1 We are so fucked.

2 Good Morning Monty

On that "house investment", a lot of people used to do that back during the days of "big inflation". The idea was to buy the most expensive house you could get at the time and as inflation caused your wages to go up the house was more affordable.

I knew a guy who used to do this a lot. He would buy a super expensive house and sink everything in to it. After about 5 or 6 years he would sell that house (at a profit) and buy another one even more expensive.

His idea was to continually reinvest and sell out after retirement. I think that all came to a screeching halt when Reagan straightened out Carter's mess.

3 I don't think we have reached the "age of turmoil" yet. If we don't take at least the House and then get rid of Obama in 2012, yes the collapse will be inevitable then.

But now we still have a chance.

4 Amity Shlaes; if you haven't read The Forgotten Man read that pdf. That book is outstanding and it crushes the FDR myth.

5 CDR M: That's why I almost hope the GOP candidates lose the races in CA. There's no retrieving the situation, and I'd rather the Donks catch the shitstorm that is sure to follow. Like I said: any state that would elect Jerry Brown to governor (twice) richly deserves the pronging they are most assuredly going to get.

6 I personally think that too many people are hoping the bubble will simply reflate rather than accept the fact that our housing stock was simply overvalued by as much as 40%. It's not that the wealth disappeared; it's that the wealth never existed in the first place. People paid too much money for houses they couldn't really afford, then took out loans against equity that didn't really exist.

Like any ponzi scheme, a few people profit at the expense of many. 
What stocks look good these days?

7 On Talapia, the first time my wife ate it it made her sick as a dog. We have been reluctant to try it again.

8 Question for Monty or another moron who may know:  How can we find out who holds these bonds from California?  I would like to know so I can avoid having any of my 401K invested there.  This is not some weird anti-California divestment plan, just trying to be smart with my money.

9 On return of "underwear". I thought that is was illegal to return underwear.

10 the measure would bring California in line with most other states' budget policies

They want to impose sanity on the insane via ballot initiative that increases insanity? 

I would have never thought of giving that approach a try.

11

Monty,  somewhere in the last couple of days i had read GS was telling the Fed they need to print another 4 trillion. one of the highest estimates coming out of the finance guys

I had wondered how does this help america? where will the funds go, is it to take over more assets as more homes? won't this finish us off? how can we pay this back when millions are now unemployed?

devaluing the dollar will screw around everryone that uses our currency right? country to country?

if this is done again in 2011 how long before we blow up?

should i only by pets that are edible? and remember to not mistake me for a hobo if what i suspect does actually occur

12 can we recover at this point? austerity? hell ugh.

13 The housing bubble is being held artificially too high still by the feds. It still has some room to collapse in the big States that had the problem; CA, NV, NY, and FL.

Be advised however, that they will no go all the way down where they should be because the thing that started the bubble in these States is still in place.

Eco-Nazi "green space" laws are the culprit that started it.

14 And yes, CA is boned.

15 CDR - of course they would use the tool of our beloved police and firemen to jerk our chains , they know those are the ones we actually want to be around. damn i hat the politics of it all.  and military

16 by-buy

17 did i break something?

18 Willow pretty much asks what has been eating at me lately - Does it really matter who wins in 2010 & 2012? I really can't see how we can avoid an economic meltdown in the long run- when and how bad seem to be the only questions. Am I just embracing my inner doomer a bit to much or should I go ahead and build those Hesco barriers into the landscaping of the house?

19 I asked a real estate friend once how so many people were able to afford $500k+ homes.  She told me (and this was before the housing crash) that at least once a week she would walk into a house and find it less than half furnished because the owners couldn't afford it. 

20 nd will they arrest me for cruelty to my children by growing a potato patch? heh  (while i'm at it)

21 If the newlyweds had any brains, they'd have filled those empty rooms with hydroponic dope farming gear and turned that money pit into an income generator.

22 The 'empty McMansion' has been around since 1992, at least in the Houston, TX, area. My wife joined a homemaker's group that involved weekly lunches at member's homes. She said that a significant percentage of these homes were empty save for a few rooms that were actually lived in. People just didn't have the money to buy 5,000 square feet of furniture.

23 9 On Talapia, the first time my wife ate it it made her sick as a dog. We have been reluctant to try it again.


I NEVER buy Tilapia, the ponds they use are reportedly very polluted.

24 all we need is more stimulus, ask krugman hes a Nobel prize Winner in economics. Plus higher taxes on the rich what do they need all that money for anyway. affordable homes for working families, thats how you create JOBS.

25 I dropped by the local Trader Joe's the other day for a can of crab meat and a can of salad shrimp.  For some reason the quality/price ratio on those items is better at that upscale, bullshit little boutique than at other places.  No idea why.

It was packed.  College girls were getting their "organic", locally grown, fair trade black bean burgers, while the 60-ish housewife in front of me dropped a Grant on decorative gourds and other non-essentials.

Off to Meijer for my other ingredients, and it was practically deserted.

It struck me that those with money are being insulated, pissing away their resources in the most inefficient manner possible, as they have since time immemorial.  The folks on a budget are finding that that budget isn't going all the way to payday anymore.   Conspicuous consumers are going to find the cupboard bare soon, I'd imagine. 

26 LOL - "What in God's name are you babbling about, woman?" I lumme some Cagney, yes I do. Ere-way in-hay e-thay oney-may ... Not. My unemployed self is really enjoying these posts, Monty (in a rather masochistic way).

27

yesterday someone put a link from weazel zippers. where an Old aquantance of Obamas (a Marxit himself) said that they ran in same groups of marxists, and that Obama had dreamed of a revolution the workers rising agains the elie. that they had had discussions about it a few times. (does anyone know if this is just cospiracy stuff)

hell i hope ace isn't teed off at this post. but i value youze guyz thoughts.

28 Must be nice to live in an empty house. I have more stuff in my shitty apartment than square footage to store it in.  The bookshelves lining the walls of the living room were fine until I bought a couch, now there's no room for anyone bigger than the cat to walk around and access the damn shelves. Then The Guy What Sleeps On My Couch brought fifteen thousand boxes of crap and piled them in my sewing room, to the point I can't use the sewing machine because I'll bang my elbow on his fucking 1980s fax machine.

(Thing that always unimpressed me--the big new subdivision houses with no trees that I've been in look really nice from the driveway, really plain from the backyard, and really shitty construction inside--no moulding or baseboards, cheap-ass bathroom fixtures, etc. And I know shitty construction from 15 years of living in shitty apartments.)

29 and really shitty construction inside--no moulding or baseboards, cheap-ass bathroom fixtures, etc.

There hasn't been a decent house built since the 60s.

30 23 I asked a real estate friend once how so many people were able to afford $500k+ homes.  She told me (and this was before the housing crash) that at least once a week she would walk into a house and find it less than half furnished because the owners couldn't afford it.

We saw that a lot when we lived in Atlanta.  Incredible homes with Walmart and Goodwill (not the lucky finds either) furnishings.   It was sad.   Like Versailles being taken over by a fraternity. 

31 Heather, it would seem to be a good idea for those home owners over their head to rent out those empty rooms. maybe they can then sueak by somehow.

32 Obama had dreamed of a revolution the workers rising agains the elite

*snortrofl*  Need workers for that, Barry.

33 say it ain't so about talapia.......i have a box of frozen tortilla encrusted fillets in my freezer......now you've all ruined them for me......

34 Buy Gold!

35 Eco-Nazi "green space" laws are the culprit that started it.
Posted by: Vic at October 25, 2010 08:10 AM (/jbAw)

It's a little early to fire up the bong!

What started it was the push, beginning in the 1980s, to get every idiot in the country into a house and mortgage, so that they would vote democrat. The feds strong-armed the banks into relaxing their silly requirement that people who take out mortgages actually have the income to pay them back.

36 36 and really shitty construction inside--no moulding or baseboards, cheap-ass bathroom fixtures, etc.

There hasn't been a decent house built since the 60s.

There are a few, but you do it yourself or at least sub-contract and set your own specs, stay on site as much as you can, do your own work if you can and shop for your own fixtures, appliances etc.  (that's what I did) and my mortgage is far less.

JackintheBox houses are not the way to go.

37 It struck me that those with money are being insulated, pissing away their resources in the most inefficient manner possible, as they have since time immemorial.  The folks on a budget are finding that that budget isn't going all the way to payday anymore.   Conspicuous consumers are going to find the cupboard bare soon, I'd imagine.

Ever since last winter (food budget: between $20-$30/month), I think in terms of tens and twenties -- as in, I could get ten meals out of $5 worth of groceries if I cook it right. Luckily I don't have to do that now, and my cupboards were never really bare, but dang if a cold winter of near bankruptcy doesn't change the way you look at things.

The other day, I shocked my godmother with the fact that $2,000 women's leather boots existed. She said, "How can people afford to buy those?" I replied, "They can't. That's why we're in the mess we're in."

38 jeesh Heather, 60 minutes actually admits the u6 rate!

39 Can we use the Commerce Clause to overturn local ordinances banning chickens in suburban backyards? Thats probably the most helpful thing the lame duck session could accomplish.

40 43 - modular home - and do all of the interior work yourself (or with some professional help) over time.

41 What started it was the push, beginning in the 1980s, to get every idiot in the country into a house and mortgage, so that they would vote democrat. The feds strong-armed the banks into relaxing their silly requirement that people who take out mortgages actually have the income to pay them back.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo ( NJConservative) at October 25, 2010 08:43 AM (LH6ir)

Read Thomas Sowell's writeup on the housing collapse. Sure CRA and the congressional actions with the fed helped to fuel the flames and caused the runaway aspect of the bubble, but the initial impetus for the start was the green space laws that restricted housing availability and drove prices locally.

42 Ever since last winter (food budget: between $20-$30/month), I think in terms of tens and twenties -- as in, I could get ten meals out of $5 worth of groceries if I cook it right. Luckily I don't have to do that now, and my cupboards were never really bare, but dang if a cold winter of near bankruptcy doesn't change the way you look at things.

The other day, I shocked my godmother with the fact that $2,000 women's leather boots existed. She said, "How can people afford to buy those?" I replied, "They can't. That's why we're in the mess we're in."

Eeking by on pennies can change you (both good and bad).  You become an expert in bean recipes and PBJ is a full meal.  Working with public health, it's disturbing to realize you work harder so those you serve can live and eat better than you.  (soft drinks and cookies every day as afternoon snacks...wow!)

 You also find ways to make a buck (God bless Etsy).   I shocked myself by spending $55 on clothes this week (yes, several things).   First I've bought new in almost 9 months.

43 46 Can we use the Commerce Clause to overturn local ordinances banning chickens in suburban backyards? Thats probably the most helpful thing the lame duck session could accomplish.

YEP!  Ducks and chickens (and the eggs) are cheap and easy.  It's the damned coyotes, feral dogs and foxes that make it work.

44 Posted by: Vic at October 25, 2010 08:49 AM (/jbAw)

Housing costs will rise if supply is limited by green space laws. And fewer people will be able to qualify for loans. But only when those who cannot afford to purchase are allowed to buy because of government policies will a true bubble occur.

45 EZB - since I've been boarding my brother's 115lb Newfoundland, the foxes and coyotes have been avoiding my yard.

46 There hasn't been a decent house built since the 60s.

Posted by: Herr Morgenholz

 

I live in one. Cheap plumbing fixtures, wiring that connected two floors to the basement as well, Aluminium wiring and dowspouts directed upslope. Bad devleopment housing has always been cheap and cheerful.

47 If we want to afford a brand new spanking rich country the way Friedman wants, we should do like he did--Marry another country that is not all that attractive, but is filthy stinking rich and then let them buy us a new infrastructure.

48

Tilapia is a cheap, bottom-feeding fish.  It's similar to catfish.  But nobody's going to pay $17 for a plate of catfish, so restaurants use the fancier-named tilapia instead.

Never eat tilapia.  If a restaurant serves catfish, at least they're being honest with you and might know how to cook it properly.  But tilapia is the culinary analog to P.T. Barnum's egress.

 

On a more serious note.  The reason it's important who wins this next election is that a GOP majority will pass a FY 2011 budget, and set tax rates.   With these two pieces of legislation, businesses will be able to plan for the future.  With planning, comes hiring.  How much is up for debate, but there is a ton of money sitting on the sidelines right now because everyone's scared to death of the mercurial and thuggish administration and their knuckle-dragging nincompoops in the House and Senate.

My dad has a small business that he started himself a few years ago.  He has in the neighborhood of 50 employees-- or did, a year ago.  Now he has 30.  Despite being in the high tech defense industry, he literally has no idea what's going to happen on 1/1/2011 and cannot plan accordingly.  Which means bidding on jobs, attending industry symposiums, HIRING PEOPLE TO DO WORK THAT NEEDS DOING, and paying peoples' salaries (his included) is getting dicey.

Multiply this by 100,000 for all the small businesses and startups across the country, and it becomes very clear that uncertainty is just as big a job-killer as public debt and anti-capitalist policy.

49 Kasper Hauser -- don't give Obama any ideas, he might been keen on us being a third wife to Saudi Arabia.

50 (Thing that always unimpressed me--the big new subdivision houses with no trees that I've been in look really nice from the driveway, really plain from the backyard, and really shitty construction inside--no moulding or baseboards, cheap-ass bathroom fixtures, etc. And I know shitty construction from 15 years of living in shitty apartments.)

Posted by: HeatherRadish needs a beer at October 25, 2010 08:37 AM (Vz9lf)

I am surprised at the "no baseboard and moulding" but the other things used to be fairly common here unless the house was "custom ordered" by someone with a lot of money.

Almost all houses here were bought with no landscaping other than the lot was leveled off and exiting brush and scrub removed. After I bought my house I spent about $3,000 in landscaping.

As for cheap ass bathroom fixtures those are easily replaced when the budget allows. The key to telling the real story is to go up in the attack and look at the roof joists and into other spaces where you can see the spacing between the wall joists. A good house will have 16 in spacing on load bearing walls and interior walls. Cheap crap will have 24 in spacing and in most States that will not even meet code.

And that kind of crap can not be "fixed".

51 Truman - ditto, we can't get DCAA to forward price our rates (not that we care much) - but even the Pentagon can't plan it's 2011 costs because of the healthcare and cost-of-money uncertainties.

52 @54 - LOL

53 Can we use the Commerce Clause to overturn local ordinances banning chickens in suburban backyards?

The Supremes have long ruled that those local zoning laws are constitutional

54 willow--yeah, I wonder if any of them would rent me their sixth bedroom and fourth bathroom for a fabric dyeing studio?   I'll throw in $1.25/load if it comes with washer/dryer privileges...

Oh, I'll offer the dissenting opinion on the furniture thing.  I slept on an air mattress the first four months I lived in my current apartment, until I could pay cash for a bed, then it took me another six months to save up for the couch. I could have charged those things right away and paid 19% interest for a year, or done the "one year same as cash" and risked getting hit with a bill I couldn't afford if I got laid off, but that seemed stupid.  (I've been wondering how many people buy TVs or carpet on one of those "one year no interest" deals and then get jammed after a layoff...)

55

And people call me an Eyeore.

Dude, Eyeore was an optimist.

56 Aluminum wiring doesn't meet code in most States now for residential wiring. So if you see it in a house it has either been "grand-fathered" or it is illegal.

If you see it in a house you are looking at to buy, run far and fast. It is very expensive to rewire a house after it has been built.

57

I taught myself to re-wire the house using the Time-Life series on famous outlaws of the Old West.

And you're right- never buy a house with aluminum wiring.  I rent.

58 I slept on an air mattress the first four months I lived in my current apartment, until I could pay cash for a bed, then it took me another six months to save up for the couch.

The trick is to hit the Goodwill in the wealthy part of town. (Yes, they're out there.) The prices are about the same, but the stuff is a lot higher quality.

59 I used to date a girl who was a social worker in a fairly large city. One distinguishing characteristic about a lot of poor folks she worked with (of whatever race or creed) was this: they had no idea how to live on a budget. They'd live in some crappy, rundown flop (usually subsidized), but would buy name-brand, upscale food and drink. The houses were always full of sugary snacks: soda, cake, cookies, candy. I've seen infants and toddlers sucking on bottles filled with Orange Crush or Grape Nehi more times than I can count (and their teeth are rotting out of their heads by the time they're ten years old). They leave bills unpaid so they can have designer clothes. Everybody had cable TV and a computer and an internet hookup. Many of them ate almost exclusively from fast-food franchises nearby; I don't think I ever saw more than a couple who actually bothered to cook meals at home any more. It's just weird to me. My family grew up pretty damned poor. But we were what my grandmother called "country poor" -- not much money, but we always had food to eat and a roof over our heads. Our clothes were either hand-me-downs or bought on sale (or hand-made). The women in my family generally spent a week or two in the fall doing canning, and the uncles were all hunters -- I didn't eat much store-bought meat in those days. It was all game. And it wasn't just us -- it was everybody in town. I didn't feel poor because everybody was poor. A lot of "poor" folks are making a middle-class wage, if only they knew how to budget properly.

60 For four years after college I slept on a futon with a sleeping bag, kept my stuff in plastic bins, and no the wimmen folk were not impressed by by frugality.

61 A lot of "poor" folks are making a middle-class wage, if only they knew how to budget properly.

Posted by: Monty at October 25, 2010 09:06 AM (4Pleu)

The "poor" of today don't cook or budget properly because the same thing that made them poor to begin with. They are mostly lazy and don't know how to do these things. Lazy comes into play because they are just to sorry to want to learn.

Lazy is what caused them to get pregnant, drop out of school, and start living on the dole. The U.S. is the only country in the world (maybe Britain) where the "poor" are fat and have TVs, cell phones, and other luxuries.

62 One caution these days about getting your furniture from Goodwill or Salvation Army: bedbugs. They're rampant, and very very hard to get rid of. There's no way in hell I'm buying used furniture (especially bedding) for the forseeable future.

63 a builder's house that he was making for himself My dad bought a builder's house - it was great, except for some unfortunate timing. The builder listened to Jimmy Carter, wanted to be forward thinking, and built it in metric. Metric rooms, metric stud spacing, doors and windows, etc. Doing anything was a pain in the ass.

64 One caution these days about getting your furniture from Goodwill or Salvation Army: bedbugs.

If I bought a piece of furniture like that today I would first sit it out in the yard and dose it to hell and back with 7 dust or something similar. You can't do that in the house because it may make you sick and it will actually run the bugs out of the furniture into the house.

65 I was serious about, "Does it really matter who wins in 2010 & 2012?". It doesn't seem possible to sustain all the growing debt and continuing borrowing w/o the bottom falling out. Can a new Congress actually cut enough to make a difference in things in the long run?

66 No, Unk.  Especially with Bitch McConnell and the girls so eager to polish Obama's knob.  But we can grow our way into some semblance of a soft decline.  It's preferable to eating each other in about three years.

67 The trick is to hit the Goodwill in the wealthy part of town.

Or garage sales, or Craigslist.  Slightly more tricky if you've moved to a new town where you don't know anyone to help you move the furniture up the stairs, even if you can rent a truck to get it home.  (And while I'm cool with hand-me-down couches and chairs, I'm kinda a snob about new mattresses. I only want to sleep on my own stains, thank you.)

Our clothes were either hand-me-downs or bought on sale (or hand-made).

And now hand-made is a sign of leisure and disposable income.  Ten-dollar scarf from Target, or $25 worth of yarn and several hours of your time...

68 On the reverse, I grew up in a relatively well off agriculture family.  Growing up never had cable TV, rarely if ever ate out, if we did eat out you had to be careful not to drink all your soda, because no way in hell would my mom pay for a refill. Was a running joke for years, that employees of the family business, dressed and lived a heck of a lot better than me and my siblings.

69 HeatherRadish: One of my most cherished possessions is a quilt my grandmother made me...from old blue jeans that I'd worn out! She sewed it all by hand, too, flannel liner and all -- no machine. And she made fifteen quilts: one for each grandkid (at the time). I can't even imagine how long it must have taken her. That quilt is love in physical form. I've had it since I went to college lo these many years ago. I've lost count of the number of people who want to buy it from me, but I'll never sell it. My mom, during one of the periods after she quit smoking, crocheted me this huge afghan. She admitted that the afghan was so huge because she didn't know how to 'end' it; she hadn't learned how to do edging yet. My sister had to finish it for her. I still use that as a couch-cover.

70 Posted by: Monty at October 25, 2010 09:11 AM (4Pleu)

There are insecticides that are perfectly safe, but unapproved (for political reasons) for use on furniture. If you find a good deal, buy it!

71

"One caution these days about getting your furniture from Goodwill or Salvation Army: bedbugs."

Also, watch out for antique smell.  Several years ago I bought an amazing 1930's Art Deco furniture set, very rare design. Deco collectors would shit themselves over this set. Everything I put in those drawers ended up smelling like Eddie Cantor's underpants boiled in 80 year old Chanel perfume. Awful. Scented dryer sheets didn't help. I left the set at my parents when I moved out. Now whenever I go back into that room to clean & treat the set, I gag. Now I know why the old lady just wanted it out of her house. 

72 Suckahs. I have fine clothes, a Cadillac, and live in da hood.

73 Never bought anything on Craigs list though. The experience varies. I've bought a few things from CL over the years, but I've heard of a lot of people getting ripped off. Literally -- you show up with whatever gadget you want to sell, or with your money if you're buying something, and the other guy shows up with a gun. For CL transactions, I always insist on doing the deal in a public space, not at a private residence. I want lots of people around. This is probably more common in big cities than smaller towns, but you just never know. It's also quite common for the seller to bring some busted piece of crap rather than the item listed and try to pawn it off on you. I had that happen last year with a guitar I was nterested in. The seller is claiming it's a "vintage Martin D-18", when any idiot can tell it's one of those lame-ass Japanese rip-offs that were so common in the 1970's and early 1980's. Plus it was beat to shit and the action was so high it was like fretting a barbed-wire fence. He wanted $2000 for this "vintage" beauty. (He probably did find some sucker out there to buy it.)

74 In Televised Address, Obama Asks Nation for $999.73 Billion in Bus Fare

75 I have a patchwork quilt made by my great grandmother. She made one for each of the brothers on an old Singer tread pedal sewing machine like this one.

http://tinyurl.com/38ut6nm

I also have an afghan made by my mother.

76 'The U.S. is the only country in the world (maybe Britain) where the "poor" are fat and have TVs, cell phones, and other luxuries.'

BS.  It's the same in the UK.

77 Things are heating up in RI

http://tinyurl.com/2enzw8o

For background:  Former President Clinton has been here to campaign for Caprio.  Jugears is coming this afternoon to fundraise for corruptocrat Cicillini .

78 Posted by: Monty at October 25, 2010 09:26 AM

If she hand-stitched denim, she loved you A LOT.

The spread on my bed growing up came from my great-grandfather's house when he died...don't know who made it, it was three 50s orange-and-turquoise bedsheets stitched together and quilted in a grid.  When it started to disintegrate a couple of years ago I liberated it from my folks' house intending to put a new binding on it, but when I was picking it apart, I realized the batting inside the sheets was a hand-pieced red-and-white Ohio Star quilt--in lousy shape, which is probably why it got used for filler instead of as-was, but fascinating.

The batting for the quilt on my bed cost $40 in 1999.  But it's got an R-factor of 3.

79 BS.  It's the same in the UK.

Posted by: jeannie at October 25, 2010 09:37 AM (Jvn9T)

I said maybe Britain.

80 Everytime I look at new clothes in the store, I thank goodness my mom taught me to sew.

81 'The U.S. is the only country in the world (maybe Britain) where the "poor" are fat and have TVs, cell phones, and other luxuries.' Technology is cheap and getting cheaper. I saw a picture once of some street-beggar in Bangalore or Calcutta -- ragged clothes, stick-thin, begging bowl. And clipped to his belt: a cell phone. Hell, even a beggar can scrounge up enough dash for an MP3 player these days. Clothes are more expensive than electronics are when you consider wear-and-tear and stuff like that. In many ways technology makes being poor much more bearable than it used to be back in the Depression. But even then, people would do without other things to have entertainment -- my grandmother said that even in the worst of times, everyone she knew had either a wind-up Victrola record-player or a radio in the house. And those items were massively more expensive, in relative terms, than a television would be today. It's just one of the innumerable ways in which modern poor people have luxuries that even kings and emperors couldn't dream of a couple of hundred years ago.

82 Retro Governor Moonbeam.  Heh!  The bastard was in charge of the Golden State when I was in High School... kind of an early indicator of the rolling disaster it would become.

And now... he's B-B-B-B-A-A-A-A-A-ACK!!!!!!!

My God, What is wrong with the voters of California?

83
Re: the UK link.

That's the thing about the welfare state like they have in the UK. 
They have created a huge social welfare system, and when it cannot be funded, it's the most cruel.  There's those unintended consequences again.

Why not build everything off the back of freedom and liberty, free markets, competition, educational choice, and capitalism?  Nah.  No trust. Liberty is now the butt of a joke.  Capitalism is so vilified, Europe's greatest propagandists are jealous.

The left's only answer: the social welfare state.  It will save you, and you must take it.  The left will never understand the seeds of a healthy community.  The left only understand short-sided, empty, feel-good emotional solutions that end up as the most cruel of solutions because they never work.

84 Damn, wrong thread...

85 About those UK spending "cuts"..

There are no cuts. I say again, there are no cuts. What the Cleggerons are talking about is a reduction in the rate of increase in public expenditure as compared with the June budget.

86 It's rather like food. Vic mentioned that the Western nations have the fattest poor folks in human history. This is because food is cheap and plentiful. And humans, being naturally inclined to high-fat and high-sugar foods, will fill up on those foods if they are in abundance. Americans are not unusual in this regard; it's just human nature. What is unsual about Americans is that their eating habits, once established, tend not to change even when their income goes up. Many black folks are genetically prone to hypertension and diabetes, yet the traditional "soul food" and fast-food diets are almost guaranteed to either cause or exacerbate these illnesses. White folks are getting Type II (adult onset) diabetes in huge numbers. And the instances of hypertension, heart disease, and cancers among hispanics are starting to skyrocket as well. Why? It's complicated, but fatty foods and preservatives are probably one of the triggers. Again, it's not that Americans have some specific moral failing that causes them to act badly in the face of material plenty. It's just human nature. But we are finding that there are huge social and economic costs to caring for entire generations of people who lived in this way. This is partly why our national health costs are soaring, and are only going to go higher as time goes on. We may be living longer, but we are going to be a pretty sick bunch of old folks.

87

 Obama had dreamed of a revolution the workers rising against the elite.

I'd always found this sort of thing hilarious.  Obama is textbook elite.  Not only now, but from his overeducated parents who hung out with guys like Frank Marshall Davis, his international travel, his private schooling to his current status, he is 100% elite and always has been.

You think anybody in the Labour party in Britain ever worked a real job in their lives?  All of the Marxist college students (cf. Bill Ayers) who talked about "workers" were elite snobs with a sense of noblesse oblige (and a few dreams about being the head honcho post-revolution, those stupid workers certainly can't govern themselves).

Even their policies aren't pro-worker, as much as pro-indigent. There's some notion that they're not talking about "workers" per se, but the working class.  Even then, nobody would confuse Obama with "working class."

But then I read an article by Thomas Lifson, I think, at The American Thinker.  He described, based on what was known and a little bit of conjecture, what Barry's life must have been like in Indonesia.  He would have been alone.  He didn't speak the language and yet he didn't fit in with the American kids.  You see, his stepfather, Lolo Soetoro, was a native of Indonesia.  He did pretty well, but not nearly as well as the American workers who were lavished with money to relocate to a foreign country.

So most of Obama's friends would have been American, but would have been significantly wealthier than himself.

He goes to school in Hawaii.  The most exclusive school on the island.  Again, filled with rich kids.  Moreover -- and he doesn't mention this much, it goes against his template -- but I know from people who lived in Hawaii that there is a nasty racial streak that can run through the native Hawaiian community.  I can't believe he was very welcome among the native Hawaiian kids, his book seems to exclude them almost totally even though his class pictures indicate that they formed about 40% of his class.

He then goes to Occidental, which is one of those liberal arts schools for students who have more money than brains.  It's a good school and the students aren't bad, but it's expensive.  By this time, Barry's well on his way down the path of revolution and social justice and all the other thinly-veiled attempts to salve his bitterness and anger.

But even to Columbia and especially Harvard, he never really knew anyone who wasn't rich.  He felt he deserved to be rich, he should have been one of them.  Look at how well-educated his family was.  But he was never really part of the proper cliques.

So when he talks about rich, what he really means are the Kennedys, Rockefellers or maybe even the Gateses.  He is always envious of their houses in Italy, their private jets and their lives of leisure.  And so he sees himself as one of the downtrodden.

With his father gone, he became not a person but an icon.  Barack Obama, Sr was the deposed prince from a faraway land.  Most little kids, at some time, after some particularly harsh discipline dream about their true parents being aliens from another place who are truly royalty.  These parents would come some day and swoop the child away to live in luxury.

To little Barry Obama, his father was an alien (of sorts) who was a king (of sorts) but he was prevented his rightful rule by -- whom? -- the British?  Europe in general?  American imperialism?  multinational corporations?  capitalism?

Whatever he was, Barack Obama, Sr. was Hercules to his son and only true injustice prevented Barack, Jr., the prince and heir apparent, from obtaining his rightful place among the well-heeled with whom he traveled.

And that's why he self-identifies with "workers."

88 #93  My God, What is wrong with the voters of California?

It must be the water, or lack thereof in many places.  Couple that with the dramatic surge of illegals there for at least the past 20 years and the glut of Dem politicians eager to bestow public largesse on them for votes, and you have the recipe for only chaos.

Perhaps that state needs to be burned down (economically speaking) before it can be rebuilt.

89

Posted by: Monty at October 25, 2010 09:52 AM (4Pleu)

So you're basically saying, "stop eating that shit and get off the couch."

(You should write a diet book...)

90

There are no cuts.

Actually there are, in education for sure.  Of course, the universities will have to make up for it by fees, but they got themselves in this mess by all (even Oxford and Cambridge) being vassals of the state and also by being part of the EU.

The EU has a rule that you cannot charge higher tuition for citizens from other member states, like the out-of-state tuitions we have here.

91 Aluminum wiring doesn't meet code in most States now for residential wiring.

Beverly Hills Supper Club fire, 1977.  The whole aluminum wiring industry was taken apart by the class-action that followed.  First class action that sued an entire industry based on "vicarious liability".  My wife's uncle and his fiance died in that fire.

92 On return of "underwear". I thought that is was illegal to return underwear.
Posted by: Vic at October 25, 2010 08:06 AM (/jbAw)

It's not [wheeeze] illegal [snicker]. I run an unlicensed return facility where ladies may return their [heh-heh] [heavy sigh] underwear for a better-than-full refund.

93

There hasn't been a decent house built since the 60s.

I found one! And jumped on it within minutes of seeing it. Built in the 80s, with tons of woodwork. Which is actually a problem, because the last owners didn't take care of the woodwork and I'm still figuring out what to do about it.

Driving around town, there are at least 3 new banks being built within a mile or two of my house. It's so weird to read gloom and doom and then see so much construction, esp. for more banks!

94
"Like I said: any state that would elect Jerry Brown to governor (twice) richly deserves the pronging they are most assuredly going to get."

We citizens of the Land of Lincoln are second to none when it comes to electing shitty governors; but re-electing Governor Moonbeam is something not even we would do.

95 jesus Monty that sounds so sad. Living in a one bedroom apartment, it is like being a student all over again

96

Maybe the San Andreas Fault is there for some sort of crazy cosmic justice.

97 #36  There hasn't been a decent house built since the 60s.

I lived in a town-home for a while while I was an undergrad.  The place was crap; crappy paint, crappy floorboards, crappy ceiling tile - mostly everything was shit.  And my stepfather swore the place was tilting to the right.

98
I adore P J O'Rourke.

99 The powers that be are whistling past the graveyard wearing rose-tinted sunglasses.

World stocks up as G-20 vows to avoid currency war

LONDON – World stocks rose and the dollar slumped Monday after global finance chiefs vowed to avoid a currency war that could derail the global recovery. With no concrete guidelines to go by, however, investors are wary that this may only prove a temporary truce.

/In the end, there will be only chaos. 

100 Living in a one bedroom apartment, it is like being a student all over again

Posted by: archie bunker at October 25, 2010 10:09 AM (0YS61)

But it's miles further along the trail than your grandma's basement.

101 jesus Monty that sounds so sad. Living in a one bedroom apartment, it is like being a student all over again Well, I was not long out of college (and a cheapskate), so it fit me. Also, it was actually a pretty nice place -- it even had a fireplace! (God knows why, though. It was in the middle of a big city, and it's not like I could just trot down to the corner convenience store and pick up a cord of wood. I think I used it twice.) Having been a homeowner for about fifteen years now, I can say: I prefer apartment living in many ways. Something breaks? Call the super. No property taxes going up every year. No yardwork. No dealing with busted downspouts, flooded basements, or leaking water-heaters. No furnace-filter changing, or A/C condenser crapping out during the hottest part of the summer. If I can sell my shack, I'm probably going back to being a renter.

102 living in your grandma's basement is better than living in your parents basement isn't it?

103 Where's the wave?

Blumenthal 56%
McMahon 43%

Rasmussenreports.com

104 Hey, I have an idea, let's play "Which one of these is not like the other ?"

105
Ruth McClung is running against the Charles Johnson candidate.
Vote for Ruth.

Tea Party + Scientist.  = really piss off the assholes on the left.

106 115 Where's the wave?

Coats      -  52%
Ellsworth - 34%

The latest Rasmussen Reports telephone survey of Likely Voters in Indiana shows Coats, who previously served in the Senate from 1989 to 1999, with 52% support. His Democratic opponent, Congressman Brad Ellsworth, picks up 34% of the vote. Five percent (5%) like another candidate in the contest, and nine percent (9%) remain undecided.

107 greg what would represent a "wave" to you on Nov 2? what is the least number of seats that the gop needs to win for it to be a victory in your mind? i'm sorry ifyou've already answered this question....if you have, i must have missed it

108

Good morning!  Ain't it wonderful?  Were boned and it's still beautiful! I love the smell of hemlock in the morning.

I will admit to just a touch of melancholy, though.  I just can't seem to shake the thought that the Repubs should have absolutely demolished the dems in virtually every possible venue.  All the dems had, for cripes sake, were socialist, ignorant, self important, power corrupted loosers.  Not pitiful, small-time loosers, mind you, but mega-loosers - the cream of the crop, if you will.

I have no illusions that it is possible on a large scale to get dems to switch their vote.  That doesn't happen very often.  But the Repubs had such an opportunity with the stench of rot and corruption eminating from Barry's office to decimate the fricking dem socialist agenda to get the dems to be so disgusted with their candidates that they would have stayed home in droves, but what are we going to wind up with? 

Inertia!  That's what. Fricking inertia and the inexorable decent into perpetual entitled mediocrity and perverted thought impaired whacked out ideas of fucking fairness.  And instead of dying quickly, we get to languish for years as we watch the outmoded freaking insanity (as it turns out) ideas of the founders about democracy, freedom and the constitution spasm for years in their death thoes. 

Welcome to the party, pal.

109 The latest Rasmussen Reports telephone survey of Likely Voters in Indiana shows Coats, who previously served in the Senate from 1989 to 1999, with 52% support. His Democratic opponent, Congressman Brad Ellsworth, picks up 34% of the vote. two hobos, a Teachers' Union steward named Myron, and section Q of Ft. Wayne Memorial Gardens.

Fixed.

110
Ruth vs. the fat ugly & corrupt liberty kill.

111 #120  what would represent a "wave" to you on Nov 2? what is the least number of seats that the gop needs to win for it to be a victory in your mind? i'm sorry ifyou've already answered this question....if you have, i must have missed it

If Nancy Pelousi is still in office after Nov 2nd, the wave has failed!

112 Where's the wave? Funny thing about really big waves, Greg: if you're floating in the ocean, a tidal wave could pass right under you and you'd never know it. But when it hits land.... And I have no doubt that the Donks will look at the wreckage the day after the elections, choose some arbitrary race the GOP did not carry, and claim thereby that the "wave" was nothing at all. Like I said: believe the nonsense if it comforts you. You'll know the truth and so will I, even if it remains unspoken between us.

113 Went and saw Jackass 3d this weekend. It helped me forget about the Jackasses we have in DC.

114
Tom FriedmanÂ’s recent crie de couer





Using French? I worry about you, Monty.

115 ""Where's the wave?

"Coats      -  52%
Ellsworth - 34%"

Actually, you may be right.  A Republican state electing a Republican in an off-year election when the ruling opposing party is unpopular is big news.   But that may be all the "wave" is...racking up lopsided wins in GOP states and losing the battlegrounds, which would still give the GOP the lead in the generic ballot.

116
We already know what the DNC media will say on Nov 3rd.  If it's not a complete blow-out, if the Dems manage to hang on to a few scraps, it will be recognized as a complete failure by the R's.

next.

117 Funny, but growing up, we were what you might call poor. Single mother, 3 kids and a huge extended family. I never bought anything unless I could pay for it. In the Army days, I can remember counting out 169 pennies to get a bag of Doritos. When I married my hubby on the salary we made, oh around six thousand a year...I had 3000 saved!! I bought everything I needed and then some. And when it came time to buy new things, we bought the best and paid cash. I have never owned any new bedroom furniture and neither have my kids. New mattresses, yes. Our cars are 12 and 6 years old.

My oldest understands the concept of paying for what you can afford. Not the middle kid, yes to the third and the fourth is too young to get there. I  just hope for their sakes, I can help them when the time comes. At the moment, we are keeping our heads above water and making a third of the salary we were used to.

I believe I am "country poor" but life is good and we are thankful to at least still have a business to work with. There is someone out there who has it worse and I am sorry for that.

My N word was always November.

118 re: returns

I watched a family shopping in Walmart. They went and picked  out dressy outfits for all of the children, paid for them, went to the bathroom and changed the kids into the new clothes, walked over to the in store photographer, had pictures done, went back to the bathroom and changed the kids out of the new clothes, then went to the customer service counter and returned the clothes and got a full refund. They never left the store.

119 "RCP Avg Direction of the country:

Right Track  31.8%    Wrong Track   62.2%"

OK, but it's not translating into good polling for the GOP in the battlegrounds.

How can the Republican not make it a close race vs a terrible candidate in Blumenthal?  The guy lies multiple times about serving in Vietnam, and has no idea how to answer the question, "how do you create a job?"  And, still, in this tsunami-like environment, he has no trouble coasting to a double-digit win?

That doesn't happen in a "wave" election.

120

Posted by: Greg at October 25, 2010 10:33 AM (huyI

Thanks for falling for the bait.  I posted that data from Indiana knowing you'd comment on that but not on PA's data.  All you concern trolls are so headstrong and predictable, not to mention stupid, that you are your own worst enemies. 

Ignorance isn't always bliss, pal. 

121
Greg, I'm surprised that you've ignored the most important pre-election polling resource of all.....Intrade.

122
CT - they love their uber-left Spitzer look-alike.  Whatever.  I say tax the shit out of CT. 

If the left want high taxes, then, for the first time ever, the left should be required to pay for all the glorious welfare state garbage they want.  Make leftists pay really high taxes.  As an example:  I want all of Barbara Streisand's money and I want her cliff-side mansion open to the poor.

123

Where's the wave?

 

Rasmussen Reports 10/19 - 10/19 750 LV 43 50 Raese +7

Rasmussen Reports 10/12 - 10/12 500 LV 52 38 Burr +14

 

Rasmussen Reports

10/15 - 10/19 863 LV 55 40 Portman +15

124 There are two very bad things wrong with apartment living. The last regular apartment I liven in cost me $550/month for a two bedroom crappy joint. The neighbors were all uniformly noisy and I worked shift work. When the neighbor's kids bounced basket balls off the side of the building in the Summer while I was trying to sleep it was really crap.

That $550/month I am sure has increased. I was there for a little over a year and it went up $50/month after the first year. I am sure it is well over $650 by now 30 years later.

When I bought my house after moving out of the apartment by house payment was $475 a month plus about $30 for taxes and insurance escrow. That was less than rent at that crappy apartment and I was building my own equity.

I also didn't have kids bouncing basket balls off my walls while I was trying to sleep.

Now if I was living back in the city again I would definitely be back in an apartment. I would probably also get rid of my car and truck.

125 There are two very bad things wrong with apartment living. The last regular apartment I liven in cost me $550/month for a two bedroom crappy joint. The neighbors were all uniformly noisy and I worked shift work. When the neighbor's kids bounced basket balls off the side of the building in the Summer while I was trying to sleep it was really crap.

Yeah, there's crap things about apartment living, but there are upsides, too. Especially in this economy. If the A/C breaks or the plumbing screws up, you pick up the phone and call maintenance. No emergency repair bills to pay. Also, amenities. Free work out rooms and a nice pool, BBQ area, etc. Secure gates, security patrols. Yes, I know you pay for all of that in your rent, but it's cheaper than what you'd pay for all of that for a private residence.

126
Vic - sounds like you made some solid financial decisions.

127 booooned

128 More whistling past the graveyard:

Latest Existing-Home Sales Information

WASHINGTON (October 25, 2010) - Existing-home sales rose again in September, affirming that a sales recovery has begun, according to the National Association of Realtors®.

129

"Where's the wave?

 

Rasmussen Reports 10/19 - 10/19 750 LV 43 50 Raese +7

Rasmussen Reports 10/12 - 10/12 500 LV 52 38 Burr +14

 

Rasmussen Reports

10/15 - 10/19 863 LV 55 40 Portman +15"

A Republican winning in Ohio and NC is a "wave?"  I suppose this proves my point, though.  This is all the "wave" is.

130 Election-wise...the stratification of the country continues. Like is continuing to seek out like. Big cities, college towns, heavily-minority districts, and the coasts are liberal enclaves. The heartland is red and getting redder. I think it was Michael Barone who referred to the process as "the great sorting-out". Even in big citites, it's visible. Minneapolis-St. Paul is a heavily-liberal area, but with deep-red suburban enclaves. (Michele Bachmann comes from that area.) The liberal/conservative split is becoming more pronounced and more extreme with every year that goes by. The two sides really don't have much in common with each other any more -- they disagree on very basic issues, basic axioms of government and the role of citizens in that government. I don't see how a polity so divided can long continue. Frankly, I think the best thing that could happen is another Constitutional Convention, and a strengthening of the Federalist aspects of our system. Liberals can live in their areas and have their sky-high taxes and social welfare (and the collapse that will inevitably follow), and conservatives can have fiscal sanity without being on the hook for liberal profligacy. Without that, I fear that within 50 years, the United States will not survive as a single nation.

131

I have never owned any new bedroom furniture and neither have my kids.

I think I'm missing the gene that causes people to go out and buy living room sets and dining room sets and other groups of furniture. Do you know how much that stuff costs when you buy more than one piece at a time??

132

Whatever he was, Barack Obama, Sr. was Hercules to his son and only true injustice prevented Barack, Jr., the prince and heir apparent, from obtaining his rightful place among the well-heeled with whom he traveled.

And that's why he self-identifies with "workers."

Posted by: AmishDude at October 25, 2010 09:58 AM

I don't think so. In a sense, little Osama Obama was a true "child of privilege" in the liberal sense. Perhaps not in Indonesia, but certainly here.

He was growing up at the peak of racial preferences, when it was uber-hip to be black. The traitor-in-training doesn't seem to have ever had to work for anything: he had his nifty pimp-threads (see the photos of him taken back then), a roof and food, and apparently never had to flip burgers, mop floors, work retail or anything else the rest of the kids had to do.

In short, like others of his kind he was something of a mascot, a pampered little brat who didn't lack for attention ("ooooh, Barry, you're so smart!"). He soaked up the incoherent armchair "revolutionary" rhetoric of the militants -- who expended most of their working energy on making posters and parroting political shit they didn't understand -- and was, thus, the prime example of a Useful Idiot.

I don't think his hatred of America and overwhelming thirst for revenge came from any personal experience (was he hassled by racist cops, denied anything he earned or forced to scuffle as a menial? Nope). Instead, it came because he knew he would get attention and support from screwed-up, guilt-ridden honkies and black revolutionaries who had figured out how to suck up all that public money being flushed their way.

He was, and is, perhaps the laziest, most self-centered sonofabitch who ever attained high office, a pampered poster-child for Affirmative Action. His story makes those who embody the Peter Principle look like heroes in a Horatio Alger book.

You could pick any non-troll moron at AoSHQ as an example of someone who worked far harder, deserved more but has received less than the Mohammedan Mouthpiece.

133

He for whom the term 'piece of shit' was coined:

http://tinyurl.com/273qqvq

via Instapundit

134 Brother, can you spare a room at the Taj Mahal Palace?

135 Free work out rooms and a nice pool, BBQ area, etc. Secure gates, security patrols. Yes, I know you pay for all of that in your rent, but it's cheaper than what you'd pay for all of that for a private residence.

Posted by: mpur in Texas (kicking Mexico's ass since 1836) at October 25, 2010 10:42 AM

My last apartment didn't have any of that stuff. It had a pool but the city had shut it down due to health code violations.

136

A Republican winning in Ohio and NC is a "wave?"  I suppose this proves my point, though.  This is all the "wave" is.

Funny though, the Prez plans to be out of the country for a week or so directly after the election. That tell you something?

137

>>98 It's rather like food. Vic mentioned that the Western nations have the fattest poor folks in human history. This is because food is cheap and plentiful. And humans, being naturally inclined to high-fat and high-sugar foods, will fill up on those foods if they are in abundance. Americans are not unusual in this regard; it's just human nature.

 

What is unsual about Americans is that their eating habits, once established, tend not to change even when their income goes up.

 

Many black folks are genetically prone to hypertension and diabetes, yet the traditional "soul food" and fast-food diets are almost guaranteed to either cause or exacerbate these illnesses. White folks are getting Type II (adult onset) diabetes in huge numbers. And the instances of hypertension, heart disease, and cancers among hispanics are starting to skyrocket as well. Why? It's complicated, but fatty foods and preservatives are probably one of the triggers.

Again, it's not that Americans have some specific moral failing that causes them to act badly in the face of material plenty. It's just human nature. But we are finding that there are huge social and economic costs to caring for entire generations of people who lived in this way. This is partly why our national health costs are soaring, and are only going to go higher as time goes on. We may be living longer, but we are going to be a pretty sick bunch of old folks. <<

 

 

 

It's DNA and genetic wiring--- feast before famine.  In times of plenty, you stock up, bulk up and gain.   It may be as simple as getting ready for the winter in our genetic code.  That is why flavors are carried in fats (bacon, butter, chocolate etc)   Why sugar and sweets are craved.   It's not a bad thing, it's a survival thing.

Even (wild) animals respond to those foods that have high caloric density with gusto.  Don't believe me--- throw rabbits hay versus grapes and see which they eat first.

 

We load up on those things that will give us the most caloric bang for the buck because it's in our survival genes. However, that was several 100 years ago and now, while we still load up, the famine doesn't come but our famine genes still make willingly losing fat cells almost impossible.

 

We now have Type II diabetes in kids (jokingly labeled Type II 1/2).... 20 years ago in diabetes ed, I'd always start out explaining that Type I was always juvenile-- related to lack of insulin production because of a physicological defect etc and Type II was adult related to lack of insulin effecacy, obesity and lack of activity.    Not anymore.

 

Plus, we've gone from a grain-bean-vegetable diet with meat as the smallest portion and a luxury to meat being the center of the plate and everything else is extra.  Again, a perceived need that is really an excess.

 

Our food supply has increased, our work load/activity has decreased and out bodies are paying the price.

 

138 Posted by: Vic at October 25, 2010 10:57 AM

My apartment in SoCal rented for roughly what a three-bedroom house with pool (service paid by landlord) goes for here in the Dallas suburb where I live.

That apartment complex had more violations racked up during inspections than any appointee in the Osama Obama regime. It was said the owner was tight buddyroos with some Very Important bigwig at City Hall.

139 Apartment living isnt the great thing to do.

I sold my house... thankfully before the crash.

I pay 1260 a month for a 3 bedroom nice apartment.

That $1260 would buy a home in the mid 200's,  My rent will go up, I am sure in the next year. that house payment will not.

140 Some one tell me why democrats tend to early vote more than republicans?

141

Heck, I was paying $870/mo. for my last apartment in LA. That was over 15yrs ago. It was a fairly large 1-bedroom. But no pool or any of that. The building had been built in the late '30s.

Great molding though.

142 I paid cash for my 1959 middle-class house about 6 years ago from a wrongful-death settlement against Hubby's inept doctor. It only requires fairly minor aesthetic updating.

I await for time to tell me if I did the right thing.

143

Some one tell me why democrats tend to early vote more than republicans?

Can't be bothered to deal with the unwashed on a Tuesday...

144 Some one tell me why democrats tend to early vote more than republicans?

Posted by: dagny at October 25, 2010 11:10 AM (HCshg)

So they can vote more often?

145 I pay $755/mo for a large 1 bedroom with all the amenities mentioned above. Plus I don't have to do yard work.

Had a house that was foreclosed on in January and, frankly, I don't miss the work involved in maintaining it.

And in the current economic climate, I'm kinda relieved I don't have anything of value to lose.

146 My apartment in SoCal rented for roughly what a three-bedroom house with pool (service paid by landlord) goes for here in the Dallas suburb where I live.

The last apartment I rented in CA was in the early 70s. It was a three bedroom townhouse with a garage and all those "extra amenities", including being furnished. It was located in Union City which was the last of the Bay Area border-to-border communities before going down to San Jose. 

I only paid $350/month for it. The last time I checked those same apartments were now going for about $1200/month. What was amazing was that apartments here in Podunct, SC were actually higher when I first moved here. There was a real shortage of rental property and people demanded and got premium prices.

147 @#145....
Have a good laugh.
25 years ago, at Army DRMO sales, I spent 35 dollars and still have two coffee tables, 2 night stands and a dresser. All dovetail finishes. The kids have two dressers that were their dad's, dovetails again. And the hubby has a dresser made by PA House that I bought used and merely cleaned up with Murphy's oil soap and lemon oil to condition for 150. The girls have built-ins in their closets. We live by the hand it down rules!!

The only rooms bought new were a dining room oak table, 8 chairs with Hutch and two extensions for 2000. And a living room set, 1200.00. They are both 13 years old. I also bought rugs. I'm of the mindset that if you buy well and classic, it will never go out of style.

148

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