1 Count me in!

2 I'm actually shocked the D number is that high.

3 Never happen.  Teh legislators respect the will of the people to elect whomever they wish to elect to deprive them of the right to send the same tired asshole back to Congress over and over for decades. 
And there's the pork.

4 I'm actually shocked the D number is that high.

Most lifelong democrats I know believe the Pelosi congress is populated by imbeciles.  Ogabe/Pelosi/Reid have really pissed in the Holy Water when it comes to traditional democrats.

5 Most lifelong democrats I know believe the Pelosi congress is populated by imbeciles.  Ogabe/Pelosi/Reid have really pissed in the Holy Water when it comes to traditional democrats.

That's a plus, I guess. But are they going to take back their party from the fringe Left and the "progressives"?

6 But are they going to take back their party from the fringe Left and the "progressives"?

I'm not sure they want it back anymore.  Its very hard to "rehabilitate" a brand that has been so completely discredited in the public's mind.

7 Its very hard to "rehabilitate" a brand that has been so completely discredited in the public's mind.

Has it, though? I guess November will answer that. I imagine in another 30 years enough people will have forgotten. It seems to be a curse and a blessing that American memories are short.

8 Unfortunately, the Supreme Court shot down term limits. On the other hand, given the sheer numbers, we could ram through an amendment to keep the bastards from getting entrenched.

9 This is cool to me because term limits is my favorite idea for congress. I know it won't fix everything, but I still like it. Term limits used to be pretty popular with the republican establishment right up until 1994 or '96 or whatever year they got a majority, then all of a sudden it's like... errr, term whats? Even if we don't have an elected ruling class/royalty, we still will have an entrenched bureaucracy of lifer civil servant/public employee thugs to deal with.

10 The most important implication of this is that incumbent Dems are politically DEAD in November.

11 I'm predicting ~20 years of volatility in congress.  This "recession" (i.e. public sector depression) is going to be with us for a very long time, and there are no "quick fixes" left in the government's bag of tricks.  They've all been used up.

They could always release the punitive regulatory and tax burdens shackling American industry and we could in theory earn/grow our way out of this, but I put the chances of that happening vanishingly close to zero.

12 btw, check Drudge out. Dems have now started to sort out who to save and who to dump for the midterms to hold onto the House. Their strategy to protect the House is- to throw members under the bus. Brilliant. Just brilliant. RCP shows 112 somewhat vulnerable Democrats. They show 89 that are at best (for them) leaning as holding their seats. Of them, 66 are tossups or already leaning republican Of them 31 are leaning or likely republican. Republicans need <1/3 of the tossup races to win the House,and holding onto current projected pickups. I have a feeling "cutting 20 seats loose" won't be enough.

13 Let's be sporting. If/When they file for re-election roll a 6 sided die. If a 2-6 comes, no problem. If they roll a one, execute 'em on the spot. Then we'll see who's really dedicated to public service.

14

**Term limits used to be pretty popular with the republican establishment right up until 1994 or '96 or whatever year they got a majority, then all of a sudden it's like... errr, term whats?**

It was about the time that Dick Armey said that they fulfilled their Contract with America pledge, that they had only promised a vote on term limits, not that they had promised to actually pass term limits, that I stopped being a "Republican," and was henceforth merely a conservative.

15 I'm not surprised and I doubt that is much higher than normal.

16 According to Insty, several states are talking about "right to hunt" amendments.

Put both these stories together, and you have bag limits for legislators.

17 The United States Congress: Almost as popular as British Petroleum

18 I do not agree that Canada is to the North of the US. I scoff at that notion. I believe it would be correct to say that Canada is "above" or "on top" of the US. Because they have Molson, and black men speaking French.

19 You need more time in the private sector (not including lobbying) than public sector. 

20 @17.. except you can't cap these muffugga's and get away with it.

21 that's great. good fuckin luck getting the assholes who are currently in congress, witha NINETYEIGHTFUCKINGPERCENT re-election rate to go along.

22

There is way to "term limit" congress. Vote the parasites out! The voters get a chance to dump the House every 2 freakin' years!

The fact that scum like Pelosi, Rangel, Waters, Dingle, Frank, etc. keep getting re-elected shows their is no bottom to the well of human stupidity.  

23 Marc Rubio's father died, saw it at Hot Air.

24

California is still screwed up with term limits.  I am not convinced it is a good thing. 

I want to see the polling numbers for people who want fair legislative districting.  Imagine if the system wasn't rigged, then the good ones would keep their jobs and the bums would be swept out.

 

 

25 "several states are talking about "right to hunt" amendments."

If it means a right to hunt politicians, I'm all for it!

26 Is anyone aware of why there aren't several concerted "Amendment" movements underway now? Seriously. This one is a no-brainer. Inserting an audit of the Federal Reserve should be easy. There are others that don't even touch on things like codifying exactly what the hell the Commerce Clause is and isn't. How can one go about getting this ball rolling? Why not a branch of the Tea Party? I dimly remember the ERA fight, but it was practically over by the time I was paying much attention. We need another Phyllis Schalfly, this time in reverse.

27 Oh, and one other thought: Allow states to file for bankruptcy.

28 Cal Red-- Computers should draw all the maps using traditional landmarks, not just where the clusters of minority voters and Democrats are. Re-do them from scratch every 10 years. If Congresscritters wind up in one another's districts, tough. One of them will need to find another job after the primary.

29 You will never see another amendment to the Constitution other than something silly like a right to health care.  It would take convincing a lot of bureaucrats to even get a chance to have one and they hate amendments. Amendments serve only one function which is to limit or in someway tell bureaucrats how they can operate. They do not want limits. The Founding Fathers did well in the rules for passing them but that time has passed. You will never get 2/3s of politicians to agree on any but the most innocuous things or their own raises.

30

This is probably not good news for Rahall, Tanner, Edwards, Mollohan, Boucher, Spratt, Skelton, Holden, and Pomeroy who have all been in Congress for at least 17 years (not counting this year) and represent districts that are Cook R+6 or more conservative.

31

BLOP! BBBBLOP!

I confess readily, that I am a guy who already liked to yell bbbblop.

BBBBLOP!

Take that!

 

 

32 13 Let's be sporting. If/When they file for re-election roll a 6 sided die. If a 2-6 comes, no problem. If they roll a one, execute 'em on the spot. Then we'll see who's really dedicated to public service. Cut. Jib. Newsletter.

33 I want to see the polling numbers for people who want fair legislative districting.

I think that this right here is the answer.  Some districts are connected by only a road in places, or even the ocean.  It seems to me that if you just went by sane population grids, the term limits issue would pretty much solve itself. That way you'd still have blue and red areas, but not this job-for-life bullshit.  I wonder what kind of reform would be necessary for this to happen--Constitutional amendment?

The Founders really did not design the system for lifelong politicians.  Yes, many of them were lifelong public servants, but that had a totally different meaning.  It meant long periods of time, years even, separated from family, with not a tremendous amount of pay, and they all had to keep their original lines of work going in addition to their political gigs.  It really was a sacrifice. The idea was to come in from the field or the doctor's office, serve maybe 2-3 terms, and go back to the farm.  John Adams still practiced law, George Washington farmed at Mount Vernon, and Jefferson was continually fucking around with Monticello.  Of course somebody had to stick around long enough to be President, but that usually involved a reasonable upward trajectory through the levels of government and pretty much required at least proving oneself in one's profession first (*cough*TOONCES*cough*.) 

Dynasty accusations aside, with his business background, W is somewhat closer to what the Founders had in mind-- be in some sort of non-political line of WORK, serve, go the FUCK home and give somebody else a chance.

34 By my count there are 23 'rats who voted for Obamacare in districts that are  rated by Cook as Even or more red and are rated by RCP as toss up or lean D. If the Republicans hold on to all the seats they are now favored to win they need only pick up a majority of these 23 districts to win back the House.

35 I'm happy to see, perhaps based on a flawed sample, that most of my fellow citizens aren't in fact stupid. Sadly, though, to get the kind of solution to this basic governance problem would take a minimum of two turns of the seats in the Senate, since all the changes that are most important right now require Congress to vote against its own self-interest. Auditing the Fed is a stupid thing to have an an amendment (no offense to Wookie above, really, or to any Paultards reading this). However, codifiying a term limit, ensuring that Congress cannot opt out of the laws they pass on us, or opt in to things they don't allow us to have, and an end to gerrymandering would all be reasonable parts of a single additional amendment. Gerrymandering, in particular, is a problem. I object to the fact it's done to promote minority representation, (preferring instead that whatever minorities don't feel fully enfranchised should just cluster together themselves), but I object more to the fact that the old boys' network in both parties can use this blunt instrument to protect themselves from competition. Lifetime pensions and benefits for single term representatives are likewise abhorrent, but in a properly constructed Congress, could be changed without constitutional alteration.

36 I'm against term limits.

37 That's because Canada is the 51st state.

38 @36 - against term limits, why?

39 O/T:  don't read this unless you want to get totally pissed off.

40

 

show us yer tits!

 

41 I tend to be against them too, at least in principle - under the theory that morons should be allowed to elect whatever representative they want (and logically if they continue to want the same person they should be able to). If that results in Bawney Fwank or the Corruptocrat Trifecta of Charlie Rangel, Eric Massa, and Maxine Waters, well then that reflects on the idiocy of that district. On the other hand, maybe the time has come for that principle to no longer fit the times. I don't know. Certainly things aren't going well but I'm just uncomfortable with the idea.

42 The thing is... people favor term limits for *other* members of Congress, not their own.   If they favored it for their own they'd elect someone else.

It does make sense, though.   Even if your Congressman is Murtha and you hate him with a passion, electing someone else means losing all of his seniority, all of his committee rank, and all of his connections and ability to bring pork home to your district.

If everyone was forced to lose that built up influence maybe people would be more willing to give up what their own set of scum bags have accumulated.

43 Seems to me that throwing tweaks at the districting process would be easier than trying to define what landmarks would or would not be allowable. How about "all districts are entirely convex"? You should not be able to draw a line between any two points in a district and cross over some other district.

44 @36 - I fear the unintended consequences.  Imagine what kind of laws they'd pass if, say, a third of them were lame ducks.  Sounds dangerous.

45 Also... seems kind  of a cop out, oh.. lets pass a law to automatically get rid of them b/c the electorate can't be bothered to look for alternatives.

46 Even if your Congressman is Murtha and you hate him with a passion, electing someone else means losing all of his seniority, all of his committee rank, and all of his connections and ability to bring pork home to your district.

If term limits meant no more Boxer and Feinstein I'd dance a jig. They don't bring shit back to CA.

47 Although, in all honesty, I do think the gerrymandering is the bigger issue. But it's ridiculous that the likes of Byrd and Kennedy lived in the Senate their entire lives.

48 _{"Obama Must Create 230,000 Jobs A Month Until The End Of His Second Term For Return To Breakeven - Charting The New "7 Year Itch" Normal"}

49 Amendment? Bah. Time for a Convention!

50 Wanted: Dead or Alive the one with Rutger Hauer, actually has Muslim Terrorists trying to set-off a chemical bomb in L.A.   Made in 1987, I guess before Hollywood decided to suck Muslim cock.  I mean this movie ends with Rutger Hauer catching the main terrorist and sticking a Grenade in his mouth, then turning him over to the Feds.  He gets a bonus if he brings him in alive.  But instead he pulls the pin and walks away and says, "fuck the bonus."  Movie ends with terrorist screaming Allah, just before his head blows off. 

51 The American Public is having another temper-tantrum. 

52 I hope the tea parties make a big deal out of the redistricting fight next year.  Force them to obey logical demarcations... oh, say by county!

53 Because they have Molson, and black men speaking French.

So does Haiti.

54 California is still screwed up with term limits. I am not convinced it is a good thing. I want to see the polling numbers for people who want fair legislative districting That's the ticket. Term limits mean nothing if districts are gerrymandered into an inherited trait of the office. Clownifornia is so stuffed with Demotards in safe districts you could walk from Marin to La Jolla on their heads and never touch the ground.

55 @55 Oh man, when I have a sockpuppet fail, I have a sockpuppet fail.

56 Yes, we should have term limits. We should also have term limits for staff and bureaucrats. No job in Washington should be permanent.

57 California Red: "I want to see the polling numbers for people who want fair legislative districting. Imagine if the system wasn't rigged, then the good ones would keep their jobs and the bums would be swept out."

This.

Gerrymandering is such a bastardized process that voter misrepresentation is its designed purpose.

This is along the lines of jury selection. It's an ideal structure in self-governance that gets destroyed by its handlers. In the Courts an abundance of "peers" are meticulously thrown out for questionable, if not dishonest, reasons. Those maintaining and participating have massaged the system into a dishonest game. Same with Congress and districting. Not the throwing out part but the crafty way they've designed in their bias and barriers to change.

Ideally I'd be against term limits; however, the system is so gamed that the ideal does not exist. It cannot exist because those in charge or those who enter the system to take charge refuse to reconstruct that which they aim to join. It's corrupt. I actually think it's irredeemably corrupt and the voters have made it so. Go figure.

58 The problem with gerrymandering could be resolved by reducing the size of the districts and increasing the number of congressman. Representatives now have more voters than Senators did when the system was set up.I live in a district that crosses 5 counties. I would say that Representatives should be assigned based on county boundaries with a minimum of one and then so many per 10 thousand.

59 "Obama Must Create 230,000 Jobs A Month Until The End Of His Second Term For Return To Breakeven - Charting The New "7 Year Itch" Normal" Well, that last chart makes me want to drink bleach. I'll be dead by the time we crawl out of Barry's collateral economic damage.

60 The thing is if we want term limits it will take an Article V convention. Congress will NEVER vote them in.

Congress has done everything they can do to make incumbency a standard and not the exception. That is what McCain Fiegngold was all about. It was an incumbency protection racket. They are now trying to pass another version of it after SCOTUS finally got around to crushing it.

This election is going to have the highest turnover in congress that has happened in many decades. But look what it took to get it. The idiots took over and turned up the flame on the pot to high boil and the frogs noticed it for a change.

61 Isn't Peter Jennings a little on the dead side?

62

Term limits are a last resort.  If we are going to change the consitution I think  the best way to get control of our government back is to reduce  the time between elections  form 2year to 1 year for Congress and 6 years to 3 for Senators.   If the Congress had to face the voters every year there would be no embracing liberalism on the off year elections.  

 

Term limits create lame duck Congresscritters who will have no reason to worry about the wrath of the voters  and will instead pass every liberal wet dream bill they can and pad their pockets on their way out. 

 

but if its the only choice  then fine I'll support them. 

 

 

63 Congressional pensions should start paying off at 70, or at 20 years after the bastard leaves office, whichever comes last.

Vested pensions should start small for first-termers, climb slowly over six terms (two for senators) and max out after 12 years' service.

Pensions should be forfeited for any official convicted of bribery, perjury, misprision, misuse of public funds, vote or registration fraud, accepting campaign donations from overseas companies or individuals.

64 No "solution" will work.  None.  Not term limits, not redistricting reform, nothing, as long as the federal government is too big.
As long as there is slop in the trough, the pigs will find a way to feed.
It's like the so-called "credit card reform"-- it just made everything with every one of my cards worse, more restrictive, more annoying.  Any other cobbled-together fix that congress or the people create to pile layers of regulation on deeper layers of regulation will just create more opportunities for malfeasance.  It's basic economics--if there's money in something, someone will find a way to extract it.
All efforts should be directed toward shrinking the government. Do this, and all the other problems will fix themselves.

65

Term limits and a salary cap in baseball.  Put them both in and you have fixed the country.

66 One other thing is to restore the qualification to vote to only people who pay taxes.

67 I see Hobama is getting ready to throw away another huge round of taxpayer money to "underwater mortgages". Hell, after two failures WTF, why not make it three?

He is using the TARP slush fund to this. You know, all that money the tax payers were supposed to make a profit on.  That fund that has not been used remotely like what the bill authorized it to be used for.

IOW, they are violating the law routinely now and with impunity knowing that nobody will hold them accountable.

That should be day three of the House. Recall ALL unspent TARP funds.

68 Posted by: The Pricker! at September 05, 2010 07:30 AM (0EfeF)

Never seen a comment by this guy before, and that's a shame.  You're on the money.

69 Term Limits are a self-delusional, Red Herring for the Right. Keep fielding strong conservative candidates in Primaries and Washington will pay attention. Term limits will only create an enormously powerful class of mandarins on the Congressional staff beholden to state party leaders (if anyone at all). Trust me, I used to work on the Hill - the professionals love the idea of a bunch of rookies pulling the levers.

70 Term limits will only create an enormously powerful class of mandarins on the Congressional staff beholden to state party leaders (if anyone at all).

That is why I included "term limits" for them as well. In addition, the number of staff positions needs to be reduced by 75%.

71

"That's a plus, I guess. But are they going to take back their party from the fringe Left and the "progressives"?"

No, they are not.

I was a lifelong dem, a JFK conservative dem, these people are not dems, heck many times they don't even act like Americans.  The demon-rat party can go down the toilet for all I care, after voting for a demon-rat for over 3 decades, the party is done, it is not worth saving, these people are now full on radicals, socialists,  america-hating lunatics.

And no, this does not mean those that fled the demon-rat party are republican, most of us are constitutional conservative Independents, socially moderate/centerist, but very very conservative when it comes to the adherance of the US Constitution, fiscal, defense, indiv rights, etc.

I wish I could scan in the letters I get from the DNC, pleading and begging that if the repubs like Issa take over, there will be investigations like they did with Bill Clinton, I frankly did think the repubs went overboard with Clinton, and feel this time the repubs will be very good after going after all the legimate issues, ACORN, Black Panthers cases, etc, and heck there are so many!

72 The sole reason for wanting term limits is that you don't trust the electorate to get rid of bad public officials.

If you have an untrustworthy electorate, and "fix it" with term limits, you will just get inexperienced bad public officials (meaning they will be both corrupt - and incompetent to fix the occasional real problem).

The real problem you perceive, when you say you want term limits, is a stupid electorate.  Nothing will change until you fix that.  First step is to recognize the real problem - not its symptom.  And the real problem is one-man-one-vote, "enacted" by the Warren Court somewhere around the early '60s.  Until then, you had the Constitutional form of government called a "Republic".  (The US Constitution, even including the post-Civil War amendments, does not require one-man-one-vote; look at the US Senate - probably the most unrepresentative legislative body on the face of the planet.)

In fact, political voting should be like corporate voting: if you have more responsibility for the success of the enterprise, you get more say in how it's run.  So, give everyone one vote for every dollar he pays in tax.  Far as I know, that's the way every private enterprise in the world operates; not a single one has been dumb enough to socialize its corporate voting.

Requiring property ownership, and literacy, would be a minimal step forward - you know, like it used to be before the Warren Court came along.  Ike was a good President, but he sure fucked up with that appointment.

73 Currently the cesspool of a congress is dysfunctional. They spend 90% of their time collecting campaign money,never mind that almost all of them run unapposed. The staff of the committee heads write the bills putting in stuff for every special interest group that has contributed to their man or who they owe "favors".

They vote on the bill having no idea what is actually in it. When questioned they lie. They get by with this because we have no press coverage of the shenanigans unless it is a Republican doing the stuff.

In fact, when a Republican tries to expose some of this graft and corruption it is either played off as "partisan politics" or when caught red-handed "everybody does it".

74 I frankly did think the repubs went overboard with Clinton,

I don't think they went far enough. He is not in jail where he belongs.

75 78% are fools in this case. Term limits are bad. They transfer power to unelected officials and bureaucrats and force good experienced legislators out of office. We tried them in Michigan, and you can see the results.

76 They transfer power to unelected officials and bureaucrats and force good experienced legislators out of office

As I said, term limit the bureaucrats and staff as well. And there are very few "good" legislators".

77

@16

Put both these stories together, and you have bag limits for legislators.

That reminds me of an old H. Beam Piper short story from the 1950's or '60's ("Lone Star Planet" ?):  it was not necessarily murder to commit the willful killing of a politician.  The killer merely had to establish that the politician was taking official action that would infringe on individual liberty.

Net result -- the pols pretty much universally supported very limited government.

78

"I don't think they went far enough. He is not in jail where he belongs. "

I don't.  I voted for him, both times.  I also voted for Reagan both times.

If the repubs really are stupid enough to go after Obama on everything, no matter how tiny, especially with the MSM acting like Obama's campaign, people will be mad, hell just look at the coverage now.

I was in my doc's office, they had MSNBC on (**shuddering**), and some idiot comes on so unhappy that if the repubs take over, there will more investigatations and will cause the WH to lose focus, really?  "lose focus", from what?  playing golf??

And this is not saying the repubs should not go hard after Obama, hell there is so much to investigate, I'm just saying I don't want the repubs to go overboard or at the very least not make it personal.  Issa seems to be a very calm speaker, so I trust him to go after Obama's illegallity of so much nonsense very hard, but without making it personal. So voters will be happy someone is invesstigating all this, at the same time there will be no sympathy from the public, people will want the truth to be expose and any illegal stuff to be dealt with in a professional manner.

And frankly, Bill Clinton, and I had many issues with him, was a Bubba-type likeable guy. Obama is not, Obama acts like an American-loathing jerk, people sense this, he is an elitist and that is how he comes off.

79

In addition to term limits...it should be law that Congress cannot exempt themselves from any law they pass...or where they are automatically exempt, make sure they correct that...

...one thing that just completely gets my blood pressure up is that Congress allows themselves to be exempt from insider trading laws.  The SEC, by law, cannot regulate Congress....and Congress refuses to pass laws to make it illegal to trade on inside information.

A 2004 report from Georgia State University showed that United States Senators received annual investment returns that were approximately 25% higher than what typical Americans were able to achieve.

That stat involves certain individual years...but the same study shows that the averaged overall is they outperform by 12%

Pofessional investors only outperform the average by about 6%..

Whenever one of these cocksuckers stands up and lectures about the evil Wall Streeters..I just want to kick their fucking teeth in

80 Term limits happen every two to four to six years depending on the politicians term. Does it strike anyone who is a constitutional conservative that this is what the left does? We don't like something let's pass a law.

How about everybody gets off their ass and work to defeat whatever idiot that they want defeated. I know it is much tougher than "Let's pass a law" but that's what political engagement looks like. Not just on election day but on everyday in between election day. Also in a country the size of the US yes you will always get an Al Franken or Barney Frank but that's democracy.

81

"And frankly, Bill Clinton, and I had many issues with him, was a Bubba-type likeable guy. Obama is not, Obama acts like an American-loathing jerk, people sense this, he is an elitist and that is how he comes off."

and there is no need to create a sympathetic "poor whittle Obama, the mean ol' repubs are after him" storyline

everything illegal that has been done needs to be investigated, but done in a professional, non-personal manner. From what I have seen of Issa, I trust him, like I said, he seems very calm and to the point, without making anything personal. 

82

the only solution I could recommend, is that you serve 6 yrs (1 term as senator), or 3 terms for a congressperson

but then, you have to sit out the next 6 years, and then run again for 6 years after that.  This way it really isn't term limits as much as it is spreading it out.

Of course then the problem is you might have a pelosi for 6 years, handover to a pelosi-clone for the next 6, and then pelosi comes back in 6 years.

I really cannot figure out a solution, b/c there are people who are good stewarts, good public servants, like Paul Ryan and Jim DeMint, who if their voters like them, I don't think their terms should be limited.

83
They could always release the punitive regulatory and tax burdens shackling American industry and we could in theory earn/grow our way out of this, but I put the chances of that happening vanishingly close to zero.
------

We're living out Atlas Shrugged, and I don't remember that part of the story.

84

The problem with term limits is they get the good ones, too. Baby, bathwater ... some assembly required.

Meanwhile, only 10 percent of registered voters show up for the primaries.

Primaries = term limits. There's your solution, right there.

85 "And frankly, Bill Clinton, and I had many issues with him, was a Bubba-type likeable guy.

Bill Clinton was one of the biggest crooks to every hold office. The impeachment offenses were only a small fraction of the actual things he and Hillary were involved in. He put the hated Richard Nixon to shame for being a crook. Now he looks good because Obama is an even bigger crook.

You should read Ann Coulter's book about Clinton. She has a lot of his shit well documented.

86 I fart  in your general direction!

87 Why does the federal govt pay congress people? Shouldn't that be the responsibility of the state they represent? Also, all states should chip in to buy or build a dormitory for congresspeople to live in while congress is in session.

88 I'd like to see a poll addressing how many congresspersons are outright criminals that need to pay restitution and go to jail, along with their cronies.

89 I understand all the intended/expected benefits of term limits, but it still leaves a bad taste in my mouth. Like we're giving up by acknowledging that the American people are so hopeless that they need a law to tell them who to vote for.

90 75 Heh, staff limits might mean they might actually have to read and write their own bills for a change.

Why don't we make them defend their bills in a formal hearing, with people chosen randomly, or by having specific knowledge about the subject of the bill.  Sort of like a thesis defense, or how town halls were intended to work, but with the people in control and with videotaping encouraged.  They would quickly expose the bill's sponsors for the know-nothings they are. 

I would use the Parliamentary model of questions for the PM, but that still leaves things in the hands of the political class, and they clearly can't be trusted.

91 sensitive new age guys apparently can't handle sock puppets.

92 98 It has begun.  Barry is failing because he's not really black.
Posted by: toby928 at September 05, 2010 09:21 AM


Does this mean the NAACP is throwing Barry under the bus?

93 OT: I wasn't around yesterday so I apologize if this has already been discussed but:

snip~

The Las Vegas Review-JournalÂ’s copyright infringement lawsuit partner on Friday sued U.S. Senate candidate Sharron Angle over R-J material posted on her website, allegedly without authorization.

The suit, filed in U.S. District Court in Las Vegas by Righthaven LLC, seeks damages of $150,000 against Angle personally and forfeiture of her website domain name sharronangle.com.

http://tinyurl.com/2wscduy

94 The suit, filed in U.S. District Court in Las Vegas by Righthaven LLC

What I would like to see is a counter-suit that would bankrupt these shysters.

95

That reminds me of an old H. Beam Piper short story from the 1950's or '60's ("Lone Star Planet" ?): it was not necessarily murder to commit the willful killing of a politician. The killer merely had to establish that the politician was taking official action that would infringe on individual liberty.

Posted by: Retired Buckeye Cop at September 05, 2010 08:33 AM (S2+uh)

I don't recall the original source of the quote - probably L. Niel Smith - but it went to the effect that on a particular world, killing a politician wasn't considered malum prohibitorum (a legal offense), and was only considered malum in se (an inherent offense) to the extent that what the politician got was in excess of what he deserved.

Different sort of term limits, mind you.

96 Well, "malum" is more sort of evil / bad action that "offense," but whatevs.

97 Damn, -23 on Rasmussen today for THE ONE.  He always does worse on the weekends.

Also, on Gallup he dumped 3 points in one day yesterday to 43 overall.  The thing that is surprising is that all of this is happening despite a rally in the stock market, lowering gas prices, better-than-expected employment numbers and the end to hostilities in Iraq.

98 California has term limits, pretty much intended to relieve ourselves of Willie Brown.  Look at California now.  The result of California term limits has not been the remedy offered at the time.  Lets not inflict another "great idea" from California on the rest of the nation.

99 Term limits are a nice idea. Redistricting along neutral lines are good too. But really the main thing is severely reducing the number of bureaucrats along rational lines- SUPERULTRAMEGA-REAGAN!!! AND THE POWER OF THE PYRAMID

100 What I would like to see is a counter-suit that would bankrupt these shysters.

Posted by: Vic at September 05, 2010 09:34 AM (/jbAw)

No shit!  I don't understand how these cases aren't thrown out of court.  If every news organization in the US did this there would be little or no internet blog/forum content....wait....uh...oh!

101

California has term limits, pretty much intended to relieve ourselves of Willie Brown.  Look at California now.

It's not the people, it's the kind of people, eh?

102 Instead of term limits, how about eliminate congressional districting entirely.  All of them become congress-critters-at-large.   Everyone gets one vote, and votes for the candidate of their choice.  The candidates with the most votes win the seats.  No more 'safe' districts.  No more gerrymandering. 

103 The candidates with the most votes win the seats. No more 'safe' districts. No more gerrymandering. The big cities (LA, NY, Detroit, Chicago, etc.) would dominate entire states, leading to a huge and permanent Democrat majority.

104 We'll never see term limits passed as law. NEVER...it just ain't gonna happen because serving in Congress just becomes too lucrative. Congress critters earn around $174,000 a year, with leadership making $194,000 a year. I have a pretty fair idea what standard of living those salaries afford, and these parasites live WELL beyond that standard.

105 Damn, -23 on Rasmussen today for THE ONE.  He always does worse on the weekends.

Which way does the wind blow on weekends? Here, let me lick my finger.

106 you know what i think is more important than term limits.....the staff that surround the elected. ..... i've long thought that this group of unelected have some real power since they are in such close proximity to the congressmen....just think...you have a staff member with an agenda....they are like an unregistered lobbyist.....

107 >>Term limits happen every two to four to six years depending on the politicians term. Does it strike anyone who is a constitutional conservative that this is what the left does? We don't like something let's pass a law. Yea, that's one of those things that sounds great on paper and gets overwhelmed by facts. The original intent of Congressional representatives was to have citizen legislators go to Congress for a limited period and then return to their previous lives. The system has devolved into a situation where we now have professional politicians who make a lifetime of doing nothing but being a politician. Money, gerrymandering and political parties have twisted the original intent to such an extent that politicians in safe districts can eat a baby's head on national TV and it might cost him or her a point at the polls. We also have a majority of the population who is for the most part completely uninterested in politics and now treats elections like a game show. The only time we see a reaction as we are today with the Tea Party is when the country starts going pear shaped and people realize they personally are in some serious shit. Term limits may not be seen by some as a conservative value, although I personally don't buy that argument, but the idea that the system today actually represents some kind of fair assessment of a representative every few years is absurd and unsupported by the facts. If you want smaller, more representative government, term limits is the way.

108 Kinda misnamed aren't they?

It's a very clever ruse. Lefties are vewy wascawwy that way.

109

We have term limits now. They get one term and must run again. If we don't bother to get involved, it's our problem. Democracy is not a spectator sport. No law is going to do it for us. In an off year election you get 25% or less participation, there's your problem. I would rather vote every two years to keep a good rep. like Sensenbrenner in than lose him because other people are too damn lazy to be involved and expect a gimmick law to do their civic duty for them.

Democracy, use it or lose it.

110 I don't think term limits will work. Instead, I want to see a law making elected officials personally responsible for their actions.

When they vote for deficit-making pork, put them on the hook for paying back the money.

When they vote for military action, put them in uniform on the front lines.

When they appoint someone who flouts the law -- as with Osama Obama picking Eric Shabazz Holder -- they should be liable for prosecution as an aider and abettor of criminal activity. Likewise, the must be restrained by all public laws, no exceptions.

Moreover, make a law that "public servants'" pay and perks may not be higher than 95% of equivalent jobs in the private sector. No Air Force jets for Pelosi-grade mid-level execs.

Install time clocks, and dock pay for any elected official who doesn't put in a full 40, 48-50 weeks a year.

Make pensions equal to those in private sector. Twenty years, and you get half-pay, 30 and you get 100%. No post-office handouts, e.g. free office, etc.

Finally, subject all politicians to semi-annual, objective performance reviews. If someone is lazy, all-talk-no-action and wasteful, they go. Automatically.

Those steps would be a start, and would accomplish far more than term limits can.

111 Yeah, I used to be against them, as I really think bad shit can happen when people with "good intentions" but no experience are given that much power (and I still have some concerns about "professional staffers" leading neophytes around by the nose; we don't get to fire those assholes), but I'm more inclined to be in favor of term limits now than I used to be. 

112 Gimmicks like term limits will fix nothing. The problem is the power and size of Governments at all levels and the lazy, inattentive, ignorant Public that let them get that way. Shrink all Governments in the USA to 10% of what they are now. Remember forever that if you look away for just a moment , they will re-grow back to the monsters they are now. We were asleep at our posts. That must not happen again.

113

best option, shrink all govt at all levels and the influence of corrupt govt officials will shrink.

 

 

114 In addition to term limits for politicians, I think they should be prohibited from re-entering the workforce as lobbyists after they leave office. 

115

VOTE THE BUMS OUT......... ^{Except for my guy, because he is one of the good ones.} 

Rinse and repeat.  Term limits won't change much in way things are done in DC.

116 "Auditing the Fed is a stupid thing"

Even when you have a strong hand you don't show it to the rest of the players.

117 I have Inhofe and Dr. Coburn as my Senators. Should they go? Inhofe is giving the environmental committee hell and Dr. Coburn is Dr. No. They have the occasional brain fart, but on the whole, I'm satisfied with them. Dr. Coburn has been all over the state having town hall meetings, and I think with Boxer gone, Inhofe will retake the gavel on the environmental committee and cut a lot of the stupid shit they do. Hope springs eternal.

118 OT:  Me and the Big Guy Big Brother

119 Term limits may not be the fix, but I think the 78% were really saying they want to get rid of life time politicians that are sold out to the DC power scene.

Maybe make it 88% if you include those want those turkeys out, but don't think term limits is the way to accomplish it.

The other 12% are connected to the machine or ignorant.

120 As long as we're shooting pies.

Let the President fire them.
1 Justice per term.
1 Senator per session.
1 Representative per bill.

"We're gonna need more Reps"

That'd really get the every 4 years Democracy is giving the People what they want good and hard a workout.

121 We have term limits in CA and, hello, nothing has changed. Or maybe it takes a generation, I don't know, but term limits do nothing to cure the gerrymandering of safe seats.

122

Install time clocks, and dock pay for any elected official who doesn't put in a full 40, 48-50 weeks a year.

Unlike the private sector, I prefer the congressman who does too little to the one who does too much.  Once the Augean Stables are cleared out, being a good congressman would be a part time job.

123 Why does the federal govt pay congress people? Shouldn't that be the responsibility of the state they represent? Also, all states should chip in to buy or build a dormitory for congresspeople to live in while congress is in session.

Posted by: TC at September 05, 2010 09:01 AM (4XzsU)

The pay/benefits package should be so average that it would really separate "the men from the boys" and give us the people who agree to "serving" rather than "enriching."  As for the dormitory, all those new buildings Bam funded in the deathcare bill could easily fill the bill. 

Even better, congress critters could/should live in their districts, amongst the peasants.  Technology is able to cover everything they need to do from their home bases.  Just think, no travel allowances needed, and if lobbyists were still legal, they'd have to go to all 57 states and not just the one-stop shopping they have in DC.

124

No shit!  I don't understand how these cases aren't thrown out of court.  If every news organization in the US did this there would be little or no internet blog/forum content....wait....uh...oh!

Posted by: Tami at September 05, 2010 09:47 AM (VuLos)

It would appear Beck has beat them at their own game if this happens.  He's hired his own independent reporters (although I think he still uses a lot of syndicates) for his new blog news site, The Blaze.

125

Many in the Class of '94 pledged themselves to term limits. So in 2000 the best ones went home.

Guess who they left behind?

126 This just in from Kos blog,* the source of all things politics:

Decades of right wing economic policies have undermined unions, the middle class, the social safety net, and the sense that we are all in this together, moving into a better future.

OH MY DEVOULTED GAIA!!  The Reichwinger's have undermined our senses!!11^ty!! (sob)

_{*link to Garypedia, not Kos or the other one.}

127 Term limits: if they're good enough for the President, they're good enough for Congress.

128

stupid Daily Kooks don't even realise that people are fed up with Unions.  There was a time in America when unions were absolutley necessary, but now they have become nothing but thugs.

Perhaps not the union members, but certainly the union leadership.

129 Posted by: johnc_recent_EX-dem at September 05, 2010 11:15 AM

Unions I understand...  maybe we can get a guest commenter from there to explain this "social safety net" that we are being cut out of.  A trap?

130 I scanned the other comments, but didn't see this particular sentiment expressed: it's great that 78% of Americans favor term limits. It's sad, however, that only about 50% of Americans ever bother to turn out to vote, exercising the term limiter that's available to them under the existing Constitution.

131 Honestly, I think there should be something tied to voting...
Either a penalty if you don't or a reward if you do (I need to think about this).
AND
a test required before you can vote.

Granted, neither of the above are practical or super wise but I'm feeling cranky today.

132 Oh dear God, Fox just had a debate between a hispanic valley girl from some organization named "lula" and a white guy from some organization, didn't catch the name, bent on defending the AZ law cause it is important for the constitution.   They ended up with her saying he didn't know what amnesty was and him finally calling her what she was/is "an idiot".  It was priceless television, often I wonder why, they mismatch debaters to such an extent that one clearly grasps the situation and has a brain and the other spent all morning in hair and makeup and has no clue but the talking points.

133 Union members don't get a pass.  They are just as bad as their leaders.  They literally wait for the union to tell them who to vote for and then they dutifully vote for said person, persons, without blinking an eye.

134 I'm not sure that we ever did really "need" the unions. What we needed was local government that was honest and could not be "bought" by the local buisnesses.

And in that I am referring to primarily the coal companies which ran roughshod over everyone.

The places where the unions really got started in the train system and auto industry really didn't need a union because they were already paid more than most workers earned.

135 Honestly, I think there should be something tied to voting...
Either a penalty if you don't or a reward if you do (I need to think about this).
AND
a test required before you can vote.

I think they should limit the vote to those who actually pay taxes and/or own property.

Also, if you work for the government, you don't get to vote in that government's elections. You should not have the opportunity to vote yourself rich out of the public treasury.

136 Oh dear God, nepotism is alive and well on Fox.  Peter Doocy, a much better looking, but younger version, (see hair cut) of his dad is on Fox now talking about internet stuff.  Too funny, too funny

137 Posted by: curious at September 05, 2010 11:41 AM

Probably LULAC

138

"What we needed was local government that was honest and could not be "bought" by the local buisnesses. "

Yes.  That is true.  But unfortunately its not local govt it is the federal govt that uses whichever party officials are in power to gain an advantage over their competitors.

Case in point: In one of the amendents in the Finance "Reform" bill , there was a paragraph put in by some congressperson [on behalf of UPS] that FedEx would have to unionize or face penalty. So, now instead of it being UPS vs FedEx.  UPS has used its lobbyist to game the rules to give advantage to itself over its competitor, FedEx.

How the hell is this fair?  Frankly, I don't care how sucessful someone becomes, with my small biz I will never become a millionaire let alone a billionair, if they earned that money fairly, good on them, and its theirs, I don't want that forture redistributed to me.

BUT... if that company games the system to give itself a permanant market advantage thru essentially buying politicians, so my biz now no longer has an even playing field, that I have a major problem with.

People in America don't have a problem with sucess, they have a problem with ungarnered unfair success.

With unions, I don't have a problem with unions, what I have a problem with is union bosses and mindless union workers. If my company unionized, I would immediately have to let some people go and have even a stricter hiring freeze.

The point of unions decades ago was for the betterment of employees, now the union's purpose seems to be advancement of the Union bosses and the Union organization.

139 127 I have Inhofe and Dr. Coburn as my Senators. Should they go?

Even in the private sector, I think it's good for people to move on, otherwise organizations stagnate.  No one is irreplaceable.  Good politicians should pass the torch and contribute in other sectors, or at least move from one branch of government to another. 

As someone said above, if term limits are good enough for the POTUS, they're good enough for Congress. 

140

141 Posted by: Luke Russert at September 05, 2010 12:03 PM (OWjjx)

hahhahahhaha

Ploofie was just on Fox...it's a sad state of affairs when he is arguing against republicans and quoting lindsey graham...isn't graham supposed to be a republican?

142 Chicago politics -- Pelosi and crew going after Joe Wilson for $12.00 set of mugs he bought.  Throw them all out.  Every GI gets the hot lamp treatment every time they go TDY it seems, looking for a buck of ill-gotten gains.  The only problem with term limits for Congress is that it merely becomes a steeper learning curve to see how quickly they can work the deals.

143

just read somewhere that Lindsay Grahman is now reaching out to the SC Tea Party.  I thought Grahman said in an interview not to long along the Tea Party movement was useless and "would die out"

hmmmmm, wonder why the change of heart?

144 Back in the day, politics to me envisioned a bunch of Mark Russel-types all decked out in their gaudy R-W-B clown suits with a cheap straw hat, swinging on the overhead lamps and high-fiving each other for effect.  For a deluded while, I envisioned them actually governing the country.  I'm working my way back to the clowns.

145 158 just read somewhere that Lindsay Grahman is now reaching out to the SC Tea Party.

Well, I hope to god they laugh spit in his face. 

146 Random hobos off the street would be much better than what we have now.  The majority of the country can't vote Nancy Pelosi out of office so, yes, we need term limits. 

Term limits create lame duck Congresscritters who will have no reason to worry about the wrath of the voters...

I believe that congressmen would be much less likely to vote the party line if they were term limited out.  The party leadership wouldn't be able to twist their arm as much, threaten to withhold DNC reelection funds, and promise future committee appointments.  If you get rid of that elite ruling class mentality that we have now in Washington maybe congressmen will start to think more about the good of their country than their own personal gain in power politics. 

147 just read somewhere that Lindsay Grahman is now reaching out to the SC Tea Party.

I hope they grab his arm, twist it behind his back, throw him to the ground and put a knee in his junk.

_{(Too harsh for a Sunday?)}

148 Al Sharpton: State Senate Seat is Black ‘Heir’ Property

149 >>But, understand, that comes at a cost as well. For every endangered Nancy Pelosi, you also get an equally endangered Mike Pence. I think this misses the bigger point. What I want is a smaller, less activist government. I'm not a fan of politicians, this isn't a sporting event. I don't want people to come in and advocate for the next big thing. Career politicians on both sides of the aisle start to do things because after 30 years in office they don't want to just do the things that were the original purposes of their jobs. They want to do something "big and important" and leave their legacy. And then we get things like SS, Medicare, Medicaid, Gov't Healthcare and on and on and on. Ultimately, stuff that takes power away from the people and deposits it, and our money, in DC. You would also see overtly stupid and political actions like illegal immigration be dealt with in a more sane fashion. Dems fight to keep the borders wide open because they think it helps them on a national political basis not because it makes any sense to the country. Powerful donks like Pelosi can force juniors to toe the line if they expect any help in getting re-elected. And that's where most of the power of re-election is centered, in DC and not in the districts. Let people go to DC and get back to the basics instead of funding snail darter conservation programs and the sex lives of bed bugs and have to defend there actions to the people they are supposed to represent. When you take away the lure of lifetime appointment and the need to satisfy the national party you get better representatives.

150 Encouraging numbers. Too bad it will take an Article V action to actually make it happen.

151 I'm all for fair districting.  If you can find a more gerrymandered district than MD-2 I'd be amazed.  It's not contiguous and it has parts of 3 counties and Baltimore city.  http://tinyurl.com/22n2ycc

152 Rather than term limits, I would like to see a mandatory retirement age of 50 or maybe 55 years, so these bastards have to LIVE WITH THE LAWS THEY MAKE.

Right now you have fuckers in their 80s stealing from two younger generations and they could give a rats ass since they'll be dead and gone before the "unintended consequences" wreak havoc on society.

Nope, I want these assholes around when the SHTF, so we can make THEIR LIVES MISERABLE for their selfish moments while supposedly representing the will of the people.

153

DO NOT SEND ANY MONEY TO THE *SPIT* JERRY LEWIS TELETHON!  HE'S A NAZI LOVING REICH WINGER WHO SENDS ALL YOUR DONATIONS TO THE *SPIT* TEA PARTIES AND THE ILLUMINATI!

HE'S JUST ONE MORE GOEBBLES ATTEMPTING WORLD DOMINATION FOR THE ROTHSCHILDS AND THE ZIONISTS!

154

Late entry, but I'm against term limits too. We have 'em here in California, and they don't work for shit.

Never mind that term limits mean loss of expertise (I know, most politicos don't know their ass from a hole in the ground, but a few do).

The problem is that when politicians (*cough*Reds*cough*) know that they're going to be gone, and when, they're lame ducks in their last term from the get-go. So they spend that term feathering their own nest with bullshit legislation that favors the industry/ union/ pressure group/ region from which they're hoping to get a post-legislative job. There are precisely zero checks on what they do in that session, because they're gone at the end and they know it.

Much better to have them spend the term worrying about re-election, keeping them at least theoretically accountable, and then POW! finding out on Election Night that they're history.

Vote assholes out, don't term limit them out.

155 They might try a poll which asks if by law Congress can't exempt themselves from taxes and policies they impose on the rest of the country (e.g. ObamaCare).

I think this would easily top 78%.

156

13 Let's be sporting. If/When they file for re-election roll a 6 sided die. If a 2-6 comes, no problem. If they roll a one, execute 'em on the spot.

Good idea, although maybe it should be the other way 'round.

Alternatively, I'm thinking steel cage matches on PPV. Revenue, baby! Two men enter, one man leaves!

157 Now all we need to do is get the s.o.b.s to pass a constitutional amendment bill, the get the states to pass it.  Piece o' cake.

158 Do a poll on the number of lawyers in government.

See what numbers you get then.

159 48% are lawyers.

And do you really think, that citizens are in control of government....MUHAHAHA!

Get a clue bitchez!

160 Every voter in America except for the members of Congress could want term limits and they would never pass because Congress itself doesn't want them.  So we can give up on that idea right now.

161 Nemo - I find your lack of faith disturbing.

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163 Here’s a practical Tea Party type strategy to create a “Citizen Congress” A Congress of career politicians will never represent “We the People”, because their highest priority is getting reelected with the help of Big Money. But “We the People” have more votes than “Big Money” has, and thus can end Congress as a career for professional politicians by never reelecting incumbents. We can impose single terms every two years, by never reelecting Congress. Always vote, but only for challengers. Never reelect incumbents. Keep this up until Congress is mostly “one-termers”, a citizen Congress. Then keep it up every election, to make a citizen Congress a permanent reality. Every American’s only intelligent choice is to never reelect anyone in Congress! The only infallible, unstoppable, guaranteed way to get a truly new Congress, and a cleaned up new politics is NEVER REELECT ANY INCUMBENT! AND DO IT EVERY ELECTION Nelson Lee Walker of tenurecorrupts.com

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