1
Yesssss !! Finally, the football thread.


Wait, what?

2 It's called the Obama Maneuver. Or, if this works out well, it will be.

3 "It will be a delicate ballet..." Perfect for Rahm Emanuel.

4 Make the call sir!

Present!

5 You can't beat "American! Whiskey! Sexy!"

6 "We need to take advantage of this and get our own push back against the enemy going."

Yeah, but unfortunately the enemy is in Washington, DC.

7

Obama is taking his time making some amateur decision.  You see Obama is a military genius.  His strategy will be second to none.   Obama has spent half his life developing military strategies.  McChrystal can just shut the fuck up until Opie gets this all figured out.  Opie, Axelrod and Emanuel have been agonizing over this decision for months and months.  You do recall that Afghanistan is the REAL WAR, the war we have to win and Bush fucked it all up by not fighting that real war.  So  to review Opie is spending every Sunday on the golf course (not church) figuring out this extremely difficult decision.   He will have an answer for you any year now.  But right now he's got to run, because there is a basketball game or cocktail party or something.  But really really soon,   he'll have an answer on this important topic, maybe after he gets back from Venezuela or some fund raiser or something.

What was the subject again???

8 It only took the drooling idiots by surprise.  The only thing in question was how long it would take.

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out you can only push people so far before they start pushing back if the means to do so are available -- and they are in that corner of the world.

9 The big thing here is air support.  If we can get that rolling for them, they may have a chance.  If not, I don't think they will last long.

10 It is interesting to see the Taliban making the same mistakes in Afghanistan that were made by Al Quaeda in central Iraq. Their willingness to accept collateral damage, and their willingness to force themselves on the local populace instead of using gentler persuasion, is sowing dragon's teeth. It proved to be very damaging in Iraq, where the local populace turned on the insurgents and led the Coalition forces to their lairs. Here in Afghanistan, where every tribe is a militia, every village a fortress, and every headman a captain, reaction takes a more direct form. Again, note that the Afghans are not doing it out of special love or loyalty to the Coalition forces, but are acting in their own interests of self-protection, as any self-respecting people would do.

There may also be elements of clan or tribal feud, since killing or injuring one Pashtun means extending the injury to his entire extended family. An eye for an eye, maybe two eyes, and the Taliban find their welcome gone, and their Maoist peasant sea drying up around them. Stupid for them, good for us.

11 If this works it will be a great outcome, but sadly the MSM will say, "It took a while, but Obama's super-smartness fixed Bush's Afghanistan disaster."

12

This sort of thing is a back-breaker. If enough tribes commit, then one side or the other is going down! Sadly it could easily be the tribes if they don't get a LOT of support. Rememer the Bay of Pigs? Those guys almost won, (well, they lasted over a week at least) even though JFK stranded them high and dry.

If Obammy deserts the tribesmen, that will be it. There will be no hope at all in Afghanistan until the next generation comes to power (like 20-30 years from now). Much like what happened to the Russians, eh?

13 I can't help but think if were not for all of the propaganda our media has been spewing we would have seen people stand up and fight the bloodthirsty savages sooner.  Good men could see our indecision and doubted we would stand behind them.  The pain had to escalate to an unnecessary level before the calculus became one where it seemed best to risk their lives.

Exdem has a good point about the Jihadis turning the local populations against them.. but if their creed was not execrable we wouldn't be fighting them in the first place.  It's like saying it Hitler's philosophy wasn't insane they would have won the second World War when if such were the case there never would have been a World War.  Such are the natures of evil and insanity.

14

I'm forming my own TRIBE.  Then I'm going to Washington to "get this party started".

15

On a serious note.   This shit has been tried before.  I'm not against arming citizens that want their country back, but keep in mind these "tribes" don't like us either.

Arm them and then let's get the soldiers we need, let's follow McChrystals plan and lets kill the mother fucking Taliban.   Let's kill all of them and then some. 

Obama won't.  He's half black and the other half is Muzz.  He isn't smart, doesn't have balls and doesn't like our military.   

16 Come people, lighten up on bambi.

This is the first real tough decision he has had to make on foreign policy.

All his other decisions were clear cut

     Support our oldest ally or urinate on the queen
           -- easy choice, insult the Brits
     Go to Berlin & celebrate the fall of communism or be busy elsewhere
           -- easy choice, run & hide
     Bow to the king of s-arabia or be a man
           -- easy choice, submit to ruler of mecca
     Support rule of law or an attempt at a coup in Honduras
           -- easy choice, support dictatorship
     Support American victims or give a terrorist an open forum in court
          -- easy choice, I can always pardon KSM if my hand picked judge gets it wrong
     Provide freedom or my buddy Chavez
          -- easy choice, never met a dictator I didn't like
     Support people questioning the Iranian election or the mullahs
          -- easy choice, besides we can't have the rabble investigate voter fraud

This Afghan thing is hard -- both sides are muslims

17 "Obama won't. He's half black..." Ultra lame, Dude.

18 I'm not against arming citizens that want their country back, but keep in mind these "tribes" don't like us either.

If we give up on the nation building exercise and allow them to go back to the way they've lived in the past, they'll accept our assistance.  If we overstay that welcome and start pushing women's rights, voting, etc then they'll resist, violently if necessary.

We need to adjust what "win" looks like in Afghanistan and accept that its not going to include much of the social stuff that happened in Iraq.

As a practical matter, that adjusted notion of "win" will work as well for US national security in the next 50 years as the broader notion the west still clings to.  I think it would be nice if Afghanistan were to join the 19th or early 20th century, but that's a process that will take many generations.

19 Uncle Jimbo - my responses to your prior thread - I think they were #57-58.  Split the Taliban from the regular Pashtun leadership/tribal chiefs.  The Taliban will find it hard to fight without the Pashtun tribes/clans being at least neutral.

20 Hey, maybe this'll work in the USA!

21

Purple Avenger, good point, and let me add that the tribes apparently see the Taliban as "oursiders."  We are also outsiders who must help them re-establish their authority and get the heck out but keep watch. 

The tribes don't like us but they have kept to themselves for as long as they ruled the area. 

22 In their time, I think the Romans and the British were very successful at splitting clan from clan, and tribe from tribe.  None of this is brand new.  Some carrots, some sticks, and let the Taliban be Taliban.

23 Isn't this in line with the position paper that Uncle Jimbo linked here a week or two ago, the one written by the Army Special Forces Major who embedded with an Afghan tribe for a year or two?

24

Doesn't anyone remember the Northern Alliance? Hadn't they been trying to overthrow the taliban for years? Didn't Army SF teams join up with them to overthrow the taliban after 911? Sounds like an 8 year old idea trying to make a comeback with the NYT treating it as something new that's only happening because of obama.

I wonder if this is PC. Better check with General Casey, DefSec Gates, General Axelrod and the NoBS, this is a good war we HAVE to win but without mentioning victory, CIC obama.

 

25 Sorry, they're not getting air support.  There might be civilians within a 500 mile radius.

26 yes

27 Purple avenger is right. if we give up on dragging them into the 20th 19th much less 21st centuries, i think they will consider us the least onnoxious outsider
 you see they resent the taliban as much for trying to change them as they would be relived if we didnt. hell they might even learn to LIKE us in that case. But if we dont support these guys i do see this as a possible Bay Of Pigs.

28 This is the same setup that the South Vietnamese had going for them when we left the country.  Then the Dem Congress defunded the effort and we know how that worked out.  A-stan is the next, by the same people.

29 burberry scarf | CD Keys