1 big hands you are the one........

2 I think this is a problem with no good answers.

Who is that guy who keeps suggesting we eliminate the FAA?

3 Issue every able passenger a gun. End of problem. /sarc off

4 This is just a messaging issue.  We just need the people to accept that TSA is kabuki security and the agency's main goal is Muslim outreach.

5 I've told the story a while back of taking our son to board a flight in ATL as an unaccompanied minor.  I carried a big ol' sign and he wore a big ol' button, to let the TSA 'tards know I wasn't getting on the plane.  A TSA scrunt pulled me out of line, had me stand spread-eagled, wanded me over every inch of my body, ordered me to remove my sandals, had me sit in a chair and hold my bare feet up to her while she proceeded to use a flashlight to check between my nicely manicured toes, for explosives, I guess.  All the while she carried on a personal conversation on her cellphone with her home girl.  D'oh Boy stood and watched in amazement.  She finally released me to run like hell with my kid to the train and then his gate, where he barely caught his flight. 

And while my blue-eyed, blonde-haired self was going through this screening, swarthy, middle eastern looking guys breezed past me.  This was in 2002. 

6 Are you kidding?  When the next plane blows up, we'll all have to get anal probed before we get a boarding pass. 

Sit down Andrew Sullivan!

7 Whatever happens we will have weak and/or invasive security.

So what your saying is all these men fondling me gets me nothing other than fondled? This is the worst security system ever.

8 Just wear a burka.  Then they'll just feel up your head and neck.  Easy-peasy.

9 Vic, in another thread you mentioned something about viruses "riding" in on Adobe Flash.  How do I turn that off.  I'm using Friefox.

10 Issue every able passenger a gun. End of problem. /sarc off

Holes in plane=bad.

Give them all stun guns.

11 Oh, there's a good answer, Ace:

they will be immediately be sued out of existence by CAIR for taking special notice of Muslim passengers.

There is a very good answer:

sued out of existence

An extremely good answer:

sued

Where does the problem lie?  Where oh where?  Who are the obstacles to common sense?  Who oh who?

12 honestly....what self respecting American would take the job as "groper"? i'm sure the job requirements are: 1. be comfortable invading other peoples personal space 2. be "touchy, feely" 3. voted "creepiest" in high school 4. have personal hygiene issues

13 Private companies did the job fine before 9/11, they just needed to be a little more careful.  If the federal government made sure that laws protected the workers and sat on CAIR a bit more strongly, the lawsuits wouldn't be an issue.

14 Here's my idea:

1. If you're hot, before you leave your house, write "TSA Sux!" in metallic ink on your chest. Opt for the scanner.

2. If you're ugly, like the rest of us, immediately strip naked in a public area. Make sure the TSA guy gets a really good look at your wrinkled scrotum and fat ass. Make the job really distasteful, and make the TSA guy's experience of it really embarrassing.

15

I'll be flying in uniform next time I'm on the road in a couple weeks.  I relish the opportunity to provoke a fight. 

In an ideal world, we would establish a strategy akin to mutually assured destruction--you blow up one of our planes, we'll unleash sarin on Mecca. 

16

jeez Ace, I guess nothing can ever be done about anything, everything is so "nuanced" it's just impossible, so we all to just grin and bear whatever they foist on us, because Ace, Allah, Krauthammer, Rove, Noonan et al say we have to.

ya know who says we don't have to? the TEA Party and Sarah Palin.

so I'll cast my lot with them, they at least are not afraid to try.

 

17

Perhaps the liberal crap about "racial profiling" will finally end. Profiling is part of basic police work, and certain crimes are more common to certain ethnic / racial / religious groups. Simple as that.

But that would mean too much common sense.

18

 

As long as the TSA isn't targeting or profiling Islamic persons or anyone that might actually commit an act of terror on a plane.

 

Best to feel-up the pretty girls and hot grandmas.

*Yeah - I'm not PC with this issue.  Profile.  It might actually save lives.  Frikking government morons.

 

19 The simplest, and cheapest solution is for the airlines to duct tape a machete to the back of every seat and then just let the passengers board.

20
We went from the Left being outraged at the Patriot Act to a Leftist administration treating every traveler at the airport as a terror suspect.

21 Ace of Spades:  Just like Instapundit, except with double posting, comments, and Ewoks.

22 Also, when you get groped, say things like, "Oh, yeah, grab that shit... You're a bad boy!"

23

The answer to this problem is simple and has been put forward. Let the airlines do it.

The airlines have the biggest interest in their planes not exploding in the sky.

And let's say they go overboard, at least you can sue them. The TSA is like every government agency, unaccountable.

The TSA people have the law on their side, and they can lie and be backed up. Kind of like police officers. They "have each others backs" instead of performing their duty as proscribed by law.

24 Going through Cairo Egypt Airport back in July I was approached by airport staff at the security checkpoint at the main entrance and ask if I wanted to bypass security . The price? 5 US  dollars. I payed the 5 bucks and walked threw the door and straight in. Made me feel REAL safe.

25

Ace of Spades:  Just like Instapundit, except with double posting, comments, and Ewoks.

But without the virsuses of Hot Air.

26 Here's my idea:

3) If Moronette, wear skirt.  Apply peanut butter liberally in nether regions.  Opt-out for the grope up the skirt.

As a bonus, said peanut butter can be eaten as a snack on board a snack-free airplane.

27 Related: UK farm toy set no longer comes with pigs in order to avoid offending Muslims.

28 Shoey: He wasn't saying we should do nothing, he was saying nothing will be done. Big difference between "advising inaction" and "acknowledging systemic failure to act".

If someone pulls a When Harry Met Sally, try and get it on video.

29

Dan Greenfield had a good article about this on his blog a day or so ago.

http://tinyurl.com/255humc

Look, the point is is that we are destroying an industry by our irrational response to the bastards who would kill us, which is what the bastards who would kill us would want anyway.  We are doing their work for them.

As Dan intimates in his article, we should be on the offense not on defense and our response to freaking terrorist bastards by way of the TSA is wholey defensive.

They worry about a perception of profiling, for crying out loud?!  These bastards are trying to kill us.  Offending the motherfuckers through profiling should not even be a consideration for us!

30

 Also, when you get groped, say things like, "Oh, yeah, grab that shit... You're a bad boy!"

or something like, "uhhhh....do you have a towel?"

31

Ace, I'm not snarking here.  Since you are saying we can have weak and / or invasive security, and a plane WILL blow up...

Let's go for the no security.  Get rid of the TSA.  At least my junk won't be getting squeezed and probed in the meantime.

 

 

32 Well, at least one flight to Boston was secure on Saturday.  My husband travelled with his folks to a memorial service, and my libtard m-i-l had a pocket knife removed from her purse (I'm still gob-smacked the old biddy was carrying a knife of any kind.  Military and weapons:  Bad!).

33 A females should wear Islamic garb, request hand checks and then inform the TSA agent that they can only be touched on the head and neck. And then see what happens.

If the TSA complies with CAIR, well, that's a problem.

If the TSA doesn't comply, well, the system will be overwhelmed (Cloward Piven) and then will need to figure out a different system.

Win-win I think.

34 Personally I don't care if they scan me and publish my butt ugly pictures on the evening news. But before anybody boards a plane, the airline and security should know EVERYTHING about you. Lets start with that. And if you don't like that, well take a bus.

35


"junk man" has a decent case for an unconstitutional condition suit.  It's lose, but it'd be worth it to challenge his upcoming fine.  He's got a right not to be groped, or be allowed to remove himself from the situation.   Unless he's under arrest, which he's obviously not.

It's lawyers who got us into this, and lawyers will get us out.

 

36

Question:  Does El-Al fly into America?  If so, how do they screen passengers in the U.S.?

Are they profiling?

37

I did pat down searches for years as part of security at a nuclear power plant. Any one entering who did not pass thru an explosive detector and a metal detector was patted down prior to entering. If you entered at a vehicle gate or anywhere other than the main personell access point that meant you were patted down.

My first reaction when I first heard about the TSA patdowns was WTF? How do you do a pat down with the back of your hand.

Not arguing that this should be done but you can not adequatly perform a patdown with the back of your hand. You can pretend to pat  a person down with the back of your hand but you just faking it to make people feel good.

38
Remember when the Left mocked the Bush admin's color-coded terror alerts?

Remember when the Left had a fit because Dick Cheney was gonna find out what books you checked out at the library?

39 When is that backlash against Muslims I keep hearing about going to come through? 

40 9 Vic, in another thread you mentioned something about viruses "riding" in on Adobe Flash.  How do I turn that off.  I'm using Friefox.

Posted by: Sukie Tawdry at November 16, 2010 11:40 AM (jbCcb)

Since I haven't seen a reply yet, I'll reply.

I have the Flashblock add-on installed here. I can still view flash content, but only under my direct control. Not perfect, but it works for me.

41 30

 Also, when you get groped, say things like, "Oh, yeah, grab that shit... You're a bad boy!"

or something like, "uhhhh....do you have a towel?"

Posted by: Ben at November 16, 2010 11:48 AM (wuv1c)

So, what time to you get off work? I'm coming back this afternoon?

42 Question: Does El-Al fly into America? If so, how do they screen passengers in the U.S.? Are they profiling? Posted by: ed at November 16, 2010 11:50 AM (QLhy5) Yes.

43 Why cant the US government subcontract it out to Israel then?

44 Posted by: Presnizzle Obama at November 16, 2010 11:38 AM (xxgag)

If there ever were a fitting hashtag...

45 There is an answer. 1) Use non-invasive bomb detection devices. 2) All cockpits must be locked for the entire flight and the pilots must be armed. 3) Allow conceal-carry on the plane as long as passengers use frangible ammunition.

46

 Also, when you get groped, say things like, "Oh, yeah, grab that shit... You're a bad boy!"

or something like, "uhhhh....do you have a towel?"

or "was it good for you too?" 

47

Question: Does El-Al fly into America? If so, how do they screen passengers in the U.S.?

Are they profiling?

Posted by: ed at November 16, 2010 11:50 AM (QLhy5)
Yes.

yeah, you remember when that person of an undisclosed religion opened fire at the El Al check in counter at LAX and killed people?

48

 

Are you Islamic?  Go on through the check point.  We don't want to profile.

Profiling is wrong.  Your PC liberal betters told me so.

Are you a female who is travleing alone?  We better pat you down. You are obviously a terror threat.

Obama and the democrats are wonderful.  You can trust them to keep you safe in the air.  I am their brain-dead robot.  Bend over.  Next.

49 Also, when you get groped, say things like, "Oh, yeah, grab that shit... You're a bad boy!"

or something like, "uhhhh....do you have a towel?"

or "was it good for you too?" 

or, "You might want to call and doctor and get tested"

50

Answer:  El-Al flies into and OUT of America. 

So, are they profiling in America?

If so, how do they get away with it?  And if they are, how can others get away with it too?

51 I'd pay good money to see San Fran Botox Nan get a pat-down. 

52 True story, I got out pulled out of line as a "training exercise" by the TSA a couple years ago. I started saying stuff like, "I've bee away for a week, this is the first action I've gotten for a week". Moved me through real fast.

53 It's past time that we recognize that CAIR is engaging in lawfare on behalf of our proclaimed enemies.  And treat them accordingly.

54 #49 or, "You might want to call and doctor and get tested"

That's where the peanut butter suggestion would come in real handy. 

55

Ace, I think if a conservative administration got in office and quietly instituted a Israeli style system that it would just work and people would be elated.  And yes I know CAIR and muslims would whine about it but I also think that the support for it would be so overwelming that people would just leave it alone.

56 yeah, you remember when that person of an undisclosed religion opened fire at the El Al check in counter at LAX and killed people? Posted by: Ben at November 16, 2010 11:52 AM (wuv1c) he wasn't an El Al passenger. He just walked up to area and started shooting.

57 34 Personally I don't care if they scan me and publish my butt ugly pictures on the evening news. But before anybody boards a plane, the airline and security should know EVERYTHING about you. Lets start with that. And if you don't like that, well take a bus.

Posted by: nevergiveup at November 16, 2010 11:49 AM (0GFWk)

The problem imio, is that air travel instead of being a convenience, has been rendered an inconvenience.  By way of an example, I can drive eight hours to visit my relatives or I can take a two hour flight which after all of the bullshit that I have to go through to abide by all of the indirectly terrorist imposed restrictions will also take me eight hours.  Taking a bus, while it may seem reasonable, is the same as surrendering to the terrorists.

58 1. Pass a law giving the contractors immunity from discrimination-related civil suits.

59 Also, when you get groped, say things like, "Oh, yeah, grab that shit... You're a bad boy!"

"I was a very bad boy at the bath house this afternoon.  Have you ever had sex with three strangers in a sauna?"

60

#28

joanne, i'm not here to kiss ass i'm here to call it as i see it.

61 Answer: El-Al flies into and OUT of America. So, are they profiling in America? If so, how do they get away with it? And if they are, how can others get away with it too? Posted by: ed at November 16, 2010 11:53 AM (QLhy5) A) they don't give a shit B) they keep complete records of EVERYONE who flies with them. If they do not have a record of you, be prepared for a more in depth interview at the Airport ( not that that might not happen anyway) C) because people who fly EL AL appreciate the fact that they will not blow up at 35,000 feet.

62 These progressive asshats will be the death of us all. I would not be surprised at a nuke in NY City or LA any time now. Our dim-o-KKK-rat "friends" won't be satisfied until this happens or we are all wearing towels on our heads and our gals are wearing those most revealing burkas.

A pox  on them all!

63 56 yeah, you remember when that person of an undisclosed religion opened fire at the El Al check in counter at LAX and killed people?

Posted by: Ben at November 16, 2010 11:52 AM (wuv1c)


he wasn't an El Al passenger. He just walked up to area and started shooting.

Posted by: nevergiveup at November 16, 2010 11:54 AM (0GFWk)

Flew about a month ago, there was a heighten alert. They had us  milling around (about 700 people) waiting to get through the checkpoint. I kept thinking, "all some muzzie needs to do is walk in with 3 frag grenades"

64 Holes in plane=bad.

According to the engineers at Boeing, not as much of a problem as you think. 

65 Lawsuits? Bring 'em. A hundred thousand of them. At some point, someone will have to give up.

And while we're at it, quick poll:

Whom do you trust to put some brains and teeth into the TSA?

- President RomneyDanielsPawlentyGingrich
- President Palin

66

Sorry, but it's much easier to just say that you're a sex abuse victim and demand a female do the search (if you're a male).  No woman's going to be touching junk all day.  Especially when you hand them a few bucks as you leave.

67 65 Lawsuits? Bring 'em. A hundred thousand of them. At some point, someone will have to give up.

And while we're at it, quick poll:

Whom do you trust to put some brains and teeth into the TSA?

- President RomneyDanielsPawlentyGingrich
- President Palin

Posted by: arhooley, conflicted Californian at November 16, 2010 11:57 AM (cCItt)

President Cheney

68

To me this comes down to a very simple question; is there a real threat or not? Based on your comment about when (not if) another plane blows up, I'd say you believe there is a real threat, as do I. 

The only methods we currently have to insure no tools of destruction can be smuggled aboard an aircraft involve intrusive searches. Profiling and other non-PC techniques are fine, but searches are still necessary. So we either put up with the searches, or ignore the threat and hope the plane we happen to be on is not the one that blows up. 

I'd certainly like to see a higher level of professionalism from security personnel than what is often displayed, but personally, I'd rather have a TSA drone feel up my junk than have an NTSB investigator scrape up bits of my junk with a squeegee.

69 For those of you not familiar with Israel's airport security procedures:

Foiled Detroit Airport Attack Highlights Israel's Security Success

Israel has what security experts say is perhaps the world's most effective system of screening air passengers.  Despite constant threats from Palestinian terrorist groups, no flight from Tel Aviv's Ben Gurion airport has ever been blown up or hijacked, and the airport has not been attacked since the early 1970s.  This success is due to a sophisticated system that combines intelligence reporting, profiling, and state-of-the-art technology for detecting weapons and explosives.  

70 On a related note: EL AL provides security to other Airlines that fly into and out of Tel Aviv. That might be ending in April due to some dispute with the Israeli Government.

71

thus far in the most recent cases of a terrorist boarding a plane with hidden explosives there were several other red flags that should have allowed TSA to stop the attacker ...

when the bad guys get a 70 year old white grandmother to carry on a bomb then I agree that this "may" be necessary ...  until then ...  proFILE, prOFILE, pROFILE, PROFILE ...

step

72 I got pulled into one of those fucking machines last month.  I agreed to go in and the lazy old motherfucker working TSA didn't touch my junk but when they ask you if you have anything in your pockets, they mean anything.  This old fuck, instead of sending my wallet through the xray machine, he goes through everything, receipts, credit cards, everything.  He then hands it back to me with shit hanging out and falling to the ground.  Fucking prick, see if I ever come back to Memphis.

73

 Also, when you get groped, say things like, "Oh, yeah, grab that shit... You're a bad boy!"

or something like, "uhhhh....do you have a towel?"

or "was it good for you too?" 

or, "You might want to call and doctor and get tested"

Shear it!

http://bit.ly/9QAQz9

74

#68

those who desire security over freedom deserve neither.

75 A few years back I was on my way to Warsaw via Frankfurt.  Parked next to my the plane I was in was an El Al jet.  It was ringed with very stern looking soldiers with sub-machine guns and dogs.

76

nevergiveup at November 16, 2010 11:57 AM (0GFWk)

So ace is wrong.^*  You can do this sort of profiling in America at the airport.  So let's stop beating our chests about how impossible it is to do this sort of security and looking into seriously implementing it.

Instead of profiling a few, we choose to search EVERYONE????

How the hell does that make sense?

 

 

*Unless he's right, and nevergiveup is wrong.

77 If they really want to check for explosives, why not just use dogs? They're a lot cheaper and safer than these damn machines, most people love dogs, and even if the dog is rude and accidentally sniffs your crotch you laugh it off because it's just a dog being a dog.

78
Searches should only be done for reasonable cause.

This is where the art of profiling comes in.

We cannot live in a country that treats everyone as a terror suspect.

79 NM, Hick @ 41.  Thanks.  Downloaded and done.

80 The TSA at JFK airport is an actual criminal racket.  I know because I've had high value stuff stolen by them, and the Port Authority Police tacitly acknowledge that they know its going on.

81

Sorry, but it's much easier to just say that you're a sex abuse victim and demand a female do the search (if you're a male).  No woman's going to be touching junk all day.  Especially when you hand them a few bucks as you leave.

put a dollar in their waste band when they are done.

 

as for israel, it is already a quasi-police state when it comes to security. The Israelis are used to it. We aren't. We really are a country where freedom of movement is breed into us, so what's going on strikes us as an invasion of privacy, even if it is necassary, which is debateable.

Also, get ready for this. If the GOP stops these patdowns and there is a terrorist attack on a plane(which their will be pat downs or no pat downs), get ready for Obama to blame republicans for a terrorist attack. I would put money on it.

82 Someone pointed out that TSA security procedures have never stopped a terrorist attack - if they were stopped it was by the passengers on a plane.
I hated flying before because of these TSA cretins. No way I am getting on a plane now.

83

waist not waste.

jeez

84 Napolitano may actually give in and focus on the real threat: The lack of serious profiling. She understands that political correctness is preventing the TSA from targeting the real malefactors here... elderly grey-haired grandmothers.

85 those who desire security over freedom deserve neither. Posted by: Shoey at November 16, 2010 12:01 PM (ehKDD) Cute phrase but I prefer landing after each take off rather than falling from the sky in pieces.

86

The terrorists aren't winning:

http://tinyurl.com/29hjuc4

We are just giving up. 

via Instapundit

87 Whom do you trust to put some brains and teeth into the TSA?

- President RomneyDanielsPawlentyGingrich
- President Palin
Posted by: arhooley, conflicted Californian at November 16, 2010 11:57 AM

President Bolton.

I'd expect silence from the first four you mention, and a strongly worded Facebook post (and maybe an anguished Tweet) from the other.

88 77 If they really want to check for explosives, why not just use dogs? They're a lot cheaper and safer than these damn machines, most people love dogs, and even if the dog is rude and accidentally sniffs your crotch you laugh it off because it's just a dog being a dog.

Posted by: Ghost of Lee Atwater at November 16, 2010 12:01 PM (JxMoP)

CAIR would sue in about 1 second. Muzzies hate dogs.

89

Flew about a month ago, there was a heighten alert. They had us  milling around (about 700 people) waiting to get through the checkpoint. I kept thinking, "all some muzzie needs to do is walk in with 3 frag grenades"

Posted by: Radioactive Satellite Of LOVE at November 16, 2010 11:57 AM (zqzYV)

That's what I was thinking on 9-11 while in the airport after they grounded all flights.  They directed everyone to baggage claim to get the bags we had checked.  When my wife finally got a hold of me and told me about the Pentagon, etc.  I looked around and thought "If you wanted to kill a lot of people, this would be the place."  Left my luggage and hightailed it home.

90 Meanwhile, the TSA refuses to switch to an Israeli-type security regime, preferring useless but showy demonstrations of "security theater." With jazz hands, it could be fabulous!

91 joanne, i'm not here to kiss ass i'm here to call it as i see it.

Yeah? Well, I "see" that you don't have the brainpower to double-check that you have the name right before replying. Or to spell or punctuate correctly. Or to parse thoughts more complex than "I want a sandwich." Go away until you can provide something constructive.

/done feeding the trolls

92 2 ways to go here: 1. Everyone, even big stupid micks like me, wear a burqa. 2. Everyone has to fly naked but they can bring a spear gun.

93
This is all so fucking dumb.

The terrorists have won. We are now afraid to fly and the govt is running around chasing its tail.

The terrorists won't even bother with airplanes, anymore. What's next? Malls.

94 Cute phrase but I prefer landing after each take off rather than falling from the sky in pieces.

Posted by: nevergiveup at November 16, 2010 12:03 PM (0GFWk)

 

better to die a free man than live as a slave

95

I'd certainly like to see a higher level of professionalism from security personnel than what is often displayed, but personally, I'd rather have a TSA drone feel up my junk than have an NTSB investigator scrape up bits of my junk with a squeegee.

And when someone is caught smuggling explosive in their rectum or vagina, you are OK with getting an anal probe prior to each flight?

You think I'm snarking, but I'm not.

Are you willing to submit to an anal or vaginal probe prior to each flight? 

96 also, it should be pointed out, as someone did earlier, that Michael Chertoff's company owns, either part or all, of the company that makes these scanning machines.

97 1. Hire Israelis to train TSA. 2. Exempt TSA personnel from civil rights suits. 3. VASTLY increase the use of bomb-sniffing dogs or analogous technology. Outcome: No further need to grope fat, ugly guys who smell bad from traveling on overcrowded planes and walking long distances in ill-designed airports. Not that I would know anything about that.

98 *Unless he's right, and nevergiveup is wrong. Posted by: ed at November 16, 2010 12:01 PM (QLhy5) EL AL does this sort of profiling. They don't ask permission. They do what they do and the US Gov looks the other way for a whole host of reasons.

99 "... the choice isn't really between strong security and weak and/or invasive security; it's a choice between weak and/or invasive security and... well, there is no choice."

Wrong. The choice is between private companies which will be forced to innovate based on competition (even if they don't utilize the same techniques as the Israelis) or the TSA which will never do anything except become mare and more bloated and invasive and useless.

Just like most programs and organizations engineered by the Dems.

100 >>At least until the next plane blows up (and it will blow up) and 300 people die As someone who spends a fair amount of time flying particularly internationally, I just want to say good morning to you, too. Avenge me morons! Wolverines!!

101 Napolitano may actually give in and focus on the real threat: The lack of serious profiling.

And don't forget, love is hate and the clocks are striking thirteen.

102 Dropped this in the wrong thread; Until everyone gets swabbed for an explosives check, we have to walk past a gauntlet of dogs, and TSA fixes the horrible identity triangle problem - no pat downs. The real way to fix this - hold all aircraft at their gate for every passenger that has checked in - the howl from the airlines and FCC will get things fixed long before a blogger.

103 Meanwhile, the TSA refuses to switch to an Israeli-type security regime,...

Of course, the reason being that CAIR and like groups would scream loudly about it.

104 Make every boarding area seperate. Mandate that anybody who gets on the plane has to be in said area thirty minutes prior to boarding. Then give each passenger a piece of paper and have each of them anonymously nominate two people for additional screening. Top vote getters get scanned. Just playing with ideas, I know it'll never happen...

105 In an ideal world, we would establish a strategy akin to mutually assured destruction--you blow up one of our planes, we'll unleash sarin on Mecca.

I forget the name of the novel, but in it there was a similar policy. The policy was to nuke a random national sponsor of terrorism whenever a terrorist attack occurred.

Just have to spread the word about the new policy before any covered incident occurs. Get 'em guessing.

106 All flights are all nude.

Problem solved.

107 We need the loser pay all for lawsuits. Would stop most of those frivolous suits. Better yet, make the losing lawyers pay all the costs.

108

speaking of which, drudge has a headline about the XXX scans leaking online.

 

109 better to die a free man than live as a slave Posted by: Shoey at November 16, 2010 12:04 PM (ehKDD) What do you got one of them "100 Phrase" books?

110 If the GOP stops these patdowns and there is a terrorist attack on a plane(which their will be pat downs or no pat downs), get ready for Obama to blame republicans for a terrorist attack. I would put money on it. Posted by: Ben at November 16, 2010 12:01 PM

If the GOP doesn't replace the current screwed-up system with something like the effective European/Israeli model (trained observers, profiling), they're dumber than I think, and will deserve whatever wrath is heaped on them.

111 OT - Rangel found guilty of violating 11 House rules

WASHINGTON Â— An eight-member House ethics panel found Democratic Rep. Charles Rangel in violation of 11 congressional rules.

The jury of Rangel's congressional peers agreed on 11 of 13 charges against the New York lawmaker.

/Racist!  Too bad he'll only get a slap on the wrist. 

112

Breaking

Ethics committee finds Rangel Guilty.

The penalty is he has to share some of his ill gotten loot and bribe swag with the ethics committee.

113 Personally, I always carry a hidden bomb when I fly. Why? Well, the chances of someone having a bomb on a plane are pretty small. But the chances of having two people carrying bombs is astronomically small.

114 97 1. Hire Israelis to train TSA.
2. Exempt TSA personnel from civil rights suits.
3. VASTLY increase the use of bomb-sniffing dogs or analogous technology.

Outcome: No further need to grope fat, ugly guys who smell bad from traveling on overcrowded planes and walking long distances in ill-designed airports. Not that I would know anything about that.

Posted by: joncelli at November 16, 2010 12:04 PM (RD7QR)

I can do it in one step:

1. Hire Israelis to hunt down and kill all Al-Queda operatives

115

I'd accept the risk of flying just so long as when I was crashing back to earth, I could visualize my descendants, my friends, and my nation taking violent manifold revenge on those who perpetrated these acts. 

All men die...but to have others avenge your deaths...is true love. 

116 14 Here's my idea: 1. If you're hot, before you leave your house, write "TSA Sux!" in metallic ink on your chest. Opt for the scanner. 2. If you're ugly, like the rest of us, immediately strip naked in a public area. Make sure the TSA guy gets a really good look at your wrinkled scrotum and fat ass. Make the job really distasteful, and make the TSA guy's experience of it really embarrassing. Posted by: Farmer Joe at November 16, 2010 11:42 AM (z4es9) Eat a giant bean-filled breakfast burrito and fart in their faces. You'll see what one man can do, my friend...

117 I forgot - and a mandatory sample from a juicy plate of hot bacon

118

better to die a free man than live as a slave

Posted by: Shoey at November 16, 2010 12:04 PM (ehKDD)

How's that sandwich treatin' you? 

119 "his is a problem with no good answers."

You're absolutely right, Ace.

I'd wager that, I dunno, just about every commenter here and pundits all over the MSM and intertubes who are today wailing about the intrusive TSA procedures (and they are intrusive) were, not even a year ago asking: How could the TSA procedures allow Umar Farouk Abdulmutallab inside a secure area?

So the question before us today is: When the terrorists began to pack their explosives around their junk, how do you propose we find it unless we look at everybody's junk?

[And yeah...I get it that most of our problems are caused by Muslim Arabs, and that they ought to get more scrutiny than the rest of us. However, you only have to think back to Johnny Walker Lindh, Richard Reid, Jose Padilla, or Adam Gadahn to find examples of non-Arab Muslim terrorists who pose just as deadly a problem.]

[Full Attribution: In my real non-moron life, I am an airline pilot, and see the TSA procedures far more than most.]

120 CAIR would sue in about 1 second. Muzzies hate dogs.


Not all muzzies hate dogs.  And CAIR needs to be squashed, with extreme prejudice. 

121
unanimous, Kratos-mentis?

122 Rangel found guilty on ethics charges.

123 This is why God invented Nina Hagen-style stuffed cat head spanky pants.

124

@113

that's hilarious, but I am guessing you will have agents kicking down your door any minute

125 106 All flights are all nude.

Problem solved.

Posted by: nickless at November 16, 2010 12:05 PM (MMC8r)

Based on the people that I have sat next to lately...Ummm HELL FUCKING NO!

126
What do you got one of them "100 Phrase" books?

Posted by: nevergiveup at November 16, 2010 12:06 PM (0GFWk)

 

only in my head...

127 George Orwell

Someone hand this guy a Nobel Prize.  He just solved our security problems.

128 I never go unarmed on a plane.  I've got one of those ball point pens that can be rammed thru a steel door.  I've got a decent sized lock on my carry-on with a non-metallic lanyard in a side pocket with a clip for the lock...makes a nice swinging club.  I've got two DVD disks dremil'd into the shape of sharp push-daggers, and then the labels re-applied to hold the re-assembled DVD together.  I carry a mini-medi kit with sharp scissors, a hypo, and a pen-knife...I tell them I'm diabetic and it's never been confiscated in a dozen flights a year for the past 8 years.

After my stroke 3 years ago I started carrying a Cold Steel city stick cane only when I fly.  I can limp on demand if I need to.

I also profile the shit out of my fellow passengers.

Flying is no longer fun, but I plan to survive it.  If they let me carry firearms on a plane, you'd need a forklift to load me.

129 [And yeah...I get it that most of our problems are caused by Muslim Arabs, and that they ought to get more scrutiny than the rest of us. However, you only have to think back to Johnny Walker Lindh, Richard Reid, Jose Padilla, or Adam Gadahn to find examples of non-Arab Muslim terrorists who pose just as deadly a problem.] [Full Attribution: In my real non-moron life, I am an airline pilot, and see the TSA procedures far more than most.] Posted by: azlibertarian at November 16, 2010 12:07 PM (qisYI) And if we had their "travel Histories" on file, they never would get on a plane either- well not with out being stripped searched.

130
**BREAKING**

Congress prepares WET NOODLE for Charlie Rangel's wrist-lashing.

131 122 Rangel found guilty on ethics charges.

Posted by: Lady in Black at November 16, 2010 12:08 PM (M6enm)

Next up: wrist slap!

132 Anyone else thinking of Derek Smalls and the foil-wrapped cucumber?

133

Boner and Steny are boiling the water, now.

Nancy is bringing the noodles.

134 And while my blue-eyed, blonde-haired self was going through this screening, swarthy, middle eastern looking guys breezed past me.

I was once unamused by MKE swabbing my pork summer sausage for explosives while letting the 20-something middle-eastern guy head of me through with an 8 oz bottle of cologne.

135 All of these bomb attempts were foiled by the best security system... private citizens on board the plane. Seems a damn good security measure. Arm them. And it doesn't seem a good idea to say you're loving the groping. Because the morbidly obese GED superstar may be loving it too. You don't want him taking you to the TSA champagne room.

136 And if we had their "travel Histories" on file, they never would get on a plane either- well not with out being stripped searched.

Not even with being strip-searched, I'd hope.

And I totally want to sit by trainer on my next flight.

137 If young muslim men had been watched more carefully in airports in the first place, this wouldn't be an issue right now.

138 Perhaps the punishment for Rangel will be serving a day as a TSA inspector at the Dallas Ft. Worth Airport during the Texas Chili Festival.

139 hey Janet....
this ones for you:
http://tinyurl.com/2e5b5ea

140 Completely freaking irrelevant.  Pull this mental string and it will stop where it always does: a defensively-focused strategy always fails.  Since the first cannonball knocked down its first stone wall, its a FACT that you must take the fight to the enemy, not wait for him to come to you.  THAT's the other side of the Israeli analogy no one is mentioning.  Try to attack El Al or Ben Gurion Airport and Shin Bet visits you before you even organize two people.  We did this pretty well until right around 2008. 

141 yep i'm for the dogs.....even if they aren't all bomb sniffing dogs.....the people with explosives won't know which dogs are or aren't and they will sweat...especially when the handler can make them randomly snarl......

142 And when someone is caught smuggling explosive in their rectum or vagina, you are OK with getting an anal probe prior to each flight?


There's already been an attempted assassination of a Saudi prince with an asshole bomb.  I'm surprised TSA isn't doing colonoscopies already.

143

And I totally want to sit by trainer on my next flight.

i was think the same thing. This guy is awesome.

144 Heard this morning that Soros owns considerable stock in the Porno Scan machines. 

145 @68, there is NO REASON for patdowns or even for the nude scanners. The scanners are way too easy to mess with and the patdowns are time-consuming, resource-intensive (the "don't touch my junk guy" tied up, what, 7 agents for almost an hour?), and ineffective while being simultaneously offensive.

There is no logical reason to waste resources on patting down little kids, old people, or nuns. The best and most reasonable course (both for efficiency and effectiveness) is profiling -- which even "police state" Israel does without groping or violating passengers. I.e., their police state is more respectful of people than the TSA.

The TSA measures have nothing to do with security and everything to do with control. There's no defense for that.

146

I think Winnebago is behind all of this--because traveling via RV is becoming a far more palatable alternative. 

147

Next up: wrist slap!

Posted by: Radioactive Satellite Of LOVE at November 16, 2010 12:10 PM

Yup. Right after the CBC demands an apology from the eeeevil racist bastards who treated Charlie the Victim so shabbily in the hearing.

148 And if we had their "travel Histories" on file, they never would get on a plane either- well not with out being stripped searched. Not even with being strip-searched, I'd hope. And I totally want to sit by trainer on my next flight. Posted by: HeatherRadish at November 16, 2010 12:12 PM (A/iZj) Actually EL AL let Richard Reid ( shoe bomber ) fly to Israel on EL AL. Of course they sat a armed security agent right next to him the whole flight

149 There's already been an attempted assassination of a Saudi prince with an asshole bomb. I remember that but who was the asshole? I could see Biden doing it but Barry likes the Saudis too much.

150 Rangel found guilty of violating 11 House rules

Rules? We make 'em up.. as we go along.

151 GOP won't do anything. They'd figure if a plane does get hijacked, they'd be blamed for weakening security measures. They'll opt for the easy out of complaining about it and then, in the end, do nothing.

152

What I don't get is why they pat down or scan pilots.

If a pilot wants to kill people on board, he doesn't need a bomb or gun, he's the freaking pilot.

153 We'll know it's really going too far when you see the TSA lackeys looking at the scanners with 3-D glasses.

154
Who's on the Ethics Committee?

Patches Kennedy?

155 I'm flying over Thanksgiving. I'm thinking about taping EAT ME on my chest with electrical tape.

156 You'll see what one man can do, my friend...

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at November 16, 2010 12:07 PM (9Cooa)

"...because what comes out of the pipe from Texico is good for my baby!"

157 I'm a commercial diver, and when ever I fly with my gear I carry my dive helmet on board, because it costs six grand and I don't trust the luggage handlers to not destroy it. Anyway, a couple of months ago I accidentally left one of my dive knives in the bag with it. It went through the x-ray and everything-- nobody caught it. Great job, tsa....

158 @156 LOL. Times two.

159 it's a choice between weak and/or invasive security and... well, there is no choice. Whatever happens we will have weak and/or invasive security. At least until the next plane blows up (and it will blow up) and 300 people die. --Ace

There's the admission: Weak and/or invasive security do not make flights secure.

As Michael Savage pointed out to Laura Ingraham this last half hour on her show, DHS officials are making personal fortunes from their decided policies, as with Michael Chertoff's personal profits from Rapiscan.

Along with the difficult but necessary termination of the incestuous relationship between government officials and private business, the easier first fix is for government to terminate PC policies, and actually take the initiative suing organizations like CAIR and ACLU for demanding the unreasonable from both government AND the public wherein we are all equal under the law and there's no "special" class.

 

160

I think Winnebago is behind all of this--because traveling via RV is becoming a far more palatable alternative. 

Also if I had the time I would take a train.  Sleeper cars, dining cars and a bar.  Plus you can take in the scenery.

161  This success is due to a sophisticated system that combines intelligence reporting, profiling, and state-of-the-art technology for detecting weapons and explosives.  

Posted by: Kratos (Ghost of Sparta) at November 16, 2010 11:59 AM (9hSKh)

Yeah and if you don't want to participate in any of those measures including the state of the art tech part you don't frigging  fly. It's that simple.

If you're worried about the scanner drive instead. If you want to include profiling in the mix I'm all for it.

Bottom line is that if you want to ride on somebodies plane you can do what they want you to do or not fly on it.

162 This scanning controversy reminds me of when I took my physical for the US Navy. Since I was over 50, they had to give an internal exam. There were 2 Docs there. One really old guy that looked like that guy from that burt reynolds movie and this kinda cute girl. She said I could see him but she advised me to let her do it. Hey I took her up on it in a NY Minute!

163

"A TSA scrunt pulled me out of line, had me stand spread-eagled, wanded me over every inch of my body... "

A few years ago, when I returned to the Philly airport from Germany, I got pulled aside. The guy opened up my suitcase and started sifting through it. Unfortunately, I had stuffed all my underwear around the perimeter and they all fell out onto the floor. He told me to pick them up. I was so tired, I just burst into tears. Nothing worse than crying while picking your panties off an aiport floor in front of a group of people.

164 I remember that but who was the asshole? I could see Biden doing it but Barry likes the Saudis too much.


Hey, a new career path for me!! 

165 Make every single judge in the U.S. take a flight somewhere and go through the invasive TSA procedures. Then switch over to Israeli-style security screening and make the judges fly somewhere again.

After this, there would probably be a fair amount of judges who would be able to connect their experiences with any CAIR lawsuit that came their way...

166 The best solution? Get rid of the muslims.

167
it would be worse if you were naked

168 Someone pat down 161.

169 How could the TSA procedures allow Umar Farouk Abdulmutallab inside a secure area?

He never should have gotten as far as the checkpoint with no passport.

170

1. There is at least one explosive material that dogs cannot detect; I do not recall the name. I think it starts with the letter 'p'.

2. We have already been lied to about the ability of the machines to store and transmit images. Doing both functions were part of the original contract. And images from a machine that was returned to the manufacturer were posted on Gizmodo.

3. Mark Steyn pointed out in 2001 that the passengers that resisted were doing so in contravention of the official rules. Passengers are expected to meekly sit and await developments. Both  the shoe bomber ad the panty bomber were stopped by a combination of passengers being assertive ad the bombers being stupid.

4. Several sites have already noted that the logical next steps are for a concerted attack on the terminal where passengers are being forced to mass awaiting the security checkpoints and for a bomb in a body cavity. Supposedly searches for liquids, removing shoes and feeling up three year olds is reasonable. Once a body cavity attack is attempted, will our betters then ramp up searches of body cavities? And will those who see these previous steps as being reasonable sign on for this as well?

5. Those who scoff at such escalations should try educating themselves on the IRAs' bombing campaigns. Most were designed to provoke discomfort and an overreaction by the British government, not just inflicting casualties.

171 The best solution? Get rid of the muslims. Too obvious. Doesn't leave room for blue ribbon committees and paneled bureaucracies. Also, it leaves ordinary citizens unhindered and they must learn their place.

172 and if you don't want to participate in any of those measures including the state of the art tech part you don't frigging  fly. It's that simple.

So it's cool with you if a sadistic totalitarian government bureaucracy limits its citizens' opportunities to pursue otherwise legal family, business, educational, and sexual interests, for no good reason whatsoever?

Markos, is that you?

173

There is at least one explosive material that dogs cannot detect; I do not recall the name. I think it starts with the letter 'p'.

I know it's not "poo" 

174 Correct me if I am wrong, but didn't the panty bomber and the shoe bomber originate from outside the country?

175 originate their flights I mean.

176 ^{113 Personally, I always carry a hidden bomb when I fly. Why? Well, the chances of someone having a bomb on a plane are pretty small. But the chances of having two people carrying bombs is astronomically small.}

^{Posted by: George Orwell at November 16, 2010 12:07 PM (AZGON)}

So, um, where exactly did you hide it?

177 Eat this ham sandwich, go straight to the gate.

Easy.

178 Yes

179 Upon boarding, just issue 1911's for anyone who wants one.

180 @119, um, no, actually, I wasn't asking that question. I was asking why a known terrorist, after multiple calls about a planned attack, without a passport, was let onto a plane at all, much less without screening. I was not asking, "why didn't anyone grope his johnson?"

So, there's no need to look at anyone's junk. The Israelis don't need to and their searches are actually, you know, effective. The Israelis have made some awesome catches, by the way, without groping anyone. They caught one where the Pali parents shoved explosives up their infant's rectum (they noticed the crying and the blood in the diaper). They caught one where the pregnant white Irish girlfriend of a Pali was unknowingly carrying a bomb -- her Pali boyfriend had canceled the flight at the last minute, but sent her on ahead. He slipped the bomb in her baggage and, since she didn't know about it, he thought she would get past security. I have no confidence that the TSA would or could catch any of those, no matter how much junk they fondle.

As for the non-Arab Muslims -- they were actually more crazy looking than the Arab Muslims. All of those guys had the outrageous dress, scruffy beards, and crazy eyes. That should have triggered a second look even without junk groping.

181 Dunno if it's been said in the comments yet, but FUCK CAIR.

Islam lost all its rights to protest about being profiled at airports a long time ago.

182 176 Correct me if I am wrong, but didn't the panty bomber and the shoe bomber originate from outside the country? Posted by: Guy Fawkes at November 16, 2010 12:25 PM (JcRgg) Yes, both from Europe, IIRC.

183 @172 Seriously, what else is there to add? Profile the fucking bombers, the muslim males. Go Israeli. The way we citizens have collectively accepted the gubmint playing multiculti mumbly-peg with our lives is insane and troublesome. We're losing ownership of ourselves.

184

I don't know what the fuse is all about.

I've just been hired by TSA and I've scored my dream job. 

 

185 To be fair to the TSA, some of us have johnson's that are capable of bringing down an airliner?

186

The question no one seems willing to talk about though... is does this invasion of our privacy do any good?

Not a single person has been caught by these searches, either physical, or scans.  So it ends up being like a lot of Recycling... it mades you feel like you are doing somthing, while not accomplishing a dang thing...

 

187 *fuss

188 172  I'm surprised that they haven't targeted the line going into the TSA search already.  The idiots created a prime target for suicide bombers with the way they have set up the security stations at most airports.

189 Those who scoff at such escalations

should reflect on how they would have thought about getting their man meat man handled and nudie picks of themselves prior to the fruit of the boom.

190 187 To be fair to the TSA, some of us have johnson's that are capable of bringing down an airliner?   Remeber the Spinal Tap scene of security check?

191 To be fair to the TSA, some of us have johnson's that are capable of bringing down an airliner? I'm not telling, but yes.

192 There is at least one explosive material that dogs cannot detect; I do not recall the name. I think it starts with the letter 'p'. Wrong, old wives tale, http://tinyurl.com/38phosk . There may be a very low vapor pressure explosive that is difficult for dogs to detect - but getting a hold of it and successfully initiating it would be a challenge.

193 allow passengers to choose from a group of hot chicks and studs who they want to fondle them. Also maybe 1 tranny on call if someone would prefer someone of an indeterminate gender

194 There is at least one explosive material that dogs cannot detect; I do not recall the name. I think it starts with the letter 'p'.

PETN, IIRC.  It's what the underwear bomber had, so he would not have been caught by this TSA even if he was groped.

195

Go Israeli.

Hey, if anyone wants to start a kibbutz here in Hampton Roads...I've been in contact with the consulate about recruiting some hotties from Mossad to come and help us set up. 

196 Correct me if I am wrong, but didn't the panty bomber and the shoe bomber originate from outside the country?

Posted by: Guy Fawkes

 

Yes. That's yet another problem. 'Our' bombers during the last ten years were either foreign nationals enjoying their stay courtesy of a fucked up visa system and political correctness (musn't question a muslim) or twitch cases originating from outside the US. The visa system is no better than it was ten years ago. And we cannot control what boards US bound flights, even when the panty bombers own father ratted him out and reported him prior to the flight.

 

But I'm supposed to believe that 67,000 ill-trained idiots screaming "I've got the power" ill be of any use. Two words: town clowns/local police. They are usually seen as the dregs of law enforcement, with scanty training, supervision and frequently having a revenue generating mission. What else would we expect from such a governmental spawned force?

197 Correction. The invasive security is ALSO weak security. It is not as if the latter is efficient or secure. Near universal scan or pat has serious security holes, and is a poor allocation of recources that redirects away from real threat. A fewer number of more highly skilled agents reviewing manifests, profiles, country of origin or destination, tickets, identity documents, business of traveler, and with hard attention any security notices regarding particular threats by a particular group of persons is far more likely to yield security than scans and pats, at far less cost to the privacy and rights of individuals who are lower risk. The scan/grope procedure does not thwart "the determined enemy" that J. Napolitano can't even identify out loud to the public - at all, and actually allows potential terrorists to create and/or exploit diversions. The policy of drawing attention and humiliating opt-out passengers ( to encourage other passengers to opt-in) meant that to keep lines moving, other passengers were run through the "turnstiles" with no checks at all. If I were a terrorist, I *would* exploit that easy option for getting on a plane with no security check - put a "resistor" in line, and then march through as that person is attended to by surly, lecturing, chip-on-shoulder TSA agents. Too, too easy. Again TOP FALLACY - that the choice is invasive or weak security. BOTH ARE WEAK.

198 So it's cool with you if a sadistic totalitarian government bureaucracy limits its citizens' opportunities to pursue otherwise legal family, business, educational, and sexual interests, for no good reason whatsoever?

Markos, is that you?

Posted by: HeatherRadish at November 16, 2010 12:24 PM (A/iZj)

They aren't limiting it, they're saying if you want to ride on this plane go through the scanner. If you don't want to ride on it don't go through it and take your car or a boat or swim.

If you have a better alternative I am all for it. If you don't want any security and just want to roll the dice I'll make that dicision on what I think my odds are.

I just don't think the scanner is that big of deal.

199 If a pilot wants to kill people on board, he doesn't need a bomb or gun, he's the freaking pilot.

Already happened about 10 years ago or so with an Egyptian Air flight.

200 Too obvious. Doesn't leave room for blue ribbon committees and paneled bureaucracies. Also, it leaves ordinary citizens unhindered and they must learn their place. Posted by: George Orwell at November 16, 2010 12:23 PM (AZGON) I'm just saying that when I see 21 million muslims gathered at Mecca for Hajj I see an opportunity.

201 There is security at Tel Aviv and all EL AL check in that you are not aware of. And IF Israeli Security thought they needed to see your junk with this device, they would do it in a heart beat and not give a rat's ass what you think.

202

"Are you willing to submit to an anal or vaginal probe prior to each flight?"

No. I'm not. If it came to that I would either not fly or I would accept the risk that my plane might blow up. I don't consider a pat down search to be the same as an anal probe, nor am I terribly concerned that a scanner image might let a stranger see a shadow of my pee pee.

When we were doing escort missions in Iraq, taking busloads of Iraqi police recruits to to Baghdad to attend their police academy, you better believe we did a thourough search of their persons and their belongings before they ever set foot on the bus. We did not have any advanced tech stuff, so it was all done by hand, and everybody's junk got checked. Not a very pleasant way to spend a morning, but we never had a bus blow up either.

As for Shoey's platitudes, they sound like typical blather from somebody who's security has always been ensured by others.

203

My plan - don't let any muslims on planes.  Period.  Maybe they'll start taking a stand against terrorists themselves instead of accomodating it with their silence.

Any while you're thinking about telling me about how irrational that is, it is no more irrational than terrorizing a three year old to make a 'not guilty of profiling' bullshit point.

204 Boycott air flight.  The fuckers will fold in 30 days.

205 And obviously, I meant to say that the former (invasive security) is also weak.

206 Again TOP FALLACY - that the choice is invasive or weak security. BOTH ARE WEAK. Again, why muddy the waters with logic and common sense? We have 67000 federal workers to unionize and they'll need cushy pensions, too.

207
We should all get microchips (made in China, of course) implanted in our heads!

208 We should all get microchips (made in China, of course) implanted in our heads! Posted by: Senator Soothsayer (R-AoS) at November 16, 2010 12:32 PM (uFokq) What makes you think you don't?

209
^{We should all get microchips (made in China, of course) implanted in our heads!}

^{Posted by: Senator Soothsayer (R-AoS) at November 16, 2010 12:32 PM (uFokq)}

Which head?

210 DJIA 11,008.22 -193.75

211 BREAKING: Ethics committee finds Rangel guilty CNN

212 I don't attribute ideas to bureaucracies, but for a moment here, let's pretend the TSA had one.

Profiling can't be official or evident policy, because the government is beholden to organized pressure groups, not to the citizenry. But profiling (of a sort) works, as well as anything can, to stop shitty terrorist plots. (Non-shitty ones are unstoppable—except by accident.) And the TSA needs to stop some plots to survive. So, how would the TSA implement profiling without implementing profiling?

Outsource it to the passengers by making them pissed off at other passengers who fit the profile—the indirect but visible and present cause of their being wastefully and cruelly mistreated on their way onto the plane. Inflame passenger vengefulness, and put it to use—and punish it (e.g., the flying imams case), to maintain deniability.

That is what happens. And if that's a plan, it's a brilliant plan.

213 Ace, if it makes you feel better, we can have cups of pudding at the secondary search areas.  After we tickle your grapes, you can dip them and remember the elation of the 2010 mid-terms.

214
This is coming from the same admin that is SUING ARIZONA for checking immigration status for only those people they have probable cause for detaining in the first place.

The TSA has no probable cause to scan/pat everyone they feel like.

215 Really, TSA and Govt idiots can't we at least agree that its unlikely that the muzzies are going to convert 80-year old great grandmas of american heritage to blow up planes.  Or soccer moms and their children on the way to disneyland.  How about calling it non-profile profiling if you want to be politcally correct?

This "random choosing" is stupid.  BTW, you can ask your ticket agent to de-select children if they have been randomly chosen.  How stupid is that if you think randomly selecting is some panacea?

216

So what does being found guilty on 11 out of 13 ethics violations get Rangel?

A very public, 'don't do that again, okay?' censure?

217 Getting rid of Muslims whether thru genocide, re-education camps, or eugenics would be a progressive, lefty approach. We need an approach that encourages Muslims to fix their own problems - how about no Muslims can fly until their societies have matured to the point where they can actually build and maintain an airliner. It would require radical change in education, law, financing, and business practices -- by that time, maybe they can take out their own radical trash.

218 Rangel will get a sternly worded letter placed in his file.

219 This is coming from the same admin that is SUING ARIZONA for checking immigration status for only those people they have probable cause for detaining in the first place. It's too expensive to put terahertz body scanners in every squad car. Besides, feeling up Latinos outside Home Depot isn't all that exciting.

220
If you remember, Obama's (silly and false strawman) objection to AZ's 1070 law was that it was wrong to 'ask for people's papers as if we were living Nazi Germany.


But the TSA can tickle my ballbag as if I was Al Qaeda.

221 I just don't think the scanner is that big of deal.

Some of us think being seen naked by unknown persons is an issue. Others think that having naked pictures taken of them is an issue. Whether you think it is a big deal or not does not diminish the fact that it is reasonable to say that being stripped naked either electronically, or by groping, is an unacceptable loss of privacy. Especially when more effective methods of screening are available.

222 Obama's (silly and false strawman) objection to AZ's 1070 law was that it was wrong to 'ask for people's papers as if we were living Nazi Germany. But the TSA can tickle my ballbag as if I was Al Qaeda. It's as if we live in the world of Bizarro Superman.

223 I just don't think the scanner is that big of deal. Some of us think being seen naked by unknown persons is an issue. Others think that having naked pictures taken of them is an issue. Whether you think it is a big deal or not does not diminish the fact that it is reasonable to say that being stripped naked either electronically, or by groping, is an unacceptable loss of privacy. Especially when more effective methods of screening are available. Posted by: MikeTheMoose at November 16, 2010 12:37 PM (0q2P7) Well if your not going to Profile and keep an up to date data base of scumbags, I don't see how?

224
What's next, the TSA gonna start sniffing boxes for tnt residue?

225 If we just send pictures beforehand, can we get thru security faster?

226 Some of us think being seen naked by unknown persons is an issue. Others think that having naked pictures taken of them is an issue. Whether you think it is a big deal or not does not diminish the fact that it is reasonable to say that being stripped naked either electronically, or by groping, is an unacceptable loss of privacy. Especially when more effective methods of screening are available.

Posted by: MikeTheMoose at November 16, 2010 12:37 PM (0q2P7)

Whatever, going down in flames in an airliner is an issue with me.

I already said if there is an alternative I'm good with that as well.

227 Give it back to the airlines, where some intelligence can be put back into the risk assessment. I do most of my flying out of Love Field. NO ONE is going to turn one of those planes into a weapon. None of them are bigger than a 737, and few of them even have a full fuel load then. (No point in using fuel to carry even more fuel back and forth between Dallas and Houston.) Why does LUV need the exact same gestapo routine as say, Reagan, where you have 747s with full fuel loads in the air over the capital? (And that's assuming that the gestapo routine actually works, which, of course, terrorist after terrorist proves doesn't.)

228 There is some evidence that the backscatter scanners are harmful, especially if exposed alot.  I see pilots, stewardesses, people who work at the concourse food places, etc having class action lawsuits in the future.  Prego women obviously shouldn't go through those things.

229 they really know how to handle a 3 year old. http://preview.tinyurl.com/3a85vdn

230 The scanner is a big deal. It is already abused, in the first place, to enjoy views of lovely young women. They lied about images, storage of images, and its universal application. Passengers are still selected, and coincidentally tend to be those either less able or likely to refuse (soldiers, elderly) or pretty, pretty girls. The ionizing radiation, while not a large dose, is not as safe as advertised, and for some persons presents, rather than unknown risk, predictable risk. Persons at risk of skin cancer should not enter it. Understand that machine error or poor calibration or operator error could result in a much larger dose than advertised. Everyone also knows that even if images are not officially stored, they can be captured, with any number of discreet image capturing devices. It's bad enough that low-minded goons feel entitled to comment to each other on the images viewed or to congratulate each other on the "cutie" that just flashed on the screen. There has already been a determined policy of harassment of persons who opt opt out, to encourage low resistance to the scanners. Lecturing, hectoring, making grabs aggressive and conspicuous and visible by other passengers. (That is reprehensible and unconscionable and Napolitano should be fired based on that alone.) Universal warrantless searches of a persons unclothed form and/or most private areas provides no security that justifies it, when there are more effective alternatives which could be obtained at similar cost.

231 Profiling makes sense.  Everything short of that is PC bullshit that will eventually get people killed.  Time to put these fucker's feet to the fire and get this going in the right direction.

232 220 Rangel will get a sternly worded letter placed in his file.

With a "public rebuke" less stern than what Joe Wilson received. 

And in two years from now, Rangel will be comfortably reelected to office by NY's 15th District.

233
Remember that? The Left had a great ol' time mocking Jan Brewer.

They kept repeating, "Show me your papers," as if it was akin to being hauled off in a boxcar.

234 Posted by: Jean at November 16, 2010 12:35 PM (aemFw) The muslims won't fix their problems. They've had a couple centuries. And isn't genocide. We didn't call it genocide when we killed Nazis. We killed the enemy we were at war with and we didn't stop until the Nazi bastards and their evil totalitarian ideology was destroyed. Muslims don't kill people because of some socio-economic cockamamie leftist fantasy. They kill because their God tells them we are infidels and must be killed. As long as they are muslim they will be dead set on killing us. It's the only guaranteed way to gain entry into heaven for muslims. So stop with the silliness. We are at war. This isn't some disenfranchised ethnic minority I'm suggesting be exterminated for political gain or out of hate. This is a tidal wave of islamofacism that would see you dead or enslaved. A real and grave threat. We are at war and it's time to act like it.

235

The revolt against these TSA policies is going to bite Bammy hard, and could even destroy him, when folks realize how the bungling of his administration in the WOT has led to the necessity for this.  At least according to AJ Strata.

The point AJ makes at the link isn't that we don't need to do these things in our present situation, but that the bungling of the Obama adminstration when it fisrt took office, and believed its own propaganda that terrorism would go away when Bush went away, has put us in the present situation of ignorance about the location and capabilities of AQ.

236 Dunno if it's been said in the comments yet, but FUCK CAIR.

I sort of said it. My view is that you reach a saturation point with lawsuits.

237
But you go to the airport and it's a govt hack employee demanding, "Show me your tits."

238 The panel's chairwoman, California Democratic Rep. Zoe Lofgren said the committee rolled two charges together, meaning that Rangel was ultimately charged with 12, not 13 charges as originally stated. She added the committee was split on one of the remaining 12 counts-- a charge of harming the credibility of Congress.

Harming the credibility of congress is like raping unicorns, it can't be done because there are no unicorns and congress has no credibility.

239 two years from now, Rangel will be comfortably reelected to office by NY's 15th District. Hell, he will somehow manage to get a raise too.

240 Whatever, going down in flames in an airliner is an issue with me. Okay, so where does it stop? We're tossing out the 4th amendment at the airport because you're peeing your pants like a liberal over the the 1:10^8 chance that someone might blow the plane up. How about we throw out the rest of the 4th? Send a squad over to your house every couple of days to make sure that you aren't building bombs in your spare time? Toss out the 5th and bring you in for a trial every so often, just to make sure? How about we get rid of the 3rd and drop a TSA agent in your spare bedroom? Toss the 2nd, since, you know, you might carry one of those guns to the airport. The line has to be somewhere. All the polls show that this is the line.

241 All the polls show that this is the line. Posted by: Phelps at November 16, 2010 12:43 PM (sj2xb) EL AL and Israeli security don't take any freaken polls about how they should handle security.

242 Line in the sand time.

243

Well, a Republican Congress and President COULD pass a law madating Israeli style profiling at all airports. They COULD remove the federal courts' jurisdiction over the entire subject. It's the Constitution. It can be done.

No lawsuits because the courts could not hear them.

244 TSA to investigate body scan resister. 
Oceanside man took a stand against security, went viral. 
TSA threatened the $10,000. fine and are taking measures to prosecute. Given the Judicial Branch policy to conduct cases via prosecutorial misconduct, from fabricating evidence to enforcing "social(ist) justice".

The point is, this man followed TSA directions and proved there's no such thing as opting out without immensely negative consequences to your life. Once you begin to enter airport security, your ass is theirs. Change your mind about using your ticket? Go figure when TSA officials say that you're free to go home.

Bring out the dogs, and prohibit TSA agents handling any person's body without the dog alert to that person in line passing through a metal detector.   

Think again about being accosted by TSA in order to attend a funeral, for instance. Globalist business has already dispersed families around the world for employment. Choosing to drive on vacation rather than flight is hardly a reasonable solution for every circumstance necessitating a flight.

Consider all of those business travelers. Telecommuting and teleconferencing seems to be the oncoming  business way, as though any of those communications are "private" or secure from piracy.

245 Want to go all the way safe: 1) Off airport check in with interviews, scanning, dogs (scheduled by flight, versus a surge of humanity in a line) 2) You wear airline distributed flight suits - changing room is observed 3) No carry on, none, need something - email it or request it. 3) All luggage goes as cargo on separate flights, UPS/FedEx delivers it on the other end 4) Secure bus to airport 5) Secondary screening at airport, by the flight crew or security persons who will be on your flight 6) Actual flight times are randomized 7) Have a nice flight, enjoy your complimentary flight suit with integrated booties

246 Well if your not going to Profile and keep an up to date data base of scumbags, I don't see how?

The government will not make the tough choice until we MAKE them. This is unacceptable. They need to know that. Maybe when they CAN'T do this because we won't let them, they will adopt a real solution out of necessity. But as personal invasion proves progressively ineffective, they will progressively escalate it. It can't work in the long run, and will only result in further invasive, privacy violating search techniques.

Tomorrow, it will be you getting a cavity probe, the next day your kid. Either make peace with that, or, draw a line and make them go in a different direction. No naked pics of me/groping my junk is a good place to draw a line.

247 1, private companies will not impose Israeli-type security provisions either; they will immediately be sued out of existence by CAIR for taking special notice of Muslim passengers. The government is the only organization big enough to withstand such suits, but of course it never would do anything that is so politically incorrect.

Can't the government ban "profiling" lawsuits? Specifically put them out of the purview of the judicial branch.

248 Can't the government ban "profiling" lawsuits? Specifically put them out of the purview of the judicial branch. Posted by: 18-1 at November 16, 2010 12:49 PM (7BU4a) Obama's Justice Department?

249 There is only one solution.... PROFILE THE HELL OUT OF THE PASSENGERS.  The Mohammedan Conquest Society (a/k/a CAIR) can sue for discrimination if they wish, but Supreme Court decisions have made it fairly plain that discrimination is illegal only when there is no logical compelling reason for it.  In this case, all air-related terrorists incidents from the Lockerbie Bombing to Mohammed Atta's Crazy Suicide Commandos on 9/11 to the shoe bombings and underwear bombings have been committed by the adherents of one, and only one religion.  No Buddhists, no Christians, no Shintoists, no Jews, no Theosophists involved.  Patterns of behavior while in the terminal are also good indicators of fondness of explosive devices.

Turning airline terminals into non-voluntary sex clubs is not the answer.

250 Well, at least one flight to Boston was secure on Saturday.  My husband travelled with his folks to a memorial service, and my libtard m-i-l had a pocket knife removed from her purse (I'm still gob-smacked the old biddy was carrying a knife of any kind.  Military and weapons:  Bad!).

Posted by: Jane D'oh at November 16, 2010 11:49 AM (UOM4

Its not that surprising Jane. For most liberals, rules are for other people to follow. I'm only surprised there wasn't a revolver in there too.

251

If you have a better alternative I am all for it. If you don't want any security and just want to roll the dice I'll make that dicision on what I think my odds are.

I just don't think the scanner is that big of deal.

Posted by: robtr

Yeah, i do. Hire professionals. Don't hire thugs with criminal records. Don't lie about the ability of the scanners to store and transmit images. There's a start.

1993: I was in Portadown, in Northern Ireland. At that time, there was an IRA bombing campaign in full swing. I took a local train. On an open platorm, I was stopped and searched by a security officer who with one hand held my camera case (film) and with the other deftly checked the camera and lens to ensure that they were what they appeared to be (toner cartridge with bonus material anyone?). During this he asked quiet, polite, direct questions, and then thanked me and I went in my way.

1995: Orlando international airport. I and my family were leaving, and I asked that my camera bag be hand inspected, since I didn't want the film going through the detecter. I was told to dump the bag on the floor of the terminal. After going through a runaround for ten minutes, I walked over to one of their machines and emptied the bag on to the top of it.

 

This half assed, unprofessional attitude here pre-dates 2001. It has simply grown bigger, with fangs to match.

252 If I gotta show my tits, I want beads, dammit.

253 Give it back to the airlines, where some intelligence can be put back into the risk assessment. --Phelps

Agreed. There's no legitimate reason that the airline industry and the public should be hampered by ineffective, perverted and STOOPID PC political decisions.

254 Chicago Jedi - I put the bar so high they could never get over it as Muslims; hell they can't even build a car or decent road without help. Trust me, I know we are at war and have been for a long time -- my full sig is Jean Parisot de la Valette.

255 77 If they really want to check for explosives, why not just use dogs? They're a lot cheaper and safer than these damn machines, most people love dogs, and even if the dog is rude and accidentally sniffs your crotch you laugh it off because it's just a dog being a dog.

Posted by: Ghost of Lee Atwater at November 16, 2010 12:01 PM (JxMoP)

CAIR would sue in about 1 second. Muzzies hate dogs.

Posted by: Radioactive Satellite Of LOVE at November 16, 2010 12:03 PM (zqzYV)

Use cats. Tuna smuggling would end at once.

256

This half assed, unprofessional attitude here pre-dates 2001. It has simply grown bigger, with fangs to match. --Posted by: Blue Hen

Touché

257 How about we get rid of the 3rd and drop a TSA agent in your spare bedroom? Toss the 2nd, since, you know, you might carry one of those guns to the airport.

The line has to be somewhere. All the polls show that this is the line.

Posted by: Phelps at November 16, 2010 12:43 PM (sj2xb)

The poll I saw yesterday showed that 81% were in favor of the scanners. Maybe you have different information transmitted to you through the fillings in your teeth.

If you a problem with airport security you have a few choices, you don't have to fly or you can lobby to change it.

If you believe it's a violation of the 4th amendment then you can hire a fucking lawyer and see if the 4th amendment covers your right to fly on an airliner.

I will continue to do whatever I want to do, joining you in your hissy fit won't be one of them.

258 Muzzies hate dogs. So I guess cute little pot bellied pigs are out as well.

259 If they really want to check for explosives, why not just use dogs?
CAIR would sue in about 1 second. Muzzies hate dogs.


Use an explosive sniffing pig as your primary. Pig's have a better sense of smell anyway. Use the dog as the opt out. That way it looks like the good deal.

260 CAIR would sue in about 1 second. Muzzies hate dogs.

Hence, airlines AND the government should take the initiative. Sue CAIR and the ACLU for making unrealistic and unsafe demands from the public, business and government.

261 Posted by: Jean at November 16, 2010 12:54 PM (7Jipo) I totally understand. One prodlem though. We don't have time to await that sort of evolution in the muslim world. The barbarians are literally at the gates. And I'm not sure islam can civilize itself. There is no central leader or authority. All of the major branches of islam support jihad. And western civilization coddles or supports their violence. At the very least they reward it. There is also no sense of independence. It's all submission in islam. I'm Catholic. If the Pope came out in 2012 and told me to vote for Obama I'd tell him what he could do to himself and the horse he rode in on. If the muslims raise a caliph even the most modern and moderate of muslims will kneel no matter how hateful and evil the caliph is. Islam is religion of hate and tyranny. I'm not sure how you civilize evil.

262 The 300 people will blow up for the usual reason - the "big" issues of security failed. OBVIOUS red flags will have been ignored, in favor of relatively useless measures to counter that "DETERMINED ENEMY" which apparently Janet Napolitano is loathe to actually name. I'm not inclined to given up reasonable security in my papers and person for NO good reason, especially when it gets in the way and sucks up resources from identifying real threats, and covers the butts of persons like Napolitano who have failed at their jobs.

263

Whatever, going down in flames in an airliner is an issue with me.

I already said if there is an alternative I'm good with that as well.

Posted by: robtr



Stop with the fucking false dichotomy already robtr. 

The choice is not "3 year olds get groped or a plane WILL go down in a fiery ball"

Use the puffers.  But then Chertoff wouldn't get his kickbacks, right?

You sniveling toady.

264 Can't the government ban "profiling" lawsuits? Specifically put them out of the purview of the judicial branch.

You can try, but you underestimate the power of courts to insert themselves into any controversy.
Judges are like gods unto us, don't you know.

265 228 Robtr "Whatever, going down in flames in an airliner is an issue with me." You seem to have some notion that the backscatter scan or groin and breast grabs are making that less likely to happen. In fact the opposite is the case. Resources are wasted on the universal searches of average passengers, and opportunities for diversion terrorists can exploit are created. You are LESS secure, not more so, with the screening methods in place, and have given up access to your naked form and your genitals for the price of a ticket for routine travel.

266 The poll I saw yesterday showed that 81% were in favor of the scanners. Maybe you have different information transmitted to you through the fillings in your teeth.

the latest CBS and Bill Maher polls show most Americans "are like dogs..."

how's that leash treating you?

267 When the gropers get to your groin, lean into their hand and wiggle, then say, "Thanks, man. My herpes is itchin' like a motherfucker today." Be sure to video the reaction so all may enjoy.

268 the latest CBS and Bill Maher polls show most Americans "are like dogs..."

how's that leash treating you?

Posted by: j2 at November 16, 2010 01:12 PM (DCdSz)

Heh, you squishes like to get personal when someone doesn't group think with you. You could moonlight at DU or Thinkprogress. They don't tolerate disension in the ranks either.

I still don't have a problem with the scanner, if you dofeel free to do something about it. I am not doing it for you.

269 I strongly believe that when TSAtards start getting the holy hell beaten out of them by angry fliers, the situation will rectify itself.

Or ridiculous security will be added for the TSAtards.  At which point, airline traffic flatlines.

Sigh.  What to do, with the fiddy-too...

270 45 There is an answer. 1) Use non-invasive bomb detection devices. 2) All cockpits must be locked for the entire flight and the pilots must be armed. 3) Allow conceal-carry on the plane as long as passengers use frangible ammunition.

Posted by: Chicago Jedi at November 16, 2010 11:52 AM (WZFkG)

4) Deny muslims the 'privilege' of flying.

271 anyone ever wonder about the pieces of crap security officers at tsa?
who are they?
what's their background?
training?
http://tinyurl.com/2439ech (tsa officers arrested)(tons of examples)

i have traveled a lot... i've talked to many of these assholes officers. many are foreign nationals... weird... heh

pedophile playground - apply now (robt already has)
http://tinyurl.com/ekotc

272

10 Issue every able passenger a gun. End of problem. /sarc off

Holes in plane=bad.

Actually, Boeing planes are made to be able to handle the equivalent of two passanger windows open at any altitude.  The old movie secenario of sucking everyone out because of a bullet hole is a myth - or so says Boeing!

273 "TSA's Hiring Practices to Be Probed"

274 http://tinyurl.com/23tgj9f

275 My understanding is that the new scanners are used as part of a random search.

We already know that the new scanners are failures; they stop at the skin. Some years ago, a Saudi Royal was almost scored by an assassin  using a butt-plug bomb; completely undetectable.  We should have never wasted the several hundreds of millions of dollars buying these scanners.

The problem is that "problems" aren't randomly distributed throughout the passenger population. Since October 2001, potentially millions of passengers have been searched; what are the results?  What are the profiles of these passengers?

The evidence is strongly indicative of certain groups not, ever, being problems, and other groups, well, NOT "not ever" being problems.

It looks like an Israeli-style system is needed.  More dogs, corrected security procedures, fixed inter-agency communications.

We need to get over the fear of lawsuits.  Yes, they're expensive, and the outcome is never guaranteed to be as we wish.  But CAIR has successfully using the merely the threat of lawfare to scare us into doing as they require.

We already know that CAIR fears discovery, like dogs fear guns, and we're reasonably certain that they have plenty to hide.  What they have to hide could get them prison time and/or speedy deportations.

For future reference: video every event.

A cameraphone seems to have solved the San Diego event. The TSA is talking big, but they will likely sweep everything under the rug by this time next week.  If several other people had also videoed the event, then the TSA would likely be apologizing now.

Had someone videoed the Flying Imams, those fools would likely be doing time now, or be living somewhere not in the US.

276
At least until the next plane blows up (and it will blow up) and 300 people die.

Sooner or later, they're going to attack the check points. Will it kill 300? probably not. But it will be flashy, and they're all about the flashy. And it'll make an already nervous public even less confident in the TSA.

277 Opt out of the body scan. Backscatter xrays may not be as safe as Big Sis would like you to think: http://tinyurl.com/2cvf7fb I'm flying tomorrow out of Vegas. If the TSA goon tells me to go into the xray machine, I will say, "I opt out of that. Please arrange to have me groped by a uniformed TSA professional in blatant violation of my 4th Amendment rights." And I will bite my tongue and try to quell the rage inside as some dimwit rubs on my johnson in the name of safety. For now. Because I need to get home. But I won't stand for this shit for long.

278 I expect to be seeing a sharp increase in pre-op muslim trannys in hijabs at the airport.  All those minority points should trump just about anything.

279 Now I'm thinking of the peanut butter 'down there'.

280 Here's a good scenario to ask TPTB in the TSA about:
will an Arab or other male of middle-eastern extraction submit to the pat-down or even the body scan or will TSA staff let them pass unmolested out of "respect" (fear) of their beliefs?

281 I forgot to add "by a woman"

282 Next step is to do a complete physical at the airport, the results of which are sent to your doctor and HHS, it's for your own good.

283 Stop flying and let the airlines go under. It's not like we aren't generally boned anyway. But then I'm a tad pessimistic living in the thoroughly fucked PRC.

284 While I don't think the x-ray backscatter scanners are an effective means of detecting and stopping muzzie airline bombers, the radiation dose you get from being scanned is typically smaller by a factor of several orders of magnitude than the radiation exposure you receive during a multi-hour flight. Additionally, you're exposed to nastier things than high energy photons during flight.

285 Stop flying and let the airlines go under.

I totally stopped flying years ago. My last flight was from Florence, SC to Pittsburgh, PA (and back). It was a total hassle and this was before 9-11. It actually took longer to fly there than I could have driven and that didn't count the 1 hour drive to get to the Florence airport.

With all the crap going down now it just ain't worth it. I have come to the conclusion that I will drive any trip that takes under 12 hours to drive. If it takes more than 12 hours to drive it I just will not go.

286 I'm just bummed that you get same-sex TSA screeners, and that you can't pick the cutest one. It'd increase air travel 5000% if they changed that part of the policy -- pervs would book flights back and forth between cities just for the security screeners.

287

Bottom line is that if you want to ride on somebodies plane you can do what they want you to do or not fly on it.

Posted by: robtr at November 16, 2010 12:18 PM (hVDig)

Correction, you do what the government tells you to do.  Does the government own the plane?  Does the TSA work for SouthWest?

Is your inane stupid comment now clearly idiotic enough for you to see the problem?

Probably not.

288 Nmhick: key point, the scanner radiation is additional, and unnecessary exposure. it's not safe, or risk free at all. Perhaps that risk is de minimis for a once in a blue moon traveler, but not for frequent flyers, and some other more vulnerable than average persons. That's at the advertised dose. Do not rely on that. Machine error, or operator error could result in a much higher dose. These machines are unlikely to remain perfectly calibrated, if they are now, and can be set to higher levels, the dose could be changed in error or on purpose without notice to you.

289 Y'all prolly don't know that Dubya and our ol' pal Karl Rove campaigned against and then ELIMINATED passenger profiling in airports a few months before 9/11. READ HERE How do you like Bush now? No, really..miss him yet? How about no? k thx bye

290 290 Nmhick: key point, the scanner radiation is additional, and unnecessary exposure. it's not safe, or risk free at all.

Sarahw, you missed my point, or you have a greater fear of photons than I do.

Changing your diet to include less food containing K-40 would probably have more of an effect on your annual dose of radiation than skipping the full body scanner, as would removing granite countertops from your kitchen if it is so equipped. A change in the altitude of any flight you take or a change in the duration of a flight by ±10 minutes would outweigh the effect of the radiation your body receives from a properly calibrated full-body scanner.

I receive about double the annual dose of background radiation as someone living at sea level simply because my home is located at an elevation about 7,600 ft. above sea level. Add some more to my annual dose because there's a lot of decomposed granite in my area.

I don't know what the risk of receiving substantial excess radiation from an improperly adjusted full body scanner might be, but I am willing to bet that insofar as x-ray sources are yet another government dictated, monitored and controlled category of devices, their output is more likely than not to be adjusted within the specified limits.

My point is that the various sources of radiation in your daily environment have far more impact on the annual dose of ionizing radiation your body receives than you are ever likely to receive from the full body scans you might undergo during your annual travels.

291 Before we go any farther down these avenues of prevention, I believe we must exploit the powers of deterrence to the maximum. We should do in airline travel as the Indonesian pirates do: make it plain to every air traveler that if you eff with the plane or passengers, we will:
1. Round up all your living relatives.
2. Sell any merchantable ones into lifelong sexual slavery.
3. Very slowly and painfully kill all the others one by one in full view of the rest.
4. Point out the very obvious benefits of self-policing.
That should do the trick, and the rest of us will be able to pay for a ticket with cash at the last minute and board barefoot with no luggage, and no searches, as in the good old days.

292 There are some scattered comments regarding the security procedures in place for El Al, there's a major issue that few have addressed; the huge increase in staffing and cost. Here's the problem:

El Al has about 40 planes.

Total. Just. 40.

And they handle (by a quick search) around 3 million pax a year.

There are about 25 US carriers, with 7000 planes in the air at any one time.

293 @293
Forgot to add:
Disinter all your identified dead relatives and pay a dedicated cadre of ex-TSA screeners (nominally: the best will volunteer) to skull-eff the corpses, with bacon grease the sole lubricant.

294 The problem with all this crap they are doing is they offer "opt-outs" for certain people.  For example, 3oz of liquid to avoid liquid explosive bombs (ignoring the fact that top chemists have shown such a bomb is essentially unmakeable onboard an aircraft)...but quarts of fluid if you call it baby formula or saline solution for contacts.  No tennis rackets or pool cues...but a cane if you have a "knee problem"  Patdowns to find underwear bombs...unless you're a Muslim woman.
See what I'm saying?  If all the terrorists have to do is avoid the "security procedure" is take one of the acceptable opt-outs, then the whole thing is kabuki.
What's infuriating is these TSA goons have an insane amount of authority and no accountability.  And like any other "small people" who get that sort of power, instantaneous abuse follows.  They KNOW you don't want to miss your flight, so you'll cave to damn near any request, and ignore abuses of power.  Because god help you if you so much as utter a squeak of complaint.  They don't respond reasonably--they go from 0-60 in 0.5 seconds. 
My TSA story.  I dive a rebreather, a kind of scuba gear that uses a CO2 scrubber to extend the time you can dive by recycling your exhaled breath. The material used in the scrubber is harmless while granules.  The TSA rules used to say you could carry it on board a flight if you had unopened containers, attached a MSDS, and declare it so the containers can be tested for explosives.  (This is no longer true, but was last time I flew with some.)  I made several flights without significant incident (thanks to carrying a printout of the TSA web page discussing this).  Then at SFO, this guy said I couldn't take it.  "Why?"  "Because I say so."  So I asked for a supervisor.  It took almost 30 minutes for one to show up.  He didn't talk to me or look at anything, just spoke to the agent and then left.  I was then told that he would be allowed to "use his own initiative," and that was "You're not taking that stuff on MY airplane."  Your airplane?  But that's how these guys think.  Once he'd made up his mind, he wasn't about to change it and look like he screwed up, despite all evidence to the contrary.
I might also add that I once accidentally left a large leatherman tool in my regulator bag, and it was missed in both SFO and Miami...then caught on Grand Cayman.  They just laughed and threw it in the contraband container.  In SFO I'd probably been arrested.

295 I'll choose door #3 -- come to the airport in a speedo.  I can quickly drop trow, or come in a trench coat and flash those poor people in the area with my speedo.  Not a big deal -- I used to be a swimmer and literally lived in my speedo the whole summer at the home swimming pool. 

296 "77 If they really want to check for explosives, why not just use dogs?" Dogs don't vote Democrat, pay union dues, file discrimination lawsuits, or use Obamacare.

297 ayten kocasinin yaragini içine alýp sertce porno izle meltem ve yelize hadi türk seks sakso çekmiþlerdi bende ýsrar edince tamam ama yavaþ olucak ve sadece arkadan yapýcaksýn dedi bnse tamm dedim ve bunlar türk sex soyundu zehrayý býrakýp türk pornomelteme geçtim bu ara aslý iþini biliyor kameraya porno video ufacýk kalçalrýný tutup yaragýmý götune yavaþça soktum bendeporno yavaþça soktum yaragý kökune kadar soktum meltem sex video nolur çok acýyo diyordu bense artýk çileden çýkmýþtým ve baþladým köküne kadar sokup çýkarýyordum meltem kendini ileri atýyor