1 But won't B+rry pay the UC taxes???? huh?

2 Just wait till Barry and the Dems are done.  They'll make it impossible to fire an employee once they're hired and you can't cut off the benefits tap either.  That will fix everything.

3 But now that Presentdent Princess Pants is taxing unemployment benefits, we can use those funds to bail out business who are folding to save taxes.

Everyone wins.  See...math isn't so hard.

4 I'm not sure where they're coming up with those numbers. I owned CJ'S Tavern in Wheaton Illinois from 1992-2005 and I paid 6.4% of all salaries to unemployment. It never went up or down.

I sold my business down here in Monroe North Carolina 2 months ago because they raised the sales tax 1%, then raised the liquor tax 20%, and then any bar that served food they passed the no smoking law.

5

Fortunately I never had to apply for unemployment benefits in my life (not bragging - just lucky) but doesn't the current system also encourage the dismissing employer to 'lie their ass off' about the circumstances of your termination unless it is an obvious layoff to cut costs?

I always thought our current system was flawed. It just now seems to be more flawed than I thought.

6 It's been a while since I had a business in IL, but the Workman's Comp charges/fees/taxes were beyond weird, too, and I assume they haven't gotten any better.

7 doesn't the current system also encourage the dismissing employer to 'lie their ass off' about the circumstances of your termination

The system normally sides with the fired employee unless the employer has iron well documented clad proof, and even then the employer might not win the day.

When I was with IBM it would take almost a years worth of documented incompetence, sloven work, and numerous official attempts at remedial action before a manager felt comfortable enough going forward with a firing.  Short of getting busted with 10 kilos of blow in your desk, or setting your manager's office on fire, it was pretty hard to get rid of anyone.

8 Taxman lyrics
Let me tell you how it will be
There's one for you, nineteen for me
'Cause I'm the taxman, yeah, I'm the taxman

Should five per cent appear too small
Be thankful I don't take it all
'Cause I'm the taxman, yeah I'm the taxman

If you drive a car, I'll tax the street,
If you try to sit, I'll tax your seat.
If you get too cold I'll tax the heat,
If you take a walk, I'll tax your feet.

Don't ask me what I want it for
If you don't want to pay some more
'Cause I'm the taxman, yeah, I'm the taxman

Now my advice for those who die
Declare the pennies on your eyes
'Cause I'm the taxman, yeah, I'm the taxman
And you're working for no one but me.

9 Posted by: Boots at February 04, 2010 01:05 AM (06JTY)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_0M__0Z1pjg

10

It isn't just the USofA on this point.  We fired an employee for over-claiming on expenses.  The fraud was documented by our Security and Finance teams.  The employee did not dispute this, but demanded severance because the company did not notify our voluntary employee association first.  He got 3 months salary.

11

Posted by: Purple Avenger at February 04, 2010 01:02 AM (debrG)

OK, thanks PA.

12 Rest assured, they're working on raising that number to $1.49.

13 IBM, huh? Aw, geezez. LOL  Tell me it ain't so?

14 Wow, timing.  So Illinois basically has a shit ton of workers that are not being let go because it is more expensive to let them go then it is to keep them on the books doing nothing?

Maybe I've been too hard on government workers.

15 I owned a small business.  I had an employee.  Biggest mistake I ever made was hiring someone.  But, having said that, the real pain in the ass is the first employee, having additional ones is less of an incremental pain in the ass.  Government makes it SO painful to hire people that they force small operators to delay hiring until they absolutely can't avoid it any longer.

I would just as soon everyone go to kp.org and get your own personal health insurance and then work 1099 and be done with the whole "employee" thing.

16

PA....

 

Thank you for this enlightening story.  I work in the payments industry...just recently, I'm still learnin'....but the situation you describe here is a damn shame to everyone trying to do business the right (read:  correct, not conservative...you morons!) way.

 

To sum up:  It's hard out there for a pimp!  And these days, anyone who employs someone else to do something else is apparently considered to be a fkn pimp.  Makin' money off the (so-called) "workin' man."

 

If our "esteemed" government would get off the backs of our small business employers maybe there would be more folks working and less folks bitchin'!!!

17 I'll tell you how onerous it is to be a small business owner.  You actually have to file five Federal withholding returns a year, five state withholding returns a year, five local withholding returns a year, provide W-2's for all those returns, file five personal returns a year, file a personal property tax return, file a business personal property tax return, file a state and federal UEC return (unemployment) and all the other Federal, state and local bullshit that goes along with owning a piece of equipment, a piece of real property or any vehicle.

When Barack was elected November of 2008, I laid everyone off and closed the doors, sold the equipment and eventually sold the building.  I just figured going Galt was going to have to happen eventually and I would get ahead of the curve.  I am still dealing with the state and local bureacracy about that closing.

Once on the books...they don't want to let you go.

18 And this is why so many companies hire through temp agencies - you can try the employee out before taking on any real risk...benefits, vacation/sick time, etc.  Nationwide Insurance HQ here in Ohio has a temp agency actually inside the building, and they do the majority of their hiring through them, and the transition from temp to perm is rarely before the first 90 days.

19
Simple solution. Take the existing clumsy, bureaucratic, centralized system and drop it directly in the trash. Then, make unemployment funds something which the employed accumulate directly for themselves.

Here's the modest proposal. Someone just starting out on the job, with no unemployment savings, gets a break on all other taxes, and the money that would have gone to those instead goes into a personal sequestered unemployment buffer account, not directly accessible by its owner under normal circumstances. Once that account had built up to a reasonable and sufficient level, the other taxes resume.

Funds in the personal unemployment buffer account sit there and accrue interest. The employed person can continue to add to them if they choose, on favorable tax terms, to build up a serious rainy day fund.

Allow people to tap those funds for reasons other than unemployment, but not for trivial reasons. Say, let someone who reaches retirement without having drawn down their unemployment account roll the lot of it over into their pension. Or, let those younger than retirement get at the kitty after a reasonable time to fund a child's university fees.

If they ever become unemployed, they've got a big incentive not to sit there on the couch and cash checks, because it's coming out of their own pocket.

20 Yeah, short lived work situations hurt in both directions.

An example from my past. One company lured me to move from Iowa to Florida, offered me a specific hourly rate and talked about having years worth of work. When I got there, they dropped the pay by 25%, did not have enough work to keep me busy for more than two hours a day, and basically, the second I had enough savings to pay for a move, I got another job and moved there. It is not just the employers that get screwed, employees have to look out for their best interest as well. While I could have sued the company for breach of a signed contract, I never really felt that it would work out for my best interest in that case, as after a few weeks of working there, already had decided I did not like the culture. I ended up losing quite a bit of money on that job overall, as I had to pay out 7 months on a rental agreement I could no longer complete and the moving expenses not to mention the crappy questions I get when an employer sees I had a job for all of 4 months.

Another example was an employer that hired someone from out of state, kept him on for the three months evaluation,  then gave him a six month extension, so he got a six month contract for his appartment and got fired for no reason I was ever able to learn of two weeks later.

21 Lately I have been all 1099 income. For a while, I was jobbing all over the US and paying State taxes in CA., NY, IL, HI, VA, and GA. And since CA. is my home, CA. wanted taxes on all the money I made in all the other states. It was murder. If you are on 1099, my advice, document the heck out of every single thing you do, every day. I keep a diary with every single activity I do on it, every check I get, every bill I pay. Take aggressive deductions and be prepared to defend them. The IRS has hired something like 20k new employees. They all need something to look at.

22 It's not just IL.  In WA, I've a small business that has employed about 1/2 an employee for over 10 years in various unemployment and L&I 'taxes'.  I've never had a significant claim of any sort, but I end up paying for this mythical employee who has never done a lick of work, never shown up  for work, never even been in the office -- no one knows who this employee is.   But they get paid every month about 1/2 of what my hardworking staff gets paid.   If I hired another full time employee, this mythical employee would probably get a raise to 2/3 of the staff salary.   Go figure why anyone would ever hire someone...  

23 This is part of the reason why in the end, there will be only chaos.

24 Where's that doof who always insists that unemployment isn't a tax, and isn't a burden on business, and we're all stupid for thinking otherwise?

25 I work for a small business and have IPA'd in the past -- so I have seen the personnel system from the unimaginable mess (the feds) and the burden of paperwork on a small business. 

The comments above on 1099 are spot on - until the IRS determines they are not contractors - then you are screwed.  It is somewhat surreal to have to have carry a six figure check into a dingy IRS office staffed by social misfits.  The bumb to an employee is big, as is the bump over 15 employees -- the marginal cost of going from 14 to 15 is significant.

On the federal side, the dance over how much personnel deadwood a program has to carry are extremely entertaining to watch.  Imaging three or four exceeding polite elephants (managers) trying to tiptoe through a PC minefield in which employees that are verbally praised are suspect.

26 ohh, and if your small business is in an area where you can have employees from more then one state - you get to do double paperwork.  (e.g: hiring a Marylander in Virginia)

End it all -- back my usual saw - Stop Withholding and the whole house of cards collapses.

27 Alright MORONS!

WAKE UP!

What do you think this is?

28

Wow, I knew the unemployment insurance thing was a huge mess but I didn't know it was that bad.  How about those comments that supported the current system?  Society leeches every damn one of them and most likely part of the 52% that put Obama in office.

So, guess who put this BS system in place in the first place??? If you guessed ObamaÂ’s commie hero FDR you would be correct.  For States like Illinois where they are crooked as a dogÂ’s hind leg and taxing at a rate of 1.48 per 1.00 collected, I suspect that what they are really doing is building a slush fund for more graft and corruption. That is the true evil in corrupt government and the reason why the 3^rd world countries in South America do so poorly economically. Graft and corruption are a huge cost to doing business and act as an added hidden tax above the advertised tax rate. It is easy to see from this article why some of the wiser governors fought against accepting “stimulus” dollars that involved extending unemployment.  It is a killer for small business.

As for documenting reasons for firing someone in order to show cause and avoid hassles with unemployment that just doesnÂ’t apply to small business.  I once sat on a grievance committee hearing board with senior management for a large company I used to work for. The senior management guy who was leading the hearing started it out with a comment “this individual is not part of the “protected specie”. He was of course referring to minorities and women. Firing one of those required a huge amount of documentation over a long period of time. The net result was none of them were ever fired regardless of the cause. They got transferred around from job to job until their current supervisor had enough. The reason for that was not insurance/tax. It was EEOC and the laws that made it extremely easy for litigation. So not only would you be hit for unemployment taxes, but you would wind up spending thousands on lawyers to fight a civil suit financed by your very own taxes.

Yes, our system is totally screwed up and as long as the leeches of the society keep electing commie-crats it will keep getting worse. When the government finally achieves the ultimate goal of the Obamanites and we are totally communist all of these civil suits and things that hamper “management” will go away because government will be the management and you will be forbidden from suing government. The only problem will be that there is no incentive to work. 

As Kratos says, in the end there will only be chaos and a nation mired in squalor and poverty.

 

29 My husband and I own a small business. Employment issues and dealing with the rules and regulations is a huge drain of time and money. We are down an employee and are hesitant to hire right now. Our office manager has offered to work more hours rather than put up with the hassle and all the red tape of hiring and training a new employee. Plus our business is down even more that last year. We personally haven't taken a pay check since early December. This is the most difficult business climate since the 1970's. The outlook is bleak and beoming bleaker (is that a word?). I can't see unemployment dropping anytime soon.

30 My company has a very low turnover. Our six employees are older and half of them are vets. Our UC payout was at the absolute lowest rate.

Employee number seven is gone.  He was using company time to maintain his home business, selling T-shirts over the Internet.  So we fired him. (when times got tough for a while last year all of the other employees voted to take a pay cut to save each others jobs, except him,  The T-shirts were the last straw)

Wow.  The state of CT tried to make us the bad guy.  We were asked if we "had any established written policy prohibiting this."  It was all we could do to keep from saying "No ma'am, and we don't have a policy against pissing off the roof on customer's heads either"  --but that was just a thought.

Well we won, but the employee gets two chances for appeal.  His wife works for a legal firm so he came back lawyered to the hilt.  They were going to systematically bring in all of our other employees for cross examination.  Finally, weighed against the lost business it was not worth it, so now he sits at home getting unemployment and selling T-shirts.

31 I learned the hard way about unemployment benefits. Maybe like others, I had always been under the impression that unemployment was insurance. After I fired a person for embezzlement, a fact determined true by the referee, they awarded the fired employee benefits.  After my account was drained, they surcharged me the deficit paid to the employee.  If this was a fire insurance policy and your house burned down, you would have to repay the insurance company what they paid you less any premiums already paid.

Like so many other laws, those governing unemployment laws are a complete fraud.  What the legislatures really wanted to do was to pass a law directing all employers to pay terminated employees severance pay regardless of the reason for their termination.  They set up a system in which employees almost always prevail. If the employees almost always prevail, why should an employer set up a system documenting employee misconduct and prosecuting unemployment cases? That is, if the employer is going to lose 95% of the cases, why spend a disproportionate amount of money trying to win the 5%?

There are really two frauds: a system of referees and appeals with rules and precedents that preordain a winners, and corporate policies and methods destined to lose.

If the legislatures passed a law directing all employers to pay terminated employees, there would be no need to spend money for a fraudulent government system of referees etc. and no need to spend corporate money for HR, lawyers etc. But the fact is, in most states legislatures probably lack constitutional (federal and state) authority to directly impose such obligations on employers.

32 Hang in there, rino2con. Your office manager sounds like a sensible person.

What my husband and I enjoy about owning our own business in CT (no employees) is paying both sides of unemployment taxes out of our income and never, ever, ever being able to collect. Hurts so good!

Yesterday Governor Rell gave a speech to the legislature practically begging them to stop shafting small business and make the state more friendly to commerce. I'm sure nobody heard her.

33

I support a certain level of mandatory unemployment savings, but I think it should be like an HSA, similar to what torquewrench said, above (torquewrench at February 04, 2010 02:35 AM).  Instead of paying into a universal fund that is siphoned by the government, it could go into an account with minimal bureaucratic administration cost.  Though I wouldn't let them tap it for anything unless they were unemployed.  Once the fund reached a certain size (like 12 month's pay) it would no longer be required.  Once a person retired they could take out the unused portion in a lump.  We need to get the costs to be visible on each employee's check - people like to think of this as if it were free, rather than part of their compensation.

The reason I think it should be mandatory - which is offensive to most conservatives -  is because we know a certain percentage of the people would not participate and would have nothing saved when their job ended.  That is fine if you're willing to let them suffer from their own mistakes, but Americas seem unwilling to do that.  Once we see the starving wife and kids on the news, then we get all misty-eyed and decide we have to "do something."  If we can break that habit - the need to bail out the stupid and prevent their death by starvation - then we can eliminate the mandatory portion.  Until then, some form of mandatory unemployment coverage, adequate to cover several months of job searching, is necessary to maintain social stability.  Privatizing the accounts will give people an incentive to get back to work quickly, rather than enjoy a long period of "funemployment," which some people really do engage in.

34

But the fact is, in most states legislatures probably lack constitutional (federal and state) authority to directly impose such obligations on employers.

Well, they lack the Consitutional authority to set up the current system as well, but go figure. (at least the fed s lack it)

 

35 See, now this is why I hire illegals.  No unemployment tax, no unemployment benefits, no withholding to worry about - it makes life simple. 

36 CT has really weird unemployment laws.  I worked for a company as a truck driver for a very short period of time, less than 60 days.  The real job they hired for was actually as a day laborer and I only drove a truck for about 5-10% of the time so I quit.  I didn't put in for unemployment because I quit.  Never collected a dime.  After a few months I got a job actually driving a truck and worked there for over a year and the place went bankrupt.  I put in for unemployment and started getting checks.  After a few weeks I got an irate call from my old boss from the first place wanting to know why I put in for unemployment from them as I had quit.  Come to find out State law says they can go back to a previous company for claims if they can't collect from the current company.

37 wow drudge's headline this morning sure comes up at ya..

38 46 - Yeah, my son worked for us for a summer, then went out to Colorado, worked for a construction firm and took some classes, then came back to CT and worked for a different construction firm.  He got laid off and collected unemployment. 

Even though he quit, and we were removed from the situation by college and two employments, CT raised our rates "because they had to look at the records."  Even an inquiry triggers this stuff.

We have some work that has come in and I would like to hire him back for a while, but the only way we can get short term help safely seems to be from a temp agency.

39 Jim Treacher hit by a Secret Service vehicle. Shattered his knee.

40 "James OÂ’Keefe vs. Max Blumenthal: How the Left Distorts, Invents and Lies"

41 MSNBC just reported that jobless claims rose "unexpectedly" again

42
Joe Biden's secret service detail?

43 My sister works for herself. She gets contracts with companies to do work for them.

The fine state of MA has laws that forbid these companies from having contractors "too long" or from working with the same contractor again "too soon."

This reduces opportunities for her and for every other contractor she knows. Once she finishes her contract at S----- company, she can't work with them again for another year and a half.

It is almost as if the MA government is trying to destroy the private sector.

44 What happened with "ray in the hood" yesterday?  Aren't those Toyota made in the USA by Americans?   I mean people are saying that it is uncomfortable that the government owns car companies when stuff like this comes up.

45
This is what I mean when we need to push forward a STOP MEDDLING/YOU'RE MAKING THINGS WORSE campaign.

And propose a 0.001% tax on members of Congress for every dollar they spend.

46 If we can break that habit - the need to bail out the stupid and prevent their death by starvation

While I agree with you 100%, as long as the stupid/lazy get to vote for folks who promise 'em free stuff redistributed from those lucky/unfair "rich people" (read: people who work), we're boned.

47

51 MSNBC just reported that jobless claims rose "unexpectedly" again

Just like I "unexpectedly" experence increased blood flow to the genitials after 10 seconds of watching Skinemax pron?

It really speaks ill of the media when an idiot such as myself understands a bit more about economics and incentives than they do.  Or is this misunderstanding of the economy intentional?

48 Ahh a nice cup of coffee and more bad news.I love waking up in Il Douche's America.

49
Stimulus Act II: This Time We Mean It

50 Milton Friedman said that if you want more of something, don't tax it. Economics sometimes is really simple. People are leaving the state of Illinois in droves. There is a massive tax increase coming if a Democratic governor wins.

51
bbl

Mantooth out

52 There is a massive tax increase coming if a Democratic governor wins.

Didn't y'all just have a massive tax increase when Quinn took over?

53
One more ting:

Camelot is over.

Now we have to deal with Shamelot.

54

58 Ahh a nice cup of coffee and more bad news.I love waking up in Il Douche's America.

Wait until there's another terrorist attack or when (probably not if) things in the Mideast heat up. 

At least I know that in the end, there will be only chaos.

55

"We have some work that has come in and I would like to hire him back for a while, but the only way we can get short term help safely seems to be from a temp agency."

I know a better way.  Si, it works very well. Cash only, please.

56

60 Milton Friedman said that if you want more of something, don't tax it. Economics sometimes is really simple.

The Kenyan Keynsian was never exposed to neo-classical economic theory.

57 People are leaving the state of Illinois in droves. There is a massive tax increase coming if a Democratic governor wins.

Posted by: jeff at February 04, 2010 08:50 AM (i0/N7)

Or if we get stuck with that asswipe Kent Dullard.

58 This may explain everything:

-->

U. S. Department of Justice

Civil Rights Division, Voting Section Trial Attorney, GS-14/15

The U.S. Department of Justice, Civil Rights Division is seeking up to 10 experienced attorneys for the position of Trial Attorney in the Voting Section in Washington, D.C.

snip~

The Civil Rights Division encourages qualified applicants with targeted disabilities to apply. Targeted disabilities are deafness, blindness, missing extremities, partial or complete paralysis, convulsive disorder, mental retardation, mental illness, severe distortion of limbs and/or spine.

59 Something else regarding employment that is being touted by our genius leaders and is certain not to work is giving tax incentives to companies who hire people.  I was in Italy when they tried that over there and companies would hire people, collect the incentive and then fire the people.  So the state adjusted their incentives to say that once an employee was on the job for six months they could collect the incentive.  As you might imagine, people were hired and fired after six months.  The repercussions of this policy were complex, universally negative and persisted for years.

60 Did Obama just pronounce "Corpsman" as "Corpseman?" 3 times!!

61

WASHINGTON – The number of newly laid-off workers filing initial claims for jobless benefits rose unexpectedly last week, evidence that layoffs are continuing and jobs remain scarce.

The rise is the fourth in the past five weeks. Most economists hoped that claims would resume a downward trend that was evident in the fall and early winter.

The Labor Department said Thursday that new claims for unemployment insurance rose by 8,000 to a seasonally adjusted 480,000. Wall Street economists had expected a drop to 460,000, according to Thomson Reuters.

So the "experts" expectations are based on what they hope will happen?

62

And I still contend that "Unexpected" is the new "Bad".

http://tinyurl.com/yar3mse

Remember when bad meant good?

63 Beck tackling the "debt ceiling" stuff.  Posted that article yesterday.  They haven't even passed it yet and they are scheduled to exceed it by the end of the month.  So guess they have to skip to the next level in order to keep the government going.

64 They are asking for a 100 million?  (per beck) so didn't we give a hundred million to haiti?

65 Barry's on TV?  He was just on 18 hours ago...

66 Barry's on TV?  He was just on 18 hours ago...

Posted by: HeatherRadish at February 04, 2010 09:21 AM (mR7mk)

That must have been a long 18 hours for him.

67 Zero hedge is getting funnier and funnier.   There is a guy on there calling him "HBO"

68 Most economists hoped that claims would resume a downward trend.....Yes,getting worse at a slower pace is the best we can hope for with the genius in charge.

69 79 Most economists hoped that claims would resume a downward trend.....Yes,getting worse at a slower pace is the best we can hope for with the genius in charge.   When an economist "hopes" the economy will get better, it's time for them to look for another line of work.  When a media outlet actually prints that word in conjunction with an article about the economy, it is time for them to fold.

70

"We have some work that has come in and I would like to hire him back for a while, but the only way we can get short term help safely seems to be from a temp agency."

 

Mrs. Outlaw is a district manager for a temp agency.  Last year was pretty good for her and so far business is up in '10.  I think a lot of business owners, both large and small, are thinking along these lines.

71 I'm very fortunate that I've only had to collect unemployment once and that was for only a few weeks.  I wouldn't even have done that since the place that let me go (lack of work issue) went above and beyond and paid me through the end of the month anyway.  I told them that I wouldn't put in the claim unless I didn't find another job within a few weeks.  I was told by the owner of the company that he wanted me to file right away otherwise the claim would be flagged for investigation and the paperwork would be an enormous headache. 

I've also tried to help some of our clients try to figure out if unemployment is paying the right amount and the formula that's used is nearly impossible to apply.  Heaven forbid you've had more than one job in the last two years or you got a raise.  It's utterly insane.

72 I own a business in Pa and have not laid off any employees in 3 years.  My UC rate was reduced by half as of Jan. 1.  Then I got the notice that the State UC rate was rising. Times 2.   See how that works?

73 I've been a freelance copywriter/editor/ghostwriter since 1999, working solely on 1099s and hiring subcontractors on 1099s when I have spillover projects. No muss, no fuss.

Anytime I start to think "Hmm, maybe I should build a bigger, more formal advertising/marketing agency," I read an article like this and it sets me straight. There is no way I want to deal with employees.

On a side note, comment #10 at the NYT article slammed the concept of contract work, saying it makes us a third-world country. (No benefits, no healthcare, no sick leave, yadda yadda. Surprisingly, he was from Seattle! Hard to believe, eh.)

To me, contract work is the ultimate acid test on whether you're doing the job to a client's satisfaction. I am my own safety net.

74 84 Exactly.The whole idea of "safety nets"is what got us into this mess.People need to learn or relearn self reliance.

75 Yeah, I was self-employed for 8 years in Jersey.  Kept really good records and kept my taxes manageable.

The thing that bugged the shit out of me was the self-employment/unemployment tax of $1500 I had to pay, even tho I was not eligible for unemployment.

76

Government makes it SO painful to hire people that they force small operators to delay hiring until they absolutely can't avoid it any longer.

Reminds me of when my parents tried to have a business in Hawaii. In addition to a worker's comp system that kept a huge number of people paid for doing nothing, they were supposed to pay for health insurance for anyone working 20 or more hours a week! Which of course means that nobody wants to work 10-15 hours a week, because then they wouldn't get insurance.

It was a system with a purpose. I think it's called "socialism"...

77 88 Yeah,America itself is the golden goose they are killing.

78

They are trying to end the contract work in some industries as well. In my old industry years ago there was a problem with a certain type of independent contractor that was used throughout the industry.

They were paid in salary and per diem. A lot of them shifted their salary into per diem and then called everything an "expense" such that the per diem became non-taxable.

Eventually the IRS caught on an said it went beyond tax avoidance into tax evasion.  They held the deep pockets COMPANY liable.  My old company (and I assume most of the rest of the industry) now require all independent contractors to be bonded for tax purposes.  Another expense for the contractor.

(they also pretty much limit themselves to big name contractors and avoid the "independendents).

  

79 You actually have to file five Federal withholding returns a year, five state withholding returns a year, five local withholding returns a year, provide W-2's for all those returns, file five personal returns a year, file a personal property tax return, file a business personal property tax return, file a state and federal UEC return (unemployment) and all the other Federal, state and local bullshit...

Actually you don't have to do all that stuff, cash works just fine.

80

I hate to say this, but as a Canadian business owner who competes with American companies;

1. Obama is leveling the playing field, systematically stripping all advantages that Americans use to have over its world competitors...good for us, bad for you.

2. I am glad you guys are getting the same shackles of the big government BS that we have been dealing with for years.

Que Nelson from Simpsons...

"Ha Ha"

 

81 92 To celebrate,dip your balls in melt runoff.I'm sure it will be exhilirating,and eventually your balls will drop back into their proper place.

82

 "Yeah,America itself is the golden goose they are killing."

 

Keep on Frakkin' that Chicken!

83

Frakking the fowl.

Yeh, that's like more subtle and stuff than the original line.

84 Pete@ 92 -- when the new glaciers push you guys south please come up with a means to identify the leftys so we can deny them entry. Maybe a good, dirty hockey joke - or a muskrat cap.

85

This is from one of the commenters:

"It is a way to protect the employee from unscrupulous employers who would always say that the employees are not performing subpar just to get rid of them."

This happened to me, I was fired in order for my incompetent boss' more incompetent friend to take my place. My boss and the department head colluded with HR to come up with a laundry list of "charges" against me. At the end of incompetent boob's recitation of my sins and omissions, she gave me a document to sign. My signature would have indicated that I agreed with their decision to terminate me, and the "cause". Essentially they wanted me to implicate myself. Naturally I declined.

I filed for UC and got my benefits. Had I signed the document they presented, the company would have used it to deny my claim. This happens all the time to people who are so intimidated and flustered at the time of their firing they sign anything put in front of them. Pennsylvania

86 This UC is evil. I sit on the board of a non-profit dedicated to providing legal services to the indigent. They lost some grant money last year and had to let a few people go. Had to turn one of the former employees in for fraud b/c they were doing cash work and not reporting it.
Anyway, we had to vote to send $10k to the UC because that would cut our rate for the next three years in half--an option that was slightly cheaper in the long run. This is in Texas!
Moral of the story: I've got an employee I want to fire but, now I think I'll just cut her hours until she quits.

 

87 Gabe,

Closing and reopening doesn't work in Michigan, as your new corporation simply inherits the former rate. My wife bought a building from the bank that they had foreclosed and the state stuck her with the rate of the business that had occupied the space previously.

The government is evil.

88

@ #92:

SCREW YOU, PETE.

89 The simplest solution to the whole fucking mess is the same one for healthcare - take it out of the company and governments hands and put it back with the individual.

You want unemployment insurance, you should be able to buy it like you do car or home insurance.  Don't want it?  Don't buy it. 

This soft fascism about the government taking care of me is such crap it make me want to fucking puke.

90

Only slightly off-topic, for those who think Illinois has hit bottom.  News flash: Nope!

New questions in 2005 arrest of Democratic lt. governor nominee generateDate('', '', 'Updated', '');

Scott Lee Cohen, a pawnbroker who was a surprise Democratic winner Tuesday, insists his girlfriend was not telling the truth in 2005 when she accused him of putting a knife to her throat. Cohen was arrested, but a domestic battery charge was dropped. The account of his then-girlfriend, who has a record for prostitution, is detailed in police and court records.

This is from today's Chicago Tribune.  I can never get url's to work correctly here on AOSHQ so you'll have to google it if you want to read the whole story.

Why anyone in the rest of the USA ever voted for a Chicago politician for president is just beyond comprehension.

91

This soft fascism about the government taking care of me is such crap it make me want to fucking puke.

This is NOT "soft fascism"; it is hard communism.

92 Small business owner in IL.  We lost a UC hearing after we had fired an employee for not coming to work.  Our fault?  We did not have a written rule stating that employees who do not come to work will be fired.  True story.

93
we should be ok as long as we never let a politician from Illinois anywhere near the White House...oh wait

94 Having an employer lose a UC hearing is quite common in my state - I work in Workforce Development on a state level - which is an at will employment state. However, UI here states that the employee must be terminated for misconduct. Misconduct is defined as something that violates explicit state or local laws and/or violates stated company policy. No policy stated explicitly you say? Well then its not misconduct

Of course on the flip side, I've had a company try to force an employer that they were laying off, to sign a document stating that she was being terminated due to a lack of work, in order to receive any stored up vacation benefits. Once she signed it, HR told her that she was not eligible to file for benefits because she had resigned. So she didn't file for two months until I met with her and it came up accidentally.

95

My former employer in Mich. had to pay into UC for 8 and a half years for me and I am not even allowed to collect it because I'm retired military.

Slightly off topic, we own a small landscaping company in Florida and recently had to turn down a couple contracts with one of the counties there. It would have meant an extra $16,000 net but they wanted us to have workmen's comp. Florida law only requires that if you have 4 or more employees. We only have two employees as my brother is an owner. I was going down and I am an owner. My nephew was going and he would have been the 3rd employee. The county insisted we had to have it so we turned them down. The WC would have zeroed out any money made on the contracts so in essence we'd be doing it for free.

96 Yesterday Governor Rell gave a speech to the legislature practically begging them to stop shafting small business and make the state more friendly to commerce. I'm sure nobody heard her.

Of course, we here in Oregon recently made our state more friendly to commerce and small business by passing two ballot measures increasing taxes on high-income earners and businesses.

Yeah, we sure showed those evil rich guys! We're right in the meddle of a recession so we increased taxes. Wowie-zowie! Prosperity and skittle-shitting unicorns, here we come!

97 46. We had a similar situation here at my job in CT. I work for a small company who in the last 20+ years has fired...NOT ONE PERSON. Last summer a girl resgned to take another job which ended up laying her off almost 6 months later..you know the rest of the story. Digging a hole and burning money in it would make more sense then UI...at least you would be warm.

98 As a very small business owner in Illinois (two employees), I had to pay unemployent taxes on both of us. But guess what? When I was laid up due to major heart surgery and my client base went away, I could not collect unemployment! My employee did, however. The business subsequently went belly up. So, I paid UE insurance for over a decade but could not use the benefit. Pretty Orwellian.

99

All ~

The commenters on the NYT Blog are flirting with danger. Calling someone a "contractor" who is really an "employee" (as defined by the tax and labor laws) is a recipe for disaster. The IRS has allocated $25 million this year to going after employers who misclassify their workers, and misclassification audits are due to start in February / March 2010. Why? The IRS knows the self-employed don't pay their taxes, so they want to ensure that they get their $ - and the easiest way is to go after the employers. Employee misclassification has finally popped up on the IRS's radar screen and it's going to get ugly. Once the "contractor" is reclassified as an "employee," look for "employees" to sue for overtime and lost benefits as well (google Microsoft / Vizcaino - I may have spelled that wrong, but it's a massive judgment against Microsoft for misclassifying employees as contractors - the contractors were awarded the value of all the benefits they missed out on while called "contractors").

I agree that the unemployment scheme screws microbusinesses. In TX, taxes are figured as a percentage of the first $9000 of wages paid. The tax rate goes up as the employer's "experience rating" goes up. A small business with 2 employees who fires 1 is going to appear to have a 50% experience rating. An employer with 1000 employees who lets one go has a 0.1% experience rating.

The NYT Blog commenters also talked about whether an employee was fired for "cause" and whether that would affect whether benefits are awarded. The rules are different in every state. In Texas, an employee is entitled to benefits unless fired for "misconduct," and that's hard to meet. Stealing, knifing a co-worker, count as misconduct. In New Mexico, if the employer can't show financial harm, the employee will be entitled to benefits.

What I'm saying is the Blog commenters, even the ones who claim to be employment lawyers and consultants/experts, have no idea what they are talking about and I would caution you not to take their advice.

The only thing I can tell my clients is spend several hours with an applicant before you hire him/her.  People can bluff you for an hour or two, but not a whole day.  Have everyone in the company interview him/her. Take them to lunch. Call every reference.  There is no replacement for due diligence on the front end.

100 Posted by: the other coyote at February 04, 2010 12:23 PM (yK44T)

But how are we supposed to know that YOU know what you are talking about?  I mean you cautioned us about listening to them.

101 I found a photo of the Dem Lt. Guv nominee here: http://tinyurl.com/yd7xbpg

102

Hey #92 Pete:  I think you meant we should "cue" Nelson.  Or possibly "qua", if you are inclined to Latin usages.

As it is, all you've said is "What Nelson?" in Spanish.  Typical fucking Canuck. 

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