December 15, 2010
— Ace Experts guess the IDF did it, but in a second article I'll link in a second there's plenty of speculation it was the US, too.
The Stuxnet virus, which has attacked Iran’s nuclear facilities and which Israel is suspected of creating, has set back the Islamic Republic’s nuclear program by two years, a top German computer consultant who was one of the first experts to analyze the program’s code told The Jerusalem Post on Tuesday.“It will take two years for Iran to get back on track,” Langer said in a telephone interview from his office in Hamburg, Germany. “This was nearly as effective as a military strike, but even better since there are no fatalities and no full-blown war. From a military perspective, this was a huge success.”
...
Last month, the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA), the United NationÂ’s nuclear watchdog, said that Iran had suspended work at its nuclear-field production facilities, likely a result of the Stuxnet virus.
This long piece from Newsweek (which I'll digest if you're boycotting) gives me some hope that someone, somewhere in the intelligence committee knows what the fuck they're doing.
In case you didn't know how Stuxnet worked (I didn't), here's the brief: The high-speed centrifuges spin so quickly they need very careful monitoring by a computer program to slow them or speed them up or balance them. Obviously, this happens far too quickly for any human being to be able to handle it; it's automated. If they spin wrong, it causes mechanical damage and break-downs.
The Stuxnet was introduced physically to the computers monitoring the centrifuges physically by a USB drive or the like (and possibly unknowingly; a technician might have had his thumb-drive secretly infected). It then waited for a while, spreading itself around. At an appointed time it began to deliberately cause the centrifuges to spin wrong and thus the break-downs; many centrifuges are broken or out of service.
One thing about the worm that didn't quite work is that it was supposed to disappear, invisibly, probably so that the Iranian scientists would never discover what the problem was; or to possibly prevent replication by enemy hackers; or perhaps to not leave a trail (for legal reasons, Newsweek guesses, but what? What, is Iran going to sue?); or perhaps to make sure the Stuxnet never somehow got out and started screwing up non-targeted machines by accident.
But the worm was discovered, and is now being analyzed by hackers and cyber-security expert, who call it a work of art.
The real damage to the Iranian nuclear program, however, was done by Stuxnet—the most sophisticated computer worm ever detected and analyzed, one targeting hardware as well as software, and a paradigm of covert cyberweapons to come. “Stuxnet is the start of a new era,” says Stewart Baker, former general counsel of the U.S. National Security Agency. “It’s the first time we’ve actually seen a weapon created by a state to achieve a goal that you would otherwise have used multiple cruise missiles to achieve.”According to figures compiled by David Albright of the Institute for Science and International Security, a Washington think tank that follows the Iranian program closely, Tehran had major problems bringing new centrifuges online throughout 2009. The first 4,000 already installed at the Natanz facility continued to spin, but the next 5,000 were beset by delays. The worst problems came in an array of centrifuges known as A-26, which Iran began installing in late 2008—around the time Stuxnet was sent on its mission. In the late summer of 2009, half the functioning A-26 centrifuges had to be pulled out of service. At the turn of this year, Albright has learned, 1,000 more simply broke down. This may have been the “limited number” Ahmadinejad was talking about. [Reference is to a previous quote in which Ahmadinejad reversed the state's official line that the attack was ineffective and conceded that a "limited number" of centrifuges were temporarily taken off-line.]
This makes it seem dispositive that it was state action, and not, say, some White Hat hackers deciding to do some good on their own:
What’s clear, says Clarke, is that major resources went into Stuxnet’s development. Microsoft estimates that building the virus likely took 10,000 man-days of labor by top-rank software engineers. Unlike most of the worms and viruses that wreak havoc on computers, this one was not designed to spread far and wide, doing damage wherever it landed. It is structured to target a specific set of devices manufactured only in Finland and Iran that are used to determine the speed at which the centrifuges rotate. If that speed is not modulated perfectly, vibrations make the machines break down, as indeed they have. According to Eric Chien of the antivirus firm Symantec, who has pulled Stuxnet apart like a strand of DNA, all that incredibly complex information was built into it before it ever infected the Iranian system. Clarke suggests that whoever developed Stuxnet probably had the same types of software and centrifuges on which to run tests. “That’s expensive,” he says. “That’s millions of dollars.”
The article also discusses the assassinations of the Iranian scientists. Newsweek's guess is that Israel did the violent stuff, and America did the Stuxnet, but Israel also has a legendary cyber unit that could be responsible.
The last couple of paragraphs stress that the super-sophisticated, 10,000+ man-days worm, now having been discovered, can be modified and used as weapon by others.
Posted by: Ace at
11:07 AM
| Comments (147)
Post contains 900 words, total size 6 kb.
Posted by: Vic at December 15, 2010 11:11 AM (e4sSD)
Posted by: torabora at December 15, 2010 11:12 AM (3RUIO)
I wondered that as well. I think they relied more on gaseous diffusion for the U-235. Hanford though used centrifuges for filtering the Pu-239 from the activated fuel.
Posted by: Vic at December 15, 2010 11:12 AM (e4sSD)
Posted by: moviegique at December 15, 2010 11:14 AM (ey5wt)
Posted by: Andy at December 15, 2010 11:15 AM (5Rurq)
Posted by: ace at December 15, 2010 11:15 AM (nj1bB)
Posted by: ace at December 15, 2010 11:16 AM (nj1bB)
Posted by: 2549 at December 15, 2010 11:17 AM (kvxPn)
Posted by: ace at December 15, 2010 11:19 AM (nj1bB)
I hate to be that guy but isn't this a pretty dangerous thing that's just out there now for anyone to use? I hope this doesn't come back to bite us in the ass.
Posted by: eleven at December 15, 2010 11:20 AM (7DB+a)
Didn't stux also send all of the info to servers somewhere so that intel agencies could get a play by play of what was going on and where?
If I recall the first few articles I read described how stuxnet allowed NSA to watch what the Iranians were up to.
Posted by: garrett at December 15, 2010 11:21 AM (p8w7N)
Posted by: JEA at December 15, 2010 11:22 AM (+Wvn3)
but this sort of thing, which just requires highly-skilled guys and lots of money to fund them, is up our alley.
I don't imagine the Saudis would be averse to funding something like this.
Posted by: garrett at December 15, 2010 11:22 AM (p8w7N)
Posted by: Jean at December 15, 2010 11:24 AM (aemFw)
Posted by: rdbrewer at December 15, 2010 11:24 AM (nwAys)
Posted by: rdbrewer at December 15, 2010 11:24 AM (nwAys)
Just in time for Ramadan. 5,000 A-26 centrifuges, shiny, barely used. Great for making haram mai tais or as high tech coffee table (just add a nice glass top). A must for any developing country thinking about starting a nuclear weapons program.
Cash only, no refunds.
Posted by: MahmoudsList at December 15, 2010 11:26 AM (QKKT0)
The beauty behind our Stuxnet worm it that it also allows the Uranium to self baste!
Saving you time and resulting in a leaner and healthier Nuclear Arsenal.
Posted by: Ron Popeil at December 15, 2010 11:26 AM (p8w7N)
Anyone who relies only on computers for their turbine overspeed trips deserves everything they get.
Posted by: Vic at December 15, 2010 11:27 AM (e4sSD)
Posted by: Slublog at December 15, 2010 11:27 AM (0nqdj)
I wouldn't put much faith in the estimate of how long it set Mad Mahmoud's boys back, either. Our "experts" have been all over the map on enemies' nuke programs...my guess is that both Iran and the Norks are more ready than we know.
Posted by: MrScribbler at December 15, 2010 11:29 AM (Ulu3i)
Posted by: rdbrewer at December 15, 2010 11:29 AM (nwAys)
Would we have to pay anyone that might have gotten pulled over for speeding?
Posted by: Rickshaw Jack at December 15, 2010 11:30 AM (8qed4)
It also auto-dialled for "Tuesday pork special" pizzas with anchovies to be delivered to the command centre.
Posted by: andycanuck at December 15, 2010 11:31 AM (KHKnV)
Posted by: ¤§EZB§¤ at December 15, 2010 11:31 AM (Ty06w)
That little bit of knowledge has been widespread for decades. Everyone knows how to do it. What they do is try to limit the spread of the machinery used to do it with.
Unfortunately France, Russia, and possibly Germany are more than willing to sell anyone this stuff.
Posted by: Vic at December 15, 2010 11:32 AM (e4sSD)
In the 40's it was gaseous diffusion and electromagnetic separation. There's a funny story about the electromagnet method in WWII. Copper was under war rations and General Groves needed large amounts of conductor to make the magnets during the Manhattan Project. He borrowed a large portion of silver reserves from West Point and had his engineers use the silver for the electromagnets.
Posted by: 2549 at December 15, 2010 11:32 AM (kvxPn)
Who hates cleaning up after Uranium enrichment?
I know! By the time you are finished with the Centrifuges and Turbines, the Test Tubes and the piles and piles of Haz-Mat suits you begin to wonder if going Nuclear is even worth the trouble...
Now, thanks to RonCo, there's none of that messy cleanup. We've taken care of it all for you!
Finished. Done. Gone.
You can get back to living your ,again, with Stuxnet by RonCo.
Posted by: Ron Popeil at December 15, 2010 11:33 AM (p8w7N)
So do you think that whoever developed this thing has also made a protection against it?
Posted by: Roadking at December 15, 2010 11:33 AM (kYI+C)
I hate to be that guy but isn't this a pretty dangerous thing that's just out there now for anyone to use? I hope this doesn't come back to bite us in the ass.
Posted by: eleven at December 15, 2010 03:20 PM (7DB+a)
Well I think its a pretty designer virus that really can't hurt anything in the real world. And the only reason its out is because some dumbass Iranian took a laptop or drive out of the facility it affected and hooked it up to the open internet. I think nuke facilities are usually closed systems, and they might not even be using the equipment this thing was specifically designed to fuck up.
Posted by: buzzion at December 15, 2010 11:33 AM (oVQFe)
This and all the other wailing screams about "Ohhh Noesssss! They can back engineer it!"
Uhmmm ok, how many of you got a Siemens Controller spinning your clothes dryer? The truth is, if the Iranians had followed Best Practices when it came to computer/network security, this thing would have never entered their plant.
Posted by: Rickshaw Jack at December 15, 2010 11:35 AM (8qed4)
Posted by: AmishDude at December 15, 2010 11:35 AM (BvBKY)
I think nuke facilities are usually closed systems, and they might not even be using the equipment this thing was specifically designed to fuck up.
Iran's was a closed system too. It still got in.
Posted by: Cicero at December 15, 2010 11:36 AM (QKKT0)
I think nuke facilities are usually closed systems, and they might not even be using the equipment this thing was specifically designed to fuck up.
It targets Siemens hardware specifically. The Worm knows whose/ which hardware it is after.
It has it's own ethos.
Posted by: garrett at December 15, 2010 11:37 AM (p8w7N)
I'd always figured we'd reach this point, (introducing malicious code into industrial/manufacturing systems), when PLCs began using ethernet NICs & TCP-IP as a programming interface.
The Siemens Simatic S-7 is a pretty sophisticated processor, and the communication interface modules and capabilities are practically limitless.
Kudos to the team.
Posted by: Fritz at December 15, 2010 11:37 AM (GwPRU)
Posted by: Jean at December 15, 2010 11:38 AM (Ja6pC)
Posted by: GuyfromNH at December 15, 2010 11:38 AM (kbOju)
I like the notion that the IDF did it. That drives the Iranians the most crazy.
We have been working on the Stealth Squirrel for almost a decade. This was it's first successful mission, As far as you know.
Posted by: IDF at December 15, 2010 11:39 AM (p8w7N)
Posted by: AoSHQ's DarkLord© at December 15, 2010 11:39 AM (GBXon)
“This was nearly as effective as a military strike, but even better since there are no fatalities and no full-blown war. From a military perspective, this was a huge success.”
Yeah, I agree that sounds like it was very successful. But some people are concerned that now this opens the door for more cyber warfare. Which is a legitimate concern. But what really worries me is Iran with nukes. Compared to that, this seems like a petty-ante concern.
I hate to be that guy but isn't this a pretty dangerous thing that's just out there now for anyone to use? I hope this doesn't come back to bite us in the ass.
Posted by: eleven at December 15, 2010 03:20 PM (7DB+a
See my above paragraph in answer to your concerns, eleven.
Posted by: ed at December 15, 2010 11:39 AM (QLhy5)
That assumes that a program which took years to create was begun under President BOHICA.
Just sayin'.
Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) at December 15, 2010 11:39 AM (8y9MW)
You're right...the point I was making, and the article I read a while back, too... it didn't only attack the fuel production/enrichment side of the operation. That denies them the ability of producing fuel in Iran.
It was designed to attack PLC's and computer gear inside the power plant. Should they have acquired fuel from Russia or France or someone else, the worm would have denied them the ability to operate the power plant.
It was total war on their nuclear industry.
Posted by: 2549 at December 15, 2010 11:40 AM (kvxPn)
Uhmmmm no it wasn't.
They let any contractor on to the main network. Best Practices specifically states that non essential computers be regulated to an alternate network. The Iranians were wide open. Hell I seen a screen shot and they were using hacked win2k machines that had never been patched. The Iranians were dumb when it came to network security.
Posted by: Rickshaw Jack at December 15, 2010 11:41 AM (8qed4)
Posted by: Jean at December 15, 2010 11:42 AM (aemFw)
Ummm, you guys always bitch about us not doing anything dramatically "cloak and daggery".
Well, our failures are unfortunately well known. But our successes never come to light. So there!
Which er, means that we didn't have anything to do with this successful program.
Damn it...
Posted by: The CIA at December 15, 2010 11:42 AM (QLhy5)
I stand corrected Pu was recovered at Hanford using chemical precipitation.
http://tinyurl.com/274kxpy
Posted by: Vic at December 15, 2010 11:42 AM (e4sSD)
And kudos to whoever authorized/wrote/delivered the Stuxnet worm.
(I really hope we're keeping our nuke facilities safe from any Bradley Manning, PhDs.)
Posted by: Lincolntf at December 15, 2010 11:43 AM (MiG8u)
Posted by: FlaviusJulius at December 15, 2010 11:43 AM (SJ6/3)
Why haven't we pushed a computer worm into Wikileaks?
We could render their databanks worthless by flooding their data files with text excerpts from the Obama health care bill, the porkulus bills, etc.?
Put that gibberish to some good use for a change...
Posted by: Kortezzi at December 15, 2010 11:44 AM (piR98)
Since the antivirus firms have it all protected machines should wind up protected. And MS, etc. should be able to close all the original exploits on updating systems.
Kicking the can further down the road is good but ultimately the Mullahs, the 12thers (bring on the end times) and Persia uber Alles crowd have all got to go.
Posted by: Dave at December 15, 2010 11:45 AM (2LwW2)
Posted by: Jean at December 15, 2010 11:45 AM (HKVGZ)
Too bad our intelligence community can't prevent some homosexual Australian from getting 250K classified files.
Posted by: Soothsayer for RNC Chair at December 15, 2010 11:46 AM (uFokq)
Posted by: Tushar at December 15, 2010 11:47 AM (PGSXB)
The scariest thing here (form the IT world view) is that someone physically broke into 2 different hardware vendors buildings and stole their security certificate code.
THAT is more frightening than just about anything else about STUXNET.
Posted by: Rickshaw Jack at December 15, 2010 11:47 AM (8qed4)
Posted by: Helen Thomas at December 15, 2010 11:48 AM (LLZiU)
Posted by: Jean at December 15, 2010 11:49 AM (G5WHn)
One of the many was it spread was by using the MS Network Print spooler to attack machines on the same MS network name. That was one of the many day 1 vulnerabilities they used. There were some others but as far as I know that was it's main way to spread.
Posted by: Rickshaw Jack at December 15, 2010 11:50 AM (8qed4)
100s of these. They weren't using centrifuges back then but did need constant adjustment.
Posted by: Buzzsaw at December 15, 2010 11:50 AM (tf9Ne)
It fairly indiscriminately infects things that run Windows (you could have it sitting in your lap right now), looks for a specific machine-control program, looks for some processor-specific code inside that, looks for some controlled-machine-specific code if it finds the right processor code, and, if present, shits a little in your nuke centrifuge.
That last part isn't much of a thing. You just need a manual for the machine—which you're probably a spy or a nuke or a nuke-spy kind of guy if you have it, but you're not necessarily massively bankrolled and testing it on your own centrifuge. You just wouldn't have to. The book that comes with that kind of machine tells you exactly how to control it, and it works exactly like it says.
As a self-concealing carrier for bad stuff, it's a quality virus, but no part of it is unprecedented, and now it's known, so it's probably useless against any spy-worthy target. Creeps can still use it to turn on computer-illiterates' webcams and print out scary messages while they're not home or whatever, which is good/bad fun for creeps, but that's about it. Once it got leaked—maybe intentionally—no one could use it for anything serious anymore. Probably.
Posted by: oblig. at December 15, 2010 11:51 AM (x7Ao8)
I think they relied more on gaseous diffusion for the U-235. Hanford though used centrifuges for filtering the Pu-239 from the activated fuel.
Oh now I get it.
Posted by: USS Diversity at December 15, 2010 11:51 AM (RWtqz)
Nobody (outside those who ain't talking) seems to know which country was responsible, but it's awesome nonetheless. Given how complex the experts are saying Stuxnet was, it's possible that more than one country collaborated on it.
A side effect has been that Iran has gotten paranoid regarding their own people, possibly slowing down work even further as they try to increase security.
Posted by: Hollowpoint at December 15, 2010 11:53 AM (plsiE)
Either the Israelis did this or we did. And Bush knew about it, I am sure.
Now, if we could develop a similar program to remove all of the foreign and fake-name donations going to Obama 2012. we would be set!
Posted by: Miss Marple at December 15, 2010 11:55 AM (Fo83G)
You young whippersnappers have it easy. Back when I was your age, I had to parachute into occupied Norway and covertly ski into an impregnable fortress in the dead of winter to sabotage the Nazi heavy water program.
Posted by: Zombie Knut Haukelid at December 15, 2010 11:55 AM (6kyQC)
Oh they have outright started killing scientist for this. The last count was something around 4-8 or so. Poor bastards.
Posted by: Rickshaw Jack at December 15, 2010 11:56 AM (8qed4)
Posted by: Empire of Jeff in 2012 at December 15, 2010 11:57 AM (Idoz0)
Were the program there, it would be used by the "wrong" side to launder fraud.
Posted by: maverick muse at December 15, 2010 11:57 AM (H+LJc)
. I think nuke facilities are usually closed systems, and they might not even be using the equipment this thing was specifically designed to fuck up.
THINK AGAIN.
Posted by: STUXNET 2.0 at December 15, 2010 11:57 AM (GStPL)
Oh if I had to guess, I would put it at about 80 percent sure it was them. They have all the tools, and probably better access to the Taiwanese companies that were broken into to steal the security certificates.
Posted by: Rickshaw Jack at December 15, 2010 11:58 AM (8qed4)
Posted by: halfsek at December 15, 2010 11:58 AM (EdfGd)
Based on what I've read about Stuxnet in more dorky and less wrong-all-the-time publications, this story seriously oversells the thing. The virus is well-designed, but not in a "You need a reactor to test it on" sort of way, because...computers do not work that way.
Given how much effort apparently went into it, I find it unlikely that it wasn't tested first.
It's less a question of how computers work than how centrifuges (not reactors) work. How many people have access to centrifuge controllers and monitoring systems? From what the experts are saying, it's far more complicated than "if processor control code exists, execute program".
The entire point is that this was almost certainly done by a state actor with massive resources and not a few hacker nerds working on their own.
Posted by: Hollowpoint at December 15, 2010 12:00 PM (plsiE)
I agree, but could the US do it? Meh not so sure.
We have done it before, but that spine in the US CIA is long gone I'm afraid.
Posted by: Rickshaw Jack at December 15, 2010 12:02 PM (8qed4)
Cocksucker- in- chief is pretty bummed right now.
Speilberg will make a movie about those mean Jews killing those poor harmless scientists.
Posted by: eleven at December 15, 2010 12:03 PM (7DB+a)
Posted by: pitchforksandpowder at December 15, 2010 12:04 PM (GStPL)
We did this to the cock sucking soviets back in the 80's.
Posted by: Rickshaw Jack at December 15, 2010 12:06 PM (8qed4)
Posted by: Lincolntf at December 15, 2010 12:06 PM (MiG8u)
Posted by: Rickshaw Jack at December 15, 2010 12:07 PM (8qed4)
Don't count out the Chinese
http://tinyurl.com/268l4zw
It's possible they were involved, but I don't see the motivation. They might be publicly opposed to Iran getting nukes, but they seem relatively lukewarm about it; the linked article is a bit weak on that point. China hasn't exactly been a leader in nuclear non-proliferation efforts.
That the controllers were manufactured there doesn't seem all that relevant- whomever was responsible could've simply bought them. China certainly could've done it, but I'm not sure that they'd spend the one-shot opportunity on Iran.
Posted by: Hollowpoint at December 15, 2010 12:14 PM (plsiE)
Posted by: Soothsayer for RNC Chair at December 15, 2010 03:11 PM (uFokq)
IIRC, they pumped UF6 through a linear-cascading system (like a stream with a series of pools and waterfalls where the heavier elements settle to the bottom and the lighter elements continue down the stream) to separate the different isotopes.
Does anybody recall a report some months ago that Iran had tested an implosion-type weapon with an inert pit? I was under the impression that you needed plutonium for that kind of device and that uranium was only used in gun-type devices like Little Boy.
Posted by: ol_dirty_/b/tard at December 15, 2010 12:15 PM (IoUF1)
WhatÂ’s clear, says Clarke, is that major resources went into StuxnetÂ’s development. Microsoft estimates that building the virus likely took 10,000 man-days of labor by top-rank software engineers.
This is horseshit.
Given the source code for the program which monitors the Centrifuges... which apparently they got from Finland... it can attack through either the Hardware interface itself, or the Hardware abstraction layer...
Key is that the Worm was the delivery method... the virus is looking for specific hardware... which is NOT hard to program...
Key is you need to know how to target it, which means you need to know how they are running these things... which does point to a State actor...
But I also would NOT discount the Russians either... they do not have an interest in seeing Iran with Nuclear Weapons, when they have their own Islamic problem going on...
Posted by: Romeo13 at December 15, 2010 12:18 PM (AdK6a)
Posted by: Jean at December 15, 2010 12:20 PM (HKVGZ)
Posted by: Hollowpoint at December 15, 2010 12:24 PM (plsiE)
Posted by: Jean at December 15, 2010 12:25 PM (wgkZv)
Posted by: Hollowpoint at December 15, 2010 04:00 PM (plsiE)
PLC's are usually off-the-shelf hardware. The ladder software and parameters are written by machinery builders, plant designers, integrators, etc for use in whatever they're building (I've never written one from scratch but I have modified a few). It's possible that same Siemens PLC is part of a CNC lathe being used in your local machine shop, but with a ladder written to control that particular lathe instead of a centrifuge.
Posted by: ol_dirty_/b/tard at December 15, 2010 12:27 PM (IoUF1)
Posted by: Empirewing Plover at December 15, 2010 12:28 PM (Idoz0)
Hmmmm.... how come this started right after I updated the drivers for the Centrifuge control???
The ones I downloaded from the company website???
Posted by: Achmed, the Dead IT Guy at December 15, 2010 12:32 PM (AdK6a)
Posted by: Jean at December 15, 2010 12:33 PM (wgkZv)
the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA), the United NationÂ’s nuclear watchdog
Yeah, I had to chuckle at that one too.
Posted by: Kelly at December 15, 2010 12:33 PM (FLFli)
Posted by: Jean at December 15, 2010 12:36 PM (c3oPV)
Only a few players have added the "Advanced Nerdary Upgrade" to their geek producing "Science Facility" giving the attached "Covert Ops add-on" the "Disrupt Enemy Production Facility" ability.
The US and Israel are probably the only two countries that both could do it, and cared enough to do it. Unless Stux was "released" during the Bush days, my current guess would be Israel.
Posted by: MikeTheMoose© at December 15, 2010 12:39 PM (0q2P7)
This story is a thing of beauty. I love it.
This will make a great movie when the whole story eventually comes out. Spy movies are usually great (see 3 days of the condor.. great frickin movie). The Stuxnet movie will be awesome because it'll be nonfiction of course. can't wait! I love this story!
Posted by: John Frum at December 15, 2010 12:43 PM (EunZW)
This requires first hand knowledge of the centrifuge, its inverters, PLC programming/function block structure, the programming in the inverters, and the tuning parameters for PID loop control.
The industrial control side of this project required at least three people.
Posted by: Fritz at December 15, 2010 12:44 PM (GwPRU)
I like the notion that the IDF did it. That drives the Iranians the most crazy.
Posted by: AmishDude at December 15, 2010 03:35 PM (BvBKY)
That and the U. S. Navy renaming the Persian Gulf the "Iranian Cloaca".
Posted by: ya2daup at December 15, 2010 12:44 PM (0AClR)
PLC's are usually off-the-shelf hardware. The ladder software and parameters are written by machinery builders, plant designers, integrators, etc for use in whatever they're building (I've never written one from scratch but I have modified a few). It's possible that same Siemens PLC is part of a CNC lathe being used in your local machine shop, but with a ladder written to control that particular lathe instead of a centrifuge.
OK, that makes sense- yet we're not hearing widespread reports of everything using a Siemens PLC flaking out; the worm was pretty widespread. I'd guess that somehow they'd have had to know what kind of code that their particular centrifuges were using. Presumably they were programmed by the manufacturer for the specific application for them to be able to be able to make it work how it did.
Posted by: Hollowpoint at December 15, 2010 12:46 PM (plsiE)
Here is a couple of BooYa! moments.
Trans Siberian Pipeline Explosion
Ufa "Train Disaster"
I still laugh when I read them stories.
Posted by: Rickshaw Jack at December 15, 2010 12:46 PM (8qed4)
Yeah I've seen toy poodles that were more intimidating.
Posted by: MikeTheMoose© at December 15, 2010 12:47 PM (0q2P7)
Posted by: Jean at December 15, 2010 12:52 PM (lnUW/)
Posted by: Jean at December 15, 2010 04:33 PM (wgkZv)
It looks like there are several different versions. Here's the S7-300: http://tinyurl.com/2dfvz93
It has motion control for up to 32 axis, so I guess it would probably be overkill for a CNC lathe. But it is off-the-shelf hardware, so anybody could buy it.
Posted by: ol_dirty_/b/tard at December 15, 2010 12:54 PM (IoUF1)
Posted by: yobobbyb at December 15, 2010 12:55 PM (/iqzs)
That is the strongest evidence there is that we didn't do it. If the CIA had done it they NYT would have had it on their front page about 2 days after the virus was deployed.
Posted by: Vic at December 15, 2010 12:55 PM (e4sSD)
This story is a thing of beauty. I love it.
This will make a great movie when the whole story eventually comes out. Spy movies are usually great (see 3 days of the condor.. great frickin movie). The Stuxnet movie will be awesome because it'll be nonfiction of course. can't wait! I love this story! - Posted by: John Frum at December 15, 2010
Yeah. Awesome. Two hours of pasty guys eating pizza and sucking down Red Bulls in the glow of a computer screen ocassionally making a science fiction pop culture reference. ^_^
What they should do is fictionalize it, have it star Chris Knight and Lazlo Hollyfieldm and at the end the Iranian centerfuges pop popcorn in huge ungodly amount. Or pork rinds.
Posted by: JamesT at December 15, 2010 12:59 PM (NLodP)
Posted by: Vic at December 15, 2010 04:55 PM (e4sSD)
Or the CIA would have colossally fucked it up and ended up taking down a paper mill somewhere in the Midwest.
Posted by: ol_dirty_/b/tard at December 15, 2010 12:59 PM (IoUF1)
Posted by: Tushar at December 15, 2010 01:07 PM (PGSXB)
Posted by: yobobbyb at December 15, 2010 04:55 PM (/iqzs)
They already have - its totally messed up the dress designs for Michelle Obama. That has to be enemy action.
Posted by: Oldcat at December 15, 2010 01:12 PM (z1N6a)
Posted by: Joe R. at December 15, 2010 01:37 PM (/Lnx8)
This would be great ... but I just highly doubt it. No great reason. I just can't see the Russkies sabotaging something small. I can see them doing that to something expensive that the Iranians would have to buy again from Russia, but outside of purely financial interests, I can't see the Russians doing anything to stop the Iranian program.
I can actually see the Russians being the culprit, even though they seemingly have competing interests. Despite their complicity in at least part of the Iranian nuke program, a nuclear Iran would be a huge problem for them. Does anyone think that the Chechens would shrink away from using a nuke if they got their hands on one?
Wouldn't put it past the Russkies to sell Iran all kinds of nuke info & equipment.....and then sabotage the shit out of it later on. Milk 'em of petrodollars.
Posted by: IllTemperedCur at December 15, 2010 01:42 PM (6kyQC)
They already have - its totally messed up the dress designs for Michelle Obama.
What? You've seen Moochelle in a dress that was actually presentable?????
Posted by: IllTemperedCur at December 15, 2010 01:43 PM (6kyQC)
Posted by: CoolCzech at December 15, 2010 01:50 PM (tJjm/)
The true beauty of Stuxnet is that the weapons grade material Iran was expecting to get out of the other side of the centrifuges isn't.
Posted by: I R A Darth Aggie © at December 15, 2010 01:54 PM (1hM1d)
What did they use in lieu of a computer back in 1944?
Ummm, computers? nothing like what we have today, and certainly no computer-assisted manufacturing. No, the computers they used where tasked with doing horrendously complex calculations for things like working out the right explosive lens shapes.
As Vic points out, the actual refinement was done without computer aid. And the gaseous process brought some level of fame to one the most useful inventions of the 20th century: teflon, as it resisted the highly corrosive uranium hexafluoride gas that was otherwise regularly trashing the pipes in the Oak Ridge plant.
Posted by: I R A Darth Aggie © at December 15, 2010 02:05 PM (1hM1d)
Posted by: CoolCzech at December 15, 2010 02:13 PM (tJjm/)
I hate to be that guy but isn't this a pretty dangerous thing that's just out there now for anyone to use? I hope this doesn't come back to bite us in the ass.
Not really. There isn't any source code available, the analysis on Stuxnet has been done via a decompilation process. And as I understand things, it is tied very specifically to a particular (series of?) Siemans industrial controller. If it isn't the right controller, it doesn't try to sabotage it. It merely hangs around and tries to infect USB devices and remote Windows shares in the off chance that the new infection will find an approriate controller.
As for further evidence of its laser-like hone, the survey of the geographical spread of Stuxnet shows it to be mostly in the SW Asia area.
There are reasons why some organizations epoxy or otherwise disable the USB ports on their computers.
Posted by: I R A Darth Aggie © at December 15, 2010 02:13 PM (1hM1d)
Posted by: CoolCzech at December 15, 2010 02:17 PM (tJjm/)
Posted by: beerologist at December 15, 2010 02:24 PM (47crF)
Posted by: beerologist at December 15, 2010 06:24 PM (47crF)
No, that is all the work of the apparatchiks.
Posted by: Vic at December 15, 2010 02:43 PM (e4sSD)
Posted by: Christopher Taylor at December 15, 2010 02:46 PM (61b7k)
And I was going to make such a lame comment too.
Stupid People Like Me (Stupidnet): the most annoying virus on the internets.
Posted by: HiHo at December 15, 2010 02:55 PM (gweCZ)
Posted by: HiHo at December 15, 2010 03:00 PM (gweCZ)
Posted by: CoolCzech at December 15, 2010 03:00 PM (tJjm/)
Posted by: iknowtheleft at December 15, 2010 03:58 PM (G/MYk)
Just for everyone's information... Obama sends Iran his condolences in message over terrorist bombing in Iran.
Posted by: andycanuck at December 15, 2010 03:17 PM (KHKnV)
Posted by: Danny Ocean at December 15, 2010 03:56 PM (85SrI)
Posted by: archie bunker at December 15, 2010 04:06 PM (0YS61)
Posted by: sexypig at December 15, 2010 05:24 PM (8N16d)
Meh. Maybe Microsoft software engineers. Bet I could have written it myself in six months, assuming there was an egghead around to tell me just how much wobble was the right amount.
Posted by: Ace's liver at December 15, 2010 05:47 PM (XIXhw)
Hard to say. I think we got back into that business belatedly after 9/11. Of course, now the moonbats want to prosecute people for doing their jobs, so we may go back to the post-Church commission days of 100% sigint.
I guess we can always farm it out to the Israelis.
Posted by: Ace's liver at December 15, 2010 05:50 PM (XIXhw)
Posted by: Clutch at December 15, 2010 07:00 PM (X67eL)
""The best part was when Mahmoud from Iran called tech support and Jugdish from India asked him whether the nuclear reactor was plugged in.""
Fucking laughing for hours with that one. lol
Posted by: Berserker at December 15, 2010 08:03 PM (gWHrG)
Posted by: sexypig at December 16, 2010 12:19 AM (8N16d)
Posted by: chuck in st paul at December 16, 2010 06:55 AM (EhYdw)
Posted by: soccer cleats at June 26, 2011 09:53 PM (ESwwK)
Posted by: Philadelphia Phillies Jersey at July 09, 2011 09:58 PM (dwhLX)
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What did they use in lieu of a computer back in 1944?
Posted by: Soothsayer for RNC Chair at December 15, 2010 11:11 AM (uFokq)