1 First!!!!

2 Look, this works as long as you believe that the lefty hive-mind functions like an individual with things like will and self-direction. Pick apart that metaphor, however, and see how far you get. The hive-mind is comprised of hundreds of little drones who DO possess a fundamental survival instinct.

3 My brain is having a fucking nuclear meltdown...China ObamaCare Syndrome

4 Once you create a government program, it never goes away.  Once you give people the option to depend on the government for something, self-reliance evaporates.  We are doomed.

5 Democrats ram it in, Republicans ram it out. And now you know why democracies are so unstable.

Who wants to take credit for ruining America.

We should start with repeal of the 17th Amendment, give the States back their voice.

6 Today's Democrats are controlled by the radical Left, and it is more important to them to execute the permanent transformation of American society than it is to win the upcoming election cycles.

That's true for the leadership but I don't think it's true all the way down the line. If it were, they would have passed it long ago. The delay isn't because of Republicans but Democrats couldn't get together amongst themselves.

Yes, Nancy Pelosi and about 100 or so Congressmen for life from lefty districts are wiling to fight to the last "moderate" is dead. The question really is how many of non hardcore types are willing to walk the plank?

Based on recent behavior, not enough for Nancy and the rest of the Democratic Vanguard.

7

If Obama had the votes, they would have done it already.

8 If that's true, then why didn't they pass it last summer?

9 In the Democrat leadership, we are not dealing with conventional politicians for whom the goal of being reelected is paramount and will rein in their radicalism.

But the Democrat "leadership" doesn't necessarily make the difference. In fact I'd say it's far from making the difference.

the next six weeks, like the next ten months, are going to be worse than we think.

For Dems.

10
Andy is wrong.

11 Never underestimate the power of a Congressman's selfish interests.  Are they really going to find that many people to fall on their swords?  I doubt it.

12 damn Drew: Jinx!

13 The most difficult hurdle, however, will be getting the Blue Dogs to vote for the Senate bill without Stupak's abortion language.

Good luck Speaker McBotox.  Your "400,000 immediate new jobs" is a really tough sell in their districts.

14 It was like republicans before they lost Congress. They loaded up bills with pork even when the signs signaled doom. They kept at it right to the end.

15 I don't  think they are looking at the infinite amendments in the right way.
The amendments need not be silly or divisive. Since the reconciliation process is meant for budget issues then as long as the ammendment is budget related there is little the leadership can do to stop a vote. The R's should already have, if not get fast, a list of the top 1000 programs they would like to cut., right down to $50 for new mouse pads in the NEA, and offer each as a separate ammendment to offset the cost of the Health Care bill itself.

16 11: also, back in the Fall, before the beatdowns the Dems and this bill have taken, it was already unpopular, and Rahmbo was threatening Blue Dogs with the choice of a primary opponent or a post defeat lobbying job. I know Lincoln (Ark) has a challenger now, but not too many others have come forward yet. And I really wonder if Rahm still has the oomph he did a few months ago, or if the jobs just aren't there.

17 Oh, a small note: Unemployment numbers come out this Friday.  I predict chaos based on the trend of other numbers.

18

The R's should already have, if not get fast, a list of the top 1000 programs they would like to cut., right down to $50 for new mouse pads in the NEA, and offer each as a separate ammendment to offset the cost of the Health Care bill itself.

Can they do that? Can you put an amendment in cutting funding completely to the Department of Education or Energy? Don't they have to vote on every amendment?

19 another problem with the infinite Amendment idea is that we have Mitch McConnell, who has not exactly been combative in this deal

20
Keep adding amendments until next November.

21

There is no such thing as a Blue Dog anymore. Most of them have seen the writing on the wall with their past votes on the stimulus and cap and tax. They have no chance at winning any longer.

So what the fuck? They have nothing to lose. Their votes, in many cases, will be for retribution...against the Tea Party.

22 Rahmbo was threatening Blue Dogs with the choice of a primary opponent or a post defeat lobbying job

If I were a House member, I wouldn't bet on the fact that Rahm would deliver on that job.  Based on the height of the Obama bus, Rahm and Obama would conveniently forget their promise after the ousted House member can't give them anything.

No honor among thieves, donchaknow.

23 All of the recent hand wringing on the left and in the MSM (birm) over "is government broken" miss the point, IMO.  Government is only broken because American is broken. 

We are fast approaching the tipping point where two non-compatible views of everyday life are going to collide.  Statist-style socialism vs free-market capitalism.  Do you really think the main coalition on either side is going to back down?  Do you really think the right will sit back and accept socialized medicine or cap-n-tax.  And if we push back hard enough, do you see the left letting us repeal any of their socialist utopia without dire consequences?

The tipping point is coming and it's gonna get ugly. 

24

Once you create a government program, it never goes away.  Once you give people the option to depend on the government for something, self-reliance evaporates. 

I think that is is big and bad enough that there would be at least some roll back before anything but the tax increases even actually happened.

The Tea Parties were the first stage. Next we'll have former small business owners running for political office, determined to roll back every gov't program in sight.

25

They will put their heads down and go for as much transformation as they can get, figuring that once they get it,it will never be rolled back.

That is plain scary because it is true.

As for infinite amendments, I don't think that will be the major delaying tactic. The major Republican strategy will be for each Senator to offer an objection to a line in the bill that is "not applicable" to budget reconciliation. The Senate chair then rules on the objection and if he rules against the Senator, the Senator can then call for a vote to override.

Since the current bill is 2,000 pp long there are a lot of lines that can be protested. They could hold this thing up until after the election. 

Also, as somone said the other day in a separate post about DeMint, there is no bill on the floor that can be offered up for reconcilliation.  

26
That would be so awesome if the Democrats try to pass Cap & Trade after they ram this through.

We need all the help we can get to take back the House. If the Democrats keep acting like Democrats, we can win...even if the Republicans continue to sit on their thumbs during this election season.

27

Can they do that? Can you put an amendment in cutting funding completely to the Department of Education or Energy? Don't they have to vote on every amendment?

Posted by: Dack Thrombosis at March 01, 2010 01:50 PM (P33XN)

Eliminating a whole department is a bit drastic and divisive. I was think more along the line of line item things. Like they did with getting rid of the Bridge to Nowhere. Each small amendment will eat up time and I think some will pass as most only got through because they were buried in another bill.

28 "...and it is more important to them to execute the permanent transformation of American society than it is to win the upcoming election cycles. They have already factored in losing in November — even losing big."

So essentially, they are the political equivalent of a Jihadist suicide bomber.  They're already embracing their own death for the advancement of the cause and the punishment of their enemies.  Fear of political death, like fear of death for the Jihadist, is non-existent.

If that's the case, I feel very, very sorry for Pelosi's seventy virgins in political Hell.

29 My fear, and I feel it's well founded,is that the Republicans will never
present a united front to stop this, ultimately.

They lack the  will to  endure the withering  assault by the Dem/MSM axis.

There are too many Republicans that just want to play the game and keep
their cushy jobs.

30
hahahaha @ the new 'Coffee' party

What a fucking joke. They might as well call themselves the Starbuck's Coffee Party.

31 I hope this does not pass but if it does it may have a chance to be repealed. Due to the fact the Dems don't have it writing checks until well after the next election.

32

There is no such thing as a Blue Dog anymore.

Was there ever?  Blue Dog is a myth put out by the MSM.  They called some of the Dems from purple States "moderate" but when you look at their ACU rating it is below 20.

I call that liberal.

33

I agree with the central premise of the post with this one caveat; The Republicans are either too stupid to look at the wall to read what is written on it, or they are too content with their futures vis-a-vis the dem suicide bomber mentality to actually take the action needed to forestall the leftist dismantlement of the country, or they could give a crap less what happens to the country as long as they get theirs.  By-in-large, the Republicans in congress go along to get along when what these times call for (imio) is a return to the times when politicians felt stongly enough of their convictions that they were willing to demand some pretty definitive satisfaction if someone had the audacity to question them (metaphorically speaking, in today's case.  Of course a duel might provide some real stimulus.  Just sayin')

34 30: that is what has made the refusal of Susan Collins and Olympia Snowe to flip even more remarkable.

35

Also, as somone said the other day in a separate post about DeMint, there is no bill on the floor that can be offered up for reconcilliation.  

Posted by: Vic at March 01, 2010 01:55 PM (QrA9E)

True, until the Senate bill has been voted on and passed byt the House, along with Obama's signature. there is nothing to be done. You can't reconcile something which doesn't exist yet.

36

Not all Democrats are of the kamikaze left.  That has been the problem with ObamaCare all along - the radical Democrat leadership can't get enough Democrat members to enact this.  And calling for all of them to die on this hill?  I am sure that is going to go over real well.

37 Oh, a small note: Unemployment numbers come out this Friday.  I predict chaos based on the trend of other numbers.

Posted by: AmishDude at March 01, 2010 01:50 PM (T0NGe)

Whatever it is, I'm sure it will be 'unexpected'.

38 They're legislative suicide bombers.  The legislative terrorism planners don't care about foot soldier splodydopes who'll be getting greased in November.

39

I agree with FUBAR!

I think many of the perceived Radical Left Politicians have realized that this is going beyond politics. They are starting to learn and understand that their families will be affected. Even though many politicians are wealthy and live in a bubble, they still are not part of the "Elite" sub-culture that controls the economy here and in Europe and I believe that many of these (D) politicans are merely offereing lip service, becuase they know their base is Bat-Shit Crazy, but when it comes to putting the last Silver Bullet in the heart of the Capitalist System they are going to find a way politically to not be a part of it.

One has to ask themself:

How many of them are Evil, and how many of them are just Idealistic & Emotional, but can be convinced to come to their senses?  

40 I don't believe McCarthy's thought this all the way through.  Should the Dems be stupid enough to force this bill thru via reconciliation, MOST of the bill WILL NOT pass.  Reconciliation only can be used for budgetary matters.  What's Reid going to do, go full bore on everything?  HE CAN'T!

There is also the backlash from the public.  The Dems will be thrown out, and anyone replacing them will be with the understanding that the entire bill be thrown out.

What's the advantage to the Democrats to being thrown out of office and the next Congress totally gutting their "Signature" bill?

41 Once you create a government program, it never goes away.

Newsletter?

42

Rahmbo was threatening Blue Dogs with the choice of a primary opponent or a post defeat lobbying job. I know Lincoln (Ark) has a challenger now, but not too many others have come forward yet.

So you vote against the bill and they come up with a primary opponent who favors the oh-so-unpopular bill?

Shaking in their boots? Perhaps not.

43 Yo Democrats:  Drop Obamacare - and watch your poll numbers go back up.  Proceed, and you will have to face the consequences.  75% of us don't want 2700+ pages of government controlled "reform" garbage.  You lie about the cost.

Posted by: Lemon Kitten at March 01, 2010 01:30 PM (0fzsA)

It's not about overall poll numbers.  It's about keeping their base energized.  Without their core supporters, no one will contribute to their campaigns, no one will walk precincts for them... so they have to protect the base.

It was easier to do this when they were not in power: they could pretend to be centrists and wink to their core supporters that they would drop the act once they were in power.  But now their base expects them to deliver, and can't understand why, with a big House majority, 60 votes in the Senate and the Presidency on their side, Pelosi and Reid have delivered practically nothing for the Progressive agenda but more promises.  And if they couldn't deliver on their promises at the peak of their power in 2009, how are they going to be better able to do it in the decline of 2010?

44

I am still worried just because I know how radical these dems are and I put nothing past them. The conservatives have won the political argument, and the argument with the public, and in years past that would have been more than enough to stop this bill. These dems are so radical, they do not care about that though. They do not care about the public.

I will only celebrate when this bill is burned, and they bury the ashes under 100 tons of concrete.

45

Pelosi issues new statement regarding reconciliation.

46

I don't think the Dem leadership can overcome the ego and self-interest that got so many of these Senators into political careers in the first place.  Can't overcome it in enough of them, anyway.  And there you go - this stymies the development of a herd belief that they're actually going to pull it off.

As a commenter noted above regarding the "fall on your sword and lose your seat, get some other lucrative career in return" model -- like any other currency, that deal requires full faith and trust in order to function -- and who says the jobs are really going to be there as promised? The rapid erosion in perceived power that is occurring isn't just about legislation per se - it is about the belief that the administration and Dem leadership will actually have the juice to deliver on that sort of commitment. And by "commitment," I mean "bribe."

 

47 I'm sorry, but what qualifies Andy McCarthy to right on this subject again? He is a former DOJ Asst. Atty General who made his reputation prosecuting the first WTC bomber. He knows exactly bupkis about political mechanics. When Barone weighs in, I will listen. Until then, McCarthy and all the other weenies at NRO can live off the dwindling coffers of the Buckley fortune.

48 hahahaha @ the new 'Coffee' party

The Hot Coffee Mob?

49 Until then, McCarthy and all the other weenies at NRO can live off the dwindling coffers of the Buckley fortune.

Posted by: Fresh Air at March 01, 2010 02:05 PM (gJV9g)

Not a fan of NRO, I take it.  Mark Steyn writes for 'em.  And McCarthy knows a lot about his field.

50

I said this a couple of days ago. Some on the right are thinking to short term. Who cares about november if this passes? Once it exists it will never be repealed.  It wouldn't have mattered if every house and senate seat had gone republican after the New Deal, once most of the structures were in place, they were there for good.

I doubt the republicans have the balls to put up infinite amendments.

 

I honestly think this will pass. And I honestly think America will default on its debts in the next 10 years.

Just think of all of this shit the government is doing now and consider the fact Social Security and Medicare become insolvent at the end of this decade and we haven't even begun to talk about that.

I think our lives our going to be much worse in this decade than they have been in any american decade since the 1930s

51

It was easier to do this when they were not in power: they could pretend to be centrists and wink to their core supporters that they would drop the act once they were in power.  But now their base expects them to deliver, and can't understand why, with a big House majority, 60 votes in the Senate and the Presidency on their side, Pelosi and Reid have delivered practically nothing for the Progressive agenda but more promises.  And if they couldn't deliver on their promises at the peak of their power in 2009, how are they going to be better able to do it in the decline of 2010?

Posted by: stuiec at March 01, 2010 02:04 PM (keSj0)

Dead on!  I loved it. The democrat support is currently in the midst of a civil war and you only need to read DU, KOS or Huff to confirm it.

52 Rush is reading this Andy McCarthy's piece right now.

53

They will put their heads down and go for as much transformation as they can get, figuring that once they get it,it will never be rolled back.

Russia never thought that Marxist/Leninism would ever be rolled back either, but the reality of bankruptcy overcame dillusion.

U.S. debt is growing at $100 billion a month.  Obligations for which the U.S. does not have money including Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid and other entitlements top $100 trillion according to the President of the Dallas Federal Reserve.  The fall of Eastern European communism took 50 years.  The fall of Western European socialism has taken a coupe of decades and is nearly complete.  When the socialism that already exists in the U.S. is coupled with the new Obama socialism, it will be like driving off a cliff.   Who knows, it might be a good thing as long as the U.S. survives as an entity.  Why prolong the suffering?

 

 

54

 But now their base expects them to deliver, and can't understand why, with a big House majority, 60 votes in the Senate and the Presidency on their side, Pelosi and Reid have delivered practically nothing for the Progressive agenda but more promises. 

I think that's why they keep acting like they have a super secret way of getting the bill through. They aren't going to give up until they've dragged it out for a couple more months. That way they can convice the base that they really really REALLY tried.

"We would have passed it if it weren't for those evil super genius but still dumb hick meddling Republicans!"

55
the "Elite" sub-culture that controls the economy here and in Europe

Ehh?  Dude prisonplanet dot com is over thataway.

56 Andy McCarthy is too busy giving his buddy Patrick Fitzgerald a blow job to know what the f is going on.

57 58 - oh man I remember that! talk about a man-crush! Fitz was always just as ideological as ANY Dem politico!

58

I'm sure all of Custers men thought he was a great leader ...  but on the morning of the Little Big Horn battle if they had know the possible outcome of that days events in advance I'm certain the General would have been riding into battle with a few less volunteers.

Nancy may be willing to attack the cannons, I'm sure some will join her, but to assume that ALL OF THEM are that crazy is just as crazy.

I know Andy is just trying to ensure that we all man the walls to the bitter end but this strikes me as not very inspirational.

You don't rally the troops by claiming the cause is lost. 

 

59

Recall one other thing that will contribute to the "backlash"; the Senate bill that the House will have to pass "as is" was a military funding bill that had been passed overwhelmingly bipartisan. The Dems marked it up in "committee" to place Obamacare in it without allowing another vote in the Senate.

This is certainly an underhanded measure and I think illegal as it will allow something to pass and become law without ever being voted on in the Senate.

Of course someone in the senate would have to take it to court because nobody else would be able to get "standing".

60

Andy's right, assuming San Fran Nan can impose a group discipline on her herd of cats. She hasn't been able to do that yet even when times were good.

Now that there is heavy incoming fire, her troops are looking for cover, not looking to push the advance forward. Every Democrat congress-critter who ISN'T perpetually re-elected (like Rangel or Pelosi) is thinking if they find a safe hole to hide in they might be able to save themselves.

I have a feeling this latest Democrat push is going to look like the British army on the first day at Paaschendale. But it requires they be fired upon with everything we can manage.

61

How many of them are Evil, and how many of them are just Idealistic & Emotional, but can be convinced to come to their senses?

ZERO.  All of them must be voted out of office.  

62 McCarthy knows a lot about his field. Yes, which is terrorism and national security. McCarthy can't describe the electoral mechanics of accomplishing this. He can't describe the districts of the moderates in the House who will have to vote for it, talk in detail about how they have voted in the past, etc. And he can't predict what will happen this fall and in 2012. Seriously, everyone get a grip. When Barone says this is happening, listen up. McCarthy is a career attorney converted into a security analyst who now fancies himself some kind of political expert. He is not.

63

It wouldn't have mattered if every house and senate seat had gone republican after the New Deal, once most of the structures were in place, they were there for good.

How true. One only has to look at Bush's efforts to "partially" privatize SS. Hell, he couldn't even get support from his own Party even with the damn system going broke. RINOs like McLame screamed louder than the commies who knew they wouldn't even have to open their mouth.

64 I hope they do it.  Then it's Katy-bar-the-door when Republicans take over Congress again.  No more need to feign politeness, bipartisanship or any other lie.

There is no compromise with these pricks.  This is Thunderdome rules: two go in, one come out.  We must win.  And that means they must lose.

This would be a very clarifying event.  Time could be about to get more interesting.

65 Nancy may be willing to attack the cannons, I'm sure some will join her, but to assume that ALL OF THEM are that crazy is just as crazy.

Let's Categorize.
A. Dems in safe seats, like Pelosi. They will vote the party line.
B. Hard core lefty Dems, would rather go down in flames than let this opportunity pass.
C. Dead Rep Walking. They are going to lose either way, and they know it, and in the end will end up voting the party line to gain what they percieve as party favor for their next political career move.
D. Unsafe, but still winnable moderate Democrat. These guys would do best to vote against health care.

How many reps really fall into group D? Really how many?

66 Common you group D democrats. The cake is right over here.

67 MtM-- How many in group D? According to Charlie Cook, over 50 seats are now in the vulnerable category. Realistically, it's probably more like 70-100.

68

To parphrase Rumsfeld ...  we go to war with the GOP we have, not the GOP we would prefer ...

For a bunch of whimps and wusses they managed to stop every major Obama initiative after the Stimulus which they put up a pretty good fight against as well ...

Seems like their record is pretty good ???

I seem to remember that it was the same bash the GOP folks who thought that we would get killed at the health care summit ...

enough with the "the GOP will mess it up" nonsense ...  point your guns at the Dems ...  you and I aren't on the actual front lines ... they are and this intramural sniping is useless ...

support them in any way you can between now and Nov, go ahead and vote the RINO's out if you think you have the votes but until then they are the team we have to play the field with ...

 

 

69

From NRO:

According to House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, the White House will release a new health-care bill on Wednesday that will be "much smaller" than either the House or Senate versions, according to news reports.

The White House said that the new proposal will "borrow" ideas from last Thursday's health-care summit and will be designed to garner bipartisan support.

A senior administration official told Fox Obama's proposal will be introduced Wednesday. 

http://tinyurl.com/ck48w

70 Tami-- Thank you. There you go, everyone: New bill = new votes in both chambers, i.e. no reconciliation. You may now flush Andy McCarthy's pensees down the appropriate receptacle. New votes = new hearings, more B.S., fiddling while the economy burns, etc. It's a great de-election strategy, as I said in the other thread. Bring it on!

71 McCarthy is a career attorney converted into a security analyst who now fancies himself some kind of political expert. He is not.

Along those lines, so what are *your* bonafides?

72 Last line in the NRO article:

The White House indicated that two GOP ideas — malpractice reform and insurance purchasing across state lines — would be worked into the new proposal.

73

I think our lives our going to be much worse in this decade than they have been in any american decade since the 1930s

Now now people--remember the 1970's? Wage and Price Controls? National fuel rationing? Appeasement and surrender abroad? 20% per annum currency inflation/devaluation? As horrid as the Obamunists are, we have survived worse.

 

74 Great, I've been thinking exactly what McCarthy said for months.  Now factor in all the shadowy, dodgy executive orders. Scary times.....

75 How many reps really fall into group D? Really how many?

Posted by: MikeTheMoose at March 01, 2010 02:21 PM (0q2P7)

Given that the strategy Rahm Emanuel used to win the House in 2006 was to recruit moderate Democrats to run in purple-to-reddish districts, there may be quite a few in category D, and those in category C ("dead men walking") may not be all that ideologically dedicated to socialized medicine.  So all is not yet lost.

(Besides, you don't really think the best way to prevent health care from passing is to give the Democrats unshakable confidence in their own reelection, do you?)

76 I'm afraid McCarthy is probably right.  The libtards have removed the one and only weapon that we the people used to have to fight controversial issues - the ability to call our senators and representatives, a.k.a. "melt the phones", and make them fear the repercussions of voting against their constituents.

They simply don't care this time around.  They are brazenly and openly going to defy the will of the people, to hell with the consequences.  Somehow, despite his seeming ineptitude, Obama has played the part of the pied piper to perfection.  Congressional democrats are going to dutifully and willfully follow him right off a cliff.  This is beyond devious, beyond dishonest.  This is evil.

This is in God's hands now.  Nothing anyone can do.

77 As horrid as the Obamunists are, we have survived worse.

Posted by: Curmudgeon at March 01, 2010 02:32 PM (ujg0T)

You are making the faulty assumption that Obama can't make things worse than they were under Carter.  I see lots of opportunities for him to do just that - or for the world to present him with fateful challenges to which he can't measure up.

78 This is another area where I know only the questions.

Life seems to be getting to that point for me too!

79 See, if we knew we had movement conservatives unafraid of killing government programs, this wouldn't be such a big deal. We'd curtail it in 2011 and eliminate it in 2013. But given the past history of the Republicans, I don't think they've got the guts to kill a program once in place. The Dept.s of Ed and Energy are still here. To say nothing of the National Endowment for the Arts.

Personally, I think this is the Democrats' Battle of the Bulge. They're gonna make some significant gains, but eventually they'll resistance they run into will be too much, and we can start the process of rolling them up and wiping them out. But its going to be a long haul.

If we're lucky and the Republicans don't pull a Tory (lose their 20 pt lead) before November it'd be nice if they had leaders willing to take advantage of the economic crises, and use it as an excuse to severely roll government back. "Its a crises. We can't afford endowments for Hobo-erotic art"

80

You are making the faulty assumption that Obama can't make things worse than they were under Carter. 

I fully understand that the mulatto Marxist Jugeared Jihadi appeaser is even more inept and treasonous than Jimmuh Cartur, who at least was a Naval Academy grad. But we have further to fall before we reach what was arguably the national nadir of 1978-1980.

81 ABA-- What difference does it make what my "bonafides" are? I'm not holding myself out as an expert on political mechanics. I am merely insisting that Andy McCarthy is NOT, repeat NOT an expert on politics. Listen to those who have studied each and every Congressional district (Barone, Cost, Cook and Sabato) and form your opinion based upon what they say. Don't listen to the NRO crowd of political philosophers who fancy themselves experts on elections and how Congress works. Having said that, I know a little bit about politics. I began in it in the 1970s, and I will just leave it at that.

82

malpractice reform and insurance purchasing across state lines — would be worked into the new proposal.

Yes, they'll put a cap on awards of 9.6 x 10⁹⁹ trillian dollars and allow adjacent States to sell insurance as long as they conform to BOTH State's insurance laws.

Meaning no change from current law and some RINO gets a beard.

83 I am merely insisting that Andy McCarthy is NOT, repeat NOT an expert on politics.

Posted by: Fresh Air at March 01, 2010 02:41 PM (gJV9g)

We get it.  You hate Andy McCarthy and NRO with a purple passion.  But it's a pretty obvious scenario.  Like that other famous moron, Ace, pointed out.

84 Dems, please please drag this out into the summer recess and the town halls.

Oh, a small note: Unemployment numbers come out this Friday.  I predict chaos based on the trend of other numbers.
I predict another gentle "massage" downward of the U3 rate by "disappearing" about 100,000 people.

Finally, Forbes has a article headlined "Democratic States in Deepest Fiscal Holes"
Shocka!

That is all. Lunchtime!

85 Yes, Nancy Pelosi and about 100 or so Congressmen for life from lefty districts are wiling to fight to the last "moderate" is dead. The question really is how many of non hardcore types are willing to walk the plank?

Based on recent behavior, not enough for Nancy and the rest of the Democratic Vanguard.

Posted by: DrewM. at March 01, 2010 01:45 PM (9B5OK)

As they tell trainee lifeguards, the most dangerous thing in the water is a drowning swimmer, because they can't think any longer and so can't understand that obeying the lifeguard is the only way to survive.  Nancy Pelosi has gone under and come up twice, and she's about to submerge for the third time - so don't expect her to exhibit rational behavior, or indeed even behavior that objectively is in her interest of self-preservation.  She's going to flail and revert to instinct, and that means reflexively grabbing for the Progressive agenda that's kept her in her seat for so long and gotten her to the Speakership.

86

See, if we knew we had movement conservatives unafraid of killing government programs, this wouldn't be such a big deal. We'd curtail it in 2011 and eliminate it in 2013. But given the past history of the Republicans, I don't think they've got the guts to kill a program once in place. The Dept.s of Ed and Energy are still here. To say nothing of the National Endowment for the Arts.

Things actually may be different this time. The communists have gone too far this time and they have roused the public like never before. I have never seen middleaged and middle class citizens marching in the streets before supporting smaller government.

Maybe Obambi has set the course for restoration.  In any case, one can pray.

87 I'm not holding myself out as an expert on political mechanics.

As he speaks pointedly that McCarthy has no idea what he's talking about.  I'd hand you some more rope but there's no sport in it.

88 Obamacare is coming whether we like it or not, in one form or another. And McCarthy is right on target with his post. The left wing of the Democratic party don't give a shit right now. They know they're screwed in November no matter what they do. Obama has already won the war in this respect---he's made the healthcare "crisis" an issue of immediate concern. A year ago nobody cared. Now, we all "have to do something". Whether its the public option or a "bipartisan" bill, either way---it will be crap. As for the Democrats, picture the scene in "The Perfect Storm", when Clooney and Wahlberg see that huge wall of water and realize they're situation is hopeless. What'd they do? Stepped on the gas and blasted full steam ahead. We all know how that turned out for the Andrea Gail but they will find other ways to sail across the wave eventually.

89 REVOLUTION!!!!!111111!!!!!!

eleventy

90

"I think we've all been thinking this. I've even been writing it."

 

Hasn't the general tenor of this blog been that this thing has been dead?

91 "But we have further to fall before we reach what was arguably the national nadir of 1978-1980."

Good god, are we facing a sequel to _The Goodbye Girl?_

92

Hasn't the general tenor of this blog been that this thing has been dead?

Posted by: Burn the Witch at March 01, 2010 02:49 PM (U37Ux)

As we have learned from Men In Black and Aliens, you can tear it in half and still the most dangerous parts can survive to attack.

93 Having said that, I know a little bit about politics. I began in it in the 1970s, and I will just leave it at that.

Posted by: Fresh Air at March 01, 2010 02:41 PM (gJV9g)

Are you actually Jimmy Carter?

94 A new smaller bill?  Wonderful.  I don't want this pack of fools passing ANYTHING for fear they will fuck it up.  Hell, I wouldn't let most of them mow my lawn.

95 Personally, I think this is the Democrats' Battle of the Bulge.

Posted by: Iblis at March 01, 2010 02:37 PM (9221z)

NUTS!

96 Oh goodie!  A brand new healthcare bill coming on Wednesday:  Crap Sandwich III, from the makers of Crap Sandwich I and II.

I hate sequels.  Actually, this time I hated the original.

97 It looks like many Democrats will vote for ObamaCare at the cost of re-election, because they believe that their POLITICAL careers are likely over.

The Democrats aren't thinking very far into the future.

Most of them will go to law firms, lobbying firms, and maybe certain big corporations.

Apply boycott pressure to companies that use those law firms and lobbyists.

Make it clear to companies that deal with companies that have hired or are considering hiring the outgoing democrats that they will lose business if they hire or retain the Democratic ex-legislators.

Send a clear message to the Democratic Representatives and Senators, and indeed anyone and everyone who votes for ObamaCare:

 We stop when ObamaCare stops.

98

Well, the Dem's have put themselves into the perfect storm alright, and sadly that's probably going to work against us in this process.  The so called "blue dogs" or "moderates" I think will probably realize that even if they don't go along with this reconcilation BS their goose is pretty much cooked already among independents.

They've gotten themselves in quite a pickle here, they can't vote against this crap or they alienate their base, the left wing moonbats who they need to help run an organize their campaigns.  I think a lot of them probably think that if they do vote against this even now the conservative/independent/non-braindead portion of the electorate will most likely oust them anyway based on their original support of the bill.  Odds are they're probably right.

So really now if they don't go along with the left wing fringe their pretty well screwed, they loose pretty much all the way around.  Also you need to take into account that a lot of these libs really honestly think that they know better than we do and that the only reason we oppose this crap is because we just don't understand it.

They've deluded themselves into believing that nonsense.  They don't get the fact that we understand this budget busting health care take over just fine, we just don't want it. 

But I think it's hard for most conservatives to grasp the liberal mindset, we are by and large far more rational.  We arrive at decisions based on logic, history and facts.  Liberals on the other hand are emotionally driven, their ideology is based on what "feels good" rather than what works, or more to the point what makes them feel like their a good person.  As a result you can't count on your average lib to do something logical, they simply won't.

So yes, I think their is a real danger here that they just might manage to ram this thing through afterall.  The "summit", as many have so rightly pointed out, was just to give Obama and company some small measure of political cover among indepedents before this last big push to completely circumvent normal parlimentary procedure and long established rules so that they can complete their takeover of healthcare.

And don't think for a minute that anything they get through we can simply repeal later.  Government assistance is perhaps one of the most addictive substances known to mankind, far more so in many regards than crack or meth.  Once you get a portion of the population hooked on these new programs good luck getting rid of them ever again.  It happened with Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, and a host of other programs.  It will happen again.

So yes, Republicans need to pull out every stop to kill this thing.  None of this Marquis of Queensbury rules on this one.. they need to use absolutely every resource at their disposal or were in for a huge government entitlement program that will never go away and will eventually bankrupt us as a nation.

99 Damn the torpedos! Or is it don the speedos? Either way, the shit's about to hit the proverbial fan.

100

Are you actually Jimmy Carter?

Posted by: conscious and main lining Vanilla Coke at March 01, 2010 02:53 PM (Vu6sl)

Billy.

101

Good god, are we facing a sequel to _The Goodbye Girl?_

More like a sequel to "Eating Raoul". A sequel to "La Cage Aux Folles" was already done.

102 The White House indicated that two GOP ideas — malpractice reform and insurance purchasing across state lines — would be worked into the new proposal.

So they're making a crap sandwich with gourmet pickles, and if we won't swallow it we're finicky eaters.

103 The White House indicated that two GOP ideas — malpractice reform and insurance purchasing across state lines — would be worked into the new proposal.

That's funny, Bambi told me malpractice reform was in the old proposal.

104

"So they're making a crap sandwich with gourmet pickles maggot sprinkles... "

 

FIFY.

105 Two things:
1) None of the bribes and free candy take effect for several years: That means the Dems know they have to be in power then if they want to take credit and know they have to maintain power to ensure that there is anything left there to take credit for. It makes no sense to pass a bill now when--if you lose power--the other side will just de-fund it and blame the failure on you.
Now, I know a while back a bunch of lefties were making pocket oysters over some speech Franken gave where he "destroyed" the Republican "lie" that there were no immediate benefits to the passage of the bill but, if that was true, i.e. there are these great, immediate benefits--how come no one is talking about them? Where are all these speeches touting the wonderful benefits the moment the Won sets down his pen? Where? No where because there aren't any.

2) If it passes A) every Republican running for office ought to stampede to sign a pledge to work for its immediate repeal and B) every rank and file conservative will demand every Republican in office and running for office sign the pledge and follow through. After passage of all the other immortal entitlements, there was, first, no majority outrage against it and second, no threat that candidates would campaign specifically for its repeal (who will win)--this bill, this process, is unlike the other entitlements cited is every respect; it's utter foolishness to think the same rules apply. But that is no reason to not kill it, cut its head off, burn it at the stake, draw and quarter it, soak it in acid, poison it and salt the earth.

106 1st Amendment: Funding the program cannot be delayed 3-18 years for purposes of accounting shenanigans. CBO scores actual cost, not the 3 year shift gimmick to make it appear it actually reduces defecit.

107 ABA-- Go fuck yourself.

108 FUBAR-- You have a reading comprehension problem. I do not hate NRO or Andy McCarthy. I think that in general, the drift of NRO is towards a weeny of conservatism where the sky is always falling. And I will not repeat what I have said about McCarthy. But you should consider that almost none of the political writers at National Review actually understand, in detail, electoral mechanics. They are political philosophers, not scientists. What is the difference? It's the difference between knowing what the "right" thing to do is from a philosophical standpoint, and being able to predict how something will play politically. The four experts I identified upthread can all do this, right down to the subdistrict level. Andy McCarthy cannot. And I love Mark Steyn, but he can't do it either. That's why I read him for interesting takes on politics and culture and pass over his projections.

109

The public just doesn't believe the government has the chops to take on another huge entitlement. We need to remind folks how history has come down on that--failure every time it's tried.

And this reconciliation is indeed a "trick". This is one of the lowest abuses of process in history. If they do pull this off--or even try--we need to take every opportunity from now until doomsday to shove it up their asses. Need a Federal judge confirmed? Reconciliation. Bridge to Nowhere? Reconcile it.

All we need is 51 seats and then let's see how happy the Left is with this reconciliation process.

110

"It's amazing really, how easy it is to dislike someone pushing oppressive government and taxes on you against your will and over your loud protests."

It would be bad enough if the majority of the country wanted what they are selling, but the overwhelming majority of the country is dead set against what they are trying to do and this has been made crystal clear to everyone involved.

The Republicans, and everyone with a stake in it who opposes this, needs to do whatever is needed to beat this hydra headed snake until it is dead, and then burn it and salt the earth around it. There really can be no compromise at this point. The R's showed they were willing to negotiate in good faith. Obama and the D's basically said,

" You refuse to negotiate at the point of a gun. OK, the gun is pointed right at you, and we will use it on you to get what we want."  

111 So, if this thing passes, and does not suffer repeal (and I think there is a hope for that since the benefits do not start right away) what is the best way to crash it quickly?  My assumption is that the best way to attack the monster is to swamp it with demands it can not meet.  I've been to the doc twice in the last decade, for about 15 minutes each time.  If they force me to pay for this, my attitude will change.  I'll do what I can to make it unworkable, and to deny care to those who need it.  I'll get the absolute MAXIMUM benefit I can out of the system, and burden it as best I can.  If those of us on the right do it, just as the gutter spawn trash most certainly will, we can kill the system.

112 I didn't know Charles Johnson was an effin' vampire....

113 > 2 ... The hive-mind is comprised of hundreds of little drones who DO possess a fundamental survival instinct. Posted by: arhooley Vulnerable Dems can be bought off with positions in the ever-expanding govt. health-care apparatus.

114 So, in the spirit of trying to improve the Socialized Medicine bill, the Republicans are offering amendments, eh?  Seems to me that's walking down a very well-worn path to our defeat.  Reason is that it gives Repub congresswhores a reason to vote FOR the fuckin' thing.
      "Yeah, I opposed it in its original form, but we managed to wring all these *concessions* out of the Dems!!  They caved on Tort Reform and letting companies compete across state lines, which was what we wanted, so yes, I voted for it."

Moron move.  Lucy is **promising** Charlie Brown that *this time* she'll let him actually KICK the football.

The should have stuck with amendments that would weaken the thing--all of which Pelosi and Reid would have defeated.  Instead, naive, good-natured GOP droids tried to make government work--and likely will end up helping the damn thing get passed, by virtue of their hard-fought amendments.

Which Obama will kill by instructions to executive-branch agencies.

Lord, what good-natured fools....

115 Sex medicine
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