1 RELEASE THE CO-BLOGGERS!

2 He points out that for five hundred years, Islamic supremacists have reacted to Western threats to their political and economic hegemony by encouraging jihadists, cajoling them with the promises of rewards in Paradise and glory in this world as martyrs.

This cycle goes all the way back to the conquests of Mecca and Medina, almost 1400 years ago.  Whenever the Islamists faced a threat or incurred a set-back, their solution was to go back to core Islamic principles and submit to them to prevail. 

3 When I was a boy, I could never understand how the Dark Ages happened. My problem was this: how could civilization just forget a bunch of stuff it knew?

Now I'm getting some insight into this question.

4 3 When I was a boy, I could never understand how the Dark Ages happened. My problem was this: how could civilization just forget a bunch of stuff it knew?

History doesn't repeat itself, it stutters or at least rhymes. 

Or as Snake Plissken would put it, "The more things change the more they stay the same".

5 Or as Snake Plissken would put it, "The more things change the more they stay the same".

Or as W. C. Fields would put it, "Never give a sucker an even break or smarten up a chump."

6

Did someone accidentally trip the sphitzer valve.  The site ain't loading and scrolling properly. 

Or is this a TSA server thing?

7

Today this is called “nation-building”.

This factualy incorrect.  There were Nations there to start with, however they were directly coupled to the Islamic political/philisophical system.  What was done was a decoupling of Government from the Religious institution... ie creating a more secular Government...

This the fight that the West is now in... for some reason we have decided (because of multiculturalism) to treat Religous controlled Governments, the same as those who believe in the Freedoms of the West... This is why we have Sharia controlled systems in the UN Human Rights commisions.... because we will not differentiate... and we need to.

8 Sorry, but that article is retarded. 1) The Portuguese actually allied with many Islamic states in the Indian Ocean against the Ottomans —who were at this time allied with Venice and Genoa. 2) Albequerque, not de Gama, was responsible for forging the Portuguese Empire in the East. You can't derive meaningful policy from dime store history treatises about the "clash of civilizations." They might make you feel good about yourself for some strange reason, but they don't tell you what to do.

9 His answer to that challenge is that the West needs to force Muslim nations into what he calls "the complex systems of norms that bind the modern system of states."

Well, until the day comes when I can leave my room at the Mecca Holiday Inn and mosey on down to the corner BBQ joint for a pork sandwich and a beer and have the proprietor wish me a merry Christmas, I'll believe it. I'm not holding my breath.

10 Jimmy Johnson, FTW!

If NASCAR shows nothing else, it proves that there are guys in this country who have huge brass ones and put 'em on the line regularly.

Compare a pathetic, whining hack like Osama Obama to a real American like those dudes and it's like putting Billy Barty in the ring against Joe Louis.

11 We have to get out of Afghanistan. Now. There are no "strategic objectives" we can reasonably expect to achieve there, no matter how much longer we continue the fight. Oh, and by the way: We're broke. Remember?

12 Yes, ultimately the Islamic World must change or die. None of us will live long enough to see it, but we have seen the start in Iraq.

13 We have a strategic interest in not letting Afghanistan return to what it was in September 2001.

14 OT Our newest Medal of Honor winner was at the Jet's game today and received a rousing standing ovation.He had a hot gf/wife with him too.

15 OT Our newest Medal of Honor winner was at the Jet's game today and received a rousing standing ovation.He had a hot gf/wife with him too. Posted by: steevy at November 21, 2010 05:09 PM (5/2Ve) Wife ( I hope since he is married ). I hope he had a good seat

16 >>we have seen the start in Iraq.<< Sort of. All the reconstruction propaganda notwithstanding, the country still looks like hell. The military leadership remains unimaginative and lazy, the political leadership is as corrupt as you'd expect, and the people are hopeless. I had a senior officer over here tell me last night (I'm in Mosul) that the U.S. had "an ethical responsibility" to stay in Iraq past Dec 2011 because of what we "did" to Iraq. He was completely serious. For the sake of our work, I had to bite my tongue, but it wasn't easy.

17 Oh, and BTW--his idea of an appropriate length of time to "support Iraq's fledgling democracy that we put in place?" Ten more years.

18 We've been supporting Korea's fledgling democracy for sixty.

19 Iraq needs a generation of kids who say "Saddam who?" That place has a long way to go.

20

Is it just me or is the site not loading properly . . . now granted, I myself am nearly loaded on Coronas but I'm not comfortably numb yet.

 

 

21 Iraq needs a generation of kids who say "Saddam who?" That place has a long way to go. Posted by: eman at November 21, 2010 05:21 PM (CbwqF) What about a generation of Palestinians who say "Arafat" who? Nay who am I kidding, that'll never happen

22 Huh. I thought India was Hindu with some Muslim bits.

23

The US needs to demand that all muslim states unequivocally renounce terrorism as anti-islamic, prosecute all those within their boundaries that will not renounce it, open their societies to freedom of worship for all religions, and guarantee the equal rights of all men and women.

Then inform those that will not take these steps that any attack on the US, or US citizens anywhere, will be regarded as having originated in any one or all of them of our chosing, and invite their leaders to imagine what happens if a nuke wipes out one of our cities.

It would work.

24 22 Huh. I thought India was Hindu with some Muslim bits.

Yes, but even out of a country with over a billion people, a 100 million Muslim minority may be problematic.  Especially with a Muslim country next door that is seemingly itching for a fight with the Indians.

25

OK, now I'm pissed.  I have to bring a 12 of NewCastle back . . . beer leaving my house as opposed to entering is just not right.

The beer is skunked, tastes like barley pop filtered through garden hose distilled through a mop and reconstituted as liquid yuck.

26 25, Yeah, but as you describe it, it isn't beer.

27

OK, now I'm pissed.  I have to bring a 12 of NewCastle back . . . beer leaving my house as opposed to entering is just not right.

The beer is skunked, tastes like barley pop filtered through garden hose distilled through a mop and reconstituted as liquid yuck.

Posted by: journolist at November 21, 2010 05:28 PM (O/NP5)

Good for you, being an assertive consumer.   I usually just figure I got screwed- better luck next time.  Beer leaves my house all the time- filtered through my kidneys first, of course

28 Beer leaves my house all the time- filtered through my kidneys first, of course Posted by: ombudsman at November 21, 2010 05:31 PM (c1oyg) All the time? Your aim is really that good?

29

the commenters really stepped up their A-game today. nice job!

sorry, I can only offer the obligatory generic 'nice-job'. I'm trying to sustain all my strength for the 2nd half of this Colts game.

30 All the time? Your aim is really that good?

Posted by: nevergiveup at November 21, 2010 05:33 PM (U5btG)

Well, the extra long hose gives me ample flexibility

31

Just read an interesting article over @ AT

^{http://tinyurl.com/28nctjx
Good comments.} 

32 The US needs to demand that all muslim states unequivocally renounce terrorism as anti-islamic, prosecute all those within their boundaries that will not renounce it, open their societies to freedom of worship for all religions, and guarantee the equal rights of all men and women.


Y'all saw the UN vote to condone goverments executing citizens for the crime of homosexuality, right?  79 Islamic and otherwise Third World nations voted for; 70 Western but rapidly becoming Islamified nations voted no.

33 i gotta stick with the Falcons game.  16-10.... halftime.  go Atlanta........

34 Just read an interesting article over @ AT

I always think that logo looks like Uncle Sam is sitting on the crapper.

35  The oriental despots have always played a "let's you and the extremists fight while I sit back and talk about what an oppressive asshole you are for fighting them" game.

36 The old-time Chinese did it, I mean, that describes the Boxer Rebellion in a nutshell. Heck, it describes North Korea in a nutshell today.

37 Are Boomer Esiason and Phil Sims the same guy?

38 Hell, we can't even succeed in nation building in Detroit.

39 Boomer's not as gay as Simms.

And I mean that in a literal way, not a "hate speech" way.

40 Are Boomer Esiason and Phil Sims the same guy? Posted by: ombudsman Boomer is from the Mirror Universe.

41 I stand corrected . . . that is when I'm not sitting.

42

Yeah, she's running.

43 Are Boomer Esiason and Phil Sims the same guy? Posted by: ombudsman at November 21, 2010 05:42 PM (c1oyg) No Sims has a super bowl ring and a moron dope head son

44 Too few think that this long-view shit means anything.  Like, history is boring.

They're wrong, of course.  But convince them?  Shit.  They're too busy watching Dancing with the Stars or something.

45

Britain in India, the Dutch in Indonesia and, later, the US in the Philippines, used military force to deal with the Islamist uprisings which targeted them.

True, but the Islamists were only fighting our forces in their lands.  Today we invite the Islamists into our nations and they have brought the fight to us. 

They can now attack our homeland when they couldn't before.  This makes a difference and gives them hope.  They are making converts in our prisons. 

#12 None of us will live long enough to see it, but we have seen the start in Iraq.~eman

Yeah, before we invaded, Iraq was a secular Baathist State and now it's an Islamic Republic based on Sharia Law.  Progress?  No, I don't think so.

46 What Can I say?

47 They can now attack our homeland when they couldn't before.  This makes a difference and gives them hope.  They are making converts in our prisons.

Posted by: Speller at November 21, 2010 05:50 PM (J74Py)

This is something we're not paying enough attention to.  Prison Imams need to be scrutinized and monitored

48 #12 None of us will live long enough to see it, but we have seen the start in Iraq.~eman Yeah, before we invaded, Iraq was a secular Baathist State and now it's an Islamic Republic based on Sharia Law. Progress? No, I don't think so. Posted by: Speller Surely you meant to say "peace-loving secular Baathist State".

49 The beer is skunked, tastes like barley pop filtered through garden hose distilled through a mop and reconstituted as liquid yuck.

Never buy beer that's under fluorescents; that'll skunk up a beer in a few hours, especially if it's not in a brown bottle.

Also, never buy Newcastle. It is barley pop.

50 What about a generation of Palestinians who say "Arafat" who?

What about a generation of American children who ask, "Daddy what were Muslims?"

51 Well, the extra long hose gives me ample flexibility.

And the rifling helps too, I imagine.

52 Greetings: As long as our leaders continue to give Islam ideological sanctuary by accepting the "religion of peace" delusion, there is little hope for a future free of the Clash of Civilizations. The aggressive, supremacist teachings of Islam provide the ideological underpinnings for any muslim demagogue to take advantage of when his desires are thwarted. It is Islam, itself, that must be identified, attacked, and destroyed.

53

The only rational thing to do with the Islamic culture is to create a vast reservation that allows nothing from the west to enter and any body who leaves it is forbidden to go back. Let the shiteheads revel in their 7th century paradise. I want to be able to hop on an airplane with out an ID for a CONUS flight....like it used to be. $29 Sacramento to San Diego on PSA.  Fuck those people.

And don't give me that but what about Ted Kazinsky shit...he should have been marooned on a small deserted barren island. A camera on a pole could have recorded the gooneybirds pecking his brains out through his eye sockets.

54 53 The only rational thing to do with the Islamic culture is to create a vast reservation that allows nothing from the west to enter and any body who leaves it is forbidden to go back. I nominate Mars. Hell, it's the Planet of (Holy) War, right?

55 17 Oh, and BTW--his idea of an appropriate length of time to "support Iraq's fledgling democracy that we put in place?"

Ten more years.

Posted by: railwriter at November 21, 2010 05:17 PM (BsK3p)

100 years.

56 ^{http://tinyurl.com/ceep4g}

57

He points out that for five hundred years, Islamic supremacists have reacted to Western threats to their political and economic hegemony by encouraging jihadists, cajoling them with the promises of rewards in Paradise and glory in this world as martyrs.

This is the point of reference that I am working from.  The Baathists weren't Islamic supremacists.  It is irrelevant to the thread topic that Saddam was a warmonger or despot. 

Making Iraq into an Islamic Republic like Iran is, isn't progress.  Basing all the law on Sharia means the Islamists have a large hand in making the laws and it's also means that after we're gone that they won't find it distasteful to run for public office.

It wasn't wrong to invade Iraq.  It was a mistake to allow Iraq to become an Islamic Republic. 

58 55 17 Oh, and BTW--his idea of an appropriate length of time to "support Iraq's fledgling democracy that we put in place?"

Ten more years.

Posted by: railwriter at November 21, 2010 05:17 PM (BsK3p)

100 years.

Posted by: John McAmnesty, Loser to an Incompetant Ideologue at November 21, 2010 06:05 PM (+6bzO)

1000+ years.

59

It wasn't wrong to invade Iraq.  It was a mistake to allow Iraq to become an Islamic Republic. 

Posted by: Speller at November 21, 2010 06:09 PM (J74Py)

We just sold a shitload of weapons to the Saudis. neener, neener!

60
okay, Dennis Kucinich

61 He's a real nowhere man,
Sitting in his Nowhere Land,
Making all his nowhere plans
for nobody.

Doesn't have a point of view,
Knows not where he's going to,
Isn't he a bit like you and me?

Nowhere Man please listen,
You don't know what you're missing,
Nowhere Man,the world is at your command!

(lead guitar)

He's as blind as he can be,
Just sees what he wants to see,
Nowhere Man can you see me at all?

Nowhere Man, don't worry,
Take your time, don't hurry,
Leave it all till somebody else
lends you a hand!

Doesn't have a point of view,
Knows not where he's going to,
Isn't he a bit like you and me?

Nowhere Man please listen,
you don't know what you're missing
Nowhere Man, the world is at your command!

He's a real Nowhere Man,
Sitting in his Nowhere Land,
Making all his nowhere plans
for nobody.
Making all his nowhere plans
for nobody.
Making all his nowhere plans
for nobody!

62 Making Iraq into an Islamic Republic like Iran is, isn't progress.

It's not the best outcome to be hoped for but it's not the worst.  I really don't have a problem with Sharia law, as long as it's contained in other countries.  Iraq isn't threatening Kuwait, Saudi Arabia or Israel currently.

I actually don't mind if a country is socialist either, as long as it's not expansionist and just spends it's time impoverishing it's own people.

63 57, That's the glass half-empty view. They need to figure out how to have a free and Islamic nation. Eventually the will realize Islam itself must be, ahem, re-interpreted.

64

Iraq isn't threatening Kuwait, Saudi Arabia or Israel currently.

Currently our forces are still in Iraq. 

They say the Treaty of Versailles led to WWII.  We won that war but lost the peace.  The lesson about taking care how the new status quo is set up after winning the war has been forgotten.  The seeds of future conflict have already been sown in Iraq and Afghanistan, both Islamic Republics.

If we wanted less Islamic supremicists, we shouldn't have entrenched Sharia Law in their constitutions. 

65

You cannot build a functioning Democracy without two important things... Freedom, and a fairly educated Population.

Germany and Japan post WWII had EDUCATED populations... Iraq has a chance... Afganistan??? uh no...

66 Guess it could be called colonization. We know how much Obama loves colonization and at least according to Dinesh D'Souza, not much.

67

@  34 

 

Commodian??

68

 

63, That's the glass half-empty view.

No, it's "the glass was chipped-on-the-rim and had the potential of cutting people so it had to be smashed and replaced, except the replacement was designed to be as big a potential threat as the one that had to be smashed"  view.

69 The best two (ok, technically three) words spoken here are Bugler's: "we're broke". I am currently reading Eric Weiner, The Shadow Market. If you want to sleep tonight, don't read chapter 1, which goes into what happens when we get into an economic scrap with China. Let India, China, and Russia deal with the Muslim nations. The West needs to pull back and rebuild its economic house. PS. If you want to sleep at any point during the following year, don't read up on the financial news coming out of Spain, Portugal, or California

70 If you want to sleep tonight, don't read chapter 1, which goes into what happens when we get into an economic scrap with China.

What happens?

71 Supposedly we're supposed to reduce our atomic stockpile.  How about reducing it by lobbing a few warheads into some choice Muslim nations. 

72 72 cut, jib, newsletter.  thx!

73 Meh.

I have been cultivating my next door neighbors, Bob and Kathy, as assets, for years!

I'm pretty sure that they are Lutheran, so that tells you that when they go off it's gonna be a big boom, just ask Janet Napolitano.

Question is, how to direct them though.

No telling when the simmering cauldron of rage, hate and ignorance that is my elderly next door neighbors (one of them, probably the guy, was awarded a purple heart! Fer Cry EyeY)! will bubble over.

I'd just prefer it if they were a shaped charge.

We don't actually discuus this, as I'm sure you understand but I feel that the husband and I have reached a sort of agreement.

"That dammed Eucalyptus tree is a hazard!"

Once Bob and Kathy "go hot", I promise to chain them both to the tree right outside my bedroom window, and damn the consequences!

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76

... the West needs to force Muslim nations into what he calls "the complex systems of norms that bind the modern system of states."

That's it in a nutshell, isn't it? They want to maintain tyrannical control, benevolent or otherwise. We want everyone in the world to join the world. And if one were to disregard ideologies and political theories and the social realism rhetoric and focus on the actual people that would be affected by going one way or another, one would conclude that our way is a lot better.

(But what do I know? I might be wrong. Maybe people like being hungry and dirty and afraid all the time. Maybe they enjoy burying half of their children.)

77

I suggest that Vasco de Gama precipitated nothing. This is typical liberal distortion of the historical record.

Islam conquered most of Spain and Portugal at the beginning of the eighth century and promptly invaded France. Islam was raiding (and holding) parts of France and Italy (eg Sicily) for centuries thereafter. Islam invaded and conquered southeast Europe in the 14th and 15th centuries, well before Vasco de Gama was a gleam in his father's eye.

It is convenient for the liberal mind to blame Islam's aggressiveness on Western provocation. Utter hooey as the record shows. I am of no mind to sugar coat the brutalities of Portugese empire (particularly in Africa and Brazil), but to suggest that the Portugese presence in (mostly Hindu) India in the 16th (and probably 17th) century was possible without a general toleration of their presence by local rulers is just silly. It was mutually profitable to Indians and Portugese (though not of course to Turks and Venetians).

But to a modern liberal, everything bad was ultimately caused exclusively by the West. The meme is so pervasive that it taints even conservative discourse. Time to inoculate against the meme.  

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