1 Obama should produce it.  I had to produce mine to get into Little League baseball, I don't think it is too much to ask for Obama to produce his to prove his qualification for the most powerful job on the planet.

I think Obama probably was born in Hawaii, but I also believe that something on the FULL birth certificate will conflict with the public story he has concocted of his personal history.  We have a right to know the real facts.

2 I don't think it goes that far. One doesn't need to believe any particular thing to stand for the proposition that given the Constitution only lays out two (?) prerequisites for assuming the most powerful office on earth -- age of 35 or older and "natural born" citizenship -- any candidate contending for that office should have the burden, without a lot of arguing about it, of proving his qualifications.

That's roughly my position.  I don't have reason to  believe there are any shenanigans about where Obama was born so much as there's something embarrassing (such as someone else listed as the father).  But I also don't think it's asking too freaking much that candidates for office prove their eligibility.  Hell, the signatures on petitions get checked, this should be too even if it is a formality. 

I am deeply troubled by the court rulings that appear to hold that no one has the standing to enforce the Constitutional requirements for office.  Yeah, I see no way that can go wrong.

There's a tiny bit of me that thinks the American public would be ecstatic if Obama turned out not to be a natural born citizen because hey do over! 

3 C'mon Ace. It's like saying, "I'm not saying that fire can't melt steel, but I'm asking questions."

4 Ever noticed how focused the State Media is on birtherism, but how uninterested they are in trooferism?

Based on the numbers, where a third of Democrats believe the US government and/or the Jews were really behind 9/11, there are one hundred troofers in Congress right now.

5
meh, I'd rather he run on the issues the way Scott Brown did.

Actually, I'd rather see J.D. run for his old seat because he's not gonna win the primary.

6 Anyone running for POTUS should have to provide their birth certificate to the Nation Archive to be put on display for the length of the campaign and their term of office, if elected.

7 "any candidate contending for that office should have the burden, without a lot of arguing about it, of proving his qualifications."

That comment is raaaaacist. HATER!!!!

8
Also, I never really thought "Birtherism" was as toxic an issue as some believe...

Really, brah? That's not the impression I got when you wrote that people should just shut the fuck up about it because it makes us look like Truthers.

9 C'mon Ace. It's like saying, "I'm not saying that fire can't melt steel, but I'm asking questions."

Posted by: lorien1973 at January 27, 2010 01:54 PM (IhQuA)

Hmm...how many Democrats have publicly rebuked Rosie O'Donell?

10 Deakin...

Why not bug the left about the certificate...No downside.

Bush was Rathergated

11
Right about now if I had a choice between seeing his birth certificate or his college transcripts,I'd choose the transcripts if not just for the laugh factor when lefties discover that George Bush had a higher GPA

12
Also, J.D. needs to regrow the 'stache.

13 Oh for fuck sake. Thanks, JD, for confirming every leftist's cherished stereotype of conservatives as retarded helmet-haired used car salesmen in polyester spouting John Birch conspiracies.

14

Ken Royall nails it:  You can't get into little league without showing your BC, but this douche can be president without doing so?

Similarly, I have to show a transcript of my grades to get any decent lawyering job, but this douche can be president without anyone knowing he was really a C- student?

 

15 This does not seem too complicated to me.  While it doesn't seem to be a particularly strong avenue of attack against Toonces effort-vs-reward wise, it is valid and Constitutionally imperative.

16 I've been pissed about it since the subject came up.  Not because I doubt he was born a US citizen but for the principle of the thing.  I have to produce a birth certificate PLUS two other forms of ID to renew my freaking drivers license.  That lovely little law passed shortly after the events of 911.  It seems fair enough to me that if I have to show proof of residency to get a drivers license, anybody wanting to run for office, any office, should have to show proof that they meet the legal requirements for the job.

They wouldn't even have to do it publicly, though they should.  Simply submitting the appropriate paperwork to the Supreme Court for the presidency and to an appropriate committee for members of congress would be enough.

17 Bush had to open up all his ANG records because of people asking 'questions'.  I don't see why Bambi cannot.

18
One more thing...

Did Barack Obama even register with Selective Service?

19 I don't think Hayworth's a 'birther' just because he's asking Barack Obama for the prequisite proof that he could use to disprove the birthers all at once. As for Hayworth himself, I think it's justifiable to ask for Obama's birth certificate... hear me out... I got a job Nov 2009 working at a pretty good place to get one in a recession. A full time job with benefits. Mind you, they had a requirement that I show certain forms of ID to prove you were eligible to work in the US. Reasonable request? I think so. Did this requirement come from the company? No... it 's a federally mandated requirement. In other words, the US government--which Obama's in charge of now--asked me to prove I was eligible. So I produce my accepted forms of ID (and mind you, they had to be certain forms of ID) and proved to the company, the State of Utah, and the US of A that I'm a US Citizen. Fair enough. Now let's look at Obama. His government asks every worker who finds a job in the US of A to produce certain forms of ID in order to prove their work eligibility... then he runs for office and produces only a 'certificate of live birth'. A certificate of live birth would do nothing for me to prove my citizenship. It wasn't on the list of certain forms of ID accepted by the government. To put it this way, it's like Obama showing up to work without filling out his I-9... he won't be allowed to work there for long... So I ask myself: what gives the president the right not to cough up a reasonable document to prove he's a natural born citizen? A prime requirement for being the president of the US. Especially since I was asked to prove my citizenship, and not just with any bunch of documents mind you--specific forms of ID. I agree with Hayworth: everyone who works in America is required by the federal government to prove work eligibility. Isn't it time Obama proved his?

20 C'mon Ace. It's like saying, "I'm not saying that fire can't melt steel, but I'm asking questions."

Posted by: lorien1973 at January 27, 2010 01:54 PM (IhQuA)

No it isn't, that's overplaying it. It's more along the lines of rules are supposed to apply to everybody. The media doesn't get to be the surrogate on this.

This will not hurt him overall and I think it will help in the primary.

I don't really think his main purpose in saying this is the BC anyway.

I think it's more to call to mind what a lame candidate McCain was for President.

Not attacking or fighting enough. Hayworth wants to show he's a fighter, not just an over the hill maverick.

21 18-1 at January 27, 2010 01:57 PM (7BU4a)

They don't have to. You don't go exclaiming "Fire can't melt steel." and then claim "I'm not a truther."

It just doesn't work.

22 I think it's assholery for Obama not to produce it.  It indicates his lack of respect for the electorate.  I think he was born in Hawaii and I would be truly shocked if he weren't.

But, in modern America, we don't get to use common sense on these kinds of things anymore.  You can't say "He looks 21" and give him alcohol.  Everyone must be carded.

You have to prove your existence in the most absurd situations.  Ask the TSA where common sense comes in.

At the same time, it's water under the bridge.  America didn't need to see his ID (and I think it's symptomatic of the whole Obama enterprise, all of his biographies were autobiographies and the 52% was fine with believing what he told them.  I think pursuing this is a dead end.  You don't get to wave your wand and make this all go away.  Elections have consequences.

23

Really, brah? That's not the impression I got when you wrote that people should just shut the fuck up about it because it makes us look like Truthers.

Yes, I remember this, too.  You have tut-tutted the Birthers here all along, haven't you?

24 Yeah Palin should have supported this guy giving the media more ammo to brand her a birther and an extremist! She made the right call.

25

I bet it says Race: Caucasian.

That's why he doesn't want us to see it.

26 He always has a nice tan.

27
Oh for fuck sake. Thanks, JD, for confirming every leftist's cherished stereotype of conservatives as retarded helmet-haired used car salesmen in polyester spouting John Birch conspiracies.
Posted by: iowahawk

r u cereal, brah?

Do you really believe this, or are one of those hand-wringers who worries about giving the Democrats 'ammunition' to use against us?

28 If I was that other guy, and not a fine boutique specializing in vinegar and water feminine health-care products - I would be sputtering about how this post proves all racist rednecks are also Birthers too.

29 I think he was born in Hawaii. The problem is that the original cert points out a couple of problems.

(1) His father's religion is down as Muslim (required in Hawaii certs at the time).

(2)  m'Bonga got scholarships set aside only for foreign students.  His parents had him down as an Indonesian citizen when they lived there.  Children are not expected to be responsible for this...BUT

In cases where dual citizenship (one of them American) is available, for whatever reason, the child is required to choose one or the other between his 18 and 21st year.

I'll bet Barry didn't do this.

30

Dammit! Its an issue of "TRANSPARENCY"!

Every time some idiot: left, RINO or right, says "birther",  scream back at them (and I mean Scream!) what about the promise of "TRANSPARENCY" ???  Birth certificate, school records, legislative records, health records....all of them!

Letting the other side define the debate by calling those who want to know this phony's background, "birthers", lets the bad guys win by default!

Stop these Basta*ds in their tracks by insisting the issue is"TRANSPARENCY" every time they shoot off their mouths on this and stop being afraid of the issue.!

31
hahaha I love the 'ammo' argument

We'll never win until we stop being pussies.

32 $45 and 10 minutes on the phone to the nice lady in Nashville, TN., and 3 days delivery time was all it took to procure a copy of my birth certificate.  It ain't Rocket Science. 

I'm sure that Teh iWon - First Precedent and Magic Negro, Jugears Asshole Hussein, Keeper of Teh Skittle Shitting Unicorns of Hopenchangeyness has got a $100K+/yr. flunkie on staff that can do the phone/leg work on this, doesn't he??

33 This issue is just a waste of time. Hayworth was caught up in the Abramoff scandals, no? Unfortunately we may be stuck with McLame for some time. Perhaps Fox News went back in time and pilfered the certificate. Robert Reich wants to know.

34 I think that the more it gets talked about, the more questions it will raise about Barry.

35 Democrats?

I'm ten clicks to the right of Attila the Hun, and the Birther clown show makes me nauseous.

36 Also, I never really thought "Birtherism" was as toxic an issue as some believe....

Ok, my jaw hit my desk when I read that.  Not how I remember you reacting to it but maybe it was another co-blogger(s) that had that reaction.

37 The Only Question Is; Why did Candidate Obama provide such a badly forged document in the first place? It had so many hallmarks; 1. Datestamp ink soakthru from solvent bath (used to remove toner from someone's original authentic document) 2. Conspicuously Photoshopped security border; a. step-and-repeat pattern in border b. poor registration at transitions c. unequal margins d. lower optical density than genuine border 3. Improper placement of text vs. contemporary examples 4. Improper font kerning 5. Scattered 'toner particles' typical of solvent wash There's undoubtedly a good reason that they chose to release an obviously forged document. But no one has bothered to ask this simple question. The rest is moot. Why bother to create and release a forged document? TL

38 Who gives a shit what the left thinks? They are just throwing out the racist redneck crazy crap because he hasn't produced it. It's immature: my teenagers tell me I'm "insane" when I say be home by midnight and if it starts snowing, come home right away. I'm not going to change my correct instruction because they think I'm crazy. It just proves their inability to face reality.

39 24 Yeah Palin should have supported this guy giving the media more ammo to brand her a birther and an extremist! She made the right call.

Posted by: Dan at January 27, 2010 02:00 PM (KZraB)

Dead On Dan.

40 isn't what Matthews doing straight out of the Democrats' "new" playbook?  Not that I'm surprised.

41 Let's put it this way.

If you are a guy running for office and you believe in "lowering taxes" and "a global lizard alien conspiracy".

Which one should you focus on, if you wish to be elected? And which should you probably not mention?

42 My love for Hayworth grows. I've been 99% sure Obama was born in Hawaii all this time, but I've always been ardent that he be held to the exact same standards as every other candidate. That means birth records, school records, Indonesian records, Kenyan records, college records and papers, medical records, etc. For all we know Obama got an F in Econ and has a heart condition. We not only have a right to know, but a duty. Press on Mr. Hayworth.

43 I liked him best when he played Buzz in the Home Alone Movies.

44

I too am of the opinion that there is something embarrasing on his birth certificate, whether that is a different father, no father listed, religion listed I don't know.

But, I also would rather see his college transcripts because what I really want is proof that this guy is the "all that" we were told about over and over again by our "intellectual betters."

And, for the record, I believe his college transcripts will show that he isn't "all that" after all.

45 Yes, I remember this, too.  You have tut-tutted the Birthers here all along, haven't you?

I think there's a difference between saying rules apply to everyone and saying oh noes Obama won't release it because he's an allllliiiieeeennn (of course I'm purposefully overstating).  I don't see an inconsistency between supporting the one and critiquing the other.  ymmv.

It also seems to me that there are two discussions going on here - one is the rules apply to everyone and the other is the practical effect of having such an issue raised.  Not that one is more important than the other, they're both interesting and important.  I think, perhaps, that people are talking past each other.

46
Why is it so crazy to think Barack Obama was born in Indonesia?

His father was from where, and lived where? Obama has brothers all over the world, no?

47 If you want to agitate for records, focus on his academic records. We have SAT scores for every other president, why not him?

48

I'm ten clicks to the right of Attila the Hun, and the Birther clown show makes me nauseous.

But, but, the world is round so if you are ten clicks to the right, that makes you a leftist!! 1!eleventy1!!!

/sarc of course.

49 If Ogabe goes much below 40% approval in the most optimistic polling, Birtherism might suddenly go mainstream ;->

50 If you are a guy running for office and you believe in "lowering taxes" and "a global lizard alien conspiracy".

Which one should you focus on, if you wish to be elected? And which should you probably not mention?

Depends, are you Kodos or Kang?

51 We'll send someone back to get to the bottom of this .

52
If you are a guy running for office and you believe in "lowering taxes" and "a global lizard alien conspiracy".

Which one should you focus on, if you wish to be elected? And which should you probably not mention?

Posted by: lorien1973 at January 27, 2010 02:07 PM (IhQuA)

Are you hypothetically running in MN?

53 This is boner at January 27, 2010 02:10 PM (jVldi)

First and foremost. He has a, you know, COLB from Hawaii. The SOTU already said they aren't taking up a case on the BC issue. It's dead. It's pointless.

Secondly, it's a distraction from issues that people would agree with you on and further your agenda. That would help get people elected.

54 @ 45 I think you're right. I for one am willing to give Obama the benefit of the doubt. At the same time and in the same breath however, I also say 'trust but verify'. Is it too much to ask? Especially when the government asks this of everyone else?

55 any candidate contending for that office should have the burden, without a lot of arguing about it, of proving his qualifications.

To whom should he be proving this to?

There's no constitutional mandate that the Supreme Court or Congress or anyone accept such proof.

Should he just mail it to various people?

Surely it can't be 'the people'. I don't see how a press release would satisfy some supposed Constitutional mandate. Besides, 'the people' voted for him. Presumably that means they were satisfied he was eligible.

In the absence of someone identified by the Constitution or statute, I'm not sure who is doing this certifying.*

FTR- I think state Secretaries of State or whomever is responsible for putting candidates on ballots can demand this. The burden is on them to ask/demand it, not for him or any candidate to offer it up unbidden.

56 Rush is saying that TN doesn't have enough phone lines to handle all the calls from people trying to renew their unemployment benefits.  Government official said they are "aware of the difficulty".  

wow, bet they aren't the only state with that problem.  Wonder if 10% is the real true number?

57 "There are no Degrees of 'Transparency'.  Something is, 'Transparent',  or it isn't!"

58 #53 Yes. This is a dead end. I think you meant SCOTUS, no? People, we have much, much larger and stinkier fish to fry.

59 everyone who works in America is required by the federal government to prove work eligibility. Isn't it time Obama proved his?

THIS.

Of course, we realize the Left will react to this by revoking that whole "proof of work eligibility" thing as part of amnesty...

60
I don't see an inconsistency between supporting the one and critiquing the other.

Of course. That reminds me of something. A long time ago when I was a kid working for a contractor in the summer I knew this guy from Idaho. His name was Bob Paxton. He was the foreman. One day he said to me, "Boner," he said, "there's nothing I hate more than an ass-kisser."

61 "There are no Degrees of 'Transparency'.  Something is, 'Transparent',  or it isn't!"

Posted by: Rava at January 27, 2010 02:14 PM (ENK7J)

LMAO! 

62

My 5 year old asked me why you had to pull over when the police came up behind you. Why don't you just run away? I told him that if you run away the police think you are a really bad guy and they will chase you and get other police to chase you to see who you really are and what you did.

We asked to see his birth certificate and he ran away. Now we want to know why he ran away. Why is that so weird? It makes him look guilty.

63

Iowahawk.  Why do you let the LEFT write the rules of the game.  The MSM is going to butt fuck any Conservative no matter what. I guess you're saying that Hayworth shouldn't ask a reasonable question because LIBTARDS might make fun of it?  Who the FUCK are the LIBTARDS convincing??  Maybe Hayworth shouldn't criticize ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION because Olberman might get stiff??

FIGHT THESE MOTHERFUCKERS EVERY STEP, EVERY DAY.

 

64 George Orwell at January 27, 2010 02:14 PM (AZGON)

Yeah. SCOTUS.

65

I have a feeling that if a birth certificate were duly produced, people would start saying that it was faked.

It's not like, should some certificate be produced and show he was born in Kenya, we could "undo" Obama's term. 

66 Maybe, being a professor of Constitutional Law has its perks.  It allows you to figure out the weaknesses in the system and capitalize on them.  (if you wanted to capitalize on them which would mean you aren't concerned about honoring the democratic republic and its people)

No change in interest rates for those who care.

67 The birthers have always reminded me of the troofers.

That being said, I would like to know what kind of documentation Obama provided to whichever regulatory body is entrusted with ensuring the legitimacy of presidential candidates.  I'm not an expert on federal agencies, but I'd imagine that there is some sort of federal elections board that oversees such matters.

What standards does this agency adhere to, and did Obama meet those standards?  Did this agency comply with its own standards in this case, or were there irregularities?  These are all legitimate questions that, once answered, should lay this issue to rest for all reasonable people.

In short, what is the burden of proof as required by law, and did Obama meet that burden as determined by the duly appointed federal officials entrusted with answering that question? 

Everything else is partisan conspiracy theory bullshit.

68 To whom should he be proving this to?

That's what concerns me about the various rulings on standing.  Someone needs to verify this but who?  Practically, it could be the same office that verifies eligibility for election for other offices on the state level.  On this level, I like the idea of copy to Chief Justice of Supreme Court and a copy to the Chairman of say the Judiciary Committee.   

69 oh, come on.  A certificate of live birth is all that needs to be released to "play football"

We all know by now that the original birth certificate contains at worst something embarrassing, like a blank name for father, or some other dude's name. 

It's a needle to use when there's nothing else around, but it's not an issue that should be argued about at election time. 


Game faces, people.

70
My 2 cents:
The right would be wise to drop the silly "show me the birth certificate" thing.  It's not a winning proposition.  It's beating a dead horse.

Drop it, already.  We have bigger fish to fry.

71

I still wonder how an innocent request for documentation that the rest of us proles are required to show got transmogrified into some knuckle-dragging, spittle-flecked, John Bircher, wild-eyed demand.

I don't recall asking the question in that way.

72 "Besides, 'the people' voted for him. Presumably that means they were satisfied he was eligible."

The people that voted for this fool were satisfied that he wasn't George Bush, and that is all they gave a shit about.

73
The Republican governor of Hawaii produced it.  Good enough for me.

74

Are you hypothetically running in MN?

Or is your name Ron Paul?

75

I'm sure McCain would defend vigorously Obama if Obama was caught flying coach to Manhattan with a boxcutter in his shoe.

It's just solid Republicans that McCain hates.

76 OT, I'm like that... New iPad starts at $499

77 and saying oh noes Obama won't release it because he's an allllliiiieeeennn

Alien-human hybrid, maybe, but I'm not sure which planet's inhabitants have the jumbo ears.


He has a, you know, COLB from Hawaii.

So does his half-sister, who was born in Indonesia.

(My money has always been on "born in Hawaii, father's name is not Obama"  Eligible liar.)

78 There's no constitutional mandate that the Supreme Court or Congress or anyone accept such proof. Then maybe we should fix that with a Constitutional Congress in 2013 shortly after Obama's replacement is elected? No Constitutional Mandate my ass. If there was no constitutional mandate then why have the requirements in the constitution in the first place? Maybe the burden was on the people to eject the man out of office personally if he didn't cough up proof eh? Prove me wrong.

79 It's a lot easier for Obama to prove his citizenship than it is for Sarah Palin to spread her legs and prove Trig is her baby.

80 That being said, I would like to know what kind of documentation Obama provided to whichever regulatory body is entrusted with ensuring the legitimacy of presidential candidates.  I'm not an expert on federal agencies, but I'd imagine that there is some sort of federal elections board that oversees such matters.

I think you'll discover that there is no such thing.

81
If this nation is going to entrust the GOP, and if we want a real chance at getting rid of this horrible administration in 3 years -
It's time to FOCUS on real issues that matter.  The birth certificate nonsense is a waste of precious time and energy.

82 Thank you ACE!! You should have read the multiple fights I had with people on twitter over this stupid issue. Birtherism is nothing compared to trutherism. With the economy in the shithole, jobs not created and lost, and national security in troubling hands under Obama, birtherism is nothing. The GOP needs to stop worrying about this shit. GO JD HAYWORTH!

83 I guess I just want to know, what is the end game for everyone who demands to see the birth certificate? What is it they want to happen.

All his lazy-ass hopey-changey gullible-as-shit bandwagon pop-culture-brainwashed supporters who elected him get a flash of insight, and the whole miserable worthless cult-of-personality POTUS experience is not repeated in my lifetime.

OK, yeah, that first part will never happen.

84 Holy crap... you can plug in a keyboard to the new iPad. It comes with a birth certificate.

85 He has a, you know, COLB from Hawaii.

So does his half-sister, who was born in Indonesia.

I did NOT know that.

My money is still on embarrassing information to the bastard-god-child

86 So does his half-sister, who was born in Indonesia.

Heather,

I've heard that but has anyone ever produced it?

87

Next door to me lives an extremely agreeable wonderful bi-racial family. They have 7 sweet wonderful children. I have had the pleasure of seeing three of them come into the world. All three appeared white at birth and were significantly lighter than my part italian children. I think Obama's birth certificate said he was born caucasian. That tidbit would throw a wrench in the gears of "The first Black President."

88
tell me... what does the ipad do that's so damn special?

I was in Staples yesterday looking at those cute little netbooks. You can buy them cheap for under $200 on shmeebay. The problem with them is they come with some lame-ass Windows 7 Starter with no Microsoft Word!

89

Professor Obama's solution for Economic problems - Let's Break up and do some Groupwork!

What a fucking tool.  Proposing a bi-partisan comission to study anything is akin to putting on a puppet-show for us kiddies.  I'd call it Kabuki, but Obama has only seen the tops of his shoes when he's visiting foreign nations...I don't think he knows what Kabuki is. 

90 No Constitutional Mandate my ass. If there was no constitutional mandate then why have the requirements in the constitution in the first place?
Posted by: Chaz at January 27, 2010 02:20 PM (u3fm3)

Please show me who is empowered by the Constitution to accept and or verify it.

91 "Besides, 'the people' voted for him. Presumably that means they were satisfied he was eligible."

That is not an argument for a Constitutional Republic.  People voted for Roger Calero, too, and he isn't an American.  He does not even have US citizenship!

Further, every poll I've seen on this points to the idea that most Americans have grave doubts about The Precedent's veracity about his birth/nationality issues.  The fact is, though, that The Precedent has admitted, himself, to holding other citizenship and that obviates any natural born status he might have had.  Dual citizens are not in the class of natural born citizens.  Anyone who disagrees should understand that they are arguing for the proposition that someone holding 132 other citizenships is eligible to be President, so long as s/he was born here or to American parents, which is so insane (especially seeing that the Founders didn't even allow American dual citizens) that I don't know what to call it.

92 Hayworth is not making this the centerpiece of his campaign, he made a passing remark on the issue which was within reason.  Obama has never definitely proven his eligibility for the office he now occupies. It may sound strange but it is true.

This is also part of a larger issue, which is that there are vast periods of time in this man's past that have been deliberately concealed.  Why is that?  It is not unreasonable to ask.  It isn't like he hasn't been caught lying about his past already.  If he was an above board kind of guy the birth certificate issue wouldn't be a big deal but such is not the case. 

His entire history has been carefully manufactured by his handlers.  I have always believed there are people in Chicago and elsewhere that know things that would DEMOLISH Obama if they were inclined to share them.  Maybe as his approval tanks it makes it more likely those facts will come out.

93

Let me make it simple for you dimwits.  Obama is required to provide a authentic birth certificate proving he was born in the U.S.

 

What's the problem with that.  Why the secrecy, why the faccimile?

He told us he'd be transparent.  He isn't.  He lies about everything.

Why all the secrecy surrouding any record pertaining to Obama?

I'll wait.

94 79 He has a, you know, COLB from Hawaii. So does his half-sister, who was born in Indonesia. (My money has always been on "born in Hawaii, father's name is not Obama" Eligible liar.) Posted by: HeatherRadish at January 27, 2010 02:19 PM (mR7mk) Hence my emphasis on certain forms of ID.

95

Well, since he was never vetted in the least and we certainly see the results of that, what is the problem with ex post facto vetting?

Start with the academic records and work our way down....

He's just one quarter of the way in and he's already deep in late Carterite territory. By 2012, the Dims will be glad to get rid of him.

96 I still wonder how an innocent request for documentation that the rest of us proles are required to show got transmogrified into some knuckle-dragging, spittle-flecked, John Bircher, wild-eyed demand.

No shit. Last i checked, a person was required to be born in America in order to qualify to be it's President. Is it really unreasonable to request that the people who want to be President show proof that they're eligible? No, it's not. What is unreasonable is throwing a hissy fit when said proof is requested. What are those hissy fit throwers afraid of?

97 There's something embarrassing about Obama NOT producing a copy of his original birth certificate. Why would anyone take it on faith? Almost certain isn't ever as good as certain.

98 Hmmm, how did The Vapid One® get a drivers' license?

99 Lack of a birth certificate and college transcripts = the most transparent administration ever.

Obama should produce this thing just to shut up his critics, and that's probably exactly why he won't.  He knows its a non-issue and wants them to waste their energy on this.

100 Also, I never really thought "Birtherism" was as toxic an issue as some believe...

Really, brah? That's not the impression I got when you wrote that people should just shut the fuck up about it because it makes us look like Truthers.

I was thinking the same thing as I read this.  What gives, Ace?  I never jumped on board with the toxicity of the "birther" label.  It was given a label by the Left just so it could be mocked.  Personally, I see nothing wrong with asking that this very basic Constitutional requirement be met.  It's total balderdash that it's poo-poo'd away as some joke. 

101 102 Does he have one?

102 Let me make it simple for you dimwits.  Obama is required to provide a authentic birth certificate proving he was born in the U.S.

Posted by: gus at January 27, 2010 02:25 PM (Vqruj)

Please show me the words "authentic birth certificate" in the US Constitution.

I'll wait.

103 tell me... what does the ipad do that's so damn special? You'll have to visit apple.com and see what it does. I apologize for getting so OT... but if you like the functionality of the iPhone or iPod touch, this iPad looks like a real winner. Otherwise, it probably won't interest you, but millions are loving their iPhones.

104 Please show me who is empowered by the Constitution to accept and or verify it.

Posted by: DrewM. at January 27, 2010 02:25 PM (UAnTc)

We've been through this before, but, in lieu of a Constitutional amendment that detailed the operational definiton of 'natural born citizen' it is up to the SCOTUS to decide the operational definition.  It was obvious enough to the Founders - because they had no dual citizens and natural born Americans, to them, were people who were born American and had never been anything but American.  That definition didn't change just because our government got lazy and started allowing Americans to hold as many different citizenships as they wanted.

105

The most moronic line I've ever read on this blog.

""Besides, 'the people' voted for him. Presumably that means they were satisfied he was eligible."

Beyond stupid.  

106 #91

Interesting.

What would happen if a super-polarized state (say Idaho or Rhode Island) says that it won't list a candidate on the ballot for President until they provide proper documentation of their eligibility to hold the office (eg a birth certificate)?

107

I guess I just want to know, what is the end game for everyone who demands to see the birth certificate? What is it they want to happen. And please don't tell me that "Obama is found to be ineligible and thrown out" because that isn't going to happen.......

That is an interesting observation/question. What would be the correct course to follow if it was found that Obama was ineligible? Clearly people fear there would be riots, perhaps even a civil war. Do we then allow a fraud to stand because of the fear of upheaval? I'm not sure myself and I'm somewhat ambivalent on the whole issue, primarily because I think if there was dirt to unearth, the Clinton machine would have found it and used it. They didn't and I don't think that was because they supported Obama's victory.

But it would bother me deeply at a fundamental level if a fraudulent election was allowed to stand. It would tell me what I've been suspecting for a while - the rules are whatever the fuck the left decides them to be.

108
"Obama should produce it.  I had to produce mine to get into Little League baseball, I don't think it is too much to ask for Obama to produce his to prove his qualification for the most powerful job on the planet."

By law, you have to produce a birth certificate or other documentation proving citizenship to get almost any government job in the country. IMHO, if you need to produce documentation before you can get a job with the DMV or streets and san, surely it's not too onerous to produce that documentation before becoming president.

109 It's not like, should some certificate be produced and show he was born in Kenya, we could "undo" Obama's term.

We could use Fox News' time machine.

DrewM--Good question...I don't have a PDF of it or anything; I believe I read about that here in the comments.

Huh.  The sister's husband, who is Canadian, got a job at the Smithsonian last summer.  Wonder if he had to provide proof of work eligibility.

110

I was anti-birther last year when it was Orly Taitz and other such people questioning Obama's citizenship. I especially didn't like how some bloggers, including Pat Dollard, were aiming that message to the US military. I viewed them as traitors trolling for a coup.

I'm afraid that I still find birth certificate "skepticism" to be toxic, even if dressed up in a principle of "transparency".

This is not something we want to associate ourselves with.

111

Speaking of Presidents, here's a OT joke that LBJ loved to tell:

A politician goes on the stump and says to the crowd "My opponent Billy Wilson fucks sheep!" And the crowd goes wild.

His manager pulls him aside and says "Are you nuts? You know that Wilson doesn't fuck sheep!"

And the politician smiles and says ""Yeah, but I sure love watching him deny it."

112 I'll bet Putin has something on Barry O's background. If anyone can get it they can.
Also, if we ask questions about his background the left will call us crazy racists? Like they wouldn't anyways?

113

What would be the correct course to follow if it was found that Obama was ineligible?

He would need to resign. Period.

114 It's nice that everyone wants to give the Chicago Jesus, a proven liar and incompetent, a pass on the birth certificate/college transcripts issue, but think about what you're saying.

The Constitution lists few requirements for a president. Obama may not meet them. Should we say "oh, what the hell?" and let it ride? What other lies and evasions will we forgive?

Seems to me we might as well wad the Constitution up and use it for toilet paper if we don't have the will to follow its dictates.

It is not a "non-issue." McCain provided proof that he is eligible to be president; Obama did not. And, if he is not eligible, he should lose his office, just as if he had committed one of the "high crimes and misdemeanors" that render him impeachable.

That's all there is to it. Produce the proof, and he's home free.

115
Otherwise, it probably won't interest you, but millions are loving their iPhones.

And this concerns me.

People up here are putting Apple stickers (little Mac stickers) on their cars. It's weird when someone loves a company's product so much they put a sticker on their cars.

116

I don't think it goes that far. One doesn't need to believe any particular thing to stand for the proposition that given the Constitution only lays out two (?) prerequisites for assuming the most powerful office on earth -- age of 35 or older and "natural born" citizenship -- any candidate contending for that office should have the burden, without a lot of arguing about it, of proving his qualifications.

Ace...this is exactly the point I made to you some weeks back. Your position ...pretty much...was that they have already offered up enough documentation ...so "Shut up, that's why".(Their standard argument)..and that in your mind it was settled

I, too, think he should release the full birth certificate, The director of the Hawai'i dept of health has reported that she has the seen the original birth certificate...but then in a subsequent statement chnaged the term to "vital record".

Hawai'i is and always has been, a very transient place and it was common to accept those born outside the US as citizens....accepting a sworn affadavit of birth in lieu or in addition to of an actual BC

So..it is very possible that the vital record that Fukino refrred to is not the original BC...but could be the affadavit..which means he could very well possibly not be natural born as his mother because of her age and residency requirements does not fit the requirements.

My point is...why can't they just release his long form birth certificate...making all this go away?????

117

DrewM have you been sniffing glue?    How many birth certificates do you have?   The Constitution requires proof of natural born status.  That proof is a birth certificate.   I'm curious, why you would post something so moronic.

Do you believe that Opie has proven his birth status?

Maybe you were just kidding around, because you certainly cannot be as stupid as your post indicates.  Right?

118 DrewM--Good question...I don't have a PDF of it or anything; I believe I read about that here in the comments.

Heather,

Yeah, there's a lot of that with this issue. I find it's best to be very skeptical about claims like that, they don't usually pan out.

119 I think that regular folks are sort of annoyed about the whole birth certificate thing.  Particularly since they are required to show their birth certificate and another form of ID like a driver's license or passport most of the time when they are interacting with their government.  So, the little people, regular americans are whispering about this and Hayworth may have tapped into that since he did have a radio show.

120 how did The Vapid One® get a drivers' license?

Do we know he has one?

121

I guess I just want to know, what is the end game for everyone who demands to see the birth certificate? What is it they want to happen. And please don't tell me that "Obama is found to be ineligible and thrown out" because that isn't going to happen.......

But it would guaran-fucking-tee that he wouldn't get a second term

122 Come on already. The constitution requires a candidate to be a natural born citizen. That was satisfied by the COLB from Hawaii. End of story on his eligibility. The constitution doesn't say a candidate must produce a specific document. Granted, I know that there are juicy items in his long form passport documents. But there is no way to make the argument that he should produce them without coming off as a birther. And Barry has every incentive to keep those documents secret even on the chance there is nothing embarrassing in them. WE should go after his academic record though. That's the issue where he genuinely looks like he has something to hide AND there is no downside to demanding to see it. What bugs me most about this issue is that it is completely unnecessary to defeat Obama. We have more ammunition that we can carry already.

123 It would be nice to prove he was a non-citizen and then try him in a military tribunal at Gitmo. I know, a dream but delicious all the same.

124

I'm afraid that I still find birth certificate "skepticism" to be toxic, even if dressed up in a principle of "transparency".

Duly noted. But just so everyone knows, you stopped your LGF de-programming before the process was complete.

125 People up here are putting Apple stickers (little Mac stickers) on their cars. Well, not 75 million, which is the number of iPhones out there. I don't get the fanboy thing, even though I've used Apple stuff for decades. They screw up plenty of things... my last repair experience has been less than optimal. Still, Apple is very profitable, and people who like the iPhone paradigm will eat up this iPad.

126 Many apologies. I've seen the error in my ways.

Yes, by all means, let's demand that Obama produces his birth certificate. In CAPS LOCK. I mean Barack HUUUSSSSEEEEIIIINNNNN!!! Obama. When he does, it will obviously be a FORGERY just like the last one, obviously FORGED birth announcement in the FORGED Honolulu "newspaper." Then, let's DEMAND that Congress look into the COVER-UP, and purge any GOP candidates who don't get on board be PURGED, because they are obviously IN ON THE SCHEME, because they are BEHOLDEN to the FIAT MONEY INTERESTS.

Only when the plot is finally revealed will the TRUE conservatives TAKE BACK OUR COUNTRY!!! because the electorate will be so grateful that we rid our land of Barack HUUUSSSSEEEEIIIINNNNN!!! Obama.

127 Posted by: runninrebel at January 27, 2010 02:35 PM (i3PJU)

I'm not so familiar with this issue so forgive me if I say something that is a given for those in the know.  But, I think a lot of people were not really satisfied with what went on in Hawaii.  Have heard regular folks say that before they became a state and even after a lot of weird stuff went on there.

128 Posted by: gus at January 27, 2010 02:33 PM (Vqruj)

You state something as an affirmative fact (while insulting people who might not agree with you):

Let me make it simple for you dimwits.  Obama is required to provide a authentic birth certificate proving he was born in the U.S.

He's provided a COLB. That's good enough for Hayworth's football analogy and you say, 'no it's not!'.

I'm simply asking you to show me where you specific document is written into the Constitution or statute.

Try backing up your 'facts' instead of insulting others sometime.

129

Why has the "document" that Fukino spoke of  never been released so Americans know?

 

130 Barack's birth certificate was lost when WTC 7 was blown up by the CIa

131 Iowahawk bringin' teh funny!

132 #112

What would happen if convincing (that's key) evidence emerged that Obama was NOT a natural born US citizen?

First of all, I don't think its going to happen.  Clearly Obama's mom was a US citizen at the time of his birth, and I believe that makes him one all by itself.  If Obama isn't a "natural born" citizen, then when did he become one, and how?

But lets say, for the sake of argument that evidence emerges that Obama was born in Kenya, and never applied for US citizenship.

There would be a partisan fight over this; if it were devisive enough it could go the US Supreme Court, and in THEORY the SCOTUS could unseat him. . . making Joe Biden President.

Hurray (?). . .

133

He's provided a COLB

I have no skin in this game, as the point is moot to america at this point as he is already the president. But what exactly is a Certificate of Live Birth? Do we all have one? Is that something issued by the hospital for their records that they keep or is it issued to the parents? Should I have one?

I had never really heard of one until this argument came about concerning BHO's birth.

134 Come on already. The constitution requires a candidate to be a natural born citizen. That was satisfied by the COLB from Hawaii. End of story on his eligibility. The constitution doesn't say a candidate must produce a specific document.

Posted by: runninrebel at January 27, 2010 02:35 PM (i3PJU)

Constitutonal eligibility for the Presidency is not based solely on the circumstances of ones birth.  You can relinquish or lose your US citizenship and you can lose natural born status.  Holding other citizenships obviates whatever natural born status one might have (though the SCOTUS needs to to rule on this).  A birth certificate is not the last word on natural born status, especially for someone who ADMITS to having held other citizenship (Kenyan) and won't talk about Indonesian citizenship that it seems very likely he also held.

135 I have to jump in now....Why are ALL of his records sealed? I mean do they all show something he doesn't want the public to see? Last numbers I read reported that he was closer to spending 2 million in legal fees. Not verified sorry. But...isn't that kinda over kill?

136
At least iowahawk came around and realized he was wrong.

137 93 Please show me who is empowered by the Constitution to accept and or verify it. Posted by: DrewM. at January 27, 2010 02:25 PM (UAnTc) Alright. I'll make my argument. Please don't ban me for doing so. Perhaps it's roundabout, but it is my argument. The constitution states in Article II Section I paragraph 5 thusly: No person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the Office of President; neither shall any Person be eligible to that Office who shall not have attained to the Age of thirty-five Years, and been fourteen Years a Resident within the United States. Now where in Article II does it state that he actually has to produce this evidence (this is where it would go btw)? No where explicitly but there is this: Article II Section IV tersely states this: The President, Vice President and all civil Officers of the United States, shall be removed from Office on Impeachment for, and Conviction of, Treason, Bribery, or other high Crimes and Misdemeanors. Furthermore, in Article VII, it states the States ratified the constitution and Amendment X states thusly: "The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people." Now this is where my argument goes into interpretation of the constitutions above stated words. This is where rubber meets road... and where and why I might get banned. According to Article II Section I the President must be a Natural Born Citizen of the United States. With Obama's case, the only way that could possibly be is if he was born on US Soil (his parents couldn't possibly be the reason, one was only a citizen for less than a year, the other a non-citizen). I'm setting aside the dual-citizenship issue for now. To be elected President otherwise would be a violation of Article II Section I. Such a violation would call for Impeachment under Article II Section IV (this is a crime against the Constitution itself. To hold office while ineligible is a serious offence and would most certainly fit under High crimes and Misdemeanors). This is where my argument really goes on a limb. Who has the right to call the president out on the carpet? The states. According to Amendment X. Nothing empowers any branch of the federal government to do so, but nothing prevents the states from doing the same. After all, he is the President of the United States. Enough petitions from enough state governments and we might just force the issue into Impeachment.

138 The Constitution lists few requirements for a president. Obama may not meet them. Should we say "oh, what the hell?" and let it ride? What other lies and evasions will we forgive?

Because he produced a birth certificate. It was accepted. That's the end of the story. It may not be the version you want but it was accepted. If you're looking to have elections officials demand a particular version then a law has to be written.

Find a congressman, get him to write it, get it to pass and then come back to the table with it. Otherwise you're pissing in the wind and wasting time, that's why.

139

dangy 119, "He would need to resign. Period. "

Yes, he would NEED to resign, but he probably wouldn't. He then could count on the major cities and the black troops in the Army to support him. I, personally, do not want a ('n other) civil war with racial undertones. (But with added English Civil War nostalgia!)

Anyway this is all moot because he's a natural-born citizen, who is using this issue to make his opponents look bad.

140 A COLB, verified and sealed by a government official, is in fact "proof" of citizenship.  In fact the seal of the state is in fact "proof" in the archaic sense of the word meaning "stamp that shows the truth of assertions"

I have a proof stamp on more than a few barrels that I own.  I don't need to run high-power ammo through them to find out if it is certain that they will take it.

If the Hawaiian gov't would not verify the birth as being in Hawaii, I would have serious concerns.  As it is now, it just looks like teh Won is continuing to cover up his embarrassing, bastard child, third world, C- past.

He a complete liar.  That doesn't make the Hawaii gov't one.

141
heyyyyy, wait a minute...

142 Spoiling the party, Steve Jobs had to add this at the end of the keynote: "We've always tried to be at the intersection of technology and liberal arts..." Oh, barf. "'Cause, like, ya know, man, those number crunchers and math types are so square, dude. We're all artistic, 'n' stuff."

143 I have a feeling that if a birth certificate were duly produced, people would start saying that it was faked.That already happened! Obama released it, the director of the Hawaii Department of Health confirmed it was real... Jesus, what else do people want?

144 O/T:  I hate AT&T and they are a part of this, ugh.  But Jim on CNBC saying there are no contracts on this device.  Hmm, guess my AT&T stock isn't going up then since they appear to make their money by not letting you out of your contract and by forcing you to buy the new iphone at full price unless you are entitled to one according to date.

145 25 I bet it says Race: Caucasian.

That's why he doesn't want us to see it.

Posted by: dagny at January 27, 2010 02:01 PM (9UmL5)

------------------------------------------------------

 

Now that would be excellent. It would explain the secrecy, too.

 

And Drew, your blog boss is now a Birther. Hope you and the other douchebag lawyer here are happy with that.

146 Posted by: Ben at January 27, 2010 02:40 PM (wuv1c)

It's what Hawaii gives out when you ask for a birth certificate. It's accepted by all state agencies and the federal government (at least for passports, which is what I checked at one point).

Sorry, I don't have time to dig out the links from previous incarnations of this fight but you can start at the Hawaii Department of Health's website.

I got the same basic thing from NY and used it to get my passport, drivers license,, etc.

147 Please show me who is empowered by the Constitution to accept and or verify it.

Posted by: DrewM. at January 27, 2010 02:25 PM (UAnTc)

So ... are you saying that there is nothing to check about Constitutional prescriptions for the Presidency and ANYONE is eligible to be US President, since you don't think anyone has the power to check and verify whatever 'natural born citizen' might mean?

Oh, that's a great argument.

148 I too engaged in this battle on twitter and I find the people on the Right are the ones who are making the biggest deal of it. Gee comparing it to people who believe there was a vast evil but not too evil brilliant but not too brilliant Government conspiracy to forge a reason to start a war is surely a proper analogy just like comparing a kid accused of jaywalking to a accused mass murderer is. President Barack Hussein Obama ran as a reformer and an advocate of Transparency in his government but in his private life refuses absolutely to apply the same standards he is going to make the Government run on to himself. Gee I guess that makes him both a hypocrite and a liar then but we should just ignore that and move on because surely its a waste of time to point out the difference between what is said and done in a Politician. Its not like running for office means using comparisons or anything.

149

If I were a democrat I would be pushing this meme, just from reading the comments board I'm kinda disgusted by the condescension from each side.

My feelings on this issue is that it doesn't really matter. He's president. The only way you can get rid of him is voting in November 2012. That's it. Focus on that. Leave this issue by the wayside. Don't even address it because absolutely nothing good can come of it.

Ask youself this, if something happened and it was found out he wasnt born in America, what do you think would happen? Is there a constitutional recourse? Would America really throw out its first black president? What do you think would result in? Riots on the scale of 1968 after MLK was killed? Worse? A permanent, unrepairable division between black and white?

Focus on November 2010 and 2012 if you really want to defeat Obama.

150

Drew, I stated a fact.  Obama is required to prove his natural born status.
He hasn't.
Other than that, you can fuck yourself.

151 It is nice to get at least a small reminder out there, while people are beginning to question Barry's integrity on just about everything.  This is just another seed of doubt that should be planted again.

Maybe the media will discover the majority is not so keen on turning the country over to this group of frauds.  (and that those ignorant knuckle draggers are not subscribing or tuning in to their leftist diatribe)

And yeah ... where are those college papers our Genius in Chief was cranking out in his formative years.  If the media pillories him ... he'll turn into the Succubus.

152 "149 Spoiling the party, Steve Jobs had to add this at the end of the keynote: "We've always tried to be at the intersection of technology and liberal arts..."

Oh, barf. "'Cause, like, ya know, man, those number crunchers and math types are so square, dude. We're all artistic, 'n' stuff."

Posted by: George Orwell at January 27, 2010 02:42 PM (AZGON)"

Yesterday Erin Burnett interviewed the McGraw Hill guy.  he gave away way too much info and she went into another person's show to get it.  But, think about it, they are making textbooks for this thing and they were just thrilled.

153 156 +1

154

Posted by: Ben at January 27, 2010 02:40 PM (wuv1c)

It's what Hawaii gives out when you ask for a birth certificate. It's accepted by all state agencies and the federal government (at least for passports, which is what I checked at one point).

Sorry, I don't have time to dig out the links from previous incarnations of this fight but you can start at the Hawaii Department of Health's website.

I got the same basic thing from NY and used it to get my passport, drivers license,, etc.

thanks for the explanation. I was honestly ignorant of what it was. I had never heard of it before. I have my birth certificate and never had to apply for another one or copy, so I, like most people, am unfamiliar with the process of getting one.

155 Jesus, what else do people want?

I think the Birth Certificate stuff is nonsense, but it's rather odd that Obama doesn't have one to produce.  Maybe he lost it.  It happens.

But then we ask about his transcripts from Columbia, and Occidental, and Harvard...he won't release them.

Then there's the questions about tuition.  How did he pay for Occidental, Columbia, and Harvard law?  That's got to be a over $100,000 in tuition alone.  Where do you live cheap in Manhattan?  What about Cambridge?

I really don't care about the birth certificate, but if he lost it just say you lost it.  Hawaii says they can't reproduce one anyway.  Their records were vaporized.

156 @118--None of that is going to puncture the cult of personality.  They blame the unemployment rate on Bush; they don't think there's anything wrong with taxing "rich people" who are "lucky enough" to have good insurance, etc. 

Learning that the Great and Powerful Oz is just a shrivel-y white guy hiding behind a facade...that might leave a mark.

157

Progressoverpeace, be very careful, DrewM might feel insulted.

That is a FACT.

158 If you ran for office wouldn't your friends come out of the woodwork to support you?  Wouldn't the college you went to come out with stories and anecdotes of you as a student?  Wouldn't your law school be talking about the first time you answered in class and if you were prepared.  Your first job would be laughing at the first time you took a deposition or went before the court.  Where is that stuff for him?

159

Posted by: iowahawk at January 27, 2010 02:37 PM (veL4N)

You'd be amazed in a year of two what people will think of Barack Obama if this shit keeps up. The whole idea will be to keep him from a second term.

His defenders are already running for the exits.

It's classic FUD:

Fear

Uncertainty

Doubt

I'm not a Birther, and I believe that he is a natural born citizen, but I understand why people are demanding that he pony up all the shit that he has been able to hide from normal vetting.

160

strange .

I swear it was The Dem party that came out with a plan  ( a couple of days ago) to GET Republicans to ask this question.

i want to know why a Republican would comply.

161

With Obama's case, the only way that could possibly be is if he was born on US Soil (his parents couldn't possibly be the reason, one was only a citizen for less than a year, the other a non-citizen). I'm setting aside the dual-citizenship issue for now.

Stanley Ann Dunham was born in Kansas to parents who were American citizens. 

162

There has to be a birth certificate post at least once a month, is that how it works?

 

The topic annoys me, yet I cannot resist clicking on the comments....

163 But, think about it, they are making textbooks for this thing and they were just thrilled. I smell gubmint contracts for iPads. Apple, potential corporate welfare queen!

164 Posted by: curious at January 27, 2010 02:37 PM (p302b) Hawaii became a state in 1959. Barry was born in 1961. And it would not matter one bit if he was born before Hawaii was admitted into the union. And the people that weren't satisfied with the Hawaii document or newspaper article will not be satisfied with a birth certificate and an image of Obama crowning with a nurse nearby ready to put a Lei around his neck.

165

What would be the correct course to follow if it was found that Obama was ineligible?

He would need to resign. Period.

Posted by: dagny at January 27, 2010 02:32 PM (9UmL5)

If he were found ineligible then there would be nothing to resign from, since he would have never been able to assume the office, to start (like a minor signing a contract - it's just void and meaningless).  This is obvious when you think of why ROberts administered the oath twice.  The first one had a word or two screwed up, so Roberts thought that it would not have been legally binding and did it again.  If the Precedent were found inelgible, then that second oath would have also not been legally binding, since an ineligible person cannot take such an oath.  The operation of the government would continue as if the Precedent had just died.

166 What's all this "end game" crap. There IS no "end game" except making sure he hides nothing.

167

If this President was truley anti-American, what would he do different?

 

168 I'd say this isn't the biggest deal (to parrot Ace) but it's not a productive issue. The Dems want to make it a big deal in the election. Let them try. If the GOP candidates say "I'm not interested in this issue" and focus on the real issues, voters will realize how the Dems are just trying to play gotcha.

There's no chance Obama will be removed from office over his birth certificate. Best to focus our attention on what really matters.

169
I know - instead of taking this huge opportunity to focus on how the democrats are destroying the economy with their progressive tax & spend destruction -  and crazy statist programs - lets focus on the birther nonsense.  The left are hoping we do.   Great idea - GOP.

170

WTFCI.  Maybe Obama lost it. Maybe the DOG ate it.  Maybe he was born on Uranus,

I don't waist a lot of time worrying and wondering. BUT.

It's OBAMA'S ONUS to PROVIDE IT.    NOT OUR ONUS TO PROVE OTHERWISE.

Kook aid drinkers and idiots like DREWM are satisfied or don't care.  What if Sarah Palin ran and didn't have hers?

171

WTFCI.  Maybe Obama lost it. Maybe the DOG ate it.  Maybe he was born on Uranus,

I don't waist a lot of time worrying and wondering. BUT.

It's OBAMA'S ONUS to PROVIDE IT.    NOT OUR ONUS TO PROVE OTHERWISE.

Kook aid drinkers and idiots like DREWM are satisfied or don't care.  What if Sarah Palin ran and didn't have hers?

Read

172 Posted by: Chaz at January 27, 2010 02:41 PM (u3fm3)

That's a bit, um, circuitous.

I'd offer the following...

The Constitution vests the power of actually electing the President in the Electoral College and the Congress with certifying their results.

Neither body can fulfill its function with an unqualified candidate (the electors can't elect him if he's not eligible and Congress couldn't certify the election of unqualified candidate).

Now, there's nothing that lays out how those bodies go about reaching their conclusions as to eligibility as laid out in Artilce II so it has to be presumed it's up to them.

The Courts have no role here and electing a President is a delegated power so the X Amendment doesn't come into play.

173

The topic annoys me, yet I cannot resist clicking on the comments....

Posted by: Luca Brasi at January 27, 2010 02:47 PM (YmPwQ)

Ditto

174 67 That being said, I would like to know what kind of documentation Obama provided

As I understand it, an affidavit signed by Nancy Pelosi was provided to the various state agencies after the Democratic convention.

I'm not an expert on federal agencies, but I'd imagine that there is some sort of federal elections board that oversees such matters.

Nope.

79 So does his half-sister, who was born in Indonesia.

AFAIK, this is just speculation that arose from folks staring at JPEG artifacts in the released COLB. Someone decided it was indication that someone else's certificate had been photoshopped and someone else thought that his sister's name could be shoved into the JPEG artifacts. It caught fire from there. If you have more solid info about this, I'd love to see a cite.

87 My money is still on embarrassing information to the bastard-god-child

My money's on it being largely blank. There's allegedly a passage in Dreams From My Father where he talks about finding his birth certificate in his grandmother's stuff and wondering why his name wasn't on it.

175 BTW: a COLB simply states this: That you were born, and born alive. That's why it's a Certificate of Live Birth: the only thing you have to do to get one (if you don't have anything else) is to show up at a courthouse and prove that you're breathing and have a pulse. Not hard to do. Why is this important: I can't do squat with a COLB. I can't get my Social Security card, my drivers license, or anything with a COLB. The state of IL wouldn't accept it for those purposes, and neither would the US government... so why should we? As heather said in 79: He has a, you know, COLB from Hawaii. So does his half-sister, who was born in Indonesia. (My money has always been on "born in Hawaii, father's name is not Obama" Eligible liar.) Posted by: HeatherRadish at January 27, 2010 02:19 PM (mR7mk) A COLB =/= a Birth Certificate. A Birth certificate says thusly: (a) you were certified by multiple witnesses to be born AT a specific time and place AND. (b) you were born ALIVE to at least ONE specific parent. Obviously (a) is what we're looking for here, but (b) is important nonetheless.

176

Yes, I agree there is not time to ask Obama for his birth certificate.

None at all.   Sex monster.  You best run along and do the heavy lifting for us.
We're busy focusing on minutia and making LIBS happy.

177 The problem with them is they come with some lame-ass Windows 7 Starter with no Microsoft Word!

Meh.  Just go buy a copy of Office 97 off eBay for $20 to go with it.

Then download the free Word viewer from MS that handles all the more recent formats.  I'm still using Office 97 and it works fine. 

OpenOffice works too, but is distinctly more ummm...Rubenesque than the MS product.

178
The Hayworth/McCain battle will be fought in a fairly red state.  I doubt the birth certificate stuff would have helped Scott Brown.  This stuff won't play well in every state.  Why bother? 

179

D'oh! Stupid sock puppet.

 

180

 FORGED birth announcement in the FORGED Honolulu "newspaper

Different reports have Obama born in two different hospitals..Kapiolani Hospital and Queens Hospital..neither has confirmed nor denied..

...as far as the birth announcement in the newspaper..that proves nothing..Obama's grandmother was a bank VP and so was in some pretty savvy circles...as I mentioned above...Hawai'i is a very transient place...and issues of birth locations would be very common...in fact, it was practice by the state to grant citizenship to a pesron based only on a sworn affadavit that the indiviudal was born in Hawai'i..even though there was documentation he/she was born elesewhere...even outside the country..

...now Madelyn Dunham..the grandmother...could have had the foresight there might be problems with the fact that her 17 year old daughter was pregnant by a thirty-something married man...and it's quite possible she sought the advice and council of educated and experienced friends..and /or a lawyer and had the announcement made up and placsd in the paper to help avoid issues of his birth down the road..

plausible??...sure...likely?? ...who the fuck knows??

But why not just release the fucking BC if there is nothing to hide???

181 OpenOffice works too, but is distinctly more ummm...Rubenesque than the MS product. Heh heh... freetard software can be great. It can also be a pain in the neck.

182 Posted by: progressoverpeace at January 27, 2010 02:40 PM (A46hP) An adult can lose or relinquish their natural born citizenship. Maybe. But it's not clear. But a child is in no way beholden to his parent's decisions regarding his citizenship. It doesn't matter how much his mother moved him or manipulated his status as a US Citizen.

183 Would America really throw out its first black president? What do you think would result in? Riots on the scale of 1968 after MLK was killed? Worse? A permanent, unrepairable division between black and white?

The 30% or so that always sticks with it's party, R or D, wouldn't, but the remaining 70%? Yeah, i think they would throw him out if it came to light he wasn't eligible and had lied to them. And if there are riots, so what? If kicking an ineligible liar out of office creates an unrepairable rift between black and white people, then there really wasn't any commonality there to begin with.

184 This exchange, along with the DNC memo of questions to ask GOP candidates, shows the left wants to divert focus from the real issues facing America. And by real issues I mean the fact the Democrats are screwing us over.

Better not to get drawn in. Let's go kick some ass, rather than fall into their trap. If GOP candidates are prepared to deal with this issue quickly and show it as the trick that it is, they'll be well served.

185 Drew, I stated a fact.  Obama is required to prove his natural born status.
He hasn't.
Other than that, you can fuck yourself.
Posted by: gus at January 27, 2010 02:45 PM (Vqruj)

No you stated he needed to produce a very specific type of document...

Let me make it simple for you dimwits.  Obama is required to provide a authentic birth certificate proving he was born in the U.S.

I love how you are trying to pretend you didn't say something when it's, I don't know, right on the same page as your new claim.

BTW- You're the only one who has been calling names. Why so hostile just because I asked you to back up your claim?

186 @ 180. Ok. I'll admit that you have a much better argument than I. That said, what recourse do we have when the Electoral College has elected a President that hasn't been duly verified with due diligence? Especially now since that president has been seated and standing. That's akin to seating a senator before the election results are certified. It's OK to do so long as everything turns out well after the fact, but what happens when a serious issue arises?

187

This exchange, along with the DNC memo of questions to ask GOP candidates, shows the left wants to divert focus from the real issues facing America. And by real issues I mean the fact the Democrats are screwing us over.

Better not to get drawn in. Let's go kick some ass, rather than fall into their trap. If GOP candidates are prepared to deal with this issue quickly and show it as the trick that it is, they'll be well served.

Yeah as i said in 156, if I were a democrat I would be pushing this like crazy as well. Regardless of how you feel this isn't a winning issue. If the republicans can side step minor issues in interviews why can't they side step this one?

188 This argument is like a losing boxer trying to win his belt by claiming his opponent is 6 ounces out of his weight class, and therefore disqualified. Hey, I just heard a caller on Rush use the word "libtard..." Perhaps she is a fellow moron!

189

So Chaz, the COLB is NOT PROOF of natural born citizen status?

Alynski says to hold your opponents to their own standards.

Libs have no standards.    Obama is a fraud.  

In conclusion, we DO NOT KNOW if Obama was born in the U.S.

I'm not saying he wasn't.  I'm saying he hasn't proven he was.  Obama has had opponents thrown off of ballots for lesser offenses than this lack of proof.
Alynski rules.  read them. 

 

190
188 - thank you.

And you think this is a productive use of time and political capital, huh? Pursuing a marginal issue that has little popular support and is so far down on the list of people's actual concerns that it is probably rated as a national priority somewhere between "getting my dog to stop shedding" and "printing larger expiration dates on milk jugs".

191

It may not matter. I think he's going to have some kind of a breakdown in the next year, in any case. There is something very wrong and weird about BHO.

We can all agree on that...

192 To be able to take the tests to join the millwright union I had to bring a copy of my birth cert. and my GED. Made a special trip to Iowa City to court house to get duplicate.Had never in 30+ years ever needed to show my actual GED. Everyone took my word that I had passed it. Well when I had first taken the tests in the 70's and got my results back, I figured the piece of paper with my passing scores was good enough for me and had never sent for the diploma. Well big Fucking Whoops on my part, cause 30 some years later Iowa won't issue me one.But the school that had given me the tests in the 70's did give me an official letter saying that I had indeed passed all the tests.That letter along with the original 70's letter with all my passing test scores was enough proof for the people at the union. The guy said he had never seen any one with thier original test results. Still got my test results letter, got in the union, and no I didn't vote for numbnuts.

193 I think the Birth Certificate stuff is nonsense, but it's rather odd that Obama doesn't have one to produce.  Maybe he lost it.  It happens.

Posted by: WTFCI at January 27, 2010 02:46 PM (GtYrq)

The problem is that he (Ayers) wrote in one of The Precedent's books that he was looking at his birth certificate, sitting right in front of him.

Posted by: gus at January 27, 2010 02:47 PM (Vqruj)

Heh.  Drew and I have the exact same arguments every time a thread on this comes up.  At least Gabe admitted that he thought the Constitution would allow someone holding 73 other citizenships to hold the US Presidency, which I think most people just find to be a crazy idea, and seeing what the Founders thought about just dual alliegances ... out of this world.

194 121 People up here are putting Apple stickers (little Mac stickers) on their cars. It's weird when someone loves a company's product so much they put a sticker on their cars.

Apple puts them in the box with the stuff. They've been doing it since the Apple II days, only then it was a rainbow sticker. People have been sticking them on their car since then.

195
ha! Purple Avenger, I still have the Office97 I bought for cheap in 2002!

but the problem with netbooks is they don't have CD drives.

196

Mallamutt, the candidacy petition has NOTHING to do with the Constitutional REQUIREMENT to natural born status.

If Obama was 23 and no one challenged his candidacy he could not be seated.

Obama has been challenged.  Obama did not prove his natural born status.

I may be over ruled by a court in my opinion.   Often you and I both are.

But if you want to tell me that he has proven his natural born status, give it a shot.

197 I know... if you want to nail down Barry's birth, ask David Plouffe. He seems to have mothered him.

198 Note that the Constitution simply says the President has to be a natural born US citizen.  It doesn't require him to prove it, and I think if there is a burden of proof here, its on his opponents to prove he is NOT one.

If the State of HI has released a certificate of live Birth listing Obama, then I think that proves he is a US born citizen.

Maybe its not exactly the same as a birth certificate, or not as satisfying to his critics, but I think its conclusive proof in the legal sense.  The same document would be accepted in any court in the country as legal proof of someone's birth.  

More to the point, its too late now.  The time for this sort of vetting was when he was looking for the Democrat nomination, not now. In practice, Obama has taken the oath of office and he simply is NOT going to be unseated over this nonsense. 

199 I really don't care about the birth certificate, but if he lost it just say you lost it. Hawaii says they can't reproduce one anyway. Their records were vaporized.

Perhaps you should read the link I provided, Hawaii has released statements (at least twice now) saying they have it.

200 I guess I just want to know, what is the end game for everyone who demands to see the birth certificate? What is it they want to happen.

Just one more indicator for those paying attention that the press doesn't pay attention to issues that might be embarrassing for their preferred candidates. And demonstrating again the principles that no one is 'above' the rules and hoops that us peons are forced to meet and jump through.

But really, who the cares what happens? Finding out the truth is its own reward.

201

What a fucking sissy.

202

Dead wrong. Again, under established law, once a facially valid Petition of Candidacy has been filed, any challenges to the validity of the Petition falls on the challenger (those who do not believe that Obama is a natural born citizen) and not the candidate.

Posted by: Mallamutt at January 27, 2010 02:54 PM (V9SYy)

Incorrect.  The SecStates had the responsibility to verify eligibility and several of them (in the D'Onofrio case, to name one) testified that they didn't check anything but took the word of the party.  That's why Roger Calero, born in Nicaragua and not even an American citizen (he's a green card holder) was on the ballot for President in 6 states in 2008 - one of them being New Jersey where D'Onofrio filed his case and whose SecState admitted to checking NOTHING.

203

News Flash!! 

Dan Rather forges President Obama's birth certificate.

Mary Mapes refusing to answer questions.

 

204 Not a productive issue? Why does everyone keep saying that. What the hell is it supposed to "produce" other than the content of his birth certificate?

205 @184 -

Both of my daughters' COLB, in NYS, have all of that information on it.  Place of birth, date, time, parents, witnesses, doctor.

I imagine it varies by locale.  In some places COLB does = Birth Certificate.

206 Obama was born to a white, atheist communist who only liked to let non-white men screw her.  His biological father took a powder when he was a baby.  His "stepfather" was an admitted pedophile and pornographer.  C'mon, Barack, how much more embarrassing can your original Birth certificate be?

207 The birth certificate should be provided to be examined by each elector in the Electoral College, as they are the only ones who actually cast a direct vote for President. If there was a discrepancy, they could have refused to cast their votes and told SCROTUS "I got your legal standing right here, bitch."

208 I also think DrewM should do sex to himself.

209 I've been saying from the beginning that anti-Birthers are way, way more irritating than Birthers, mainly because the anti-Birthers keep insisting that "Birther" means a hell of a lot more than actual Birthers say it does.

For every crazed Bircher-type who believes Obama must be some fraudulent Manchurian candidate, I suspect there are 100 or more others who just want to see it because...why the hell not?

In any event, it would be just swell if the anti-Birthers could tone down their own spittle-flecked excesses when it comes to responding to this relatively mundane matter.

210 but the problem with netbooks is they don't have CD drives.

It has to have a LAN jack though.  Just network it to a desktop and share out the desktop's CD over the LAN and assign it a drive letter on the netbook and run the install over the LAN.  I do this all the time to load stuff on machines I've removed the CD from or are so old they never had one.

211

Dr Spanky, DrewM will use the typical libtard tactic of calling you hostile.

It's fucking pathetic. 

212 Pssstt...

Do you really want to know where Barack HHHHHUUUUSSSSEEEIIINNN!!!!! Obama's real birth certificate is?

Solve the word scramble:

TIRG PAILN

Layers and layers.

213
too technical!

214 On the other hand...

I recently noticed that my own "birth certificate" is, in fact, a Certificate of Live Birth.

So what the hell do I know?

215 In any event, it would be just swell if the anti-Birthers could tone down their own spittle-flecked excesses when it comes to responding to this relatively mundane matter.

That's rich, considering the most hostile rhetoric is coming from a Birther in this here thread.  One who wants to be taken seriously while telling people to go fuck themselves and spelling Alinsky wrong.

216 @ 200 So Chaz, the COLB is NOT PROOF of natural born citizen status? It wasn't enough for the State of IL to get my Drivers License, nor was it enough for the Social Security office to re-issue my Social Security Card, so nope... not really. Both of those explicitly required a Birth Certificate BTW. Alynski says to hold your opponents to their own standards. What do you think I'm trying to do? Compared to Obama, Bush had an Anal probing of his records. When he ran against Jack Ryan for IL senate they released Jack Ryan's Divorce Records for God's sake (in the same year the press said it would be wrong for Kerry's divorce records to be released). Libs have no standards. Obama is a fraud. Tell me something I don't know already. In conclusion, we DO NOT KNOW if Obama was born in the U.S. See my previous comment. I'm not saying he wasn't. I'm saying he hasn't proven he was. Once again, I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt. Once again however, I must bring up the principle of 'trust but verify'. Obama has had opponents thrown off of ballots for lesser offenses than this lack of proof. See my previous statement vis a vi John Kerry vs Jack Ryan. Alynski rules. read them. Know your enemy. I believe Sun Tzu said that. Posted by: gus at January 27, 2010 02:54 PM (Vqruj)

217 How about for funzies people take a look at the only court decision to take this seriously and debate the legal findings.

It's here (pdf).

I know just railing about what you think the law should be is fun but why not trying to argue, I don't know, what the law actually is for a change?

218 The prez wants to keep this non-troversy alive, he thinks its good politics for some reason.  Beats me why, except that everything he does is for political reasons, never because its right or wrong, only politics.

219

Dr Spanky, DrewM will use the typical libtard tactic of calling you hostile.

It's fucking pathetic. 

You make personal attacks, and object to being called hostile?

Dude, you're a fucking asshole.

220 I think the real issue at hand here is will Ace and company be live blogging tonight SOTU?

221 chaz - do you sleep in your office?

222 Posted by: gus at January 27, 2010 03:02 PM (Vqruj)

I love when people who can't back up their arguments or admit they are changing them mid course call me pathetic.

It's almost like they (and by they, I mean you) have no clue what they are talking about.

223 You guys are doing it wrong. You're supposed to use the Rules For Radicals against your political opponents.

224 Getting a driver's license is far more important than becoming President, since you may drive fast through a school zone or something on your way to the unemployment office.

225 You are probably going to come at me but sheesh "birthers" "anti birthers" ....more labels....more ways to divide people.  Regular folks when they become aware of this issue usually do not understand why this is an issue and they usually ask why he doesn't put it to rest and move along.  So regular people still think it hasn't been "put to rest".   The undercurrent is there, no one is recognizing it.

226
Live blogging sucks.

227 Does this mean you'll finally quit pointing at me and my shiny hat? 

228 217 Obama was born to a white, atheist communist who only liked to let non-white men screw her.  His biological father took a powder when he was a baby.  His "stepfather" was an admitted pedophile and pornographer.  C'mon, Barack, how much more embarrassing can your original Birth certificate be?

Posted by: Crusty at January 27, 2010 03:00 PM (GvSpB)

 

Hehehe sounds like the story of Dr. Evil.

 

229

238
Live blogging sucks.

I hate you.

 

I enjoy it. It's always hilarious to me anyway.

230 Not a productive issue? Why does everyone keep saying that. What the hell is it supposed to "produce" other than the content of his birth certificate?

Posted by: SarahW at January 27, 2010 03:00 PM (CSrvi)

How does arguing about the birth certificate help you stop the Democrats in congress? Republicans need voters to focus on how bad the Dems are screwing us over, not to get sidetracked into a debate over Obama's birth certificate.

Say they release the long form certificate and it proves Obama's legitimate? How does that help Republican candidate X get elected?

I don't think the certificate will be released any time soon, if ever. Arguing over it is wasted energy plain and simple. It does not produce political capital.

231 I am bothered by the fact that folks asking for plain simple facts are labeled, Saul Alinsky style, as 'birthers' -  a term with one purpose in mind: to de-legitimize anyone asking what seems to be a fairly reasonable request.  I am bothered by the labeling but not surprised by it,  because this is the tactic of the left.  Identify a target, freeze it, label it, mock it and reduce it to a joke.

What I AM surprised at is the acceptance by folks on the right that this label is valid, and can be used against our own.  Why are some so willing to accept the words that the left uses to reduce people from folks asking common sense questions, to folks in need of a psychiatrist?

He who owns the words controls the debate.  And the right just keeps wearing those words. 

232 Posted by: Mallamutt at January 27, 2010 03:06 PM (V9SYy)

Why are you ignoring what I wrote to you?  The Sec State of New Jersey ADMITTED to not checking anything, even though state law REQUIRED it, but just taking the parties' word for the eligibility of their candidates.  The only reason the D'Onofrio case didn't go on was because the courts decided that voters have no standing in establishing the eligibility of candidates that they can vote for.  That ruling was, of course, insane.

233 "That's rich, considering the most hostile rhetoric is coming from a Birther in this here thread."

This topic predates this thread, and there is no shortage of hostility on the part of "anti-Birthers."

234 233 chaz - do you sleep in your office? Posted by: Jean at January 27, 2010 03:06 PM (PjevJ) Nope... I just work swing shifts. Why?

235 I love when people who can't back up their arguments or admit they are changing them mid course call me pathetic.

It's almost like they (and by they, I mean you) have no clue what they are talking about.
Posted by: DrewM. at January 27, 2010 03:06 PM (UAnTc)

pwnage

236

Every American of voting age has had to produce an original or certified copy of their actual birth certificate, multiple times, for far less reasons than POTUS. In other words: It's No Big Deal.

 

That someone asks for 0bama to produce his, simply will not trigger the electoral apocalypse that the left hopes for and the hand wringers fear.

237

The law up until was 1986 required his natural-born parent (his mother) to have resided in the United States for '10 years, at least [f]ive of which had to be after the age of 16.'. Obama's mother was 18 when she gave birth to her bastard son...so that requirement was  not met.

The COLB that Obama produced has NEVER been verified by anyone with the state of Hawi'i as being true and accurate.

It was/is possible to have been born outside Hawai'i..even outside the country...and still be granted citizenship by the state

Obama never has proven he is natural born and therefore eligible

All he has to do is authorize the state to release his birth records. Why hasn't he?

 

238 Obama did produce his birth certificate. The woman how signed it stood by the Gov. of Hawaii and declared it was the real deal.

If you only listen to one source of news, you get trapped in a delusional world.

This is a big issue because it is SO EASY to show how ridiculous it is.

239 Hayworth can bash McCain and demand to see Obama's real birth certificate all he wants, but it isn't going to wash off the stench of Abramoff.

240 "You guys are doing it wrong.

You're supposed to use the Rules For Radicals against your political opponents."

They don't call us the Stupid Party for nothing.

241 I'm not going to watch the speech.  I can't stand all the back patting and hand shaking and smiling and bi partisan collegiality.  Makes America think the republicans are full of crap when they say "they didn't let us into the room where the discussions were going on".  For most normal people, if that were the case, they wouldn't be going to a speech and acting as though everything was fine.  They would be angry and probably not go to the speech.  This is why they are all the same, all cut from the same cloth, all following the same road and you wonder why independents like me are growing by leaps and bounds.

242 I am bothered by the fact that folks asking for plain simple facts are labeled, Saul Alinsky style, as 'birthers' -  a term with one purpose in mind: to de-legitimize anyone asking what seems to be a fairly reasonable request.  I am bothered by the labeling but not surprised by it,  because this is the tactic of the left.  Identify a target, freeze it, label it, mock it and reduce it to a joke.

What I AM surprised at is the acceptance by folks on the right that this label is valid, and can be used against our own.  Why are some so willing to accept the words that the left uses to reduce people from folks asking common sense questions, to folks in need of a psychiatrist?

He who owns the words controls the debate.  And the right just keeps wearing those words.

It's shorthand, because there's no better term right now to describe people who are obsessed with this birth certificate thing.  If you can think of something appropriately descriptive without claiming something trite like "truth seekers" then let us all know so we can use the better term.

243 Drew, do you argue with Ace about this too?  I mean, Ace did write:

 "If a man wants to be president, he should have no problem releasing the run-of-the-mill public records that prove he satisfies the age and birth requirement.

Sure, I could take it on faith, but why the hell should I?"

You always argue with other posters about this.  But they're really not saying anything different than what Ace posted above.

244 The interesting part is that Hayworth is running against McCain, who had to get an Act of Congress passed to clarify his eligibility, Hilary blocked Obama from hopping onto that bill. The only real solution is to get a State that matters (enough electoral votes and in play) to change their ballot requirements (New Jersey, Missouri, Ohio, Virginia, or Florida would do) after Obama commits to running, then see what he does.

245 too technical!

If the netbook has a USB plug, you can also image the the Office CD onto a thumbdrive big enough to hold 700M or so and plug it into the netbook.

Just take the CD, stick it into a desktop that has a USB plug, wipe a thumbdrive clean, and XCOPY the whole mess from one drive to the other.

Usually this set of XCOPY switches works well where "X" is the CD, and "Y" is the USB thumbdrive.

XCOPY X:\*.* Y: /S /E /V /H

246 The only question should be, really, 'Why hasn't he released it?'

247

Guy, to divide us. look at former chatters and good willed souls here fighting because of the question.

will it really divide us. i doubt it, but what else do they have. we Are starting to band together, re'tea party. independants health care

we Mustn't do that, it has screwed up their goals.

248

It wasn't enough for the State of IL to get my Drivers License, nor was it enough for the Social Security office to re-issue my Social Security Card, so nope... not really.

In some states, you don't even have to be in the country legally to get a driver's license.

249 Chaz, their is a Congressman from Utah with a similar name who sleeps in his office to save money.

250 that was me, at 259

251 the there there

252 And for the record...

I'm not a Birther, insofar as I don't give a damn about this issue.  I just have zero interest in crapping on anyone else who does and see little sense in joining the dogpile.

For some reason, though, that hasn't been a good enough position for anti-Birthers in the past, God knows why.

253

Question: can you get a US Passport with just a COLB?

That is pertinent, I believe, since that is a Federal document. I honestly don't know.

I don't doubt Obama is a US citizen, I just hate to think that this is just another inflammatory "fuck you" to the country from that vane little piece of shit.

Most people would like to see his actual birth certificate. If he is the only reason that it is not available, then why? If it has been vaporized, then that would be OK. The larger question is; why is he always so secretive about his actual past?

Just don't ask me as an American citizen to enable or defend any dishonest politician.

254 You always argue with other posters about this.  But they're really not saying anything different than what Ace posted above.
Posted by: Tami at January 27, 2010 03:11 PM (VuLos)

In my first comment on this thread (#55) I took issue with what Ace wrote.

Some of the commenters may take the same approach as Ace but there are other flavors of this as well...people who don't think anyone with a foreign born parent can ever be a natural born citizen, people who don't think Obama was born in HI, people who , etc.

It's not all one big argument but a bunch of different ones.

255 I feel as though the dems want you guys talking about anything but STOU

256 There's a million miles between

'it would be nice if everyone had to produce their original docs, or the best docs available'

and

'so and so was or wasn't born here'

We know Obama has this original certificate because people mention having looked at it, it being in a safe, whatever.  It's not crazy to expect that be something the people get to see.

I am sure Obama was born in Hawaii, but let's go ahead and have a standard in place to handle this issue going forward.

257 grognard


You are accepting terms that seek to marginalize elements of the conservative movement.  By accepting those terms, you re-inforce the marginalization. I think using the tools of one's enemy against our own is a destructive strategy.  Your mileage may vary.

258 Posted by: Mallamutt at January 27, 2010 03:14 PM (V9SYy)

Calero was part of D'Onofrio's suit.

259

Perhaps you should read the link I provided, Hawaii has released statements (at least twice now) saying they have it

No...they have not.

 In the first statement Fukino says they have a birth certificate on file...not that it was a state issued one.

In the second, she says they have the vital record showing he was born in HI. Notice the weasel words here?

...thing is...Hawai'i has in the past accepted an affidavit stating an person was born in HI to establish citizenship when in fact that person could have actually been born outside the country

260 I didn't read the whole thread, and excuse me if this has already been brought up, BUT, just listened to yesterday's Mark Levin show- Levin says that McCain is playing hard ball with Hayworth.  The same McCain who basically gave Obama a pass.  Trying to scare him out of a primary challenge.

If I has some money, I'd give some to Hayworth.

261 I have a question: The Hawaiian government has sealed the original birth certificate. And as far as I know, states do not issue birth certificates for babies born in other countries or states. So, um, does anyone want to say that the governor sealed a document that doesn't exist?

262 Question: can you get a US Passport with just a COLB?
Posted by: TexasJew at January 27, 2010 03:16 PM (dcKUM)

Yes. Start here. Follow the link to Hawaii. Then the link under 'Birth'.

What they (the Hawaii Department of Health) gives you is what Obama released.

263 I recently noticed that my own "birth certificate" is, in fact, a Certificate of Live Birth.

So what the hell do I know?


In my state, if you show up at the courthouse of the county you were born in asking for a "birth certificate", you get a really nice computer printout with the vital details; one that is accepted by every state agency.  Had to show it to the DOT to get a Hazmat endorsement, believe it or not.


Which is why I believe this whole discussion, while amusing on an academic level, is a waste of time.


Amen, brother.

264 Always wondered what was said to make McCain roll over just like I always wonder what was said in Nancy's office that Thursday night.  Oh to be a fly on the wall.

But hey, instead of writing an article in the paper in real time, bet some crackerjack "journalist" is writing a book about both issues right now so they can make money hawking their book and so no one will ask them why they didn't reveal this information during the election cycle.

265 And really, who freaking cares about Roger Calero?

Posted by: Mallamutt at January 27, 2010 03:17 PM (V9SYy)

Okey doke, there.  A NON-CITIZEN is on the Presidential ballot and you don't care.  That is, at least, consistent with your attitude about The Precedent's eligibility.  Who cares? ... Indeed.

266 So Hannity saying when carville did his 360 degree turnaround that he knew hillary would be not far behind.  Apparently today she said she will leave before a second term.   Hmmm....but she isn't running. 

hahahhahhahhahahahhahahha

267 261 Chaz, their is a Congressman from Utah with a similar name who sleeps in his office to save money. Posted by: Jean at January 27, 2010 03:14 PM (tTdaQ) I don't know whether to take that as a compliment or not. I'm currently living in the state of UT despite my longtime standing a a citizen of the People's Republic of IL. FWIW: my birth Certificate is in MO, hence my difficulties with the COLB.

268

The only question should be, really, 'Why hasn't he released it?'

The only practical answer to that is, it does not matter.  The issue is moot.  Obama, for good or ill, is the president.  The time for challenge is past.

269 It is not the burden of the Secretary of State to say "yup, they meet every requirement". 

Posted by: Mallamutt at January 27, 2010 03:20 PM (V9SYy)

Incorrect.  State law required the Sec State to insure that all candidates on the ballots were eligible.  The Sec State of New Jersey admitted to not carrying this out.  It was only a ridiculous standing argument that kept that case from discovery and being heard on the merits.  And even leftist tools, like Turley, thought those 'lack of standing' arguments were weak.

270 Speaking of working swings... I've got to get going. Cheers.

271 I'm not a Birther, insofar as I don't give a damn about this issue.  I just have zero interest in crapping on anyone else who does and see little sense in joining the dogpile.

For some reason, though, that hasn't been a good enough position for anti-Birthers in the past, God knows why.

Posted by: Kensington at January 27, 2010 03:15 PM (LIH4p)

I'm with you. It's like all the pseudo-Eeyores on HA that go apeshit and get into condemnation mode as soon as a Pubbie wanders an inch off the reservation.

There is a legitimate reason to demand transparency from this pathetic failure of a President, totally unvetted as he was. Some fellow conservatives feel that way about his Birth Cetificate and transcripts; I'm not going to be judge and jury. And as for "non-winnable", a year ago, we all were told by the MSM and even our own RINOs  that the Republican party was finished.

272 "283

The only question should be, really, 'Why hasn't he released it?'

The only practical answer to that is, it does not matter.  The issue is moot.  Obama, for good or ill, is the president.  The time for challenge is past.

Posted by: huerfano at January 27, 2010 03:22 PM (kJLH9)"

I'm not so sure that the American people would agree with you.  They have been wholly misread at least three times, the last being Boston.  Maybe if there was a poll we might discover how regular people view this birth certificate issue and if they want the issue pursued maybe ol JD is more plugged into the people than you might have thought.

273 Whenever I go to get my own Birth Certificate all they ever give me is a certified copy. Is this some ploy to prevent ME from becoming POTUS. I blame Bush

274

I'm not so sure that the American people would agree with you.

You could be right.  But given that most people in the country don't know the name of their own congressman and that anyone who pursues it is portrayed as a nutjob in the MSM, I doubt it.

275

25

RACIST!!!

276 You can get a Passport with a COLB, however as an former FSO, the COLB as presented would not have gotten a security clearance package forwarded -- I would have requested more information -- esp. from Hawaii.

277 People up here are putting Apple stickers (little Mac stickers) on their cars. It's weird when someone loves a company's product so much they put a sticker on their cars.

But it's definitely okay to tattoo a company's logo on their bodies.

278 Posted by: Mallamutt at January 27, 2010 03:25 PM (V9SYy)

My end game is that the SCOTUS will hear one of the eligibility cases and establish the operational definition for 'natural born citizen'.  The SCOTUS can punt on The Precedent and just declare that one can hodl thousands of other citizenships and still be a natural born citizen if he was born in America or to American parents or whatever they want to make up so that The Precedent falls within the class.  There's no risk to them to take the case.  Of course, much of America would be up in arms if a ruling came down that someone who was a citizen of China, Russia and Iran could be our President, so long as he was born under the right circumstances (like that Saudi jihadi who was born in Texas).

Anyway, the SCOTUS can easily put this all to rest wwith an awful decision along those lines and then it would take a Constitutional amendment to provide a more reasonable and sensible operational definiton to override that.

The only way the SCOTUS would not have a choice would be if The Precedent weren't actually born in Hawaii (which I don't think is the case, anyway).  But if you believe that he has ample proof to show a Hawaii birth then there is no risk in taking this to the Court.

Personally, I'd like to see him ruled inelgible (since dual citizenship should obviate natural born status, as any of the Founders would have told you) and the succession taking place as if he had just died in office (which is how the mechanics of it would work).

279 Why is it that yesterday Drudge and others say the Democrats were going to start running on the "Birther" issue and today we are pissing and moaning about it?

He is not eligible in my opinion, but, the horse has left the barn and there is little we can do about it.  Let's concentrate on his crazy instead of ours, huh?

280 Chaz, where in Utah do you live?  I live in Draper.

281

@121 -

I've never understood those Mac stickers people put on their cars.  I am not a fanboy either, but I sure won't pay out the wazoo for computer service (i.e taking a Mac back to the genius bar or whatever its called) that I can do myself esp after forking over a sizable amount of dough (over the competition's product) in the first place.

282 So, no takers on Judge Carter's decision? (It's here (pdf).)

I thought the BC crowd just wanted their day in court? Here they get a full airing of the legal issues involved and....crickets.

It's almost like the real law is irrelevant but the make believe pretend stuff is oh so important.

Well, I'm out for awhile.

Always fun.

See you at the SOTU!

283

ya know if we trusted politicians and haven't caught them in a gazillion lies. many from Obama himself. I doubt this would be an issue.

  for instance Jennifer Brunner Ohio Secretary of State

A federal judge ruled this evening that Ohio Secretary of State Jennifer Brunner is breaking federal law by not giving county elections . so if this is what we face often. this is why questions come up.(this would be the type we count on? for verification?)

i'm not even a birther, (although that sounds insulting) the whole term "Birther", i might actually be one if i knew the right questions.

why let anyone label as a derogatory term. when it's a reasonable query. and if Obama were Transparent as he swore he would be.

284

 Why is it that yesterday Drudge and others say the Democrats were going to start running on the "Birther" issue and today we are pissing and moaning about it?

Excellent question, why did Matthews ask Hayworth about Barry's BC?

285

The "Birther" thing is toxic and gets nobody anywhere imho.  It would be wise at this point to let it go.  I would have liked it if he had produced an actual certificate, and the biggest issue I have with the whole thing is why a sitting president would (rather childishly) go to such lengths to fight any request for one -- just produce the damn thing, say "see, I told ya so", and be done.  End of doubt, end of divisiveness (but that's what he wants I think -- divisiveness and people making themselves into fools chasing a doubt, even if it started as a reasonable one).  If there is anything to go after him for, imho, it would be this: how irresponsible is it to one's country (which he is sworn to serve) to let this sort of thing drag on, when the key to stopping the kerfluffle is to just hand over the damn thing and be done with it?

For myself, I would be more interested in his transcripts...but interested most of all in seeing the results of a full psychological battery...

286  - some fantasy that Obama will be removed from office, or that you'll get to the truth of the Free Mason conspiracy?

Posted by: Mallamutt at January 27, 2010 03:25 PM (V9SYy)

Why is that anybody who wants to find out about this cipher that is sitting in the White House is derided as a "conspiracy nut"? That is ad hominem nonsense.

I worked with George W. Bush in the early 80's. Inknwo hundreds of people who have known him and Laura for decades. He was never a hidden or mysterious person at any level.

I can't say that about BHO. He seemed to have left few footprints, and his entire mysteriously funded undergraduate career, when he became seriously radicalized, is a complete blank.

Investigate away, I say...

287 299 So, no takers on Judge Carter's decision? (It's here (pdf).)

I thought the BC crowd just wanted their day in court? Here they get a full airing of the legal issues involved and....crickets.

Posted by: DrewM. at January 27, 2010 03:36 PM (UAnTc)  

Please.  If you have some lines from that decision that you think are yoru silver bullets, then post them, but don't just post a whole decision and say, "There!"

I guess you are bound to Roe v Wade and are convinced that the Constitution affords women the right to abortions whenever they want because the Court said so.  That seems to be your argument, now.  "The court said so!"

288

The court said so.   Classic.

 

 

 

289

274 just listened to yesterday's Mark Levin show

Get to the part yet where Levin told McCain and Co if they screw with him, he will sue them?  And specified what he will subpoena and that he will personally handle their depositions?

290 When that failed to happen, it was too late.

Constitutional eligibilty is a point of fact that does not come and go with elections.  If someone is ineligible to be President, then they CANNOT hold the office.  Period.  There's no statute of limitations saying that if you can lie your way past an election, you're in.  That's the difference between a Constitutional Republic and a Democracy.

Tell me, why do you think Roberts administered the oath twice to The Precedent?  What was at risk if he didn't administer the second oath, thinking that a word or two were incorrect in the first?

291 Once again this ridiculous 'issue' crops up and instead of saying -- Oh for the love of God. STFU, we get "well I guess it's OK to keep harping on this.

Let's sum up shall we :

A. Country going down by the bow on almost an infinite number of levels.
B. No jobs for YOU, or you,or you, or you for as far as the eye can see.
C. A really nasty ongoing war in Afghanistan and a constant threat from International Terror.
D. A narcissistic and arguably unqualified President presiding over a completely dysfunctional Congress.
E.  Corruption not the exception but now seemingly the rule.
F. A broken Financial System.
G. Something else important going South (fill in blank).

And this guy can't just STFU about this crappy little issue, which is identified with crazy people.
Bottom line --- If you need to have the birth certificate dooey to get your act on regarding BHO, you are in pretty sad shape to start with.
Birhters are marginally better than Truthers but the emphasis is heavy on the marginally. The opposition to Obama better not go there. They just had better not.

292

Posted by: Pelvis at January 27, 2010 03:47 PM (LlaBi)

McCain-Feingold was constitutional, and then it wasn't. Soon, it will be again.

Then when the people get pissed and armed, it won't be again.

293

unknown jane at January 27, 2010 03:37 PM

You said it so much better than I.

I'm jealous.

294 Posted by: Mallamutt at January 27, 2010 03:51 PM (V9SYy)

Of course I'm bound to it, legally, which is why there was a second part to that sentence, which was the meat of it - in analogy to the arguments Drew is offering here.  Maybe you can address the second, truly important part of my post?

295 The Natural Born Citizen clause needs definition thru legislation, not the Courts. Ron Paul should have raised the challenge when the Electoral College reported out to the House - although I am not sure what the rights of the minority are in the Committee of the Whole - as he didn't have any credibility to lose.

296

As he (Roberts)  said, an overabundance of caution.

Posted by: Mallamutt at January 27, 2010 03:53 PM (V9SYy)

Caution about what?  What could have happened if it were determined that a minor technicality of the oath of office was not administered correctly?  No one has standing to challenge the eligibility of The Precedent, so what difference could it have possibly made?  Did Roberts think that The Precedent was really NOT the Precedent until the second oath was administered?

297

This post is full of righteous Eeyorish hand-wringing. I won't condemn fellow Conservatives or tell them to "shut up". That's the Left's job.

I don't agree with the Birthers, but I won't condemn them or call them nuts.

298 The Natural Born Citizen clause needs definition thru legislation, not the Courts. 

Posted by: Jean at January 27, 2010 03:55 PM (tpEh1)

No.  The Constitution is not amended by legislation.  It is to the Court to define Constitutional definitions or there are amendments needed to provide those definitions.  The Constitution provides power to the various arms to define what it wants them to have control over (as with high crimes and misdemeanors, where it is left to the Legislative branch) but plain Constitutional wording is for the Court to clarrify, unless amended.

299 What honest American citizen wouldn't spend $2,000,000 on high powered attorneys to block access and or disclosure of their birth certificate and school records?  Get a brain!

300 Why is it that yesterday Drudge and others say the Democrats were going to start running on the "Birther" issue and today we are pissing and moaning about it?

Excellent question, why did Matthews ask Hayworth about Barry's BC?

No. That's NOT the question. The question is why this fool answered it. Ace keeps talking about the Stupid Party. Well  This is F****** STUPID. Your enemies TELL you they are laying a trap and you say, 'Can't trap me with that old trick'. Then ---- you leap into the trap.

Go McCain. Clean this guys clock. And then pick him up and clean it again just for the fun of it.

301 Natural Born Citizen is already defined by legislation - see the McCain act clarifing his eligibility and the very citizenship law in question that requires a women to have X years of residency, etc. The definition of Natural Born Citizen needs to be clearly defined - a very simple task for the new Republican House in 2011. I wonder if Obama would veto it?

302

Posted by: Mallamutt at January 27, 2010 03:51 PM (V9SYy)

Being legally bound to something is different than being morally bound.

Most Americans consider "bound" to mean morally bound, much like the people who actually wrote the Constitution.

303

Is this among one of the longest comment threads evah?  Says something...

Leftties branded this subject as untouchable so let's mess with it..  anyway, who

the hell spends 1 million + to avoid showing their birth certificate?  That's kind of cracked out behavior there . ... bottom line... B0's hiding something ... 

304 Natural Born Citizen is already defined by legislation - see the McCain act clarifing his eligibility and the very citizenship law in question that requires a women to have X years of residency, etc. The definition of Natural Born Citizen needs to be clearly defined - a very simple task for the new Republican House in 2011. I wonder if Obama would veto it?

Posted by: Jean at January 27, 2010 04:04 PM (vb5IK)

Congress does not have the power to define the 'natural born citizen' clause of the Constitution.  It's a separation of powers issue.  Congress was only given the power, by the Constitution, to make rules of naturalization, not to define the class of natural born - which makes sense because it was obvious to everyone at the time what natural born meant, to a good extent, and holding other citizenships was never part of it.  What the Senate did with McCain was meaningless.  Congress cannot make anyone a natural born citizen or even decide whether someone is natural born or not.  But I was glad that Congress, at least, tried to move on McCain.  It was thought, at the time, that that would force the Indonesian imbecile to come clean with his records ... but we all know how that went.

305 The birther issue is a loser issue. Repeat ten thousand times for effect.... A *loser* issue....

306 So, the conservative movement is pushing the issue to get a largely academic issue decided?

No ... the point of pushing the issue is that the Constitution should be followed, especialyy for the one specific are athat the Constitution was very partiucular about - and we know why, because the natural born clause was put in to stop (as much as possible) un-American foreigners from getting control of the Executive and the military.  As John Jay said to George washington in his july 1787 letter about the natural born clause:

<I>Permit me to hint whether it would not be wise and seasonable to provide a strong check to the admission of foreigners into the administration of our national government ; and to declare expressly that the command in chief of the American army shall not be given to, nor devolve on any but a natural born citizen. </i>

The answer you were referring to about getting an operational definition is the end of this particular fight (because people like you are claiming that you have no idea what natural born citizen means and that no one is even empowered to verify it - rendering it totally meaningless).  It is not the end of the larger fight, which is to remain true to the Constitution, especially about very easy things, like having the friggin' Precedent present proof of his eligibility to some official body, which was never done.

307 One of the reasons I can rattle off crap about Petition challenges is that I have actually volunteered my time for such fights. So, please, you want to pursue the birth certificate issue, feel free. But, as for me, I have already wasted enough time on a non-issue.

 

Posted by: Mallamutt at January 27, 2010 04:14 PM (V9SYy)

I never said I wanted to pursue the Birth Certificate issue, I was just saying that we conservatives should stop doing the Left's job of condemning other conservatives.

You could call me a "Transcript-er", however. I would like to see all the radicalized shit that BHO took that turned him into a hardcore Leftist sitting above the CIA and FBI, and to find out who funded his hyper-secret and strangely charmed $150,000 radical undergraduate education that he has spent millions of public and campaign funds to hide.

If that's a tinfoil hat, I'll be happy to wear it.

308

325-Obama is not who he says he is.  Pompous ass.

309 Too late peoples.

The mulatto mendacity signed an executive order his first day in office(EO 13489, Jan 21, 2009) sealing all records of the president from access by any person other than himself, and after his death, his wife, and her death, his daughters. The only possible access to his personal records is for the next president to sign another executive order resending that one.

It was the first think he officially did. (other than attending, and passing up, a bunch of parties after inauguration)

 

310

If JD gets in the general he will not do well.  There is a young attractive former Jag officer from Tucson the Ds will run.  JD is right on the issues,  but not loved by all,  neither is McCain for that matter but McCain would win the general.IMO

311 Mallamutt, I say this as your friend: you are coming off like Christoph right now. Please desist.

312 Kinda OT
I remember something about the passport files of all the presidential candidates being broken into-does anyone know what ever happened with that? It seemed fishy at the time and I don't recall hearing any more about it. As far as the BC goes, I too would be more interested in the college records but the O will never release anything. It's obvious he's hiding something, and will go to ridiculous lengths to keep whatever it is covered up. One day the truth will out, till then concentrate on defeating him and his minions.

313

"One doesn't need to believe any particular thing to stand for the proposition that given the Constitution only lays out two (?) prerequisites for assuming the most powerful office on earth -- age of 35 or older and "natural born" citizenship -- any candidate contending for that office should have the burden, without a lot of arguing about it, of proving his qualifications."

 

This has been my position.  I believe the problem with those using the legal path to get a look is that the only groups with standing are the States.  It is the states that approve a candidate to get on the ballot.

314 Perhaps you should read the link I provided, Hawaii has released statements (at least twice now) saying they have it

No...they have not.

In the first statement Fukino says they have a birth certificate on file...not that it was a state issued one.

In the second, she says they have the vital record showing he was born in HI. Notice the weasel words here?

...thing is...Hawai'i has in the past accepted an affidavit stating an person was born in HI to establish citizenship when in fact that person could have actually been born outside the country

So Dr. Fukino, who donated $600 dollars to the Republican party in 2006, lied about records he had access to to ensure that the Democratic candidate would still be eligible. Obviously Dr. Fukino was deep undercover.

Let's recap, Obama recruits Dr. Fukino at least 2 years before his presidential run, convinces him to donate $600 to the Republican party to establish his bona fides, all in order for him to some day release a so-called "weasel-worded" statement convincing people Obama's a natural born citizen. Then, when the time is ripe, Obama releases (what Birthers call an "obviously forged") copy of his COLB. You'd think with Dr. Fukino's help, he could've done better, but I guess I just don't get the intricacies of the plan. I wonder if the Republican governor was in on it, too, if Obama has a whole nest of double agents within the Republican party. Not to mention the foresight his parents showed by placing his birth announcement in a Hawaii newspaper. It's a riddle wrapped in an enigma dipped in pudding!

I apologize for even thinking Birthers are nuts.

315 Darii, I'm not interested in Obama providing his birth certificate because "it helps stop Democrats". I'm interested in him providing it because he OUGHT to.

316 How about getting a state law passed somewhere that requires the SOS to verify and post the relevant documents ( long form BC please) before putting a name on the ballot?

317 Or an Amendment to define Natural Born Citizenship and to clarify who has standing to challenge this assertion, and what form of proof it takes....Just so...ya know, WE DON'T EVER HAVE TO HAVE THIS CONVERSATION AGAIN.....that is all.

318 Barack Obama obviously met the requirements to get on the ballot.  Maybe you should ask those states' election officials who certified the ballot if he met the legal requirements?

319 "(Also, I never really thought "Birtherism" was as toxic an issue as some believe -- " Uh...Ace, I think you pretty much wrote several paragraphs about how this issue HAD to be dropped for the sake of the Party. A couple of times. Perhaps it was the Nyquil and vodka that fogged your memory? Personally I'd like to see the paper.

320 330 Eric - that EO is much the better topic - why did he order everything sealed, if he's so honest and transparent?  That he's like most modern leftists, a utopian fantasist, is something to be taken for granted; but so many of these fantasists peddle all sorts of phony "documentation", from academic fakes like Ward Churchill and that Belessiles (sp.?) fellow with his bogus gun book, through the TANG forgery, to the first version of the "birth certificate" posted, to the latest fake military hero, to the crowning achievement, namely the whole "Climategate" mess.  A better issue is the flood of BS and coverups these rats peddle to a gullible public.

321

Excellent question, why did Matthews ask Hayworth about Barry's BC?

Posted by: Dougf at January 27, 2010 04:03 PM

Because Matthews had read the questions the DNC recoommended asking Repubs.   The memo urges Democratic candidates to force their opponents to answer a series of questions on health care, taxes and some of the favorite causes of the far right:

“Do you believe that Barack Obama is a U.S. citizen? Do you think the 10th Amendment bars Congress from issuing regulations like minimum health care coverage standards? Do you think programs like Social Security and Medicare represent socialism and should never have been created in the first place? Do you think President Obama is a socialist? Do you think America should return to a gold standard?”

322

Please.  If you have some lines from that decision that you think are yoru silver bullets, then post them, but don't just post a whole decision and say, "There!"

I guess you are bound to Roe v Wade and are convinced that the Constitution affords women the right to abortions whenever they want because the Court said so.  That seems to be your argument, now.  "The court said so!"
Posted by: progressoverpeace at January 27, 2010 03:40 PM (A46hP)

Gee,where did I get the idea you and others would prefer to deal with fantasy level shit you spew out on the internet instead of actual court cases.

Why should I bother going through the case and chopping it up into small pieces for you when you can't be bothered to read it yourself?

My argument isn't 'the court said so', it's here's what the court said. perhaps that's a good place to start dealing with the actual legal issues involved. And your response seems to come down to, 'who cares what a court says'.

It's that type of position that makes a lot of birther types look like nutty conspiracy theorists.  There seems to be a lot more interest in baseless theories than actual issues and laws.

323 It's not about him being born in Hawaii. It's the fact his father wasn't an American citizen. He can't be natural born unless both parents are American citizens, his dad was a British subject. Zero even admitted this, yet still, people carry on about him not being born in Hawaii. Doesn't mean two shits if he was or not, his dad's lack of US Citizenship disqualifies him.

324 Ace, I must say, that is a distinct change in attitude from all those emails you and I exchanged over this issue last July... The only questions I asked was, "Where's the birth certificate." The question you've just defended as being valid. As I recall, you were insistent that I provide the evidence that Barrack wasn't an American citizen, when the Constitutional burden of proof lies upon the candidate who desires to become president. I quote: "dude it is a conspiracy theory.  By definition." "Well, offer evidence. You have taken some  things on faith. Fine. Don't expect others to, though." "it's a simple question.  I don't know the answers.  I also happen to know that people like you are becoming insufferable as you insist other people follow you off the cliff in a doomed leap of faith "Believe me, believe me, BELIEVE ME!" is not an argument. tell you what -- you flog your theory, I'll stick things really going on in the news. division of labor." Now, you say that it is a reasonable question... I think that it is quite all right for a person to change their minds as their knowledge base changes and grows, but in view of such prior vehemence, both public and private, a reasonable explanation is in order.

325 I love conspiracy theories when they are not completely stupid.  I keep wondering if the democratic leadership did not pick Obama because he is so easy to control.  After all, congress cans subpoena his birth certificate any time they want to.  WND implies that Pelosi knows the truth.  They seem to have cause to dump Obama anytime they want to.
http://tinyurl.com/qv87zt
Except he may have figured this out in August and showed a little bit of low cunning.  He picked a total dufus for VP and they are afraid to get rid of Obama.  You cannot control a senile ass that cannot remember what you want him to do.  This is the best explanation for Biden I have ever come up with.

326 If a person is found ineligible after the electoral college votes, then the person with the next-highest number of electoral votes becomes president.  It used to be that second person was the vice-president, when the loser of the race took the job.  Today, that would be McCain.

327 Both parents have to be citizens for him to be eligible.

328 Ok, Hayworth asks the question...Obama is removed by a 5-4 SCOTUS decision. McCain assumes office. Hayworth runs in Senate Primary unopposed.

329 #320 Why didn't McCain clean B+rry's clock?

330

Bush released his college transcripts...why doesn't B+rry?

Betch his name isn't the same.