1 I don't see it happening.  

2
Stupak 11 request billions in earmarks.

http://tinyurl.com/ykr6dh7

3 Fire 'z missiles!

4

1 I don't see it happening.  

Maybe not voluntarily, but as DrewM keeps hammering, this cannot keep up.  The iron laws of economics are going to punish us for our reckless debt-racking. 

5
It has to happen.  We cannot sustain our entitlement binge on "taxing the rich".
There are not enough rich.
We are moving toward Euro-style socialism, so, all taxes must go up;
Just like in Europe.

6 This is why they will keep pushing cap and trade .

7 Fucking better happen.

8 Krauthammer gave up on Sunday so this doesn't surprise me.

9 Unfortunately, as I sit here, I can imagine any number of Republicans stupid enough to vote for this.
I only wish that they would make themselves known now so that we can find suitable conservative/Libertarian candidates to replace them with prior to November.

10 The VAT and the Rat...

11 Before I'm run out of the movement...I get that pro-growth policies are good and that we have to constrain our spending but that doesn't mean we can never roll back the budget. I oppose government spending not just on financial grounds but also on the grounds of liberty. The more the government spends, the more it becomes entwined in areas of our lives it simply has no place being. I donÂ’t want to balance the budget at current levels; I want to balance it at a lower level as a percentage of the economy.

Here's how I see it - can those of us who are willing to accept the ups and downs of freedom marshal the numbers to out vote those who are perfectly happy to let Big Daddy Government take care of them?  I am not optimistic on that point.

To throw down the girl card, I am really really fucking sick and tired of being told it's "feminist" to support bigger government.  Funny.  I thought being a feminist meant that I believed that I was responsible for and was capable of caring for myself.  From my perspective, it's the Left who are raging paternalists, not the Right. 

I can take care of myself.  Sure, I would *like* someone else to do it since I am a fundamentally lazy person.   But I sure as hell don't expect anyone else to do so.  And, while I'm ranting, if I'm not responsible for my failures then I get no credit for my successes.  To quote the renowned philosophy, Dashiell Parr "When everyone's special, no one is."

GET OFF MY LAWN!

12
Leftists are spending our money before they have it in their corrupt little fingers - and so therefore we have to raise taxes.

13 We already pay a VAT.  It's called the Corporate Income Tax handed down to consumers via higher prices.

When you do your taxes examine all of your revenue and all of your costs.  You will see that you are likely already paying effectively European tax rates.

48 cents on every dollar I earn in income disappears into the government treasuries.

I'm restructuring my revenue to lower this.  It's legal.  You should do it too.

14

http://tinyurl.com/yb5swth

15 On my Census form I put "yeti" for race.

16

#5  Just like in Europe.

But then there won't be anybody to sustain the Euro-socialist model when we're down.

17 Preach it Alex.

18 People are used to sales taxes

But they won't see the VAT, which sucks because it's an exponential tax on anything complicated.  I used to work in a tractor factory (one of the UAW shops taking a charge on Obamacare next quarter, heh).  They didn't forge the bolts or draw the wires--all that came in from suppliers.  The steel company has to collect a VAT from the bolt company, who has to collect a VAT from a fan assembly company, who has to collect a VAT from the tractor company.  Customers don't see a 5% tax on the tractor, they see a 25%  hike in the tractor price.  Plus state and local sales tax.

19 1) Sen. Cornyn serves as a shining example of why the Legislative Branch will never roll this back.

2) The latest ruling on McCain-Feingold serves as a shining example of why the Judicial Branch won't either.

Galt's Gulch, here we come.

20

#11  To throw down the girl card, I am really really fucking sick and tired of being told it's "feminist" to support bigger government. 

Ah!  Gender traitor! 

/You're right, though. 

21

A friend of mine clued me in to a gov't job opening in my area, and I'm going to apply -- mostly because the pay is better (a LOT better) and I hate the people I currently work with. But more and more, I'm getting to the point where I'm planning to work long enough to pay off my debt and save some money, and then just kind of ... hunker. I won't necessarily move to a cabin in the woods, but I will be arranging my life so that I can pack up and move, in one car-load, on a day's (or less) notice.

On a related note, anybody wanna buy some furniture?

22 I want someone at least as extreme as Obama running on the GOP ticket ... but from a free market perspective.

That's what it's going to take to roll this stuff back -- someone willing to take a chainsaw to this bloated monstrosity of a government.

Cut it all away, starting with eliminating the Dept of Education and allowing the states to assume their proper role in governing.

Long term, we have to break the bureaucracy and scatter it to the four winds. This maggot filled underbelly of the government beast is where all the dirty work gets done. It's where the Marxists, Socialists, opportunists, crooks, and lackeys anonymously go about their nasty business under cover of darkness.

It's the machine that propels the Left forward while simultaneously spreading decay that rots away our institutions, traditions, and culture.

No half measures. If we're going to save this country, we have to napalm the left. We're at an inflection point here.We need men and women of principle, courage and commitment.

23

Exactly, the size of government will be reduced, one way or another.  It is as inevitable and the tides or the dawn.  ObamaCnut can't stop this, and the American people have not been degraded sufficiently to assure European levels of political apathy at teh loss of freedom. 

A collapse into regional autonomous collectives will certainly shrink the size of government dramatically.

24 Get used to Continental levels of employment --~11%-- being the norm.

25

...as DrewM keeps hammering, this cannot keep up.  The iron laws of economics are going to punish us for our reckless debt-racking. 

On the other hand, those same iron laws of economics mean that once value is taxed, we'll have less of it.  And because taxes are being raised while the tax rate is waaaaay on the plus side of the Laffer Curve, we'll also be getting less tax revenue.

26 Another chance to thank voters in conservative districts and states (I'm lookin' at you Arkansas, ND, SD, VA, and NC) for sending Democrats to Washington.  Muchas gracias, you idiots.

27
Democrats and their surrogates in the media are out there screaming right and left that we must raise taxes (Tax rates) to increase tax revenue.
Leftist logic:  We must punish production, take production for granted, then wonder why it kills production and sends jobs overseas. 
Tax revenues are down on the fear of increased taxation - just wait until ObamaCare kicks in.  Tax revenues are going to plummet.

28 To throw down the girl card, I am really really fucking sick and tired of being told it's "feminist" to support bigger government.  Funny.  I thought being a feminist meant that I believed that I was responsible for and was capable of caring for myself.  From my perspective, it's the Left who are raging paternalists, not the Right.

Venus signed her name on government's check.  Feminist studies on the campus are poor, although probably better if Venus rejects the government's subsidy.  If you divorce Venus from the Government, you will achieve your Feminist ideal.  Male trustees stand in the way.

29 If we are going to have european style healthcare and other social services we have to start paying european style taxes people.

30 Meanwhile, the CBO comes out today and says things are worse than they originally thought.

And Fox just reported that Israeli soldiers have been attacked, and several killed, by Hamas. 

The American people, and Israel, thank you Barry, you ridiculous asshat. 

31 Health care + VAT = Eurosocialism forever.

The only way to roll back the beast is by starving it of taxes. Even now, the taxes like corporation and investment taxes are already well hidden. What would be more effective than even a federalism amendment to counter spending increases would be for everybody to have to pay all their taxes, including the hidden ones, they pay now in one lump sum on one day. Preferably the day before and election.

The false premise of the social spenders is that tax money is like a natural resource. It's just there like you can dig it out of the ground. Hiding taxes is necessary to the monster state. Tax transparency is necessary to individual freedom.

As Reagan said, taxes should hurt. Damn straight.

STOP VAT NOW.

32

Obama's reelection slogan: "It didn't work the first time, so we need to do it again, harder!"

33 I'm picking up a very heavy "buy a shit load of ammo" vibe from this post.

34 Sounds good to me!

35 Although the Republicans are already counting November's votes, they would do well to realize that support for Republicans is single ply thin.  This current surge in their popularity is not pro-Republican, it is anti-Democrat.  The Republicans betrayed the Tea Partiers (before they knew that they were Tea Partiers) by their out of control spending during the Bush years.  They haven't forgotten that.  Mitch McConnell's statement the other day could easily be interpreted as an admission that Republican votes against health care over the last year were not based upon any principle other than that an R should be the top turd on the shit pile, an issue I have zero interest in. If the Republicans betray us again, they are finally and forever finished.

36 If we are going to have european style healthcare and other social services we have to start paying european style taxes people.

Whose military are we going to leech off of while this is happening?

37 Shit I better buy that new porsche today ha?

38 Check out the debt clock, we are at 88%Debt to GDP ratio and climbing. Most economists agree that once you hit 90% there is no turning back. The maintenance on the interest will eat up all of our GDP eventually. In reality with our unfunded liabilities of SS and medicare along with the dept in Fanny and Freddie we are already well over 90%. Basically any tax cut or spending freeze/cut will only delay the inevitable. We are a dead country walking, most peps just don't know it.

39 The GOP could win it all by cutting Federal spending. There is precisely zero chance they'll do it.

40 Dammit, Megyn.  Get that useless tool Alan Colmes off my TV. 

41

Obama's reelection slogan: "It didn't work the first time, so we need to do it again, harder!"

Posted by: Joanna at March 26, 2010 01:14 PM (7+WuG)

Too wordy.  How about "Bend further over?"

42 O/T:  "2,000 House staffers make six figures"
What burns me up about this is that they don't deserve to make that money.  And where is that 'public service" component?  Funny, most of wall street gets a tiny salary and the rest is commission.  commission doesn't come easily, you have to work your ass off to get it, to make a decent living.  And, sometimes you are lucky and in a position to make that million but it is a once in a lifetime thing.  Yet these "public servants" who live the life of reilly are making two hundred grand....on our dime.   disgusting.

43

Oddly enough, "Starving the Beast" didn't work because of Art Laffer and his Curve. Lowered tax burdens meant an expanding economy, and rising revenues, because the smaller slice of the giant pie was larger than the huge slice of the small pie.

But will "Feeding the Beast" work? Only if the public gives up on the American Dream, and accepts an Era of Limits or a Steady State. Terms from the Carter era revived.

This explains:

--"Multicultural" (MultiCommunist) history, designed to make Americans ashamed rather than proud of their country.

--Ecofiendishness, designed to make Americans feel guilty about wanting a better life for themselves.

--The attempts by the Left to exacerbate racial and ethnic differences rather that minimize them.

--Teh Gheyness, designed to undermine the notion of family, both because the nanny-state wants to become the parent and also to reduce thinking with children and grandchildren and great-grandchildren in mind.

44
OT: File this under "I should have invented this"

45 To throw down the girl card, I am really really fucking sick and tired of being told it's "feminist" to support bigger government.  Funny.  I thought being a feminist meant that I believed that I was responsible for and was capable of caring for myself.  From my perspective, it's the Left who are raging paternalists, not the Right.

Uhm.  Isn't feminism a creation of the Left?  And didn't the rise of the nanny state coincide with womens' suffrage?  I'm not saying you all vote with your uterii, but obviously a majority of you do.

46 I think the Krautman is wrong on this one. The jugeared jackass may try it and he may even get some action in the House if he does it now. But if he waits until after the election the House will be in Republican hands and no chance.

In any case, it will not make it by the Senate. Not even the Dems are crazy enough for this right now.

47 Let's just dispense with all these silly tax ideas.  The Federal Government will just take over everything, the entire private sector. We all become Federal Employees, and the Goverment figures out our pay.  What the hell, we are now under Federal medical care.  No more social security, the Feds will figure out our retirement.  What could be wrong with this idea?  What could go wrong?

48 Wish Lindsey Shamnesty would hurry up and empty out Gitmo.  I'm no longer even kidding about how appealing the idea of moving there is.

49 The only way, I think, to really start reigning in spending is to set the amount the government will spend, and then force all the special interest groups to fight each other for it.

The problem we face is that almost everyone wants to cut spending in general, but it very hard to get 51% to agree to any significant cuts.

So, let's essentially decide the issue on the general plain. We expect tax receipts to be X. We want to allocate Y to debt reduction. Therefore federal spending will be Z=X-Y. Congress decides this number before budgeting ANYTHING. I think this makes it very hard for the MSM and the Dems to turn the issue into sob stories. We can sell it as intelligent budgeting of the sort that normal people have to do.

Then the Unions, the environnuts, the HUD crooks, etc, can fight EACH OTHER over Z as the specifics are worked out.

50 Does anybody really believe that Obama is working in good faith? That he's just misguided/untested/silly? That he's trying to make things "better?"

Why?

51 And, it's more than two hundred grand....they get their "cadillac health care" and their uber pensions and they enjoy the hottest real estate market in the country and the standard of living in DC is not high.

Funny it used to be that business men and women were the ones making the money, now it is the teachers and the government workers and their pals the union guys.   My friend the doctor said that when he is done, the nurse in the hospital setting is making more than him.  He's considering moving to another country  (i was shocked to hear that, but, do you blame him?.

52 38 If we are going to have european style healthcare and other social services we have to start paying european style taxes people.

Whose military are we going to leech off of while this is happening?


Posted by: HeatherRadish

The Chinese can keep us safe. They need to look after their investment.
Oh, and I can certainly use the six weeks of annual vacation.

53 Just remember of the most of the really onerous costs do not start kicking in until after 2012, so they do not really have to pass a VAT till after that election

54

That's a lot of money being drained from the productive, entrepreneurial economy and shoveled directly into the hands of the government. History has also shown us that a tax raised for one purpose won't go to just that use, it will be used as an excuse to raise spending overall, creating greater deficits and debt, thus leading to higher taxes and on and on and on.

True dat, we're still paying the "Johnstown Flood Tax".  Last i checked that thing ended decades upon decades ago.

55

#11  To throw down the girl card, I am really really fucking sick and tired of being told it's "feminist" to support bigger government. 

Drop the "femi" and add "commu" and essentially that's what that movement has been all about since the 1980s at least.

56

How do you make a VAT tax "progressive"?  Libs need to make sure the more you make, the more you pay.  You could exclude groceries, gas, etc, but then you're losing a lot of tax revenue from the middle class.

How do you exclude the "poor" from this tax (which the Dims will insist on).  Have the poor keep their receipts and file for tax refunds?  A lot of them can't even fill out their own tax returns now.

 

57 And Fox just reported that Israeli soldiers have been attacked, and several killed, by Hamas. 

The American people, and Israel, thank you Barry, you ridiculous asshat. 

Posted by: Jane D'oh at March 26, 2010 01:14 PM (UOM4

Funny how the Dems and the media (BIRM) are going eleventy over incitement to violence here, but they're doing the same thing over there.

58

i wonder if the democrats are going to go full kamikazee on us and use reconciliation on every bill untill november.

everyone is saying they will do immigration next because they the votes, but i cant imagine they would do something that would bankrupt the country before the next election as immigration would do.

59  After 2004 and 2006, you seriously expect the republicans to roll back government spending?

 Whatever yer smokin', I want some, ya Bogart!!!

60
In Europe - shitty health care is "FREE!" because they tax the hell out of everything.

You need some toothpaste?  8 bucks a tube.  Gas?  9 dollars a gallon.

And on and on... and that's on top of all the other income based taxes you pay.
Life becomes a tax.

61 I think I'll be drinking early today.

62 Mallamutt,

I don't see the will to do 1), the courage to do 2 and everyone fiddling trying to figure out how to blame the other party if when 3 happens.

FIFY

63 From a commenter at The Belmont Club, I feel like I am in the Seinfeld episode where Kramer decides to keep driving the demo car while the gas light flashes “E” to see how far he can go.

http://tiny.cc/hnaht

We are the guy riding along as Obama and the Dems drive our nation into oblivion.

64

VAT = horrible, awful, terrible idea...

National Sales Tax that replaces the Income Tax = great idea.

we have to stop taxing production and start taxing consumption, it's the only way out of this mess without causing total economic collapse.

taxing consumption WILL shrink the economy, shrink it back to a sane and sustainable level, our economy is bloated with over-consumption, the whole idea of a "consumption-based" economy is madness doomed to eventual failure, growth requires production, when you tax production you get less of it.

when the US was the dominate industrial power in the world it seemed like a good idea to tax production, we had so much production it didn't seem like it would do any harm. but the tables have turned other countries have caught up and are beginning to surpass our industrail strength. A shift in economic theory is needed but our leaders are stuck in the past, still stuck in the mindset that our industrail might will always reign supreme... they are fools.

 

 

65

Not even the Dems are crazy enough for this right now.

After the health care debacle, that's not something I have any faith in at all. 

66 http://tiny.cc/fzv6s

67
3rd.  World.  Shithole.

68 48 cents on every dollar I earn in income disappears into the government treasuries.

I'm restructuring my revenue to lower this.  It's legal.  You should do it too.

Posted by: wtfci at March 26, 2010 01:10 PM (+zo63)

 

 

I have been saying the very same thing to anyone who will listen for the past 8-10 years.  Overall we are already being taxed at an effective rate of close to or over 50%.   The problem is, it is spread out all over the place and in some places it is miniscule, but you are still being taxed.  It is much easier to hide that way.

69 Warden's right. Fight back with more passion than the hopey-changy's bring to the table. That will be the only way. Then nuke it from orbit to make sure it's dead.

70 Our european and canadian friends are quite upset about the health care bill.  They have had the audacity to say to me "where are we going to go for our health care" and they are against any tax on clothing and goods.  then they won't be able to got to NY and fill up their newly purchased empty suitcases filled with stuff that is expensively taxed there.   they are angry at BO, they think he is accommodating their government, making no place on earth a tax haven.

71 How do you make a VAT tax "progressive"?  Libs need to make sure the more you make, the more you pay.  You could exclude groceries, gas, etc, but then you're losing a lot of tax revenue from the middle class.

Monthly rebate checks.

72
All you need to know about Democrats:
They spend your money before they have it, their very lives revolve around their obsession with finding new ways to tax you, and
...they waste most of it in the process, lining their own pockets.

 

73 consumption is not the basis of wealth, production is the basis of wealth.

74

Ah, grasshopper you are probably too young to have seen the voters on Election Day, 1980.

Never mind that, there was Election Day, The Great Upchuck of 1994. I believe the highest turnout for an off year, non-Presidential just Congressional election. A lot of Commiecrat poisons were vomited out of the body politic.

Unfortunately, some Commiecrat intellectual junk food has made its way down in 2006 and 2008. It may have poisoned the body politic again, or it may just have become impacted Demunist fecal matter in the body politic's intestines.

Let November 2010 be both a high colonic and an emetic.

75 Whn will Obama begin addressing the nation wearing a beret and fatigues?

76 The Chinese can keep us safe. They need to look after their investment.
Oh, and I can certainly use the six weeks of annual vacation.

The Chinese people aren't our bitches.  Their government is our bitch.  We own China.  It's not the other way around.

The United States government is angling right now to bolster its revenue, but what it has that China doesn't have is a middle class to fleece.  China has rich and poor and very little in between.  China is building ghost cities with ghost trains and ghost roads.  It thinks that a Chinese middle class will eventually move there.

The rich Chinese are already marching lock step with their government.  They, uh, kind of have to with that Communism thing and all that.  The poor workers are due for a price correction.  It's going to be very ugly.

Our objective should be to coax Beijing and Shanghai to allow the Yuan to float on its own.  When that happens the bond vigilantes can create the havoc necessary in China to force them to stop killing their own people slowly and start building a middle class that is peaceful and prosperous.

What was that recent news about the "one child per household" policy shift?  Keep an eye on that.

77 During the presidential campaign, candidate Obama was absolutely adamant about taxes. "If you make less than $250,000 a year, you will not see any of your taxes increase one single dime," Obama said at a September 2008 rally. "In fact, I offer three times the tax relief for middle-class families as Senator McCain does, because in an economy like this, the last thing we should do is raise taxes on the middle class."

78
The democrats will never remove a tax.  Once they have you on the hook for a tax, they will only layer on more.

The VAT is the extra they are looking for.

79

Joe Donelly.. D-congressmand from Indiana who is running for Evan Bayhs senate seat.... the minute he voted yes for healthcare.. Bayh transferred a million bucks to his campaign.  Payoff.

 

Oh and what does FIFY mean?

80 Once in a while, on a pretty day, I put the top down on my car and make the 45 minute drive over to the Hilton Head area.  South Carolina has no tax on groceries.  I keep a collapsible cooler in the trunk at stock up. 

81

Cue idiot lefty troll who will say:  Hey, you fascists want to cut the deficit, right?  Without one iota of acknowledgement that taxes and deficits do the same thing:  Starve the private sector--where actual wealth is created.

Apparently the previous century never happened or something.

82 Never mind that, there was Election Day, The Great Upchuck of 1994.

What'd we get out of that, by the way?  The budget didn't get any smaller.  After 8-10 years, the Republicans were spending like Democrats.  And what'd it get us?  Bambi and Co.

To think that the Republicans are going to "do anything" is to ignore history.

83 consumption is a symptom of wealth, no the creator of it

84 Timbo Fixed It For You

85

 The Gods of the Copybook Headings

 

Rudyard Kipling

 

 

AS I PASS through my incarnations in every age and race,
I make my proper prostrations to the Gods of the Market Place.
Peering through reverent fingers I watch them flourish and fall,
And the Gods of the Copybook Headings, I notice, outlast them all.

We were living in trees when they met us. They showed us each in turn
That Water would certainly wet us, as Fire would certainly burn:
But we found them lacking in Uplift, Vision and Breadth of Mind,
So we left them to teach the Gorillas while we followed the March of Mankind.

We moved as the Spirit listed. They never altered their pace,
Being neither cloud nor wind-borne like the Gods of the Market Place,
But they always caught up with our progress, and presently word would come
That a tribe had been wiped off its icefield, or the lights had gone out in Rome.

With the Hopes that our World is built on they were utterly out of touch,
They denied that the Moon was Stilton; they denied she was even Dutch;
They denied that Wishes were Horses; they denied that a Pig had Wings;
So we worshipped the Gods of the Market Who promised these beautiful things.

When the Cambrian measures were forming, They promised perpetual peace.
They swore, if we gave them our weapons, that the wars of the tribes would cease.
But when we disarmed They sold us and delivered us bound to our foe,
And the Gods of the Copybook Headings said: "Stick to the Devil you know."

On the first Feminian Sandstones we were promised the Fuller Life
(Which started by loving our neighbour and ended by loving his wife)
Till our women had no more children and the men lost reason and faith,
And the Gods of the Copybook Headings said: "The Wages of Sin is Death."
In the Carboniferous Epoch we were promised abundance for all,
By robbing selected Peter to pay for collective Paul;
But, though we had plenty of money, there was nothing our money could buy,
And the Gods of the Copybook Headings said: "If you don't work you die."

Then the Gods of the Market tumbled, and their smooth-tongued wizards withdrew
And the hearts of the meanest were humbled and began to believe it was true
That All is not Gold that Glitters, and Two and Two make Four
And the Gods of the Copybook Headings limped up to explain it once more.

As it will be in the future, it was at the birth of Man
There are only four things certain since Social Progress began.
That the Dog returns to his Vomit and the Sow returns to her Mire,
And the burnt Fool's bandaged finger goes wabbling back to the Fire;

And that after this is accomplished, and the brave new world begins
When all men are paid for existing and no man must pay for his sins,
As surely as Water will wet us, as surely as Fire will burn,
The Gods of the Copybook Headings with terror and slaughter return!

86 87  at=and

need more caffeine  (or maybe I should just go ahead and hit the booze)

87 Is it still too early to talk about secession?

88

Oh and what does FIFY mean?

Posted by: Timbo at March 26, 2010 01:33 PM (7GgDy)

Fixed it for you.

89 Solution: Fine tune government payrolls with a huge fucking machete.

90

Oh and what does FIFY mean?

 

Fixed it for you.

91
(or maybe I should just go ahead and hit the booze)

Jeez it's been a shitty news day so far, hasn't it?   And the pub is sooo close.

92 Gah!  I am too slow typing!

93

Oooooohhhh yeah!  Show us the M O N A Y!!!

http://tinyurl.com/ykr6dh7

Instapundit

94 I'm cutting out early and hitting the bar.  At least there will be sports on tv to watch.

95 Is it still too early to talk about secession?

Posted by: Rebar at March 26, 2010 01:36 PM (Or4Gk)

I'm thinking the South would beat the North like red-headed stepchildren now.  But it'd be more like Jesusland vs. the United States of Canada.  Which would be even more one-sided.

96 I keep harping on this because a VAT is another tax on production, it makes production more expensive, it's the wrong way to go, and it's stunning to me how many on my own side don't see this.

97

Overall we are already being taxed at an effective rate of close to or over 50%.   The problem is, it is spread out all over the place and in some places it is miniscule, but you are still being taxed.  It is much easier to hide that way.

Agreed.  People are unable to accurately measure the amount of tax they pay here.  You would have to know, for every product or service you spend money on, how much of the price is made up of defrayed corporate taxes, energy taxes, shipping taxes, freight taxes, payroll taxes, regulatory fees, regulatory fines, etc.  It would be very interesting to me to try and trace a product's life from beginning to consumer purchase and figure out how much of that final price tag is made up of just taxes of various sorts.  I don't think it can be done, but it'd be interesting to try.

98 Whoops  - sorry Lemon Kitten.

99 I received a half gal. of SKYY Vodka the other day as a present, today would be a good day to hook it up to a IV!

100 The feeling I have right now is exactly the same one I remember having about four chemo treatments into an 18 treatment process. When I started I was afraid I was going to die and after 4 months I was terrified that I wouldn't.

101 I'm thinking the South would beat the North like red-headed stepchildren now


Ya Ya Ya... I'll see you in Gettysburg!

102 Posted by: Hussein the Plumber at March 26, 2010 01:38 PM (RkRxq)

That's dumb.  They already traded their votes for an Executive Order.

103 I keep harping on this because a VAT is another tax on production, it makes production more expensive, it's the wrong way to go, and it's stunning to me how many on my own side don't see this.

I'm not sure there are many who don't agree with you on this side though. 

104 Ah!  Gender traitor!

I have actually been called that by people who mean it.  My response remains the same, no, I won't show you my tits to prove otherwise.

Ah, grasshopper you are probably too young to have seen the voters on Election Day, 1980.

Oh would that were so.  I wasn't old enough to vote but I remember how excited my parents and basically everyone we knew were on election night.

How do you exclude the "poor" from this tax (which the Dims will insist on).  Have the poor keep their receipts and file for tax refunds?  A lot of them can't even fill out their own tax returns now.

IIRC from my Canadian friends, they get a quarterly check with some kind of refund or rebate money that's an estimate on VAT for food and whatnot.  I could, you know, text the BFF and ask but that is effort and effort is bad.

105 Ya Ya Ya... I'll see you in Gettysburg!

Posted by: Hobo at March 26, 2010 01:40 PM (V8B//)

Living in the past.  Hey, remember when Detroit was a nice place to live with lots of good jobs?

106 Look, lawyers go into the law cause thee isn't any math.  So most of the government is lawyers and poly sci majors which is basically basket weaving.  So, instead of seeking the help of the financial sector, they vilify them, make them the bad guys.   The government workers played this one well, they took away all the restrictions, like giving WS crack and then WS and the quants ran with it.  Like removing the gate by the pool, you sink or swim....when you sneak in.   WS has to fight back, big time for capitalism to survive.  But they aren't.  

107 Man, I don't know about you guys, but I sure see a lot of people every day who want someone, anyone, to take care of them. A scary bunch of them don't seem to mind if that someone is the government. I don't know what the tipping point is in regard to the percentage of those people who are willing to let the government take over every aspect of their lives is, but I fear it may very well already have occurred. Which means fiscal conservatives have to push back that much harder. Which also means the November elections are that much more important. No RINO conservatives need apply.

108 European future?  Western or Eastern?

109 Our european and canadian friends are quite upset about the health care bill.  They have had the audacity to say to me "where are we going to go for our health care" and they are against any tax on clothing and goods.  then they won't be able to got to NY and fill up their newly purchased empty suitcases filled with stuff that is expensively taxed there.   they are angry at BO, they think he is accommodating their government, making no place on earth a tax haven.

Well, there's our silver lining.

And crap-and-tax is a form of VAT, no?  Anything that adds value--say, pulling potatoes out of the ground and driving them to a grocery store, as opposed to waiting for people to come get them--requires energy.

110

"I keep harping on this because a VAT is another tax on production, it makes production more expensive, it's the wrong way to go, and it's stunning to me how many on my own side don't see this.

I'm not sure there are many who don't agree with you on this side though."

 

maybe I'm over-reacting, it wouldn't be the first time, but i'm catching a whiff of helplessness from some and an outright stench of capitulation from a few like Krauthammer. 

111

"Solution: Fine tune government payrolls with a huge fucking machete."

Now thats' CHANGE, that I can HOPE for.

112

I'm thinking the South would beat the North like red-headed stepchildren now. 

Posted by: FUBAR at March 26, 2010 01:38 PM (1fanL)

If the red states left the union, I'd doubt very much the blue states would have the stones to try and bring them back through force.

Especially since they'd get the shit kicked out of them, as any honest military analysis would tell them.

113

Hey, remember when Detroit was a nice place to live with lots of good jobs?

Hey, remember when the U.S. was a nice place to live with lots of good jobs?

114 Sigh.  I feel much better since I turned off Fox.  Megyn Kelly having that imbecile Alan Colmes on having a hissy fit "Tea Baggers!!!11eleventy!!1" was the final straw.

115 102 I keep harping on this because a VAT is another tax on production, it makes production more expensive, it's the wrong way to go, and it's stunning to me how many on my own side don't see this.

Posted by: shoey at March 26, 2010 01:38 PM (Ed9Xn)

So we need a tax on non-production.  Tax the lawyers.

116

What'd we get out of that, by the way? 

--Two Real Supreme Court Judges

--A Congress that didn't go wobbly on Iraq

--Hillary Care stopped (but since the GOP toads didn't follow through with any market reforms, we got Obamunistcare)

--Lower tax rates, FIT down to 35% on top earners and Capital Gains rates cut nearly in half.

The budget didn't get any smaller. 

See Laffer Curve. If you are looking for absolute shrinkage, you will never get it unless the population declines. If you are looking for relative shrinkage, you had that during the Uncle Ron years, and during the pre-ecofiend Newt days.

After 8-10 years, the Republicans were spending like Democrats.  And what'd it get us?  Bambi and Co.

No disagreement there. Combine that with the Hispandering Greedheads and "comprehensive" immigration romantic fools, and it's no wonder that by 2006 the wheels fell off.

117 No half measures. If we're going to save this country, we have to napalm the left. We're at an inflection point here.We need men and women of principle, courage and commitment. posted by Warden

Absolutely.  The incoming new American Revolution.  My question, who will our founding "fathers" be?

118

European future?  Western or Eastern?

You went geographical--I'm thinking temporal.

1917

1618

or the whole 13th century Black Death milieau?

119 Whoops  - sorry Lemon Kitten.

Wha about?  Should I sharpen my sour claws?

120 Colmes is my signal to take off fox.  I rarely watch it anymore.  CNBC is more palatable since you know where they are coming from, they make no bones about it.  Fox is playing both ends against the middle, guess when the prince bought a larger stake he got to dictate what happens, like mr. slim....with the NYT's.

121 Sigh. I feel much better since I turned off Fox. Megyn Kelly having that imbecile Alan Colmes on having a hissy fit "Tea Baggers!!!11eleventy!!1" was the final straw. Posted by: Jane D'oh at March 26, 2010 01:46 PM (UOM4 I know me to. I'm watching "Hitler's Generals" on the Military History channel. about Paulis. I wonder how this Stalingrad thing is gonna turn out for him? /

122

Too many people know think that the role of the govt is to take care of them.  I doubt we'll ever have anything approaching limited govt ever again.

123 maybe I'm over-reacting, it wouldn't be the first time, but i'm catching a whiff of helplessness from some and an outright stench of capitulation from a few like Krauthammer.

Krauthammer rolled over and gave up as soon as Obamacare passed and unfortunately so have some morons.

124 Another chance to thank voters in conservative districts and states (I'm lookin' at you Arkansas, ND, SD, VA, and NC) for sending Democrats to Washington.  Muchas gracias, you idiots.

Posted by: Gary at March 26, 2010 01:13 PM (nfrWk)

Don't forget us

125

If the red states left the union, I'd doubt very much the blue states would have the stones to try and bring them back through force.

Especially since they'd get the shit kicked out of them, as any honest military analysis would tell them.

This is true... Remember Lincoln was a republican.

126 I am Ok if we trade VAT for income tax, just not both. I suspect that they are in love with this unearned income tax in the health care bill and will seek to expand it.

127

I wonder how this Stalingrad thing is gonna turn out for him?

He eats his dogs.

So, if you are into that sort of thing...

128

Don't forget us

Posted by: Montana


Max Baucus.  Thanks for nothin'.

129 I wonder how this Stalingrad thing is gonna turn out for him?

Posted by: nevergiveup at March 26, 2010 01:48 PM (0GFWk)

Him personally?  Not too terrible.

130 Lets not forget about the new Public Health Service Reserve Force that is in the deathcare bill.  It will respond on short notice to "routine public health and emergency response missions," even involuntarily.

This will be Obama's Healthstapo.

"The purpose of the Ready Reserve Corps is to fulfill the need to have additional Commissioned Corps personnel available on short notice (similar to the uniformed service's reserve program) to assist regular Commissioned Corps personnel to meet both routine public health and emergency response missions."

131

maybe I'm over-reacting, it wouldn't be the first time, but i'm catching a whiff of helplessness from some and an outright stench of capitulation from a few like Krauthammer. 

The Krautman is bummed out. But who the heck among us isn't?

132 Ya Ya Ya... I'll see you in Gettysburg!

Posted by: Hobo at March 26, 2010 01:40 PM (V8B//)

 

Been there, done that.  But I bet I win this time around.

133 Krauthammer....ironic name right?   has become the male version of Peggy Noonan.   All these people don't really care about the people or the ideology they hold, they care about losing  their power....

134
So we need a tax on non-production.  Tax the lawyers.

And everyone that works in the entertainment 'industry'.  I say at 90%.

135 An alternative exists for the Republicans should this occur next year. Borrowing from Robert Nozick (Anarchy, State and Utopia philosopher and great libertarian philosopher of the 20th century), I'd suggest Republicans expose the left for their deceit and provide a welfare-state opt-in tax structure.

Citizens that wish to support the progressive's socialist state, including all of its welfare spending and redistribution, can check one box on their income tax filing and subject themselves to a 60% taxrate with no deductions. Money from these collections will be used for the funding of welfare state programs.

Alternately, citizens may select the 18% option (akin to flat tax model) and only have money appropriated to core Federal government functions: defense, Federal law enforcement, etc. The Treasury shall submit a report on the opt-in contract funding of each area and may provide verification of progressive contract participation (so that all the Hollywood and progressive folks who claim they'd pay under such circumstances can be verified to be participating and paying).

Let government fund its options based on the available funds from the citizen-elected contract participation.

136

Absolutely.  The incoming new American Revolution.  My question, who will our founding "fathers" be?

I say we stick with the ones we already have.  Maybe excluding Hamilton. 

Let the blue states have Marx and Obama.  Washington and Jefferson's good for me. 

137 Fox did show something interesting earlier.  The History Channel has put together a show about what Jesus looked like, using the Shroud of Turin.  They couldn't show much of it, but the side view of a 3-D Jesus looked amazing.  Gives me goosebumps.  I'm sure He's real pleased with the way the world is going right now. 
Wonder if the muzzies have anything fun planned for Easter?

138 maybe I'm over-reacting, it wouldn't be the first time, but i'm catching a whiff of helplessness from some and an outright stench of capitulation from a few like Krauthammer.

I guess you're right—but I wonder how much of the negativity is meant to motivate the public. 

Yeah, Pelosi et. al. could force a VAT down our throats (something they seem to be fond of) but it will be a big fuckin' mistake.  Since a VAT will pave the way for increased spending (out of proportion with new revenues, of course), we'll actually see higher taxes for ever fewer services (see: CBO report on debt being 90% of GDP by 2020). 

It's awfully hard to find money to buy votes when you're:
1).  taxing those voters at an ever-increasing rate
2).  out of lenders to give you more cash
3).  forced to use the wealth extracted from the rich to pay off insane amounts of interest instead of on entitlement spending

In Europe, people are taxed and then sedated by government services provided to them with those tax dollars.  Here, we wouldn't even have the good fortune to see that money filtered back down to us through government services. 

139 If you are looking for absolute shrinkage, you will never get it unless the population declines.

Why?  It's grown faster than the population for a very long time.  But I'd be happy with doing away with personnel and just writing a check to the states.  It'd be better from a workfare point of view anyway.

140 taking my socks off.

141

Megyn Kelly having that imbecile Alan Colmes on having a hissy fit "Tea Baggers!!!11eleventy!!1" was the final straw.

Oh, Lizard Face was on? Glad I'm at work and missed it.

142 My question, who will our founding "fathers" be?

Posted by: Cheri at March 26, 2010 01:47 PM (jfHG7)

What is wrong with the original Founders? Their words and wisdom live on in us.

143

The Krautman is bummed out. But who the heck among us isn't?

Me.

Not to be Pollyanaish here, but compared to earlier in the week, I'm feeling a lot better about this. This monstrosity still doesn't have the public backing. And people aren't going to just forget how they shoved it down our throats.

Based off of what I'm seeing on my fb page (yeah, I know, but it's telling), people are piiiiiiiised. And these are people that aren't usually in tune politically.

Think of all the shit we're going to find out (and mock) in the coming weeks and months? Good ammo leading up to Nov.

144 I won't necessarily move to a cabin in the woods, but I will be arranging my life so that I can pack up and move, in one car-load, on a day's (or less) notice.

On a related note, anybody wanna buy some furniture?

Posted by: Joanna at March 26, 2010 01:12 PM (7+WuG)

Leo Szilard, of Manhattan Project fame, slept with a packed suitcase at the foot of his bed every night- even after he had escaped from Nazi Germany and was safe in America.  It's a shame that we all may be coming to that....

145 Wonder if the muzzies have anything fun planned for Easter?

Passover is Tuesday...

146 Cut programs?  We can't have that, my boy.  Might mess up the comity of the Senate or something.

147

Democrats cannot count.

148 Krauthammer....ironic name right?   has become the male version of Peggy Noonan.   All these people don't really care about the people or the ideology they hold, they care about losing  their power....

Posted by: curious at March 26, 2010 01:50 PM (p302b)

Whoa.  He's not suggesting that we become polite-company conservatives.  He's just pointing out the consequences of our current course of action.

149 Here's the nifty little trick of ObamaCare and Obama in general...he's going to try and force the Republicans into the position of being the tax collectors for his welfare state.

Fuck it. Kick everyone off welfare. The city of San Diego built its own damn trolley without federal funds. Time for charity to come from churches, not the feds. We're not going to pay debt with our damn hard-earned dollars.

And thank you for that nifty little turn of phrase, because I've been trying to think of something for my sign when I go to D.C. to protest on April 15.

150 "Republicans need to decide if they are going to run on tweaking at the margins or will they use this moment try and roll back statist assumptions that pre-date Obama? "

Slice like a f*ckin' hammer, Drew.

This moment in history has to mean more than just replacing Obama with someone less statist.  We saw how the entitlement society let to this point.  So to get rid of this current disaster, we have to roll it ALL back.

151 Cut programs?  We can't have that, my boy.  Might mess up the comity of the Senate or something.
Posted by: Mitch McConnell

As VodkaPundit says, I'd settle for a 100% Democrat Congress if every last one of them was a freshman.

152 And everyone that works in the entertainment 'industry'.  I say at 90%.

I saw we take all of Cameron's Avatar money since he hates capitalism. 

153 I expect that "Deficit committee" to come out and say that we need some inflation too. Does anyone know who China is putting on the Committee?

154 As VodkaPundit says, I'd settle for a 100% Democrat Congress if every last one of them was a freshman.

Posted by: arhooley at March 26, 2010 01:56 PM (M/+ha)

Wouldn't be prudent. 

155 This will put me out of business.

156 I think this is a shot across the bow by Krauthammer.  There hasn't been a whole lot of serious previous talk on the VAT.

As for Megyn, I think she drew the short straw.  Somebody has to have him on to fulfill his contract of time.  But I am glad I wasn't watching.

157

By way of an anecdote, I still have family in Italy and things are worse in Europe than one would imagine.  Because of things like VAT and monetary policy tied to the Euro (EU), a very large segment of society over there do not make enough to live month to month.  VAT over time doubled the cost of production and obviously these costs were passed on.  Moving to the Euro compounded that, especially for the poorer countries.  Wages, because of requirements of membership in the EU meant that wages in countries with lower productivity and higher unemployment have stagnated.  People live on credit and that will eventually crash. 

Welcome to the wonders of socialism.

And... As long as we are going to be socialists, I think there should be a hammer and sickle on the flag.  Make people take ownership for what they've done.

158

Absolutely.  The incoming new American Revolution.  My question, who will our founding "fathers" be?

I say we stick with the ones we already have.  Maybe excluding Hamilton. 

Let the blue states have Marx and Obama.  Washington and Jefferson's good for me. 

Posted by: Cautiously Pessimistic at March 26, 2010 01:51 PM (pZEar)

--As a native Virginian, I say: no need to reinvent the wheel.  However, I am all for ditching the part of the Commonwealth norht of the rappahannock, and re-annexing the red parts of West Virginia in exchange.

159

Cut programs?  We can't have that, my boy.  Might mess up the comity of the Senate or something.
Posted by: Mitch McConnell

Anyone who thinks McConnell is rolling over and going along to get along obviously wasn't around in the Bob Michel days.

C'mon, people! Every single Republican voted down this shit. Even Joesph Cao, who is only there because the Commiecrats couldn't find one of theirs not in the pokey in Cao's ghetto district. Even the RINOmint Twins of Maine, Even Crybaby Voinovich. Every last one.

 

160

With the socialists in charge and the 52% willing to sign off on damn near anything, its like us cons are trapped in a car on I-95 with a drunk at the wheel.  It can only end in a firey crash.  I keep wondering how and when we might be able to jump out of this crash waiting to happen before we slam headon into our future.

161

Posted by: laceyunderalls rootin' for the Bulldogs at March 26, 2010 01:54 PM (pLTLS)

--As in, Butler? Me too, but I would like to see at least one of St. Mary or NortthernIowa make the Final Four as well.

162 AT & T just announced a $1 Billion first quarter charge for costs related to the new health care reform.

163 What, may I ask, is wrong with being more European??

164 So much for not raising taxes on families under $250K, huh, Barack?

165 What, may I ask, is wrong with being more European??

Posted by: Nicolas Sarkozy at March 26, 2010 02:03 PM (6uiF7)

You know, he has been the most American-like Froggie they have ever had over there.

166

This will put me out of business.

So, you somehow doubt that's the objective? In case you haven't noticed, your legally elected government is now actively working against your interests. They're wrecking the economy on purpose. This has been their goal for years and the elections of 2006 and 2008 provided them with the opportunity. Add eight years of non-stop Bush-bashing and you have a malleable public ready to accept anyone who promises anything different.

We've (and I'm talking the whole country, not resident Morons) been had. 

167
Don't forget the China Bubble, since it's Negativity Friday.  When that baby blows Kratos is gonna have his wish.

168 162 This will put me out of business. Posted by: Ray at March 26, 2010 01:58 PM (21zTs) You and me both, brother....

169 As in, Butler? Me too, but I would like to see at least one of St. Mary or Northern Iowa make the Final Four as well.


Go Panthers!!

170

Don't talk to me about X, though dude.

*soooobs*

Seriously though, they're lucky they got the first OT. That was not a foul on a 3-ball. It was a foul before the shot which would have put them behind one with six seconds.

171 Once in a while, on a pretty day, I put the top down on my car and make the 45 minute drive over to the Hilton Head area.  South Carolina has no tax on groceries.

It's not that simple. Raw food has no tax. Some stuff has 2% and some 4%. Non-food State sales tax is 5% then you add on all the local sales taxes.

In the town that I live near if you buy a ready made food item there is a 10.5% sales tax on it.  The normal tax rate is 8.5%

172 A heavy "sin tax" on everything produced by Hollywood is where I would start.

173

Am I alone in my evaluation that the Administration plus Speaker Silicon Grannybust's Politburo are, right now, bordering on or are foursquare solid in the "Tyranny" encampment?

Seems like everyone else is averting their eyes to avoid seeing and talking about the fact that we are now under or soon will be under tyrannical rule. 

I'd be relieved to find that my concerns are fluff and nonsense, mainly due to highly spiced sausage breakfast indigestion or just a couple of tiny strokes or similar. But I'm afraid I'm not over-reacting.  

 

174 What I have always said we should go to is a flat 10% tax on ALL forms of income regardless of source and eliminate all other taxes.

175 We just had to fight off a grocery tax in our city.  There was no reason for it either, city not in debt, they just wanted the f'n money.

176

It's not that simple. Raw food has no tax. Some stuff has 2% and some 4%. Non-food State sales tax is 5% then you add on all the local sales taxes.

In the town that I live near if you buy a ready made food item there is a 10.5% sales tax on it.  The normal tax rate is 8.5%

And if you want to really get your hands dirty, how about including the jacked up taxes to cover welfare and healthcare costs for the illegal aliens that were hired for the harvest?  It's not like they head back home when the last tomato is picked.  And be sure the property tax on the land the food is grown on is taken into account.  As well as the taxes on the farm equipment and various regulatory fees for the pesticides, fertilizers, and seeds.  Etc.

177

I really still do not know what exactly the hell their VAT over there is. OTher then that it apparently sucks ass (Quelle suprise!)

I think it's the name that makes me fundementally unable to even evaluate the thing. Just puts me straight into a coma.

Value Added tax? WTF?

It sounds like something Burger King would have to levy on my GLBTQXYBQ burger.

178 RT (related topic) - Florida just hit a new record in unemployment 12.2%.

179 Is it still too early to talk about secession? Posted by: Rebar

Secession my ass. That assumes they have any right to the ground they stand on.

Defeat them militarily, and then herd the Dems onto reservations, where they can be subjected to a 100% income tax and fed government cheese.

180 FUBAR, watch krauthammer....his body language says his heart isn't in it.  An observation.  Are there no white or hispanic democratic apologists willing to go on the MSM and argue the administrations points?   the only people i've been seeing are black and belligerent.  why aren't we seeing white and Hispanic belligerent dems?  I didn't notice this my dem friend did.  Saying "that isn't the smartest thing to do cause you people who aren't completely on board will think it is a black/whit issue"

181

As long as we are going to be socialists, I think there should be a hammer and sickle on the flag.  Make people take ownership for what they've done.

It can go right next to the 57 stars.

182

Either that, or some kind of new chemical warfare nerve agent.

Oh noes, GLBTQ-5 gas! Grab your VAT masks!

183

From the NRO:

Unintended Consequences: Way to go, Arizona House Democrats Gabrielle Giffords, Ann Kirkpatrick and Harry Mitchell!

And now that the pinata is broken, we see it includes financial doom for the state of Arizona!

Arizona must drop a plan to cut its Medicaid programÂ’s generous eligibility and instead pay an additional $3.8 billion over the next three years under the federal health care overhaul, state officials reported Thursday.

Arizona also stands to pay billions of dollars more in subsequent years than less generous other states would have to pay, even after increased federal funding starts in 2014, the Arizona Health Care Cost Containment System said in a report.

184 Drew sez:
"The federal government uses 'base line budgeting' to set it's spending levels."

Some day he'll learn about the apostrophe, and its proper place.

-Brennan

185 To throw down the girl card, I am really really fucking sick and tired of being told it's "feminist" to support bigger government.  Funny.  I thought being a feminist meant that I believed that I was responsible for and was capable of caring for myself.  From my perspective, it's the Left who are raging paternalists, not the Right. 

Welcome to the "off the reservation" club little sister, have a seat...tea?

186 The proper use of the apostrophe in the word "its" was only settled recently, Brennan.

187

Funny.  I thought being a feminist meant that I believed that I was responsible for and was capable of caring for myself.

No.

That's called being a rational human being.

Being a feminist means your envy for having a penis has been transfered into outright penis-loathing and hatred and you've crafted an entire value system defined in opposition to it, with the starting and end point of all logic being "The Penis is the Root of all Evil".

188

his body language says his heart isn't in it. 

A lot of his body language is associated with the fact that he's paraplegic.

FYI

189

What happens to ststes rights when the states receive most of their income from the federal government?

190

with the starting and end point of all logic being "The Penis is the Root of all Evil".

And the corollary, "Everything would be fine if Men just acted like Women."

191 What is wrong with the original Founders? Their words and wisdom live on in us.

Agreed.  What I should have wrote was "Who will our leaders be that bring us back to those ideals, principles, and the core beliefs that lead to the greatness of America?"

192

What happens to ststes rights when the states receive most of their income from the federal government?

Well, you've seen the relational dynamics between a pimp and a hoe, right?  Kinda like that, but without the moral rectitude or respect for capitalism.

193

Seriously though conservative chicks need to stop trying to coopt feminist and assert that Woman is a subset of the species Human.

What would you be prompted to make of a dude who called himself a Masculinist?

At the end of the day the best you can come off is all David Duke 'we not a group about hating non-white people we just a group about loving white people'.

You make up 50% of the global population, you're not a special interest group, or adherants to some controversial philosophy. "I'm a puppyist - I believe that it's ok for puppies to exist as puppies". Well goody for you. Glad you took a stand.

The very idea that women need a group promoting the idea that it's good for women to be women is an implicit admission that you have some need to convince yourself.

194

And the corollary, "Everything would be fine if Men just acted like Women."

I couldn't agree more.

195

"186 Is it still too early to talk about secession? Posted by: Rebar

Secession my ass. That assumes they have any right to the ground they stand on.

Defeat them militarily, and then herd the Dems onto reservations, where they can be subjected to a 100% income tax and fed government cheese."

Let them keep the legal right to the name USA, though, so they can own the debt they took out to buy the votes of free-loaders.

196

everyone is saying they will do immigration next because they the votes, but i cant imagine they would do something that would bankrupt the country before the next election as immigration would do.

Posted by: Ben at March 26, 2010 01:24 PM (wuv1c)

Then you don't know Democrats. The SEIU is setting the terms here, and they have already told Obama their preference.

197 I really still do not know what exactly the hell their VAT over there is. OTher then that it apparently sucks ass (Quelle suprise!)

Heh. So far, whern they say Denmark, I say Greece! That's about the end of it. Krauthammer is getting us ready for the next battle. Right now they're fucking that deficit neutral, job-growing chicken.

198 "192 To throw down the girl card, I am really really fucking sick and tired of being told it's "feminist" to support bigger government.  Funny.  I thought being a feminist meant that I believed that I was responsible for and was capable of caring for myself.  From my perspective, it's the Left who are raging paternalists, not the Right. 

Welcome to the "off the reservation" club little sister, have a seat...tea?

Posted by: unknown jane at March 26, 2010 02:17 PM (5/yRG)"

I was so peeved when drudge called nan p "the most powerful woman"...what?  Mother Theresa?  gandhi?  Thatcher?   eva peron (the shoe lady) and someone reminded me of Golda....and he says nanny p?  She doesn't even belong in that group but Michelle Bachman and Sarah Palin do....the difference is courage.

199 Sigh. I always forget to do the italics. First two sentences are Entropy.

200 Plant fruit trees and a garden in your yard or in flower boxes if you don't have a yard. It's fun and there is nothing as yummy as your own fresh home-grown produce.

201 "195

his body language says his heart isn't in it. 

A lot of his body language is associated with the fact that he's paraplegic.

FYI

Posted by: Hussein the Plumber at March 26, 2010 02:25 PM (RkRxq)"

I know but I have been paying attention to him for a long time...so you see the nuances in his eyes in the way he holds himself, etc.  Oddly enough, I don't see him as disabled.  although I recently pointed a small friend in a wheelchair towards him as a role model and the kid is thrilled.  He has a new #1 fan...lol

202 People on here have been saying that the libs/dems are always complaining never happy.  Generally i try not to buy in to "mass labeling of any group" however, I have been observing them in a different way and I worry that they do not know how to relax, enjoy their lives, be happy but most importantly, they don't know how to be grateful and satisfied with what they have.   They have their Health victory and they are angry, and cranky, they can't even enjoy that.

203 209  Posted by: curious at March 26, 2010 02:59 PM (p302b)

They will never be happy until the opposition is silenced for good.

204 I would gladly welcome a VAT... if it meant elimination of all other federal taxes. The rate could be lower and still pull in more money because of how much isn't being taxed right now. And it would warm the hearts of the left everywhere because it is truly progressive: those with more money would obviously buy more and thus pay more taxes.

205

180  I'm of the opinion that the days of the Republic are over; this is tyranny.  However, emperors and their entourages don't stay in power forever -- the next one may be somebody the other side doesn't like so well (sucks to put that ball into play if the game turns against you, doesn't it other side?).

194  I have absolutely no penis envy (I do envy not being as strong and fast on some days; it could come in handy sometimes), but no penis envy.  I like penii; they're fun.

206

209  It's the guilt thing; "liberals" have more guilt than a stadium full of Catholics and Jews (who are often "liberal", connection?).

It's guilt mixed in with arrogance, naricissism really -- hence, they are not true liberals.

207

214  You're just a ray of sunshine this lovely afternoon.

I'm going to predict here: it won't be el precedente and his entourage that will be the biggest problem, and this could turn around on the lefties in a most awful way.

I'm going for pessimistically hopeful (down from the pessimistically optimistic of last week).

208 216  Well...either that or the miserable little git really is the great satan.  In which case, I'm fuked, but that answers any agnostic questions I might have had, so got that going for me, and Jesus is coming back soon -- which is nice; Jesus is a cool dude.

209 I have been wondering when we say "That's it.  Enough is enough.  Revolution time."  I have finally decided.  It is if the next elections are cancelled-martial law or any other reason.  I think that day is coming, as everything they are doing points to them not fearing the elections.

210 Looking at the overall tax rate in Europe it is close to 50%.  For the people in this country who actually work and party taxes the rate is also close to 50%.

That is without a the VAT.  The difference is that we have a LARGE segment of the population that pays no taxes and actually a large segment that gets a refund without paying taxes into the system.

211 This VAT is yet another gimmick that promotes spending which is already on an unsustainable course. By eventually bankrupting the government, the leftists plan to complete a takeover of the entire economy. There is a chance that when this happens we can put some meaningful government reductions into play. Everyone knows that there are scores of federal bureaucracies that can be eliminated or drastically reduced. The only question is what will the in party do when the bankruptcy finally takes place? That will be the decision that sets America's direction for the rest of the 21st century, and maybe beyond.

212 Obama has shown the way for future governance. If he can get that turd sandwich of health care reform passed by kamikaze votes, then there will be no problem for the next Republican Congress to defund the federal government. The only question is whether Boehner has the stones to do it.

213 Dear Republican Elected Idiots:

I do not know if Obama and company have figure this out yet, are actively banking on it, or are just the lucky recipients of risking all on a throw of the dice, but the health care reform gives him the chance to have a Disraeli or Gladstone type career. Just defeating him in 2012 means nothing if you leave in place this measure in any recognizable form. Because he then will be the liberal standard bearer who bled for the cause, in a country increasingly used to a statist government. You should be able to figure it out now.

Get a backbone and do what he just did--risk it all. Pull out the roots and then hope something comes along to help you out. For it has been said that the spirit of attack borne in a brave heart will lead on to victory. Stop trying to control everything (or everyone). Never mind maneuvers--go straight at 'em. That is all.

214

" No captain can do very wrong if he places his ship alongside that of the enemy. "

Horatio Nelson

215 Only two good things about a VAT. 

1) VAT's encourage the underground/barter economy.
2) If its only a VAT and sales tax were eliminated, then the punishingly regressive multiple taxation that goes on in the second hand/used goods/car market vanishes.

Other than those two advantages, VAT is a noxious thing that forces a heavy administrative and accounting burden on business that its ill able to afford, and encourages the offshoring of jobs to countries so the "value" of assembly can be "added" in a more tax favorable environment.

216

Obama will chastise with scorpions!

Hmm.. does the administration even have a "scorpion" budget?  Have to check into that and see if maybe some stimulus dollars went that direction.

Prepare for the fall of the free Republic.

I think America is a bit bigger than all of that, and that American's are whole hell of a lot smarter on the whole than the Democratic party and Obama's cronies give them credit for - they are beginning to awaken even as we speak.

Prepare to see King Obama arise and eat much flesh!

Yikes.. ok.. well, I'm hoping this falls under the "poetic liscense" arena.  Besides I thought most of the moonbat lefties were strict vegitarians?

Course "Prepare to see King Obama arise and eat much celery" really doesn't have quite the same ominous ring too it, granted.. lol..

217

Flyover Sam - neat idea. I'll sign on for 18%.

But I suspect (1) after the 18% people opted out, there wouldn't be near enough revenue to pay for services to the 60% people. They would have to cut some programs and that can never happen. And the dirty little secret is that they know the system would collapse. 

218

I'm not seeing Krauthammer as giving up. But I think there will be more of these editorials from him and others. We are in serious trouble here and the stakes were just raised far higher.

I anticipate some very gloomy prognostications, and we are now past the point of saying, "Watch out, this could happen if the Democrats get their way and do this, that, or the other."

We are now at the point of "This is what WILL happen, and some of it sooner rather than later, unless we actually UNDO what they have accomplished."

I was around for Jimmy Carter's glorious presidency, and remember going to an Americans for the Competitive Enterprise System meeting shortly after Reagan was elected. Bill Simon spoke. People were happy Reagan had been elected, but there was some real question from the people there as to whether we had gone too far off the rails to get back or not. That's a very real question now, as well.

 

219 I suspect this might end up being the entitlement too far, the leftist scheme that goes overboard and backlash begins. I don't know for sure, but I do know that the election of Democrats to power had nothing to do with a massive American movement to the left.

220 Nationailze energy production, just like Uncle Hugo. It has the dual advantages of being of actual value (as opposed to, say, raising taxes on all of us unemployed and government workers) and it fucks HARD the states of Alaska and Texas, amongst other red states.

221 I'm not sure that a direct tax on sales proceeds would be constitutional.  Article I, section 2 of the constitution provides that any direct tax be approportioned among the states, i.e., no state would have to pay more than another.  So California would have to pay no more than North Dakota, which would make it a pretty meaningless tax.  The 16th amendment only applies to income taxes.  Am I wrong here?

222 I think we should stop funneling so much money through the federal government. Right now, we send tax revenues to the federal gov't, and then our congressmen do their darnedest to bring a healthy share of that back to their states. In that transaction, politicians touch all our money and a bunch of it sticks to their fingers, never to be applied toward its intended purpose. (Ex: Pelosi using $2 mill to jet her grandkids around.) Instead, we should send only what the federal gov't needs for ligitimate uses, such as national defense. The rest stays in the states without making that trip through the bowels of the federal gov't.

223 I really think we could stop this crap-o-la if we went for it. If everyone opposed to this bill simply said NO all of this would end. What are they going to do? Put 80 million people in jail? How could they stop us? We don't need to put up with this. what if even just a few million people converged on DC and refused to leave until they repealed this horrible bill? I know people have jobs, responsibilities, and businesses to run; however, people will end up with NOTHING if we don't stop this NOW. They only way we can stop it is if we ALL come together and make it happen.

224 Here is what the GOP needs to do to hit the DEMS in November.

Establish themselves as a party that is anti-government spending and stick by it.
People are getting fustrated by Obama and Congress for their out of control spending which most of it is govt favors and pork to Obama's political buddies.

80% of this HC Overhaul is nothing but Pork spending that has nothing to do with Health Care what is is nothing more than subsidizes and favors to Private Insurance companies. No wonder the Private Insurers were not against this bill, they want gobs of Obama's govt handouts too.

Obama's overall domestic plan is like that of a clueless Film Studio Exec, throw large amounts of someone else's money at the problem and cross your fingers that it works.



 

225 We can, on paper, stem the flood of red ink and get the US on track to first get out of debt, then to start shrinking the government.  But will it be even remotely possible to do so?  I'm not sure.  The government has bribed practically every person in America one way or another.  And every one of us stands to lose if the government gets cut back, be it via means-testing of entitlements or many other ways.  Can even a conservative figure of the stature of Reagan get enough votes to claw back the US government by 30 or 40%, which is what is needed?  The size of the cuts required to solve this problem will be such that, as I said, everyone is going to get hit, because the government has been subsidizing almost everyone in America for 20 years now.  Will people really vote against their own immediate interests in order to stave off future collapse?  I have very serious doubts.
I always said the energy situation in America will remain a disaster until the lights start going out.  Only then will people agree to act.  I think this is the same.  Only when the US government begins to collapse under its economic load and the super-inflation hits (along with all the associated problems) will people finally arise from their confused slumber and react.
One hope--Moody's downgrades US paper and/or our biggest creditors begin to start asking for payouts on the bonds.  This may shake up the system.  It would starve the government beast and force it to raise taxes hugely across the board.  I'm not sure Mr and Mrs America will accept a 20% VAT like they have in the EU without a certain amount of complaining.  That might be enough to get them to actually vote government money and benefits out of their pockets.  Maybe.
More likely...Mad Max!! 

226 Repeal of something that is constitutionly wrong is a useless endeavor and a waste of money and resources. Obamacare is unconstitutional therefore there's no need to repeal it. That's why several states are trying to get a constitutional amendment against the new Obamacare statute on their next ballot.

And I have no idea where what's his name...John Conyers... got the impression that Obamacare is constitutionally valid. I reckon "lefties" read the constitution different than the rest of us. Go figure, eh?

227 232 I really think we could stop this crap-o-la if we went for it. If everyone opposed to this bill simply said NO all of this would end. What are they going to do? Put 80 million people in jail? How could they stop us?

It's run by the IRS.  No arrests would be made, they'd simply lock up your bank accounts with a few key presses and garnishee your wages.
Civil disobedience of this kind against the government is not an option any more, at least to anyone with a job and/or bank account.  When Washington told King George "Come and get it," Georgie boy had to load up sailing ships with soldiers and fight his way there.  Now a drone in a basement at the IRS or the FBI or any number of places can destroy you with a computer.  Times have changed, alas.

228

@23: "No half measures. If we're going to save this country, we have to napalm the left. We're at an inflection point here.We need men and women of principle, courage and commitment."

Um, this is 21st Century America......that kinda stuff went out of vogue a long, long time ago.  Not on an individual level for many people, but society-wide? It's playing bridge with the dodo, passenger pigeon, and mastodon.

229

@38: "Whose military are we going to leech off of while this is happening?"

Herro!  Prease to folgive, but wirr not be "reeching off of" so much as "glovering undel boot of."

230

@115: "European future?  Western or Eastern?"

First one, then t'other.

231

@122: "So we need a tax on non-production.  Tax the lawyers."

And professors.  You produce nothing (well, maybe future Marxists), and you do it all on the public dime.

232 If Dems put through a VAT, I would love to keep the VAT and drop other taxes instead, as a consumption tax that rebates exports and is charged to imports is a great idea. Say drop payroll taxes instead and keep the VAT. Tax consumption. Stimulate hiring. Tax imports legally. Assist exports legally. The great thing is the Dems pay the political price - the only problem is the GOP will have to run against the VAT, which makes it harder to keep it while lowering payroll taxes..

233 Hetaher Radish, a vat is not a cumulative 25% tax on complicated stuff...its just takes at each level. 1.00 1.00 1.00 = 3.00 + 5% sales tax = 3.15 1.00 + 5% = 1.05 1.00 + 5% = 1.05 1.00 + 5% = 1.05 Total = 3.15 Same difference.