1 It's been my experience that, when you refer to "below the fold," you should have a fold.

2 First?

3

Why are the legal immigrants bitching?

 

4

Ruth McClung is running a darkhorse campaign against Raul Grijalva (can't link sorry).

McClung -- Jennifer Grey from Red Dawn

Grijalva -- the Nicaraguan colonel

5 If we were in a position to vacation right now, we'd definitely go to AZ.  We go there about every other year, either to Scottsdale for Spring Training, or to Sedona, Prescott, Flagstaff, etc for the natural beauty. 

The morons who are outrageously outraged about a state enforcing existing laws can suck it. 

6 I actually just got back from a trip to Arizona last week, and I really liked it there.

Would definitely go back, immigration law or not.

The problem with this law is, what, exactly, that there is actually going to be some sort of law enforcement against illegal immigration (ie for a change)?

7 I've applied for a residency at both rims of the Grand Canyon.  If I get in, I plan to spend lavishly at the gift shop.  Morons, please place your orders for South Rim slider pens and horrid tacky tee shirts now.

8 When my wife (Canadian) lived in the States, she had to have her green card on her at all times, no exceptions.

It was never checked, but it's the rule.  It's just like a driver needing the license whenever operating a motor vehicle.  It's life as a permanent resident.  You are a guest in this country and you need to prove you have permission.  Period.

But hell, if the lefties have a problem with people proving citizenship to vote, they are CERTAINLY going to have a problem with people proving their permission to be here.

9 And Eugene Robinson repeats the same course of race hate fomentation that he followed during Hurricane Katrina. No surprise here.

10 I am hearing that the bill was very carefully crafted in anticipation of all of this unhinged opposition. They fully expect it will stand up to court scrutiny. What better way to do that than model it on existing federal law? Now the only thing we have to fear is some insane judge overturning the entire thing (state and federal law) so that we are left with no way to enforce or document any immigrant at all!

11

Good point, Drew.

Seems like a good time to take a golf excursion to Camelback.

12

Anecdotally, when I worked in both Brazil and Taiwan, with a passport and a valid work visa, those countries required me to carry those documents with me at all times.

Now granted, I don't look like the locals in Taipei. But I didn't stand out in Brazil, they have large immigrant populations from Europe and Asia going back several generations.

13

If we all run down to Arizona for vacations won't it tip over...??

Oh wait, that's Guam. My bad.  <grin>

14 If the solution to your problem didn't originate in Washington DC, preferably in the offices of one of the coastal reps or sens, then you really didn't have a problem. Dumbass flyover hicks.....we'll tell you when you have a problem and then we'll provide you with the solution. And we'll borrow the money from your grandkids to pay for it. So STFU and relax. Dumbasses.

15 That's something reasonable people can disagree about the wisdom and propriety of but let's not let thee fools get away with crying "Nazi", "racist" "xenophobic" or any of the other usual suspects.

Reasonable people are NAZIs!

16

OMG!!!1111!11ELEVENTY!!11!11

This new law makes it illegal to be an illegal immigrant!

17 Do you really need to say anything more than Eugene Robinson? What's amazing is that he can write so much that makes so little sense.

18 If they are a legal citizen it could easily be placed on a drivers license for the police to notice.

19 I boycotted san fran a long time ago.  AZ should advertise san fran as a place for illegals to go.

20 Is Arizona under the ninth circuit? If so, they're fucked. Major league mega-fucked.

21 What's amazing is that he can write so much that makes so little sense.

Posted by: kansas

 

He works at the Washington Post. SOP

22

This is Hitler all over. We are putting MILLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLIONS of JEWS on trains and gassing them.

Liberals are hysterical.   

23
But hell, if the lefties have a problem with people proving citizenship to vote, they are CERTAINLY going to have a problem with people proving their permission to be here.
Posted by: grognard at April 27, 2010 12:11 PM (v0kvW)

How on earth are we going to get the illegal aliens to vote for us if you actually send them home and check the IDs on voting on those you miss?

Are you trying to confine elections to citizens or something?

Oh, and who is going to clean my house and trim my hedges?

24 Does a boycott of AZ also include lefty's relocating there?

25 I am hiding with my family, we don't papers, I'm scared.....

26 If they are a legal citizen it could easily be placed on a drivers license for the police to notice.

Seems pretty simple to carry a gov't issued card in your wallet with your "Mexico 5-cents-a-minute phone card."

(If they're not legal, why do they have a drivers license in the first place?)

27 Would it be appropriate for a Republican to ask MEN and WHITES to vote Republican.   I mean our cocksucking President did the converse.

28

Here's my take on this bill--

We'll have to wait and see.

Why  not? That's the approach taken by the left on every piece of shit legislation they passed in past year after all. Stimulus?  We must pass it (we'll see if it actually works). Health care? We must pass it (and we'll see later if it actually works).

If being detained is a violation of a civil right, I could make the same argument for the money they take out of my paycheck used to fund their social engineering programs. But I digress.....

I don't think we can know until it's actually enforced if pretextual stops (ie, you have a license plate light out or you didn't use your turn signal) are on the rise.

In the meantime, I'm inclined to adopt the left's methodology and take the wait and see approach on this one.

29 Lotta good golf in Arizona.

30 This is fascism! It is worse then when my dad made me pay rent for living in the basement after I turned 30!

Down with my dad, err the man!

31 Economic boycott of Arizona? Ok, cancel that shipment of scorpions, gial monsters and peyote buttons. Damn. Please tell me lace wigs don't come from there, now that would really suck.

32

The Nazi's didn't allow illegal immigrants either.

33 Would it be appropriate for a Republican to ask MEN and WHITES to vote Republican.   I mean our cocksucking President did the converse.

Posted by: gus at April 27, 2010 12:19 PM (Vqruj)

See, you are just a typical white person.

34 I hope these LIBTARDS get so pissed off that they go to Mexico in protest.

35

This is invasion, not immigration. Call it what it is.

This is the largest mass migration in human history.

36 ...but how bizarre is this.  The same people who think it's unreasonable to expect legally resident foreign nationals to carry a card or a passport with them when they're out and about thinks it's wholly reasonable to send citizens to prison for failure to purchase a product from a private corporation and provide proof of the transaction to the IRS.

37 Do they take drachmas in Phoenix?

38 Damn, I was so looking forward to getting asphyxiated in a smelly hippie sweat lodge there too. Damn.

39

The Nazi's didn't allow illegal immigrants either.

Posted by: gus at April 27, 2010 12:20 PM (Vqruj)

The Romans were pretty opposed to, until 476 AD at least.

40 If these illegal motherfuckers love waving their Mexican flags and saying "Viva mexico" at their goddamned protests, let the motherfuckers go the hell back there if it's so fucking great.

41 I hope these LIBTARDS get so pissed off that they go to Mexico in protest.

They won't be allowed to protest in Mexico.  Snicker.

42

This is invasion, not immigration. Call it what it is.

This is the largest mass migration in human history.

Posted by: Rodent Freikorps at April 27, 2010 12:21 PM (dQdrY)

Really, what could go wrong?

43

Maybe when President Opie goes to Arizona they can force him to prove his citizenship.   I don't believe a Hawaiian Certificate of Live Birth will suffice.

Of course the slobbering libtard media would accept a note from Opies mommy as proof, but we have yet to see his birth certificate.

WHY IS THAT LIBTARDS?

44 40 Ah, quite the conundrum they've put themselves in, no?

45 They won't be allowed to protest in Mexico.  Snicker.

Posted by: HeatherRadish at April 27, 2010 12:22 PM (mR7mk)

Imagine that...so if we all loaded up & went to Mexico and tried the same shit they're doing here...we'd be in jail?

46 The Mexican Government has just issued a Travel Advisory recommending Mexicans not to travel to Arizona on business or pleasure 

47 And ALL the lying CS misrepresent the detain provisions in the law. The police first must have a reason for stopping them BEFORE they check for legality.  But not a single one of these douche-nozzles say that. 

48

Anecdotally, when I worked in both Brazil and Taiwan, with a passport and a valid work visa, those countries required me to carry those documents with me at all times.

Posted by: Dave in Texas at April 27, 2010 12:12 PM (WvXvd)

Ok the Taiwanese requiring ID? Sorta racist. Brazil? They've still got a leftwing leader, right? They are ok.

49

Isn't it ironic that we cannot leave the U.S. without i.d.

50 I maintain we should adopt Mexico's immigration policy and see how they like it.

51

Economic boycott of Arizon.

I'm a little friggin dopey sometimes but wouldn't a decrease in immigration related crime actually improve the tourism and commercial industries in AZ?

 

 

 

52 I have a real hard time feeling any empathy towards illegals. In fact, I think it might be fair to say I simply don't give a fuck about their plight. Go fucking Home. Stay there. Take your MS-13 and multitude of other street gangs with you. You carry the Mexican flag up and down our streets with pride, now stay in Mexico (or wherever) with pride. It must be absolutely wonderful, that's why your fucking up here.

53 0 The Mexican Government has just issued a Travel Advisory recommending Mexicans not to travel to Arizona on business or pleasure 

BWaahaaahaaha, like 25 mexicans piled in a Geo Tracker is "pleasure".

54 #15 has a great idea: if we send all the lefties (hippies, commies, losers, bums, malcontents, journalists, guvment workers) to arizona, and they all stand on one side of the state, IT'LL TIP OVER! might take 10 years or more, and many might die from the heat, but who cares? i think everyone wins on this one. cept the people downwind from the hippies -- sorry, you gotta take one for the team. for the common good, as the commies say.

55 Posted by: Rum, Bitch Goddess of the Universe at April 27, 2010 12:25 PM (gofDd)

Oh my.  Someone is drunk on too many souls.

56 “I’m not a liberal so I have a poor grasp of stuff I don’t know anything about.” Which is why liberal angst over this law if funny.

57

You mean if we were found to be in Mexico illegally the MEXICAN NAZI'S would detain us??

Racists.

58 The same people who think it's unreasonable to expect legally resident foreign nationals to carry a card or a passport with them when they're out and about thinks it's wholly reasonable to send citizens to prison for failure to purchase a product from a private corporation and provide proof of the transaction to the IRS.

Posted by: HeatherRadish at April 27, 2010 12:21 PM (mR7mk)

You wing nuts don't get it. If you inconvenience the illegals, uh, undocumented workers, I'm going to have to pay some American twice as much to do the same job.

On the other hand, if I can't force you to pay for my health insurance, who will?

59

It's Kristallnacht all over again

Broken windows, windows with refried beans on 'em, what's the difference?

 

60 Hey, we don't have to have a reasonable debate with you wingnuts, all we have to do  is scream NO MORE HATE and we'll win, thanks American media! Oh, and we'll spell HATE as H8TE on our signs cuz the kids like it, gotta get 'em young y'know.

61

51 Well that's what I was saying earlier.

Pretextual stops.

They're not illegal.

If AZ sees a spike in appeals over these types of searches, they may have a problem with the law.

But I'm okay with that until that time.  

62 Of course the Lefties are pissed, the limousine liberals are going to have pay more for their organic arugula, and nanny is going to cost more, and the landscaper is going to cost more and the prices at restaurants are going to rise. Grandpa's money can't last forever if the prices keep rising!

63 The same propaganda style push will be observed with this and climate change BS, as we saw with health care "reform".  It is the Alinsky way, with Chicago style politics ... what is Truth?

Arizona would be a great place to visit now ... the nut jobs that would boycott won't be around  ... perfect.

64

I think rioting and throwing bottles at police will make us change our minds???

WWBAD.

 

What would Bill Ayers do??

 

 

65 50 The Mexican Government has just issued a Travel Advisory recommending Mexicans not to travel to Arizona on business or pleasure 

Posted by: FUBAR at April 27, 2010 12:24 PM (1fanL)

Now thats fuckin rich!

 

66 The other thing I would like to see from the media is one of them to ask one of the "protesting legislators" if he had actually read the bill.

I know it would be stupid to ask one of those MS-13 assholes in the street with the Mexican flag.

67

My husband was stationed at Davis-Monthan AFB in Tucson for 2 years.  We moved there just after the 2004 re-election of W; and with a W sticker on the back of my car, with a military tag and Texas plates, I had ALOT of Tusconians pissed at me for the 2 miserable years we lived there.  I was run off the road several times, flipped off too many times to count for no reason, and a Texas flag sticker on my car was vadalised with vulgar language, all the while our 2 young daughters were (un)fortunate enough to witness it all. 

Tucson is mostly full of illegals and liberals (and fugly desert landscape).  Chop that part of the state off and let it float across the desert sand to Mexico, then you got a pretty decent state.  Until then, Arizona sucks and I won't go back no matter what.

PS - I support the same illegal immigration law for Texas and hope Perry and the state legislature put something like it together SOON.

68 I've applied for a residency at both rims of the Grand Canyon.  If I get in, I plan to spend lavishly at the gift shop.  Morons, please place your orders for South Rim slider pens and horrid tacky tee shirts now.

--------------------------
Is that what they mean when they refer to a rim job???

69

I wonder if President dumb fuck has noticed.

 

No one buys his bull shit anymore.   He has the dead beat, Union, black and goverment dependent vote.   And a few young morons.

 

And no one else.   The game is over.  November we get even.

70

Can we demagogue the ever-loving s@#$ out this issue while ducking any and all efforts to actually address a broken and dangerous system?

 

Si Si Puede!

71 My concern isn't with legal immigrants having to carry ID: I'm one, and I've carried my Green Card since Day One because as was correctly said, it is Federal Law (even though mine is actually white. No, I don't get that...). My concern is with citizens having to carry ID: How is a cop supposed to know if person A walking down south Arizona Ave. is a citizen and person B is not? If he stops the citizen and they don't have a driver's license on them, how will that person prove their citizenship?

72

OT

Oh great!  Now the MSM will be harping on this for the next several days.

http://tinyurl.com/25dv9jh

Hell, you just can't get a break from them beating the Dem corruption drum. 

It's incessant!  Make it stop!!!!

73 we'll spell HATE as H8TE on our signs cuz the kids like it

HATETE?  Dey jst hd an erfqak or sumpin?

74 57 The Mexican Government has just issued a Travel Advisory recommending Mexicans not to travel to Arizona on business or pleasure

On the negative side sales of burritos dropped sharply.  But on the positive side water conservation is up as people can't be bothered to water their lawns because there isn't 4 guys standing on the porch asking if you need landscaping.

75

The reason the lefties make so many outrageous and bombastic accusations is the same reason a dog licks its balls - because they can. 

Lefties know that they can say pretty much any stupid dishonest thing they want, and if some rubes point out that it is bullshit, and the Ministry of DNC-Truth - what used to be called the MSM -will cover for them and go digging around in their accuser's tax records, etc. in order to discredit them.

The best thing you can say about this is that it keeps the left from developing coherent positions, since they don't need no stinking positions, coherent or otherwise, and it is gradually exposing the MSM as the donkey-balls-licking lackies they really are.

76
Eugene Robinson shows his integrity by standing up for the very folks who are systematically driving his fellow African Americans from their neighborhoods. Bravo!

77

Never mind the usual nitwits on the Left.  The GOP has gone off the rails on this AZ law too--its 2007 all over again.

Fox News hates the AZ law.  Judge Nappyhead said this morning:  "Its East Berlin meets the antebellum South."  I kid you not.  You don't have to go to MSLSD to be called a racist, Fox News is doing it for them.  "Fox All Stars"--same schtick, if not quite so colorfully phrased

Then there is Brother Hugh Hewitt, who is beggin other state GOPs to NOT join AZ, because it will "be bad for the REpublican Party."  Screw them!

Support Arizona and demand that your state to enact similar legislation.

78 Hey!  All you have to do is tell the libtards that in every country in Europe (actually, most of the world) it is law that legal immigrants and visitors must carry their papers at all times.. Then they'll be ok with it!

79 Tucson is mostly full of illegals and liberals (and fugly desert landscape).

It's a moonbat haven, that's for sure.  I spent some weeks there and found the surrounding area quite beautiful.  Then again, I kept me and my conservatism to myself.

Is that what they mean when they refer to a rim job???

Why do you think I applied?

80 Is that what they mean when they refer to a rim job???

Posted by: Chi-Town Jerry at April 27, 2010 12:30 PM (f9c2L)

Yep.  If you ever go to the Canyon Grande, make sure and ask everyone you see for a rim job.

81 After all this dog and pony show there will be some more laws passed and a few more folks thrown into the enforcement arena, and you know what will happen?  There will be an illegal immigration problem.  Most of these folks are coming over for jobs.  You want to stop people from coming over then go after the companies that hire them (take away their jobs).  I used to work in the oil fields in West Texas and the illegals were cheap labor.  The companies could hire a bunch of them to get a big job done at a fraction of the cost that it would have cost them to hire citizens.

Of course the real problem is the drug smuggling.  I don't think a new immigration policy will stop that.  Would legalization of all drugs help?  Would it make the drug cartels legitimate businesses?  People are morons and will always look for a way to get high (legally or illegally).

Would annexing Mexico and making it the 51st state help with the problem?  It would be costly at first, but maybe it would pay for itself later?

82 #29
(If they're not legal, why do they have a drivers license in the first place?)

Because states like WA don't have a problem issuing drivers licenses to illegals.  I can't explain the reasoning behind that except to say the liberal left runs the state. 

83 My theory is that this caught the Dems completely by surprise.  They wanted to be able to jam down an amnesty, demoralizing Republicans and making everybody just swallow it as inevitable.

This really jams up the works.  Remember that with the support of Bush, a handful of Republicans (including McCain and Graham) and Democrats, it was still wildly unpopular.  I think it's because it violates Americans' ideologically-independent desire for fair play among other things.

But the Democrats really don't like this because it tears their coalition.  Some Hispanics, elitist liberals and union leaders are all for illegal immigration.  Independents, union members and African-Americans absolutely loathe it.  I think this is much much bigger politically than they are currently admitting.

84

The thing isn't that legal immigrants need to carry ID. It's that Arizona citizens born in Arizona will have to carry ID, too. Otherwise, it will be impossible to enforce as an illegal immigrant could claim that he's a natural-born citizen and needn't carry ID.

So the onus falls on citizens and legal residents to carry some form of documentation, which is being equated with the burden of proof on people to prove their innocence (of immigration laws, at least).

I think it's hooey, but that's the argument.

85 I certainly don't get the outrage at all. If a cop asks you if you are a citizen, and you are, this new law does nothing to change you life other than possibly deporting your pot dealer eventually.

The only "outrage" I can see being even a remote possibility would be an increase in "driving while brown" incidents. With such a large hispanic population legally living in AZ already, I'm sure the police already have a handle on this problem.

Nobody is ever outraged that the police can randomly set up DUI checkpoints where they are allowed to stop you and question you without even the "resonable suspicion" caveat. In fact, I believe this would be a great way to get the whole process started. If you don't have a license on you and you are driving while brown, it's a little tough to complain because driving without a license is already against the law (atleast in my state, not sure about AZ) anyway. Give the cops your name and address, they can find out pretty damned quick that you are a citizen and off you go with a ticket. That doesn't seem unreasonable to me.

86

we'll spell HATE as H8TE on our signs

Wouldn't that be pronounced like Haiti?

87 My concern isn't with legal immigrants having to carry ID: I'm one, and I've carried my Green Card since Day One because as was correctly said, it is Federal Law (even though mine is actually white. No, I don't get that...).

My concern is with citizens having to carry ID: How is a cop supposed to know if person A walking down south Arizona Ave. is a citizen and person B is not? If he stops the citizen and they don't have a driver's license on them, how will that person prove their citizenship?

Posted by: ExurbanKevin at April 27, 2010 12:30 PM (toqoX)

Wait.  You're an immigrant?  GET HIM!

The citizen without ID, I'll guess, might be detained until he can prove citizenship.  At worst.  What was he doing without ID, just curious?

88 The economic boycott of Arizona crowd are probably the same group of assholes who were going to move out of the country when Bush was elected

89 Al Sharpton is going to Phoenix  to protest. May he have a nice desert heat wave to greet him.

90 the limousine liberals are going to have pay more for their organic arugula

Only about 3% more.  And FKOTUS says use your food stamps!

91

Something for the adventurous morons:

http://tinyurl.com/22omv5a

A machine gun safari.No, not really hunting, but it may get you in the mood for some Phoenix hobos.

92 A walking down south Arizona Ave. is a citizen and person B is not? If he stops the citizen and they don't have a driver's license on them, how will that person prove their citizenship?

But the law doesn't provide for this.  The cops just won't be hauling people off the street for no reason.  There has to be probable cause to ask for proof of citizenship, and YOU KNOW the commie lawyers will be lined up ready to make sure there aren't any.

93 I admit also that I am impressed with any woman with the title: Rum, Bitch Goddess of the Universe.

94 I have not seen FKOTUS yet. LOL.

95 Rubio is beginning to disappoint me.  And what's with Chris Christie not wanting to drill off the Jersey coast?  I thought he was all about reducing his state's deficit.

96 Darn that video made me so homesick. Good thing I put on waterproof mascara!

Every single leftie is repeating these lies nonstop on radio and TV.

Can we just secede now and get it over with? C'mon Texas and New Mexico, we can do it. I'm so tired of this crap.

97

So the onus falls on citizens and legal residents to carry some form of documentation, which is being equated with the burden of proof on people to prove their innocence (of immigration laws, at least).

I think it's hooey, but that's the argument.

Posted by: FireHorse at April 27, 2010 12:34 PM (cQyWA)

I don't buy it.  If you're stopped on reasonable suspicion for breaking some law or another, you have to produce ID anyway.  Try getting pulled over for taking a right against the red light and not having a driver license.  Bye-bye, car.  Who doesn't carry ID?  And why don't they?

98

I don't give a fuck what ANY REPUBLICAN or TALKING HEAD says.

They are not legally here.  They need to leave.  Period.

I don't give a fuck about the logistics, I don't care about the massive numbers, I don't give a flying fuck.

They are entitled to be here and I want them gone.  I don't give a fiddlers fart if they are from Kenya, England or Mexico.   Get the fuck out of my country motherfuckers.

99 I admit also that I am impressed with any woman with the title: Rum, Bitch Goddess of the Universe.

Posted by: maddogg at April 27, 2010 12:36 PM (OlN4e)

Don't encourage her.  She's drunk on souls.

100 @98,

The law, as i read it, said the officer must have "reasonable suspicion". That is a much lesser standard than probable cause.

101 If he stops the citizen and they don't have a driver's license on them, how will that person prove their citizenship?

Actually it is pretty damn simple. First they can't just stop and ask for an ID. They have to have a cause for stopping them. As to prime evidence that they are not a citizen the first evidence would be the fact that they can not speak English.

You are required to be a demonstrate a proficiency in English before becoming a naturalized citizen. If you can not speak English and you have no ID then odds become pretty damn good you are an illegal.

102

89 Of course.

And they completely didn't account for how wildly unpopular the HC bill would be. Indie voters--lost.  So then they went banking on all the illegals they were going to have on the dole via shamnesty. Oopsie.

The best laid plans ya'know.

Politically, they're fucked. And in complete panic mode.

103 FUBAR.  Stupid fucks will always have a reason to disagree. 

104 When I lived in England, I had to carry two forms of international identification at all times.  Since I didn't have a job (I was a minor with parents), I had to carry a passport and this green-colored cardboard book.

105 Posted by: gus at April 27, 2010 12:36 PM (Vqruj)

Dude.  Don't hold back.  Tell us how you really feel.

Here's a question for the Morons:  what if the illegal in question is a hot chick?  What if she digs you?

It's like the stealing-bread-to-feed-your-family thing.

106

#85 - It's a moonbat haven, that's for sure.  I spent some weeks there and found the surrounding area quite beautiful.  Then again, I kept me and my conservatism to myself.

We liked it too when we went there house hunting.  But living there and visiting there are two TOTALLY different situations.  The first is hell; the latter, is great since you know you're leaving to go back home.

 

107 Remember that with the support of Bush, a handful of Republicans (including McCain and Graham) and Democrats, it was still wildly unpopular.  I think it's because it violates Americans' ideologically-independent desire for fair play among other things.

And this is what I always fling back in a commie's face whenever I hear the "But Bush did it toooooooo..." whine. Yes, Bush did it too, and conservatives got all up in his face over it-- over this, and the Dubai ports deal.  Which is why neither of them came to be. 

Then again, this requires intellectual honesty, which seems to beyond the comprehension of most liberals.

108 Would annexing Mexico and making it the 51st state help with the problem?  It would be costly at first, but maybe it would pay for itself later?

52nd state.  Puerto Rico is up for a vote...this week or next.

Mexico has oil.  If only Chimpy McBooshitlerburton was the imperial tyrant the left insisted he was, we would have invaded and taken over five years ago.  Sigh.

109 When my wife (Canadian) lived in the States, she had to have her green card on her at all times, no exceptions.

It was never checked, but it's the rule.  It's just like a driver needing the license whenever operating a motor vehicle.  It's life as a permanent resident.  You are a guest in this country and you need to prove you have permission.  Period.

But hell, if the lefties have a problem with people proving citizenship to vote, they are CERTAINLY going to have a problem with people proving their permission to be here.

Posted by: grognard at April 27, 2010 12:11 PM (v0kvW)

This is a great point. How many of you morons have gotten into your car and driven to work only to realize to your horror that your driver's license is in your other purse or in your wallet on the nightstand? And pray you don't get pulled over WHEN YOU ARE HERE COMPLETELY LEGALLY?? It's ridiculous this is even an issue!!

110 Here's a question for the Morons:  what if the illegal in question is a hot chick?  What if she digs you?

It's like the stealing-bread-to-feed-your-family thing.

Posted by: FUBAR at April 27, 2010 12:39 PM (1fanL)

Do her, then drive her ass to the border.

111

I go to AZ all the time to go Mtn. Bike.

Not a rare occurance to come across Illegals in the Desert around Green Valley.  The place is filthy with them.

Elephant Head is a great ride, though.  Just ride armed.

112

And they completely didn't account for how wildly unpopular the HC bill would be. Indie voters--lost.  So then they went banking on all the illegals they were going to have on the dole via shamnesty. Oopsie.

The best laid plans ya'know.

Politically, they're fucked. And in complete panic mode.

Posted by: laceyunderalls at April 27, 2010 12:38 PM (Vz9fl)

You're hot when you're gloating.

113 The law, as i read it, said the officer must have "reasonable suspicion". That is a much lesser standard than probable cause.

From the linked article last night:

"For any lawful contact made by a law enforcement official or a law enforcement agencyÂ…where reasonable suspicion exists that the person is an alien who is unlawfully present in the United States, a reasonable attempt shall be made, when practicable, to determine the immigration status of the personÂ…

So there is more to it than that.

114

Dear illegals:  You're gonna have to wait until this law really starts to take effect before you'll see all the good stuff that's in it!

Someone needs to translate this into Spanish and put it on a billboard or two in AZ.

115 The law, as i read it, said the officer must have "reasonable suspicion". That is a much lesser standard than probable cause.

That is true, and I thank you for the correction.  But I still don't see how it allows for cops to simply stop people for no other reason than they're all brown and stuff.

116

Try getting pulled over for taking a right against the red light and not having a driver license.  Bye-bye, car.  Who doesn't carry ID?  And why don't they?

No necc true. Some states allow you to produce your id within 24 hours of being pulled over. No penalty. No fine.

117

No Heather Boooooosh was taking Iraq's oil and didn't have time for Mexico's.

Isn't it incredible that all that WAR FOR OIL bullshit and we have yet to get DROP ONE. 

 

118 Here's a question for the Morons:  what if the illegal in question is a hot chick?  What if she digs you?

Amnesty for hot chick immigrants.  An American in a math department at a US university will always have a nickname: Green Card.

119 the Dubai ports deal

Posted by: Filly at April 27, 2010 12:39 PM (dSJW9)

I was with Rush on the Dubai ports deal.

120 OT: AP headline "Obama urges bipartisan effort on soaring deficits".

Yeah, after unilaterally ramming through the Stimuseless and Pelosicare and trying to strangle the economy with Cap-and-Tax, suddenly "I Won" is a deficit hawk and looking for cover from the other side.

121 @119,

I take the "lawful contact" to be adding a restriction on top of reasonable suspicion. And it will be something else the prosecution has to prove if anyone is arrested, charged and goes to trial under this law.

122

For all of the mental midgets out there who can't quite wrap their miniscule pea-brains around the concept of documentation let me break it down for you. 

If you operate a motor vehicle (which the majority of people do) you MUST have a drivers license.  When the nice police man pulls you over for a traffic violation, the first thing he asks for is your drivers license.  Sound familiar?  No?  Let me make the connection for you.....HE'S ASKING FOR YOUR PAPERS!

Want to cash a check at your bank....they ask you for picture ID.  They are asking for your papers!  How do you get a state identification card?  You show up at the appropriate state agency with the paperwork that identifies you as being in the country legally.  Huh!  Who knew we'd been living in a Nazi state for so long.

So, for all the whiny illegal immigrant supporters out there crying about profiling, you tell me what a police officer is supposed to think when they pull someone over on a traffic stop and 1) the person doesn't speak English (maybe he only speaks Chinese), 2) he doesn't have ANY identification, 3) he's driving a car but doesn't have a drivers license, 4) do I need to keep going?

This is what's known as probable cause to try and determine the immigration status of this person, NOT the color of their skin as is being alledged by the open border, pro-illegal immigrant, pro law breaking shills.  By the way, cops cannot stop you for walking down the street unless they have a reasonable suspicion that you are currently involved in breaking the law (they just observed you walking out of a store carrying a T.V. at 2:00 am and the store is closed) or they suspect that you are a suspect in a crime that has been committed (you match the description of a suspect). 

123 Mexico has oil.  If only Chimpy McBooshitlerburton was the imperial tyrant the left insisted he was, we would have invaded and taken over five years ago.  Sigh.

Hell Heather, if we annexed Mexico the Dems would immediately call for a ban on all drilling in Mexico to prevent affecting the "pristine wilderness".

124

83 WTF happend to Nappy?? I thought of him as a Jersey homey!(maybe just too much a libertarian) Will have to scratch him off the X-mas card list now. Is everybody losing their friggin minds??

 

 

125

No necc true. Some states allow you to produce your id within 24 hours of being pulled over. No penalty. No fine.

Posted by: laceyunderalls at April 27, 2010 12:42 PM (Vz9fl)

No, I mean without a driver license.  Not just, not in possession of your driver license.

126 No Blood for Pintos!

127 !No Sangre por Refritos!

128

There are Border Patrol checkpoints all over southern Arizona.  They ask to the the driver's license of the driver, then ask each individual in the car where they were born - to hear their accent and see if they're up on US geography, but mainly to hear the accent.

Of course my yankee mother-in-law kept asking, "Why do they need to know where I was born?"  I was waiting for the BP to haul us in for transporting stupidity around.

129

You know what was some good TV last night?

Tucker Carlson asking Al Sharpton for a concrete solution to human traficking.

Sharpie responds that he would go after the Mexican cartels.
Carlson interjects:  "So you want to invade Mexico?"

The stunned reaction from Sharpie as he tried to collect his thoughts was a thing of wonder.

130

Try getting pulled over for taking a right against the red light and not having a driver license.  Bye-bye, car.  Who doesn't carry ID?  And why don't they?

No necc true. Some states allow you to produce your id within 24 hours of being pulled over. No penalty. No fine.

Yeah, I thought the typical penalty was that they threaten you with a loss of license, impounding of the car or other nasty things, but if you show up in court with it, you get a minimal fine.

The US code for not carrying your documentation talks about a max $100 fine (IIRC) or a maximum of a few days in jail.

131 Speaking of immigration and ahem diversity, apparently Noahs Ark has been found in Turkey.

I wouldn't worry to much about Rubio's statement, look at the fine line Odumbass is walking.

132 @121,

I don't think the law permits cops to stop anyone merely because they are brown. The cops still need reasonable suspicion and it must be lawful contact, as Vic pointed out to me.

133
This is the largest mass migration in human history.

Hi.

134 I wish the libs would really boycott Arizona.  I might be able to get close enough to see the big hole in the ground.

135

Yes, yes, those crazy government law enforcers are going to 'take a mile' out of the hides of any unreasonably suspicious individuals they see!  

Is there any cop/officer who is going to go out of his way to crack some kneecaps and split some skulls because of this "new" provision?  Seriously, aren't they busy enough or does this legislation include incentive pay for "most teeth and ears," thereby sweeting the deal?

136 Last time I left my driver's license in a different pair of pants, I realized I didn't have it when I was trying to buy Sudafed to fix a vicious sinus headache.  Nevermind that 80% of the meth in the U.S. comes from, get this, Mexico--my sinuses are the real threat to America.

So...it's wrong to ask legal residents in AZ to carry ID, in an effort to stop drug cartels from smuggling product and personnel over the border and assaulting/raping/killing legal residents and destroying their property.  But it's OK to demand I produce ID when I'm looking for headache relief, because the pills are used to make drugs on a scale dwarfed by the drug cartels that can't be asked to produce ID because that's wrong.


I've just given myself a new headache.

137

The solution is simple. 

We make a Twenty Mile Trade Zone to buffer the Countries.  A Strip of land from Pacific to Atlantic. 

We make 100% of Import and Export traffic run through it.  No more ports anywhere but there.  This solves a ton of other problems as well.  From Homeland Security Threats to Union Busting and beyond.

ALL commerce runs through the Trade Zone belt.  From Cargo Ship to Truck, Storage and Inspections... it takes place there.

Then we let the Private Sector Police it. 

No more fence hoppers.  

Also, Moats.  We could use a good Moat filled with Gator Gar!

138

I'd be willing to bet that everyone on the side of open borders has a front door on their house with a lock on it.

If they were really true to their beliefs, they'd allow anybody to walk right in to their homes.

139 Giant Fucking Gator Gar!

140

HeatherRadish - the problem is, most lefties like it when laws make things harder for law-abiding citizens to do lawful things that lefties don't like (like own a gun).  Law breakers give a shit about new paperwork that they aren't gonna fill out anyway...

The problem here is AZ has actually crafted a law that would pretty much go unnoticed by law-abiding citizens, and only makes things more challenging for law-breakers / Dem constituents.  We are making THEM (illegal aliens) play by OUR (average citizens with an ID in our wallet) rules.

141 What was he doing without ID, just curious? So you're saying you're ok with a National ID card to be carried on you at all times? I thought that was a no-no for conservatives.... My wife (a natural-born Arizonan, a rarity in this state) goes around without her purse quite often. What happens if she's walking somewheres and not driving. If she jay-walks and cop catches her? And I re the "Gosh, when I was in (insert name of country here) I had to carry ID with me at all times" defense: I thought the U.S. wasn't supposed to use foreign law as a basis for our laws...

142 We are making THEM (illegal aliens) play by OUR (average citizens with an ID in our wallet) rules.

Yeah.  My brain breaks down when I try to figure out why that's bad.  It's like trying to believe that pi is really 4.

143

"And I re the "Gosh, when I was in (insert name of country here) I had to carry ID with me at all times" defense: I thought the U.S. wasn't supposed to use foreign law as a basis for our laws..."

We aren't.  We have the SAME LAWS that these other countries have.  The difference is, other countries actually enforce this law.  We haven't.  We should.  AZ is.

144 123

No Heather Boooooosh was taking Iraq's oil and didn't have time for Mexico's.

Isn't it incredible that all that WAR FOR OIL bullshit and we have yet to get DROP ONE.

Only because we were thwarted by the valiant Iraqi resistance!

145

149:  We can't get our own federal government to play by the rules - why would we expect the illegals to do so?

146

Boycott? People already don't want to go stay in a hotel that might be raided any time by illegal mexicans raiding over the border to kidnap you for money. Or it is common to be kidnapped in a car jacking. You get taken back to Mexico and held for ransom. Delightful! I am sure conventioneers are lining up to enjoy that prospect.

How can we get the racist leftist facists to boycott my state?

147 If this means we'll get less liberals stinking up my town, I'm all for it.

148 this whole issue is bs from the libs side.  If we had massive illegal white immigration from Ireland, Briton and those evil Scandis, the libs would be screaming for walls 20 miles high.  We of course would be consistent lacking in utopian dreams and white guilt.

149 If we had massive illegal white immigration from Ireland, Briton and those evil Scandis, the libs would be screaming for walls 20 miles high.

There's quite a bit of illegal Irish and Polish* in Chicago and Wisconsin.  They enter legally and never leave.  Irish without criminal records can enter any time under the Visa Waiver Program.  Polish citizens need to apply for a visa...for awhile they were denying young people headed to Chicago to see family, because of the high rate of non-return.

* check the woman who "vacationed" here because she was pregnant, and her husband with the fake Swedish passport coming in through Mexico.

150 someone, somewhere, somehow, has to tell Mexico to pull its you know what out of its you know what and start acting like a functional country.

that is incredibly racist.  Why do you hate so?

151

#91 Nobody is ever outraged that the police can randomly set up DUI checkpoints where they are allowed to stop you and question you without even the "resonable suspicion" caveat.

Actually, at least in Oklahoma, it is not legal for the police to do the kind of checkpoints you describe.

152

Boycott Arizona! because you really want to be on this guy's side.

http://www.protestarizona.com/

153

Some states allow you to produce your [license] within 24 hours of being pulled over. No penalty. No fine.

New York is like that, but not Connecticut.

154 If it hasn't been mentioned yet: looks like the LOL's very own Guitierrez (sp?) Dumbass - IL, is one of the most vocal critics of AZ's new law.  Hey Guitty, don't you think you have things that are, you know, closer to home that need tending to?

155 Bank robbery is a Federal crime. Does anyone expect local and state law enforcement officers to turn a blind eye to bank robbery because it's the feds job to handle it?

156 So you're saying you're ok with a National ID card to be carried on you at all times? I thought that was a no-no for conservatives....

My wife (a natural-born Arizonan, a rarity in this state) goes around without her purse quite often. What happens if she's walking somewheres and not driving. If she jay-walks and cop catches her?

And I re the "Gosh, when I was in (insert name of country here) I had to carry ID with me at all times" defense: I thought the U.S. wasn't supposed to use foreign law as a basis for our laws...

Posted by: ExurbanKevin at April 27, 2010 12:58 PM (toqoX)

I'm OK with a state-issued ID card to be carried with you when you want to do adult things, which is what we have now.  And I'm OK with holding someone a policeman has reasonable suspicion of being an illegal until that someone can arrange to have ID shown to the policeman.  It's not like they're gonna be instantly deported, or tortured.

Is illegal immigration a huge problem or not?  Is anyone willing to, you know, do anything at all to combat it?  Carrying ID voluntarily does not seem like a heavy burden.  To me.

What was your wife doing that gave the cop reasonable suspicion that she was illegal?  She no speak English?

157 My wife (a natural-born Arizonan, a rarity in this state) goes around without her purse quite often. What happens if she's walking somewheres and not driving. If she jay-walks and cop catches her?

Just curious but what 'reasonable suspicion' would a cop have to think your wife was here illegally?

There has to be something more to it than 'no carrying ID'. Not carrying ID alone is not the basis for reasonable suspicion.

158 Why are the legal immigrants bitching?

It's a race thing....

159 Adding to my 165...

I'm pretty sure that if a cop catches you doing something (jay walking in your example) and you don't have ID, they can hold you to you provide it now. They don't just arrest or write tickets to someone based on the name they are given. They have to confirm the ID.

So what exactly would this law change?

160 It's a race thing....

Posted by: Blacque Jacques Shellacque at April 27, 2010 01:43 PM (Q75cY)

Yeah.  The Mexicans I know are proudly, openly racist - not "you suck" racist" but "we're better" racist.  It's funny.  I have a friend who's father is an illegal and mother is American, and she self-identifies as Mexican.  When she says "our people," she ain't talking about Americans.  It's a good thing she's hot.

And lots of the illegals don't want a path to citizenship.  They want to work, get paid, send money back to Mexico, and retire to Mexico.  Then there's the leftard Mexican-Americans.

161 Posted by: DrewM. at April 27, 2010 01:44 PM (9B5OK)

Quit cribbing my comments.

162

168  We have some of the opposite around here -- Mexican-Americans who absolutely hate illegals; in fact, they hate the La Raza/bilingual society legals too.

As for carrying the ID thing -- shhh! I just got busted on a speeding violation with no driver's license on me.  Seriously, the whole biometric national id card idea gives me the creeps -- and that' s the way it'll go towards.

 

163 Seriously, the whole biometric national id card idea gives me the creeps -- and that' s the way it'll go towards.

Posted by: unknown jane at April 27, 2010 01:57 PM (5/yRG)

I don't think so.  What with having any form of picture ID now accepted and being able to speak English, I don't see the need for a Super-Duper National ID card.

164 I am definitely going to visit Arizona this summer.  I have a good friend who lives there, of course I was planning to do this even before the law was signed, but I'll be sure to buy some extra souvenirs while I'm there.

165 I'm a LEGAL immigrant, with my "green card" currently on my person, as required by US law. Anyone in this country ILLEGALLY is, by definition, not complying with US law, and can get stuffed.

166 I'm a LEGAL immigrant, with my "green card" currently on my person, as required by US law. Anyone in this country ILLEGALLY is, by definition, not complying with US law, and can get stuffed.

Posted by: kcs at April 27, 2010 02:03 PM (CrJzY)

*cries* That's so beautiful.

167

172  I'm just saying, there are those who would use this crisis as an excuse to push that biometric card; that I don't care for.

And the cop let me off the hook on not having my license, which was not quite right of him -- but hey, thanks anyway man; the speeding ticket was expensive enough.

168 One psychologically unfit deputy tried to give me a speeding ticket for passing a car in a passing zone.    I didn't believe it either till he handed me a warning ticket.

169 144: Forget moats. What we need is a real "virtual fence," aka some signs saying in Spanish and English that there is a minefield! Actually, there don't have to be any mines. We just have to dig a bunch of holes, put dummy mines into the holes, and say that they are live mines all while being televised. Maybe detonate one or two real ones as a demo (on TV of course) just for effect. Every once in a while get the TV out to show a body bag being removed from next to a blast crater.

170 I changed my plans and have canceled my kalifornia vacation and am going to Arizona, going to visit a few gun shows while I am there.

171 How about a bunch of inflatable monster ants arrayed a few hundred yards back from the border? No one likes giant ants.

172 *digs out his WELCOME, ANTS!" banner*

173 I'm just saying, there are those who would use this crisis as an excuse to push that biometric card; that I don't care for.

Actually Grahamnasty was using the card as a benefit for pushing Amnesty-III. Like having that stupid ID card was a good thing.

It has been shot down many times before because most people with half a brain know that the card would be counterfeited long before they even got it out to the people who were supposed to have it.

174 Arizone s a Great place to visit!

175 "That is true, and I thank you for the correction. But I still don't see how it allows for cops to simply stop people for no other reason than they're all brown and stuff." Im at work so I apologize if someone has already covered it but..... Same reason we SHOULD be profiling muslims. There is a problem with many many illegals aliens, and the vast majority of them are brown. Sorry, I know it sucks if youre brown and legal and all, but somethings gotta be done. Besides, if you arent doing anything illegal, its not that much of a hassle. If you are, then you better be a whole lot more careful. Really, why is this so hard to figure out?

176 Nice screed by Robinson.  Note how he starts the whole thing off with a strawman, and it never gets better?



The entire premise being used here is to demonize us of going after everyone that looks different.  Unfortunately for Robinson, and the Left, anyone with 2 functional brain cells or more will read the text, and realize that that is not the case.

As the left always conflates our disgust of illegal immigration with legal immigration it does not surprise me.  It is the modus operandi, after all.

177 Rubio is no leader.  Republican yes, leader no. 

178 Sorry, I just booked a trip to Vegas already. I want to thank then in advance for booting Harry "the body" Reid. Figured they deserved some of my business.

179 Hmm, Obama wants control over finances, and voila, Goldman-Sachs gets indicted.  Obama wants to make all illegal immigrants into Democratic voters and voila, Arizona passes a law he can use as a pretext to force amnesty into law in the interest of "fairness." 

Hmm.

180

Ahh, how things change.  I remember as a yout' in south Jersey, public service announcements on the Philly TV every year around Christmas reminding aliens to register.

Did a quickie search and there's a NYT article from '67:  "Aliens Told to Register Addresses in January."

I wonder when we stopped that?

 

181 ...it's a lovely place that you may want to consider when making any vacation plans.

I highly recommend the northern part of AZ.

182

Yeah.  The Mexicans I know are proudly, openly racist - not "you suck" racist" but "we're better" racist.  It's funny.  I have a friend who's father is an illegal and mother is American, and she self-identifies as Mexican.  When she says "our people," she ain't talking about Americans.  It's a good thing she's hot.

Where ? I have room in my shipping container for them.

183

What ever happened to Bush's Wars? I don't hear about those any more.

184 (Mostly) Nice state, Arizona - as long as you stay roughly 20 miles north of Tucson and/or any part of its southern border, everything is pretty good, even the climate - if you really don't like "hot" (as in either climate or cuisine), though, better stick with the northernmost one-third. Arizona politicians have a tendency to be a bit too quick with stuff like freeway speed cameras and trying to ding you for DMV "fees" if you're in the state more than about 90 days at a time, but they have a very civilized attitude, mostly, about personal firearms and self-defense. Also, now that their recent Gubernatorial-moron mistake has shuffled off to DeeCee to - heh! - "lead" the Department of Homeland (In)Security (lookin' at you, Napolitano!), their Statehouse is seemingly getting its house somewhat in working order. Looks like there's a fair chance they'll be sending ol' Johnny McStain to the showers, as well, thus getting him off our Congressional case...

Phoenix, for instance, is a pretty good city, as cities go (Hot/dry climate, but "desert" is like that, y'know, and there're a lot of us who kinda like that, 'specially in a place for "retirement") - lots of neat places to go/things to do.

They should definitely be rewarded for at least trying to identify and remove some of the illegals - that's more, by far, than we can reasonably expect from The Obamanation, his Demonrat HenchCongress or any of the DHS/ICE bureaurats we're presently infested with.

On another somewhat-related note: I've lived and worked in three foreign countries, two of them Middle-European (both members of the EU), and one Scandinavian, always as a foreign contractor - and each time I've done so, I was carefully warned by the contract houses that I must have my U.S. passport, or a copy of it, at least, plus a copy of my contract agreement or other proof of being legally resident in-country with me at all times. Onerous or not (I did not consider it so), it's their countries and their rules. Even with the liberalized border-crossing rules among EU countries, being unable to provide proper, verifiable I.D. whenever asked can result in expulsion - and, in most countries, the cops don't have to have "reasonable suspicion" or "probable cause" to ask for I.D. We're very loose in the U.S. about requiring people to account for their being here - which is, in my opinion, mostly a good thing - most of the rest of the world is not nearly as lax about that.

Try, for instance, not having - and producing, on request of any cop, for any reason at all - proper I.D. in Mexico City, and see what happens.

185 I find all this "papers please" stuff amusing regarding immigration. Why you ask? Oh, because the border patrol (along with customs search teams) have had CHECKPOINTS ON HIGHWAYS for several years now in Arizona and other states. Go look up on youtube the guy form Arizona that won a court case over it, "checkpointusa" I believe is the user name. This one checkpoint on a state highway in AZ requires all vehicles to stop and the border patrol goons ask "are you a US citizen?" and get all uppity if you don't want to answer. This is on a highway that is East-West north of the border ( 50 miles or more IIRC), a road that NEVER intersects with the AZ-Mexico border.

Heaven forfend the border patrol actually patrol the borders instead 100 miles inland.

186 I ain't reading all the comments. So if this was said, I apologize.

I'll bet the shit heads calling for a boycott of AZ never intended to go there anyway.
No loss on that front.
However, I bet that they now have a lot of Californians interested in moving there.

I would if a good job happened to present itself.