February 14, 2010

2010 Vancouver Olympics Mens Hocke Preview And Sunday Olympic Thread
— DrewM

Luge, Nordic Combined, Biathlon and other crazy stuff you only see in the Winter Olympics.

Most important however is the Men's Hockey tournament which gets underway on Tuesday. In a never ending effort to get you football heads to appreciate the great game that is hockey, tmi3rd put together a look at the tournament (see below).

If you don't know much about hockey take a look at this classic Peter Puck video. If your of a certain age, it's probably how you learned about the game. Yes, it's dated (ignore the bit about 'two line passes', that's been dropped from the rules) but it's essentially the School House Rocks of hockey.

Here's tmi3rd's preview...

Greetings, fellow Morons. As a college hockey vet and now just interested hockey fan, itÂ’s nice to have the Olympics roll around every four years to have the rest of the country become distantly aware of a vastly-overlooked but great sport.

For those of you who donÂ’t know the difference between a blue line and a clothes line, Drew and I (your faithful hockey scribes) will cheerfully educate you with only the requisite amount of humiliation that the Moron Nation demands.

So letÂ’s get started. First of all, the Games are going to be in Vancouver- meaning that key matchups will be played in prime time, with a possible adjustment for the region (not unlike if youÂ’re a Lakers fan living on the East Coast or in the Midwest). The hockey games will take place at what is being called Canada Hockey Place (capacity 19,300, and formerly calledGM Place, home of your Vancouver Canucks) and at UBC Thunderbird Arena (capacity 6,800 on the campus of the University of British Columbia).

The NHL has its top players in these games. This may come to an end in 2014, but we’ll enjoy this one. Hockey doesn’t lend itself to the “Dream Team”-kind of setup like with basketball, because no one country dominates the sport. Even Canada- hockey’s home country- ended a massive drought of gold medals in Olympic competition in the Salt Lake games. Russia went through a very dry patch after the breakup of the Soviet Union and has only lately begun to reassert itself. And, of course, the United States are usually solid but not spectacular.

HereÂ’s a link to the complete hockey schedule.

There are twelve teams divided into three groups that play a round-robin format (3 games), and are then re-seeded 1-12 for elimination. Teams 1-4 will have a first-round bye, and they play single-elimination from there.

We mention this because the IIHF (International Ice Hockey Federation) canÂ’t ever make up its mind how it wants to handle the tournament year to year. So we just roll our eyes and make do.

So letÂ’s break down some of the key teams by groups from here:
Group A: Canada, Norway, Switzerland, United States

Canada could probably ice two teams that would have a shot at a gold medal. They start with ridiculous depth in goal, with New JerseyÂ’s future Hall Of Famer Martin Brodeur and VancouverÂ’s Roberto Luongo as their primary goaltenders. Their backup, PittsburghÂ’s Marc-Andre Fleury, made a game-saving save with two seconds left to win the Stanley Cup last year.

On defense, Canada boasts a ton of talent. AnaheimÂ’s Scott Niedermayer and PhiladelphiaÂ’s Chris Pronger (bona-fide hockey rock stars) anchor a talented blue line that also includes NashvilleÂ’s Shea Weber and San JoseÂ’s Dan Boyle. They combine size with speed and physicality, and do a fair amount of scoring in their own right.

At forward, one looks at CanadaÂ’s roster and has to kind of shake your head. Sidney Crosby, Joe Thornton, Eric Staal, Jarome IginlaÂ… the list goes on and on. These guys are a big chunk of the top-flight forwards in the game. Big, skilled, and physical.

Canada are obviously favorites to win the whole thing, especially on their home ice. The one thing theyÂ’ll be acutely aware of is how much pressure theyÂ’ll have on them to win from their fansÂ… the Canadian press is known to turn on its hockey teams when theyÂ’re not perfect. Look for them to play a strong defensive game and be opportunistic offensively.

The United States historically pulls off a great tournament about once every 20 years. 1960, 1980, 2002, and so forthÂ… they won the World Cup of Hockey in 1996 in front of a very hostile Canadian crowd over a three-game series. Expectations arenÂ’t terribly high for this group, but it does have its strengths.

In goal, BuffaloÂ’s Ryan Miller is coming in playing as well as anyone in the game. BostonÂ’s Tim Thomas and LAÂ’s Jonathan Quick have been streaky this year, but Quick is leading the league in wins, and Thomas had a great run with Boston last year.

The US lost two of its key defensemen to injury in TorontoÂ’s Mike Komisarek and New JerseyÂ’s Paul Martin. That hurts. They still have a solid corps in NashvilleÂ’s Ryan Suter, DetroitÂ’s Brian Rafalski, and St. LouisÂ’s Erik Johnson. TheyÂ’re young and physical, and can occasionally chip in a fair amount of offense.

Up front, there isnÂ’t a whole lot of star power. Given how young these guys are (average age is around 22-23 years old), the key for them will be disciplined play. They do have firepower in ChicagoÂ’s Patrick Kane, TorontoÂ’s Phil Kessel, New JerseyÂ’s Zach Parise, and AnaheimÂ’s Bobby Ryan, but the depth leaves something to be desired. Look for them to play a more methodical game-very careful defensively, and more of a counter-punching strategy offensively.

Switzerland has a couple of talented players- former Colorado goaltender David Aebischer, to name one- and did pull off a couple of upsets last time. Norway lacks any real firepower or name players, and will likely trail the pack.

Projected finish in group A: 1. Canada 2: USA 3: Switzerland 4: Norway

Group B: Czech Republic, Latvia, Russia, Slovakia

The Czech Republic last won gold in 1998 in Nagano with a defensively perfect game and some of the most boring hockey ever played. Since then, they havenÂ’t done as well, but they have plenty of firepower from Jaromir Jagr, ColoradoÂ’s Milan Hejduk, and New JerseyÂ’s Patrik Elias.

Defensively, they have some names, but guys like MontrealÂ’s Roman Hamrlik and MinnesotaÂ’s Marek Zidlicky are going to need to spend more time playing defense than the scoring theyÂ’ve previously been known for.

In net, FloridaÂ’s Tomas Vokoun has been superb for years.

Slovakia will also play some tough hockey. ItÂ’s a shame fighting isnÂ’t allowed in Olympic hockey, because the Czechs and Slovaks donÂ’t like each other. In their World Cup of Hockey encounters, the games periodically would resemble a bar fight more than a game.

At forward, they boast names like the NY RangersÂ’ Marian Gaborik, DetroitÂ’s Marian Hossa, and PittsburghÂ’s awesomely-named Miroslav Satan. TheyÂ’ll score a good number of goals.

On defense, the Slovaks boast two 6’7”, 230-lb defensemen- Boston’s Zdeno Chara and Kristian Kurdoc of the Swedish Elite League. They obviously have size, but will have some vulnerabilities.

In goal, the Slovaks have two middle-of-the-road goaltenders in ColoradoÂ’s Peter Budaj and MontrealÂ’s Jaroslav Halak.

Russia is the favorite in this group, and maybe in the whole shooting match. Their firepower is unmatched. Up front, they may start a line of WashingtonÂ’s Alexander Ovechkin, PittsburghÂ’s Evgeni Malkin, and New JerseyÂ’s Ilya Kovalchuk. ThatÂ’s a ton of star power, and it doesnÂ’t really fall off from there.

RussiaÂ’s Achilles heel will be their defensive corps. PittsburghÂ’s Sergei Gonchar and MontrealÂ’s Andrei Markov are the headliners on a group of defensemen who play on porous defensive teams. They lack stay-at-home defensemen to match up with their scorers, and that may cost them against solid defensive teams.

They make up for their defensive shortcomings in net- San JoseÂ’s Evgeni Nabokov and PhoenixÂ’s Ilya Bryzgalov are the equal of just about anyone in hockey at the moment.

Projected finish in Group B: 1. Russia 2. Czech Republic 3. Slovakia 4. Latvia

Group C: Belarus, Finland, Germany , Sweden

The two big hitters in this group are Finland and Sweden (insert Scandi jokes here). The Swedes won the gold against Finland in 2004, and both are quick, tough and physical. These are two teams that also donÂ’t like each other.

Sweden boasts forwards like DetroitÂ’s Henrik Zetterberg and VancouverÂ’s Sedin twins, along with perennial pest Tomas Holmstrom of Detroit. Peter Forsberg has decided to give his gimpy ankles a run as well.

On defense, Sweden has future Hall of Famer Nicklas Lidstrom (Detroit) to anchor a young defensive corps. Though solid, their lack of experience may be a bit of an issue.

In net, the RangersÂ’ Henrik Lundqvist is the defending gold medal winner- although heÂ’s been very inconsistent this year, just ask Drew (Drew says...Actually, he's had maybe 2, 2-3 game streaks where he wasn't great but overall he's been fantastic behind a very mediocre team. More importantly, he's playing his best hockey of the season the last week or two). HeÂ’ll be backed up by TorontoÂ’s Jonas Gustavsson, who is on the rise but needs to gain experience.

Finally, Finland preaches a defense-first mentality that also has impressive counter-punching ability. TheyÂ’re a little long in the tooth, but will still be quite formidable.

Up front, Teemu Selanne, Jarko and Tuomo Ruutu, Jere Lehtinen, and Olli Jokinen headline a very solid-two-way group of forwards. TheyÂ’ll score enough goals, but will also suffocate other teams defensively. If Finland plays their game, they wll be a test of any teamÂ’s conditioning.

On defense, PhillyÂ’s Kimmo Timonnen and VancouverÂ’s Sami Salo lead a big, physical defensive corps that moves the puck well. Each of FinlandÂ’s six defensemen seem to have an ideal mix of defendersÂ’ attributes with the puck skills to get the puck to the net.

In net, Finland may have the deepest goaltending outside of Canada. MinnesotaÂ’s Nicklas Backstrom, CalgaryÂ’s Mikka Kiprusoff, and Tampa BayÂ’s Antero Nittymaki are absolute rock stars. Any of the three can steal games on their own.

Group C Projected Finish: 1. Finland 2. Sweden 3. Germany 4. Belarus.

In the bigger picture, figure that Canada, Russia, Finland, and either Sweden, the Czechs, or the US will get the bye in the elimination round. Single elimination games are probably more precarious in hockey than even the NCAA basketball tournament. Case in point- in Salt Lake City, Belarus defeated Sweden in single elimination, after Sweden had dismantled eventual gold medalist Canada. Belarus won on one bad bounce, poorly played by Swedish goaltender Tommy Salo.

Translated: trying to guess beyond the first round is an exercise in utter futility.

Anyway, thatÂ’s a primer. Drew and I will weigh in down the road. Team USAÂ’s first game is against Switzerland at noon on February 16.

Posted by: DrewM at 10:21 AM | Comments (138)
Post contains 1819 words, total size 12 kb.

1 Total waste of time ever since the USSR and the Eastern Bloc went tits up. Could not care less. Healthy bastards.

Posted by: eman at February 14, 2010 10:23 AM (4tixt)

2 Short track skating is like roller derby.  The slow tactical stuff seems to be the norm.  I keep waiting to see someone just decide that they are the fastest man out there and take off right from the start and defy the others to keep up. 

Posted by: toby928 at February 14, 2010 10:31 AM (PD1tk)

3

Peter Puck? Wow. I feel old. Got any Schoolhouse Rock videos?

Posted by: Luca Brasi at February 14, 2010 10:33 AM (sHSdO)

4

I keep waiting for the Olympics to add a real mans sport like Tranvestite Jello Wrestling. Until then.....


....I bid you adieu.

Posted by: Charles Johnson at February 14, 2010 10:34 AM (t72+4)

5 Have they defended the Olympics or something?  We have been discussing how many events where there is no American competing at all and we know there have been Americans competing in the past.

Posted by: curious at February 14, 2010 10:35 AM (p302b)

6 Thanks for that hockey primer - I confess to having been confused by the offsides/icing rules whenever I have seen a game, now I understand it better.

Posted by: chemjeff at February 14, 2010 10:38 AM (Gk/wA)

7 What happened with the Canadian women's hockey team?   My friends are saying "isn't there a mercy rule in the Olympics?"

Posted by: curious at February 14, 2010 10:44 AM (p302b)

8 Yeah, it's lucky to have the Olympics in a place two hours behind me. Watching the Australian Open every year is horrific when the prime time stuff starts at 3 AM.

Posted by: Dack Thrombosis at February 14, 2010 10:44 AM (P33XN)

9 @6

Turn in your man card, chemjeff.  Even I understand icing!  ;-)

I always enjoy hockey (North American style, with checking) when I watch it, but I can't become a fan until they start broadcasting it more consistently.  I'm not going to pay for an NHL package to get into a sport. 

Posted by: Y-not at February 14, 2010 10:48 AM (X69zM)

10

Drew, about that proposal at the Rangers game you have linked in the sidebar to Twitter, is there video of it?

Posted by: Blazer at February 14, 2010 10:53 AM (t72+4)

11 Posted by: Blazer at February 14, 2010 02:53 PM (t72+4)

Not that I've seen yet but when they game back from a commercial the announcers talked about it.

Posted by: DrewM. at February 14, 2010 10:55 AM (9B5OK)

12 O/T:  All my friends got an email today asking them to pledge free hours to the campaign.  They are never forthcoming about the details.  Apparently the campaign wants to log in 5 million hours or something like that and they have 400,000 already.  My friends are bragging about how he will win re election cause everyone has the push on.  Wonder what all those free hours of labor are worth.  Anyone see this email?

Posted by: curious at February 14, 2010 10:55 AM (p302b)

13 All you need to know about hockey, is Crosby is a bitch.


Posted by: Unclefacts, Summoner of Meteors, and Buckets of Scorn for the Left at February 14, 2010 10:56 AM (erIg9)

14 Crosby is a bitch.

Actually, according to Brandon Dubinski, it's "Little Baby".

I agree but in fairness, Crosby is great. He's also cut a lot of the diving out and he's a tough kid. He gets hit a hell of a lot more than a guy like Gretzky ever did.

Still Ovechkin is by far the best player in the game.

Posted by: DrewM. at February 14, 2010 10:59 AM (9B5OK)

15 Still Ovechkin is by far the best player in the game.

Posted by: DrewM. at February 14, 2010 02:59 PM (9B5OK)


yep. that I'd agree with. AO is one I would trade half the sabres for in a heartbeat

Posted by: Unclefacts, Summoner of Meteors, and Buckets of Scorn for the Left at February 14, 2010 11:02 AM (erIg9)

16

Hockeh -

Where the men are men and the Dentists use no anesthesia!

It's about time you morons learned what an athlete looks like...and remember they are on fuckin' ice!  So, when you run into them at a bar - don't pick a fight.

 

Posted by: garrett at February 14, 2010 11:02 AM (UNOPX)

17

Got any Schoolhouse Rock videos?

 

"Inter-planet Janet is the galaxy Queen!"

Posted by: garrett at February 14, 2010 11:04 AM (UNOPX)

18 Hocke Preview
Hocke? Is that anything like ringette?

Posted by: Waterhouse at February 14, 2010 11:05 AM (jevEj)

19 NHL'ers in the Olympics? Pure Bull Shit.

Posted by: Pecos Bill at February 14, 2010 11:05 AM (8WOM0)

20

I'm not going to pay for an NHL package to get into a sport. 

Worth it for the reduced rate come playoff time!

...but find a good local bar that plays hockey games and make a point to watch one or two a week with teh local fans.  It will aid in your journey, grasshopper.

Posted by: garrett at February 14, 2010 11:06 AM (UNOPX)

21 I like hockey but there is no was I'm reading all that.

Posted by: Dr. Spank at February 14, 2010 11:07 AM (muUqs)

22

 a never ending effort to get you football heads to appreciate the great game that is hockey

So you're a social engineer, too, huh.

Posted by: The One at February 14, 2010 11:11 AM (gbCNS)

23

BTW - Datsyuk is a way better hockey player than Ovie.  Ovie is not yet as compete as Pavel.

Sedin Brothers, Zetterberg, Havlat, Kovalchuk, Gaborick, Malkin, Kane, Toews, Hossa, J., Thornton, Getzlaf, Iginla...really, the league is stacked with ridiculous talent.  Good time to be a Hockey fan.

Posted by: garrett at February 14, 2010 11:11 AM (UNOPX)

24 The US women are playing China right now. No truth to the rumor China confiscated half our hockey sticks due to debt obligations.

Posted by: Dr. Spank at February 14, 2010 11:14 AM (muUqs)

25

...but find a good local bar that plays hockey games and make a point to watch one or two a week with teh local fans.  It will aid in your journey, grasshopper.

Posted by: garrett at February 14, 2010 03:06 PM

Yeah, that's a good idea.

Actually, I've offered to accompany Mr. Y-not to our local minor league team's games.  I even offered to dress like a hockey bimbo and try to get selected to go out of the ice during intermission (do they still do that?). 

Because I'm a giver. 

Posted by: Y-not at February 14, 2010 11:17 AM (X69zM)

26

When the Olympics add a real sport like Downhill Fisting to the list of events, give me a call.

Posted by: Charles Johnson at February 14, 2010 11:18 AM (t72+4)

27 I think Bode Miller participated in the "Downhill Fisting" in the last Winter Olympics.

Posted by: Dr. Spank at February 14, 2010 11:21 AM (muUqs)

28 Sounds like you guys play women's hockey.

Posted by: Hanson Brothers at February 14, 2010 11:21 AM (Nu1ow)

29 Breaking it down for you, the Cleft Palate notes version: Hockey Sticks are used in Hockey (oddly enough), therefor (ergo, etc etc) Hockey is fake (ipso facto, QED, lorem ipsum dolor sit amet). Are there any players named Mann or Jones? Fucked.

Posted by: The Dread Pirate Neck Beard at February 14, 2010 11:23 AM (utJ0x)

30


Oh yea, and cross-country epic picture taking, they need to add that one too. I'm pretty sure I could medal in that one.

Posted by: Charles Johnson at February 14, 2010 11:23 AM (t72+4)

31 Hockey's the Rodney Dangerfield of sports.    Hockey players are tough to the point of being psycho.   A baseball player pulls a muscle and is on the DL for three weeks.  A hockey player gets hit in the mouth with a puck, loses a bunch of teeth and sustains a gash that takes 30 stitches to close, and he still comes back for the third period.  Now that's a  man.

Posted by: Ombudsman at February 14, 2010 11:25 AM (y4B2y)

32 Also, I actually like hockey (yeah, Pens!), but it could do without all that tedious "chasing the puck around" bit. Fist on face on ice! (yeah, Pengies!)

Posted by: The Dread Pirate Neck Beard at February 14, 2010 11:25 AM (utJ0x)

33

#23

Datsyuk is IMO the best center on the planet. However, I'd have to respectfully disagree with your Ovie comments. #8 is a freak of nature. Players of his caliber might come along every other generation or so in their respective sport.

Posted by: Cheney's Power Mane at February 14, 2010 11:25 AM (wlE4Z)

34 What channel shows the NHL on a regular basis?

Posted by: Dr. Spank at February 14, 2010 11:26 AM (muUqs)

35 Just your typical hockey injury .

Posted by: The Dread Pirate Neck Beard at February 14, 2010 11:28 AM (utJ0x)

36 What channel shows the NHL on a regular basis?

Versus, I believe.  Formerly the Outdoor Channel.  

Of the four major sports, Hockey is the one that's much better in person than on TV.   

Posted by: Ombudsman at February 14, 2010 11:30 AM (y4B2y)

37 I'd pay good money to see Dick Cheney play hockey.

Posted by: don't mess with Dick at February 14, 2010 11:31 AM (Ue9UN)

38
I'd pay good money to see Dick Cheney play hockey.







Well one things for sure, we know what he'll be smacking that puck around with.

Posted by: Blazer at February 14, 2010 11:33 AM (t72+4)

39

Primer? That's as good an analysis as there is.

BTW, offsides is the key to hockey. On offense, you have to do what Peter Puck said: get the puck across the blue line. On defense, the first objective is to get the puck back across the blue line into center ice, which forces all of the attacking players to also go back out into center ice.

Also worth noting is how penalties are assessed. A player who commits a penalty leaves the ice, giving his team the disadvantage of being outnumbered (usually) for two minutes. The team with the advantage is said to be on a power play, with the disadvantaged team to be penalty killing. Icing is not called against a penalty killing team.

Sorry to extend the primer. It's just that I've found that new fans of the game enjoy it a lot more if they get these points. Everything else is details.

Go, USA! (Though I think Slovakia is going to surprise a lot of people.)

Posted by: FireHorse at February 14, 2010 11:34 AM (cQyWA)

40 Well the USA is beating China in women's hockey 4-0. And some of them are pretty cute also

Posted by: nevergiveup at February 14, 2010 11:34 AM (ekqTc)

41 Hockey is a very complete sport. It has the physicality (is that a real word?) of football, the stamina requirements of basketball, and the hand eye finesse of baseball.

Posted by: Semper Gumby at February 14, 2010 11:35 AM (wlE4Z)

42 Make that 5-0

Posted by: nevergiveup at February 14, 2010 11:35 AM (ekqTc)

43 As an Avs fan, I know Hejduk won't be at the Olympics (recovering from knee surgery right now).

Posted by: Dude at February 14, 2010 11:37 AM (TmzDu)

44 Drew: be sure to use the flaming skull upon a report of a Claudine Longet sighting in Vancouver.

Posted by: Herr Blücher at February 14, 2010 11:37 AM (OLnQ/)

45 I'd pay good money to see Dick Cheney play hockey.

Ah, his ticker couldn't take it.  I like him where he is, being a pain in the ass to the administration and driving the libs apoplectic.

I never understand why the lefties get so unhinged about Cheyney (although it's highly amusing).  When you hear him speak, he's sober, intelligent, reflective, low key.  He's not a bomb thrower.  He sounds eminently intelligent and believable and has gravitas in spades.  And he's so adept at sticking the shiv in and twisting it, all without raising his voice.

Posted by: Ombudsman at February 14, 2010 11:38 AM (y4B2y)

46 I believe China had 1 shot on goal in the 1st period.

Posted by: Dr. Spank at February 14, 2010 11:40 AM (muUqs)

47

Can't wait. Most of the clubs have real burners. If you love hockey like I do you'll appreciate the dipsy doodle moves, speed and toughness. The best goalies in the world are here also. This is the winter olympics.

 Calgary is a hockey Mecca. The olympic organization for Hockey Canada is headquartered here. The Flames are one of the cornerstones of the NHL. We get 20k sellouts for the junior Hitmen. The amateur hockey is non stop. The Mac's Midget tounament is the World's best. We set the Guiness record for the most players in a weekend tournament, with close to 12 k players in our 3on 3 pond hockey. This went 24 hours a day for 3.5 days. Do you know that there are over a quarter of a million Americans in Calgary? Many are superb hockey players. I know because I play with and against some of them. The college guys are quite skilled. Of course, i'm taken about the alzeimers age group.

 There's a huge contingent of Calgary fans helping Vancouver in all the sports.

Posted by: chicocano at February 14, 2010 11:41 AM (6p3E9)

48

y-not - minor league hockeh is awesome and fun and the cuties gets to shoot the puck at intermission time!

33 - Ovie can be the best ever.  Certainly a combo of physical prowess and skill like none other...but he has a really hot head.  Takes a lot of cheap shots at other star players.  He lacks the ability to puck hound like Datsuyk.  He has the skill set and the vision, bt he lacks the experience and throws himself at the game with a little too much abandon, for me.

 It kills me to say it as the ex-wife is from Detroit, but Pavel would still be my first choice in a league wide draft.  He makes every player on the ice with him better. His hands and his eyes are without parrallel right now.  (no doubt Dr. Ramadhi is part of this equation!) 

Posted by: garrett at February 14, 2010 11:41 AM (UNOPX)

49 I'm watching the Daytona 500.  The race is stopped because the track broke.  That's right, the track broke.  Asphalt is peeling.  Boneheads.  It's your Super Bowl, the race that attracts casual fans, and you can't even make sure your playing surface is intact?  Talk about shooting yourself in the foot.

Posted by: Ombudsman at February 14, 2010 11:42 AM (y4B2y)

50

Who fed the Chinese team downers before the game started?

Lookin' a little slow out there...

Posted by: Dack Thrombosis at February 14, 2010 11:46 AM (P33XN)

51 Ovechkin is more exciting than Crosby, but Crosby is the more complete player.

Also, Ovechkin plays with an edge that is likely to catch up with his body, like Pavel Bure or Cam Neely. I suspect Ovechkin will have a shorter career than Crosby, or at least won't be able to maintain the numbers over the long haul.

Posted by: Beaver Paladin at February 14, 2010 11:47 AM (EeyGc)

52


Who fed the Chinese team downers before the game started?

Lookin' a little slow out there...

Posted by: Dack Thrombosis at February 14, 2010 03:46 PM (P33XN)





Maybe they're just depressed because someone owes them a whole lot of money.

Posted by: Blazer at February 14, 2010 11:47 AM (t72+4)

53 Some changes for hockey: The puck is replaced by a football. Sticks are right out. No more skates. Can't use your hands unless you are a goalie or you bribe the refs. Naked cheerleaders. (Rotated out in groups of three every five minutes)

Posted by: eman at February 14, 2010 11:48 AM (4tixt)

54 Some changes for hockey

The penalty box should be replaced with stocks.

Posted by: toby928 at February 14, 2010 11:52 AM (PD1tk)

55

41 ...ALL ON ICE!  

[Three-Five Fames per week...as opposed to one every 8 days on average for Football (teh gheyest).]

Posted by: garrett at February 14, 2010 11:53 AM (UNOPX)

56 I have a question.  When a hockey team goes for a line change, at what point can the subs go over the wall?  Is it when the players on the ice start toward the bench? or when they reach the wall or what?

Posted by: toby928 at February 14, 2010 11:53 AM (PD1tk)

57 It's official: our goalie just started taking a nap.

Posted by: Dack Thrombosis at February 14, 2010 11:54 AM (P33XN)

58 Brooks Orpik scored a goal today.  He's now on pace to score one goal every year and a half.  The tournament field had better be prepared to deal with him.

BTW, I might buy the "Ovechkin is best" line when the Caps get past the Penguins and then win the cup.  He's been working with just as much supporting talent as Crosby, and got beat last year.  Ovechkin is the best scorer.  Crosby is second or third best scorer, best faceoff man (leads league in faceoff wins), best shootout guy (6 of , better defensive player (and he plays a more difficult defensive position center vs winger), and he's won the cup.  Right now, it's no contest until Ovechkin wins.

Posted by: forest at February 14, 2010 11:55 AM (cRmbe)

59 USA hockey girls up 6-0 already over China.

Posted by: mystry at February 14, 2010 11:57 AM (kmgIE)

60 Posted by: toby928 at February 14, 2010 03:53 PM (PD1tk)

There's no hard and fast distance, it's kind of a feel thing. The important part is the player coming on can't touch the puck until the player he is replacing is off the ice.

Posted by: DrewM. at February 14, 2010 11:57 AM (9B5OK)

61 Actually, a correction to my number 60...

The rule if 5 feet. Still, there's no line or anything, it's a bit of interpretation thing by the linesmen if they are going to call something.

Posted by: DrewM. at February 14, 2010 12:00 PM (9B5OK)

62 Minnesota Wild and playing Vancouver Canucks right now...

Posted by: Z Ryan at February 14, 2010 12:01 PM (cMo6P)

63

It's upposed to be when they reach the bench, but the refs usually give them 10 feet or so. And like Drew said, the new player can't touch the puck until the guy leaving is on the bench.

When I played, we used to shoot the puck into the crowd in front of the bench trying to get a too-many-men penalty on the other team. The other team didn't appreciate it very much.

Posted by: Luca Brasi at February 14, 2010 12:02 PM (sHSdO)

64 Thanks for the answer.  My brother is the hockey fan not me.  I wondered if it was a kind of concede the offense type thing where once its clear that the on the ice player was not in play the sub could go in.  As I understand you, it's the reverse.  The new player concedes offense until the original guy gets to the bench.  Right?

Posted by: toby928 at February 14, 2010 12:02 PM (PD1tk)

65 North American style, with checking Those Euro-weenies can pass, but they play like it is a no contact sport.

Posted by: fluffy at February 14, 2010 12:04 PM (4Kl5M)

66 Lots of interesting hockey stuff to read here while the real sport, NASCAR, takes a break to patch some asphalt.


Posted by: dutchcedar at February 14, 2010 12:05 PM (2Ec7d)

67 Pfft, it's not REAL hockey unless it's played outdoors, at night, on a rink that's illuminated by the headlights of the cars you drove there with!

Posted by: ExurbanKevin at February 14, 2010 12:08 PM (toqoX)

68 There's no hard and fast distance, it's kind of a feel thing. The important part is the player coming on can't touch the puck until the player he is replacing is off the ice. The NHL seems to cut a lot more slack on that than the Euro-weenies.

Posted by: fluffy at February 14, 2010 12:08 PM (4Kl5M)

69

Looks like the Philly morning rush hour at Daytona. Lots of people sitting around watching a PENNDOT crew take hours to fix a pothole.

Posted by: Luca Brasi at February 14, 2010 12:10 PM (sHSdO)

70

Looks like the Philly morning rush hour at Daytona. Lots of people sitting around watching a PENNDOT crew take hours to fix a pothole.

Posted by: Luca Brasi at February 14, 2010 04:10 PM (sHSdO)





If its anything like VDOT, the lots of people sitting around is the PENNDOT crew.

Posted by: Blazer at February 14, 2010 12:12 PM (t72+4)

71 Looks like the Philly morning rush hour at Daytona. Lots of people sitting around watching a PENNDOT crew take hours to fix a pothole.

Nah, it's only been about 50 minutes.  PENNDOTers would still be in their trucks sipping their coffee.

Posted by: Ombudsman at February 14, 2010 12:13 PM (y4B2y)

72 Ah, hockey, the fastest-moving form of boredom known to man. As I've said before (although not here), Victorians had to go through a whole rigamarol about blocks of granite and tiny, beak-whetting birds to describe Eternity: fortunate We, who have only to say it's about twice as long as the Stanley Cup playoffs.

Posted by: PersonFromPorlock at February 14, 2010 12:14 PM (BbTsC)

73

If its anything like VDOT, the lots of people sitting around is the PENNDOT crew.

It's usually one guy filling the hole and three dudes with coffees in their hands standing around watching him. Another guy might be nearby talking on a cellphone.

Posted by: Dack Thrombosis at February 14, 2010 12:14 PM (P33XN)

74 Nah, it's only been about 50 minutes.  PENNDOTers would still be in their trucks sipping their coffee.

And after that, they move on to the "leaning on shovels" stage.

Posted by: Ombudsman at February 14, 2010 12:14 PM (y4B2y)

75

Joke:  Why do Canadians like doing it doggy-style?

Answer: So they can both watch the Hockey Game

Posted by: JoeRiverside at February 14, 2010 12:15 PM (Q8mTD)

76

It's usually one guy filling the hole and three dudes with coffees in their hands standing around watching him. Another guy might be nearby talking on a cellphone.

Posted by: Dack Thrombosis

We're not talking about your home movies.

Posted by: Z Ryan at February 14, 2010 12:15 PM (cMo6P)

77 Yep. That's why it takes 8 hours to fill a 5 foot pothole. Union rules.

Posted by: Luca Brasi at February 14, 2010 12:16 PM (sHSdO)

78
And after that, they move on to the "leaning on shovels" stage.

Posted by: Ombudsman at February 14, 2010 04:14 PM (y4B2y)





I call it the "kickstand stage".

Posted by: Blazer at February 14, 2010 12:16 PM (t72+4)

79

Shovel Ready Job # 3,257,998.

You are welcome, America!

Posted by: Super Joe Biden at February 14, 2010 12:19 PM (UNOPX)

80

We're not talking about your home movies.

I forgot about the guy with the camera. And the guy waving the orange flags.

Posted by: Dack Thrombosis at February 14, 2010 12:19 PM (P33XN)

81

For those who are dismissive of the biathalon, especially the wimmens, take a gander at this..

...it'll change your perspective

..unless you're PA....maybe

Posted by: beedubya at February 14, 2010 12:20 PM (AnTyA)

82

Dont forget about 'sitting on five gallon bucket reading the newspaper guy'


Posted by: Blazer at February 14, 2010 12:21 PM (t72+4)

83 go back to CaNADA... nobody cares about Hockey...

Posted by: Kaptain Amerika at February 14, 2010 12:22 PM (orGYr)

84 Chick hockey:  Canada beat Slovakia 18-0.  In 2008, Slovakia beat some other Eastern Bloc country (Bulgaria?) 82-0.

Hey, you hockey experts.  How the hell do you score 82 times in a hockey game. 

Posted by: FUBAR at February 14, 2010 12:25 PM (1fanL)

85 Boy, you'd think I'd spend more time on a thread I co-authored, so...

Hi from New Orleans, fellow Morons... last one for me and the wife for a while, as our first child is due shortly.

Dude, thanks for the update on Hejduk... we're dumping Charter Cable for DirecTV so that we can get a few decent channels and customer service that doesn't more closely resemble prison rape... part of the benefit of that is the NHL Network.

Anyway, watching the US ladies beat on China... they've kind of called off the dogs here, but an interesting anecdote for you about Team Canada- when I was working for the ECHL's New Orleans Brass in the late 90s, we had a goaltender whose sister is on Team Canada. Nice girl, really pretty, and I asked her how it was. She replied, "I've never felt so feminine in my life."

Posted by: tmi3rd at February 14, 2010 12:27 PM (P+yA/)

86 There is no truth to the rumor that we have replaced the boards and glass surrounding the rink with steel pillars.  We wanted to, but didn't think it appropriate for the inexperienced hockey players.

Posted by: Int'l Olympic Committee at February 14, 2010 12:28 PM (Vc/xe)

87 nobody cares about Hockey... Posted by: Kaptain Amerika at February 14, 2010 04:22 PM (orGYr) Don't make me teabag you, Boy.

Posted by: T. Bagg the teabagger at February 14, 2010 12:30 PM (4Kl5M)

88 Women's Hockey - Yea!  Hubba Hubba!

I say this because I recently dated a 45 y/o club player.  Cute as a button, wonderfully feminine figure, platinum blonde hair, and sweet demeanor, great T&A.

A goalie too.  She was a bit too good at "Stop that Puck!"

Posted by: Whitehall at February 14, 2010 12:30 PM (UTSWD)

89 Re: Women's 'Hockey'...yeah it's crap and shouldn't be in the Olympics.

There are only 2 teams (US and Canada) that are remotely competitive with each other and even then, the quality of play is low.

Posted by: DrewM. at February 14, 2010 12:32 PM (9B5OK)

90 All the rules you need to know for hockey:
If you lead with the hand that is closer to the target, it's a jab. If you use the other hand, it's a cross. If you sweep your hands around, that's a hook. If you're punching up from underneath, that's an uppercut. Haymakers are graduate studies for hockeyplayers.

Make sure the other idiot loses the helmet, because those fraking hurt. Make sure you lose the gloves, because it is tough to pummel someone effectively while they're still on there. Make sure your dental insurance is paid up.

Once you've dropped a glove or lost a helmet, there's no reason to avoid making sure you get a solid jab, cross, hook, hook into the other guy - you're going to get a penalty anyway, might as well make someone suffer for it. Note also that you can switch targets - you'll rarely get a double penalty for fighting, and they'll both feel obligated to retaliate.

There are limits in hockey. Really. The bottom of the skate isn't exactly like a knife, but it can (and has) kill people. No stepping  on, kicking, etc. Jumping into the stands to pummel an idiot is also verboten mostly because it's bad for your skates. The stripy guys are supposed to be off limits, so you have to use the familiar football 'there was a receiver in the area!' defense if you want a punch or two at them.

Otherwise, most anything goes. The most vicious thing that won't always get you completely ejected from the game is 'Spearing'. Think Sir Lancelot. Usually it's more like leaving the bare knob of the stick protruding from the glove when you push/punch someone. High-sticking, slashing and crosschecking are other "aggravated assault with a deadly weapon that we'll only call a five-to-fifteen minute penalty cause the other guy likes it" oddities.

Hooking and tripping are basically a waste of a penalty. You're much better off with boarding or interference. Interference is wiping someone out when they don't have the little black thing. So it's kind of useful to time things just right. Unlike football, you don't have to wait for the receiver to actually touch the puck before you introduce him to lala-land.

Wait, one more set: There's two guys dressed up as Freddy Kruger out there, and they seem to have a license-to-slash-at-will. The freaking goalie sticks are about a +3 mace with increased pain allotment when they're applied to the back of your calves or knees - so just say no. On the other hand, if you're helping out the goalie on your own side, there's pretty much a complete rules-relaxation-zone as far as dealing with intruders. So make it count.

Posted by: Al at February 14, 2010 12:34 PM (0lyUI)

91 Since my fave players didn't make Team USA, I'm going with Team Canada this year.

Posted by: Miss'80sBaby at February 14, 2010 12:37 PM (sZ+lP)

92 BTW- the Slovak goaltender's really cute! Also, you hear about 82-0 finals when one team is ridculously outmatched.

Posted by: tmi3rd at February 14, 2010 12:40 PM (P+yA/)

93 Miss 80's, (#91) how can you say that? Team USA has Joe Pavelski, the ultimate blue collar overachiever. I mean - Joe Pavelski - just the name says All-American guy! Mike Modano of the Dallas Stars is another truly classy guy and a magnificent player. (Kudos to San Jose Sharks fans who have every reason to wish Modano ill, but gave him a big ovation when he became the highest-scoring American-born player while scoring two goals on their home ice.)

Posted by: Colin MacDougall at February 14, 2010 12:47 PM (Q3v7q)

94 #23, #33

Datsyuk has heaps of talent, but only once did he actually show up for a post-season.  Regular-season pizzazz means nothing if you can't deliver in April and May.  The best players know how to notch it up when cup time rolls around.  With a few exceptions, it's almost always the Canadians and Americans that can actually do that.  How many times have we seen star Europeans and Russians vanish in the playoffs, Datsuyk included.

Posted by: Kevin Canuck at February 14, 2010 01:12 PM (eXcBd)

95 f in french....they sneak up on you and overtake you....?  We should have gotten the gold and the bronze....

Posted by: curious at February 14, 2010 01:12 PM (p302b)

96 the frenchman has an american father and a french mother and was born in missoula montana and isn't competing for the USA?????

Posted by: curious at February 14, 2010 01:14 PM (p302b)

97 These nbc announcers this year are very confusing and I think they themselves are confused.  They're rambling in some instances....

Posted by: curious at February 14, 2010 01:16 PM (p302b)

98 Great analysis!  I agree except that I think Sweden will come out of group 4 on top.

Some updates:

Hossa no longer plays for Detroit.

Holmstrom is out with a knee in his last game yesterday.  He will be replaced for Sweden by Detroit teammate Franzen (6-3, 220) - a big, strong forward and a scorer who has something like a goal a game in the playoffs the last two years.

Kronwall will also be on the blue line for Sweden and is a solid, experienced defenseman (Detroit) who hits like a train.

Datsyuk will be key for the Ruskies because of his 2-way game, if there is any weakness in Ovie's game, it is this.

Posted by: Robert at February 14, 2010 01:18 PM (cd6Ip)

99 96, that happens a lot. if someone isn't good enough to make the USA team, if they have a dual citizernship, they can go play for the other country. If I remember correctly, when baseball was an olympic sport, there were a few Italian-Americans who played for Team Italy. It didn't really help the team, but the players got to be olympians when they otherwise wouldn't have.

Posted by: Luca Brasi at February 14, 2010 01:21 PM (sHSdO)

100 Michael J. Fox is gonna kick some canuck ass!

Posted by: Meredith Vieira at February 14, 2010 01:31 PM (d7Px0)

101 They took women's softball out of the Olympics because it "wasn't competitive". Women's hockey may have to go the same route.

Of course, as soon as they tossed softball, Japan upset the USA for the gold medal. Ooops.

Posted by: Luca Brasi at February 14, 2010 01:43 PM (sHSdO)

102

94 #23, #33

I recall him showing up last year...plus his team has been waning as his personal skills have expanded beyond mere puck magic.

He could be more standout in the playoffs, for sure.  Who couldn't?

 But offense comes from more than just shooters and passers...of which he is anchored amongst the tops in the league.  Look at his takeaway #'s and his posession skills  as those make all of the players on the ice with him better.  

Note also, that the last two seasons, he has done the yeoman's pull through the regular season while his counterparts on the team were injured for long stretches. 

Ovie has a long road ahead of him if he wants to satisfy the goals you set forward for post-season success = Hockey Talent.

Crosby is a bit ahead of him in that regard (ovie) but I'd give the nodd to Malkin over the two of them...maybe even stahl as well.

Posted by: Super Joe Biden at February 14, 2010 02:03 PM (UNOPX)

103 You folks just hate bread and circuses! ...unless it's the kind of bread and circuses you like, of course.

Posted by: Warren Bonesteel at February 14, 2010 02:04 PM (oeESr)

104 or superjosakic...puppehtoffeh!

Posted by: garrett at February 14, 2010 02:08 PM (UNOPX)

105 102

You're right--last year PD played very well in the post season, and his skills are increasing--it will be awesome to see where his career takes him.  And I would not quibble that he's incredibly talented along with Ovie and Crosby.  All I'm saying is that the players that history shows as being truly great often have to have more than pure skills.  Stepping up in the playoffs is critical for a player to rise to the next level.

There are many players whose skills are dwarfed by the three guys mentioned above, but have made names for themselves as franchise players and hall of famers because of their ability to punch above their weight in spring. 

 

Posted by: Kevin Canuck at February 14, 2010 02:48 PM (eXcBd)

106 Well the "frenchman" won the gold medal which sort of means he didn't get it for the USA, where he was born?   That is just wrong.  But, I'm waiting for them to re run the end of the race and to hear the comments again, was working so maybe I heard wrong.  But, if I didn't that guy is just wrong.

Posted by: curious at February 14, 2010 02:51 PM (p302b)

107 tonight they are showing pairs figure skating and luge and speed skating for the women.  Geez they seem to really mess this up, my dad keeps saying he missing ABC and Jim McKay.

Posted by: curious at February 14, 2010 02:52 PM (p302b)

108 What was that race yesterday then?  Where Danica found herself all banged up and Dale's son had a major accident?

Posted by: curious at February 14, 2010 03:08 PM (p302b)

109 Offense sells tickets, defense wins championships.

Last year Sid became a good 2-way player and won a Cup.

Federov and Yzerman cut back on scoring, became 2-way players and won Cups.

Datsyuk and Zetterberg cut back on scoring, became 2-way players and won Cups.

You can bet that the Canadian wingers under Babcock will play defense.  The idea is to win, not set scoring records, and there is more than 1 way to "step up."

Posted by: Robert at February 14, 2010 03:11 PM (cd6Ip)

110 Toronto has a hockey team?

Posted by: andycanuck at February 14, 2010 03:18 PM (2qU2d)

111

BTW, "Da, da, Canada. Nyet, nyet, Sovyet!"

Posted by: andycanuck at February 14, 2010 03:19 PM (2qU2d)

112

Regular-season pizzazz means nothing if you can't deliver in April and May.

Ask the Senators.

Posted by: andycanuck at February 14, 2010 03:42 PM (2qU2d)

113 Gold: Canada, Silver: Russia, Bronze: Sweden.

That's how you do it, son.

Posted by: Wyatt Earp at February 14, 2010 04:13 PM (J40Mw)

114 If you have Dish Network, they recently added free channel NHLN 403   (also in HD).  VS is hardly showing anything any more, which is a shame because their announcers talk about the freaking game instead of who the goalies' brother in law is.  And the bit rate on the VS HD is much higher than NHLN.  Absolutely tack sharp.
I watched the Cap play the Canadiens last night and it was a great game.  The Caps were on a record-breaking 14 game winning streak and came out for blood, with Ovechkin foaming at the mouth.  The Canadiens pushed them back into the Caps defensive zone and kept them trapped there out of pure panic, and it worked.  They were up 5-2 at one point.  Even so, they barely won with a goal made in the final 7.5 seconds of overtime after Ovechkin came out for murder in the third period and evened up the game.  A helluva job and one of the best hockey games I've seen in ages.
I saw Crosby score his first NHL goal a few years back and you gotta love it.  The kid was floating on ice.
I watched women's hockey once.  It was like watching real hockey at 1/2 speed.  Snooze.

Posted by: Nemo from Erewhon at February 14, 2010 04:36 PM (57N+j)

115 O/T:  This is way off topic but wow, Wisconsin must not be happy with BO:
"“Impeach Obama” Billboard Spotted in Wisconsin (Video)"

Posted by: curious at February 14, 2010 04:48 PM (p302b)

116

Breaking News from Olympics--

Biden's Motorcade in Accident-- Peggy Fleming slightly injured

http://tinyurl.com/yg563kz

Posted by: Matt at February 14, 2010 04:56 PM (QBsVk)

117 If Al Michaels isn't calling every single one of these games, NBC truly does have its head up its own ass.

Posted by: INCITEmarsh at February 14, 2010 05:04 PM (FCn6Y)

118

Caps were on a record-breaking 14 game winning streak

Wasn't that a points streak?

I thought they lost a game in OT around 8-9 into that run...

Posted by: garrett at February 14, 2010 05:14 PM (UNOPX)

119 Wooooo HOooooo go Canada....you got your Gold!!!!  If the Americans couldn't get it, glad you did!!!!

Posted by: curious at February 14, 2010 05:44 PM (p302b)

120 Wow vanetta flowers and peggy fleming had to be taken to the hospital....they say they've been released but how many accidents has this guy had this year?

Posted by: curious at February 14, 2010 05:52 PM (p302b)

121 Thank you, curious.

Posted by: andycanuck at February 14, 2010 06:14 PM (2qU2d)

122

Hey! It's not my fault. They were all driving on the wrong side of the road. Maniacs. Lucky I knew it was left-hand drive there, just like for that Queen lady I met in England.

Posted by: Joe Biden at February 14, 2010 06:17 PM (2qU2d)

123 ITT: Hockey is spelled "Hocke."

Posted by: RJ at February 14, 2010 07:34 PM (ADbI4)

124 Hockey is for teh gehe who want to play the "man" part IYKWIMAITTYD.  We know why they like to have their front teeth knocked out, now, don't we?

Posted by: Adjoran at February 14, 2010 07:35 PM (HeULl)

125 Frozen ponds and oversized quonset huts. That is where I learned the game. In both Southern Alberta and Northern Montana. Blue, Blanc et Rouge, Eh!

Posted by: Glenn Mark Cassel AMH1(AW) USN Ret. at February 14, 2010 10:32 PM (KL4Fl)

126 You folks just hate bread and circuses!

We fear gluten, and clowns, but mostly clowns.

Posted by: toby928 at February 15, 2010 03:34 AM (PD1tk)

127 Malkin > Crosby. If you aren't the best player on your team, how can you be considered the best player in the sport? The answer is simple. Marketing. The NHL (a buisness) needs a Canadian superstar to sell it's product in the Hockey homeland.

Posted by: Undeniable fact at February 15, 2010 03:41 AM (wlE4Z)

128 If Al Michaels isn't calling every single one of these games, NBC truly does have its head up its own ass.

Mike Emrick is much better.  Hockey announcing sounds better when the guy has a Canadian accent.  That is unless he's Barry Melrose.  Something about that guy annoys me.

Posted by: Steve L. at February 15, 2010 04:03 AM (mIIVr)

129 2 Line pass offsides is no longer against the rules in the NHL

Posted by: Guy at February 15, 2010 06:26 AM (G+GPc)

Posted by: kobe shoes at August 09, 2010 04:04 AM (YtPVO)

134

Compression Tube Fitting is The TOP 1 Coach Bags store,you can buy Safe Solenoid Valve and Fiber Optic Terminal Box from us

Posted by: Led Display at October 06, 2010 01:14 AM (tpC/S)

135 Preparation Material provides you everything you will need to take a free exam papers examination. Like actual certification exams, our Practice Tests are in multiple-choice (MCQs) Our MCITP Certification Exam will provide you with exam questions with verified answers that reflect the Windows Vista exam exam. These questions and answers provide you with the experience of taking the actual test. High quality and Value for the 70-680 Exam Guarantee to Pass Your Tivoli Software exam and get your Tivoli Software Certification.

Posted by: william at December 02, 2010 04:37 PM (CXil7)

136 The 70-680 exam covers Microsoft exam, upgrading, and migrating Windows; deploying Windows; installing and troubleshooting drivers; troubleshooting compatibility problems with Designing exam applications; configuring network settings including the MCTS: Windows Vista Windows Firewall; managing disks; and recovering Windows in case of a failure or problem. While the free Microsoft questions is a comprehensive exam, it tends to give CompTIA a little bit more A+ Exams focus on newer technologies introduced or modified free CompTIA questions in Windows 7.

Posted by: qiao456 at December 07, 2010 10:02 PM (7Tmzw)

137

This NIKE Shoes  infrared appears basic enough, possessing a typically strong dark upper featuring a whitened midsole and some great red-colored accents.The aboriginal blush way to absolution is the discount NIKE Shoes .Most humans admired the red that was about the Air Bubble. Humans had their own reasons, but alone in a brace blush ways.TheCheap NIKE shoes was aboriginal appear in 1993, and is accepted for the 270 amount apparent Nike Air Unit, in added words the air balloon at the heel.

Posted by: tearsjoong at January 09, 2011 09:20 PM (bMjj/)

138 our factory produce chi flat iron,chi hair straightener and five finger shoes,5 finger shoes,the products in our factory we all sale it online in the website.

Posted by: chi hair straightener at May 13, 2011 12:35 AM (ewasL)

Hide Comments | Add Comment | Refresh | Top

Comments are disabled. Post is locked.
158kb generated in CPU 0.0608, elapsed 0.2517 seconds.
64 queries taking 0.2041 seconds, 266 records returned.
Powered by Minx 1.1.6c-pink.