1 We're gonna win!

2

 but removing the poppy will prove harder than the battle.

because you know who does blow and not smack

3 I'm first? I get Nilla Wafers!

4 Because we will eventually be outbid. And I wouldn't trust Obama's administration to destroy the poppies. That would be one hell of a post-presidency business on the south side of Chicago.

5 Hey General!

Pull my finger!

6 Paraquat, Dude.

7
I've never understood why the hell we're not just buying the poppy crops.
...Because we would be funding the Taliban?

8 House to house, brutal.  Godspeed boys, we'll have some pudding waitin for ya when you get home.

9 I've never understood why the hell we're not just buying the poppy crops. Expensive, yes, but a small price against the costs of war.

As a lifelong Republican, I let the President know that we in the Mexican Legitimate Businessman's Club were concerned about the effect on market prices such a policy would have

10 Report on FOX now.

11

Let me see:  Armoured tractor with disc-er.  Napalm, 200 lb bomb.No more poppies.  It's only hard if you make it that way.

 

12 Let 'em (Hey Mr. Taliban, tally me banana) die for allan.

Ginsburg or  Ludden?

13 Because we will eventually be outbid.


That's true. But the Talibs and warlords would be reacting to us, rather than the other way around. Seizing the initiative is almost always the right thing to do.

Plus, it would dramatically raise their costs. They don't have unlimited resources, the more money they put into a poppy bidding war, the less is available for more nefarious uses.

If the price gets high enough, then they'll start threatening the farmers to gain access to the crops. Ruthless, I know, but there are opportunities to be exploited if they start getting hostile with the farmers.

14 I'm no military strategist by any means, but isn't some element of surprise still valuable before launching an offensive?

Seems to me they've done everything short of emailing the Taliban with the time and place of the attack weeks in advance.

15 With all of the UAVs you think the US Military would know where all the poppy fields are.  Then they could introduce the Afghan farmers to another great western product, Monsanto's RoundUp.  At the right concentration, it will leave the soil sterilized for about 1 year.

16 Kick ass, take no names, and forget Miranda.

17 Seems to me they've done everything short of emailing the Taliban with the time and place of the attack weeks in advance. Welcome to modern First World military warfare - we wanted the civilians to bail before we went in, to minimize civilian casualties.

18 when you have objective invested, annoucing your intention is long favored practice. Gets the collateral out of the way. Ghengis used severed heads, we used the media - not much of a difference.

19
I really hope there's good video of our forces popping this town like a giant zit.

20 We cant buy the poppy due to a long standing law against biying drugs for non-research purposes

21 Kick ass and take na...

Nah, just kick ass.  God/Allah/Gaia/Krishna/Buddah will sort them out.

22

16 - Don't give 'em any ideas

23 FDR emailed Tojo before invading Poland, and the operation was still a raging success. When I led the offensive with a speech on horseback with my warpaint on, I yelled "they may take our parking spaces, but they'll never take our reserved table at Katie's!!"

When we set up our CP for the night, some local Polish girls came by with cheese latkes. They were fascinated with Commander Biden's brainpower and mighty sword of happiness.

24 You are the first person I have seen to suggest that, I also wondered about that, as we use processed heroin in hospitals (I think??) we should buy it, get it made there too and safe ship it, or spray it in the taliban, maybe buy all the cocaine and blow that on them too, they would cease to care when shot and killed. Actualy my stepdaughter is there with the RAF, a weapons tech, making bombs work, she will put a good will note from me on some!!!

25 Shoot straight my brothers, and watch your asses. Hopefully, they can complete the bulk of their mission before the weather heats up.

26 I think if the USA buys up all the opium crop, that will just spur more production.

In other words, it would change the supply (temporarily), but not the demand.

27 When Janet Reno led the charge on The Alamo, she had a trumpeter sound the "Deguello", offering the teabaggers a chance to walk out of there alive.

Good times, good times...

28 Ace, you know the answer. The war in Afghanistan will go the same way as the war on drugs. Follow the money.

29 Fact is, if we'd have nuked Tora Bora, we wouldn't be fighting this battle.  We wouldn't have had to fight near as hard in Iraq. 

Splittin' nuclei was my prescription at the time, and history has borne me out.

We had to look at the world and say "The 9/11 attacks were an existential threat to the United States.  Therefore, glow, mother fuckers.  Any questions?  Ask the nips."

Now we're reading them their rights.

The North won because William Tecumseh Sherman broke the will of the enemy.

We're reading them their fucking rights.

30 #16

They want all the macho diehard fighters to show up; its a schoolyard challenge.

If they show up, they get killed, and if they don't show up, they're cowards and abdicate control over the city.

31 I have no fear.  Emperor "Barry/Napolean" and Grand Marshal Joe "I've won the Iraq War" Biden, are in charge.

32
You wanna fuck up the poppy sales?  Poison a huge portion of it and put it right back in the supply chain.  Who's gonna cry when some Amsterdam dip shit goes face down and fills his hemp cargo pants with organic hippie shit?  All his dip shit pals.  That's who.  Then you'd get a drop in demand.

33 I hope this fight is carried out successfully with no casualties but did we really have to telegraph the fuck out of this attack?

34 #31     That Holz guy is one smart mofo.

35 I hope the imperialist infidels respect our tradition of holding wedding parties at terror hideouts at 3 AM

36 I'm prepared to help solve this "poppy problem" starting this weekend. I could have solved the shit out of this problem Super Bowl weekend.

37

"Kick ass and take na..."

Barry & the Dims have established the "new" battlefield reality.  Capture 'em.  Mirandize 'em.  Coddle 'em. 

Unintended consequences - why bother.  Kill 'em all, wherever, and whenever you find them. 

38 I hope this fight is carried out successfully with no casualties but did we really have to telegraph the fuck out of this attack?

Yes, we did.  It worked like a charm in Fallujah.

By giving them weeks to prepare, which means saying goodbye to their goats, militarily, we demoralize the "hangers on" and "halfway dead-enders", which in any population of guerilla fighters is about half of them.  Also gives the innocent time to get the fuck out of Dodge.

Then, we can just kill what moves.

39
38 I hope the imperialist infidels respect our tradition of holding wedding parties at terror hideouts at 3 AM

Posted by: Achmed Akbar

Look,  Achmed,  shit happens.  And look who's in charge.  A pal of yours,  no?  So don't be belly achin' over some corpse bride and what not.  It's not like Bush is still in office,  is it?

40 I hope the imperialist infidels respect our tradition of holding wedding parties at terror hideouts at 3 AM

I, for one, remain culturally sensitive to your traditions.

41 WAR IS NOT THE ANSWER , Obama is so brilliant he knows this is the right thing to do.

42 The big problem (as usual) is Obama. If there is a firefight, and we have 20 wounded and five soldiers KIA.  Why the commander of the fighting unit will be court marshalled for making a bad decision in standing to fight this battle. Obama calls there things "Battles" Five have already been reprimanded for doing this exact same thing.  Obama's rule: At the first sign of entrenched enemy willing to fight. SOUND RETREAT! The enemy may have women and children with them.

43

Kick ass and come home, guys and girls.

I fucking hate the Taliban.

44 That Holz guy is one smart mofo.

Posted by: Semper Gumby at February 12, 2010 06:30 PM (44J/C)

Thanks, but I think it is, and was at the time, a no brainer.

We hold the historical right to nuke the dogshit out of our enemies who have attacked our homeland.  No one else has that.

Putin would've popped a woody 18 inches long, because it would've given him a green light to go balls deep in those fucking animals in Chechnya.

China would've tut-tutted while getting a minor load in their pants.

The shitball regimes of the ME would've put their fucking heads down and said nada.

Break their fucking will, dammit!

45

Though I'm concerned for my brothers over there, I'm more than confident in their ability to conduct a serious ass-whoopin'. 

There is a great sense of satisfaction that the U.S. military can go in there, tell them what they're going to do, when they're going to do it, and that the enemy knows they can't do fuckall about it except hope that heavenly virgin thing is fo' real.  And during the ass-whoopin', our boys will be doing everything reasonably possible and beyond to reduce civilian casualties - moreso than in any other armed conflict in the history of the world both large and small.  And U.S. casualties will be minimal. 

The satisfaction increases knowing that the Russians would have gone in there with 3 times the manpower and equipment, killed 80% of all living things in the town, flattened it, lost a third of their men, and still not come away with a tactical victory.

There is no more competent and professional military than the U.S. mlitary on Earth.  Send 'em to hell guys!

46 #22: No drugs. We are using it for muffins and salad dressing. Problem solved.

47 >>>Fact is, if we'd have nuked Tora Bora, we wouldn't be fighting this battle. We wouldn't have had to fight near as hard in Iraq. Probably. We are sort of stupid about supposedly avoiding violence and death, or trying to make it nice and stuff, which winds up only encouraging and requiring more of it. There was actually a Star Trek about this.

48 WAR IS NOT THE ANSWER , Obama is so brilliant he knows this is the right thing to do.

I love those "War is Not the Answer" Bumper stickers.

Always ask the driver what the question is.  They drool.  Every time. Answers are easy.  Questions are a bitch.

49

In Re: Poppy.

Is it possible to just pay them not to plant it?  Like a US Farm Bill?  Is that possible?

50 wiping out the poppies is a bad idea.  Andy McCarthy has wrote a lot about this at the corner, but the jist of it is that the regular civilians grow the stuff and pay the Talibs for protection/distribution.  We are only screwing ourselves by starving 48 year old Hamji's 13 year old wife by taking away their sole source of income, as well as fostering an ungovernable, resentful populace.  Eradicating the crop is a bad way to go.  And no poison can effectively survive processing.

Buying it is bad, especially since we would have to secure the pick up and transport against Talib attacks.  Not to mention we would likely get only half their crop and the Talibs would benefit  from the increased prices due to the drop in supply

No easy answers except to do a full Fallujah on them and take them out through encirclement and devastation.  And that, sadly, costs us the blood of Marines and Soldiers.

51 >>>Fact is, if we'd have nuked Tora Bora, we wouldn't be fighting this battle. We wouldn't have had to fight near as hard in Iraq.

Probably.

We are sort of stupid about supposedly avoiding violence and death, or trying to make it nice and stuff, which winds up only encouraging and requiring more of it.

There was actually a Star Trek about this.

Posted by: ace at February 12, 2010 06:41 PM (jlvw3)

I'm not a "nuke 'em" kind of guy, and nukes probably wouldn't have even been the most effective weapon militarily there.  But it sure would've been the most effective politically, and would have taken a lot of wind out of a lot of goat-shagger sails very quickly.

That shit saves lives.

52 #52: Hmmm, yeah, we could get Ben Nelson involved...the Poppy Payback!

53 Oh and thanks for throwing in the Star Trek reference.

This place needs to keep its "smart military blog" reputation up to snuff.

54 Poppy growers, here's a great new fertilizer we're generously giving you. It's called Agent Orange. This hazmat suit? Uhh, pollen allergies.

55

o/t

Here's a question for you legal types. The President believes that terrorists rate Constitutional rights. How then can he legally execute them on the battlefield when they haven't been given a fair trial?

56 I don't think using nukes would have been a good ides. Hell, we can't even interrogate terrorists without world leaders and other pussies losing their shit.

57 56 Oh and thanks for throwing in the Star Trek reference.

This place needs to keep its "smart military blog" reputation up to snuff.
Posted by: Herr Morgenholz at February 12, 2010 06:45 PM

Do you know the old Klingon proverb; "Go Ahead, Make My Day"..

58 How then can he legally execute them on the battlefield when they haven't been given a fair trial?

He can't.  He doesn't know how firearms work.

59 Confucius,

Rules of engagement.  Only fire when fired upon.  Cops do that shit all the time.  We also don't kill every man in the battle area.  No weapon = no killy the haji.

60

Have you guys seen the breachers?  Cross between an MRAP and an Abrams.  You could say it's the modern day equivalent of the Rhino tanks of Normandy.  God, I love us.

 

http://tinyurl.com/ygwt2tc

61 We need to destroy the Pashtun culture that feeds the Taliban (ask the Comanche), cut off Arab money flowing to them, cut off narco-funds, and make Pakistan an inhospitable refuge.

62 As a lifelong conservative Christian republlican, I'm very concerned with the militarism so prevalent on this blog..

63 I don't think using nukes would have been a good ides. Hell, we can't even interrogate terrorists without world leaders and other pussies losing their shit.

That came later.

Recall that one of the first things Ivan did after 9-11 was stand down their army.  It was a symbolic move. (All armies got some sort of the "itchy" order that day.  Perfectly reasonable.  Putin gave a very very public order to get your fucking fingers off the trigger, as did many others.)

Half the world expected to get some intelligence about our isotopes.  Had they gotten it, the world would be very different now.

64 53 wiping out the poppies is a bad idea.

Andy McCarthy wrote about this as if he was analyzing an upcoming primary election. He was wrong. There is nothng we can do that will not disrupt the lives of the farmers and piss them off. Put bluntly, they consort with, and so are, the enemy.

What we need to do is ruthlessly destroy the poppy crops and kill anyone who tries to stop us. Farmers will get caught in the middle, but who cares? German workers got caught in the middle when we bombed German weapons and munitions factories during WW II. Too damn bad. For them.

Given that there is no reasonable alternative, and that the average Afghan farmer can't really retaliate in any effective fashion, destroying their crops, their farms, their way of life seems the only way to go.

65 Who is this "Ace" everyone keeps referring to?  I thought this was the blog for the International Pudding Conspiracy.  There are almost as many dead people posting here as are voting in elections in US cities

As for Afghanistan, watch for O to take credit for everything, including going there in the first place and not listening to him and running away.

66 We need to destroy the Pashtun culture that feeds the Taliban (ask the Comanche), cut off Arab money flowing to them, cut off narco-funds, and make Pakistan an inhospitable refuge.

I agree, with a caveat.  The "Pashtun Warrior" thing is a cultural artifact that isn't that dangerous to us.  They throw rocks and goats.  (The Japs had the whole Bushido thing, too.  How did those swords do against B-29s?)

Cut the Arab money?  Yes.  (I'm lookin' at you, Saud).

Pakistan?  Center of gravity on a par with Teheran.

Does anybody actually think that the path to victory doesn't run through Teheran and Islamabad?

We've spent damn near a fucking decade avoiding that question.

67 The farmers feed their families off the poppies.  Their issues are food and clean water, not whether a runaway in NYC gets bad skag.

It's a fucking plant. 

68 68 Who is this "Ace" everyone keeps referring to?  I thought this was the blog for the International Pudding Conspiracy.  There are almost as many dead people posting here as are voting in elections in US cities

i am questioning that myself. who is this "ace" and why won't he just answer my questions about trig palin

69 "poisen can't survive the processing" - anthrax is.

70 Can't poison the poppy plants. The end result may be the demise of half of Obama's staff.

71 There are good suggestions here but the current C in C won't pay any attention.  When the govmint don't listen to obviously good ideas, you end up with Japan since 1990 ( at best ) or Bolivia since forever ( worse ) or at worst, Cuba / NoKorea

The Wehrmacht proved that even the best army in the world can't overcome stupid-crazy decision-making by the C in C

( not a Godwin-like Hitler analogy, but inching closer )

72 The Wehrmacht proved that even the best army in the world can't overcome stupid-crazy decision-making by the C in C

( not a Godwin-like Hitler analogy, but inching closer )

Not Godwin at all.  Just learning from history.  Or from "The Princess Bride^®"--
Never fight a land war in Asia!

73

I think Andy McCarthy is out to lunch on that whole poppy thing.

If you really are growing poppies to eat, then have some seed corn. If they don't get with the program, they can starve. If we make them dead through whatever means we can, then they can be as pissed off as they want and it really won't matter.

We really need to rip apart that tribal culture as fast as we can.

74

"16 I'm no military strategist by any means, but isn't some element of surprise still valuable before launching an offensive?

Our guys were just offering each of them 40 acres and a mule if they wised up and quit in the face of an upcoming total whoop-ass, ugly beat down.

Seems they want to play General McAllah Custer. (Peace be upon 'em.) 

So long boys. And thank you for playing.

 

 

75

Seems they want to play General McAllah Custer. (Peace be upon 'em.) 

So long boys. And thank you for playing.

 

 

Posted by: Shoot,Move,Communicate at February 12, 2010 07:17 PM (ssTrW)

A lot of them who don't want to play can't get out, and I have real sympathy for them.  Innocents are going to die, as they always do in war, and I think a little more adult perspective is called for in light of that.

76

#63:

Sweet!

The Peter Gunn theme would be better.  (Put the link together - everything is cooler with Mancini.)

http://www.youtube.com

/watch?v=dcflCzZlLcQ

77 75  Never fight a land war in Asia!

I agree:  I shouldn't have gotten that close to the Yalu and annoyed all those screaming Chinese fellows

78 I agree:  I shouldn't have gotten that close to the Yalu and annoyed all those screaming Chinese fellows

Posted by: Douglas MacArthur at February 12, 2010 07:27 PM (JrRME)

It's OK, Doug.  We forgive you.

79

Never fight a land war in Asia!

I dunno, it worked for me.

80 My air war in Asia kicked ass, right before I sat that very same ass on FIRE.

81

The only good Taliban is a dead Taliban......and, inside every Afaganistani there's an American just dying to get out....

Creating sustained and protracted theaters of war in your enemies backyard is the best way to keep your homeland safe..... God bless our Troops.

82 Just kick ass.  We don't give a fuck about taking their names.  Just kill them.

83 The problem is, the Press will be inbeded with the military, and count the bodies, and declare half of them were not Taliban, so therefore, civilians were killed, and some company commander will go to jail.

84 No quarter, boys. End those motherfuckers.

85

"A lot of them who don't want to play can't get out, and I have real sympathy for them.  Innocents are going to die, as they always do in war, and I think a little more adult perspective is called for in light of that."

Been in that situation. Done that thing. Don't give me that "adult perspective" thing. I know that all too well.

What has to be done is what will be done as it has throughout history. You can lead the assault by out passing out flowers to the misguided, dug-in folks.

The Marines doing the assaulting will finish the issue by finishing the issue.

Try it.  You will appreciate the real perspective. (Warning: It will not involve armchairs and comfy cushions.)

A paraphrase from The Book of the Way: Approach a battle as if going to a funeral.

Warriors know that.

86

A paraphrase from The Book of the Way: Approach a battle as if going to a funeral.

Warriors know that.

+100

"A lot of them who don't want to play can't get out, and I have real sympathy for them.  Innocents are going to die, as they always do in war, and I think a little more adult perspective is called for in light of that."

This whole thought is libtard at it's best. This reflects the thinking of people who don't fight to win. Hey buddy, put your ass in harm's way and see if you are thinking bullshit like this.....

87 "I've never understood why the hell we're not just buying the poppy crops. Expensive, yes, but a small price against the costs of war."

Probably has something to do with the same reasons we weren't real big into buying Japanese or German manufactured items during the middle '40s.

Something about supplying an enemy with the money they need to raise an army against you, or something.

88 Herr Morgenholz - I don't give a rats ass about the "Pashtun Warrior" culture - nothing special there.  It's the Nth generation of sociopathy induced by childhood sexual abuse that needs to go.

89

Officials in the area have been signaling the offensive for weeks with hopes that innocent civilians and dispassionate Taliban fighters would flee the area.

 In the immortal words of Tuco "When you have to shoot...shoot. Don't talk."

 This appears to be less a military offensive than a media event. Sure publicizing the offensive will allow innocent civilians and dispassionate Taliban fighters to clear out of the area. But it will also allow passionate Taliban fighters to clear out as well. They'll head for Pakistan, wait out the offensive, and return to wreak havoc.

90

If opium poppies are anything like the garden variety poppies that "grandma" used to have in her garden, good luck trying to eradicate them.  The ones that I have in my garden - handed down from an heirloom gardener in our historic neighborhood - grow EVERYWHERE!  They're beautiful, and they love to grow in really horrible soil.  The ones that do best in my "garden" are the ones that grow in between the bricks of my walkway.

I let the pods dry, then collect the seeds and give them away to neighbors and friends.  Even at that, I end up with lots and lots of sprouts each spring from the seeds that manage to get out..... 

91 Thank you for the courtesy of waiting several hours before you called me "libtard", "passing out flowers", etc., all the while beating your meats chests about how bad ass you are.

Damned manly, there.

92 As we've seen several times before, the Taliban are a parasite fastened to the populace.  Most of the farmers, like folks around the world, just want to feed their families and live their lives.  They grow poppies because it pays better than growing grain.

Rather than buying their poppy crops, we should pay them to grow grain.  This would deprive the Taliban of their drug income, and make grain available to those around the world who could use it.  Since the grain would have a market value, our cost would be the difference between the subsidized price and the  market price.  Kind of like how we do with our family farms, like Archer Daniel Midlands.

93 no need for human intervention while carrying out their tasks.