, then people vote for the other candidate.

This process might need to be an ugly fight, but it needs to happen, and in the end, everyone needs to support the selectee. Remember, the goal is vetted, electable and reliable.

@

As many of you have posted, the current government is filled with, well, smart-but-not-really-that-smart people. Most of them fear elections a little, failing to be re-elected a bit more, but being re-elected only to see the rest of the Congress take up each and everyone of their great works, examine its mediocrity, then vote it away.

Could Reid, Pelosi and co-conspirators sit through 2 years of watching (and being allowed to speak) speaker-after-scripted-speaker come to the podium and in 55 seconds (of an allowed 1 minute), read a prepared evisceration of the obvious stupidity of PelosiCare, C&T, CardCheck,. . . .and then see Congress overturn each and every aspect of each and every bill?

Ifd like to find out, preferably on CSPAN

115

111

 

One very good reason to get off the grid.  I think I'll be living on top of a mountain if this ever gets passed...good thing that's easily done out here in the Hinterlands!

116 Patient-Centered Outcomes Research Institute = Death Panel 

117 Arbalest:  Good post, 90% of the house and senate, repubs and dems, need the boot.  They refuse to listen to the very people who put them in office.  Their smug arrogance is sickening.  They all say the same thing....GIVE US YOUR MONEY AND SHUT THE FUCK UP!  Many need to stand in the unemployment line.

118

Seems to me you could fix congress by simply doing away with seniority rules.

Vote them all out or don't waste your time. They all need to go except my guy, is why it never changes.

119 Thanks again FiftyTwo Percenters. You perennially retarded fucking fucks.

120 PUBLIC PRESSURE APPARENTLY CAN GET ASPECTS OF THIS SHIT SANDWICH CHANGED. We should be encouraged by that even though the vote tonight didn't go our way. THEY ARE STARTING TO BEND.

That's what I (and our would-be masters, for that matter) love about you trimmers. So accommodating...

...so obedient.

121 Fuck these people for wiping out the savings of my retired parents, and for saddling my kids with debt they'll never be able to pay off.

Anybody who still buys into that ridiculous meme of Democrats being the party of "caring" and "concern" and "compassion" needs to talk to all the people I know who've lost their jobs in the last four months thanks to the financial collapse that came courtesy of Jimmy Carter's Community Reinvestment Act, Bill Clinton's beefing up of same, ACORN bullying the banks to make bad loans, the corruption at Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac and all the people who benefited from same, chief among them Barney Frank, Chris Dodd, and BARACK FUCKING OBAMA.

122 Please read this, everybody (don't worry, it's a very short version):  the sad story of the transformation of Argentina from one of the richest countries in the world (as of 1902), to poverty-stricken and living from one crisis to the next, in less than 100 years. And it all started with a political party whose slogan was "fundamental change"---including mandatory health insurance.

http://tinyurl.com/yl59vsd

123 If I had to pick one thing that pissed me off most about this bill, it's that it doesn't apply to government employees, politicians, and unions.  If I was the GOP I'd have the airwaves loaded with commercials pointing out to "ordinary" people they are going to be getting second class health care while their "betters" get the golden carpet.

124 I doubt the GOP powers that be want that spread around too much -- they stand to benefit too.

125 mistress overdone @ 50 makes a very good point that doesn't get brought up nearly enough. A country that is flat broke is a country that cannot support a military. All those clueless peaceniks who think they'd like to abolish the military will get a real education if we have to start dancing to the tune of China---or worse yet, the Muslims.

126 Vic @ 77:
I keep waiting for someone to take these shit sandwiches to court. Someone with money has got to be getting pissed about some of the ridiculous shit they are doing.
I would have thought those AIG folks who had their bonuses confiscated through blatantly ex post facto laws using the tax code would have acted by now.

Yes, the silence is deafening. What did the Chicago Mob (Rahmbo Family) do to all these people anyway? Threaten to kill their wives and kids?

127 What did the Chicago Mob (Rahmbo Family) do to all these people anyway? Threaten to kill their wives and kids?

Nothing so dramatic.  Probably just promised them "in depth" IRS audits if they made any noise.  Using the heavy hand of the IRS is a time honored ploy to silence dissent.

128 On extra-large shit sandwich, now with 4% less shit.

Not feeling particularly encouraged, if anything, compromises make it less likely to pass.

And I don't want a shit sandwich at all.

129 burberry scarf | CD Keys

130 xxx

131 porno izle sikis izle anal sibelkekilli utangac sex izle bosalma seks izle antalyadanenerede antalya ilaçlama endoras bayanlar televizyon evcildostum area18 foto