July 27, 2010
— Maetenloch Well a lot of police and security guards would like you to think so.
Here's a case out of Maryland where a man is facing 16 years in prison for violating Maryland's wiretapping laws. His crime - videotaping a MD State Trooper in plain clothes pulling a gun on him and giving him a ticket.
Back on March 5th Anthony Graber was riding his motorcycle with a videocamera attached to his helmet on I-95 and when he exited the interstate a car suddenly pulled in front of him and a man jumped out with his gun pulled. That man turned out to be an off-duty State Trooper in civilian clothes and in his personal vehicle. He identified himself and gave Graber a ticket (which he clearly deserved since he had reached speeds up to 127mph during his filming). Afterwards Graber posted the video on YouTube.
Ten days later when the officer found out about the video, the state police got an arrest warrant for Graber and raided his house early in the morning seizing all computers and video cameras. He's now facing up to 16 years in prison for taping the encounter. Apparently Maryland is one of the few states that requires approval of both parties being recorded and that's the basis for charging him with wiretapping.
Update: Progressoverpeace notes that it's the audio - not the video - that makes the state's wiretapping law apply.
Here's the video in question
So a couple of points -
1. He was clearly speeding and so deserved the ticket. It would be interesting to see what speed the officer wrote him up at.
2. The officer didn't identify himself until he was right up to the driver. I don't know what the standard police procedures are but if Graber had pulled his own weapon or fled, I would have considered that reasonable behavior under the circumstances. I'm guessing the trooper screwed up which is why he wanted the video removed.
3. It's hard to argue that the recording was surreptitious when the GoPro helmet camera was clearly visible and the officer approached the driver against his will in a public place. So the whole case seems to just be an example of police harassment.
And here's Glenn Reynolds' view on the case and harassment against public photography in general.
Posted by: Maetenloch at
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Posted by: conanthelibertarian at July 27, 2010 04:23 PM (dW0dl)
Posted by: stuiec at July 27, 2010 04:25 PM (7AOgy)
From what I've heard, the key in that case is the audio recording, not the video. There are audio laws of consent in Maryland. The video, by itself, wouldn't be a problem.
At least that's what I heard some say about the case.
Posted by: progressoverpeace at July 27, 2010 04:26 PM (Qp4DT)
Posted by: Bob Etheridge at July 27, 2010 04:27 PM (NmcJ6)
So if I'm in Maryland and I get pulled over, I can demand that the cop turn off his fucking dashcam?
Posted by: innominatus at July 27, 2010 04:27 PM (I3UWr)
Posted by: BeckoningChasm at July 27, 2010 04:28 PM (eNxMU)
I would add, even so, as stuiec says, being on a public road pretty much obviates any expectation of privacy.
I had just been noting that it was the audio, not the video, that Maryland was claiming as problematic.
Posted by: progressoverpeace at July 27, 2010 04:29 PM (Qp4DT)
Posted by: NJConservative at July 27, 2010 04:31 PM (LH6ir)
Our union contract forbids capturing our likenesses on any electronic device. So next time try using a crayon.
Posted by: Mary Land pd at July 27, 2010 04:33 PM (Oxen1)
Posted by: Batman at July 27, 2010 04:34 PM (cCYk0)
Posted by: Big Ed Bookman at July 27, 2010 04:34 PM (Qp4DT)
I had just been noting that it was the audio, not the video, that Maryland was claiming as problematic.
Posted by: progressoverpeace at July 27, 2010 08:29 PM (Qp4DT)
From one of Maet's links above, the ACLU of Maryland explains their position.
WHERE DOES MARYLAND STAND?
Although Maryland is one of the few states whose wiretap law requires the consent of all parties to tape an “oral communication,” (as opposed to one party consent, which is the rule in most states), the law does not mean that any taping without the consent of all the parties is unlawful. The wiretap statute defines “oral communication” as a “private conversation,” which Maryland courts have said means that the taping is unlawful only if the participants have a “reasonable expectation of privacy” in the communication.
In August 2000, the Maryland Attorney General issued a legal opinion
in response to a query from the Montgomery County Police about whether their officers might face liability under Maryland’s wiretap act if vehicle mounted audio and video recorders “accidentally” recorded conversations of persons passing by during a traffic stop. In the course of concluding that they would not face any liability, the Attorney General stated:It is also notable that many encounters between uniformed police officers and citizens could hardly be characterized as “private conversations.” For example, any driver pulled over by a uniformed officer in a traffic stop is acutely aware that his or her statements are being made to a police officer and, indeed, that they may be repeated as evidence in a courtroom. It is difficult to characterize such a conversation as “private.”
Obviously, if citizens stopped by police cannot have a reasonable expectation of privacy in those interactions, the officers themselves cannot either. The Attorney GeneralÂ’s conclusion in this regard is in accord with that of every state supreme court around the country that has considered the issue in an analogous context. Courts in Illinois, New Jersey, Pennsylvania, and Washington have all concluded that citizens do not violate their stateÂ’s similar wiretap provisions when they record police actions, because the officers do not have a reasonable expectation of privacy when performing their duties.
We have looked, and have not been able to find a single court anywhere in the country that has found an expectation of privacy for an officer in such circumstances.
Posted by: stuiec at July 27, 2010 04:36 PM (7AOgy)
Just target the lawyer, not the guy with a camera 
Posted by: Christopher Taylor at July 27, 2010 04:36 PM (PQY7w)
Posted by: Terry at July 27, 2010 04:36 PM (W1mrP)
Posted by: steevy at July 27, 2010 04:37 PM (nsLLb)
"I will always follow the orders of every single douchebag who cuts me off in traffic and emerges from his unmarked 4-door sedan in jeans and an underarmor sweatshirt while waving a semi-auto handgun in my face."
Public Servant, my ass....
Posted by: TXMarko at July 27, 2010 04:38 PM (Ou50R)
outstanding that the People's Republic of maryland is back on the prowl....
You can't have a police state without the police.
Posted by: sven10077 at July 27, 2010 04:39 PM (kq1lG)
Posted by: Arbalest at July 27, 2010 04:39 PM (gma26)
Posted by: steevy at July 27, 2010 04:40 PM (nsLLb)
Posted by: Storm Trooper at July 27, 2010 04:42 PM (2DxKT)
24 Roving producer,
indeed...believe it or not the morons (lower case 'm' morons) in Baltimore actually agreed to allow Fox to use their arrest tapings.....
"awesome stuff"
Posted by: sven10077 at July 27, 2010 04:42 PM (kq1lG)
Posted by: Batman at July 27, 2010 08:34 PM (cCYk0)
ROFLMAO
Posted by: wherestherum at July 27, 2010 04:42 PM (gofDd)
('Shut up!' the police explained.)
Posted by: nickless at July 27, 2010 08:37 PM (MMC8r)
I can understand that Maryland law is intended to protect a private citizen from being entrapped by another citizen who uses a hidden audio recorder to capture embarrassing or incriminating statements without the speaker's permission in a setting in which the speaker reasonably expects that the conversation is private and only between him and the listener. But if Graber can be found to be guilty of "wiretapping" for recording a cop giving him a ticket on a public street, then Maryland politicians will be able to demand wiretapping charges be filed against anyone who takes a Flip video camera to a town hall meeting.
Posted by: stuiec at July 27, 2010 04:43 PM (7AOgy)
The trooper should have definitely identified himself immediately. In Philly, we can't make car stops in unmarked vehicles unless we have a marked unit close by. It's dangerous for everyone involved, especially in crajacking central.
That being said, the trooper issued a ticket. The problem is with the law on the books. It needs to be changed, and some over-aggressive DA needs to get some common sense.
Posted by: Wyatt Earp at July 27, 2010 04:43 PM (zgZzy)
If LEO 'have nothing to hide, why would they object to taping'?
That is exactly the line they use when they want to rip your car and its' contents to shreds on the side of an Interstate...
If LEO is worried about some 'smart lawyer' screwing their case, then maybe they should focus on doing it RIGHT instead of randomly stomping on the Citizens rights in a losing game of 'Whack A Mole'?
Posted by: TXMarko at July 27, 2010 04:43 PM (Ou50R)
Posted by: Batman at July 27, 2010 08:34 PM (cCYk0)
ROFLMAO
Posted by: wherestherum at July 27, 2010 08:42 PM (gofDd)
Oh no! She's laughing at Batman! This must be the work of.. THE JOKER!
Posted by: stuiec at July 27, 2010 04:44 PM (7AOgy)
It's nice that Maryland seems to come out with the right answer in this sort of a case, but it's just common sense that no one out in public (certainly not on a public road) has any expectation of privacy, at all. If others, just out in public, can see and hear you, then you have no privacy and, to anyone but a lawyer, no expectation of privacy.
It just gets all that much worse when it's an interaction between the police and a private individual, in which case it as much removed from a context of "privacy" as one can possibly get. There are cases to be made of the right one has to tape every bit of an official interaction, in order to protect himself, but there is no case that could possibly be made for disallowing a citizen to tape an official encounter with law enforcement. This suit against the biker is so much like the state insisting it has the right to a secret trial (that's not what it is, but the general point of this specific wiretapping charge is the same).
Posted by: progressoverpeace at July 27, 2010 04:44 PM (Qp4DT)
Posted by: Sanmon at July 27, 2010 04:44 PM (eRTzC)
In what world would that guy have a reason to pull his weapon, especially in street clothes and personal car, rather than his badge?
That's ok? Really? Really?!
Posted by: Terry at July 27, 2010 04:45 PM (RNENT)
So, where is the anti-establishment left on this one? Are they backing the little guy against the crushing power of the state? Are they speaking truth to power?
I know, I know, the question answer itself ...
Posted by: Brown Line at July 27, 2010 04:45 PM (8nLcq)
... and what state is that? ... wild guess here, Texas?
Posted by: Harley Davidson at July 27, 2010 04:46 PM (bEbCY)
That being said, the trooper issued a ticket. The problem is with the law on the books. It needs to be changed, and some over-aggressive DA needs to get some common sense.
Posted by: Wyatt Earp at July 27, 2010 08:43 PM (zgZzy)
Glenn Reynolds apparently thinks that there is a 14th Amendment argument to be made to require state wiretapping laws to fall under Federal jurisdiction.
I wonder if the DA felt that by bringing the indictment against Graber, he was helping to immunize the cop against any possible lawsuit?
Posted by: stuiec at July 27, 2010 04:46 PM (7AOgy)
Posted by: hobbes at July 27, 2010 04:46 PM (WiOnI)
Posted by: NJConservative at July 27, 2010 08:37 PM (LH6ir)
It's from Semi-Tough. Let me put it this way, you'd rather have aspersions cast at you.
Posted by: progressoverpeace at July 27, 2010 04:47 PM (Qp4DT)
Isn't this the same thing those MD dickheads tried with Hannah and O'Keefe? F*ck dem in dey ASS! Case needs to be thrown out and the wiretapping law probably ruled unconstitutional as is written if it can be interpreted this cavalierly.
Posted by: Dang Straights at July 27, 2010 04:48 PM (ORV0a)
35 Sanmon,
the cop felt like a hero, and let's be honest the guy on the donor cycle was in need of an attitude adjustment....
Cop and the state got all hot and bothered in their tingly parts when they grasped that young TJ Hooker had at a minimum broken public trust and ethics and may himself have broken regs....
this is retaliation, had the guy not posted Officer Hooker nothing would have come of it because the cop would feel confident in saying if his shop called him on it "his word v mine".....Hooker hates "his word and video v my word alone"
Posted by: sven10077 at July 27, 2010 04:48 PM (kq1lG)
Posted by: progressoverpeace at July 27, 2010 08:44 PM (Qp4DT)
Point of order: not a suit against the biker - rather, multiple criminal indictments that could put him in the state pen for a number of years. Sure sounds vindictive to me.
Posted by: stuiec at July 27, 2010 04:49 PM (7AOgy)
Posted by: The Guys on the Grassy Knoll at July 27, 2010 04:50 PM (MMC8r)
Glenn Reynolds apparently thinks that there is a 14th Amendment argument to be made to require state wiretapping laws to fall under Federal jurisdiction.
I wonder if the DA felt that by bringing the indictment against Graber, he was helping to immunize the cop against any possible lawsuit.
Happens a lot in Philly. Idiot cops tune up someone then try to give us, "He was resisting arrest." They usually shut their holes when we ask them what they were being arrested for. They think that if they tune someone up they need to arrest the person to protect them. Good luck with that, officer!
Posted by: Wyatt Earp at July 27, 2010 04:50 PM (zgZzy)
Jesus...I carry when I'm in my home state and at times in other states where the CCW is reciprocal...and sometimes while I'm riding..
..MD is not one of those states, but fuck..I'm not sure what I would have done if I were carrying and some dude just jumps out of his car with a gun and starts coming at me
Posted by: beedubya at July 27, 2010 04:50 PM (AnTyA)
44 Stu,
yup....donks hate the police state when they are not the police and that is the *only* time they hate it.
Posted by: sven10077 at July 27, 2010 04:50 PM (kq1lG)
47 Bedubya,
you would have either shot him, gotten shot, backed down, or ran him over.....
none of those are good.
Posted by: sven10077 at July 27, 2010 04:51 PM (kq1lG)
Posted by: torabora at July 27, 2010 04:52 PM (smdUn)
Posted by: Jean at July 27, 2010 04:52 PM (CPefM)
Posted by: NJConservative at July 27, 2010 04:53 PM (LH6ir)
Posted by: stuiec at July 27, 2010 08:25 PM (7AOgy)
It isn't, but since language is now flexible and words mean whatever you want them to mean, consequently so does the law.
The D.A. and that plain clothes cop both need to be shown the door.
Posted by: Ace Hammer Blog Detective at July 27, 2010 04:55 PM (oIp16)
Posted by: Muppet Fart at July 27, 2010 04:56 PM (m1mET)
Posted by: sven10077 at July 27, 2010 08:51 PM (kq1lG
...probably either b or c..
I'm not Billy the Kid or Dirty Harry...
..but it's still freaky to contemplate
Posted by: beedubya at July 27, 2010 04:57 PM (AnTyA)
Posted by: Bikermailman at July 27, 2010 04:57 PM (sudhu)
Posted by: Chicom Politburo at July 27, 2010 04:57 PM (smdUn)
My (white) nephew was stopped by a cop in a dicey area of North Philly. The cop asked for identification. He pulled out his wallet and started to get his drivers' license. The cop grabbed the wallet, pulled out all the cash, pocketed it, dropped it on the sidewalk, and walked away.
Posted by: Ombudsman at July 27, 2010 04:59 PM (y4B2y)
..MD is not one of those states, but fuck..I'm not sure what I would have done if I were carrying and some dude just jumps out of his car with a gun and starts coming at me
Posted by: beedubya at July 27, 2010 08:50 PM (AnTyA)
Depending on how it goes down, either pull on the bastard or put the ponies under your ass to use. In this case, I'm pulling on him. The first words out of his mouth should have been that he is the hi po.
Posted by: Bikermailman at July 27, 2010 04:59 PM (sudhu)
Posted by: jmflynny at July 27, 2010 08:57 PM (v+ZxY)
Ok I'll go first..
He don't need no steenkeen bajjus
Posted by: beedubya at July 27, 2010 04:59 PM (AnTyA)
Posted by: Muppet Fart at July 27, 2010 08:56 PM (m1mET)
Yes, I too am staying OUT of Maryland.
Posted by: Zombie Robert E. Lee at July 27, 2010 05:00 PM (smdUn)
Posted by: Ben at July 27, 2010 05:00 PM (DKV43)
61 BD,
heh goes without saying in my case unless I was really focused and already in a bad mood.
Nah I'd have sped off until TJ Hooker either identified himself or a makred car came....of course I wouldn't have been doing 127 on "the donor cycle" anyway so....
Posted by: sven10077 at July 27, 2010 05:00 PM (kq1lG)
Posted by: beerologist at July 27, 2010 05:01 PM (r2UKM)
also unless Officer hooker is clairvoyant all he saw was "82 MPH"....
82 MPH is any day ending in "day" on that stretch of road.
Posted by: sven10077 at July 27, 2010 05:01 PM (kq1lG)
Not just police...if you're a man taking pictures and there's a child (even your own) within 100 yards, you're treated as a pedophile until you prove yourself innocent.
Posted by: HeatherRadish at July 27, 2010 05:01 PM (jV+np)
Posted by: NAACP PD at July 27, 2010 05:02 PM (zgZzy)
Posted by: Harley Davidson at July 27, 2010 08:46 PM (bEbCY)
Umm, 48 states have passed laws allowing citizens to carry certain concealed firearms in public, either without a permit or after obtaining a permit from state or local law enforcement.
Get with the program, foo!
Posted by: TXMarko at July 27, 2010 05:02 PM (Ou50R)
Posted by: sven10077 at July 27, 2010 05:02 PM (kq1lG)
Posted by: Ombudsman
I would love to say I don't believe that, but I've been a detective here for a long time. And we have very low hiring standards.
Posted by: Wyatt Earp at July 27, 2010 05:03 PM (zgZzy)
I open carry, but sometimes conceal carry. I don't ride a motorcycle so could probably just drive away more safely if someone approached me with a gun like that. If couldn't, well, I'm not going to assume someone is a cop while they draw a firearm on me.
The cop screwed up and the state sucks for having such a law and enforcing it in this case.
Posted by: Mark at July 27, 2010 05:03 PM (bHLvU)
70 Heather Radish,
Maryland is "odd"....I let my son play in a rainstorm in his swim diaper and they acted like it was taboo....
they call themselves "the free state"
Posted by: sven10077 at July 27, 2010 05:03 PM (kq1lG)
Posted by: steevy at July 27, 2010 05:04 PM (nsLLb)
Posted by: sven10077 at July 27, 2010 05:04 PM (kq1lG)
Posted by: Mark at July 27, 2010 05:05 PM (bHLvU)
Posted by: B+rry "I'm Part Irish" Ob+owmao at July 27, 2010 05:05 PM (smdUn)
Posted by: sven10077 at July 27, 2010 05:07 PM (kq1lG)
Posted by: robtr at July 27, 2010 05:07 PM (fwSHf)
Wyatt, from what my nephew tells me, this is rampant around the Temple campus. The kids actually trust the Temple security guards more than the Philly police
Posted by: Ombudsman at July 27, 2010 05:07 PM (y4B2y)
Posted by: steevy at July 27, 2010 05:08 PM (nsLLb)
70 In England you can't kiss your children in public.
In America you can't kiss other peoples children in public
Posted by: Ben at July 27, 2010 05:08 PM (DKV43)
81 Barry O'bamwow he of the leprechaun,
I know we are facing a lot of problems, anxiety, pressure, and moral drama....and it all means a lot to me...I swear.....
but not as much as this next drive....
"Fore"
Posted by: Barack T. Ogabe Cpt-USS Hope'n'Change at July 27, 2010 05:09 PM (kq1lG)
Posted by: ChicagoJedi at July 27, 2010 05:09 PM (WZFkG)
83 Rob,
like I said TJ Hooker....he and the Detroit Police Chief would be tight yo....
seriously 127 is a felony in MD.
Posted by: Barack T. Ogabe Cpt-USS Hope'n'Change at July 27, 2010 05:10 PM (kq1lG)
Posted by: Al Capone at July 27, 2010 05:10 PM (/t7Tr)
I open carry, but sometimes conceal carry. I don't ride a motorcycle so could probably just drive away more safely if someone approached me with a gun like that. If couldn't, well, I'm not going to assume someone is a cop while they draw a firearm on me.
The cop screwed up and the state sucks for having such a law and enforcing it in this case.
I agree, that is my biggest issue with this specific vid. The biker was doing illegal shit and deserved to be pulled over, and if he was going 31 above, he deserved to have his bike impounded and license suspended. But the cop didn't identify himself.
The cop is going to get himself killed. Some citizen won't know the guy is a cop and think he is being attacked and will fire back.
Posted by: Ben at July 27, 2010 05:10 PM (DKV43)
Posted by: Emil at July 27, 2010 05:11 PM (lkQbi)
Guns are evil, except when they are used to take down racist teabagging motorcycle speeders.
Posted by: Maryland libtard at July 27, 2010 05:11 PM (Ps41e)
Wyatt, from what my nephew tells me, this is rampant around the Temple campus. The kids actually trust the Temple security guards more than the Philly police
Whew! Not my division. 
Posted by: Wyatt Earp at July 27, 2010 05:12 PM (zgZzy)
The cop is going to get himself killed. Some citizen won't know the guy is a cop and think he is being attacked and will fire back.
Posted by: Ben at July 27, 2010 09:10 PM (DKV43)
Either that or drop the clutch and put the front wheel right in the middle of his chest.
Posted by: robtr at July 27, 2010 05:12 PM (fwSHf)
Posted by: every totalitarian state ever at July 27, 2010 05:13 PM (nsLLb)
Sooooo.
When the Cop Car Camera mounted on the dashboard takes a video of someone in Maryland that means that cop needs to be arrested for violating the state wiretapping laws?
Posted by: memomachine at July 27, 2010 05:13 PM (MwCol)
the funny thing is that one of the things that mad Van Jones famous was his involvement in Cop Watch, which was where inner city people videotaped police all the time. I don't recall the state trying to prosecute them on wiretapping laws then
Posted by: Ben at July 27, 2010 05:13 PM (DKV43)
No badge? Cuts me off? As soon as he turned his side I'd would have capped him. Then again Maryland isn't really known for having the finest police. Just about every other repost I see about cops busting into the wrong house and shooting someone's dog comes out of Maryland.
Posted by: Al Capone at July 27, 2010 05:13 PM (/t7Tr)
I would go even further - I think their phone logs, their Internet surfing logs, all of the things they do while on the public dime should be made public.
Posted by: chemjeff at July 27, 2010 05:14 PM (Ps41e)
99 Robtr,
exactly either TJ Hooker is a good cop who got overly excited and screwed up or he is a moron who has a death wish or watched too much Tombstone.
if a) he'll get himself killed or ran over
if b) he'll kill someone in a bad shoot.
Posted by: sven10077 at July 27, 2010 05:14 PM (kq1lG)
The cop is going to get himself killed. Some citizen won't know the guy is a cop and think he is being attacked and will fire back.
Posted by: Ben at July 27, 2010 09:10 PM (DKV43)
Either that or drop the clutch and put the front wheel right in the middle of his chest.
i was thinking that too robtr. If i were in my truck and someone ran at my car brandishing a gun, and i didn't have a fire arm, i would probably try to speed away, and if he was infront of me...well... so be it.
Posted by: Ben at July 27, 2010 05:14 PM (DKV43)
In Texas the cop would have said "Hooo...weeeeee boy...y'all was haulin ass
...here, lemme give you my gun"
Posted by: beedubya at July 27, 2010 05:16 PM (AnTyA)
The "underprivileged" have more privileges than the "privileged."
Posted by: HeatherRadish at July 27, 2010 05:17 PM (jV+np)
Posted by: Ombudsman at July 27, 2010 09:07 PM (y4B2y)
Your nephew should have seen the Temple campus 20 years ago. Man, that was one nasty, nasty place.
I never had problems with cops there - it used to be good to see a cop around. But, many things have changed.
Posted by: progressoverpeace at July 27, 2010 05:17 PM (Qp4DT)
Posted by: steevy at July 27, 2010 09:04 PM (nsLLb)
Noooo...srsly?
Posted by: Bikermailman at July 27, 2010 05:18 PM (sudhu)
Yes, I too am staying OUT of Maryland.
Posted by: Zombie Robert E. Lee--
You might want to add Pennsylvania to your list.
Posted by: General George G. Meade at July 27, 2010 05:18 PM (+e94j)
Posted by: Maryland libtard at July 27, 2010 09:11 PM (Ps41e)
easy now............ fucking with teabagger bikers might not be such a good thing todo.
Posted by: Racefan at July 27, 2010 05:18 PM (wULjq)
i was thinking that too robtr. If i were in my truck and someone ran at my car brandishing a gun, and i didn't have a fire arm, i would probably try to speed away, and if he was infront of me...well... so be it.
Posted by: Ben at July 27, 2010 09:14 PM (DKV43)
I taught my daughters when the learned to drive that they were driving a very big powerful weapon and if someone cut them off and tried to approach them to run over their ass.
Posted by: robtr at July 27, 2010 05:19 PM (fwSHf)
The off duty obviously had communication with unis, he should have called it in, and at MOST, been backup, not primary.
That was just stupid, and I think it shows exactly how far gone down the road towards a for real police state some of the states in this union have gone.
Posted by: Unclefacts, AoSHQ Pro Debate Squad, And Summoner Of Meteors. at July 27, 2010 05:19 PM (eCAn3)
The cop holsters it again almost immediately, too, so it's not clear to me what changed in the seven seconds between "Get off the motorcycle!" and "Get your hands up", other than that the motorcyclist cut his engine. What was the cop going to do, shoot him for trying to escape?
What's really funny is that when the cop lifts his jacket to holster the gun (or maybe he's just sticking it in his pocket; who needs a holster when you're Officer Badass?), you can just barely see his badge clipped to his belt. Y'know, the badge that until then had been totally concealed by the jacket and that the cop felt no need to hold up in order to identify himself as a police officer who'd just leaped out of his unmarked car waving a gun around, rather than some random psycho.
Posted by: The War Between the Undead States at July 27, 2010 05:19 PM (PzV4U)
Heh. I bet the Grifter in Chief didn't appreciate the video taken of him smoking near the oil spill.
Epic.
Posted by: RushBabe at July 27, 2010 05:20 PM (W8m8i)
Posted by: Hey, a Tom Servo MST3K Riff! at July 27, 2010 09:16 PM (MMC8r)
You always have to watch out for that.
Posted by: Bikermailman at July 27, 2010 05:20 PM (sudhu)
Posted by: Emil at July 27, 2010 05:20 PM (lkQbi)
Seems like the best way to prevent anything overzealous from happening.
Also a good way to CYA with a vorpal rug.
Posted by: Rickshaw Jack at July 27, 2010 05:21 PM (xz7jA)
Posted by: Vmaximus at July 27, 2010 05:21 PM (p2ATj)
I would have taken that fucking retarded NASCAR-loving cop's head and smashed it through through the windshield,then taken a snapshot of the bleeding mess and send it out in a Christmas card...
...then I would have called him a racist
Cuz that's how I roll
Posted by: Spencer Ackerman at July 27, 2010 05:21 PM (AnTyA)
How is this prosecutor not facing a recall election? I can think of few more fundamental freedoms then being able to videotape your own arrest.
Posted by: 18-1 at July 27, 2010 05:22 PM (bgcml)
easy now............ fucking with teabagger bikers might not be such a good thing todo.
Posted by: Racefan at July 27, 2010 09:18 PM (wULjq)
ya think?
Posted by: Unclefacts, AoSHQ Pro Debate Squad, And Summoner Of Meteors. at July 27, 2010 05:22 PM (eCAn3)
Posted by: Alex at July 27, 2010 05:22 PM (K9+WM)
127 Spence,
I can so totally see that happening....would you have used Cayenne pepper and a paper cutter machete, or gone with a field expedient flamethrower using a Massengil and lighter fluid....
we JuiceBox mafia wanna-bes gotsta know
Posted by: sven10077 at July 27, 2010 05:23 PM (kq1lG)
Posted by: The War Between the Undead States at July 27, 2010 09:19 PM (PzV4U)
That's a good point. Besides it being easier on the revenue side, why are undercover police allowed to give speeding tickets?
Posted by: 18-1 at July 27, 2010 05:23 PM (bgcml)
Posted by: ChicagoJedi at July 27, 2010 09:09 PM (WZFkG)
Yep, they threatened those who pulled the sting on the Baltimore ACORN office under this law. I think the charges never materialized or were dismissed.
Posted by: ya2daup at July 27, 2010 05:24 PM (yRrAd)
Posted by: Ollie Stone at July 27, 2010 05:24 PM (zgZzy)
Posted by: Alex at July 27, 2010 09:22 PM (K9+WM)
I would strongly suggest something like a helmet cam for riot cops.
Posted by: 18-1 at July 27, 2010 05:24 PM (bgcml)
130 Alex,
maybe but all you had here was a "badass" implosion....
Evel Knievel was showing what a man he was not bullbaiting a cop as his goal, and TJ Hooker needed to whip his dic...er gun out.
Posted by: sven10077 at July 27, 2010 05:25 PM (kq1lG)
also, if i am not mistaken, the biker is a veteran
Posted by: Ben at July 27, 2010 05:26 PM (DKV43)
Posted by: dagny at July 27, 2010 05:26 PM (FrgKE)
Posted by: chemjeff at July 27, 2010 09:14 PM (Ps41e)
We can still just turn the phones we allocated to the public off, right?
Posted by: Sen Landrieu at July 27, 2010 05:26 PM (bgcml)
Just like in the movies.
Posted by: Rickshaw Jack at July 27, 2010 05:27 PM (xz7jA)
137 Ben,
which shocks me not at all....
probably deployed too....90% of units lose more people to vehicular idiocy on the homefront than to the opfor downrange.
Posted by: sven10077 at July 27, 2010 05:28 PM (kq1lG)
I only have problems with pressing the wiretapping charges against the biker in this situation, which is beyond insane.
Posted by: progressoverpeace at July 27, 2010 05:28 PM (Qp4DT)
Posted by: Quilly Mammoth at July 27, 2010 05:28 PM (/t7Tr)
Posted by: MCPO Airdale at July 27, 2010 05:28 PM (G5qLy)
Posted by: sven10077 at July 27, 2010 05:29 PM (kq1lG)
The problem here was 'Mr Undercover; Too Cool to be Videoed ' pulled his piece an waved it around when there was no damn need for it.
A significant percentage of these Tools are steroid-driven.
Posted by: TXMarko at July 27, 2010 05:29 PM (Frt80)
1) At 127 mph he could have been locked up, not just ticketed. In my state it's only 15 mph over the limit.
While 127 mph is excessive, it isn't unusual for roads to be marked 15 mph, or more, bellow the normal flow of traffic. Or, speed limits to be tweaked to produce tickets, for example, 55 to 35 (with a cop waiting) back to 55.
Posted by: 18-1 at July 27, 2010 05:29 PM (bgcml)
maybe but all you had here was a "badass" implosion....
Hence the reason that I said, "It doesn't excuse asshole cops who abuse their power, like it appears with this one..."
Posted by: Alex at July 27, 2010 05:29 PM (K9+WM)
Posted by: polynikes at July 27, 2010 05:30 PM (7fhzQ)
Wow, you're evil. Correct, but evil.
Posted by: Garbonzo the Garrulous at July 27, 2010 05:30 PM (oL8lS)
Posted by: steevy at July 27, 2010 09:04 PM (nsLLb)
What about other people's children?
Posted by: Roman Polanski at July 27, 2010 05:30 PM (bgcml)
Posted by: Emil at July 27, 2010 05:31 PM (lkQbi)
50 torabora
I rememer that. I live in lonely ole Modoc Co. Drennen? That was a weird thing all the way.
Posted by: A'foot or A'horseback at July 27, 2010 05:31 PM (fz8zm)
sigh
guys, look at the man's belt, right hand side, what is that gold thing?
IT'S A FUCKING BADGE
he announced himself as popo and it looks like a marked vehicle pulls up right away
as far as the gun being drawn, it for the officers safety, he was standing in front of the bike
i've been pulled over on my bike before at gunpoint and yes it sucks but i see no biggie on this video
wyatt? what say you?
Posted by: navycopjoe at July 27, 2010 05:31 PM (gg4j2)
142 PoP,
dunno cop showed a lack of judgement not flashing the badge and announcing himself....
I don't disagree with stopping a vehicular felon plainclothes off-duty....seriously but he dfroped the ball on a few points.
Posted by: sven10077 at July 27, 2010 05:31 PM (kq1lG)
149 Alex,
hey hey I wasn't calling you out just saying yeah nice summary but here is was two testosterone cowboys locking horns.
Posted by: sven10077 at July 27, 2010 05:33 PM (kq1lG)
Posted by: Alex at July 27, 2010 09:22 PM (K9+WM)
Please provide links to any Laws, Codes, or Statutes that support your position that determines that cameras in public are illegal.
That is, within the United States, not Russia or Germany....
Posted by: TXMarko at July 27, 2010 05:33 PM (Frt80)
Posted by: Van Jones at July 27, 2010 05:34 PM (qzgbP)
i believe in almost all states, state troopers have their full leo powers 24/7
if this was me in the day, i would have done the same thing the same way
and yes, i wore civvies when out in town and had my badge on a belt clip
Posted by: navycopjoe at July 27, 2010 05:34 PM (gg4j2)
155 Navy.
eh.....a badge being on the guy is not the same as him showing it....
had this gone to court iof the worse, God forbid, had happened the cop would not have been considered announced.
Posted by: sven10077 at July 27, 2010 05:34 PM (kq1lG)
160 Navy,
indeed....hell in Ohio even Truant officers carry their badge....
of course I am not required to stop and get in the van if a truant officer doesn't show the hardware so....
Posted by: sven10077 at July 27, 2010 05:37 PM (kq1lG)
161 i disagree, did he in a reasonable amount of time announce he was the popo?
yes
he would have good to go
Posted by: navycopjoe at July 27, 2010 05:37 PM (gg4j2)
Not me. He has the drop on me no matter what. I would have 2 rounds in me by the time I cleared my shirt.
Live to fight another day is my motto.
Posted by: Rickshaw Jack at July 27, 2010 05:37 PM (xz7jA)
guys, look at the man's belt, right hand side, what is that gold thing?
IT'S A FUCKING BADGE
For one thing you don't see it until he's putting his gun away and for another he didn't identify himself as being an officer until after he pulled the gun on the guy and told him to get off his bike.
I rode a Harley all through college and got stopped a few times and never had a cop pull a gun on me.
Don't you think hoding that badge in your hand when you get out of the car might be a good idea? Instead of the gun.
Posted by: robtr at July 27, 2010 05:37 PM (fwSHf)
As an aside I almost crashed into pre-allpro Leornard Smith's (buffalo bills) car in my rush in reverse. Good times.
Posted by: polynikes at July 27, 2010 09:30 PM (7fhzQ)
Too many kids think the campus police are just rent-a-cops. In Texas at least, they're certified peace officers, with all the rights and responsibilities involved.
Posted by: Bikermailman at July 27, 2010 05:38 PM (sudhu)
Posted by: sven10077 at July 27, 2010 05:38 PM (kq1lG)
164 apples and oranges
are truant officers have the authority to make a traffic stop?
this guy is state police, he does
Posted by: navycopjoe at July 27, 2010 05:38 PM (gg4j2)
Oh to be on the jury. Which I'd nullify faster than Occifer GungHo's chubby next raised itself to its three point five inch majesty at the prospect of him jamming his pistol in his next victims face.
Posted by: Ten at July 27, 2010 05:39 PM (0XmkJ)
That's certainly true. But no matter what he'd just done in traffic, the motorcyclist had no way of knowing this was a cop and not some random guy who was about to murder him. I would think that any response would have been justifiable as self-defense, but then this is Maryland.
If I were cutting through traffic at 127 mph I'd expect there'd be a long trail of drivers in my rear-view mirror wanting to kill me.
Posted by: The War Between the Undead States at July 27, 2010 05:39 PM (PzV4U)
166 RJ he was within four feet of a running vehicle....
those odds are better than playing Doc Holliday....cars kill most troopers not guns.
Posted by: sven10077 at July 27, 2010 05:39 PM (kq1lG)
dunno cop showed a lack of judgement not flashing the badge and announcing himself....
I don't disagree with stopping a vehicular felon plainclothes off-duty....seriously but he dfroped the ball on a few points.
Posted by: sven10077 at July 27, 2010 09:31 PM (kq1lG)
True, sven. I just don't have that many problems with the cop having drawn his gun. There could easily have been extenuating circumstances that made him feel the situation was that threatening, or called for that action. There are grounds for a reprimand, I would think (probably much more severe), but I'm just not all that bothered by that part.
Posted by: progressoverpeace at July 27, 2010 05:40 PM (Qp4DT)
167 Don't you think hoding that badge in your hand when you get out of the car might be a good idea? Instead of the gun.
actually no,
fact: most cops are killed during traffic stops, whenever people get stopped, cops always walk up to the window with their hand on the gun and the holster retention undone
which leads us back to my question: did he announce himself as popo in a reasonable time? yes
Posted by: navycopjoe at July 27, 2010 05:42 PM (gg4j2)
170 navy,
apples to apricots...
which is to say a truant officer seeing an apparently school age child absent school has the authority to make a stop, detain and call a car to take the child to home of Juvi if parental contact can't be made....
of course they can't just say "get in the van, I am truant officer john wayne gacy...honest injun'"
Posted by: sven10077 at July 27, 2010 05:42 PM (kq1lG)
Dude, the badge was NOT visible until he attempted (several times, geez) to holster his weapon. Again, there was NO NEED for Mr. Testosterone to brandish his weapon with the marked unit already parked behind the perp. All that was necessary was his Badge.
Here is a reminder why we Citizens should not immediately prostrate ourselves and roll over when some masked/undercover bandit comes banging on our doors....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hxxaq-3pfaQ
Posted by: TXMarko at July 27, 2010 05:43 PM (HZjzH)
I don't really mind that cops fuck up. They have a tough job. But this was a fuckup. But the only way to reduce these fuckups as much as possible is to own up to it.
You have to be careful about this crap. Pull a gun at some folks out there and don't ID yourself and you could very well have a tragedy within 5 seconds. It's completely needless escalation if a driver has pulled over. Even some idiot kid.
Cops should try to deescalate when possible. What if the biker had fled? He could have been killed.
And it's up to society to decide, and they can do a better job if they have more access to videos like this. Hiding them is an affront. I wouldn't mind too much if all cars had a camera built in to confirm liabilities and ensure protection from law enforcement abuses. You could simply refuse to give up your video if you don't want to self incriminate (and the person you rear ended would show theirs).
If you're out on the road, your expectation of privacy is zero.
Posted by: Legendary Film Star Rick Moranis at July 27, 2010 05:43 PM (dUOK+)
In that position, I would have sped off as fast as I could.
I would not have drawn on him, I'm just not that fast.
Posted by: Rickshaw Jack at July 27, 2010 05:43 PM (xz7jA)
Posted by: Editor at July 27, 2010 05:43 PM (YX6i/)
A stopped bike's a lethal weapon? The perp assaulted the LEO? The perp could even move the damn thing?
Installing a pair of matching half-inch holes through each of his - or my or grannie's or your - lungs is for the fucking officer's safety, dude. Get real.
Posted by: Ten at July 27, 2010 05:44 PM (0XmkJ)
The authorities in Maryland wanted to use this ridiculous "wiretap" law against Linda Tripp for recording her conversations with Monica Lewinsky.
It seems to me that this law was designed explicitly to protect politicians against stings, either by reporters or law enforcement.
Posted by: AmishDude at July 27, 2010 05:44 PM (PDN1L)
sigh
guys, look at the man's belt, right hand side, what is that gold thing?
IT'S A FUCKING BADGE
He presents himself left side to the perp. Perp can't see the badge.
he announced himself as popo and it looks like a marked vehicle pulls up right away
I can announce myself as the Pope, don't mean shit in this situation. He's off-duty and should have been calling the stop in, and BACKED UP the uni. Not been the plainclothed primary.
as far as the gun being drawn, it for the officers safety, he was standing in front of the bikeThen he needs to get his ass back to tactical school, like yesterday. This LEO did so many things wrong that put himself and the perp in a very bad situation because his adrenaline was pumping. If he pulled the perp over, he should have put the vehicle between himself and the subject. Badge should be shown PROMINENTLY, not under the sweater where it's invisible until the LEO presents his right side to the perp after drawing his weapon. This is exactly the kind of stop that ends up as a training video for LEOs on how NOT to enact a hot stop. That officer could have very well ended up being involved in a weapon discharge that never had to happen.
Posted by: Unclefacts, AoSHQ Pro Debate Squad, And Summoner Of Meteors. at July 27, 2010 05:45 PM (eCAn3)
Posted by: Comrade Arthur at July 27, 2010 05:45 PM (ett+q)
I kinda do. I'd hate to become Swiss cheese because some cop is having a bad day. Then again, I do acknowledge the flip side of this in that if I were a cop I'd sure want to cover all of my bases.
Posted by: Soap MacTavish at July 27, 2010 05:45 PM (554T5)
which leads us back to my question: did he announce himself as popo in a reasonable time? yes
Posted by: navycopjoe at July 27, 2010 09:42 PM (gg4j2)
I disagree, someone telling me they're a cop doesn't make it so. There was plenty of time for the guy on the bike to run over the cop before he even said he was one.
We saw in Oakland sometimes those things go off when you don't want them to. I'm not a big fan of anyone pointing a loaded gun with their finger on the trigger unless they plan on using it.
Posted by: robtr at July 27, 2010 05:46 PM (fwSHf)
182 navy,
yup that's me....
or not...my cousin was an OSHP Trooper....I have no problem with the cop's actions although they were borderline...I have more problem with TJ Hooker running to the DA when his lack of judgement got posted....
please correct me on why the LE community running to the DA to stifle a guy with a specious legal argument to protect their pride is "good law"
Posted by: sven10077 at July 27, 2010 05:46 PM (kq1lG)
Posted by: ChicagoJedi at July 27, 2010 05:47 PM (WZFkG)
Posted by: Truman North at July 27, 2010 09:45 PM (HLGCA)
So the next time their is a close election, and the loser decides to push it, we can get all the way to a civil war instead of using the process that has worked for the last 200 years? AWESOME!
Posted by: 18-1 at July 27, 2010 05:47 PM (bgcml)
Posted by: sven10077 at July 27, 2010 05:47 PM (kq1lG)
Posted by: progressoverpeace at July 27, 2010 05:47 PM (Qp4DT)
The Police acted stupidly. Now hand me a beer.
Posted by: marine43 at July 27, 2010 05:48 PM (1yjYu)
Posted by: Truman North at July 27, 2010 05:49 PM (HLGCA)
Super! Supeeeeerr!
Posted by: alexthedude at July 27, 2010 09:45 PM (rqsPh)
Reminds me of the show where the cop had the ginormous pistol Barrel was maybe 18" long or something, spoofing the Dirty Harry movies. Horrible show, I think it lasted a half season.
Posted by: Bikermailman at July 27, 2010 05:49 PM (sudhu)
Whoa, that voice. It's why God invented the mute button.
Posted by: Soap MacTavish at July 27, 2010 05:50 PM (554T5)
Posted by: alexthedude at July 27, 2010 05:51 PM (rqsPh)
She slaps me and walks away in a huff.
Posted by: Hannity at July 27, 2010 05:51 PM (YX6i/)
Posted by: Truman North at July 27, 2010 05:51 PM (HLGCA)
Posted by: Wyatt Earp at July 27, 2010 09:48 PM (zgZzy)
Nope. Well covered. But a panel with Pam Geller AND Andy McCarthy is almost as good. Almost.
Posted by: progressoverpeace at July 27, 2010 05:51 PM (Qp4DT)
Posted by: Truman North at July 27, 2010 09:49 PM (HLGCA)
Actually, I bet if this law ever comes into effect the results will not be a peaceful transition of power. These fools are creating a situation where two candidates can legally claim to have won simultaneously.
Posted by: 18-1 at July 27, 2010 05:52 PM (bgcml)
The day the music died.
Posted by: Don McLean at July 27, 2010 05:52 PM (0XmkJ)
sigh
guys, look at the man's belt, right hand side, what is that gold thing?
IT'S A FUCKING BADGE
Uhmmm, which should have been on the other side so he can show it with his non-firing hand. You know LIKE HE'S FUCKING SUPPOSED TOO?
He's a douche-bag. A hot dog. And he's going to get his simple ass shot if he doesn't change.
Posted by: Quilly Mammoth at July 27, 2010 05:52 PM (/t7Tr)
Posted by: alexthedude at July 27, 2010 05:52 PM (rqsPh)
Posted by: Editor at July 27, 2010 05:53 PM (YX6i/)
Posted by: Quilly Mammoth at July 27, 2010 05:53 PM (/t7Tr)
i believe in almost all states, state troopers have their full leo powers 24/7 if this was me in the day, i would have done the same thing the same way and yes, i wore civvies when out in town and had my badge on a belt clip Posted by: navycopjoe at July 27, 2010 09:34 PM (gg4j2)
And I will hope and pray that you don't get your shit blown away unnecessarily by some of your Thin Blue Line brothers like what happened to that poor West Point Vet at the Las Vegas Costco....
Posted by: TXMarko at July 27, 2010 05:54 PM (JJiwm)
I got no problem with the stop at all...,, it only took a few seconds for the cop to ID himself
At exactly 3:00 minutes in, the guy on the bike looks over his shoulder...most probably because he heard the siren of the unit you see at the very end of the video..
..I have to give the off-duty the benefit of the doubt in that he could very well have determined he was witnessing a chase
The only problem I have is with the subsequent arrest on the taping charges
...but this part of the ACLU release sounds a bit thin:
On March 15, the trooper became aware of the video, and obtained an arrest warrant charging Graber with a violation of the state wiretap law Would he have the authority???...can you cop types help out here?
Posted by: beedubya at July 27, 2010 05:55 PM (AnTyA)
Posted by: Moi at July 27, 2010 05:57 PM (bjYAr)
Posted by: Det. Sledge Hammer After Blowing Away Unarmed Motorist at Traffic Stop at July 27, 2010 05:58 PM (PzV4U)
Posted by: steevy at July 27, 2010 05:58 PM (nsLLb)
On March 15, the trooper became aware of the video, and obtained an arrest warrant charging Graber with a violation of the state wiretap law
Would he have the authority???...can you cop types help out here?
Posted by: beedubya at July 27, 2010 09:55 PM (AnTyA)
It's just part of his attitude with the entire traffic stop. He's god and you are not. The cop could have pulled next to the bike showed him his badge and said I'm a cop I want to talk to you. He could have had his gun in his hand at the time if he was worried about something.
Posted by: robtr at July 27, 2010 05:59 PM (fwSHf)
... just saying...
Oh, it was not a lynching,
nevermind.
Posted by: Barrack Hessein Obama at July 27, 2010 05:59 PM (Oe01r)
Posted by: Ohio Dan at July 27, 2010 05:59 PM (rurh0)
Posted by: Truman North at July 27, 2010 05:59 PM (HLGCA)
Meaning you didn't read the comment directly above yours.
Or apparently, your Constitution back in Jr high.
Posted by: Ten at July 27, 2010 05:59 PM (0XmkJ)
Posted by: Truman North at July 27, 2010 09:45 PM (HLGCA)
I wrote in another thread that the Massachusetts law seems to pretty clearly violate the 14th amendment, where all voters are guaranteed the right to vote for the Presidential electors. If the state is looking to something other than their own voters to determine the slate of electors sent to Washington, then the Massachusetts voters have had their right to vote for those electors taken away from them.
14th, part 2: But when the right to vote at any
election for the choice of electors for President and Vice-President of the
United States, Representatives in Congress, the Executive and Judicial
officers of a State, or the members of the Legislature thereof, is denied to
any of the male inhabitants of such State, being twenty-one years of age, and
citizens of the United States, or in any way abridged, except for
participation in rebellion, or other crime, the basis of representation
therein shall be reduced in the proportion which the number of such male
citizens shall bear to the whole number of male citizens twenty-one years of
age in such State.
Posted by: progressoverpeace at July 27, 2010 05:59 PM (Qp4DT)
Posted by: rawmuse at July 27, 2010 06:01 PM (B2NbD)
Because you were jaywalking? Ten over? Washing the blood off your flip flops?
Posted by: Ten at July 27, 2010 06:01 PM (0XmkJ)
Posted by: Truman North at July 27, 2010 06:03 PM (HLGCA)
Posted by: Artruen at July 27, 2010 06:03 PM (L+dBi)
222 Ohio Dan,
I know a deputy coroner who carries a Tacti-Cool Walther P-99 and badge at all times....because you never know when a corpse may throw down.
Posted by: sven10077 at July 27, 2010 06:04 PM (kq1lG)
Posted by: steevy at July 27, 2010 06:05 PM (nsLLb)
Posted by: alexthedude at July 27, 2010 09:52 PM (rqsPh)
Guess I'm not remembering it that well. I was maybe a freshman in HS at the time. (1983?) I had other things on my mind. 
Posted by: Bikermailman at July 27, 2010 06:06 PM (sudhu)
Posted by: steevy at July 27, 2010 10:05 PM (nsLLb)
As opposed to the libs, who think the cops are always wrong.
Posted by: Bikermailman at July 27, 2010 06:07 PM (sudhu)
Mass Legislature votes to reimburse King George for all that "spilled" tea.
Film at 11:00
Jesus, sorry. The cop was wrong, and could have gotten himself killed. That being said, the helmet cam shouldn't have had the audio.
Posted by: Truman North at July 27, 2010 06:08 PM (HLGCA)
I've been a cop since 1999. One thing that has been hammered into me the entire time is that off-duty, out-of-uniform you should always let the uniformed on-duty officers approach first when they are available. Off-duty, you are back-up. There were uniformed on-duty officers on the scene when this guy pulled up and immediately drew on the motorcyclist.
Another thing, if you are off-duty and out of uniform, you show badge and announce yourself as an officer first. This fella got out of his car and drew immediately on a motorcyclist and told him to get off the bike THREE times before announcing himself as State Police. The badge gets shown incidentally when he lifts his jacket to holster.
I don't normally like to armchair quarterback fellow officers but this one seems to have let anger get the better of him. He was being douchebag, and when the video got released he double-downed on his douchebaggery by going to the DA and getting this nonsense with the wiretapping started.
Posted by: hobbes at July 27, 2010 06:08 PM (WiOnI)
Ah, the Constitution... another one of those documents with what they'd hoped would have been a functional penumbra fundamentally concerning itself with both individual liberty and constraining the power of the State.
Hoped, that is. The ignorant bastards.
Posted by: Ten at July 27, 2010 06:10 PM (0XmkJ)
Sure, they should. But they're human and they don't always get every single thing exactly 100% right. And unlike you on your job, when you drop the pickle or sign the wrong line or type the wrong word in the field... there's nobody taking pictures with a lawyer looking for a way to screw you over. Its a tad frustrating, to say the least.
They're just handling the frustrating the wrong way, I think. Wrong targets.
Posted by: Christopher Taylor at July 27, 2010 06:11 PM (PQY7w)
Also, when daughter was learning to drive one of the things she was taught is "If somebody tries to make you stop, and you do not know that they're a cop, you drive."
"What if they get in front of me?"
"You drive. If they don't move, the cops can deal with the body after you call them."
This was a really lousy piece of work by that cop; at the very least his badge should have been right up front where it could be seen BEFORE he jumped out with a drawn gun.
Posted by: Firehand at July 27, 2010 06:12 PM (7nhG/)
Posted by: miguelhorning at July 27, 2010 06:14 PM (7xU6D)
Or apparently, your Constitution back in Jr high.
No I didn't see that post..and had I, ...meh...still wouldn't have made a fucking difference
...and what part of the Constitution got violated here?
Posted by: beedubya at July 27, 2010 06:15 PM (AnTyA)
Especially involving hot flying lead, right?
And unlike you on your job, when you drop the pickle or sign the wrong line or type the wrong word in the field... there's nobody taking pictures with a lawyer looking for a way to screw you over. Its a tad frustrating, to say the least.
Is that a ten shot text field or an eighteen shot text field?
Anyway, normals deal with frustration by notching down whatever it is that so frustrates them.
Such as their employment.
Posted by: Ten at July 27, 2010 06:16 PM (0XmkJ)
Posted by: Unclefacts, AoSHQ Pro Debate Squad, And Summoner Of Meteors. at July 27, 2010 06:19 PM (eCAn3)
Everyone who subscribes to the 'few bad apples' theory of Rogue Cops should check the website below daily:
http://www.injusticeeverywhere.com/
And for the Cop Loving Citizen Haters out there who may question my moral authoritah, I have never been arrested, detained, charged, or handcuffed.
Ever.
Posted by: TXMarko at July 27, 2010 06:20 PM (JJiwm)
Given that the Constitution doesn't enumerate paper clip budgets or juice box brands for Congress, that would be the wrong question. The correct question is what part of this encounter did it authorize.
And before you cite an open-book due process or unlimited state's rights for LE, think. Because these days apparently it's due process and state's rights to send SWAT to break down mom's front door and shoot her dead in her bed because there's a pot dealer in the next block.
Posted by: Ten at July 27, 2010 06:21 PM (0XmkJ)
I am going up to da UP camping eh.
I need to find a book to take. I already picked up Ghost Wars that someone suggested earlier. But I am looking for a specific book.
It was written by an old pilot and it is about the beginning of the airline industry, and what it was like. Someone suggested it on this blog, but I cannot for the life of me remember what it was called. Anyone?
Posted by: Rickshaw Jack at July 27, 2010 06:22 PM (xz7jA)
...and what part of the Constitution got violated here?
Posted by: beedubya at July 27, 2010 10:15 PM (AnTyA)
"The Commerce Clause. The biker was speeding in order to cross the state line to buy orange juice. The cop interefered with interstate commerce." -- lunatic lefty .. and the MFM
Posted by: progressoverpeace at July 27, 2010 06:24 PM (Qp4DT)
Posted by: Ten at July 27, 2010 10:21 PM (0XmkJ
Dude...seriously wtf are you are you babbling about??
..
Posted by: beedubya at July 27, 2010 06:26 PM (AnTyA)
Folks what got "no problem" with other folks drawing down on them in traffic, I'm guessing, beedubya. You?
Posted by: Ten at July 27, 2010 06:29 PM (0XmkJ)
127 miles per hour; allmost twice the legal speed limit just about everywhere on a hiway system. Felony. Public Endangerment. With No Reguard To Public Safety. A Lethal Weapon.
The cop may not have radared the punk on the bike, but you have to take some of this shit seriously. Dudes rob banks and create mayhem on a daily basis. I doubt the cop was thinking that the punk on the bike "was just trying to make a cool video"
Posted by: A'foot or A'horseback at July 27, 2010 06:47 PM (fz8zm)
My job does not involve the projection of Deadly Force! And if I DO make a mistake at my job, I expect to suffer consequences in proportion to the error I made.
I respect honest LEO's and the sometimes shitty job they are asked to do (and I personally know quite a few), but Police Work is not even listed in the Top 10 of the most Dangerous Jobs in America!
No one forced them to take this line of work, and an honest LEO can go home at night with at least the satisfaction of knowing he or she made a positive difference in Society that very day.
If someone finds that Police work is not a good fit for them, they should find a new line of work. And if their Brothers in Blue suspect someone is not cut out for this type of work, they should say something.
Therein lies the problem.
Posted by: TXMarko at July 27, 2010 06:50 PM (JJiwm)
Posted by: steevy at July 27, 2010 06:56 PM (nsLLb)
Posted by: Quilly Mammoth at July 27, 2010 07:01 PM (/dC8M)
Posted by: Nighthawk at July 27, 2010 07:06 PM (NuaOd)
Posted by: Daybrother at July 27, 2010 07:09 PM (FIc0M)
First, let me say that the police have a very tough job.
Second, let me that in spite of that, almost every policeman I've ever had to deal with (and I've never been arrested or detained) has been an ARROGANT SHITBIRD.
Third, these ARROGANT SHITBIRDS seem to have this "thing" that whenever one of their number dies, they all take the day off and fly at taxpayer expense to the funeral to "mourn" and then party like it's 1999..
Fourth, do American soldiers and sailers take the day off and fly at taxpayer expense to the funeral to "mourn" and then party like it's 1999?
If filming the police making an arrest is illegal, then what recourse would Rodney King have had?
Posted by: effinayright at July 27, 2010 07:09 PM (GNTj/)
Dang!
Sentence should read:
Fourth, do American soldiers and sailors take the day off and fly at taxpayer expense to the funeral to "mourn" and then party like it's 1999, when one of their number dies in combat?
Posted by: effinayright at July 27, 2010 07:11 PM (GNTj/)
i'm back
i'm going to agree with hobbes all the way, his point about anger getting the best of him is dead on
and no,i don't agree with the law on wiretapping in this case
and ten, go make me a sammich
Posted by: navycopjoe at July 27, 2010 07:15 PM (gg4j2)
Posted by: A'foot or A'horseback at July 27, 2010 07:28 PM (fz8zm)
Posted by: g at July 27, 2010 07:58 PM (QcdUG)
Posted by: er at July 27, 2010 08:01 PM (FIc0M)
I got one of those in Texas too. He did you a favor, of course, when it comes to the seriousness of the infraction. It's not like all Texas cops are perfect, but I've had much better experiences with them. I've always been really nice to them and they've always been really nice to me aside from telling me to drive correctly. I have gotten a few warnings and a few other breaks.
But even though I think the gun drawing cop was making several errors, I'm not upset by that. People make mistakes. I just think it's sensible to allow those mistakes to be considered my society. Prosecuting someone for filming a cop doing their job is telling society they don't get access to the information they deserve and need. That's wrong. You should never have an expectation of privacy when doing government work or when out on the public streets. I'd give the cop some additional training and make sure this didn't happen again... it's not that big a deal.
Posted by: Legendary Film Star Rick Moranis at July 27, 2010 08:18 PM (dUOK+)
Posted by: Legendary Film Star Rick Moranis at July 27, 2010 08:19 PM (dUOK+)
Even when the interaction is peaceful and no one goes to jail it is always aversarial. The main thing to remember is Follow directions, BE POLITE,SAY AS LITTLE AS POSSIBLE
Posted by: Taint Painter at July 27, 2010 08:19 PM (E7i+5)
Posted by: Taint Painter at July 28, 2010 12:19 AM (E7i+5)"
Some people don't realize that it's pretty damn easy to be polite and avoid saying anything you don't need to say. Indeed, cops are there to represent the state and build cases. I'm glad someone does that job, but being polite and friendly with a cop should also include saying as little as you can.
Posted by: Legendary Film Star Rick Moranis at July 27, 2010 08:21 PM (dUOK+)
Posted by: ChicagoJedi at July 27, 2010 08:24 PM (WZFkG)
Posted by: Wilkey at July 27, 2010 08:32 PM (tBrQI)
Here's a vid telling you why you should say NOTHING to the police, and why you don't have to say a word (beyond producing ID and registration for a traffice stop):
http://tinyurl.com/6h5syo
I had a 600-pound dyke of a policewoman pull me over in NH a while back, for an unposted illegal lane change that I defy anyone driving that road to figure out.
I had seen this video, so I resisted the temptation to ask her if roaches and other critters crawled out from between her legs when she took a piss.
Posted by: effinayright at July 27, 2010 08:35 PM (GNTj/)
If she won't show us her spectacular tits, I'll settle for her genital cleft!
Posted by: effinayright at July 27, 2010 08:39 PM (GNTj/)
The solution to this issue is to declare all such assholes legitimate moving targets for shotgun and rifle practice, and the state pays a $150 bounty for each one bagged.
Posted by: Have Blue at July 27, 2010 08:59 PM (mV+es)
Uh.... another point ...
The cop was OFF DUTY. When off duty he is the same as a standard citizen. He does NOT have the authroity of his badge.
When he pulled his gun, while OFF DUTY, when there was no threat to anyone of serious bodily injury, HE broke the law.
Thats why they are going after the motorcycle rider... to supress the evidence of the COP being in the wrong.
Posted by: Romeo13 at July 27, 2010 09:05 PM (H+oXM)
Most state police officers retain their police powers when off duty.
Posted by: Have Blue at July 27, 2010 09:10 PM (mV+es)
Posted by: Have Blue at July 27, 2010 09:14 PM (mV+es)
1. The motorcyclist was joy-riding, but very irresponsible, which is - I regret to say - par for the course for bikers around these parts. Bikers want us to share the road, but around here they ride down the lines separating lanes (at freeway speeds) and weave in and out of traffic without signaling. Fuck them.
2. The police officer not only pulled a gun unnecessarily and didn't identify himself promptly, he failed to show a badge so as far as I'm concerned he never identified himself. If had been me on the bike, I'd have fled. The cop should be disciplined.
Posted by: Y-not at July 27, 2010 09:14 PM (O627A)
Posted by: societyis2blame at July 27, 2010 09:27 PM (klH73)
And of course an off duty cop who sees something like this ought to try to stop it.
This bike rider was obviously a really selfish person. Easily could have killed a lot of people.
That's a completely separate issue from the video taping issue.
Posted by: Legendary Film Star Rick Moranis at July 27, 2010 09:58 PM (dUOK+)
This bike rider was obviously a really selfish person. Easily could have killed a lot of people.<i>
WTF is this pathetic meme?
Posted by: Ten at July 28, 2010 02:55 AM (0XmkJ)
WTF is this pathetic meme?
Posted by: Ten at July 28, 2010 06:55 AM (0XmkJ)"
UM, I don't know what you're talking about. Maybe you're really stupid, but if you go 127 mph, you could kill a lot of people very easily. Someone could be surprised by you and veer into an accident, you could easily loose control, the police could get into an accident trying to pursue you...
Did you really not understand that this motorcyclist was a jackass? Are you a troll? I can't keep track of who the trolls are on here. A lot of people die from dumb shit like this, in case you didn't know. If you're too poor to use a racetrack like an adult, you're too poor to properly maintain your tires anyway. Poors don't get to race at 130mph... sorrry.
Posted by: Legendary Film Star Rick Moranis at July 28, 2010 03:02 AM (dUOK+)
Posted by: torabora at July 28, 2010 04:04 AM (smdUn)
</i>Prove it, intarwebs jeenus/troll-huntah.
But regardless - because yours is an obviously fallacious argument - show us how, when the average state logs probably two thousand traffic deaths a year, empty statist promises of safety empower morons like this clown to go round brandishing loaded firearms in public on traffic stops.
I mean, outside of totalitarian states.
See, LEO are employed servants and not justice-dispensin' heroes. You have (or had) rights beyond theirs. You are responsible for your safety in an inherently unsafe world. Don't like it? Stay home.
Posted by: Ten at July 28, 2010 04:43 AM (0XmkJ)
Let me see....
Makes aggressive move with vehicle.
Makes aggressive move from vehicle.
Makes aggressive statements when exiting his car and approaching.
Plain clothes.
Plain car.
Fails to identify himself IMMEDIATELY as a police officer.
PULLS HIS WEAPON immediately failing the rule of escalation by ONE level... just jumps to a very high level.
If this officer still has a job, Maryland has failed the citizens.
CC
Posted by: CapedConservative at July 28, 2010 05:17 AM (GKZBr)
After an hour or so, I was approached by a burly young man who identified himself as a federal marshal, and said the U.S. Attorney wanted to see me.
I went inside and was told I had been photographing grand jurors. I explained who I was and that our paper had no interest in grand jurors. My film was seized and the newspaper sued in federal court on grounds of prior restraint.
We won across the board and the judge went so far as to tear the U.S. Attorney a new one in open court, ordering him to make sure nothing like that EVER happened in his district again. The film (which contained nothing of interest to us) was returned with an apology.
I believe this case would be a direct precedent in favor of the motorcyclist.
Posted by: Mike at July 28, 2010 05:58 AM (IPXUz)
Police fear video cameras because they cannot be impugned.
Normally cops are able to get away with murder, sometimes quite literally. They can conspire to lie and make up pretty much any story they like as long as it is even marginally consistent with the known facts of the case. When push comes to shove it is the word of several police officers against someone accused of a crime. Who are the judge, the jury and the public, going to believe?
But when those cops are videotaped, their ability to spin-doctor what happened in order to bury the accused and/or cover up their own wrongdoing is extremely limited.
They especially fear being taped without their knowledge and having that evidence show up AFTER they've perjured themselves or filed false reports.
It is for this very reason that the right to videotape police conduct, especially surreptitiously, should be protected by law. It is at least as fundamental a right as free speech or the right to keep and bear arms. When agents of the state are empowered to detain and incarcerate private citizens for violations of the law, those citizens have the right to an impartial observer to ensure that those agents are conducting themselves in accordance with the law and with respect for the truth.
There was another case not too long ago where a teenage hoodlum used an MP3 device to record his own interrogation at the hands of the police. One of the cops he dealt with later lied on the stand about what took place during that interrogation, only to be destroyed by the truth.
Now the teen in question was a criminal. He was guilty of the charge, but because the police lied those charges were thrown out. Furthermore the police who perjured themselves destroyed their careers and opened themselves up to criminal charges of their own.
A good cop who does his job honestly and tells the truth has nothing to fear from the truth. Only dirty cops who look to shortcut the due process of the accused, or who are criminals in their own right, fear having their official actions recorded.
Posted by: Lee Reynolds at July 28, 2010 06:08 AM (/gY4D)
Posted by: Dale at July 28, 2010 06:10 AM (RVMAo)
As someone who commutes to work on a bike and usually has a handgun on my person I find this stop disturbing.. Luckily I don't drive like this asshat...
Posted by: thegarbone at July 28, 2010 06:11 AM (F2Lc3)
If she won't show us her spectacular tits, I'll settle for her genital cleft!
Posted by: effinayright at July 28, 2010 12:39 AM (GNTj/)
Sure, but I wanna see your 'package' first.
Posted by: Pam's Camel Toe at July 28, 2010 07:11 AM (ZGdhe)
Posted by: Ten's Wet Dream at July 28, 2010 07:25 AM (ZGdhe)
Posted by: Matt Sheffield at July 28, 2010 07:31 AM (WZDOt)
This is the lesson that law enforcement learned from the Rodney King episode: Attack those who would hold you accountable for complying with the law you are sworn to uphold.
Posted by: Lee Reynolds at July 28, 2010 10:08 AM (/gY4D)
I was mindin' my own bidness, on parole from a robbery conviction and speedin' down a highway going only 'bout 115MPH. Me and my two homies did a lot of 40oz drinkin' that day. Racist mutherfuckin' cops stopped me for DWB.
Can't we jus' all get along?
Posted by: Rodney King at July 28, 2010 07:43 AM (ZGdhe)
" Legendary Film Star Rick Moranis ... Some speed laws are another example of our nanny state. 127mph on a residential street is reckless...on I-5 central California, not bad at all.
Posted by: torabora"
127 is too fast. You probably don't understand quite how difficult it is to avoid an obstacle at that speed. I wouldn't mind higher speed limits, but the real problem is that most people are going under 80. The difference in speed is massive, and that's what causes the worst accidents. Add the fact that it's obviously a serious offense that could leads cops to pursue at high speeds, and it's completely obvious that this is extremely dangerous.
50 mph on residential streets is reckless. 127 mph probably isn't even possible in most cases. That's a terrible comparison.
Like I said, if you're too poor to afford to take your vehicle to a race track, you probably can't maintain tires or other components well enough to go that speed. I reject this idea that prohibiting 127 mph on public roads is nannying... I don't care if the cyclist killed himself. But if someone blows by you at 127 mph and you're going 65, that's an extremely dangerous situation for innocent people. This is completely within the realm of what the government should prohibit.
I realize there's always a nut or two who thinks the public roads shouldn't be regulated to much extent, but most people want them to and we paid for them (you guys probably don't pay any taxes... people like ten are always 12 years old, of course).
Posted by: Legendary Film Star Rick Moranis at July 28, 2010 08:50 AM (dUOK+)
Right. Along with 85% of this thread. Irony much, do you?
Cop cars in Rick's world have replaced the To Protect and Serve door motto with To Make Shit Fucking Safe, Civilian.
Posted by: Ten at July 28, 2010 10:46 AM (0XmkJ)
That aside, shouting "I'm a cop" after pulling a gun on someone doesn't cut it in my book, as a potential juror. If the badge was plainly obvious throughout the encounter, I wouldn't have an issue...however, you only get a peek of it as he's putting the gun away. With jackassery afoot like the incident I mentioned above; I'm still not even sure I'd trust just a badge if a uniform didn't show up within a few minutes.
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