1 I was waiting for a thread on this. I figured it would get a flaming skull.

Is this good or bad? I think it is a toss-up.

2 ASSEMBLE THE CIRCULAR FIRING SQUAD POST HASTE!

3 Ooooh, looks like they are holding the American people hostage!

4 Is this good or bad? I think it is a toss-up.

Bad for the country, worse for the Democrats.  So eventually, good for the country.  I think.

5 Hill 4.5 % is the one to die on ? Thank God these socialist imbeciles in the House will soon be gone.

6

Speechy McSpeecherton couldn't convince his fellow Democrats to swallow the sh*t sandwich.

Clinton could have.  He would have convinced them that the middle-class tax cuts and the unemployment extension was necessary and the fact that a few rich people wouldn't be raped was a small price to pay.

7 Poor people hardest hit!

8 Looks like there's a chance that the GOP might have to pass the Stupid Party label over to the Dems.

9 You think the Rs will stand on that promise that no other votes will happen in the Senate until this gets taken care of?  This could kill everything else we're worried about in the lame duck.

10 In lieu of a flaming skull, I think we could use some meteors

11 shit happens

12 I saw on Fox that the vote is non-binding and that it is only meant to make the Senate move first.  So if the Senate passes it, then the House will vote on it. 

Maybe I misheard? 


In any event, I really don't understand what the Democrats think they're accomplishing.  It's bizarre.  Even given the surge of populism in the country, at the end of the day most normal people look at their own pocket books first and foremost.  If their taxes go up, there's no solace (for most) in knowing that "the rich" (which is what now? I've forgotten... $200K/individuals, $150K, or is it ace's $65K figure) are also taking a hit. 

13 good- without a tax bill, then nothing will get done in the lame duck. Couldn't work out to much better for us

14 I keep thinking that this is some clever legislative maneuver by Obama and later it will be revealed that there was some masterful strategy at work. Then I remember that it's Obama.

15

Oooh, this gives the GOP the perfect issue to hang around the Dims neck for a while, namely that they want a double-dip recessions instead of passing tax relief that will get the economy going again.

Not that they'll do it with Steele in charge, though.

16 Reposting what I said in the ONT last night.

I'd love to see the deal passed just to watch exactly this sort of thing [cranial explosions] happen with liberals everywhere, and to otherwise damage Obama with his base, perhaps permanently.... but after tepid support for it (figuring that the tax cuts couldn't be allowed to expire), I realized today that the whole thing is a trap.  The entire thing is being framed by the Dems and the media as a "tax cut" when in fact it is nothing of the sort, but rather a locking-in of tax rates at the current level.  When the economy goes further to shit, Obama and his party will be able to run on "look what tax cuts did to us" in 2012, when this entire fight will be scheduled to be re-staged.  It's no accident that the deal locks in the current rates only until then.

Better for this deal to fall apart, the cuts to expire, and the GOP House to pass real, retroactive tax cuts next year.  Yes, it will bring about short-term pain and a lot of risk, but this deal just stinks.

17 I can't even begin to tell you folks what hilarious and wonderful news this is.  From a strategy perspective WE CANNOT LOSE HERE, PEOPLE.

As far as the Republicans are concerned, this is a private dispute among Democrats.  They made their deal, and they're ready to go (so is the Democratic Senate); it's the House Democrats holding this up.

So we should just sit back, and smile, and make sure Obama realizes he can call the Democrats' bluff: what are they going to do, be the party that raised taxes on all Americans AND let unemployment benefits lapse?  The GOP would LOVE to let the Dems own that, if they really want to hold up this deal until January when Boehner takes the gavel.

Bring it on, Nancy.

18

I make so little in taxable income, it's almost worth it to me that this compromise collapses just to embarass the Indonesian in the White House.

It's almost as if they elected someone with no verifiable work history. Wow.

 

19 This is beyond stupid.  In their zeal to jack up taxes on those in the top brackets, the Dems are now going to wind up having a much less palatable bill shoved down their throats in January, while allowing the GOP to look like white knights by lowering taxes on the middle class.  Unbelievable.

20 9 You think the Rs will stand on that promise that no other votes will happen in the Senate until this gets taken care of?

Hell no.

21 No. No, you can't get away. From hell's heart, I stab at thee. For hate's sake, I spit my last breath at thee.

22

I'm torn, hopefully the pubes will be able to clean up some of the loose shit in the bill. Take the unemployment money out of the unspent stimulus...DUH!

 

23 Must be tiring to spend your entire adult life worried sick that someone, somewhere, is enjoying the fruits of their labor. 

24 We're all hostages now.

25

Clinton could have.  He would have convinced them that the middle-class tax cuts and the unemployment extension was necessary and the fact that a few rich people wouldn't be raped was a small price to pay.

Posted by: AmishDude at December 09, 2010 12:10 PM (BvBKY)

Slick's one act of non-coerced politicking that helped the nation was bending donk elbows for NAFTA.  Of course all recent commiecrat attack ads don't mention that inconvenient truth and count on the voters to be too fucking dumb to know it.  Other than that, and the stuff the post-94 Repub Congress forced him to do, Clenis was a complete washout.

26 Excellent, this should provide cover for the Senate 42 to maintain filibuster on everything...and give the 112th better tax code. BUT DOES THIS MEAN DEC 15th MARKET MELTDOWN? because no tax law passed?

27 Fuck you, Barry.

28
House Republicans to the conservative base: Fuck you.

Hal Rogers (KY-5), dinosaur and longtime political hack, will be the next chairman of the Appropriations Committee.

He has a reputation for pork, for bipartisanship, and for straying off the conservative reservation if it helps him in his ne'er do-well district.

I guess it was "his turn." So it's cool.

Oh, and he says he's for the earmarks ban.

Riiiiiiiiiiight.

29 @6 doesn't matter what clinton could have done...this guy only knows thug tactics...which work in small town setting, but not large national and global arenas...he's a dumbfuck and can not grasp the american spirit/thinking...he's not one of us, he wasn't raised to be one of us, and he and his fugly wife have over extended their welcome by more than 2 years already

30 Is this good or bad? I think it is a toss-up.
Posted by: Vic at December 09, 2010 12:07 PM

Yeah. As in "toss up your breakfast."

I've given up on the idea that Congress will ever understand reality. What we're seeing is a push to spend even more, and at a faster rate than increased taxes could possibly cover.

At some point, this is going to turn ugly. It may require that word not allowed at TepidAir to even make a small start at fixing the damage our D.C. royalty, both Repub and Dem, have done.

I can't be the only one fantasizing about seeing 536 out-of-touch crooks (Congress, plus the Mohammedan Mouthpiece) in chains, being loaded onto buses with barred windows.

31 BUT DOES THIS MEAN DEC 15th MARKET MELTDOWN?

Maybe, but that can be overcome.  Destroying the country with permanent, unalterable changes (Dream Act, anyone) can't be.  I'm happy if this plays out. 

32 You think the Rs will stand on that promise that no other votes will happen in the Senate until this gets taken care of?

Hell no.

They have already had a test vote and at least 1 Republican crossed over on the Dream Amenesty Act

33 I won! Wait, what??

34

I actually believe the dems in this case, know what they're doing.  They saw what happened in the negotiations yesterday.   They saw that the republicans are digging their heels in on earmarks.  So they've concluded that the repubs aren't really going to change anything drastically so what do they have to lose?

It will be politics as usual and the repubs will be just as damaged as the dems, in the end.   And, as evidenced by the dems themselves of late, they have lost all faith in Obama and are probably hoping for a primary challenge for '12.

35 Ready to lead from Day One!

36 @31, I agree. But I want to know if I should put 401K funds in money market for next month as the politics will drive an easily predictable market plunge. Sometimes you can time the market.

37 Politically, it's the best outcome possible.

Economically, not so much.

38

If you like your unemployment, you can keep....

Oh wait, shit! Who writes this crap for me??

 

39 It's a non-binding vote, for whatever that's worth.

40 I dont' know about you guys,

but, I luvs me the sound of stampy-feet an' sippy-cup banging.

41

Heh, I love being prescient. Click on my handle for the post I penned just a  scant few hours ago...

Time to pop the popcorn.

42

'This year, they're giving you higher taxes. You're welcome, America!"

And, in response, enough of The Country That Used To Be America squeals with glee to make sure that the pols will always do stuff like this.

43 Gibbsy's having a 1 PM press conference (presumably on all the news channels, and definitely streaming at CNN).  He really hates it when people pick on his girlfriend, so things might get a little testy.

44 I just visited DKos so that you won't have to.  The article there says that this was a non-binding symbolic vote, and that House leadership is still going to bring this to the floor, where it is expected to pass largely on Republican votes.  Harry Reid says he will bring it to the Senate afterward.

I'm going to go take another shower now; I feel dirty just going there to read.

45 i just thinks it is fun to see the Ds turn on the won...and in less than 2 years

bwahahaha

46

12 I saw on Fox that the vote is non-binding and that it is only meant to make the Senate move first.  So if the Senate passes it, then the House will vote on it. 

I don't expect them to read the Constitution but I do expect them to remember their mistakes.  The Senate can't pass it first.

But can't Pelosi get some Republicans on board to vote to bring it to the floor?

47

Last year, Nancy Pelosi and the Democrats gave you ObamaCare for Christmas.

With a note that said "Do not open until December 25, 2014."

(Which wouldn't have been so bad if they hadn't put it on my MasterCard.)

48 16 When the economy goes further to shit, Obama and his party will be able to run on "look what tax cuts did to us" in 2012...
_________

Whadda ya mean? There was a Democrat on Fox News last Sunday saying that the Bush tax cuts were what caused the recession in the first place. They're already blaming the tax cuts!

49 You know I could give a flying leap at a doughnut who this favors politically. The bottom line is my taxes are going up, people who previously didn't have to pay taxes are going to be getting a cold splash of water in the face and our economic woes are going to continue.

The one question I want answered is why do the other 200+ Dems in congress choose to represent San Fran and the kooks in CA rather then their own districts, most of which because of their misguided policies are in the worst shape?

The message is simple. The Dems aren't soaking the rich, they are punishing America for kicking them out of office.

50 Obama's getting mugged by reality.  He'll be joining the Heritage Foundation before you know it.  By 2012, he'll be labeled a Hayekian Neobamacon.  Or toast. 

51 Will the Republicans have enough brains/balls to take this message to America that the Democrat party is more interested in penalizing "the rich" than helping the nation overall? It's a message that everyone can grasp and the Repubs can bash the Dims over the head with

52

Obama manages to drive the bus and get thrown under it at the same time.  I'll have another Slurpee, please.

53

Wait, these Democrats are opposed to what Obama wants?  Racists!  Racists!  RAAAAACIIIIISSSTS!!!

54 If the deal goes bad, the dems and Obama will get the blame. HA HA HA HA HA They are making it easier for 2012 by the day. Sarah says thanks! ha ha

55

The article there says that this was a non-binding symbolic vote, and that House leadership is still going to bring this to the floor, where it is expected to pass largely on Republican votes.  Harry Reid says he will bring it to the Senate afterward.

That makes sense.

So this ridiculous vote does nothing but make Obama look weak.  Well done, Democrats, well done.

56 You racist shitbags!

57 And, as evidenced by the dems themselves of late, they have lost all faith in Obama and are probably hoping for a primary challenge for '12. Posted by: Hussein the Plumber at December 09, 2010 12:19 PM (RkRxq) I wonder who would do it if Hillary won't. (I don't actually believe anything she says, but let's just pretend.) Kerry? Chuck Shumer? Would Bloomie swing back to the Dems if he thought he had a chance? It would be hella fun if it actually happened.

58

House Dems say that they will "do something right for the economy and right for jobs?"

Great news. Your resignations are accepted, with the thanks of a grateful nation.

Now beat it.

59 I get a feeling that Zero will be playing a hellova lotta golf over the next two years.

60 I think it will still pass. The liberal whack jobs love to stomp their feet to show the daily kooks how progressive they are, but in the end it passes I bet.

61

House Dems say that they will "do something right for the economy and right for jobs?"

Oh, so now they finally decide to do something positive for us lowly proles?

Fuck you very much.

62 I don't know - in a way it makes Obama look centrist, and besieged by crazies on both sides.  Sure, I don't like it and neither do the real lefties, but nobody on this site will ever vote for him, and who else are the lefties going to vote for?  He's making himself look reasonable and centrist to appeal to the mush-minded slugs known as "independents" and "moderates".  Go over to Althouse's blog (and wear an Ewok costume while there)- she is totally drinking the Kool-Aid on this.

63 TO: America

FROM: Democrats

SUBJECT: Drop Dead

64 Popcorn.  And Slurpies.   Yum.

65 The commercial writes itself: 'Last year, Nancy Pelosi and the Democrats gave you ObamaCare for Christmas.' 'This year, they're giving you higher taxes. You're welcome, America!' I'm sure the RNC will be all over this one. What a great commercial to run in the days leading up to Christmas. Ahahahaha, like that's going to happen.

66 She Who Must Be Obeyed and I are giving each other a large-screen TV for Christmas.   It'll be perfect for watching the show to come. 

That is, if the Republicans somehow manage to hold on to their testicular fortitude.

67 Maybe premature here:

From Fox

The vote came after 54 Democrats, led by Rep. Peter Welch of Vermont, signed a letter in opposition to the tax cut deal. The 54 Democrats, by themselves, would not be enough to block the package in the House, depending on how much support it gets from Republicans. But the caucus vote could shake things up.

68 Damn.  I was still working on that green stuff thread.  Somebody holler next time. 

69

TO: Congressional Democrats

FROM: President Obama

SUBJECT: My itchy nose

mIn,

70 Great. Drudge has a picture of Botox smiling at the top of his page and the words "THE PARTY OF NO" for his headline. Heh.

71 61 I get a feeling that Zero will be playing a hellova lotta golf over the next two years.

Let's hope so.  Better for him to abuse his 9 iron and the golf scoring system than continuing to abuse the American taxpayer.  He's done enough damage.

Gridlock will keep additional deteroiration in check, but how the damage Obama and the Dems have already done to the under-structure of the American economy will be repaired...I cannot say. 

72 Instead of a flaming skull, Ace should post pudding or popcorn.

Heh, blue-state on blue-state political feuding, in public no less! Yeah, a double-dip recession will likely result on this, and the Donks will own it for 2012! Note, parts of this whole argument are subject to change next month when the Republican-dominated House comes into being. Ditto the DREAM and DADT bills.

73

64 I don't know - in a way it makes Obama look centrist, and besieged by crazies on both sides.

Maybe, but Obama doesn't pull it off very well.

I'm just wary of thinking that everything Democrats do is some super-secret 5-moves ahead chess play.

He is not trying to get these passed so that he can turn around after the economy doesn't fully recover and say "see, I told you so."  He doesn't get re-elected and his legacy doesn't improve by him purposefully sabotaging the economy and bragging about it.

If you think he will spend the next 2 years triangulating, then this has to be the first of many actions to keep the left at bay.  One bill won't cut it.

I agree that he's picked up the Clinton 94-96 playbook and will stick to it.  But Obama isn't Clinton and, like I said, Clinton could convince the Dems that they were going to like what he shoved down their throats.  He knew how to play at being a centrist.  Obama's heart isn't in it, and it shows.

74 65 TO: America

FROM: Democrats

SUBJECT: Drop Dead.  Merry Fucking Christmas.

FIFY. 

75 anyone want some popcorn infused Val-U-Rite?  

it makes a tasty breakfast, and it's not like i have a j*b to go to or anything....

76 I wonder how this will effect the GOP pledge to allow nothing else to pass in the Senate until the tax bill moves.  With no House version, will the GOP still consider a Senate version sufficient cause to allow other legislation to move to a vote?

77 46

12 I saw on Fox that the vote is non-binding and that it is only meant to make the Senate move first.  So if the Senate passes it, then the House will vote on it. 

I don't expect them to read the Constitution but I do expect them to remember their mistakes.  The Senate can't pass it first.

---

I know, which was very confusing when I heard that.  But I've gotten the sense there are a lot of rules being broken lately.  And, maybe by "pass it" they meant some other procedural thing involving committees... ? 

I'm more worried about my personal finances than the political fallout from this.

Does anyone have a link to a site that provides an estimate for how much our taxes will go up? 

78 iknowtheleft®© - more pins

79 Damn. Drudge changed the headline from The Party Of No to just No. Nutless wonder.

80 If their taxes go up, there's no solace (for most) in knowing that "the rich" (which is what now? I've forgotten... $200K/individuals, $150K, or is it ace's $65K figure) are also taking a hit.

I'm not so sure about that. Conservatives always underestimate how much people enjoy watching The Man stick it to Whitey, Richey, etc, because we arrive at our economic positions via logic, facts, math, etc and not emotion.  For example, the people who only had lousy gov't health insurance liked Obamacare not because they were going to get anything more than lousy gov't health insurance, but because it meant those awful jumped-up working people wouldn't be able to get anything more than lousy gov't health insurance.  All the snarking about "if they really believe that, they should be writing extra checks to the Treasury" fails to take into account that their motivation for begging for higher tax rates is to force other people to pay more. 

81

Pelosi spokesman Brendan Daly said that “this means we will not bring this [agreement] to the floor as is. It has to be changed.” Daly would not outline what revisions House Democrats specifically are seeking, but he did say that Pelosi would stand by today’s caucus resolution…

Change We Believe In

82 Drudge headline from The Party Of No to just No.

skipped past just say no

83 but how the damage Obama and the Dems have already done to the under-structure of the American economy will be repaired...

Hey you guys said you wanted it out of the ditch. You didn't tell us you wanted to be able to drive it again.

84 Is that smoke I smell???  Where muh Fiddle!

85

I used to think that the GOP was the stupid party and the Dems were the evil party.  How will the GOP manage its branding when there are two stupid parties?

86

I'm more worried about my personal finances than the political fallout from this. Posted by: Y-not at December 09, 2010 12:39 PM

This is one of those times when I begin to resent the hell out of all the people who are talking about political "nuance" and who will "own" this.

The likelihood of my actually finding a job is low enough thanks to changes in my "business," and will decrease even more when the fallout from all this Congressional diddling hits.

Too many people playing the game and forgetting that actual human beings are taking it in the shorts. Oddly enough, all of them have steady paychecks. For now.

87 In other news..

Wesley Snipes begins 3 year prison sentence, for doing the same thing as Charlie Rangel.

88 Not only is this "non-binding" but it is also meaningless. The news people are just ginning up hype. As per the post I put up there above there are NOT enough Dems voting to block to actually block it unless the get significant support from Republicans too.

Let's not jump all over this too fast now.

89 Run out the guns. This is Obama's biggest bitch slap since Chicago lost the Olympics.

90 I'm a little confused. Don't the tax cuts expire on New Years, or around there? If they do, then don't Obama and the Dems get what they want? When Boehner proposes a bill for the same tax cuts next congress, won't Obama just veto it?

91

NO, you may not have a pay raise Bob Citizen!...

Oh, and no Coal for the fire either... so stop mining for it!

92

Via thehill:

Sponsored by Rep. Peter DeFazio (D-Ore.), the resolution says simply that Democrats oppose floor action of the tax deal in its current form. 

"We have tremendous concerns about what was given away by the White House," DeFazio told reporters in the Capitol basement after the vote. 

DeFazio said the voice vote was "virtually unanimous," with only one or two members expressing dissent. 

Nice....

93 GOOD.

Let the dems take full credit for higher taxes.  Great news.
Sure.. it will suck for a month .. but the new congress will pass it in short order after every fucking American see's for themselves that the BUSH tax cuts affected everyone.

94 Obama manages to drive the bus and get thrown under it at the same time.  I'll have another Slurpee, please.

GUMBY!

95

I don't expect them to read the Constitution but I do expect them to remember their mistakes.  The Senate can't pass it first.

Posted by: Y-not at December 09, 2010 12:39 PM (IDL9N)

Are you serious? Are you serious?

96 after every fucking American see's for themselves that the BUSH tax cuts affected everyone.

lest you forget the 50% who pay no taxes...I suppose Bush enabled those by not altering

97

Rush just mentioned that since The Vapid One™ said that all the economists he's talked to say this is the right thing to do for the economy, the GOP should propose a real tax cut for everyone and then see what he does.

This just keeps getting better.

98

Congrats. The tax rate on the poorest Americans will increase 50%.

Democrats, the party of the working man

99 102

I don't expect them to read the Constitution but I do expect them to remember their mistakes.  The Senate can't pass it first.

Posted by: Y-not at December 09, 2010 12:39 PM (IDL9N)

Are you serious? Are you serious?

Posted by: Nancy 'Khan' Pelosi at December 09, 2010 12:50 PM (h0RtZ)

Why bother?  We don't...

100

Nancy is going to go down with the ship?

Excellent...

101 Who's the "Party of No" now?

102 "Fuck you," I explained.

103 Here's some info on the effects of letting the Bush tax cuts expire.  It doesn't show it, but I read somewhere else that the lowest bracket will be raised from 10% up to 15%. 

I'd still love to see a calculator, though.

@92
This is one of those times when I begin to resent the hell out of all the people who are talking about political "nuance" and who will "own" this.

I couldn't agree with you more, MrScribbler.  I assume that the folks who take that view are naive (as I was prior to job losses and pay freezes that both my husband and I have suffered over the past few years), but I suppose some of them are just assholes.  The folks who sling around pejoratives about people on unemployment based on wild assumptions, generalizations, and no data, are the latter.  (I am not unemployment, fwiw.)

104 O/T  Riots in London over a TRIPLING of Tuition...

105 Rush says the public house vote will happen tomorrow and will be passed. This is all for show today.

106
lest you forget the 50% who pay no taxes...I suppose Bush enabled those by not altering

Posted by: maverick muse at December 09, 2010 12:51 PM (H+LJc)

Enough will see it... in their paycheck.  Doesnt matter if they get money back at tax time.. the paycheck will be less.

107

Nancy is going to go down with the ship?

Excellent...

I keep forgetting this.  She was -- after an epic electoral failure -- just made the new Minority Leader and she couldn't even keep the caucus together.

Nice...

108 107

Nancy is going to go down with the ship?

Excellent...

Posted by: garrett at December 09, 2010 12:52 PM (I2dug)

Nancy's here?

109 Heh. Nice photo of Nancy "Jazz Hands" Pelosi on Drudge.

110 Drudge must have up a doozy. It won't even load.

111 This whole theatrical fight between Obama and the House Dems is complete bullshit.  They worked this all out to make Obama look like he was standing up to the far left wing while all the while knowing House Dems would block it.

Complete snow job.

112

I keep forgetting this.  She was -- after an epic electoral failure -- just made the new Minority Leader and she couldn't even keep the caucus together.

Nice...

Posted by: AmishDude at December 09, 2010 12:54 PM (BvBKY)

Nope... power play between Nancy and Obama over who will run the legislative agenda.

Remeber, Obama was abscent for the last two years, the Nancy and Reid ran the whole agenda... and want to retain their power.

113 Good for Nancy! You go girl! Stop any bills at all in this lame duck.

You want to suggestion for a new amendment? All bills passed in lame duck sessions between election day and the start of the new congress shall require 2/3s votes of both Houses and the President's signature to become law.

The budget, the tax rates, DADT, Immigration...this are all issues which office holders should have to vote on before facing the voters or give up their shot to vote on it till the next Congress is seated.


END THIS DAMN SESSION NOW!

114

To resurrect an old AOS joke:

My genital lice only reproduce at teh rate of 125 eggs per female!

Thanks, Nancy!!!

115 This is surreal.

Just a few days ago it looked like the choice was between (1) raising taxes so that we can keep the recovery going through increased government spending (the Dem position), or (2) keeping taxes lower so that businessmen can keep more money and hire more people, thereby stimulating the recovery through private sector spending (the GOP position, which I share).

But somehow, we wound up with a compromise that keeps taxes lower while increasing government spending even more.  While I understand that both the far left and the far right are enraged by what they perceive as their respective party's duplicity, I'm calling bullshit on the centrists that put this deal together, as it simply can't lead to anything good for the economy.  At best, it kicks the can (and an assload of debt) down the road a couple of more years.

Apparently the only thing that everyone agrees on is that Nancy Pelosi is a fucking idiot.

116 DeMint says he'll vote no. He wants the Bush cuts to be made permanent. Well, No Jim, you fucking douche, we want to lower taxes in the future not just maintain. You fucking purity cock sucker.

117
Yes I will vote for the dems in 2012

But first they will SNOW ME

118 Drudge may be under a wikiLeaks attack

119 Gridlock, you magnificent bastard, I read your book!

120 The wet dream act just got shelved in the Senate.

121 Congrats. The tax rate on the poorest Americans will increase 50%.Democrats, the party of the working man
Posted by: Ben


Details, if the current tax rates are not renewed:

the 10%, 15%, 25%, 28%, 33% and 35% tax brackets that weÂ’ve grown accustomed to will be replaced by 15%, 28%, 31%, 36%, and 39.6% brackets.

ItÂ’s hard to say exactly where the income cutoffs will lie, but if we base the numbers on the  2010 income tax brackets and add 3% for inflation, the 2011 tax brackets might look something like this:

Tax Bracket     Married Filing Jointly     Single
15% Bracket     $0 – $70,040     $0 – $35,020
28% Bracket     $70,040 – $141,419     $35,020 – $84,872
31% Bracket     $141,419 – $215,528     $84,872 – $177,006
36% Bracket     $215,528 – $384,860     $177,006 – $384,860
39.6% Bracket     Over $384,860     Over $384,860

Beyond the increased federal income tax brackets, the capital gains tax rates will also be changing (and not for the better). The top rate for long-term capital gains will be rising from 15% to 20%, and the 0% rate for those in the lowest tax brackets will be replaced by a 10% long-term capital gains rate.

fivecentnickel.com



So, pretty much everyone in the middle class goes into the 28% bracket or higher.

122 O/T  Riots in London over a TRIPLING of Tuition...

We have never seen any evidence that these are "students" and the riots are about tuition. The last time I looked at that crowd it looked like the same anarchist/communist agitators that show up at every G-20 conference.

123 While we catch our breath and wait for the next outrage five minutes from now, can anyone please explain why Gov. Crist has such a hard-on about pardoning Jim Morrison?

124   At best, it kicks the can (and an assload of debt) down the road a couple of more years.

You think you people would be thanking me.

125

So the taxes for everyone go up. People get pissed because the middle class taxes go up too. GOP proposes cutting taxes again for everyone, Obama threatens to veto anything cutting taxes on the "rich", proposes a compromise to again cut taxes on just the middle class. GOP either agrees and cooperates with Obama or keeps the middle class taxes high while they hold out for tax cuts for the "rich". Media has collective orgasm.

I confess I havn't really paid a whole lot of super close attention to this issue. But people seem happy and I'm looking at the situation and not seeing a whole lot to be overjoyed about. Somebody wanna set me straight?

126 The wet dream act just got shelved in the Senate.

No, it got "delayed" and 1 R violated the agreement and crossed over.

127
2009: The Won tells House Republicans "I Won", House Republicans reply "Piss off!"

2010: The Won tells House Democrats "I Won", House Democrats reply "Piss off!"

My, what a difference a year and change makes!

128 OT - While the Dems play games with our finanical future, a new Cuban Missile crisis scenario may come from S. America in the near future.  And Obama is no JFK...

Iran Placing Medium-Range Missiles in Venezuela; Can Reach the U.S.

Iran is planning to place medium-range missiles on Venezuelan soil, based on western information sources, according to an article in the German daily, Die Welt, of November 25, 2010. According to the article, an agreement between the two countries was signed during the last visit o Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez to Tehran on October19, 2010. The previously undisclosed contract provides for the establishment of a jointly operated military base in Venezuela, and the joint development of ground-to-ground missiles.

/In the end, there will be only chaos. 

129

So, pretty much everyone in the middle class goes into the 28% bracket or higher.

Well poopers.

130 why Gov. Crist has such a hard-on about pardoning Jim Morrison?

Because he is an idiot.

131 111 O/T  Riots in London over a TRIPLING of Tuition...   I was in England when this was being discussed.   Let me describe the old system.  Under the old system, there was no tuition at all.  The government gave aid to every (there are no private) university and quotas for students in certain areas (you don't choose your major after applying to the school).   Not too long ago, the government reduced aid but permitted universites to charge up to 3000 pounds tuition to EU citizens and unlimited to students outside the EU.   Recently, the Cameron government talked about lifting the caps on tuition that universities could charge but that aid would almost all disappear.  Apparently, that's a reality now.   The problem is that they came from a totally socialist system.  So, if there was a slot, you could major in art history.  Government decided how many art historians there could be.  My guess is that it didn't work out so well.   So now, you will have to choose an area of study that will enable you to earn back enough money to pay the tuition.  This makes sense because it's insulting for people who don't go to college to subsidize people who do so that they can earn a lot more money.   Now, I'm sure you're asking, why don't they adopt a US-style system for some of their universities (I think Cambridge and Oxford might just go private) and that is to charge a low tuition for UK citizens, a higher one for non-UK EU and then full freight for outside the EU students.  Certainly US state schools have differential tuition depending on which state you're a resident of.   Well...that's illegal by EU rules.  And the UK gets screwed on that.  Everybody wants to be educated in the UK, not just at OxCam but they'd rather be at a second-rate English-speaking university than a second-rate German-speaking one.

132

Pixy, damn you.  I did have paragraphs.

133 Well, No Jim, you fucking douche, we want to lower taxes in the future not just maintain.

Then all the more reason for DeMint to vote no.

134

You think the Rs will stand on that promise that no other votes will happen in the Senate until this gets taken care of?  This could kill everything else we're worried about in the lame duck.


Well, the DREAM act got pulled from a floor vote, so maybe . . .

135 ADJOURN! End this farce of a session now!

136 do you understand what this does to payrolls? year end is stressful enough for businesses......

137 Posted by: Y-not at December 09, 2010 12:53 PM

I'm thinking I have to stay away from here until the ONT, or later.

I don't give a flying fuck if or how this affects any of the pampered scum of either party in Congress. Nor do I give a damn if it gives the Traitor-in-Chief (whose comfortable future is assured, no matter what happens) momentary upset.

All of those fuckwits can get on their taxpayer-subsidized flights home (or wherever else they want to go) and/or enjoy their taxpayer-subsidized holidays.

That the anal-ysts are having a field day means nothing to me. All I see are fewer chances for employment and more misery for real human beings (yes, like me).

Fuck you very much, politicians and political junkies. Have a happy day!

138 While the Dems play games with our finanical future, a new Cuban Missile crisis scenario may come from S. America in the near future.  And Obama is no JFK...

Considering JFK himself almost got us into a nuclear war, that's pretty frightening.

139 Well, the DREAM act got pulled from a floor vote, so maybe . . .

As I said, 1 crossed over and all it would have taken is one more.

140 I was in England when this was being discussed.   Let me describe the old system.  Under the old system, there was no tuition at all.  The government gave aid to every (there are no private) university and quotas for students in certain areas (you don't choose your major after applying to the school).  

Not too long ago, the government reduced aid but permitted universites to charge up to 3000 pounds tuition to EU citizens and unlimited to students outside the EU.   Recently, the Cameron government talked about lifting the caps on tuition that universities could charge but that aid would almost all disappear.  Apparently, that's a reality now.  

The problem is that they came from a totally socialist system.  So, if there was a slot, you could major in art history.  Government decided how many art historians there could be.  My guess is that it didn't work out so well.  

So now, you will have to choose an area of study that will enable you to earn back enough money to pay the tuition.  This makes sense because it's insulting for people who don't go to college to subsidize people who do so that they can earn a lot more money.  

Now, I'm sure you're asking, why don't they adopt a US-style system for some of their universities (I think Cambridge and Oxford might just go private) and that is to charge a low tuition for UK citizens, a higher one for non-UK EU and then full freight for outside the EU students.  Certainly US state schools have differential tuition depending on which state you're a resident of.  

Well...that's illegal by EU rules.  And the UK gets screwed on that.  Everybody wants to be educated in the UK, not just at OxCam but they'd rather be at a second-rate English-speaking university than a second-rate German-speaking one.

141 This is a tax bill right? Doesn't the house have to vote on it first? Or is that another bit of constitutional law that we ignore now.

142 Certainly US state schools have differential tuition depending on which state you're a resident of. 

unless you are an illegal

143 The folks who sling around pejoratives about people on unemployment based on wild assumptions, generalizations, and no data, are the latter.

Those people are both.  And the funny part is most of them type their snark about the unemployed from work, while they're on the clock.

144 Clinton could convince the Dems that they were going to like what he shoved down their throats.

I got a lot of practice in the Oral, uh, Oval Office you know.

145 This is a tax bill right? Doesn't the house have to vote on it first?

Unless they do what they did with Healthscam. Take any bill that originated in the house that has already been approved in the House. Amend it by striking everything in it. Approve the amended bill in the Senate and then send it back to the House for a "take it or leave it" approval.

Technically that is unconsitutional as hell, but only another legislature would ever get "standing" with today's BS court system and no legislature will ever do it.

146

As I said, 1 crossed over and all it would have taken is one more.

Yeah, Vic.  But they didn't have that one more.

After Obamacare got rammed down the nation's throats, I have no doubt that DREAM is going to pass.  Anything that can change that inevitability to me looks good.

147 I ran myself over with my own bus!

148 We started with a small number of incumbents being booted.  We need a full turnover on both sides.  Incumbents be damned.  You're fucking my ass WAY to hard and I'm pretty sick of it.

No new taxes.  No new spending....NO MORE SPENDING.  Go back to the 2005 budget, sit down and STFU.

149 Yeah, Vic.  But they didn't have that one more. YET

150

♫  "We wish you a Merry Christmas,

We wish you a Merry Christmas,

We wish you a Merry Christmas,

Now Go Fuck Yourself-  

The Taxess we steal from you and your kin

The Taxes this Christmas will be less than Next Year

"Now Bring Us More Legislation,

Now Bring Us More Legislation,

Now Bring Us More Legislation to Ram Down Your Throats-

"We Won't Go Until We Get Some,

We Won't Go Until We Get Some,

We Won't Go Until We Get Some-thing to Ram Down Your Throats-

We Wish You a Merry Christmas,

We Wish You a Merry Christmas,

Now Go Fuck Yourselves!"♫

 

 ♫

151 As I said, 1 crossed over and all it would have taken is one more.

Posted by: Vic at December 09, 2010 01:07 PM (e4sSD)

I hope they ream Collins on this.  She wanted so badly to register a vote for this abortion.  I guess it's the whole noblesse oblige thing and she wants to appear to be nice to Hispanics.

Yes, I know she waited until her vote wouldn't make a difference and, yes, if she wants to vote no, she can say "but I really wanted to, see, I voted yes before I voted no" but if you make a pledge, knowing exactly what that pledge consists of, you can't go back on it a few days later.

That's what I hate most about these moderate Republicans.  It's not that they have principles that I disagree with and stick with them, it's that they don't have principles at all.  They'll break promises, they'll screw their own party in lame duck sessions.

There are a handful of moderates who at least had principles -- Christie, Rudy -- but most are just slimeballs.  In fact, it wouldn't bother me so much if they were slimeballs in both directions, but have you ever heard of a Republican running to the left and governing to the right?

152 96 I'm a little confused. Don't the tax cuts expire on New Years, or around there? If they do, then don't Obama and the Dems get what they want?
________

No. What they want is to not get blamed for the tax increases. What they're fighting about is whether they want the tax increases more than the lack of blame.

It is true that, come January, Obama will be free to veto restoration of the tax cut. But by then, they will have taken the blame for the tax increases; the game will have changed.

153 Tangential, but related: the color for 2011 (as selected for us by our fashion betters, snork) is "Honeysuckle."  It's a fantasy escape from reality (for those who can afford new clothes/home furnishings....).  Also kinda looks like Pepto-Bismol. 

Zeitgeist!

154 Drudge is loading OK here.

155 It is better with paragraphs !

156 Nancy looks like, "I'm ready for my closeup, Mr. DeMille."

157 156 Yeah, Vic.  But they didn't have that one more. YET

It seems less likely.  If the pubs forced a stall on the Senate version, the House version shouldn't be any more palatable.  In principle, it should be worse because the Senate would cater its version to get as many yes votes as possible in the Senate.  But one never knows.

158 That the anal-ysts are having a field day means nothing to me. All I see are fewer chances for employment and more misery for real human beings (yes, like me).

Posted by: MrScribbler© at December 09, 2010 01:05 PM (Ulu3i)

I bet you that if the State Media covered the fallout from tax/regulatory increases - layoffs, pay freezes, etc - like they cover government spending cuts, we'd never have another tax 'n regulate Democrat elected. 

But of course that isn't the way it happens. The State Media always like to pretend that tax increases only have one effect - paying down the deficit. So many emotional mushy middle types, who are secure economically for various reasons - fell ok with voting for platforms much more destructive then cutting off Big Bird's federal funding.

159
Maybe it would be fun if we communicated in Tweets for today.

160 This is Obama's biggest bitch slap since Chicago lost the Olympics.

"Chicago is out?  Chicago is OUT?!?!"

Gawd, that never gets old.

161 SUBJECT: Drop Dead.  Merry Fucking Christmas.

FIFY. 

Posted by: Kratos (Ghost of Sparta) at December 09, 2010 12:38 PM (9hSKh)

What decadent language!

162
or, let's talk like we're on CB's.

Roger that?

163

Those damn clingers with their pick-up trucks!

164 162 It is better with paragraphs !

Posted by: Jean at December 09, 2010 01:15 PM (aemFw)

Life is always better with paragraphs.

165 Who was the pub who crossed over to vote for the Nightmare Act?  He/she's on the 2012 list.

166 RT: @soothsayer Maybe it would be fun if we communicated in Tweets for today.

167 #145  Considering JFK himself almost got us into a nuclear war, that's pretty frightening.

Indeed.  And Ahmedinejad is no Khrushchev.

I'm still convinced that Khamenei now believes in the Cult of the 12th Imam eschatology, given how the Ayatollah has protected Ahmedinejad especially during these past 2 years. 

168 Unless they do what they did with Healthscam. Take any bill that originated in the house that has already been approved in the House. Amend it by striking everything in it. Approve the amended bill in the Senate and then send it back to the House for a "take it or leave it" approval.

Technically that is unconsitutional as hell, but only another legislature would ever get "standing" with today's BS court system and no legislature will ever do it.

Posted by: Vic



Oh come on, they'd never try that twice....


"Senior Dem adviser to WH tells me strategy now: Sen Dems use another bill already passed by House, add new tax deal, send back to House

Dem adviser says then WH would try to “jam the House” and have Pelosi vote on updated bill — but will Pelosi be jammed?"

CNN/Hotair

169 Why, Barack Obama, you look like a goose just walked over your grave.

170 There are a handful of moderates who at least had principles -- Christie, Rudy -- but most are just slimeballs.  In fact, it wouldn't bother me so much if they were slimeballs in both directions, but have you ever heard of a Republican running to the left and governing to the right?

It rather makes the whole term meaningless doesn't it?

I mean consider for a moment...if you were a moderate in 2006, you opposed the government takeover of healthcare right? And now, apparently, you are a moderate if you oppose repealing the government take over of healthcare.

Oh, and of course you don't hear about many politicians running to the left of how they will govern. People vote for conservatives given the chance (at least on the national scale). So there is almost no reason to pretend to be more leftwing then you are.

171
oh, I guess I shoulda said I really don't understand  Twitter-ese.

172 It just doesn't get any better than this.

173
I no fluent in Twittish.

174 SUBJECT: Drop Dead.  Merry Fucking Christmas.

Merry Christmas, shitters full.

Maybe it would be fun if we communicated in Tweets for today.

And then another time, at Band Camp, we played our instruments backwards.

175 Oh come on, they'd never try that twice....

Shirely you jest

176 RIP U.S. Treasuries.

177 I just notice something in that post, that should be "legislator", not legislature.

178 AmishDude - My comment was predicated on the fact that I post thru a proxy that strips out paragraphs

179 I hope the deal  craters for lack of Dem votes.  they will get blamed for the increased withholdings from everyone's paychecks in January--and the GOP should be able to get a better deal negotiated when the 112th convenes--they'd dam well better.

180 I won.... Na na na hey hey hey GOOD BYE We crazy Americans just love political stupidity. Pass the popcorn and the ammunition, I thinks we are headed for fun ride by the Government.

181
"Beyond the increased federal income tax brackets, the capital gains tax rates will also be changing (and not for the better). The top rate for long-term capital gains will be rising from 15% to 20%, and the 0% rate for those in the lowest tax brackets will be replaced by a 10% long-term capital gains rate."

And don't forget us: we'll be getting taxed out the wazoo.

182 Ooooooh, but my taxes are still lower than my secretary's. It's true!

183 And don't forget us: we'll be getting taxed out the wazoo.

Posted by: The Dead at December 09, 2010 01:28 PM (VrNoa)

Yeah, doesn't the death tax go from 0 to like 45% or something?  That's just fucking ridiculous.

184

THE PRESIDENT: Hold on a second, Ben. This isnÂ’t the politics of the moment. This has to do with what can we get done right now.

That right there is some 5-Dimensional chess playin smart, morons.

185 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D41-Bz1oNcA

"Honeysuckle" reminds me of Jackie O in Dallas. Grease. Barbie. Mary Kay. And of course, this musical number from Funny Face.

Go out dancing but just remember one thing:
You can get a little wink If you got a little pink In your swing.

186 Collins and the rest have said over and over their votes on other bills come AFTER the tax bill- which means if the House plays stupid, then well, Willy Wonka tells us

187 From Michelle Malkin on the DREAM Act being tabled for one week.  The commenter is TooMuchTime: 

The Senate just voted 59-40 to table the DREAM Act illegal alien bailout cloture voteÂ…TheyÂ’ll take up the House-passed version next week.

Be VERY careful here! The democrats are stalling a week to see which Republicans go home a bit early for the holidays then they will be able to pass it. All 42 Republicans need to stay glued to their seats and deny this bill until the official recess. Then be prepared to hurry back when the democrats sneak back in to take a vote anyway.

188 This could end the Democrats lock on the dead vote.

189 Goodie. I hope those assholes are enjoying their little political posturing games while there are people like me who can't find a job and are barely keeping a roof over our heads. Representative of the people, my ass.

190 /In the end, there will be only chaos. 

Posted by: Kratos (Ghost of Sparta) at December 09, 2010 01:04 PM (9hSKh)

For those who say Obama cannot be an Italian-style corporate fascist, Muslim and a radical leftist at the same time, I ask why not?

191

I don't see the GOP getting hurt on this issue. From what I understand everyone is going to get clobbered. Somewhere I heard that a single mother earning 30K is going to get whacked with a $1200 tax increase.

That makes for a pretty broad base of pissed off tax payers, not to speak of
the "Seeing Jesus" moment independents and many Dems will have when the reduction of disposable income is felt by retailers across the country, and more local people are at risk at losing their jobs.

 

192 Well, the DREAM act got pulled from a floor vote, so maybe . . .

As I said, 1 crossed over and all it would have taken is one more.

Five "Republicans" voted to table. Four Rats voted against tabling, including Menendez. Can't tell anything with this crew until the final vote (eeking by at 60) is completed.

193 139 Pixy, damn you. I did have paragraphs.
________

Line breaks are an illusion. Paragraph breaks, doubly so.

194 Fox is sure hyping the shit out of this nothing:

The House and the Senate appear to be on a collision course over the president's controversial tax plan, after House Democrats voted to block the package from coming to the floor in its current form.

House Dems did NOT block it from coming to the floor. 54 in the "caucus" voted for it to not come to the floor. There are still enough Dems to bring it to the floor and PASS it assuming the Republicans support it.

195

@17: "I can't even begin to tell you folks what hilarious and wonderful news this is.  From a strategy perspective WE CANNOT LOSE HERE, PEOPLE."

Oh, we will *so* take that bet......

196 "Speechy McSpeecherton" Fucking classic.

197

@52: "Will the Republicans have enough brains/balls to take this message to America that the Democrat party is more interested in penalizing "the rich" than helping the nation overall? It's a message that everyone can grasp and the Repubs can bash the Dims over the head with"

They've tried.  It's not the message, it's the audience.  Enough people *want* "the rich" to pay for their free shit, so the message is mostly a non-starter.

198 I was listening to Bernie Fucking Sanders defend his statement that he'll filibuster this thing in the Senate.  What about his excoriation of the Republicans for using the filibuster? Fuck you, that's what. 
Bernie's doing it because he's good and pure and Republicans do it because they are corrupted and evil and he shouldn't have to present any more of a reason than that.   And the sad part is the Left in Vermont will lap it up like a hungry dog.

199 #204:

And if Republicans are smart they'll exploit those 54.

Payback time!

200 Frankly,  I was hoping the new "in" would be fuschia.

Boo "Honeysuckle".

201 So when do we start to riot? I mean they're rioting against austerity measures, sometimes I wish we'd get pissed enough to riot, but I'm too busy making money.

202 Wow, they "stood up to Obama," did they?

That takes, well - nothing at all.  Ask the Norks, the Turks, the Chinese, the Russians, Wikileaks, anybody.  He's a spineless weasel who just takes it and says, "Thank you, sir, may I have another?"

It's like kicking sand in the face of the 98-pound weakling at the beach:  it requires no courage at all.  300-pound buff linebackers don't get sand kicked in their faces, it is only the weak sisters like Barry.

203 Now, now - let's keep up a steady pressure, we'll get something straight between us, and everything will come out just fine.