1 I don't think there's any "borderline" to it.  These freaks are full on nutso.

2 OTOH, there's not much point in growing produce in CA if there's no oil to get it to Kristen Gillibrand's Inner City Supermarkets for people to walk by on the way to the frozen burrito section.  *srednop*

3 I should think, with all our technological know how, if we spent our energies wisely and creatively, we could find a solution that would save both the damn delta smelt and conserve the farms.  But of course THAT solution would be way too easy and pragmatic! (it would also involve trying to find a good and pragmatic compromise -- government doesn't roll that way)

4 Delta smelt can't be transplanted anywhere else to ensure the survival of the species?

5 This one sends me directly over the edge.  I would love to see these  people take these pumping stations by force and turn them on. 

6 Both concrete government programs and abstract government programs are evil.  Government is evil, every time, all the time.

7 A Miracle Solution where you don't have to choose between goods, each with its own negatives?!?! Sign me up! I am incredibly suspicious at any argument that starts out by basically postulating that at some future point we can manufacture Magic Beans. Okay, let me assume, along with you, that with our "technological know-how" at some unknown future point we can avoid this choice through a tech solution. What do we do RIGHT NOW in the present moment where there are no Magic beans available?

8 All us ex-green jobs czars know that farmers have been farming the wrong way and killing minorities for years.  All that feeding the world is just an excuse for racism.

9 4  Just like the delta smelt, if given at least a remotely viable alternative, can't learn to freaking adapt.  Adaptation...it's this wonderful evolutionary process...which doesn't seem to be an option to econuts.  The delta smelt are smarter than they are most likely.

10 Mmm... Delta Smelt

11 You can murder an awful lot of people when you're religiously-convinced you're doing God's work.

50 million American babies and counting, and God alone knows how many more in the rest of the world.  And that's not even getting started on the victims of criminals who would have been dealt with by courts with an interest in justice or even an adequately armed populace.  Or the Rwandans they ignored.  Et f'n cetera.

12

I cannot haz horribly depressing Steinbeck novel as life story??

13 Even if I assume with unknown jane that sometime down the road our "technological know-how" will let us have both Good Things simultaneously, that doesn't provide any guidance as to what to do *right now,* before this technology exists, and this sort of thinking is usually used to justify some bad current policy (let's let the farmers die off while we research this new pumping tech). Why should farmers' lose their crops while we're working on this? Your idea seems simply to avoid making a tough choice given current, real conditions, in which this new tech doesn't yet exist.

14 7 I wasn't arguing for a "miracle solution", but I'm sure we can find a better alternative that would at least keep everyone somewhat happy (not completely happy, but at least find some compromise) -- that way progress can go forward; farms can be saved and the environmentalists can be assuaged enough to shut up.

15 If it was Napa Valley that had gotten cut off they would have changed their minds pretty quickly about the importance of the delta smelt.

16 In this enviro-nut gov't mandated hierarchy, humans rank at the bottom.  'cause we make Gaia weep.

17 Smeltist!

18 It started with a 2008 federal court order that stopped water flowing from northern tributaries on a supposed need to protect a small fish — the delta smelt — that was getting ground up in the turbines of pump stations that divert the water south.

So after all the years the water was flowing there were still delta smelt.  _{^{*shakes head*}}

19 You've got to be borderline crazy to do this.

Quote of the Day from one of my commie co-workers:

Filly:  So you're from San Francisco?  Are you in Nancy Pelosi's district?

CCW:  Ummmmmm.... I'm not surrrrrrre.  I don't really know who's district I'm in.

Filly:  ...?

CCW:  But I hope I am, because she is really cool!

20

Mmm... Farmers

21 >>>I wasn't arguing for a "miracle solution", but I'm sure we can find a better alternative that would at least keep everyone somewhat happy (not completely happy, but at least find some compromise) -- I'm not so sure of that, and even though there is a chance of that, there still is the problem of what to do *now*, before we escape having to make the choice. I'm pretty sure (well, like 55%) that in 30 years we'll have fusion power, which is a miracle solution. But we don't have it now, so what do we do until then? Same thing with the "Smart Pumps" you're postulating. It's certainly possible we can create those at some point, but okay, that's postulating a future possibility. What about right now?

22

 

They're not killing the economy. Look at the books. All good.

Everything is just great.

23 By choice, we don't extract oil in our lands (shale) or off our waters (offshore) because it's "bad". We don't develop nuclear energy or explore our own natural gas resources for the same reason. We don't use all the weaponry available to us to end wars quickly because it might look bad on alCNN. Killing mas murders is bad (the Death Penalty will be all but abolished before Obambi is done), but abortion is A-OK. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xu-nhba0Bck

24 Hmmm... I should have used the Delta Smelt argument when cutting off the marsh lands from the Madan.

Good times.

25 ace, I think unknown jane only meant that someone should have asked the question of whether both needs could be met before making a choice in the matter whereas the libs don't even care because their damn fish or so important to them the other half of the question is to them irrelevent.

Also, I'm confused.  The smelt issue was what had Hannity doing his show in CA a couple of times last year.  I was under the impression the water had been turned on as one of the last deals in getting votes for Obamacare.

26 You can murder an awful lot of people when you're religiously-convinced you're doing God's Gaia's work.

FIFY

27

 I was under the impression the water had been turned on as one of the last deals in getting votes for Obamacare

And people wonder why I get paid the big bux!

28 Where's Impale Stool when you need him?

29 The idiot fucking Dems would protect a sworm of flies around a hot steaming pile of shit before they would lift a hand to save jobs or humans.  It must really be awful to be suffering from a complete lack of God Damn Common Sense.

30 At some point you'd think that the testimony of their own eyes -- seeing people suffer and die in the real world -- would shake them out of their unshakable belief in the abstract "Good" they're pushing for, but you'd be wrong.

The way the liberal mental process works is generally like this;

1) Propose some insane idea and force it on the populace.

2) See that the problem they claimed would be resolved has not been, and is now probably worse.

3) Decide that it is because the initial proposal was not draconian enough.

4) Remove the "loopholes" in the original policy

Wash, rinse repeat.

31

 I was under the impression the water had been turned on as one of the last deals in getting votes for Obamacare.

I think those where just "allocations" and then they where quickly turned off again.  

32 25 Hmmm... I should have used the Delta Smelt argument when cutting off the marsh lands from the Madan.

Good times.

Posted by: Zombie Saddam Hussein at April 30, 2010 03:18 PM (pUfK9)

We would have given you a grant

33 Dustbowl 2010: The Dustening.

34 Following-up on my previous... This is what fat, lazy, hedonistic societies do to themselves. Navel-gazing, self-absorbed, what time is Idol on tonight? You can bet that once the food starts going scarce around here it's going to be "FUCK the Delta Smelt" or "Spotted Owl" or "fill-in-the-blank endangered animal standing between me and a bushel of corn" with all deliberate speed - problem is it will probably be too late to do anything about it. Which is a win-win for the Gaia worshipers as it means more dead ape descendants.

35   I was under the impression the water had been turned on as one of the last deals in getting votes for Obamacare.

Yeah, I see how it is around here.

36 Smelt yakitori is quite nice too.

37 Personally, I've never met a Delta Smelt I didn't like.  Down to the last gill, they are all money-grubbing opportunists who are constantly scheming up ways to steal from the rest of us and take over the world.  They spread lice and disease. They threaten racial purity by breeding with our native crappie and large-mouth bass.  They are ugly and even less fashionable than the Scandis.

I say there's only one ULTIMATE SOLUTION to the problem of the Delta Smelt...(IYKWIMAITYD)

38
1. Delta Smelt
2. ?????????
3. Utopia

39 Heh.... wait til I go supernova in 5 billion years.


Save the planet..... Muhahahahahaha

40 Lots of illegal immigrants used to work in those fields.  The Obama policy is racist.

41

3) Decide that it is because the initial proposal was not draconian enough.

3A)  Blame evil Republicans for not letting you go as far you you really needed to go to solve the problem the first time

42

Delta smelt can't be transplanted anywhere else to ensure the survival of the species?

Like, Ceti Alpha V ?

43 If you want the water turned back on, you need to frame the issue better.  Something along the lines of the children of undocumented workers are hardest hit by an uncaring program left over from the Bush years.

44 Why should farmers' lose their crops while we're working on this?

Your idea seems simply to avoid making a tough choice given current, real conditions, in which this new tech doesn't yet exist.

Posted by: ace at April 30, 2010 03:12 PM (i6ROy)

Actually that is another problem with liberalism.

Why aren't the liberals trying to win the hearts and minds of the farmers in question, or even buying them out, instead of using the raw power of government to destroy them? 

As liberalism continues to accept the use of force on every part of their agenda, they are directly reducing the amount of freedom we have as Americans.

45

And on the subject of Califarkingornia, Swartzeneger and Crist really are twins!

http://tinyurl.com/37psdjy

HotAir

46 You can murder an awful lot of people when you're religiously-convinced you're doing God's work.

Tell me about it, inshallah.

47 So this militant Taliban gets lost and is wandering in the desert looking for water. He finally arrives at a store run by a delta smelt and asks for water. The delta smelt tells him he doesn't have any water, but he can sell him a tie ...

48 You can bet that once the food starts going scarce around here it's going to be "FUCK COOK the Delta Smelt" or "Spotted Owl"

49 Like, Ceti Alpha V ? No, Seetee Alpha Seeks.

50 He who smelt it, delt(a) it.

That's all I've got. Your turn.

51

So this militant Taliban gets lost and is wandering in the desert looking for water. He finally arrives at a store run by a delta smelt and asks for water. The delta smelt tells him he doesn't have any water, but he can sell him a tie ...

True story?

52 47 You can murder an awful lot of people when you're religiously-convinced you're doing God's work.

Tell me about it, inshallah.

Posted by: Mohammed Atta at April 30, 2010 03:27 PM (xzSvW)

53
Why aren't the liberals trying to win the hearts and minds of the farmers in question, or even buying them out, instead of using the raw power of government to destroy them?

Examples must be made. 

Run off a few farmers.... then the real prizes like energy, health care, finance, manufacturing, transportation fall into line a little easier.

54 If you want the water turned back on, you need to frame the issue better.  Something along the lines of the children of undocumented workers are hardest hit by an uncaring program left over from the Bush years.

Posted by: WalrusRex at April 30, 2010 03:27 PM (xxgag)

What about a little civil disobedience? I'm not sure of how easy this would be to do, but physically go turn the water back on. Sure, the government will arrest you and turn the water off...but it would make for great theater that even the State Media would be hard pressed to ignore. 

Or figure out who the decision makers are in the area, and have every local businessman refuse to sell them anything.

55

 

speaking of the environment..the sidebar story about Harrison Ford is interesting.

Ford said, "To each to his own necessity." when asked about conservation. So either he's saying don't waste, or he's saying it's okay for him to have a bigger 'carbon footprint' than others simply because he's a celebrity.

56

I can't believe that they are not at least pandering to these people to hold onto there votes.  That's going to be a lot of Hispanic votes leaning Republican in November. 

I can hear it now "Gee the water was flowing pretty damn good when Bush was here".

57 If you can't eat it, fuck it or wear it, why would you want to save it?

58

The little fucktard who hacked into Palin's email was convicted on two counts; one for the hack job itself, (which is just a misdemeanor????) and the other for obstruction of justice

...sorry for all the legalese

With his girly features, he's going to be really popular in the pen

59

O/T cuz it frickin FRiday!

Topless women go bonkers over inequality in Maine Published: 4/30/10, 3:05 PM EDT
By GLENN ADAMS

FARMINGTON, Maine (AP) - A forecast of sunny skies in April seems like the perfect time to put the top down. But a drive in an open-air convertible isn't what some women had in mind.

Nearly two dozen women marched topless through this college town Friday to protest a double-standard that allows men to take off their shirts on a hot summer day. Many men joined the women, taking off their shirts and marching side by side with them. Joining the scrum were gawkers snapping photos.

It's already legal under state law for women to go topless in public in Maine. But the protesters in Farmington want it to become socially acceptable, too.

60 If you can't eat it, fuck it or wear it, why would you want to save it?

We're not even cute.

61

75% of the fresh water that has historically irrigated California is now being washed to the open sea

..buncha fucking idiots...seriously

62 The last time this came up a poster from CA said it had nothing to do with fish and he actually AGREED with the water dump.  I cannot remember why.  Maybe he, or someone from Northern CA, can explain.

63 I bet those ground up smelt helped the plants grow better.

64 While I pity the farmers, they've voted consistently for Democrats over the years.
As you sow, so shall you reap.

65

..buncha fucking idiots...seriously

Posted by: beedubya at April 30, 2010 03:32 PM (AnTyA)

I don't give them the benefit of the doubt.  They're doing it on purpose. 

66

 Delta Smelt...Excellent on a toasted portuguese roll w/tar-tar and mesculine lettuce.

  

67

 or he's saying it's okay for him to have a bigger 'carbon footprint' than others simply because he's a celebrity.

Posted by: Lippy the Lion at April 30, 2010 03:30 PM (uFokq)

Makes sense to us. But you made one mistake "because he's a liberal celebrity".

Thanks.

68 While I pity the farmers, they've voted consistently for Democrats over the years.
As you sow, so shall you reap.

Posted by: GarandFan at April 30, 2010 03:33 PM (6mwMs)

Uh, I like to eat, though.

69 Forget it, Jake. It's Chinatown.

70
Don't these people realize they are killing trees? I suppose it is OK to kill cash crop trees.

71 We just need to think things through a bit more before acting.
We just need to think things through a bit more before acting.
We just need to think things through a bit more before acting.
Years later...
We just need to think things through a bit more before acting.

72 The otters I know prefer almonds as a snack. Someone file an injunction!

73 Teapartier:  They shut my water off. What's it to you?

Nancy Pelosi:  How'd you find out about it? You don't drink it; you don't take a bath in it... They wrote you a letter. But then you have to be able to read.

74

...sorry for all the legalese

Posted by: beedubya

Oooh, my think meat is hurty! You mean, mean man. Uncle Ace, make him stop!

75 "Turn the water on" 'Scuse me, but water doesn't "turn on" in a state of nature. It only turns on when the government pays big bucks for dams and irrigation canals so that folks can grow almond trees in the desert. Now, you can argue that the government is breaking a contract it made with these folks when it made desert farming possible. I'd accept that argument. But outside that implicit contract, gov't doesn't owe these farmers shit.

76 The "Delta Smelt" sounds like a great name for an ore refinery.

77

It's already legal under state law for women to go topless in public in Maine. But the protesters in Farmington want it to become socially acceptable, too.

Posted by: dananjcon who has A.D.D. on friday at April 30, 2010 03:32 PM (pr+up)

If you're talking 8s and above, I'm all for it.

78 The larger question in regards to endangered species is whether we should be saving them in the first place. Especially since extinction is a necessary component of Evolution. Last time I checked, there weren't any large dinosaurs or Cro-Magnons living on my block.

79 "The Delta Smelt" sounds like a great name for a band.

80 Saving the delta smelt is easy:   just create a fish hatchery or two.  That's what they do for trout.   It's easy and not expensive.  Really simple.

81 You've got to be borderline crazy to do this. Seriously. I'm sure Lee Harvey Oswald had some belief he was quite sure of -- Kill Kennedy and the World Becomes A Wonderful Place -- and you have to be pretty insane to be sure enough of that proposition to kill someone you've never met and have no actual quarrel with.

For further reference see Booth, John Wilkes vs. Lincoln Abraham.

82 The history of water wars in California is interesting. Anyone advocating that the water be turned off like this 100yrs ago would have been shot.

83

And on the subject of Califarkingornia, Swartzeneger and Crist really are twins!

http://tinyurl.com/37psdjy

HotAir

On the day he was elected during the recall, I looked at the people on the stage with him and noted:

"Too many Kennedys."

84 Magic beans indeed. 

1)  Absurd CAFE standards dictated by technologically ignorant politicians
2)  ????????
3)  500 mpg

85 63 The last time this came up a poster from CA said it had nothing to do with fish and he actually AGREED with the water dump.  I cannot remember why.  Maybe he, or someone from Northern CA, can explain.

Posted by: anon at April 30, 2010 03:32 PM (j/wD+)

The water pumps are government funded and he didn't think tax dollars should go to private farmers to turn the desert into arable land.  Or something like that.

86

This is such a crime, and people should go to jail for it.  The rightful owners of this land will be displaced by future owners who will pick the land up for a song and then the law will be changed.

This is theft pure and simple.

87

Excuse me waiter..I'll have the milk fed veal, the poached delta smelt & a side of crude-soaked baby seal.  Oh and don't forget the deep fried Pelican wings as an appetizer.

Thanks!

 

88 There's another lesson to be learned here.  Since the 30's dustbowl the government has been pushing the taxpayers dollars onto the farming community like it was, well, water.  My stepfather was a dirt farmer and when anyone started mentioning taking away a subsidy here or a subsidy there or a low interest government loan, his indignation would blow sky high.  The American farmer has been one of the highest paid welfare recipients in history.  I guess what they're learning here is that what the government giveth, the government can taketh away.

89

Even if everyone in the state woke up tomorrow and said 'fsck the Delta Smelt', this is still the result of a court order from a Federal judge (appointed by George HW Bush).

Short of running this one all the way to the Supreme Court, and winning, what's to be done?

90 I'm smelting, SMELTING!!

91 Fish. Otters. Must brainstorm solution....

92 "Delta Smelt" - wasn't she that thick southern woman who starred on a comedy series with a bunch of other women?

93

You know San Francisco is killing more smelt than the turbines by dumping its sewage in the rivers?  Thats right, SanFran thinks its shit doesn't stink.  Literally or figuratively.

I know a lot of people here don't like Hannity, but he has done some good reports on this.

94

This sounds like a plotline to an A-Team episode.  Local corrupt politicians are squeezing hard-working salt of the earth types by turning off water to their crops.  The farmers, almost bankrupt, call in the A-Team.  They then go directly to the pumps and turn them on.  Everything is idyllic for a short time, when the local curruptocrats hit back hard.  A small child is mildly injured, and some old equipment is blown up.  That's when the A-Team goes full-on A-Team. 

Cue music and then a head-on crazy run at the currupt pols places of business.  Firefight, explosions, ducking and running.  Goons scatter.  Hannibal walks in on the cringing head pol, chomps cigar, voices witticism.  Pol promises not to be naughty, knowing the A-team will whup on them if they act up.

-Fin-

Yay!

 

95 So somehow the prospect of paying more for lettuce is so horrible we have to prevent it, even if that means amnestying a bunch of criminals...but the prospect of paying more for almonds isn't worth thinking about? (My sister mentioned the other day, apropos of nothing, that Trader Joe's almonds were noticeably better than the other stores', but that she stopped buying them there because they'd recently gotten so much more expensive. Wonder what their source is?)

96 You know, Ace, the Abstracts and Concretes you mention here are very much like Bill Whittle's description of the Pinks and Grays he mentioned in his essay,"Tribes."

I imagine a lot of folks here have read it. If you haven't... you really should.

97 Last time I checked, there weren't any large dinosaurs or Cro-Magnons living on my block.

Posted by: IllTemperedCur at April 30, 2010 03:39 PM (ZSVyF)

Eh...you should visit my neighborhood.

 

98 In the morning I pack up my gear
And toss it in my carryall
Run the wide load to the lip
And watch the big core crack and glow

In the evening I undo my belt
Split open and smelt

I wake up on my stomach
With my face between my hands
And crawl along the floor toward the doorway
Jumping to my feet
I try to put myself together
But I feel it in my knees
And the room begins to spin
And I slip and bump my head and raise a welt
Split open and smelt

We breathe deep
In a steam dream
And plunge below the water line
Down, down, down
Between beams
To the gloom room
Among the seaweed and the slime
Down, down, down
Smelt

99 All we need to do is build a desalinization plant on the coast, and pump fresh water to the formerly desert, now farm land.  along with the removal of salt from the seawater we would remove all the Gold in the seawater, and the plant will pay for itself...plus create lots of new jobs.  Magic Beans indeed.  Please send start-up capital to me, and I'll right on it.

100

Whoever smelt it, delt it.

Delta smelt are farting fish, as every schoolkid knows.  Who needs them?  Farts cause global warming.

101 The only explanation is that they are trying to fuck things up (just like Stalin).  The obvious destruction of production gives them away. It is impossible to be this stupid, "environmentalist" or not.

102 Didn't the Abstracts and Concretes rumble in the Broadway Play "West Side Story?" 

103

I was under the impression the water had been turned on as one of the last deals in getting votes for Obamacare.

It was turned on in 2 districts only, as part of the zerocare payoffs.  Hannity had reported that the feds have acknowledged that the water did not need to be cut off.  The valley farmers had improved efficiency and that the savings there were enough to accomdate agriculture needs and the guppies.  After hearing this, I am onboard the conspiracy theory that the feds are creating this dustbowl on purpose.

104 Please. Screw the delta smelt. Species have become extinct throughout history. Get over it.

105 I think you should know that Obama inherited the smelt from the Bush administration. DAAMYNOYOUBUSH!!!

106

26  That's exactly what I meant.  Thank you.

107 You know who benefits from the water being turned off?

108 If you know what's good for you, you won't disturb my Smeltanschauung.

109

While I pity the farmers, they've voted consistently for Democrats over the years.

Nope, sorry. Get outside of the coastal cities and its pretty damn conservative.

110

This whole story should be filed under "Government Giveth, Government taketh away"

Government has replaced the church-it provides welfare for the needy.

Government now is replacing God- it will determine who gets water, who's crops lives, who's crops fail.

That is what it means to be a Liberal. You worship Government in its unyeilding power.

111 60
...
It's already legal under state law for women to go topless in public in Maine. But the protesters in Farmington want it to become socially acceptable, too.
...

Moobs, however, are still illegal to bare.
-
Counter protesters showed up with "no fat chicks" signs.
-
Other counter protestors showed up wearing cloth sacks head to toe.
-
I think there is a substantial portion of society that has no problem at all with seeing bare titties. On the right woman of course.
-
Still, if it's legal and you want to take your top off, then do so accepting the fact that some people won't like it. I'm a guy and yea, it's more socially acceptable for dudes to go around without shirts, but I'm pretty sure most people don't want to see my pasty white, skinny, hairy chest any more than they want to see a pair of nasty tits.

112

While I pity the farmers, they've voted consistently for Democrats over the years.

Nope, sorry. Get outside of the coastal cities and its pretty damn conservative.

Huh?  Tom Harkin. Iowa GOP won't even run a serious challenger because he brings home so much ag pork.

113 93 "Delta Smelt" - wasn't she that thick southern woman who starred on a comedy series with a bunch of other women?

Posted by: conscious and singing my favorite song "Smelt Across the Water" by Deep Purple at April 30, 2010 03:44 PM (YVZlY)

I used to call her Delta 88.  I'm sure she was tons of fun in the back seat of your everday land yacht.

 

114

Ace, that was a great post.  Wouldn't it be great if we could teach that in our schools?

Anyway, as I'm on a flex schedule, this is my off Friday and I have to get back to my Value Rite.

Question: Why do I buy really expensive, high end lemonade to put in my Value Rite?

Answer: Because I'm a moron.

115

65 While I pity the farmers, they've voted consistently for Democrats over the years.
As you sow, so shall you reap.

 

Broad Brush Alert:

Do yourself a favor and go look at one of those handy little county by county Red/Blue maps that get themselves published in mid November of every 4th year. You'll notice that most of the rural areas are red as shit. For instance, take a look at the Texas Panahandle. Which coincidentally is starting to fill up at an alarming rate with California based dairy farmers who are desperate to get away from the enviornmental wackos  in their state. There are few redder places in the nation than the farming counties of western TX and Oklahoma. My daddy, who farmed for 40 years in the panhandle, would whup an ol' boys ass for assuming that just because he farmed for a living that he voted for the party most likely to give him a handout.

116 All we need to do is build a desalinization plant on the coast, and pump fresh water to the formerly desert, now farm land. along with the removal of salt from the seawater we would remove all the Gold in the seawater, and the plant will pay for itself...plus create lots of new jobs. Magic Beans indeed. Please send start-up capital to me, and I'll right on it.

Uh... we've uh... reviewed your application for building permits and re-zoning, environmental impact studies, affadavits of intent, etc. You uh... we're going to have to file this next to our uh... investigative ... uh ... yeah it's ... might not happen this century.

117 Looks like others beat me to the punch as usual.

118 Oooh that smelt, can't you smelt that smelt? 

119 Seems to me that there's got to be legal recourse for these farmers. I mean, the government actively shut off their water supply and refuses to allow them more. Effectively, the government is terminating a necessary material that directly affects their livelihoods. I'm certainly not a lawyer or anything of that species, but it just boggles my mind that no one has been able to file a suit claiming grievances against the government for this kind of thing. Maybe I'm wrong? Either way, it makes me sick that our own representatives are allowed to do this to us, and the kicker is that we let them.

120 Smelt like teen spirit.

121 80% of the world's almonds are grown in the CA central valley - most of those trees are dried husks now. With high unemployment, food producing farms in ruin - at what point does a populace break and determine theri own future?

122 at what point does a populace break and determine theri own future?

Posted by: marianne at April 30, 2010 04:04 PM (jSigh)

What point indeed?

123

If it smelt like cologn...leave it alone.

 

124

Either way, it makes me sick that our own representatives are allowed to do this to us, and the kicker is that we let them.

 

It's just Dear Leader's regime telling us that we're all equally fucked.

125

I'm not sure it's even a matter of abstract vs concrete thinking.  I view it more as a battle between idealism and realism.  Maybe that's a distinction without a difference. 

To me, it's not money but idealism that is the root of all evil- be it the "ideals" of a thousand year reich, Communist utopia, worldwide caliphate, etc.  The idealist doesn't really consider the cost or consequence to acheiving their ideals, and as a result can excuse some very harmful actions so long as they're percieved as moving closer to their goal.

Ideally, human activity would never contribute to species extinction, no one would be poor, fat, uneducated.  Countries would never go to war, nor would anyone die in a DWI accident.  Racism and sexism wouldn't exist.  Etc, etc, etc.  The problem is that no amount of government intervention can bring about such ideals, or could only do so by drastic, unpalatable measures.

126 I'll stop the world and smelt with you.

127

Gah. This is one of the few cases where (some) enviromentalists are correct. The water-grab by Southern California over the last 30 years is on the brink of destroying the delta ecosystem. I'm a fisherman, and I don't have the time or the will to explain why the Delta Smelt is so important to other species, and to the multi million dollar recreational fishing industry. I'm conservative and a native Northern Californian. Life long outdoors person, and expect my children to have the same opportunities. i'm not out to save fish because I think they are on par with human life - I want to have the opportunity to kill selected ones myself, and preserve the natural resouces that my familes tax dollars have gone to support. I can opine on two things the:

1 - Ed Morrisey is an idiot. (and looks like Vader with his helmet off) He will post anything that is anti-liberal, without giving it a second thought or research. That is where I keep seeing this issue brought up in the dextrosphere.

2 - Southern Californians have been after our water for 40 years, and this makes a nice wedge-issue to accomplish that goal. This is not about a "dust bowl", it's about limited resouces and the simple fact that SoCal can't be allowed bleed us dry, like they have tried with every other source of water for the last century. I support farming, but if you look into the issues (do some searching about Kesterson and the Westlands water district if you want to have some actual information) you will see it's much more than a snarky comment about Delta Smelt. I expected more thought from you, Ace.

128 Ed Morrisey is an idiot. (and looks like Vader with his helmet off) He will post anything that is anti-liberal, without giving it a second thought or research.

Yeah he's an idiot.  But he's kind of a squish.  Non-partisan, above-the-fray, reasonable moderate.  He irritates the shit out of me.

129

Still, as wonderful as the delta smelt is -- I hear they are hard-working and have strong families -- I sort of think that human beings are more important.

Yeah, even George Carlin did a bit about how extinction is a normal part of life on this planet.  He gets pissed about how self-important we are.

130 #100, Three words: California Coastal Commission.

131

I love the smelt of maypalm in the mornin.

 

132 100 All we need to do is build a desalinization plant on the coast, and pump fresh water to the formerly desert, now farm land.  along with the removal of salt from the seawater we would remove all the Gold in the seawater, and the plant will pay for itself...plus create lots of new jobs.  Magic Beans indeed.  Please send start-up capital to me, and I'll right on it.

----
Extreme greenie types have said decades ago that cheap clean energy would be a disaster for the planet.
I imagine what could be done with very cheap energy. Consider wide canals cut into the continents to feed water desalinization plants. Or put the plants on the coast, as you say. Where there is not mountain or city or frost, the rest of the continent would be lush green with agriculture, able to support yet more and more population growth. If this was done worldwide I could see the planet easily supporting 15 billion people.
Jumans are at the top of the food chain (or web or net if you prefer), and they are the greatest masters of their environment compared to any other animal.

You can see why the more extreme greenies don't like the idea.

133 So sport fishing or $4.00 a head lettuce?

134

You smell your palm after?

.

.

Interesting.

135 Oh, great! Now I'll never get that smell out of the delta smelt!

136

113 Huh?

I'm talking about California.  Look at those colored voting maps.  The vast majority of the state is red.

137

@129

THERE is the guy that I was talking about!

 

138 14 7 I wasn't arguing for a "miracle solution", but I'm sure we can find a better alternative that would at least keep everyone somewhat happy (not completely happy, but at least find some compromise) -- that way progress can go forward; farms can be saved and the environmentalists can be assuaged enough to shut up.

Posted by: unknown jane at April 30, 2010 03:14 PM (5/yRG)

Jane, I live North of where this is happening; you don't know these fuckers - there's nothing more unbending than a Goddamned California environmentalist.

139 129: The conventional definition of Southern California is the land south of the Tehachapis. Which means south of Bakersfield. That's here the split would be if the state was split in two. And what do LA and Orange county water demands have to do with Central Valley farmers anyhow? So. Cal. has been taking unused parts of Arizona's Colorado River allocation for years. Up to a third of the allocation in some cases. Recently, Arizona has been using its full allocation. Perhaps that is one reason So. Cal. has water issues. But that has nothing to do with the Central Valley farmers.

140 See the Soviet Union and the Ukraine farmers for details.

Stalin had a name for Obaam voters ... useful idiots. It's as applicable today as it was then. All the two-bit tin pots running states with the votes of poor, function the same way ... fooling the useful idiots with promises of free stuff.

141 While the Leftists insist that we all eat "healthy" fruits and vegetables, yet they destroy the farms that produce the majority of those foods.

142 You can bet that once the food starts going scarce around here it's going to be "FUCK the Delta Smelt" or "Spotted Owl" or "fill-in-the-blank endangered animal standing between me and a bushel of corn" with all deliberate speed - problem is it will probably be too late to do anything about it.

Which is a win-win for the Gaia worshipers as it means more dead ape descendants.

Posted by: DocJ at April 30, 2010 03:24 PM (dt6br)

I gotta go make a "I fucked the smelt before it was cool to do so" T shirt.

143 I've always hated it when people claim to be "doing God's work."  First, it's self-referential--it says more about the way they view themselves than it does about the way they see God.  Second, if they really believed, they'd know God doesn't need any help.  Third, it always comes out of the mouths of douchebags.

144 While the Leftists insist that we all eat "healthy" fruits and vegetables, yet they destroy the farms that produce the majority of those foods.
That's because they want 'fair trade' foreign produce to be bought except for those pushing the 'eat local' crap.

145 sTevo wrut at 71,

Don't these people realize they are killing trees?

Hey, that's a feature for the local envirofascists, not a bug. Non-native plants are evil invaders that must be destroyed.

The bottom line is: never try to win an argument with a liberal with logic. Use photon torpedoes instead.

146 We can choose between protecting a pretty minor fish, or allowing farmers to actually live, and not see their farms destroyed in a government-mandated dustbowl. Reminds me of the bit in Atlas Shrugged (towards the end) where the VIPs wife got trains diverted to move the flowers she wanted moved. Too bad for the midwest farmers who had no way to move their just harvested wheat...

147

These fish could be bred in a fishery until the drought is over.  But I suppose that would make Gaia cry.

There's a lot of question about whether Delta Smelt are any different from the Freshwater Smelt that number in the millions off the coast of California.  They can cross-breed.  It's not a separate species.  The main difference seems to be this:  The Delta Smelt like hanging out in the Delta.

...and there's quite a few folk who maintain that the Delta Smelt population is much larger than some lazy, incompetent and ideologically-driven government wildlife experts have estimated.  But that's only because these folk can count.

This kind of inhuman (literally) cruelty fills me with rage.  All kidding aside.

148

How to destroy the United States of America:

Elect a charlatan with no documentable history who can hypnotize the masses with vague rhetoric and empty promises – check

Destroy wealth and move to control corporate and individual income – check

Takeover healthcare as a means of controling the population and eliminating undesirables – check

Control the water and food supply to keep the masses at your mercy: weak, hungry and desperate – check

Nationalize the energy industry by any means necessary (false flag or happy accident). Send in SWAT teams instead of environmental problem solvers. Control the ability of citizens to move via price inflation or product rationing – check

Yeah, IÂ’d say we are on our way to a third world totalitarian regime.

–

misty

149 87

This is such a crime, and people should go to jail for it.  The rightful owners of this land will be displaced by future owners who will pick the land up for a song and then the law will be changed.

This is theft pure and simple.

It's just business, no need to get huffed about it.

 

150

#129: a bunch of garbage!  Typical left media spin they try to put in our central cal papers often.  They can't explain away how magically we were "allocalted" water after the healthcare vote (that would be the equivalent of spitting in the lake).

Make no mistake... this is a Congress Created Dustbowl.  Some towns near us have 50%+ unemployment due to this... it's disgusting.  I live in District 20, who elected a "Blue Dog Lapdog".  This area is gernerally conservative, but a lot of farmers got sucked into the slick talking Costa (one of us, yeah right).  He's outta here on a rail!

This is to divert water to Freaky Frisco, period!  Good thing is there are a lot of hispanics who are finally seeing that liberals suck!

151 sure makes sense to me to grow rice in a desert

152 and how are those salmon doing ?

153 #129 please mr fisherman- give me a f'ing break. If you are from no cal, you know as well as I do that a there is plenty of water in Cali for us all, but the Sierra club and the nimby's refuse to allow any new water storage to be built. And needing water to GROW FOOD may be a teensy bit more important than your hobby. There hasn't been a worthwhile fishing industry here in years (also thanks in part to the enviro weenies). And even if there is a chance that "saving the smelt " would bring back the salmon, is it really necessary to destroy the whole valley to do it? Guess what, valley farmers are REPUBLICANS. Hmmm maybe that's part of the problem. And just in case you don't understand me, a region doesn't get 25+% unemployment because a few farmers "aren't owed anything by the government", it causes a ripple.... Like electricians aren't hired to build the plant to process the tomatoes, the truckers have nothing to haul, we have no $ to spend which effects everyone else. But you are right about one thing - it is not about the fish - it's about power and control.

154 Math sez - what kind of dumb fuck are you? We grow citrus, almonds, grapes.... you know things suited to the Mediterranean climate we have here.

155 "It's pretty hard to keep crops alive at 10%," says Jim Jasper, who runs a 62-year-old almond farm in Newman that employs 170.

Wanna get that water spigot turned back on? Just scream out loud that a whole bunch of illegal immigrants are being put out of work by the cutoff of the water flow.

156 IP = 116.21.19.24

157 They're just dirty, low-education farmers anyway. like Victor Davis Hanson...

158 oh, and there are no smelt in the pumps -- they're "endangered" cuz the sport fish [planted] are eating their foods... Waay up-stream. @45 Cuz you can "buy them out" much cheaper when they're already broke/broken. pssst: l a n d g r a b. shhhhhhh...

159 While I pity the farmers, they've voted consistently for Democrats over the years. As you sow, so shall you reap. Posted by: GarandFan at April 30, 2010 03:33 PM (6mwMs) uh, not so much. Check the Red/Blue by county and you'll see, geographically, that CA is Red. But trying to find a Conservative willing to wade into that cess pool that is Sacramento is like unto finding a virgin goat at an al! training camp.

160 *cough*alQ training camp*cough*

161 #129: "I'm conservative and a native Northern Californian." "Ed Morrisey is an idiot. (and looks like Vader with his helmet off)" "I expected more thought from you, Ace." Sure you're conservative. That's a load of fake leftist talking points. The San Joaquin Valley is not So Cal for starters. It's central California. And yes, enviros hate farming. They have some sort of North Korean peasant/hunter-gatherer future in mind for us.

162 #155 Correct, Valley Girl: Enviros hate fishing or even the shallowest of human impact on the "natural" world... as if we were not part of nature.

163 #152: This is to divert water to Freaky Frisco, period! Good thing is there are a lot of hispanics who are finally seeing that liberals suck! Posted by: katinca at April 30, 2010 10:34 PM (bNP37) True that. Frisco has no ?right" to any water that doesn't fall on their city. Why does Frisco have more right to water from the Sierras than Central California? I say let the people of the Sierras vote on who they'd prefer to allocate their water to! Given that they hate the crazies in Frisco, we know how that vote would go!

164 Ace, this analysis you wrote is masterful. I'll hold onto it.

165 76 "Turn the water on" 'Scuse me, but water doesn't "turn on" in a state of nature. It only turns on when the government pays big bucks for dams and irrigation canals so that folks can grow almond trees in the desert. Now, you can argue that the government is breaking a contract it made with these folks when it made desert farming possible. I'd accept that argument. But outside that implicit contract, gov't doesn't owe these farmers shit. Posted by: Jeffrey Quick at April 30, 2010 03:38 PM (g9neE) The government also prevents desalination plants. Read about the Coastal Commission. Government at least owes getting out of these people's way so that they can grow us some food. Ya know, I've always heard libtards are very tender, maybe some harder-edged sorts will discover how tender when supplies run low.

166 Government at least owes getting out of these people's way so that they can grow us some food.

Do the farmers depend on government dams to supply them with water?

167 OT (but just slightly)- If California wants to boycott Arizona over the illegal alien law, how about starting with boycotting Arizona's water and power?  Oooohhhh, guess that might be asking too much.......

168 Thanks for the post

169 It's right here that yesterday in Bible study we were discussing what evil angels do, and the topic came around to discrimination. I said there are two kinds of research paper discrimination. The first is what we think of usually - when we make judgments based on what doesn't matter, like not voting for somebody because of their race or gender research paper. That's bad discrimination. But there is discrimination that's good and necessary. For instance, "You have no way to pay this loan back; therefore I'm not going to give it to you." When we don't properly discriminate, evil thrives research paper. I explained that the KGB wanted to get rich, powerful people in media, education, and business to believe it would be good to have a society with NO discrimination research paper. That doesn't just mean we don't have the bad discrimination, but also that we don't have the good discrimination. So there's no difference between those who work and those who don't, research paper those who make sound choices and those who don't, etc. Everyone is guaranteed the same outcome regardless of what they do. Nothing we do matters research paper. That's what communism is, and people who live under it often end up alcoholics or an average of 6 abortions in their lifetime. If what we do doesn't matter, we lose the will to live. That's the legacy of communism research paper. I mentioned that Yuri Bezmenov was amazed at how the openly-communist folks from the '60's are in control of media, education, and business. And wherever someone totally controls the flow of ideas research paper, it's ripe for the devil and his surrogates to lie and deceive. As long as the realities of life and the truth are observable to everyone, we're not going to wander too far from reality research paper. But when the truth is hidden, people can't learn from reality. Then I made my fatal error. I mentioned that all of the news companies have the proof that Obama is a member of The New Party - a branch of the Democratic Socialists of America research paper. I was going to say that they won't let anyone know that truth research paper. We can make our choices for whatever reason we think best, but when someone needs to deceive us, evil is at work and we need to watch out. Before I could finish, though, a lady jumped up waving her arms and shouting that we shouldn't talk about this in church. Church is for how we're supposed to become better people research paper. Then she and her husband stormed out. Later, someone commented that the devil can work wherever he wants to, and if we refuse to consider his role in any area of our life, we give him free rein there research paper. Another added, "I think it was clear that the devil was right here in Bible study - and didn't like being recognized." It's right her