1  But they will be receiving some truly obscene pensions.

2 There is so much disgusting greed and lack of accountability at the town and county level.  This is where, perhaps the Tea Party Movement may be able to do the most. 

Here in New York, The People (or at least too many people) seem to think they are too important (or too busy) to care about local, or even state politics.  This must change before everyone is forced to move away (because it's so frackin expensive here!)

3 Why resign? Why not just take a ginormous pay cut?

4 That means an $800,000 a year position is open. Where do I apply, or do they do it via a raffle?

5 What we need is a database.

6 This warms the cockles of my black little heart.

7 Is there any case where the salary of a public official is kept confidential?

8 Why resign?

Might have something to do with three lamp posts being fitted out with ropes by the angry mobs.

9
Oh, I suppose I can get them some sort of czar job.

10 JEM is right.  The reason they aren't taking a pay cut is because your pension in CA is based on your last year's salary.  So they'll be getting craploads of money.

11 8 Why resign?

Might have something to do with three lamp posts being fitted out with ropes by the angry mobs.

Posted by: Purple Avenger at July 24, 2010 12:17 AM (gEomt)

I wish!

That is a good question, why resign. I'd make them fire me.

12 Don't start sucking each others dicks just yet. Take a look at their pensions, you moron.

13 O/T:  I feel sorry for the Zero Hedge guy....he left an open blog and he's going to come back to a lot of posts like this:  "Not to worry my fellow poster, soon all lies will be uncovered, all manipulations proofed, and the bright light if equality among peoples of the earth will come true. A fraternity among all workers will reign, and the imperialistic evils that invaded Iraq, Afghanistan, South Korea, etc, will be crushed to their bones. Lenin's dream will become real, once again, but this time we have learnt how to beat capitalism: it's as simple as let them collapse..."

14 Hell, I'd resign too without a pension if I got that 800k salary for just one year.  I could make that last the rest of my life.

15 Yeah, the people who had them resign, keeping their pensions, should be fired.  You want to know why the state is in shambles.  Well, if someone retires with a $600K pension, then someone else is hired, even at $300,000, then they retire a couple years later - sooner or later, that one job is costing the state Tens of Millions of dollars in pensions for people no longer holding that position.

16

Also the councilmen are getting paid $100k for their part time jobs.

I mentioned in the ONT a shcool superintendent, in a district with 135 students in Washinton state I think, is pulling down $195K annually.

F--king Government thieves.

17 I'm guessing the August and Sept dates might just happen to correspond to another year of pension bump.

18 I heard they resigned and gave up their pensions.  If this is the same city, one of the guys who resigned was the $400K+ Fat drunken sheriff, who was arrested for blowing 3 times the legal limit while driving.

19 Batchelor had John Fund on and he is saying Van Jones gave the netroots' keynote and said Shirley is the rosa parks of today.  He said Van Jones is very happy he is getting all kinds of awards and bringing down big bucks for speaking engagements.  Of course fund said it to Batchelor in an almost aghast way.

I guess Glenn Beck brings good luck.

20 Good Job Ace.

21 Fund was asked by Batchelor if mrs clinton might show up to speak to them and he said "if she did I suspect that she would be referred to by her new private nickname:  hillary "I told you so" clinton"

22 I'm trying to find a common thread on their website:

http://tinyurl.com/25b2fvg

23 I guess this means the lease on my city-supplied Lambo won't be renewed.

24

 I'm trying to find a common thread on their website:

http://tinyurl.com/25b2fvg

Vice Mayor Theresa Jocobo.  Right job title

25

 RarestRX at July 24, 2010 12:32 AM

I can't quite put my finger on it either, but now I have a craving for Taco Bell.

26 http://tinyurl.com/35fvtla

27 We do need a public website and database. I understand our Senator Harkin's staff is paid exceptionally well, especially when compared with Iowa wages (and all the perks, travel, family benefits, etc. add up too). I'm ready to start calling them and asking them to openly disclose. Appropriate and reasonable to expect, given they live off of money they took from each of us. Accountability is what it's all about.

28

It's just one more racist teabagger attack on workers who provide vital public services.

29 14 Hell, I'd resign too without a pension if I got that 800k salary for just one year.  I could make that last the rest of my life.

Posted by: Burn the Witch at July 24, 2010 12:23 AM (fLHQe)

Uhmmm ....tax guys will get about half. Unless you don't plan on living a long time or like trailer parks/campgrounds a lot, $400 grand will carry you maybe 15 years without putting it at risk.

30 22 I'm trying to find a common thread on their website:

http://tinyurl.com/25b2fvg

Posted by: RarestRX at July 24, 2010 12:32 AM (rmNST)

I looked and looked at the web site and danged if I could find a common thread either!

31 OMG, they are so racist.  They fired people with Italian surnames!

32 26 http://tinyurl.com/35fvtla

Posted by: curious at July 24, 2010 12:42 AM (p302b)

You'll notice that the City Council is all patting-themselves-on-the-back about getting rid of those jackals.....say, who approved that compensation in the first place?

33 A lot of times when you find gluttonous overpaid public servants you find them robbing the place via credit card, padded hotel/ meal reimbursements, petty cash fund looting.... I'd be looking hard at that if I lived there.

34 Defined-Benefit pension plans are a moral hazard, plain and simple. It's only a question of when they'll explode.

35 are you allowed in the town if your name is smith or jones? 

36

The average compensation of public workers is DOUBLE that of private sector workers doing the same job (i.e., school teacher, secretary, accountant, etc.).  And that's only the pay and real-time benefits, that does not include the defined benefit pension, which would make public worker compensation more like TRIPLE that of a private sector employee.

To use the lefties favorite phrase, this is not sustainable.

 

37

Let a million defenestrations bloom!!!!

I want so many crooked bureaucrats, drones and apparatchiks to fall that it changes weather patterns!!!

38 All three will apply for unemployment benefits and a disability retirement from SS.

39 36

The average compensation of public workers is DOUBLE that of private sector workers doing the same job (i.e., school teacher, secretary, accountant, etc.).  And that's only the pay and real-time benefits, that does not include the defined benefit pension, which would make public worker compensation more like TRIPLE that of a private sector employee.

To use the lefties favorite phrase, this is not sustainable.

Posted by: Boots at July 24, 2010 01:13 AM (06JTY)

It used to be that if you opted for a public job, you gave up the sky high salaries in exchange for job security.  That was the trade-off in my Dad's day. 

40 Why shouldn't they resign?  They all get FAT retirements from the California Pension system. Robert Rizzo stands to get $650,000 per year from California.

Talk about a system being railroaded by the workers.

Can anyone site a private pension (oil or auto preferably) where the recipient stands to receive $650,00 per year for the rest of their lives?

Bueller?
Bueller?
Bueller?
Anyone?

41 There was a story here in Oregon a few years ago about a head librarian who was being paid $500,000/yr.  Turns out, she didn't even have to apply for the job, the governor invented the position just for her because she worked on his campaign.

It's no wonder we are fucking broke. 

42

Its a hell of a thing to live in Bizzaro World (tm).  Where all the city council members and other worthless do-nothing city workers are marxists and HATE the free market along with capitalism... but are pulling down 15x the average wage..  Yeesssss.. down with capitalism!

 

I think the so-called 'ruling' class have felt WAY too secure lately.. The only thing that ever scared Napoleon or even Augustus was an angry mob.   With many people around here having been unemployed for over a year or more, I think its basically inevitable that one of these worthless idiots gets thrown off the 10 story building they pull their 'salary' from.

Note to dems:  You've intentionally destroyed our economy for 'social justice'... now the CHICKENS ARE COMING HOME ..... TO ROOOOOOST!!!!  HAHAHAHAHA

43 I am not sure what all they're saying on the news, but the really bad thing is, Bell is kind of a shit hole on top of it. A very basic, lower working class city. NTTAWWT, but $800,000??????

44

PA thanks for this late post....

 

I am glad that we did our small part....

 

now more cities must do this.

45 Well the weird thing it was probably illegals that were protesting because they barely spoke English. Mexicans are conservative at the core.  The dude got busted for a dui which made everything a lot easier to have them quit.  Why did they let them have more time?  They are thieves they need to go NOW!  They had a secret election and voted in those salaries.  They even had mail in ballots, ratbastards.  300 or so voted out of 40 thousand people.  We really have to watch out for others doing this because they're desperate.  The city counsel was in on it too.  CA is a rats nest.

46 Rizzo looks like an extra from the Sopranos. Just saying.

So, likely nothing will happen to him. Because the "Mob" beats the mob. He's got a 600 Large pension. Scot-free and eternal. We pick up the tab.

Its a hammer to beat Jerry Brown with by Meg Whitman, if she picks it up.

But thats about it. Wait till a lame duck Congress passes all sorts of stuff, and Obama figures to go out "Jonestown style" in a big bang!

Heck I expect besides a VAT, card check, Cap and Tax, Carbon Taxes, instant amnesty and citizenship to all of Mexico, and reparations, and other "get Whitey" stuff near and dear to Obama's heart. This is the guy who's main criticism of his father was that Senior did not go far enough in the ethnic cleansing department of Kenya wrt Indians.

47 have you guys seen this? it's friggin' awesome

48 So now the city gets to pay these jerks their $500K to $700K retirement benefits AND gets to hire another three jerks who are probably just as crooked.

49 "Well the weird thing it was probably illegals that were protesting because they barely spoke English. Mexicans are conservative at the core."

I know it might make you feel better to think this is true, but it absolutely isn't.  Latinos tend toward political apathy and socialism, especially when there are guilty white people around to mooch off of and take down a peg.  Note that this whole situation developed in a 90% Latino town, and no one even noticed until the LA Times made it a front page story.  This is why I don't understand people who are afraid of "European socialism" emerging in the US.  We're actually heading towards Latin American socialism, which is infinitely worse.

50

@62 have you guys seen this? it's friggin' awesome

It was totally awesome...thanks for the link.

51 Is this old?

Sorry...

Bell, CA Mayor, Oscar Hernadez, Landlord of Methlabs offers his take...

"They doan fine nothin' againsth usth!"

52 T-bird #4
<blockquote>That means an $800,000 a year position is open. Where do I apply, or do they do it via a raffle?</blockquote>

You can have the job, but you have to blow me first.

53

How about this for a plan? Part of the new Contract with America for the coming push in November would be :

Public Pension Funds

No public defined benefit pension fund shall pay more than 1.25 times the Federal poverty level except in the case for law enforcement, which will be capped at 2 times Federal minimum wage. We will enable legislation for public employees to opt for 401k coverage with no participation by the public treasury - the public treasury is not intended to provide permanent gifts of money to public servants.

 

54 Severance packages?  They get up to $600,000 a year in pension pay! 

55

Under my plan, that 600k pension would only pay out $13,537.50 per year, max.

That would make most municipalities and almost all states' pension funds self-supporting immediately.

56

Of course, I'd except military because that is part of the cost of our duty to them.

There's no way I'd see the military pension ever becoming a problem anyway. There are so few career military compared to overpaid fat board member secretaries and Directors of Coordination and Program Coordinator directors - none of whom give any value compared to one lifer non-com.

 

57 Purple,
Not to be a douche, but a few commenters posted this last week, Ace's reportage not withstanding.

58 More targets up in Bell. Now the people there are going after teh city council and mayor that set up the city for this crap, and then APPROVED the salaries.

59

Ace..

Sorry..this is a bit stream-of-consciousÂ… I donÂ’t do outlines..but here goes..

A few of things you have written over the past several days have really frosted my cookies. You mentioned that your CT friends have stopped coming because the blog has become too angryÂ…too vitriolicÂ…too mean. I know you have been saying that yourself for a whileÂ…sort of..you more like targeted your criticism to defend your cob-loggers. (You know what..the unemployment rate in CT is about 1.5 points lower than the national average. )

You know why there is a lot of anger hereÂ…itÂ’s because people are fucking angry. I really donÂ’t know much about you. I know you live in NYC..IÂ’m guessing your 40-somethingÂ…youÂ’re conservative-ishÂ…youÂ’re sharp-witted and funny as fuckÂ…but thatÂ’s about it. I donÂ’t know your financial situation. I donÂ’t know how you are being personally affected by the economic “situation”. I kinda get the idea that this blog is your primary, if not your sole source, of income. Now I know how expensive NYC is to live in. I do business there a lot. I have been offered jobs in the past where I would have to move there,  but turned them down because the high cost of living. Is the blog money that good? What IÂ’m getting at is that I suspect that maybe family money helps out.  If IÂ’m wrongÂ…tell me. But out hereÂ…things are really shitty.

I am seeing many, many friends and family having their lives turned upside down. A few examples..my BIL, who made a good living with his own business in the building trades after years of working his ass off since he was 17 has gone through all his savings, cannot sell his own house, and is now going through his retirement funds. He can’t find work anywhere in his industry….or any kind of work anywhere. He has 4 kids. My brother who was given a “move to Texas or look for work elsewhere” order from his company in the oil service industry sold his house…moved to TX..and is now being told the job there my go away because of the moratorium on drilling..and he has 6 kids. Another brother in machine tools has been out of work for two years. My wife has been enjoying “funemployment” for almost three years. She was in the auto industry. (Fun fact about that: She worked for over 10 years for a company that was jointly owned by one of the Big 3 and a major supplier. She worked in mgmt. When the plant closed down, she got 2 weeks severance . The minimum that ANY of the union workers got..no matter their tenure was $160,000 cash!!!.That was the minimum..some got almost 7 figures) We’re now paying for their retirement benefits through Barky.

Now the whole fucking root of our economic mess is fucking government  Idiocy.  IÂ’m not defending them as a whole, but the Wall St. meltdown was an unavoidable consequence of the policies forced onto our economy by Democrats, namely the CRA and Fannie and Freddie. The fucking scumbags who were supposed to the stewards at Fannie and Freddie used them as their own cash cows..and literally were paid tens of millions of dollarsÂ…while cooking the books. Without getting too far into the weedsÂ…they were the ones who created the toxic assets.

60

(rant continued)

Now the whole fucking root of our economic mess is fucking government  idiocy.  IÂ’m not defending them as a whole, but the Wall St. meltdown was an unavoidable consequence of the policies forced onto our economy by Democrats, namely the CRA and Fannie and Freddie. The fucking scumbags who were supposed to the stewards at Fannie and Freddie used them as their own cash cows..and literally were paid tens of millions of dollarsÂ…while cooking the books. Without getting too far into the weedsÂ…they were the ones who created the toxic assets.

The govÂ’t is doubling down on its stupidity. The $1.2 trillion stimulus is a flop. It was designed solely as a means to prop up both private and public sector jobsÂ…PERIOD!! The healthcare bill..which we cannot pay for (oh BTW..my mother who has been paying into Medicare Â…BY FORCE..for the last 45 years on the promise she would get the necessary care in her twilight years is being told by her doctors that she will have to start paying for certain procedures out of her own pocket because their reimbursements are being cut) does nothing to improve healthcare availability, delivery, efficacy..or fucking anything. All it is doing is forcing people out of private insurance into public, with the final goal of single payer. In other wordsÂ…complete government control. Funny thing..the people who created this exempted themselves.

Speaking of Congress exempting themselves lawÂ…did you know that it is perfectly legal for Congress to trade on insider information??..where everyone else in the country would face fines or prison. The investment portfolios of Congress perform 25% than the national average. Gosh, I wonder why.

The elected officials have set themselves up as an elite class. They have set up the system where they are protected financially, legally, and  politically. And weÂ’re fucking angry about that.

 

61

#62 Ms. Weasel

F'n AWESOME!!!!

I have all the books, and its just like 'em. Cannot wait to add this to my collection.

 

62 beedubya--good rant.

63

(more of my nonsense)

Moreover, the dominant media is at one with this ruling political class. ItÂ’s no longer that they are just biased, they have become the character assassins for their far left ideological fellow travelers in government.

Â…which brings me to what you said about morons defending Palin and Breitbart too much. They are just two of the very few who will not back down. They are not cowed by the media attacks. Instead, they are taking it right back to them.

Palin was the target of the most vicious political attack since McCarthy (donÂ’t get me wrong. He was the victimÂ…not the perpetrator) You can argue about her experience and perceived lack of intelligence, but pleaseÂ…look at who we have as POTUS and VPÂ…and yet she keeps on coming. Know why??? ..because the attacks are bullshit. Every time I hear a conservative echo the left wing talking points about her, I just see it as giving the left added ammo cuzÂ…gosh, lookit all the conservatives who thinks sheÂ’s stupid and corrupt too.

What is it now?? 25 ethics charges brought against herÂ…and 25 shot down?? The left is scared to death of her because she is an appealing figure who gives voice to those who are generally ignored

Breibart is another one who is not afraid to fight back. His perceived fault?? …that he uses the same tactics as the left. Bullshit That’s just how the left wing attack machine is able to twist it because too few are coming to his defense…and too many squishes on the right are more concerned about not offending their “friends across the aisle”. Even this last episode about Sherrod is being twisted. His whole point was to show the approval of her own stated racist behavior by the NAACP…after same group was using the race card against the Tea Party…basing their declaration on the media propagated lies about incidents at the rally in DC …THAT NEVER HAPPENED!!!!!!

64 I reckon' I could be one o them fellers that makes all that money...shore would give me a lot of money fer some french fried pertaters...hm-hmmm.

65

It wasn't just the citizen's of Bell, Ca., who were in an uproar about their sleazy city officials. As I recall, there were two other recent instances when Californians became miffed at the condescending attitudes of their snotty, elitist U.S. Congressmen in townhall meetings.

 Like Obama, those other government bureaucrats have come to think of themselves as royalty and to think of the rest of us as dumb peons ....., which most people are, actually, now that I think about it. What's that old saying; in a democracy, people get the government that they deserve?

66

 

(more)

What is perhaps most fucking insidious is when those on the rightÂ…even though it goes against their conviction and beliefÂ…allow themselves to be cowed into silence or toning down their criticism because they are afraid of the backlash they might receive for being too strident or are afraid that what they say will be twisted. Of course it will beÂ…because thatÂ’s what the media doesÂ…because we let them.

The Joe Barton incident is a perfect example. He was 100% correct. BP was strong-armed by an out of control government who just wanted use the incident for political gainÂ…while at the same time completely ignoring the separation of powers laid out I the constitution. We have a fucking court system for the effected people to seek restitution.

It fucking drives me crazy when I hear those on the right say that Barton was 100% correct, but he should have said it in a different way, place and time. Huh?? When the else would have it gotten any attention??

If more conservatives had come to his defense rather than criticizing him, more people would been made aware that Obama acted illegallyÂ…again. Instead, all we got was apologies from the squishes.

I am fucking sick to death of what is happening to this countryÂ…and I am fucking tired of being called a racist because I object Â…And  I am frustrated  by those who are afraid to stand up.

67

Posted by: lowandslow at July 24, 2010 08:43 AM (GZitp)

A blog is just a release medium

68 beedubya I agree 100 percent with everything you are saying here. The other aspect of living and working in the NE like I do - I have to hide, never say anything, seriously if I post the "wrong" things on stupid Facebook I stop getting projects. . . we already have lost so much freedom. We should be ANGRY. really angry. Living in the NE, there is so much "sheet" you have to eat every day, so much corruption and ineptitude that's just par for the course, so many taxes layered upon taxes, so many fat-assed bureaucrats making your life an exquisite hell . . . and God FORBID you say anything about it. Those who do have to be damned tough (and probably independently wealthy). What happens is it's just easier to go along to get along. That's what's up with the CT people and probably Ace and most certainly my husband (who was once Conservative and is now a Dem). You are SOAKING in it. There is no other way to think. It's so much easier to watch the news and believe it; to listen to NPR. It's just so much easier to live in the lies.

69 beedub.....excellent.

70 .....most certainly my husband (who was once Conservative and is now a Dem).

That's an odd conversion.  It's usually the other way around.

71

Black Orchid said" What happens is it's just easier to go along to get along. That's what's up with the CT people and probably Ace and most certainly my husband (who was once Conservative and is now a Dem).

 

Why is he a Dem? Does he work for the Gov.?

72 88. He's in Advertising, works in Philly all day surrounded by the Young and Obots, goes to the gym with Ed Rendell - he listens to them all day. He needs to stay "young" and relevant and thinks I - the former Liberal - am completely losing my mind.

73 btw having been a complete flaming Liberal until after the whole Gore/Bush thing (when my friends all lost their minds) - a lot of it is that we are working with different information. That's not entirely true - many "liberals" and Dems are simply looking out for their own self-interests. Definitely the older ones. But for me, I read The City Paper and the Inky and figured it was the truth. I listened to NPR all day. My friends were all artists and musicians. *I* was soaking in it. And I still had the power of logic, but I was working from false premises. When I started to question them, and realize I'd been had, everyone started getting really really angry with me. Now things are hot, so I'm back in hiding as much as I can. I'm not moving to South Carolina any time soon, so I'm stuck!

74

If God didn't mean for them to be sheared, He wouldn't have made them sheep.

People are funny: When they get together in a mob, they draw courage from each other, and they become emboldened  to get a lynch mob mentality. But when the mob breaks up, they go back to being wussy, apathetic sheep. Street hustlers like Obama and other politicians recognize that fact, and so they get their dimwitted shills in the MSM to confuse and to disperse the mob.

Politicians are no sleazier than their constituents are. Government bureaucrats are a reflection of the people who put them into office.

75
Keep going.  Who is next?

76 Beedubya -- Thanks for the cogent and heartfelt rant/analysis.  Don't know if you read the recent American Spectator piece on the ruling class, but it lines up with what you are saying perfectly and is getting a lot of praise as the next "Common Sense."

BlackOrchid -- I took a great, year-long Russian Civilization course in college and read some interesting stuff on Russia/USSR on my own.  Among the things I learned was how people marinating in the Communist/Totalitarian stew of daily life got worn out from living with the constant repetition of lies - even if they didn't lie themselves, just feeling like they had to shut up and listen to others repeat the lies without being contradicted demoralized them. 

In the U.S., we have gotten to that point primarily by wanting, as individuals, to get through our days without constant arguments.  It has become easier to ignore or nod apparent approval at left-wing bullshit than get into the inevitable shouting match lefties are ready to have at the drop of a hat with anyone who voices disagreement with them.  I don't think we can stomach arguing every day.  But maybe we can declare (amongst ourselves) that Tuesdays are Truthdays - every Tuesday, make it your mission to rebut (or at least actively express disagreement with) leftist crap whenever you hear it spoken.  Someone mentions global warming, you say you think it is bullshit.  Someone engages in Bush-bashing, you say you think he was a good President and certainly far better than Kerry or Gore would have been.  You get the idea.  Then, Wednesday through Monday, go back to ignoring the assholes.  They (and everyone else) will begin to realize that you always disagree with them, but you are simply choosing to voice those disagreements primarily on Tuesdays.  Hmmm, I like this.

77

And Ace is getting sick of people using his bog as that release because it's usually directed back at him if he doesn't tow the line of those angry people. Doesn't he have a right to be pissed at that also?

Posted by: lowandslow at July 24, 2010 09:06 AM (GZitp)

I understand what you're saying BUT he usually ends up arguing against what he's put up in his thread.  For example, this is the headline from the latest Sherrod thread,

"Heartwarming Racist Sherrie Sherrod: Andrew Breitbart Would Like To Put All Blacks Back Into Slavery. 

Gee, I wonder where Breitbart ever could have gotten the idea that this woman was a black-hearted, vicious racist."

When people see that and agree that she's a racist, he starts arguing with them that for them to assume she is based on the original Breitbart tape makes them an 'asshole' and Breitbart screwed up.  That I don't understand. 

78 All too often in Kaleefornia, a new guy is hired at more than the previous turd's salary.  No having to prove your worth before getting an increase.  These 'professional' managers go from one city to the next, with constant salary increases.  They either spend money like a drunken sailor on liberty, or they're Scrooge McDuck and won't spend a dime on anything.  Then tout the 'savings' as infrastructure and equipment falls apart.  It's always either feast or famine.  You'll note that it's always the 'mangers' who get the big bucks.  The guy shoveling shit in the gutter doesn't see those high salaries.

79 beedubya nicely said.

80 And Ace is getting sick of people using his bog as that release because it's usually directed back at him if he doesn't tow the line of those angry people. Doesn't he have a right to be pissed at that also?

Certainly, it's his pool, and he invites us in to play.  Don't piss in it. At the same time, it's a quasi-public pool, where he's the lifeguard.  "Quit running, or you're out of here."  That's a hard balance to maintain, and I'm sure he struggles with it, as anyone would.

Recognize that he's also a "very good guy", someone I would be happy to consider a friend were we to encounter each other in meatspace.  I'm not buttering him up, or anything, but merely making an assessment of his character based on what I've seen him do over the years.  He's a giving dude.  He gives great big chunks of his life so that we have a place to talk about bacon and tits.

He also has a hell of a temper.  The other day he mentioned a "LGF-style purge".  Do I believe him?  No.  He was highly pissed and it would be outside of his character do go that far.  Is he agitated as fuck and getting an itchy ban-button finger?  Yep.  Some dipshits talk revolution.  That's the surest way to make his head explode.  And they don't do it nicely.  I've been accused of it, because I think he misconstrued something I said and his head exploded.  He was highly pissed at me.  I understand that.  He's not perfect, and it's stupid to expect any person to be so.  Ace and I have actually gone around a couple times, at the tops of our lungs.  That's within both our characters.  But I'd still consider both of us "good guys."  And as for the revolution-mongers, that's stupid.  There are about 10 outrageous steps between here and there.  The odds of such a thing are low.  And these fucktards are hoping for it. I understand their anger, but not their strident voices in its favor.  They remind me of the 9-11 truthers, sometimes, whom I always tell that, if their story is true, and the government did it, clearly the only rational and adult response is to raise an army and storm Washington.  They shut up then.  The revolution guys remind me of a line from "Rob Roy", when Liam Neeson says "It's bad enough it might be true, without you wishin' it."  Just stop the fucking Red Dawn fantasies.  If it does come, you'll likely be under your kitchen table in a pool of your own urine, anyway.  There is no more horrible thing that could happen to humanity than that highly unlikely eventuality.  Some are just to stupid to know it.

You can argue with Ace just fine.  "Ace, you're wrong" gets a very different response than "YOU WEAKLING COCKSUCKER!!1!!1  REVOLUTION!! AAARRGGH".

Ace completed his LGF-ban rant with a simple warning: watch the tone. I think that's simple enough. "Quit running by the pool, or you're out of here".

 

81 You can argue and get angry without labeling someone a Manhattan elitist

That was me.  See previous about "tops of our lungs".  Also, it was meant to be a semi humorous drive-by shot, not an accurate assessment of my opinion of Ace.  It came out kind of wrong, more bitterly than it was meant, and that was my fault.

82 Blog comments have no voice inflection or facial expression, so they are very limited in their ability to communicate ideas accurately.  People need to keep that in mind at all times.

83 But seriously Herr, how many people in the course of those threads (or others) actually say that in their posts?  What?  1%? or less?  He has a habit of taking the worst post and applying it to everyone in the thread that disagrees with him.  But whatever...it's his blog and people have the option of reading/posting or not.

84 I don't think it was just you

Maybe there were others, but I take responsibility.  Ace may live in Manhattan, but he's no "elitist". 

85 He has a habit of taking the worst post and applying it to everyone in the thread that disagrees with him.

Bingo.

86 He has a habit of taking the worst post and applying it to everyone in the thread that disagrees with him.

And a habit of inferring shit that just wasn't there.  He's well aware of all of it.  Like I said, he is a "good guy", and recognizes his own mistakes.  And repeats them sometimes too.  He ain't perfect, and that's no crime. 

87 you seem to be the one lone voice against a mob so you lash out against the whole mob

Very true.

88

I don't have a problem with racism, or with anti-Semitism either. It doesn't effect me.

In some instances, it is born out of ignorance, but in most cases, it's in one's DNA. Seriously.

It will never be eradicated.  It's human nature and it's genetic, kind of a tribal thingy going back tens of thousands of years, one group's instinctive need to obtain supremacy over another group to ensure survival of the fittest. You might say that God put racism and bigotry in all of us to ensure the survival of a species.  In one way or another, it can be seen in all of the living creatures on this planet.

89 Tami,

What you are seeing is stream of consciousness posting.

Ace  (or Gabe,  or whoever) make a decision on the information they have available right now.   Then when people disagree with their snap decision,  making a different snap decision,  they get upset.

Then,  of course,  about 50% of the time it turns out that the angry 50% that were castigated turn out to have been right,  so then the 50% who agreed with Ace originally are then the estupidos and  are criticized.

The way I look at it,  this format keeps me humble and always questioning things.

Of course,  it does not make Ace humble,  but then he gets to be a know-it-all because he had the gumption to set up a web site,  which I have not.

90  beedubya,

Well said. 

Do you get up before noon?  I might have a spot for you here at Valu Rite Hobo heaven. 

It's hot as fuck in NYC, so I am sleeping in.  See you around 3ish after my latte and bagel.

Oh that was mean, sorry.

91 Then,  of course,  about 50% of the time it turns out that the angry 50% that were castigated turn out to have been right,  so then the 50% who agreed with Ace originally are then the estupidos and  are criticized.

*cough* TARP *cough*

92 A very simple rule: you don't come into a guy's house, or in this case his small business, and take a dump on the floor. Even if he's your best friend, he's going to get pretty pissed off about that.

This is Ace's business. The business model depends on getting traffic. If something's happening on the blog that reduces traffic, he has every right to do whatever the fuck he wants to about it.

beedubya, if you really felt you must get all that off your chest, I hope you at least emailed it to Ace too instead of just dropping it here in the comments. You know he doesn't read the blog.

93 When people see that and agree that she's a racist, he starts arguing with them that for them to assume she is based on the original Breitbart tape makes them an 'asshole' and Breitbart screwed up.  That I don't understand.

Breitbart *did* screw up.  We're so used to his playing ninja-fu with the ACORN tapes that his sloppiness on this tape is weird.  That doesn't mean he's liable for any of what happened or any of that nonsense, just that he should've noticed the obvious edits in the tape and demanded the full source.

94 "He also has a hell of a temper. 

The other day he mentioned a "LGF-style purge".

Oh, no not "That" again.

95 Breitbart *did* screw up.

To a degree.  Doesn't matter anymore, as events have overtaken that slip up.

And by "events" I mean "Shirley Sherrod keeps talking"

96 And by "events" I mean "Shirley Sherrod keeps talking"

And also that she's become the White House's problem while doing that talking.

97 Screw the Breitbart angle, it's been beaten to death.
The real story is that the Admin. saw (heard about?) a blog post, and before the news channels could even cover it, fired someone that they now claim is an invaluable asset to the country.
I've heard everyone around Vilsack take their blame, give their apologies, etc., but there had to be pressure from the top. Maybe not BHO personally, but Rahm or Axelrod had to give the go ahead for an immediate firing with this kind of politically/racially sensitive nature. These people do everything possible to retain employees in virtually all other circumstances, but this time they were all hot to fire a (demonstrably litigious) minority woman over nothing but a website?
No way an underling made that call.

98

And Ace is getting sick of people using his bog as that release because it's usually directed back at him if he doesn't tow the line of those angry people. Doesn't he have a right to be pissed at that also?

True that. It's his blog.... but.at the same time, it wouldn't exist without its readers.

AoSHQ is, and to a lesser dgree lately, a freewheeling place where one could vent, be ribald, be un-PC..and everyone would have a fucking blast..

...at the same time, it's very self-regulating. The more out-of-bounds comments are challenged by other commenters, and usually the offendor gets slapped down pretty hard.

I, myself, went through an experience a couple of weeks back where I used the terms darkie and white n****r  to point out the irony that Robert Byrd's funeral color guard was all white when the 30% of the military is black. Anyone with a modicum of sense could see that it was nothing but a slam on Byrd and the media pretense. But I caught a lot of shit from the pillow biters that I was being naughty and it could be perceived as being racially insensitive..and thereby bringing shame on AoS.

From what I am seeing is that most of the acrimony and hostility is between a couple of the cob loggers and commenters. I'll admit to being in on some of that. I don't involve myself in the insults and name-calling though..at least I don't think I have.

I think that may be the cause  part of Ace's perturbance. The cob loggers are his proxies...and he stands up for them. But the subs shouldn't think they should be able to engage in disrespect without it being returned.

To be honest, I come here more and more for the commenters rather than the bloggers. The posts kick off the conversations....but there are a lot of really smart and really fucking funny people here.

My wife will just sit there and shake her head at me because there are times when I am just laughing my as off.

One of the funnier is here this morning.

Anyway...this blog may be angrier these days, but it's just a reflection of the society at large

99 I understand what everyone is saying.  All I'm trying to say is if that's his reaction to disagreement, then don't bait your audience!  HE called her a 'heartwarming racist' in his title yesterday, HE sarcastically wondered how Breitbart would ever get the impression that she was a racist.  So why go off on people when they're agreeing with your premise?

I'm not arguing whether Breitbart screwed up or not.

100 they were all hot to fire a (demonstrably litigious) minority woman over nothing but a website?

One quibble:  Breitbart is a lot more than just "a website".  He's a major, major player. If this had been up here or on HotAir, it wouldn't have had the same punch, I don't think.

101 All y'all make me crazy when you start hatin' on Ace. This isn't Minuscule Verdant Pigskins, y'know, and Ace isn't some wacked-out Chuckles Johnson. I can tell: he hasn't posted any amateur photography of seascapes here. Yet, anyway.

I haven't seen all that much inconsistency in his reactions to comments. And when he does seem to get a little more crazed than usual, I think it can be correlated to temporary Valu-Rite price reductions. Or it could be he's a bit of a showman, and likes to stir the shit. Who knows?

Compare AoSHQ to sites like Tepid Air ("The hits are down. Get Allahpundit to throw up a Palin post -- STAT!" or "You're slipping, Ed...that's two posts in a row without you writing 'on the other hand...'") and be grateful to Ace and his little minions.

_{After all, what other conservative site lets us say "fuck" when we want to?}

I'm not blind to the limits here. I for one would like to see posters hammering on the criminality, divisiveness and treasonous behavior at the top of the government. The Sherrod affair was just symptomatic of the larger disease, a distraction from the real story, which is the extraordinary malfeasance of the Traitor-in-Chief.

And I'd like to see more commenters showing a bit of civility when differing opinions are posted. The knee-jerk accusations of troll-ism and worse are getting tiresome. They show a lack of imagination and, frankly a lack of real thought from the people who lash out automatically when confronted with any idea that deviates from their narrow concept of what is "right."

But what are the alternatives? Where else you gonna go?

102 Ace is definitely not the white man's bitch. 

103 The knee-jerk accusations of troll-ism

Usually noobs trying to fit in.  They don't get some of the subtleties all the time.  beedubs "white ni--er" comment that he refers to is a great example.  If I recall Ace actually defended him on that, because he got it.

104

It's been a hot summer --  perhaps a lot of people have let it get too them too much.

Time for a nice, ice cold lemonade (hard or soft anybody's option), and we let our heads cool down a bit, no?

The "revolution" talk needs to be dialed down a notch -- it's very, very unwise; I can't stress that enough.

Making questionable comments about certain groups of people is also unwise (and it could be any group -- when I first started commenting here, a Mr. Wiserbud and I got into it because he was, imho, leading a rather nasty snark fest aimed at college age girls; if I hadn't learned to not let comments get me down I probably would have never come back here...and not had anything good to say about the place).  Hey, you can be angry at a demographic, you can be frustrated, you can simply not like them because you are indeed a bigot -- but there is a line that really shouldn't be crossed, and if you do, you're playing right into the hands of the race baiters and the bastards that set this whole mess up in the first place.  Besides, this country is in a shitload of trouble right now -- people who would try to save it need all the help they can get, so it's probably not a good idea to go pissing everyone outside of your little group off by taking gratuitous pot shots at them.  Disagree yes; act like a jr. high bully, no.

105

Someone engages in Bush-bashing, you say you think he was a good President and certainly far better than Kerry or Gore would have been.  You get the idea.  Then, Wednesday through Monday, go back to ignoring the assholes.  They (and everyone else) will begin to realize that you always disagree with them, but you are simply choosing to voice those disagreements primarily on Tuesdays.  Hmmm, I like this.

I practice a variation of this method. A lot depends on the personality of the leftard who wants to engage. If I know they are beyond any kind of reason or logic, I just ignore. Because reality eventually comes knocking on everyone's door, and my name is not Reality. If the engager is a squishy moderate, someone who looks like they really are confused about what's happening, I'll talk to them. They usually start out by parroting the LSM talking points, but when it's obvious that each one of those points is easily refuted, the engager just walks away or sometimes even agrees with me. But it does require stamina and energy, no doubt about that. You do have to pick your battles.

106

Watch: Shirly Sherrod is so opinionated that she will be the gift that keeps giving for Republicans, putting her foot in her mouth once a week every week for the net few months, hopefully. _{(Kind of like Sarrah Palin is the gift that keeps giving for Democrats.)} Ooops, did I say that?

 Ah, these opinionated women; they contribute so much to politics.

107 Usually noobs trying to fit in.

And to continue on that, I've seen a fair number lately, and I think that's great.  More the merrier and all that shit.  I remember when I first came here, and it was intimidating, and I didn't get all the jokes, and the commenters scared the shit out of me. _{Wicked Pinto}. Be patient with the noobs.  There is no harder site in the interwebs to be a noob than here.

108 62 have you guys seen this? it's friggin' awesome

That is some of the strangest shit I have ever seen, and damned funny!

109 I'm not on the blog often enough lately but I have a theory.  I think the conservative blogs are getting "palinized".  But, it's being done in a very surreptitious way.  Someone, not a regular, will make an outrageous statement, outrageous.  The kind of thing you read and say "what?  who the heck is this? and it's not even funny, so it's not snark" but, it's usually scary kind of stuff and then, the spammer posts right after, almost like a marker.  Build up enough of these scary posts, marked by the spammer and you have yourself a case against the conservative blog.  Some of the most heinous, ace has caught, which probably contributes to his upsetment.  Heretofore, he hasn't had to monitor the comments, he knew hsi posters and they weren't rabblerousers, they were funny, deep thinkers.  But, if someone, anyone wanted to build a case against a blog by "pulling out examples", some of these posts might make you think the blog might be "inflammatory".  Since you don't know what's in the recently passed laws (the gold tax in the health bill is the example that comes to mind), Ace doesn't know if these random inflamatory posts might come back to haunt him some day.  It's almost like he has to hire a college kid to read and monitor every post or he has to ask his regulars to note an inflammatory post with "cleanup in aisle whatever" like some of us have been doing.

110 Hey, you can be angry at a demographic, you can be frustrated, you can simply not like them because you are indeed a bigot -- but there is a line that really shouldn't be crossed, and if you do, you're playing right into the hands of the race baiters and the bastards that set this whole mess up in the first place.

And we often forget that for every commenter, there's 30 other sets of eyes on this place.  The majority of hits are lurkers.

111 One of the funnier is here this morning.

There is nothing funny about that purge shit, so to speak.

112 Our buddy alexthechick just tweeted the following: BFF died about an hour ago. It feels like someone just ripped my soul clean away.

Let's throw her some moron love and prayers.

113

The Angry Mob Play Set:

http://tinyurl.com/2fmxvue

 

114 128 It's been a hot summer.

I told you so.

115 Herr's just pissed off because his goat, lamb, whatever, got fucked at the fair and still has the shits.

116 "136 Our buddy alexthechick just tweeted the following: BFF died about an hour ago. It feels like someone just ripped my soul clean away.

Let's throw her some moron love and prayers.

Posted by: Andy at July 24, 2010 10:41 AM (pRbtk)"

Ugh, I'm so sorry alexthechick, so sorry. hugs hugs hugs....and tons of prayers....

117 Our buddy alexthechick just tweeted the following: BFF died about an hour ago. It feels like someone just ripped my soul clean away.

what's her twitter?

118

I'm kinda ticked that this Sherrod thing devolved into "rahhhhscist, rahhhscist" (which racism is a feature of the story but it is not the only one)...in the meantime that lawsuit and what's going on with it is getting very little scrutiny (conservatives are too busy worrying about "rahhhhscist!  Raaaascist!!!").  There's a big story there -- it needs to be given attention! 

You know?  Real news???

119 One of the funnier is here this morning.

*cough* Herr *cough*

120 "The majority of hits are lurkers."

That fact was made plain to me a couple weeks ago over at Althouse. I had been chatting/arguing on a few different threads for an hour or so. Basically the same dozen posters in all the threads, with the occasional random drop-in.
Anyway, while I was perusing the site, Ann posted a poll (something innocuous, like what to have for dinner) and by the time I finished posting a comment, went back to the front page and voted in the poll (maybe 5 minutes, max.), a hundred and twenty people had already voted!

121 Herr's just pissed off because his goat, lamb, whatever, got fucked at the fair and still has the shits.

I doubt he still has the shits.  At this point he has been disarticulated and his components brought to a much lower temperature.

122 I have a doofus-assed sister that works for a county Mental Health department in California and makes $12,000 a month doing bookwork and bitching.    Her time is spent colluding with county officials making sure they all have job security.  It's a joke.  And she brags about it -- that's what ticks me off.

123 #142

All state and federal employees are exempt from SS.  They can opt in if they want.

Just the sheep get sheared.

124 Cavuto and buds are discussing GM buying the subprime lender with our money.  CNBC has been discussing this for days.  I guess most folks don't understand why they had to buy a "subprime lender" cause that is what contributed to the problem to begin with and, thus far, the buds are coming up with great arguments, like CNBC, as to why this is ludicrous.  But then someone says "maybe the WH understands that even people on the fringe need some help" while another commenter says "but they will be the defaults".  It appears that they are still trying to help the same people, the people who can't really repay and end up defaulting.  There has to be a better way to help them rather than watching them drown?

125 One of the funnier is here this morning.

*cough* Herr *cough*

Posted by: Sucking Up Moron at July 24, 2010 10:44 AM (DVPCk)

Take care of THIS!

126 #125

Thanks for that. Now gotta go wipe the coffee from my computer screen...

127

131  Noobs afraid of regulars?  Really?  I fail to see why anyone should be afraid -- it's a bunch of people, opinionated people, spouting whatever comes out of their ass that manages to reach their fingertips -- that's all it is.  Some of it is worthwhile, most is blather, and occasionally a couple of people piss in your punchbowl...but it isn't anything to be afraid of.

Maybe there needs to be an orientation course.

 

 

 

 

128 Sorry.  Couldn't resist.

129 Sorry.  Couldn't resist.

Totally approve.

130 AoSHQ has so far been kind of immune to it.

MATT DAMON!

131 I was so thrilled when Ford refused "aid".  I shoudl have bought the stock but I saw what happened at GM and was a little afraid.  Have some friends who bought some stock and are thrilled.  Always wondered why soem of the bansters went along with the mess.  They were fine, they would have survived no matter what, yet they went along cause they were sort of forced to go along since they were told that you don't want people to be able to figure out who is in trouble.  Why not?  If they were in trouble maybe that is what bankruptcy is for and then you come out of it n a better place.

132 So Ford turns a profit of $2.6B and GM buys a subprime lender with our money.  Brilliant.

We're hoping that by making more financing available, people will begin to desire our product.

133

 Noobs afraid of regulars ?

Yes we are, a little, but I don't know why.  In real life I'm not afraid to very loudly express my opinions, but here I'm reserved even in anonimity. Go figure.

134 So the clown on the city council who hired and approved these contracts are still in place?  making 100K/yr for a part time gig.

135 Yes we are, a little, but I don't know why.

A lot of very, very smart people here, and the comments section is the rowdiest mosh pit around.  I remember it well, as I said.  The commenters can be intimidating until you get to know them.  And half of us are about batshit crazy to begin with.  It doesn't help that when we're half soused late at night.

But, fuck it.  Jump on in.

136 Weren't these jobs like school board jobs, part time and you do it cause you care about your friends and neighbors and then your kid gets into Harvard as a thank you for all your service?

137 147 I have a doofus-assed sister that works for a county Mental Health department in California and makes $12,000 a month doing bookwork and bitching.    Her time is spent colluding with county officials making sure they all have job security.  It's a joke.  And she brags about it -- that's what ticks me off.

Posted by: prettypinkfluffypanties at July 24, 2010 10:45 AM (W0gjI)

$144K/yr as a book keeper?  Kidding, right?...which county?

138 165 I'm really looking forward to Monday when Ford unveils their 2011 Explorer.  Like to see the change in that one. From the teasers shots so far, looks a bit like the new Range Rover.

Posted by: CDR M at July 24, 2010 10:58 AM (5I8G0)

Seen it as well -- I hope it is a hit!

139 I blame Ron Paul.
Posted by: lowandslow at July 24, 2010 10:49 AM

And Mike Huckabee! 
_{No, Huck supporters, I'm mostly kidding.  I don't blame him for that, just for the Gulf oil leak and the first Iraq War...} 

Can I say something about the topic though?  It seems to me someone approved those three folks' salaries - a city council or whatever - so the "blame" for their paychecks rests there or with the residents of that city who failed to pay attention.  So although the salaries are ridiculously high, it seems to me them resigning is not the answer and on one level strikes me as a bit unfair.  I would certainly hope that with that kind of income they will get back on their feet ok, but now they've been kind of smeared and are unemployed and it just strikes me as unfair.

Now on a less serious note, I think it's important that we acknowledge that ace's release of the story about these salaries proves that he's a racist who wants to see us return to slavery. 

140 Weren't these jobs like school board jobs, part time and you do it cause you care about your friends and neighbors and then your kid gets into Harvard as a thank you for all your service?

Yes, but with half-mill salaries.  Folks are getting wise to just how well government employees, a third of them functionally illiterate, are living it up.

141 What I meant in the post is that they aren't usually paying jobs.  They are like the scoutmaster, no pay and his kid is, of course, the eagle scout.  But no one says a word cause he put in the time and did the work.  When did these old volunteer jobs suddenly get really lucrative ?  Was it when people were so apathetic that no one wanted the job?

142 @168
And by "unfair" I mostly mean the process not the outcome.  I really disapprove of badly executed HR practices.  That's the only thing about the Sherrod story that gave me any sympathy for her (and that was minimal) - she was entitled to due process and a proper investigation.  So were these people, imho. 

143 Interesting that this thread is calm and collected and rational. Maybe all of that steam that was blown off the last few days has something to do with it. Or maybe it's that we are all hung-over.

144 Do you think Ford will invite Harry Reid to the unveiling, he paid for after all.

145

  It seems to me someone approved those three folks' salaries - a city council or whatever - so the "blame" for their paychecks rests there or with the residents of that city who failed to pay attention.

...and maybe the media too

146 Noobs afraid of regulars?

That's overstating it a bit, I think.

I'm well out of the "noob" category (two, three years? I forget), but am still sometimes frosted by some "regulars" who who incessantly slam any opinion that differs from their own, who are condescending and rude to people looking for a discussion, not a harangue.

It isn't fear as much as frustration with those folks.

When I stopped paying much attention at Tepid Air, one of the many things contributing to my ennui there were a select few regular posters who appeared to be totally devoid of functioning synapses (like *cough* "Canopfor" *cough*). Commenters like that, and others who seem restricted to posting such gems as "RAAAAACISM!" in every thread are wearing out the scroll wheel on my mouse.

Oh, well.

Anyone can play on the interwebz. And they do.

147 172 Interesting that this thread is calm and collected and rational. Maybe all of that steam that was blown off the last few days has something to do with it. Or maybe it's that we are all hung-over.

I think I'm just high on cleaning product fumes. 

148 Or maybe it's that we are all hung-over.

Posted by: NJConservative at July 24, 2010 11:03 AM (LH6ir)

Not me.  Still shitfaced.

149 Posted by: Y-not is sick of packing at July 24, 2010 11:01 AM (O627A)

From the get go I felt this just didn't smell right and I kept saying that, in the midst of the oddest thread I"ve ever read on this blog with the exception of one of the palin threads.  I'm thinking that "outsiders" descended on the blog with the express purpose of creating chaos and guiding the narrative.  Which ultimately got ace furious.  I was horrified that the mob mentality took over with this woman.  Yes the mob wasn't physical but it came on the blackberry.  No time to explain, no time for your day in court, just pull over right now and quit cause you are going to be on Beck tonight.  Really?  really?  that's the way we conduct business now?  that wasn't sitting well with me and a few others but those who decended on the blog had a different narrative they wanted to shape and it reminded me of the "trig is not even her child" song.

150 OT:  Journ-O-List update:

An interesting (but not surprising)  bit from Ana Marie Cox -  LINK

Given all the hand-wringing that Journolist has caused on the left and right, it’s somewhat surprising that not one but two lists — that I know of! — have emerged to take its place in the political media-sphere.

151

Maybe there needs to be an orientation course.

Yeah, it's called read the blog and comments section for...awhile...before posting.  The FAQs sure as fuck aren't helpful.  It took forever for me to figure out "cowbell", "the chicken", and plenty of other AoSHQ-only memes.

heh

This really is a pretty tough blog to get the feel of.  Mainly the comments section.

152

Hey, Saturday is shopping day.  Get out of here and shop, you'll feel better,  girls.

Ooops, what am I saying?  Every day is shopping day for women.

153 I can't drink until after 4 pm (I have to drive across town before then), but now I'm kinda in the mood to get hammered. I think I'll pick up some brewskies, maybe even grab a grinder, and come home and drink myself silly on the patio.

154  A very simple rule: you don't come into a guy's house, or in this case his small business, and take a dump on the floor. Even if he's your best friend, he's going to get pretty pissed off about that.
There's a certain ponytailed blogger who sees any dissent of opinion just like this, but I think it's a completely unfair characterization.  Thankfully Ace isn't like that - hearing different views on things helps me to form educated opinions.

155

175  Meh, just do what I do -- sit back and get a mental picture going of slowly ripping their intestines out (for starters) while they scream in agony, while you laugh and laugh.

Always makes me feel better and capable of carrying on.

156 They are covering this on Fox right now.

Apparently fox says "this is one of the poorest cities".

157 Re arm the Japs, let us take care of your shit.

158 FWIW, there was some serious bomb-throwing on the ONT last night.  It was suggested (among other things) that Ace had been read the riot act at the Connecticut meetup by former M&Ms who now hang at The H2.  Said riot act was allegedly about how the current commenters are too angry and scared people away.

I think some of that's a function of the post selection though - if more of the "fun stuff" was posted during the day rather than being consigned to the sidebar or ONT the comments would naturally lighen up.

159 The city manager has a twenty million dollar pension fund and my parent's one IRA is worth sixty grand and they've worked hard all their lives????

160 This thread is soooooooooo boring -- how about this?!...FAB-U-LOUS!!!

http://preview.tinyurl.com/255vv8x

161 All state and federal employees are exempt from SS.  They can opt in if they want.

Just the sheep get sheared.

Posted by: Kemp at July 24, 2010 10:45 AM

Same with a majority college/university employees at individual institutions and systems..

...and the fucked part is that the academics are some of the loudest chaterrers agains SS reform

162 This really is a pretty tough blog to get the feel of.

Yes it is.  I think I came in around the 04 election.  A lot of the old guys from then are gone.  They were a hoot, but they were so quick, and so smart, that it was indeed intimidating.  I honestly think that it takes a while for your mind to slightly warp its thinking enough to "get it" here.   

163

It was suggested (among other things) that Ace had been read the riot act at the Connecticut meetup by former M&Ms who now hang at The H2.  Said riot act was allegedly about how the current commenters are too angry and scared people away.

What's "The H2"?

164 180

Maybe there needs to be an orientation course.

Rule one. The use of the word "cocksucker" is required in every thread.

Rule two.  Posting sober is only allowed for friends of Bill.

Rule Three.  Tip every so often.

That's all I got.

165 191  But of course -- it's for the children plebes!  Dontcha know?

166 The last thing Democrats need in the state of california is being "sided" with the pension mess. Jerry Brown jumped at the Bell opportunity to "demand a serious reform of the pension and payment system of state workers"... when fucking Moonbeam sees the light, its a problem. I think stories like this are stacking up- San Fransisco now has activist groups demanding full disclosure of salaries and pension agreements, San Bernardino County is considering an audit, etc. if Fiorina can exploit this for the national public employee mess, and Whitman exploits it locally, California will have a surprisingly red year.

167 180

Maybe there needs to be an orientation course.

Yeah, it's called read the blog and comments section for...awhile...before posting.  The FAQs sure as fuck aren't helpful.  It took forever for me to figure out "cowbell", "the chicken", and plenty of other AoSHQ-only memes.

heh

This really is a pretty tough blog to get the feel of.  Mainly the comments section.

Posted by: Burn the Witch at July 24, 2010 11:08 AM (fLHQe)

That gives me an idea. Maybe we should just choose a day - say Wednesday - and on that day we all go visit another (lefty) blog and share our joy, our love, and our special memes with them. It worked so well the last time we did it, maybe we should make it a regular feature. Also would make a great stress release.

168 Half soused late at night ?
We were supposed to wait for nightfall ?
Is there a GMT standard for pants optional drunken commenting ?

169 This is a good article. I don't know if I would compare Breitbart with Buckley. Buckley was a giant. Breitbart will be a giant. But Buckley was incomparable.

170 193  Hey, I'm one of the nicest bitches you will ever meet! 

171 #198
That gives me an idea. Maybe we should just choose a day - say Wednesday - and on that day we all go visit another (lefty) blog and share our joy, our love, and our special memes with them. It worked so well the last time we did it, maybe we should make it a regular feature. Also would make a great stress release.


A most excellent idea.  Whacko Wednesday?  Revenge of the Morons?  Trolls are us?  Oh the fun.

172 193 Note to self: Don't piss off unknown jane.

Posted by: Norm Macdonald at July 24, 2010 11:16 AM (GZitp)

 

Au contraire, monsur. Sometimes, that's the only sport here.

173 #194: aka "The Hostages".  Long-time Ace readers who check out a comment thread there will see old favorites like Laura W. and Tushar, among many others.

#201: Yup.  And I don't believe Blazer's wilder accusations, but the part I paraphrased fits well with what Ace has said.

174 A few of things you have written over the past several days have really frosted my cookies. You mentioned that your CT friends have stopped coming because the blog has become too angryÂ…too vitriolicÂ…too mean.

So I missed when this happened.  Is that what you were referring to, curious? 

Two things.  I think that one's level of vitriol is influenced by your circumstances and that of your friends and family, so I think the point about unemployment rates in CT versus elsewhere is completely valid.  My friends who live in the DC-metro area are much more cocooned than I am here in CA.  Also, if you are older - nearing retirement - the whole situation is much more frightening, so age affects things. 

I do think the nature of blogs allows one to spout off more, no doubt about it.  Things that are just biases that we would normally just keep to ourselves tend to bubble up.  For example, one of our regulars really holds anyone without a degree in the hard sciences and/or without scholar-level math skills in low regard and it comes out in 1/5th of his/her comments.  I seriously doubt s/he could function in the real world if s/he let that bias burble out in every interaction with the general public  -- every waiter on the planet would be spitting in his/her food if they knew what s/he was really thinking!  lol

Anyway, I wasn't aware that ace was upset with the blog commenters -- again.  _{Heavy sigh.} 

175

OK, thanks Ian.

 

176

"Yeah, it's called read the blog and comments section for...awhile...before posting."

 

Screw that!  Go forward and git some!

177 #206

I posted this yesterday after my slap down. 
My guess?  Ace's A/C is broken and it's 95 in NYC.

178 Screw that!  Go forward and git some!

Er, what was that address again?

179

 Y-not is sick of packing

Are you going to have time for the meet-up tonight?

I'm looking forward to meeting fellow M/Ms.

180 Posted by: mrp at July 24, 2010 11:08 AM

At the risk of getting hammered -- and not in the good way -- I'm going to say that this story, IMO, simply shows how inbred political discussion on the 'net has become, how much time is spent (wasted) bewailing inside-baseball stories that have minimal impact on the outside (real) world.

There have been "journolist" stories out there long before the age of instant communications. Groups with agendas have always discussed controlling messages, have always worked out tactics before going public.

It used to be done face to face in meetings, or over the phone, or by snail mail. Now, it can be done while sitting at the home computer and waiting for mommy to bring up the milk and cookies.

Every political group has done and will do this, right and left, wacko-lib and conservative. I'm confident that if all Jonah Goldberg's or Ed "Pillsbury Doughboy" Morrissey's emails were made public, evidence of working with others to set/deliver a message could be found.

Do I think that's bad? Not at all. It is human nature at work. They do it, we do it when we can.

I am more concerned by the message itself than how it was created and promoted. The reason is the same as my feeling that what Sherrod does is nowhere near as important as what Osama Obama (who, after all, is responsible for her, responsible for her being in a position where her idiocy matters) does.

Journolist seems to be nothing more than a circle-jerk between a bunch of namby-pamby jackwagons (thank you, GEICO ad!). They could be rendered powerless more quickly by laughing at them, which is what they deserve.

181 Wait...I read the ONT and ....EUREKA!

182

 Maybe we should just choose a day - say Wednesday - and on that day we all go visit another (lefty) blog and share our joy, our love, and our special memes with them.

Well fuck, why not?  They do it all the time.  Hell, they even take it to a whole new level - see: Journolist

183 I'm a County worker and get paid crap. My same job at the State level pays twice what I make, crap x2. Even my boss makes crap.

But, we actually do something worthwhile-ish so I guess it makes sense.

184 I think some of that's a function of the post selection though - if more of the "fun stuff" was posted during the day rather than being consigned to the sidebar or ONT the comments would naturally lighen up.
Posted by: Ian S. at July 24, 2010 11:14 AM

Gee, I think the ONT, which used to have an unofficial rule of no serious topics, became more serious in the past month or so.  The 'topics' used to be just silly stories, but then for a bit some serious stuff about the economy started being linked which led to more anger on the threads.  At least, that was my perception.

Look, certain threads are dominated by certain people.  It depends on the topic and where our interests and expertise reside.  There's no "fixing" that. 

I think the comment section here is still much more tractable and informative than it is at Hot Air.  The reticence some feel to participate may have more to do with the edgy nature of the comments - stylistically speaking - than with the content of the comments. 

185 oh, and my benefits are crap too, so blahblahblah

186 202 193  Hey, I'm one of the nicest bitches you will ever meet! 

Posted by: unknown jane at July 24, 2010 11:19 AM (5/yRG)

You go, Jane -- and don't let the White man keep you down!

187 Our local community government boasted repeatedly last year that they were SO fiscally responsible, they had enough funds to last an entire three months given an economic crisis.

188

204 LOL!  If that's the only sport around here, then things really have gone downhill!

But glad to be of service -- hey, it's a win-win for me.  Can't let other people's opinions and assumptions get you frazzled, imho.

189

The Angry Mob Play Set:

http://tinyurl.com/2fmxvue

 

Posted by: Wm T Sherman at July 24, 2010 10:41 AM (tm15w)

I bookmarked that 'un.

190 Good Morning M&Ms

Are we happy today at last?

I left yesterday when the outside temps dropped down to the low 80s and the posting temps reached the high 100s in the Sherrod racism thread.

Sitting in the porch rocker drinking Jim Beam on a Friday evening is much more enjoyable than a flamewar.

191 Posted by: unknown jane at July 24, 2010 11:19 AM


Ooooooh, I think I love you!

In the words of the immortal Benny Hill: "A girl like that could really hurt a guy -- if he was lucky!"

192

 The reticence some feel to participate may have more to do with the edgy nature of the comments - stylistically speaking - than with the content of the comments. 

I just don't want everybody to find out how unwitty and boring I am!

193 #223

Yeah, except this fucking root canal is killing me.  Go over to HA and watch Cat Shit one for some fun.

194 Yeah, except this fucking root canal is killing me.

LOL, my wife just had a root canal done and she as miserable the whole day. They gave her some pills to take and all they did was make her puke.

But hey, Jim Beam will help root canals as well.

195 But I was happy to learn that the city of Bell, CA has fired all their high paid assholes.

That is kind of funny though because I got a call last night from an old friend of mine from CA who was talking about coming out to visit.

I don't even remember what we talked about since I was into about half the bottle of Beam by then

196 I just don't want everybody to find out how unwitty and boring I am!

lol! 

It took me a while to de-lurk because of the blue language... and I swear like a sailor in real life.  But something about writing it down formed a barrier.  Which I got over! 

No, can't make it to the LA meetup.  I doubt I'd go to anything on the Westside, but really we're down to the wire on the house prep.  It goes on the market this week and we want it to be perfect when it does. 

197 213: Except that a lot of the so-called reported on journo-list do not have any disclaimer to their readers that they ARE a political group in fact they will protest that they are objective reporters. In their minds perhaps they are not 'political', they are part of the 'ruling class' as the spectator article described and that is what drives them, not any loyalty to the DNC, just to the progressive mindset that is crippling the world today.

198 OK, back to the hell that is house prep!  Have a great day, morons!

199  The FAQs sure as fuck aren't helpful.  It took forever for me to figure out "cowbell", "the chicken", and plenty of other AoSHQ-only memes.

heh

This really is a pretty tough blog to get the feel of.  Mainly the comments section.

Posted by: Burn the Witch at July 24, 2010 11:08 AM (fLHQe)

I was absent the night Gator brought in 'gina hands.  No one will 'splain it to me either (though, I fully understand it will be gross).

*sniff*

200 Ugh I need an editor --that should be reporters not reported on post 231

201 My friends, Percocet and wine are working just fine.  Time of another one!

Tooth got infected so I got that to deal with too. 

202

175  Meh, just do what I do -- sit back and get a mental picture going of slowly ripping their intestines out (for starters) while they scream in agony, while you laugh and laugh.

Always makes me feel better and capable of carrying on.

Posted by: unknown jane at July 24, 2010 11:13 AM (5/yRG)

*golf clap*

203 'gina hands

It doesn't (or shouldn't) take long for a Moron or Moronette to figure that one out.

204

Tell it, beedubya.

I've been funemployed since Jan. I spend a lot of time here, mostly lurking, but once in awhile opening my big mouth. Yes, there is a rising tide of anger in our country. But lets not take it out on each other. I would hate to see anything happen to this place and the good people that hang out here. There are a lot of very smart and funny people here and they really help to get through these times. Plus you don't have to be an "insider" to post, like Hot Air. Just come on in, grab a barstool and unleash your inner moron. It's like being 19 and spending time in a good neighborhood bar with the kids you grew up with. Lets not throw that away.

"Ace of Spades. Come for the intelligent conversation, stay for the boobies". 

 

205 Look, this isn't all that complicated. Everyone here to one degree or another is on the same side. None of us is happy with what is going on with the country right now and it is affecting all of us in unique ways. We are all angry about the present and concerned about the future. But, again, we are all on the same side. Ace mentioned a meet up in CT the other day, I was lucky enough to be there. As Ace said, this was a gathering of people who met here and just by commenting here became friends, some, very good friends. People literally came from all over the country just to hang out and have a good time with each other. That's what this place used to be. But, also as Ace said the other day, this place has become increasingly angry and just down right mean. Many of the best commenters have left and started smaller blogs where they can talk about the same things, argue about the same things, but without the anger and hostility toward each other personally. It's a damn shame because many who have left are smart, funny as shit and really nice people. They also know how to argue without it becoming a blood sport. I'm disappointed that many have been driven out of here because it is less enjoyable for me. For ace, it's not just less enjoyable, its a loss of his livelihood. The anger and red on red attacks is costing him money . If you or I get pissed off enough at the tone around here we can leave and go to another blog, ace can't. This is his place and the anger around here is costing him enjoyment, time with his friends and money. Nobody is saying don't argue or disagree. My very first post on this place some time ago was in disagreement with ace. We had a good argument about our positions but we never sank to the level of accusing each other of bad faith or seeing who could out insult the other. That's why I love this place and that's why I kept coming back. You could state your opinion, argue with other commenters or ace, and then go laugh your ass of about Paul Anka. Somebody noted up above that the commenters make up a good part of this blogs value. Absolutely right, and when they are good commenters this place grows exponentially. When they are just here to be nasty pricks the inverse is true. So argue away. Take out your anger by making smart, fact based arguments. Its fun, a great way to get shit off your chest and its also fun for those of us reading the arguments. Just try not to let your arguments turn into personal attacks because again, we are all trying to get to the same place even if we disagree on the best way to get there. If you disagree with ace's take on the Brietbart incident try to remember, ace is a friend and ally of Brietbart. He can disagree with him on a tactic without it becoming a personal attack. And those who of you who disagree with ace's take, try to remember you don't get extra points by calling ace a traitor or a back stabber. In fact, you are doing far worse than you accuse ace of doing. And if none of that makes any sense try this, ace is one of the funniest fucking writers you are ever likely to encounter. He has written some classic stuff here that will literally make you laugh your ass off and it feeds over into the comments. But when this place is 7x24 anger, there's a lot less funny. So if for no other reason, tap the anger down a tad so we can get back to talking a bout Thai tranny hookers, Val-U-Rite vodka, integrity and a good game of corn hole.

206 I don't have time to email.  So I just post with a link, call it off topic and get it out there.  Eventually someone who does have time will send ace an email saying "did you see this" and if it appeals to ace or one of the co bloggers it ends up as a thread.  Sometimes I wonder why some stuff isn't covered.  Like their is an imaginary line that they all won't cross.  But, hey, do you blame them since the next thing that is rumored to get "their attention" is conservative blogs and the internet.  I still dislike Eliot spitzer for making shopping on the internet taxable.  For that alone I will never ever cast any vote for him, ever.  It is a small amount of money, helps people out, but no, eliot wanted to be president so he wanted to bring it on.  

times are odd, really odd.  You aren't sure of motivations.  You feel you can't trust anyone and then you come and post on a blog?  And, even then you read about bloggers' bells ringing and wonder.

207 Percocet and wine are working just fine.

Alcohol You should avoid alcohol while taking Percocet. Alcohol interacts with the narcotic component of Percocet (oxycodone), potentially increasing the risk of serious side effects, such as extreme drowsiness, confusion, memory loss, or difficulty breathing. Alcohol also interacts with the acetaminophen (Tylenol^®) component, possibly increasing the risk of liver damage (see Tylenol and Alcohol).
Kempster better look out with that stuff.

208
Yo-- Public Sector union employees - WE TAX PAYERS PAY YOUR SALARY, YOUR LAVISH BENEFITS and YOUR OVER-THE-TOP PEN$ION$.

Pensions we in the private sector DON'T GET.


Yo Democrats, pay your fucking taxes, assholes.


My guess is these same greedy tax-payer paid jerks don't pay their fair share of taxes.  Want to solve the tax revenue problem in America?  Audit all the democrats.

209
  Been lurking and commenting (occasionally) at this blog since '04,iirc. It would seem that the blog is evolving, which is to be expected. Said evo will take a good path, the political views and participants will ensure that. For people like me, breaking into the comments is pretty hard, not being outgoing by nature.

  The discourse level is damn good, never mind the language and/or irreverence. If you'd like a great contrast, then check LGF--and marvel at the deterioration of a onetime solid blog. Embarassing to admit I once posted there.
 
  In respect to the last few days, and the vitriol level, I kinda think it has something to do with the general state of the nation, and it's prevailing mood. If you truly LOVE this country, why the frustration engendered experiencing  what's going on now WILL come out. It's evident, as I go about my unimportant life in my small town that there's an underlying unease,as though something is bubbling just below the surface. If you watch closely, you can see it.

 So what to do? Just keep on keeping on, change what you can and fuck the rest.

  End of rant, you can laugh at me now.

  .

210 As an economist by training, I can tell the world is all one big market. 

This is clearly the cause of the anger here at AoSHQ.

http://tinyurl.com/38dw7xj

211 #242

Da Huh?

Vic, I am a EMT too.  Really!

Trained professional don't try this at home.  Well, actually do stay home.

212 Posted by: palerider at July 24, 2010 11:41 AM

Once again, I say that IMO collusion is not particularly important here, and certainly neither unknown or not practiced by political wankers of all persuasions.

Rather than worrying that that these pampered little posies had/have a "secret club," it is far more important to demolish their basic message.

People with reasonable intelligence can foresee what the knee-jerk response to anything will be. The "disclaimer" is implied in every word one of these weasels write.

The correct response (again, IMO) is an incessant barrage of facts, and a focus on the central issue(s). Anything less simply plays into the hands of Klein and his little journo-weenies.

That's true of every issue. It's a lesson that used to be taught in school.

213 Well Kemp, Russia is going to double the taxes on cigarettes and Valu-Rite.

Damn, who told them that they needed to be like SC?

214 This is clearly the cause of the anger here at AoSHQ........ I thought this was .

215

AlextheChick,

I am sorry for your loss.

 

Friends in their way are more valuable than family since the debts and favors are all by choice.

 

God bless you and your lost.

216 It seems to me someone approved those three folks' salaries - a city council or whatever - so the "blame" for their paychecks rests there or with the residents of that city who failed to pay attention.

I should have taken Harry Mitchell's advice and attended city council meetings.

For many years, this Texas community's council held group conversations outside of the public council meetings to decide what agenda items to approve and which to vote against or not allow discussion. The community's lawyer protected that unofficial official policy, probably because the charter didn't require any lack of corruption. So unless you were independently wealthy with free time and inclined to sue for open government, what were residents busy raising families to do beyond being involved in the PTA and youth athletic leagues? Only this past year has the community's charter been placed on the ballot with revisions. But NO PUBLIC NOTICE was given in advance that the charter was being revised which included a clause that should the election turnout somehow not determine the public vote, that again the council could deny any further reform in local government vote in a run-off. Sure, blame the local rag that only prints what it's fed. Only voters who show up to vote every time came across the ballot revising the charter. Inbred convoluted politics at the grassroots level motivated us to show up at the conservative caucus that evening. Even after the election and revisions to the charter, nothing published in the local rags mentioning alterations.

217 Sitting in the porch rocker drinking Jim Beam on a Friday evening is much more enjoyable than a flamewar.

Posted by: Vic at July 24, 2010 11:30 AM (/jbAw)

Vic, WTH?  Aren't you in SC?  The temp in Richmond at midnight was 89 degrees last night!

218 Posted by: irongrampa at July 24, 2010 11:53 AM

This.

If I disagree with, say, Vic (and I'm just pullin' a name out of my butt here), I'd rather say my piece and read his response. Repeat as necessary.

Calling him a *bleep* or an ignorant *bleeper-bleeper* doesn't advance the cause. It doesn't even constructively fill the void between boobies and hoboes.

219 Posted by: Bill D. Cat at July 24, 2010 12:01 PM (NuAIL)

Arrrrgggg, my eyes, my eyes,

my eyes need a root canal

Kemp quick! Gimme some of that percocet and alcohol!

Re: extreme drowsiness, confusion, memory loss, or difficulty breathing.

I can put up with the rest of the stuff as long as I get the memory loss.

220 249 This is clearly the cause of the anger here at AoSHQ........


I thought this was .

My eyes my eyes, get the beach.  That is the ugliest camel toe I've ever seen.

221

253 Scribbler,

While I agree, I would note that the trouble with the Sherrod posts getting so heated is the whole "r" bomb and double and triple standards contined therein.  We are devolving back towards tribalism.  The failure to deal with that reality, or worse in my opinion blindly embracing it is why tempers are running so hot.

Unless a poster is truly at peace with themselves on the "you be racist" wars it is rather a hot button and like mainlining meth on a heart.

222 Vic,

I might have to double down to have the memory loss!

223

Tooth got infected so I got that to deal with too. 

Careful Kemp. Don't let them amputate...

224

255 Kemp,

in the interests of forum harmony I refrained from wishing the poster hell on forcing me to look at Ms O'Donuts holiest of holies....now I am glad someone else had the courage to say, "have you no shame sir?  have you no shame?"

225 When I was a kid my mom taught me that it is wholly rude to speak in a language in front of others if they don't understand the language.  The posts from spammers in english are fine, the predominant language here is english but the posts in other languages, are just rude.

226 Vic, WTH?  Aren't you in SC?  The temp in Richmond at midnight was 89 degrees last night!

It was down to the low 80s here just after sundown. That was remarkable since it was near a hundred a few hours before.

227

226/227

Jebus, I had a root canal done Thursday.  What's going on?  Mass root canals?  This was about my one-millionth root canal.  I should get some green stamps at this point or at least a free gallon of gas.

Anyhoo, to show you how bad the economy is -- and it doesn't sound nearly as bad in VA -- I went to a new endodontist to have him zero in on the exact tooth since the pain was all over.  He not only found it, he started in on the procedure before even asking if I had the time to do it that day.  And to boot, I called that morning for an appt thinking they'd give me one a week or two later and then schedule the actual procedure a week or two after that, but I was good to go -- in a single morning!

228

What's "The H2"?

Posted by: Jim in San Diego at July 24, 2010 11:16 AM (

Do the google

229

251 Maverick muse,

 

the proble I have with the mini fishwraps is they tend to wind up enjoying being near "the powerful" so they paint anyone who does silently watch and feed them data on how much corruption may or may not be going on as "psycho crankpots".....

my time living in our condo at Myrtle beach opened my eyes to how peyton place things can get.

230

I just don't want everybody to find out how unwitty and boring I am!

Posted by: Tunafish at July 24, 2010 11:31 AM (pXreY)

 

(yawn)

231 #262

Another guy in my office had one too.  My dentist seems to think all this "hope and change" and fucking fun employment is making people grind their teeth more, putting pressure on them and fucking them up.

I know I grind.

232

Anyhoo, to show you how bad the economy ...-- in a single morning!

I used to have a three week turnaround in my repair business a few years ago, Now I'm working on stuff the same day it comes in.

233

263,

 

H2, hostages, ace of spades does the trick

234 If it wasn't the cause of all the anger around here , it should be .

235

also looking at the nazoomba pics over there I'll say this in defense of angry posters.....

 

yeah it can be unpleasant, yeah it is ace's sandbox, but the humor thing alone didn't stop O'juggsy from winning in '08 and it will not mobilize enough to flip things in '10 and or '12 IMHO....focused anger is good, attacking media double standards whenever possible is good, maniacal forthing not so good.

236

Posted by: sven10077 at July 24, 2010 12:14 PM

Hmmm..."proof of life" password protected

237 AlextheChick,
for you and whom you've lost,

May the road rise to meet you.
May the wind be always at your back.
May the sun shine warm upon your face;
the rains fall soft upon your fields and until we meet again,
may God hold you in the palm of His hand.

238 Wow, no more tonsils and and feet, its root canal time baby!

The failure to deal with that reality, or worse in my opinion blindly embracing it is why tempers are running so hot.

Yes, we are all pissed at politics in today's environment but it doesn't help that environment to call Drew a bunch of names because he excuses the racist ramblings of a scrunt and blames it on the "racist South", even if he has never been to the South.

It is much better to politely challenge his beliefs and point out where he is wrong than to yell "stupid c***ksucker" over and over.

239

271 MM,

 

didn't say I posted....said I found it.

I don't see what Blazer was so histrionic about last evening, but to be fair i must admit I have not perused it too deeply....

it is a bit cotton candy for my tastes.

240 Posted by: sven10077 at July 24, 2010 12:07 PM

That's why I freely admit to a certain amount of racism in my soul.

It just doesn't happen to be the same kind of racism displayed by Zombie Exalted Cyclops, Strom "shoulda been president" Thurmond, Eric Shabazz Holder or Shirley Sherrod. Or Osama Obama.

Let he who has never used the so-called "n-word" cast the first stone in the theoretical "racist" argument. That's why I don't cast stones.

But I will cast stones when racism becomes an act and not a thought. And it doesn't matter to me if the victim of racist actions are persons-of-dark-hued-skin-who-might-have-ancestral-roots-in-Africa or cracks whom the racist hates every iota of. It's all disgusting.

If anyone believes discrimination is justified against Nanzi Pelosi, Harry Reid or the Traitor-in-Chief, that's not racism. It's simply good sense.

241 I thought this was .

My testicles just pulled so far up inside, I think they're my tonsils.

242

273 Vic,

 

and that is what I personally did in the what 1300 post thread on saint Sherry the other evening....

what humors a lot of folks about Drew v Ace is Ace is castigated for being like the monolith from 2001 once his mind is made up and he got the gag about Sherrod being a likely bigot and called her out on it.....

Drew oon the other hand doubled down and basically said short of blowing up a school bus of albino kids she couldn't be racist since her past(which is unverified or uninvestigated by the media mind you) exonerates her....

I know betwixt the two whom I value more.

243 Hmmm..."proof of life" password protected

Because it's pictures of all our ugly mugs. Well, they're not all ugly ... the chicks are hot ... but wiserbud?

244 I know I grind.

Posted by: Kemp at July 24, 2010 12:12 PM (2+9Yx)

I'm a world-class "bruxer."  Wonder if there's any correlation that Delta Dental will only pay for new night guards every five years?  It used to be every year or two.  My gen dentist said some people chew through them every six months.

245 cracks

Crackas, damnit.

I hate every iota of my friggin' tying problems....

246 I don't see what Blazer was so histrionic about last evening, but to be fair i must admit I have not perused it too deeply....

I just went through the ONT.  Glad I skipped it last night.  Was Blazer permanently tossed or did Maet just delete his shit until he passed out?  Blazer's not a bad guy at all, I lke him a lot in fact, but I think he was shitfaced and acting the fool.

247 OT but important 5 US troops KIA and 2 MISSING in Afganistan.

248

275 Scribbler,

 

essentially agree...

 

will add my rabid hate for the race hustlers is more about their making a cohesive American unit impossible forever....they are the worst sort of extortionists and in my darker hours I think the NAACP and NBPP should face the same RICO charges the KKK and Neo-Nazis do.

249

Big deal they resign collect a fat pension with benefits, and move into a consulting job as soon as things quiet down.

250

281 HM,

I hope Maet just tossed him from the bar and didn't rip up his tab card but I don't know......

Had Blazer posted as he did sober and with purpose I can't see much issue with him being tossed more permanent like sadly.

251 tying

Typing!

I have an excuse: Fucks News just showed a clip of Nanzi Pelosi and Osama Obama speaking to some "netroots" group.

Fuckfuckfuckityfuck.

Posting now interrupted for a quick trip to pray before the porcelain alter.

Can this really be the country I love?

252 Drew oon the other hand doubled down and basically said short of blowing up a school bus of albino kids she couldn't be racist since her past(which is unverified or uninvestigated by the media mind you) exonerates her.

That is what I tried to challenge him on, as well as the MFM stereotypes of the South, but as I was doing it one of the other posters had to chime in and go over the top in a personal way.

I felt like I had started a blood war so I left and got drunk instead.

But I still keep seeing that afor-posted camel toe!

Damn you Bill D.!

253 Had Blazer posted as he did sober and with purpose I can't see much issue with him being tossed more permanent like sadly.

I could tell he had a lot of shit deleted just by Editor's comments back at him.

I can only assume he was the livin' the Moron HighLife^TM at the edges of consciousness.

254 but I think he was shitfaced and acting the fool

WTF is with that comment?  No one posts here shit faced.

Totally fucked up is what I am talking about!

Who would know?

255 284 Big deal they resign collect a fat pension with benefits, and move into a consulting job as soon as things quiet down.

I wish there was a way in which we could peacefully & ethically demand that our 'public servants' be paid lesser wages than their current salaries. To see the total disconnect between their lifestyles & ours is rather disheartening, & it would seem they can no longer understand our troubles because they are so far "above that", salary-wise.

256 I don't see what Blazer was so histrionic about last evening, but to be fair i must admit I have not perused it too deeply....

A little backstory's probably in order. Blazer has hung out at the H2 a little and hasn't ever been able to really fit in, mainly because he doesn't take the advice someone offered here, which is that you need to read the comments and get a feel for the place before posting your own comments that make you look like a dick.

That's especially true at the H2, where many of us know each other IRL.

I missed the part of the CT meetup where anyone was bitching at Ace, but hell, I completely missed JackStraw too. What I will say is that if you read through any of the H2 post-meetup threads, you'll see a lot of laughing and comments from people who had a great time enjoying each other's company over the weekend and zero mentions of anything about AoSHQ, good or bad.

257 Posted by: Herr Morgenholz at July 24, 2010 12:23 PM (UBQGM)

I haven't even opened the ONT, did Blazer get the bannhammer? 

He was kinda outspoken on the "racism" thread yesterday as well, but he wasn't the worst one.

258 That is what I tried to challenge him on, as well as the MFM stereotypes of the South,

So are you or are you not still banging your sister?

I love the South.  Can't get Frau to move there, because it's all "hot and icky".  Uh, honey, it's 95 degrees with 80% humidity in Ohio.  What's the diff?

I should try asking her in mid February when it's 10 degrees and we're snowed in at the house and I have to deliver the damn kid myself.

259 Breaking News:
Fox reports 10 killed, 15 injured in Germany after blast at something called the Love Parade.

260

292 Vic,

if he did get the Banhammer it was not for his actions with Drew it would have been for his refusal to quit trying to horsewhisper Ace about H2.

 

I happen to disagree with Ace's decision on allowing the H2 crowd editorial oversight of the board if that is in fact(i don't know conretely) what is going on but it *is* Ace's perogative.

261 H2?

I did the Google.  So you guys all own Hummers?

WTF is H2?

262

291 Andy,

Thanks, sincerely.

I have little problem with the H2 folks going on their own or as an adjunct, I would ask several of them and I know why they feel the need to try to turn this into a union shop with maximum deference to seniority.

263

294 Guy fawkes,

"means peace" update....thanks

264 288 I could tell he had a lot of shit deleted just by Editor's comments back at him.

I can only assume he was the livin' the Moron HighLife^TM at the edges of consciousness.

He was told to behave himself, & was instead mouthing-off at Maet. Otherwise, I could understand a few of his complaints (though not-so-much at Ace), but he wasn't making them well.

265

296 kemp,

I gave the correct recipe to find it in bing upthread aways...it is in  my view nothing worth getting worked up over.

266 That's especially true at the H2, where many of us know each other IRL.

I read there, and have commented a few times, but it is clearly such an extraordinarily tight group that "outsiders" would have a very difficult time being accepted.  Not unfriendly at all, or anything like that, but it's not really a "public blog" like this place is.  It's funny as hell, and I recognize practically everybody there from here, but very "inside baseball".

267 Is this the H2.  It's old but funny. Pixy's attempt at a new site?

http://tinyurl.com/2fubqn7

268 Kemp: click Andy's name on comment 291.

269 Is this the Over Weekend Thread?

270

293 HM,

 

I missed the North teribly when I was in the south, but I love the south particularly texas.

If the nation were manned by people like those in leesville louisiana, killeen texas, and sumter SC there'd be NO troubles.

271 Uh, honey, it's 95 degrees with 80% humidity in Ohio.  What's the diff?

LOL, Herr the diff is that it was 99.4°F with 80% humidity here at 15:30 yesterday.

Myself, I am trying to talk wifey into moving to Worland, WY. Gets hot there in the summer too but humidity is low.  Problem is the Winter. Wifey doesn't like -15°F.

272

That's why I freely admit to a certain amount of racism in my soul

I refuse to buy into the "It's racism" BS if one happens to notice that many of the values expressed in the black community and rap music are self destructive and harmful - mostly to themselves.  But they tar people like Larry Elder with this brush all the same.

It's not racist.

273 Posted by: sven10077 at July 24, 2010 12:35 PM

So why not just bite the bullet and post a freekin' link?

Some of us out here are curious about this "H2" place. Can anyone play, or is it another "Journolist" sekret klub for the hip kidz?

274 Love Parade

Maybe some implants exploded

275

308 Scribbler,

heh...hold on a sec

http://tinyurl.com/d54t5r

276 Herr the diff is that it was 99.4°F with 80% humidity

So she'd just move 4.4% slower on the way to the fridge to get me my beer.

I am trying to talk wifey into moving to Worland, WY

I spent a week in Lander several years ago.  Truly love the "cold desert" areas of the west.

277 So why not just bite the bullet and post a freekin' link?

Some of us out here are curious about this "H2" place. Can anyone play, or is it another "Journolist" sekret klub for the hip kidz?

Click my name. Pool's open.

278 #300

H2?  I found it, no wonder Blazer is having a hard time fitting in.

http://tinyurl.com/3x44ouh

279 please note I am not a poster there, and in my opinion Blazer trying to act as though it is a cabal is unfair

280

312,

well it is very much a perk when one can segue between social styles.

281
Hostages:  http://tinyurl.com/d54t5r

282 I highly recommend H2's boob-pictures thread, incidentally.  That's the sort of thing that would be welcome here if it wouldn't get Ace in trouble with advertisers.

283 Gabe has a new thread up.

284 Bill D. Cat at July 24, 2010 12:01 PM (NuAIL)

You bastard.

285

307 Tunafish,

the black comminity is in a very toxic relationship cycle....

they have gotten what they wanted largely through misbehavior and lobbying and now when the majority of the majority are finally saying "enough" they are douibling down in anger rather than taking a heartfelt self-critical analysis of where they are at.

They can either learn to crank down their rhetoric or watch the counter-rhetoric start cranking up.

 

Their choice.

286 Gabe has a new thread up.

Posted by: Vic at July 24, 2010 12:46 PM (/jbAw)

I'm afraid to look.

287 More Camel Toes?

288 Posted by: Tunafish at July 24, 2010 12:38 PM

Tuna -- if someone like Elder disses racial stupidity (a better example might be Sowell or Williams, since Elder is, IMO, mostly a screechy attention whore), it's worse when a paleface/honky/cracka like me voices the same opinions or agrees when a person-of-dusky-hue speaks out.

I consider myself a "racist" because I think everyone is, to a greater or lesser extent. It how people are.

It doesn't manifest itself in interaction with other people. But there are times, late at night, when I relish the thought of calling Osama Obama a belittling "racist" epithet to his face. No, not the worst one; just one of the demeaning words.

289 alexthechick, Damn, that sucks. Stay strong. You will be able to enjoy good memories later.

290 >>I missed the part of the CT meetup where anyone was bitching at Ace, but hell, I completely missed JackStraw too. Yea, I looked for you, too. I could only be there for the day on Saturday, I had a prior commitment I couldn't get out of. But I had a great time in the short amount of time I was there. And no, nobody was bitching at ace or making comments about anyone. I just read Blazer's comments on the over night thread and he is totally off base.

291

Because it's pictures of all our ugly mugs.

Yeah...and that's a problem why?

292

323 scribbler,

I'd wait for him to go on one of his "when white chooses right" rants and then say "why thank you mocha Jesus"

293 Click my name. Pool's open.

Posted by: Andy at July 24, 2010 12:42 PM (pRbtk)

I really don't want another site to read since I spend WAY too much time at the computer as it is (like now).  But I'm curious....what's the origin of that site?  Who started it?  I'm also surprised that it's never been mentioned here before...unless I missed it, which is entirely possible.

To sum up, I'm just being nosy.

294 I don't use the n-word though God knows it was common in my youth and locale.  I have dark hued friends who would open their door at 3 AM if I needed a place to crash.  I call them "decendants of unwilling immigrants".  They, however, have no compunction about tossing the word around about others or at me if deserved.

295

A lot of very, very smart people here, and the comments section is the rowdiest mosh pit around. 

Herr, this is the predominate reason I come back, not as often as I'd like, but as often as I can. You are right, it is intimidating. I lurked for quite some time, before I chose to comment.

There are a lot of truly 'sick'  (that, is the highest of compliments, btw) minds here, and I cannot think of a better place to come, and release the hounds, so to speak.

 

296 Posted by: sven10077 at July 24, 2010 12:41 PM

Thankyewthankyew!

297 And no, nobody was bitching at ace or making comments about anyone. I just read Blazer's comments on the over night thread and he is totally off base.

Posted by: JackStraw at July 24, 2010 12:48 PM (VW9/y)

Jack, the comment about the CT meetup and people complaining to Ace about the tone here came from Ace in one of the Sherrod threads.

298

332 Tami,

 

which is true, of course this goes back to "perceptions"....

Ace is very sensitive about how his blog is seen it is his work after all he may have perceived more angst about it from the CT morons than they intended to sling.....

299

331 Scribbler,

 

hey we're all in this together.

300 332 Jack, the comment about the CT meetup and people complaining to Ace about the tone here came from Ace in one of the Sherrod threads.

Yes. It was here, Comment 531. Considering it was said when angry, I'm not sure how much stock I put into it.

301

335 80's baby,

 

yeah I agree I think he was letting his concerns speak louder than he would ordinarily have let out.

302 Just back from The Hostages. All those old names. That's where they went. I think we are watching speciation in action.

303 Maybe people have to just post the way they speak in real life.  I remember as a kid going with my great grand father to the barber shop.  It wasn't just the haircut he went for, it was the camaraderie.  And, there was nothing, nothing PC about it.  No subject was taboo and there was a lot of shouting and discussing politics but it was real.  those guys nowadays would be considered outcasts.   the problem really is the fact that we have stopped talking to one another in real life.  You only talk to your family and close friends about stuff that really matters.  Everyone else gets a pleasant hello and a "rotten day" or "beautiful day".   Cause really you are afraid to say anything, anything that could be misconstrued as controversial out there.  Everyone is self censoring so really the only time people think they can have real conversations, other than with family and close friends, is on a blog.  One of my friends started reading here.  He sent me a message "I know why you like that place, even though it seems to be filled with conservatives (lol), it's because it's the "Cheers" of the internet".   I thought about it, maybe he's right.

304 Jack, the comment about the CT meetup and people complaining to Ace about the tone here came from Ace in one of the Sherrod threads. Yea, I saw it and as I said up above I was fortunate enough to attend the CT meetup and unfortunately, I understand exactly what ace is talking about. I was struck by how many people were having a great time just hanging out and shooting the shit and then disappointed when I realized that aside from a couple others I was one of the few that still comments here pretty regularly. But I think a lot of people are misinterpreting what ace was saying. Blazer seems to have been stating the furtherest extreme of that wrong interpretation last night. There is no deep conspiracy and I don't think there is any sense of new versus old commenters. A lot of people left here not because they felt superior but because the tone of the comments changed. It's not just The Hostages, this place has spawned many blogs. I don't think everyone left just because of the tone. Some who left are pretty damn funny in their own right and wanted to make their own place or some wanted to concentrate on a certain area. But a lot have left because the tone in the comments has become increasingly angry. Not just in the last couple months, it's longer than that. And much of that anger gets directed at ace. I was struck over the last couple days at how many people called ace a RINO or a back stabber or whatever because he offered a minor criticism of the *way* Breitbart released the info on Sherrod. Many seemed to miss the irony of slamming a guy on our side who has been here posting on this shit for years because he was making a minor critique of, er, a guy on our side. Disagree with ace? Fine, have at it. But a RINO back stabber? That's just stupid and when it goes on and on and on it ruins threads and makes some people go find another place where they don't have to get insulted by people on their own team just for having a minor disagreement. Don't get me wrong, there are always arguments, particularly when the subject is the current state of affairs which none of us is happy about. It would be nice if some could dial down the personal vitriol is all.

305 Posted by: hg at July 24, 2010 01:19 PM (6/4xI)

Does anyone on here even speak this language?  So why post in this language if no one can read it anyway?  It becomes a waste of band width.

306 That's just stupid and when it goes on and on and on it ruins threads and makes some people go find another place where they don't have to get insulted by people on their own team just for having a minor disagreement.

Amen brother

307 341 Does anyone on here even speak this language?  So why post in this language if no one can read it anyway?  It becomes a waste of band width.

That spammer seems attracted to this site, for some odd reason. Sometimes it even posts in rainbow colours.

308 "343 341 Does anyone on here even speak this language?  So why post in this language if no one can read it anyway?  It becomes a waste of band width.

That spammer seems attracted to this site, for some odd reason. Sometimes it even posts in rainbow colours.

Posted by:  Miss 80's baby at July 24, 2010 01:25 PM (LUaw0)"

The problem is, if no one reads the language, then there is no one to vet the comments.  The spammer could be saying anything.  It could be funny, non controversial stuff or it could be something else.  Something in plain sight, on Ace's blog. 

309

All I know is this: I come here to read about news and opinions -- a lot of which I won't find on MFM sites; I also get the chance to join in discussion about such things that I can't get anywhere else (my family hold much the same opinions as I do, so no real debate there; and on the other forum I frequent politics isn't the main topic, although poking lefty progs and sheeple is fun, it isn't enlightening at all and quickly grows old); and I at least know the commenters here -- the familiarity is nice and the atmosphere does foster that.

I took a look at "Hostages" site -- it does seem more like a clubhouse type thing, and I'm not a member (I'm not really a member here), so too "familiar" for an unfamiliar person.  I wish some of the people there who I recognize would come back and post here...maybe it would be nice if we could all go back to a happy balance.

Or I'll just find someplace new, or just forget about going to political sites...they've all gotten very angry and cliquish as of late.  People are starting to pick sides and get in their own little, exclusive groups -- sign of the times if you ask me...and the times are not good...

310

I have a serious question: when I ask if I'm too worried or seeing too much tyranny, I have not been shouted down or even disagreed with - am I missing disagreements and/or condemnation when I read the lack of responses?

It has been my assertion that the hard Left (international, petit, and national socialism cultists) have been inadvertently pushing us to civil war because they have no concept of Americanism - the common values of traditional liberal and conservative thought in the US. They think they can cow and control us, but when a certain point is reached that assumption is possibly the most unwise one can have. Americans tend to not lose their collective, national temper often. But when we do as a culture, normal weirdos like you and me can see it from far off.

That's where I think we are and all I've been saying is that it looks inevitable. I don't think the Union can survive the Hard Left. Barring some reaction to something national that somehow the Media would not spike, I can't see our current situation being resolved without at best a peaceful parting of ways.

Does that mean I've been one of those "revolution" shouters? I didn't intend to do so if that is the case. I merely have been asking if I'm seeing chupacabras in my oatmeal. So far all I've got is a handful saying their cereal bowls too have strange footprints in them (to extend an already overextended metaphor about cryptids and grains)

311 Honestly, I'm beginning to think that someone yelling and getting angry on a blog is vastly preferable to them getting angry and yelling in real life.  Lately I've seen people lose it in places like target and wally mart.  Everyone just stares and backs away.  Then, the manager comes along with the "please be quiet what can I help you with" subtle threat.  I think everyone is on edge there is just too much going on and there is no time for the niceties and understanding.  I find myself being addressed in places like wally mart.  I said to some poor woman the other day "yeah I know, it's tough out there".  I thought she was going to start to cry so I talked with her a few minutes.  About dumb women stuff.  I made her laugh.  Yeah I was late, and people were pissed but so what.  I think just connecting on the stupid human level with that woman was more important.

312

Does anyone on here even speak this language?  So why post in this language if no one can read it anyway?  It becomes a waste of band width.

Every link references an Arabic-specific spelling of an Arabic-centric concept, such as Mecca (makkah), Arar (city in Northern Saudi) etc.

Therefore I'm sure it is Portuguese.

313

beedubya said: "I donÂ’t know your financial situation. I donÂ’t know how you are being personally affected by the economic “situation”. I kinda get the idea that this blog is your primary, if not your sole source, of income. Now I know how expensive NYC is to live in. I do business there a lot. I have been offered jobs in the past where I would have to move there,  but turned them down because the high cost of living. Is the blog money that good? What IÂ’m getting at is that I suspect that maybe family money helps out.  If IÂ’m wrongÂ…tell me. But out hereÂ…things are really shitty."

Now, this is highly rude.  You can't go around making assumptions about other people to fit your own personal thesis, so that you can "justify" your criticism.  You're implying here that Ace gets $$ from his fam, therefore he doesn't "understand" the poor, poor people you know in your life, and how that pisses you off. You think that, by justifying your position with assumptions about a person of whom you admittedly know little about, you get to be a scold.  No, you don't..

I have to say that this is what's making me uncomfortable coming here.  The Arts and Humanities always criticized--well, I think there's enough room in the life of a person to have an appreciation for John Donne's poetry.  All public servants are greedy Dems making bazillions in money--no, go look up the salaries of the average fed at OPM.  No, we're not.  No, not even "we're all Dems!"  Hell, I don't even know what you'd allow me to do to make a living, since I'm a cripple and can't be a soldier or build a house or plow the back forty.  I'm going to have to make a living with my brain, not my brawn.  Can't be a teacher, because then I'm a commie fiend indoctrinating the young and making them all pod people...

Please stop shouting.  Please stop making wild generalizations.  Please stop making broad assumptions.  And please stop claiming that all black people want to get you!  No, most want to just make a living!

314 Posted by: Quint&Jessel, Sea of Azof, Bly, UK at July 24, 2010 02:05 PM (1kwr2)

wow for you guys to be making posts like this means that I must have missed an awful lot on here.  I've sort of felt this was a tolerant, not bigoted bunch and yet you appear to be seeing the opposite.

315

Sometime during the late 90's and early 2000's a wave of gaming public employee salaries for the top few swept across the country, as noted by the WSJ.  It benefited only a few insider top administrator types in all departments, especially among the education, administration, finance, police and fire employees.  It was an insider game that allowed these select few to change the rules of retirement so that they could retire based upon only their last couple of years, without averaging the previous years, and giving themselves gigantic salaries during these years, lowering the amount of years of age and service required for retirement for themselves, and other games.  As a result, some public employees who had worked for 20 years for meager wages were forced to work an extra two years to pay for these hogs who'd been there for only two three to five, some had to be laid off, all saw huge increases in health care costs, and attritition forced many into an unsustainable workload.  The plight of the public worker is not at all what the public thinks it is, and these few deserve jail time for what they have done to the public employees and to the public.  They shall get theirs in this life or the next.

316

Kemp:" All state and federal employees are exempt from SS.  They can opt in if they want.

Just the sheep get sheared."

That's news to me, since I HAVE to pay SS.   Where'd you find this out? 

317  Posted by: Quint&Jessel, Sea of Azof, Bly, UK at July 24, 2010 02:05 PM (1kwr2)

+1

318 That's news to me, since I HAVE to pay SS.   Where'd you find this out?

Yup. Myth. Like the claim that all an alien has to do is squirt out an "anchor baby" and they can't be deported. Stuff people believe because they want to believe it, not because it's true.

319 349 Maybe mentioning it would be a good thing, then, since I learned a lot from that post. As for the rest of your feelings, understandable. My dad's in an "evil industry" & I myself am earning a post-grad teaching certificate. People make many assumptions about both of those, b/c they only know what they've heard. Even if it's shouting into the wind, raising legitimate points is a good thing. JMO.

320

Quint&Jessel;

You are too excited. No one I have read on here has ever implied that some race was out to get some other race. That's for hard left blogs where they encourage that sort of identification and grievance-based separation akin to segregation. Also hello fellow crippled up person! I do accounting. It is wonderful, allows you to be steadfastly moral and ethical because the professional standards support you in doing so. Check it out.

Myself, I do accounting for charter schools. I bump into the government versus the private sector all the time. The problem is not that "every public employee" is blah-blah, but that for the most part the purse strings are held by career entitlement-centric anti-consitutional leftists. They are far more numerous in certain positions because of the power and money. They are also in many other positions of trust and influence far beyond their number - and in my opinion if they have such low opinions of the limits placed on goverment by the Contitution then they should definitely be replaced with better employees.

Pensions, now, are not sustainable and they've made it so. There is no possible way to sustain our current pension systems nationwide without us either having to bankrupt ourselves within the next few years or doing a Roman Empire and actually switching over to Conquer & Pillage mode. Neither is acceptable and so when we talk about cutting pensions to all public servants, well, being a civil servant means necessarily that you are sacrificing something for the job - that being high pay compared to the private sector. Don't take comments intended to address this point as being directed at you personally.

321

350  Nah, it's been going on for a while and the rhetoric has been ramped up -- people, as you noted, are stressed.

We're all guilty of it...because everybody is a bit of a bigot and everybody makes generalized assumptions, and everybody is a bit of a nasty prick.  Now, there's a fine line between just garden variety stuff like that and honest to God nasty shit -- but it's hard to tell on the internet, because you don't really know the person talking.  So people react like it's full blown (and yeah, sometimes it's warranted, but it's hard to say).  People act like internet discussions are exactly the same as face to face get togthers with old friends and acquaintences -- and then they get their feelings hurt.

Given the general tone of the country (hell, the world), this probably isn't helping so much.

322 From Social Security Online:

All States, including the 50 states, Puerto Rico, the Virgin Islands, and approximately 60 interstate instrumentalities have a Section 218 Agreement with SSA. These agreements allow the States, if they desire, to provide Social Security and Medicare Hospital Insurance (HI) or Medicare HI-only coverage for public employees.

and

Section 218 Agreements cover positions not individuals. If the position is covered for Social Security and Medicare under a Section 218 Agreement, then any employee filling that position is subject to Social Security and Medicare taxes. Employees covered under a Section 218 Agreement have the same coverage and benefit rights as employees in the private sector.

Public employees are brought under a Section 218 Agreement in groups known as coverage groups. There are two basic coverage groups: absolute coverage groups and retirement system coverage groups. An absolute coverage group is composed of employees whose positions are not covered under a public retirement system. A retirement system coverage group is composed of employees whose positions are covered under a public retirement system.

A public retirement system may be covered under a Section 218 Agreement only after a referendum is held. All States are authorized to use the majority vote referendum process. If a majority of all the eligible members vote in favor of coverage, all current and future employees in positions under the retirement system will be covered.

In addition to the majority vote referendum procedure, certain States and all interstate instrumentalities are authorized to divide a retirement system based on whether the employees in positions under the retirement system want coverage. Under the divided vote referendum, only those employees who vote "yes" and all future employees will be covered. Members who vote "no" are not covered as long as they maintain continuous employment in a position within the same public retirement system. Although the referendum itself is a State matter, Section 218 of the Act requires that certain conditions be met.

and, finally,

Can a public employee voluntarily pay Social Security taxes without a Section 218 Agreement?

No. The employing public entity must have a Section 218 Agreement that covers the employee's services or the services must be covered under the mandatory coverage rules. It is not possible to pay Social Security taxes voluntarily on work that is not covered for Social Security under the terms of the Social Security Act and the Internal Revenue Code.

323 Stuff people believe because they want to believe it, not because it's true.

Gabe, it DID use to be true. At one time (and not a long time ago) federal employees were not in the SS system. They had their own retirement system. 

324

Yup. Myth.

Correction, Gabe. Partially true. In some states I know for certain (because I've had to convert - personally - their entire fiscal year payroll setups and procedures) that school districts can individually petition to allow their employees who are covered by state retiree healh care programs to opt out of Medicare. Those states I'm certain of are Arizona, New Mexico, Texas, California and Kansas. I have no other personal knowledge if this is applicable to any other state and/or governmental organization.  Oh, and FICA is also handled in the same manner for certain groups of employees already covered by a state-funded retirement pension. At least for educators (k-12 and state university/college).

325 Alexthechick, I am sorry for your loss.

326

I thought this was .
Remind me to never click on a link like that again.  Where's a straight razor when I need it?

327

Jackstraw, ditto.

Also it was a privilege to meet you.  And your namesake too.

 

328

Oh shit, I just saw the thing about alexthechick's friend.

 

Damn.  Damn.

 

I'm so sorry hon.  Truly.  You're in my thoughts.

329  Gabe, it DID use to be true. At one time (and not a long time ago) federal employees were not in the SS system. They had their own retirement system.

When was that? 'Cause I don't think it was any time in my lifetime.

330 When was that? 'Cause I don't think it was any time in my lifetime.

Posted by: Gabriel Malor at July 24, 2010 02:37 PM (1TvCg)

Did you not read my comment above?  Let me paste part of it for you, again:

Can a public employee voluntarily pay Social Security taxes without a Section 218 Agreement?

No. The employing public entity must have a Section 218 Agreement that covers the employee's services or the services must be covered under the mandatory coverage rules. It is not possible to pay Social Security taxes voluntarily on work that is not covered for Social Security under the terms of the Social Security Act and the Internal Revenue Code.

331 Ah. Quoting:

The idea that U.S. lawmakers don't pay into Social Security is 25 years out of date. Before 1984, U.S. representatives and senators -- like all other federal employees -- weren't covered by Social Security and didn't pay into the system. Congress passed a law in 1983, which took effect the next year, requiring all of its members (and all federal employees hired after that year) to participate in the system.

http://is.gd/dEJXc

Okay, so I was alive, but in diapers.

332  progressoverpeace, your link applies to state public employees, not federal employees. Kemp wrote "All state and federal employees are exempt from SS.  They can opt in if they want."

As Inspector Asshole wrote, that's partially true. (And partially myth.)

333

"wow for you guys to be making posts like this means that I must have missed an awful lot on here.  I've sort of felt this was a tolerant, not bigoted bunch and yet you appear to be seeing the opposite."

Well, I was reading the Sherrod post and just had to leave.  I mean, people were yelling at Ace and carrying on.  I know that, as far as our little group of public servants go, we're upset with her because we really strive to treat all the citizens equally, and she made us look bad.  But the feeling of a race war I got from that thread...!  I was a bit upset.

334

progressoverpeace, your link applies to state public employees, not federal employees. Kemp wrote "All state and federal employees are exempt from SS.  They can opt in if they want."

As Inspector Asshole wrote, that's partially true. (And partially myth.)

When I was a mailman we had our own private retirement pgm. I didn't pay a cent into SS the whole time.

335 progressoverpeace, your link applies to state public employees, not federal employees.

Evidently, Section 218 is pretty old, too.

336 Gabe I remember it well because my older brother was working at a DOD site at the time and was royally pissed when the changeover occurred.

337 And I think that for federal employees it was later than 1984 but I can not remember the exact year.

338

Inspector A-hole said,"Also hello fellow crippled up person! I do accounting. It is wonderful, allows you to be steadfastly moral and ethical because the professional standards support you in doing so. Check it out."

I have to laugh...do you also get those strange accounting jokes we do?  Oh, my...accounting...

339 But the feeling of a race war I got from that thread...!  I was a bit upset.

Posted by: Quint&Jessel, Sea of Azof, Bly, UK at July 24, 2010 02:44 PM (1kwr2)

The left has pushed to partition society along tribal boundaries and to actively pursue tribalist politics and governance.  They have pretty much won that battle.  The field is prepared by them, according to that template.

The Precedent has been trying to foment racial animus since the day he slimed into office on the words of laughable recipient of the Precedential Medal of Freedom, Rev. Joseph Lowery, at the inauguration hoping for better days "when white accepts what's right".  At the friggin' inauguration!  It was all downhill from there, and with the left and the MFM salivating over the idea of racializing everything, the die has been cast.  Tribalism it will be.  Even the useful idiot white liberals don't understand that Europe is very tribal and their political systems totally tribalistic - unlike the individualistic system that exists in the United States, almost uniquely. 

The modern left reminds me of Mohammed declaring the islamic calendar to be totally lunar and even made the insertion of intercalaries a capital offense.  The modern left does the same with the US system of governance and political traditions.  They want a totally lunar government, and given the number of leftist lunatics currently populating the government ... they've pretty much done it.

340 May I suggest new Tea Party signs of "Fuera!" - seems to work like a charm, and seems to be non-racist. Tea Party should find out some of the leaders in Bell who protested and get them on-board. Tea Party en espanyol.

341 alexthechick- I hadn't seen the post about your friend either. I'm very sorry for your loss. DiT- I meant to tell you the other day that your Stuff Jefferson Said, is one of my all time favorite gags. The time you had that troll arguing about the authenticity of the quotes literally had me crying I was laughing so hard. Funny stuff.

342 I meant to tell you the other day that your Stuff Jefferson Said, is one of my all time favorite gags

Well he should know.  He was there.
*ducks*

343 This thread started out with this premise from PA:

The mood of the public is turning ugly against public officials who are being paid far more than they should.

How about Ann Arbor, MI where they are laying off cops due to financial problems but are spending half a million dollars on a damn water fountain and hiring a damn city art director.

This is what truly pisses off the average conservative moron.

344

Posted by: Vic at July 24, 2010 03:03 PM (/jbAw)

I was thinking in precisely that manner while out mowing.  The average prison guard makes what? 35k/yr?  And it's a vital, legitimate government function.  They're being laid off, to the point that the other guards are saying "Look.  We're short on manpower.  This is getting dangerous>"  They never shitcan the 180K a year "Director of Diversity Opportunities" at any government agency.  Always the people that actually do work, provided the government agency actually does work, of course.

There are far too many "positions" in government, and not enough "jobs".

345 What will I do?  As far as lighting torches and gathering pitchforks, I'll be left out.  I don't have a pitchfork.  Oh wait, I have  . . .

346

I have confidence, Vic, that it pisses off all but the most delusional filthy hippie communiobot wastoids of the far Left. The only reason I wake up in the morning and not reach for a delicious handgun for breakfast is the knowledge and memory of the patriotic and warmhearted reaction all but the most insane had here after 9/11.

The normal liberal voter - gosh, haven't said that in a long time - is as uncomfortable with the prospect as any conservative. But they're ignored and vilified as being "disloyal" at best - "racist" "homophobic"  and "fascist" if they disagree publically with Those Who Speak.

One day soon they'll lose their composure and drop their courtesy towards their fringes like we have. That's what I hope for, but I can't see anything but a horrible surprise causing it. Or an insanely popular, hard-core pro-American movie or event that pushes all the right buttons at the right time. But since Hollywood is tied up in knots about goodness and the American way, I doubt that will happen.

347 Speaking of useless Gov't. employees: 

The U.S. Agricultural Secretary offered Shirley Sherrod a deputy director's position within the agency's outreach wing, the AJC has learned.

In an exclusive interview Saturday morning, Sherrod told the AJC that she was offered the job of deputy director of outreach, which is within the USDA's Office of Advocacy and Outreach.

As Agriculture Secretary Tom Vilsack described the position to Sherrod  the role would, among other things, help to tamp out discriminatory practices the department has been accused of.

"He said he wanted to do a lot to address discrimination within the agency during his tenure," Sherrod said. "But he certainly didn't show he was willing to try to do make that attempt by what he did this week."

http://tinyurl.com/2a3rv36

348 Yeah Herr, they are talking another damn sales tax hike here as well (or laying off cops and fire fighters if they don't get it).

The damn sales tax in town is already 10.5% and they are talking another hike! of course the papers all are in favor of it and NOBODY mentions cutting any of the socialist programs that got enacted when things were fat.

349

Thanks Jack.

 

*moves Herr Morg to the "kill when convenient list".

 

heh

350 Sherrod told the AJC that she was offered the job of deputy director of outreach,

Oh boy another DDO job with the giverment. That sounds an awful lot like that job at the hospital that the Wookie had.

And yes, must hire a black female racist to oversee racism in a federal give-away bureaucracy. What could go wrong there?

351

What I find illogical is the insistence on paying extra personnel over and above that of an internal investigation branch on the public dime to ensure that the government follows the fucking law. Anyone else see the irony and illogic?

352 *moves Herr Morg to the "kill when convenient list".

I try to stay off Primary Target Lists.
I'm on everybody's Secondary Target List.

353 "Deputy Director of Outreach"?

I like it.  It has that bureaucratic sound that only the best writers and most dumbshit government operatives can come up with.

354 Anyone else see the irony and illogic?

Posted by: Inspector Asshole at July 24, 2010 03:22 PM (KemLo)

Yeah, kinda like the irony and illogic of Government Worker's Unions.

355

Vic said, "How about Ann Arbor, MI where they are laying off cops due to financial problems but are spending half a million dollars on a damn water fountain and hiring a damn city art director.

This is what truly pisses off the average conservative moron."

This would actually piss off all but the most idiotic of sentient beings.  This would piss off the cat, if I told him about it!  There's certainly a place for the arts, but not at the expense of public safety!  It's as though all the priorities got turned upside down.

356 Herr, you can tell wifey that its time to move to SC now. We are back to cool weather. It is currently 98.5°F with 55% humidity.

357 the knowledge and memory of the patriotic and warmhearted reaction all but the most insane had here after 9/11.

Posted by: Inspector Asshole at July 24, 2010 03:14 PM (KemLo)

Just noting that Rev Wright's infamous "G-d Damn America!" speech was made only a week after 9/11.  Many people forget what the environment was like back then.  If Wright's speech had made the news back when it happened, people would have absolutely freaked.  No one who ever even looked at that despicable mosque/crypto-church would have been considered for employment anywhere, especially not someone who took Wright's title for his own book and called him his "spiritual mentor".

358 It's as though all the priorities got turned upside down.

I guess we should expect that from Ann Arbor since that is the home of the commie hippy sixties.

But it is only 86°F there so they can turn off their A/C for the Washington Post.

359 Publishing of public employee salaries is a double-edged sword.  I have a friend who is a civil engineer with a local municipality.  Her local paper recently published the salaries of employees.  Non-union employees got intimidating phone calls in the middle of the night.  She is non-union but actually makes less than she could make as an engineer with a private firm.  She took a cut in pay to work with the city, doing so for the pension benefits.  Now she wishes she hadn't because there is some question if she will ever actually see that pension.

360

What I find illogical is the insistence on paying extra personnel over and above that of an internal investigation branch on the public dime to ensure that the government follows the fucking law. Anyone else see the irony and illogic?

Posted by: Inspector Asshole at July 24, 2010 03:22 PM (KemLo)

Makes about as much sense as government employees being allowed to unionize around a closed shop.  That is the height of insanity, really, since neither side of the transaction is really responsible, or has any personal stake, in anything.  Both of their interests overlap in that both sides want to just suck the most dollars from the citizenry.

361

388 Hey!  I haven't had waking fantasies of disemboweling you in a long time now!  Even said you and the wife would be fun to sit down to a family beer with -- that's like a declaration of freaking love coming from somebody like me...assmunch!

 

362

391  That's a feature, not a bug -- get people not believing in some inalienable truths, like the concept of "good" and "evil", then start screwing with the priorities...then grab power while everyone is busy trying to recover from chasing their own tails.

As for the Sherrod thing -- get people feeling so self conscious, so worried about being "unfair" that you can use a certain group of people to advance a rather nasty agenda...because they will be afraid to call anyone of that group out, for fear of being a bad person.  Advance and grab power while everyone is focused on that, and scared and acting tribal (and then turn the little people loose on that group after that group is no longer convenient).

Same as it ever was: what's happening now has happened before, and will likely happen again.

It would be nice if we all could finally put the brakes on it.

363 I think I read that M. Malkin recently sold her site for like 20m. Please correct me if I'm wrong. I remember Ace finally admitiing once how much money he made a year. The amount was excactly enough to bring tears to my eyes. I remember my girlfriend asking me what was wrong.  I think Ace may have had a choice to be rich or to put up with our idiotic shit. Respect is what I have for Ace.

364 td, if this thing was rocking I would SO HAVE THAT SWEET, sweet dental plan.

365 Sorry, I had to step out for a while to go to lunch with, oddly enough, a couple of the H2 guys.

Looks like it got sorted out pretty well up above, and all I have to add is that you're all welcome at the H2 any time, as long as you don't interrupt the funny with too much serious shit. As Rosetta said last week, 8% serious and 92% stupid shit is about the right mix.

And please don't take my prior comment as a criticism of Blazer, who I like.

366 Dave, I thought you won free dental from ace a while back on a bet.

That motherf***. It's ON!

367 Just when I think I'm out, they keep pulling me back in.

368 Dave if you really are from the south then you should have a pair of vice grips.

369 If they walk away with their pensions, then they are only doing a gazillon times better than we will ever do in our lifetimes.

370 Does anyone on here even speak this language?  So why post in this language if no one can read it anyway?  It becomes a waste of band width.

Posted by: curious at July 24, 2010 01:20 PM (p302b)

 

If you click on any of the characters, you'll get a translation. That's the idea. Comprende?

In Asian philosophy, in this case, advertising, the reverse is the obvious. _{(But only on Saturday)}

371 I hereby, thread dead or otherwise, pledge to try to be more humorous and less easily interpreted as hostile when on something contentious.

I tried not quoting someone directly, not addressing someone directly, or even expressly denying direct targeting, but none of that shit works.

That doesn't mean I ain't gonna say what I'm gonna say, just that I'm gonna try to aim less for "you cocksucking idiots can take care of THIS!" and more for "Dear pusillanimous Poltroons - I vehemently disagree and offer this mathematic proof - disprove if you dare or just throw cash!"

372 --- what does the poor, non-supervisory street cop in the City of Bell, CA make a year I wonder?

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