1 McCain will have none of this.

2 Well it's certainly better than nuking Arizona...

3 I was wondering where you were on this Gabe. lol. Also you havent commented on Andrew Thomas resigning to run for AG, heh. We have every right to enforce the law. these changes were necessary to protect Maricopa Cty Sheriffs Office since Obama and Holder stripped our 287g enforcement authority despite ICE saying we were wonderful in that regard.

Three illegals picked up recently were felons convicted of murder and sex crimes. 40 illegals were rescued from  drop house this week also. it is for their protection and our prtection that we implement this law.

4 "But sending them after folks who have lawful contact with the police will lead to more crime and more victims. And it won't solve the illegal alien problem." What lawful contact? They are not here legally in the first place. You have listed a number of whiny "what ifs" that show you do get it, Gabe.

5 @5 something tells me Ace it tied up at the moment...

6 Hey, speaking of crimes, I hear it's illegal to be in the United States unless you're a citizen or have a visa.  Illegal aliens are already criminals.  There's something to be said to looking the other way if it means that you're able to catch a rapist or drug dealer, but realistically it's a bad solution.

It's bad because it encourages contempt for the law.  If a person doesn't have to be here legally, why should they try to obey other laws (except to stay under the radar)? 

It's bad because it encourages dishonesty by law enforcement.  The LEO knows (or has a reasonable suspicion) that the person is committing a crime in their presence, yet does nothing about it.  This arbitrary exercise of police power is unacceptable: if we can't give the police the power to arbitrarily give or deny march permits, we shouldn't be giving them such arbitrary powers over arrest.

It's bad because it harms the dignity of the illegal alien.  Each should have a country in which to live and which serves them as part of a social contract.  Living in fear of discovery, of harassment by those rightfully angry that their money and property is being used (such as Americans), and of danger coming from repatriation, is not a good way to live and we need to find a solution.

7 Non-Maverick and his fat daughter are hardest hit.

8 What lawful contact? They are not here legally in the first place.
Posted by: eman at April 14, 2010 10:57 AM (fTJLU)

If an illegal immigrant sees a crime being committed against someone on the street, they would be an idiot to call 911.

9 But I haven't seen Ace much ever since he pledged to get to the bottom of the RNC Lesbian Bondage club scandal. Well, he might be at the bottom of lesbian bondage but I doubt there's any actual scandal involved.

10 Well it's certainly better than nuking Arizona...

Ok, clearly you've never been to Arizona...

11

Well, he might be at the bottom of lesbian bondage but I doubt there's any actual scandal involved.

 

Two girls, one Ace.

12 The law makes it a crime to solicit work as a day laborer or to hire day laborers.

I'm sorry, but that's just wrong.  Citizens have the right to be day laborers as well.

13 Ok, clearly you've never been to Arizona...

Clearly you've never been to New Jersey

14 The law makes it a crime to solicit work as a day laborer or to hire day laborers.

I get the intent, but doesn't that infringe on the rights of citizens?  Citizen is out work, neighbor needs their windows washed, if she agrees to pay him $50 to do it, they're both criminals?

15 Posted by: polynikes at April 14, 2010 11:04 AM (m2CN7)

Are you really this dumb or do just play dumb on the internet?

Have you ever called 911 to report a crime or an accident. I have.

They take your name, they already have your number and then they...wait for it...follow up. You see if you call and say, 'there's a man hitting a woman on the corner of Main and Pine', they will want to talk to you about it. It's called...being a witness.

16

OT: I'm the King of the Word! Wait, what????

On this day in 1912 the RMS Titanic hit an iceberg in the North Atlantic and began to sink

17

Why do liberals like Malor inevitably come to dominate all [ostensibly] conservative institutions?

Or maybe we should just dispense with the pretense that AoSHQ was ever a conservative site in the first place?

 

18 word = world

19

I would contend that most illegals already don't report crime because they suspect, rightly or wrongly, that they'll be deported if their status is discovered.  In this respect, I don't think that the law will really change anything. 

As for the rest of it, it's about freakin' time.  This is immigration reform I can live with.

20 I wonder if the state law making it a state crime to not carry immigration papers will be constitutional?  Does federal law require you to carry your immigration papers? I don't know.

21

Agreed that the provision against day labour is over-broad and stupid.

However I expect violent crime statistics to go down when the illegal invader community goes down. Whether or not any given invader feels safe dialing 911 or not.

22 I'm sorry, but that's just wrong.  Citizens have the right to be day laborers as well.

I think that just turned AZ's right-to-work law on its head.

23 If an illegal immigrant sees a crime being committed against someone on the street, they would be an idiot to call 911. Posted by: DrewM. at April 14, 2010 11:02 AM (9B5OK) Oh, please. We can't have or enforce laws because there are scenarios where doing so is less than ideal? Get a hobby.

24 News flash Gabe, these guys are federal felons, I say fuck them. Ship their asses back

25

I never assumed Ace was a conservative site, l9HB0. It's a generally-right-wing alliance site.

But I've said that before, and the chicken is looking at me suspiciously, so I'll leave it at that.

26 Oh, please. We can't have or enforce laws because there are scenarios where doing so is less than ideal?

Posted by: eman at April 14, 2010 11:11 AM (fTJLU)

Who said "we can't have or enforce laws because" of it? You simply asked what kind of legal contact illegal immigrants could have with police. I simply answered your question.

Their are costs and benefits to everything in life. There's no point in pretending otherwise.

27 I don't think the requirement to check legal status will change much of anything.

Illegals are already at risk in any contact with the police since there is no rule against an officer checking status. So this is about how officers in general deal with illegals so it is up to the officers judgment just like it always was. The law gives them an out to the requirement so in the end it doesn't change anything.

28 .

29 The illegals are supposed to be afraid. They are supposed to be nervous. They are supposed to be somewhere else. Not happy with our laws? Not happy when we enforce them? Go home!

30 But sending them after folks who have lawful contact with the police will lead to more crime and more victims. And it won't solve the illegal alien problem.

Whiny, hand-wringer bullshit. Illegal. ILLEGAL alien.

Anyway, where was I...

The internal effects of a mutable policy are still more calamitous. It poisons the blessings of liberty itself. It will be of little avail to the people that the laws are made by men of their own choice, if the laws be so voluminous that they cannot be read, or so incoherent that they cannot be understood; if they be repealed or revised before they are promulged, or undergo such incessant changes that no man who knows what the law is today can guess what it will be tomorrow. Law is defined to be a rule of action; but how can it be a rule, which is little known and less fixed?

James Madison, from Federalist No. 62, Feb 27, 1788

31 Or maybe we should just dispense with the pretense that AoSHQ was ever a conservative site in the first place?

Maybe it would be better to just dispense with the pretense that this or any website written by anyone other than yourself will never reflect your personal preferences 100% of the time.

Honest curiosity...what blog or site would you consider to be the keeper of true conservatism?

32 I think the benefits will outweigh the costs.  They need to pass something like this here in TX.

33 28, I wasn't pretending otherwise. I already have considered such scenarios and they do not deter me.

34 I've never had to give my info to the 911 operator, I've called it several times in my life. Nowadays the caller ID gives them the vitals, anyway.

35

Two questions:

1. What are ya'll smoking?

2. More importantly, care to share?

_{Oooops, guess I failed the purity portion of this quiz!}

36

I get the intent, but doesn't that infringe on the rights of citizens?  Citizen is out work, neighbor needs their windows washed, if she agrees to pay him $50 to do it, they're both criminals?

I suppose under strict interpretation, yes.  But like you said, you get the intent.  It's to stop the revenue stream that keeps many illegals here.

I suspect it's going to be enforced in the parking lot of The Home Depot as opposed to hiring your neighbor's kid to mow the lawn.

37

Drew 33 Honest curiosity...what blog or site would you consider to be the keeper of true conservatism?

For blogs, Blogmocracy comes immediately to mind; American Thinker, for sites.

I don't think sites like this are always right, since I'm no more a "conservative" than you are (albeit for different reasons). But they reflect what conservatives want to read.

38 So an illegal won't report a crime he witnesses. If he wasn't here illegally in the first place he wouldn't be witnessing it anyway so it's kind of a push really.

39

I have no problem with the police checking on the immigration status of arrestees and maybe even criminal suspects. But sending them after folks who have lawful contact with the police will lead to more crime and more victims. And it won't solve the illegal alien problem.

I have an alternate view. The people who are victims are illegals, and the perps are illegals. Arrest them both, prosecute one and then ship across the border, ship the other across the border immediately. Fuck them, crossing the border illegally makes you a criminal automatically. Don't want to be victimized, stay home or come in legally.

40

And it won't solve the illegal alien problem.

 

And,

 

Each should have a country in which to live and which serves them as part of a social contract.  Living in fear of discovery, of harassment by those rightfully angry that their money and property is being used (such as Americans), and of danger coming from repatriation, is not a good way to live and we need to find a solution.

 

This is all about making it less desirable to come here illegally. Which is the only solution. If we forced them to pay taxes, it would be less desirable for them to come. If we forced them to learn English, it would be less desirable for them to come. If we quit printing every damn Government form in any one of 60 froeign languages, it would be less desirable for them to come.

The way we treat illegal aliens when they commit a crime is laughable. We give them cake and ice cream fer chrissakes. How are US citizens treated in foreign countries when they commit a crime? Pretty decidedly and sometimes brutally. BECAUSE WE COMMITTED AN ILLEGAL ACT !

And please, don't atrat with the "We're more civilized" shit, or any other moral equivalency crap...

 

 

41 first- now to "send them all home, the idea is ludacris, many have  children here that have somewhat americanized we can't punish them. so what to do.   idea 1- legalize them with caveats, they may not collect any state federal aid, not welfare, free medical Anything at all for a period of 10 years idea 2- they pay restiuttion to the  state-federal taxpayers for breaking the law. idea 3- they are not allowed to vote or be politically active for a period of ten years , while they pay back resitution for having broke the law. idea-4 illegals that have broken the law, by gross misdemeanor, felony, or any law of violence , gang  affiliation do get sent home. and have the mexican gvt. , or those that can be leaned on gvts to pay,   their fines and medical bills that they incured in america  they must learn enough english to be able to adjust. quit trying to make americans learn spanish  for jobs in america quit allowing the unions- corporations that hire  political activity and lobbying to sponsor their justifification for allowing Illegals to work legally as a benefit to either political party.  that amnestied illegals swear fidelity to America, as immigrants have for 200+ years allow no more mexico's citizens in the country as immigrants for next 25 years, as although we are a land of immigrants we only have so much work and economy,also we need room for immigrants that really are in danger(political etc) and need a home, we need to save room. we also need room for those immigrants that add other attributes, education or other working efforts to our society fine corporations, unions, business's for hiring illegals .and shut them down for lawbreaking! make it clear, that any illegals found in the country after a date set by law, will be removed from our country and NEVER allowed to become a citizen EVER. these might all be stupid suggestions, and not doalble.

42 http://tinyurl.com/yfggxob

State department travel warning for Mexico.  Reads like a war might be going on.

43 Plus, the hypothetical crime victim in DrewM's scenario is effed if the illegal alien is here or not. So, make it not. To what degree do we make illegals legal so that occasional good deeds can happen?

44 I'm sorry, but that's just wrong.  Citizens have the right to be day laborers as well.

Posted by: chemjeff at April 14, 2010 11:03 AM (Gk/wA)

Most of the towns around here have set aside buildings where day laborers can meet and employers can hire them. This is much better than the crowd of 40 illegals hanging out in the 7-11 parking lot waiting for a pick-up truck to stop. Driving to work around here is an eyeful of "Doesn't anybody else see this problem?"

45 @33 I'll say this much... whatever is in the water at HotAir lately is keeping me from spending much time there lately. I vastly prefer the perfumes of freshly-butchered hoboes and vodka breath. Without going hyperbolic, let us hope HotAir isn't trying to become The Daily Beast Lite. At any rate, if illegal aliens would only stick to selling fake Vuitton bags, none of this would matter.

46 I never call the policia when I witness crimes I commit.

47 Drew, why bother engaging a troll who's too much of a pussy to sign his posts with a nom de comment? Screw him.


As to the subject, illegals absolutely should be living in fear of police contact. They'll quickly decide that Arizona isn't the place for them, and they'll move. Whether it's back across the border or to a neighboring state, at that point it's not Arizona's problem. And that's kind of the point.

48 irst- now to "send them all home, the idea is ludacris, many have children here that have somewhat americanized we can't punish them We would not be punishing them. Their parents and bad actors here caused the problem. No amnesty. No citizenship. Go home. Divides families? Not my problem.

49 I suspect it's going to be enforced in the parking lot of The Home Depot as opposed to hiring your neighbor's kid to mow the lawn.

Yeah, like only predatory pedophiles and violent rapists end up on permanent sex-offender lists, never 18-yo boys who got a BJ from their 15-yo gfs on prom night and got caught by a nosy neighbor.

50 The law makes it a crime to solicit work as a day laborer or to hire day laborers.

Yeah, that seems clearly unconstitutional.  There are other provisions that punish employers of illegals, which is needed and the real teeth of this law to take away incentives for illegals to go to AZ.

But sending them after folks who have lawful contact with the police will lead to more crime and more victims.

There is no lawful contact if they are here illegally.  I understand the point about solving and reporting crimes, but the root cause is the original broken immigration law.  This type of legislation is what happens when the feds refuse to enforce the border.

51 Is Holder already flying out to AZ to stop this?

52

Most of the towns around here have set aside buildings where day laborers can meet and employers can hire them

Good point.  Additionally, there are temp agencies that specialize in day laborers.  Labor Ready (Work today, get paid today!) is in my area. 

53 Why doesn't the day laborer provision just specify that it's illegal to hire illegal aliens for day labor?  When I first read the provision, I read day laborer as 'illegal immigrant day labor', but realize that's just interpretation on my part.  Why does day labor generally need to be outlawed?  Only outlaws will have day labor!

54 Can't we all just get along?

55

This is all about making it less desirable to come here illegally. Which is the only solution.

And it won't always be nice and pretty in individual situations, like in some of the examples about abused spouses and such.

If you teach people that they can break the law and be treated gently, guess what they learn to do?

56 Roughly 17% of the federal prison population is illegal aliens. Illegals make up maybe 3% of the population as a whole. So tell me how shipping their asses home and making it hard for them to stay here illegally is a bad thing.

57

Racists.

 

58 Arrest them both, prosecute one and then ship across the border, ship the other across the border immediately.

Now there would be a valid use for "mass transit".  Amtrak might actually be able to have more than 10 people per train that way, and on the upside maybe we could get "Sheriff Joe" deported too..

59

It's about time someone got serious about enforcing the law. Illegals are responsible for a great deal of crime in addition to overburdening our services. However, look for some corrupt progressive judge to overrule this perfectly executed law and continue the raping of America by Mexico.

That Bush didn't close the border was my largest complaint. He could've closed the border and cut off all Federal aid to any "sanctuary city", had he wished. Then we wouldn't have this problem.

Oh, and La Ratza and all the open border advocates can FOAD.

60 If there are provisions that would make it "different" than federal law it will last no longer than it takes the ACLU to file an action in the nearest federal "commie" court chamber.

The Supremes and federal supremacy hasn't gone away.

61 They take your name, they already have your number and then they...wait for it...follow up. You see if you call and say, 'there's a man hitting a woman on the corner of Main and Pine', they will want to talk to you about it. It's called...being a witness.

And they will not call in crimes in their own illegal alien ghettos and  - so what? Seriously.  So what?  So one illegal alien doesn't call to report another illegal alien victimizing another illegal alien?

So the fuck what?  It. Is. What. You. Get.  Actions have consequences.  And if the results of those consequences is "Don't swim the Rio Grande, Jose, it's a bad place to be if you don't have that green card" then I am just jiggy with it.

Fuck 'em.  For Immigrants, everything.  For illegals, nothing.  That's what being an outlaw means.

62 Does "a person involved in a lawful contact" green light running immigration status at sobriety check points?

63 An eighteen year old boy with  fifteen year girlfriend is a predatory pedophile.

64 However I expect violent crime statistics to go down when the illegal invader community goes down. Whether or not any given invader feels safe dialing 911 or not.

This is borne out by the stats on the criminal populations in places like CA. 

As to the argument about police contact, there is a parallel to the situation in New York when Rudy took over and implemented his "broken Windows"  policy.  If the police won't enforce the small things, (in this case, violation of federal immigration law) it encourages an attitude that anything goes.  Consider that we now have very large demonstrations, on American soil, by people with no right to be here, demanding that we respect their "rights" and accomodate them.   

65 Why doesn't the day laborer provision just specify that it's illegal to hire illegal aliens for day labor?
Posted by: Cautiously Pessimistic at April 14, 2010 11:31 AM (30xKW)

Thing is, it is already illegal to hire illegals for any term of employment.

They are trying to do away with a specific action that you know when you see it (a bunch of guys hanging around a Home Depot lot) but is really hard to define narrowly enough to only cover illegals.

It's like they are trying make it really, really illegal to hire illegals but it's too broad (based on the description at least).  It would be better to enforce trespassing or vagrancy laws but I think some courts have struck those down when used in cases like this to target illegals.

66 An eighteen year old boy with  fifteen year girlfriend is a predatory pedophile.

A junior with a sophomore girlfriend?  Seriously?

67

The AZ Cattlemens Association released an 18-point plan yesterday, addressing securing the border after the murder of a prominent rancher by an illegal alien. http://tinyurl.com/y56oqop

 

68

"What about an alien battered spouse who wants to call the cops on her husband? What about United States citizens who are afraid to report crimes because of their illegal alien parents?"

You know what Gabe? There are certain rights and protections that you give up or never had when you decide to break the law and continue to live in a situation that puts you outside the law. There are plenty of other criminals on the run that may have a crime committed against them that choose not to call police because of their own criminal status. If an illegal is the victim of a crime they have two choices, call the police and in the process answer for their own crime or not. I don't have any sympathy for them if they choose the latter.

69

Yeah, like only predatory pedophiles and violent rapists end up on permanent sex-offender lists, never 18-yo boys who got a BJ from their 15-yo gfs on prom night and got caught by a nosy neighbor.

Point taken.  Don't forget pissing on a dumpster in the middle of the night, too. I hope it won't devolve into that. 

I suppose you can always contract someone and issue a 1099.  Of course, the I-9 requirement would need to be met, which I believe is the point.

70

Does "a person involved in a lawful contact" green light running immigration status at sobriety check points?

If a sobriety checkpoint doesn't need probable cause, why shouldn't they also check for immigration papers? Once you've violated the Constitution, what difference does it make what the police do afterwards?

 

71 "69 An eighteen year old boy with fifteen year girlfriend is a predatory pedophile. A junior with a sophomore girlfriend? Seriously?" Fifteen year old girl could be a freshman or sophomore, depending on when the event happened and when her birthday is. The eighteen year old is almost certainly a senior.

72

To be honest, the illegal alien day laborers are mostly a visible sign of what's deeply wrong with our immigration  and border control policy. The narco-terrorist war is here, folks. Besides drugs, the already mentioned human smuggling, kidnapping and forced prostitution, extortion and murder are the big issues the Feds are mostly ignoring.

As a country, our immigration policy should encourage the skilled and educated to come here and work legally. As long as we trun a blind eye to the 'poor illegal trying to get by', the really bad guys are getting firmly entrenched.

73 HeatheRadish, it's ok to boink an underage girl as long as you are both in High School? Now you tell me.

74

Fifteen year old girl could be a freshman or sophomore, depending on when the event happened and when her birthday is. The eighteen year old is almost certainly a senior.

Which, in my experience, is about the same level of maturity.

75 Police officers, especially in inner-cities, have enough to do without adding the task of stopping people to check their immigration status. It would also just open their departments to charges of profiling because everyone knows it would be mostly Hispanics they'd be checking. It's different if they're breaking a law, but if they're not, police have enough to do without doing the Feds' job too.

76 78, Police and others made a similar argument to Rudy in NYC. We can't waste out time busting people for minor infractions, blah, blah, blah. Rudy was right, they were wrong, and so are you.

77 But sending them after folks who have lawful contact with the police will lead to more crime and more victims. And it won't solve the illegal alien problem.

None of these laws are going to have any impact until they start fining and jailing the people who hire them.

When they start that then this shit will stop. Any other laws are BS feel good crap that are there to fool the voter.

78

By "probable cause" I take it you mean a warrant? Can't the judge just say "here is an area with a lot of trendy bars, we expect that at 1 AM the streets will be full of 24 year old bimbos and douchebags who've been drinking themselves stupid, so I deem anyone pulled over here and then to be warranted".

Sounds to me like a judge could do about the same for anyplace known to be a hangout for illegals.

79 I was 17 when I graduated high school.

80

They are trying to do away with a specific action that you know when you see it (a bunch of guys hanging around a Home Depot lot) but is really hard to define narrowly enough to only cover illegals.

This is like trying to get to Islamic radicals (oops... I mean Religion Of Peace Ordinance Platforms, or ROPOPs) by outlawing religion.  As you say, it's already illegal to hire illegal aliens (the 'illegal' part of illegal alien should tip people off), but I was assuming it was a federal crime or something, and this would make it a state crime so Arizona could go after the folks that the feds won't go after. 

The day labor part, if it's written the way it's portrayed here, is bad law that's just going to make a lot of previously legal activities (like paying the kid down the street for mowing your lawn) illegal.  And it won't actually get us anything in return because, as you say, it's ALREADY illegal to hire illegal immigrants.

81

78 Police officers, especially in inner-cities, have enough to do without adding the task of stopping people to check their immigration status.

That's right, shithead. Selective enforcement will help. So lets just stop all enforcement of any laws save for those whose violation is a felony. Did you not notice that 17% of the inmates in the federal slammer are illegals? If they weren't here, they can't commit crimes here.

As usual, your "logic" is overwhelming. Care for a dip of shit?

82 And JEA is a known leftist commenter at this site. I wouldn't class him as a troll, but he's ever-reliable with the ol' progressive talking points. If you're agreeing with him, that says something about your standpoint as well.

83 The eighteen year old is almost certainly a senior.

Not in rural Iowa.  Boys start kindergarten a year after girls, so they have an extra years' growth for football (my understanding is there is a current movement among yuppie types to do this because boys don't develop verbal skills as quickly as girls, so they do better in school with an extra year to develop).  Most of the guys in my class turned 18 junior year.  I turned 16, I was a year ahead....

So you're saying if a junior had asked me to prom when I was a sophomore, he was a pedophile? 

Since when do pedophiles like girls with C-cups?

84 Illegal Aliens aren't stupid animals. They're people trying to serve their needs. If those needs aren't met or are threatened they won't live here. If they are sitting in some Mexican garbage dump hovel and know that in America the police will be more concerned asking about their immigration status then the crimes they've suffered they'll keep sitting in their trash pile condo. Why should a criminal be protected from crime? Why should we make it more livable for people that shouldn't be living here? If they want to break our laws to live here let them cower in the grip of crime. Let them be so fearful of American crime they run back over the Rio Grande. I'm done having ANY pity for these scumbags. And that is what they are. They're line cutters. And everybody hates line cutters. Most have no real skill or value other than being quasi-slave labor. Which means: They took our jobs!!! Round em up and boot them out the door. Then build a barrier that makes the Berlin wall poop itself so they can't get back in. Maybe it's harsh, but we live in a harsh world. And it's more charitable to be brutal and honest then straddle the fence of common sense and mamby pamby progressive one world utopia. They don't belong here. They are a burden. Don't give them the time to be victims of crimes.

85

Since when do pedophiles like girls with C-cups?

Pictures or it's just brag.....

86

Police officers, especially in inner-cities, have enough to do without adding the task of stopping people to check their immigration status.

So instead we have police officers going after "day laborers"?  How is this any better?  I can think of several ways that it's worse.

87 So does anyone think this will lead to illegals already in Arizona leaving the state?  Or will they even care about this law if they're already afraid of the laws already in place?

88 141 - Thats a great start by the AZ Cattlemens Association. I would add - move procedural jurisdiction for issues involving illegal aliens away from the 9th Circuit completely.

89 "Since when do pedophiles like girls with C-cups?" I had a c-cup in sixth grade. An 18 year old (or older) going after me would certainly have classified as a pedophile. As to the 18-and-a-senior thing, I thought that was pretty much the national norm.

90 "Not in rural Iowa. Boys start kindergarten a year after girls, so they have an extra years' growth for football" -- Man, don't tell the people in Western PA and Texas about that trick.

91

I had to call 911 last night, after witnessing a pedestrian being struck down in a crosswalk, just a few feet away from me.

The police were insisting on me giving them MY phone number, so I merely hung up at that point, having given them all the needed information.

 

92

By "probable cause" I mean I'm driving down the road, obeying the speed limit, all of my lights work (including my tag light, assuming it's night, of course), I'm not weaving and I'm wearing my sealtbelt. In short, I'm doing what I'm supposed to be doing to the best of my ability.

Why should I be forced to interface with a police officer?

93 44 willow, I totally disagree, they are felons already, they should never vote or own a gun Make their lives Hell and scary because they are felons How's this for an idea, let the cops hunt down these felons

94

The eighteen year old is almost certainly a senior.

Unless he's Polly Carboner, then he's 7th, 8th grade tops.

95 "93 "Not in rural Iowa. Boys start kindergarten a year after girls, so they have an extra years' growth for football" -- Man, don't tell the people in Western PA and Texas about that trick." +a gazillion

96 "Police officers, especially in inner-cities, have enough to do without adding the task of stopping people to check their immigration status." -- Not one penny for amnesty, Billions for more cops. That is an easy problem to solve.

97

Adults dont touch chidren. End of story.

98 Asking to a prom? C'mon.

99 I had a c-cup in sixth grade. An 18 year old (or older) going after me would certainly have classified as a pedophile.

There's a different name for when they're attracted to the post-pubescent, although I can't remember it right now... But they're not technically pedophiles--that's all about pre-puberty.

maddogg--there's probably some on my Facebook, I went through and put up all the embarrassing shit so my sisters wouldn't.  Heh.

100 backwardsboy - "Why should I be forced to interface with a police officer?" -- Driving is a privilege, not a right. On a public road, police have the right and authority to assess your capability to operate safely and legally. There are already existent, permanent immigration check points on many SW highways. Conducting an immigration check at an ad hoc check point is a no brainer. Sorry, the Federalist papers are silent on the freedom of the road, wind in your hair, etc.

101 This bill has some pretty bad things in it. My biggest issue is this part

The law makes it a crime to solicit work as a day laborer or to hire day laborers.

Does this mean that if a guy comes to my house offering to cut my trees I have to verify his citizenship? How am I suppose to do that? If he cuts them and hes illegal now I get in trouble? This isn't right.

102 Haven't you figured out that if the ILLEGAL aliens are afraid to call 911 and crime in their neighborhoods goes up that they might go home? Next you will advocating civilian trials for terrorists! If this site keeps this s**t up it will join Redstate, Rhiel world and LGF and be banned from my computer!

103 Who Knows, why? You were a witness to a felony - their failure to locate you could easily result in an inability to charge or convict the criminal who hit somebody. A friend and I had been drinking and should not have been driving, witnessed an assault - called it in - the responding officer had us park and drove us home after taking our statements.

104

Children. A Father would like to believe in his daughter. Children are sacred and so are women. Men? I am one. We aint all that.

105 "And it won't solve the illegal alien problem."

Sure it will, they'll be identified and sent home.  OR they'll get tired of being victims AND GO HOME.

106 Jean....there were other witnesses and I stayed until the police arrived.

107

maddogg--there's probably some on my Facebook, I went through and put up all the embarrassing shit so my sisters wouldn't.  Heh.

Dang. Don't do facebook.

108 Heather, "ephebophile" is the word you want. There was a meme about that during the priest abuse scandals circa 2003. The word was so clunky that it didn't catch on.

109 109

Chris B at April 14, 2010 12:06 PM (HDVpQ)

If you are hiring illegals you are part of the problem. 

Posted by: polynikes at April 14, 2010 12:09 PM (m2CN7)

How am I suppose to know if they are illegal? Just because their name is Jose and they have brown skin? Half the people in Phoenix have brown skin.

It shouldn't be my responsibility to verify their citizenship.

Stupid law.

110 "Sure it will, they'll be identified and sent home. OR they'll get tired of being victims AND GO HOME." -- or some advocacy group will setup a hotline and transparently report crimes for them, I can easily see the Catholic Church doing this. (As a strong Catholic) They do similar mitigation work in South America; the priests serve as an intermediary between the Indians and peasants who are afriad of the cops.

111 SSI welfare foodstamps. We dont need no Daddys or no damn husbands either. The end. Of America.

112 Who Knows, so they got your name anyhow -- why not give it to the operator, she probably logged your IMEI/Phone number?

113

BackwardsBoy, if you're driving through an area known for whatever type of crime at a time when that crime is usually committed, then I say you need to suck it up.

Solution: don't drive home from a bar at 1 AM. Or, you know, drive sober. The cop will be happy to wave you on and go look at the next car.

114

It shouldn't be my responsibility to verify their citizenship.

Stupid law.

Right man. Not your responsibility to check. Why don't you just admit you don't give a shit in the first place? As was said before, you are part of the problem, and I, had I got my druthers, would have you prosecuted for hiring illegals.

115

Chris B It shouldn't be my responsibility to verify their citizenship.

*reeooo reeeoooo reeeooo!*

116

Driving is a privilege, not a right.

I hate this tripe.  Who said it's a privilege?  The government?  The Bill of Rights is not an exhaustive list, and since it doesn't mention transportation, I think the Tenth Amendment reserves the right for the people.  I pay for the car, I pay for the roads with taxes.  The privilege BS is just an excuse so the government can tax self-transportation. 

Driving may be a privilege in the way that being born into wealth is a privilege, an advantage... but it's not something awesome the government grants to us by their own goodness.  Again, I buy the car, I pay my share for the roads, and I have a right to get around.  It's not less of a right because I drive a car, which is almost not optional for me, and I'm sure for many people and occupations it is a required part of their life. 

117 Jean, it is kind of a moot point about "giving" them my number, because they do have it merely by placing the call initially. It was annoying having them focus on that while I was trying to give the liscense plate number and make of the car that hit this man, though.

118 ... Posted by: maddogg at April 14, 2010 12:17 PM (OlN4e)

Ive live in AZ for 30 years. The problem is bad but forcing citizens to verify other people is not the right way to go about it. I can understand a company having to verify citizenship but not a private individual. Can I harass my neighbors now by calling into the police saying I suspect they might be illegals because they are dark skin and speak spanish? Forcing citizens to essentially spy and tattle on other people is not the way to go about fixing the problem.

119 Gabe, I don't give a shit about whether or not illegal aliens refuse to report crimes for fear of their illegal status.

The same is true for bookies, drug dealers. They engage in illegal conduct, pay no taxes, and then when they get ripped off, unfortunately they can't report it. Too bad.

Arizona is addressing the root problem. If illegals don't like it, we can always help them pack. Because what meatheads like you don't understand, Gabe, is that their standard of living is so horrendous that you can't comprehend it. Imagine growing up in a corrugated tin shack, no running water or bathrooms. A dirt floor. No jobs, no healthcare, rampant crime and disease. No money for food and clothing. No college tuition. The illegal alien community is damn glad to be living here, grateful Gabe. They ain't gonna leave. Prison is a shelter, food, and medical care improvement for them. Managing LAWFUL immigration is responsible and enforcing illegal immigration is responsible.

In the end, it is all about perspective. Your reality and theirs is world's apart.

120 There is a way to check for legality status. All it takes is that and a little common sense.

Someone who can barely speak English (or not at all) is immediately suspect since naturalization REQUIRES them to be able to speak English.

Once you determine they can't speak English you check the Federal database.

If you make no effort at all, or ignore obvious signs then you should be prosecuted and pay a significant fine for first offense.

Second offense should be at least a year in jail and a felony.

Third offense should be 5 years in jail and confiscation of your business.

121

Ive live in AZ for 30 years. The problem is bad but forcing citizens to verify other people is not the right way to go about it. I can understand a company having to verify citizenship but not a private individual. Can I harass my neighbors now by calling into the police saying I suspect they might be illegals because they are dark skin and speak spanish? Forcing citizens to essentially spy and tattle on other people is not the way to go about fixing the problem.

Bullshit. You could hire from many temp agencies who do verify legality, but you couldn't pay them 5 bucks an hour. And if you pay them more, then there is no reason to not use an agency. If they are willing to take less than minimum wage, that's a pretty good indicator they aren't Americans.

122 44 willow, I totally disagree, they are felons already, they should never vote or own a gun
Make their lives Hell and scary because they are felons
How's this for an idea, let the cops hunt down these felons

Posted by: ncj on his htc at April 14, 2010 12:00 PM (lVpjX

and Eman, I hear ya,

Seriously i believe the best chance, and so there are no need for round-ups, is take business licenses away from those that didn't complete do diligence on hiring practices,

no free medical, welfare, or jobs.

every reason to come is gone.

Only hire those that have work visas no excuses

 

make it not worth it for any business to break the law, not just fines, their license.

123

 Who said it's a privilege?  The government?

Yes, the government, by definition, would be defining what is and is not law for whichever group of people. In your example, "drivers" and "pedestrians".

State law determines who gets to be a "driver". It's not in the Constitution because in this case, each state agrees it's a good idea to treat "driver"-ship as a privilege. And, at bottom, no state grants the licence for "goodness"; it grants it for competence to drive.

See, idiotic comments like this explain why I'm not a libertarian.

124 Normally for trees I dont pay an hourly rate. Typically its $20 a tree. What exactly in my comment is BS? Why would I bother calling a temp agency when the guy is already at my door with a truck and tools ready?

125 So, if demanding the border be secured and illegal immigrants be sent home is called RACIST, why isn't it likewise a RACIST incident when an illegal immigrant KILLS a white American rancher?  Respect of the law and abiding by the law is called racist??  I don't get that whatsoever, but then logic and reason are not part of the statist argument.

Freedom loving and law abiding Americans watch the border to alert officials of illegal immigrant trespassing in the United States (a sovereign country BTW) are called racists.

A beloved, well-meaning American rancher is shot dead by an illegal trespasser in US territory is called an "unfortunate incident."

Some Socratic logic for our Democrat "friends"

Americans who disrespect immigrants that break US LAW and illegally enter the country are racist.
Immigrants that ignore US LAW and enter the country illegally disrespect Americans
Therefore, immigrants breaking US law and illegally entering the US are racist.

126 oops, due diligence*

127 130 Normally for trees I dont pay an hourly rate. Typically its $20 a tree. What exactly in my comment is BS? Why would I bother calling a temp agency when the guy is already at my door with a truck and tools ready?

Posted by: Chris B at April 14, 2010 12:29 PM (HDVpQ)

Ask for a copy of his bond. All those guys are bonded due to liability.That would be a good start. BTW, here in Bigbucks Arkansas, a tree costs around 100 bucks to get taken down and removed. *hint*.

128

Why do liberals like Malor inevitably come to dominate all [ostensibly] conservative institutions?

Or maybe we should just dispense with the pretense that AoSHQ was ever a conservative site in the first place?

Now now, Gabe is just fine-tuning the matter here. Most of the law is "teh aewsome", as Gabe himself acknowledges.

Even I, who loathe the Hispandering immigration romantic fools and cheap labor greedheads who are sadly all too prevalent in the GOP, understand this.

129 Just put an R by their name and they will be taken care of. The msm would be guarding the border around the clock.

130 "But sending them after folks who have lawful contact with the police will lead to more crime and more victims. And it won't solve the illegal alien problem."

Call me an asshole but if I am in a country illegally, I wouldn't assume that I could go to the police to report illegal activity perpetrated against me.  If you are an illegal alien and want to avoid this problem the answer is simple. Obey the law yourself, get the fuck out and apply for citizenship in a legitimate manner.  Must every fucking effort to enforce the law result in hand-wringing and worries about those that have unlawfully entered this country? 

They have chosen to come here knowing full well they are breaking our laws.  They are using services that were intended for the benefit of American citizens and taking jobs Americans WOULD do, especially in this economy.  My sympathy for their plight is nonexistent at this point.

131 I approve of Arizona's bill. I hope something like it appears in Ohio soon. Unemployment is hovering slightly under10% as a state average, but the local illegals in the Hamilton area have jobs. This situation is not going to end well, one way or another. I 'd just as soon see it settled by enforced legislation, myself.

132 What about an alien battered spouse who wants to call the cops on her husband? What about United States citizens who are afraid to report crimes because of their illegal alien parents?

I have no problem with the police checking on the immigration status of arrestees and maybe even criminal suspects. But sending them after folks who have lawful contact with the police will lead to more crime and more victims. And it won't solve the illegal alien problem.

What the hell is the alien battered spouse doing here?  Sucking up our services.  Like our police services.  The US citizens with illegal alien parents - what the hell are their parents doing here?  Sucking up our services? 

If you're an illegal, and someone commits a crime against you, or in your view - tough shit.  Go back to your own country and you won't have to deal with it.

133

"Do you know the quickest way to make an already crime-prone group have more crime? Make them afraid to have contact with the police."

I do know the quickest way to make the 450-500,000 illegal immigrants, 350,000 in the Phoenix metro area (2006 estimates from Pew Hispanic Center and Urban Institute) shrink as a demographic.  Remove the incentives, increase the disincentives. 

That's 350,000 in Phoenix metro (2007 estimated total population of 4,173,000) who have already commited the federal crime of knowingly entering the country illegally.  The big problem we are facing in AZ is not the % of our population afraid to call the police when witnessing a crime.  It is the % of our population whose first act upon entering the country was a crime.

 

134 Arizona thanks heaven that pain-in-the-ass thinks-he-knows-best (yet never contributes SOLUTIONS, only negative critiques) Gabe lives elsewhere. Californicator, let's hear what you do to solve illegal immigration where you live.

135 Haven't read the comments, but I wonder how this will withstand constitutional scrutiny whereas CA Prop 187 was struck down.  I thought the jist of the CA ruling was that the Feds were solely responsible laws regarding alienage.  If an alien is denied an essential service because of this law, I would think a liberal judge would declare it uncon.

136 " 78 Police officers, especially in inner-cities, have enough to do without adding the task of stopping people to check their immigration status. It would also just open their departments to charges of profiling because everyone knows it would be mostly Hispanics they'd be checking. It's different if they're breaking a law, but if they're not, police have enough to do without doing the Feds' job too.

Posted by: JEA at April 14, 2010 11:47 AM (ZO0u/) "

 

Let me put it in an easy to understand scenario.  Suppose you have a leaky water pipe.  Would you continually call in a high priced plumber to swab up the water on the floor?  No.  You would call a plumber to fix the pipe.

Are we clear now?

137

 Normally for trees I dont pay an hourly rate. Typically its $20 a tree. What exactly in my comment is BS? Why would I bother calling a temp agency when the guy is already at my door with a truck and tools ready?

Well, if the guy is a licensed and insured contractor, then it's not day labor.  If he's not , you're taking a huge risk if he gets injured or causes damage.  My guess is that your homeowners insurance would probably deny the claim, leaving you on the hook.

Look, if you don't care whether or not you're hiring illegals, just say so.  People are acting like a little due diligence is an insurmountable problem.

138 Criminals already prey on illegal aliens, particularly because illegals often live in high-crime areas and belong to high-crime income groups (they're poor). Do you know the quickest way to make an already crime-prone group have more crime? Make them afraid to have contact with the police.

Uh ... who cares?  I mean, really, WHO CARES?

The point is that someone should not want to be illegally in the US because they will be susceptible to many problems - which serves them right because illegals here put AMERICANS (you know, the actual citizens of the country) at risk.

Don't they teach about the concept of national sovereignty at law school?  Maybe your studies of the pathetically ridiculous illusion of "international law" got in the way of that?

139 Given that PHX is the kidnap capital of America, it's GREAT that the AZ Legislature keeps defending their constitutional right to self defense and rule of law given the former and current socialist/neoconservative constraints to forfeit sovereignty. Gov.Brewer better accommodate the Republican solemn initiative to protect AZ from the tidal wave of illegal aliens bringing robbery, murder, drug trade and kidnap as their initial means to "earning a living by reconquering" AZ the Mexican way.

140 Again, I buy the car, I pay my share for the roads, and I have a right to get around.  It's not less of a right because I drive a car, which is almost not optional for me, and I'm sure for many people and occupations it is a required part of their life. 

Posted by: Shillelagh at April 14, 2010 12:21 PM (Oz4Bj)

You're a little fuzzy on the concept of "rights," I think.  Tell me, who pays for someone to exercise their right to drive when they can't afford a car or insurance or gas?  Silly.

141

It's not in the Constitution because in this case, each state agrees it's a good idea to treat "driver"-ship as a privilege.

State governments are still governments.  So, OK, there's some arguing about who has the right under the 10th, since it's reserved to the States or the people, but personal transportation seems to pretty obviously fall under the category of an individual right.  I do not think there is a reason why States should have the right to decide how individuals transport themselves as a necessary function of their lives. 

It's not conventional wisdom, but it's not outlandish.  We've all been furious over Obamacare (and to keep it on a State level, Romneycare hasn't been getting a pass either), which is going to require us to buy insurance and submit to government regulation and mandates on a very basic part of our lives.  This is analogous to the current government regulations on operating an automobile. 

And, at bottom, no state grants the licence for "goodness"; it grants it for competence to drive.

I think I may not have been clear.  My point where I used "goodness" was that being able to transport yourself is not something granted to the people by the benevolence/goodness of the government, it's inherent in being a person.  I'm not convinced that dynamic should change when an automobile enters the equation. 

See, idiotic comments like this explain why I'm not a libertarian.

Unnecessary. 

142

Curmudgeon, over half of Gabriel's post opposes an enforcement provision of this law (i.e. a part that will actually mean something). That's not fine-tuning. That's cutting the muscle out of it.

Gabriel (with DrewM) has started up a thread, again, to give us rubes a moral education. It's okay for us to be generally "against" illegal immigration, like we're against rain during the picnic, or against getting old; but we better not do anything about it - that would be uncompassionate.

143 44: the idea is ludacris,<<<

I couldn't get any further.  Ludicrous.  God DAMN it, when are young people going to learn that the effective use of their mother tongue requires them to be able to spell and punctuate?

144

146 FUBAR:

If your point is that a right is not a right unless you are guaranteed to be able to use it, I think you may be fuzzy on what a right is.  No one pays anyone to exercise their right to free speech.  No one buys you a gun so you can exercise your right to keep and bear arms.  But if you can't afford a gun, or a forum for disseminating your speech, that doesn't mean you don't have the right to do it. 

Rights are liberties, not guarantees.  No one promises you the financing (except maybe in Obamaland), rather the idea behind a right is that no one will stop or hinder you once you try.

145 AS IF protecting illegal aliens encourages them to conform to rule of law. They aren't here legally. They are not complying with legal efforts to become US citizens via applications.  And they are not contributing as tax payers to PAY FOR PUBLIC SERVICES including police intervention, as if the police aren't going to respond anyway.

Gabe illustrates the insanity of a neoconservative feigning to be somehow "conservative" as his bleeding heart does not apply to fellow citizens, rather for criminals including the illegal aliens as Gabe excuses the inconveniences that upholding the Constitution entails. Conveniently excusing gross miscarriage of justice occuring  against Arizonans and America is so much easier, after all. Thieves wouldn't be thieves if they weren't suffering poverty--just look at Madoff,  Paulson, Geithner, and the entire institutions of  Goldman Sachs and the Federal Reserve if you must go figure.

146 Willow: 44. first- now to "send them all home, the idea is ludacris, many have  children here that have somewhat americanized we can't punish them. so what to do. 

Easy ... those childrens' parents are engaged in crime. Put them in foster care, and then deport the parents.

Allowing those kids to be in the hands of criminals is unacceptable.

If the parents risk losing their kids to the government, then they will get the hell out of the US. The kids were born here ... they can come back to the US once they get clear of their parents.

147 If your point is that a right is not a right unless you are guaranteed to be able to use it, I think you may be fuzzy on what a right is.  No one pays anyone to exercise their right to free speech.  No one buys you a gun so you can exercise your right to keep and bear arms.

Dumb.  No one pays FOR anyone to exercise their right to free speech.  The right to keep and bear arms is not the same as the right to one.  The right to drive presupposes a vehicle, doesn't it?

A little libertarianism is good.  A lot turns you into a kook.

148 "What about an alien battered spouse who wants to call the cops on her husband?"

INS allow for repatriation of "aliens in distress" (i.e.: pay for their trip home). I do not think it matters if they are legal or not.

Legal aliens (LPR) can call the cops on their spouses, or even own own a gun to shoot their down punching asses with, if need be.

149

It would also just open their departments to charges of profiling because everyone knows it would be mostly Hispanics they'd be checking.

Frankly, it's about time the Crybaby Commiecrats were called on "profiling". It is a basic part of policework. If certain ethnic and racial groups tend to be involved in certain activities, that's a deeper issue then the left trying to pretend that it's "unfair" to point it out.

And the Commiecrats have no problems profiling "teabaggers" and "militia types" and other "extremists" they don't like, do they?

150 What about United States citizens who are afraid to report crimes because of their illegal alien parents?

FIRST - Entering the US / being in the US without clearing immigration inbound needs to be a criminal act with 1 year and 1 day the absolute minimum sentence.

SECOND - Being an accessory has the same sentence.

151

My point where I used "goodness" was that being able to transport yourself is not something granted to the people by the benevolence/goodness of the government, it's inherent in being a person.

Right.  You're perfectly able to transport yourself on your feet.  In other words, you're perfectly able to avoid the interference of government by making the choice of not driving. 

I'm not convinced that dynamic should change when an automobile enters the equation.

I disagree.  I assume I don't have to go into details of what can occur when a car is operated dangerously. 

 

152 Criminals already prey on illegal aliens, particularly because illegals often live in high-crime areas and belong to high-crime income groups (they're poor).

Never thought about this before, but taken as a whole I can see some how some criminals would prey on illegal aliens...

... anybody want to go into business making 100% real mexican sausage and other processed meat products?

153 first- now to "send them all home, the idea is ludacris, many have  children here that have somewhat americanized we can't punish them. so what to do.   

Posted by: willow at April 14, 2010 11:22 AM (PtdKQ)

Oy.  This argument is the same as saying that anyone with kids can't be sent to jail - because of the poor kids ...  This is totally nonsensical.

Send the illegals home - or just outside of the US.  They are here illegally and must be deported.  PERIOD.

Anyone who is talking about giving extra citizenships to these criminals, who already are citizens of other countries, has no respect for US citizenship and no respect for the rights of US citizens in the US.  It's OUR country, not theirs, and they were not invited here.  They have to go and, while they are illegally here, they do not deserve ANY SERVICES at all.  None. If the kids suffer, then they suffer because of the poor choices of their parents.  That's life.

154 It would also just open their departments to charges of profiling because everyone knows it would be mostly Hispanics they'd be checking.

LOL.  Meanwhile, anyone who is against legalizing illegals is called anti-hispanic by the same hispanic groups that would call the above profiling.  A little cognitive dissonance?  Frankly, I'm sick of this idiocy.

155

For that matter, why do we need a licence to fly a helicopter? I should just be able to rent one and fly it onto the roof at work.

P.S. RON PAUL! RON PAUL! RON PAAAAAAAUL!

156 Druid: 157: FIRST - Entering the US / being in the US without clearing immigration inbound needs to be a criminal act with 1 year and 1 day the absolute minimum sentence.

And remove parental rights. No more dependents means no more federal court created "anchor babies".

157 What about United States citizens who are afraid to report crimes because of their illegal alien parents?

Odds are very high that the "US Citizen" also happens to be the citizen of another country, maybe even one the parents are citizens of, and can visit them any time s/he/it wants.

That, in coordination with threat of prosecution as an accessory, should facilitate the illegal aliens and their anchor baby going home.

158 I'd just like to add - the Federalist quote part of my post in #32 had nothing to do with the topic. I just felt like throwing a bit of historical perspective in the hopes that the leftist douchebags who lurk and troll here catch a clue from the Founders.

But back to the topic:

A TRIPLE-DOG FUCK YOU - to all illegal immigrants, but mostly their nancy-jawed apologists, and the hayburners they rode in on. You wouldn't be spraying that moral equivalency diarrhea if it was one of your neighbors or family who was murdered on the southern border - at least I would hope... and maybe that's hoping too much.

159 Druid: That's just heartless.

Those children need to be put into foster care, so they, as real American citizens, don't have to be raised in some third-world craphole just because their parents were criminals.

Put anchor babies in foster-care ... do it for the children.

160

I hope willow isn't registered to vote. She sounds like one of those people whose minds turn to goo whenever she thinks of teh children.

Thatcher she ain't.

161 Ahem, sock.

162 Anyone who is talking about giving extra citizenships to these criminals, who already are citizens of other countries, has no respect for US citizenship and no respect for the rights of US citizens in the US.

This is why I did not vote for McCain - he is an anti-American racist who commits treason by even suggesting that we surrender to an unarmed invading army/hoard. (I did vote for Palin though).

163

Driving is a privilege, not a right. On a public road, police have the right and authority to assess your capability to operate safely and legally.

Find that in the Constitution.

Hey, some people are happy that the government can interdict a private citizen up to his own business. I'm not. Checkpoints of any kind are an abomination. I know the courts have spoken but they spoke just plain wrong on this one.

The idea that it's a good thing the government can get up in your business for no reason is why I still do not call myself a conservative. And I love the way you all are so excited about illegals not reporting crimes because Hey, they got it coming! Commendable sentiment, conservatives.

164

Millions of Americans are out of work and not 1 word in the job creation bills about deporting the 20 million illegals taking our jobs. I own a contruction company and have laid off 15 American workers. Meanwhile mexicans are still working in Saint Augustine , Florida. I've called county and state with no results. We need to make them feel so unwelcome that they leave, not the bullshit we have going on now, Free health care, our jobs, and feel good liberals holding thier hands. Fuck them and anyone that helps or hires them.

 

165 This is why I did not vote for McCain - he is an anti-American racist who commits treason by even suggesting that we surrender to an unarmed invading army/hoard. (I did vote for Palin though).

Posted by: Druid at April 14, 2010 01:23 PM (Oe01r)

Yep.  I think that aiding and abetting illegals by trying to legalize their residency is one thing - criminal and deserving of severe punishment, but not traitorous - but to then go further and try to give them (an extra) US citizenship is clearly a bold step into the treason category.

I second your point - I didn't vote for McShame, but did vote for Palin ... though, I would have voted for McShame, anyway, as the Indonesian Imbecile was the only person in the US the dems could have found who was actually worse and more dangerous and more traitorous than McShame.  Amazing that we had to decide on shades of treason for the election ...  Unreal.

166 Illegals in Arizona currently call the Border Patrol (some allege that they are a "law enforcement" agency) all the time, or request that passer-bys like me call for them. It is often the quickest way back to Mexico after dropping off the load of dope they just humped over here or when they get tired of wandering around lost and find out that the lights of Nogales International Airport are not those of Phoenix, Denver, New York, or for whatever destination they were headed. 

167

ok, well, i guess my comment went over like a lead balloon. i don't mind. i understand. i'm pissed off too, but i don't blame one group, i blame everyone involved from the gvt, allowing it, from states to federal, to unions, and business, we can't reallypunish  the gvt, we can only use our vote to get them and their idealogy out. Business and states we could shut off funds,  business take their licenses ,other countries that don't control their borders, charge them for  their illegal immigrants medical, and any costs incurred by their citizens , for Mexico's  illegals, lean on them to do rightt by their own citizens, back charge mexico for every debt caused.

i just don't know the answer, , sorry. as i said they were  ideas. as far as ludicrous misspelling,  uh hmm,  my grammer and sentence structure is shameful.

168 grammar* damn it all.

169 I have no problem with the police checking on the immigration status of arrestees and maybe even criminal suspects. But sending them after folks who have lawful contact with the police will lead to more crime and more victims. And it won't solve the illegal alien problem.
Well in the name of all that is compassionate, please lets not make the illegals fear the Police!
Every contact with the police in most of the countries of origin for said illegals is an opportunity  for abuse or extortion. They don't think our cops are any different and avoid them like the plague for that reason.

170 The ability to drive is kind of off topic for illegal migration but I will say this to those who maintain it is a "right".

Sure you have the absolute right to drive any time you want while exercising that right on your own property.  Hell, you can even drive on your own property while drunk as a skunk (as long as you are not endangering a minor).

When you take your vehicle of choice out on to the "public" road you no longer are exercising a "right". You are making use of a "privilege" that is granted and regulated by the State to assure that you meet minimum qualifications. 

171 I live in Arizona.

If we get rid of the illegals, we won't have to worry whether they're afraid to talk to the police.

We don't worry whether leprechauns fear officers of the law over their status as fairies.

Why?

Because there are no leprechauns.

When there are no illegals we won't have to worry about them either.

If anything I consider this aspect of the law to be a bonus as it actively encourages illegals to go home to avoid being victims of a crime.

Think about that for a moment....it is pure genius.  The state government has found a way to turn criminals from being part of the problem to being part of the solution.

This will of course reduce the illegal alien population from a mixture of normal people and criminals to just a population of criminals....which is where our new concealed carry law comes into play. 

Very soon you won't need a permit to carry a concealed weapon in Arizona.  Violent crime will soon become a very self-limiting occupation here.

The rest of the country may be going to hell in a handbasket, but things are looking up here in the great state of Arizona.

172 @ 171

"Find that in the constitution"

You're a troll, but I'll bite anyway since you're clearly not a legal scholar.

The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.

173

"Let me put it in an easy to understand scenario.  Suppose you have a leaky water pipe.  Would you continually call in a high priced plumber to swab up the water on the floor?  No.  You would call a plumber to fix the pipe.

Are we clear now?"

No.

I call my brother. He's a plumber.

174 It's "LUDICROUS" fer fuck's sake...

Public Education and Rap "music" - Turning brains to shit for decades.

175

"Requires officials and agencies to reasonably attempt to determine the immigration status of a person involved in a lawful contact where reasonable suspicion exists regarding the immigration status of the person, except if the determination may hinder or obstruct an investigation."
 ...won't solve the illegal alien problem.

The policy may be ill-advised on balance, but the "won't solve the problem" canard doesn't follow at all.  From an economic standpoint anything that decreases the cost of illegal immigration will increase it, and anything that increases the cost of illegal immigration will decrease it.  That's why we've seen new entries slump and even some voluntary repatriation in the current recession, because it just doesn't pay like it used to.  There is no one silver bullet for illegal immigration, but it is a solveable problem if we were willing to pursue border enforcement, employment enforcement and police transfer payments for residency and citizenship, including food stamps, non-emergency "emergency" medical care and schooling expenses.

The hard-nosed state and local initiatives are on the table only because our political class and federal government have declined to pursue the most obvious and reasonable strategies to close the border and stop de facto transfer payments from legal resident taxpayers to illegal alien net tax consumers.  If you want to preempt local enforcement then I invite you to get on board supporting effective federal enforcement.  Until we get some effective federal action, this kind of precious-flower pose of outrage doesn't impress me.

176

i just don't know the answer, , sorry. as i said they were  ideas. as far as ludicrous misspelling,  uh hmm,  my grammar and sentence structure is shameful.

Posted by: willow at April 14, 2010 01:38 PM (PtdKQ)

Nothing personal, willow.  Those are just very destructive and dangerous ideas that you proposed.  The answer to illegals is quite simple (though not easy).  It comes down to a very basic question of sovereignty, and the kids have no business being part of the legal equation, in any way.  Frankly, the children of illegals gain their actual citizenships from their parents and have no need for, nor right to, American citizenship.  The US is not the property of the world.

177

progress,

perhaps my ideas are bad.  I do see problems with them, as i said i'm also mad about the illegality of it all, i'd just like to see more consequence on unions and business, and those that lobby for lawbreaking, as they are the ones that are the most complicate in the behavior,  benefit from it, and usually american citizens themselves, and they are not punished enough in my opinion.

take away their gaining (businmess,  and such ) from criminal behavior.

178 Posted by: willow at April 14, 2010 04:22 PM (PtdKQ)

I hear you, willow.  But the primary problem with illegals are the illegals, themselves, not the businesses hiring them.  Those businesses should certainly be held to the law, but that will not stop illegals from coming to a nation ready to dole welfare out to them.  The key to solving the illegal problem is nothing but interior enforcement on them, and very strict enforcement, at that.  There is no other way.

As to your ideas, I don't hold them against you.  You just should be aware that people are going to react, rightfully, with some fire to them, as they are dangerous and misdirected. That illegals drag their kids around and get them into problems (even anchor babies popped out in America - used more as tools than children by the illegals, frankly) with their own actions is not the US' fault nor the US' responsibility.  Quite the opposite.

179 I understand and feel properly chastised.

180

Posted by: willow at April 14, 2010 04:53 PM (PtdKQ)

 

You're still one of my favorites, willow.

181

anyway, nice discussion (liitle owie), i feel a little bumped and bruised, but most of the opinions are well thought out .,,,,appreciated, thank you for your patience.

 

182 Well, you still don't have to carry ID in the USA, like you do in authoritarian socialist Europe, so how can the cops "ascertain" immigration status in a brief stop? 

Noooo, they will have to detain people for awhile while they check databases.  If you can't leave while they're checking the database, that's an arrest.  And what would "probable cause" for the arrest be?  Brown skin?  Hmm.

This will end up costing Arizona money, after they get sued by some Mexican American USMC veterans who got arrested for Walking (or Day Laboring) While Brown.

183 What about an alien battered spouse who wants to call the cops on her husband? What about United States citizens who are afraid to report crimes because of their illegal alien parents?

Tell them to call the Mexican police.
Yeah, I'm a asshole.  Tough.

184 Hmmmm.

@ Gabriel Malor

You know about another group that has the same problem there Gabriel?  People who have to call the police but who may be subject to arrest and incarceration by the police?

Criminals.

Hey isn't that fucking interesting?  Why don't we pass a fucking law that say anybody who calls the cops can't be arrested -by- the cops for any outstanding arrest warrants, bench warrants or obvious criminal activity.  Hey that'll fucking work.  Because another population, other than illegal aliens violating American laws, are regular old style criminals.

Why if I were a drug pusher and someone robs me at gunpoint.  What the fuck am I to do?  Can I call the cops?  Explain that "Some motherfucking just ripped off my stash!?"  Why no I cannot Gabriel.

Ain't that fucking amazing.

185

Rule #1: Anyone who says "this proposed law won't stop illegal immigration" has to tell us what they would do to stop illegal immigration, besides opening up the fucking borders to anyone who wants to fucking come. I'm talking about a real solution.

Your turn, Malor.