1 Can this make my lips grow back?

2 1% seems to be a fair amount to me, actually. I'm sure you could pay hobos with this defect $100 a skin-scraping. Posted by: Ace at 06:42 PM Or $10 Grand for a full hide?

3 Oh, and First, Second, and THIRD, Bitches!

4 Anyone who has paid even the slightest attention knows that embryonic stem cell research is not only ghoulish, but total snake oil, on a par with global warming.

5

that's how life usually works: It makes you choose between one good and another

Where the hell is the "good" in purposely killing some human life in order to benefit some other human life???

 

6 Posted by: CoolCzech at December 14, 2010 06:46 PM (tJjm/)

Is that a record for an active post?

All hail CoolCzech!

7 They touted embryonic stem cell research as a way to squeeze pro-lifers. It's bullshit. The only real advances have come from adult stem cells.

8 Great, now I'm going to need a new gig.

9 The only real advances have come from adult stem cells.

Posted by: NYCcon at December 14, 2010 06:49 PM (jLXdE)

Bingo!   That's been known for a while. 

Ace, haven't you been keeping up?

10 Zero percent of the black population?


RAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAACIST

11 Ever since the stem cell debate started, anyone without a political axe to grind realized that embryonic stem cells had the same problem as organ transplants - rejection.  There are ways to suppress  it but at a high cost to the immune system.  The primary embryonic advantage was that they were much easier to acquire for in vitro studies.  Gobs of money were wasted chasing ESC cures simply as a political statement in support of Roe v Wade - the gift that keeps giving.

12 There was a stem cell thread posted IIRC during your vacation, Ace. (How Arnold's bond billions in CA aren't being spent well.) There's alot of information in it about how non-embryonic stem cells have been curing illness for the past 20+ years that might be worth a read rather than trusting 'scientists' quoted by the MFM.

13

Where the hell is the "good" in purposely killing some human life in order to benefit some other human life???

Shut up, that's why.

14 4 Anyone who has paid even the slightest attention knows that embryonic stem cell research is not only ghoulish, but total snake oil, on a par with global warming.>>>>> Agreed, and since Ace appears to be a bit late for this party, I just want to say...welcome, Ace. Adult stem cells have been the boss for a few years now. Good to see that Ace is now on board...

15

The only real advances have come from adult stem cells.

I've also read that there have been some advances from umbilical cords.

16 The only real advances have come from adult stem cells.

Actually, it's better than that -- they've figured out how to make adult stem cells from other cells and there's actually evidence that you can make cells switch functions without needing to convert to stem cells in the first place.

If you care, I've got a few links in my "medicine" category on my blog.

17

"I honestly did not see this one coming -- I assumed that embryonic stem cells would be where we got our cures, partly because that was what scientists claimed, but mostly because that's how life usually works: It makes you choose between one good and another. It makes you make hard choices. It doesn't usually allow a technological end-around the problem."

So, basically, when the embryonic stem cell debate was raging you just ignored your social conservative brethren who touted the dozens of successes of ASC therapies and the failures - often horrific - of the ESC variety. So tons of taxpayer dollars have been wasted on ESC research. Social conservatism and fiscal conservatism are necessary for one another.

 

18

Where the hell is the "good" in purposely killing some human life in order to benefit some other human life???

Makes it easier to promote abortion.

It's always about the "right" of lefties to kill babies. I guess they hate them or something.

19 Actually, (regarding my blog) the category is biology.

Proof that good blogging is harder than it looks.

20

partly because that was what scientists claimed,

Yeah, about that...

21 I'm starting a new movement.  Anyone in either the House or the Senate - be they Republican or Democrat - who votes Aye on the budget bill is doing less good for the country than hobos; therefore, I say we spare the hobos and harvest the politicians.

Who's with me?

22 No, it's even worse than that: biology or medicine, depending on my mood.

Geez, I obviously need to practice on double-posting and leaving tags open. That'll improve my blogging skills!

23

zero percent of the black population.

Freaking racist genes

24 So, a combination of stem cells and genetic manipulation is needed. If this can be repeated reliably the R&D money shouldn't be a problem. Especially since it already ties in with ongoing work in the gene therapy field.

25 Good blogging is like Fight Club.  The first rule is to never talk about blogging.

26 Of yeah, and didn't our dear HMFIC lift the ban on embrionic stem cell research.   At least, I seem to remember reading something about that somewhere.   Just more taxpayer $s thrown into the toilet for political paybacks.

27

I'm guessing lefties would be happier if you could only use fetal cells harvested from babies left to die in closets after surviving botched abortions.

28 Who's this one guy who has this genetic mutation making him immune to HIV infection? It sounds like someone won a prize in the Darwinian Mutation Lottery.

29 I thought it was common knowledge that adult stem cells were more successful and less dangerous than the embryonic ones. 

I guess we need to have monthly review sessions on news.

Is there any other major fact we need to make sure everyone knows?

30 I always thought money cured AIDS.  That's what South Park told me.

31 Who's this one guy who has this genetic mutation making him immune to HIV infection?

It sounds like someone won a prize in the Darwinian Mutation Lottery.

Send him to Africa, and offer to pay him $1000 for every child he fathers.  Get that mutation into the gene pool as quickly as you can.

32

Is there any other major fact we need to make sure everyone knows?

Don't look at us!

33 17 The only real advances have come from adult stem cells.

Actually, it's better than that -- they've figured out how to make adult stem cells from other cells and there's actually evidence that you can make cells switch functions without needing to convert to stem cells in the first place.

If you care, I've got a few links in my "medicine" category on my blog.

Posted by: Meiczyslaw at December 14, 2010 07:01 PM (bjRNS)

Meiczyslaw--can you provide a link to your blog? 

This sounds to me not like what people generally think of as adult stem cell therapy, that is differentiating adult stem cells into a particular cell type by protein or chemical agents, but rather simply transplanting bone marrow stem cells and letting them do their natural thing.  The only new aspect is that the donor was resistant to HIV and the recepient had HIV and was "cured" of it.

34

The way the article excerpts are written, it makes it sound like this is useless, on-off freak occurrence with no future. The issue is not one of getting enough transplant material from donors; instead, it's all about following up on this chance discovery and making it into something much greater.

35 Good blogging is like Fight Club.  The first rule is to never talk about blogging.

Yeah. I think it's the first time I've actually mentioned I've got one (at least here). I tend to use my linkposts as a repository, and reuse those links on other blogs.

I was just feeling too lazy to bother with tiny URL today.

(But not too lazy to post four times on this thread. Bleah.)

36 Misled by scientists who touted embryonic stem cell research...misled by the lying MSM...misled by RINO candidates who revert to their lefty ways after election...Ace, I have some homemade Valu-U-Rite to sell you, and though it tastes like piss and is yellow, don't believe your eyes and tastebuds - believe ME!

37

 offer to pay him $1000 for every child he fathers

I have the gene.  But it only works when combined with the elusive "hot nymphomaniac" gene.

38

Meiczyslaw--can you provide a link to your blog? 

I got a pretty cool one: www.noserf.com

Or you could just click on my name below.

39 In light of this we may need more money.

40 #34  Send him to Africa, and offer to pay him $1000 for every child he fathers.  Get that mutation into the gene pool as quickly as you can.

Sounds great, until a new mutant strain of HIV emerges and spreads like wild-fire through the formerly HIV "immune" people.

/Pesky retroviruses - low fidelity in keeping its genome intact. 

41 #40  Ace, I have some homemade Valu-U-Rite to sell you, and though it tastes like piss and is yellow, don't believe your eyes and tastebuds - believe ME!

That lie is more believable than anything Congress tries to sell us these days. 

42 More accurately, the name is pretty cool. I post very sporadically, so violate the first rule of good blogging.

The main reason why I put it together was so that I could write in one place, and pipe the posts to the ridiculous numbers of places my friends hang out. I post once to NoSerf, and it shows up in Facebook and LiveJournal.

43 You're way, way better off taking the drug cocktails than having your immune system totally destroyed and rebuilt like this.  He was lucky to survive.

44 First off, a genetic variation that essentially makes someone immune to HIV and Leukemia? Why are we calling it a defect? Where's the down side? Some would argue mutation/evolution?

Anyway on to the practical cure for leukemia and HIV.

Lets see how do we get a small genetic ahem "defect"  inserted into someones stem cells.
Retro Virus, perfect, let mommy nature do the work for us.

So first we need some stem cells...
Then some genetically modified retrovirus...

HEY! Wait a minute! Where did all these zombies come from?

45

Where the hell is the "good" in purposely killing some human life in order to benefit some other human life???

Posted by: Bender at December 14, 2010 06:47 PM (pLTLS)

One of my favorite short stories is "Stars, Won't You Hide Me?" by Ben Bova.  In it, the human race is hunted to extinction by another race with a more rigid sense of justice.  Humanity's crime is that it extracted an immortality serum from yet a third race of sentient beings: one of them had to die to make one human immortal.

46

1% seems to be a fair amount to me, actually. I'm sure you could pay hobos with this defect $100 a skin-scraping. Maybe they do have a use for society after all, aside from pleasure-hunting.

It's not just finding someone with the genetic mutation, but finding someone with the mutation who is also histologically compatible with you as a donor.

The key to making this practical is, as others have noted here, finding a way to take the patient's own stem cells and refit the mutation into them before re-implanting them into the patient.

47

My wife (quite the trooper!) recently survived a stem cell transplant - this is a different arena than the embryonic stem cell debate encompasses.

48 So there may be hope for me yet?

49 I don't consider harvesting embryonic stem cells as something good. Can't have a good thing built off something evil.

50 A cure for AIDS is to keep it in your pants.

51 We wish to apologize for the post made by Ted Kennedy's Embalming Fluid-filled Penis. Embalming a male body without over-inflating the penis is a fine art, and sometimes we blow it. No, I didn't mean the way that came out!

52 55 A cure for AIDS is to keep it in your pants.

This.

/And keep your arm away from dirty needles.  Simple, ja? 

53 >>I thought it was common knowledge that adult stem cells were more successful and less dangerous than the embryonic ones. Accept it's not. Don't take my word for it, listen to the Director of the NIH, Francis Collins. >>When I asked Collins about the Thomson-Yamanaka breakthrough he said that not enough was yet known about such cells to guess whether they have the same therapeutic potential as embryonic stem cells. For example, scientists have learned that the pluripotent cells derived from adult tissues retain some memory of that tissue. “Will that matter for the therapeutic uses we all dream of?” he asked. “No one knows, but it would be foolish now to proceed without comparing them at every step to the gold standard for pluripotency—and that remains the human embryonic stem cell. So it’s not ‘either/or’ that we should be pursuing. It’s ‘both/and.’ ” http://tinyurl.com/28swr4m And before you dismiss him as an Obama liberal understand Pres. Bush awarded him the Presidential Medal of Freedom for his work in genetic research and Pope Benedict appointed him to the Pontifical Academy of Science. He is also a best selling author about his Christian faith. And no, you don't have to kill babies to harvest embryonic stem cells. There are various ways of obtaining embryonic stem cells, taking them from discarded embryos being only one. The biggest reasons that adult stem cells have seen more testing success is because there has been much greater funding and virtually zero resistance to testing on adult stem cells. Obviously, this is not the case with embryonic stem cells.

54 Two thoughts:
One, the 1% not sounding rare to you, ace- you have to factor in that it's 1% of compatible donors.  So, think how hard it is to find somebody with a compatible kidney.  Then remove 99% of those people, and you've found your guy.

Two, for all the people who say that nothing good has come of ESCs- I'm no stem cell biologist, but as far as I know, the things we've learned about ASCs are built on studies of ESCs.  So, you can say that ESCs are a money pit and that they shouldn't be researched MORE, but you can't really say that nothing has come of them.

55 To any body who actually looked into this instead of taking at face value the claims of those pushing Fetal tissue research, it is no surprise at all. Pro-life bloggers have not only seen it coming, we've been pointing out (for years) that there was highly promising research coming out of Adult stem cell research that was being ignored and underfunded because it didn't have that same 'bite the pro-lifers' bonus that fetal tissue research did. It's always been about the pro-death agenda, and not really so much about saving lives. Of course.

56 I assumed that embryonic stem cells would be where we got our cures, partly because that was what scientists claimed

Before the Promise of Embryonic Stem Cells™, the big lie was Fetal Cell Implants.  There's a trend with these things, and it ain't good.

57 It's always been about the pro-death agenda, and not really so much about saving lives.

Moloch is a jealous god.

58 Send him to Africa, and offer to pay him $1000 for every child he fathers.

Actually, I know someone who is apparently immune.  That is, his partner died from AIDS, and he himself tests positive for the HIV virus, but has never developed any symptoms in the last decade or so.

I think getting him to father children might be a problem, NTTATWWT.

59 OT (what else is new): Headline story on Voyager 1 -- 33 years and still going on 1 tank of gas. Screw electric cars, hybrid cars, I want a nuclear powered car. The Hiroshima? Das Chernobyl? Return of the Fat Man? Coal-powered would work, too, if GM can't get their Nukemobile in production anytime soon.

60

67 as far as I know, the things we've learned about ASCs are built on studies of ESCs.

Posted by: Campino at December 14, 2010 07:54 PM (nCrUe)

Uh, if you're saying that the researchers developed the basic methods, then you get a qualified "maybe". Otherwise: horse-shit. Citations or admit you're faking it.

Posted by: The Dread Pirate Neck Beard at December 14, 2010 08:19 PM (wOtDN)

And if that were the case that fact would be shouted at the top of every single article that talks about the benefits found in Adult Stem Cells.  You don't think that reporters would include the line "this new treatment would not be possible without the research done on embryonic stem cells" if it even had the smallest kernel of truth to it?

61 57 55 A cure for AIDS is to keep it in your pants.

This.

/And keep your arm away from dirty needles.  Simple, ja? 

Posted by: Kratos (Ghost of Sparta) at December 14, 2010 07:48 PM (c0A3e)

You mean...take personal responsibility and avoid high-risk behavior?  What the hell is wrong with you, man?!

62 Eurpancreas- >>I disagree. Adult stem cells do not grow into teratomas when transplanted, embryonics do. There are issues with both types of stem cells which is why I agree with Dr. Collins. It's not an either or scenario, we need more research into both. Adult stem cells need to be altered genetically and they seem to retain traces of their original makeup. Nobody has a clue what the long term implications of these issues are. >>Also embryonic research has seen 100's of millions in investment, stem cell researchers are not cash-strapped more than any other researcher. Embryonic research has received a fraction of the dollars that adult stem research has received. More importantly, there is essentially nobody putting up roadblocks to research into adult stem cells when this thread shows the type of strong resistance, much of it misinformed, toward embryonic stem cell research. Altered Nuclear Transfer and Blastomere Extraction are two techniques that have been around for years that offer potential ways to harvest embryonic stem cells without harming embryos yet most opponents of stem cell research still insist the only way to get embryonic stem cells is by killing embryos. It's just factually wrong, but people are dug in on that position. What makes that even more problematic is that large drug companies are a lot more reluctant to pour money toward research and development into potential cures they know will face enormous social and political hurdles. Again, I'm not advocating one position over the other I'm saying keep doing research into both. But never lose sight of the fact that one of the biggest hurdles to adult stem cells is the necessary step of making them act as embryonic stem cells do naturally. As Dr. Collins calls them, the gold standard.

63 That man is the happiest man on Earth right now.

64

Every time another condition is successfully treated with adult stem cells, it is reported as if it were the first time. The last list I saw of cures or treatments had about 150 conditions listed. The success of adult stem cells has been around for a long time-bone marrow transplants work because bone marrow contains adult stem cells. So does abdominal fat (all that liposuction) and the lining of the stomach among other sources. But transplants are not the only way to get stem cells. Adult stem cells can be harvested from the patient's own blood. There are drugs which increase the rate at which ASC are produced by the body. They are then filter out, concentrated and given back to the pt. These stem celss have been shown to have the ability to become many different types of cells. This removes the problem of rejection. Also, placentas have large numbers of adult stem cells. When I first became a nurse in the 70's, we didn't throw placentas away. They were frozen and sent to the state department of health to be used to produce gamma globulin which was used to stimulate the immune system. Now, these rich sources of stem cells are burned in hospital incinerators. It makes me sick to think of the progress that could have been made with the billions wasted being thrown at embryonic stem cell research for no other reason than to justify cloning or to provide "researchers" with a  continuing revenue stream.

65 >>Well, as soon as you show that testing that hypothesis doesn't harm human children then you'll have my support. Otherwise you're just another shill for a murder industry. It's not my job to educate you nor do I care if you think I am shill for anything but as a matter of scientific fact ANT is a process that actually removes stem cells before an embryo is formed whereas Blastomere Extraction involves removing a single blastomere from an embryo leaving the embryo itself unharmed. If your going to pose as the authority for calling people shills for murder you might want to learn a little for yourself, gives you claims more credence that way. These things are not new and demonstrate the great lengths that scientists are taking to obtain what remains the most promising building block for a wide variety of therapies in the least destructive means possible. You should do some research instead of just slinging insults.

66

but as far as I know, the things we've learned about ASCs are built on studies of ESCs.

Exactly what I've been saying!

67 my understanding of it was that this guy was given his immune system reboot (bone marrow transplant) by a guy who has the HIV immunity. then it kind of becomes a no-brainer... if the person gets an hiv-resistant immune system, then hiv can't cause an immunodeficiency. seems like a "duhh" moment to me.

68 The embryonic stem cells that are so popular with practitioners of the atheist faith always lead to massive tumors.

69 #64

That is not unusual. Such cases have been known since HIV was first identified, in that people who had not had a potential exposure in several years tested positive and eventually became ill. These were mostly blood recipients who were tracked down and some ex-junkies.

A lengthy asymptomatic period is one of the reasons the disease seemed to spring up so quickly in big cities despite not being transmitted by casual contact.

#70

That is containment, not cure. By 1986 the politicization of AIDS was well advanced, making such an idea unworkable. The only thing that might have made it happen was serious outbreaks among the heterosexual, non-drug abusing population. This never happened despite the propaganda claiming it was just around the corner. Which is probably just as well as things would have gotten pretty ugly if the general population felt themselves to be under direct life and death threat by the behavior of a minority.

Imagine if there had been no foreign location like Afghanistan hosting Al Qaeda leaders to strike against after 9/11.

70 I'd be more impressed with the potential value of fetal stem cell research if they were doing it with cow or swine fetae; ie. more interested in the research than social engineering.  Animal research has NEVER been denied funding.

71 >>As a matter of scientific fact, wikipedia doesn't count as a valid citation & people who don't show their work are full of shit. You have no idea what you're talking about, do you? You just fling insults, assuming everyone is as uniformed as you are. That's the problem with the rapidly uniformed spawn of Limbaugh and Palin, they assume everyone is knows as little as they do. You've shown absolutely nothing, yet you presume to question my knowledge? Go eat a dick.

72 That's the problem with the rapidly uniformed spawn of Limbaugh and Palin, they assume everyone is knows as little as they do.

Eh?

73 rapidly uniformed

It's a jumpsuit.

74 Embryonic Stem Cell Research is nothing but a pander to the abortionists.

It was a way to for baby killer advocates to scream "Sciiiiiiiiiiiiiiience" at pro-lifers when the science was nothing politics.

Science is on the side of those dreaded social conservatives.  Again.

On another note....

75 nothing *but politics

76 I can't believe Christopher Reeve is walking yet!

77 isn't walking - sheesh - isn't walking!

grief will make you sloppy

78 >>Sure, research them both. There is nothing natural about ESC's, and that is OK. Most of medicine is not natural. You still havent addressed the teratomas. That is the number one issue. This is why I don't bother posting more links, nobody actually reads them. Scroll up and read the link I posted up above about adult stem cells. In order for them to even be relevant they have to be reprogrammed to act like embryonics, to be pluripotent, and so far that requires using either a retrovirus or an adenovirus and nobody has any fucking idea what that mean long term. In addition, as I said above, reprogrammed adult stem cells still retain the imprint of their original DNA and again, nobody has any idea what that mean long term. Nobody has any fucking idea what any of this mean long term and argue otherwise is idiotic. It's as dumb as reflexively repeating that embryonic research means killing babies when it has never meant that but it sounds good to virulent pro-lifers who never look beyond sound bites. There is no right answer yet as any researcher into this will tell you because they just don't know. But the do know that closing doors at this point is idiotic. Why is looking at both options a bad thing?

79 Sangamo Biosciences is running 3 FDA approved human trails that are testing this very concept using gene therapy. They are deleting the CCR5 gene outside the body and reinfusing the patients own t-cells. Data on one patient has been presented and additional data will be presented at CROI. They are also testing modifying stem cells in non-human primates at the current time.

80 Be honest, at least part of the reason you figured embryonic stem cells would be the future was because all the "right" people were behind them and all those icky social conservatives were against them.

81 Jackstraw: because we don't need to use embryonic cells to look into that side. As you note, you can use adult stem cells for the same sort of research.

But I agree, you don't have to murder babies to do the research, there's plenty of embryonic stem cells in the placenta from every birth in the US, of which thousands take place a day.