1

Christie/Rubio 2012

Christie/Ryan 2012

 

Unfortunately all 3 need a few more years.

2 Since the bill IS (and has always been) paid for, what is the Republican reason for opposing it now?

3 Okay, but wasn't this already done?  I'm pretty sure this was already done.

I admire the 9/11 First Responders.  I don't know that I could ever have done what they did that day.  If they are dying at a quicker rate because of chemical fumes inhaled on that terrible day, that is a tragedy.

But how much will it cost, and how will it be paid for?  I don't believe those are unreasonable questions to ask.

As for Democrats wanting to raise taxes to pay for this: is it time to get out (once again) the chart that shows that we're not going to get much, if any, more than about 19% of GDP no matter what the tax rate is?  (And, for that matter, I found one at the Dept of Treasury site a couple of weeks ago which actually suggests that 19% is high: 17% is a much more reasonable median and mean (average) amount to expect).

4
"I believe itÂ’s the responsible and humane thing to do," the governor said.

I really don't like hearing this shit from governors, presidents, and congressman.

I don't want it as a preface to going to war or for creating a new entitlement.

5
Posted by: JEA

STFU, duncecocksucker

6 Unfortunately all 3 need a few more years. Posted by: CAC at December 22, 2010 11:47 AM Agreed. I know that hardly anyone in our history has jumped from legislator (either Senator or Rep) to the Presidency, but how often do Governors who have not yet finished their first term jumped to the Presidency?

7

Unfortunately all 3 need a few more years.

Posted by: CAC at December 22, 2010 11:47 AM

Unfortunately, we don't have "a few more years" to let them get ramped up.

Having been saddled with an incompetent, America-hating domestic terrorist as president -- only his laziness has prevented even greater disasters -- we have to put someone in office who may be short of as much experience as we'd like.

I'm not sure who should be president now. It simply shouldn't be the Traitor-in-Chief.

8 If he can get his 2nd ammendment issues fixed, I could stomach a Christie run.

9 Posted by: JEA at December 22, 2010 11:48 AM (DPvCq)

I don't think the new one is "paid for" at all.

There's also the little piece where (once again) San Fran Nan, and Dingy Harry want to cut off any debate (and, therefore, any chance actually to study the full contents of the bill) early and force it through the Lame Duck session.

If it's good legislation, it'll be approved by the new congress- with plenty of time to read the bill and figure out what's in it.  The only reasons to force this now are a) they've filled it with other Liberal Wishlist items and/or b) to try to make the Republicans look bad.

10 Desperate times call for awesome, "unseasoned" fat men, IMNHO.

11 If only we had spent a trillion dollars trying to "jumpstart" the economy, some of it could have been directed to something like this.

12

 

the Democrat answer to everything is RAISE JOB KILLING TAXES.

  In their ongoing shakedown of the American people.

 

13

What the heck is this bill anyway? Has there been any proof hat certain people are being denied services, or that their current benefits are inadequate to the task? If so, then Federal responders should be seen to by the Federal government. If we're talking about state workers, then the state of New York should act.

 

Before anyone else bitches: Pigford. How many other Federal handout deals should be be doing this year?

14 8 If he can get his 2nd ammendment issues fixed, I could stomach a Christie run.

Posted by: garrett at December 22, 2010 11:53 AM (3d6oP)

You mean like how he pardoned that guy entrapped by Jersey's inane gun laws?

15 Posted by: Soothsayer at December 22, 2010 11:51 AM (uFokq)

Indeed, and I'd have to look at the actual legislation.  I'm sure the current form is full of crap it doesn't need, but it doesn't seem beyond the bounds of Federal Responsibility to pay for increased medical costs for people who provided a specific National Service which is now making them sick.

That, of course, presumes that it's really the 9/11 stuff which is making them sick, and I don't know whether or not that's true, either.

If it were just a blanket payment to all FDNY/NYPD officers regardless of their first responder status on 9/11, I'd say it's complete bunk.  My understanding is that this is fairly specifically targeted, however.

16 @13--They are mainly NYPD and NYFD. Also some iron workers.

17

I realize thtat this is dead as a doornail but, did we pass a freaking budget or CR that will at least get us through to the next Congress?

 

If not, then why are any Republicans entertaining this? What happened to the social issues truce and focus on the budget shit?

18

You mean like how he pardoned that guy entrapped by Jersey's inane gun laws?

Posted by: Quilly Mammoth at December 22, 2010 11:55 AM (uD+PB)

He did not Pardon him... he commuted his sentence to time served...

WAY different thing.

19
The NYFD INSISTED on being at the site after 9/11.

And now they want to be paid.

I'm disgusted.

20 Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) at December 22, 2010 11:51 AM

My problem with all this is that I simply don't know what "benefits" the 9/11 responders are getting now, and what they really need as of now.

Funding is secondary. There are plenty of government programs that could be cut to pay for legitimate needs  They should be cut anyway.

If the Repubs are opposing this bill for partisan reasons, shame on them. Wouldn't surprise me, I'm sad to say.

But if this is yet another Dem giveaway that won't help those it purports to help, that would surprise me much less.

21 2 Since the bill IS (and has always been) paid for, what is the Republican reason for opposing it now?

Posted by: JEA at December 22, 2010 11:48 AM (DPvCq)

really? 14 fucking trillion dollars in debt, and you say it's been paid for? fuck off you fucking FiftyTwo Percenter.

22 I gotta go against the Republicans on this. These people did something unprecedented (yes Obama, unlike you) and deserve to be cared for in their time of need.

23

You mean like how he pardoned that guy entrapped by Jersey's inane gun laws?

One action will not save his record on this.  

 It is a good start, but he's still a NE Republican and they tend to be soft on the 2nd Ammendment.

24 These people did something unprecedented (yes Obama, unlike you) and deserve to be cared for in their time of need.

No matter what the cost and details, right?

25
Now they're victims!

Meanwhile...

we're so over 9/11 and so PC that we don't even direct our anger to the radical muslim animals who caused the disaster.

Who are we angry at? Why, the Republicans and the rich, of course!

26 TYPICAL REPUBLICAN'T WOMYN!!!

27

He did not Pardon him... he commuted his sentence to time served...WAY different thing. Posted by: Romeo13 at December 22, 2010 11:58 AM

Didn't the dude's lawyers ask for a commutation and not a pardon?

If Big Chris did what they asked for, it's a non-issue.

28
Those heroic firemen digging through the rubble...

and stealing booty.

They were pocketing so much shit from Ground Zero, it was disgusting. And when they were caught they were indignant.

Disgusting.

29 28 TYPICAL REPUBLICAN'T WOMYN!!!

Posted by: KayInMaine at December 22, 2010 12:02 PM (utvDQ)

Kay how many times have we asked you to not post pics of yourself here before lunch?

30 No matter what the cost and details, right?

Posted by: VJay at December 22, 2010 12:01 PM (gQ+XA)

No matter what the cost, yes. The details do matter though so we don't inadvertantly create another Pigford. The government has wasted so much money up to this point, a legitimate problem should not be ignored.

31 Posted by: Blue Hen at December 22, 2010 11:57 AM (R2fpr)

I thought CR had already passed.
Not to much fan-fare, obviously, as that would harm the media story that Pres. BOHICA is suddenly some awesomely-awesome politico who can force his agenda through whenever he wants.

Posted by: MrScribbler© at December 22, 2010 11:58 AM (Ulu3i)

I'm right on board with you: I really want more information (or, at least, more data) before I make a decision on this.  That makes my biggest problem with it the speed with which it is being addressed.

I'm really beginning to get worried that the new "business as usual" is going to become:
1) Agree to provisions behind closed doors (or some other "unofficial" way)
2) Have staffers write bill to meet agreed-upon provisions
3) Pass bill before American public can get up-in-arms.

Don't forget, it wasn't the Democrats who got schooled by the American public- they got what they wanted anyway.  It was the Republicans with Amnesty (twice, even).  I'm afraid the Establishment Republicans and Democrats (who far outnumber the Tea Party types) will join up to do just this.

32

Didn't the dude's lawyers ask for a commutation and not a pardon?

If Big Chris did what they asked for, it's a non-issue.

Posted by: MrScribbler© at December 22, 2010 12:02 PM (Ulu3i)

he owned his guns legally. I would have pardoned him outright. As much as I love the fat man, his 2nd amendment-fu needs a lot of work.

33 2 Since the bill IS (and has always been) paid for, what is the Republican reason for opposing it now?

I have one simple question for you.  Are you saying that everything else in the Federal budget is more important than this?  If not, why not cut that program, and use the money to fund this bill?  If you can't name anything, then you just want more spending and don't really care about first providers at all. 

34
Furthermore, as far as defenses go, this is some weak ass shit.

35 what exactly was spent on first responders up till now? I heard an amount in the billion of dollars. How was that not enough? If we send several more billions dollars, how much is that going to work out to each responder (and will that really be the end of it?).

36 Wait a minute- how many people are we talking about here. Maybe a thousand? They all got cripplingly sick? Assuming they all did, the Congress should be able to fund something with the money under their couch cushions, no? This is a giant scam by democrats and typical dupe Republicans .

37 To govern is to set priorities.  Unless you think the budget is infinite.

38

I'm with VJay, again. This bill extends healthcare coverage--for life--for 50,000 "rescue workers". I was there. No way were there 50k on that pile. No freakin' way.

It's some kind of bailout/handout to NYC, just like Pigford only with a metro angle. Enough being for shit because it sounds like something you should be for.

And let's not forget there were guys literally fighting to get at that pile. Nobody made them and everybody knew there were risks. You want to be a hero then act like one.

39

I do think we owe the responders something above and beyond. I think that is fair, however, if this bill is filled with pork, then who is playing politics with patriotism really?

 

Also, like every government give away, get ready for the number of 9/11 "responders" to sky rocket. 

40
Everyone forgets that President Bush gave those cocksuckers in New York state TWENTY BILLION DOLLARS right after 9/11.

And they squandered it! It was gone in a couple of years.

41 Those heroic firemen digging through the rubble...

and stealing booty.

They were pocketing so much shit from Ground Zero, it was disgusting. And when they were caught they were indignant.

Disgusting.

Posted by: Soothsayer

 

What? Please cite examples. This one is serious.

42 There are potentially 71000 first responder claims. The non volunteers have access to workers Compensation. Having handled nyfd comp claims in the past, I would not just readily accept their claim of being disabled.

43 Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) at December 22, 2010 12:05 PM

That's the nut of the problem.

Never mind any "messages" sent by the last election. I worry that the new Congress will continue the the tradition of passing bills and spending grotesque sums based on "optics," collegiality and partisanship.

If so, it won't matter if the public gets "up in arms" or not. Unless we do it literally.

44

i call bullshit on this bill

why do i, a taxpayer in hawaii, have to pay a dime for them?

they have insurance, make them use it

45 I wanted to plant Okra there, but the Man wouldn't let me!

46 "What do you mean I'm overdrawn?  I still have checks left in the checkbook."

47 The voters tried to vote down all the spending? Fuck you, pay me. Country got hit by lightning, huh? Fuck you, pay me. No money left in the coffers? Fuck you, pay me.

48 Union bailout, nothing more nor less. Why during the lame duck? So something else isn't cut, because the GOP would have the ability to defund public broadcasting, say, to pay for it. Hell, I'll take that deal right now.

49

how about all the survivors on the uss cole attack receive 25 million for their permanent mental stress?

same thing

50 If this bill passes, I guarantee that next we will see bills to compensate people who live in the area who claim they have been exposed to the same shit that the rescue workers were. I have tremendous respect for the responders and they acted heroically but that is their job. This is what they signed up for, running into burning building and exposing themselves to all sorts of dangers. There is still great debate as to whether or not there is any link between health issues of a few responders and 9/11 yet we are going to rush to give them billions of dollars? The donks have been playing us for suckers this whole lame duck session and jamming shit down our throats because they know most of this shit would never pass next session. I'm sick of being called a bigot or greedy because I don't support them blackmailing me out of my money.

51 There was reference in New York magazine about how some of the NYFD guys were  killed under the WTC when it fell as they were... rescuing... merchandise. I never heard anything more than that.

Christie + the unObama

52

Unfortunately all 3 need a few more years.

Posted by: CAC at December 22, 2010 11:47 AM (lV4Fs)

I'm just not able to buy into this anymore.  Barky sure has accomplished quite a bit for someone as inexperienced and incompetent as he is.  Presidentin' just isn't a job that requires unparalleled experience or intellect.  It requires hard work, a solid backbone, and if it's your your guy - the right views. 

You want more time for them to cook to be able to handle the media, or to "not" gaffe?  This is as arbitrary as it is unrealistic.  Experienced politicians gaffe all the time and the media is going to try to fuck over any Repub it can however it can. 

Name recognition is the only issue, but the media controls that too (if we let them).  The three guys mentioned - Rubio, Ryan, and Christie should be seriously considered and vetted based on their positions and not some meaningless watermark of experience that Barky blew out of the water two years ago.

53 Palin/Christie 2012.  Christie would handle yelling at schoolteachers, Palin would handle everything else.

54 oops- Christie = unObama

55 I thought Kay in Maine was eaten by a bear.  I was misinformed.

Too bad.

56
I can only find one story, Bloo Hen.

But I recollect a story from 2002 about the NYFD getting pissed off at the NYPD because the cops at the site started complaining about some of the firemen bringing home souvenirs and shit.

A lot of Safes were in the rubble...shit like that.
============================================

NEW YORK (AP) -- A retired firefighter accused of stealing a wedding photo, a smashed fire department radio and other items from the shambles of ground zero ``came to help'' in the post-Sept. 11 cleanup but instead became a souvenir hunter, a prosecutor said Tuesday.

Samuel Brandon collected items that had ``far greater personal and emotional value to their owners'' and ``bragged to anyone who would listen,'' prosecutor Judy Salwen said at the opening of Brandon's trial in Manhattan criminal court.

Defense attorney Ron Kliegerman said the items gathered by Brandon were essentially worthless and that the theft charges were based on ``an appeal to people's emotions'' rather than solid evidence.

Brandon, 61, who retired from the fire department in 1984, is charged with 11 misdemeanors, each punishable by a year in jail, for allegedly taking artifacts while volunteering in the cleanup at the World Trade Center site in 2002.

Among other items, he kept a damaged walkie-talkie of the type used by firefighters, seven ID cards _ two belonging to people killed in the terrorist attack _ and a photo of an unidentified couple at their wedding, authorities contend.

57

Speaking of the 9/11 bill

Tentative Deal Reached - Cost Cut

58 IIRC this bill was brought up a after the R's had vowed to oppose any legislation until settling the tax rate expiration issue.  So of course the D's responded by forcing them to go on record voting against all sorts of special interest groups, including the 9/11 first responders.

Which is to say that the D's are assholes, this vote doesn't really mean very much, IMO, and, like Christie, I expect the next congress will want to do what it can and what makes sense for these people.  I don't know that they are entitled to a blank check but I'm pretty sure it's not a winning argument to call the 9/11 first responders names.

59 8 If he can get his 2nd ammendment issues fixed, I could stomach a Christie run

Size-ist! 

;-) 

60 The party that gives away the most free shit is that party that will ultimately win. 

61

What? Please cite examples. This one is serious.

Posted by: Blue Hen at December 22, 2010 12:10 PM (R2fpr)

Like any disaster site, there's a fair bit of looting. I remember there were check points along Manhattan at certain main streets. I lived below 14th, and that was hard to cross without proof of address. Canal was even tougher. But a friend of mine who lived down there saw a man dressed as an EMT caught trying to smuggle out a human arm. There were some graverobbers, then the mobbed up sanitation department was getting everything they could.

62 Meh.  I can't get all outraged by this.

I can. That's the kind of shit that turns up on Antique's Road Show, and it should have been returned to the victims' families.

63 I don't begrudge the 9/11 first responders their due, but what about all the other first responders across the country that have health problems? 

64 The Derb doesn't like the bill: Radio Derb

"The James Zadroga Act is a trial lawyer's scam, just like the Pigford rackets. Oh, would you like to know how many people will get payouts from the James Zadroga Act? Answer: at least 71,000. You didn't know there were that many first responders, did you?"

65

This whole thing was bullshit, pure and simple.  The firemen and cops that showed up at the Towers were doing their JOBS.  They are entitled to care stemming from the injuries that can be determined to have stemmed from doing those jobs and nothing more.  Handing out our money at the Federal level to do it is bullshit.  If anyone owes them additional funds it is NEW YORK CITY and no one else.  Let them fork over all that free money.

 

Based upon this nonsense, I would seriously advise each and every Vietnam war veteran who has any form or type of illness resulting from agent Orange to tell the government they want a buttload of money for their injuries and illnesses.  They have as much right to pull this crap as the New Yorkers are getting away with. 

66

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