1 She wants an end to it, just by bombing it back to the Stone Age and converting them to Christianity.

2 Sounds about right.

3

Yeah she made her desires quite clear a while ago....

it is not "endless war" if there is no counterbattery going on anymore.

 

Gotta love her calling out the donks on their "how hard is it to find a six and a half foot tall Arab" riff...

4 Eh... Anne Coulter and her weird neck and snarky comments have long since lost their attractiveness to me... she's gone beyond her 15 minutes... Now, S.E. Cupp... *there's* a conservative....

5

If Anne's coming out against it, you can damn well bet that all of a sudden a bunch of lib pundits on the left will be all for it.

6 Basically she is making the point that most people agree with and that is, either fight to win it with no mercy, or bring our boys home.

7 I'd definitely hit Coulter (I think).

8

"In the entire seven-year course of the Afghanistan war under Bush, from October 2001 to January 2009, 625 American soldiers were killed. In 18 short months, Obama has nearly doubled that number to 1,124 Americans killed."

That's a pretty money quote, really. But I'm not convinced that talking about it right now will do anything more than confuse the heck out of average, apolitical people.

9 I'm guessing she's against "endless war" because she'd rather go in, raze the place to the ground, and get the hell out rather than pussy-footing around in the fear that something might somehow be construed as being "anti-Muslim".

10 The Ann Coulter doll comes dressed in a micro-mini skirt, sporting a pack of cigs, carrying a martini in one hand and a restraining order against Bill Maher in her purse.

11
She makes some valid points..

The obsession with Afghanistan was pure rhetoric. Democrats have no interest in fighting any war that would serve America's interests. (They're too jammed with their wars against Evangelicals, Wal-Mart, the Pledge of Allegiance, SUVs and the middle class.) Absent Iraq, they'd have been bad-mouthing Afghanistan, too.

12 So, okay. Seriously. What IS the fucking end game? How do we win the war? The way I see it, we burn every masjid to the ground by setting alight every Koran and imposing western Judeo-Christian values on the populace. And anyone who stands in the way is liquidated. No more tribes, no more tribalism, no more Wahabbist fascism, no more misogyny. That's about the only way I see how we can possibly win there and go home. Converting them by force to a modern western democracy.

13 As a military mom, I'd love to see us level the damned shit hole and get the hell out.  I'm sick to death of the ridiculous ROE.  Let our military do what they do best and kill Taliban. 

But then Barry might feel sad.

14 Is this a long-held belief I wasn't aware of?

Not by most of us, and it sounds more like Ann's reacting than thinking this through ( maybe she's friends with Steele or something).  If we leave Afghanistan, they go back to planning the next 9/11 (remember that Mullah Omar boasted early on that this war was about the destruction of America, so it's not like just the guys with Al Qaeda baseball caps are the problem).  She's right in that the people of Afghanistan are not worth, nor show any interest in nation building.  The solution is to leave the region an irradiated wasteland and let cancer deal with Al Qaeda on trips between caves.  But until we have the political will to do that, endless war there or mass civilian casualties here are the only options available to us. 

15 You know the libs and the MFM will just come out and say she's only writing this because Teh Zero is the POTUS now.  It'll dilute Coulter's message with those who still watch the MFM.

16 Perhaps if I believed that we had a strategy to win I might support this "war", but a) I am sure that the Dems would run from a winning strategy with Olympic speed if Petraeus developed one, and b) it seems to me that even if we won, whatever it is that we had won wouldn't be worth a tinker's dam. The end result is that we would still have 7th century peasants selling rocks to each other and warlords opium to the highest bidder. Not worth any sacrifice on our part! Steele is incompetent, but he got the part about lost causes right on this one.

17
in the thread below someone linked a story about a Palestinian 'mom' who wants her sick baby son to get better...

so he can someday be a suicide bomber and kill joos.

Some people you just can't reach. And these barbarians in Afghanistan might not be worth the trouble.

18 Ann might have just jumped the shark.  She's calling out Liz Cheney?

I've stuck with Ann through some touchy stuff, but this time I think she's gone off her rocker.  What Steele said WAS historically inaccurate.  And Steele is WAY past his sell-by date.

None of that says whether we should or shouldn't get out of Afghanistan now.  In fact, with our current mission statement for that war, I'm for bringing the boys home, too.  But that doesn't change history; we were there since 2001 for good reasons.  What changed was our mission, and Obama did that.

Ann, think about what you are doing:  picking Steele over Liz Cheney.  Is a fellow smart blond that intimidating?

19

Posted by: Lemon Kitten at July 07, 2010 07:07 PM (0fzsA)

Agreed.  She makes plenty of good points.  Wherever you (conservatives) stand, I think her point of view should have a place on the right. 

This isn't the 1st time she has defended Michael Steele, who I have no great love for.

 

20 I wonder if she's just giving Obama hell because that's what they would do regardless of the facts on the ground.

21

maybe we need to follow the Kucinich plan and send them flowers.

22 Maybe we need to send Bolden over to explain to the Taliban their great achievements in physics and chemistry.

23

Its not a question of can we win... its a question of can we win in a politicly correct manner?

History has thousands of examples of how to pacify a population... but we can no longer use what works, but must somehow win the hearts of minds of illiterate Tribal Islamic Jihadists, without saying anything bad about their "culture", or religion.

In Germany and Japan, we essentialy destroyed the social order... and in Japan actualy outlawed their primary religion... in order to rebuild them into somthing we could live with... but due to PC Multiculturalism, we can no longer even call barbaric actions like stoning someone to death... or sentencing them to death for changing their relgion... wrong...

24 here is my strategy for poopy poo. We simply poopy over there all the poopies that think they know how to poople pee.

25

This isn't the 1st time she has defended Michael Steele, who I have no great love for.

 

 

Agreed.  His reighn is up in January.  Hope he doesn't do more damage by then.

26 If anyone thinks for a minute that we are going to change Afghanistan into a law abiding civilized society by next July let alone any July in the next 15 years I want some of what you are smoking. If you agree that we are not then I ask you why the escallation and what the F are we doing?

27

18 Randall,

I suspect Ann was in pure mockery mode and using backhanded logic to castigate all parties, plus she was in essence invoking Reagan's 11th.

28 Overall I agree with Ann.  We refuse to massacre the damn muslim scum in adequate numbers to make them give up and bow down.  We insist on rules of engagement that make our men into targets and allow a terrorist to simply throw down arms when he runs out of ammo and walk away.  Right now, thanks to the damn do-gooders and muzzie lovers, the war over there is just masturbation.  If we're going to keep this up, it's better to just bring our guys home and let the Afghan vermin suffer under the taliban.

29 How about we tell the Afgans, "It's your country, do what you want, but if you harbor anyone who attacks us again, we'll be back...and this place and everyone in it will be part of one HUGE glass parking lot."

30 This isn't the 1st time she has defended Michael Steele, who I have no great love for. Posted by: Delta Smelt at July 07, 2010 07:13 PM (0pYSi) I don't think she was so much defending Steele as much as questioning Obama's interest in seeing this thru and either prosecuting the War properly ( what ever that means?) or getting the hell out.

31

Agreed.  His reighn is up in January.  Hope he doesn't do more damage by then.

Posted by: Wyatt Earp at July 07, 2010 07:15 PM (zgZzy)

Yup.  Hopefully he will be replaced by a boring, money raising tactician.

32
I've long since tired of hearing about good men getting killed by the handful from the roadside IED's.

Either start blowing shit up, busting heads, and stop fucking around, or leave. Bomb the shit out of everything outside Kabul and secure the city. Fuck the rest of 'em.

33 Ann's just making the point that, for Obama, the war is all about politics. He can't be seen to look weak. BP's ass he can kick, rhetorically. The Taliban? Not so much, words don't seem to be killing them.

34 I KNEW she was a damn commie redistributionist peacenik.

35 I'm no huge fan of Steele, and won't ever be, but I think drawing the long knives for him is completely uncalled for at the present time. If somebody better is willing to step up in January, fine. In the meantime, for better or for worse, we're stuck with him, and calling him out publicly is precisely the wrong image to send ahead of a major election.

36 Bomb the shit out of everything outside Kabul and secure the city. Fuck the rest of 'em. Posted by: i speak semaphor at July 07, 2010 07:17 PM (lJ4II) How about bomb the shit out of Kabul and secure the poppy fields?

37 This is really the wrong time now that Petraeus has taken over. 

Would have been more effective a couple of weeks ago.  Now, the ROE may change.

Unlikely, but still...

38 "But now I hear it is the official policy of the Republican Party to be for all wars, irrespective of our national interest."

This is the position of far too many morons on this site and others.

39 I think maybe her point was that Bill Kristol should resign for supporting John McCain but I'm not entirely sure on that.  Actually, for an Ann Coulter article it was kind of vague. 

40 Way to go, Ann!! I can always count on her to show more brains and guts than the smarmy Bill Kristol and his ilk.

41

38 TPG,

can we please at least be for all the wars against people who wish us nuclear fire sir/ma'am?

42

I couldn't find a single passage in her article with which I disagreed. 

We do not have the resources, the time, or the will to do what's necessary to build a successful Afghanistan.

Hell, we don't even have the will to take back our country from the weak-minded, politically correct Marxists who run our schools and much of our government.  We don't even have the guts to point out the despicable nature of Islam and Sharia law.  Our attorney general won't even mention the word Islam in the context of terrorism.

But we've got the will to rebuild Afghanistan? 

Right. 

43 37 This is really the wrong time now that Petraeus has taken over. 

Would have been more effective a couple of weeks ago.  Now, the ROE may change.

Unlikely, but still...

Posted by: AmishDude at July 07, 2010 07:18 PM (T0NGe)

Uh, you do know that Patreus was CENTCOM... and thus in command of McChrystal?  Patr HAD to have signed off on those ROEs.

44 Incidentally, THIS is the real reason that there wasn't much of a groundswell for forcing Michael Steele out.  A significant percentage of the GOP base -- a SIGNIFICANT percentage, think 50% or more, not just the Paulites -- is itself deeply skeptical of the Afghan war, but probably a little shy about saying so. 

I support the mission, myself.  But I'm not deluded about where the base is at on this, either.

45 Republicans sure must love playing defense. Democrats don't have to worry about being attacked for their fucked up plans, Republicans would rather attack themselves even when they are right on the issues.

46 john Ryan just volunteered to go to Afghanistan.

47 This is one of the few times when Coulter is wrong, on most accounts.  Afghanistan is not "Obama's War".  Just because the Indonesian Imbecile used Afghanistan as a bludgeon against Bush and McCain doesn't mean that it's "his".  It isn't.

As to her sad defense of the retard, Steele:

As Michael Steele correctly noted, every great power that's tried to stage an all-out war in Afghanistan has gotten its ass handed to it.

Steele was simply stealing a stupid line from The Princess Bride - though "Asia" was replaced with "Afghanistan".  I don't like politicians who crib lines from silly (though entertaining) movies that have nothing to do with anything.  (If The Princess Bride stole that line from someone else, then could someone correct me on this?)

Steele made idiotic comments that were stupid, wrong, and indefensible.

As to Afghanistan, we certainly shouldn't be screwing around with them the way we are.  We should reduce them to the point where they can't threaten anyone and then leave.  Of course, our military isn't supposed to be killing people anymore.  Its main directive, now, is to help the muslim world with their self-esteem about their great contributions to war and fighting.  Where would this world be without savage international terrorists and suicide bombers?

Ann needs to go back to the drawing board on this one.

48 I don't think she was so much defending Steele as much as questioning Obama's interest in seeing this thru and either prosecuting the War properly ( what ever that means?) or getting the hell out.

Posted by: Nevergiveup at July 07, 2010 07:16 PM (U5btG)

You could be right, I've seen her defend him in other gaffes though.  I have mixed feelings on Astan.  Mostly brought on by my distrust for the man leading the effort.  Obama I mean. 

We can't leave the region entirely of course, but I don't want to lose anymore men fighting for 3rd century primatives in a futile attempt at democracy.

Perhaps their is a third way.

49 Ann needs to go back to the drawing board on this one. Posted by: progressoverpeace at July 07, 2010 07:21 PM (Qp4DT) Sometime I think the only place Ann really cares about going to is the Bank

50 "As to Afghanistan, we certainly shouldn't be screwing around with them the way we are.  We should reduce them to the point where they can't threaten anyone and then leave."

Has Afghanistan ever been powerful enough to threaten anyone?

51 Posted by: the peanut gallery at July 07, 2010 07:19 PM (NurK6)

Thanks for telling us what we believe, you clueless fuck.

52  Of course, our military isn't supposed to be killing people anymore.  Its main directive, now, is to help the muslim world with their self-esteem about their great contributions to war and fighting. 

Posted by: progressoverpeace at July 07, 2010 07:21 PM (Qp4DT)

Dam, I thought that was NASA... can't seem to keep up...

53 Way O/T but here's an interview that was done with Obama's new CMS recess appointee, Donald Berwick:

HereÂ’s an interview that Donald Berwick, President ObamaÂ’s appointee charged with cutting $500 billion from Medicare, gave in October 2006:

Effective leaders know their deficiencies. How do you address yours?

I donÂ’t feel like a leader, so itÂ’s very hard for me to project myself into that situation. But inattention to detail is my biggest defect. IÂ’m always leaning forward into something new. I can create a mess. Luckily, I have people who are willing to create the detail around the idea or, if theyÂ’re really smart, know which ideas to ignore.

The second defect is more personal uncertainty than you would probably believe. Every time I put an idea out, despite my enthusiasm, IÂ’m very, very unsure about whether itÂ’s OK or not. And the third is that I want everyone to like me, and yet IÂ’m aware that when youÂ’re pushing for change, that isnÂ’t always going to happen. To be more effective as a leader, I would probably want to thicken my skin

 

We are so screwed!

54 john Ryan just volunteered to go to Afghanistan.

On a short bus.

55 Could somebody show me the thriving modern muslim democracy so many people are trying to re-create?

You mean such a state has never actually existed?

So what is the end game? What do we call victory?

Hamburg or Dresden sound good to me, but people get all upset when you talk mass bombing raids these days.

56 Perhaps their is a third way. Posted by: Delta Smelt at July 07, 2010 07:21 PM (0pYSi) Withdraw to a safe distance and just keep striking them when they try to reconstitute any training sites, weapons factories, yada yada yada. Kinda like a real large artillery range.

57 The way I see it, we burn every masjid to the ground by setting alight every Koran and imposing western Judeo-Christian values on the populace. And anyone who stands in the way is liquidated.

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at July 07, 2010 07:09 PM (9Cooa)

This.  Heavy on the liquidation.

58 48--Can you name any great (or minor) power that HAS successfully conquered A'stan in the past millenium?

59 Sometime I think the only place Ann really cares about going to is the Bank

Posted by: Nevergiveup at July 07, 2010 07:22 PM (U5btG)

I don't think so.  I trust Coulter's integrity and she is usually right on the mark.  She's trying to be too cute by half with this, though.  Her defense of Steele is just plain silly.  What he said was beyond idiotic - both in his wording and in his meaning.

60 Steele was simply stealing a stupid line from The Princess Bride - though "Asia" was replaced with "Afghanistan".

Um, no.

Steele was referring, rather, to the Russian experience in Afghanistan in 1979-1988, where the Soviet Union got its ass decisively handed to it.  The joke from "The Princess Bride" is also a riff on this (as well as Napoleon's and Hitler's experiences) historical incident, fresh in the minds of theatergoers at the time. 

Sorry.  Wrong.

61 She makes some valid points..

The fact that Dem's BSed the importance of Afghanistan is not a logical arguement for or against continued operations there; Only an argument that our current justification is invalid. That is not to say that justification does not rightly exist, only that our current one is erroneous. She treats it as a central premise, and does poor followup analysis on the goals of continued military operations. (e.g. we can't do nation building so we should leave) is about as much analysis as I would expect from a 9th grader, not a NYT bestselling author on political commentary. Her logic follows the exact same path as.

Our mission was to discover WMD
WMD did not exist in significant numbers.
=>
Our mission is invalid.
=>
We have no justification for continued operation.
=>
We should cut and run.

Once you get to step "Our mission is invalid." for whatever reason, a through analysis of the military/political situation in the region, with identification of alternate missions and objectives required to meet US political goals is necessary before a prudent course of action can be chosen, which may be cut and run. She does none of this. Her opinion, in this case, is simply contrarian criticism fueled by her dislike of the current administration and legislative majority parties, and beyond its surface is no more valid then dem criticism of nation building in Iraq.

I discount it.

62 Sometime I think the only place Ann really cares about going to is the Bank

Posted by: Nevergiveup at July 07, 2010 07:22 PM (U5btG)

Thats cold man.  Cold.

63
And Bill Kristol can taker his neoconservatism and go fuck himself.

He's a socially liberal, pro open borders, pro-corporatist, pro-war-for-defense-spending hawk mealey-mouthed dink.

You know how the moonbats keep talking about chicken hawks and rich white people sending other's kids to wars? Bill Kristol is who they're talking about.

64 Guys she's not defending Steele, she's attacking Kristol.

65

PoP, I think she is sensing the GOP against Steele(of which I am one) is going to hand the M$M a narrative line that will save a few seats...

 

YMMV

66 I don't think so. I trust Coulter's integrity and she is usually right on the mark. She's trying to be too cute by half with this, though. Her defense of Steele is just plain silly. What he said was beyond idiotic - both in his wording and in his meaning. Posted by: progressoverpeace at July 07, 2010 07:26 PM (Qp4DT) I got trapped into going to one of those "debates" between Coulter and that guy comedian. She really wasn't up to it and I felt like getting up and bitch slapping them both

67 We were drawing down in Turdcrapistan. Then Obama decided he needed to.......what is it that he decided, eventually? Get the fuck out of there. We won.

68 Men, it has been well said, think in herds; it will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, and one by one.
- Charles Mackay

69
Withdraw to a safe distance and just keep striking them when they try to reconstitute any training sites, weapons factories, yada yada yada. Kinda like a real large artillery range.

Posted by: Nevergiveup at July 07, 2010 07:25 PM (U5btG)

Yeah, thats where I have been leaning for awhile. 

70
How about bomb the shit out of Kabul and secure the poppy fields?

okay, you've got my attention. What's in it for me?

/leans forward

71

This is one of the few times when Coulter is wrong, on most accounts.  Afghanistan is not "Obama's War".  Just because the Indonesian Imbecile used Afghanistan as a bludgeon against Bush and McCain doesn't mean that it's "his".  It isn't.

Vietnam must have been before your time. Every war is whoever the president is at them time's war. Our president is our leader and he owns whatever war we happen to be fighting at the time. Nam was never Kennedy's war because he sent a small amount of supposedly non combatents to train the south. It became Johnsons war when he decided to go all in. It became Nixons war when he rightfully decided to bomb the fuck out of the North no matter where they happened to be at the time.

Nobody thinks back on FDR as the first and only president to use Nukes even though he was the one that pushed to invent the damn things.

72 don't go on wobbly now on Afghanistan. And yes recruiting centers are still open for the true believers

73 I get what Anne is saying, but I'd be more sympathetic if I thought for even 1 second Steele meant what she's implying.

Steele is a bumbling fool from square 1.

74

Circa 2012:

Just about for years ago I set out on ObamaÂ’s Afghanistan road,
SeekinÂ’ my fame and glory, lookinÂ’ to turn the mullahÂ’s hemorrhoid into a pot of gold.
Well, things got bad, and things got worse, I guess you will know the tune.
Oh ! lord, stuck in ObamaÂ’s Afghanistan yet again.

Flew in yet again on a big plane, I hope IÂ’ll be in one piece flyin out when I go.
I was yet again just passinÂ’ through, must now be yet another 3 tours or more.
Running out of time and patience ["Not to complain but whatever the hell happened to my youth?!"], looks like they took still more of my friends.
Oh ! lord, Im stuck in ObamaÂ’s Afghanistan yet again.

The Hope and Change man in the White House said yet again I was on my way.
Somewhere I lost his connection, he ran out of words to say.
I came into Kabul, yet another one year stand, looks like the plans fell through yet again
Oh ! lord, stuck in ObamaÂ’s Afghanistan yet again.

MmmmÂ…
If I only had a woman ["Hey Jack, do you remember what a woman is?"], for evry Obama tour Ive done.
And evry time Ive had to fight while cheered on by CINOÂ’s Obama sat back home oblivious to Islam and power drunk.
You know, Id like to catch the next plane back to where Im from.
Oh ! lord, Im stuck in ObamaÂ’s Afghanistan yet again.
Oh ! lord, Im stuck in ObamaÂ’s Afghanistan yet again.

- CCR Soldier Boy

75 Uh, you do know that Patreus was CENTCOM... and thus in command of McChrystal?  Patr HAD to have signed off on those ROEs.

True, but (1) that's not the image in the media, (2) again, bad timing, this is exactly the wrong time to do this and (3) Petraeus may have made a deal with Obama on the ROEs in exchange for taking the job.  We don't know.

76
OK, was anyone in favor of the Panama war?  

What Panama War?

I swear if you're talking about that little 1/2 day operation in Grenada...

77 Can you name any great (or minor) power that HAS successfully conquered A'stan in the past millenium?

Posted by: Hrothgar at July 07, 2010 07:25 PM (8nf3A)

The Soviets had beaten their asses pretty easily until we got in on the other side.  And the Mongols pretty much did what they wanted with the place.

But, the point about what Steele said is this:

Steele - "If he's such a student of history, has he not understood that, you know, that's the one thing you don't do is engage in a land war in Afghanistan?"

The Princess Bride - Vizzini: "You only think I guessed wrong! That's what's so funny! I switched glasses when your back was turned! Ha ha! You fool! You fell victim to one of the classic blunders - The most famous of which is "never get involved in a land war in Asia" ..."

78 A big investment in Afghanistan is a fool's errand. Nation-building in Afghanistan is an even bigger fool's errand.

79

George Will said that a year ago and pretty much uniformly got ripped to shreds.

Posted by: lowandslow at July 07, 2010 07:32 PM (GZitp)

Yeah but I'm not wearing a bow tie so I have more credibility.  I keed.

I'm rooting for Petraeus, I really am.  I hope it works.  But I'm running out of patience. 

Astan is a disgrace to third world hellholes.  We shall see.

80

Nobody thinks back on FDR as the first and only president to use Nukes even though he was the one that pushed to invent the damn things.

Posted by: robtr at July 07, 2010 07:30 PM (fwSHf)

The one and only good thing he did as far as I'm concerned.  I'm glad he didn't live long enough to enjoy ordering their use. 

81 Withdraw to a safe distance and just keep striking them when they try to reconstitute any training sites, weapons factories, yada yada yada. Kinda like a real large artillery range.

Posted by: Nevergiveup at July 07, 2010 07:25 PM (U5btG)

I like it!

*runs outta the room* See Barry... you should have listened to me instead of dumb ol' general you just fired.

82
wait, you talking about Noriega and the Sandinistas?

83 Here's the bigger difference: Bush is no longer president.

Obama is president.  Does anyone trust him to prosecute this thing either effectively or with America's interests in mind?

Or do we think he's just going through the motions because he faked being interested in the "good war" so that the mushy middle wouldn't think he's a weenie?

Conservatives don't go to war to prove how macho they are, that's what liberals do.  Ditto with the death penalty.

84

Either start blowing shit up, busting heads, and stop fucking around, or leave. Bomb the shit out of everything outside Kabul and secure the city. Fuck the rest of 'em.

I said this after 9/11 and again before we went into Iraq. I knew what would happen. A lot of fucking around with touchy feely bullshit and dead American soldiers. You don't go in trying to turn a place into utopia. You go in and kill as many people as possible (including civilians) and you break their spirit.

Thank the New Left in the 1960s for this shit. After the fit they threw over Vietnam we'll never be able to wage an effective war again.

Unless we get rid of the Left.

85 I have been on the record against "nation building" and "winning hearts and minds" for ever since I posted my first comment here. Kill the bad guys, salt the fields and leave.

86

#58 Withdraw to a safe distance and just keep striking them when they try to reconstitute any training sites, weapons factories, yada yada yada. Kinda like a real large artillery range.

Yes. And do the same to Iran.

 

Create 2 rules.

 

1) Peaceful democracies are allowed air travel and technology.

2) Countries like Iran and Afghanistan are not. Shoot down every plane, sink any ship trying to supply them. Do to them what Clinton sort of did with Serbia. Why is it ok to bomb white peoples countries back to the stone age and not countries like Iran?

87

After the fit they threw over Vietnam we'll never be able to wage an effective war again.

 

The Gulf War was an exception . . . until Bush 41 decided not to go straight to Baghdad.  *spit*

88

Obama is president.  Does anyone trust him to prosecute this thing either effectively or with America's interests in mind?

Thats my main reservation.  I don't want good men to lose their lives for nothing.  I don't think this guy has the stones (or the ideology) to stick it out for the long haul.

I hope Petraeus can show massive improvement in a short time. 

89 And when I say "kill the bad guys" that may or may not include reporters.

90 Sometimes, Coulter comes off as being from the "ready...fire...aim" school, to willing to defend stupid Repubs (what up, Mike?) simply because they're Repubs.

True, Osma Obama spent a lot of time ranting about the war when he had little or no influence over its conduct, but Bush did set the tone by going into both Afghanistan and Iraq in a half-assed way that would even have horrified past appeaser-presidents.

When you engage in war, there is one way only: inflict maximum damage at maximum speed on the enemy, with minimum damage to your own people and assets. Bush didn't do that; he was in full-wimp mode as a C-in-C (so, to a lesser extent, was Daddy Bush), and was distracted by that whole "nation-building" thing.

The Traitor-in-Chief is equally pathetic, with the added bonus that even if he happens to think of something to do, he believes that because he has given a speech about it, it will happen. No thought, no planning, no competence.

Still, I must admit seeing a headline beginning with "Ann Coulter Comes Out..." gave me a small, sick thrill....

91 The day that I heard that we were going into Afghanistan I sat down and cried.  Those who fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat it.  Afghanistan has repeatedly defeated the most powerful armies in the world.  Alexander the Great, the British - twice, the Russians.  Even under Bush during his first term, this was an iffy proposition.  Under Obama Afghanistan is nothing more than an opportunity to destroy our military physically, materielly and morale-wise. 

Trust Obama to prosecute this war successfully?   I don't trust The Won to prosecute a roll of toilet paper onto the holder.  A war?  You've got to be joking.

92 You go in and kill as many people as possible (including civilians) and you break their spirit.

Thank the New Left in the 1960s for this shit. After the fit they threw over Vietnam we'll never be able to wage an effective war again.

Unless we get rid of the Left.

If Al Qaeda smuggles a couple of nukes into major US cities, Both those problems will be solved, in that the survivors will finally find the stomach for what we should have done nine years ago.

93 Um, no.

Steele was referring, rather, to the Russian experience in Afghanistan in 1979-1988, where the Soviet Union got its ass decisively handed to it.  The joke from "The Princess Bride" is also a riff on this (as well as Napoleon's and Hitler's experiences) historical incident, fresh in the minds of theatergoers at the time. 

Sorry.  Wrong.

Posted by: Jeff B. at July 07, 2010 07:26 PM (l1KFP)

Wrong about what?  Your assumptions of the origins of the dialogue of The Princess Bride is interesting, if totally fabricated.  Did you even read my post?

Just explain this to me, Jeff, Afghanistan is land-locked, so what kind of war can there be in Afghanistan other than a "land war"?  Try and explain how the phrase "land war" got into Steele's insane ranting.  I'm interested to hear this one.

94 "The Gulf War was an exception . . . until Bush 41 decided not to go straight to Baghdad. *spit*" That was another one of Colin Powell's decisions. You know, the genius who endorsed Obama.

95

Posted by: rawmuse at July 07, 2010 07:40 PM (gQWi+)

I'm actualy a proponent of brining back the ole Medeval Punishment Raid.  Eseentialy of a country does not do what you want, you don't invade and hold, you just destroy.

Bomb bridges, airports, dams, electrical plants, transmission lines, factories, and oil wells... essentialy knock back their economy to square 1... then go home.

After all, we ARE based, in our own founding documents, on the idea that a Government rules at the behest of the people... so NOT holding those people accountable for their Governments actions, allows those governments free reign with no real accountablility (since we won't just assasinate leaders).

96 You can strike whatever you can find.  Without a robust, engaged effort on the ground your intel goes to crap and your just killing huts.  Remember all the hair pulling over how our abandoning of human intelligence for satellite pictures was one of proximate causes of this mess.

Additionally, its logistics ... this may sound backwards, but Afghanistan is our base for hitting the Pakistan FATA.  I don't think we could continue striking AQ if we were flying out of Pakistani bases, unless they moved back into Afghanistan.  Truly fucked up situation.

I prefer her original strategy - Kill the Leaders and Convert them to Christianity.  It will take a generation or more; but we need to take these turds out or next time they will be destroying cities instead of buildings.

97 Bravo Ann. In general I don't think Steele is particularily effective, but on this issue he should not have been savaged by the right. Obama ran on Afghanistan being the right war, and he barely pays lip service to it. We should get out.

98

97 PoP,

 

not that I'd ever advocate violence of any sort, but I think the point they are trying to make(and it is a bad one and not correct as a strategy IMHO) is that "an air war" can see our goals met....

 

I disagree of course the Clintonian Err War emboldened RadIslam

99 52 Posted by: the peanut gallery at July 07, 2010 07:19 PM (NurK6) Thanks for telling us what we believe, you clueless fuck. Posted by: Waterhouse at July 07, 2010 07:23 PM (YAFek) Near as I can tell that makes about half of the Moronosphere clueless fucks.

100

Her defense of Steele is just plain silly. What he said was beyond idiotic – both in his wording and in his meaning.

Posted by: progressoverpeace at July 07, 2010 07:26 PM

At least Steele doesnÂ’t have COIN-N-Mouth disease like McChrystal, Petraeus and the Indonesian Imbecile.

101 Ehh, the right kind of air war would do wonders for A'stan.  One involving B2s dropping nukes.

102 Obama hates the military. The more military he kills because of his ROE's, the better he and the Dem's like it. Besides he shows his compassionate side for muslems who hate America who want to kill us all.

103 Romeo13 <i> Bomb bridges, airports, dams, electrical plants, transmission lines, factories, and oil wells... essentialy knock back their economy to square 1... then go home. </i>  If the Arab have any of this stuff it is because we (the West) built if for them, generally because it facilitates something we want like oil, pistachios, rugs, shit guess that's the whole list.

104 >>I don't think so. I trust Coulter's integrity and she is usually right on the mark. She's trying to be too cute by half with this, though. Her defense of Steele is just plain silly. What he said was beyond idiotic - both in his wording and in his meaning. So what's the end game? I think some missed the most important part of what Coulter wrote. Anyone who has read about or knows anything about Afghanistan knows that this is not a country in the strictest sense. Never has been and never will be. It is a no man's land of internecine warfare, tribalism, religious nuts and endless outside meddling. There is little interest within the country about being any sort of unified nation so again, what's the end game? I've long held that the major unspoken reason for going to Iraq is that it was in many ways the polar opposite of Afghanistan and represented the best chance the west had for stopping the rapid spread of Islamic fundamentalism and taking out a major threat at the same time. Iraq appears to be coming slowly around to a functioning state if not a Jeffersonian democracy. There was never this chance in Afghanistan. The best that could be hoped for was what we had, a relatively inexpensive in blood and treasure occupation. Don't like the word? To bad. Either we occupy it or our enemies will. Again. The Bush administration knew this even if they couldn't say it but Obama ran on making Afghanistan the good war and has doubled down on a war with no stated endgame. By doing this he has changed the mission from what Bush had left him so it's now his war even if he doesn't want it. So if Coulter is wrong, where is she wrong?

105 Why nation building in Iraq is soooo much better than nation building in A-stan? The differences are there, but the sectarianism in Iraq is MUCHO WORSE and we are still paying the awakening tribes so they don't kill each other off and/or join AQI.

All these countries need is vicious dictators who are scared enough of losing power so they don't let the Jihadis take over. Education and Democracy only empower their perceived self importance and thus their hatred of the West which "robbed them" of whatever and whatnot.

106 Near as I can tell that makes about half of the Moronosphere clueless fucks.

So you are in favor of another 9/11.  Wonderful.

107

Yahweh, David Petraeus and Stanley McChrystal
Would never okay the way you do your thing
Ding ding ding, ding, ding, ding
And youÂ’ll get yours, David Petraeus and Stanley McChrystal
CoddlinÂ’ and even sidinÂ’ with that Islam stuff like you do
Boo hoo hoo, boo hoo hoo

Where have you gone, General George S. Patton?
Our nation turns its longing eyes to you
WhatÂ’s that you say, David Petraeus and Stanley McCrystal?
You have banished ‘ol Blood and Guts far away
Hey hey hey, hey hey hey

Coo coo ca-choo, Mr. Pentagon
Mohammad appreciates you more than you will know
Woo woo woo, woo woo woo
Allah blesses you, yes, Mr. Pentagon
He may grant some small temporary mercy to those infidels who their own mislead and betray
Hey hey hey, hey hey hey

Tav on July 7th, 2010 at 7:5

108
We spend, what, almost $700B a year on defense (not including the cost of Iraq & Afghanistan) and this is how we wage war?

What's the point of having this massive and expensive military force if we're not going to use it (see: Iraq & Afghanistan) or protect our allies (see: South Korea, Israel)?

It's starting to look like a jobs program rather than a military...which is exactly what the Left wants.

109 "Land war in Asia" may be an allusion to Napoleon's and Hitler's attack of Russia.

110

We just had another shaker here in SD.

The march to the sea begins!

111 It's a shame we can't all lose.

112

The second defect is more personal uncertainty than you would probably believe. Every time I put an idea out, despite my enthusiasm, IÂ’m very, very unsure about whether itÂ’s OK or not. And the third is that I want everyone to like me, and yet IÂ’m aware that when youÂ’re pushing for change, that isnÂ’t always going to happen. To be more effective as a leader, I would probably want to thicken my skin

 

We are so screwed!

Posted by: runningrn at July 07, 2010 07:24 PM (CfmlF)

Great. Stuart fuckin' Smalley will be running our health care system.

This is the type of shit libs absolutely gush over.

113 Granny, Whenever people make a list of armies that failed to conquer Afghanistan - they fail to mention who did and how -- the Mongols, think stacks of skulls.

114

-->not that I'd ever advocate violence of any sort,

Man, sven, that warning really got to you.

-->but I think the point they are trying to make(and it is a bad one and not correct as a strategy IMHO) is that "an air war" can see our goals met....

Welll, I see where you're going, but we can't have an air war with a country that has no planes. And just blowing things up from the air (which I happen to prefer for Afghanistan) is not really called a "war", as we see with the drones in Pakistan. No one is calling that an air war in Pakistan. Those are just operations. Any war in Afghanistan would be very much on the ground. Otherwise, no one would bother calling it a war.

-->I disagree of course the Clintonian Err War emboldened RadIslam

Posted by: sven10077 at July 07, 2010 07:46 PM (kq1lG)

Because Clinton was fighting FOR the muslims. And I really have never heard anyone call Kosovo an "air war" - though I do like your "Err War" label. I don't think anyone considered it a "war" in any real sense, but just stupid actions by Clinton aiding the savages of the world.

115

We just had another shaker here in SD.

The march to the sea begins!

Posted by: Jim in San Diego at July 07, 2010 07:55 PM (oIp16)

If so many people wern't in Coronado this wouldn't have happened.  Please move to Barstow to balance out the state.

116

It's starting to look like a jobs program rather than a military...which is exactly what the Left wants.

Remember the "meals on wheels" military during the Clinton years?

117

The march to the sea begins!

Posted by: Jim in San Diego at July 07, 2010 07:55 PM (oIp16)

How long do you think before I should start looking for beachfront in Arizona?

118

If so many people wern't in Coronado this wouldn't have happened.  Please move to Barstow to balance out the state.

Posted by: Hank Johnson at July 07, 2010 07:58 PM (0pYSi)

It's OK, we're counterbalancing Guam.

119

Ann is correct and it is sort of sad to see Republicans forget that they used to be nearly knee jerks against foreign wars.

There is absolutely NO FUCKING way we reform Afghanistan...none, zero, zilch and furthermore even if it were remotely possible, it isn't, we shouldn't do it.

We should adopt this strategy for all future wars against the muslim motherfuckers...fund terror we bomb you then the Marines and Army come in and fuck up everything in 3 short months and then we leave...with a warning, fuck up again and we will be back worse.

I motherfucking hate Steele because I think he is a bozo but just like a broken fucking clock he got this right once.

120

How long do you think before I should start looking for beachfront in Arizona?

Posted by: robtr at July 07, 2010 08:00 PM (fwSHf)

Not long.

121

Once again I will state: I believe Genghis Khan did a moderately decent job of subduing Afghanistan...so the place isn't always the graveyard of empire.

 

You just have to be willing to use the right sort of tactics and be willing to use the right sort of imperial structure.

But Ann makes the point, and I agree, we are not able to do that -- A-stan is important geographically, not socio-politically other than keeping a presence there to make sure Iran is between a rock and a hard place, and Pakistan makes sure to be good boys and girls.  Nation building is quite a futile experiment, and this is only going to keep our troops occupied in a ridiculous cause and dying (which, I'm not so sure wasn't the plan all along -- the Dems distrust the military; they like seeing them tied into knots and dying for both practical and ideological reasons).

122
yeah, and I remember when Phil Hartman did his funny skit of Clinton jogging and stopping at a McDonalds (which really happened) and talked about the economy while eating a Big Mac...

which has nothing to do with this topic, but I just remembered it.

123

How long do you think before I should start looking for beachfront in Arizona?

Posted by: robtr at July 07, 2010 08:00 PM (fwSHf)

If you start now you will get the best price.

124

So you are in favor of another 9/11. Wonderful.

Posted by: Methos at July 07, 2010 07:53 PM

Afghan-centric belief system:

1) All roads start in Afghanistan.
2) All roads end in Afghanistan.
3) The Sun revolves around Afghanistan.
4) The moon revolves around Afghanistan.
5) The stars revolve around Afghanistan.
6) If the United States does not keep sufficient troop mass and Unicorns Islamic Nation Building and winning Hearts-and Minds in Afghanistan, the orbital stability of the Earth will become unbalanced and all Muslim terrorists will slide into America.

125 Ann C. (and Steele) are following the playbook the Democrats wrote under Bush.  No lie is too dishonest, no tactic is too underhanded.  Facts don't matter, it's pure image and emotion.  Total manipulation.

And you know what?  I don't mind.  The Democrats have corrupted American political and intellectual life, and we can't reverse the decay with carefully-reasoned George Will columns nobody reads.

If we'd learned those lessons back during Reagan's presidency we wouldn't be playing catch-up today.

126 #122  How long do you think before I should start looking for beachfront in Arizona?

As soon as I get those SS-18 Satan missiles...

127
Remember that?

Clinton was a jogger. He was a fat fuck, too. He used to 'jog' slower than my Aunt Connie would walk.


Clinton stopped jogging for the cameras by the end of 1993.

128

Once again I will state: I believe Genghis Khan did a moderately decent job of subduing Afghanistan...so the place isn't always the graveyard of empire.

He was decent.  Jenn Jiss Conn was much more effective though.

129

119 PoP,

yeah the warning got to me, I was unaware I was even near a line let alone right on the edge...in a thread where people were discussing packing heat in towns where it is illegal I said 2 things:

1) Janet reno burnt some folks alive

2) the founders baked the solution for tyranny in the cake so far as I know I was referring to the first amendment rather than some McVeigh Jihad....

 

I like it here and don't want to be banned.

On the Err War you forget that BillyJeff bombed 'ghani, Iraq, Kosovo, and pretty near wherever showed up on a map that could get the news cycle to glom over his issues.

We need to run either a hard or a soft war not both.....

not that I am advocating violence or hinting at the same...

Your Drone/ALCM diplomacy has been tried but without properly funding and running good humint there will not be enough intel for the precision campaign the US electorate demands.

130 Morons, we got to get out of there, cause it is so screwed up it can't be fixed.  We should have packed our trash in 2003 and left, planning on returning every 3 or 4 years when enough of the rats came out into the open to be easily killed.  It ain't worth saving.

131 Ok, which of you fellow losers just got laid against improbable odds?  We don't need the earth moving when we're up on the 17th floor dammit!

132 So just a question to Ace.

Is this one of those, 'critical analysis is bound to start a fight with my readership unless I write a 2 hour gagger chalk full of nuance which I don't feel like doing so I just cut/paste/post' posts?

(A CAIBTSAFWMRUIWA2HGCFONWIDFLDSIJCPP type Post for short)

133

"Is this a long-held belief I wasn't aware of?"

Nope, that's the great thing about a nation that has no real strategy in its wars.  Anyone can be for or against them at any point.  It makes sense that we don't have a strategy, since we can't even begin to describe who/what, exactly, we are fighting.

134

Once again I will state: I believe Genghis Khan did a moderately decent job of subduing Afghanistan...so the place isn't always the graveyard of empire.

Genghis Khan had a war fighting strategery that worked. He would knock on the door of a villiage and say "hey, I am going to put a small government here and you pay me taxes (usually less than they were paying) other than that, you don't fuck with my guys and we won't kill you, your family, your dogs, your farm animals and anything else that breaths. What do you say?"

135 "Land war in Asia" may be an allusion to Napoleon's and Hitler's attack of Russia.

Posted by: davidt at July 07, 2010 07:55 PM (HtIec)

Of course, the continent of Asia isn't land-locked, so talking about a "land war" there means something.  Afghanistan, on the other hand, is land-locked, so there is nothing but a land war there, essentially.

136

Ann is off the mark on this one- I've no idea why she thought this column was a good idea.

Steele is and was an idiot for his statement.  Can we turn Afghanistan into a modern, properous democracy?  No.  The country is full of backwards, illiterate Islamic tribalists who'd still be in the Stone Age if not for outside influence.

What we can do is weaken the Taliban and strengthen the Afghan goverment to the point that they can maintain some semblence of control over the country.

And her statement that Afghanistan didn't attack us on 9/11?  Come on.  They willingly harbored AQ even after 9/11.

137 Ok, which of you fellow losers just got laid against improbable odds?  We don't need the earth moving when we're up on the 17th floor dammit!

Posted by: bebe's boobs destroy at July 07, 2010 08:04 PM (cniXs)

It was your boobs and you know it! Sure try blaming it on the improbabilty of a moron getting laid. Nobody is going to buy that.

138

Once again I will state: I believe Genghis Khan did a moderately decent job of subduing Afghanistan...so the place isn't always the graveyard of empire.

 

unknown jane understands.  Genghis Khan wasn't going to leave the Afghans in his rear, so he killed everyone he could find.

139 Nobody thinks back on FDR as the first and only President to use nukes...because Truman was.

140

144 t-bird,

of course Harried was only Veep because he figured out that FDR was building bombs.

141 "Land war in Asia" may be an allusion to Napoleon's and Hitler's attack of Russia. Posted by: davidt at July 07, 2010 07:55 PM (HtIec)

Yeah.  Pretty sure it originates with Napoleon.

142 >>And her statement that Afghanistan didn't attack us on 9/11? Come on. They willingly harbored AQ even after 9/11. Pretty low bar. Can you name me a middle eastern country that didn't harbor al Qaeda or one of it's many tentacles?

143

147 Buzzion,

they don't all look like AfghanGirl dude

144

Maybe we can start broadcasting The Ed Morrissey Show throughout Afghanistan.

All the bad guys will die of suicide or boredom.

145

"Land war in Asia"

My proudest achievement.  Won the AVN movie of the year in 88.

146 She beats around the bush.  America can suffer the idiocy of Michael Steele far better than the idiocy of Obama.

147

150 DT,

 

cue snare drum

148 Saudi Arabia is one of the biggest backers of terrorism. Hell they even have telethons for it. They are our ally of course so it's all good.

149

Maybe we can start broadcasting The Ed Morrissey Show throughout Afghanistan.

All the bad guys will die of suicide or boredom.

Posted by: Dack Thrombosis at July 07, 2010 08:15 PM (P33XN)

With special guests John Boehner, Tim Pawlenty, George Pataki, and Mitch McConnell!

150 Saudi Arabia is one of the biggest backers of terrorism. Hell they even have telethons for it. They are our ally biggest contributor to presidential libraries of course so it's all good.

Posted by: Sharrukin at July 07, 2010 08:16 PM (eYgrz)

fify

151 I want an end to it as well.Especially if our brass continues to plan without considering the true motivation of the enemy.

152

This is my view of Afghanistan.  It is essentially two countries - the south that is overrun with Taliban and their ilk and many who support them, and the north where the Taliban are hated and killed out of hand when they are stupid enough to wonder there.  If it is to become successful, it should be divided just as Iraq should have been. 

I believe that the U.S. did something extremely noble in attempting to bring freedom to these countries but I also believe in my heart that it will not likely succeed. 

A lot of very bad people no longer share our air, and that is a good thing.  Unfortunately, because of the times we live in, they are replaced faster than they can be eliminated.  On the otherhand, perhaps a few good people are alive today who wouldn't have otherwise been.  In them is the long term hope for those countries.  Unfortunately, again imo, in the garden of Islam it is the weeds that flourish and I think in the end that philosophy will overcome the good.  Like a vacuum, Islam is insidious.

In the end, we did what was necessary for evil not to prevail - something.  I am thankful beyond measure that this country still produces the young people who answer the call when they are asked to do - something.

153

156,

ED: and since they have been guests on my shoe allow me to welcome back Sullivan, Johnson, weigel, and Colin Powell....

154 But then I point out the Mongols, the Manchus, and any one of a dozen other times that an invading army marched right over that stupid wall of theirs without a single life being lost.

Posted by: The Dread Pirate Neck Beard at July 07, 2010 08:16 PM (wOtDN)

The Mongols walked around the wall.

Just sayin' ...

155

fify

Posted by: robtr at July 07, 2010 08:18 PM (fwSHf)

Yeah, nice that the west has a pack of whores as leaders. Used to be folks like Churchill around every once in a while. We have to settle for Alvin Greene, Al Franken, John  McCain, and Obama.

156 In the end, what Coulter, Steele, and most others seem to miss is the simple truth of the situation:

All threats from the arab/persian/muslim world start and stop with their control of the gulf oil fields.

That is everything in a nutshell.

157

162 PoP,

one can make the argument that China has been conquered with great regularity on an almost cyclical basis....

"empires wax and empires wane" and all that.....

http://tinyurl.com/2bbqjxn

158 Having finally waded thru Ann's article - that repetitive cadence really gets to me - I finally see her point: Captain Training Pants should not be in charge of the military. If he's in charge, we should just withdraw. We can't possibly achieve American objectives because there aren't any. I can't figure out why Kristol is the headline, the story wasn't really about him.

159

Maybe we can start broadcasting The by dropping Ed Morrissey Show throughout on Afghanistan.

All the bad guys will die of suicide or boredom.

Posted by: Dack Thrombosis at July 07, 2010 08:15 PM

It'd confuse the hell out of 'em, that's for damn sure.

A lot of locals have died at HA...gotta wear Wellies when visiting to avoid getting all that squishiness on ya.

160 #162  The Mongols walked around the wall.

Fixed fortifications are monuments to man's stupidity.

161 Clinton was a jogger. He was a fat fuck, too. He used to 'jog' slower than my Aunt Connie would walk.


Clinton stopped jogging for the cameras by the end of 1993.

Posted by: i speak semaphor at July 07, 2010 08:03 PM (yIJXR)

Clinton was so disgusting looking in those running shorts with those pasty fat-woman legs; I don't know who the fat turd was trying to kid about staying in shape other than the clueless MFM idiots.  That shit was probably a holdover from Arkansas when he'd be dodging lamps from Muffer as he headed out the door.

162 Posted by: Hussein the Plumber at July 07, 2010 08:18 PM (r1h5M)

The Taliban are essentially the Pathan tribes, while the north has the Hazara, Tajiks, and some other one I can't recall at the moment. It's all tribal.

163 I don't believe anyone has yet commented on the 400 lb Gorilla in the Room.

164

164 PoP,

yeah I'd start with hitting those wells and work my way backwards....thank God we aren't allowed to develop our domestic production or ramp up shale huh?

 

 

165
Land war with Asia?

It was said by a muslim.

166 I blame Paul.

167

So the proper way to fight a war in Afghanistan is to kill all the men and fuck all the women.

Eh, I've heard worse ideas before.

Posted by: buzzion at July 07, 2010 08:12 PM (oVQFe)

I dunno about the fucking of the women - unintended consequences.  Some would concieve.  It would improve their gene pool and thus make them more dangerous.  Better to just kill everything that moves.  Besides - it's asking too much of our troops.  Every half attractive woman over there (all 6 of 'em) have had their faces burned off with acid thanks to their male family members.  The rest are clad in burkas and such for a good reason.  No man of Western heritage should have to dirty his manhood on one of them.

168

Maybe we can start broadcasting The Ed Morrissey Show throughout Afghanistan.

All the bad guys will die of suicide or boredom.

Posted by: Dack Thrombosis at July 07, 2010 08:15 PM (P33XN)

I do not agree with your thesis. However, we can spot a fine detail of being there just for the sake of being safe on our journey; In fact, dubious flimsling of the majority nationals can not be over-rided by a small balance in the power which is too marginal or sore. Face is smallish enough to dish a fish, if you meant that in your assertion. Trending lines or what-not are graphical enough for my program - stay tuned! And envy the ratings!

169 I don't believe anyone has yet commented on the 400 lb Gorilla in the Room.

Posted by: TXMarko at July 07, 2010 08:23 PM (7UZQ9)

How exactly is anyone planning on how to get that stuff out of there. Most of what that found has to be moved in hundreds of tons.

170

162 PoP,

one can make the argument that China has been conquered with great regularity on an almost cyclical basis....

"empires wax and empires wane" and all that.....

Posted by: sven10077 at July 07, 2010 08:22 PM (kq1lG)

Yep.  All the Chinese did with their wall was to stop themselves from venturing west and taking their turn at empire building.

And the funny thing about the whole "land war in Asia" idea is that the Mongols captured just about every inch of land in Asia through nothing but "land wars" (save the subcontinent, though the Mogols got the whole of that) and held most of it for centuries.

171 I buy that.

172 Not sure how long she has had this opinion, but in the last 6 months and hearing about the ROE's in effect, I joined the "if you aren't going to go gonzo for the win, what is the point" crowd.

Maybe Petraeus will change things.

173

I obviously hit a nerve with the Ed Morrissey crack.

God, he's a squish though, ain't he?

And he lives in Minnesota. Which is like being a communist, but not as bad.

174 I don't believe anyone has yet commented on the 400 lb Gorilla in the Room.

Posted by: TXMarko at July 07, 2010 08:23 PM (7UZQ9)

Ahh - but who is going to develop those resources?  Not us.  Europe?  China?  The owner of said mines, if not muslim, would suffer daily bombings of his assets.  The workers would be murdered regularly.  The savages living in that vile waste land will never allow it to be developed for anything wholesome and constructive.

 

175

@55: "john Ryan just volunteered to go to Afghanistan.

On a short bus."

------------------

The Very "Special" Forces! (A B+ Team, perhaps?)

M-4? Check.

Juice Box? Check.

Trained to use "inside voice" when on patrol? Check.

 

176

The war in Afghanistan isn't about Afghanistan and it never was.  It was and is about denying the Pakistani Inter-Services Intelligence Agency a country-sized laboratory for fomenting terrorism around the world to make Pakistan seem like a strategic linchpin while weakening its regional rivals.

Pakistan was supposed to serve as an anvil against which the ISAF hammer could pound the Taliban into dust.  For this, we gave Pakistan substantial amounts of aid money and military cooperation.  Pakistan turned out in actuality to be a shock absorber that protected the Taliban from our hammer blows;  we did not react by cutting off the aid money or offering other punishments for their treachery.

The Taliban, however, screwed up in one big way: they started murdering ordinary Pakistanis in the big cities.  That split the Pakistani leadership between, on the one side, the ISI elements supporting the Taliban as a strategic weapon and the Islamicists hoping to turn Pakistan into a shari'a paradise, and on the other side the democrats and modernizers who want Pakistan to lurch into the 21st century.  (It's hard to tell where the current President of Pakistan lies: he's the widower of a democratizing modernizer, but his nickname is 'Mr. Ten Percent' for the bribes and corruption he's been associated with, and he may see the Taliban as a useful tool for keeping US aid money flowing.)

Now the challenge is to turn Afghanistan into an anvil -- a no-go region for the Taliban, so that they can't keep soaking into one side of the border or another depending on which side is hitting them.  At the same time, it's imperative to make the Pakistanis understand that their future survival and prosperity depends on their breaking completely with the Taliban and their other pet terror groups.

If the West can't manage to put both halves of that AfPak strategy in place, then at some point we may have to withdraw from Afghanistan and tell the PAKISTANIS that if Afghanistan again becomes a base for terror operations against the West, it won't be just Afghanistan that gets pulverized.

177

Ahh - but who is going to develop those resources?  Not us.  Europe?  China?  The owner of said mines, if not muslim, would suffer daily bombings of his assets.  The workers would be murdered regularly.  The savages living in that vile waste land will never allow it to be developed for anything wholesome and constructive.

Posted by: Reactionary at July 07, 2010 08:30 PM (4nbyM)

Mercenaries and hefty bribes to the local headchoppers should get the job done. Private companies could get it done if the money was good enough.

178 >>I haven't seen evidence that Kuwait did, but I'm not sure I'd bet on it, either. Kuwait is a pretty tiny country that has been a transit point for the US military ever since the first Gulf war. They don't have tons of space nor the anonymity to harbor terrorists. But their incredible wealth has allowed them to be one of the biggest per capita funders of radical Islam for decades. Before, during and after the first Gulf war.

179 #162  The Mongols walked around the wall.

Fixed fortifications are monuments to man's stupidity.



Ja Ja!

180 A bleak Ghazni Province seems to offer little, but a Pentagon study says it may have among the worldÂ’s largest deposits of lithium.

Great, there might be just enough lithium to inject the local psycho population.

181 Posted by: FeralCat at July 07, 2010 08:02 PM (r/vci)

I stand corrected.  There apparently is a fair amount of foolhardy cowardice on the Right.  Make no mistake, if we run, the carnage will be here again.  That is the consequence you choose if you take the position of retreat at all costs.

182 174 I blame Paul.

Posted by: K at July 07, 2010 08:24 PM (bfcmA)   You might be able to blame him for Germany's loss to Spain in the World Cup semi-final, but for the war in Afghanistan?

183 Ja Ja!

Posted by: Gerd von Rundstedt Circumventing the Maginot at July 07, 2010 08:33 PM (0q2P7)

Give me enough gas and I'll go through the West Wall like shit through a goose.

184 I stand corrected.  There apparently is a fair amount of foolhardy cowardice on the Right.  Make no mistake, if we run, the carnage will be here again.  That is the consequence you choose if you take the position of retreat at all costs.

Posted by: Methos at July 07, 2010 08:34 PM (Xsi7M)

Maybe before you start calling people cowards you could tell us what your plan is. The one we have now is not working.

185 I don't believe anyone has yet commented on the 400 lb Gorilla in the Room.

And maybe if everything goes really really well, our great grand kids will get to see some lithium batteries from the then industrialized Afghanistan. I fail to see the current relevance. Unless you promote annexing Afghanistan.

_{(Which might make Russia just a little pissed)}

186

Mercenaries and hefty bribes to the local headchoppers should get the job done. Private companies could get it done if the money was good enough.

Posted by: Sharrukin at July 07, 2010 08:31 PM (eYgrz)

Perhaps.  But I contend that the more likely scenario is one where the developers have to give the local talibs a cut of the profit, thus financing their activities. 

187 I already hit Ann.

188
...or perhaps the Pentagon is putting out disinformation or misinformation, or whatever it's called.

You know how MLB teams will doctor up reports of its farm players or vets they want to trade?

Maybe the Pentagon is trying to get other countries to invest in Afghanistan to take some of the burden off the U.S.

189 The Sock that Wouldn't Die IV!

190

198 MtM,

do you suddenly feel a lot more "fargo nice" from hanging in there that long?

191 Didn't muslims invent lithium?

192
Germany lost?

hahahaha!

193

Perhaps.  But I contend that the more likely scenario is one where the developers have to give the local talibs a cut of the profit, thus financing their activities. 

Posted by: Reactionary at July 07, 2010 08:38 PM (4nbyM)

You still can't get the shit out of the country. there is no power to refine it there so it's more managable. There are no roads no railways no ocean.

What are you going to do with the Trillions of tons of ore?

194

Perhaps.  But I contend that the more likely scenario is one where the developers have to give the local talibs a cut of the profit, thus financing their activities. 

Posted by: Reactionary at July 07, 2010 08:38 PM (4nbyM)

Well, yeah... they are certainly in the head chopping business.

195 I already hit Ann.

Posted by: Skinny Stick at July 07, 2010 08:38 PM (7+pP9)

Hey now.  "Too skinny" is easy to fix, as most of us know.  Too fat, on the other hand...

196 Did any of the southern California morons feel the 5.4 and subsequent 3.0's earlier?

197 Bomb bridges, airports, dams, electrical plants, transmission lines, factories, and oil wells... essentially knock back their economy to square 1... then go home.

Fucking right. They harbored our enemies and continue to do so. They treat their own people abominably. Go medieval on them; it's the only thing they understand. Coulter's wrong on this. We have a pussy CiC, but we can win Afghanistan. At least Obama doesn't seem any more interested in this than any of his other actual responsibilities. There's a good chance our soldiers can achieve victory despite Obama. It's a depressing thought, but elections have consequences. That doesn't change the mission, just the deadline.

198 Frankly,I don't give a shit if there is a bloodbath in Afghanistan after we leave.As long as they don't harbor our enemies or fuck with our interests they can continue to be the savages they have always been.

199

Pretty low bar. Can you name me a middle eastern country that didn't harbor al Qaeda or one of it's many tentacles?

Overtly, with full government support?

Big difference between AQ having a camp in a loosely governed part of the country and being official guests.

Might some countries have previously turned a blind eye?  Sure.  But keep in mind that AQ posed a threat to middle eastern countries deemed insufficiently islamic as well as the West.  Few wanted a major AQ presence in their country out of sheer self-preservation.

200 All threats from the arab/persian/muslim world start and stop with their control of the gulf oil fields.

That is everything in a nutshell.

Posted by: progressoverpeace at July 07, 2010 08:21 PM (Qp4DT)

Some say that the modern suicide bomb (the individual willing to wear explosives on his or her body) was perfected by the Tamil Tigers.  The Tigers were funded by the great Tamil diaspora of businesspeople, much like NORAID funding the IRA.

Pakistan has its own diaspora providing terror support.  If the Saudis and other Gulf Arabs decided to cut off funding to the madrassas in Pakistan, they would make up the lost funding from their expatriates.

201

Frankly,I don't give a shit if there is a bloodbath in Afghanistan after we leave.As long as they don't harbor our enemies or fuck with our interests they can continue to be the savages they have always been.

Amen. The British were masters of turning one side against another in their various possessions and then moving in to mop up the leftover turds. Shit worked for centuries.

202

Might some countries have previously turned a blind eye?  Sure.  But keep in mind that AQ posed a threat to middle eastern countries deemed insufficiently islamic as well as the West.  Few wanted a major AQ presence in their country out of sheer self-preservation.

Posted by: Hollowpoint at July 07, 2010 08:44 PM (plsiE)

How many of the 9/11 hijackers were from Saudi Arabia again, i forget?

203
Bomb bridges, airports, dams, electrical plants, transmission lines, factories, and oil wells... essentially knock back their economy to square 1... then go home.



Whoa! Whoa! Whoa! Waitaminute. Let's not get ahead of ourselves and act rashly.

First we transport all the Palestinians over there. Then we bomb and then we leave.

204 205 Did any of the southern California morons feel the 5.4 and subsequent 3.0's earlier?
----------------
Strong rolling way up here in Ridgecrest for the 5.4. I barely felt one of the aftershocks.

I'm expecting a rabid Richard Hoagland to be on Coast to Coast AM tonight to blame it on A) all of the oil leaking out of the gulf unbalancing the continent and B) the impending solar eclipse and then insist this means it's more likely that bad things will happen to the gulf seafloor due to the eclipse.

No, it doesn't make sense, but if I wanted to listen to sense, I wouldn't be listening to Coast to Coast in the first place.

205

Maybe before you start calling people cowards you could tell us what your plan is. The one we have now is not working.

Posted by: robtr at July 07, 2010 08:36 PM (fwSHf)

Let's help the Indian government propose a mutual defense and development pact with the Afghan government: the Indians get a first crack at exploiting the mineral wealth in Afghanistan and assist the Afghans in keeping the Taliban out.  India would love that deal for two reasons: it would hem in Pakistan, and it would have a huge profit potential.

Then we can tell Pakistan that if they want to keep the Indians from taking over Afghanistan, they need to eradicate the Taliban and their other pet terror groups and expel Al Qaeda and other Islamic radical movements from the region.

Worth a shot.

206

Pakistan has its own diaspora providing terror support.  If the Saudis and other Gulf Arabs decided to cut off funding to the madrassas in Pakistan, they would make up the lost funding from their expatriates.

Posted by: Gen. George S. Patton at July 07, 2010 08:45 PM (7AOgy)

Pakistan just had to come begging to the US for money so that their whole country didn't go bankrupt - literally.  I doubt that without gulf oil money there would be even nearly enough money available to Pakistan to cause many problems, let alone allow them to be working on nukes.

As to the rest of the arab/persian/muslim world, they would have nothing without petro-dollars.  And it is not only that they would be out of money, but they would have no political power or any power at all.  Every bit of power in the arab/persian/muslim world - military, political, financial, ... - comes right out of the oil fields.  Without those fields, the arab/persian/muslim world would have enough problems just feeding themselves, and the rest of the world would have about as much interest in them as the world has in 800 million Hindus.  Zero.

207 Let's make NASA send the Taliban to the fucking moon.

208

How many of the 9/11 hijackers were from Saudi Arabia again, i forget?

Posted by: robtr at July 07, 2010 08:46 PM (fwSHf)

Hijackers:
Mohamed Atta al Sayed (Egyptian)
Waleed al-Shehri (Saudi Arabian)
Wail al-Shehri (Saudi Arabian)
Abdulaziz al-Omari (Saudi Arabian)
Satam al-Suqami (Saudi Arabian)
Marwan al-Shehhi (United Arab Emirates)
Fayez Banihammad (United Arab Emirates)
Mohand al-Shehri (Saudi Arabian)
Hamza al-Ghamdi (Saudi Arabian)
Ahmed al-Ghamdi (Saudi)
Hani Hanjour (Saudi Arabian)
Khalid al-Mihdhar (Saudi Arabian)
Majed Moqed (Saudi Arabian)
Nawaf al-Hazmi (Saudi Arabian)
Salem al-Hazmi (Saudi Arabian)
Ziad Jarrah (Lebanese)
Ahmed al-Haznawi (Saudi Arabian)
Ahmed al-Nami (Saudi Arabian)
Saeed al-Ghamdi (Saudi Arabian)

No Syrians, Libyans, Sudanese, Iraqis, Afghans.

All of them nationals from our good friends and allies.

209

The RNC called me last night asking whether they could count on me for a contribution again this year and I told them that they could not. The gentleman and I spoke  for several minutes and he revealed that he had heard repeated complaints about Chrm. Steele throughout the day. He implored of me to consider, instead, that the RNC was able to reach candidates in places that may be unknown to me, but who could make a difference in the future of the country. I countered that the message that Chrm. Steele is sending makes me question whether he is just really lousy at giving speeches and at making a point, or if he might actually be leading the committee down a winding path to laughin-stock.

In the end, he relented, and I assured him that I would simply cut out the middle-man, but continue to donate to worthy candidates.

Now, I have to admit, Coulter has framed the argument in terms that have caused me to think. Albeit, with her usual dripping sarcasm, but she makes a few good points and, perhaps, I've been suffering a bit of short-term memory loss because I, too, recall clearly the claims of the "just" war rather than the "occupation" in that other, innocent country.

In the end, I'm still not donating to the RNC as Michael Steele still can't communicate for shit, and Ann Coulter can't follow him around with her hand up his ass all the time.

210

Muslims invented oil but they also knew it had to bake in the ground for a thousand years.

These people are fucking genius!

211 Afghanistan may in some ways be the hardest campaign the U.S. military has ever fought. It is also necessary. If we give up, we are announcing to the world that we are surrendering this territory to our gangster enemies. We are letting them resume control of the base from which they organized 9/11. We are implying that they can have any other territory they want as long as they can make a big enough mess there. We're also saying to the people there who have supported us and fought with us: "Suckers!" We're saying to the millions of people there who want to live in a free and decent country: "You're screwed!" Ask yourself this: if you lived in Afghanistan, what would you want the U.S. to do? I said this was hard. Afghanistan is a poor country, badly damaged by the Soviets and the Taliban, with some serious cultural dysfunctionalities. But the world has two choices (and in this area we stand in for the world). One is to build a functional nation in Afghanistan. The other is to abandon Afghanistan to the gangsters and fanatics - and then wait for the next 9/11 to come out of the re-established terror base.

212 We should have gone in after 9/11, identified as many Taliban strongholds as possible, bombed the shit out of them for a few week...then gone home.
The place is unfixable, uncontrollable, and unwinnable--short of nuking it flat.  Kind of like inner city Chicago.

213

184 170 I don't believe anyone has yet commented on the 400 lb Gorilla in the Room.

Posted by: TXMarko at July 07, 2010 08:23 PM (7UZQ9)

Damn little pussy.

 

  

214

How many of the 9/11 hijackers were from Saudi Arabia again, i forget?

Adam Gadahn is from America.  Does that mean we bomb ourselves?

No question there are Saudis that run off to join AQ, and other who send money their way.  The last thing their government wants is AQ setting up shop in their country though- AQ has attacked Saudi Arabia and has called for ousting the Saudi regime for hosting American military bases.

215

This is the rebuttal to Chris Matthews ridiculous predictions from this video.

What is MSNBCÂ’s Chris Matthews Thinking?

Once you watch this video, youÂ’ll be wondering the same thing. ItÂ’s baffling.

216

He implored of me to consider, instead, that the RNC was able to reach candidates in places that may be unknown to me, but who could make a difference in the future of the country.

I'd simply say I was a news junkie with a Michael Barone like knowledge of congressional districts, and tell him to take a flying leap.

No money for the RNC from me.

217 Posted by: Rich Rostrom at July 07, 2010 08:53 PM (mMAAC)

Heartwarming story of coexistence with Islam.
Posted by: Not Your Granddaddy's NASA at July 07, 2010 05:31 PM (xxgag)

Maybe you should read this from the other thread and then come back to talk about Muslim gratitude. How many decades has Israel been providing free shit for the Muslims?

218 Chris Matthews is a seriously insane man. No sarcasm intended. I have met him on multiple occasions and have sat across from him at dinner. The dude is not to be taken seriously. People who do are idiots.

219 Those of us who stood up for W's two war strategy said that the genius of it all was that we were avoiding the USSR style massive invasion force and working with friendlyish locals. Thus avoiding protracted everwar. Anne is awesome because she points out that, um, that strategy seems to have changed. elections have consequences...don't cha know?

220

184 170 I don't believe anyone has yet commented on the 400 lb Gorilla in the Room.

Posted by: TXMarko at July 07, 2010 08:23 PM (7UZQ9)

It is the elephant in the room that everyone ignores.

The 800 pound gorilla is the one that "gets anything it wants".

221
hahaha, Dan, I knew that was you.

It's nice to see our Mitt spammer, again.

222

224 Dan,

I assure you sir, I have not been in his head in a long, long time....

223 Maybe we can start broadcasting The by dropping Ed Morrissey Show throughout on Afghanistan.

It would be as surreal as The Stay Puff Marshmallow Man destroying Manhattan.

224

I stand corrected. There apparently is a fair amount of foolhardy cowardice on the Right. Make no mistake, if we run, the carnage will be here again. That is the consequence you choose if you take the position of retreat at all costs.

Posted by: Methos at July 07, 2010 08:34 PM

Post-Modern COIN-age of a Failed Policy—McChrystal, Tocqueville, and the Koran (Andrew Bostom):

We have only two legitimate strategic interests in so-called “Af-Pak”:

1) First and foremost, seizing and destroying or removing PakistanÂ’s nukes

2) Second, destroying Afghanistan’s –and the Taliban’s—odious “cash crop”–opium

If the US is unwilling to pursue these two basic strategic aims, we should withdraw, lest our brave combat soldiers–subjected as they are to our heinous, COIN-based ROEs–become victim to the hopeless malaise characterized so aptly by Rudyard Kipling in his “The Young British Soldier”

When youÂ’re wounded and left on AfghanistanÂ’s plains
And the women come out to cut up what remains
Just roll to your rifle and blow out your brains

McChrystalÂ’s superficial, bowdlerized pieties on the Koran, and PetraeusÂ’ complete neglect of this foundational Islamic text, contrast starkly with the contemplative, first hand observations on the Koran (and Islam) made by Alexis de Tocqueville. Shortly after his return from America, Tocqueville studied North African Islamic culture and history which included an analysis of the Koran and made two visits to Algeria, becoming one of the foremost experts on these matters, while serving as a French parliamentarian.

The entire COIN strategy is a fraud perpetuated on the American people on a level with Al GoreÂ’s Global Warming. The idea that we are going to spend a trillion dollars to reshape the culture of the Islamic world is utter nonsense.

BTW, since YOU brought up cowardice, Methos, what MOS have you ever had and in what war?

at MOS have you ever had and in what war?

225 Chris Matthews is a seriously insane man. No sarcasm intended. I have met him on multiple occasions and have sat across from him at dinner. The dude is not to be taken seriously. People who do are idiots.

Posted by: rawmuse at July 07, 2010 08:58 PM (gQWi+)

True dat.  Dude went on Medved and dropped two cuss words in the same interview.  He sounded drunk.  A guy who has been in front of a camera should know better.

226

225 Delta Smelt,

ordinarily I would argue that we should not allow the mules to have the advantage of a national management team versus none for us BUT after seeing the DNC suggest the donks run on the economy I am not sure I want a national management team to come up with great ideas like that for the GOP....

 

"hey I know let's pretend we wish we had voited for Ogabecare!"

227 "It's one, two, three, four what are we fighting for? Don't tell me, I don't give a damn! Next stop is Afghanistan."

228 >>Might some countries have previously turned a blind eye? Sure. But keep in mind that AQ posed a threat to middle eastern countries deemed insufficiently islamic as well as the West. Few wanted a major AQ presence in their country out of sheer self-preservation. Not disagreeing. Islam is as much a political movement as it is a religion and it is pervasive throughout the middle east. My point was that harboring al Qaeda was not something unique to Afghanistan post 9/11. The only way we are going to win over there is with a hugely unpopular leader, particularly with our betters in the region formerly know as Europe, who is willing to do what Bush did but on steroids and with even less rationalizing. Kick ass, figure out why you aren't kicking ass faster and then institute a better plan that kicks ass better. Keep going until this shit is extinguished for good because if you don't it will just come back again. It has since before our nation was founded. I'm not sure we are up to that as a country anymore. We'd rather buy them off with NASA outreach programs.

229

no no no, it's the bull in the china shop that everyone ignores

230

Adam Gadahn is from America.  Does that mean we bomb ourselves?

California? sure why not?

231

"hey I know let's pretend we wish we had voited for Ogabecare!"

Posted by: sven10077 at July 07, 2010 09:01 PM (kq1lG)

I think the next time they call I will "deem" them 1000 bucks.

232

Feel good story of the day

An apartment renter reportedly used his handgun to save himself and his family from an armed home invader who had forced them all into a bathroom.

Police say at about 5:30am, a home invader, who was armed with a handgun, forced his way inside an apartment in the Wellsford Oaks complex in Tusla, OK.  The robber is said to have pointed his gun at the residents before forcing them into a bathroom.  One of the residents was able to grab his own gun and shoot the intruder through the bathroom door, according to police.  The injured robber reportedly fled, leaving the homeowners without any serious injuries.  A suspect, reportedly identified as Melvin Dan, was apprehended at a local hospital when he sought treatment for his gunshot wound, and was charged with armed robber and possession of a firearm during the commission of a felony, according to news reports

233 robtr@193
Maybe before you start calling people cowards you could tell us what your plan is. The one we have now is not working.

'Before" like comment #14 maybe?  The choices available to us are
A)Support the war with Obama as CinC, or the "endless war" option.  In 2012, we elect someone who's serious about kicking muslim ass.  Removing Obama before then is not an option because you get "retreat at all costs" Biden in charge, which is effectively
B)Demand the troops come home and pretend there are no consequences.  This is apparently the option FeralCat@129 wants and deserves to be called cowardice.  If you don't like it, tough.  Sometimes people have to be shamed into finding their spine.
C)Demand the troops come home, and acknowledge it will cost us a city or two sooner rather than later.  I have a feeling Ace will complain if I support this option too loudly.
D)Demand the troops come home and intend to send them back two and a half years from now when we have a real President.  This obviously is bullshit on it's face, but the events implied in C make this the likely end of that road.  Except that when we send the troops in the second time there will be noone to work with becaust the Taliban will decorate trees with everyone who helped us.

Of those options, I take A.  I would prefer to nuke the snot out of it and walk away (probably the best option for Iran at this point), but that isn't an available option at this point.

234 Wasn't Mr. Natural from Afghanistan?

235

@95: "Afghanistan has repeatedly defeated the most powerful armies in the world.  Alexander the Great, the British - twice, the Russians"

Of course, all of the above gave at least as good as they got, and the Brits went in with stuff like the Tirah Expedition and whooped the bejesus out of the Afghans.

Further, absolutely no one has ever gone in an unleashed their full might against the Afghans - not even the Soviets.  (We seem to be making the same mistake.)

Fighting the Afghans has never really been the problem, so long as you take them seriously.  Sticking around to try and govern them is the rub....(again, we seem to be making the same mistake.)

236

1) First and foremost, seizing and destroying or removing PakistanÂ’s nukes

Posted by: FeralCat at July 07, 2010 09:00 PM (r/vci)

Bingo.  After 9/11, this was the most important objective, though it quickly got lost in the "religion of peace" crap.

Of course, Afghanistan needed to suffer the consequences of its decision to go to war against America and to be reduced to a point where it no longer posed any threat.  After that, a friendly dictator who could control the country was the finishing touch that was needed.

The Afghans made their own bed and they should have been forced to sleep in it.

237

Clinton was a jogger

Bill Clinton in jogging shorts?? (sigh)

I'll be in my bunk...fap...fap...fap

238

This is apparently the option FeralCat@129 wants and deserves to be called cowardice. If you donÂ’t like it, tough. Posted by: Methos at July 07, 2010 09:04 PM

Since you are so brave, Keyboard Ranger, I again ask you – what was your MOS and in what war?

239

@118: "Granny, Whenever people make a list of armies that failed to conquer Afghanistan - they fail to mention who did and how -- the Mongols, think stacks of skulls."

*ahem*

Stacks of skulls are for pussies.

Mountains of skulls are better. Caedite eos.  Who really cares if God knows his own or not....

240 Of those options, I take A.  I would prefer to nuke the snot out of it and walk away (probably the best option for Iran at this point), but that isn't an available option at this point.

Posted by: Methos at July 07, 2010 09:04 PM (Xsi7M)

So your plan is to kill them all? Ok I don't have a problem with that. It's the only plan that will work IMO so fine.

When you find your mythical Presidential Candidate that runs on the platform of eliminating life in Astan let me know. Since none exist though that is pretty much a bullshit plan.

241 I get what she is saying, and it kind of, almost, explains Steele but I think - think - she is putting words in his mouth. As I read it, she is saying that Afghanistan is the war of Obama's choosing - because he chose it as his war, the Good War, over the evil terrible Bush War in Iraq. And not just him, all the fakey-fake chickenhawk liberals who were all like, we didn't finish the job! The same ones that are all like, hey, next year this time we are outta here, no matter what. (If this is what Steele meant, then retroactively, good on him, but phooey on him for not being able to say it that way) If Afghanistan is going badly, hang it around Obama's neck the same way they hung Iraq on GWB. Except it isn't totally a turnabout is fair play, because we aren't cheering on the Taliban so we can say in your face Obama, we are saying, hey, if we are just planning to quit this thing without winning, we might as well quit now. Right? Also, where is Osama? I recall being assured by Candidate Obama that he would kill bin Laden. I am guessing the President must have some intel that UBL is hiding out at a country club.

242

250 Blaster,

Thanks for the heads up, now the great satan's minion's exhortations all make sense.....

 

I'll have to hide at the haganDas factory next to avoid the SecState

243 Now, here's how the gameplan the dems would follow:  We let Coulter's opinion form a groundswell that leads to the popular position that we get out of the 'stan.  Then we blame Obama for losing the Afghanistan war.  Consequently, the dems whine and point fingers saying that Ann Coulter wanted out of the war, to which, we say, since when does anyone in decision-making positions listen to Ann Coulter?

244

I guess when all is said and done Annie is the canary in the coalmine for the great schism in the GOP...you have the decorum desperados and the out Alinsky the mules marauders....

I am the latter.

245

@168: "Fixed fortifications are monuments to man's stupidity."

Worry more about jeeps and truck, Georgie-boy.  We'll keep our forts.

246

“It’s one, two, three, four what are we fighting for? Don’t tell me, I don’t give a damn! Next stop is Afghanistan.”

Posted by: Country Joe at July 07, 2010 09:01 PM

Five, six, seven eight
Open up the Pearly Gate
DonÂ’t got time to wonder why
Whoopee, weÂ’re all gonna die!

247 111 Near as I can tell that makes about half of the Moronosphere clueless fucks. So you are in favor of another 9/11. Wonderful. Posted by: Methos at July 07, 2010 07:53 PM (Xsi7M) Exactly!!1!!1! How wonderfully perceptive!1!!!!1 You must be King of the Morons!1!1!1!!!11

248 They seek him here, they seek him there
Those Special Ops seek him everywhere
If you should see him, please do give a yell!
That demmed elusive OBL

They seek him here, they seek him there
The Special Ops seek him everywhere
Oh, Binny, how the Special Ops do implore you
Simply to come out from hiding in a mosque or in a cab or from under your bed
With all your hiding
ItÂ’s a chore to smash your fracken head!

They seek him here, they seek him there
The Special Ops seek him everywhere!
He gives the Special Ops nothing but frustration
Sink me! HeÂ’s a spoilsport
Each and every demmed capture
He cuts short

They seek him here, they seek him there
Those Special Ops seek him everywhere
Is he in Pakistan or Londonistan or even in Dearbornistan?
One thing I can tell you General McQuixote
If he be still alive he sure ainÂ’t likely in Afghanistan!

249 If he be still alive..... Would he let his second banana make all the video clips?He dead and has been for some time,no matter what CIA "voice analysts" say.

250 Afghanistan has a trillion dollars worth of scarce resources. That is a great reason to stay put.
If I were President, I'd tell Karzai, "We've kept your worthless, lying, crooked ass alive and in power for seven years. So you're going to give us 67% of all the mineral exploitation contracts in this country, or we're going to be negotiating with your successor, if you know what I mean, and I'm damn sure you do. The Chinese, Russians and Europeans can split the other 33%. Hind tit or none at all.
Then we use our armed forces to protect our ridiculously lucrative mineral deposits, and the Chinese, Russians, et. al., do the same.
Screw nation building. Let's put this war on a paying basis.

251 South Vietnam had a lousy government but the people deserved better.We betrayed them.I don't bellieve we owe the people of Afghanistan anything.

252 Of course, UBL is dead. The Taliban is not a threat to the US. I think that the Afghans can kick them out if they want. I think too many parts don't want. But if they start playing host to AQ again, bomb, rinse, repeat.

253

139  That is exactly it -- and a big key to the success of the Mongols (and the Romans when they were on their game -- they did tax more heavily and the whole lip service about the emperor being a god, but hey, the roads, baths, and aquaducts take some cash, and emperors have big egos -- just play along and we'll get along).  There are two rules to that sort of empire:

1)don't really fuck with the way the natives want to live -- outside of making some changes that make it easier for your guys to live there; it is primarily a business deal revolving around trade and taxes

2)you have to have a good, well equipped military and not be afraid to use it...in a completely ruthless fashion; they understood the idea of "better to be feared than loved"...if they think of fucking with you; you use them as an example of why that really isn't a good idea

Go killing the hell out of the south of Astan and the north will love you for it -- so it isn't an insurmountable thing...if you're willing to be ruthless.

254 259 No fucking chance!We don't fully exploit our OWN resources and are scared shit of looking like imperialists.

255 When you find your mythical Presidential Candidate that runs on the platform of eliminating life in Astan let me know. Since none exist though that is pretty much a bullshit plan.

Probably true.  In which case the "endless war" option still results in fewer overall American dead than the "run with our tails between our legs and think happy thoughts" option.  FeralCat had some good suggestions in hypothetical above, and progressoverpeace's usual plan to liberate the oilfields from muslim control solves all our problems, but there is similarly no will in DC or anyone who's likely to be there in the next decade to do those things.  So while a shitty option, "endless war" remains the best available.

256 262 if you're willing to be ruthless..... Which we ain't.

257

@217: "All of them nationals from our good friends and allies."

The leaders were all radicalized in Britain and Germany - other allies. 

258 Beware the Allahwock, my valant one!
The jaws that bite, the claws that catch!
Beware the Mohmoh bird, and shun
The frumious sirasnatch!

Colonel West took his vorpal sword in hand
Long time the Korxome foe he sought
So rested he by an old oak tree
And stood awhile in thought

And as in thought he stood
The  Allahwock's Mohmoh bird seeking the west to put to sword and flame
Came whiffling through the tugly wood
And burbled something about cartoons as it came!

One, two!
Red, White and Blue!
The Colonel's  vorpal blade went snicker-snack!
He left the Allahwock's Mohmoh bird dead, and with its head
He went gallantphing back

And will thou also slay the Allahwock?
Call me to arms, my beamish knight!
O frabjous day! Callooh!
Callay!
With you leading we
will win this epic fight!

259 Hs anyone here read Petraeus COIN strategy and McChrystals version of it?I did.I am starting to ,believe a certain intelligence coup and good luck did more to win Iraq than Petraeus.

260 268 Our generals are now PC pussywhipped to the point of being incapable of winning a war like this,or maybe any war.The troops and lower ranks are fine.

261 263 259 No fucking chance!We don't fully exploit our OWN resources and are scared shit of looking like imperialists.

Posted by: steevy at July 07, 2010 09:29 PM (6rilO)

I said, "If I were President." The current shitheel would never do this, and probably not anyone with a remote chance of election in 2012. That said, I still think its the thing to do.

However, since no one will, the second best stagety is to withdraw, sell the Afghans weaponry, and munch popcorn as we watch the Chinese fight the AQ/Taliban to protect their mines and mineral exploration expeditions. Hilarity (and carnage) will ensue, I assure you.

262

The leaders were all radicalized in Britain and Germany - other allies. 

Posted by: The Swiss at July 07, 2010 09:31 PM (ySNz/)

Well Osama Bin Ladin was trained and equipped by the U.S.

No one in the west is willing to face the fact that ISLAM is the enemy those name none dare speak. Not terrorism, not radical Islam, not Islamo-fascists, not Islamists, not the 'Religion of Peace'. Just plain jane Islam. The American navy came into existance due to Muslim piracy so this is not a new war, but part of one much older.

263 270 Sorry,I missed your caveat.We are in agreement.

264



ahhh, the lovey strains of "chickenhawk serenade" never get old.

265 Methos, How about we suddenly get upset that Iran has been having AQ as guests for a while and arming the Taliban and killing our soldiers in Iraq. We still have a crapload of troops in Iraq. Let's draw a charge, get Iran to invade, cut them up like the piece of crap Middle Eastern power they are, and while the Revolutionary Guard is busy getting their asses kicked, we spread money like water on the pro-democracy groups. Change that regime we don't have to worry about their nuke program. Or support of Hizb'allah or Hamas. And then Syria will look not so tough.... I still think that W and Rumsfeld's biggest mistake was not just saying screw it, if you guys are going to say we are here to set up an empire in the Middle East, we'll just go ahead and do it. When that statue of Saddam came down, shoulda left wheeled the whole damn Army and sent it up the highway to Damascus. M1s could have been parked on Boy Assad's front lawn by sundown.

266 Sorry to see Ann go down the Schlussel road to idiocy. I am no big fan of Kristol necessarily but Steele's wording on this issue was very unhelpful. He makes it sound as if we would have been out of Afghanistan right now if not for the Democrats. That is patently false. Yes, the COIN strategy may be flawed but to act as if the only reason we are there is because of Obama is loony. It is one of many gaffes he has committed.

He trashed Rush, a guy Ann calls a friend (he was forced to apologize), wrote a book promoting himself and outlining a strategy for the party and told no one about it before it was published, flip-flopped on abortion in the span of 2 days, said the Republicans might not deserve to be returned to power, said blacks have no reason to vote for Republicans, and accused his own party of racism against HIM. His primary job, which is raising money, he is doing badly, and and he has spent alot of money frivolously. Key donors and grass roots supporters are turning to other organizations in droves as this guy has become a laughingstock. His failure couldn't be more complete.

And yet, for whatever reason, Ann seems to have bet the ranch on a moron and doesn't want to admit she was wrong. EVEN IF you could rationalize he is a good guy who has made a few blunders and misstatements, it doesn't matter. His credibility is in tatters and he needs to go. He won't go though because he puts himself before the party.

I think there needs to be a debate on whether nation building is a viable strategy for Afghanistan but to claim this is Obama's war now is as bad as Reid saying "this war is lost".  We need to be intellectually honest, the guy running things now is Patraeus, is he now an asshole pursuing failure?  No.

267

Has anyone here read Petraeus COIN strategy and McChrystals version of it?I did.I am starting to ,believe a certain intelligence coup and good luck did more to win Iraq than Petraeus.

Posted by: steevy at July 07, 2010 09:32 PM

I got through the chapter on Hearts and Minds but fell asleep about half way through the chapter on Unicorns and Lollipops.

268 271 So true.Our generals are as blinded by PC as the rest of the political class,hence we have no chance of success.

269 276 Frightening shit isn't it?A Pershing or a Patton or even Ike wouldn't wipe their ass with such fantasyland garbage.

270

So while a shitty option, “endless war” remains the best available.

Posted by: Methos at July 07, 2010 09:30 PM

Circa 2049:

Just about ten twenty thirty forty years ago I set out on ObamaÂ’s Afghanistan road,
SeekinÂ’ my fame and glory, lookinÂ’ to turn the POS mullahÂ’s hemorrhoid into a pot of gold.
Well, things got bad, and things got worse, I guess you will know the tune.
Oh ! lord, stuck in ObamaÂ’s Afghanistan yet again.

Flew in yet again on a big plane, I hope IÂ’ll be in one piece flyin out when I go.
I was yet again just passinÂ’ through, must now be yet another 5 10 15 20 tours or more.
Running out of time and patience ["Not to complain but whatever the hell happened to my youth?!"], looks like they took still more of my friends.
Oh ! lord, Im stuck in ObamaÂ’s Afghanistan yet again.

The Hope and Change man in the White House said yet again I was on my way.
Somewhere I lost his connection, he ran out of words to say.
I came into Kabul, yet another one year stand, looks like the plans fell through yet again
Oh ! lord, stuck in ObamaÂ’s Afghanistan yet again.

MmmmÂ…
If I only had a woman ["Hey Jack, do you remember what a woman is?"], for evry Obama tour Ive done.
And evry time Ive had to fight while cheered on by CINOÂ’s Obama and his many successors sat back home oblivious to Islam and power drunk.
You know, Id like to catch the next plane back to where Im from.
Oh ! lord, Im stuck in ObamaÂ’s Afghanistan yet again.
Oh ! lord, Im stuck in ObamaÂ’s Afghanistan yet again.

- CCR Soldier Boy

271

@271:  "Well Osama Bin Ladin was trained and equipped by the U.S."

Not exactly.  He did get some stuff that was bought by the US, but he didn't directly from us.  The Pakistanis controlled most of the distribution.

As far as training goes, he mostly sat in a tent.  Hell, Congressman Rohrabacher probably did more fighting against the Sovs than Osama did.

272 272 270 Sorry,I missed your caveat.We are in agreement.

Posted by: steevy at July 07, 2010 09:36 PM (6rilO)

No problem. Watching the Chinese, racist superiority freaks that they are, getting bogged down in A-stan, might be better than Skinemax - even the Shannon Tweed parts.

_{Sorry, Kratos - just my opinion ...}

273 So true.Our generals are as blinded by PC as the rest of the political class,hence we have no chance of success.

Posted by: steevy at July 07, 2010 09:38 PM (6rilO)

We are the oddballs in this world. The rest of the world has no problem standing up for themselves and what they believe. They look out for number one and do what they can get away with to get it. We act as if 'Blood for Oil' is a bad thing. Even conservatives talk as if we would never do something in out own interests. "That's just crazy talk" Why is acting in our own best intrest wrong? When did that become a sane standard?

We are losing and will continue to lose until that changes.

274 The alleged "rich resources" in Afghanistan are nothing but a possibility.  Prospectors had had a few strikes.  So?  How big are the deposits?  How pure? How extractable?  How accessible?  There are plenty of places (in fact, most places) in Afghanistan where it might take you 5 years just to build a workable road into the area just to move out ore. 
I don't think those prospect hits are a game changer.  Not yet, anyway.

275 Near as I can tell that makes about half of the Moronosphere clueless fucks.

Posted by: another clueless fuck for get the fuck out at July 07, 2010 07:47 PM (w9bVp)

You'll note I was responding to the assertion that "far too many" on the right
support wars just because they're wars, not that anyone who advocates getting out is (necessarily) a clueless fuck.

Well, you would note it, if you weren't a clueless fuck.

276

As far as training goes, he mostly sat in a tent.  Hell, Congressman Rohrabacher probably did more fighting against the Sovs than Osama did.

Posted by: Fa Cube Itches at July 07, 2010 09:42 PM (ySNz/)

According to The Looming Tower he was regarded as a complete fuckup in Afghanistan while the Sovs were there.

277

ahhh, the lovey strains of “chickenhawk serenade” never get old.

Posted by: sÂ’moron at July 07, 2010 09:37 PM

Ahhh, and the moral of that is – Those who live in glass houses shouldn’t throw rocks.

278 When that statue of Saddam came down, shoulda left wheeled the whole damn Army and sent it up the highway to Damascus. M1s could have been parked on Boy Assad's front lawn by sundown.

Posted by: blaster at July 07, 2010 09:37 PM (su3hy)

Exactly.  Slice off Syria from Iran's regional clique and Hezbollah becomes a lot less sustainable (and for that matter, so does Hamas).  And it might have been a salutary lesson to the AK Party running Turkey that Islamicism isn't the high-probability survival strategy.

Unfortunately, the current Administration sends its twerpy minions to Damascus to give Twitter lessons and drink Starbucks.

279 283 Nor is the possibility new.It seems someone floated the idea again to try and keep the US public interested in that shithole.

280 We're not going to do what's necessary for anything like a win in Afghanistan. This isn't a close thing--it's a slam dunk. We should get out now.

281 When I heard there was semen in subwameans, I got goosebumps. I wote YEA for subwameans!

282

Patraeus, is he now an asshole pursuing failure? No.

Posted by: Ken Royall at July 07, 2010 09:37 PM

He is in the role of Colonel Nicholson in “The Bridge on the River Kwai”.

283

Not exactly.  He did get some stuff that was bought by the US, but he didn't directly from us.  The Pakistanis controlled most of the distribution.

As far as training goes, he mostly sat in a tent.  Hell, Congressman Rohrabacher probably did more fighting against the Sovs than Osama did.

Posted by: Fa Cube Itches at July 07, 2010 09:42 PM (ySNz/)

Sorry but I don't buy that. He was a very wealthy prominent Saudi fighting the Soviets in Afghanistan and you expect me to believe the U.S. didn't lend him a hand? The U.S. was recruiting Arabs to fight in Afghanistan just as Osama was doing.

Wiki (not a great source, but whatever)

On CNN's Larry King program:

    Bandar bin Sultan: This is ironic. In the mid-'80s, if you remember, we and the United - Saudi Arabia and the United States were supporting the Mujahideen to liberate Afghanistan from the Soviets. He [Osama bin Laden] came to thank me for my efforts to bring the Americans, our friends, to help us against the atheists, he said the communists. Isn't it ironic?

    Larry King: How ironic. In other words, he came to thank you for helping bring America to help him.

    Bandar bin Sultan: Right.

So what was Osama thanking him for if there was in fact no such help? Osama doesn't strike as the kinda guy who has a warm fuzzy for the U.S.

JaneÂ’s Intelligence Review as stating Bin Laden "worked in close association with U.S. agents" in raising money for the Mujahiddin from "vast family connections"

284 blaster@275
That's an excellent idea (that I seem to recall Dick Morris expressing to Bill O'Reilly back in the runup to the 2004 election).  I don't see Obama doing it, but I would put it in the list of options post-2012, depending on whether Israel has that much patience.

285 I think I'm with Ann, Jack Straw, and unknown Jane ... mostly ...

but that is after a few beers ...

286 How IS Bandar bin Sultan doing these days, anyway? Last I heard, he had a severe case of camel toe - from an unusually irate camel.

287 I think driving apart the Syria-Iran-North Korea Axis is important. Break up that little giggle party and the "Palestinian problem" gets a lot more solvable. Then, screw the two state solution, convince Israel that the 67 borders should be reestablished for realz - i.e., Gaza is returned to Egypt, and West Bank to Jordan. Let THOSE assholes deal with the Palestinians. Then you get less oil money flowing to Kim Jong Il and that whole thing comes apart. WIN-WIN-WIN-WIN.

288 FeralCat, you have me intrigued!

I am U.S. Army 98J20M8, '78-'82.

You?

289

I think the problem boils down to this;

1 - The Pakis, whose Muslim ideology teaches that they can and must rule the entire world, have nukes already.

2 - The Iranians, whose Muslim ideology teaches that they can and must rule the entire world, will have them soon.

3 - A majority of Americans believed the best way to deal with 1 and 2 was to vote for somebody named Hussein for US President.

Until something changes 3, a lot, we won't be in a position to do much about 1 and 2. And it seems clear to me that it will require detonation of Islamic nukes in Jewish, Hindu or Christian countries to make Americans realize that Islam is a much more dangerous ideology than Soviet communism ever was. So. Let's start a pool. Which city will the Religion of Peace destroy first?

PS

I dibs NYC. I know, smart money is on Tel Aviv, but I have a sentimental attachment to New York.  

 

290 she can speak for me

291 GWB's strategy of a small foot-print, military hunting lodge coupled with stronger relations with the largest democracy in the world, (India), to promote prosperity for the region is the right course.  Regime change in Iran would further promote prosperity for the region as well.

292 Waaaay too late to this discussion, so all I can throw in is my $0.04, but........is there a time when we need to reevaluate what our goals are in Afghanistan? 

Alexander the Great was calling the region ungovernable.

Would we have "stayed" in Germany and Japan after WW2 if German and Japanese factions had kept killing hundreds of American GIs year after year ater year?

Of course,

293 (weird, didn't mean to cut that off)

Ultimately, it is the Afghans themselves that will determine their future.

294 294  I am touched that I get props from the drunk contingent   I'm not really "with" Ann -- there are reasons to stay on Asta, at least for now.  However, we do need to start thinking about the sort of war we wage there vis a vis the mentality of our enemies...and no, I don't think it'll happen.  We'll likely get bogged down and lose more troops...one of which could very well be my kid...I do have some skin in this game.

295 I'm glad someone is standing up for Steele.  Democrats never apologize for their members, no matter how idiotic the statement.  There are better ways of dealing with Steele than the way that is being done.  Castigating him in public is not making any of us look good.  Speaking negatively of our leaders also also gives the Dems many audio and video clips for ads.  We eat our own and then wonder why we can't win elections. 

296 We eat our own and then wonder why we can't win elections. 

Posted by: Ken James at July 07, 2010 10:40 PM (w91MW)

Do you remember what an idiot Steele was in the runups to all of the special elections?

I liked Michael Steele.  I strongly supported him as RNC chair, since I had been very impressed with his performances on TV during the 2008 election, when Steele was one of the only people from the right who was hammering on the Fannie/Freddie/CRA cause of the credit crisis, when McShame had totally abondoned taking up the correct side of that argument (instead, wasting his time on thinking up idiotic ideas like using TARP to pay off everyone's mortgage).  Steele did very well, by my estimation, and seemed like an excellent choice.

Then he got in as RNC chairand sucked more than I had ever even contemplated was possible.  And he's only gotten worse with every passing day.

It's enough, already.  These are not times for screwing around "giving people chances".

297

"In the entire seven-year course of the Afghanistan war under Bush, from October 2001 to January 2009, 625 American soldiers were killed. In 18 short months, Obama has nearly doubled that number to 1,124 Americans killed."

That's a pretty money quote, really. But I'm not convinced that talking about it right now will do anything more than confuse the heck out of average, apolitical people.

Posted by: William at July 07, 2010 07:06 PM (77TeU)

High casualties come when a war is being decided, not when it's on the back burner.  We had the highest casualties in Iraq in 2006-2007 because we became much more aggressive in taking the fight to the enemy.  I don't like to see higher casualties either, but it doesn't necessarily mean the war is being mishandled - indeed, it might be an indication of just the opposite.

298 Crap.  Sockpuppet fail.

299 Jesus Christ I'd like to beat these spammers to a pulp.

300 > What Steele said WAS historically inaccurate.

No, it's not.  Do you even read the f-ing article?

Obama CHOSE to do a pussy-footed surge that got 1200 American soldiers killed and multiplied our casualty rate by a factor of 6.  And for what?  Should our troops be the peace corp/police force for the most backwards and violent country on the face of the earth?

Ann is exactly right.  All true conservatives should have seen disaster the minute Obama started requiring soldiers on the battlefield read the enemy their Miranda rights.  Afghanistan is not Iraq, an Iraq-style surge wasn't wise and Democrats were hawks on Afghanistan merely as rhetorical device.

I know that some people have difficulty with the concept that 2001 with Bush as Commander in Chief was the right time to invade Afghanistan and now, in 2010 with Obama in charge, now is the time to get out.

Being conservative or Republican does mean that we have to agree with the perpetuation of every war no matter how politicized, ill-conceived and poorly executed.

-Mercy

301 Steele, Coulter,Rush talkin like Democrats...

302 Sorry. Fixed link.

303

FeralCat, you have me intrigued!

I am U.S. Army 98J20M8, ‘78-’82.

You?

Posted by: TXMarko

U.S. Army 1193 and 8105, ‘68-’72

304 Aw,sheep dip

305 I give, just go to my frikkin blog, it's there.

306

Posted by: progressoverpeace at July 07, 2010 10:53 PM (Qp4DT)

This gets it right.  Fuck Steele.  And fuck anybody that sticks up for that inarticulate egomaniacal cocksucker.

307

I want Steele gone because he's a tool. Some of what he said about Obama and Afganistan was true. But Steele is no conservative, certainly not a TEA party conservative, and is an establishment RINO who is NOT using his position as RNC to any amount of effectiveness. It's because of Steele that I no longer give money to the RNC.

Bill Kristol is also a RINO, and he should shut his pie-hole.

What we need in the RNC chairman position is a hard-talking, truth-telling, limited gubment, low taxes TEA party type like Sarah Palin.

308 Her twisted logic is beautiful. It curls back upon itself into shapes unimagined by any other human mind.

309 B/c she's a pure political partisan and cannot be seen agreeing with anything a Democrat does.  Republicans did this in the 90s - opposing the wars in the Balkans because a Democrat was President.  It was despicable then, and it's despicable now. 

310 I should say some Republicans did it in the 90s -  not all.

311 Republicans did this in the 90s - opposing the wars in the Balkans because a Democrat was President.  It was despicable then, and it's despicable now. 

Posted by: Dan at July 08, 2010 10:10 AM (YQ4mh)

First of all, as you partially corrected yourself, hardly any Repubs opposed it, and those that did questioned the tactics of just blowing shit up from high altitudes which led us to blow up the Chinese embassy and subsequently grovel for it.  Second, it was a war that the MFM was shilling for right from the get-go because of a weird anti-Serb bias they possess.  I thought it was correct to question the wisdom of blowing up Orthodox Christians for muzzies, particularly how none of the genocide that the MFM reported on the rock worshipers enduring turned out to be as bad as initially stated and there was no reporting of violence from the other side.  Ledeen has subsequently reported that the muzzies are very pro-Western so maybe it was the right thing to do; but to call the questioning that I mention "despicable" is phony outrage.

And Steele is an asshole no matter how your opinion falls on this.

312

There were 323 comments before I ever saw this topic, and I can't read thru them, so I apologize if somebody finally got the answer to the original question.

But, yes...this is a long held belief. Ann spoke out about this in her CPAC speech a couple of years ago, saying it made no sense to abandon one theater of conflict that allows you to capitalize on your every strength, in favor of another one that exposes your every weakness.

She's 100% right. All of the Dems and most Pubs who agonized over the way Iraq was being fought, or that we dropped the ball in Afganistan never really understood the overall mission, either tactically or strategically.

I wish I had been able to participate in this discussion...it must have been lively.

313 She nailed it! Why do you think Rush wasn't jumping on the bandwagon and instead steered them into opposing Kagan. He understands what Steele was getting at.

I do love Ann! And Jane D'Oh..."The Ann Coulter doll comes dressed in a micro-mini skirt, sporting a pack of cigs, carrying a martini in one hand and a restraining order against Bill Maher in her purse." HILARIOUS!

314 I say we take off and nuke the entire site from orbit. It's the only way to be sure.

315 Ho-ho-hold on, hold on one second. This installation has a substantial dollar value attached to it.

316 You know, Burke, I don't know which species is worse. You don't see them fucking each other over for a goddamn percentage.

317

#14,  If we leave Afghanistan, they go back to planning the next 9/11...

But, but, but... the Cairo speech!  NASA being turned into "No Pigs in Space"!  Whay don't they love us, now that Obama has bowed to them???

318 This is why I say I only agree with Coulter 90% of the time.  Toss this one into the 10% category with evolution.

She's nuancing for Steele on this - apparently out of some desire to hang an increasingly unpopular war effort around Barry's neck.

Coulter's playing Oliver Stone for W if she now wants to claim that he would somehow had us "out" of Afghanistan or remained largely disengaged vis a vis Barry and thus Steele was right.

Yes, the RoE's are Barry's fault but Coulter's going too far out on too slender a limb on this one - and the gratuitous shots at Liz Cheney and Bill Kristol smack of something more personal than policy-driven. 

When she commented on PA-12, didn't she mention that Republicans had to avoid shooting themselves in the foot ?  She's providing cover for Steele on that very score. 

319 Get out of Afghanistan, let the enemy fester, watch them and gather intel then bomb the shit out of them.

320 "Get out of Afghanistan, let the enemy fester, watch them and gather intel then bomb the shit out of them."

I agree as do many others.  Rush Limbaugh best related to us on this matter.  Face your enemy, we will have plenty of time to savage each other after we have taken back the house and senate.  Granted I love Ann and I love Liz, but Steele is of little importance. The problem is Liz is aiming her gun towards one of ours while Ann's cannon is pointing towards the enemy.

Enough about Steele, more talk of why Obama let the future white baby killa off the hook.  More talk of Elena Kagan and whether she really is female!  The troops know who supports them and takes up causes in their interest.  We care about them, Obama cares only for Obama.  That is what we need to hammer them on, not Steele gaffs or lousy girly bar tabs.

321 Excellent Ann, just excellent. I don't care what happens to Steele, and he is a mess that needs cleaning up after sometimes, but he got it right this time. It is Obama's war. The numbers are the numbers and the Lib's would hammer us with those numbers if the tables were turned. We should certainly be allowed to support the troops without supporting the mission, right?!