1 I downgrade in your general direction.

Thanks for the chuckle.

In the US/Japan comparison to the US/China, we weren't borrowing money from the Japanese to sustain our nation's credit DEBT.

2
Yep *hiccup* we're pretty great.  *hiccup*.  Is it break time?

3 "Governor Christie sighed, stood up, and started to remove his suit jacket. The feds, noticing that the suit jacket was coming off, quickly bolted from the room".

Good for a laugh, but oh so true.

4 "from “AA” to “A+“, which reflects its deteriorating debt repayment capability and drastic decline of the government’s intention of debt repayment."

Do we sense a lack of trust?

5 California can simply tell it's pension-sucking retirees that, henceforth, their benefits will be reduced to a month's supply of canned beans.  Crisis averted, and that old 'starving old people' shit is taken care of.

6 Speaking of China;

Monty, is this you at the American Thinker?

http://tinyurl.com/29lje3h

7 Vic: Nope -- different Monty. (Good article, though.)

8 " The fact that ObamaÂ’s reckless State of the Union promise to double American exports is starting to look like the sort of thing a luckless gambler says to himself before putting his Greyhound-ticket money on the craps table in Vegas ?"

As far as "blame China" Obama syndrome goes, I haven't been hearing it, myself, not that I've been following what Obama says, more of what I've already heard.  Obama's love fest with China resounds, "be like China" so our trains can be on time, whatever. That is what I'll never forget Obama said, for the USA to emulate China, meaning that the elitist authoritarian Obama admires prison camps and prison labor for political dissidents, free labor and no governmental restraints from an outdated Constitution.

9 I miss how Monty used to end his posts with half-naked pictures of my Great Grandmother.

10 If CA simply passed a law that prohibited double-dipping and made it retroactive it would go a long way to fixing the problem.

But, like the federal government and SS, since it involves a political fix it will never happen. The fix will come when the State defaults and goes belly-up.

I bailed out in 1977, not because of financial mess that wasn't a big problem then, but because I could see the handwriting on the wall as far as nuclear power in CA went. But that handwriting turned out to be just one symptom of a dysfunctional electorate.

11 Thanks for the Allman Brothers tune too. 

12 On the linked NYT article:

Gold is at a record only if you fail to adjust for inflation. And you should almost always adjust for inflation.

What a POS torturous dog chasing its tail. Since the price of gold is the actual measure of inflation you can't adjust the price of gold for inflation.

The entire premise of that article is BS.

13 So the feds were going to kick in 3B on a 9B dollar project with NY and NJ paying for the rest. Never mind that neither State had the money to pay for it.

What gets me about this BS though is the NE gets 150% of its gas tax dollars in federal highway funding (and rapid transit). We get 75 cents.

What needs to happen is for the feds to get totally out of the highway business and move the federal gas tax to the States.

What also needs to happen is for Nikki Haley to grow a pair and veto them worthless Grahamnasty I-73 project. We don't have the money either and they are already talking about yet more tax increases here. At least this rail project in NJ actually connected to major points of interest. I-73 doesn't.

14 Since the price of gold is the actual measure of inflation you can't adjust the price of gold for inflation. They're saying that you have to adjust the price of gold in dollars for inflation (of dollars). But gold is not an absolute fixed point either -- as gold is mined and released from private stocks, the price fluctuates in absolute terms, as well. (It just doesn't inflate or deflate in quite the same way that a fiat currency does.) The price of gold in potatoes, grain, sugar, or other commodities probably hasn't changed as much.

15

 The simple truth is that we got our own stupid asses into this crack

MMMM... Ass-Crack...

 

16 I've always thought it would be interesting to try basing the value of currency on a relationship between population growth and a measure similar to GDP, if GDP weren't measured in currency. It would tie the value directly to real-world work being done and to the growing (or shrinking) size of the population.

17

I miss how Monty used to end his posts with half-naked pictures of my Great Grandmother.

Yeah, tell me about it. Now I have to spend at least 20-30 minutes a day looking for those pics. I just don't have that kind of time!

18 O/T but so good I have to spread it around:

HAHAHAAA!!!

Philadelphia Daily News gets pwn3d by fake Olberman email exchange.

Funny as hell!

19 Re gold/inflation and government numbers. My firm belief is that gold reflects the ACTUAL price of goods and materials over time and is the true measure of inflation.

Going back to that old article I mentioned in guns and ammo who said you could buy a Winchester model 94 when it was originally issued for a $20 gold piece and you could still buy it with one of those I go them one further.

$20 in 1894 equates to $489.60 using the government numbers. A used one today (pre-64) sells for about $800. That tells you that the government numbers are way off which I always suspected.

In addition, a 20 dollar gold piece was 90% gold and just under one ounce putting the price of gold in 1894 at $18/oz. It is now $1420 an ounce so that $20 gold piece would be worth $1278.

So from that POV that $20 gold piece will buy 1.5 of those 1894 Winchesters. Meaning that the dollar is even more worthless that Guns and Ammo considered. But that was a long time ago.

20 OT, but ...

Marine Corps birthday today. Honor the fallen, honor those who have served, honor those who are serving. Siemper fi.

21 I also find it a bit hilarious that a Communist, authoritarian, mercantilist, fiat-money regime like China presumes to lecture anyone on fiscal sanity - but it does say something about the Bizzaro World in which we reside that they can do it, credibly.

22 I'm overdrawn at the mammary bank.

23 Midnight Rider. The thinking man's Freebird

24 Your theta-mao waves are degrading. You owe the Church $3-trillion in spending cuts to set this right.

25 I also find it a bit hilarious that a Communist, authoritarian, mercantilist, fiat-money regime like China Obama's  presumes to lecture anyone on fiscal sanity

Fixed it just for the counterpoint.

26 My dad used to have a big bag of silver dimes. We would spread them out and play with them like that picture. I wonder if he still has them.

27 Hmmm..

Weekly U.S. jobless claims fall 24,000 to 435,000

WASHINGTON (MarketWatch) - The number of workers who filed new claims for unemployment benefits fell 24,000 last week to 435,000, the federal government reported Wednesday, continuing a recent see-saw pattern that's given mixed signals about the U.S. labor market. Economists polled by MarketWatch had expected initial claims to fall to a seasonally adjusted 450,000 in the week ended Nov. 6. The four-week average of initial claims, meanwhile, sank to its lowest level in two years -- down 10,000 to 446,500. The moving average smoothes out quirks in the weekly data and is considered a more accurate gauge of employment trends. Continuing claims declined by 86,000 to 4.30 million. A total of 8.62 million people were getting some kind of state or federal benefit in the week ended Oct. 23, down almost 308,000 from the prior week.

/Real slight quasi-recovery, or are the numbers a bit artificially improved because of holiday-related hiring?

28

Does anyone here know anything about coins.

When did we swtich from valuable metals to cheap alloys?

29

OT, but ...

Marine Corps birthday today. Honor the fallen, honor those who have served, honor those who are serving. Siemper fi.

Punch a hippy while you're at it.

30 Did you know that if you Google "peasants are revolting" you get a lot of interesting hits, especially after you click on Images though Mel Brooks is still my favorite.

31

I always thought that inflation would be good for people that held debt. For example, I assumed if the dollar was devalued by 20%, then paying off my mortgage early would be a good idea, because I would be paying it with money that is worth less. Then I realized just because money is worth 20% less doesn't mean I'll be receiving 20% more of it in my pay next year.

Jeez that stinks

32 In today's market watch, Dog Barks and Bee Stings are still down but Brown Paper Packages Tied Up With String and Whiskers On Kittens are doing surprisingly well.

33 Ben - you need a new job to truly enjoy inflation, gold panning.

34

/Real slight quasi-recovery, or are the numbers a bit artificially improved because of holiday-related hiring?

I was at a local Mall/Outlet and noticed all the big stores had holiday hiring signs. I think this is more like the census hiring. Short term jobs.

I will also point out that in the mall over 50% of the spaces were vacant. The mall is essentially JC Penny, Dick's, Borders, Sears and 5-10 specialty stores. It's been like that for about 2-3 years.  Only the big stores are surviving this down turn.

35 31

OT, but ...

Marine Corps birthday today. Honor the fallen, honor those who have served, honor those who are serving. Siemper fi.

Punch a hippy while you're at it.

I couldn't indulge in that desire while I was participating in the Marine Corp's 10k Marathon, but I did "accidentally" bump into one (or a few).  Thankfully I'm a bit more solid than the average hippy git, . 

36

Ben - you need a new job to truly enjoy inflation, gold panning.

California might need to start doing that. I can't imagine 49's got all the gold that was there.

37

Happy birthday US Marine Corps!

I'm surprised this has not been mentioned yet what with this place being a "smart military site" and all.

38

  Apologies if this was already mentioned,--To all the Marines here, Happy Birthday, guys, from the Army.


  Well done, troops.

39 39 see 22

40 Ben - there is plenty out there. I know guys who can go out and find a few hundred dollars worth whenever they want to. It is hard work and you really have to know what you are doing.

41 I always thought that inflation would be good for people that held debt. Inflation always favors credit as opposed to investment, and since we're being run by a cabal of monetarists and Keynesians, that's fully in accord with their plans. The Fed wants inflation; deflation is their boogeyman. The idea is that you inflate the currency and pay your debt off with inflated dollars. To them, this is the only recourse: they can't grow the economy enough, or tax the peasantspeasants enough, to cover the shortfall. Answer: print more money! Sovereigns have done this for thousands of years when they get into a monetary jam. When all else fails, they debase the currency. It always ends in tears, but they can't help themselves. Inflation solves the short-term problem of cash-flow, but has the knock-on effect of discouraging saving, and it savages investors and people who have to live on fixed incomes. This is the main reason why I think that a non-sovereign parallel currency is going to be forced by the market onto the world economy sooner or later. It may be gold, or it may be a basket of commodities, but sooner or later the businesses will demand it.

42 My Dad bought a Gremlin . He just sold it a couple years ago...still running.

43 Hey!! I dug the Gremlin - it was my first car in high school - even if it looked like half a car.

44 Posted by: Vic at November 10, 2010 08:34 AM (/jbAw)

Apples and oranges.

Winchester Model 94 and Winchester Model 70 (pre-1964) are two different rifles.

45

When did we swtich from valuable metals to cheap alloys?

Posted by: Ben at November 10, 2010 08:49 AM (wuv1c)

1964 was the last year they had silver in coins. 1933 saw the end of gold.

46

Ben - there is plenty out there. I know guys who can go out and find a few hundred dollars worth whenever they want to. It is hard work and you really have to know what you are doing.

unfortunately there is no gold where i live. However if i dig down a foot or more I will find a lot of coal, unfortunately it's going rate is nowhere near gold. And if i dig down even further I might find marcellus shale, but apparently my garden hose isn't capable of fracking.

47 Winchester Model 94 and Winchester Model 70 (pre-1964) are two different rifles.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo ( NJConservative) at November 10, 2010 09:04 AM (LH6ir)

I didn't say anything about the model 70. The price I quoted was for a pre-64 model 94 Winchester at $800.

48
Want to stimulate the economy and restore confidence?
Extend the current tax rates without hiking them into the punitive, confiscatory, unfit for a fair and free democracy category, promise to repeal ObamaCare and all of ObamaCare's ridiculous cost increases and mandates - ASAP.

Laugh Paul Krugman off of the radical Keynesian stage.

49 Also, I've directed my manservant Pritchett to donate my old spats to the Clapham Retirement Manor for Aged Dandies and Boulavardiers. I could have identified the author of that line as Monty even without the byline. Raconteur, bon vivant and fancy chair aficionado.

50 Posted by: Vic at November 10, 2010 09:08 AM (/jbAw)

You didn't specify, so I assumed that you were talking about the Model 70. My mistake.

The change in 1964 was trivial for the lever action, which had become a less important rifle anyway. And the older 94s were worth more because they became collector's items. So comparing them as a point of reference for inflation vs. the price of gold is inaccurate.

51 Posted by: Vic at November 10, 2010 09:04 AM (/jbAw)

Ignoring the financial implications; new coins feel like crap compared to the old ones.

52 Winchester 1894's went to crap in receiver metal and finish after 1964. The Pre 1964s increased in value over night.

53 What also needs to happen is for Nikki Haley to grow a pair and veto them worthless Grahamnasty I-73 project. We don't have the money either and they are already talking about yet more tax increases here. At least this rail project in NJ actually connected to major points of interest. I-73 doesn't. Posted by: Vic at November 10, 2010 08:11 AM (/jbAw) Eric Cantor had the same rail boner here in Richmond.. Trying to extend the railway from Richmond to DC.

54 New currency - .22LR approx. the penny, common Handgun rounds approx. the dime, 12g Shotgun shells the quarter, and common rifle rounds the dollar bill.

55 ^{I've heard of another exchange medium, in passing, called "bits". Anyone know anything about it?}

56 And I would note that silver is much better qualified to serve as replacement for local transactions, given its value density. I highly doubt we'll go back to precious-metal currency. If we do go back to a "gold standard" or bimetallic standard, it'll be a partial-reserve backing, rather like it was in the years after 1933. This probably wouldn't be much of a problem in terms of currency since so many people use non-currency transactions now (check cards, checks, direct-debit transactions, stuff like that). The electronic age makes currency much less of a problem than it used to be in gold/silver/bimetallist regimes. (Though it does give rise to other problems, but isn't that always the way?)

57 We should invalidate all the paper that the Chinese own.

58 54 Speaking of gold: it's not even near its record high. If you adjust for inflation (as you always should with the USD), gold was fetching about $2,300/oz back in the halcyon days of 1979.

Think about what the inflation-adjusted high of silver was back then ... something like $130/oz (using the same multiplier as used for the gold price).

And I would note that silver is much better qualified to serve as replacement for local transactions, given its value density.

Posted by: iknowtheleft at November 10, 2010 09:18 AM (G/MYk)

Compare the price of gold to the stock market, now, that's scary

59 Posted by: SurferDoc at November 10, 2010 09:19 AM (RKpGM)

Agreed, but the bolt action rifle had superseded the lever action by 1964 so it wasn't the flagship of the company, whereas in the 19th century is clearly was.

There is a gun store near Middletown NY whose owner collected Model 1894s (and a few other 19th century repeating rifles) for years. They are displayed on the walls of the store, and they are obviously his retirement fund (not a bad investment) because he has lots of them!

60 I hate to throw warm water onto the ice water of the morning's doom and gloom financial thread, but how about some mildly positive news? 

Cities best poised for recovery

61 I've heard of another exchange medium, in passing, called "bits". Anyone know anything about it? This is the story I've heard: "Pieces of eight" were gold pieces (and later, silver dollars) that were notched so they could be separated into separate portions. "Two bits", therefore, was a quarter dollar.

62 Huh.  The Winchester differences and silver content in US coinage both in 1964.  An interesting coincidence, that...

63 @Monty,

Agreed that a metal standard is probably unworkable, but as you mention, a partial backing of the currency would go a long way toward easing peoples' minds about the viability of our currency. It is, after all, a leap of faith to assume some inherent value in a piece of paper or a few bytes on a hard drive.

64 Posted by: DarkLordOfTheIntarWebs at November 10, 2010 09:29 AM (GBXon)

It was the Joos!

65 The Gremlin looked like an upside down whistle. 

66 Note that I used the 1894 Winchester because that was the subject of the Guns and Ammo article discussing inflation.

I used the pre-64 model for current price because IIANM that is the last year they were made in the U.S. and worth a shit. (and besides that it was the first one I found for sale on an internet search)

67 New currency - .22LR approx. the penny, common Handgun rounds approx. the dime, 12g Shotgun shells the quarter, and common rifle rounds the dollar bill. That's actually a pretty good idea, as ammunition is a valuable commodity, and with proper storage will last almost indefinitely. However, may I suggest an ammunition-backed currency instead? You could use wampum that is not easily counterfeited, like hobo teeth or ears, redeemable for their face value in cartridges. So, that would probably make a hobo femur a benjamin.

68 I have really grown to love these Financial Briefings, Monty.

Just sayin', as a guy who once bitched out over "too many co-bloggers!," this has become a real highlight of the morning.

69 http://inflation.us/sarahpalin.html Sarah Palin on Monday made a speech at a trade-association convention in Phoenix urging Federal Reserve Chairman Ben Bernanke to “cease and desist” his “pump priming”. Palin said the United States, “shouldn’t be playing around with inflation.” She went on to say, "All this pump priming will come at a serious price. And I mean that literally: everyone who ever goes out shopping for groceries knows that prices have risen significantly over the past year or so. Pump priming would push them even higher." After obtaining a copy of her speech, the Wall Street Journal's Sudeep Reddy wrote an article criticizing Palin's comments about food inflation, saying that, "Grocery prices haven’t risen all that significantly, in fact. The consumer price index’s measure of food and beverages for the first nine months of this year showed average annual inflation of less than 0.6%, the slowest pace on record." NIA finds it unfortunate that Reddy has been brainwashed into believing the government's phony consumer price index (CPI) numbers. The U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics (BLS)'s CPI is not a reliable indicator of U.S. food inflation or any type of price inflation. NIA estimates the real rate of annual food inflation in the U.S. to already be 5% and projects that this rate will rise above 10% in early 2011. NIA believes the BLS has been using both geometric weighting and hedonics to artificially manipulate the CPI downward. The U.S. government has a strong motivation to keep CPI increases as low as possible because since the year 1975, retired Americans receive annual Social Security payment increases that are tied to the CPI. NIA calculates that based on the way the BLS's CPI has understated the real rate of price inflation, Americans on Social Security should be receiving payments that are more than double what they receive today. Unfortunately, the government just announced last month that Americans on Social Security will receive no payment increase in 2011, despite the f act that food inflation will likely become the biggest crisis of the year, much larger than the mortgage crisis we have today. (More at the link)

70 Here's a question.

Since many of our transactions are now electronic could a bank just start a gold standard of their own. Just like a debit card that I currently back with dollars in my account they would be backed by gold deposited in my account. All transactions are then based on the value of gold but it simplifies the exchange by not needing to cut up the gold into exchangeable chunks.

This would get the govt out of the exchange of money and move it to the free market. Just like today Visa is accepted almost everywhere eventually the bank that facilitated this type of transaction could gain popularity to the point it drove out other currencies.

71 O/t What do you guys figure is the average IQ of the HA commentor? Above Kos, below Yahoo? The comments on the Jim Demint thread show a level of idiocy that over here would get you pummeled to death. Allah doesn't help. He vomits up some crap and all the zombies run over to lick it up.

72 iknowtheleft: I support privatizing the currency because I think there are alternatives that Uncle Sam can't even come up with. As long as issuers back their currencies with a hard backing (gold, silver, or other commodity), there's no reason the currency itself can't be of some pretty far-out kinds. (I'm thinking of things like personalized currency, "art" currency, special-use currency -- rather like videogame tokens, only backed by real money -- and so on. THere's a whole universe of possibilities out there when you don't have to fart around with the "legal tender" idea.)

73 Posted by: Vic at November 10, 2010 09:37 AM (/jbAw)

I'm not trying to be (too) contentious, but it's easy to find correlations in pretty much anything. The trick is whether they mean anything.

74 buzzsaw - you can already do that

75 I love these posts. Substance and snark.

76 63 I hate to throw warm water onto the ice water of the morning's doom and gloom financial thread, but how about some mildly positive news?

How dare you attempt to mellow my cyanide-pill quaffing mood?!?!

77 buzzsaw - the real trick would be to have an account autoleveled across a market basket of currencies and gold; that you could draw upon through the VISA network.

78 Williamson and I disagree on the impact labor costs have (he thinks they don't matter, while I do)

You are right.. For the simple reason, it matters on the "sell" side.. The end cost of the product.

If you can produce an equal product at a lower cost, you can sell at a lower price, increasing your sales and production.

You also get the benefit of Bang for the Buck, (or, in this case Bang for the Yuan)

See?.. I'm right back to that.

79 iknowtheleft: The problem with fiat currencies is that they work fine in theory, but always fail in practice. Always. Why? Because the urge of the sovereign to debase the currency is just too strong. Inflation is the inevitable outcome of a fiat currency because, as it is based on nothing more than the intent and goodwill of the issuer, it is therefore bound not to a sound money but to human nature. And human nature being what it is..... Gold (and other sound monies) resist debasement. And when debasement happens, it's obvious and hard to hide. (It's not hard to see that your 1oz gold coin now weighs only 7/10 of an ounce, or is now composed of 30% lead. And you can bet that tradesmen and retailers will notice as well, and raise their prices accordingly.) That's their primary attraction to people like me. They're not perfect (no money is), but they're far better than fiat regimes for that simple reason.

80 buzzsaw - the real trick would be to have an account autoleveled across a market basket of currencies and gold; that you could draw upon through the VISA network.

That was my question to a point is the impediment to this just getting enough people to sign on to the system or are there drivers I just don't understand that are insurmountable.

81 Just out of curiosity, I decided to have a look at what else happened in 1964.

Dang.  Busy year.

Still no connection between the coinage change and Winchester rifles.  But it was an interesting year.

82 Cities best poised for recovery

Heh, Newsweak.  After three pages of "try moving here!" the "but they're not NYC, so don't bother."

(Don't move to Iowa if you're a woman over 25 with no husband and/or kids, unless you enjoy ostracism.)

83 How dare you attempt to mellow my cyanide-pill quaffing mood?!?!
Posted by: Kratos (Ghost of Sparta)

;-)  Yeah, well somehow my interest in starting each morning with a desire to blow my brains out is not as strong as some folks'.  I need to see some light at the end of the tunnel! 

84 buzzsaw - impediments = taxes, money laundering laws; otherwise it could be set up in a couple of weeks.

85 Don't move to Iowa if you're a woman over 25 with no husband and/or kids, unless you enjoy ostracism. Come up to SE Minnesota. Those Iowegians are not to be trusted. I'll give you all the attention you desire. I'm a giver. (I do enjoy Ames, though. Pretty town.)

86 Posted by: dagny at November 10, 2010 09:42 AM (twd4c) I would have no idea.. I left there over two years ago. Way too many threads insulting my religion and beliefs. Why hang out someplace where they not only step on my feet but press down and twist with their heel as well? That and the anti-Palin posts to drive up comment threads were getting old too. I only check it out from time to time if another blog links there. Or go right to the Green Room. Their rare high point. The Greenroom is a high point but beyond that. . . .

87 @87
Heh, Newsweak.  After three pages of "try moving here!" the "but they're not NYC, so don't bother."


Yeah, I noticed that.  They're so desperate to try to keep kidding themselves that their liberal bastions are the center of the universe. 

Utah is cleaning up on California's demise, so that's encouraging for us now that we've fled LA. 

88 #89  ;-)  Yeah, well somehow my interest in starting each morning with a desire to blow my brains out is not as strong as some folks'.  I need to see some light at the end of the tunnel!

But regardless, in the end, there will be only chaos.  Better to accept it and wait for the end.  Hope is for the weak anyway.

Seriously, at least Newsweak acknowledged that lower taxes + favorable business environment = better economy.  Must have put the Kotkin's teeth on edge to write that, along with mentioning that the high-regulatory blue areas aren't going to generate any significant employment anytime soon.

89
I support privatizing the currency because I think there are alternatives that Uncle Sam can't even come up with.

So you support Ron Paul dollars? Have you lost your mind?

90 #91  Come up to SE Minnesota. Those Iowegians are not to be trusted. I'll give you all the attention you desire.

Don't do it Monty!  She'll violently extract your soul and throw it away!    (I kid, I kid!).

#93  Utah is cleaning up on California's demise, so that's encouraging for us now that we've fled LA.

The only downside to that is that too many fleeing Californians retain their liberal voting habits and try to make their new locales into mini-socialist hell-holes. 

91 As long as issuers back their currencies with a hard backing (gold, silver, or other commodity), there's no reason the currency itself can't be of some pretty far-out kinds. (I'm thinking of things like personalized currency, "art" currency, special-use currency -- rather like videogame tokens, only backed by real money -- and so on. THere's a whole universe of possibilities out there when you don't have to fart around with the "legal tender" idea.) Posted by: Monty at November 10, 2010 09:43 AM (4Pleu) For an equivalent example, would that be like Itchy and Scratchy bucks? Or something like Disney Dollars to be spent in the parks?

92 So you support Ron Paul dollars? Have you lost your mind? Pfft. I speak of the Ace of Space currecy, discussed here at length several months back. It is based around the Gold Moron, and of course the mighty Gold Buffoon. For day to day use, the silver Dullard is the coin of choice.

93 Re the private currency -- we have this kind of thing all the time already. We just don't think of it as such. Videogame tokens, subway tokens, the old stamp-books, grocery-store coupons, gift certificates -- there are all kinds of currency-like devices out there. I just want to formalize them and base them on hard money. It wouldn't be all that hard. Example: I currently spend probably 20% or better of my discretionary income on books, movies, music, and other suchlike from Amazon. And since I have Amazon Prime, I don't pay shipping for most of that stuff. All of my purchases are done via my credit card. So really, what would be the difference to me if I was tendering payment in AmazonBucks (or MontyBucks, or whatever) rather than USD? As long as I know the exchange-rate, there's no real difference at all.

94 I stopped going to Hot Air after their ads started giving the wonderful gift of trojans. How far Ed and Allah fell down the eeyore hole the last few years is still a sight to behold. Wonder what Michelle thinks?

95 Ace of Space God, I cannot type today.... Ace! In! Spaaaaaaaaace!

96 The only downside to that is that too many fleeing Californians retain their liberal voting habits and try to make their new locales into mini-socialist hell-holes.

Well, there's Salt Lake City, but even that district's Rep voted against the bailouts, so they aren't that liberal.  To give you a feel, the mayor of SLC (who by most accounts is something of a moron) ran with a Republican as his Lt. Gov. (unfortunately, she's even less intelligent than he is) in an attempt to seem like a conservative. 

I think that the brand of conservatism out here is pretty deeply entrenched because the dominant religion here stresses hard work and community service.  There's a friggin' beehive on the state flag!  That gives you a sense for the culture here.  I believe we also have the most liberal gun laws in the country. 

What I have detected is a bit of a weakness on law and order and tilted more toward "compassionate conservatism", again I think because of the religious beliefs which emphasizes forgiveness.  There have been major - life threatening and life taking - drunk driving "accidents" around here and the victims' families and community never seem to get angry about it.  They seem also pre-disposed to take a squishy stand on illegals... that'll be an interesting debate here.  There's been some effort made to do an AZ-style law, but I think the LDS church is against it.  So who will win -- the fiscal conservatives or the compassionate conservatives? 

97 Found this a while back.. Photo essay about Wiemar Germany.. The Dangers of Printing Money http://bit.ly/aNYOPi

98

I would have no idea.. I left there over two years ago. Way too many threads insulting my religion and beliefs. Why hang out someplace where they not only step on my feet but press down and twist with their heel as well?

Posted by: Dave C at November 10, 2010 10:06 AM (poJjg)

Pretty much the same here but every once and a while I go over to see if there is a headline I haven't seen. Like an idiot, I see a thread that I assume the readers will be jumping on for its ridiculous conclusion, click on it and see that not only are they not refuting the stupid allah conclusion but slobbering all over it. I'm sort of surprised that readers of a "in name" conservative blog are that twisted in their world view. The commentors have all decided to lay supine on the floor, slobbering and drooling to allow the palin/beck/jesus hating for allah's numbers? Sick and very LGFB.

99 Posted by: Monty at November 10, 2010 10:18 AM (4Pleu) Ace of Cakes.. That's a good show.

100

I called gold at $750 and didn't have a dime to do anying about it and still don't.  Liberals have finally sealed our fate irrevocably. 

I am left holding nothing but a BAGFILL 'O JAKES!

The Lord is my Shepard, I shall not want ...

101 Meanwhile, across the pond:

Ireland's crisis flares as investors dump bonds

Ireland's financial troubles loomed large Wednesday as investors - betting that the country soon could join Greece in seeking an EU bailout - drove the interest rate on the country's 10-year borrowing to a new high.

The yield on 10-year bonds rose above 8 percent for the first time since the launch of the euro, the European Union's common currency, 11 years ago.

The cost of funding Irish debt has risen steadily since September, when the government admitted its bailout efforts of five banks would cost at least euro45 billion, equivalent to euro10,000 for every man, woman and child in Ireland. That gargantuan bill, in turn, has made the projected 2010 deficit rise to 32 percent of GDP, the highest in post-war Europe.

Ireland's Fate Tied to Doomed Banks

With doubts swirling about the solvency of the Irish state in early September, Finance Minister Brian Lenihan summoned a dozen senior government and bank officials to a conference room nicknamed the "torture chamber," a nod to its history as a venue for painful meetings.

For two years, Ireland had poured money on a raging banking crisis, to no avail. Each estimate of the rising price of rescuing Ireland's banks turned out too low. Mr. Lenihan needed to halt the drip-drip of bad news that was leading his country to ruin. "I want a final figure ASAP," he told the group

Two weeks later, the estimate came in: Up to €50 billion—nearly $50,000 for every household in the Emerald Isle.

But now, investors are betting the bill could be higher still and could reignite Europe's sovereign-debt crisis. The unpopular government is bracing for collapse, and on Tuesday, Irish government bonds continued a week-long slide to a fresh record low. The debt is judged as risky as Greece's was this spring just before that nation begged for a European Union bailout.

102 Wonder what Michelle thinks? Posted by: Gaff at November 10, 2010 10:18 AM (pe9DT) I'm glad I sold that turd off to Townhall when I did

103

105 Posted by: Monty at November 10, 2010 10:18 AM (4Pleu)


Ace of Cakes.. That's a good show.

$1000 is the baseline for a cake from the-- at least they taste good too.

104 O/T:  I'm sensing a theme on CNBS....they keep showing the student's rioting in London.  They have now said the building is being evacuated.  But, the guy with the british accent just said "the republicans keep talking about cuts, well maybe they ought to be looking carefully at what going on in London and knowing it is coming here next"

Geez so was that a threat?

105 Posted by: dagny at November 10, 2010 09:42 AM

If amoebae have a dedicated website somewhere, their commenters will be brighter than those at TepidAir.

You can always depend on scads of knee-jerk reactions to any issue over there. Hordes of religious, pro-Palin, anti-McCain knickers get twisted every time Allahpander goes into snark-mode. Anyone who doesn't worship the very ground Palin walks on, anyone who isn't 110% down with the whole Social Conservative thing, anyone who isn't totally hung up on policy and nuance and strategy is an outcast. Or worse.

I see that sort of stuff here on rare occasions, but for the ultimate in vicious "conservative" behavior, you have to go over to see the "Captain" (and Tennille?) in action.

And that's just the commenters. A lot of the posts there show a level of perception rivaling that of plankton.

106

off topic, as usual

History will be made when Boehner becomes first orange-American Speaker of the House, but will his skin color be distracting?

107 Geez so was that a threat? I said the same thing in my doom-n-gloom essay a while back: that is our future if we don't change our ways. England and France are not yet at the worst stage, and they are already experiencing riots and street-marches. Wait until the pinch really gets serious and people have to start making a choice as to whether to pay taxes or buy food. And we will be in the same boat in five or ten years, barring a miracle. Watch and learn. (Oh, and I'd love to see if the Brits and French are rushing to buy gold, like the Greeks did when their economy went pfut. If so, that would explain the price-spikes recently.)

108 If amoebae have a dedicated website somewhere, their commenters will be brighter than those at TepidAir. YouTube commenters are the slime-molds and fungus of the commentariat, friend. No other container of the written word is as full of utter stupidity, vileness, moronity, vapidity, and sheer pointless evil. It's the rhetorical equivalent of gonorrrhea.

109 YouTube commenters are the slime-molds and fungus of the commentariat, friend. No other container of the written word is as full of utter stupidity, vileness, moronity, vapidity, and sheer pointless evil. It's the rhetorical equivalent of gonorrrhea. Some of the commenters at IMDB might rival that.

110 Posted by: Monty at November 10, 2010 10:41 AM

You read YouTube comments? That's what I call Bravery, Monty!

There should be a medal awarded for that....

111 GM Financial will focus on leasing and subprime car loans, while continuing to rely on Ally and other outside lenders to provide loans to customers with prime credit ratings. What could go wrong? What, I ask you? "We'll sell you a car even if you have shitty credit! Unlike all those other prudent carmakers heartless bastards!" This tells you all you need to know about where Government Motors is headed. I don't even think they believe their own bullshit any more.

112 O/T but tasty: Osama Obama may have his first opponent in '12!

http://bit.ly/d2Jhwj

If he goes through with it, I predict a rush of morons and 'ettes changing party affiliation in time for the primaries.

Could he be any worse than the Mohammedan Mouthpiece? Hellz, no!

113 But, are we "Overdrawn at the Memory Bank??"

114 Monty I remember you saying that, in fact I think you've been saying it but I was just shocked that a commentator on CNBS is saying it, outright.

today Diana Ollick said that people are underwater in their mortgages an average of 23.3% and for the first time she was showing DC on her map.  the intimation was that "it's spreading".   The RE guy she had on was discussing how being underwater in your mortgage cause you to stay in your house therefore a market for "the next house" isn't being created.  Duh.

They had a guy on who is selling his house in CT and throwing in as a bonus his vacation home in Florida.  He is apparently selling it himself on a website.  The only comment he made that I thought was worth repeating is that the neighbors have made comments about his "bare bones" price.   The guy seemed serious about selling.   This is the one time I wish I'd listened to Jim Cramer, over two years ago, when he sold his house and said to sell yours and rent.

115 This is the one time I wish I'd listened to Jim Cramer, over two years ago, when he sold his house and said to sell yours and rent. Cramer is an ass. I use him as a reverse barometer -- whatever he advocates, I do the exact opposite of. Your house is not (should not be) an investment. It's shelter. It's your home, your abode, the place you go to keep the rain off your head. You're only "underwater" on your mortgage if you were planning to sell your house, or paid an outlandish price for it and now can't afford the payments. Otherwise, your house is worth exactly what it was before the crisis -- i.e., what you were willing to pay for it. The worst mania this country has ever had was the notion that you could use your frigging home like an ATM card. Stupid, stupid, stupid.

116 #127 should read "in fact I think you've been saying it for quite a while" instead of "in fact I think you've been saying it"

My fingers aren't listening to my brain this morning, they seem to be in revolt..

117 The smart money is in unobtainium.  We just have to move some blue people off their ancestral homelands first.

118 Posted by: Monty at November 10, 2010 11:04 AM (4Pleu)

I hear what you are saying, however, I know a lot of people in their 50's with kids who did not save a penny for retirement.  These are doctors and lawyers and business men and women.  They were in the NY real estate market and it was "bidding wars" up the wazoo and prices going up and up and running from one house to the next before it went so high you couldn't afford it.  These folks always assumed they would use the profits from the sale of their home to retire.  I'm not saying what they thought was right, I'm just saying this is the reality for more people than not.   Government employees and union guys/gals are in better shape than regular folks either employed in the private sector or having their own practice.  A lot of these people had IRA's and have already broken into them and paid the tax penalties.  Yes the accountants would have a heart attack but they did it nonetheless.  The more I hear the angrier these people are when they see all the union folk being helped and they are being abandoned, no one is helping them keep their house or plan for their retirement and they see ss rapidly disappearing just before they want to retire (if they've kept their job).

119
I would point out that somethign that is always skipped over in talks about other monetary catastrophes, such as Weimar, Zimbabwe, Iceland, Albania, Russia, Mexico, ...  The US dollar is in a totally unique position in world history.  Never before, has one currency (and a fiat one, at that) served as the trade adn reserve currency of the entire world.  There is no replacement for the US dollar - not even in the US, alone, never mind its international functions. . . . The US dollar is far too big to ever be bailed out.  It cannot be.  Period.  When the US dollar slips into hyperinflation, there is no escape for us, as there was for every other such catastrophe.  Not only that, but world trade will grind to an immediate halt, further compounding problems.

I was going to point that out one of these days. The U.S. dollar has a unique, intrinsic value: the faith of the rest of the world in its strength. And that's why, if handled properly, it can work as a viable currency even if it is a fiat currency.

But Obama and Bernanke just destroyed that. We're drilling a hole in the bottom of the best ship at sea while in the middle of a cyclone. The fat lady will be singing soon.

120 Peter Schiff is a big proponent of the "rent instead of buy" mindset, but I still don't think there's anything wrong with buying if you don't plan to move anytime soon. If you plan to move within 10 years or so, yeah, you're probably better off renting. That whole "stick around for a couple of years and then cash out the equity" model is gone for a long, long time -- maybe forever.

121 These folks always assumed they would use the profits from the sale of their home to retire.

Some of them did. I have an elderly couple from NY living behind me that retired in NY, sold their house, and moved here to small town SC.

Of course they did that before the market collapsed.

122 Rent vs buy??? That is totally dependent on local conditions. There are only a few parts of the country in which real estate went through the bubble and then collapsed. If you are not in one of those parts of the country, in general and if not planning on moving within 5 years, you are better off buying.

123

The US dollar is far too big to ever be bailed out.  It cannot be.  Period. 

This is what really gets me when the idiots who support monetizing the debt just claim that we can deal with the destruction of the dollar just as all of the other nations have done with their currencies, before this.  But that analogy is in serious error. 

Posted by: iknowtheleft at November 10, 2010 10:36 AM (G/MYk)

Regarding a dollar bail out, obviously not only can it not be done, it would not be done.  The US will never be substantially aided by any other nation under any circumstance.  We were fools to put so much effort into saving others from themselves and each other over the years, starting with our woefully misguided entry into WW1.

The monetization of US debt is indeed regretable, but no matter what remedy is used we're going to have big trouble world wide.  All involve the US spending a lot less and letting the parasitic export economies fail.  We don't have the political will to do what must be done to radically cut government spending.  We can't raise taxes any higher without destroying the recovery.  We could shrink the military, but any reduction big enough to help solve matters financially would conceed the game to our multitudinous enemies, who are always looking for signs of weakness to exploit.

So, aside from currency debasement, which carries some hope of bringing with it some industrial revitalization, and also has the nice side benefit of screwing our foreign creditors, what is to be done?  Who has the solution? 

124

I understand the rent vs. buy arguement from the standpoint of pure economics, but that's not all that comes into play in real life.  Psychologically, a rented dwelling is not "home" in much (most?) of our culture.  It creates rootlessness.  Areas that are heavily rented always show it - the level of interest in  property maintenance is typically low.  Maintaining a rental property in tip-top shape doesn't really benefit the land lord much.  Also, peoples' voting habits in local elections are divorced from the long term implications of the measures they vote on - after all, they can always just move if they don't like how things are going later on.  If you want to live somewhere for any period of time, and you value a nice environment, you're going to seek areas where most people own their homes.  Sadly, the modern economy, with its constant demand for mobility, is making ownership less and less viable for many people.

This is part of why encouraging home ownership by owner-friendly policy serves the greater good.  That's not to say it's good at any price.  But the mortgage interest deduction (which should have had some cap on it) was not a bad thing in itself.  It was the encouragement of lending to those who could not or would not repay their debt that caused the current mess.

 

125 this post iz stupid your a fag lol

126 136 Who has the solution? 

Posted by: Reactionary at November 10, 2010 11:31 AM (xUM1Q)

My two cents:

Start the ball rolling on spending reductions with the low hanging fruit like defunding NPR, NEH, etc.

As public enthusiasm for more cuts is expressed, go on the partially - and then fully - defunding the Department of Education, etc. No need to get into a pissing match about abolishing a department if we can simply gut it, driving staff to quit and lowering the budget until its 2% of what it was in 2008.

Make MBSs illegal. Require 20% down on every mortgage going forward. Require mortgage originators to hold mortgages. Legislate our way back to a more sane time. There's a lot we can do here.

Perhaps these are small steps, but if we can do these, we might get the public to back the larger, harder things that need to be done, like tackling Social Security.

127

A default is far preferable to monetization.  With a default, the integrity and utility of the currency is maintained - which is an absolute necessity. 

Posted by: iknowtheleft at November 10, 2010 11:38 AM (G/MYk)

No one can predict the outcome with any certainty, but I suspect the consequences of default would be more dire than you imagine.  First off, I can't imagine any creditor nation would fail to immediately nationalize all US owned businesses on their soil.  I would be shocked if the US didn't find itself suffering fairly brutal retaliation in trade policy world wide.  We'd also be giving the shaft to all those Americans who own government debt - instead of something (inflated dollars), they'd get nothing.  Next, there would be zero government borrowing in the near term (maybe not a bad thing in itself) and then the deficits would have to be solved instantly, rather than gradually, or else we'd be right back to printing money. 

I'm not sure the goal of saving the currency would be served by defaulting on the debt.

128

Posted by: Josef K. at November 10, 2010 11:45 AM (7+pP9)

I think those are solid starting proposals.  They won't do the job by themselves, but like you say - they'll prepare the mind of the public for the harder work to come.

129

I think you are forgetting China's merchantilist trade policy; export alot, restrict imports.  Opening up China's market should be the priority.  The Chinese love American cars, but because of import duties and other taxes on cars and most other products we cannot compete.

It certainly is not all our fault, but obviously Obama is destroying the economy, but a restricted market in China is a larger problem, since GM and Ford should be exporting huge amounts of cars to China.  Then look at the political decision by the Chinese government to restrict purchase of Boeing products and the demand for technology export.

China is playing a rough game regarding trade and we should be playing harder.  Note that Bush did not play tough with China on opening up to American exports either.

130 As long as issuers back their currencies with a hard backing (gold, silver, or other commodity), there's no reason the currency itself can't be of some pretty far-out kinds. (I'm thinking of things like personalized currency, "art" currency, special-use currency -- rather like videogame tokens, only backed by real money -- and so on.

Thousands of issuers of "personalized currency" would turn commerce into a nightmare of inefficiency and fraud.  Who verifies the existence, let alone the value, of your pez collection-backed Monty bux?  If there's a fire in your tool shed/repository does that mean all my Monty bux are now worthless?

If you would rather hold asset backed paper than US dollars, you can do that right now from your computer and an e-trade account.  There are ETF's & ETN's backed by everything from gold to coffee to palladium to crude oil.  They have the added advantage of being easily and inexpensively converted to any other currency.  There really is no need to reinvent the wheel.

131 To Teh Krugman, it's never enough.

I'll bet that if he were to receive the much-deserved flying roundhouse kick to the side of his head, he'd immediately say it was enough...

132 Californians seem to be so punch-drunk at this point that inertia is their default position. Their plans for deliverance now rest on the "and then a miracle happens!" theory.

A good guess would be that they're hoping their high-tech sector will somehow bail them out, which is unlikely.

133 147 A good guess would be that they're hoping their high-tech sector will somehow bail them out, which is unlikely.
______________

Burt Rutan will save us by selling spaceships to Branson.

134 Who verifies the existence, let alone the value, of your pez collection-backed Monty bux? Your mockery of my innovative pez-backed currency regime cuts me deep.

135 If you adjust for inflation (as you always should with the USD), gold was fetching about $2,300/oz back in the halcyon days of 1979.

That means that gold--contrary to the goldbugs' keeening--is NOT a good investment, since the metal hasn't managed to recoup its inflation-adjusted value after 31 years.  The only utility that gold and silver possess is speculative value, if you can find a bigger sucker to sell your Scrooge McDuck-style Vault o' Richez (Bitchez) to before everybody else catches on.  When the SHTF, gold is useless...you can't eat it or drink it and it has little use in a SHTF scenario other than decorative jewelry.

Bah! 

136 @iknowtheleft

Of course there can be intentional debasement.  It's happened before and could easily happen again.  The government, via an unconstitutional declaration, arbitrarily fixes the value of gold at $X. 

That's beside my point, though.  Gold is relatively rarer than, say, lead, but it isn't scarce any more than diamonds are.  There is no rational reason that it is valued so highly.  Gas futures?  Yeah, I need that stuff, and so does everybody else.  Gold?  Not so much.

Anyway.  Didn't want to get too off-topic.  Your point is taken and understood.  My point is that there is no justification for gold to be different from any other substance, and certainly no reason that it is a "good store of value" in inflationary times.  The fact that the dupes who bought it in the late 1970s are still upside-down on the metal is proof of that.

137 Shakespeare declared absolutely nothing is either bad or good, but thinking can make it so. In the same way, delight is one area that in mind. It truly is proverbial that on the globe is long for happiness, everyone is seeking it as well as there's no certain strategy for finding it. For contentment brings about unique definitions to be able to person. Very easy be based upon the external conditions but is based on the inner thoughts among us.