Ace of Spades HQ

May 21, 2010

I Come Here Not To Praise The Euro, But To Bury It
— Monty

Or so says Jeff Randall at the Telegraph, anyway.

Pull quote:

What was once deemed unthinkable is now, I believe, inevitable: withdrawal from the eurozone of one or more of its member countries. At the bottom end, Greece and Portugal are favourites to be forced out through weakness. At the top end, proposals are already being floated in the Frankfurt press for a new "hard currency" zone, led by Germany, Austria and the Benelux countries. Either way, rich and poor are heading in opposite directions.

I always suspected that Germany's move to ban short-selling in their own country was simply the opening move in a larger effort to funamentally change the European Monetary Union (EMU). Either by shrinking it to a fiscally sustainable "core" of Northern European countries, or simply by leaving the Euro entirely and instituting their own currency once again.

Posted by: Monty at 04:35 AM | Comments (80)
Post contains 166 words, total size 1 kb.

"Either way, rich and poor are heading in opposite directions."

Well clearly the answer is that the wealth needs to be spread around.

Posted by: Burn the Witch at May 21, 2010 04:44 AM (fLHQe)

Ah. Bring back the Deutshmark.

Posted by: Ben at May 21, 2010 04:47 AM (wuv1c)

if i were Russia, I would begin invasions of Georgia, Ukraine, and the Baltic countries immediately.

Europe would do nothing, and if they tried you could buy them off with enough money or gas.

Posted by: Ben at May 21, 2010 04:49 AM (wuv1c)

4
o/t:

You know how Obama lied when he promised that the democrat's "heath care reform" bill wouldn't raise costs/taxes?-- "not one dime" - (by giving the CBO manipulated numbers)

Well, when it comes to the democrat's financial reform bill, Obama is lying when he states that tax-payer funded bailouts aren't a part of it. They are.

Meanwhile, there's Rand Paul - and I'm sure he's gonna overturn the civil rights act any minute now.

Posted by: Lemon Kitten at May 21, 2010 04:49 AM (0fzsA)

5 Deutschland, Deutschland Uber Alles has a nice ring to it

Posted by: billypaintbrush at May 21, 2010 04:50 AM (kCLi2)

6 #2 Bring back spell check!

Wish I could laugh in face of several professors in Paris when this happens. I did this in 1991-92; certainly some of them are still professors at Paris II and the Sorbonne.

(and as you would expect, in French university, the professors don't ask the students questions, and the students aren't allowed to ask questions--sound familiar?)

Posted by: ParisParamus at May 21, 2010 04:52 AM (lf/rr)

7
I thought only America made the rich richer and the poor poorer.

Posted by: Dang at May 21, 2010 04:53 AM (UA4gE)

8 What's amazing to me in a way is how out-of-it the French are being. Given their usual bent towards the histrionic, I suspect that they're simply confused and rather powerless at the moment. The French aren't in as bad a shape as the PIIGS countries, but they're not exactly in boom-times, either. Their "union" with Germany has always been a rather fraught affair (for obvious reasons), and if it comes down to it, I don't see the French going with Germany in any "hard currency union" -- they'd be far more likely to simply revert back to the Franc.

Posted by: Monty at May 21, 2010 04:54 AM (4Pleu)

9 #7 Sorry, but both of the Pauls strike me as weird and soulless; kind of the same vibe I get from the Hollywood Scientology crowd...

Posted by: ParisParamus at May 21, 2010 04:54 AM (lf/rr)

10 "Germany, Austria and the Benelux countries" -- hard currency zone has a nicer ring then Reich. Any chance the Russians and French are happy about this.

Posted by: Jean at May 21, 2010 04:55 AM (JaO+v)

11 So there will be Two Europes. John Edwards isn't amused.

Posted by: scooter (still not libby) at May 21, 2010 04:56 AM (aamim)

12 The Great Recession caused by Bush is responsible for this. That and the right wing government of Greece.

Posted by: The MFM at May 21, 2010 04:56 AM (f4N12)

13 funamentally should be "fundamentally".

/Spelling Nazi off.

My WAG about Germany's intentions - they want to make a more stable "core". They still want to be rivals (not just economic partners) to the US.

Posted by: Spelling Nazi at May 21, 2010 04:57 AM (9hSKh)

14 "At the bottom end, Greece..."

I see what you did there.

Posted by: scooter (still not libby) at May 21, 2010 04:57 AM (aamim)

15 Can we peacefully split Belgium in half this time, north goes on the mark - south on the franc. No need to fight over chocolate, mussels, and bureaucrats.

Posted by: Jean at May 21, 2010 04:57 AM (tTdaQ)

16 and lets just let Alsace-Lorraine vote on mark vs franc, ok. You guys really haven't had enough kids recently to have a real war.

Posted by: Jean at May 21, 2010 04:59 AM (tTdaQ)

17 Even if all their currencies collapse I will refer to their socialized health care systems as huge successes much better than Americas.

Posted by: The MFM at May 21, 2010 04:59 AM (f4N12)

18 BP lost all credibility with me with those ads buying into the whole climate change bullshit. Ditto for GE, but their reckoning is still to come.

Posted by: ParisParamus at May 21, 2010 05:00 AM (lf/rr)

19 Whoops, wrong thread..

Posted by: ParisParamus at May 21, 2010 05:00 AM (lf/rr)

20 4if i were Russia, I would begin invasions of Georgia, Ukraine, and the Baltic countries immediately.

There's no need for out and out invasion - Georgia has been effectively neutralized (they will never be a part of NATO now), the Ukraine has pro-Kremlin leadership, and the Baltic States can be cowed through energy disruptions.

I think Russia has designs on the Middle East again. They're arming the Syrians and Iranians, and doing everything they can to put their finger in Uncle Sam's eye (like that's hard to do with Barracky at the helm).

Posted by: Spelling Nazi at May 21, 2010 05:00 AM (9hSKh)

21 They still want to be rivals (not just economic partners) to the US. Germany population = ~80 million US Population = ~340 million Ain't gonna happen. This divide will only increase over time since the German birth-rate is now below replacement level. By 2060 or so, the US will have between 450 and 500 million people; Germany will have roughly 50 million. And Germany is actually in better shape than most European countries in terms of birth-rate.

Posted by: Monty at May 21, 2010 05:01 AM (4Pleu)

22 Sorry, but both of the Pauls strike me as weird and soulless;

I didn't know they were gingers.

Posted by: alexthechick at May 21, 2010 05:01 AM (8WZWv)

23 I always said Monty would post something at 8:35Â¼Ƀ.

Actually, saying something 'always' is impossible by definition, so perhaps I just predicted something at 8:35Ã†ÃŸ...

Perhaps.

In other news, flarp.

Posted by: Garbonzo the Garrulous at May 21, 2010 05:02 AM (zgd5N)

24 I will never do a story on the relationship between huge debt and left wing socialist policies such as single payer gov run healthcare. Greece's debt was caused by totally random bad luck, just like chronic unemployment!

Posted by: The MFM at May 21, 2010 05:03 AM (f4N12)

Personally I don't mind if the Germans take more assertive control of Europe. God knows Europe could use a pair and they don't really have an army anymore. So its shouldn't be of great concern to us.

Mainland Europe has been living of the german frau teet for sometime now. The whole Euro was propped up by the Germans anyway.

I say let the Germanic speaking countries form an economic Union. They all have similar economic views and it would be an easy integration.

Posted by: Ben at May 21, 2010 05:04 AM (wuv1c)

26 Good to see you posting Monty. Something interesting to read in the morning.

Posted by: maddogg at May 21, 2010 05:04 AM (OlN4e)

#2 Bring back spell check!

the "s" is close to the "c"

You doushe (see what i did there)

Posted by: Ben at May 21, 2010 05:05 AM (wuv1c)

28 "its national accounts were a moussaka of minced statistics, topped with a cheesy sauce of jiggery-pokery." -- can you imagine a US paper printing this.

Posted by: Jean at May 21, 2010 05:05 AM (OlnxK)

29 BTW, How do the morons suppose Comrade Zero will react to the inevitable break up of his beloved Euroweenie union?

Posted by: maddogg at May 21, 2010 05:06 AM (OlN4e)

30 24 Ain't gonna happen. This divide will only increase over time since the German birth-rate is now below replacement level. By 2060 or so, the US will have between 450 and 500 million people; Germany will have roughly 50 million.

Yep. And they're going to have a little problem when their now "minority" populations aren't so minority in the future.

#25 I didn't know they were gingers.

Shut up.

.

/but I LOLed anyway.

Posted by: Kratos (missing from the side of Mt Olympus) at May 21, 2010 05:06 AM (9hSKh)

31 Isn't the moussaka the dance they did on the movie Adams Family?

Posted by: The MFM at May 21, 2010 05:07 AM (f4N12)

32 33 BTW, How do the morons suppose Comrade Zero will react to the inevitable break up of his beloved Euroweenie union?

The EU acted stupidly. If only I was in charge!

Posted by: Teh Won at May 21, 2010 05:07 AM (9hSKh)

33 Flirp.
Posted by: Wodeshed

Wode, Old Bean. Good to See you. Glad to glean that the Crap Fark haven't burnished your Gerd yet...

Posted by: Garbonzo the Garrulous at May 21, 2010 05:07 AM (zgd5N)

34 Has anyone else noticed that the countries that make really good beer are so much better off than the ones that make whine?

Posted by: GulfCoastTider at May 21, 2010 05:07 AM (j2O76)

35 I was over at Instapundit and followed a link to some leaked internal report that shows Spain's "green" energy program is a big waste of money. Well, the leaked document was notes for a power point presentation -- not a real bombshell for me -- but there was a link in the article to a Spanish university study (pdf) that's a real eye-opener:

VIIIIII... Conclusion

In table 3 we summarize the results achieved in terms of employment, subsidies and
investment in the three main renewable industries. Since 2000, the renewable subsidies
have created less than 50,200 jobs.54 This amounts to 0.2% of SpainÂ’s workforce and
0.25% of SpainÂ´s employed workforce. We can see that the average subsidy per
worker added in these three sources of renewable energies is more than half a million
Euros (Â€571,13

, ranging from Â€542,825 per worker added in or by the mini-hydro
sector and two-thirds of a million Euros per worker added in or by the photovoltaic
sector, to well over Â€1 million per worker added in or by the wind industry.

--------

This kind of crap is a surefire way to kill economies and currencies.

And now it's our turn to do it!

Posted by: Ed Anger at May 21, 2010 05:08 AM (7+pP9)

36 You guys really haven't had enough kids recently to have a real war.

The people who ARE having kids have that whole silent jihad thing going. *srednop*

Posted by: SteynRadish at May 21, 2010 05:09 AM (mR7mk)

37 Great Britain isn't going to change course either, particularly after this last election. The pound stays.

Posted by: Dave in Texas at May 21, 2010 05:10 AM (WvXvd)

I wouldn't count the Germans out just yet.

A country can change its mating habits. I would be willing to be if Germany mandated every woman have 1 kids, they would comply.

I know that sounds absolutely crazy, but as we get closer to 2050-2060, the state will do drastic things to ensure its survival.

Posted by: Ben at May 21, 2010 05:11 AM (wuv1c)

to bet, not to be

damn i type to fast

Posted by: Ben at May 21, 2010 05:11 AM (wuv1c)

40 hard currency zone has a nicer ring then Reich.

But this would be Germany leaving the Reich, before it goes Reich-crazy, as failing Reichs do. The Germans might have learned something! That's unprecedented.

Posted by: oblig. at May 21, 2010 05:12 AM (x7Ao8)

41 Hey, that socialism sheiss only goes so far, mein freund.

Be glad it's not 70 years ago-- all we can do now is cut you slackers off.

Posted by: The Germans at May 21, 2010 05:12 AM (MMC8r)

42 I see that The Homonculus (whom some name Krugman) has an article in the NYT today. (No link, because fuck that guy.) His newest mindthought tells him that our problem isn't that we have too much government intervention; it's that we have too little! TARP II, baby! If only those eeeevil GOPers would stop their cock-blocking, Saint Obama and his handmaidens Pelosi and Reid could ride in and save the day! Douchebag. Douchebag, I say!

Posted by: Monty at May 21, 2010 05:13 AM (4Pleu)

43 How do the morons suppose Comrade Zero will react to the inevitable break up of his beloved Euroweenie union?

The UN is probably still the path to global governnance. God help us if he ever gets installed in a position of power there.

Posted by: HeatherRadish at May 21, 2010 05:13 AM (mR7mk)

44 Obama will gift us withe single payer healthcare, like the rest of the modern world, that is why the Dems will win 200 seats in the House!

Posted by: Snapfaggot at May 21, 2010 05:14 AM (f4N12)

45 Krugman drinks so much Kool-aid he ought to be grape colored. I never read anything he writes. That guy is a propagandist for socialism, nothing more.

Posted by: maddogg at May 21, 2010 05:16 AM (OlN4e)

46 Hey monty stop punching down on the homo Krugman or you will lose the elections!

Posted by: someguy at May 21, 2010 05:17 AM (f4N12)

47 Germany's move to ban "naked short-selling"

Posted by: Neo at May 21, 2010 05:17 AM (tE8FB)

48 Whose turn is it to prop up the Euro today?

Posted by: Rat Patrol at May 21, 2010 05:17 AM (dQdrY)

49 I was for glamorizing European governance before I turned a blind eye to the reasons it's failing.

Posted by: The MFM at May 21, 2010 05:20 AM (f4N12)

50 I've heard some Pollyannas make the argument that a dollar-parity Euro is actually a good thing for Europe in that it stimulates the export markets. I find this notion fairly unpersuasive. Trade imbalances strike Europe far more asymmetrically than they do in the US; Germany is export-driven, while Greece barely exports at all. Any benefit to one country's export trade would hurt another's. But deflating the currency by upwards of 30% puts a vicious hurt on people living on a fixed-income (seniors), holders of bonds (since their bonds are worth less), and makes new debt more expensive. As many, many people have pointed out over the years: you cannot form a sane monetary policy without having a parallel fiscal policy over the entire currency union.

Posted by: Monty at May 21, 2010 05:28 AM (4Pleu)

I sometimes wonder if there aren't certain European states where democracy just doesn't mesh with the culture. Ironically enough I've though Greece falls into that category.

I'm not sure anything short of a dictatorship would be able to take the necessary actions to fix that country up.

Posted by: Ben at May 21, 2010 05:29 AM (wuv1c)

Greece barely exports at all.

but they have one large shipping industry.

Posted by: Ben at May 21, 2010 05:30 AM (wuv1c)

53 35 Isn't the moussaka the dance they did on the movie Adams Family?

Posted by: The MFM at May 21, 2010 09:07 AM (f4N12)

No, that was the mamuschka.

Moussaka is basically eggplant lasagne with bechamel.

Posted by: barbarausa at May 21, 2010 05:32 AM (gRgC6)

54 #31 Ben, no hard feelings. I have equal typo issues. I just couldn't resist.

Posted by: ParisParamus at May 21, 2010 05:36 AM (lf/rr)

55 Germany's move to ban "naked short-selling" Don't kid yourself about their hatred for the shorts. (Or "speculators" or "wolfpacks" or whatever other name Merkel is hurling at them now.) Governments and corporations who have been pissing money down the drain hate and fear short-sellers because it exposes their malfeasance to the public. Yes, there are some problems with excessive leverage, but that's a technical problem with certain financial instruments, not an indictment of short-selling. Besides, banning short-selling won't solve their problem entirely. You can just buy puts. You limit your risk and reward somewhat more than in a short-sale, but as a cautious (fraidy-cat) investor I don't see that as a bad thing.

Posted by: Monty at May 21, 2010 05:37 AM (4Pleu)

56 #25 I didn't know they were gingers.

Shut up. .

/but I LOLed anyway.

Hey, don't forget that I'm a ginger.

Posted by: alexthechick at May 21, 2010 05:38 AM (8WZWv)

57 Oh, and more good news: Dow down another 148 points at the open. Dow at 9,953, baby. My 401(k) is howling with pain! (Or greedily gobbling up budget-priced stocks, for those bright-eyed optimists out there.)

Posted by: Monty at May 21, 2010 05:39 AM (4Pleu)

58 -114 points, that is, not -148. Though I'm sure it will come as the day rolls along.

Posted by: Monty at May 21, 2010 05:41 AM (4Pleu)

114 points, that is, not -148. Though I'm sure it will come as the day rolls along.

oddly enough all the Steel stocks are up, and so is GS.

I'm torn on whether to buy soon. At the very least there will be another bull run before a total collapse, no?

Posted by: Ben at May 21, 2010 05:43 AM (wuv1c)

25 I didn't know they were gingers.

Shut up. .

/but I LOLed anyway.

Hey, don't forget that I'm a ginger

Oh we haven't. You're on our list.

Posted by: The New German Currency Zone at May 21, 2010 05:44 AM (wuv1c)

#31 Ben, no hard feelings. I have equal typo issues. I just couldn't resist.

none taken. I was just being playful.

I type then hit send and that can cause problems.

As I was typing it I kept thinking about Donnie Deutsch. i blame my spelling error on that.

Posted by: Ben at May 21, 2010 05:45 AM (wuv1c)

(Or "speculators" or "wolfpacks" or whatever other name Merkel is hurling at them now.)

The German WW2 U-Boat fleet is causing this market turmoil?

Posted by: Ben at May 21, 2010 05:46 AM (wuv1c)

63 I'm torn on whether to buy soon. At the very least there will be another bull run before a total collapse, no? Actually, I'm rather bullish in the short-term. As Europe collapses and China goes into a slow-growth period, it's probably not a bad time to buy into US stocks. I have a feeling that the Dow will assimilate this mess and rebound back to at least 10,500 if not 11,000 over the summer. If you buy into equities now, you stand to make a tidy profit, I think. (Of course, it's all monopoly money and will probably be eaten away by inflation in a couple of years -- I'd recommend buying hard assets with the money as soon as you make it.)

Posted by: Monty at May 21, 2010 05:51 AM (4Pleu)

I spent time in Greece in the 80's, and I was never impressed by their "productivity." Greece is one of those siesta countries. Everything shuts down every afternoon, and you can't get a fucking thing done. I've been blindsided by that so many times--by not expecting things to be shut down. Finally, I learned. You know, standing outside the store, office, whatever, knocking and pacing. Wondering how they get anything done there. Pissed off that anyone can be so lazy. It finally sunk in, and I stopped scheduling activities in the afternoons. Yeah, they're not much into hard work there. Might sweat a little if they did. I freaking hate siestas.

Siestas are for wimps. --Gordon Gekko

Posted by: rdbrewer at May 21, 2010 05:54 AM (2VGuy)

65 I just can't get used to the idea of Europe fucking itself over.

Posted by: tachyonshuggy at May 21, 2010 06:02 AM (BUlti)

66 I can't envision a scenario where there would be an orderly un-winding.Without hard assets to back up the paper, there would be financial pandemonium

Posted by: Opie at May 21, 2010 06:15 AM (C//sz)

67 The stock market is bouncing around like a basketball this morning. Down a hundred, then up 20, now down 15 again. Volatile as hell.

Posted by: Monty at May 21, 2010 06:17 AM (4Pleu)

68 Posted by: Monty at May 21, 2010 09:51 AM (4Pleu) Won't the volatility of a Europe crash spook the markets over here?

Posted by: Hunter Van Pelt at May 21, 2010 06:52 AM (UAUMO)

69 I just can't get used to the idea of Europe fucking itself over.

Posted by: tachyonshuggy

When the history of Europe is taken into account, you should be surprised when Europe isn't doing just that. When was the last time Europe attempted something like this? The Holy Roman Empire? And that came apart due to internal differences and aspirations.

Posted by: Danger Dick Blumenthal at May 21, 2010 06:56 AM (R2fpr)

70 sock /off.

Posted by: Blue Hen at May 21, 2010 06:56 AM (R2fpr)

71 Won't the volatility of a Europe crash spook the markets over here? It already has; thus the plummet of the market over the last week. I'm just hoping that the market has "priced in" the cost of a Greek default and the devaluing of the Euro. If not, we may be looking at another 500 points or so getting shaved off the Dow before it starts to trend back up. DISCLAIMER: I am probably completely full of shit, by the way. Please do not take anything I say as investment advice. If I were smart, I'd be a lot richer than I am.

Posted by: Monty at May 21, 2010 07:07 AM (4Pleu)

72 78 DISCLAIMER: I am probably completely full of shit, by the way. Please do not take anything I say as investment advice. If I were smart, I'd be a lot richer than I am.
_________________

Uh huh. You'd like us to believe that, wouldn't you? Well, just wait until we figure out how to tax you for how much you should be making!

Posted by: Infernal Revenue at May 21, 2010 08:01 AM (3K4hn)

73 # 59 Ben but they have one large shipping industry. Greek flagged shipping is somewhat of a deceptive indicator. Yes, there are a lot of ships registered in Greece. But there are reasons. A ship can be owned by anyone, anywhere; and be registered anywhere regardless of ownership. Where a ship is registered [the equivalent of license plates on a car] is based primarily on two factors: taxes [how cheap it is to keep it registered, and lack of enforceable mandates by the country it is registered in. For instance, if you are a registered US flag ship, by US law you have to have an all union crew, and maintain the highest safety and environmental standards. That makes us awful expensive to register a ship. We are not exactly slouches on taxing "evil capitalist shipowners" either. Pretty much anymore, only ships that have to operate solely within our waters, and a few specialized ships that shipping lines keep to contract with the US government are US flagged. Panama and Liberia have the lowest taxes and the lowest standards, so most merchant ships are registered there. Greece is not far behind. They are also known for a certain laxity in collecting registration taxes, I am told. And those shipowners who are Greek have already taken steps to see that none of their income is anywhere that the Greek equivalent of the IRS can find it. Malta, by the way, has the same advantages as Liberia and Panama; plus a certain willingness to overlook less than legal activities if certain non-trivial additional service charges are paid to the right people. So the size of the Greek flagged merchant fleet is not really an indicator of being a national asset. Combine that with the fact that world trade is flatlining [there is a thing called the "Baltic Dry Index" that measures the demand and usage of shipping worldwide. Last time I looked a few months ago it was at a record low level, and some companies that lease out those standard shipping containers were letting them be used for free, just so they would not have to pay to store them someplace.] and there are a whole lot of ships that used to be busy tied up in mothballs for lack of cargo. A lot of the Greek flagged vessels are older and less efficient, so they are not making money for anyone. On a number of levels, most self-inflicted, Greece is well and truly scrod. As is the whole EU Vierte Reich project. Watch Austria, Belgium, France, and Britain in roughly that order. Their private and state banks have the most exposure to bad loans [including holding sovereign debt notes, which are loans], not only to the PIIGS countries, but also to Eastern Europe. We are talking about write-offs that are literally the size of significant fractions [>50%] of the creditor countries's entire GDP's. There is a reason that the German banks had to be browbeaten into bailing out Greece, and that they insisted that the German government had to guarantee against any losses. And the German financial community is still not a bunch of gemÃ¼tliche campers about it. The only way that they can print enough Euros to cover their losses is to pull a Zimbabwe and start stamping 6 zeros on each Euro note. Which means the currency is destroyed. Not that it would be a "bad thing". The EU is a Ponzi scheme that will not stand up and defend itself against anything. If nationalism returns to Europe, at least some of the countries might have a few words to say [ or more] to the "unidentified youths" who just happen to have Muslim names that are creating havoc all over Europe. The transition is going to be interesting times, in the Chinese sense. Subotai Bahadur

Posted by: Subotai Bahadur at May 21, 2010 08:24 AM (WmDNr)

74 By 2060 or so, the US will have between 450 and 500 million people; Germany will have roughly 50 million. And Germany is actually in better shape than most European countries in terms of birth-rate. Posted by: Monty at May 21, 2010 09:01 AM (4Pleu) But how many of those 50 million will be Muslims that still send their daughters off to Pakistan to have their clits sliced off? (or maybe to America, since liberal doctors here are now - amazingly, but not surprisingly - speaking of assisting the crime of female genital mutilation? [But they'll call it "nicking" instead of mutilations because "mutilation" sounds so... judgmental...]

Posted by: CoolCzech at May 21, 2010 08:40 AM (9IHmo)

75 80: Greek flagged shipping is somewhat of a deceptive indicator. Yes, there are a lot of ships registered in Greece. True, just like Panama "has" a large shipping fleet, based on registry.

Posted by: CoolCzech at May 21, 2010 08:43 AM (9IHmo)

76 Europe has survived worse problems.

Posted by: snapdragon at May 21, 2010 09:30 AM (5Etcj)

77 Europe has survived worse problems. As your broker often tells you, snappie: past performance is no guarantee of future results. And there really is no such thing as "Europe", as this present crisis proves yet again.

Posted by: Monty at May 21, 2010 09:44 AM (4Pleu)

78 The EU is in large part a Kohl/Chirac construct to counter perceived US hegemony...In reality, it was a French desire to diminish US influence in Europe while Kohl was looking for solidarity with France to help erase the war guilt carried by Germans...Ultimately, those reasons are not enough to have nations give up their sovereignty to become the United States of Europe. Our friends should look to our dysfunctional Federal government and realize that the beurocrats in Brussels will ulitmately lead them down the same path of endless taxation in pursuit of a non-existant utopia...Get out of the EU while you can!

Posted by: Nozzle at May 21, 2010 12:46 PM (sE08M)

Germany has survived being split in half, invaded by the Soviet Union, a blockade of Berlin, and more. Okay, they brought a lot of those problems on themselves but my point is that they're not going out of business.

But as for the Euro... it was just gambled away to save German banks who over-bet on Greece.

Posted by: Steve O at May 22, 2010 03:04 PM (UvKar)

ÃŸÃ¦ÃŸÃŠÃÃ¡ Ã— ÃÃ¡ÃÃ¡ Ã£Ã¦Ã‡ÃžÃš Ã— Ã£Ã¤ÃŠÃÃÃ‡ÃŠ ÃŸÃ¦ÃŸÃŠÃÃ¡ Ã— Ã”Ã‡ÃŠ Ã•Ã¦ÃŠÃ Ã— Ã”Ã‡ÃŠ ÃŸÃ¦ÃŸÃŠÃÃ¡ Ã— ÃÃ¤ ÃŠÃ‡ÃÃ£

Posted by: soo at May 22, 2010 10:45 PM (WFYoY)

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