1 Cue May day protests.

2 She didn't back down.  Good on her! I'm listening to her right now.

3 Bravo!

4 awesome, just awesome

5 To Gov. Brewer: Incoming!

6 Good on you Jan!!

7 Geraldo Rivera hit the most

8
Excellent. Today Jan Brewer is my hero.

9 I guess Auntie Zeituni had better stay out of Arizona...

10 Good for her!!!!!  Oooooh, Bambi's gonna be mad!

11

Brewer signs bill.

Rick Sanchez hardest hit.

12 Suck it Bammer, like it's Larry Sinclair.

13 Gabriel Malor call your office.  Sheriff Joe was just ahead of his time.

14 another Repub growing a pair. Excellent, excellent, bwaa-ha-ha.... just what Obama wants us to do! Fools..! No seriously, this is a good thing, and good things are... good...

15 Yay!!! As a resident of Scottsdale, Az, I am so proud to have her as our Governor.

16 wow, thanks guys

17

In the immortal words of Homer Simpson:  Woohoo!

On Wednesday night's "after the show show" with Bret Baier, ALL THREE MEMBERS of the panel slammed this idea and Nina Easton was the worst.  The live-blog comments were 100% in favor of this bill.  Baier was visibly surprised.  After the commenters (including The Kraut) were told to come out of the ether and try living in the real world of suburbia, they softened their rhetoric.  Baier closed the segment by saying that we would definitely be discussing this in the coming days. 

 

18 Damn sock.

19 Atta girl Jan!

20 "Governor Jan Brewer to Obama: Screw you."

Beautiful.

21

So how long before a caring federal judge declares this unconstitutional?

You know it's coming...

22 Jan just went after the media... nice work!

23 hardest hit:

1. the true McCain
2. Lindsey Graham
3. dems hoping for more voters
4. Gabriel Malor
5. Geraldo River
6. Rick Sanchez

24

McCain's gonna be mad too.

25 Atta girl Jan!

Posted by: John McCain at April 23, 2010 04:39 PM (I1/U/)

Yeah right.

26 Here is the bill Gov. Brewer just signed. http://bit.ly/aB8c5t

27
If Retarded Barry doesn't back down from the verbal diarrhea he spewed earlier today, we're going to have a states' rights crisis.  I wonder whether that jackass knew he was painting himself into a corner like this.

28  Good.. Unfortunately now all the left wing loony's will probably harass her and her family... I hope not. But is is SOP for the left to do this.. But good for her, and the ones who wanted this!

29

RushBabe at April 23, 2010 04:39 PM (LKkE

I'm tired of folks that live above and beyond this crap waxing about how great illegal immigration is for everyone. Bullshit. These elitist assholes NEVER have to confront this shit.

30
hahahaha, I'd like to have seen the look on McCain's face when he heard the news because he's the FIRST person the media is going to go to to denounce the governor and the bill.

31 Did she use the word unfair several times in the presser?

32 70% of Arizonans polled in our Migrant-friendly bleeding heart Az Republic wanted this bill to pass. Thank God!

33 #27 - I wonder whether that jackass knew he was painting himself into a corner like this.
Posted by: MikeO

One wonders if he cares. Causing disastrous conflicts between the state and federal governments is probably a bonus, from his point of view.

Was that too cynical?

34 If anyone has an e-mail that doesn't preclude non-Arizonans, please post it so I can send the guv an "atta girl!"

35 Posted by: MikeO at April 23, 2010 04:42 PM (lBmZl)

let him keep talking, his constant cheap shots at his opponents has put his favorables down and soured independents; the guy while horrible for the country, is gold for Republicans politically

36 GOOD!!!

Tell Barry to stick it straight up his ass.

37 Outstanding Gov. Brewer!

Plus they are finally realizing the virtual fence is bullshit.  We told them that from the beginning nobody listened.  All that money wasted.

38 I just hope that Texas does the same.

39 They are already calling it racial profiling...

40

Fast Freddie Barnes just got real sulky. Him wuvs illegal immigrants. Him thinks they is just the greatest thing since sliced fucking bread. Of course, Fast Freddie has zero contact with illegal immigrants.

Fuck you, Freddy.

41

Posted by: Igoo From The Herculoids at April 23, 2010 04:42 PM (uFokq)

actually McCain supported the bill, though you can question his motives

42 Makes me miss my home state of Arizona even more.  For now I'm stuck in Rhode Island, where it seems like my conservative vote will just get tossed into the sea. 

43

DrewM,

You need to get the interview Anderson Cooper did last night with the State (senator? Congressman?) who put the bill together. He is an ex cop, and despite Cooper's repeated attempts, he made a lot of sense, was level headed and very knowledgable about what's in the bill.

At the end of the interview you got the feeling that Cooper didn't really read the bill(no suprise), but more importantly the guy who put it together didn't come across as a raving anti hispanic lunatic.

it would be a good video to add to this post.

44 Barry: Obviously Gov. Brewer acted stupidly.

45 Si Se Puede!

46 on one hand, this is interesting. On the other, Brett Michaels' brain is hemorrhaging

47

Posted by: Mjim at April 23, 2010 04:44 PM (V8B//)

what's wrong w/ racial profiling?

48 Bammy will call for a Salsa Summit at the White House to discuss this issue.

49
...actually McCain supported the bill

I know, but the heat just got turned way up. It's law now...and it's now national international

50

I can't understand why those on our side are duped about this being a race issue. Legal vs Illegal, how is that so hard to figure out?

51 O, up your nose with a rubber hose.

52 what's wrong w/ racial profiling?

I'm just reporting what the critics are saying about the bill as of right now. I'm sure they will find other things to bitch about as time goes by.

53 I just LOVES me some Tenth Amendment!

54 Did Lindsey Graham just have a head explosion like in Scanners?  My guess is... yes.

55 This is going to be an interesting SC case.

56

I'm tired of folks that live above and beyond this crap waxing about how great illegal immigration is for everyone. Bullshit. These elitist assholes NEVER have to confront this shit.

Posted by: Dack Thrombosis at April 23, 2010 04:42 PM (P33XN)

Dack, I don't even live in AZ, but I see how insufferable this situation is in VA.  I feel sorry that these folks have the awful situation they do, but their arrogance and brazen behavior in flaunting their status here and unwillingness to "melt" into the Melting Pot leave me cold.

And believe me, the viewers in AZ, CA and NM raked Ms. Easton over the coals.  She tried to redeem herself by talking about Southern Cal. roots, but the commenters said, "Then you should know how LA has been devastated."

57 I'm tired of paying for illegals free ride aren't you guys?

58 Today Ich Bin Ein Arizoner

59 (hat tip to) mcnorman who posted Article IV section 4 of the Constitution on the other thread.

This should get interesting in the future.
The left will be quite entertaining explaining how border crossings, killings, and drug running do not fall under either both of the "invasion" or "domestic violence" parts.

60 Anyone else thinking that this may give Obama cover to say something like "well, we need to hurry and pass Amnesty (or something similar) before the frustration spills into hate.. etc etc"?

61 I admire a woman with ballz of steel. 

62 39 They are already calling it racial profiling...
Posted by: Mjim

What, you mean that they're raiding the Irish pubs at 3:30 p.m.?

63
I don't live in AZ, either; I live in Massachusetts.

And I swear, if there are really only 13 million illegals like they claim, twelve million of them are living in my city.

64 I would like to know what "race" an illegal immigrant is.

65 Whoa!  Judge Nappy just told Cavuto that this would be a calamity for Brewer and AZ and that Hispanic voters would flee the GOP in droves.

66

Posted by: Mjim at April 23, 2010 04:44 PM (V8B//)

if healthcare is Obama's waterloo, Amnesty will be his Armageddon and suddenly that 100 seat gain in the midterms isn't so far fetch

67 Deport Michelle Malkin!

68 Gov. Brewer has been taking some heat for her support of a sales tax increase measure on the May ballot.  In her defense, she's the grownup who inherited Janet Napolitano's Ariz version of Obamanomics, and unlike in DC, the state bills actually have to be paid.  Signing this bill will earn her some well-deserved cred.

69 Andrew Napolitano just trashed the governor of AZ.  Libertarians dig illegal immigration I guess.

70

 She tried to redeem herself by talking about Southern Cal. roots

In other words, she's talking about a childhood spent in Southern California about...what?...forty years ago? Uh huh. California is still stuck in that golden age of the 1960s and early 1970s.

I don't live there and have never even visited Southern California and I know it's NOTHING like forty for fifty years ago.

71 Racist teabaggers trying to ruin Cinco de Quatro !

72

Live stream http://tinyurl.com/5jq7y9

 

73 keeping foreign citizens from illegally entering your state is seditious!

74 First Christie, now Brewer. Momentum is wearing the (R). Too bad there aren't any elections coming up.

Oh hey...:-)

75 Buy that girl a taco, hand salute!

76 Baier closed the segment by saying that we would definitely be discussing this in the coming days. Posted by: RushBabe

Nice catch. I wish Fox would post the roundtable on line for the rest of us peons.

77 In my neck of the woods, police just conducted a sweep that resulted in the arrest of over 35 illegal gang members. Obviously, I'm the problem.

78

Jan better grit her teeth and hang on tight- she's in for a wild ride. I hope she stays strong. She probably hates f-ing Obama as much as the rest of us do. I'm going to send her a giant thank-you card.

79

Posted by: RushBabe at April 23, 2010 04:51 PM (LKkE

Judge nappy? the same guy who calls Lincoln one of the worst Presidents, says slavery wasn't that bad, and says terrorists should get civil rights who Beck championed until he realized his crazy ideas and backed away from him as he did w/ Ron Paul?

Hispanics aren't powerful enough...YET...to turn elections, while their vote is a nice share we don't need it as bad as it's hyped. plus AZ has become a more solid red state, heck McCain is in trouble there for not being conservative enough!

80 I give it less than 6 months before a court strikes it down as violating the equal protection clause.

81

Did you hear that sound? 

That was the sound of Janet Napolitano being c*ckslapped by a governor with big balls.

82 How did Governor Brewer sign the bill with both middle fingers in upright and locked position?

83

I think I just heard Obama's head exploding!  How dare this woman cross The One?

Just too funny!

84 Jan will be appointed Sec. of the Interior toot sweet!

85

I just watched the AZ Gov speak on the issue. Another woman not ready for prime time. Not quick on her feet - halting speech - white - blonde hair. That is to say, she has those characteristics that make her an easy target in the media.

She better get her talking points together and her delivery righted or Obama will make her look stupid and, by extension, her correct position on illegal immigration. Libs know so much is about show, even when they have less substance.

86 Freddie Barnes is a douchebag and  typical of the eastern corridor Repube elite.   You're damn right he's against this new law.   Who's gonna' mow their lawns, clean their homes and take their kids to private school in the morning?  Fuck 'em all...

87 Honestly, I can't see this law surviving the inevitable court challenges.  And the illegals will all just go to CA and Texas anyway.  But will take the victory for now.

88 I just hope that Texas does the same.

There will be a domino effect. 

Illegal aliens aren't stupid.  They will leave Arizona for less hostile places.

Arizona will be relieved of the enormous costs inflicted by their illegal alien population and will have an immediate boom.  As social services needs diminish, the social services workers will have to migrate, as well, and they will take their lefty votes with them.

This will put pressure on other states because the Arizona illegals have to go somewhere.  If we're lucky, all illegals will end up in the bluest of the blue parts of the country as the redder states roll up their welcome mats, and the lefty assholes can deal with MS13, random violent and property crime, and overburdened public services.

89

Posted by: Blackford Oakes at April 23, 2010 04:53 PM (BiCQw) 

will it come w/ a creepy intro song like on his radio show?

90 Has any lawyer thought of creating a class action lawsuit against the federal government on behalf of all American citizens who have lost a loved one due to an illegal being in the country, via murder or drunk driving or some other means??

91 These establishment Republicans have this absurd notion that if we pander to illegals it will mean big gains for the GOP in getting the Hispanic vote.  Didn't McCain's horrible showing among Hispanics in the last election totally disprove that theory forever?

92 The day laborer component is akin to a law against loitering - I think the profiling issue would be the actual problem.

93 65 Whoa!  Judge Nappy just told Cavuto that this would be a calamity for Brewer and AZ and that Hispanic voters would flee the GOP in droves.

Posted by: RushBabe at April 23, 2010 04:51 PM (LKkE

I disagree w/Nappy..IMO I think the exact opposite is going to happen. Just as in all cultures their is a pecking order esp. w/Hispanics. They do not appreciate the illegals coming in on the cheap while they had to work hard a pay their dues. Lots of resentment and bad blood. 

 

94 You may want to send Lindsey Graham a case of tissues.  He'll be hit hard by this legislation.  But I'm sure he'll find time to lament it in front of what ever TV camera happens to be handy.

95 Bravo Arizona.

96 This will put pressure on other states because the Arizona illegals have to go somewhere.  If we're lucky, all illegals will end up in the bluest of the blue parts of the country as the redder states roll up their welcome mats, and the lefty assholes can deal with MS13, random violent and property crime, and overburdened public services.
Posted by: MikeO

Like California doesn't have all those things already?

Oh, you must mean someplace like...Oregon!

97

17ALL THREE MEMBERS of the panel slammed this idea and Nina Easton was the worst.  . . . . (including The Kraut)

If the Dems weren't such pantywaists about projecting American power, and so pro-Palestinian, the Kraut would still be writing speeches for them.  He's a progressive on most domestic matters.  He lines up with us on military matters, usually.  That's it.

98 Heh. More Popcorn:

Blago subpoenas Dick Durban too!

99

1. the true McCain
2. Lindsey Graham
3. dems hoping for more voters
4. Gabriel Malor
5. Geraldo River
6. Rick Sanchez
7. immigration romantics

8. "Hispandering" GOP fools who can't read polls honestly or accurately

9. Cheap labor greedheads

10. The Wall Street Journal

100

Sadly, I suspect this will be declared unconstitutional.   CA at one point passed a law denying illegals state resources.  That law was struck down by a liberal interpretation of the constitution.  No doubt they are forum shopping right now for a friendly jurisdiction to file a challenge in.

 

 

101 Was that too cynical?

Posted by: Dianna at April 23, 2010 04:44 PM (qrFCz)

 

No, not at all.

After watching this clown (both domestically and abroad), I can not escape the conclusion that he is trying his hardest at stirring up discontent and conflicts.  He and his ilk want chaos.

102 I just hope that Texas does the same. Posted by: 'Nam Grunt I wish that would happen, but I don't think it can. It doesn't matter that the border is a de facto war zone, complete with incursions into US territory by a foreign army, the Austin liberals and the Hispanic caucus will do everything in their power to make sure that DOESN'T happen there. Unless the good people of the Lone Star State stand up and back up a governor who is willing to put his career on the line, as did this ballsy lady. I don't know if Rick Perry is up to is. I really don't think Medina (the troofer?) or Kay Bailey Hutchison is either. But I would appreciate being wrong about that!

103

Rick Sanchez in meltdown mode now.

Breaking...

All morons and moronettes warned to stay off streets tonight. A drunken Rick Sanchez behind the wheel of a car warning has been issued. I repeat, a drunken Rick Sanchez behind the wheel of a car warning has been issued. If you are within a twenty miles radius of the Pink Sombrero bar (located right next to CNN headquarters), seek shelter immediately. 

104 "...it shows is that people want enforcement. Do that first for awhile and then maybe, maybe we can talk about the rest."

EXACTLY!  They lied to us last time with "there will be NO MORE AMNESTY, we'll will secure our borders."

Well they haven't and they can kiss my ass as far as AMNESTY PART II.

105

Judge Nappy just told Cavuto that this would be a calamity for Brewer and AZ and that Hispanic voters would flee the GOP in droves.

In other news, African Americans can be swayed by demogogues on the Left.

The Law Of Anyway is still not understood.

106 Of course the debate as Obama and his lapdogs in the media want to frame it is this means we need 'comprehensive immigration reform'. Actually what it shows is that people want enforcement. Do that first for awhile and then maybe, maybe we can talk about the rest.

Actually what is shows is people who are paying the price for illegal immigration want enforcement.  But nationally there are a lot of SWPL people who aren't affected by it and use the issue as a way to prove they aren't racists.

107

Cue May day protests.

Cue post May Day roundups.

108 How long before ACLU gets an injunction?

109

Illegals won't be flocking to Texas, because there aren't big built in government subsidies for them here.   California and then Nevada is where they'll go now. 

And the claim that Mexicans would "flee" the GOP - they done already fled, so that horse is out of the barn. Conversely, that means there's nothing left to lose on that count, so go ahead on and do what you want.

Finally, Obama above all people should know that this bill *Had* to be passed so that we will be able learn what's in it. 

110 According to some liberal twat commented on the governor's fan site on Facebook and said the Bill of Rights and the Constitution are not the same. Oh, and the Bill of Rights protects everyone in the world.

111 We need this Guam, WHERE ITS LITERALLY A LIFE AND DEATH ISSUE!!!!!!!

112 Remember George Will's "Let us reason together" crap?  I don't get it.  All those TV conservatives and Republicans are pro-amnesty.

113 I just might try to get stationed at Ft. Huachuca  after all.

114 Cue May day protests.

I was in Seattle for those.  The whole city was rooting for 'em.  The turnout was pitiful.  You never saw so many beat up old El Caminos.

115 I live in lower Mexico aka ," California," and in my city of 180,000. 200,000 are illegal  aliens. I can't  for the life   of me figure why actual U.S. citizens of Hispanic  parentage would want more competition from their illegal couterparts. They are on corners in the morning waiting to get a job. Hello, Mister immigration, go pick them up and send them back they're not hard to spot!

116

But nationally there are a lot of SWPL people who aren't affected by it and use the issue as a way to prove they aren't racists.

Those SLWPL people only deal with illegal aliens as gardeners and maids, an have a relationship to them akin to the one Scarlett had with Mammy or Jack Benny had with Rodchester, and that's at best.

Feed the SLWPLs to the MS-13 gangs and wise them up.

117 Finally, Obama above all people should know that this bill *Had* to be passed so that we will be able learn what's in it. Posted by: Tom Servo at April 23, 2010 05:05 PM (T1boi) Ya know I used that line with a girl in high school about getting into her pants and all I got was this here broken nose? Go figure.

118 Wah wah wah.

119

I just watched the AZ Gov speak on the issue. Another woman not ready for prime time. Not quick on her feet - halting speech - white - blonde hair. That is to say, she has those characteristics that make her an easy target in the media.

She's getting better and gutsier. She jumped on board to oppose the Hell-Care fiasco and she's improved a lot since she started. I think she is emboldened by the growing conservative momentem.

120 109 How long before ACLU gets an injunction?

Posted by: Vic at April 23, 2010 05:04 PM (QrA9E)

 

Hopefully soon, and hopefully fatal.

Oh, I thought you said "infection"....

121 I blame Miller Brewing Co. for this mess.

122

I can't  for the life of me figure why actual U.S. citizens of Hispanic  parentage would want more competition from their illegal couterparts.

The sane ones don't. The late Caesar Chavez of United Farmworkers Union fame was the first "Minuteman", trying to get them deported because he knew they were undercutting wages.

But somewhere along the way La Causa of better living conditions was warped into La Raza identity politics.

123 I think this development reminds me on the grip Religion has on us in this society...

124 Governor Perry: Are you paying attention here?

125 Once again, a conservative woman with balls shames the milquetoast males in the GOP.

126 I think this development reminds me on the grip Religion has on us in this society... Posted by: Christoph to the rescue at April 23, 2010 05:09 PM (38UQ3) Yeah remember when all them Cardinals from Rome were flooding this country with cheap labor????

127 And the claim that Mexicans would "flee" the GOP - they done already fled, so that horse is out of the barn.

I got news for you, that horse was never in the barn.

128 108

Cue May day protests.

Cue post May Day roundups.

They'll 'sneak' across the border(been there done that) to Kalifornia, Texas or Nevada before there's any protesting.

129 They are already calling it racial profiling... Uh, yeah when there are 30+ million brown illegals here, I think it is fair to look at brown folks that speak no English (required for citizenship) and have no ID of any sort as possibly being here Illegally! DUH! PS: not replying to you but to those calling it racial profiling, because it is one race above all others that seem to be sneaking in without buying a ticket.

130 the Kraut would still be writing speeches for them.  He's a progressive on most domestic matters.  He lines up with us on military matters, usually.  That's it.

I see little truth in that statement.

131 The new economic forecast :: long BBQ sauce, short taco sauce.

132 89  Right on Right on!

133 I hope McCain and Obama are so saddened by this that they cancel their next romantic weekend together.

134 Wow, what's it been since she signed it? Less than an hour? How come the ACLU hasn't filed their law suit yet? We know it's coming. I can't count the number of things we here in CA. voted for that have been stopped in their tracks by some friggin Judge. One has to wonder why we even vote here anymore.

135

Well, Gov. Brewer should have the support from the whole state, it is not as if she's all along.

If need be, there will be others joining AZ for support. 

136 So I guess Geraldo will threaten to spit on Jan Brewer now, huh.

137 C'mon, that was just a joke!  Everyone knows that I swallow.

138  But nationally there are a lot of SWPL people who aren't affected by it and use the issue as a way to prove they aren't racists.

So instead of deporting illegals, we can ship them to other states. Or better yet, drop them all off in DC.

139 It's estimated there's between 400,000-500,000 illegal aliens in the city of Houston alone.  If TX passed a bill like this, that would make for one heck of an exodus, assuming the city actually enforced it (huge assumption).

140

Yeah remember when all them Cardinals from Rome were flooding this country with cheap labor????

Actually, the Catholic hirearchy has been shameful on this. Cardinal Roger Mahony, who also hid the child sex abuse scandals, is the worst.

141 MS-13 is at war with us. We may as well be at war back.

142 This is a fuck up.  Will recount what Rove said at lunch tonight on ONT, but bottom line, we need Hispanic votes, 35% to win.

143 One has to wonder why we even vote here anymore.
Posted by: Donna

1) We're eternal optimists?

2) If we don't vote, no one will know we object?

3) We are incurably well-brought-up, and know our duty as citizens?

Help me out here!

144

A lot of the problem with illegal immigration is abetted by the Mexican government. Remittances from illegals are a huge part of Mexico's GDP, and there's no way they're going to that money up unless they're forced to. (If any other country interfered with our internal lawmaking in the way Mexico does with ours, it would be considered an act of war.) Mexico has been exporting their social problems to the US for decades now -- their criminals, their unemployed, their "surplus persons", their political agitators. The US is their safety valve. Take it away and Mexico explodes. (Well, explodes even more on top of all the drug-gang violence).

Mexico has a serious problem with the drug-gangs on a sovereignty level alone. The writ of the government doesn't run much outside the citys, and cops from locals to the Federales are either corrupt or too scared to do anything. If the US manages to close off the borders to illegal entry, that's going to put a hurt on Mexico both financially and socially. Their government might not survive it.

 

145 John McCain emails to say, "It's a nice a start but personally I won't rest until every illegal immigrant is thrown out of this country or until the day after my GOP primary. Whichever comes first."

Well-played yourself, Drew.

146 It's estimated there's between 400,000-500,000 illegal aliens in the city of Houston alone.  If TX passed a bill like this, that would make for one heck of an exodus, assuming the city actually enforced it (huge assumption).

Well, we certainly wouldn't want Galveston Island to capsize.

Texas is sitting at 8.2% unemployment. Opening up some jobs would be a good thing.

147 Dianna, you're right. I haven't missed a vote in the 42 years I could vote. Even the small local things. I guess I always hope for the best!

148

Posted by: Kemp at April 23, 2010 05:17 PM (2+9Yx)

we got about that number of Hispanics in 2008 and that was a bad Republican year, and we lost by just 7 points w/ independents going big for Obama and a bad turnout for our side, your logic doesn't follow that fact, all we need is about 30% of their vote and we'll be safe with that if independents vote Republican...and they have turned towards Republicans

149 Once again, a conservative woman with balls  shames the milquetoast males in the GOP. Posted by: Dack Thrombosis

Dude, this tranny obsession is getting out of hand.

Steel, guts, moxie, doxie, spine, flint, courage, fortitude, mettle, spirit, tenacity, resolution, will. <- pick one.
/pedant

150 144 This is a fuck up.  Will recount what Rove said at lunch tonight on ONT, but bottom line, we need Hispanic votes, 35% to win.

Yeah, because nominating Captain Amnesty himself as our standard-bearer two years ago really did wonders.

_{If by "did wonders" you mean "lost the Hispanic vote by 2-to-1".}

151

This is a fuck up.  Will recount what Rove said at lunch tonight on ONT, but bottom line, we need Hispanic votes, 35% to win.

And that's about what we always get. The ones with sense vote not to have illegals undercut their labor.

In other news, 10% of African Americans can't be demogogued and are not bound at the hip to the welfare nanny state.

The Law Of Anyway. "They're only going to hate us anyway..."

152 Hey Barry!  FUCK YOU!

153 The best part is Amnesty John having to grit his teeth and smile and talk about how he is for this law (when everybody, and I mean everybody knows that's bullshit).

154 my state, FL, is at 12% I envy you

155 The drug gangs began seeding the Mexican police and judicial systems with their people decades ago. By now every "legitimate" Mexican government organization is beholden to the cartels. The cartels run the Mexican government.

156 144 This is a fuck up.  Will recount what Rove said at lunch tonight on ONT, but bottom line, we need Hispanic votes, 35% to win.

I'm in Colorado.  75% of the Hispanics I know (who are ALL legal) would approve of this bill.
In other words, this is an American thing, not a race thing to most people.

157 149 Dianna, you're right. I haven't missed a vote in the 42 years I could vote. Even the small local things. I guess I always hope for the best!
Posted by: Donna

You and me, both.

Question - were you born in California? If so, you are an exception. That's part of the problem, you know.

For the record, my entire household (four adults, currently) were born here. My parents weren't, which makes me the "newcomer" in the menage.

158

The cartels run the Mexican government.

There is hope, though. Colombia broke the cartels after a long and bloody fight. Mexico has a lot more resources than Colombia ever did. But there has to be a commitment to restoring the rule of law, and the Mexican government has always been rather capricious about how it enforces laws -- one of the reasons it has always had a basket-case economy.

 

159 All the Mexicans are gathering in downtown Phoenix right now. Arrests have been made already. Looks like my city is about to erupt into a Mexican riot

160

The Catholic Churches here are all against immigration enforcement.  They like the extra parishoners and cash donations.

161 my state, FL, is at 12% I envy you


At least you guys are eligible for Tier IV unemployment. It doesn't kick in until the state hits 8.5% unemployment.

162 Bullshit. These elitist assholes NEVER have to confront this shit.

How many non-native English speakers are enrolled in law schools around the country?  How many in science and engineering?

163 Dianna , yes I was born here. I lived five years in Texas as a child but have lived here ever since. My Father was born In San Francisco, but my Mom was born in Sweden. She was legal.Spent two weeks on Ellis Island.

164 161 All the Mexicans are gathering in downtown Phoenix right now. Arrests have been made already. Looks like my city is about to erupt into a Mexican riot
Posted by: Gride

And that's going to help them, how? Explain this to me, someone?

165

All the Mexicans are gathering in downtown Phoenix right now. Arrests have been made already. Looks like my city is about to erupt into a Mexican riot

What better way to prove you're ready to come out of the shadows and take your place as lawful American citizens?

Let's riot! That'll show 'em!

166

All the Mexicans are gathering in downtown Phoenix right now. Arrests have been made already. Looks like my city is about to erupt into a Mexican riot

Begin the roundups.

167 Whoa!  Judge Nappy just told Cavuto that this would be a calamity for Brewer and AZ and that Hispanic voters would flee the GOP in droves.

They have already left the GOP because the Dems give them all the freebies they want.  If they're illegal they shouldn't be able to vote, right?   It's true what a commenter said above the legal immigrants are just as pissed as we are.  They waited, stood in line, followed the law, paid their dues and now they will be fucked over.  I don't believe there will be a backlash against Brewer.

168 All the Mexicans are gathering in downtown Phoenix right now. Arrests have been made already. Looks like my city is about to erupt into a Mexican riot

Good thing AZ has those awesome gun laws.

169 Only Republican women have balls. 

170 As much as I love this bill, I'm dreading the sneering liberal triumphalism when this inevitably gets smacked down.  They will fight it with every resource at their disposal, on all fronts, and I don't know what Arizona can really do short of seceding in some form.  Are they tough enough?  I just can't imagine it.

171 Wait, if we make pot legal, MS-13 goes away? I don't think so.

172 144 This is a fuck up.  Will recount what Rove said at lunch tonight on ONT, but bottom line, we need Hispanic votes, 35% to win.

Posted by: Kemp at April 23, 2010 05:17 PM (2+9Yx)

According to the Census, 30% of Arazona's population is hispanic. Rasmussen says 70% of Arazona's voters approved of the bill. So do you think the 30% hispanics voted against it, and it still won?

173

It's true what a commenter said above the legal immigrants are just as pissed as we are.  They waited, stood in line, followed the law, paid their dues and now they will be fucked over.  I don't believe there will be a backlash against Brewer.

Bingo!

Of course we should promote that Talented Third of Mexican Americans, just like we should promote that Talented Tenth of African Americans, in the GOP.

But that's all we are going to get. The Demunist Commiecrat demogoguery of "identity politics" is too strong.

Sorry if the truth hurts.

They're. Only. Going. To. Hate. Us. Anyway.

Repeat until it sinks in.

174 This is a fuck up.  Will recount what Rove said at lunch tonight on ONT, but bottom line, we need Hispanic votes, 35% to win.

Sick of not doing the right thing out of fear that doing the right thing will alienate some group or another.

175 169 Begin the roundups.
________________

See! Internment camps! And Beck thought I was being silly!

176

The timing of the rancher being killed a couple weeks ago near the Az border and the growing violence of the Mexican drug wars had a lot to do with this bill passing. Sheriff Joe's sweeps every week, human smuggling, and on and on. The killings in Mexico are really vicious. They cut off ears, heads, carve out eyes and noses.

Gotta run and enjoy hiking in our lovely Phx mt preserve. It's usually 90 deg this time of year but weirdly it's only 68/

177 Please pass the popcorn.

178 I'm really getting tired of having to be careful not to offend this group or that group. Who gives a s..t what they think. If they are here illegally then they should be treated by the laws that are in place. Unfortunately, they are not enforced. O.K. Arizona told Obama, if you won't enforce them we will.Let's hope some more will get some balls and follow suit. And that goes for the little piss ants at Comedy Central who were too afraid to offend the Muslims. Mohamed,Mohamed, Mohamed. Come and get me.....

179 Well done, Governor Brewer. Thank you for listening to the legal residents and those still vying for citizenship... legally.

I can see November the turning worm from my house.

180 Anyone who thinks that illegals aren't voting has got their head completely up where the sun don't shine. Don't think so? Check out all of the people in Dem run cities who get jury summons and don't show up, and nothing happens.

181

Good on her.  I'm pretty sure some of the La Raza race baiters will be up in arms, but there is a growing number of Hispanic/Latino Americans (with an emphasis on the American part) who are getting mighty sick of the bending over backwards for illegals.  It's a real kick in the slats to people like them, who came into this country legally an dhave done their best to assimlate or at least abide by the laws.  In fact, there are some people who may have started out illegal who tried like the devil to get into the legal citizen status and assimilate who aren't very happy (had an aunt that was one of these -- necessity drove her to get here illegally, but she was determined to become an American and not in name only -- illegals who flaunted their status and got all manner of bennies pissed her off; she lived like a dog for years, under the radar before she got her chance at citizenship, and she didn't mooch once she did).  Both groups -- while small and relatively quiet -- feel as though all their hard work to "make America" have been for naught, thanks to the parasitic (and often criminal) pos that make them look bad.

Wholesale amnesty (or even just the situation we have now, of not cracking down on illegals) is basically saying to those people -- suckas!

182 How could Arizona, who elected rock solid conservatives like John McCain and pragmatic centrists like Janet Napolitano go for this?

This will do massive damage to our nation as those of us in the educated class will be forced to spend precious time cleaning our own toilets and pressing our own pants instead of imparting our wisdom to the ignorant masses.

183 If hundreds of thousands of illegal politicians, lawyers, and journalists were sneaking in the country you can bet that these amnesty suckers of cock would be howling for blood and deporting people left and right.

As things are now, only us little people have to worry about losing our jobs to someone willing to work for cash at 70% of what we made and no benefits.

20 years ago my entire family worked in the hay business out in Blythe, California. I started raking hay when I was 10 years old and worked in the hay until I left home for school. It was honest work that we could make a living at.
Now, there is not a single English-speaking farm worker at the company we used to work for. Not one. And they won't hire anyone that doesn't speak Spanish or won't work for cash. With this economy as hopenfucked as it is, I'd be happy to drive a tractor and bale hay.

I'm glad this lady said Fuck You to the man-child. That prick hasn't been told NO often enough in his life. I bet he cries himself to sleep on the 1st Wookie's shoulder tonight.

184

171 All the Mexicans are gathering in downtown Phoenix right now. Arrests have been made already. Looks like my city is about to erupt into a Mexican riot

Good, get all them mother fuckers in one goddamned place and round'em up & ship'em out. Goddamn Mother Fuckers, get the fuck out!

185 The 10th Amendment acted stupidly

186 Spray down the protests with green dye from cropdusters.

Then arrest every green motherfucker that comes to collect a welfare check on the 1st.

187

I question the relevance of the 10th amendment in this situation.  I think it couild be argued that the 10th amendment reserves power to the states for things not expressly granted to the Federal Government.  Naturalization and Alienage are areas that the Constitution does grant authority to the Federal Government.  I bet there are judges out there that would say therefore the 10th amendment does not apply.

But I am no Harvard Law Professor.

 

188 Now, there is not a single English-speaking farm worker at the company we used to work for. Not one. And they won't hire anyone that doesn't speak Spanish or won't work for cash.

That is what really pisses me off. The politicians talk about fences and deportations and other BS.  The real core of the problem though is people giving them jobs.  If they forced people to check for legality and provided a way to check then this problem would go away.

Heavy fine per illegal for first offense, jail for second offense, and confiscation of company on third offense.

189 I question the relevance of the 10th amendment in this situation.

That is the problem with this issue. The "supremacy clause". The federal laws hold sway so therefore the State laws can not be more stringent than the federal laws.

The problem is the feds refuse to enforce the federal laws. This law, or significant portions of it, is likely to be struck down. What the States should do is file a Writ of Mandamus to demand that the federals enforce the law and the part of the Constitution that protects the States from invasion.

190

That is what really pisses me off. The politicians talk about fences and deportations and other BS.

Sorry, but fences aren't BS. Employer sanctions AND fences AND deportations are needed. Now THAT would be REAL comprehensive immigration reform.

191 190

I question the relevance of the 10th amendment in this situation.  I think it couild be argued that the 10th amendment reserves power to the states for things not expressly granted to the Federal Government.  Naturalization and Alienage are areas that the Constitution does grant authority to the Federal Government.  I bet there are judges out there that would say therefore the 10th amendment does not apply.

But I am no Harvard Law Professor.

Nor am I -- but one would think that the combination of Article IV, Section 4 of the Constitution plus the 10^th would allow the bill.

SINCE the Federal Government is not fulfilling the "protection" part, the 10^th -- to me, at least -- would allow the states the authority to take whatever steps the citizens (70% ?) believed necessary.

If I played a lawer on TV or something, that's the way I'd argue the point.

192 If people started taking the cookies way from some of these crooked-ass businesses who hire the illegals a lot of this shit would cease.

Put their asses in jail and chain the doors shut. If I hear one more greedy, illegal hiring sonofabitch say that Americans won't do these jobs I'm gonna make the news.

Wall Street bankers got nothing on big California farm owners. Crookedest sonsabitches you'll ever meet. Work you to death and call your funeral to make sure you aren't faking it.

Same for most industries that hire illegals. They think they are lords of the plantation.

But I'm simple. There may be nuance that I can't grasp.

193

Sorry, but fences aren't BS. Employer sanctions AND fences AND deportations are needed. Now THAT would be REAL comprehensive immigration reform.

Posted by: Curmudgeon at April 23, 2010 05:50 PM (ujg0T)

That's true.  Fences aren't BS.  They are needed.  But they are not nearly the most important part of dealing with illegals.  Deportations and stopping the idiocy of giving US citizenship to anchor babies are the most important aspects, without which any other attempts to halt illegals will fail.

We also have to get past this notion that international borders are playgrounds.  Our borders should be militarized and anyone who tries to breach them should understand that they are taking huge risks with their lives and will find no mercy.   The idea that we are responsible to save illegals trying to violate our sovereign territory is the most insane idea I have ever heard.

194 And that's about what we always get. The ones with sense vote not to have illegals undercut their labor.

This is the way I see it:  If we need 35% now, when the children of ten million illegals grow up and start voting we'll need 45%.  If they maintain the previous generation's fertility, twenty years later we'll need even more?

195 We need to enforce our border the way Mexico enforces their southern border.

America isn't an all-you-can-eat buffet of welfare.

196 197 ... Deportations and stopping the idiocy of giving US citizenship to anchor babies are the most important aspects, without which any other attempts to halt illegals will fail. ...

WINNER.

197 They're protesting US sovereignty in front of the Arizona Capitol, now.  I bet a good bunch of illegals can be found and escorted out of the country just from that group - with the rest being aiders and abetters of the invasion, which is ... you know the word.

198

Shit. There goes the free shit I was gonna sign up for. When I get stopped for my 7th DUI this year I can no longer just say "No Hablo"?

Shit. All that money wasted on tanning... gone! Back to being a stupid white prick, paying taxes, buying my own cheese, and showing up for Jury Duty.

Damn you Jan..Damn you straight to Hell!

199 Best poster at the Arizona demonstration:

Obama: Donde esta La Reforma?

Okey doke, there.  I guess that illegal/illegal abetter didn't follow the campaign when The Precedent admitted that he speaks no Spanish, right after he chided real Americans for not speaking other languages, which always helped Europeans get along so well ...

Where is James Polk when he's really needed?  Come back, James.

200 ATTA GIRL JAN.   FROM OHIO

201 Sorry, but fences aren't BS. Employer sanctions AND fences AND deportations are needed. Now THAT would be REAL comprehensive immigration reform.

Fences in a few locations in populated areas with proximity alarms and patrols would do dome good.  Fences by themselves in the middle of the desert are a freakin waste and do nothing.  So building a fence from San Diego to Brownsville, TX is pure stupid and a waste of money.

When a Poll says he is for a fence I can pretty much tell he is full of shit.  Also throwing out the NG without arming them is BS.

We don't need a fence if we started jailing the employers. The Mexicans would quit coming and the ones here would go home.

202

Fences by themselves in the middle of the desert are a freakin waste and do nothing.  So building a fence from San Diego to Brownsville, TX is pure stupid and a waste of money.

We might disagree with that.

203 And since Arnold still has his head up his ass, California is about to be inundated with what used to be "the illegal population" of Arizona.

204 Esto es muy injusto para los mexicanos ilegales, y maldito que América son pendejos.

205

 If I hear one more greedy, illegal hiring sonofabitch say that Americans won't do these jobs I'm gonna make the news.

And where are you going to find the Americans? This generation of TV, vids, Inteternet?

Good luck on that one....

206 Or that could be Internet.

207 Hey McCain! Are any of those $100k a year jobs picking lettuce still available? Take me with you when put in so I can apply too.

208

Jan Brewer = Sarah Palin - smokin' hot sexy.

She's about to get some Palin-sized media "attention", too.

 

209 Very proud of my gov for standing up for We the People.  Over 70% of Arizonans supported this new law.  How many people have to get murdered before the Federal Govt does it's fucking job? 

210

The sweeping measure will make it a crime under state law to be in the country illegally.

I've adjusted the vertical, I've adjusted the horizontal, and yet there's still something a little off with my universe.

 

 

211

And where are you going to find the Americans? This generation of TV, vids, Inteternet?

This is where slashing welfare comes in.

212 Look for Obama to launch an immigration money bomb with the fine print that any State with AZ like laws won't get any ObamaBucks. 

Can't let the little people (aka States) get out of control...

213

This is where slashing welfare comes in.

Good luck on that one. Unless you have raised kids to work hard, I'm guessing that forcing people to actually do some manual labor isn't going to go over very well.

214 Nice catch. I wish Fox would post the roundtable on line for the rest of us peons.

Posted by: Garbonzo the Garrulous at April 23, 2010 04:54 PM (zgd5N)

It is posted.  Every Wednesday, around 6:55, go to www foxnews dot com,  slash sronline to join in the fun.  You get to watch the show and see live-blogging on a split screen.  It usually goes to around 7:20 or 7:25.

Sick of not doing the right thing out of fear that doing the right thing will alienate some group or another.

Posted by: angler at April 23, 2010 05:30 PM (SwjAj)

+10

Also, to the other poster that said that that 70% approval vote in AZ wasn't all done by Anglos:  hear, hear!

215 And since Arnold still has his head up his ass, California is about to be inundated with what used to be "the illegal population" of Arizona.

They can take the $1.4 Billion+ bill with them too!  That's what AZ pays each year for illegal aliens!

216 If Americans are that lazy and stupid, HH, according to your logic we have already lost.

I do not accept the bullshit premise that Americans suck. Never.

217 Bret Baier and the "All-Star Panel" are going to talk about this next.  Stay tuned for wailing and gnashing of teeth.

218

If Americans are that lazy and stupid, HH, according to your logic we have already lost.

I do not accept the bullshit premise that Americans suck. Never.

Exactly, there was a time when tennyboppers could have a pretty good summer job in construction--$15 an hour, in the 1980's.

Today, wages are the same, but no teenyboppers. All aliens, mostly illegal.

219

If Americans are that lazy and stupid, HH, according to your logic we have already lost.

In a way, yes. Can you really think of some kid who starts washing dishes in a Restaurant and then moves up?

Hell, any kid want's to be some sort of computer expert, and never get off his/her ass.

And don't even mention farming...

220 Fences by themselves in the middle of the desert are a freakin waste and do nothing

Then why did the violence drop by 95% when the Israelis built theirs?  If you were one of those advocating for illegals, wouldn't you want your enemies squandering their credibility on a useless fence?  Yet they fight a fence harder than anything.  Why is that?

221 Go ArizonA! If Obaka wants to make illegal immigration reform a 2010 campaign issue on top of Spendulus, Health Care "Reform", and unemployment, with gas getting ready to hi $3 a gallon... He is welcome to it. The GOP needs to pick up another 12 seats anyway.

222 Then why did the violence drop by 95% when the Israelis built theirs?

Because their fence is in a populated area that is patrolled. It is not in the middle of the desert.

And with that I am gone tonight.

223

Go ArizonA! If Obaka wants to make illegal immigration reform a 2010 campaign issue on top of Spendulus, Health Care "Reform", and unemployment, with gas getting ready to hi $3 a gallon... He is welcome to it. The GOP needs to pick up another 12 seats anyway.

Oh but if we can just import more Mexicans and really really bend over and pander hard, we might get 40% of their vote!

224 "It builds mistrust between the illegal immigrant [sic] community and the police" -- Juan Williams showing that he doesn't understand that illegals have no right to be here.

Hey Juan, in the preamble to the Constitution,

"secure the blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity"

does not include illegals, who need to be deported any time the government comes into contact with them.  Illegals are costing "ourselves and our Posterity" the blessings of Liberty that our government is charged with securing for us.

225

Because their fence is in a populated area that is patrolled. It is not in the middle of the desert.

I understand that, Vic. I just brought up the Tohono O'Odom Indians example because apparently Border Patrol DID tighten up enforcement in Tuscon / Agua Prieta, Calexico / Mexicali, and Yuma / Gadsden. The result was to send the illegal smugglers right through their reservation, which was deemed "too remote" for illegals to cross. Well, maybe not.

226 91 Has any lawyer thought of creating a class action lawsuit against the federal government on behalf of all American citizens who have lost a loved one due to an illegal being in the country, via murder or drunk driving or some other means??

Posted by: JDW at April 23, 2010 04:59 PM (uw+0A)

good luck with that; when an illegal MURDERED a man and his two sons in San Francisco, the widow couldn't even sue the fucking city for their self-described 'sanctuary city' status.  Google 'Tony Bologna' or 'Daniella Bologna' for the whole disgusting story

227 Because their fence is in a populated area that is patrolled. It is not in the middle of the desert.

And with that I am gone tonight.

Sorry Vic left, because if he hadn't, I would ask him where it's easier to spot people trying to breach a wall, in the middle of a city, or in a remote, unpopulated area?

228

Posted by: the Butcher at April 23, 2010 06:49 PM (8g9qq)

Don't forget the illegals who were awarded a rancher's property because he held them at gunpoint when they trespassed on his land.  I can't find the article but here's an excerpt describing the result fo the suit:

A federal jury found Tuesday that a southern Arizona rancher didnÂ’t violate the civil rights of a group of illegal immigrants who claimed that he detained them at gunpoint in 2004.

The eight-member civil jury also found Roger Barnett wasnÂ’t liable on claims of battery and false imprisonment.

But the jury did find him liable on four claims of assault and four claims of infliction of emotional distress and ordered Barnett to pay $77,804 in damages — $60,000 of which were punitive.

Barnett declined to comment afterward, but one of his attorneys, David Hardy, said the plaintiffs lost on the bulk of their claims and that Barnett has a good basis for appeal on the two counts on which he lost.

-------------------------------------

It's hard to deal with a federal judiciary that is this batshit insane.

229 The GOP doesn't need the illegal Mexican vote, or any other illegal aliens' votes either. If they can't win with enough legit votes, imitating ACORN won't be any use. As for legal Mexicans et al, the conservative/tea party message ought to be as appealing to them as much as anyone else.

230 Oops, the award of the property was a different case, if I am remembering correctly.  I should have taken that part out.  My mistake.

231 I think they should have named the bill after the AZ rancher who was murdered.  Just saying ....

My neighbor is a Democrat and Mexican-American.  I just asked him about the law and he said, "I better carry my papers with me at all times."  Then he laughed and said, "Anything that protects my kids is A-OK with me."  We also talked about the billions the state spends each year on illegals. 

Phone # where you can thank Jan: 602-542-1318.

232 Absolutely brilliant move by the guv. Among other secondary consequences, this should completely eliminate the possibility of Arizona being invaded by anyone with an overtly terrorist profile, such as that bunch from the Islamofascist hotbed of urban-suburban Michigan now to be led by a boy named Sue (or is that a man named Suh? Ach...why compare?). And there's solid historical precedent behind this: Meacham v I Have a Dream -- which not at all incidentally resulted in the state being thoroughly inoculated from any and all Super Bowls for the full term of its application (only to brought to a bone chilling conclusion upon its being overturned under the New Pussification Program of the succeeding gubernatorial administration). We should also expect the benefits of marginal, if not mass, exodus from the state of those across the spectrum of labor and service workers. This should bring the benefit of a dramatically increased demand for workers in these areas, in turn higher wages and something in the nature of a surge to the Greater Phoenix boom trend over the decades since Senator Goldwater's remarkable tourism promotion campaign in the early 1960s. One can readily forecast a huge jump in competition for tee times at the hundreds of golf courses that lay next to if not actually inside the heart of Arizona's economy. Cheap at last ... cheap at last .... thank God Almighty, they're cheap at last.

233 "good luck with that; when an illegal MURDERED a man and his two sons in San Francisco, the widow couldn't even sue the fucking city for their self-described 'sanctuary city' status. Google 'Tony Bologna' or 'Daniella Bologna' for the whole disgusting story" I want everyone to know that that event happened within earshot of my house. That's right, I heard those shots. I know the widow. The punk that killed them was MS-13, you know, the harmless ones that only want to sell pot. For the record, not one policy of the city of San Francisco changed because of those murders. Not one damn policy.

234

Posted by: Shooter at April 23, 2010 07:14 PM (zfRju)

Oh you are good.

 

235 By the way, the author of the Sanctuary City statute for the City of San Francisco is Diane Feinstein, while she was mayor.

236 Good thing AZ has those awesome gun laws.


As in, AZ's Constitutional Carry law, which used to be known as Vermont carry.

Also signed into law by Gov. Brewer.

Damn, that woman is awesome.

237 Shooter --
that man named Suh kept a Texan at bay (Colt McCoy is still undrafted!) -- Big Red fans (me) are going to sorely miss him.  Michigan (Detroit) needs to treat him right!

238 And it took a woman to show what courage really is! Good going Governor. If I was from Arizona, you'd have my vote in the next election. How about for President??

239 And it took a woman to show what courage really is! 

Posted by: Gloria Blier at April 23, 2010 07:30 PM (5j9Fr)

There's been a lot of that going on the past few years.  Thank G-d for conservative women!

240 That's because as soon as a man displays anything even closely resembling an actual spine, the media piles on him, calls him a Nazi, blah, blah. Especially a white man.

241 Never thought she would sign it. Thought she would pussy out. She has more balls than any male in the GOP.

242

I'm going to say this again, and likely be smacked around again.

I'm not as pissed off at those that want a better existance,

i'm more pissed at Americans that Hire and benefit from slave wages/or political expediance. I would like to see an easier immigration system for those waiting in a Legal Path. Harsh legal consequences for Those Business's that are benefiting from using subversive methods to attain cheap labor, They Are The Americans that KNOW our laws and are shitting on them . That Includes Internation Unions, Labor, And stone and Electric, (for the Dem and Corporate Parties)

243

I want To see Our GVT Lean on Mexico's GVT to do right by their citizens...backcharge Mexico

Pay for the consequences of Criminal  or other activity other than breaking Immigration Laws, such as medical, welfare,

help those Citizens that follow the laws visas , green cards, to become leghal.

244   such as medical, welfare, sorry i mis-typed have Mexico Pay for all costs incurred.

245

If the Dems weren't such pantywaists about projecting American power, and so pro-Palestinian, the Kraut would still be writing speeches for them.  He's a progressive on most domestic matters.  He lines up with us on military matters, usually.  That's it.

Posted by: Les Grossman at April 23, 2010 05:01 PM (jat5l)

Bingo. Everything else he, as long as many of the national-security conservatives, does, is predicated on that priority.

We could be defending the great Socialist States of America and he'd still be focused on manning the outer wall.

246 Well, well. Looks like The White Party is serious about itself.

How about a law in, er, Nevada banning miscegenation?

White Power, assholes!

247 We could be defending the great Socialist States of America and he'd still be focused on manning the outer wall.

Actually, scratch that. They won't be manning the outer wall. They'll forget that minor detail, while they sortie out to do battle on the other side of the freaking world in part to avoid doing so.

248 If the Feds strike this down, the Guv should deploy the Az Natl. Gaurd to secure the Az Border.

249

@65: "Whoa!  Judge Nappy just told Cavuto that this would be a calamity for Brewer and AZ and that Hispanic voters would flee the GOP in droves."

All 1,000 of them or whatever?  Damn, when you add that to the three black voters the GOP lost over the assorted Michael Steele clusterfucks, things are looking bleak for the GOP in November.

250

Way to go people of AZ and Gov. Brewer.  I am so proud of my new home state.   I am in the process of moving down there this summer.  I know, hot as hell, but at least I get it over with right away.  This passage, along with the ability to carry without a permit makes me as giddy as a school girl on laughing gas.  And I am leaving the great tundra of Minnesota.  Just had my last @#$@$ winter.

 

251 #250 - which part of the word 'illegal' dont you understand?

252

John McCain emails to say, "It's a nice a start but personally I won't rest until every illegal immigrant is thrown out of this country or until the day after my GOP primary. Whichever comes first."

McLame really didn't say that, did he? You make joke Gringo!

253

why do republican women have bigger balls the their male counterparts?

*crickets*

254

@144: "This is a fuck up.  Will recount what Rove said at lunch tonight on ONT, but bottom line, we need Hispanic votes, 35% to win."

So the GOP should back Graham's amnesty bill to the hilt, then.

I get that the American voters have decided that the Constitution really *is* a suicide pact, but maybe we should at least stop and get our affairs in order, first. 

255 Rove paraphrased: "...but bottom line, we need Hispanic votes, 35% to win."

So let's import a voting demographic that, if legalized, votes 2:1 (at best considering they pretty much start as wards of the state when first entering) ... for the Democrats.

Great math there, Sparky. You and Bush's "compassionate conservatism" are why the nation is where it is. Rove is a political animal. He's also part of the problem.

256 The two most vehement anti-illegal immigration people I know, are a Central American legal immigrant couple (Costa Rica-Honduras background) whom I have known for many years. 

They feel that legal immigrants who took years, and played totally by the rules to gain their naturalization, are treated like second class citizens, while American politicians fall all over themselves like damn fools to roll out the red carpet for illegals.

They are quick to point out that many of our current illegals in the US are such reprobates and ne'er-do-wells that even their often destitute countries of origin don't want them.

The whole subject drives both of them completely around the bend, you should hear them cuss up a blue streak when the subject comes up. 

257 Revising 260 -- This couple considers themselves to be treated like second class citizens BY POLITICIANS.  They feel that American politicians talk about immigration, they mean illegals who are the favored class over legals.

258

@91 Has any lawyer thought of creating a class action lawsuit against the federal government on behalf of all American citizens who have lost a loved one due to an illegal being in the country, via murder or drunk driving or some other means??

Class-action wouldn't work unless the government agreed to be sued.  A Qui Tam (lawsuit brought by a private individual on behalf of the US, over some area of law that should be, but isn't, being enforced) action might work, though.  Probably not too hard to find someone in the government who would say that the Feds aren't enforcing the law.

259 JDW "She better get her talking points together and her delivery righted or Obama will make her look stupid and, by extension, her correct position on illegal immigration. Libs know so much is about show, even when they have less substance. Hey JDW, Jan Brewer doesn't have to sing in the boy's choir like Obama. His kind of smooth rhetoric is not very suspicious. Jan Brewer sounds like one of the toughest, hardest, fairest bitches I ever knew, my aunt. She is a coffee/cigarette smoker and just try to pull that butt out of anything but her cold dead hands. She is tough and sounds it. Jan is not an "American Idol" contestant and we love her. She represents the best of the American Wild West.

260

Even if the illegals head to CA there is nothing here for them.   We are imploding.   There is no money for the lefties to hand out free benes to Mexico's poor.

This is a rough analogy but it's true.   It's like a stray cat who comes to your door looking for food.   Feed it and he or she brings all the kitty friends over next time.   The ironic thing is that all those cats have homes and just found a sucker to feed them twice.

Stop feeding the strays and they go home.

261 I meant to say "is now very suspicious." Please forgive. Even though liberals don't, God does.

262

Have you people ever cosidered why the U.S. Gov. hasn't built a fence?

Face it. Without cheap labor, one whole hell of a lot of things don't get done.

That is the way it is.

Now do we change that or not?

263 261 Revising 260 -- This couple considers themselves to be treated like second class citizens BY POLITICIANS.  They feel that American politicians talk about immigration, they mean illegals who are the favored class over legals.

Posted by: Albus at April 23, 2010 09:08 PM (sZNYc)

why yes.   They are true Americans now and not really considered.  Hell think about it next to 20-30 million?

sad isn't it.

264

Have you people ever cosidered why the U.S. Gov. hasn't built a fence?

Face it. Without cheap labor, one whole hell of a lot of things don't get done.

Actually, look at any big city, along side the highways, and you will see hundreds of miles of walls, done at union wages and Fed DOT funding - they could have built twenty foot tall walls for the money that has been wasted on 'virtual fences'.

265 I can see November the turning worm from my house.

TEQUILA!

266 Ah so, if it wasn't the empty suit's idea, it was a bad idea. Is that how it works now? You realize, don't you, that Obama is as mad as a Hatter?

267 Nappytime going to DHS and looking a fool is the best thing that happened to Arizona. Let the Democrats make an issue of supporting murder, prostitution, drug and human trafficking and theft. These Mexican gangs make Wall Street look like a convent of nuns. This is the wrong issue to bring up with voters.

268 Obama isn't just insane. He is certifiable.

Then show us the certificate!

269 @ Arizona Uber Alles

The immigration laws are already on the books. Arizona just took it upon themselves to enforce laws the Feds were ignoring. Besides, you guys are the ones all hot about breeding licenses and population control. So, have at it!

270 This bill does not go far enough. The police should be empowered to stop people and question anyone that looks or illegal or foreign like. And if they don't cooperate or, in the officers view, don't act right, or seem, you know, illegal or foreign, then the officers should be authorized to conduct on the spot summary executions. Then the foreigners will go away, back where they belong. We have to take our country back people. C'mon. Let's rally around AZ and do them one better.

271 Even if the illegals head to CA there is nothing here for them.   We are imploding.   There is no money for the lefties to hand out free bennies to Mexico's poor.

Good. Let CA be an example and a warning to the rest of the nation. It serves them right, since they voted for all the free stuff and coddled law breakers.

272

"Then show us the certificate!" - Tattoo @ 8:37

 

Not bad, Tattoo. Not bad. And here we thought that you were too demure to be clever.

273 Yes, I am outrageously outraged about this immigration bill! But let's add a sterilant to drinking water in the barrios and Mexican staple foods like tacos and burritos. They'll never figure out why the anchor babies aren't coming.

274 Not bad, Tattoo. Not bad. And here we thought that you were too demure to be clever.

Why, thank you! I love your hash, btw. "ITz blow JOB!"

275 Damn sock.

276

Geezez, now we're sorry that we encouraged her. LOL

_{(Psssst, that's old news. It's as lame now as it was three months ago.)}

277 I don't know...  In no stretch of the imagination do I support illegal immigrants.  But the whole "Citizen! Show me your papers!" is a touch too European for my taste.

278 But the whole "Citizen! Show me your papers!" is a touch too European for my taste.

The whole point is that they're not citizens. And they're shooting farmers.

279 Obama isn't just insane. He is certifiable.

He is still hiding his birth certificate. But he gives a mean BLOW JOB!

280

(Yawn!) _{(Psssst, you should've quit while you were ..., well ..., at least mediocre.)}  LOL

281 Did somebody say BLOW JOB? I saw a big wide open mouth. Oh, you were "yawning." Uh huh.

282 REPOST:   260 Tattoo De Plane: "Ok, but how is Hayworth remotely, let alone relatively, conservative? It really does matter who it is, and as much as I dislike McCain, anyone but Hayworth --  or else you get a Democrat."

You don't know what you're talking about. You're starting to sound concerned. A bit too concerned. But let's forget the general, national trending Right and the acute, AZ state trending Right under the current political dynamic as a result of Obamanation. Let's just look at the record. For simplicity, I'm taking the American Conservative Union ratings as a metric since it is a pretty decent measure of "Rightness."

I made a table going as far back as I could until the data became intermittently available up until Hayworth left office. This is a record of his final 8-9 years. For relativity I included Tom Delay, the de facto historical leader of the Right and the GOP in the House, and Ron Paul, a semi-populist conservative/libertarian.

See http://www.acuratings.org/:

2006 --------- 2006 - 2005 - YOS - Life
Hayworth ----- 96 --- 100 --- 12 --- 97.56 -- 2nd most conservative Representative in AZ
DeLAY (TX) - 40 --- 88 --- 22 --- 92.88 -- * left mid-term, but votes not made not averaged
Paul (TX) ----- 76 --- 76 --- 16 --- 82.26

2005 --------- 2005 - 2004 - YOS - Life
Hayworth ----- 100 --- 96 --- 11 --- 98 -- 1st most conservative
DeLAY (TX) - 88 --- 100 --- 21 --- 95
Paul (TX) ----- 76 --- 78 --- 15 --- 83

2004 --------- 2004 - 2003 - YOS - Life
Hayworth ----- 96 --- 88 --- 10 --- 97 -- 2nd most conservative
DeLAY (TX) - 100 --- 92 --- 20 --- 96
Paul (TX) ----- 78 --- 71 --- 14 --- 83

2003 --------- 2003 - 2002 - YOS - Life
Hayworth ----- 83 --- 100 --- 9 --- 97 -- 5th out of 8
DeLAY (TX) - 88 --- 92 --- 19 --- 96
Paul (TX) ----- 75 --- 76 --- 13 --- 84

2002 --------- 2002 - 2001 - YOS - Life
Hayworth ----- 100 --- 100 --- 8 --- 99 -- 1st most conservative
DeLAY (TX) - 92 --- 100 --- 18 --- 96
Paul (TX) ----- 76 --- 70 --- 12 --- 84

2001 --------- 2001 - 2000 - YOS - Life
Hayworth ----- 100 --- 100 --- 7 --- 99 -- 1st most conservative
DeLAY (TX) - 100 --- 88 --- 17 --- 96
Paul (TX) ----- 70 --- 76 --- 11 --- 85

2000 --------- 2000 - 1999 - YOS - Life
Hayworth ----- 100 --- 100 --- 6 --- 99 -- 1st most conservative
DeLAY (TX) - 88 --- 92 --- 16 --- 96
Paul (TX) ----- 76 --- 92 --- 10 --- 87

1999 --------- 1999 - 1998 - YOS - Life
Hayworth ----- 100 --- 100 --- 5 --- 99 -- 1st most conservative, ACU "House Best & Brightest"
DeLAY (TX) - 92 --- 96 --- 15 --- 97
Paul (TX) ----- 92 --- 88 --- 9 --- 88

"YOS"  - Years of Service
"LIFE" – Lifetime score average

<sub>The American Conservative Union tracks a wide range of issues before Congress to determine which issues and votes serve as a dividing line to help separate those Members of the U.S. House and Senate who protect liberty as conservatives and those who are truly liberal.

As a result, the ACU Ratings of Congress has throughout its 38 Editions included a wide variety of issues covering votes on taxes, wasteful government spending, cultural issues, defense and foreign policy.

The votes selected in this edition of the ACU Ratings of Congress are not always considered the “most important” votes as defined by others, instead the votes selected are chosen to create a clear ideological distinction among those casting them.

These ratings have throughout the years become a go-to guide to determine whether an elected officialÂ’s philosophical rhetoric matches his or her record. ACUÂ’s purpose in this guide is to inform the public, in an unbiased way, on where individual members of Congress fall on the ideological spectrum.</sub>


So, Hayworth had virtually a 100% ACU rating except for one observed aberrant year and that 83% ain't bad. His yearly rating and accumulative lifetime rating trumped even DeLay, both of whom left Ron Paul in the dust. To get a "House Best & Brightest" award from the ACU means that the legislator received a 100% rating for the year; so, Hayworth "won" that most years he was in office. His last ACU lifetime rating was 97.56. That's hella good.

In summary Hayworth is a helluva conservative. I don't even need to look up McCain's record to know that Hayworth's stomps McCain silly. But by all means, look it up to confirm your doubts.

I'm even more inclined to back Hayworth now, so thanks for making me do some more homework.

Posted by: AnonymousDrivel at April 24, 2010 09:42 AM (swuwV)

 

Some days you eat the bear, and some days the bear eats you. This wasn't your day, Tattoo.

283 Obama isn't just insane. He is certifiable.

Then show us the certificate!

284

Um, I think Tattoo missed her plane. LOL

_{(But because she's a woman, I'm sure she'll have the last word. They never know when to shut up.)} LOL

285 "For relativity I included Tom Delay, the de facto historical leader of the Right and the GOP in the House, and Ron Paul, a semi-populist conservative/ libertarian."

Tom DeLay, the guy who lost his job owing to freebie trips across the Atlantic and the Pacific, casinos and illicit contributions. Glad you mentioned DeLay, cause he was tied up in the Abramoff scandal like Hayworth. I don't care if he got a 3000% ACU rating. He's a crook. Let's talk about that nut Ron Paul, too. Did he endorse John McCain after he predictably lost the GOP primaries? No. But here's my suspicion. His eager beaver tech guys working on his campaign fundraising figured out the ins and outs of online donations and went to work for the Obama campaign, turning off security settings and gaming the system. Ron Paul lets anarchy prevail with anything he oversees. Racist newsletters and all. Plus, he loves being a useful idiot for the left. Now Hayworth? Well, he won't make it that far.

286 Got a birth certificate for Obama? Then go choke on a dick.

287 "I hate women because they always know where things are." Voltaire.

288 I hate women, because they laugh when they see how little my pee pee is.

289 I'd like to see Obams have a beer summit with her, and the 12 million illegals he's so worried about.

290 Tattoo De Plane@295,

My selection of Delay and Paul was to select names most people would know. It's not an endorsement or critique of them - it's just a yardstick among peers and their documented voting record.

Now, would you like to refute the voting records? Which metric do you want to use instead? Also, is it productive to reintroduce McCain's Keating association? Of course not. Both McCain and Hayworth had ancillary associations and neither were prosecuted or convicted of committing a crime.

As far as DeLay or Paul, knock yourself out. I'm not voting or giving money to either. However, if it will help you release some tension to rail on them, I'm here to listen.

291 We're looking for someone named Tattoo. Is she around here anywhere?

292 Men in white coats (with a net) at April 24, 2010 11:49 AM (ITzbJ)

If the voices in your head are dressing like psychiatrists, maybe they're telling you to take your meds. Oh, and BLOW ME!

293 Now, would you like to refute the voting records?

You can refute Ron Paul's voting record all day. Everyone here knows he says no but means yes when he's bring home so much bacon. As for Tom DeLay, his record was refuted when campaign finance investigation led by Texas Travis County District Attorney Ronnie Earle led to his indictment in 2005.

Also, is it productive to reintroduce McCain's Keating association?

McCain was cleared by an ethics committee investigation. No small feat for a Republican. And he has kept his nose clean since.

If Hayworth's voting record wasn't good enough for the voters in his district when he lost his seat in the House of Representatives during a relatively calm year for the GOP, then why should I be moved by it to support his Senate bid?

294 Tattoo De Plane@303,

What's with the hard-on for discussing Ron Paul and DeLay? How many times do I need to restate that it's a relative metric based on voting record? And Ronnie Earle? The ham sandwich indicting hack? Are you kidding me? Anyway, Hayworth is more conservative than both and all three are more conservative than McCain (AZ, Lifetime 82%).

Tell you what - forget I even mentioned them. Let's go with Jeb Hensarling (TX, Lifetime 98.6%) and Kyl (AZ, Lifetime 96.8%). Hayworth is right in the middle at 97.6%. Meanwhile, McCain's voting record has become less conservative while his rhetoric, not coincidentally, becomes more conservative. Nevermind the intentions of his vote. Anyone can say, "Well, I had good intentions." Name a politician who publicly runs on bad ones? Instead, ask yourself, "What were the consequences left in the wake?"


"If Hayworth's voting record wasn't good enough for the voters in his district when he lost his seat in the House of Representatives during a relatively calm year for the GOP, then why should I be moved by it to support his Senate bid?"

Because that really wasn't a "relatively calm year." The Democrats had political momentum. This year is a relatively calm year... for a conservative. The GOP stands to benefit and the more conservative, the better. Now if you can identify the candidate that is in the GOP primary that deserves the vote more than McCain or Hayworth, then I'm all ears and have a check ready to go. Alas, that person doesn't exist, so we go with what we've got: Column Hayworth or Column McCain. Hayworth, with five consecutive ACU ratings of 100% (which is a threshold Hensarling only now just met) versus McCain. This is not rocket science no matter how many times you bring up DeLay and Paul.

295 What's with the hard-on for discussing Ron Paul and DeLay?

You're the one who proposed they're the yardstick by which conservatives should be measured.

And Ronnie Earle? The ham sandwich indicting hack? Are you kidding me?

You seem to disagree that Tom DeLay was a crook and now want to talk about those who brought up successful criminal charges against him.

Nevermind the intentions of his vote.

I am minding what he voted on. And it is my opinion that voting to reform our immigration system was nobler than voting to stuff his pockets, selling out his constituents in the process. Maybe the voters in AZ will show they feel McCain doesn't represent them in the upcoming primary, but they have already shown how they feel about Hayworth, who is a loudmouth kook and is only getting support now because McCain is vulnerable after 2008.

296 This year is a relatively calm year... for a conservative.

No, it is not. Hayworth lost his seat in 2006, right after Bush was reelected in 2004. Yes, there were considerable losses to the Republican party during the midterms, but Hayworth was part of the problem. The big issues were  spending, corruption and the war. We can all admit Republicans squandered a majority while they were in power.

Hayworth needs to make the case that, at a time when Tea Party activists and conservatives and Republican party regulars are being asked to raise tens of millions of dollars (especially minus leadership from the RNC and NRSC) to win Senate seats in Delaware, Maryland, North Dakota and Massachusetts (for crying out loud!) why should they be asked to split up their time, energy and money to replace a perfectly good, in working condition Republican who consistently votes against tax increases and for spending restraint... for someone who lost their House seat?

297 I think the only bad thing is the Arizona Republican Party might actually get more people of Mexican heritage voting Democratic due to this law. Just like how Proposition 187 led to a decline in Latinos voting for the Republican Party in California. Both laws are a good idea. However the application of the laws was the bad point.

298 "You're the one who proposed they're the yardstick by which conservatives should be measured."

Now you're just being obtuse. OK, OK. Let's make it even simpler. DeLay sucks. Paul sucks. Kyl sucks. [insert dozens of names here] suck. Hayworth sucks. Guess what... they all suck less than McCain. Here's an out and I asked for it already: name your metric. Which comprehensively reviewing, conservative advocacy group would you like to review? I picked the ACU because I'm aware of it. Fine. You don't trust it? Name another. Here's a source at PajamasMedia (McCain vs. Hayworth: No Contest for Conservatives) that provides a good summary.


"You seem to disagree that Tom DeLay was a crook and now want to talk about those who brought up successful criminal charges against him."

I don't want to talk about it. You do. So: Brought up criminal charges != guilty. No successful criminal charges == not guilty == not a crook. The multiple indictments by Earle have been either tossed or no billed and Earle has since retired as DA. And this all has nothing to do with Hayworth's voting record.


"I am minding what he voted on. And it is my opinion that voting to reform our immigration system was nobler than voting to stuff his pockets, selling out his constituents in the process."

Noble had nothing to do with it. He was Hispandering. He was selling out the vast majority of his constituents who were counting on him to represent them, to relieve their tax burden, to enforce the law, to protect their families, and to be fair to legal residents without rewarding lawbreakers. Just like the nobility in passing TARP loaded with earmarks, "good intentions" started us down this deathly path -- all this noble gesturing damaging the GOP. Nonetheless, as upsetting as earmarks are, and they are because it's real money and a bad symbol, it's a trivial cost compared to the expanded programs and bailout money that has been passed. These are expansions McCain approved.


"...Hayworth, who is a loudmouth kook and is only getting support now because McCain is vulnerable after 2008."

Do you notice the problem here? Ahem: "because McCain is vulnerable after 2008." I agree (for this reason and more), which is why a different horse is needed. But they don't have another different horse. They have Hayworth, the conservative. And he sucks less than the incumbent, less the non-existent GOP primary competition, and less than the Democrat of any pedigree.

299 "Guess what... they all suck less than McCain."

No. DeLay and Hayworth lost office for good reason. Paul lost a primary to McCain for good reason. Saying any of them suck less than McCain's absurd.

"I agree (for this reason and more), which is why a different horse is needed. But they don't have another different horse."

Then tough titties. Elections cost money and time, and Hayworth has not sufficiently explained why he should replace McCain when he lost his House seat in 2006. It's a fair question. And calling himself conservative makes as little sense in his case as making an issue of horse marriage.

300 "Saying any of them suck less than McCain's absurd."

I said they all, not any, suck less than McCain. But I'll be generous. McCain and Paul suck about the same... technically. It's within the MOE.


"Then tough titties. Elections cost money and time, and Hayworth has not sufficiently explained why he should replace McCain when he lost his House seat in 2006."

So what are you saying to the AZ voters? Tough titties that they have only McCain and Hayworth? I'm not following you here.

However, here's Hayworth's campaign announcement. I'd say he's running after a loss just like McCain is running after a loss. It's not a sin to lose and to try again. It turns out that Hayworth's conservatism is in more of an ascendancy than McCain's, so Hayworth's timing for political office is better.


"And calling himself conservative makes as little sense in his case as making an issue of horse marriage."

Were it only Hayworth calling himself "conservative," you'd be right. The fact is that every collective conservative group tags him as conservative and, at a minimum, more conservative than McCain. Refuse as you try, you must accept that inconvenient truth. He certainly has more right to the moniker than McCain, and ultimately, it's this relativism that differentiates the candidates.

301 "McCain and Paul suck about the same... technically."

Not even remotely. Very few politicians would have had the courage to stand up for the surge, even against the President, like John McCain did, and we were very lucky to have such a courageous man. You can be cynical about the good intentions of politicians, but McCain has been right on the occasions when the most was at stake. I would even credit some of the GOP's recent success with independents to him. I'll say it again, too; the 52% needs their nose rubbed in how big a mistake they made in 2008. McCain helps the party while he is in the Senate, because he has led a distinguished career and stood for reduced spending. Make all the excuses for pork you like, but it's largely to blame for our current deficits. 

On my top 5 issues, McCain has done a fine job. believes in lower taxes, less pork a strong military, less abortion, no national healthcare. "It's not a sin to lose and to try again." I've given my opinion, but this is a decision that will be made by AZ voters. They have already shown what they think of Hayworth. And it is also true that you vote for the most conservative candidate you have. With Hayworth's easy relationship with corruption, which soured his constituents with him, I see McCain as the conservative.

302 "You can be cynical about the good intentions of politicians, but McCain has been right on the occasions when the most was at stake."

I wholeheartedly disagree with this. Sometime he's right. Sometimes he's wrong. And sometimes he's very, very wrong... even especially on occasions when "the most" was at stake. I'm cynical of every politician. All that matters is the degree. Furthermore, McCain isn't standing for reduced spending when the government programs get by with his signature and authorship. In fact he hurt the GOP, perhaps fatally in the Fall of '08, when he went with all the bailout money during the election because other GOP fence-straddlers felt they had to back McCain as the Presidential candidate. Appearances of unity, you see. The party of "No" was the party of "Yes, more, and faster, please."

Furthermore, I made no excuse for pork, so don't twist my words. Pork is bad. I said so. And I agree. You want to know what's much worse? Entitlement spending and unending expanse of Federal programs. It turns out that "pork" is a mere tick on an elephant. Guess which avenue would be economically more sound and the one McCain should've been taking for the past generation? Is he better than the Democrats on spending? Sure, I guess -- and what a low bar that is -- except when another bill mandating federal oversight and intervention comes along, and then he becomes part of the problem. He slow boils the frog as opposed to yanking the poor critter out.


"With Hayworth's easy relationship with corruption, which soured his constituents with him, I see McCain as the conservative."

Wow. "Easy relationship, huh?" Then I guess McCain would know all about that, too. We'll have to part ways, then. I see both men as flawed - as all men are - while using the judgment of many others who analyze this stuff for a living to buttress my assessment of the "conservative." As far as the opinion of voters, they're trending Hayworth; so, it appears they're rediscovering Hayworth and liking him more and more and, yes, showing what they think.

303

Pep at #231- "ask him where it's easier to spot people trying to breach a wall, in the middle of a city, or in a remote, unpopulated area?"  --  It's easiest to spot them where you are looking for them.  Obstacles are not obstacles unless covered by observation and fires.  Any obstacle can be breached or bypassed if you have enough time. 

IMHO, the 'virtual fence' give the observation, but not the obstacle - you know where they are crossing, but can't get to them before they get through.  A fence with no patrols or sentries slows people down, but they get through eventually.   Need the combination of an obstacle with observation and response - slow them down, hold them in place while you come and get them.     

304 Hurry up and move to the neighboring states illegals so their polititians have to do the same thing. And I will be moving to Arizona as you're moving out.

305 Thanks for the info, nice post!

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