1 Much ado about nothing. All he needs to do is apologize, and everyone will love him again.....Right?

2 In the meantime, the ROE are getting more of our troops killed.  George Will wrote a column in WaPo the other day about the lack of air support, etc. 

The thought of any military commander having to apologize to the jugeared jackass community organizer makes me physically ill.

3 Obama firing McChrystal is like a Little League Coach firing Cal Ripken Jr.  I hope the teleprompter breaks.

4 It's almost Carteresque.
He could have the Secret Service beat him off with a canoe paddle

5 Send in the Clowns

6 He can't stop the buck like Truman.
He can't face down the unions like Truman.
He can't speak plainly like Truman.
He can't call down the wrath on our enemies like Truman.

But he damn sure can fire a respected general.

7 He found an ass to Kick!

8 I hope if he gets fired that McChrystal tells the boy-man-in-chief in no uncertain terms how feckless and incompetent he really is. Organize that, Barry!

9
DO NOT question dictator Obama.

10 McChrystal reportedly voted for Obama.  Nothing reflect worse on his judgment than that.

11 Had Rolling Stone provided "refreshments" during the interview?

12
How dare anyone say anything bad about our dear leader.  Obama should be dictator for life.

13 on "morning joe" they were shocked and joe couldn't think of anything that compared to this subordination besides macarthur. nonsense. they were pretty mild observations and there is a long history of military gripping about presidents. the left is heavily invested in image and terribly thin-skinned.

14 All of this was supposed to be "on background?" So, this is the far left trying to undermine the war effort and take Obama down a couple of notches for not ending the war quickly enough?

15 OMG.  Beck is doing a hilarious bit on Rolling Stone and McChrystal's staff. 

16 griping

17 Finally, an ass to kick!! Rahm! RAHM! Is that oil leak fixed now??? Where the hell's Rahm? Where the hell IS everybody? There's too much truffle oil on my waygu sandwich! My golf club's are dirty! Air Force One smells of fuel-oil on the outside! It's too cold in here! Joe drooled on my desk again! I'm bored! Who the hell's in charge around here, anyhow??

18
I think I'm going to faint.  McCrystal's a dead man.

19 "I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very freedom that I provide, and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather you just said thank you, and went on your way,"

It's a shame they ruined such a good rant with such a lousy ending. The rant was great, but the premise and the ending but cruise needed to get shot at the end to make the movie tolerable

20 With McChrystal being on record as voting for Obama - firing him and putting him on the talk show circuit would be a very risky thing to do. Maybe a lateral "promotion" to desk in the Pentagon.

21 The fact that McCrystal did an interview with Rolling Stoner at all tells you all you need to know.

22 For all that's holy... what in God's name was *any* senior military officer saying *anything* on background to "Rolling *bleeping* Stone"??? WTF, over? They sure as hell weren't being interviewed by the Wall Street Journal or the Army Times.... did they think "Rolling Stone" wasn't going to go medieval on their asses with this type of interview? To quote my Jewish friends: "Oy, oy, oy..."

23 Maybe now we can get a General in Afghanistan who can get some damned windmills built. /

24 I think Gen McCrystal is mean, visious, skunk, and a rascal. He should be fired for usurpering Presidence Obama's assthority.  Anyway does McCrystal think that Presidence Obama is stupid and not know whats going on!! I could this with that moron Bush, but this is Presidence Obama, a Harvard Grad. Bush went to some 5th rate Texas colledge!

25 If Obama wants to run the nation like a third world country he better remember that other dictators require the support of the military.  Just sayin' and now back to work. 
Ya'll keep'um straight out thar.

26 Gen. McChrystal and his minions said some things "on background" with a Rolling Stone reporter, who then obliged their unspoken request and ran with it.

If that's true, it was a professional mistake on the general's part, but maybe he and his staff just couldn't take the stumbling and bumbling any longer. One thing's for sure - there's more butthurt on Pennsylvania Avenue than in all of Turkey's prisons combined. 

27 In the meantime, troops are dying.  Can't call in air support because of "civilians" in the area.  Can't enter a dwelling to get the bad guys who were just firing at us because the ROE demand the Afghan forces go too, and they refuse to.

Yeah, these ROE are made of win all right.  Sigh.

28 I don't really have a dog in this fight, but my sacred honor compels me to inform you all that General McChrystal and I had a brief but torrid affair a few years ago.  I hope this isn't bad timing for anyone involved.

29 Just another Barry voter who is waking up to the reality of what Barry is really all about

30 I suspect the hate for Eikenberry by the military will be clear.

31 #29 


lol

32
Remember me?

33 This is a big fucking deal!

34

Just a stunning lack of judgement, 1, not just the comments, but...Rolling Stone? WHO? Oh, that irrelevant, dying, awful rag that probably gets 90% of its subscription base from kids in dorms under the name "Heywood Jablowme"?

 

Second- Look- No great fan of Obama, but we have a military commanded by civillians. This sort of crap is unacceptable no matter who is President. If it was a kid out of ROTC his ass would probably be grass. No different for the General.

 

35 Will be another interesting accomplishment for Obama, firing two commanding Generals in the middle of a war.  Far as I can recall, Truman just fired the one.

36 I think McChrystal knew exactly what he was doing during the interview: he obviously doesn't want to work for an incompetent President any longer. He wants to get fired.

37 Will Sheriff "Bite me" attend tomorrow's meeting?

38 By straight UCMJ, it doesn't look good for Gen. McCrystal. Problem is, there are political considerations, and BO's a pretty intensely political animal, so you know that's going to carry the balance here. So riddle me this...suppose McCrystal is reassigned to command a stack of Post-It notes in Florida. Further suppose Afghanistan goes directly to h*** (do not pass Go, do not collect a trillion dollars in mineral rights). Isn't McCrystal MORE of a political danger under those circumstances, rather than returned to the field with restrictions to preside over a somewhat slower decline and withdrawl? There is a second question, which I will not ask for now, but I'd be surprised if it wasn't already in mind out there...

39 A military man just called Beck and offered up this opinion.  He's served under the general and has great respect for him.

He believes McChrystal is falling on his sword for the troops.  He knew he'd get fired, but the ROE are coming from this military-hating WH.  So he gave an interview he knew would get a ton of attention.

If that's true, then good on him. 

40

Rolling Stone?

I guess the Village Voice wasn't available.

41 McChrystal apparently said that he was disappointed in Obama's lack of preparedness for a meeting and betrayed by Obama's ambassador to Afghanistan, Karl Eikenberry, who he accuses of undoing the work the military has been fighting and dying for.

They're all idiots.  Every single one of them.  They gladly work for a third worlder who hates the US and everything we stand for.  Further, they work for such a Hannibal-wannabe who is an inept retard who couldn't even be trusted to take care of someone's pets while they're gone.  It is a joke and the fact that any of these dipshits works for the Indonesian says enough about them, especially after he showed his true stripes plainly enough in the Afghan troop surge fiasco to let anyone with a brain know what they were working for.

The fact that McChrystal admits to having voted for the Indonesian Imbecile is clear proof that he shouldn't be in any position of responsibility, to begin with.  I mean, really.  How stupid does one have to be to vote for that retard?  And stupid is the best that can be said about such people.

42 If Obama fires his commanding general for a non-military issue he will reap the consequences going forward.  Who would want the job after that ?  If he fires him the Afghan war is almost certainly lost.  McCrystal should speak his mind, apologize for the remarks becoming public and dare Obama to fire him.  If he gets fired he retires within days ...  and will do alot more interviews as a "civilian" ...

43 Maybe the if the oil spill had some unflattering remarks for Odouchebag, it would have been taken care of by now.

This Prez has the thinnest skin.

Pussy

44

Meh. Other than his vote for Obama, I don't think the  man is an idiot.

It all seems very calculated to me. But Rolling Stone??

Clearly he wanted out. There must be some serious behind the scenes drama going on beyond what we've already seen and he thought this would be the most high profile way to get his point across.

 

 

45 And to reiterate what others have written, why in the hell would he or anyone say anything to commie Rolling Stone?

46 Second- Look- No great fan of Obama, but we have a military commanded by civillians. This sort of crap is unacceptable no matter who is President. If it was a kid out of ROTC his ass would probably be grass. No different for the General. Posted by: Andy The Squirrel at June 22, 2010 09:47 AM (xDozT) And it is also unacceptable to run a war out of the White House with rediculous rules of engagements and have to answer to a bunch of ignorant commie bastards and put our best at risk. But having said that, McChrystal should have resigned and blasted Obama and Gates in civies

47 I be saying that Presadence Obmamama is be doing a goods jobs in the war in Irack and Afganastien. He be cleaning ups Gorge Bushs misteaks. I be standing bye Presadence Obamama and victoree bys the time wee leave next yere. Threee chairs for Presadenvce Obamama and his be warr stratagee. Nows he needs to ficks the economee.

48 Could be McChrystal doesn't want Petarus to get to big of lead on him for 2014?

49 Yeah  Dave ,but Lincoln fired a shit load of 'em .

50 f Obama fires his commanding general for a non-military issue he will reap the consequences going forward. Who would want the job after that ? If he fires him the Afghan war is almost certainly lost. McCrystal should speak his mind, apologize for the remarks becoming public and dare Obama to fire him. If he gets fired he retires within days ... and will do alot more interviews as a "civilian" ... Posted by: Jeff at June 22, 2010 09:51 AM (hYYqD) The war is lost.

51 I don't think McCrystal wants to get fired. That is a career ender. He could have gotten out without ending his career. Even if he wanted to retire he could have just asked to retire without getting fired. Occam has the answer: McCrystal has no common sense whatsoever. He is therefore a liability to his country and our troops.

52 I'm thinking that July of 2011 is racing towards McChrystal at the speed of light.

53

This war is lost.

(this time I'm right and you know it.)

54 The Biden/"Bite me" thing came across more as a slam at the press than the VP, I thought.  He didn't want to be asked about Biden's plans again and suggested first pretending not to hear it, and then saying "Biden? Bite me?"

But the press can't conceive that anyone would say bite me to them, and has reported it as a remark directed to the VP, which is not clear from the story.

55 I think Michael Yon got himself a huge boner over this.  Famously not a fan of McChrystal.

I need to read that Rolling Stone but apparently McChrystal does bitch alot about the incomptetence of the political leadership and all the bullshit he's been dealing with.  Interesting to learn was Hillary seems to be on the side of the angels in this fight.

Back to Yon, he's right about the direction of this war.  We're fucking finished.  We elected the wrong man at the wrong time and he's led us into a goddamn military defeat.  And that is a goddamn shame.

As an aside, I thought generals didn't customarily vote?

56 BREAKING NEWS: McChrystal to set up $5 Billion dollar fund to compensate those offended by his interview. All is well now.

57 "What Should Happen to Gen. McChrystal?"
The results of the poll are surprising so far..

58 Gen. McChrystal Ordered to the White House

It's a trap!

59 It was time to pull all the troops out and bring them home as soon as the Won assumed dictatorship.

Everyone who dies over there is doing so now for political reasons.  He has no intent of winning. 

60 Hey,we could always bring back that nice General Eaton from his busy schedule of touring with MoveOn and ANSWER to straighten those babykillers out,,,

61 Sorry 2012, gotta keep the eye on th ball

62 Back to Yon, he's right about the direction of this war. We're fucking finished. We elected the wrong man at the wrong time and he's led us into a goddamn military defeat. And that is a goddamn shame. As an aside, I thought generals didn't customarily vote? Posted by: Robert at June 22, 2010 09:53 AM (jYQ2v) Yes they vote, they just don't usually announce it. And yes the War is lost

63

I suspect that every fucked up new thing like the ROE dohickey that the military is now doing is coming down from the little shitbag in the White House.

Book contract for McChrystal (Ret.)!!

64 Yeah, these ROE are made of win all right.  Sigh.

Posted by: Jane D'oh at June 22, 2010 09:44 AM (UOM4

McChrystal and Petraeus are both big supporters of these insane ROEs.  They are both "hearts and minds" fighters, which is why they were kept on and promoted.  They bear as much of the blame as anyone.  Petraeus thinks that he discovered the fact that arabs can be bought off, temporarily.  He thinks they really like him.  He doesn't understand that there's no such thing as a resevoir of goodwill among arabs.  They can be your allies for 200 years, and then, one day stab you in the back for no discernible reason.  That's the desert culture.  Westerners have never really been able to wrap their minds around this fact of the middle east.

65 That McCrystal agreed to be interviewed by RS was his 2nd serious mistake. Voting for the jug-eared fukstik in chief was the first.

66 McCrystal ordered to the White House? I guess the General also likes to play golf?

67 Everyone who dies over there is doing so now for political reasons. He has no intent of winning. Posted by: Vic at June 22, 2010 09:54 AM (6taRI) Yup

68 McChrystal has to go. 

Or rather, let me put it this way: if Obama chooses to cashier McChrystal, I will fully support that action despite the fact that I believe McChrystal to be nearly 100% correct in his criticisms and Obama to be 110% a fuck-up putz. 

The chain of command is the chain of command.  You don't call out your commander-in-chief and his team like this, in public, on the record.  Not if you're in the armed services.  There is no "Obama" exception to this rule.  Just as McArthur learned that there was no "Truman" exception to the rule and deservedly paid for it. 

It's just that simple. 

(Ironically enough, I suspect that Obama will not fire McChrystal.  Politically, he's too weak to do so.  Sad sick irony indeed, but maybe for the best.)

69 And yes the War is lost

Posted by: nevergiveup at June 22, 2010 09:55 AM (0GFWk)

You may want to change your name.

70 (Ironically enough, I suspect that Obama will not fire McChrystal. Politically, he's too weak to do so. Sad sick irony indeed, but maybe for the best.) Posted by: Jeff B. at June 22, 2010 09:56 AM (l1KFP) At this point a man with honor, and I believe McChrystal has Honor, would resign. And I believe he will.

71 Powell,Clark,Eaton ...we have produced the most poitical class of generals since the Civil War,and every bit as destructive to the nationalgood. Something has gone seriously wrong at West Point and we need to find out what.

72 Seeing as McChrystal voted for Obama, I'd question his innate intelligence.

73 "DO NOT question dictator Obama."

That sounds like DO NOT taunt Happy Fun Ball.

74 And yes the War is lost Posted by: nevergiveup at June 22, 2010 09:55 AM (0GFWk) You may want to change your name. Posted by: TexasJew in Israel at June 22, 2010 09:56 AM (VnDuH) The old catch 22 with Obama in the White House?

75
The real crime in showing contempt toward Retarded Barry is the fact that the little shit is beneath contempt.

76

And to reiterate what others have written, why in the hell would he or anyone say anything to commie Rolling Stone?

He wanted to make sure the administration heard what he has to say, and it's the only thing they read.

77 Last night caught the tail end of Batchelor, you know the whispering aprt where he talks about what is going to be the talk the next day.  Didn't even get that, the phone rang....so i have to go back and check but, I'll tell you, it wasn't this.

I mean boom boom boom.....we hear about this, everyone ruminates, general is ordered home and my oh my politico just happens to get a copy of the article, within hours of us hearing about this.....it's going too fast...doesn't seem quite right but can't put my finger on it...

78 So, this is the far left trying to undermine the war effort and take Obama down a couple of notches for not ending the war quickly enough?

BINGO.

79 Barky's probably pissed that his meeting with McChrystal is delaying his tee time.

Just the thought of a general, any general, having to kiss Barky's ring and be scolded by that jugeared fucktard, makes my blood boil.

80 Look, y'all, spare me the defeatism about "the war is lost" blah blah blah.  Save it for a "The War Is Lost!" thread, when that rolls around.  There's no need to head over that cliff of despair just yet. 

81 Hah West Pointer against a Harvard grad(maybe). I'll bet on the West Point grad, Special Forces Commander etc etc. Eikenberry two star Gen. is politician Gen, kiss ass to get there. Eikenberry is a West Point grad himself but all his life politics was his game and he knows the game. Not so sure McChrystal finds political game appealing as it is to Eikenberry. Although you got to get it if your Gen.

82 Something has gone seriously wrong at West Point and we need to find out what.

That's easy. It's the same pathogen that has debilitated our civilian educational institutions - political correctness.

83 Was just at msnbc.com and their poll currently has more than 2:1 AGAINST McChrystal being asked to resign.  If Obama's lost msnbc, then how bad have things actually gotten for him?

84 He's a goner. It would be different if he were riding a wave of military success, but, alas, the one unforgiveable sin for a General is a lack of victories. Any rudeness or impudence is forgiveable if the President can bask in the warm waters of military success. If not.... There is something ill-starred about the Macs: McClellan, MacArthur, and now McChrystal.

85

I love all this chain of command shit. It's so wonderfully sucky-assed.

I don't personally think that any Ameican should take one fucking order from a damn clown like Obama. I'm not in the military, however. But if I were, I'd fucking quit rather than do Obama's bidding if I fully believed that it were endangering the nation.

If McChrystal thinks that Obama is acting against the best interests of this country, then he has the right to quit and make his feelings public.

Maybe this just was his very strange way of quitting.

86
Andy, agreed: any officer who makes remarks like that about a superior officer is insubordinate and should be cashiered. Period. The fact that what he said about The Lightbearer happens to be true, is irrelevant.

McChrystal came in with high hopes, but he has been a  disappointment. Among other things, he tossed Michael Yon out of Afghanistan for not toeing the line. He seems to share The Lightbearer's attitude toward the news media: they are tolerated only as long as they are willing to serve as a propaganda arm of the Obama regime.

The only problem is that McChrystal will undoubtedly be replaced by someone far worse, whose job will be to implement Obama's original mad-dash-for-the-exits "strategy" for the Middle East. It will be done in the name of "cutting the deficit" and "putting America back to work", but surrender is surrender no matter how you spin it.

87 The war isn't lost - but it isn't won either. Neither Obama nor Bush have declared what victory looks like in Astan - so it going to be hard to declare victory.

88 I think he'll keep him on. This is political theater, to gain more control over McChrystal. Maybe McChrystal will resign, but Obama will try to keep him on, thinking he has him over a barrel.

89 Just so you know in advance, Mr. President, I have also slept with Wesley Clark.

90

Oil spill and Arizona illegal alien crises, weeks of hem-hawing needed. Insult Bambi, immediate action will be taken.

91 One word:  "corpse".  That pretty much says all anyone needs to know about Pres. Jugears McFuctard, Commander-in-Chief.

92 I'm not advocating anything stupid

Statement....

...just that insubordination to Obama from military personnel is pretty low on my list of concerns.

...AAAND contradiction!  Seriously: military insubordination to the civilian leadership should always be fuckin' near the top of your list of concerns.  If you like the idea of a Republic, that is. 

For christ's sake people, we have these rules for a reason.  It's not a stupid reason.  Nor is it something that we can just start to ignore now because Obama is a twatscar.  I don't care if McChystal was serving under President Bill Ayers.  

93 What a clusterfuck this country has become since January 20th of 2008.

94 The war in Afghanistan is lost !!!!!

95 You don't get to be general without being a darn good politician. He knew what he was doing and what he was saying and how it would play. What he said was intentional.

Work from there.
This is the tip of a very, very big iceburg.

Obama--the man who promised and promised he'd "listen to the generals" (not like that retard Bush)--is now going to fire another general just because he didn't like what he was telling him.

96 If that's true, then good on him. 

Posted by: Jane D'oh at June 22, 2010 09:50 AM (UOM4

That's what I think, too. (See Top Headlines thread) Going on record as having voted for Obama gives him political cover, as someone else pointed out in these comments. The administration can't afford to have him "Going Rogue," so I expect an agreement will be made.

97 Nor is it something that we can just start to ignore now because Obama is a twatscar.

I'm sorry, I was under the impression that the President is a cockholster, not a twatscar.  At least that's what I've been going around saying ....

98 For christ's sake people, we have these rules for a reason. It's not a stupid reason. Nor is it something that we can just start to ignore now because Obama is a twatscar. I don't care if McChystal was serving under President Bill Ayers. Posted by: Jeff B. at June 22, 2010 10:09 AM (l1KFP) Blindly following orders and directives from civilian leadership is also not a tradition in the Military. But there are ways to deal with it. Like resigning and then blasting the administration.

99

>> There is something ill-starred about the Macs: McClellan, MacArthur, and now McChrystal.

Was just thinking that.

Truman was said to have told his staff he should have fired Mac a year earlier than he did.  He didn't want to disgrace the guy.

Also interestingly enough, he had the full support of the Joint Chiefs.  Every one of them signed off on MacArthur's firing.

100 I don't care if McChystal was serving under President Bill Ayers. 

Uh...you should.

101 Time to demote Petraeus and put him back on the line?

102 McCrystal is history. Zero cannot afford to keep the rotting corpse of that albatross around his neck. It would make it hard to swing a golf club.

103 If I were the General the 1st words out of his mouth when he meets with odumbass is Mr. President I resign.

104 99

...AAAND contradiction!  Seriously: military insubordination to the civilian leadership should always be fuckin' near the top of your list of concerns.

Insubordination is not following orders.  Calling Obama a "pussy communist" is just speaking the truth.  _{^{(angels on pins treading on fools and such)}}

105 I can see severe moral problems in the Military starting to develop. Up to now, I have NOT seen that, but this is getting serious. This and the absurd rules of engagement.

106 i eagerly await McChrystals tell all book. I hope its out around October 2012

107 f I were the General the 1st words out of his mouth when he meets with odumbass is Mr. President I resign. Posted by: 'Nam Grunt at June 22, 2010 10:14 AM (omb6g) Yes

108 I intend to ask BP for another $20 Billion. This should resolve the problem between myself and the General. Also I am setting up a blue ribbon panel to investigate the General and report back to me in 6 months. I have chosen Wesly Clark to lead the panel with distinguished members such as Jane Fonda, Country Joe and the Fish, Tom Hayden, and Janis Joplin. This problem is solved people thanks to my brilliant reaction to this festering situation created by Dick Chenney.....

109 My kid leaves for Afghanistan this week.

110 I would like to see him show up with oh lets say 20,000 of our troops, some tanks, planes, etc

111 f I were the General the 1st words out of his mouth when he meets with odumbass is Mr. President I resign. Posted by: 'Nam Grunt at June 22, 2010 10:14 AM (omb6g) Well that would be "I resign SIR!" And then I'd turn and leave his office.

112 Posted by: nevergiveup at June 22, 2010 10:15 AM (0GFWk)

I was told by a lib/dem that this was the worst month for military deaths in the entire course of the war.  It upset me to hear that, it upsets them too.  That upsets everyone, everyone agrees.   Also, the new rules of engagement thing that is rumored.  Could it be that he is protecting his troops, that no one has been listening to him and now, sadly, they will.

113 My kid told me right out of boot camp how everyone he spoke with felt about Barky.  But he also said he knew he had to obey his CiC (which made me throw up in my mouth).  D'oh and I keep our opinion of the jackass in the WH to ourselves where our son is concerned.  But we worry every. single. day.

114

Comrade Zero was “uncomfortable and intimidated” by a roomful of military brass.  Gee, I guess the ability to spew rhetoric about lowering ocean levels only gets you so far when you're among people who actually have to produce results under difficult circumstances where the opponent wants to kill them.

Maybe our man-child POTUS should stick to meetings with people like Bono, Biden and Bill Ayres.

115 All Republics end Jeff, not sure I wouldn't prefer McChrystal to show up with a Ranger Battalion vice Obama's Gramscain rot

116

His "insubordination" is Obama's problem to deal with, not ours.  If he is telling the truth, any information he offers in terms of the civilian leadership and its fecklessness is fine with me.  Insubordinate-then fire him and you get to deal with the consequences. 

117 My kid leaves for Afghanistan this week.

You and your kid are in my prayers.  Ours leaves first of next year or earlier. 

118

That's 1!

Obama said he's withdraw the troops from Afghanistan. He's just doing it slowly.

119 Thoughts about this situation:

1.  For some time I have thought that Obama wants to get out of Afghanistan but be able to blame it on the military, rather than his own screwed up thinking. 

2.  Hillary comes off pretty good in this article and coupled with the rumors about Rahm, the release of the list of countries who offered oil spill aid and were refused (coming from the State Department),   I am thinking she is getting ready to leave pretty soon in order to position herself for 2012.

3. Why McCrystal gave the Rolling Stone interview: on purpose,  at someone's suggestion.  Two choices in this: either he was set up by the administration with collusion with Rolling Stone,  OR he deliberately did so because he knew it would attract attention,  and unlike the WSJ or Army Times,  Rolling Stone would not hold back on printing aides' opinions nor would they pretty it up. 

Wheels within wheels.  I don't know what the answer is,  but this is proving to be a very interesting week.

120 I read the article and most of the money quotes come from unnamed officials.  I don't see how McChrystal can be shitcanned over this.

121 CNN Breaking News: Barack Obama golfed a 102 today at Andrews AFB. This is the best score yet for our leader. Now back to all day coverage of the "Gay Pride Day Parade in San Francisco"

122 Seriously: military insubordination to the civilian leadership should always be fuckin' near the top of your list of concerns.  If you like the idea of a Republic, that is.

The chain-of-command is broken, and the Republic is already gone.

Obama has no fealty to the Constitution he took an oath to preserve, protect, and defend.

The entire tree is poisoned.

123 Awkward Davies @ 50 - 50 Yeah Dave ,but Lincoln fired a shit load of 'em. That is because Lincoln was trying to win. Obama will probably replace McChrystal with a Marine. Let's see...wasn't Hillary going to be a Marine?

124 I guess we can say McChrystal crossed the Rubicon.

125 I have a suspicious feeling that CIC Obama intends to give him a field promotion to caddy.

126 For christ's sake people, we have these rules for a reason.  It's not a stupid reason.  Nor is it something that we can just start to ignore now because Obama is a twatscar.  I don't care if McChystal was serving under President Bill Ayers. 

Posted by: Jeff B. at June 22, 2010 10:09 AM (l1KFP)

What's this "we" shit?

 

127

130 I read the article and most of the money quotes come from unnamed officials.  I don't see how McChrystal can be shitcanned over this.

Very simple. When you are in charge, you are responsible. Thats the way it works in the military.

128

I say fire McChrystal, immediately.  And since word on the street is that Rahm is out job hunting, send him over to Aghanistan instead.  One look at the nude dead fish in the shower room and the Taliban will undoubtedly surrender immediately, problem solved.

In the meantime we can put the General in front of a bunch of blowhard Congressman who can basically demand that he ask all sorts of damn fool questions while a major crisis is going on, not solving any sort of problems but making sure that these self imporant twits get their 30 second sound bites on TV for the folks back home.

Then the administration can call the Attorney General, dispatch a team of lawyers and they can figure out who to sue for the whole thing.  Worked like a charm for the Gulf Oil spill, I say, stick with it.

It's really too bad for McChrystal though, it's not like he can just leave the country and cross the border into Mexico.  Unlike us, they actually enforce their immigration laws.

129 A guy close to McChrystal said that first, he has a serious disdain for guys in suits (which is understandable), but that he's also a majorly cocky dude.  Put those two together, and the conclusion is that a blowup like this was waiting to happen.

Posted by: Wodeshed at June 22, 2010 10:17 AM (MFbfZ)

But, this has nothing to do with either of those things.  This blowup is purely due to the mind-numbing incompetence and ignorance of the administration.  That said, The Precedent would certainly be within the traditional power of the Commander-in-Chief to fire McChrystal.  This would be one of the only times the Indonesian Imbecile would do something that was actually within the bounds of power of the Executive to do.

This should have happened during the Afghan troop surge intentional dithering.  That was beyond pathetic.

130 f I were the General the 1st words out of his mouth when he meets with odumbass is Mr. President I resign. I would have an envelope with a signed resignation in hand when I walked in the room.

131 Eisenhower was wrong on Patton; Truman was wrong on MacArthur; Obama is wrong about . . . well, everything military related. See a pattern here?

Oh, this "military shouldn't talk bad about the civilian leadership" sure has worked out well.

Or: Maybe we can quit watching stupid fucking Hollywood dreck that always paints the generals and the military as violent, stupid and power-hungry and maybe, just maybe, trust that they are citizens as well and actually have the best interest of the US in mind?

132 Obama may be calling him home to fire him.

At this point in time, that may not be as bad as it seems. The general likely has other pursuits that he'd be able to devote more time to, without having to answer to the incompetent boobs that is currently our civilian leadership.

133

McCrystal is going to be fired.  Barry will look even more foolish than he does now if he allows the Gen. to stay.  He should have maintained his self respect and resigned. 

But no matter how this cake is sliced, this is very bad news for the administration.  McCrystal's attitude is more than likely the prevailing attitude in the military.  Very bad news for the mother of all incompetents.

134 There's simply no good way to spin this for McChrystal.

If he wanted to quit he should have just fucking quit. This crap is beneath a man of his achievements.

I don't know what the fuck he was thinking but he deserves what he about to get.

At least Adm. Fallon had the decency to walk away as soon as he realized the fallout of his Esquire profile was going to be.

But hey, at least the war in Afghanistan is going so well the military leadership there has plenty of time to settle political scores. Eye on the ball and all.

This is just a reminder what extraordinary men Gen. Petraeus and Amb. Crocker are and what a damn near miracle their teaming was in Iraq.

135 The President will make a political decision here. He'll focus on what happens if he fires McChrystal and then the war goes badly. He'll conclude he can't afford to fire McChrystal.

136 70 Nice catch, TJ!

137

CNN Breaking News: Barack Obama golfed a 102 today at Andrews AFB. This is the best score yet for our leader. Now back to all day coverage of the "Gay Pride Day Parade in San Francisco

this reminds me of the stories in North Korea about how our Dear Leader had 8 hole in ones in one round of golf.

138 118 That is funny except that if someone was to lead a Revolution that Gen. seems would be crazy enough to do it. Byron York article is something else a little clue to his psychology perhaps?

139 102 You don't get to be general without being a darn good politician. He knew what he was doing and what he was saying and how it would play. What he said was intentional.

He made a few politically stupid comments (and the article notes he has done that in the past as well) and then his hangers-on helpfully piled on and fleshed the whole thing out for the RS scribbler. They did him in more than he did.

Honestly, I think people are ascribing higher motives to him and some genius plan in error.  I don't get the sense he would have imploded his career this way on purpose.

I actually thought the article was interesting all the way around, from the candid views of his staff to those of the soldiers. 

Predictably Jake Tapper is making jokes about the General on Twitter and outlining the historical precedent for firing a General,  rather than talking about the questions the article raises about the over-all leadership in the administration and realizing he just got his journalistic ass handed to him by a barely relevant pop music magazine.

140

#25 "Barbra Pdunda"

Late getting in here, but damn that was funny.

141

There's simply no good way to spin this for McChrystal.

If he wanted to quit he should have just fucking quit. This crap is beneath a man of his achievements.

I agree. He should have done what everyone else does. Quit and write a tell all.

He's a schmuck.

Also, as mentioned before, he voted for Obama, he deserved what he got.

142 This is just a reminder what extraordinary men Gen. Petraeus and Amb. Crocker are and what a damn near miracle their teaming was in Iraq. Posted by: DrewM. at June 22, 2010 10:24 AM (X/Lqh) But THAT was with a PRESIDENT in the White House who said " What kind of support do you need from me to WIN"?. That is NOT the case now. now we have a president directing directly the conduct of the war.

143

It's seriously hard to 'win' afghanistan.

What the fuck do you do with it, once you've secured it? Besides hand it back over to crazy goat-fucking dirt farmers, I mean?

Because that seems to be the whole point, keep the goat-infested dirt farm out of the hands of crazy goat-fucking dirt farmers, indefinitely.

144 At least McChrystal will be able to buy a cheap house anywhere in america after he retires. He can probably get a good deal on a forclosed home.

145 I do like our Gen. to be cocky though and walk the talk.

146 How to win in Afghanistan? Win in Pakistan and Iran.

147 Cue stock footage of Truman and Mac.

Also, cue footage of me asking why the commanding general in Afghanistan is giving interviews to Rolling Effing Stone.  Not to mention INDISCREET interviews.

Is there at least a broom closet somehere in Washington that has a shred of coherence at the moment?

148 #153 But THAT was with a PRESIDENT in the White House who said " What kind of support do you need from me to WIN"?. That is NOT the case now. now we have a president directing directly the conduct of the war.

Sounds familiar.   LBJ redux?

Heads are starting to roll.

Update: Civilian member of Gen. Stanley McChrystal's staff who set up Rolling Stone interview resigns, military official tells NBC News

149

It's seriously hard to 'win' afghanistan.

What the fuck do you do with it, once you've secured it? Besides hand it back over to crazy goat-fucking dirt farmers, I mean?

Because that seems to be the whole point, keep the goat-infested dirt farm out of the hands of crazy goat-fucking dirt farmers, indefinitely

We should have left in 2003.

Let the Northern Alliance control the country. Back them with arms and money as long as they fight the Taliban and Al Qaeda.

Too bad Osama Bin Ladin was smart enough to kill the only man who could have controlled that country, Ahmed Shah Massoud.  Bin Ladin had him killed on September 10, 2001 in a Godfather-type house cleaning.

 

150 I'm NOT thin-skinned! I'm NOT!

151 "137

130 I read the article and most of the money quotes come from unnamed officials.  I don't see how McChrystal can be shitcanned over this.

Very simple. When you are in charge, you are responsible. Thats the way it works in the military.

Posted by: maddogg at June 22, 2010 10:23 AM (OlN4e)"

That is the way it is everywhere and why I was arguing that the bp CEO and chariman are responsible for everything that happened on that rig.

152 Looks as if the Russians and Chinese are going to split Afghanistan down the middle and get all the goodies under ground, Karzai will be hanging from a light post by the end of 2011 and our Brave Troops will become the new Vietnam Vets.

153

straight UCMJ, it doesn't look good for Gen. McCrystal

 

Until he returns to DC, reports to the CinC and announces that he's gay. And the July 4th fireworks will start early this year.

154 "McCrystal's attitude is more than likely the prevailing attitude in the military."

But the men and women in our armed forces will carry on anyway - because President's are temporary.

155 This is the kind of shit that happens with no coherent leadership at the top. People in the Military know that Obama and Gates are full of shit and that the Mission is FUBAR.

156

Democrats all. They deserve each other.

 

Probably used Rolling Stone because he knew the assclowns would read it.

157 But THAT was with a PRESIDENT in the White House who said " What kind of support do you need from me to WIN"?
Posted by: nevergiveup at June 22, 2010 10:27 AM (0GFWk)

Yes and no.

Sure Bush put them in place and fought for them but in the end they had to make it work. That was far from a given.

Also, let's not let Bush off the hook entirely. He was also responsible for the conduct of the Afghan war and didn't have nearly the success there he had in Iraq.

Personally, I think Iraq was the more important fight (if you had to choose and Presidents always have to), but it wasn't like Bush got the right team there at any point in the post 03-04 period.

158

How to win in Afghanistan? Win in Pakistan and Iran.

Pretty much.

But that takes a compitent covert espionage/black-op organization, which we don't have.

159 The pdf is no longer.  I guess Rolling stone didn't like politico getting the traffic.

160 WELL WE'RE BIG ARMY HOTSHOTS
WE LOVE TO TAKE POTSHOTS
AND WE'RE LOVED EVERYWHERE WE GO

WE FIGHT FOR BEAUTY
AND WE FIGHT FOR TRUTH
AT TEN TRILLION DOLLARS A THROW

WE TAKE ALL KINDS OF HILLS
TO GIVE US ALL KINDS OF THRILLS
BUT THE THRILL WE'VE NEVER KNOWN

IS THE THRILL THAT WILL GET YOU
WHEN YOU GET YOUR PICTURE
ON THE COVER OF THE ROLLING STONE

    chorus;
GOING TO SEE MY PICTURE ON THE COVER
GONNA BUY FIVE COPIES FOR MY MOTHER
GONNA SEE MY SMILING FACE
ON THE COVER OF THE ROLLING STONE

I GOT A MARXIST COMMANDER
AN AFFIRMATIVE ACTION PANDER
WHO REALLY CHAPS MY ASS
I GOT  POOR OLD FAKE HAIR BIDEN
ACTING LIKE THE RETARD IN THE CLASS

NOW LETS ALL DECIDE
TO LET THE WAR RIDE
BUT YOU WON'T FIRED FOR THAT


LIKE THE FIRING THAT WILL GET'CHA
WHEN YOU GET YOUR PICTURE
ON THE COVER OF THE ROLLING STONES

    chorus

WE GOT A LOT OF LITTLE
TEEN AGE LEFTY REPORTERS
WHO'D PRINT ANYTHING WE'D SAY

WE GOT A BUNCH OF RETARDS IN CONGRESS
 KEEP GETTING IN OUR WAY
WE GOT THE BEST TROOPS IN THE WORLD
SO WE NEVER HAVE TO BE ALONE

AND WE KEEP GETTING RICHER
BUT WE CAN'T GET OUR PICTURE ON THE COVER OF THE ROLLING STONES

            chorus

161

Looks as if the Russians and Chinese are going to split Afghanistan down the middle and get all the goodies under ground, Karzai will be hanging from a light post by the end of 2011 and our Brave Troops will become the new Vietnam Vets.

Russia is never going back. That would be like us going back to Vietnam.

We had our shot, we failed(for various reasons), we're done with it.

So are the Russians with Afghanistan. They want nothing to do with the country other than to have a friendly government installed.

The Chinese may just be dumb enough to take a shot at it. I say we let them

Life was easier for Americans when other nations were the target of global hatred.

162 Posted by: DrewM. at June 22, 2010 10:33 AM (X/Lqh) But Bush was much more likely to listen to and respect what his Military Leaders said to him. Obama not so much, or actually not at all.

163 Posted by: DM! at June 22, 2010 10:26 AM (CQUOs)

barely relevant?  read taibbi's stuff on the banksters.

164

We can't win because we won't.

Oh no! I killed a goat! Your wife? So sorry.

165 I never understood why he kept saying we need to go into Pokestan....and increase our presence in Afghanistan.  His supporters all assumed we would be out of the war within weeks of his taking office.

166


Let the Northern Alliance control the country. Back them with arms and money as long as they fight the Taliban and Al Qaeda.


The NA is already trying to "share" power with the Taliban, in the middle of a fucking war.  There's no way to secure anything in Afghanistan. 

A military junta could hardly be worse that Barry and his band of merry pranksters.

167 Man, I heard about the Buyers Remorse after the election, but I never thought it would be this bad for me.

168 Zero's best strategy is to cut a deal with Al Qaeda, He will leave them alone so long as they confine their attacks to NYC and Europe. That might be a workable solution.

169 McChrystal should resign and go on tour with Rabbi Nesenoff.

"We had no idea ..."

170 Zero's best strategy is to cut a deal with Al Qaeda, He will leave them alone so long as they confine their attacks to NYC and Europe. That might be a workable solution. Posted by: maddogg at June 22, 2010 10:39 AM (OlN4e) But NY State went for Obama big time. Maybe he should give Al Qaeda a Red State?

171

Let the Northern Alliance control the country. Back them with arms and money as long as they fight the Taliban and Al Qaeda.


The NA is already trying to "share" power with the Taliban, in the middle of a fucking war.  There's no way to secure anything in Afghanistan. 

A military junta could hardly be worse that Barry and his band of merry pranksters.

The Northern Alliance is now, because they think the Taliban will win. Can you blame them?

Had we backed them in 2003 and let them run the country, however brutally, I would venture a guess that things would be different.

I've been advocating we go back to our Cold War stance, in the current Afghanistan conflict,  we install a pro western dictator and look the other way at what he has to do.  I know it isn't politically correct, but do we have any other options? Does anyone believe democracy will work in Afghanistan? Anyone?

172

But NY State went for Obama big time. Maybe he should give Al Qaeda a Red State?

Arizona?  Hahaha...

173

After the way RS bashed Zeppelin back in their heyday, McC should have known he'd be pilloried. 

He should have gone to Bob Guccione Jr at Spin magazine (or Bob Guccione Sr at Penthouse for a spread). 

174 But NY State went for Obama big time. Maybe he should give Al Qaeda a Red State? Arizona? Hahaha... Posted by: EC at June 22, 2010 10:41 AM (mAhn3) Obama has already promised Arizona to Mexico/Cuba

175 But NY State went for Obama big time. Maybe he should give Al Qaeda a Red State?

Posted by: nevergiveup at June 22, 2010 10:40 AM (0GFWk)

Nah, apparently Al Qaeda has a serious hard on for moonbats, nothing else will do.

176 I've been advocating we go back to our Cold War stance, in the current Afghanistan conflict,  we install a pro western dictator and look the other way at what he has to do.  I know it isn't politically correct, but do we have any other options?

That's the only thing muzzies understand.i

177 Look for beaucoup IED's and suicide bombers in the coming weeks.

178

Rolling Stone?

I guess the Village Voice wasn't available.

Posted by: TexasJew at June 22, 2010 09:50 AM (VnDuH)

No other media outlet -- except for marginal websites -- will touch anything even remotely critical of Osama Obama and his imbecilic "war" policy.

Despite my enormous respect for the military, I have to say it seems too many modern military leaders have been infected with the virus of politically inspired "limited war," or "police actions." We no longer have blood-and-guts generals who understand that wars are meant to be won, in the fastest and safest way possible. Or if we do have them -- as I hope we do -- they are muzzled by desk-bound drones at the Pentagon.

Yes, civilians must have the ultimate authority. But any civilian in that position needs to be a patriotic American, not a hate-filled, Third World-loving  racist Marxist who despises America's best, our fighting forces.

So slap McChrystal on the wrist, lightly, and get the Traitor-in-Chief and his band of cowards out of power.

That way, we all win.

179

The NA is already trying to "share" power with the Taliban, in the middle of a fucking war.  There's no way to secure anything in Afghanistan. 

That's what I'm saying. You can secure it, alright - but then what do you do with it? Other than "keep securing it", there ain't nobody to hand it over to.

180 here is a lot of uproar about Gen. Stanley’s McChrystal’s disrespectful comments about his civilian bosses in the Obama administration, and President Obama would be entirely justified in firing McChrystal for statements McChrystal and his subordinates made to Rolling Stone. Obama is a deeply flawed commander-in-chief who doesn’t want to be fighting a war on terror, but he is the commander-in-chief. He should have a general who will carry out his policies without public complaint until the voters can decide to change those policies. But the bigger problem with McChrystal’s leadership has always been the general’s devotion to unreasonably restrictive rules of engagement that are resulting in the unnecessary deaths of American and coalition forces. We have had many, many accounts of the rules endangering Americans, and the Rolling Stone article provides more evidence. In the story, a soldier at Combat Outpost JFM who had earlier met with McChrystal was killed in a house that American officers had asked permission to destroy. From the article: The night before the general is scheduled to visit Sgt. Arroyo’s platoon for the memorial, I arrive at Combat Outpost JFM to speak with the soldiers he had gone on patrol with. JFM is a small encampment, ringed by high blast walls and guard towers. Almost all of the soldiers here have been on repeated combat tours in both Iraq and Afghanistan, and have seen some of the worst fighting of both wars. But they are especially angered by Ingram’s death. His commanders had repeatedly requested permission to tear down the house where Ingram was killed, noting that it was often used as a combat position by the Taliban. But due to McChrystal’s new restrictions to avoid upsetting civilians, the request had been denied. “These were abandoned houses,” fumes Staff Sgt. Kennith Hicks. “Nobody was coming back to live in them.” One soldier shows me the list of new regulations the platoon was given. “Patrol only in areas that you are reasonably certain that you will not have to defend yourselves with lethal force,” the laminated card reads. For a soldier who has traveled halfway around the world to fight, that’s like telling a cop he should only patrol in areas where he knows he won’t have to make arrests. “Does that make any f–king sense?” Pfc. Jared Pautsch. “We should just drop a f–king bomb on this place. You sit and ask yourself: What are we doing here?”

181 What we should do, Mr. President, is foment a coup against Karzai and put in someone we can work with. President Kennedy did it in Viet Nam, and it worked out well.

Uh, Mr. President, it's spelled 'coup' but it's pronounced 'coo'. No problem, I knew that you knew that. Whats' our tee-off time? A little touch football first? No, gets your nice shorts all dirty? No problem.

182 What we should do, Mr. President, is foment a coup against Karzai and put in someone we can work with. President Kennedy did it in Viet Nam, and it worked out well. Posted by: The Ghost of Robert Kennedy at June 22, 2010 10:44 AM (2PTT7) Yeah that worked out real swell ha? Well for a Democrat, maybe so?

183 The administration will appear weak for not firing the General. It will kick Israel to feel better about itself.

184 I think we may have found a new chairman for Freddie and Frannie -- Staff Sgt. Kennith Hicks.

185 I be votings for Governor Obamama agans. He be makin me proyd of this cuntry. Thiss is be the furst times I be proud of my cuntry. Mishell Obmama  is be write whens she be sayin "it be the furst times I be proud of myy cuntry". Fore mores years four Governor Obamama !!!!

186

I've been advocating we go back to our Cold War stance, in the current Afghanistan conflict,  we install a pro western dictator and look the other way at what he has to do.  I know it isn't politically correct, but do we have any other options?

That's the only thing muzzies understand.i

I wouldn't go that far.

I honestly believe the people of Iraq and Iran can handle democracy, or republics. They are intellegent and modern people. Hell, Iranians thought they were getting a democracy after the Shah was deposed. They were ready for it in 1979. They are ready for it now.

However I do think there are some places in the world where democracy won't work, or at least won't work for a couple more centuries. Afghanistan and Burma come to mind.

 

Take Democracies, parliamentary or republics, where you can get them, install authoritarian dictators that are friendly to the west where you can't/

187

I've been advocating we go back to our Cold War stance, in the current Afghanistan conflict,  we install a pro western dictator and look the other way at what he has to do.

Posted by: Ben at June 22, 2010 10:40 AM (wuv1c)

I agree.  Whatever ends up ruling is going to be pretty brutal, anyway.  It would be nice if we could actually admit that fact and the arrogant leftists were forced to admit that their "universal values" are not universal, in any sense.  Life is not valued the same in all cultures and their personalities are very different from ours.  These people pray to friggin' rocks.

In any event, all threats from the arab/persian/muslim world start and stop with control of the gulf oil fields.  That is always the key in the background of these problems.

188 RFK's Ghost -- didn't Gibbsy already try that.

189 This dbag should have been let go the moment he published his ROE.

190

Dam, don't we ever learn..

The first Job of a soldier is to KILL the enemy, not win his heart like a dating service...

And the first rule of being a General is DON'T talk to the Press!

191 Lets just turn AStan over to a bunch of Australian mining concerns and their mercs; no questions asked as long as the lithium flows and the terrorists don't.

192

As admirable as some of the Neo-con goals were, democracy won't work everywhere. At least not yet. 

This isn't a perfect world. We need resign ourselves to the world as it is and do the best we can.

193 I honestly believe the people of Iraq and Iran can handle democracy, or republics.

They cannot so long as totalitarian islam is acceptable in their societies.

Islam is a sinkhole that will consume everything.  The only way to keep it in check is with a strong authoritarian counterbalance.

194 205,

Ford is dicontinuing the mercury, didn't you get the memo?

195 I mean, it worked out well up to 1968; things get a little hazy for me after that.

Hey, is that little fageleh Roy Cohn still around? What a crazy guy! Kept telling Joe McCarthy: 'You're punching down!! NEVER punch down!  Always punch UP!' Joe had no clue what the hell he was talking about.

196 Commander in chief?  Who's that?

197 But Bush was much more likely to listen to and respect what his Military Leaders said to him.
Posted by: nevergiveup at June 22, 2010 10:34 AM (0GFWk)

Actually, that's not true.

Remember, the Iraq 'surge', from strategy changes to the accompanying troop build up, were done against the advice of the Joint Chiefs of Staff.

A good bit of the strategy was formulated outside the Pentagon. Petraeus was not a popular guy with the top-top brass.

198 Pdunda and LaQuisha: That ignorant ebonics shit is not helpful and long past being funny. Cheap, easy, embarrassing to watch and, yeah, mostly racist. And something Ace has asked his guests to stop doing.

199

Crap.... you all shoulda heard the Carter Jokes we used to tell..

Or heck, the verbiage we used about Regean when we were pulled out of Beruit in 83... (no shitter... first time I heard we were getting relieved late, I was on LPH2 Iwo Jima, sitting in Repair 8, heard our relief was invading Grenada, and asked why the hell we were invading Spain... as it was the only Grenada I knew about...)

ANYTIME a political decision overrides what the military thinks it ought to do, there is going to be talk... especialy if there is beer around.

200 A good bit of the strategy was formulated outside the Pentagon. Petraeus was not a popular guy with the top-top brass. Posted by: DrewM. at June 22, 2010 10:52 AM (X/Lqh) I wasn't refering to the Joint Chiefs, but just competent voices in the Armed Forces. The Joint Chiefs are basically pencil pushes.

201 Nice nam grunt

202

 I honestly believe the people of Iraq and Iran can handle democracy, or republics.

They cannot so long as totalitarian islam is acceptable in their societies.

Islam is a sinkhole that will consume everything.  The only way to keep it in check is with a strong authoritarian counterbalance.

There are moderate and liberal muslims. Look at the people getting killed in Iranian protests. Women without burkhas, men dressed like trashy greased up Los Angelans.  There are a ton of muslims who just like american christians show up at church out of a sense of tradition, not a ferverant belief in Christ as Divine, or in their case Allah.

I do think certain middle eastern countries are ripe for democracy. They are kept stupid by dictators who use Islam and jew hatred as a political tool.

 

203 I continue to have complete faith in President Barack W. Obama.

204

You knew this was going to happen when Obama spent months last year dithering about Afganistan and then at his "war council" meetings the civilian side thought additional resources meant Peace Corp. types and foreign aid while the military thought it meant more troops. I think McChrystal requested 50,000 or 60,000 additional troops and only got 30,000.

The Kandahar invasion has been delayed until the fall because the previous invasion of some other city didn't have the desired results. They are supposedly analyzing the deficiencies. My guess is that things are a complete wreck in Afganistan. Obama's plan was to start withdrawal in July 2011 which means it is getting close to less than a year for remaining campaigns. I'm not sure if the entire "surge" of 30,000 has been sent yet. I am sure that military commanders aren't too enthused about putting our soldiers in danger only to have to pull them out before the mission is done due to some artificial timeline.

205 I love how McChrystal charges Eikenbery with issuing a CYA memo. That's probably true but how the hell is this set of interviews anything but the same?

What a fucking mess.

206 Maybe McCrystal said he voted for Obama because he thought that would make things easier, that Obama wouldn't assume he was hostlile.

207 the rolling stone PDF is down

208

Eff McChrystal, he's no different than Wes Clark, apparently.

Meanwhile, our guys are walking around the 'stan without rounds in the chamber.  Great.

209 Islam is a sinkhole that will consume everything.  The only way to keep it in check is with a strong authoritarian counterbalance.

Yep.  The best example of a modern islamic society, based on the Euro-style parliamentary system, is Turkey, which always needed the secular military to retain supreme power and which, after the EU forced them to change their Constitution to take that power away from the military (in order to be considered for membership in the EU that the EU never intended to offer - and rightfully so), Turkey has been on a dramatic fall into the islamist chasm.

And Turkey is the best anyone can reasonably hope for!

210 Everyone in the effin' world is mocking Obama, why not his General, too? Bad form on the General's part, but is anyone surprised? Maybe he wants out.

211 Drew - twitted that McChrystal saw the article before publication and did not object. So this is a calculated bayonet charge, hope he's got a better plan then Pickett. The little drop about voting for Obama seems like a bit of PR judo.

212

Second- Look- No great fan of Obama, but we have a military commanded by civillians. This sort of crap is unacceptable no matter who is President. If it was a kid out of ROTC his ass would probably be grass. No different for the General.

 

True dat!  I so agree.  And yes, Chrystal showed an appalling lack of judgment doing this interview with Rolling Stone.

213 Compare and contrast:

Time taken to react to the oil spill or floods in Tennessee, versus negative criticism printed in a stoner rag.

Priorities.  Got to luv em.

214 He's probably going to be fired, but as Churchill said, "You can always take one with you." He should be sure to give Obortion a butt-ripping he won't forget, and do it good and loud with lots of witnesses in the room, to make sure somebody will blab and we'll get the verbatim version when it leaks. Spoil his little narcissistic power trip and make sure the world hears your version first.

215 Admittedly I haven't read the entire comment thread, but:

Didn't the statists just jump with joy when military commanders trashed Bush?

Turnabout is fair play.

216

Oh, and if you read the article, the only one in the Administration who comes off well is Hillary who wants the military to be given what they need.

Hmm....

Hillary 2012!!111!!

217 Oil spill in the Gulf:  Obama responds by playing golf for 2 months.
Someone says something unflattering about Obama:  CRISIS!

218

After sacking McChrystal, Obama named Captain Crunch as head of military operations in Afghanistan at the suggestion of Vice President Biteme

219

I agree.  Whatever ends up ruling is going to be pretty brutal, anyway.  It would be nice if we could actually admit that fact and the arrogant leftists were forced to admit that their "universal values" are not universal, in any sense.  Life is not valued the same in all cultures and their personalities are very different from ours.  These people pray to friggin' rocks.

I can't pin everything on leftists when Bush and neocons use practically the same argument about exporting democracy.

220 No great fan of Obama, but we have a military commanded by civillians. This sort of crap is unacceptable no matter who is President. If it was a kid out of ROTC his ass would probably be grass. No different for the General.

 

Posted by: Andy The Squirrel at June 22, 2010 09:47 AM (xDozT)

If you look closely, you'll see that there is a 'No Retard' clause in the civilian command language, so we're alright here.

221

Gen. McChrystal and his minions said some things "on background" with a Rolling Stone reporter, who then obliged their unspoken request and ran with it.

Unspoken?  If there was an agreement it's on background, that's that, and it doesn't matter how juicy the story is.  That should cook that reporter's reputation permanently, and it will even chill the information other reporters are able to get from other sources about other stories.  I do so love the word "other."

222

Drew - twitted that McChrystal saw the article before publication and did not object. So this is a calculated bayonet charge

That's interesting. 

223

Oh, and if you read the article, the only one in the Administration who comes off well is Hillary who wants the military to be given what they need.

Posted by: runningrn at June 22, 2010 11:04 AM (CfmlF)

I think Biden's out, and Hillary's the VP in 2012.

224

News from the Homefront.

There will be no congressional budget this year.

Great.

 

225 Well Jimmah, you can die now. Go in peace.

226 (Oh, thank God.)

227

Drew - twitted that McChrystal saw the article before publication and did not object. So this is a calculated bayonet charge

That's interesting. 

hopefully McChrystal doesn't shout "allahu ackbar" before running into the meeting

228 I think Biden's out, and Hillary's the VP in 2012.

Huckabee's?

229 Hucleberry can't even host a pos TV show.

230 Posted by: Jean at June 22, 2010 11:03 AM (NvNaG)

Yeah. At least Adm. Fallon had the decency to jump when he saw what was in the Esquire piece.

I don't know what deep game McChrystal can be playing. I don't think he is, which means he's either an idiot for doing it on purpose or an idiot for doing it accidentally.

231 Drew - twitted that McChrystal saw the article before publication and did not object. So this is a calculated bayonet charge

I thought so 

232

Let's see, team.  We got the oil spill.  Now McChrystal.  What will we do next week to keep Obamacare out of the news? 

233
Huckabee's?

Grim jest indeed.

234 There are moderate and liberal muslims.

Keep telling yourself that.

Islam is a fucking cancer.  Modern western values like liberty are incompatible with their totalitarian belief system.

It doesn't matter how nice a face you want to put on it.  It doesn't matter that muslims have ten fingers and ten toes.  People are not all the same on the inside.

PoP, by the way, was dead right about Turkey.  The one thing I would add is that Kemal had a strongass pimp hand, and that is what it takes to make a muslim-majority country act right.

235

On Hillary. I think she has her sights set on 2016.

I think she assumes that whoever beats obama in 2012 will be a one term president.

If things stay as bad as they are, I think we might have quite a few one term presidents in a row, which would be rare for this country.

236
he's either an idiot for doing it on purpose or an idiot for doing it accidentally.


This.  Some guys are only good at getting promoted.  It's called "polishing the apple".

237

I can't pin everything on leftists when Bush and neocons use practically the same argument about exporting democracy.

Posted by: Prof. Venkman at June 22, 2010 11:05 AM (Bs34i)

I've said that Bush was on the left in that pursuit.  Bush talked about "Democracy" all the time and "Republic" never.  He also said that islam was a "religion of peace" (wrong on two accounts in three words!). 

The reason there was so much continuity from Bush to the Indonesian Imbecile on these fronts was because Bush had moved that far left.  Bush was really supposed to take care of Iran before he left office.  That was his big job, really.

Anyway, as bad as those policies were, The Precedent is looking to even intentionally fuck them up as much as he is able, which makes it all a real mess.  Wait until he starts attacking the military the way he's attacking Arizona, now ...

238

 244

Nah.  I think it's Huckabee/Swaggart for our team.

I think it will be Huckabee and that televangelist who turned out to be gay. You know. That one..

239 Oh, and if you read the article, the only one in the Administration who comes off well is Hillary who wants the military to be given what they need. The Clinton's keep popping up - Sestak deal, now this - seems they aren't content to just fade away.

240 Does anyone believe democracy will work in Afghanistan? Anyone?

~Ben

Considering the last two elections, I'll have to get back to you on whether or not I think it's working in the U.S...

241 Huckabee's?

Grim jest indeed.

Posted by: Dang Straights at June 22, 2010 11:10 AM (fx8sm)


But you gotta admit, they slaughter everyone else in the 'looks' department.  mmrowwwlllll!

242 Anyone know specifically what Eikenberry has done to piss off the general?

243   If there was an agreement it's on background, that's that, and it doesn't matter how juicy the story is.  That should cook that reporter's reputation permanently, and it will even chill the information other reporters are able to get from other sources about other stories.  I do so love the word "other."

Okay, then who is the RS douchebag?

244
Ben,

You serious about no budgets this year?

245

Ben,

You serious about no budgets this year?

on drudge. middle column, a couple stories down.

246

Wonderful.

I guess they'll give me a medal when they're done.

247 Anyone know specifically what Eikenberry has done to piss off the general? Getting State and DoD to agree on how to present the colors is hard, Eikenberry's mission and McChrystal's were not necessarily the same. It makes the Petarus/Crocker team all the more miraculous.

248 I don't think you can compare Vietnam to Afghanistan. The Allies allowed Vietnam to fall to the Communists true, but if you look at history the Domino Theory pretty much ended and very few countries turned communist (ie: India was under pressure). In Afghanistan if we were to pull out the Terrorists would go hog wild, have a base to operate from freely, and gain momentum for the Jihad. Pulling out in 2011 is bad policy also, McCrystal may be challeging Obama's timetable for a losing strategy? I am not sure whether Obama wants us to lose or not, but he cannot be trusted. Can we last to 2012...Has America become more addicted to our IPODS and forgot about what freedom truely means?

249 I'm on a deadline at work but I had to read this. Ace you're gonna get me fired.

McChrystal is a dead man walking. 
I have to question his judgement, not for the interview, voting for Obama.
You reap what you sow.

Let's be done with Afghanistan.  Bomb the shit out of it.

250
Ben,

Thanks.

Whoa!

If the dem house doesn't pass a budget this year, then flipping the House will hand the GOP the biggest damned prybar you've ever seen.  The GOP will be able to engineer a government shutdown almost as soon as they're seated.

251

Okay, then who is the RS douchebag?

Roland Stoner?

252 WE REGRET TO INFORM YOU THAT

THE CONGRESSIONAL BUDGET

PLANNED FOR FISCAL YEAR 2011 HAS BEEN CANCELLED DUE TO WASHINGTON DEMOCRATSÂ’ OUT-OF-CONTROL SPENDING SPREE.

AN APOLOGY FOR THIS BETRAYAL OF AMERICAN TAXPAYERS DOES NOT APPEAR TO BE FORTHCOMING AT THIS TIME.

BE ADVISED THAT THE FOLLOWING SERVICES WILL BE INTERRUPTED:"

via drudge

posted it in top headline comments didn't know you were talking about it here.....

Didn't the budget guru just quit?

253 Hillary wants the military to be able to nuke Afghanistan ??? Because that is the only way to "victory" over there. I also think it rather amusing that the "strict constitutionalists" think that a General should be in any way disrespectful to ANY POTUS

254 Another thing, where the hell is this generation's Curtis LeMay?
That man had titanium balls.

255 Ah, if only McChrystal's name were Shinseki, then he'd be lauded as a whistle-blowing hero!

256 More good news for the most ethical Administration in history. Man, zero is like, a world class fuck up. I can't think of anyone who is a bigger fuck up. He is breaking new ground!

257 Posted by: rdbrewer at June 22, 2010 11:13 AM (h86fF)

I just read something but can't find the leak.

Part of it is different opinion on strategies (Eikenberry isn't you're run of the mill Ambassador, he's a retired general who commanded the Afghanistan operation at one point....too many chiefs.).

Also, McChrystal is willing to work with Karzai and his brother as is. Eikenberry hammers them on crime and corruption. Their differing portfolios seemed to create problems for each other as those are not harmonious approaches/missions.

258

@266

The spambot speaks the truth

259

So, once we put the Peace Corpse in charge in Afghanistan, how many Paki nukes do you think $1 trillion or so in lithium will AQ buy?

260 ItÂ’s time for Americans to realize that war is hard work, and that a president general canÂ’t just wave a magic wand and fix everything.

261

Ah, if only McChrystal's name were Shinseki, then he'd be lauded as a whistle-blowing hero!

Heheh.  Yes, the letters "shinseki" have much juju.

262 Posted by: Ellie McChrystal Light at June 22, 2010 11:22 AM (2AwFA

I think they do.  A fox poll was posted, the responders overwhelmingly don't want the general fired.

263 re voting for Obama -- That would be a purely political move IMO. Absentee ballots lose confidentiality. I bet high ranking military officers either refrain from voting or vote the way they think the wind is blowing to butter up the new CiC. McChrystal chose butter up and he can live with fallout now IMO.

264 #267  Let's be done with Afghanistan.  Bomb the shit out of it.

Cut, jib, newsletter, mpfs.

265

Part of it is different opinion on strategies (Eikenberry isn't you're run of the mill Ambassador, he's a retired general who commanded the Afghanistan operation at one point....too many chiefs.).

Eikenberry probably wasn't convinced that his strategy was a failed one,  which resulted in him being replaced. McChrystal's success would have proven Eikenberry wrong.  it wouldn't suprise me if people were putting their egos above the safety of the US.

 

It would be like relieving McArthur, installing Matthew Ridgeway, and then letting McArthur oversee Ridgeway's work. It just would not have worked out. You need a clean break. If a strategy fails, clean house and let the next crew come in unincumbered by the old group.

266 I haven't heard much of those "lightworker" references lately. Wonder why? Mebbe they meant "lightweight worker"?

267 Ben, the spambots are getting smarter and smarter.  Pretty soon we wont be able to tell them from other commenters, and it'll just be a bunch of spambots yapping at each other all the time and, eventually, writing presidential speeches and running the country.

268 Has America become more addicted to our IPODS and forgot about what freedom truely means Maybe a fatwa on Apple would wake them up.

269 Beck is doing it again this morning.  Making fun of the latest AQ tape...

270 I think Eikenberry complained to Obama that the military wasn't supporting the State Department enough in Afganistan. Also Eikenberry was one of the driving forces behind the accusation that Karzi stole the Afgan Presidential election. That didn't do McChrystal any favors.

271

Per Reuters

Karzai Backs McChrystal.

Things just got a little more interesting.

272

Another thing, where the hell is this generation's Curtis LeMay?
That man had titanium balls.

Became a banked pilot in 1994...and decided to go fly for Southwest. 

273 Beck just took a cheap shot at Catholics saying "he pictures Nanny with the rosary beads saying sweet baby Jesus"

274

General McChrystal commands men.

President Obama commands sycophants.

In this battle I award the General +1.

 

275

Has America become more addicted to our IPODS and forgot about what freedom truely means Maybe a fatwa on Apple would wake them up.

Need to fix a failed narco-terrorist state? We've got an App for that.

276 Thanks to Tappers twit -- the article is up: http://tinyurl.com/2bzt3j2

277

 Obama:  "How dare you say those things about me?!"

McChrystal: "It was the only way I could get a face-to-face meeting."

 

Heh! Heh!

278

>> Truman was wrong on MacArthur.

No he wasn't. MacArthur set himself up as the US military and political leader of Asia-Pacific. He stepped on his dick multiple times trying to drag Chang and his Nationalists back into a war, and he either totally misread or outright ignored intel about 300,000 Chinese regulars moving south of the Yalu River, which cost thousands of our boys lives, and damned near got them driven off the Korean Peninsula.

Mac had it coming.

279 OT  - seventh-graders find the alien oxygen machine on Mars, so we'd better get our asses there!

7th-Graders Discover Mysterious Cave on Mars

280 I think Obama has to fire him at this point.  We can all joke about how ironic it is that the ass Obama has found to kick is a top general, but the fact of the matter is that if they do not have a good working relationship (which clearly they don't) the subordinate is the one who has to go, not the "boss."  So even irrespective of the inadvisability of the general's comments (over which there seems to be widespread agreement in the milblogs that they should not have been made publicly), McChrystal needs to go simply because he cannot work effectively with the CiC. 

Now what possessed McChrystal to vote for Obama in the first place is a whole other mystery.  But I think it's telling that Obama decided to appoint him, I suppose thinking the general was a complete sycophant, and then failed to invest in a real working relationship with McChrystal once he was in place. 

281 Didn't the budget guru just quit?

Orszag was OMB director.  He was on the executive branch side.

The linked article said that the problem in the house is that the democrat side is fragmented and Hoyer cannot keep them together.

If the GOP in the current congress can keep any FY2011 continuing resolutions to short enough windows, then a GOP takeover seated in January won't have to wait until fall to get leverage over the White House with the FY2012 budget.

282 The Runaway General -- Stanley McChrystal, Obama's top commander in Afghanistan, has seized control of the war by never taking his eye off the real enemy: The wimps in the White House Regardless of whats in the article, the headline has to hurt

283 No president since WWII has properly prosecuted a war. In fact, FDR was going wobbly toward the end of that conflict, losing sight of what "victory" really means in favor of making nice with his buddy Stalin. Putting political considerations ahead of American lives and safety and any consideration of "nation-building" are the sorts of touchy-feely BS that need to be stopped well before they reach presidential level.

From Truman in Korea through the Bushes in Iraq, from Clinton in Somalia to Osama Obama everywhere, the notion that "we can't win because people will be critical of us" has taken over our military policies. No surprise that, after so many years and administrations, the top brass at the Pentagon have become converts to the hacky-sack doctrine of war-fighting.

The primary -- maybe only -- function of our military is to do what is good for the USA. How can they do that when civilian authority is addicted to the suicidal doctrine of "making nice?"

The UCMJ rules regarding the civilian authority were devised at a time when our leaders were patriotic Americans. If we are going to continue with traitors, appeasers and do-gooders who sing "We Are the World" when they should be issuing orders to defend America, perhaps that needs re-thinking.

Afghanistan is not worth a single American life. Neither, for that matter, is Iraq. They have not been worth our blood and treasure from Day One. At the heart of our presence there are the kinds of petty diplomatic considerations that have made our current leaders look like the wimps they are.

Defend America! And, when it's time to take up arms to secure the safety of our own people, do so without regard for the other side's woes.

Leave the semi-civilized hordes in the Middle East to their own devices unless they pose a threat to us, as a nuclear Iran does. When talk fails, turn them into toxic waste dumps. And then bring our military home.

284 The Fox poll:  "What Should Happen to Gen. McChrystal?"
82% appear to be backing McChrystal.

285

From Reuters:  (Karzai backing McChrystal)

“The President strongly supports General McChrystal and his strategy in Afghanistan and believes he is the best commander the United States has sent to Afghanistan over the last nine years,” said Waheed Omer.

286 Impeach Obama already... sheesh

287
Go read this article over at Free Range, it's a good display of why working with Karzai is impossible. 

288 Not a good situation at all.  I wouldn't have liked this if he had done it to Bush.  Also this reporter sucks if it was off the record.  McChrystal should probably retire at point, seems the best of all outcomes.

@222 - those pictures are fascinating.

OT:  McCullough does a total takedown of Prez Oilspill
http://tiny.cc/yi5zu

289

Wonderful.

I guess they'll give me a medal when they're done

Poor chicken.

290 Dave in Texas at June 22, 2010 11:28 AM (WvXvd)

Both men were wrong. Dugout Doug set himself up as an omnipotent Oriental warlord and Truman was too rooted in the FDR/Democrat ideal of worrying about pissing off the enemy to act like a C-in-C.

291

Britain raised VAT to 20%.

How else does a nation deal with budget shortfalls, decreased revenues and a bad economy?

Raise taxes of course. You can't cut spending. You just can't.

When I look at England I see our future.

292 Maybe those rules of engagement are mac's not bo's?

293

Good news. Millionaires tax fails in New Jersey.

Chris Christie stops terrible legislation with his mind.

294

Way back up @39: I think I'm thinking the same unsaid thought that you are thinking.

This wasn't done in error -- I have a hunch the interview was very calculated on the general's part. 

Meanwhile, hey rah great...I've got a kid scheduled to go to Astan fairly soon, and this administration is making a soup sandwich out of it even more than it was.  You know, I worried when my kid was in Iraq, but I have never worried as much as now...because now...I better not say anymore, or I'll be charged.

295 Ouch -- "It's not going to look like a win, smell like a win or taste like a win," says Maj. Gen. Bill Mayville, who serves as chief of operations for McChrystal. "This is going to end in an argument."

296 237, this is Rolling Stone we're talking about. For years they fed on fake stories by Hunter Thompson (may he RIP) sold as "truth." Wenner (the owner) is a heavy heavy contributer to the DNC. They barely even pretend they're not an organ of the far-left. They even have a shoddy track record of panning albums and then adding them to best of lists when they prove popular, changing reviews, etc., etc. etc.. You really think they give two sh*ts about traditional journalist ethics? The fault here lies totally on McChrystal who showed an astonishingly stupid error in judgement. What good could have ever come out of an interview with Rolling Stone?! There was no chance they'd leave anything off the record. There was little to no chance they'd paint him in a positive light. I'd love to know just what he was thinking when he agreed to it.

297 Orszag was OMB director.  He was on the executive branch side.

Posted by: MikeO at June 22, 2010 11:30 AM (lBmZl)

And all of the reports keep portraying him as a "cabinet member".  OMB isn't part of the cabinet.  I can't figure out what these people are thinking.  Am I the only one who thought this was really weird?

298 The Chicken shall be awarded The Order Of The Feathered Donut Hole....posthumously, of course.

299 Let's be done with Afghanistan.  Bomb the shit out of it.


Well, to be honest, that was my initial response...

300
My latest fantasy:  President Chris Christie, CiC.  Imagine the awesomeness.

301 Posted by: progressoverpeace at June 22, 2010 11:37 AM (Qp4DT)

did you see the letter firing the budget that I posted upthread?

302 Sorry if this has been said. I am late to the thread. Regrettably, Gen. McChrystal should be fired or tender his resignation. What he said or allowed his subordinates to say was insubordination. I wish Gen. McChrystal had resigned and then given this interview. It would certainly have had more weight. Now the narrative is that Obama has "summoned" his Af-Pak commander to the White House to be dressed down or fired thus giving Obama the upper hand. Should Obama not fire Gen. McChrystal, the White House PR machine can spin this as Obama being magnanimous, "See, he really does care about the troops. Stanley was just stressed, like all troops in the war zone. We must be understanding."

This is like the Joe Barton dust up in that the truth, on which most agree, was spoken but not without some unforced error on the part of the truth teller.

303 Politico reporting that RS's editor says the article was okayed by McChrystal before publishing during routine fact check/run through btw.

304 nother thing, where the hell is this generation's Curtis LeMay? That man had titanium balls. Posted by: mpfs at June 22, 2010 11:20 AM (iYbLN) He took a few to many PC touchy feely course in the Military? He complained about that Muslim shrink and got shit canned? The list goes on and on

305 Why did McCrystal state that he voted for Obama?  High ranking military officers should not express whom they voted for, it should be private. I beleive McCrystal was unprofessional in professing that he voted for Obama..... Not anyone's concern....

306

^{"The night before the general is scheduled to visit Sgt. ArroyoÂ’s  platoon for the memorial, I arrive at Combat Outpost JFM to speak with the soldiers he had gone on patrol with. JFM is a small encampment, ringed by high blast walls and guard towers. Almost all of the soldiers here have been on repeated combat tours in both Iraq and Afghanistan, and have seen some of the worst fighting of both wars. But they are especially angered by IngramÂ’s death. His commanders had repeatedly requested permission to tear down the house where Ingram was killed, noting that it was often used as a combat position by the Taliban. But due to McChrystalÂ’s new restrictions to avoid upsetting civilians, the request had been denied. “These were abandoned houses,” fumes Staff Sgt. Kennith Hicks. “Nobody was coming back to live in them.”}

^{One soldier shows me the list of new regulations the platoon was given. “Patrol only in areas that you are reasonably certain that you will not have to defend yourselves with lethal force,” the laminated card reads. For a soldier who has traveled halfway around the world to fight, thatÂ’s like telling a cop he should only patrol in areas where he knows he wonÂ’t have to make arrests. “Does that make any f–king sense?” Pfc. Jared Pautsch. “We should just drop a f–king bomb on this place. You sit and ask yourself:  What are we doing here?”}

307 O/T  Beck is being the funny Beck of old today.  I laughed so hard a while ago I had tears.  And lordy, we sure could use a good laugh in the Age of Obama.

308

The Kandahar invasion has been delayed until the fall because the previous invasion of some other city didn't have the desired results. They are supposedly analyzing the deficiencies.

Boy, I'd love to be the guy with that job.  "So, can you tell us where the deficiences were in our strategy?" Yes, Einstien, I can.  Announcing where and when your going to attack well in advance and then giving the enemy plenty of time to prepare is stupidity of the highest order.  Announcing you're pulling out on a specific date regardless of circumstance is even worse. 

It's a pretty simple equation really.  The people of Afghanistan fully expect us to pull out and leave them to their own devices, and soon.  Sad thing is every indication is they're probably right in this belief.

As a result nothing we do, short of the absolute and total destruction of the Taliban and Al Queda, will have any effect whatsoever.   The Afghans aren't going to fight against the Taliban in anything more than a token fashion because they know the moment we pull out, the Taliban will come back and they'll have to answer to them.  Not like we can blame your average Afghan for that, it's the reality of their existence.

So for now they'll go through the motions till we cut and run, then Afghanistan will go back to the Taliban and become a breeding ground for terrorism that's probably going to be 20 times worse than it was before we invaded.

Well if Obama ever does write another book he could always entitle it "How to lose a War in less than 2 years".

 

 

309

I've said it before... and go pummeled for it on a couple of sites... but...

The US Military should NOT be in the Nation Building business, it should be in the Nation PUNISHMENT business.

Whether its a light spanking by taking out strategic assets by air power... or the total destruction of a Nations infrastructure via invansion... we should be doing the damage, then leave.

America needs to be FEARED and RESPECTED... now we are neither.

310

Personally, I don't give a wet shit about any "insubordination" that occured.  I care about only one thing:

Winning the war.

If firing MacCrystal advances that effort, then fire him.  If keeping him means we have the best General in command, then keep him.

If Obama has to swallow his pride to do so, then suck it up Mr. President.  Yeah, that stinging sensation is your pride.  FUCK PRIDE!  This war in Afghanistan is bigger than than any one individual.  But if firing MacCrystal advances the war effort, then fire him ASAP, and to hell with whatever the political fallout may be.

 

I am reminded of a story from the Civil War.  Somebody told President Lincoln that he should fire General Grant, because he was drinking whiskey and getting drunk.

Lincoln responded, "I can't spare this man.  He fights."

311 If McChrystal voted for Obama, he should be court-marshalled for stupidity.

312 I don't think Obama has the BALLS to fire McCrystal. He will weasel out of this by spinning some BS statement and the press will lap it up. Obama may hate the Bush wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, but he does not want to go down in history as the one whom lost the war on terrorism.

313 I am reminded of a story from the Civil War. Somebody told President Lincoln that he should fire General Grant, because he was drinking whiskey and getting drunk. Lincoln responded, "I can't spare this man. He fights." Posted by: Ed at June 22, 2010 11:44 AM (urR3l) And your point? You not seriously comparing Nobama to Lincoln?

314 Well you guys have mentioned the new rules of engagement here.  they are sort of tieing the hands of the military.  If the comments from the article are true, from the washington examiner, then maybe BO heard you guys cause it seems that the rules of engagement appear to belong to mac.

315 Rush will be on this like a horny newlywed man.

316 McChrystal's problem is the interview was in Rolling Stone. Next to High Times and Socialist Worker Review, it's the most popular magazine in the WH Barber Shop. He should have been interviewed by Military Times, that way no one in the WH would know what he said.

317 "333 Rush will be on this like a horny newlywed man.

Posted by: Profit at June 22, 2010 11:47 AM (gbCNS)"

But he is a Horny newly wed man....

318
Michael Yon (another must-read like free range int'l), has been calling out McChrystal for a while now. 

If guys like this are calling bullshit, and things in Afghanistan keep deterioriating like they are, and our troops aren't allowed to shoot back...

319 If firing MacCrystal advances that effort, then fire him.  If keeping him means we have the best General in command, then keep him.

I think the problem is that at the level McChrystal is he has to be able to communicate effectively with the CiC.  It really doesn't matter how good he is on the field if he is not effective at interfacing with the civilian leadership. 

I suppose they could demote him to a position where he is reporting to another general, but I just don't see how he can stay in his current role. 

320 Asking Obama either to suck it up or to sack up is an exercise in futility.  This metrosexual can't fight anybody who didn't come from a faculty lounge.

321 As far as I know, there is no evidence that Grant EVER commanded troops while under the influence of alcohol. That was slander from his enemies.

322 Who made the rules of engagement that appear to be hampering the troops?  Was it mac or bo?

323

318
My latest fantasy:  President Chris Christie, CiC.  Imagine the awesomeness.

Mine, too. 

Costarring:

Paul Ryan as VP

John Bolton - S of S

Dale Peterson - Defense

Mitt Romney - Treasury or Commerce

Jeff Sessions - AG

Rudy Guiliani - Homeland Security

Sarah Palin -  Energy

Michele Bachmann - Speaker of the House

Jim DeMint - Senate Majority Leader

Ann Coulter - Press Sec

 

What a lineup!  Yeah, it's a real fantasy.  But nothing wrong with dreaming. 

324 then maybe BO heard you guys cause it seems that the rules of engagement appear to belong to mac Curious-- Michael Yon has been on McChrystal's case over this for months. I don't know that it's McChrystal's doing per se, but Yon seems to think so.

325 320

The General should have resigned, it was his duty to do so if he so disagreed with the civilian leadership....then he could go to the press.

Nothing like Barton who had a duty to alert Americans to the political shakedown during a hearing with the object of that shakedown.

Neither one of them should have apologized.

326 And your point? You not seriously comparing Nobama to Lincoln?

Posted by: nevergiveup at June 22, 2010 11:46 AM (0GFWk)

My point is that it didn't matter what Grant was or was not drinking.  He was the General who would fight, and that meant he was irreplaceable.

Re-read my original comment.  I don't give a shit about whose feelings get hurt over this, as long as the war effort isn't hurt.  If that means Obama has his feeling hurt, so be it.  If that means MacCrystal has to get fired, so be it.

If MacCrystal is our Grant for Afghanistan, then he is irreplaceable.  If he is our General McClelland, then fire him.

327 did you see the letter firing the budget that I posted upthread?

Posted by: curious at June 22, 2010 11:39 AM (p302b)

I think Boehner is going to have to make himself apologize for that.

328 Posted by: Marybeth at June 22, 2010 11:50 AM (hBRoa)

wow....just wow

329 Marybeth @ 318

High five!

330 @342

Yeah, but Yon seems to have really jumped the shark based on what I've seen at Blackfive and elsewhere.  He may not like McChrystal because the general was criticizing Obama and not for the reasons you might hope/think. 

331 If MacCrystal is our Grant for Afghanistan, then he is irreplaceable. If he is our General McClelland, then fire him. Posted by: Ed at June 22, 2010 11:51 AM (urR3l) I believe he will resign

332 Marybeth, that's the finest list I've seen in a very long time!

333 Posted by: progressoverpeace at June 22, 2010 11:51 AM (Qp4DT)\
'nah, he'll ask Barton to do it....he has practice....

334 I agree... Gen Grant didn't give a crap about the rule book, paperwork, perfect planning, or regulations. He pointed his soldiers toward the enemy and crushed them. That is why Lincoln appointed Grant and dismissed McClellan. Obama who is a process type of guy and does not think through decisions logically nor does not he have the Gonads to make such a command decision. Obama may order Mullen to fire him and say that the decision was not influenced by the POTUS just Obama said Senator Kyl lied about the oil drilling stoppage fiasco.

335

I am reminded of a story from the Civil War.  Somebody told President Lincoln that he should fire General Grant, because he was drinking whiskey and getting drunk.

Lincoln responded, "I can't spare this man.  He fights."

Posted by: Ed at June 22, 2010 11:44 AM (urR3l)

On another occasion, a big shot radical Republican congressman was hounding Lincoln to fire McClellan for lack of intestinal fortitude.  Lincoln asked who who he should appoint to replace McClennan.  The congressman answered,  "Anybody!" Lincoln responded that "anybody" was alright for congress be he needed "somebody." 

(Lincoln eventually fired McClellan replacing him with Pope.  Pope did so badly that Lincoln fired him and reappointed McClellan.  McClellan continued to do so poorly that Lincoln again fired him and replaced him with Burnside despite Burnside's frank (and all to accurate) assessment of himself as not up to the job.  Burnside was fired and replaced by Hooker.  Hooker was replaced by Meade.  Finally Lincoln promoted Grant over Meade and Lincoln found his huckleberry.

336 I hope the teleprompter breaks.

Posted by: dfbaskwill at June 22, 2010 09:33 AM (usjNq)

+1

337
Marybeth, your list is awesome.  And the icing on the cake is Ann Coulter as press secretary.  Heh.  The press room would be blood-splattered from the lib media heads exploding.  Happy sigh.

338

Walrus,

don't forget that Mclellen ran against lincoln in 1864 as a Copperhead.

339

 Finally Lincoln promoted Grant over Meade and Lincoln found his huckleberry.

Lee knew Grant, and knew they (the Confederate army) would be in for it with him in charge.

340

The difference between Islam and Christianity is Christianity pioneered the concept of seperation of church and state, spiritual and  secular.

Christianity says 'give unto Caesar what is Caesar's' and 'my kingdom is in heaven'. That 'the laws are made for man' and not vice versa, and that no one is perfect and all is pardonable.

Islam is highly politicized and even authoritarian. It proscribes - as religous tenants - the methods by which you perform all manner of activities, from going to the bathroom to getting a business loan to structuring the state.

For that reason Islam is very difficult to rectify with anything other than authoritarian Islamic governments. There is no seperation.

I don't know what those crazy Hebe sectists deal was, but they really layed the groundwork for something new in religion (not unlike Judaism itself was, in some other ways).

Islam, despite coming 600 years later, followed the norm rather than the new alternative. Religions were formed to morally justify power structures, create structures of authority. They were inherantly political. You do what the chief tells you to do, not just because he's the chief and he'll smack you with a sharp sword if you don't - that is useful but has limits, but because he's ordained by the gods (who have made him strongest with the sword for a reason) and it is right to follow him. These religions were expressly political and organizational. There was 'law', there was no distinction betweel religious or moral law and political law, it was all the same.

Jesus of Nazareth was unique (occident to India, at least) in being some kind of trascendental drifter, a philosophical hobo, wandering around espousing an entirely personal philosphy with no claim to authority over the world to anything actually in the world.

Trying to seperate Islam from the government of muslims is like trying to seperate Catholicism from the Roman Catholic Church and the Vatican.

341 What I want to know is did General McChrystal order that Code Red?

342 Gen Grant didn't give a crap about the rule book, paperwork, perfect planning, or regulations. He pointed his soldiers toward the enemy and crushed them.

Grant's primary asset as a commanding officer was that he was willing to inflict and to sustain casualties.  Grant sustained just as many casualties in the Wilderness as Hooker had at Chancellorsville but the difference was that Grant was willing to keep on going forward while Hooker retreated.

343 Your God Damn right I ordered the Code Red on Obama and I would do it again !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

344 Hey there's a new thread up, forget this, Ace wants to talks "kurds"

345

Walrus,

don't forget that Mclellen ran against lincoln in 1864 as a Copperhead.

Posted by: Ben at June 22, 2010 11:56 AM (wuv1c)

Right.  As a peace Democrat who was more than willing to allow slavery to continue.

346
not for the reasons you might hope/think. 

Doubt it.

347

Bammy has as many merit badges on his MaoScouts

uniform as General Mac has medals on his......guess

it's a toss-up.

348

Andy the Squirrel at #35

 

Thanks for getting on the firing line before me...Everyone reloadiing right about now? OK, good.

I agree 100% with Andy. Commander in Chief is just that. I don't like a lot of things ours is doing right now, but a commander in the military has NO business saying anyhting of the sort to anyone; reporter or otherwise where it may be made public. His job is to say, "Yes Sir !", and "Thank you Sir, may I have another". And he'd better like doing it.

Government or not, he can quit his job if his duties do not suit him.

I was plenty tired of all of the shit-talking when GW was CiC. All I asked for then was a little respect for the man/the office.

I sure don't like who we have now, but dammit, he's the President of the United Staes and that demands some respect. Especially on the World Stage.

349 no whey...just the kurd

350 OT:

It's come to this.

From the UK Telegragh.  Holland using, wait for it, DECOY JOOOS.

http://tinyurl.com/decoyjews

351

356
And the icing on the cake is Ann Coulter as press secretary.  Heh.  The press room would be blood-splattered from the lib media heads exploding. 

Heck, liberal heads all over the country would explode.  It'd be a freakin' awesome sight to behold. 

352 news saying the barnikit school in south jersey on lockdown after receiving a threat.

353 McChrystal is on an 18 hour plane trip.  It must drive everyone nuts that this could not have been discussed before he got on the plane.  Would be too funny if a fed ex with mcchrystals resignation arrived before he did.

354 Posted by: Jim Jones at June 22, 2010 11:53 AM (SZy+Y)

Yeah, and Grant also won a lot of battles. That'll buy you some mulligans.

More to the point, Grant may not have like politicians (though he had a patron in Congressman Washburne) he never, ever publicly disrespected the President.

No President would put up with this.

355 Boy, a lot of really really smart People of Stupid coming to regret their choice to vote for and/or work with Obama lately.

356

Gen Mac:  Barry I only drink bottled water and pure grain alcohol. Tap water contains Flouridated water. Everyone knows that flouidation is a islamist plot to rob us of our precious bodily fluids?

Obama:  Ah General so you recommend we floridate their water in order to win this war????

357 The worst part of the story...the general meeting with troops in the field who seem to want to buy into his COIN tactics but can't seem to because they don't see the payoff.

I get these guys don't see the big picture but their experience should be chilling to anyone reading it. Lots of stuff looks good on paper and in a briefing but what happens where the rubber meets the road?

358

    If they want to throw the book:

Sec. 888. Art. 88. Contempt toward officials

-STATUTE-
      Any commissioned officer who uses contemptuous words against the
    President, the Vice President, Congress, the Secretary of Defense,
    the Secretary of a military department, the Secretary of Homeland
    Security, or the Governor or legislature of any State,
    Commonwealth, or possession in which he is on duty or present shall
    be punished as a court-martial may direct.

359 I disagree on the comment that a lot of smart people voted for Obama and now regret it. These people voted with their feelings and not logic. A smart person does not vote with their feelings and to feel good about voting for the black guy. There are consequences and know we know what they are !

360 Saw this the other day and thought it was just odd, maybe there is a connection to this.

361

380 - The article also mentions how 'Team America' was sick of people like Kerry and McCain coming over and acting like they give a shit.  Definitely could of been more of a vote against McCain.

362 Gonna buy five copies for my mother!

363 McChrystal is an extraordinarily brave man. Rolling Stone reminds us of this:

He went out on dozens of night-time raids during his time in Iraq, unprecedented for a top commander, and turned up on missions unannounced, with almost no entourage. "The f—-ing lads love Stan McChrystal," says a British officer who serves in Kabul. "You'd be out in Somewhere, Iraq, and someone would take a knee beside you, and a corporal would be like 'Who the f—- is that?' And it's f—-ing Stan McChrystal."

364 Does anyone think that McChrystal wants to get fired? I worry about that, because that would mean he's decided that Afghanistan can't be won and he wants to preserve the fiction that he might have won it if not for the interference of his political bosses.

365 Not that I was important in any way shape or form, but what kind of dumbass starts mouthing of to a reporter/journalist about anything?  It we added a "13th" general order to our platoon while in country:  "Though shall not talk to any press"
Anonymous, off the record, or otherwise, they will only try to use the information to make you and the mission look bad.

366

I've fallen on my sword for the troop's and country's sake.

Psst. I didn't really vote for that Thing in Chief.

 

367 @383:  So is this now our Song of the Day?

368 Clearly, the most important thing, what everyone should focus on like a laser, is making sure that Obama's massive ego suffers no setbacks. 

369

McChrystal voted for Obama?  How do we know that?

It's not a General's place to make that information known publically.  He has to lead a group of people with a wide range of political views.  What good does it do him or anyone else to let them know that you voted for a complete imbecile?  What does this say about your own character?

Then when you start criticizing the guy?  That's just wrong.

I say we fire McLellan... I mean "McChrystal..."

370 Does anyone think that McChrystal wants to get fired?

Yes.

I haven't seen anyone mention MG John K. Singlaub's dismissal.  That happened in March of 1977. 

Carter had just taken office, and a young Stanley McChrystal was a young Second Lieutenant of Infantry less than a year out of West Point.  If the dates in his wikipedia bio is right, then he had yet to take his first platoon leader job.

There is no way that Singlaub's dismissal did not make a lasting impression.

371 If the General is falling on his sword...then why did he apologize? 

Either resign, and then go to the press.

Or put up a fuss in the press, get your side out there, let the American people know what is happening in our civilian leadership....and knowingly risk a public firing.

Then don't apologize for it.

It sounds like he is flying by the seat of his pants, and his judgement is off.

If his judgment is off, he should not be there.

372 Who cares about McChrystal...he drank the Obama koolaid even admitting to have voted for him, he deserves to be fired by Obama.  Good Riddance!

373 318  Marybeth...I could kiss you!

374 An Obama voter is running the war, no wonder we are losing.

375 My thoughts are McChrystal thinks he can't win it by 'playing nice' with the Taliban, has heard a shitload of complaints from the troops about rules of engagement, and has decided to fall on his sword in a somewhat cowardly fashion.

Posted by: Upscale Community Organizing Thought Criminal at June 22, 2010 12:48 PM (IhHdM)

But, McChrystal was instrumental in designing those ROE and he supported them.  He's a "hearts and minds" devotee.

376 MikeO - I had forgotten how stupid Carter was

377

McChrystal and Petraeus are both big supporters of these insane ROEs. 

Posted by: progressoverpeace at June 22, 2010 09:55 AM (Qp4DT)

Really?  Petraeus never had these insane rules under Bush.  Theater-wide ROEs are explicitly approved by the White House.  These rules coincidentally came about after Obama's long think-tank review of Afghanistan.

378 I have a question, I know up thread they talk about insubordination etc military should never. I understand the reasoning for this and the chaos that occurs if these rules are not in place. But when do the rules not apply. What I mean is maybe Obama is counting on these rules that the military have. I mean the military are not supposed to be lemmings, don't we alway abide by lead follow or get out of the way? Hasn't Obama proven he is enemy of the people? I don't blame him for the oil spill but I do blame him for not doing anything whatsoever to allow the oil to reach shore and now we are finding out knowingly. Hasn't the Gen earned that maybe we should listen to him?

379

Posted by: theCork at June 22, 2010 12:54 PM (zL5Q1)

Read the story (or anyone of a number of stories), McChrystal supports the ROEs. Now there's some question as to whether they get over lawyered on the way down the chain of command but...

-If they don't reflect McChyrstal's orders he's responsible for fixing it

or

-If the White House ordered ROEs he, as commanding general, thinks hurt the mission/endanger troops, he needs to resign publicly and say way. 

Let's not pretend everything we don't like is a nefarious Obama plot.

380 COIN is not "hearts and minds". Theater-wide RoE are stupid and go against everything that has made the Western way of war successful. Trust your sergeants, teach them COIN and let them implement it as determined by local conditions. Afghanistan is not homogeneous - the rules shouldn't be either. There are several areas that need the old fashioned boot to the neck.

381 The way to win in Afghanistan was to get the tribal warlords to do the work for us in keeping terrorists out of there, in exchange for us not vaporizing their tribe.

382 By the way, folks, remember Joe Barton?  Yeah, the oxygen just got sucked out of THAT story in a major way today.  Thank Rolling Stone and Stan McChrystal!

383 But when do the rules not apply. What I mean is maybe Obama is counting on these rules that the military have. I mean the military are not supposed to be lemmings, don't we alway abide by lead follow or get out of the way?
Posted by: lions at June 22, 2010 12:57 PM (P+/LF)

Sure, he and any other general is free to throw his stars on the table at anytime and walk up to Congress and/or the nearest microphone to tell us why.

Until such time, the rules apply.

384 Gibbs is sounding like the Grim fucking Reaper here.  Making it DEADLY clear that Obama is this close (maybe already decided) to chop off McChrystal's head.  Can't say I blame him.

As I said, I think Obama admin is nothing but blunderers from top to bottom.  But this situation makes me sympathize with them.  I actually like the way Gibbs is handling this.  Again, I cannot believe I'm writing that.

385 Has he said that he supports the ROE directly or is this something Gray Lady printing. I just have a hard time beleiving a special forces military combat Gen would support those rules if not ordered by the Prez.

386 Posted by: Jeff B. at June 22, 2010 01:03 PM (l1KFP)

I'm glad Gibbs is at least pretending to be a grown up (so far). The temptation to snark back must be great but it would be horrible at this moment.

387 Posted by: lions at June 22, 2010 01:04 PM (P+/LF)

Read the Rolling Stone article. Towards the end there's a meeting between the general and some troops in the field. The troops complain about the ROEs and McChrystal defends them.

If he's lying to his troops (and I don't think he is) he should go for that alone.

388 Hope he gets a good PowerPoint together.

389 I'm glad Gibbs is at least pretending to be a grown up (so far). The temptation to snark back must be great but it would be horrible at this moment.

He had one moment of bitter, blunt snark that I actually thought was perfectly placed.  When Tapper read back that quote to him about how McChrystal was bitching about how Obama was 'distracted' in their first meeting, Gibbs curtly and humorlessly said "he has his undivided attention right now."

390 Gibbels just said that The Precedent was "upset ... angry ... about the article".  Oooooh.  Scary.

It would be nice if the military would stick to the rules on one of the eligibility cases and let everything be hashed out in that area.  But, noooo.  The Precedent would be "upset ... angry".

391 Do not taunt Happy Fun 0-bama-ball.

392

When Tapper read back that quote to him about how McChrystal was bitching about how Obama was 'distracted' in their first meeting, Gibbs curtly and humorlessly said "he has his undivided attention right now"


What does a clown have to do to get some love around here?

393

One soldier shows me the list of new regulations the platoon was given. “Patrol only in areas that you are reasonably certain that you will not have to defend yourselves with lethal force,” the laminated card reads. For a soldier who has traveled halfway around the world to fight, thatÂ’s like telling a cop he should only patrol in areas where he knows he wonÂ’t have to make arrests. “Does that make any f–king sense?” Pfc. Jared Pautsch. “We should just drop a f–king bomb on this place. You sit and ask yourself:  What are we doing here?”

You don't win battles, let alone wars, with these kind of ROE's.

394 Brit Hume is on with Megyn Kelly right now and he is laying down the law.  Absolutely eviscerating McChrystal, and making the point that I did: that Obama almost has to fire him now.

REALLY sharp commentary by Hume, hope it goes online at Fox soon.

395 Oil spill? What oil spill...

396

1. All the daming quotes in the RS article came from McCrystal's cadre of buttboys, not him. That said, he was cool with it and gave RS the greenlight to publish. As Jean said: calculated bayonet charge.

2. Speaking of damning quotes, this one is tailormade for MoronNation:

"I'd rather have my ass kicked by a roomful of people than go out to this dinner," McChrystal says.

He pauses a beat.

"Unfortunately," he adds, "no one in this room could do it."

With that, he's out the door.

"Who's he going to dinner with?" I ask one of his aides. 

"Some French minister," the aide tells me. "It's fucking gay."

Here's the non-PDF story at Rolling Stone.

397 McChrystal can't lose here this is great. NO General wants to be associated with a loser. If he is not getting proper support, either he WILL so obama can keep him muzzled, or he can be turned loose to tell all as a hero-civilian. obama will choose the lessor of the two evils as he is a political weasel of the the highest caliber.

398 I can't care too much about this kerfuffle. It won't change anything in Afghanistan and I could care less about Obama's trouble with the military. Insubordination, yawn, this is weak shit.

399 Will Obama have corpse-men standing by to haul out McChrystal's carcass?

400 "he has his undivided attention right now" Good, step one accomplished, step two will be to get all of the assholes in one room, step three - see Cuffy's pull above.

401 According to the article, McChrystal voted for Obama.  He also let a reporter from RS into his AOR.  Isee no problem with retiring him for piss poor judgement.

402 I agree with his comments, but there is a thing called the chain of command, and as soldiers, we were forced to use it. Why would any soldier have to use it then? IF a General cannot do it, why should a private. IT leads to a break down in command.

403 Josh - how Generals interact with politicians has very little to do with the chain of command. Just do what your SGT tells you and let them worry about La-La-land.

404 366
not for the reasons you might hope/think. 

Doubt it.

---

From a commenter over at Blackfive: 
I'm not certain how his statement is in any way prophetic. Ok, so Yon doesn't trust him, I get that, but how does Yon not trusting him reflect some prognostication that McChrystal would do an interview with Rolling Stone. Further, your reasoning for mistrusting him (supporting a Dem) is something that apparently Yon didn't have a problem with when he originally supported McChrystal, since he had voted for Obama by that point.

I haven't followed Yon's spiral into insanity super-closely, but I think his problems with McChrystal have more to do with some real or perceived affront the general inflicted on Yon's ego, rather than being based solely or even primarily on McChrystal's attitudes toward the administration or prosecution of the war. 

405 Did Prez Fo-shizzel invite McCrystal Clear over for a beer?

406 I worry about that, because that would mean he's decided that Afghanistan can't be won and he wants to preserve the fiction that he might have won it if not for the interference of his political bosses.

Posted by: ace at June 22, 2010 12:25 PM (3o3v0)

Unwinnable with the current strategy. Forcing Obama to fire him makes the troops respect their CIC more than they would have if McChrystal resigned, which would have sent a really defeatist message. The administration wasn't listening to him. A Congressional hearing wouldn't accomplish anything or get you anywhere with President Golf Pro. But mock him in a magazine the young and hip read? Now Obama is all ears. It might not accomplish anything but ruin McChrystal's career, but more people are reconsidering the wisdom of the ROEs and the timetable for withdrawal.

407

This is a whitehouse in crises. McCrystal should have resigned before going public but that still doesn't obscure the fact that Obama and his minions have lost control of the war effort, the economy, health care, spending and the oil spill.

Maybe he'll do better with the teen lesbians at the whitehouse.

408

117 My kid leaves for Afghanistan this week.

 

God Bless & watch over your child, TC

409

385 Does anyone think that McChrystal wants to get fired?

All he had to do was to quit, spend about two years going about the rubber-chicken circuit and then come back under the next administration (possibly Hillary's). Why go out this way? He's given himself a case of leprosy with this speech. The only sense I can make of this is that McChrystal went momentarily insane.

410 10 McChrystal reportedly voted for Obama.  Nothing reflect worse on his judgment than that.

Posted by: Don't blame me, I voted for Palin at June 22, 2010 09:36 AM (f1EXh)

---------------

That's as far as I need to go. McChrystal deserves all the disillusionment he gets.

411 This does not give a military parent confidence when sending their son overseas to war. The USA is in a DIRE situation right now.

412 Yes the War is Lost, and was as soon as Obama won, but what does losing in Afghanistan mean?

Paleos and Libtards would tell you, not much, Afghanistan goes back to being Afghanistan. But its more:

1. AQ and the Taliban retake Afghanistan, make it a safe zone for Jihad.
2. We can't zap AQ and Taliban folks, since all we have are cruise missiles that are spotted hours in transit over Pakistan, see Clinton, blowing up sand dunes, 1990's.
3. We lose any deterrence or fear by the Taliban and AQ.
4. We suffer attack after attack by an energized global jihad that knows America WAS BEATEN by men of sufficient WILL.
5. Without showing will and determination, our policy of keeping the lid on Pakistan fails and nukes fall into the hands of the Taliban/factions within ISI.
6. America loses one-three cities in shipping container nuke attacks, from a Pakistan, Afghanistan, Taliban, and AQ that knows NO FEAR OF THE US.

The whole point in Afghanistan was not to win. We could never win. But the point was not to lose. We were not playing hearts and minds, that was bs. We were playing to deter the men in the ISI who might think it an easy play to give AQ a nuke to attack the US so as to gain support for their own faction in taking over Pakistan's graft.

Nukes are the great equalizer. It makes Pakistan a nation capable of killing NYC. Without constant deterrence in Afghanistan that does not rise to active war against Pakistan -- we are hosed.

Obama, Paleos, Libtards, Muslims, and the rest all think losing in Afghanistan is cost-free, a "moral dose of defeat and humiliation" for America that they all hate. It is not. Inexorably, it leads to NYC or other cities being nuked.

Because we got pushed out of Afghanistan by guys with AK-47s. Defeat means there is no fear, of what we would do. No restraint.

When (not if) we lose cities, I believe under this President, and demographic make-up (about 35% Black-Hispanic, another 10-15% SWPL), America will in fact surrender. It is not the 1940's. The 1940 Census had America at 89% White, 10% Black, 1% everything else. Demography (and fantastic wealth afforded SWPL) is what divides America and makes it weak. Demographic forces have been yearning for a massive defeat of America since 1970 at least.

We are likely to get it. Particularly if Hotair's link to Numbers USA is correct and Obama uses his pardon power to give all illegals amnesty after the election, and make them fast-track instant voters.

America as we knew it is over. It is irrevocably Mexico Norte. California will be Majority Mexican by 2016. Already more than 50% of babies born in the US are non-White.

Obama, McChrystal, Petraeus, all irrelevant to the huge demographic changes (call it neo-colonialism) that make the US basically a colony of Mexico. Colonies don't fight -- they just surrender. If we can't keep people from entering into America illegally what makes anyone think we as a people have the will to fight in Afghanistan or respond to nuking of US cities with anything but surrender?

413 I had forgotten how stupid Carter was

I'm not speaking either against or in defense of McChrystal.

I'm saying that the Singlaub episode happened probably while McChrystal was bouncing around between various schools and supernumerary assignments at Benning or Bragg.  His instructors and mentors were likely all pre-VOLAR Vietnam vets still smarting on a very personal level from the fall of Saigon less than two years before.

Unless McChrystal had been recycled enough times in Ranger school to spend the first ten months of 1977 in the Florida swamps with no access to any news, discussions of MG Singlaub's relief beat a lesson on civilian control of the military into him at a formative stage of his career.

There is no way in hell that Rolling Stone took McChrystal by surprise.

414 Why did McCrystal state that he voted for Obama? High ranking military officers should not express whom they voted for, it should be private. Because it's rhetoric used to buttress a critical argument. I find this person useless now, but I wanted him to work. I mean, I did vote for him.

415 Clinton / McCrystal 2012. Get on it Ace.

416 I haven't followed Yon's spiral into insanity super-closely

Yon. insane? I'd not take anything Blackfive peeps say about Yon very seriously, the man is invaluable. He was prevented from doing his work in Afghanistan, of course he would be pissed about that considering his considerable investment of time and money in that effort.

417

Might be helpful to read the actual Rolling Stone article in the magazine on Friday rather than rely on the Masturbating Hysterical Ones. Call me crazy.

Bonus: Supposed to have Lady Ga Ga on the cover.

418 I don't disagree with anything McChrystal said -- but knowing as he surely does that 1) Obama ain't gonna change and 2) putting these remarks in the public record would most likely get him fired, the classy thing to do would have been to resign, then speak his mind.

419

McChrystal is far from stupid, and Politico had a side article from the RS editor saying that McChrystal saw the article before publication and did not ask for any changes. 

The question is, how will this play out?  Should be an interesting week.

Makes me think I was right last summer when I didn't volunteer for anything in Asscrackistan.  My heart goes out to the Joes that are going to to bear the pain for this. 

420 "McChrystal's Real Offense... is forcing overly restrictive rules of engagement on our soldiers that wind up killing them."

AS IF the Karzai 12 Rules of Engagement were written by McChrystal or lobbied by McChrystal for Obama to endorse. Nah, the real offense is Bush's doctrine to win the hearts and minds of the enemy with compassion while engaged in war. The rules of engagement originated from the US POTUS Oval Office.  Correct me if I am wrong. McChrystal has done his best to follow Obama's presidential policy. THAT is a losing battle which McChrystal's staff managed to publicize.

421 Fred Thompson spent his show on the McChrystal brouhaha, asking Obama who he plans to replace McChrystal, Obama's own choice.

422 The Rolling Stone reporter was embedded with McChrystal's office for a MONTH, and most of the ridicule directed at Obama came from McChrystal's staff, "off the record".

423 I wonder if General Casey is concerned about how losing McChrystal will affect the army's diversity?  We wouldn't want to stop the army from its main mission, after all.  That would be a real tragedy.

424 438 HAHA!

425 Hmmmm.

Hey yo jugears!

I'm like all sorry and shit for calling you and your crew a bunch of 'tards.

It the fucking truth, but solly and all that.

426 The substance of his remarks is being ignored.  What about the incompetence and indecisiveness of our civilian leadership (from the head down).  Insubordination is bad but sometimes the alternative is worse.  Everyone raises the Truman/McArthur flareup.  What about the yes men generals of the Viet Nam era-they could have used some insubordination and we would have been the better for it.

427

McChrystal is in an impossible situation:  in itself, he shouldn't have criticized the CinC (tho the actual text of the Rolling Stone article isn't as bad as is being made out), and he ought to be fired.  BUT... he's not actually wrong in his critique of Eikenberry and the White House staff.  And Ambassador Eikenberry had already gotten away with a more subtle and effective public smear against McChrystal, which, without any facetime with the Pres or influence in the white house, the general has no legitimate way of counteracting.  So he went public, either out of frustration or even deliberately to get his case out there.

Obama really set this up by not smacking down Eikenberry first, and now Obama's in a tough spot also.  He ought to fire McChrystal, but if he does that he really ought to fire Eikenberry also, except that would lead to turning over the whole leadership in Afghanistan at a very bad time for it.  And McChrystal happens to be good at what he does, though hopefully they can find someone else.

And now to get myself in trouble...  The COIN doctrine of population protection has gained a lot high level and expert backers in the military.  McChrystal's the one in charge now, but Petraeus and most of the the rest of the US officer corps who would know back him on the principles.  If our goal is to defeat a terrorist network in a foreign country as opposed to crushing a standing army, civilian casualties, while sometimes unavoidable, really do set back the achievement of that goal.  That's not a leftist talking point, that's the considered judgement of generals who have won counter-insurgency campaigns.  Minimizing civilian casualties is not just a moral ideal but a practical step towards victory.  This was how we won in Iraq, by getting soldiers out of big bases and out among the population, protecting them even at the cost of some American casualties, then giving al Quaeda in Iraq and others time to reveal their true colors regarding civilian casualties, leading to Iraqis turning against terrorists.  Because there was a time when many were sympathetic, but Petraeus made a deliberate strategic decision to flip them rather than nuke them or subdue them, and it worked.

So...  as unpopular as this is to hear, and acknowledging I'm not worthy to be the one to say it, ROE's that save civilian lives while costing occasional American soldiers' live really may be the only path to victory..  Rolling in like we did when we occupied Germany won't work when the Taliban haven't been defeated like the German army was and Afghanis don't (or believe they don't) have the same relationship to the Taliban as Germans did to the German army. 
(I do question whether we've found the best balance, but that's a different question and one that McChrystal isn't solely to blame for.  Civilian leadership shares some blame, but so do some of the CYA career officers he's working through.)

428 "...may be calling him home to fire him."

Firing a white, military bigshot will give jugears whacking material for years to come...

429 Drudge: FLASH: According to an unnamed source 'Gen. McChrystal has submitted his resignation' - Joe Klein on Rick Sanchez, CNN... Developing...

430

What kind of beer has been ordered?

431 "General Stanley McChrystal had tendered his resignation to President Barack Obama and that the White House is actively discussing a replacement who could be quickly confirmed by the Senate."--Toby Harnden, UK Telegraph

Splitting hairs whether McChrystal officially submitted his resignation letter or just offered to resign isn't practical.

Gen. McChrystal's character is spartan and his reports have been impeccably written to express his strategy. If he were to tender his resignation, it is for real.

How Obama fuddles through his thin skinned offense is predictable, passing the buck and blaming someone else for MAKING Obama such a damned loser.

McChrystal's staff did him in. There's a story for Yon.

432

Singlaub--you may recall--objected publicly  to Carter's stupid, stupid, effing stupid plan to pull US troops out of Korea.

He felt he had to do it to make the thing public.  It did get public.

Carter had to fire him, which made it more newsworthy.

But the Peanut had to back down.

Good on Singlaub.

433 Okay, once again, late to the game, BUT...

McChrystal is Special Forces.

As Fred Thompson once said of the Russians, they "don't take a dump without a plan."

There's no "oops" here. I don't know what the plan is or whether it will work, but I find it hard to believe that this was ANY kind of mistake, especially having reviewed the article before publication.

I just wish I knew what the plan was.

434 456 To get fired before the ratfuck over there really gets noticed?

435 BTW McChrystal needs to be fired,you simply cannot do what he did.If the admin wasn't going to give you what you needed to do the job the honorable thing was to resign.As soon as it became clear he wasn't getting what he needed he should have tendered.

436 The question,  steevy,  is if a regular resignation would have gotten the media's attention and carried McCrystal's message out to the public.  It might have been one of those deals where the White House accepts the resignation and leavks stuff about how he was under too much strain or something like that.

This way,   we have had 24 hours of non-stop talking about this,  and another 24 hours commencing tonight into tomorrow.

It will continue if McCrystal now resigns or if he is fired,  because a replacement will have to be found.  And that could drag on for a couple of weeks,  especially if other officers start declining the command and resigning their commissions.

McCrystal isn't stupid.  Also,  it was brought to my attention on another site that the Obama book by Jonathan Alter has a lot of stuff in it where Obama speaks disdainfully and mockingly of the military.

It might very well be that the publication of that book was the last straw for McCrystal.

437 Renee Sharp, the California director from the Washington-based Environmental Operating Group,cheap wholesale also explained she hoped the law would dissuade buyers from buying relatively substantial radiation mobile phones right up until their impact about the human system is fully understood. The advocacy group supplied reports and other counsel to the city's Department on the Atmosphere as they designed the policy. "We're also hoping it's going to spur greater debate about whether or not the existing federal standards are adequate or not," Sharp mentioned. "We definitely don't consider that persons are not likely to acquire cellular phones as a result of radiation." Business officials wouldn't speculate within the influence to their enterprise, cheap cell phones but a lot of the nation's most popular cellular phones have fairly high SAR levels. That is simply because a lot of those well-liked mobile phones are wise cell phones, which have Wi-Fi and Bluetooth receivers, at the same time as simple cellular capability, that add to their total SAR rating, according to Walls. Below the law, greater chains will have to place SAR notices starting in February, whilst other shops could have till 2012. Although the supervisors have been largely unanimous, reaction outside of Town Hall and across the country was mixed.

438

fendi

fendi handbags

fendi bags

439

 It is my pleasure to read this page,I look forward to reading more

this our web site welcome http://www.haffr.com/vb/

http://www.haffr.com

440 fendi

441 pandora bracelets
pandora charms
pandora bracelets canada
pandora jewelry

442 Just let me know how many votes you need, Murk.