1 Ummkay.  A thread about depression.  On Friday night.  Yay.

2 Thanks!

3 Sigh.  Depressed people arent exactly open to logic.  Or willing to try new things.  There's no cheering up.  It's chemicals in your brain.  Don't see how people who've never taken drugs that affect those chemicals can really grasp how much their moods and emotions are controlled by chemicals.  No matter the external circumstances or internal monologue.

4 Sorry.  I had an aunt who killed herself.  I have people in my family who suffer from depression.  And trust me, their depression becomes the center of everyone else's lives.  So, I'm not mocking it, I'm just extremely weary of everyone's angst, failings, dreams unfulfilled, breakups, failed marriages, dead dogs, cats, drug addiction, children who didn't live up to expectations, etc., etc.  In the meantime, I know people who have lived through terrible illnesses, loss of jobs, death, you name it.  No money, family.  How people rise above the impossible is what truly grabs my interest.

5
Well, he did call himself Doctor Zero, as in not amounting to shit.Its his own fault.

My heart crumbles.

6 Doctor Zero is my favorite too.

7 Dr. Zero should supplant Allahpundit,who should be relegated to the Green Room.

8 Jane D'oh, bless your heart, you have really been through it. I am so sorry for your family members, and for what you have been through. Thank you for being strong and funny in spite of it. How is your son doing? Is he enjoying life in the Corps? (no e for me.)

9 Awesome. 
I can't help but think of the Koenigs, and all of the other families left to figure out what they did wrong, what they might have done differently, if they had only had one more chance. 

10 This is a physical disease needing physical / chemical  cures--or there is no cure.

 It isolates you in your own Personal Hell and no one can talk you out.  If you don't have the sheer will to resist the constant powerful urge to die, you end your life

It  is that brutally simple, despite Doc Zero's very eloquent message.

11 Oh for the love. Cant we have some happy right about now? Like we need this shit.

12 Nicely written, but I'm afraid that, in most cases, it will fall on ears unable to hear, eyes unable to read the words on the page.

Some of us realize that there may be even one person who will lose by our departure and stay the hand. Some will try and fail because they lack the courage it must take to make that choice for real. Some will succeed at ending their own torment, perhaps hoping that others will forgive them, or not care.

Thanks for the post. Me? I'm reinforcing the choice I made as soon as Battlefield Two gets loaded up and my son and I save the world. That is all.

13 Pass me the gas pipe.

14 Hey, moki.  He's great.  Thanks for asking.  How are you and yours doing? 

15

Well, he did call himself Doctor Zero, as in not amounting to shit.Its his own fault.

My heart crumbles.

Not his fault, Blazer.

 

16

Dr Zero is the only post  I read, other than that it's just content that will be here soon enough.

17 May God help Walter Koenig with his pain, there is none like the pain of asking yourself over and over, why did I as his father not see the signs, did he call for help and I did not hear, did I not let him know my love?

18 3 Sigh.  Depressed people arent exactly open to logic.  Or willing to try new things.  There's no cheering up.  It's chemicals in your brain.  Don't see how people who've never taken drugs that affect those chemicals can really grasp how much their moods and emotions are controlled by chemicals.  No matter the external circumstances or internal monologue.

Posted by: Strangely Unmoved at February 26, 2010 09:56 PM (1fanL)

True, that.

19 Hey, what about me?  What about my pain?  How many people have to learn before I get my point across??!!!!111?!

20 Where's the ONT already?

21 Hubby came home from the 'Stan to take care of me (I was supposed to have back surgery) and ended up having a quadruple by-pass. God bless the doctors, they found all the blockages before he had trouble. He went over green and clean, so the stress there is really bad. Daughter DOESN'T have a brain tumor, which is good, but we don't know what/s causing weight loss, headaches and memory loss. Still looking for a reason. So overall, we are blessed and happy. Even more so, after reading that. I will find something to do tomorrow that blesses someone else. And the day after, and so forth. Will keep your son in prayers. You take care as well, dear.

22
Boo hoo, somebody help me connect this garden hose to the Caddy's exhaust pipe and shut the garage door.

23 Can we have some spam here please? Where's Lacewigs when you need it? Seriously, man this is some depressing shit for some of us tonight.

24

There's no cheering up.  It's chemicals in your brain. 

Oh bullshit. I'm studying radiology and working as a pharmacy tech right now.

Don't assume, douchebag. It's unbecoming.

25 ONT!  ONT!  ONT!

26 19 3 Sigh.  Depressed people arent exactly open to logic.  Or willing to try new things.  There's no cheering up.  It's chemicals in your brain.  Don't see how people who've never taken drugs that affect those chemicals can really grasp how much their moods and emotions are controlled by chemicals.  No matter the external circumstances or internal monologue.

If they're medicated & have had therapy, something like this may make a difference to them. That's what happened to a family friend.

27 May God help Walter Koenig with his pain,

I felt sorry for the guy. It sucks he wasn't able to be helped sooner.

28 Lolcats, stat.

29 Just WOW.

30 If they're medicated

I think that's the key here. Medication. Unless they are, I don't think any amount of talking or convincing will help them.

Walter Koenig's son had stopped taking his medication. His family knew he was sick and I'm assuming they knew he was taking meds. I'm sure when they found out he'd stopped taking them they tried to convince him to get back on them.

31

Posted by: Blazer at February 26, 2010 10:11 PM (t72+4)

Who pissed in your corn flakes?

32 To paraphrase Rick James:

Depression is a damn funny condition.

You know what you're supposed to do, but you can't.

or don't.

I had to explain to a friend - an actual irl friend - who was acting depressed over a long period of time that he needed to talk to his doctor about what was going on and that, no matter what my friend had to say, the doctor had heard worse.   Possibly earlier that day.

He's not "happy fun guy" now, but he's better.

33 With all due respect, Coach bags suck now. I hate them. Get rid of those obnoxious Project Runway colors and patterns and bring bag the expensive leather that dogs can't chew through. A purse that can last fifteen years, resists gypsies trying to cut through it with knives, and if swung properly, can take out a mugger.

34

Posted by: Blazer at February 26, 2010 10:11 PM (t72+4)

Who pissed in your corn flakes?

Posted by: Indian Outlaw at February 26, 2010 10:18 PM (8zsWd)

The world squaw. It took a pisss in my incubator.

35 ugh. I hate whiny stories from people suffering from "depression". We're all depressed. Unless you're insane, you worry about money, family, your job, whatever. I always want to say to these wankers, suck it the fuck up. Invariably, it's spoiled rich kids who never grew up, who had everything handed to them who have these mental problems. When you leave home at 17 and have to work for a living, you don't have time to be depressed to the point of lying in bed whining all day. You have to work to eat and pay your bills. You don't have that luxury. God I'm sick of that crap. Too much focusing on yourself. Concentrate on your kids, get a hobby, stop sitting around thinking about yourself all day, you self-obsessed bastard. And quit whinging. No one cares.

36 bacon-flavored beer needs to be introduced to a hungry, thirsty world.  That would cheer up a lot of people.......

37

Doc Zero captures the heart of the twelfth step. Nice.

38 Walter Koenig's son had stopped taking his medication.

As bad as I feel for Walter Koenig and his loss, this fact just pisses me off.  As much as I hate taking antidepressants, I do it because I know that if I did not, I would become unpleasant to live with and that would hurt my family.  I'm not sure why Andrew Koenig stopped taking his drugs, but it's clear that his decision to do so has caused irreparable pain to the people that loved him. 

39 Well, I'm off to read and fall asleep with happy dreams of puppehs and kittehs frolicking together.  Later, 'rons.

40

--Yeah, well, you spent nine months pissing in my womb.

Posted by: Blazer's Mom at February 26, 2010 10:21 PM (omtdM)

Yea, well at least you were warm ma'.

41 Some people who are given to depression also just need to know that someone cares, especially when they're not being treated well. Steven Crowder was just in a movie involving this. I thought it was beautiful.

42 ugh. I hate whiny stories from people suffering from "depression". We're all depressed. Unless you're insane, you worry about money, family, your job, whatever. I always want to say to these wankers, suck it the fuck up. Invariably, it's spoiled rich kids who never grew up, who had everything handed to them who have these mental problems. When you leave home at 17 and have to work for a living, you don't have time to be depressed to the point of lying in bed whining all day. You have to work to eat and pay your bills. You don't have that luxury. God I'm sick of that crap. Too much focusing on yourself. Concentrate on your kids, get a hobby, stop sitting around thinking about yourself all day, you self-obsessed bastard. And quit whinging. No one cares.

Posted by: docweasel at February 26, 2010 10:20 PM (kgwdA)

You're a fucking idiot.

43 ONT is up. I'm blowin this popsicle stand. Later.

44

There's no cheering up.  It's chemicals in your brain. 

Oh bullshit. I'm studying radiology and working as a pharmacy tech right now.

Don't assume, douchebag. It's unbecoming.

Posted by: ErikW at February 26, 2010 10:12 PM (UGmd6)

Such a convincing argument.  Tell me, what's wrong?  It's not the chemicals in your brain?  You can just snap out of it?  I can't wait for this, genius.

45 Posted by: docweasel at February 26, 2010 10:20 PM (kgwdA)

Hmmm.  That's like saying that everyone over 98.6 has a fever.  True, but 104 ain't the same as 99.  May I introduce you to the concept of  'degree'?

46

People who suffer from depression clearly do not deserve any sort of help from loved ones.

It's they're own fault, somehow.

47

Still waiting for a response, dickhead.

48

Such a convincing argument.  Tell me, what's wrong?  It's not the chemicals in your brain?  You can just snap out of it?  I can't wait for this, genius.

Sorry, I was being sarcastic.

49 Before I go off to dreamland (which more than likely, is filled with thoughts of my kid at war), I just want to say I respect, totally, everyone going through treatment.  I went through it myself, years ago.  My beef is with folks who become poster children for mental health issues.  My sister is one.  She never dealt with illness, death, or any difficulty in her life.  I did it for her.  Now she still wallows in complete self-centeredness she calls bi-polar disorder.  Funny how she can suddenly get her act together to go off on a trip with friends.  But when things were tough with our mother (for years), she was "too overwhelmed mentally" to help.  So for those who use depression as a crutch, I truly say, "screw you."

50

Posted by: ErikW at February 26, 2010 10:32 PM (UGmd6)

Sorry.

51 Posted by: docweasel at February 26, 2010 10:20 PM (kgwdA)

A homeless man with schizophrenia & depression used to visit our church. Apparently, he kept getting kicked out of shelters because they didn't want anyone to see him. You see, Eddie had a giant scar around his throat from where the umbilical cord was wrapped around his throat in utero. The resulting lack of oxygen caused irreversible brain damage. [Thankfully, he was directed to a great assisted-living facility that medicates him to the point where he can be a PMoS.]

All that to say, there are some people who have depression as a result of a physical malfunction. This is especially common among people who've had brain injuries. 

52

Jane D'oh at February 26, 2010 10:33 PM (UOM4

I think that's probably what bothers a lot of people. We've all seen tards on television wallowing in their own self-created problems and trying to pass them off as mental illnesses. Then they're back in another six months with another "problem" that requires lots of cooing and concern. Give me a fucking break.

53 To repeat myself from last night's ONT, it was sadly the lack of MEDS. It's simply not true that depression = whining. Read Dick Cavett on the subject. He was depressed for years, went to endless talk therapy, and finally took the anti-depressants. His life changed as a result. It's a chemical thing. It's an illness, not a character flaw or weakness of will.

54 I am the person that Doczero was writing to. no i didnt take meds. i had a friend introduce me to a friend of hers who was also in trouble and we helped hold each other up.
we made a difference to each other, and took hold of our lives again.
neither of us took meds to live through it. we both made painful decisions.
but it was a fight well fought.
we survived. i love my life for perhaps the first time in 20 years. we did it by getting out and takeing one step and then another out of our self made prisons.
i found this post inspirational.

yes i got alot of therapy. he didnt. none zilch. went to iraq. guess what? hes ok anyway. sometimes just knowing someone will miss you is enough.

55 Yes, the meds make all the difference. Cognitive/behavioral therapy won't do much unless the person is medicated.

56

mokimoki at February 26, 2010 10:11 PM (IrV7s)

Moki, has your daughter been tested for Celiac Disease?  It's amazing how many things can be caused by a simple gluten sensitivity/intolerance.

57 Hey Gushka, Hope all is well with you now. Well done in winning that fight. Off to bed M and M's. I hope you all have a wonderful weekend.

58 Man, you guys are negative.  It was a beautiful post, and speaking for myself, I needed to hear that.  Thanks for linking, Slu.

59 In a long struggle to decide whether to divorce a kind, sane person I used to love who became a petty, childish, paranoid moonbat after 20 years, or divorce life, I found this useful.  Thanks, Zero.

60 Wow. Some of you M&Ms are pretty cold in the heart. Hope you have your karma in check. Whew.

61 Im great for the first time in 20 years, and the Marine is moving in. For the first time in his life i think hes found a real home. But its rough out there.
from my very wise shrink:
"theres two types of depression out there: 1) situational= your life sucks and so you are depressed. 2) chemical= your brain or endocrine system is out of whack and needs to be helped with meds."

strangely if your hormones ot thyroid is screwed up you will feel mental but its not your brain chemistry. fix it and you may not even need therapy.

but if you have an abusive spouse or a child with cancer, just got back from a war zone and had people in command do things you couldnt make right, and people died-- its not your brain chemistry that messing you up its your life thats getting you down. Only counseling or spirituality can help.

so depression is not simple.

62 At least the Koenig got some answers. If he was never found they would never have known. He as not that far from the Lions Gate Bridge and a jump from there is always fatal and one ends in the ocean never to be seen from again.

63

Blazer is one cold hearted bastard. Think twice befor going to a meet up with him/her

sayin

64 Yeah, this essay won't turn back everyone from the edge.  Got that.  And yeah....some of the reasons other people might kill themselves seem pretty damn lame.  I'll even grant that there are more than a couple attention whores out there who will do the whole "woe is me" shtick, might miscalculate and do themselves in by mistake. 

Hell, I used to be a 911 operator.  Been there, answered that call, more than once.

But even after that, I never got to the point where I have a gaping hole where a heart should be and ice water in my veins like some of these posters.  I mean, damn, people.

The sad thing is you probably think those other people are the ones who are damaged goods.... 

65 If you haven't dealt with it and are posting snark to be a dick just shut up. It doesn't make you cool, smart or better than anyone. My mom took her life 10 years ago after years of meds, doctors and loved ones trying to help. It may or may not have made an impact but I wish I could have had something like this to show her. The thought of maybe just one more thing to try is perhaps foolish, but the thought of missing something that might have helped is tormenting. I miss her every day.

66 Wow. Some of you M&Ms are pretty cold in the heart. Hope you have your karma in check. Whew.

Nah. Not cold. Just afraid. People who mock mental illnesses are telling you all about their own fears.

67 Annabelle, sorry to hear about your mom.

68 Thank you. It's been a hard, long road.

69

And quit whinging. No one cares.

I've found this to be pretty much true. No one wants to hear about the killed son, the dead husband, the disabled kid, the disabling disease, or the psyhotic mother after less than a decade of enduring one blow after another. Silence is golden.

But my shrink is there, and he keeps writing those scripts. No positive thinking will ever make it go away, but drugs help a lot. The kid is happy for that.

70

C'mon blaze, you must have another phunny in your pocket...12 guage perhaps?  notin like cleanin tat shat up.

71 Gang.... I've been there.

Not to dredge up old shit. But...

After 9/11, I went into one of the most horrific depressions ever. There were two ways out. Death.... or Reading the Bible. It helped, trust me. Those images from 9/11 almost killed me.

I mean, I can only describe it as darkness that envelops you. It's quite the scary thing.

I'm just glad to be here... and believe me. The Bible helped.

-Pat

72 statistic, im so so sorry, but i also know its true. i just learned to say "nothing," when people asked what was wrong. they didnt really want to know.

the ones who did, actually got in there and started asking how to help. sometimes they could. Other times it would just have to be enough knowing that they cared. I have stuff wrong with my life that can never be made right. But i keep fighting on, and now i have a partner who fights the good fight along with me. but its a lonely road, and mostly outsiders dont get it.

73 Doc Zero's piece was elegantly put, and very timely.

No one who posts here (unless you actually know anyone in real life) has any idea of the trials and difficulties other posters or readers have to endure. 

Someone who is on the precipice and who reads here may have just been helped by that very heart-felt post by Doc Zero.

Yet many here degrade those who are in despair.  I hope you are never in such a state that you are wondering how you can live to see the next hour. 

74

Blazer still sucks, and Intrepid, you are right on.

no sarc

75 Doctor Zero is just wrong on depression, perhaps dangerously so. And even if he was right, he'd still be wrong. The first thing he does is tell the depressed person to be hospitalized (and it's funny how he excuses all friends and family from *any* responsibility in helping the depressed person, isn't it?). Well, between 1/4 and 1/3 of depressed people are not helped by medications or therapy. At all. What next, Doc?

76 Death comes to all of us, Blazer says "fools"

77 "The first thing he does is tell the depressed person to be hospitalized (and it's funny how he excuses all friends and family from *any* responsibility in helping the depressed person, isn't it?). Well, between 1/4 and 1/3 of depressed people are not helped by medications or therapy. At all. "

Uhm, where does Doc Zero tell depressed people to be "hospitalized"?  He suggested that the person take a walk, or maybe it would be a drive, past hospitals and contemplate what goes on in those facilities.

No where does Doc Zero say "go get checked into a hospital" in this piece.

78 71 I'm sorry about your mom, Anabelle.

79 78 ...but its a lonely road, and mostly outsiders dont get it.

I think it's because most of them have never lived that life, or so I'm told. That part used to frustrate me to no end, but I just try to inform people the best I can. Sometimes people are angry at you because of the fact they don't get it, but I find the more vocal ones are using dealing with some such problem themselves & don't want to admit it. But the whole thing sucks.

80 Garden Hose to exhaust pipe, Blazer leads the way!!!111!1

81

Blazer _ Killgore Trout.

Mayhap?

82

Before killing yourself because of depression, consider the possibility that your depression is due in part to a simple deficiency of vitamin D3.

83 Obviously medication helps for many, and for some people it's the only thing that helps.  I think what may be driving a lot of the hostility in this thread is not just ignorance about depression and mental illness, but perhaps the experience of bad therapy.  There's a lot of it out there.

Fortunately, the world of treatment for mental illness has been slowly undergoing a revolution in care, and it's helping many people overcome their illness, either with or without medication as part of their care. 

I like the post from Doc Zero.  It certainly isn't the one thing that will keep somebody away from suicide, but there is no doubt that people who are willing and able to connect with the world will find others in their world who will benefit from that connection.  I think that's his point: that these connections are so very important, not just in keeping us from making a terrible decision, but actually in finding some of the joy that truly exists in this world.

84 It's very well written and quite lovely in spots, but it doesn't help.  Thanks anyway though.

85 Don't forget me!!

86 Meh.  Life's just not for everyone, and there are plenty of folks that the world is better off without.  I can think of an entire District that would be vastly improved by mass suicide.

87 I can't recall another day when so many intramural fights have broken out.

88

Hey, Fa Cube, your humanity meter is a big zero. Like you.

My condolences to the Koenig family and friends of Andrew.

But while his heart is in the right place. Doc Zero's understanding of clinical depression isn't. Having suffered frm it since I was a teenager, I can tell you that even with medication and therapy, it's a constant daily struggle to 'get out of that room'.

89 What a bunch of limp-wristed bullshit.  Life will give you an alley beating every chance it gets, cope or die.  And all this condolences shit that floods on here every time one of 6 billion people has a personal tragedy tastes like saccharine to me.
You people are simply too damn fat to squeeze into size one misses pants and go prancing around the mall, otherwise you make wonderful EMO's, pining for your pitiful moment of notice.  Remember... whoever drags the biggest cross up the hill at Golgotha WINS!!! 111

90

  clinical depression  is serious illness , shouldn't be confused with being upset over lifes ups and downs.

 

91 Depression is not always caused by a chemical imbalance that needs medication to treat.  I went through why my (at the time) doctor said was the worst case of depression he had seen.  At one point I was simultaneously taking Seroquel, Geodon, Prozac, Wellbutrin and, to counter-act the side effects, Adderall.  In addition, because I wasn't sleeping well at all, I had been on Ambien and Lunesta--neither of which did anything for me.  When I eventually got a new doctor, he took a blood test, said: "You have too many red blood cells; I think you've got sleep apnea."  He then scheduled me for sleep tests where I found that I did have apnea and, in fact, never went into REM sleep.  So my problems were caused be sleep deprivation over the course of two years.  I got a CPAP machine and within a month was completely medication free.

That said, I'm sure I'm the exception rather than the rule.  But because exceptions exist, and my first doctor never considered it (even though he knew I was having trouble sleeping), I went through my personal hell longer than I should have.

92 Beautiful. Doc Zero always inspires me.

93

Clinical depression can be haywire brain chemistry alone. Lumps in life, major or relatively minor, can also push the brain into clinical depression, the degree of which depends on each individual. There isn't a black and white chart that can define what's truly personal and dependent on individual brain chemistry. That's why cure-all advice can't be taken as gospel - just suggestions that might help.

Doc Zero's suggestions are just that - suggestions that can help immensely or just fall flat. At least he's not telling people to just suck it up, and he's trying to be helpful.

Attention whores do the same disservice to clinical depression as, for instance, someone who screams rape when it didn't happen. Look at the reaction here from some hardened hearts.

94

I've noticed that the attention whores usually don't off themselves, but they do take up a lot of the available feeling away from those who are truly suffering.

I'm not sure that depression can so easily be cured by taking a  pill -- as has been posted above, there are different types of depression.  Some forms do respond well to drugs...others not so much.  As a person who has to fight against the demons of her past on a daily basis (plus cope with the stresses of today and the worries of tomorrow) I can feel for anyone who contemplates offing themselves.  Sometimes the world becomes too much for some people; sometimes the best remedy is to just know that somebody out there does indeed care.

95

What works is different for every person. I understand and respect Doc Zero's motivation - his heart is in the right place - but he probably doesn't understand that batlling to get out of that room is a daily battle, and sometimes the depression wins. When someone is contemplating suicide, it's the only alternatibve they can see. If you're well mentally, thank God - there buit for His grace you might go. The journey isn't nearly as far as people think it is. 

96 re: 96 John Basedow

He states is very crudely, but I agree with the general sentiment. People worry too much about themselves all the time and their internal bull. If they would worry a bit more about others than they wouldn't have time for all this emo crap. All this despression everywhere is a product of spoiled brats who've had everything handed to them who never had to work for a living and so their life is empty and worthless.

Actually, they are probably doing the world a favor by offing themselves. I can think of quite a few more the world wouldn't miss. If you think you ought to kill yourself, you probably should. Jump already, and quit wasting everyone's time!

97 and now Marie Osmond's Son Commits Suicide

98

anyway to those suffering from depression,  i pray for your healing, a good doc, the right meds  and the tenacity to hang on to see better days.

It's a horrid disease and the suffering is immense, good ideas are still good and some ideas help for some levels and types of depression.

99 Truly fascinating to read all the comments from folks who are sick and tired of having to think about other people's problems, and peeved to no end that compassion isn't regarded as the weakness they think it is.

God, I love lawyers.

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