1 Your posts usually make me want to jump out of the nearest window.  About time you lightened up a little.  Ignoring the peril before us is a fools game indeed, but a constant barrage becomes....background noise.

2

It comes with the dumbing down of America.  Naturally, the politicians will be dumbed down as well.  Take our president - PLEASE! - the guy is going to sue Arizona for enforcing federal law, and our idiot AG publicly states he hasn't read the bill.

It's Thunderdome!

3 Unless you're a big fan of totalitarianism, collapse is our only hope. 

4 Don't bogart that joint, my friend.

5 Monty is Sad Clown.

6 Me, too, me too. I'll be much happier when Hillary is done with that mean Gov Brewer.

7 I liken some of what is happening on a macro level to a personal breakdown. As a person, it takes some of us to experience a great loss (job, spouse, material possessions, health) in order to act to improve things. At least it was the case for me. Such will be needed on a national or global level as well. We won't appreciate what we had until it is gone.

8 Just remember: as we learned in Rwanda in the '90s and in Kyrgystan today, sometimes events actually go so far that life DOESN'T go on. And the Rodney King riots show that even in the USA, the possibility of total breakdown bubbles just below the apparently normal surface of our daily life. Just a little ray of California sunshine for y'all this fine morning.

9 www.usdebtclock.org/

Runaway train.

10 Nice post, Mr Pollyanna.

I'm guessing you have a job and, therefore, a few coins to spend on feeding your unicorn and buying new glasses so you can see the rainbow without squinting. Good on ya, mate!

I'm sure once I have returned to working status and don't have to focus totally on the basics of survival -- while watching incompetent goons like Osama Obama pissing away other people's money on private Paul McCartney concerts and living the taxpayer-supported high life -- I, too, can again enjoy some of the beauty of the world.

I know it's there...I simply can't afford to enjoy it right now.

11 Well, no matter how depressing things get here, no country on Earth has women with better boobies.

12 Focusing on the bad to the point of ignoring the good is a grievous character flaw. People like that often take a perverse pleasure in being angry and gloomy. Oh, you mean liberals.

13

I've been fortunate enough to realize that life is still pretty good, in spite of all the bad stuff that seems to be happening at an increasingly rapid rate. Of course, suviving my heart attack last summer had something to do with it. Dying in the back of an ambulance does wonders for one's appreciation of life, however I can't recommend it to everyone.

My solution is to divide my attention between commenting on politics here at at the Interweb's best kept secret, my little blog, and enjoying my family and friends. I'm also fortunate enough to be able to play music, which cures most ills. This division must be done on purpose, as I've caught myself focusing on the negative far too often, only to be snapped back to reality by the youngest granddaughter (she's five).

Alas, another female has smitten me. This will be the last time, I promise.

Hopefully, I'm busy accumulating the life experiences that will serve God and me for the next life, where I hope to spend eternity (with Permission, of course), and can pass along some of what I've learned over the years. I've heard that you're not supposed to put a lit candle under a basket, but on top of it so everybody else can see too.

My candle hasn't yet burned to the end.

14

Things are bad out there. Monty does us all a service by reminding us, in detail, daily. But ...

A post here (I forget whose) around Memorial Day mentioned that we have monuments to remind us of how bad things have been and of how bad things can get. (I'm picturing a Weimar-era wheelbarrow full of worthless marks rendered in bronze.) Regarding the country's and world's finances, we're not there yet. In fact, we're not even close.

That's not to say things aren't bad out there; they are.

15

uh hmm, I've enjoyed my return to beans and rice.

good for the soul.

16 Such will be needed on a national or global level as well. We won't appreciate what we had until it is gone.

My gloom comes from knowing how common it is for people to be disconnected from reality enough to double-down on stupid. 

If SHTF here, then I guarantee you that most lefties who live through it will put the blame on our not having been collectivist enough before the collapse.

17

 People like that often take a perverse pleasure in being angry and gloomy.

and offended, litigious and atheistic.

Well, at least there's soccer.

 

18

A time to mourn, a time to dance.

Dancing at funerals postpones the mourning.

But this is relative to the magnatude of the personal loss.

19

Firehorse,

correct, we have the joy of history, we know where it may lead. 

I wasn't ready to not participate in doom. Let me drink a cup of coffee first, it might help my attitude.

or not.

20 What's ignored here is the difference between incompetent, bumbling, dishonest, politicians, and the ones in charge. I agree that we can survive the 'normal' ones with the traits above, but can we survive a group of commie bastards that fundamentally want to change America. I don't remember ever turning the controls of the country over to someone that literally does not LIKE the country and want to do what's best for it. Instead we have someone who thinks the USA is fundamentally BAD. He has apologized for us all over the world. They are fundamentally opposed to freedom ... they believe that a significant portion of Americans are not capable of determining their day to day lives, and they want the government to make all significant decisions for them. One thing that may change your mood ... i guess there is legislation which has been written that allows the Government to shut down the Internet. So the bright point of this is that if you do change your mind and stay gloomy, the government will shut you off so I won't know it. Of course they won't shut off the echo chamber which is the MSM, but all dissenting views in teh intertubes will be banished. I guess bottom line is that I am still in that dark place that thinks our only hope of surviving this onslaught to our country is the inability of the 52% to finish the agenda before the good guys take over again. But I am not hopeful of making any of the disastrous things get backtracked. There is not much demand for freedom instead of 'free shit'. This situation may be much like AA. Maybe we have to hit bottom really really hard before we are willing to make the changes that hurt. And maybe it's better for the country to go thru that instead of staying in that alcoholic blur for a century and then dying, drunk in a gutter.

21 Just think about getting up everyday and having family close by oh, and lots of weapons and ammo, not so bad huh?

22 Cash in the mattress is the only thing that makes any sense. All financials and all business investments are sucker plays in this environment. Yes, inflation could wipe you out. But you could be wiped out no matter what you do. With a mattress full of cash you could do well if we hit a deflationary spiral. In any event, you'll have control of your assets--they will not be confiscated by the government.

23

 "People like that often take a perverse pleasure in being angry and gloomy." 

Monty, you just distilled most of the Arab world into a single sentence. 

24

growling at Nam.

You are way to chipper for me!

and g'morning.

25 When they were considering what music to put on the Voyager record, one of the scientists suggested all the works of Johann Sebastian Bach. Another scientist rejected that idea, saying, "that would be bragging".

26 They would have to survive first in order to place blame.  Most will die if chaos reigns.

I censor the hell out of myself.  I backspaced over a prescriptive admonition before I hit the button.


This reminds me of some stupid shit we used to pull in middle school ('79 or so):  A kid got in trouble for making a threat at another kid that amounted to, "I'm going to kick your ass after school."  We got mass-lectured at an assembly about why threats are bad and would not be tolerated.

Some wiseass barracks lawyer among us (not I) came up with the dodge of making threats as references to events that had not yet happened like, "Remember that time I kicked your ass after school?" 

27

Too much doom and gloom? 

$130,000,000,000,000

 

28 Monty makes me feel like this.

29 25,

HAHA, if I don't smile everyday then I will start crying and that's the wrong road to take, you have to enjoy every single day like it was your last after it becomes habit then it's all good.

30 Yes, inflation could wipe you out. But you could be wiped out no matter what you do. With a mattress full of cash you could do well if we hit a deflationary spiral. In any event, you'll have control of your assets a soft but lumpy place to sleep--they will not be confiscated by the government.

FIFY

31

30# nam

comment tis true

 

32 No.  We're fucked.

The economic problems are dire, and we are in a Depression.  But that's not the problem.

This is a societal collapse. Our culture is finally folding under the decades of assault thrown its way.  Our people are stupid, lazy, fat, and entitled, having been brainwashed on a notion of some new American dream. They have been taught that the old formula didn't work, when in fact it is the only formula that ever did.  This nation can not survive the overthrow of its European heritage through unchecked, un-assimilated immigration, either.  It creates a new and different political class at odds with our culture.  And right then, at that point in history, along came an affirmative-action Precedent whose outlook on the world is no more sophisticated or realistic than that of a sophomore Womyn Studies major.  His job is to continue the collapse, to overthrow the old formula, to "fundamentally transform America", and his vision is at best socialist, at worst totalitarian.  There are those who oppose him, but we're weak.  We're a minority with some hangers-on being recruited, but we have to move a large, sluggish populace into our mode of thinking with the entire weight of our institutions pushing back against us.  I don't think it can be done.

That's why we're fucked.

33 " In any event, a soft but lumpy place to sleep--they will not be confiscated by the government." Heh. You could be right. I'm not claiming that I have the solution--I'm claiming that there is no solution.l

34

I'm often reminded of the great words of Calvin (the comic strip with Hobbes, not the other one):

"Life's never so bad that it can't get worse."

35

Shit's been happening all over the globe since the dawn of time.  Bad shit.  We got spoiled in this country by all the prosperity of the post-WWII years, and we drug along a good portion of the western world in our good fortune.  All that time, though, most of the world was still wallowing in chaos and poverty, or the grim totalitarianism behind the rusty Iron Curtain. 

We're still living better than any humans ever have, throughout history, in this land of milk, honey and the periodic catastrophe that makes the milk and honey taste even sweeter.  Count your blessings, and try not to whine too much, lest ye miss hearing the music.

36

It's Thunderdome!

Posted by: Wyatt Earp at June 19, 2010 10:13 AM (zgZzy)

More like Idiocracy.

37 I just saw Idiocracy last week.  Very funny movie, with a little too much truth in it for most people's delicate sensibilities.  That "racist depiction of the Prez," which was filmed prior to the rise of the New Messiah, was priceless. 

38

"Life's never so bad that it can't get worse."

However, you can hit your worst, so everything after that is an annoying fly bite by comparison. Perspective can sometimes be freeing, but sometimes in a "I wouldn't wish it on anyone" kind of way.

39 This is a societal collapse. Our culture is finally folding under the decades of assault thrown its way.  Our people are stupid, lazy, fat, and entitled, having been brainwashed on a notion of some new American dream.

I agree and disagree.  It is not inevitable that the country goes down the shitter.

The reason that so many people are stupid, lazy, fat, and entitled is because it is profitable.  This is not a natural state because it requires largesse to maintain whether it's a lifestyle for the aristocrats in a feudal system bought off the labor of the serfs or for the dependent wards of the state funded through the welfare system by taxpayers.

We are running out of other people's money, and when the money runs out, this lifestyle goes away. 

Each stupid, lazy, fat, and entitled person will have to choose to get up off his ass and contribute to his own existence, despair and wither away in his own poverty, or loot and riot until he is put down like a dog.

This is a problem with an inbuilt pressure release valve.

40 The bright side of this entire mess is that when it comes crashing down in chaos and anarchy, we'll finally be rid of that massive governement millstone hanging around our necks.

 I'll be hard pressed to feel bad for the gimmee-gimee folks when they die in the gutter with their hands out, though. Sad, sorry sacks of shit.

41

Things are pretty bad but not for any of the reasons with which we are preoccupied today.  IMO we are drifting another full-on city-levelling world war, and we have a Chamberlain in office.  Consider the econonomic volatility, ethnic migration/social change, and radical shifts in power structures taking place around the world.  Imagine how power players will change over the next few decades as the world shifts from petrochemical to the next viable energy source, and consider that petrochemical $s are being used to acquire nuclear weapons.  I don't know where or how or when the catalyst will appear, but I do know that the risk environment keeps getting worse.

Niall Ferguson wrote a good article a few years back: http://tinyurl.com/2c9ql86

Such a war would solve a lot of our current problems, and make them look trivial.

42 We will continue as we always have to live our lives, to marry and raise children, to read books and listen to music and enjoy the company of friends. This is what life is. We work to live, not the other way around.

Exactly.  I'm facing making some huge, and very scary, decisions in the next few weeks because there are multiple people who are important to me who are facing severe health problems.  But you know what?  Jobs are replaceable.  People are not.  I'll scrub toilets if I have to in order to meet my bills.  But I will not live the rest of my life regretting not being physically there for the people who need me.  That's important.  The rest?  Pointless bullshit.

43 We are running out of other people's money, and when the money runs out, this lifestyle goes away. 

Each stupid, lazy, fat, and entitled person will have to choose to get up off his ass and contribute to his own existence, despair and wither away in his own poverty, or loot and riot until he is put down like a dog.

This is a problem with an inbuilt pressure release valve.

Posted by: MikeO at June 19, 2010 11:05 AM (lBmZl)

I do mostly agree with this sentiment, which is why my first comment said "collapse is our only hope".

In the interim, we have to fight the war.  In my case, that means keeping my kids out of the line of fire.  We have set up figurative concertina wire and cleared the fields of fire.  I refuse to let them follow the masses into oblivion.

44 If we go through another Holocaust, like it looks we're headed, I don't see how we can claim a bright side to anything. I am worried sick every day about that. If that is what's looming on the horizon, 'looking on the bright side' seems like being blind to reality. Until Iran's nuclear capability is taken out permanently, there's not much to be feeling hopeful about, from where I sit. Best regards, Peter Warner.

45 If we, as a species, can hang on for another 50-100 years without civilization collapsing, then we may be over the hump. I believe we will get there -- it's just that the path between here and there is likely to be a rough and rocky one.

46 Thank you, Monty.  I think too many of our conservative colleagues get too wrapped up in the doom-and-gloom of the moment and fail to see the big picture.  We should count our small blessings.

47 To all of you people who think the world is coming to an end:  Seriously, you watch too much cable news.  I challenge you to go 3 days without watching TV or surfing the web or reading the paper.  I guarantee your mood will improve.

48 Thanks, Monty.  I'm not going to trash you for going happy hippy - given the "game over man, we're fucked" attitude of many of late, a reminder that life goes on was in order.  Not that it's stopped a few from snarling at you anyway.

This is where the "Party of No" meme gets traction - if you walk around in a perpetual scowl shouting "the end is near" every time someone says "hello" they'll stop listening to you. And if they stop listening to the voices of reason, then being fucked becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy.

49 Posted by: chemjeff at June 19, 2010 11:17 AM (Gk/wA)

Wrong.  This isn't about what's on the news, our politics, our economy, etc.  Day to day events are merely symptoms.  This has been decades in the making, and in many ways can be traced to KGB influence during the Cold War.  They're still winning.

50 Monty, thanks.  My husband and I were out to dinner last night, and he gently reminded me that I needed to get off my doom and gloom, Obama is taking us to hell on a high speed train mantra.  And I realized he's right.  I can come here and rant, rave and snark.  But in my personal day-to-day relationships, I need to lighten up and appreciate the many blessings we do have.  We've had some tough times, and they don't look to be improving too much in the near future, but we are also extremely fortunate.  All we need to do is look around to see others in far worse straits.

Again, thank you.

51

This nation can not survive the overthrow of its European heritage through unchecked, un-assimilated immigration, either.

Back when TCS Daily had the best columns on the 'net, an author (Lee Child or Arnold Kling, I forget which) wrote a piece about multiculturalism. He said that multiculturalism can work -- history has demonstrated this many times -- because it really isn't multicultural. When there are three or more cultures coexisting, there's always one fundamental culture that prevades them all. Ancient Rome was an example of this. The United States is another.

Biculturalism, however, is trouble. When two different and distinct cultures meet in the same place, they clash. The victor stays and establishes its civilization. The loser, if it survives, leaves.

If this is what you see, Herr M., with the English-speakers and the Spanish-speakers in this country, then our nation can survive. But it probably won't be pretty.

(In the meantime, watch Estonia to see how biculturalism plays out on a smaller scale. If the natives and the Russian-speakers continue to get along, we should analyze and learn. If it doesn't, we should gird.)

52

Chem, heck i don't really think the world is coming to an end.

however, i do see us living in times that might possibly resemble 1930s,  without the skills of how to cook food without a microwave. heh

53 I guarantee your mood will improve. The key, I think, is to understand the problem without letting it dominate your life. I went through a divorce several years ago that was the absolute nadir of my existence on this earth: every day seemed worse than the one before, and daylight seemed like a dream I once had rather than anything I'd actually experienced. It was abjectly horrible. I needed distance and perspective. My own woes were fleeting, and over the course of time began to seem rather minor in comparison to the travails of other people. I was rather ashamed at how I'd allowed myself to wallow in my misery. I felt much better when I began to look forward rather than back, and to act rather than let things happen. The crisis we are in will not abate in a year, or five years, or probably even ten. It took a long time to work up the complex knot; it'll take a long time to unravel it. All we can do is be prepared. But we also need to remember that life is happening to us all the while: births, deaths, marriages, friendships, art and music and letters and all the other things that make life worth living. They are not tangenital to the world I'm trying to preserve; they are the reason I'm trying to preserve the world.

54

Maybe we'd feel better if there were some steps we could take to financially protect ourselves...for example, convert to precious metals? Get out of the dollar? I could use some simple ideas from those of you wise in the ways of finance.

 

Or, I was fishing with a friend of mine who is wise in these ways, but he thinks we're all fucked as well, that nothing can protect you from the mayhem.

55 Ancient Rome was an example of this. The United States is another.

QED

56  what's up with Steve Forbes and that neck brace?

57 I occasionally take a vacation from the news, and it's always a welcome mental break. Problem is, every time I tune back in, a new economy is on the verge of collapse, or Iran has made a new leap forward with their nuke program, or Obama has confiscated another generation's worth of wealth, etc. Of course, even tuning out and chilling by the pool means I have to look at the house next door which has been foreclosed/empty for almost a year. Don't know whatever happened to the whole family, but the adult son now lives in a shitty little rental complex nearby. Depressing as hell, really.

58 Posted by: Herr Morgenholz at June 19, 2010 11:20 AM (xnD7S)

The KGB????????

dude, take off the tinfoil hat

59 I felt much better when I began to look forward rather than back, and to act rather than let things happen.

True enough.  If you think the world is collapsing, do something about it.  Maybe you can't change the world but you can change the circumstances surrounding your own life.

60 what's up with Steve Forbes and that neck brace?

He's recovering from back surgery.

61 CDR M

Heh.  I like your answer better.

62 I'll tell you what will make me happy today, heading over to Lowe's and buying another freezer for the garage and put it next to the other one and fill it with shrimp, fish and meat, tomorrow I'll think of something else that pleases me.

63 But we also need to remember that life is happening to us all the while: births, deaths, marriages, friendships, art and music and letters and all the other things that make life worth living. They are not tangenital to the world I'm trying to preserve; they are the reason I'm trying to preserve the world.

Absolutely.  I've got a kid in the oven, three other various short people always saying "I'm hungry", (one of which is going hormonal on me at the advanced age of 10.  Oy.) ,a beautiful wife,  the damnedest garden since Eden itself, friends, family, all that.

There is a far side to this if we keep on keeping on.  I'm just hoping I get there to see it without either time or violence preventing me.

64

This has been decades in the making, and in many ways can be traced to KGB influence during the Cold War. They're still winning.

Oh, that. (I misinterpreted in #54. Sorry.) Lenin's culture bomb, I call it. Weaponized ideas, deliberately designed to destroy our insitutions and our way of life like a slow-release virus. But like any bomb, once it's detonated ...

Yeah. I get what you're taking about now. You're 110% right about that one. The extra 10% is stuff we don't even know about yet.

65 I linked to Bach's Brandenburg Concerto for a reason. Remember that this piece was written in a time far removed from now. Prior to world wars and catastrophes without number. Yet it endures, a piece of everlasting loveliness that is a testament to human will and experience. I could have posted Michelangelo's David or Van Gogh's Starry Night or any one of a million other things -- this is what we accomplish when we are at our best. We know the worst -- the fecklessness, the incompetence, the foolishness, lies, greed, stupdity -- but sometimes make the mistake of thinking that's all there is. This ageless and lovely piece of music puts the lie to that idea.

66

Freedom = "the world is coming to an end, but shit happens."

 

67 thanks CDR M amd Jane!

68 I linked to Bach's Brandenburg Concerto I mean the Goldberg Variations, of course. Yeesh. I can't even get my own links right!

69 62 Posted by: Herr Morgenholz at June 19, 2010 11:20 AM (xnD7S)

The KGB????????

dude, take off the tinfoil hat

Well,  I, for one, don't think the CommIntern just magically disappeared. In fact, they reappeared in our White House, last I checked.  Oh, and at the helm of the unions since the early 20th century.  Influence of that magnitude simply doesn't pass quietly into the night.

70 When Mort Zuckerman, the British and the Germans concur that Obama is fucking the world from the fucked over US, catch your breath while they maintain the moan.

71

chemjeff, #62: The KGB????????

dude, take off the tinfoil hat

C'mon, chemjeff, you know: "Fellow travelers." "Useful idiots." "Control the newsrooms and the classrooms." Yes, the KGB.

Don't tell me this is all new to you.

72 The KGB????????

dude, take off the tinfoil hat

Yes.  The KGB.  You don't think the little red church Obama attended as a kid funded itself, do you?  You don't think Abby Hoffman and Bill Ayers and Tom Hayden organized without a little help, do you?  You don't think the Soviet agent arrested coming over the Ambassador Bridge in Detroit in early 69 with bags of cash destined for Chicago's "Days of Rage" was just a one-off, do you? 

Google Yuri Bezmenov.  Ion Pacepa.

Then remember the rants of your poli-sci prof from sophomore year.

73

Posted by: 'Nam Grunt at June 19, 2010 11:30 AM (LIUS5)

I highly recommend it.  Check Home Depot as well, they are having a pretty good pre-July4th sale.

Buy a couple of extra freezers, go get all sorts of seafood and store it, I want my LA shrimp, in the words of James Carville, I want LA shrimp not indonesian shrimp.

74

I've lived through Johnson fucking up a war. Nixon playing with price controls. Carter crying at night over the bunny. A couple of financial crashes.

 

...

 

the fuck? this sucks.

 

And yet I live. 

75

You have no idea how bad things are going to become.

TARP, the bankruptcy of Fannie & Freddie & GM & Chrysler, Social Security in the red, 21% cuts in Medicare - that's only the very tip of the iceberg.

1) Purchase ammunition.

2) Homeschool your children.

Gotta go for now - TTYL.

 

76 80,

I'm doing it today, already picked it out, it will be delivered this evening.

77

Posted by: Monty at June 19, 2010 11:30 AM (jM/Et)

And Toni Morrison and Maya Angelou and John Cage and Piss Christ and the Vagina Monologues and any number of shapeless blobs on college campuses and in front of post offices passing themselves off as sculpture. 

78 'Nam Grunt, a funny story (sort of).  A few years ago we had a snake (harmless) in the garage, and D'oh Boy scooted it out from under the freezer and out the back door of the garage.  Snake gone.  Problem solved.  A few days later, I went out to get some shrimp out (we had 10 lbs. of head on shrimp we'd bought off a boat), and our kid had inadvertently pulled the plug on the freezer(!!!).  It was mid-summer, and needless to say, we damned near had to throw out the freezer.  The solution to the smell was two open cans of ground coffee for a week or so. 

79

my 2 cents about this, so long as govt refuse to confront reality of not propping up economnies with toothpicks, this will go on.

Being that economies are now so interconnected, its the economy that wants to confront and resolve this debt today will be the one to suffer first, but then it will also be the first to come of it.

Right now we are in the eye of the hurricane, when we come out of the eye and have to face the brunt of the storm on the back end, and this will be much more severe, depends on when any major economy pulls the plug on "extend and pretend" (i.e. Europe)

This is why the fool in the WH is pleading with Europe to keep up the spending, yet Europe knows this spending will come bite them in the ass down the road.

80 and for the record, I very much doubt Mr."I won" has any clue about anything, let alone the economy, he just signs what is placed in front of him, just like this letter that was recently sent to the head of the G20

81

Here'e a lttle tidbit I learned the hard way - what goes around, comes around.

If you are angry, sullen, depressed, dour, sour, or otherwise just plain disgruntled, you are poisoning yourself. You may have a very good and justifiable reason to feel that way, but I'll guarantee your friends won't see it the same way.

For example, notice my absence of concern lately for the glaring lack on this site of bacon, boobies, Thai tranny hooker porn, recipes for hobo marinade, discount coupons for Valu-Rite, and tips for shaving LauraW's hump.

I've mellowed.

82 Romans 8:28 helps me. A lot. So does James 1:2-18.

83 Our government is being run by colossally incompetent people, but this is hardly a new development. Incompetents, as usual, have created problems that have redounded to everyone's misfortune. Want to kill this one before it spreads. Yes, they're incompetent. But the majority of their "incompetence" is a result of their lousy ideas. The progressives want to turn the next election into an argument over "competence" (maybe Hillary can do it better!). That way their program never gets questioned. And we're back to the old, "This time, we're gonna do Communism RIGHT" routine.

84 I'll tell you what will make me happy today, heading over to Lowe's and buying another freezer for the garage and put it next to the other one and fill it with shrimp, fish and meat, tomorrow I'll think of something else that pleases me.

Posted by: 'Nam Grunt at June 19, 2010 11:30 AM (LIUS5)

Will you adopt me?

85
The bicultural problem is a global one.  At its heart, the problem is between the people who claim entitlement to the fruits of other people's labor and those who only begrudgingly accept the fruits of other people's labor.

There is no way to legislate shame, so the people not bound by it will always enslave the people who are.

That is just the way it is.

86

just in...

"Merkel says EU will “swiftly” end stimulus programs, focus on debt "

All I gotta say.  GO DR. MERKEL!

87 Herr et al:
If you're blaming our current problems on the pernicious influence of socialist ideas, that's something I can get behind.

If you're blaming our current problems on the lingering effects of 60's radicals, well I think that's a more difficult case to make but I'm willing to look at the evidence.

But fucking SOVIET SPIES?  You sound nuttier than a fruitcake when you claim this.

88

It's good to take hope where you can find it.  Damn little, though there is.  Personally I can't imagine how some folk can take so much hope from the state of things that they willingly bring more kids into the world to suffer what is about to come upon us, but neither can I condemn them. 

For me, hope comes from only one thought - the possibility, though no one can be certain at all, that the eschaton is nearly upon us.  This tired, worn out world has carried on far too long already.  The last, greatest, most powerful culture - the Anglo-Saxon system in the US and Britain at the end of the 19th century, is nearly dead now.  It died because, in spite of all its great virtue, it did not have the aggressive will to conquer and to lay waste to all that stood to subvert and destroy it.  We suffer as a result of tolerance for evil and depravity - the misguided principle of "live and let live." 

89

When Obama's policies lead to a real breakdown of society where folks actually go Galt and get off the grid or whatever...which could happen if he gets another four years...the true Americans will be revealed.  I wouldn't hate that.

90 Am I focusing on the bad news and ignoring or downplaying the good?

When a pro football player is in the training room watching film of his performance the previous Sunday, should he take note of what he did right and admire it, or should he take note of what he did wrong and change his methodology accordingly?

91

Yesterday, Barack Obama implored the EU to continue down the path of government spending and borrowing in order to keep Western economies afloat.  Today, Obama got his answer from German Chancellor Angela Merkel in the form of a rebuke.  The upcoming G-20 conference will sharply change economic policy direction for the EU, which intends to stop its Keynesian public-spending projects and start repairing its critical debt situation instead:
Europe will push for a swift exit from fiscal stimulus programs and a focus on budget consolidation at the G20 meeting next week, German Chancellor Angela Merkel said on Saturday.

“European participants are of the opinion that this is urgently necessary to prevent such crises from happening again in the future,” Merkel said in her weekly podcast. …

Merkel’s stance contrasted with that of U.S. President Barack Obama, who this week said public finance problems should be addressed “in the medium term” — a warning that clamping down budgets should not be done at the expense of recovery.
European governments have been launching austerity measures to head off a spread of the debt crisis begun in Greece.

92 yes, I recommend a backup generator for that freezer, sometimes Lowes and Home Depot will cut you a deal if you buy both.  Consider buying one, b/c even those garage freezers, while they stay colder for longer, its good to have a backup power source

93 33

Agreed.

Excellent post Monty and it shows the ability to self scrutinize. That in itself- is a lost art form.

What makes these times so perilous- is that we have written a check our asses can't cash. With over 13 trillion in debt, another 50 trill coming due and payable, we are fucked. With all of our jobs gone, there is nobody to tax and thus the debt will mount rapidly. You don't have to be Einstein to figure this out. For two years I have written about this.

All we have managed to do was shift an acute collapse from the ones that caused it to the ones who didn't. Politicians cannot save us. They cannot look a voting bloc in the eye and say, we can't pay you. They will continue to amass debt and do anything they can to survive while avoiding the ugly reality that all of those entitlements can't be paid.

That's why I find it so incredibly ridiculous to even argue politics at this point. It just doesn't matter. If the government doesn't start slashing and burning costs, like wiping out entire bureaucracies like the D.O.E., and paying down principal, we're boned.

And one last thing. Calling a piece of shit a piece of shit is fine. Doing so is not mutually exclusive of a happy life. It is necessary. And I'll be G'damned if I am going to let the uninformed cowards dictate my beliefs which are grounded in fact. If they want to ignore this debt Godzilla, sing Kumbaya that's ok. They cannot escape what is coming whether they hide under the bed or not. Trying to exert their brand of peer pressure and ignorance on me will not solve the problem. It is immediate action time.

The truth is adamantly opposed, then ridiculed, then accepted as self evident. Those are the stages we work through. You're part of the solution Monty, the ignorant masses are the problem.

94 Bach's era was no bed of roses, either.  The Thirty Years War, which ended 37 years before JSB was born, devastated Germany.  Brandenburg lost half of its population.  Add to that the usual outbreaks of plague, pestilence, famine, etc. and the mileposts of art through time  become even more precious and inspirational.

95 98,

I have 3 ready to go.

96 "Am I focusing on the bad news and ignoring or downplaying the good? Have I let my dislike of the Obama Administration infect my view of the economy as well?" IMO, yes and yes. I enjoy your posts because they're well-written, smart, and thought-provoking, but I think there's a danger of being trapped in a particular point of view to the exclusion of all others. The remedy is to read opinions diametrically opposed to your own. For instance, here's an interview with James K. Galbraith provocatively titled "The Danger Posed by the Deficit is Zero": tiny.cc/72vv6 Is Galbraith right or wrong, or maybe half right? Let's face it -- no one really knows. Equally well qualified experts can and do disagree. But remember that there are people who are making a lot of money for themselves by fear-mongering. It is in their interest to keep people scared to death.

97 But fucking SOVIET SPIES?  You sound nuttier than a fruitcake when you claim this.

Truth.  Fiction.  Stranger than. Some assembly required.  But it happened.  The KGB ran a massive campaign of demoralization and infiltration of our institutions.  Gramscian theory stuff.  According to Yuri Bezmenov, it took up as much as 85% of their resources.  Lots of open source shit, right there in public view.  It succeeded.  I think it's odd too, but you prove it in your comment.  You agree that the socialist mindset and the 60s radicals are the problem, or at least arguably so.

They were nurtured and supported by the KGB as an act of war.

98

and the rest of the hotair article, for some reason the tinyurl won't let me post the link,

 

EU leaders got a look into the abyss this year with the near-collapse of Greece.   Had that cancer spread throughout the Continent, it would have touched off a global financial crisis that would have been worse than the first shock in 2008 when the US housing bubble popped.  With its debt well above its annual GDP, Greece had no way of shoring itself up without substantial assistance from its EU partners, who began looking at their own balance sheets and wondering which nations would be next to go. That was enough to cure Europe of its Keynesian impulses, at least for now.

ItÂ’s a strong rebuff to Obama, who explicitly asked the EU to continue its stimulus spending despite the debt issue in the US reaching a critical stage. It puts the Obama administration to the left of Europe on economic policy, never a comfortable political position in the US.  With the Europeans abandoning big-spending programs in order to start whittling down the massive debt piled up from decades of social spending and weak economic growth, there will be less enthusiasm for continuing to ignore the American national debt in favor of make-work projects in the US that has done little to lift the economy here.

Furthermore, the divide threatens to weaken American economic leadership in the G-20 if Obama insists on pursuing big-spending programs and increasing American debt.  Europe will see that as a sign that the US has not learned any lessons from the Greece failure, and that the Obama administration wants to follow the Greeks into collapse.  WeÂ’re becoming a bad bet, and the EU knows what that looks like.

99

remember, the brandenburg concertos were composed during the Great Northern War and only a few years after the war of Spanish succession (13 years of blood) concluded.

Life has been much, much worse, for most of human history.  We just need to know how to survive.

100 Herr, that happened 30 years ago. 

101 Herr, that happened 30 years ago. 

Posted by: chemjeff at June 19, 2010 12:00 PM (Gk/wA)

And its fruit is running the asylum.

102

I got a pink slip out of the blue yesterday.  Totally unexpected.  And I've got zip in the bank.  But oddly enough, I think I will find another job pretty soon.  And on the bright side, I have some time with my son before he graduates high school next year and goes off to college or to a career as a rock star.  He just got straight As for the first time in 3 years.  I'm on the downside of my career, but every day watching him on the upside of his is like a little miracle.  He's even giving me advice on finding another job. 

This recession has also squeezed a lot of the consumption-mania out of me and my family.  I used to spend most weekends out shopping for useless shit and clothes I didn't really need.  I haven't done that in a long time and probably won't again.  I'm back to cleaning my own house and doing my own yard work.  I went from three computers in the house to one.  And if the shit really hits the fan I can sell my house and cash in the kids' college funds since they are both smarter than shit and will get scholarships. 

I hate like hell watching what the Democrats are doing to our country.  But we've actually been through worse and survived, and the backlash in November is going to be huge and gratifying.  The debt is staggering but as long as most of us continue to work hard and produce like Americans, we still have the best economy in the world, and we have leaders like Chris Christie coming up through the ranks who will get us through the lean times.

I should probably be as pessimistic as anyone here, but strangely I'm not.

103

""We Are On The Verge Of System Failure" "

Arnella Sims has seen a lot in her 34 years as a Los Angeles County court reporter, but nothing like this.

Case files piling up by the thousands, phones ringing off the hook, forced midweek courthouse closings and occasional brawls as frustrated citizens queue for hours to pay parking fines.
“People think we’re becoming a Third World country,” said Ms. Sims, 55. “They don’t understand.”

It’s a story that’s being repeated all across California – and throughout the United States – as cash-strapped state and local governments grapple with collapsed tax revenues and swelling budget gaps. Mass layoffs, slashed health and welfare services, closed parks, crumbling superhighways and ever-larger public school class sizes are all part of the new normal.

CaliforniaÂ’s fiscal hole is now so large that the state would have to liberate 168,000 prison inmates and permanently shutter 240 university and community college campuses to balance its budget in the fiscal year that begins July 1.
Think of California as Greece on the Pacific: bankrupt and desperately needing a bailout.

“We are on the verge of system failure,” warned Jean Ross, executive director of the California Budget Project, an independent think tank based in Sacramento. None of this would matter much to anyone outside the not-so-Golden State except that California’s budget crisis is a harbinger of a grim dilemma that all Americans will soon confront. The country has built an elaborate and costly government machine, tied to a regressive tax system that can’t generate enough revenue to pay for it all.

104 And its fruit is running the asylum.

What, are you saying Obama is a Manchurian Soviet spy or something?  I don't quite see your point.  You are sounding more and more tinfoil-hatty.  The Cold War is over.  We aren't fighting the Soviets or the KGB.  Now we are fighting socialist ideas, yes, but that's different than saying we are still at war with the KGB.

105

Good Lord, it's the KGB doing us in.  LOL.

Imagine if they had had internet, talk radio and cable news during the Great Depression, instead of just Woody Guthrie and Hearst.  You think it's gloomy in the here and now?  This is nothing, compared to what our recent ancestors survived in this very country. 

Get a grip. 

106

Chemjeff, the fall of the Soviet empire released a bunch of previously classified documents that showed them working on many ways to infiltrate American society in the effort to bring us down from within. Granted, there were a few goofy ideas, like telepathy, but they had many of their best and brightest working around the clock to insure our downfall. Just their work on brainwashing is enough to question their sanity. (See what I did there?)

They realized that they couldn't defeat us militarily, so the devised the next best method of conquest - destroy us from within.

Current events seem to indicate that it worked. It just took a while.

107 We are running out of other people's money, and when the money runs out, this lifestyle goes away. 

Each stupid, lazy, fat, and entitled person will have to choose to get up off his ass and contribute to his own existence, despair and wither away in his own poverty, or loot and riot until he is put down like a dog.

This is a problem with an inbuilt pressure release valve.

Posted by: MikeO at June 19, 2010 11:05 AM (lBmZl)

Cut, jib, newsletter.

108 50 To all of you people who think the world is coming to an end:  Seriously, you watch too much cable news.  I challenge you to go 3 days without watching TV or surfing the web or reading the paper.  I guarantee your mood will improve.

Posted by: chemjeff at June 19, 2010 11:17 AM (Gk/wA)

 

Absolutely!!!  I did something like this Thursday.  I was on the road all day seeing business owners (or trying to, anyway) but decided that I'd rather just listen to music than news/talk radio.  Chemjeff is right, give this a try.

109 Life is Good, its our goverment that sucks.  It is a shame that we have wandered so far from the founders plan and intent.  I do not think that we can retrace our steps; I think it has to collapse so we can build it back right.  I think that will happen soon, and for that I am glad.  At age 54, I want to be around to help rebuild and get back to what we once had.

110 What a Wonderful World! 

It isn't just Bach that makes you see beauty in the world.

111 Sorry, not Bill Clinton.

112 Oh I see.  You seem to think that "being brainwashed by Soviet propaganda via the KGB" and "having sincere socialist views" are the same.  Well I don't.  I think one can sincerely and honestly be a socialist without having even heard of the KGB.  I'm not a socialist of course, I disagree with socialism strongly, but I also don't think one must be subjected to brainwashing in order to become a socialist.

113 What, are you saying Obama is a Manchurian Soviet spy or something?

Yes, in a third-generation sort of way.  His ilk was planted and nurtured by our ideological enemies.

114

Current events seem to indicate that it worked. It just took a while.

Posted by: BackwardsBoy at June 19, 2010 12:05 PM (i3AsK)

Exactly.  Many projects have a delayed effect.  Had this all born its bitter fruit much earlier Reagan would have have had the resources needed to win the Cold War.  As is, we're going to see our global reach and power dramatically diminished in the near future.  Fortress America will no longer be optional - it'll be the only plan we can afford.  Especially given that we're willing to buy a bomb 100 times more costly than necessary to give us the option to "spare innocent civilians" with its high precision and minimized yield.  Saving the lives of our enemies while fighting them is an expensive proposition.

115 You do a great job Monty, keep up the good work.

116 The KGB didn't need to infiltrate and influence American history.  The same socialist ideas and totalitarian means of getting those ideas enforced existed among our citizens already, and still do today. 

117 I also don't think one must be subjected to brainwashing in order to become a socialist.

I do.  Socialism does not work, and everyone but a brainwashed socialist knows it.

118

At some point we all have to say: I have done the best I could with what was given to me at that time.  There is nothing else any person can do, and worrying about things quite beyond that truism  becomes counterproductive after a while.

I've fallen into that trap a lot lately, but it does nobody any good.  The best thing I can see people doing is to not lose their hearts nor their wits.  The rest of the world (and this includes the statist traitors among us, because they don't think like Americans out of choice) has always had a very telling knack of underestimating Americans -- lets us work and pray that they have done so again.

 

In the mean time, my shape up training pre-recruitment has been sidelined thanks to a really painful, nasty blister (the size of a quarter, right on my heel) -- I've popped it, cleaned it out, put one of those fancy blister bandaids on it when I wear shoes but the damn thing has me hobbling.  Any patent home rememdies to get me back and running (or walking -- walking with shoes on and not hobbling in pain would be nice).

119 I'm gonna get off my ass and actually get something done.  Later taters.

120
Yeah, but did your old friend sign the paper or tell the government man to leave?

I've been waiting weeks to find out.

121 Doom, now half off!

122 Keep doing what you're doing, Monty. I really enjoy your financial posts. When the world is only offering bad news, it's a lot better to laugh at it than keep saying "unexpectedly," like a baby who just learned to say "shit."

123
Incidentally, and I only mean this half-jokingly...

I think I know why we get so much spam for replica watches. It's because we have a replica president.

We live in a time when our nation has a replica president and a cheap imitation congress.

124 I do.  Socialism does not work, and everyone but a brainwashed socialist knows it.

Well, Herr Morgenholz, in my experience, socialists are people who believe that capitalism is a stacked deck, so they want "fairness" imposed by the might of the state.  They have no problem going to the store and trading money for produce, like any good capitalist, but then they look at the housing market meltdown and their knee-jerk reaction is "THE GREEDY BANKERS RIPPED PEOPLE OFF!!!!!"  They aren't brainwashed, they just are shallow thinkers who are suffering from cognitive dissonance.

125 Herr Morgenholz, really, you give the KGB too much credit.  Socialists haven't been brainwashed, they just have weak minds.

126

unknown jane.

In the Marine Corps, we would put on a big piece of mole skin over the blister.  It works even better if you can glue it on with some benzoin spray.  Worked for me pretty well.

127  I'll tell you what will make me happy today, heading over to Lowe's and buying another freezer for the garage and put it next to the other one and fill it with shrimp, fish and meat, tomorrow I'll think of something else that pleases me.

Posted by: 'Nam Grunt at June 19, 2010 11:30 AM (LIUS5)

I'm with you, 'Nam.  I started buying $5 bags of shrimp from Wally World as soon as the spill hit.  I have a full-size freezer in the garage, a spare fridge/freezer, packed to the gills (also in the garage) and the house fridge/freezer that's also at capacity.  Don't forget that nifty portable generator Maet featured on last night's ONT.

128 I for one wish you would write about something else.  I've long enjoyed your comments over the years but your hand wringing, gloom and doom posts on the economy are a complete waste of your talents.  Also, as financial professional, I've developed an especially low tolerance for amatuer economic commentary.  It seems economics is one of the few areas where the woefully ignorant don't hesitate to express an opinion. 

129 I blame our collective inability to overcome the vastly superior powers & principalities imparting their will and winning battle after battle in this epochs long war of the ages. I am counting on the long term promise that my soul will escape the next Big Crunch - Big Bang (pretty much eternal hell) and proceed right to go with 200 bucks in hand... It'll be fun to watch it all play out on the Big DVR some day. If that rapture thing is a misinterpretation, I hope and pray that God helps me go down smiling and strong.

130 I love your financial updates Monty.  Thanks for all that you do to keep us morons informed.  I don't think that what you spout is 'doom and gloom' as much as it is the truth.  Hard to sugarcoat the truth to make it any less painful that it is.  It is good to be hip to the truth.  I also must say that I am a relative newby at AoS and enjoy reading the insight here.  By far the most informative place on these here intertubes.

131

Considering brainwashing, notice the similarities in recent converts to Islam. They all seem to exhibit the same symptoms. A rapid and dramatic change in orientation away from their families, friends and country, often to the point of insulting their own family by adopting a foreign name.

Note also how rational arguments based on reality are totally ignored by folks like CodePink and their ilk. Logic just doesn't work inside their heads.

You're correct that socialism isn't new, but it seems as though the US was fairly impervious to it prior to the '60's. Something changed, radically and for the worse. I somehow doubt that a secure, happy and comfortable populace would slit its' own throat by willfully adopting a political and societal order that was the antithesis of the principles that the country was built upon.

That scenario just doesn't make sense.

132 But oddly enough, I think I will find another job pretty soon.

Unless you have some unique skill that's in really big demand, don't count on it. I felt this way in January of 2009. Despite all my efforts so far, the baited hook has scarcely been nibbled on, so to speak.

133 115

Sweet. Former Santa Barbarian here. I like that.

I'm not sure that the rest of the country understands the dilemma facing California. It is already a systemic failure.

I remember a very good project manager telling me one secret rule of project management. Never take a half finished project over budget and try to resolve it under budget and on schedule with the same rules and governance. You will be just as fucked as your predecessor. However, if you are given free reign to do anything imaginable, damn the costs and the pain, it might be worthwhile.

That pain might include kicking out all illegal immigrants, shuttering schools and teachers, breaking up public unions and prisons, hella ugly public retirement reform, and requiring American biz to get their asses back to our soil and quit using the slave labor of the pac rim. That's quite a job and undoubtedly horribly painful. It's not a job for a pussy like Oilbama or Brown. It's a job for someone with great moral courage and I just ain't seeing it among the existing candidates.

134

rockmom, I suspect that's maturity and perspective on your part.  Don't get me wrong, that totally sucks.

 

But you'll be ok.

And I for one am grateful for citizens like you, who are resilient.

 

My very best to your son.  I have sent two off to school now, I get it.

135 I got a pink slip out of the blue yesterday. Totally unexpected. Hang in there, rockmom. In my experience, there are always jobs for smart and capable people, even in a down economy. The idiots and incompetents get weeded out sooner or later. You're showing the proper attitude -- belief in yourself is the Alpha without which no other action is possible. As far as the Euro crisis goes: I'm still betting that Germany exits the Euro rather than the dissolution of the entire Eurozone. It may happen this year, but I'm betting sometime within the next five years. Structurally, Germany won't really be given a choice -- their own voters will force the issue. The Club Med eurozone countries don't have a very good historical record of "austerity", and I don't think the current situation will bring out the better angels of their nature either. Which is to say: riots, strikes, slowdowns, and all kinds of civil unrest; but no real solution to the debt they groan under. Compared to Europe or even China, America is in much, much better shape.

136 monty....your "friend" wants you to ignore the bad...so it can get worse.....he wants you to "feel" bad about thinking the worst....and he wants you to think there is something "wrong" with you not the economy, not the country, not the administration, not the un.....in actuality, your "friend" is one of "those" people....

137
Unless you have some unique skill that's in really big demand, don't count on it.

====================================

You ever consider volunteering for a suicide hotline?

138 Why should we be gloomy, with O'Reilly looking out for us, and Beck connecting the dots for us. 

139

Congresswoman asks Gen. Peterus if the US is using renewals on Afghan. bases

Oh.  These people truely are dumber than rocks.

http://tinyurl.com/29u6kd4

140
Obama just called me and said, "Don't stop thinking about tomorrow."

141 Romans 8:28 helps me. A lot. So does James 1:2-18.

Posted by: Once saved, always saved? at June 19, 2010 11:45 AM (Epj2t)

Sarah Palin has said she daily opens the Bible to a random page, and more often than not, what she has opened to pertains to her current situation in an uncanny way.  And while I'm an observant Catholic to the Nth degree, I had never read the Bible the way some folks do.  So, the other night, I open it and it's at the beginning of Psalms.  To summarize, the first three say that evil doers are gonna get smited.  The wording described DC to a tee.  So, we got that going for us, which is nice. 

142

Republicans look to make big gains in the midterms, and unless the economy turns around soon and in a big way, Obama won't win again in 2012.  I see no reason for conservatives to be gloomy about anything, unless they are out of work. 

143 hey rockmom sorry to hear about that, best of luck to you

144
Renewals?

As in recyclable stuff?

145

138  Semper Fi brother -- and yeah, I've already tried that.  The biggest problem I've had with the blasted thing is moisture and the location/size -- there's no way to escape the rubbing, and it's getting bloody no matter what I do.  Won't get any better until the skin hardens I guess.

I need to go out and get a new pair of sneakers...but I don't really have the budget for it.

146 Also, as financial professional, I've developed an especially low tolerance for amatuer economic commentary. It seems economics is one of the few areas where the woefully ignorant don't hesitate to express an opinion. My, aren't those pretty credentials you have. Do they stay shiny when you stick them up your ass? If Monty is incorrect, you have the same opportunity as anyone else to dispute his assertions.

147 But fucking SOVIET SPIES?  You sound nuttier than a fruitcake when you claim this.

Posted by: chemjeff at June 19, 2010 11:49 AM (Gk/wA)

http://bit.ly/NibU0

Link is to commie blaster dot com.  Everything is sourced.

148 BackwardsBoy, socialism has been in this country in a long time - look up Eugene Debs and the Socialist Party back in the 1900's and 1910's.

149 Economics always has seemed to be the science of speculation.  Economic experts seem to be consistently wrong  in their predictions.

150 140 I for one wish you would write about something else.  I've long enjoyed your comments over the years but your hand wringing, gloom and doom posts on the economy are a complete waste of your talents.  Also, as financial professional, I've developed an especially low tolerance for amatuer economic commentary.  It seems economics is one of the few areas where the woefully ignorant don't hesitate to express an opinion.

This comment reflects precisely the kind of worthless, ignorant rhetoric that I am constantly subjected to.

So here we go. I will give you the intellectual high ground that you so mightily claim, do tell Charlie...what's your solution?

151
btw, don't be one those people who always stay positive. Those people are fools.

Imagine where we'd be if people such as Ben Franklin and Thomas Jefferson and John Hancock had sunny dispositions and stated positive while waiting for the king to do right by the American colonists instead of being outspoken of their impending doom and servitude.

152

I got a pink slip out of the blue yesterday. Totally unexpected.

Rockmom, keep your chin up. Its hard, but you will be ok. I own a small business, I hired an extra person last week, I had to not increase anyone's comp. so that I could still have an extra person, but the reason I hired this new person, he was a honest hard working person.  There are always opportunities for people like yourself, sometimes it may not be what you like or want, but employers are always looking for employees who are sincere and hard working, even in this economy.

Don't give up.

153 RushBabe, again, to be a socialist is different than to be someone under the influence of KGB brainwashing

154 It's my observation that most people that cannot grasp the simple concept of the law of supply and demand are the ones most likely to vote for a leftwing fool like Obama.

155 "1 Your posts usually make me want to jump out of the nearest window.  About time you lightened up a little.  Ignoring the peril before us is a fools game indeed, but a constant barrage becomes....background noise.

Posted by: working_man at June 19, 2010 10:12 AM (Qe/jL)"

Aha..you haven't been reading the financial blogs I've been reading then, cause monty to me becomes "a walk in the park", "a breathe of fresh air"

I read monty and I still wear my "bull" cufflinks!

156
Funny thing about The Holy Bible: it's pretty much an instruction manual for life.

A timeless instruction manual, at that. It's all in there.

157 I see no reason for conservatives to be gloomy about anything, unless they are out of work. This presupposes that Republicans will govern any better than Democrats have, in a macro sense. I don't see any real evidence of that fact, given the eight years under George W. Bush (whom I voted for -- twice! -- and still think is ten times the man Bammer is or ever will be). Economics is politics at a very fundamental level (as it will continue to be for as long as governments control the money supply). And GOP politicians are only slightly less cowardly than Democrats when it comes to making hard and unpopular financial decisions. All you have to do is look at the Social Security or health-care debates to know how impossible politicians find it to actually cut spending. I'm coming to the point of believing that a fundamental, worldwide "default" on debt is going to be the only alternative to a decades-long Depression. Just re-set the clock and start over. Forgive all debts, reform the monetary system, and start over. (It won't happen unless and until the financial system utterly collapses, though, at which point it'll be too late to do anyone any good.) But I swing towards doom again! You see how hard it is to stay away....

158 154 Rushbabe you have a beautiful mind.

159 145 I'd like to think that we (not necessarily CA, but the other 49) can still fend off massive austerity measures by using real hiring/spending freezes, real corporate tax cuts, repeal or relaxation of some of the more insane regulation/permitting practices, etc. In other words, we might just be able to cling to the status quo as long as the politicians HONESTLY and IMMEDIATELY face up to our real economic situation. I work in the (depressed) construction industry and my wife works in the (threatened) public sector, so I'm hoping against hope that November gets here in time and the voters do the right thing.

160

If it's an instruction manual for life, how do peopld that never read the bible manage to survive?   It seems to me the Bible deals with the afterlife. 

161 I hate like hell watching what the Democrats are doing to our country.  But we've actually been through worse and survived, and the backlash in November is going to be huge and gratifying

This is not something I'm putting my trust in. I'm old enough to remember the 1994 "backlash". That was when a bunch of newly-elected Republicans went to Washington  DC and started stuffing money into their pockets, lining up at the pork trough, and, in general, acting like Democrats. Even money this gets replayed.

162
Because, Matt, two reasons.

1) All of the life lessons taught by The Bible have been ingrained in all civilized societies.

2) Some people still need to learn the hard way.

163 Also, as financial professional, I've developed an especially low tolerance for amatuer economic commentary. "Financial professionals" don't strike me as being particularly intelligent as a group. No offense to you personally. Which is why this story (which I linked yesterday) resonated so strongly. But then I am an advocate of the Austrian School, which to most economists makes me an a priori financial crank anyway.

164 I think the economy is going to pick right back up once Republicans pick up seats in the midterms.   There's no comparison to Republicans vs. Obama.   Republicans are not anti-private sector, even the ones we don't like like Lindsey Graham, and what we wneed now is a government who does not see corporations as an enemy.   Corporations are scared to take "risks" with the Obama admin in power because they understand he's anti-business both in rhetoric and policy.

165

You're correct that socialism isn't new, but it seems as though the US was fairly impervious to it prior to the '60's. Something changed, radically and for the worse. I somehow doubt that a secure, happy and comfortable populace would slit its' own throat by willfully adopting a political and societal order that was the antithesis of the principles that the country was built upon.

That scenario just doesn't make sense.

Posted by: BackwardsBoy at June 19, 2010 12:21 PM (i3AsK)

Part of it was Vietnam/Watergate inspired rise of far left liberalism. Part of it was what Herr M was referring to -- the KGB support of an American Fifth Column. They fused together (if they were ever really separate) to produce the radicals that run our government today.

166 And don't forget, under the radar, Obama is busy populating the federal courts with a whole panoply of commies, perverts, and deranged left-wing loons. They'll be fucking up the country for years to come. And you can't unelect those assholes!

167

A sign post,

I think you start sounding like Beck when you start saying the Bible is some kind of instruction maual for life.  How does an understanding of the Trinity, for example, help one in one's daily life? 

The Bible is about supernatural things, it's not about life on earth.  That's the way I see it.

168 You do a great job Monty, keep up the good work.

Posted by: Hammer at June 19, 2010 12:09 PM (hVGDL)

Hear, hear!  (As if the book threads weren't a great addition, now you're making us ponder!)

169 Growing up in the funeral business gave me a unique perspective on life. I'ts true life is short, appreciate the little things. Family and friends first always. BTW Monty, I'm hungover. Thinking like this makes my brain hurt.

170 "The Bible is about supernatural things, " Good and evil aren't exactly "supernatural". You can't hold them in your hand, but they are just as real as that which you can.

171 Welfare is necessary. It is much more efficient when accomplished through Charity. Our great nation was founded with such principles in mind. As a conservative, the axiom the left has attributed to me (us) is that I don't care about people. What an insidious purpose driven lie that is. Somehow it is the general consensus that conservative = heartless, selfish scumbag. Of course we need government. We need roads, bridges and all of the absolutely amazing achievements people have made during the process of improving our quality, comfort and ease of life. One reason I am currently exploring the possibility that satan is involved in world affairs is that when I look at history and the darkest shadows on our past, there is a common denominator. Universal truths (people generally care about each other and want to be kind to their fellows) enable the worst of the worst to slide in under the guise of human compassion and kindness in order to unleash absolute evil in its stead. I find it fascinating to learn about hitler and his ties the occult. I submit that that is no coincidence. I also see it as no coincidence that,  America of all places, someone considering spiritual warfare as something real and dangerous is looked at by the majority of citizens as a crackpot loony bin hateful consideration in one breath while legislating Christian thought further and further from mainstream education. Did any of this poorly written thought make any sense to anyone? Just bouncing it out there to see if it floats.

172 Lincoln, I am just not seeing it.

I'd like to hope too, but a year and a half into the reign of Oilbama leaves me shaking my head. He is a fiscal idiot with no plan and no courage. This is a guy with an administration that attacks everything, including states trying to stem the tide. He is an enemy of the state.
In a sinister way, on purpose. In an ignorant way, by default. Locking up the legislature will surely slow him down but I don't see them imposing their fiscal will on a ticking bomb. Which reminds me....

Charlie still waiting for your wise, insightful, and credentialed solution...put this retarded mind some knowledge.

173 One problem with mainstream economic theory is that it just doesn't work very well in the real world. Modern economics has become a particularly abstruse form of statistics and higher mathematics, but is not predictive in any important sense. If it were, we wouldn't be in the mess we're in right now. A few people like Nouriel Roubini were preaching doom before the downturn hit, but no eggheads from the University were showing much concern. All their fancy models and complicated math showed nothing big on the radar. All the theorizing completely missed a fundamental and structural problem. Economics contains math and statistics, but it is actually a branch of psychology. It is a human activity, and is bound by the chaotic rules of human behavior. Human behavior cannot be encapsulated into a differential equation, and it's high time the vaunted economists learned that simple fact. When your best predictive efforts barely rise above statistical background noise, you're doing something wrong.

174
The Bible teaches lessons on everything. Greed, lying, loyalty, friendship, sacrifice, work, death, etc. Everything people go through in their lives.

175

My prediction: we're in for a hella ride this year; still betting money things could go "boomie boom" in a very big way this summer to fall.  We're just seeing the erratic effects of last year's bad news imho.

However, things stand a good chance of mellowing out be Febuary/March of next year (and then everyone will have to watch out for getting complacent -- because that will be the temptation after such a rough ride).

 

Nonetheless, if society collapses and chaos ensues -- well, let's just say I have a bunch of people here who would really like the opportunity to use their innate violent tendencies for the public good (moreso than they are now), made even better if there was material recompense.  So we have that going for us...which is nice.

176

Growing up in the funeral business gave me a unique perspective on life.

I was born and raised in a Funeral Home.  All the things you mention are true. 

177 I keep a Bible handy always, praise the Lord and pass the ammunition.

178 Our government is being run by colossally incompetent people, but this is hardly a new development. That's great, but as Mark Steyn said, "History repeats itself until it doesn't." I hear lots of times "Oh, yeah, but there was corruption during the Grant Administration but the US survived," and "Woodrow Wilson was a pointy-head fascist and we survived that!" as if it's inevitable that good times will always return after some loathsome aberration. I'll bet cranks in Rome were saying "This place has gone to Hell in a handbasket!" for centuries, and people would roll their eyes. And then one day the good times didn't come back. There was only less and less for everyone, so people who could left to find something better, and eventually there were just a handful of peasants living in a giant ghost town, dragging off stones from collapsed palaces to build their pigstys and patch their fences. And it must have seemed almost like a fairytale after a while, to imagine that that used to be the empire that ruled the world, now reduced to subsistence farmers. The point is that eventually all good fortune runs out; eventually, things DO end, no matter how permanent they seem today, or were yesterday. The other comforting phrase is "It's not the end of the world!" or "But the sun will still rise in the East!" If that's your standard for positive thinking, then I guess there's not too much that can trouble you. The sun rose in the East on September 12, 2001 too; heck it rose every day during WWII, despite the atrocities that were being committed throughout. So what? As Christians we should be grateful for life of any kind, but even animals benefit from the sun rising and the mere continuation of existence - I think we should be ambitious for a little more than that.

179 They fused together (if they were ever really separate) to produce the radicals that run our government today.

They were never separate.

Communism brought the Holomodor to the Ukraine in peacetime, the Molotov-Ribbentrop green-light for Hitler to invade Poland, Mao's Cultural Revolution, and Pol Pot.

Had I never read anything beyond the materials provided in my high school Western Civ and the core Political Science course from college, I'd probably believe that Fascism is the opposite of Communism.

Hell, I'd probably believe (like most lefties today) that the Rosenbergs were innocent and wrongly executed.

This whitewash may have been a bunch of unconnected but like-minded people operating out of shame over the effects of the less-than-perfect implementation of their beliefs, or it could have been a coordinated and KGB-funded campaign of misinformation.

Pacepa and Bezmenov say it was the latter and have the evidence to prove it.

180 BTW, no link yet, but China is announcing a end to the Yuan dollar-peg. In other words, they're going to let the Yuan float higher. This could be big news.

181 I guess.  I like to think most people don't need a Bible to know that murder, rape, theft, etc are wrong.   The people that need an "instruction manual" for basic decency are probably the ones committing all the crime. 

182

The Cold War is over. We aren't fighting the Soviets or the KGB.  Now we are fighting socialist ideas, yes, but that's different than saying we are still at war with the KGB.

An analogy (which, like all analogies, is imperfect):

The USSR, in its efforts to bring down the West, smuggled in a few thousand biological weapons. The nature of these bombs is that our water supply would be contaminated with a virus. This microbe wouldn't kill people, but it would get into their anatomy and destroy just the part of the brain that provides the will to fight. Other thought centers would also be affected, and it wouldn't work 100% of the time, but mainly the virus would turn people into pacifists. Young people would be especially prone. The virus, once introduced to the population, would be transmitted by coming into regular contact with infected people. This virus is slow-acting; it would take about a year to bring about the desired effects in each person. But over ten years, enough people would be adequately affected by the disease that a non-violent takeover of most Western countries would be easy.

During the global economic depression of 1931, agents of the USSR introduced this into the water supplies across North America and Western Europe. The results were disappointing only in the speed of their spread: Instead of taking 10 years to accopmlish its ultimate goal, it might take 30 or more. But as a bonus, "regular contact" could also mean over radio waves. Something about the infection facilitated the growth of dormant viruses so that the disease would spread to mass media audiences; tagets need not be in phisical proximity of an infected person.

By 1991, two things were clear: The weapon was an overwhelming success in bringing about the desired effects. In the West, 40% of the people were pacificts, with 35% of the population suffering from diminished reasoning abilities, and only a handful of people (who weren't taken seriously) ever discovered the weapon. The drawback, however, was that it didn't act quickly enough. In sixty years' time, there would be no Soviet Union to finish the conquest.

A third thing was also clear: There was no stopping this weapon. The disease was still spreading, with effects that formed anew as the virus mutated and adapted to new surroundings. By 2008, the United States itself would elect, with the first popular-vote majority in twenty years, a Politburo-quality communist without even realizing it did so.

That ends my little science-fiction espionage story. Is it plausible?

What if we change virus to ideas, infection to worldview, and water supply to culture? Is this really so crazy?

And what if I were to say that V. I. Lenin already drafted this plan a hundred years ago?

183 The Bible is about supernatural things, it's not about life on earth.

Dude, have you ever heard of me?

184 195,

You sir are full of shit!

185 190 A fellow soulmate! Did you live at the funeral home? We did.

186 unknown jane, why not wear sandals/flipflops, at least until the blister heals. You can run slowly in them, or walk for miles. I've done 7 miles walking in flipflops. Just a thought.
 
Monty, I check out your financial posts daily.  It is a nice overview of happenings.

187 Composer and pianist Sergei Rachmaninov lost everything when he fled Russia during the Revolution - his estate, career, friends, his country.  He and his wife eventually emigrated to the US and they both became American citizens in 1943.  Rachmaninov supported his family as a concert pianist and he composed some of the most beautiful music produced in the 20th century.

Stephen "Hats" Hough plays Rachmaninov's Rhapsody On A Theme By Paganini (LINK)

188 154 Rushbabe you have a beautiful mind.

Posted by: td at June 19, 2010 12:35 PM (w7TI0)

*blushes profusely*

189

We've never taken over Auto companies before.

We've never taken over ALL STUDENT LOANS before.

We've never taken over the HEALTH CARE Industry before.

We've never taken over banks and insuance agencies before.

We've never had a 787 BILLLLLLLLLLLLION dollar LIBTARD SLUSH FUND BEFORE.

We've never been 13 trillion  in the hole before.

All this just as the Baby boom retires and needs to be supported and given health care by a  much smaller working populace.

W.Bush, businessman, politician and GOVERNOR.

Clinton, Attorney General and Governor.

GHW Bush.  Businessman, Congressman, CIA director, Ambassador, VP.

Reagan.  Governor.

Carter Governor.

Nixon,  Congressman, Senator VP

Johnson, Senator, VP

Shall I continue.

We haved a cock sucking amateur in the White House.

Most Americans are far too stupid to take one minute out of their lives to consider WHO Obama IS and what his MOTIVES are.

Obama's Mom was a Commie and a whore.

Obama's Daddy was a Commie a Muzztard, A Kenyan and a drunk.

Obama's Step Daddy was a Commie and a Muzztard.

Obama's Grandparents were commies.

Obama's teen mentor Frank Marshall Davis was a pedophile and a Commie.

Has it not OCCURRED to many of you that around the supper table they didn't speak highly of our Great Country???  

His wide assed wife said here in Milwaukee in March of  08. 
"For the first time in my adult like, I'm proud of my country".

Stop for 10 seconds and think about WHO OBAMA IS.

We are FUCKED unless Republicans grow balls and shit can the likes of McCain.  We need to stop this out of control downward spiral.

190 You are mispresenting the purpose of the Bible.  I'm free to disagree with you on that.  If it's an instruction manual for anything, it's how to go to heaven when you die.  Accepting Jesus as your savoir and all that.   I'm pretty sure you didn't consult the bible when you were learning how to drive a car or all the things you need to do to buy a house, for example. 

191

A fellow soulmate! Did you live at the funeral home? We did.

Yes I did.  The Arthur Anderson Funeral home in South Minneapolis.  Only until I was about 4 years old though. 

192

185 Yes it did, and I'm no Bible thumper by any means (seriously relapsed Catholic and borderline agnostic to be truthful).  It actually has very real, scientific explanation in regards to human behavior, power politics, ethics -- that sort of stuff that will not turn the noses of people who do not practise organized religion.

And you are spot on: welfare in the form of charity and compassion is not only a Judeo-Christian tenet, it also makes good sense from a sociological view.  However, like anything else that tenet can be corrupted by people who seek to gain power, and who are, for want of a better word: evil.

 

As for the Bible not being of material, this world things: read it not as a religious text, but a series of stories and poems if you must -- there is a lot of philosophical exploration written within.

193
The other day someone mentioned Joe Scarborough's lament that conservatives are constantly crying about our loss of freedom.

When we starting looking to Joe Scarborough for wisdom...

194 I'm free to disagree with you on that.

You're free to be a fucking numbskull as always.

195 Von Mises. Nice. Me too.

I agree Monty. I was listening to Peter Schiff get bent over by every economist and fund manager on CNBC in 2006-2007. I also had a friend writing jumbos for Chase. He put his money where his mouth was. He is now a multi-millionaire having sold every thing short, buying puts geometrically on everything bank including the indexes.

He now plays poker and golf all day. Strolls his children around the neighborhood. Retired at 41. All of that success came via his cheap stamp in business via state college.

Still waiting on Charlie's solution.

196 Ah, Monty, you offer us honeyed words of beauty and hope amidst the carnage of vice and impending ruin - and then, as the dénouement, you offer us The Goldberg Variations. Hannibal Lecter's personal favorite. Subtle. Very subtle.

197 Ok, maybe me and you just have different definitions of instruction manuals.  To me, it's absurd to say there is a "scienfitifc" explaination to ethics, human behavoir, politics.   These things have nothing to do with science, and I doubt science could ever explain much of the abnormal and eccentric things man is capable of.

198 205 Kniffen Funeral Home, Wilkes-Barre PA. 4th generation funeral directors. My sis carries on the tradition.

199
Unknown Jane,

Put antibiotic ointment on that blister at least twice per day. 

200

Jane,

It appears that you are suggesting that we either must look to the BIble for "wisdom" or to Joe Scarborough.  That seems to me to be your classic false choice. 

201 212 205

Good times ahead?

202

200 I've been doing that  -- although I refrain from running in flip flops; I have middle aged feet.  I wish I lived next to a beach.

 

Going out to take care of the horses right now is a painful endeavor, and then mud gets down in there (because it won't stop raining here) -- that isn't helping.  And flippy floppies are kinda out of the question out at the barn.

203 Good post Monty, it does feel like the carter 70's.  I realize this is subjective, but I remember being young and seeing the worry in my parents eyes when the economy came up for discussion.  I hope my kids aren't seeing it.  That said there is plenty of evidence that we are floundering and the idiots in washington are doing the opposite of anything that could help.  But a little positivity could probably do some good, I have many blessings to count.

Off topic, but I saw this amazing little creature at dusk last night, after research it turns out it is a hummingbird hawkmoth.  Never saw one before, it was so small I thought it was a hummingbird just recently hatched.

204 I have a feeling Ten Commandments is one of the diehard hockey fans that saw me commenting on that hockey thread a few weeks ago.  Teh heh.

205

212

My father was a mortician.  Eventually decided to open a funeral car business.  He continued to moonlight as a mortician up until he retired.  I helped him out a good bit while I was in college.  24 hour a day gig.  I don't know how he did it. 

206 We work to live, not the other way around.

Yet, we've been sold that it is the other way around.  That somehow doing some task for some corporate entity enlarges your life.  It might actually move farther from the other way around if the movement away from government institutionalized compulsory schooling and towards real education continues to grow.

 The process of standardizing people and viewing them as "human resources" has emptied many a soul in the last 100 years.  The number of people who are living and doing what they were made to do is few and far between.  And that is a shame because life truly is beautiful when the work you do not only allows you to have shelter and eat, but also satisfies your soul.

207
Matt, man has been doing the same stupid shit from time immemorial.

Human folly does not have to be repeated over and over again. The Bible offers insight on these matters and can teach one how to avoid such situations.

208 If anything, the situation is worse, and America is just finished.

Why?

Demographics. America is irreversibly now Mexico Norte. We can't get rid of the Mexicans here, or their kids, and they are all ... Mexicans.

Quite apart from their obvious allegiance to Mexico, seen in the LA Riots the other day, Mexicans lack the IQ on average to produce anything more than extremely low-skilled labor.

America's future is filled with lots and lots of low-skilled, low-IQ, high rate of reproduction men and and women who speak Spanish, have a different skin color and racial identity (hostile to that of Whites) and are the demographic majority of the future.

You might think America being turned into Mexico is just desserts for White Racism (real, but mostly decades ago), Manifest Destiny, the Mexican-American War, Slavery, Segregation, not being Communist, suburbs, private ordinary people owning cars or worse their own homes (particularly if they are White! Al Gore is OK though)... but the issue remains. Mexico's economic model depends on remittances and oil. That's it. America turned into Mexico will be ... Mexico. Somewhere between Mexico City and Cuidad Juarez.

So yeah, America is over. Finished. Done. Stick a fork in it. Obama was just the symptom of the end. Not the means. THAT was figured in when Teddy Kennedy passed the Immigration Reform Act in the 1960's and we let in millions of cheap labor Mexicans.

209 Seems like being a mortician would be kind of depressing and ghoulish career.  Guess somebody's got to do it? 

210

214  I merely presented the notion that a person could read the Bible as a philosophical treatise if one was not inclined to practise organized religion, rather than shun the texts themselves due to one's beliefs.

It was merely presented as a choice.

211 mpfs and Truck Monkey: I once dated a girl whose parents ran a funeral home. Her dad was the most balanced and centered person I've ever met. His funeral home was in a separate annex to the house, and he involved his family in his work. "They're just dead folks," he'd say. "I've been doing this job for twenty-five years and none of them have gotten up and walked away yet." My GF's first job was in the family business. She was always getting "cadaver colds", which I found transcendantly creepy at the time. Germs off of dead people! Ewwww!

212 I'm ok with you finding insights in the Bible.  I just disagree with your characterization that it's some kind of Life For Dummies instruction manuel.  That characterization seems to trivialize it, although that's obviously not your intent.

213

You could put all of Bill O'Reilly's knowledge of the workings of the military in a thimble, not that that clueless big mouth is ever deterred from being opinionated on those issues, too.

Last night on The Factor while on another topic, though, Michelle Bachman not only stood up to his blustering, bloviating and bravado, but she made him look so foolish, also, that he had to change the subject in a futile attempt to save face. Kudos to Michelle Bachman. 

214

OT: Did BP disaster start in February? http://bit.ly/9DWS6D 

215 Considering that those who financed Zero's election thought his supposed silver tongue and charisma was going to mesmerize the entire world (that Brandenburg Gate speech was supposed to serve as his "Meet your new global king" intro), wonder how Merkel's decision affects the grand scheme of Soros and Co. if Europe starts to pull back on spending and debt?

216

22 Well, aren't you a little ray of sunshine?

I'll be sure and tell that to my buddy Alonso too.

217 The fact that there are apparently "folks" that need and want Bill O "looking out for them" is kind of a downer.  Monty's getting excited.

218

Monty - first time commenter here . . . great post with subtle variations on a theme . . . Vivaldi would be proud.

Best,

From Matthew J. O'coonor - o'er at Clarion Advisory

219

For as long as I can remember, we've been doomed.  We were doomed, because nuclear war would happen, and that's why fallout shelters were in our schools.  We were doomed, because of the greenhouse effect--overpopulation--pollution--the Coming Ice Age--acid rain--Ebola--Bird flu--AIDS as a heterosexually-transmitted virus of Doom.  Herpes.  Starvation.  We'd have to live in domed cities because of the air pollution.  All the drinking water would disappear.  Future Shock.  Cancer from cellphones, overhead power lines, asbestos.  Doomed by bombs that would kill all the people except a few yak herders in Nepal.  Nixon would doom us.  Carter would doom us.  Reagan would doom us.  The fate of the Roman Empire would doom us.

We're still here.

220 Matthew O'Connor above is what we call a brown-noser.  Teh heh.

221
Kniffen Funeral Home, Wilkes-Barre PA. 4th generation funeral directors. My sis carries on the tradition.

Posted by: mpfs at June 19, 2010 12:58 PM (TvdXH)

I didn't know that mpfs. I'm right up the mountain from you.

222 This thread is giving me chills.  I have read somewhere that Isaac Newton spent more time puzzling over Bible prophecy than any other intellectual endeavor. I also read that he also dedicated his life's work in math and science to the glorification and evidence of God our Creator. Can't even start to check his work, but he scribbled something like "not before 2060" in reference to Christ's return. And yes, he was mindful of the admonitions regarding date setting. That number of his is easily seen as a season.

I better stop before myself before I end up in the fetal position sucking my thumb while my kids are crying and asking me "what's wrong, daddy? are you ok daddy?" again. That sucked. Thank God for beer...

223 Most of the people I have known in the funeral  business are very well centered and down to earth.  They have to be.  Dealing with death on a daily basis would make most people insane.

224 "I guess. I like to think most people don't need a Bible to know that murder, rape, theft, etc are wrong." Really? How did you learn that rape is bad? Humans have a natural impulse to reproduce, so if they see a potential mate and force her to have sex with them, they've done nothing "wrong" in the natural world. A moral/cultural structure informs you that it is wrong. In the West, that structure largely comes from Christianity.

225 I don't know about y'all, but I want to hear some stories about growing up in a funeral home from our resident Morons.  So was it like Six Feet Under or what? 

226

226  I did not characterize it as such, but I do contend that many of the philosophical, ethical, sociological, psychological truisms of humanity are mentioned in the Bible -- as they are in most religious texts.  They are there because to try and answer and come to terms with those things seems to be an essential thing to humanity. 

So "Life for Dummies" is, imho, a very shallow way to describe religious texts.

227

I've been wondering something for a couple of days. If we face a world-wide monetary collapse, what will happen to the dreams of a world-wide government that seems to be the goal of folks like Soros?

It's becoming increasingly obvious that this global economy isn't working out too well. One side effect that I consider possible is that The Vapid One®'s War on Oil will result in high transportation costs (unecessarily so, btw) that just might force us to become merely regional players again until we can generate enough money to become a world power.

I've said this before, but what if a global economic collapse forces us to become our own producers again? Just think, Americans working to actually make products for other Americans because it costs way too much to ship products across the sea.

Hmmmm.

228 RushBabe -

"A looper, you know, a caddy, a looper, a jock. So, I tell them I'm a pro jock, and who do you think they give me? The Dalai Lama, himself. Twelfth son of the Lama. The flowing robes, the grace, bald...striking. So, I'm on the first tee with him. I give him the driver, he hauls off and whacks one- big hitter, the Lama- long, into a ten-thousand foot crevice, right at the base of this glacier. And do you know what the Lama says? "Gunga galunga...gunga- gunga lagunga." So we finish the eighteenth and he's gonna stiff me. And I say, "Hey, Lama, hey, how about a little something, you know, for the effort, you know?" And he says, "Oh, uh, there won't be any money, but when you die, on your deathbed, you will receive total consciousness." So I got that goin' for me, which is nice."

229 Headline of the day?

Drew strains hamstring, leaves Red Sox game.

You would think he would have just grabbed a beer and a hobo dog and stayed in his seat.

230 Posted by: johnc_recent_EX-democrat at June 19, 2010 11:34 AM (ACkhT)

I usually start with SEARS.  They have everyone else's prices in real time in the computer.  Then you get their best price and go to Lowe's and Home Depot and anyone else you want to and try to get a better price.  Once you get the better price you go back and buy it at Sears or whoever else will give you an additional ten percent off which sears does if you beat their price.

231

Posted by: Once saved, always saved? at June 19, 2010 01:11 PM (Epj2t)

Linky no worky.

232 A moral/cultural structure informs you that it is wrong. In the West, that structure largely comes from Christianity.

This is why the study of moral philosophy is so important (so long as anything carrying the taint of Rousseau is ignored).

The strictures of scriptures follow logical structures back to axioms small enough to swallow in a single bite.

This is "science" in its most basic sense:  "knowing."

Anyone willing to accept the argument that "rape is bad because it is bad" is about one step away from accepting that "rape is good because it is good."

233 Consider this: if I truly believed that the End was imminently Nigh, I would not be sitting here musing philosophically about the state of the economy. I'd be out selling everything of value that I had for hard assets and storable food. The fact that I am not doing that should serve as a tonic of a kind. Which is not to say that I'm not serious about my warnings, but rather to say that panic gets us nowhere. If you can keep your head while all about you are losing theirs, as T. S. Eliot might say.

234 Thanks for this corrective, Monty.

I type "in the end, there will be only chaos" with less and less enthusiasm these days because this chaos means anticipating the upcoming financial train-wreck and not being able to do a damn thing about it.

But this paragraph is uplifting and hopeful:

Beauty and wonderfulness exist, and will continue to exist, come what may. Life is always worth living, and enjoying. If it is human nature to be venal and weak, then it is also human nature to strive, to achieve, and to persist. Future history is not written; it is dependent on the choices we make along the way. We choose.

And that's the gift that evolution (or God or the Gods) have given to humanity  - perseverance.  If any "good" comes out if this financial chaos, it will be that it unlocked this gift in many people who turned complacent during this "dream of false wealth and prosperity".

235 I imagine the main reason your banker friend is happy is because he received his Free Government Vasectomy on tax-payer dime.

236 Economics contains math and statistics, but it is actually a branch of psychology.

At my college, you could major in econ either through the school of business or the College of A&S.  I went A&S, for this very reason.

237

Unknown Jane, while CHARITY is great.  WELFARE is not CHARITY.

Charity is generally defined as "benevolent giving".

The OBAMA's, BIDEN's and CLINTON's never gave squat to charity.......UNTIL they CASHED IN on their Government positions.

In my business, I give to about 100 charitable causes a year.    I file NOTHING and write NOTHING off.   

Welfare is taxes FORCIBLY taken from you and given to whom the POLITICAL CLASS seek to use.

238 Maybe it'll work in my name this time.

239 Monty...keep up the good work. And don't ever cave into mindless rhetoric from ninnies who refuse to accept the truth.

I never cared much for bullshit from people with no perceivable skin in the game. If you're not a veteran of a gunfight or two, please don't talk to me about officer survival.

The government and the elite started a class war and they have won. They did this by taking a free market system and over time- changing it into some mongrel inbred system that gave every advantage to them and diminished competition. Whether thru patent protection, regulation, or by allowing cheap labor to flow into the U.S. by ignoring law and thereby fattening margins. I'm cool with it. I see economic collapse as a good thing. A chance to start over. This lingering death is what pisses me off. Get busy dying or get busy living.

I hear a fish saying "catch me if you can, wicked" and so I must comply.

240 "228

OT: Did BP disaster start in February? http://bit.ly/9DWS6D 

Posted by: conscious, but incoherent at June 19, 2010 01:06 PM (YVZlY)"

Ah so you are reading those bloomberg threads I quietly posted the other day?   Yeah interesting right?  

241 "I guess. I like to think most people don't need a Bible to know that murder, rape, theft, etc are wrong." Really? How did you learn that rape is bad? Humans have a natural impulse to reproduce, so if they see a potential mate and force her to have sex with them, they've done nothing "wrong" in the natural world. A moral/cultural structure informs you that it is wrong. In the West, that structure largely comes from Christianity. Posted by: Lincolntf Largely true. Christianity is a powerful human invention.

242 Here's your yuan/dollar story, Monty.

http://tinyurl.com/3645q9v

243

Posted by: Once saved, always saved? at June 19, 2010 01:16 PM (Epj2t)

Ah, the immortal words of the philosopher Carl Spackler.  While I have high regard for Mr. Spackler (also a renowned botanist), I'm more partial to one of Spackler's fellows at the time, one, Al Czervik:  Golf courses and cemeteries, the two biggest wastes of real estate on earth.

244 Christianity is a powerful human invention

It's even more powerful than you think.

245 When I started reading bloomberg and saw those two little sentences I began to realize why the lawmakers were nearly hysterical and as angry as they were and why Barton may not be such a jack ass cause no one was really paying close attention till he said that and then suddenly everyone was talking about the oil spill.  Before that really most people were like "ok theres an oil spill, hope they know what they are doing, hope the prez gets a handle on this, ho hum".  Then the prez negotiated the deal and barton said what he said.  If Barton didn't get everyone so pissed we wouldn't be looking at this as closely as we are....he may have inadvertently done us all a favor.

246

The Black Plague was going to kill everyone on earth.  The Apocalypse was at hand constantly.  There had never been a war as brutal as the First World War.  There had never been a war as brutal as the Second World War.  Humanity would not survive the Nuclear Armageddon.  At any moment, a real Andromeda Strain would unleash itself upon us and we would all die.

I like to think my fellow Americans are as strong as I am.  I survived finding my husband's corpse, amazing debt, no job, breaking my neck, died on the operating table (only for a few moments, apparently), and am surviving this handicapped state I'm in. 

As Cher said while slapping Nicolas Cage, "Snap outta it!"

247 250 Economics contains math and statistics, but it is actually a branch of psychology.

At my college, you could major in econ either through the school of business or the College of A&S.  I went A&S, for this very reason.

The Theory of Reflexivity allowed me to sink the Pound, bitches.

248 RushBabe,

I buy my shrimp off the boat only a 30min drive I prefer to buy in 50lb (jumbo) bulk until I have plenty in the freezer, I might have to double that this month.

249 Search "There Shall Come Scoffers Jack Kinsella". I can't figure out tiny url. Zeroes, ones and electricity? Whaaaaaaaaaaa? I can't believe how smart people are and that I am privileged enough to enjoy such astonishing inventions. Wonderful times to be alive.

250 254 "228

OT: Did BP disaster start in February? http://bit.ly/9DWS6D 

Posted by: conscious, but incoherent at June 19, 2010 01:06 PM (YVZlY)"

Ah so you are reading those bloomberg threads I quietly posted the other day?   Yeah interesting right?  

Posted by: curious at June 19, 2010 01:22 PM (p302b)

This is a link to Hot Air.

251

251  Did you read what I wrote?  All the way through?

Or did you just hop on that one word?

252 I've been wondering something for a couple of days. If we face a world-wide monetary collapse, what will happen to the dreams of a world-wide government that seems to be the goal of folks like Soros?

My take is that one-worldism is yet another false goal to attract fellow travelers.

The left is multilayered.  At the bottom are the shock troops of the "oppressed" victim classes.  In the middle are the ones who "know so much that simply isn't so" and keep the rabble roused.  The top levels are the malignant personalities whose goal in life is to lord it over other people.

Someone I know is susceptible to bullshit like multilevel marketing scams.  He told me about a pep talk he attended during which the asshole near the top of the pyramid giving the talk said that his neighbor was a rich and successful surgeon but had to work his ass off to maintain his position while MLM scammer just had to sit back while the money rolled in.  This shitbag said that he could use the remote control for his TV to change the surgeon's mind.

At the time (mid 90s), I had no clue why somebody would say something so retarded.  Now I know:  A lot of fucking losers like the scum that find themselves in MLM scams are the kind of people who never outgrew the impulse to lord it over other people.

Some of these pieces of shit (Soros, Obama) manage to float to the top.

253
wait'll gus finds the underscore button

hoo boy!

254 Posted by: conscious, but incoherent at June 19, 2010 01:28 PM (YVZlY)

It may be a link to Hot Air, but it was posted here and bloomberg wrote it in one of their many articles.   I posted it...then miss 80's baby has been running with it...

i'm thinking they read it here.  I don't go over there so I wouldn't see it.  I never went there, learned on here it wasn't worth visiting.

255

"Doom, despair, and agony on me,

Deep dark depression, excessive misery,

If it weren't for bad luck, I'd have no luck at all,

Doom, despair, and agony on me."

256 264 oh shit..... they got to Monty and made him drink the kool ade.

Don't worry, he'll be singing his original tune on Monday...

257 One of the worst things to happen to the practice of finance in the last several decades was the rise of the "Quants", and the vastly increased use of HFT (high frequency trading). Up to 70% of the trading-volume on any given day is HFT-driven -- computers blindly obeying the rules set down by the "Quants" according to abstruse algorithms that may or may not represent reality. Equities aren't about the actual stocks any more; p/e ratios, dividents, balance-sheets...none of it seems to matter any more. The market moves like a snake being touched with a hot brand, purely by impulse, not by intent. It's all arbitrage and profiting from the spreads. I don't see how the equities market can survive this kind of ecosystem for long because it totally warps the signals being sent back to the business world. Just look at the Dow since Wednesday if you doubt me -- despite the avalanche of bad news, the market goes up, apparently without the intervention of human hands.

258

267  That's pretty much it -- but in Soros' case I think you have to take it to x1000 level of malignancy (his telepromptered protege isn't at his level, but shares much of the same tendencies). 

Just reading about the man is enough to make the hair stand up on my neck -- there is something altogether evil (yes, evil -- in the old fashioned sense) in that man.  Something horribly twisted and perverse right down at the core of him.  Of course birds of a feather flock together as well.

259 Soros is 87 so there's that,

260 Just reading about the man is enough to make the hair stand up on my neck -- there is something altogether evil (yes, evil -- in the old fashioned sense) in that man.

I have to run out of here, but if you don't know about psychopathy already, I suggest you read some light articles (like wikipedia-level) about antisocial personality disorders. 

Take care of that wheel!

261 Posted by: Monty at June 19, 2010 01:35 PM (jM/Et)

Oh the poor quants, they always get the blame.  Monty remember that a lot of out of work Americans are keeping themselves afloat by day trading.  I was very active on a financial board when they were riding Apple like it was a roller coaster.  But, every day, people were able to make money.   They did the same with Baidu.   I haven't had time to do my research but I'm thinking the carbon exchange open in Chicago will be worse, sort of like the Forex.  To trade currency you have to be quick and have nerves of steel.

262 I took my own advice and am totally out of the stock market, the old fundamentals for investing are toast.

In other news, the Dept. of Justice is calling the obamacare mandate a tax.  They know a mandate is unconstitutional and this will be their attempt to get around it.

263 While I still look for the beauty that surrounds me in my daily life, I'm still buying long-term storage food, gold, silver and the guns and ammo to protect it.

264 Posted by: BackwardsBoy at June 19, 2010 01:15 PM (i3AsK)

Monetary collapse generally leads to either chaos or dictatorship, as there is little left in the middle without a working currency.  That is more true today than it ever was, since much of the US (and the civilized world) has streamlined their inventories and work on just-in-time systems that are dependent on efficient transportation, which depends on a working currency.  In the event of a true monetary catastrophe, as people were mulling during the credit crisis of 2008, it is impossible to predict what emerges on the other side.

The story is, though, that the credit crisis would not have led to a destruction of the dollar, but only wholesale destruction of many companies and organizations that had made awful bets and deserved to die, and to die quickly.  But, instead of allowing that to happen, and for the economy to then truly begin to recover, the reaction in the US and around the world was to transfer the private debts and losses to public rolls, thereby making an economic crisis truly a monetary one.  What before would have merely taken down many businesses, can now take down whole governments - with the added risk that dollar, being the currency required for world trade and the stability of most of the world's other monetary systems, now at risk - heavy risk - and the actual situation in terms of the losses suffered not being ameliorated in the least (save the huge expenditure of money and printing of the same in order to just buy some time).  Now, when the losses must finally be called in, it is the government's that hold the bill, not private businesses.  It is the creator of dollars who is at risk, not the users of dollars.

We have thus transferred the private risk to the public, made bad policy on top of that (as every single word, action and policy of this administration and its Washington junta is the opposite of what one would need to do to get us out of this mess - growth and the freedom to pursue business interests in the private sector).  Our debt has been enlarged for no real benefit (as with the laughable census jobs that rack up numbers in the employment reports) and our currency has been debased with no concommitant advantage in exchange.  Our debt service is only possible because interest are down around 0% (and America's debt is heavily leaning to the short term, which exposes us to moves in interest rates).  Interest rates will not stay low for long, though.  Our monetary geniuses, in their war against price deflation, have decided that one combats it with monetary inflation.  They claim that they will be able to quickly deflate the monetary supply as interest rates show their first hints at rising, but I think everyone on Earth knows that that is nothing less than the most transparent lie the Fed has ever told.  When interest rates go up, our debt service becomes a crushing burden.

So, the super-geniuses in Washington with the IQs of 83 think that they can play this game and if, everything comes crashing down, at least they will be the ones holding power, and therefore, able to control the situation and come out truly on top.  They are mistaken.  The power held going into such a catastrophe is rarel kept very long.  The Precedent doesn't care so much about this since he doesn't care so much about taking the full reins of power.  Unlike most others, I don't consider him a leftist or marxist.  I don't think he has much understanding of, or care for, any political or governmental organization.  To me, he is Hannibal (wihtout any of the talent) bent on nothing but the destruction of the US and the West.  His buddies and allies want the collapse to seize full power.  He only cares about the collapse (so far as I have seen the situation).

265 269 Posted by: conscious, but incoherent at June 19, 2010 01:28 PM (YVZlY)

It may be a link to Hot Air, but it was posted here and bloomberg wrote it in one of their many articles.   I posted it...then miss 80's baby has been running with it...

i'm thinking they read it here.  I don't go over there so I wouldn't see it.  I never went there, learned on here it wasn't worth visiting.

Posted by: curious at June 19, 2010 01:33 PM (p302b)

What the fuck is your problem? I read a tweet this morning that was linked to Hot Air.  I thought it was interesting and posted that same tweet link here. Got it?

266 272 Monty has been spending considerable time at ZeroHedge, I see.
 
You WILL learn things there, but there is a fair amount of doom and gloom.

267 Do you remember the 2000 elections?  When the current democratic leadership, including every appointee and nomineee, clamored for Gore to be installed as president by any means necessary?  They lacked the power to violate the law, not the will.

What will happen in 2010 when they have both the power and the will?

The Stimulus Bill passed, a direct hand out to democratic constituencies.  They stole GM for the unions.  They won't stop stealing until the lack the power. 

We've never had people in charge of America that wanted to destroy America.  The more they warm up to their power, the worse things will be.

268 lol, whiskey's comments are like a fucking bomb dropping on Beaver Cleaverville.

269

Heh. Someone besides me thinks Soros is the anti-Christ.

And Monty, your examination of the current computer-driven method of investing sounds about right. In the not-too-distant past, the amount of bad news coming out of Washington would have sent the market (and investors) into a nosedive (from the nearest tall building). The fact that this hasn't happened has puzzled me for quite a while. I've suspected manipulation by outside forces, but your explanation makes more sense.

It seems as though all of the past market drivers mean very little anymore.

270

The Black Plague was going to kill everyone on earth. The Apocalypse was at hand constantly.  There had never been a war as brutal as the First World War. There had never been a war as brutal as the Second World War. 

We're all descended from the people who lived through that volcano 85,000 years ago. We all have survivors' genes.

Yours, Q&J, makes for a dominant trait.

271 Posted by: conscious, but incoherent at June 19, 2010 01:43 PM (YVZlY)

I don't have a problem at all...why did you think I did?  I am just telling you that you can find a shit ton of information on BP at bloomberg and CBS and ABC surprisingly have a lot.  And kudlow said this morning he did a lot of research and has a post about this showing everyone is to blame which I haven't had a chance to read.

Yesterday miss 80's baby said this is very complex and a lot of stuff is still to come out or something on that order...I think she's right.

I apologize if you thought I was angry or something.  I'm working and doing other stuff at the same time so sometimes my social skills go to the dogs....so sorry if I offended you in any way...I hope you have a great day..

272
btw, immigration officials have decided to 'hold off' on deporting the 19-year old Harvard student on full scholarship.

He was arrested in in Texas while boarding a plane to Boston after visiting his mother. He's supposedly been living in the United States since he was 4 years old.

Meanwhile...the so-called Harvard Faker, the student who was also passing his classes and making his grades, awaits the full prosecution of the law.

273 [spam begone!]

274 "If you can keep your head while all about you are losing theirs, as T. S. Eliot might say." That was Rudyard Kipling.

275
It's not just that the rule of law is being ignored in this country, it's that the rule of law has been turned on its head.

We live in interesting times, indeed. And by interesting, I mean dark.

276 Posted by: a sign post up ahead at June 19, 2010 01:50 PM (L5z21)

I saw that too.  And I wondered how pissed the mom of the kid of somali extraction who is a US citizen is that this kid at harvard who is illegal is allowed to stay and her kid who is American born and a citizen is stuck in Egypt and not allowed in the country.  this crap boggles the mind. 

277 I've suspected manipulation by outside forces, but your explanation makes more sense. Governments are intervening on a regular basis to prop up currencies, causing huge moves (that are immediately almost nullified). HFT algos fight each other and continually test technical floors and ceilings; once those ramparts are breached, the quants tweak the formulas and set them loose again. It's all arbitrage; it's all about betting the spread, pro (long) or con (short). The Euro has been gaining in the past week, in spite of the fact that the news out of Europe is getting worse all the time. Why? The fundamentals suck, and there doesn't seem to be any hope in the coming months or years that things will improve...so why is the Euro going back up? Simple: government intervention, and arbitrage-trading by HFT algos. This week the market is up; next week it'll be down. And so it goes, until the machine breaks from all the fucking about.

278

275, 285  I've read about psychopathologies -- I believe calling someone like Soros antisocial is an understatement; probably due to the amount of power the man has and the way in which he uses said power to indulge his psychopathic tendencies.  Sometimes it's just better, imho, to call something by the old fashioned, garden variety description of "evil".

As for the whole "anti-Christ" thing: I do not and would not go there as that can lead to all manner of other problems.  I don't aspire to attempting prophecy.  Suffice to say I think he is a very nasty, twisted piece of work who has too much power...and it's perhaps a blessing that he is as old as he is.

279 That was Rudyard Kipling. I was thinking of T. S. Eliot's The Hollow Men, but you're right, that's Kipling.

280

69 I'll tell you what will make me happy today, heading over to Lowe's and buying another freezer for the garage and put it next to the other one and fill it with shrimp, fish and meat, tomorrow I'll think of something else that pleases me.

I hope that meat you are referring to is the shrimp and fish.  That would please me.

281 btw, immigration officials have decided to 'hold off' on deporting the 19-year old Harvard student on full scholarship.

Posted by: a sign post up ahead at June 19, 2010 01:50 PM (L5z21)

I think we should deport all Hah-vahd students.  They do more damage than good.  I would just ask each Hah-vahd scumbag which country he thought was the best on Earth and then deport him to that nation.  We know that none of them would say "America", so there's no risk in missing any.

Then the school should be burned to the ground.  Let the muzzies build their mosque on the grounds that Hah-vahd used to stand on.  That's fitting.

282
hahaha, I happen to be in a Harvard building, at the moment

283

As an economically ignorant undergrad, I remember hearing Milton Friedman guest lecture, and assuming for years that everyone knew and agreed with his points because they made so much economic sense.

The Libertarians align with the Austrian School of economics. Reading the Mises Institute website is an educational eye opener for those who weren't previously interested or informed in economics. Regarding the information age, the Daily Bell equates the internet as the modern equivalent to the Gutenberg press invented by 1440, being well established by Bach's life (1685-1750, though not for musical reproduction of scores, hand copying attributing to his blindness in old age).

PBS cpb broadcasted months ago an exposé that referenced Alan Greenspan as Ayn Rand's favorite protégé when appointed. The amount of economic corruption that Greenspan promoted through his office by prohibiting (via White House agreement) any investigations attempted from within the government into the investment frauds paved and guarded the secrecy way for all that's ruined our economy and the world's economies. And now Greenspan acts contrite, and most recently playing the doom prophet as if to make amends or as if he's helping recovery now.

Of course AT THE MOMENT we are not suffering at the extent that the starving American populace did during the horrible Dust Bowl and Socialist augmented Great Depression.

But the dangers our economy confronts NOW is far greater than what FDR played and gambled with during his administrations. The US had gold in the treasury then, and FDR wanted prices to inflate, and the US was not in debt as it is now.

Keynes philosophy amounts to economic exploitation. Regardless of major party, it is no wonder that politicians align themselves to the means of greatest exploitation.

284 Thanks, 290. Now I don't feel so bad about my long-ass post.

285

Thanks for the heads-up PoP. The speed with which Obama has implemented all his wrong-headed economic policies is truly breathtaking. In his meddling in the private market (under the guise of saving companies he says are "too big to fail"), he's laying the groundwork for a collapse of Biblical proportions.

Shifting the burden from the private sector to the public sector is a mistake, as we are seeing every day. The public sector has no way to generate wealth, they must confiscate it from the private sector. When Washington finally runs out of our money, then what?

Hobo soup?

286 What I don't understand is how someone could work for the government, ostensibly trying to figure out what happened with the market, then go hide in the woods and want to be left alone and then all of a sudden you have CNBC telling you the guy is working for that gross guy?  What did I miss?

287

Perversely, MontyÂ’s attempt at a semi-cheerful post has depressed me. But, I appreciate the sentiment.

288 hahaha, I happen to be in a Harvard building, at the moment

Posted by: a sign post up ahead at June 19, 2010 02:02 PM (L5z21)

You should go to the Hah-vahd pool and start asking people about how good Richard Blumenthal was as swim team captain.  I think that would be a gas.  Great video!  In fact, just ask anyone at Hah-vahd how proud they are of having a pathological (and poor) liar representing them in Connecticut.  Shame needs to be brought to everyone at Hah-vahd, to their faces, to let them know what people really think of them.

289 If there's anyone still alive at the HQ, how about hitting the Potato Famine thread and deleting the monster spam postings of #60 & #66 and banning the IP, or whatever it's called?

290

284 lol, whiskey's comments are like a fucking bomb dropping on Beaver Cleaverville.

The most powerful rivals of the Emperor, also, have no clothes; that is why even the Emperor's enemies don't want that little boy to speak.

291 andycanuck: I deleted the posts, but I don't know how to banninate the IP. Ace or Pixy may have to do that.

292
prediction: After Kagan withdraws her nomination, we're gonna get Laurence Tribe on the Court.

Tribe, if you remember, is famous for representing Gore in 2000 being a yet another plagiarizing Harvard professor.

293

A few points:

First, everyone is an economist now...at least they think so.  This makes sense given that the veil of traditional economics has been pierced so convincingly.  I believe that using economics as a way to think logically (considering systems of reward, punishment, risk, benefit, potential unintended consequences, etc..) is much more valuable than the recent rise of physics-envy based predictive models that torture data in order to tease out something that appears meaningful.  It's only meaningful if the world remains the same as the base of data from which the model was derived.  Of course we know the only constant is change.  While there's some value in econometrics, like anything else, it can be colosally wrong especially when everyone places so much weight on it.

Next, the best way to accumulate wealth in this country is to start your own business.  However, this can be very tough and for a number of reasons many people aren't willing to do it.  The next best way of course is to increase your own earning power, save as much as you can and invest well.  Most people can probably do this but the "invest well" part is tough.  Most people need help doing this but I would say that most investment "pros" are worthless and many are hucksters, pure and simple.  The money is good and most people have no clue as to how to select or measure the value of investment advice so the status quo remains.

Which brings me to my next point.  While the consensus opinion is often correct, my experience is that it's a great contrarian indicator when it reaches an extreme.  I would say that today's extreme opinion is doom & gloom -- things can only get worse.  Because this is the dominant view, we seek data to support, not counter this outlook.  I would argue that despite the government's best efforts, the economy is much stronger than it was a year ago and things continue to improve, albeit incrementally, on a regular basis.  In short, when the opinion reaches an extreme, whether it's 2007's euphoria or today's pessimism, I want to be on the other side of that trade because it's often an inflection point.  For me, being on the other side means owning pieces of great, growing businesses that today's volatile, panicky market serves up at very attractive prices on a regular basis. 

Lastly, I come to AOS HQ for commentary on politics and humor.  OK, mostly humor.  Other visitors of course have different reasons and may appreciate Monty's daily updates.  I may be wrong, but I when I read them, I often feel there just playing into the existing mood and I don't see much value in that.  In fact, one could argue that it further stirs the emotions that make people vulnerable to the hucksters described earlier.  That said, I do appreciate today's post.

 

294

Unknown jane, clean it with alcohol, put one of those blister bandages on it, wrap moleskin around your heel and foot and ankle as if you've sprained your heel, then finish with waterproof athletic tape.  And then leave it alone as much as you can.  Put a very thick tight sock on carefully before you put your boots on to deal with the horses, and be very carefull in taking it off afterwards.  Wear thick socks on your feet and otherwise go without shoes as much as you can.  (Pretend you're Japanese if that helps.)

If it worsens, ask your doc for antibiotics, or even an antibiotic shot.

295 I think it's time for a cute animal video. We haven''t had one for awhile. That always helps!

296

Monty, one more thing. I have wondered about the sudden shakeup in the markets that just happened to coincide with the 2008 Presidential election. *adjusts tin-foil hat for a better fit*

It seems that an awful lot of money was leaking from a specific area in a remarkably short amount of time and I've yet to hear any explanation.

Any thoughts?

297
John Adams, you dunce, I think its time for a Historical Sockpuppet fight.

298 We're all Keynesians now.

299 Posted by: Charlie Bunger at June 19, 2010 02:13 PM (2ybvr)

This is not really an economic problem, but a monetary one.  The fact that the government (and many people) frame it as an economic problem is one the biggest dangers.  We have endangered the monetary system in order to gain some temporary economic relief.  That sort of thinking is continuing and only serves to compound the problems. 

The Fed's job is to protect the integrity of the dollar, which the very existence of our nation depends on, not to juice the economy or stop recessions.

300 Charlie Bunger: If I saw much cause for financial hope, I'd be more hopeful. What are you seeing that I'm not seeing? What improvement in our financial situation do you see in the short or even medium term? What would motivate an individual value-investor to enter the equity or debt markets right now? What are the chances of Europe actually hewing to the "austerity" plans they're currently pitching? What are the chances of America actually implementing significant changes to entitlement programs and our hopelessly-broken tax-code?

301
speaking of the market...

Why haven't we found out exactly what happened on the day the market crashed glitched?

Why the cover up?

302 Whatever happened to that Ron Paul audit the fed bill that they said 300 plus signed onto?  Where did that go?

303

It seems that an awful lot of money was leaking from a specific area in a remarkably short amount of time and I've yet to hear any explanation.

Any thoughts?

Posted by: BackwardsBoy at June 19, 2010 02:14 PM (i3AsK)

Yep.  Over half a trillion withdrawn in about 30 minutes, until the Fed shut it down.  You would think that we would have heard who was behind that by now.  It remains a total mystery.  No one cares.  Most who speak about this are relegated to the tin foil hat brigade, as you acknowledged.

304 It seems that an awful lot of money was leaking from a specific area in a remarkably short amount of time and I've yet to hear any explanation. Oh, this problem has been building for a long, long time. As I said before, I'm a student of the Austrial School (or at least an interested amateur), so I tend to mark the start of the current problem at the Bretton Woods agreement at the end of World War II. The problem only accelerated when the world went to an all-fiat monetary system. The system was ripe for government gaming, and they gamed it. Businesses, seeing no real profit in long-term thinking due to governmental regulatory stupidity, adopted a very short-term mentality that led to vast short-term gains at the expense of long-term viability. Sooner or later the piper has to be paid. I'm not sure if we're going to cowboy up and pay the debt now, or just keep pretending that we can put the day of reckoning off forever. I suspect it's the latter.

305 Austrial School = Austrian School Me no type gud.

306 Thank you, Monty.

307 since someone mentioned Andrea Mitchell's hubby and hill/bill good friend I can't resist posting this:  "Goblin Emeritus Says America's Spending Days Are Over"
When I saw that headline I thought "oh this person has been reading the AOSHQ headlines"

308 , didn't Greenspan take a walk right before tshtf?

309 There are a lot of things still left on the proverbial table.  someone on another site I happened onto but now can't find had started making a list...a sort of "what ever happened with this" kind of thing and it was really really long and made you think if there really is a three days news cycle and you can trounce something by just mentioning it, letting it run for three days, and then never mentioning it again. 

310 I do believe that we face a highly uncertain financial future. We -- not just Americans, but the entire developed world -- have been living a dream of false wealth and prosperity. Waking up from that dream is not going to be pretty, and will require all of us to accept many years of sacrifice and reduced circumstances. There is no other way. We really don't have a choice in the matter, and if we keep delaying the day of reckoning the ultimate price will only be higher. Paying the price of our profligacy will never be any cheaper than it is right now.

Nothing fundamental is going to happen until we hit Depression-era levels of unemployment and economic dislocation, and we're nowhere near that point. Even now, in these difficult economic times, life in America is just too good for the majority of us to want to change the status quo.

Also, our government has not yet run out of other people's money..

311 I always wonder if Ace will put up a post that will generate all the stuff about the financial crisis that hasn't been resolved or explained or that we just don't know.

Zero hedge has been running from the beginning.  They started as a blog and have grown into the site.  Can't wait until they use all that info and write the definitive book on this, problem is, a lot of it is still in limbo....

312 That's why we're fucked.

Posted by: Herr Morgenholz at June 19, 2010 10:50 AM (xnD7S)

You need to start a website.  Along the lines of This is Why You're Fat.  Only don't abuse your partner if you do.

313 Hello.

314

It's been an interesting and greatly informative early afternoon, m&m's. Before I go to save a Guiness from an icy death in front of the big screen, I'll part with this thought.

The only hope I see for us would be a serious Housecleaning come this November. Nothing less than the scatterd remains of incumbents politcal careers littering the landscape can save us from a big time disaster. Ridding the country of corrupt progressives should be the order of the day. We have met the enemy, and it is them. New blood in Washington with a real, live mandate to fix this mess we've managed to vote ourselves into will give businesses the high sign that it's OK to invest again. Only by unleashing the awesomeness that is American capitalism will we survive. Only by creating wealth again can we hope to rise above the grim future we all see coming at us.

Our future is literally in our hands. We control our destiny. We have to work to salvage our country from the clutches of Obama, Reid, Pelosi, and every other raging leftist lunatic inside the Beltway. Talk to your neighbors, particularly the ones you know who are Dims. Ask them if they're better off now than they were two years ago. Ask them who they know whose lost their job or their house recently. If they have two neurons to rub together, they should come around quickly. Letting them know they're not alone will convince them to come over to our side.

We're in a battle we can win. Our enemy is secretly doing us a favor by fucking up the country.

We must be determined, forceful and happy warriors. And warrioresses.

315 My great-uncle Stan Nitzberg owned a shoe store in Oakland, California.

The Nitzberg variations, 1-7:

1: "Only a schmuck pays retail for shoes!"

2: "Well, you could pay retail for these shoes, but then you'd be a schmuck!"

3: "You want to pay retail for these shoes?  What kind of schmuck are you?"

4: "Hey, schmuck!  I'm giving you these shoes below retail!"

5: "I'm glad you decided not to be a schmuck and pay retail for these shoes."

6: "Wouldn't you have felt like a schmuck paying retail for these shoes?"

7: "Of course a schmuck like you is going to pay retail for these shoes.  Go drop dead!"

(NOTE: In reality, my uncle Stan was one of the nicest guys you'd ever want to meet.  I never heard him speak impolitely to a customer, ever.)

316 From the Larry Kudlow article:  "Consider this: American companies are sitting on an astonishing pile of $1.5 trillion in unused cash. Why arenÂ’t they investing to create new jobs? Well, itÂ’s because massive tax and regulatory threats coming out of Washington have created a tall barrier of disincentives and uncertainty that is blocking the normal efficiency of the free-market capitalist system.

The instincts of our free economy are to promote growth. But when government blunts these instincts, the system ceases to work efficiently.

Americans do not want a cap-and-trade system. What they do want is a full-throated and comprehensive energy plan conducted on all fronts -- carbon and non-carbon -- that would unleash energy entrepreneurs and existing businesses to create more power and more jobs and more economic growth. Besides stopping the spill, this is the key point that Obama misses.

So, if BP is dirty, and if BP is incompetent, then so is Congress. And so is the White House, as far as IÂ’m concerned."

317
You guys ever go to a doctor's office and you're sitting there in the waiting area and they have that little sand box with the little rake and you want to rake the sand but you don't because you're afraid of looking silly and that makes you frustrated and angry so you take it out on the receptionist?

318
Obama says he "wont rest until the leak is stopped" and then attends a baseball game.

Tony Hayward is relieved of duties on the Gulf and goes to a yacht race.

Guess which one the press is reporting on as a huge gaffe?

319 thought-provoking post. i am, by nature, an optimist.  my polar opposite husband has often been heard to growl something along the lines of:  "there you go, being cheerful again!"

i am well-aware of what the left is trying to accomplish during their current window of opportunity.  seems like my head comes close to exploding on a daily basis lately.  the bad news comes in relentless waves.  frustration, anger, even something dangerously close to despair visit too frequently.  but i, like many others, am thoroughly engaged, like never before, in this struggle to conquer/beat down our political enemies and i refuse to go down without a fight.

i'm not evangelizing here, just sharing one of the things that helps get me through the day: as a believer, i am admonished by bible verses (such as 1 thessalonians 5:1, et seq., for example) to "be joyful . . . ".  A challenge, but, personally, it helps me.

we don't know yet how history will view our times, but we know that human history is littered with "good" times & "bad".  all kinds of people rising to meet all kinds of challenges.  [idiot-in-chief moaning in some speech comparing the "rough" road of his short tenure to the problems faced in the world in the last 60 years or so was particularly galling and laughable].

that said, i believe America is in serious peril.  in my opinion, we need to stay informed, focused, aggressive and energetic.  we already know it's an uphill battle.

may God bless the USA.  and thanks to AoShq for helping to keep me sane.

320
hahaha, Zo jumps ugly on Helen Thomass.

^{Why isn't this guy the RNC chair?}

321 I buy my shrimp off the boat only a 30min drive I prefer to buy in 50lb (jumbo) bulk until I have plenty in the freezer, I might have to double that this month.

Posted by: 'Nam Grunt at June 19, 2010 01:27 PM (9LCKi)

Hey, 'Nam Grunt!  Have I told you to go fuck yourself today?

30 min. drive?  You.  Wanton.  Bastard.  I'd kill for the freshies off the boat, and here you are parading it around like a homo in drag.

Good day, sir.

322 Posted by: Michael Milken at June 19, 2010 02:47 PM (L5z21)

not really, lately every time I've been to the doctor's office they have a bulldog behind the receptions desk and she abuses the patients demanding their insurance cards.   The last time I was there an elderly woman asked me to ask the nurse why she has been there for two hours and everyone else has gone in ahead of her.  I asked.  I was treated to a barage of "she knows why she is sitting there, she knows full well, and until I get that check for her co pay, she ain't seeing the doc.  The elderly woman said "I've been coming here for years look me up, I'm good for the money but he has never asked for payment before seeing me, never"....(I knew she was good for it, she had a chanel bag that was one of the originals from coco) 

This is what is happening in this country....physicians heal they selves...it isn't all about the money....sometimes it is about human beings...

323 The bankrupting destruction of America continues:

Cap and Tax vote scheduled for July 4th.

How ironic that they're choosing that day to end our freedoms.

324 Posted by: Ed Anger at June 19, 2010 02:47 PM (7+pP9)

Alex, i'll take Tony for two hundred, please.

325 Posted by: shibumi at June 19, 2010 02:54 PM (OKZrE)

you are kiddin right?

in plain site.....

how are you?

326 274 Soros is 87 so there's that,

Posted by: 'Nam Grunt at June 19, 2010 01:39 PM (9LCKi)

He probably has the economic equivalent of a dead hand switch set up somewhere.

327 The bankrupting destruction of America continues:

Cap and Tax vote scheduled for July 4th.

They do anniversaries like Muzzie suicide bombers do.  Recall that ObamaCare was passed by 60 wrinkly Leninists the Senate on Christmas Eve.

328 John Adams, you dunce, I think its time for a Historical Sockpuppet fight.

Posted by: Rutherford B Hayes at June 19, 2010 02:15 PM (L5z21)

Forget it boys,....I am more irrelevant than anyone.

Posted by: William Henry Harrisson (cough, cough) at June 19, 2010 03:00 PM (OWjjx)

My liver!

329 #340 Please tell me that's a joke.

330

Monty,

I'm not advocating "hope," I'm simply saying that things are improving.  As to what's improving, just consider last week's financial calendar: LEI, Philly Fed, Industrial Production, capacity, jobless claims, all much improved over last year and the trend over the last several months is clear.   Housing continues to be by far the worst segment of the economy and even that's much better than it was a year ago.  As always, lots of noise in the data but most measures of the economy are improving.  As to whether or not they meet/beat expectations, who cares?  I don't place any weight in the opinions of economists nor do I forecast myself.  Also, a good collection of data published monthly is the American Association of Railroads "Rail Time Indicators Report." In addition to rail traffic numbers, it pulls in lots of other data -- a month old but very comprehensive.  I find the Fed's Beige Book also worth reading for more of an anecdotal flavor.      

I would say that if you're waiting for the US to get its act together regarding entitlements or for Europe to take an austerity pill, you might want to start collecting coffee cans so you can bury your valuables in your back yard.  It just won't happen until they are forced to do so -- and i nor anyone else knows what that will look like. Yes, it's an issue, but as someone pointed out earlier, there is ALWAYS something to worry about.  If you're in a position to buy risky assets but are the kind of person that must wait for the all clear signal before proceeding, forget it. 

"You pay a high price for a cheery consensus." WEB

331 "If you can keep your head while all about you are losing theirs, as T. S. Eliot might say."

That was Rudyard Kipling.

Posted by: sauropod at June 19, 2010 01:52 PM (GPm6P)

Kipling wrote it, but T.S. Eliot SAID it -- right after Kipling was beheaded by an angry Bengali mob.

332 John Adams, you dunce, I think its time for a Historical Sockpuppet fight. Posted by: Rutherford B Hayes at June 19, 2010 02:15 PM (L5z21) Forget it boys,....I am more irrelevant than anyone. Posted by: William Henry Harrisson (cough, cough) at June 19, 2010 03:00 PM (OWjjx) My liver! Posted by: James Garfield at June 19, 2010 03:01 PM (8aOu Pikers

333 you are kiddin right?

in plain site.....

how are you?
Posted by: curious at June 19, 2010 02:56 PM

Actually, it's before July 4th.

Here's the link, past together, too lazy to do tiny url:
http://www.resistnet.com/  forum/topics/ reid-pushes-  carbon-tax-before

I'm hoarding food and buying ammo. How are you?

334 Fireworks soon?

http://tinyurl.com/3y7yeqw

335 As to what's improving, just consider last week's financial calendar: LEI, Philly Fed, Industrial Production, capacity, jobless claims, all much improved over last year and the trend over the last several months is clear. Well, we're gonna have to agree to disagree on much of that, I think. I consider most of the numbers coming out of the Labor Department, the Treasury, and the Fed to be largely bullshit. The unemployment rate in particular has always been low-balled, but this practice has turned into some shameful shit recently -- does anyone really believe that the actual unemployment rate is below 10%? I don't. The real rate is around 18%, and if you count underemployment, seasonal work that is likely to end soon, etc., you come up with a rate around 23-25%. As for LEI (Leading Economic Indicators, to those Morons who don't know), those numbers have been buggered to a fare-thee-well. Businesses aren't hiring and aren't expanding; employment is down or (best case) flat; yet somehow LEI goes up. It's complete bullshit. Businesses and banks are hoarding and keeping their powder dry -- they're seeing the same thing every one else is: a regulatory chokehold on one side, and a confiscatory tax policy on the other. Sigh. So much for "going positive", huh, Morons? Sorry.

336

My liver!

Posted by: James Garfield at June 19, 2010 03:01 PM (8aOu

No...My liver!

337 340 The bankrupting destruction of America continues:  Deathcare around Christmas and Crap and Destroy for July 4th?  I hate these bastards...

Cap and Tax vote scheduled for July 4th.

Deathcare around Christmas and Crap and Destroy for July 4th?  I hate these bastards...

338 Oh, and Nam Grunt, you can keep your fucking oil soaked sea bugs.

We're going to a cookout this afternoon so Frau made up a mess of last years green beans with onions and red new taters picked this morning.  Them potatoes are so fucking creamy it's like they're self-buttering.

Such is the power of pig shit.

339

My liver!

Posted by: James Garfield at June 19, 2010 03:01 PM (8aOu

No...My liver!

Posted by: Franklin Pierce at June 19, 2010 03:13 PM (0pYSi)

My asshole!

340

My asshole!

Posted by: James Buchanan at June 19, 2010 03:15 PM (8aOu

Heh hehe.

341 Cap and Tax vote scheduled for July 4th.

How ironic that they're choosing that day to end our freedoms.

Posted by: shibumi at June 19, 2010 02:54 PM (OKZrE)

I don't know if that's an improvement or not.  Bam originally thought this thing for the most part would sail through,  and then, after a few adjustements were made, everyone would be on board.  He used to have 7/4 as the date set to sign it into law, thus giving us quite a slap in the face on such a wonderrful day.  He truly is evil.

And speaking of Soros, he might be 87, but he has kids who think the same way and are set to inherit.  He also has billionaire "partners" in what he's perpetrating now.

342
Dreamers dream dreams. But not all dreamers dream dreams equally. Wait. What?

343 A new thread is a needed corrective.

344 Dreamers dream dreams. But not all dreamers dream dreams equally. Wait. What?

Posted by: T.E. Lawrence at June 19, 2010 03:21 PM (L5z21)

Fuckers fucking fuck.  But not all fuckers fucking fuck equally, the fucks.

345 A new thread is a needed corrective.

I can jumpstart it.

346 The two-tier Euro?  In the Telegraph of London:

Germany and France are examining ways of creating a "two-tier" euro system to separate stronger northern European countries from weaker southern states.

A European official has told The Daily Telegraph the dramatic option was being examined at cabinet level.

Senior politicians believe their economies need to be better protected as they could not cope with another crisis on a par the one in Greece.

The creation of a "super-euro" zone would initially include France, Germany, Holland, Austria, Denmark and Finland.

The likes of Greece, Spain, Italy, Portugal and even Ireland would be left in a larger rump mostly Mediterranean grouping.

The official said French and German officials had first spent months examining how to exclude poor-performing states from the euro but decided it was not feasible.

A two-tier monetary system in the 16-member euro zone is being examined as a "plan B".

347

As to what's improving, just consider last week's financial calendar: LEI, Philly Fed, Industrial Production, capacity, jobless claims, all much improved over last year and the trend over the last several months is clear. 

Improvement over last year doesn't mean much considering last year we were at the bottom. How much improvement does matter. To recover from a recession as deep as this one we need GDP growth for several quarters in the 6% to 7% range. We don't have it and without it we have a high risk of a double dip recession

We are at a point now where the feds are trying to get congress to go along with another $25 Billion bailout to the states. The dems want to borrow the money the repubs want to have it paid for. If it doesn't pass we will see more layoffs in state and local governments. If it passes being paid for we will see layoffs from other sectors that were cut to use the money for the states. If we borrow the money it's one more brick on the camels back that will eventually lead to inflation and higher interest rates which will cause massive layoffs in the private sector.

The bottom line is that the bailouts and stimulus didn't work. If we wouldn't have done them the markets would have corrected and we would see real growth. It looks to me like we are nearing the same place we were last year.

348 Great.  They're rebuilding the Giant Jesus.  Further, a group wants to put up a giant model of the Wright Brothers first plane on a 10 story tall pedestal a few miles up the road.

This area is becoming Stalinist in its ideas of monuments.  So I propose a stack of 100s reaching to the moon to commemorate Precedent Fershizzle, Great American. 

349 Posted by: robtr at June 19, 2010 03:24 PM (fwSHf)

I know a lot of folks think this is being done deliberately but I"m wondering if maybe they really are this stupid.   I just gently reminded a friend of mine about the fact that last year we were total disaster.  But we had way more hope last year.  This year it is all starting to become apparent and this is why people are getting frustrated.

Kudlow said take profits on gold.  Wonder if he is right.

350 The likes of Greece, Spain, Italy, Portugal and even Ireland would be left in a larger rump mostly Mediterranean grouping.

Some animals are more equal than others.  So, would the Spanikopita, the BullGoring, the Wop, the ReallyWe'reNotSpainEvenThoughWeSoundLikeItButUseLotsOfOs  and the Potato be pegged to the Euro, or allowed to float?

351 Kudlow said take profits on gold.  Wonder if he is right.

Buy.  Now.  It's Larry Kudlow.

352

Awww, c'mon Monty.  Given your intellectual chops I expected more than "Yes, but much of it comes from the government so I dare not believe it." 

I will say this, my clients are much more worried about things politically than economically, although there is an obvious overlap which is often expressed on this site.  Of course, I'm sympathetic; unlike the economy, the political climate is much worse these days.  I'm pretty sure that wealth in this country wasn't created by the benevolent fist of government mandating "fairness" nor a constant congressional inquisition of CEO's/corporate executives.

Still, it can't last forever and we and many other nations have overcome much worse.

353 Posted by: Herr Morgenholz at June 19, 2010 03:31 PM (8aOu

It's a really crowded trade.  Everyone knows about it.  I wouldn't want to be a chump left holding the bag when the big boys and girls decided to mass exit.

354 this thread has been running since 10 in the morning, Ace, please hire a weekend blogger

355 unlike the economy, the political climate is much worse these days.

Agreed. Fuck money.  How's about keeping my head attached to my torso?

356 Posted by: Charlie Bunger at June 19, 2010 03:31 PM (2ybvr)
the intertwining of the political and the economic has become way more evident on the financial sites like Zero hedge lately.  Almost all the financial sites, who heretofore stayed away from political conversations are now being forced to have them.

357 Monty has a new open thread up.

358 Posted by: YRM at June 19, 2010 03:32 PM (38UQ3)

Monty and SIM and Vic are around on the weekends.  Often sim makes posts that are the basis of a quick thread.  Last night on the overnight thread he had a lot of interesting posts.

Maybe monty should just put up an open thread?

359 Maybe monty should just put up an open thread? Thou asketh; I answereth. New thread up.

360 Posted by: Herr Morgenholz at June 19, 2010 03:30 PM (8aOu

The rest of the story:

"The philosophy is the stronger countries might need to move away from countries they can't afford to bail-out," said the official. "As a way of containing the damage, they may have to do something dramatic, though obviously in the short term implementation is difficult.

"It's an act of desperation. They are not talking about ideal solutions but the lesser of evils. Helping Greece could be done relatively cheaply but Spain they can't afford to let fail or bail-out.

"And putting more pressure on the people of France and Germany to save other countries is politically unfeasible."

One option, to protect the wealthier northern European countries and to help indebted southern Europeans, would be for Germany to lead a group of countries out of the existing euro into a new single currency alongside the old.

The old euro would decline sharply against the new German and French dominated currency but both north and southern Europeans would be protected.

Northern economies would be protected from debt contagion and southern countries would be spared the horrors of being thrown out and forced to go it alone.

Angela Merkel, the German Chancellor, has already paid a political price for forcing the rescue plan on a reluctant public, losing her majority in the upper house of parliament in a recent election.

The official pointed out that France held lent £500 billion to Spain and the Germans had lent £335 billion.

Nicolas Sarkozy, the French president, is understood to have been initially cool on the idea but has grown so frustrated with Greece and now Spain that he has allowed officials to explore proposals.

"He would prefer to keep the euro in place but if Spain, Italy and Greece are dragging him down he accepts he may have to cut them loose," said the official. "They are trying to contain the contagious effect but they don't have a solution yet."

The crunch time will come in September, when Spain has to refinance £67 billion of its foreign debt.

"If the markets don't buy that will trigger a response by Germany and France," said the official.

Expelling a country from the euro could push the whole region into a slump because European banks are so exposed to debt in southern Europe. The consequences for the exiting country would be even more catastrophic.

"The euro zone debt crisis has a long way to run," said one senior EU negotiator. "No one knows where it is going to end up. Only one thing is sure, the euro zone will change."

361 "Yes, but much of it comes from the government so I dare not believe it." It's more a matter of: "It does not accord with reality so I dare not believe it." If it sounds like a lie and comes from people who are highly motivated to lie, then the chances of it being a lie are quite good.

362

Still, it can't last forever and we and many other nations have overcome much worse.

Posted by: Charlie Bunger at June 19, 2010 03:31 PM (2ybvr)

We have never faced a monetary situation even comparable.  I don't know what you think we weathered that was worse than this.

And other nations have lived through situations like this, but not until they went through totalitarian phases and killed tens of millions of people.

Lastly, you cannot put the US dollar in the same situation as anyone has ever seen in history.  The US dollar is the world trade and reserve currency.  It is a totally fiat currency.  A hyperinflation on the world's trade and reserve currency, which is far too large to be replaced by anything or to use any other currencies (as all other nations have been able to do during their crises) is something that will be unprecedented.  There will be no escape for the US, unlike other nations that have destroyed their monetary systems.  We are not the Weimar Republic, nor ALbania, nor Iceland, nor Mexico, nor Zimbabwe, ... The US and our dollar are unique in the world and the destruction of that unique currency will be a unique event.

The biggest problem is that we have people playing with fire the likes of which they either don't understand or don't really believe.

363 Kudlow said take profits on gold.  Wonder if he is right.

Posted by: curious at June 19, 2010 03:30 PM (p302b)

Larry Mustard Seed Kudlow also said for 2 months that we were in a solid V shaped recovery. He's  not saying that anymore.

364

Monty,

even if this post had not drawn out our more optimistic side, as hoped,  i really enjoyed the intensity of reading to everyones thoughts.

thnks for thread.

 

365 From up the thread, some inside baseball:

235
Kniffen Funeral Home, Wilkes-Barre PA. 4th generation funeral directors. My sis carries on the tradition.

Posted by: mpfs at June 19, 2010 12:58 PM (TvdXH)

I didn't know that mpfs. I'm right up the mountain from you.

Posted by: Michael Conahan at June 19, 2010 01:10 PM (7+pP9)

Up the mountain? I'm in Wright Township.

366

i feel ya. yes the finger wagger in chief is an incompetent, that i think was a given. this useless prick from kenya never did anything but buy some good coke. we must admit it that mcvain would have been as bad if not worse because the leftist poofs would have bitched him up.

 i wanted the kenyan ass to win and put and end to this bloated monstrosity known as the union. we need reform and can not get until we regionalize ourselves into 5 territories or so. the devils triangle of death- DC,NYC AND CHICAGO- will not let go until they are burned to the ground. i left mexifornia off ,well you know. 

i just didn't believe that barry could fuck things ups so fast and now we are teetering on the abyss.

more regional control, less nyc and dc. lets do it one way or another. either way its time.

doom and gloom are all we have until the dictatorship of dc is broken.

 

367 A very thoughtful and well-written muse, Monty.

368 274 Soros is 87 so there's that, ------------- So... you don't think he'll make it to the singularity?

369 Gawd.

Focused on massaged numbers. Let me make this very clear and concise. You cannot pay your trillion dollar charge card with your billion dollar salary even if your personal wealth (economy) picks up dramatically and they give you a billion dollar raise.

Capiche? The bullet left the gun and cheerleader Charlie cannot bring it back.

370 Good post.

I have always tended to annoy my Republican friends, only to vote with them in the end.

I do think the gloom and doom attitude is something that has taken over the GOP, in the way that Dems got psycho over the Bush vs. Kerry race.  They wanted to win so bad that they told themselves that IF Kerry didn't get elected, we'd never have another election again.

It's annoying.  It always has been annoying.  It always will be.  We are not doomed.  We just buy into it from time to time because the folks in DC would rather have us vote our panics than vote our minds. 

Some people are willing to believe ANYTHING about Obama.  They believe he's a secret Muslim.  Some believe he is a closet homosexual and coke addict.  Some believe that the BP spill was an "inside job."  This kind of widespread lunacy is a consequence of living in fear.  And most people, who aren't fellow travellers, a) think you are crazy as hell, and, b) are too afraid to tell you because, well, they think you are crazy.

I watched a guy I know around town who got it into his head that the Census was some kind of Obama plot, an unprecedented power grab!  We were at the library.  He saw a Census worker walk in.  He made a beeline for the guy and just started ranting at him.  The Census worker was very polite and just sort of nodded and thanked the guy, feigning empathy, but he just wanted to get as far away from the guy as possible.  If there were police around, I think he would have been escorted from the place.

Now, this old man is really a nice guy.  I would trust him to watch my own children.  And I have had political debates with him before that were totally normal.  But something has changed....  and I don't really blame him for it.

I know it's just anecdotal.  But when I was in college, I had some friend who went radical, marxist or eco-freako or atheist or queer, and it was the same.  At some point, reasonable people turn a corner....  and become maniacs.  And you can't hang out with them anymore without them ranting at you.  It was NEVER a problem with my conservative friends until Obama got elected. 

I know some people are going to site this as evidence of just how powerful the force of propaganda is, just how deluded I am.  But I have heard it all before.  The planet is going to be destroyed from global warming!  God is just a lie used to control you!  Marriage is just a construct used to enforce heteronormative values!  The government is controlled by the international bankers!  And, now, we can add Obama to the list: Obama is going to destroy everything you hold sacred!  AaaaaaghhHhhh!

Ask me about it in 2 or 6 years, when a Republican is President.  The country will still be here.  We'll all be fine.  Rich and poor people will still tend to hate each other.  None of us will have enough money.  Our schools still won't be good enough.  Gas will still be too expensive.  Medicine, too.  The media will still be churning out rubbish.  And teens will still be having sex.

371 113 Herr, that happened 30 years ago. You don't eat the apples the same year that you plant the tree. It takes a few years for the fruit to appear.

372

OK - this is fricking addictive.  I have my own site to run but this is interesting. 

Couple of observations from the commenter nubie here: 

1.  Cannot stop laughing and thinking of the comment oh about 200 plus ago inquiringing who the, "Steve Forbes guy was in a neck brace playing piano."

2.  Matt X -  dude . . . are you the yenta of Monty's comment enterprise.  You have a iambic pentameter cadence of dit, dat, dit, dit, dat, dat, dit, dit, rat a tatatat.  (:])

373 "1 Your posts usually make me want to jump out of the nearest window. " The Administration today imposed a stiff tariff on imported Chinese windows...

374 Confirmation Jim Beam will be the official currency in New Humungous. Demand!

375 Had we had enough doom, earlier, we might not be in this predicament.

376

See, here's the real problem: The gov't is NOT being run by a bunch of incompetent people.  They are totally competent and are doing exactly what they WANT to do.  Or maybe what George Soros wants them to do, but nonetheless, they are competently carrying it all out.  I wouldn't be so depressed about it all if they WERE incompetent.  Trouble is, they're good at what they do and I'm terrified!

377

Matthew O' Connor,

Dude, you are like a  "good" poem....nobody knows what you the fuck you are talking about but you give us the impression it's profound.  I'm sorry you took the fact that I observed you were brown-nosing this blogger.  Hey, whatever gets you off, guy.

378 Leadership always comes from a hard headed minority whose values are spot on. Let's step back for a moment and reflect that close to three million men and women have served in either Iraq or Afghanistan honorably under some of the most dire conditions. They are returning to this country with heads high and a damn good understanding of human nature. They will lead this country out of the wilderness as they take leadership positions at home.

379 Actually that was Mr. Peabody.

380

Do you have to go to war to understand human nature? 

Is everybody in the military necessarily a leader?   I don't see much in Colin Powell, John Kerry, and other Democrats that were in the military.

381

The historical sock puppet fight was great. Even though, nobody was more infinitely irrelevant than I was. Twice!

Those were the good old days, before the imperial presidency. Really didn't matter who was president, mostly. Imagine custodial presidents, who kept things on the down low, who weren't expected nor required to perform miracles. Rather, ones who stood in the background and watched over a confident nation that pretty much took care of itself.

What a concept.

382

Matt X  pect a post. 

Just having some fun dude. 

Seriously though . . . this is a great forum and a great breather for me. Sometimes a fun barb is what the Dr. ordered as this fricking poli/economic train wreck approaches.

 

383  20/20 answer:  No, not for me but for my children and yours. We choose today the lives they will lead tomorrow. I fear I'm one among too few on the starboard hull side of a port listing vessel with an iceberg dead ahead. But I envision our children topside and free to lasso the moon. *bell ring*

384

Where is this good news that we may have been ignoring?  I get info from the NYT, the WSJ, CNN, and Drudge, all on a daily basis, and I haven't seen the good news.  Occasionally, there is someone saying we should ignore the bad news because everything is about to get better, but there's never any evidence behind those stories.  I'd love to read the good news if anybody has any. 

152 Congresswoman asks Gen. Peterus if the US is using renewables on Afghan. bases -- actually, we have a bunch of stuff in development.  The idea is to reduce the logistical tail needed to sustain a unit in the field.  Nothing really effective yet, but give it a few years. 

385 You know what's weird about all this for me? My life is going unbelievably well. My marriage is strong. Everyone i love is healthy. I'm financially secure. My job is safe. Almost every day is damned good day.

Still, I'm scared as hell at what I'm seeing come down the line. So for me, there's a disconnect. I know things are bad, but they don't feel bad for me.

I'm counting my blessings. I feel like I'm living a charmed life here. Part of me wants to smirk and gloat about the ruin Obama has brought to this economy, but I can't be pleased about all the good people that have been harmed by his actions.

If it were just the lefties suffering, I'd have a nice chuckle over it. Every time an Obama vote loses his job, I smile. I can't help it. I'm so angry that these fucker chose to put someone in office who's goal is to destroy the most free and prosperous nation on earth.

The fuckers. We've had it so good for so long and all they do is snivel, bitch and whine.

386 If you read conservative blogs - many of them only print bad economic news because they want people to think the democrats are screwing things up. There is a lot of good economic news. Read this blog by an economics professor: http://mjperry.blogspot.com/

387 Dude: Dems are screwing it up and had some help with Repubs.  The blog you shilled is esoteric akin to: " look how shiny those steam engines are . . . compared to how they used to look . . . ladies and gentleman drinks on the Titanic will start shortly . . . after we wet ourselves over the steam engines. 

388 The problem is NOT the Obama administration.

The problem is all of the leftists who voted for him.

CULTURE IS DESTINY.

Obama has come and he will just as surely go.  Presidents get 4 to 8 years to do their stuff before being put out to pasture.  If the problems our country faces were all about Obama then all we'd have to do is wait for the storm to pass.

The problem with our country is that its culture is diseased. 

389 xxx

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