July 09, 2010

Friday Financial Briefing
— Monty

Equities defied gravity for yet another day. The S&P 500 gained almost 10 points to close at 1,070.25, while the Dow gained 120 points to close at 10,138.99. Volumes were comparatively low, however. I am mystified as to what is driving the euphoria -- nothing substantial has changed in the world since the equities bloodbaths of last week, so what the hell is going on? The Federal Reserve experts may be right after all: I am just too stupid to understand what is happening here.

So given the mini-rally over the last few days, the inevitable CNBC story asks: Bull market or last gasp before death?. All the people who got the economic signals wrong last time assure you that this time the stock markets are going to the moon. To the moon!

Via Insty, a ray of light for those who think I'm too much of a downer. Matt Ridley assures us that the world will prove me and other cynics wrong. (WARNING: Huff-n-Puff link, but Ridley is always worth reading, so go ye and read thereof.) For what it's worth, I think Ridley is right over the long-term. We are already living in an amazing age, but the technology coming in the next fifty years will change our lives in ways we can barely imagine. It's just that getting over the hump from here to there is likely to be quite painful.

Why all the gloom and doom? In every day and in every way, we're getting better and better! We're good enough, we're smart enough, and doggone it, people like us!

"Markets are very noisy small children", says Willem Buiter. He makes a good point, actually -- equities markets are bipolar, reacting with giddy glee and suicidal despair at every turn in the market. In this age of HFT (high-frequency trading), algos, and arcane derivatives trading, that's even more true.

Further reasons why the huge Chinese AgBank IPO wasn't quite the success-story it's been painted to be. Hint: bad loans. Chinese banks operate under an authoritarian political fiat, not an economic one. There are probably huge numbers of nonperforming loans that are being kept off-book for fear of causing a panic, but they can't be kept hidden forever.

The Chinese need your huge Yankee brain for some IT work in Shanghai. Pretty soon we're going to be the hated job-usurpers who swoop in on a foreign country and put all the locals out of work. Mwah-hah-hah-hah!

Huff-n-Puff posts an article about the limits of the "global economy". (Two articles on the same day! Are they on a roll or what?) The article explains why the concept of the "global economy" is pretty dodgy, actually. International borders and laws still matter, and the differences between them will continue to act as barriers to trade. It's a statement of the obvious, really, but I'm still surprised when Tom Friedman acolytes spout that "the world is flat" nonsense.

Obama's economic policy has had a somewhat more subdued impact than he'd hoped it would.

There is a on-going flight from risk in the investing public, and that flight is taking the form of a rush to bonds and away from stocks. This can be seen in any number of ways: the fact that US Treasuries are still selling well in spite of paying a zero (or near-zero) coupon; the fact that sovereigns are going to great lengths to keep their respective bond-markets healthy; and the fact that the major stock indices are trading on remarkably low volume. The investing public has lost its aggregate appetite for risk, and I think a large part of this is due to a heinous combination of regulatory fuckery, braindead financial legislation (TARP, the auto bailouts, cash for clunkers, the list goes on), and a prevalence of short-term thinking and profit-taking on Wall Street. The big New York financial houses no longer exist to serve their clients; they exist to enrich their employees. The market is broken, and even an idiot like me can see that. I'm on the verge of getting out myself until things change -- this is just madness.

Amity Shlaes says that all the "second Great Depression" talk is off-base, and tends to obscure the focus on the stuff that is the problem. I'm not sure I agree with her thesis except to the point that the next Depression (if we have one) will certainly have different causes than the first one. That is necessarily true because the financial world of today is vastly different than it was then. However, I think she and other economists are far too sanguine about the American economy's resilience in the face of repeated shocks. The grotesque burden of huge debt and entitlement spending is putting stresses on the American economy that increase with time, and the second and third-order effects of those pressures are not well-understood. (Remember, all the bright boys in economics circles were telling us in 2006 and 2007 that there was no housing bubble, and even if there was, it would have little effect on the greater economy.)

Art Laffer again feels compelled to explain something that should be common sense but sadly is not: unemployment benefits aren't stimulus. Pull quote:

On the face of it, the idea that higher unemployment benefits won't lead to more unemployment doesn't make much sense. Imagine what the unemployment rate would look like if unemployment benefits were universally $150,000 per year. My guess is we'd have a heck of a lot more unemployment.
The problem is that to people like Nancy Pelosi and President Obama, the actual economics of the issue are completely beside the point. They are ideologues of the purest kind -- they'd rather see the country burn than admit they're wrong. They are driven by political beliefs so deeply-held that they amount to a religious faith, and no evidence to the contrary will disabuse them. That's why convincing them is a useless exercise; removing them from power is the only route to economic recovery. Laffer offers the real tonic:
My suggestion would have been to take all $3.6 trillion and declare a federal tax holiday for 18 months. No income tax, no corporate profits tax, no capital gains tax, no estate tax, no payroll tax (FICA) either employee or employer, no Medicare or Medicaid taxes, no federal excise taxes, no tariffs, no federal taxes at all, which would have reduced federal revenues by $2.4 trillion annually. Can you imagine where employment would be today? How does a 2.5% unemployment rate sound?
Hallelujah, brother! Preach it! (Also, be sure to read the comments on the article. Many of them are pure comedy gold.)

How in the hell can you fail a test that was constructed specifically to make it almost impossible to fail? (NOTE: This is a rumor at this point, so it might just be twenty pounds of bullshit in a ten pound bag. We'll see.)

NRO brings us this useful primer on how Democrats and debt go together like peas and carrots. Modern Democrats are just carrying on a tradition begun by their Progressive ancestors way back in the 1890's. (Long article, but well worth your time.)

Some interesting background on those huge gold-swaps between the banks and the BIS.

June numbers from retailers ended up like a wet fart: not catastrophic, but still embarassing and needing a quick clean-up. Mish has some additional thoughts.

Also from Mish, reasons why that scarifying BDI number may not be an artifact, but an actual downward trend in international trade.

"Gentlemen, California has overtaken us in the ranks of the Terminally Boned. This is unacceptable! Illinois has a proud tradition of fraud, thievery, cheating, lying, backstabbing, cronyism, perfidy, corruption, dirty-dealing, and governmental incompetence to uphold! I will not allow California to eclipse our great state! I am therefore instructing all state, county, and municipal employees to leave no stone unturned to make our state the shining beacon of failure and hopelessness that it has always been in the past!"

You can add "hospitals" to the list of chumps who got taken by slick-talking Wall Streeters and invested in instruments neither they nor the brokers really understood. But as every Vegas gambler finds out after their first big catastrophe at the tables: the house does not issue refunds. Better luck next time, pal. In Vegas, they call it the "stupidity tax". (The old advice is still the best advice, by the way: if it sounds too good to be true, it probably is.)

Well, my mom always said that if life hands you lemons, make lemonade.

More people are giving their credit cards a breather as unemployment (and fear thereof) makes consumers more leery of debt.

The epicenter of the boned: Oakland girds for the riots that are almost certain to erupt if and when ex-transit cop Johannes Mehserle is not found guilty of first-degree murder of Oscar Grant. (Details on the case can be found easily, so I won't recap them here.) This is financial news as well as cultural, because it will cause a huge hit to the Oakland businesses and residences that will surely be damaged or destroyed in a riot. California will also incur security expenses before, during, and after the event; not to mention cleanup costs and prosecuting the rioters themselves (or at least as many as they can catch and feel able to prosecute). The costs of a significant riot could easily run to the hundreds of millions, or even billions, of dollars. Worse yet, the "riot meme" could spread to other cities. (Later: Ace has the scoop. Involuntary manslaughter. Here we go....)

Alas, poor Harrisburg: we hardly knew ye. May your name live forever in the annals of stupid municipalities who spend too much money on badly-built shit they don't need. (This story would have been so much more perfect if the failed project in question had been a light-rail system, because then I could have whipped out the Simpsons monorail bit.)

I'm a fan of corporate disaster stories, and Microsoft's KIN debacle is a really juicy one. As the article points out, the KIN fiasco was mainly due to the failure of Microsoft to integrate the Danger unit into the corporate body, and a failure of upper management and marketing to understand the audience they were trying to reach with the device. This is a pattern that has been repeated many, many times in the industry. (As a VAX aficionado, I remember when DEC was acquired by Compaq which was acquired by HP, which left both DEC and Compaq gear in the Land of Forgotten Toys.)

Today's briefing brought to you by Robert Mitchum, who is just that cool, Daddy-O.

Posted by: Monty at 03:13 AM | Comments (84)
Post contains 1788 words, total size 14 kb.

1 Is anybody up yet?

Posted by: flodigarry at July 09, 2010 03:27 AM (eDHPB)

2 All good right up until the encounter with the "Invisible Wall". That event must have been studied in Accounting 411, which explains why only Greedspin knows about it.

Posted by: TheSev at July 09, 2010 03:27 AM (iHeMr)

3 Thanks for bringing the good cheer Monty - I always look forward to my daily dose.

Posted by: flodigarry at July 09, 2010 03:28 AM (eDHPB)

4 This is the post I read right after the obits.

Posted by: kelley in virginia at July 09, 2010 03:31 AM (jRcMS)

5

well, that comment sure shut everybody up

 

Posted by: kelley in virginia at July 09, 2010 03:37 AM (jRcMS)

6 For some reason the Fear Index is down. I always think it's the direct inverse of the "Obama Impeachment Probability Index"

Posted by: alppuccino at July 09, 2010 03:43 AM (/pz5C)

7 My suggestion would have been to take all $3.6 trillion and declare a federal tax holiday for 18 months.

Shit, I was saying that during the Stimmilis debacle.  Welcome aboard, Laffer.

Posted by: nickless at July 09, 2010 03:45 AM (MMC8r)

8

Thomas  Jefferson said in 1802:
'I believe that 
banking institutions are more dangerous to 
our liberties
 than standing armies.
 
If the American people ever allow 
private banks to control the issue of their 
currency, first by inflation,
 then by 
deflation, the banks and corporations that will 
grow up around the banks will deprive the people 
of all property -
 until their children 
wake-up homeless on the continent their fathers 
conquered.'

Posted by: dananjcon at July 09, 2010 04:01 AM (pr+up)

9

morn' all.

 

Posted by: dananjcon at July 09, 2010 04:02 AM (pr+up)

10 Mmmmm....Robert Mitchum. The hottest, sexiest, most MALE guy ever to walk this earth since....Chris Christie.

Nice way to start the morning, thanks.

Posted by: RightWingRedneck at July 09, 2010 04:10 AM (mMX8j)

11 Mmmmm....Robert Mitchum. The hottest, sexiest, most MALE guy ever to walk this earth since er, until...Chris Christie.

Nice way to start the morning, thanks. (I must need more coffee)

Posted by: RightWingRedneck at July 09, 2010 04:12 AM (mMX8j)

12 Good Morning Monty;

Normally I love Amety Shlaes. She has long been my bible with respect to the causes of the depression. But on this score she is out to lunch.

To focus on these stock patterns is to be like weather forecasters who talk about the heat index or wind chill. They are gilding the statistical lily. The ungilded reality: today the Dow is down about 30 percent from its 2007 high, nowhere near its decline of 89 percent between September 1929 and July 1932. Today, joblessness in the U.S. is a bit less than 10 percent; in 1932 it was 25 percent.

While these differences set todayÂ’s slump apart from the Great Depression, there are other issues that may be holding back a recovery.

It appears that her problem here is that she actually believes the numbers put forth by this lying administration.  Could it be that she is a closet Obaminite?

Amity Babe; the stock market is not the economy and unemployment is 20% in real terms.

 

Posted by: Vic at July 09, 2010 04:14 AM (/jbAw)

13 There is a on-going flight from risk in the investing public, and that flight is taking the form of a rush to bonds and away from stocks.

I keep telling you folks that not all stocks are created equally. Bonds are shit right now, especially some municipal bonds which have become very risky without the associated rise in interest.

Meanwhile some very safe stocks remain out there being ignored. I am talking about utilities. Most are safe as gold (Monty) and they have the added benefit of paying a high dividend. In order for them to actually tank the republic has to collapse, in which case gold will not be worth a shit either. The currency then will be lead and food.

I am not a broker but I recommend Duke Power and Progress Energy because they are well run and I am familiar with both companies. (DUK = 16.72 div 5.86%; PGN = 40.41 div = 6.14%)




Posted by: Vic at July 09, 2010 04:28 AM (/jbAw)

14

The Dow is surging back up.

The Fed flooding the market with cash ?

Posted by: Blazer at July 09, 2010 04:29 AM (t72+4)

15 Two possible reasons for rally.  Flight capital from Europe and ray of hope the GOP will retake the House.

A third?  Does the world inflation ring a bell?  Clearly the dollar is going to be worth less, making US stocks cheaper for the Japs and Chinese.

Posted by: Kemp at July 09, 2010 04:30 AM (2+9Yx)

16 Vic:  Miss Shales is thinking we are in 1932.   I am thinking we are at 1930 levels and still have a way to go.

Also think she is, like many people,  not realizing how everything is being shaded and manipulated,  numbers-wise.  It doesn't mean she is an Obamintie;  it means she has yet to face the truth about how these people operate.  Lots of people keep saying he's stupid and bungling,  because they don't want to face the faact that we have a malevolent president.

Posted by: Miss Marple (redneck teabagger) at July 09, 2010 04:30 AM (bixjr)

17 I don't think technology is the reason behind this anomaly in the markets -- I suspect that those with enough capital to gamble took a bath or two over the past two years and no longer want to risk "short" crap shoots.  When fewer people gain from a down market (and there have always been some), the more incentive there is to maintain a fictitious "up".  Some of these capital centers may be feeling the heat, in other words, and another major drop in the markets could finish some of them.Which, I think, shows that the markets are divorcing from the realities of the economy, at least to a larger degree than before. This works so long as everyone plays along with this fairy tale but if the economy continues to drag, or declines even more, then this bubble will burst like all the others.

Interesting, isn't it, that the real estate markets are not pulling much in the way of investment right now? 

Sure seems to indicate to me that those large investment pools are running scared right now.  Think about it.  Where do they go if the market craps out?

Any more "rescue" packages and you couldn't give away dollars in Haiti.

Posted by: Full Moon at July 09, 2010 04:31 AM (6UfSo)

18 Are utilities in danger of being fucked over by the eco-fascists, or are they accomplices?  I can't tell anymore.

Posted by: HeatherRadish at July 09, 2010 04:36 AM (M9BNu)

19
Are utilities in danger of being fucked over by the eco-fascists, or are they accomplices?  I can't tell anymore.

Posted by: HeatherRadish at July 09, 2010 08:36 AM (M9BNu)





I think you answered your own question there. They are having a collective fap over the oil spill too. If they truly cared about shit they would be ramming oil rigs in the Gulf and Nork and Chinese whale ships instead of the passive Japanese to make a sport of it.

Posted by: Blazer at July 09, 2010 04:38 AM (t72+4)

20

Brockton, Ogdenville, North Havebrook and Harrisburg?

Posted by: Ben at July 09, 2010 04:39 AM (wuv1c)

21 HeatherRadish:

I think utilities think they will be able to pass the onerous Cap and Trade costs on to consumers.   But that would not be destructive enough for Obama,  so I imagine they would find themselves bound by onerous regulations,  government busy-bodie inspectors,  caps on earnings,  etc.  Wouldn't be surprised if Obama were to try some sort of takeover,  a la GM.

NO business is safe from this guy,  except perhaps the universities which operate as a training ground for brownshirts.

Posted by: Miss Marple (redneck teabagger) at July 09, 2010 04:39 AM (bixjr)

22 Yes true comedy gold from that Laffer column:

The Democratic retort is that the economy today is so different from the past that we have to suspend our traditional understanding of economics.

Now where have we heard that before (hint Clinton admin just before the huge collapse)

One bone to pick though Art:

There isn't a "tooth fairy," or as my former colleague Milton Friedman repeated time and again, "there ain't no such thing as a free lunch." The government doesn't create resources. It redistributes them

That quote actually comes from Robert Heinlein and "The Moon Is A Harsh Mistress"(1956 ).  TANSTAAFL; There ain't no such thing as a free lunch. 

Posted by: Vic at July 09, 2010 04:39 AM (/jbAw)

23 One additional caveat I would give to people re the stock markets -- they are mostly a diversion from the debt side of a ledger. Seriously. Equities are a flyspeck compared to the bond and commercial paper markets. So stock markets now are more an indication of mood than anything else. So perspective is always necessary when talking about stock rallies and crashes. In terms of absolute numbers the figures are large, but in terms of ratios they're nothing compared to debts and fixed-income stuff. The big problem, as always, is debt. The Dow could go to 20,000 and it wouldn't really improve our economic situation by much.

Posted by: Monty at July 09, 2010 04:40 AM (4Pleu)

24 I don't understand the markets right now - but I do know it is no place for amateurs. Moved all my money to long stocks with dividends, or bonds. Not playing in that sandbox. The poker wisdom - when your at the table and you don't know who the pigeon is, it's you - applies.

Posted by: Jean at July 09, 2010 04:40 AM (XSlA+)

25 "I am mystified as to what is driving the euphoria -- nothing substantial has changed in the world since the equities bloodbaths of last week, so what the hell is going on? The Federal Reserve experts may be right after all: I am just too stupid to understand what is happening here."

Gosh, I don't think that is the case at all.

This market literally makes no sense. There are no jobs, no growth sectors, no certainty about the future. The only thing certain is that taxes will rise and employing people will be more difficult and more expensive.

Let me adjust my tin foil hat for the next paragraph...

With stories about "fat finger" & events like WAPO stock doubling in a few minutes it makes it difficult not to believe that the market is being manipulated somehow. 


Posted by: oh, Hi Mark at July 09, 2010 04:41 AM (rEqqn)

26 Also think she is, like many people,  not realizing how everything is being shaded and manipulated,  numbers-wise.  It doesn't mean she is an Obamintie;  it means she has yet to face the truth about how these people operate.

Yes could be true; perhaps I was too harsh on Amity.

Posted by: Vic at July 09, 2010 04:42 AM (/jbAw)

27 Sure seems to indicate to me that those large investment pools are running scared right now. Rich people don't invest in stocks. When you reach a certain income level, it's about wealth preservation, not wealth growth per se. Rich people put their money in bonds and more exotic instruments. Stocks tend to be less than half of their portfolios. In fact, that ratio of stocks to bonds has probably dropped even more since 2007. Lots of wealthy retirees have been burned not just on stocks, but also on ETFs and REITs as well. What's left? Uncle Sugar's bonds, that's what. Or commodities.

Posted by: Monty at July 09, 2010 04:43 AM (4Pleu)

28

Mitchum was one of the best interviews for Carson.  Two of his visits stand out:  Talking about filming Wild Bunch in Mexico and the time he showed up drunk and they gave him a glass of water to sober up.  After extolling the sources and virtues of water for about five minutes he poured it out and pronounced it unfit to drink.  He was a funny, cool guy that guys liked.  Hell of an actor.

Posted by: Mr. Dave at July 09, 2010 04:43 AM (YHCGn)

29
This market literally makes no sense. There are no jobs, no growth sectors, no certainty about the future. The only thing certain is that taxes will rise and employing people will be more difficult and more expensive.






The Dow surges back up. Bambi goes on prosperity tour. Coincidence? I think not.

Posted by: Blazer at July 09, 2010 04:44 AM (t72+4)

30

I am not a big-time, or even a moderate-time, investor in the stock market.  I don't have a grasp on many of the more exotic instruments; stocks and bonds are about the extent of my concrete knowledge of investment instruments.

I believe the stock market, inasmuch as it is not being manipulated by the Fed, is broadly following the fortunes of the GOP.  For althought the GOP is not really a pro-business party, they are a pro-stability party.  And the one thing investors need, before anything esle, is an ability to plan long-term.

Posted by: Truman at July 09, 2010 04:47 AM (FjC5u)

31 Are utilities in danger of being fucked over by the eco-fascists, or are they accomplices?

Some are, some are not. GE got in bed with the Obamanites but not all big companies did. so if one utility gets in bed with him you can not paint all with the same brush.

I think you answered your own question there. They are having a collective fap over the oil spill too. If they truly cared about shit they would be ramming oil rigs in the Gulf and Nork and Chinese whale ships instead of the passive Japanese to make a sport of it.

The only utility who makes wide spread use of oil is Hawaii. Oil really has no impact on utilities anymore. Now coal is a different story. Currently nationwide coal represents 50% of power generation, fossil overall represents 70%. (hint both Duke and PGN are heavy into nukes)

Posted by: Vic at July 09, 2010 04:48 AM (/jbAw)

32


Mitchum was one of the best interviews for Carson.  Two of his visits stand out:  Talking about filming Wild Bunch in Mexico and the time he showed up drunk and they gave him a glass of water to sober up.  After extolling the sources and virtues of water for about five minutes he poured it out and pronounced it unfit to drink.  He was a funny, cool guy that guys liked.  Hell of an actor.

Posted by: Mr. Dave at July 09, 2010 08:43 AM (YHCGn)





I remember those interviews. He also said that at the end when they were filming the sunset scene with all of the dead bodies someone farted and they had to do a retake because all of the dead bodies on the ground started flopping like fish from laughing.

Posted by: Blazer at July 09, 2010 04:48 AM (t72+4)

33

Yes true comedy gold from that Laffer column:

The Democratic retort is that the economy today is so different from the past that we have to suspend our traditional understanding of economics.

Now where have we heard that before (hint Clinton admin just before the huge collapse)

 

or George Bush's , "I've abandoned free market principles to save the free market system"

Posted by: Ben at July 09, 2010 04:48 AM (wuv1c)

34 Also think she is, like many people, not realizing how everything is being shaded and manipulated, numbers-wise. HFT and algos. They are warping the market in ways that even experts like Warren Buffett don't understand. Value-investing and stock-picking is worthless because those strategies don't mean anything in a millisecond-market. It's not about the core value and growth potential of a firm in five or ten or thirty years; it's about subsecond arbitrage opportunities between stocks and funds. It's about one hedge fund's computers doing battle with another hedge fund, and then swapping shares until the next day when the game happens all over again. It's a casino, in other words, where luck and high risk mean more than fundamentals. It's mostly a highly risk-averse market right now, but there are always some who crave yield in spite of the risk. I forget who said it, I think it was on ZH, but the guys said that alpha is pretty much dead; beta is the only play right now. I think that's pretty much correct.

Posted by: Monty at July 09, 2010 04:49 AM (4Pleu)

35 Darn it all, it looks like the US is going to trade away Anna Chapman for some captured American spy or another with the Russians. Well, I for one protest! A gal thathawt is a natural wonder and should be declared a national park. Obama should only agree to a spy swap as long as we get to keep Anna, to Keep America Beautiful. And before anyone starts up with her being a Ruskie spy and all, answer me this: what harm did she do to America in all the years she's graced our streets with her curvaceous presence that even amounts to a fraction of the damage that, say, Obama's Gulf/Golf Oil Fiasco gushes unto our shores every single day? And don't even get me started on Obama's Deficit Blowout.

Posted by: CoolCzech at July 09, 2010 04:51 AM (tJjm/)

36 My suggestion to those without enough money? What are you doing between midnight and seven am. Get another job.

Posted by: dr kill at July 09, 2010 04:51 AM (w9bVp)

37

36 My suggestion to those without enough money?

What are you doing between midnight and seven am. Get another job.

And about all these crimmigrants:   if the Irish want work, they can dig me another sub-way!

Posted by: Truman North at July 09, 2010 04:52 AM (FjC5u)

38

Darn it all, it looks like the US is going to trade away Anna Chapman for some captured American spy or another with the Russians.

It's genius really, we trade them 11 russians spys for 4 russian prisoners.

 

so no americans get freed from this transaction. Essentially we get some of their prison inmates in return for their spies.

what a deal. I hope they at least throw in a sack of potatoes and some bortscht

Posted by: Ben at July 09, 2010 04:53 AM (wuv1c)

39

Also when I heard the name Anna Chapman and the word swap in the same sentence, spy swap wasn't the first thing that came to mind.

 

Really the saddest part of this who affair is that one of the other spies is actually hotter than Chapman. She's a blonde russian vixen, but she isn't getting any atttention because she didn't pose nude in photos or have a facebook page.

Posted by: Ben at July 09, 2010 04:54 AM (wuv1c)

40 Darn it all, it looks like the US is going to trade away Anna Chapman for some captured American spy or another with the Russians.

Well, I for one protest! A gal thathawt is a natural wonder and should be declared a national park.




I just pray when she returns to Mother Russia she decides to open up an e-business as a way to continue her capitalist Yankee lifestyle, ifykwim, aitykewim

Posted by: Blazer at July 09, 2010 04:57 AM (t72+4)

41 Ben - do they have any Americans in prison for spying?

Posted by: Jean at July 09, 2010 04:59 AM (fQbcU)

42

oh speaking of economy boning, did anyone see Charlie Crist's boning push to put a drilling ban in the florida constitution. This man is looking more and more like Arlen Specter after he switched. He is going full leftist retard.

 

I will be crushed if Rubio loses to this carrot

Posted by: Ben at July 09, 2010 04:59 AM (wuv1c)

43

Ben - do they have any Americans in prison for spying?

I am not 100% sure, but i would doubt it. America is(was) a rich country, so we didn't really have to send spies, we could just buy russians who would sell us information. So any "spies" the russians have of ours are probably russians who sold information to America.

 

From what I have read, all of the 4 spies we are getting are Russians who worked for England.

 

So we really are getting nothing from this deal.

Posted by: Ben at July 09, 2010 05:01 AM (wuv1c)

44 "Will the three blind mute retarded monkeys who actually still have any faith left in our ridonculously manipulated market please follow all the other lemmings over the cliff, not forget to pay Goldman Sachs the $200 suicide fee, and shut the light on their way out."

Zero Hedge is always worth reading for the funny.

Posted by: curious at July 09, 2010 05:03 AM (p302b)

45 Ben,  I have a friend in Florida that calls Charlie "Orange Julius."

heh.

Posted by: Miss Marple (redneck teabagger) at July 09, 2010 05:03 AM (bixjr)

46

Well, it looks like the damage in Oakland wasn't too bad...and mostly led by out of town anarchists.

Still need to check in later with my family there.

Posted by: Mama AJ at July 09, 2010 05:04 AM (XdlcF)

47 So we really are getting nothing from this deal. Big poker chits of goodwill from the English secret services isn't nothing; nor is getting those four guys out of hell. I doubt we will get to see all of the details anyways.

Posted by: Jean at July 09, 2010 05:05 AM (yGYDb)

48

Charlie Crist in.......




A Cockwork Orange

Posted by: Blazer at July 09, 2010 05:05 AM (t72+4)

49 Ben...And another thing:  how do we know that these guys are not plants?

Putin is WAY smarter and more devious than Obama.   Wouldln't surprise me if he has been working for years on turning these guys,  so that when they come back they will feed false info to the US.

Of course,  what do I know?  I am just a Midwestern grandma with a sad cynical streak.

Posted by: Miss Marple (redneck teabagger) at July 09, 2010 05:06 AM (bixjr)

50 Thank you for the Robert Mitchum. I have a framed pic of him lighting a cigarette on my wall, right inbetween Ginger Rogers and Debbie Harry. 

Posted by: Joanie (Oven Gloves) at July 09, 2010 05:09 AM (HaYO4)

51

Ben...And another thing:  how do we know that these guys are not plants?

we don't, but we'll give them government positions in our intellegence industry just to be safe.

Posted by: Ben at July 09, 2010 05:13 AM (wuv1c)

52


Vote for me, please vote for me


I got no spine, I've got my orange crush

Posted by: Charlie Crist at July 09, 2010 05:14 AM (t72+4)

53
THIS won't make the nightly news.  Doesn't fit the pro-corruptocrat narrative.

Posted by: Lemon Kitten at July 09, 2010 05:15 AM (0fzsA)

54 Heading out to run errands.   I will check in later this morning.

Posted by: Miss Marple (redneck teabagger) at July 09, 2010 05:16 AM (bixjr)

55 CommieCommiserates...duh....what the f did u expect???

"What til the real kicker...after stealing your ip and desgns for cool wind turbines, once they decide they need them, meaning they are satisfied we have wasted enough money improving the tech so it is comercially viable and reliable, they nationalize your plants...

This will happen to all us investments at the same time Tiawan becomes in play....I don't see why it is so hard to belive...

In one fell swoop our companies with be crushed and we will look around and realize we don't make jack squat...

Of course when we then cut off food to China, thing will get very interesting...then Russia has a real problem..."


Have noticed that the "comedy gold" is always buried somewhere in the comments these days...

Posted by: curious at July 09, 2010 05:22 AM (p302b)

56 27 Sure seems to indicate to me that those large investment pools are running scared right now.
--
Rich people don't invest in stocks. When you reach a certain income level, it's about wealth preservation, not wealth growth per se. Rich people put their money in bonds and more exotic instruments. Stocks tend to be less than half of their portfolios. In fact, that ratio of stocks to bonds has probably dropped even more since 2007. Lots of wealthy retirees have been burned not just on stocks, but also on ETFs and REITs as well. What's left? Uncle Sugar's bonds, that's what. Or commodities.
--

Monty,

I don't know the ratio but by "investment pools" I mean institutional investors, which I consider to include retirement funds, etc.  Those represent huge pools and although, as you note, they do not concentrate exclusively on stocks they do have a substantial presence on Wall Street. The lone wolf investor is a disappearing (but admirable) breed. Any of those investment pools that got caught exclusively in other instruments, such as real estate, well .... somebody ain't gonna retire quite in the splendor they planned.

We haven't seen the worst of things, yet.  The market can go to the moon but it will be small comfort to those going under.





Posted by: Full Moon at July 09, 2010 05:25 AM (6UfSo)

57 curious - who then buys the shit that those plants produce, and how do the Chinese ship it to them

Posted by: Jean at July 09, 2010 05:26 AM (fQbcU)

58

I hate one iota of you crackas !




Whats that, mom ? Spagetti'o's is ready and Dawson's Creek is on ?


brb, cracka ass crackas

Posted by: King Malik Shabazz at July 09, 2010 05:27 AM (t72+4)

59

Charlie Crist has some competition of the winner of this years George Hamilton Cocoa Butter Open tan contest.

Check out the obviously hard working AFL-CIO officer, the man with a tan, on the Fox Business home page who is calling for more boycottiness for AZ.

What a maroon!  (Dude must have the new 5 megawatt microwave personal tanner in his home.)

Union workers, your money is obviously well spent...

idiots!

Posted by: Hussein the Plumber at July 09, 2010 05:31 AM (RkRxq)

60 Posted by: Jean at July 09, 2010 09:26 AM (fQbcU)

The American citizen arrested and tried and sentenced and imprisoned for ostensibly being a business person and buying a list has everyone shaken up.  What everyone thought was "supposed to happen" well, they are beginning to start to think it all out and theya re doing it on websites in comments.  When Batchelor says "you who are getting on a plane to china realize that you might not be coming back" isn't funny

Posted by: curious at July 09, 2010 05:33 AM (p302b)

61 Listening to Beck play these comments and thinking to myself what if these guys were white and saying this?  And who uses the word "cracka".....what the heck is a "cracka" anyway?

Posted by: curious at July 09, 2010 05:35 AM (p302b)

62 Dooooooom.

Posted by: greek chorus at July 09, 2010 05:39 AM (4WbTI)

63 consulted an "authority", had never heard the word, so it si a nasty word.  And I thought under BO everyone was going to be nice.

Posted by: curious at July 09, 2010 05:44 AM (p302b)

64 and how do the Chinese ship it to them

Isn't all "green" crap delivered via moonbeams?

Posted by: HeatherRadish at July 09, 2010 05:45 AM (M9BNu)

65 Cracka please.

Posted by: A parrot at July 09, 2010 05:45 AM (OThQg)

66

But first, let's give the economy and policymakers some credit. Thanks to then-President George W. Bush's $700 billion financial rescue and President Barack Obama's $787 billion stimulus package, the economy has been brought back from the brink. The Federal Reserve gets credit, too...

You expect me to take this bunch seriously? 

Posted by: RushBabe at July 09, 2010 05:51 AM (W8m8i)

67 Posted by: RushBabe at July 09, 2010 09:51 AM (W8m8i)

One of my friends who is not a WS guy was asking the other night after a couple of good scotches "so, with all the charts and stuff these WS guys have, with all their analysts, how come we woke up one day and the "credit had dried up" as if someone flicked a switch and turned off the whole financial system?"

It's a good question.

Posted by: curious at July 09, 2010 05:56 AM (p302b)

68 You know when one of your sibs is like 17 and they take the car and they get stuck on the road somewhere and then mom yells at dad and dad yells at mom and everyone yells at the kid but then everyone thought the car was in tip top condition and they spend so much time yelling and blaming and carrying on that they never try to figure out what happened to the car to make it die on the highway?

Posted by: curious at July 09, 2010 06:01 AM (p302b)

69 I blame ACORN and SOROS

Posted by: denny crane at July 09, 2010 06:03 AM (I+7Zv)

70 Posted by: curious at July 09, 2010 10:01 AM (p302b)

Curious,

It was a credit bubble.  There was nothing behind the credit.  The flick of the switch didn't cause anything substantial to disappear--it merely dispelled the illusion.

To adjust your analogy, imagine that your folks drive out to get the 17-year-old, and they find her at the side of the road, standing next to a pumpkin, and wearing only one shoe.

Posted by: MikeO at July 09, 2010 06:08 AM (lBmZl)

71 One of my friends who is not a WS guy was asking the other night after a couple of good scotches "so, with all the charts and stuff these WS guys have, with all their analysts, how come we woke up one day and the "credit had dried up" as if someone flicked a switch and turned off the whole financial system?" It's not a mytery. Credit is always available...until it isn't. You can talk about LIBOR and the TED spread and EURIBOR all you want, but at the end of it all it comes down to trust and reliability. Banks loan to each other all the time, every day, constantly. But at any time if things go tits-up, they can slam down the window and hang a "BE BACK LATER" sign up. Credit can freeze up with terrifying suddenness. The same thing can happen in the commercial paper markets. A company that has successfully floated paper for day-to-day expenses for years (like Bear Stearns) might quite suddenly find that no one is buying their paper any more, even at huge premiums. The trust was there one day; it was gone the next.

Posted by: Monty at July 09, 2010 06:16 AM (4Pleu)

72 It's not a mytery. Mystery. Damn, I can NOT type this morning.

Posted by: Monty at July 09, 2010 06:16 AM (4Pleu)

73 I agree with Miss Marple, who wrote "[Shlaes] is thinking we are in 1932.   I am thinking we are at 1930 levels and still have a way to go."  IOW, another 80% down or so in the stock indexes.  If this seems prepostrous to you, I urge you (please!) to do further research.

@62:  A "cracka" is "one who cracks a whip," e.g., slave owner; derogatory reference to white people.


Posted by: GolfBoy at July 09, 2010 06:33 AM (WGL5k)

74 Now that I looked up what a "cracka" is, I'm a littled offended.  So, does that mean we are going to see a resurgence of the "n" word,a and after all that work to make sure people know it isn't a nice word?

Posted by: curious at July 09, 2010 06:33 AM (p302b)

75 @62:  A "cracka" is "one who cracks a whip," e.g., slave owner; derogatory reference to white people.

The term actually comes from a time long before slavery became an issue. It comes from the early days of Georgia when it was first being settled. Poor whites lived on a staple diet of "cracked corn" and the term Georgia Cracker was born as a disparaging term for them.

It later on got picked up the slaves and subsequently spread among all blacks today.

Posted by: Vic at July 09, 2010 06:39 AM (/jbAw)

76 so last week they were villifying the poor homeowners who were just walking away and now this week they are saying...."oo wait, it's not the poor, it's the rich"

Posted by: curious at July 09, 2010 06:40 AM (p302b)

77

The term actually comes from a time long before slavery became an issue. It comes from the early days of Georgia when it was first being settled. Poor whites lived on a staple diet of "cracked corn" and the term Georgia Cracker was born as a disparaging term for them.

who cracked this corn? was it a fellow name jimmy? And tell me, why should I care?

Posted by: Ben at July 09, 2010 06:46 AM (wuv1c)

78 who cracked this corn? was it a fellow name jimmy? And tell me, why should I care?

LOL, That song came along later and legend has it that it was performed by the slaves in relation to the "master" getting drunk off of corn whiskey and getting killed after falling off his horse when it was bitten by a horse fly.

IOW a Moron event. 

Posted by: Vic at July 09, 2010 06:54 AM (/jbAw)

79

Mitchum was one of the best interviews for Carson.  Two of his visits stand out:  Talking about filming Wild Bunch in Mexico and the time he showed up drunk and they gave him a glass of water to sober up.  After extolling the sources and virtues of water for about five minutes he poured it out and pronounced it unfit to drink.  He was a funny, cool guy that guys liked.  Hell of an actor.

Posted by: Mr. Dave at July 09, 2010 08:43 AM (YHCGn)

I remember those interviews. He also said that at the end when they were filming the sunset scene with all of the dead bodies someone farted and they had to do a retake because all of the dead bodies on the ground started flopping like fish from laughing.



My greatest fuck-up in life was that I once had the opportunity to have drinks with Robert Mitchum.....and I declined. While in college, I worked nights with an old dude who was part of his drinking crew, and he invited me to Mitchum's weekly Tuesday debauch at the Biltmore Hotel. I had mid-terms that week, so I took a rain check. Mitchum started having health problems a few weeks later and shut down the Tuesday drinking club.

Lost my Man-Card that day, never to return.

Posted by: IllTemperedCur at July 09, 2010 07:34 AM (P9+0W)

80 "The cause of America is, in a great measure, the cause of all mankind. Many circumstances have, and will arise, which are not local, but universal, and through which the principles of all lovers of mankind are affected, and in the event of which, their affections are interested. The laying a country desolate with fire and sword, declaring war against the natural rights of all mankind, and extirpating the defenders thereof from the face of the earth, is the concern of every man to whom nature hath given the power of feeling; of which class, regardless of party censure,"

"
A word is dead when it is said. Some say. I say it just, begins to live that day. "

Posted by: curious at July 09, 2010 07:39 AM (p302b)

81 Ah, the accidental poetry of the spambots. Hello, summer, good place for shopping, fashion, sexy, personality, maturity, from here to begin. Are you ready?

Posted by: Monty at July 09, 2010 08:05 AM (4Pleu)

82 The market is broken, and even an idiot like me can see that. I'm on the verge of getting out myself until things change -- this is just madness. Read Adam Smith's "The Money Game" and "Super Money". Covers the stock market in the 1960s and early 70s. It was just as crazy back then. Instead of dot coms, they had Telstar.

Posted by: Comrade Arthur at July 09, 2010 08:39 AM (a9o5m)

83

I met Mitchum on the set of War and Rememberance.

Good guy.

Posted by: Rat Patrol at July 09, 2010 05:56 PM (dQdrY)

84

Too many analysts are still looking at the EBITDA numbers, without understanding how much the "T" is going to change.

(Earnings before interest, taxes, depreciation, and amortization.)

Posted by: steve o at July 09, 2010 09:19 PM (IXYD1)

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