July 03, 2010

Local signs of the dempression
— Purple Avenger

Of course there's plenty of the usual indicators starting to show "the recovery" is about as genuine as the Easter Bunny.

But, there are other more visceral, individually observable indicators I've been seeing out in the street indicating not just a "slowdown" of business associated with typical recessions where only the really weak go under, rather wholesale devastation of long standing medium sized businesses to the point where they're closing up shop. Obviously, its much easier to ramp an existing business than to start a new one from scratch.

We are now to the point where the "easy path" to future jobs growth has been, and is being, destroyed wholesale. The small/medium sized companies with say a core of 50-100 employees that might have been able to double that during good times are simply vanishing.

Owners who might have been able to struggle hard, stay afloat, and keep going have decided that in the business hostile environment we have currently, its easier to just pack it in if they're personally comfortable enough to be able to retire. Maybe it wasn't the caliber of retirement they'd hoped for, but they're rationally realizing the intangibles of peace of mind and having some free time are worth something. Thousands have decided to stop trying to shovel sand against the tide and just go with the flow.

Absent a significant political realignment in Washington, I find it unlikely we'll see those former business owners reenter the business of creating businesses and jobs.

Other local observations of a micro nature:

Some busy intersections where there had previously been one guy with a sign panhandling, now have three competing.

There has been a big local uptick in the percentage of women panhandling. This suggests to me that the job losses are extending into areas they hadn't previously. Women had been hurt some by the dempression, but nowhere near the extent that men were.

But...as all those small/medium sized businesses close up shop, their office staff gets streeted along with the rest of the guys out in the field.

Posted by: Purple Avenger at 07:33 PM | Comments (139)
Post contains 352 words, total size 2 kb.

1 And the MFM still protects Barry at all costs.

Posted by: eman at July 03, 2010 07:36 PM (kFytp)

2 The hookers in front of the porn shop are getting cheaper.  And prettier.  FWIW.

Posted by: Herr Morgenholz at July 03, 2010 07:36 PM (7RIWT)

3 You can't make an omelette without breaking a few eggs, and you can't socialize a nation without a few casualties!

Posted by: Lord Barry Of Hyde Park at July 03, 2010 07:41 PM (Hu/Da)

4 The stimulus is working!


(just the way Barry said it would)

Posted by: Joe Biden at July 03, 2010 07:42 PM (rqC5o)

5 Hey, I live in a state that voted in a new tax on businesses and new tax on the "rich" (i.e. small businessmen) in the middle of a recession! We suck!

Posted by: Oregon Is Dumber Than Dirt at July 03, 2010 07:43 PM (Hu/Da)

6 The costs of those businesses are sunk. When they look forward and do the math, the opportunity costs of running the business are greater than the costs of closing up, so they close. It's pretty simple. If we don't want to see this happen there are two taxes they can suspend immediately to get the party restarted. One, cut the payrolls tax. Two, make capital gains 0%.

Posted by: Jeff at July 03, 2010 07:43 PM (OUDMW)

7 When businesses start cutting employees, they often start with support staff.  They can outsource that stuff or just dump it on someone else in the office who needs the job too much to complain.

Posted by: huerfano at July 03, 2010 07:48 PM (rqC5o)

8 Jeff-  I sure hope your not holding your breath.

Posted by: Naan at July 03, 2010 07:49 PM (GARYj)

9 I've started to see some of my non-political acquaintances noticing the effects on the economy that the Democrats are having.

As others have been pointing out, if Obama was trying to make things worse intentionally, what would he be doing differently?

Posted by: 18-1 at July 03, 2010 07:49 PM (bgcml)

10 NIKE FREE RUN+: Bewegungsfreiheit, wie F¨¹ße sie lieben

Posted by: laufschuh at July 03, 2010 07:50 PM (RqK8p)

11 Hey, I live in a state that voted in a new tax on businesses and new tax on the "rich" (i.e. small businessmen) in the middle of a recession!

We suck!

Posted by: Oregon Is Dumber Than Dirt at July 03, 2010 11:43 PM (Hu/Da)

I'm sure taxing businesses out of existence to make sure that you have plenty of teachers, bureaucrats, and lawyers will make a lot of sense in the long term. I mean really, when was the last time you got anything you actually need from a business?


Posted by: 18-1 at July 03, 2010 07:52 PM (bgcml)

12 Two friends and I are starting a very small business together.  We were all laid off within the last six months and the job market is dead.  What else are we going to do?  Gotta try to make a living.  If this fails we'll do something else.

Posted by: Annabelle at July 03, 2010 07:52 PM (KuSkz)

13 My business is down 30% year-to-date over the same period last year and I'm not optimistic that it will pick up any soon.

Posted by: profligatewaste at July 03, 2010 07:56 PM (b3rrc)

14 Even companies that are doing well and are flush with cash are cutting back and closing sites. The smell of dread is in the air.

Posted by: eman at July 03, 2010 07:58 PM (kFytp)

15 My business is down 30% year-to-date over the same period last year and I'm not optimistic that it will pick up any soon.

Posted by: profligatewaste at July 03, 2010 11:56 PM (b3rrc)

I promised you change, didn't I?

Posted by: Barack Obama at July 03, 2010 07:59 PM (bgcml)

16 Oh yeah, I had lunch two people from my school who just graduated - they said that they'd work for nothing in my industry, just to get experience and contacts. It was really sad. Thanks a bunch, Barry!

Posted by: Oregon Is Dumber Than Dirt at July 03, 2010 08:04 PM (Hu/Da)

17 The problem is that with the Man-child in Chief holding office, there is absolutely no reason for optimism. Things are only going to get worse. I sold all my equities for that reason when the Dow was approaching 11,000. It's at 9800 now.

Posted by: Cicero at July 03, 2010 08:05 PM (9hu1I)

18 Joe Biden Has Company On His Surprise Trip To Iraq (Photos)

Posted by: newser at July 03, 2010 08:06 PM (V45rX)

19 I'm sure taxing businesses out of existence to make sure that you have plenty of teachers, bureaucrats, and lawyers will make a lot of sense in the long term. I mean really, when was the last time you got anything you actually need from a business? Actually, we're not getting any more " teachers, bureaucrats, and lawyers" - we're protecting the excessive salaries of senior teachers and bureaucrats (while laying off the junior teachers), plus all the government retirees who get 90%+ of their final salary as a pension. Oregon just passed a law saying if the inept state pension fund makes a calculation mistake, and overpays a retiree, the retiree doesn't have to refund the money when the mistake was discovered.

Posted by: Oregon Is Dumber Than Dirt at July 03, 2010 08:09 PM (Hu/Da)

20 I was living overseas for nine months and came back in late May.  I had some horse fencing done and a concrete slab poured.  The contractors were so glad to have any work and cash payment.  Both of them told me that everybody is holding off on all work and they don't know how much longer they can keep non-family employees.  Also noticed a lot of marginal restaurants and speciality stores have closed in the Houston area.  We're in better shape than most places but it is starting to slow down.  Too much uncertainty plus we get an open-ended ban on drilling in the Gulf.  Even with economic diversification in the early nineties, oil drives the economy on the Gulf Coast.

Posted by: Mr. Dave at July 03, 2010 08:10 PM (xtiJ+)

21 The smell of dread is in the air.

The smell of unicorns in advanced stages of decomp is in the air.

Posted by: Purple Avenger at July 03, 2010 08:13 PM (13BCd)

22 The ObamaFuckalyspe is just getting warmed up, yo.

Posted by: rawmuse at July 03, 2010 08:15 PM (gQWi+)

23 I was up in the north country of New Hampshire last weekend.  I haven't been up there in two years in the summer.  Massive numbers of vacant store fronts.  Businesses that have been open for years are now closed.  It seemed as if every third house had a for sale sign on it.  Brutal. 

Posted by: Tollhouse at July 03, 2010 08:16 PM (yt6tb)

24 Middle Class || Middle America == Big Enough To Fail

Posted by: Obamametrics at July 03, 2010 08:17 PM (swuwV)

25 Not to get off the subject, but I just hit your tip jar. You're in good company, Iowahawk, and Sarah Pac. Love the site. Back to your regularly recorded program!

Posted by: Milo at July 03, 2010 08:19 PM (Jqce/)

26 I had occasion to drive around the industrial park areas of Boca Raton recently.  It was completely devastated.  Long standing businesses that had been there since the early 80's were gone, commercial vacancy rates were well in the 50-70% range.

None of the recessions during my lifetime have ever destroyed businesses at this rate.

Posted by: Purple Avenger at July 03, 2010 08:22 PM (13BCd)

27 The Democrats have given little reason to believe that they know how to improve economic conditions (or even care to). Nonetheless, the plural of anecdote is not data. IT spending and tech hiring are both up, in some cases up strongly. Some of that is Barry's wacky stimulus machine, but a good deal of it is real realignment in preparation for the next wave. When Apple can sell a completely sick number of phones and iPads to the point where they can't even keep them in stock, we're far from a depression. My expectation is that the markets will start pricing in an improved regulatory environment in about 60 more days when the shape of the mid-term blowout becomes clear. Until then, keep your butt clenched.

Posted by: DriveBy at July 03, 2010 08:23 PM (5Vlcy)

28 Things are so bad in these here parts, the pan handlers are using dutch ovens. (!)

Posted by: Cleetus MacDangle at July 03, 2010 08:23 PM (UH9ne)

29 I am somewhat disturbed by the seeming downtick in politician-focused anger.  Hope it's just a lull before the real fall storm.

Steele needs to go.


Posted by: ParisParamus at July 03, 2010 08:25 PM (JbetV)

30 Yeah, when you live at home with Mom and Dad, you have money for iPads and such.

Posted by: rawmuse at July 03, 2010 08:26 PM (gQWi+)

31 Seriously, Democrats have no idea how to stimulate jobs. Sure, in the old days, some businessmen were Democrats, but now they are all government employees, educators, college profs, and union types. Oh, and lawyers, who probably think that creating more red tape and laws is good because it brings them business. Like war is good for soldiers...LOL. The MSM and the education system is the biggest problem. Its obvious that capital gains tax should be ZERO %, but since those two institutions are full of leftists, not many people understand this, and instinctively thinks it not fair for "greedy" people to get rich. My advice to the GOP would be to make every tax cut planned matched by a "working man's" tax like payroll tax. That would create jobs and also look "fairer" to the masses who don't know better. Oh, and hammer, hammer relentlessly on the public sector employees...average joes are now aware how much these dudes make. Just roll their salaries back to 2005, make 'em pay for some of their bennies, and much of our "budget crisis" goes away.

Posted by: sexypig at July 03, 2010 08:27 PM (0t7L8)

32 I've been a temp at a factory that makes parts for AC units since Feb. and at our quarterly meeting right before Memorial Day weekend the production managers told us to "enjoy this three day weekend, because these will probably be your only days off until the fourth of July."

Except that wasn't the case, we had every weekend off with no mandatory OT. The agency told me this gig would be through August, but judging by the size of the orders and the fact that our bosses told us July's orders were looking "soft" I think I'll be lucky to make it through July.

Posted by: nightwitch at July 03, 2010 08:27 PM (SbaLN)

33 Gosh, I sure hope Al Gore can still afford a good lawyer.

Posted by: eman at July 03, 2010 08:36 PM (kFytp)

34 @47 Interesting... I listened to this podcast about news in the OS X world, and while these guys on this group show talk smack about how everyone from Jobs to Gates should be running their businesses... Yet one of them just admitted their parents paid their television tax (this is in the UK). In other words they still live at home. Incredible. Eurotrash.

Posted by: George Orwell at July 03, 2010 08:41 PM (AZGON)

35 Sorry, I meant 27.

Posted by: George Orwell at July 03, 2010 08:42 PM (AZGON)

36 commercial vacancy rates were well in the 50-70% range.

That's the next tsunami that's coming up fast - when all the commercial mortgages start coming due in 2011 or so.  From what I'm reading, that's going to make the housing market look fantastic.  The banks aren't going to be able to bury those loans as well either.


Posted by: alexthechick at July 03, 2010 08:42 PM (thJ0V)

37 adidas Summer CLIMACOOL Shoes

Posted by: maxtom at July 03, 2010 08:43 PM (RqK8p)

38 I live within walking distance of several new, commercial buildings. They are gorgeous, really. Architectural masterpieces. Some of them have room for hundreds of offices, tens of thousands of sq feet of available space. They have been empty since they were finished. Back in 2008.

Posted by: rawmuse at July 03, 2010 08:45 PM (gQWi+)

39

I work in a bank. Several times during the year, the number of people bringing in their stash of loose change increases (to pay for extra presents at Christmas, to pay for deer season, etc.).

But lately, everyone--and I mean everyone--who has a bag of nickles, or a jar of half dollars, or some old Eisenhowers they thought might be worth something someday--they're all brnging them in to be counted and converted into paper money.

I'm reminded of George C. Scott in the movie Patton: "You know how I know they're finished out there? The carts. They're using wooden carts to move their wounded and supplies." Except now, it's coins.

I firmly believe we'd already be out of this situatiuon by now if, after the TARP bail-out stabilized the financial sector, the government had done nothing else. Instead, Dems got out their pink wish-list (another bloated entitlement, constant threats to business, tax increases, Luddite, pie-in-the-sky energy policy, tax increases, and uncertainty, uncertainty, and more uncertainty.)  High unemployemnt is baked into the cake, and the double-dip recession everyone fears? That may soon seem like the memory of heaven.

Posted by: Shawn at July 03, 2010 08:52 PM (jIuH3)

40 "I live within walking distance of several new, commercial buildings. They are gorgeous, really. Architectural masterpieces." Yo, we gots to have offices somewheres.

Posted by: ACORN at July 03, 2010 08:54 PM (AZGON)

41 Who is John Galt ?

Posted by: blargo at July 03, 2010 08:56 PM (JNqU9)

42 Business aren't hiring because they don't know which way Government is going to affect their bottom line. Uncertain tax and regulatory environment = nobody hires new workers.
This is also what is driving many small business to close, as their owners see the writing on the wall, and close up shop.

Posted by: Mark at July 03, 2010 08:56 PM (0nwFA)

43

The fireworks on the bay sound like howitzers firring.

Neat-O!

Posted by: Jim in San Diego at July 03, 2010 08:58 PM (oIp16)

44 39 I live within walking distance of several new, commercial buildings. They are gorgeous, really. Architectural masterpieces. Some of them have room for hundreds of offices, tens of thousands of sq feet of available space.

They have been empty since they were finished. Back in 2008.

Posted by: rawmuse at July 04, 2010 12:45 AM (gQWi+)

That sounds like the early 80's out here in California. Now many of the old buildings are empty too.

Posted by: Jim in San Diego at July 03, 2010 08:59 PM (oIp16)

45 Don't worry. The MFM will be right on top of this issue. As in "All is well, Barry is hip and dreamy."

Posted by: George Orwell at July 03, 2010 09:00 PM (AZGON)

46 Oh speaking of libs and wishlists and hypocrisy (even though we weren't), I work for a group of people who are huge Democrats and enormous liberals and who delight in discussing how much better and more compassionate they are because of this.

They also make sure that the firm never breaches the 50 employee threshold so they don't have to comply with the FMLA regulations.  Yup, they're totally completely compassionate until it affects their bottom line.  Then it's all FYNQ. 

Posted by: alexthechick at July 03, 2010 09:03 PM (thJ0V)

47 I'm in San Diego (my hometown) for a week to visit family and friends. Earlier today, I drove along Murphy Canyon Road (parallels I-15), because 20 years ago this month, I helped to start up a software company in an office complex on that road. Murphy Canyon Road mostly has business office buildings, anywhere from one to six (or so) stories high.

Driving along the two-mile stretch of MRC from Clairemont Mesa Blvd down to Aero Drive, building after building, complex after complex, was partially, largely, or entirely empty. The main exceptions, as far as I could see, were one building leased by a law firm and the San Diego Chargers football team complex. A few other buildings/complexes had some tenants, but were clearly not entirely occupied. There were lots and lots of large "FOR LEASE" signs on and in front of the buildings. It was pretty stunning and not a little depressing.  ..bruce..

Posted by: bfwebster at July 03, 2010 09:07 PM (KNrXl)

48 @47 Precisely, exactly the behavior of libtard businesses. Take advertising. An ultra leftard business, yet it loves to hire the youngest *cheapest* people... And as often as possible, as 1099 freelancers to avoid committing to paying full SSI and benefits and 401(k) contributions.

Posted by: George Orwell at July 03, 2010 09:09 PM (AZGON)

49 /venting I am a small business owner. If you asked me three months ago whether or not we were in a recovery, I'd give a guarded "yes". Orders were booming, business was exploding, our pipeline was good. I was looking forward to hiring additional people to help. If you ask me today ... I say definitively that we are in the early stages of round 2 of the first depression of the 2000's. The MFM has been terrified to call this depression a depression. It would make the anointed one, blessed is his name, look like a schmuck. Well, it is a depression. I just watched half my pipeline evaporate over the last 3 weeks. Customers are pulling back hard on their spending. Layoffs, which never stopped, have accelerated hard. Businesses are closing down fast. Good businesses, that may have been able to weather storms in the past. The owners are asking whether or not its worth it to continue with the socialist in chief still in charge. We aren't looking for people anymore. I can't say with any certainty that we are going to have sufficient revenue to keep everything going. We have a number of large orders pending, and a few that were a sure thing. One of the orders just got pushed out 8+ months. Another got scaled back. I have people whose families depend upon me not f*cking up, so that they can live their lives. And you know what ... my state is not just actively hostile to me, they are trying to quadruple my taxes. No, not simply raise them a little. Here in Michigan, the SBT replacement, the MBT ... these nice people just sent us a letter demanding four times ... FOUR TIMES ... the d*mn amount our accountant had us pay. Why? So they can give it to Detroit to be wasted on overpriced union salaries for teachers in the failed DPS? The state unemployment ponzi scheme ran out of money last year. So they upped everyones contribution. I look at all the taxes I sent in to the federal government, to the state government, and thought ... hey ... wouldn't it be better if, instead of giving this money to politicians to waste, I hired another person instead? Wouldn't that have a nice positive impact upon the economy? But I can't do that. I have to give Barry money so he can give it to the 'Palestinians' who rejoice everytime they kill one of my co-religionists. I have to give Jennifer money, so she can feed it to one of the many inefficient and over-priced political constituents of hers for political payback. What keeps me up at night is wondering whether all these reduction in our orders will wind up forcing me to make some terrible choices. What if ... what if ... I look at the balance sheet and make that calculation? What if ... Barry and his minions decide to "spread the wealth" ... MY WEALTH THAT I SWEATED BLOOD AND TEARS TO EARN THAT I TOOK TERRIBLE RISKS TO MY FAMILIES WELLBEING TO BUILD ... to others even more than he is doing now? What if ... he decides that my healthcare doesn't cost enough, so he is gonna raise the rates, so he can cover everyone ... well, no, not really cover everyone, and I am sure that lots of his friends are suddenly making more money, which will likely find its way back to him. What Barry and the rest of the looters need to fear is, what if I saw f*ck it. I'm done. Let everyone go, and go home. Stop trying to enrich his friends, and stop letting the looters loot. Stop fighting the system. Let the engine of the US economy say ... we are done ... we don't want to play your game anymore. But Barry and his minions ... they aren't quite smart enough to grasp why this would be a very bad thing. Enough of us say screw this ... and this economy won't grow. Hiring ... real hiring ... won't occur. Demand for what we build is weakening. At some point I have to make a hard choice. I don't want to make it, but Barry and his friends, and his idiotic policies are making it much harder to choose to battle on, while we wait for competent management of the fiscal and monetary policies. I've got some hard thinking to do going ahead. And in 6 months, the tax exemption for research equipment expires. Which may wipe out 40-50% of my commercial business. /end vent

Posted by: John Galt at July 03, 2010 09:09 PM (80GjT)

50

Going with the signs of the un -depression

Theft is way up at thrift, church stores, that funnel all profits to underprivileged people.

Load bags up, with what they want and walk out.

Posted by: Who Knows at July 03, 2010 09:10 PM (7FgWm)

51 I hired in as a maintenance tech in a plastic molding plant in April after being off for almost a year and a half. We only do service work so it seems to be fairly steady. Service work entails small orders as they are for autos that are no longer being made. One of the tools we have is the grill for the 69 Camaro. My pay is what I started at in my last job almost ten years ago but I'm grateful to be working again, especially here in Michigan.

Posted by: Bill R, at July 03, 2010 09:11 PM (EhlQq)

52 Posted by: John Galt at July 04, 2010 01:09 AM (80GjT)

Posted by: George Orwell at July 03, 2010 09:18 PM (AZGON)

53 My pay is what I started at in my last job almost ten years ago Lucky. My sole proprietorship gross revenue has fallen off to what it was twenty years ago.

Posted by: George Orwell at July 03, 2010 09:19 PM (AZGON)

54 My cousin lost four restaurants and his house. One of my nephews couldn't find work for a year and joined the Army EOD. Another is staying in school for an advanced degree. My brother has been unemployed for a year and a half. He's selling his house. He has two boys and a wife. A member of my choir hasn't worked for over a year and is trying to join the Army. I'm not saying that the military isn't a good choice. I work for a manufacturer in California. If cap & trade goes into effect here, we're done. So's my home in that case.

Posted by: theCork at July 03, 2010 09:24 PM (UHrcQ)

55

Posted by: George Orwell at July 04, 2010 01:19 AM (AZGON)

I'm not complaining too loudly because I draw a military retirement check. Between the two, if I watch myself, I live okay. The retirement screwed me out of unemployment compensation though and made me ineligible for anything from the state. I only complain about that because there are others gaming the system and I ran up alot of debt while unemployed.

Posted by: Bill R, at July 03, 2010 09:26 PM (EhlQq)

56 Actually, the list people I know who've lost businesses lately is longer than I want to write. Time for a drink

Posted by: theCork at July 03, 2010 09:27 PM (UHrcQ)

57 But just remember, while we look at the slow-motion train wreck the Democrats have made of the economy, if you so much as breathe your dissatisfaction with the tax policy of our "administration" to Joe Biden, you're just a smartass. He'll even tell you so. Peasant.

Posted by: George Orwell at July 03, 2010 09:27 PM (AZGON)

58 The vacant buildings are puzzling because someone or some corporation spent tens of millions of dollars to have them built, spared no expense on the marble and fountains, and they sit vacant. And I don't mean "mostly vacant". I mean not one tenant. Front door padlocked. Never had the first tenant in any of them. Mystifies the shit out of me.

Posted by: rawmuse at July 03, 2010 09:29 PM (gQWi+)

59 Posted by: Bill R, at July 04, 2010 01:26 AM (EhlQq) Good for you. The last people I begrudge are the military.

Posted by: George Orwell at July 03, 2010 09:30 PM (AZGON)

60 Vandals Desecrate VFW Memorial in New York

Posted by: newser at July 03, 2010 09:35 PM (V45rX)

61 Front door padlocked. Never had the first tenant in any of them. Mystifies the shit out of me. Reminds me of a condo high rise put up in Long Beach just at the end of the RE boom of the late eighties. The market tanked and it stood empty, freaking empty, facing the ocean right on the beach, for nearly a freaking decade. In the late nineties when RE went apeshit in SoCal it opened for sale and is now occupied, but doubtless riddled with current owners underwater on their 2003-2006 purchases. One can understand the value of a depreciating asset as a tax write-off, but soon large conglomerate owners will be left with lots of write-offs and no cash flow positive properties. The ugly hasn't even begun.

Posted by: George Orwell at July 03, 2010 09:38 PM (AZGON)

62

I remember a few years back when a pair of out-of-work Austin bartenders/democrats decided that Bush was the devil and started their own t-shirt and bumper sticker business that made fun of Bush.  As I recall, they made a nice bit of coin. 

Ah, found the story.  The weekly standard article.

Maybe some can do the same with anti-Obama stuff.

Posted by: Darth Randall at July 03, 2010 09:43 PM (98AOY)

63 Firearms and ammo are still growth areas, I am guessing. Last time I went to buy ammo I saw a hell of a lot of empty shelves.

Posted by: rawmuse at July 03, 2010 09:45 PM (gQWi+)

64 59 The vacant buildings are puzzling because someone or some corporation spent tens of millions of dollars to have them built, spared no expense on the marble and fountains, and they sit vacant. And I don't mean "mostly vacant". I mean not one tenant. Front door padlocked. Never had the first tenant in any of them.

Mystifies the shit out of me. Posted by: rawmuse

The someone who built it is probably a union pension fund. We have a mall that was built with union pension money years ago. They really don't care about a huge return on their investment as long as it generates enough cash to pay the insurance and taxes. 20 years down the road, they sell it.

Posted by: MrCaniac at July 03, 2010 09:52 PM (Vol3D)

65

A lot of those vacant commerical properties get built because the money is already spent years before completion. Contracts and all that.

Lots of empty ones around here in Omaha and we've supposedly got a low unemployment rate. Yeah, right. That's why I'm still not working and job fairs are drawing 4,000+ applicants.

If I didn't have family I'd be living on the street now.

Posted by: Dack Thrombosis at July 03, 2010 09:55 PM (P33XN)

66 I also noticed my bank cut their hours of operation way back. Used to open at 7am and stayed open until 7pm. Now they open at 9:30am and close at 6pm.

Posted by: Dack Thrombosis at July 03, 2010 09:59 PM (P33XN)

67 You see, the wonderful thing about Clownifornia is that a place like, say, the DMV can reduce operating hours by 20%. Nevertheless the DMV workers can still get raises and pension bennies guaranteed. This hemlock sure is tasty.

Posted by: George Orwell at July 03, 2010 10:05 PM (AZGON)

68 #48,

Hey Bruce, what are you doing these days? I remember your work from the Sundog days and when I was being shown demos by Bob Jacob while he was starting up Cinemaware.



It's pretty scary out there and I suspect the Obamites like it that way. It's so much easier to deal with a small number of massive corporate entities than pesky SMBs and their pesky diverse interests. All of the IT contract work I've been getting in the last couple of years has come from big companies like mega-banks updating their systems at the branches.

We've been delivered into the hands of insane people and like the 30s, far too many actually support and trust those inflicting the wounds.

Posted by: epobirs at July 03, 2010 10:07 PM (fovfD)

69 You know things are bad when there is a huge growth in Americans doing jobs even the illegal aliens won't do - standing at he curb of busy roads and intersections wearing sandwich boards or dancing around in monkey suits.

Posted by: Druid at July 03, 2010 10:09 PM (Oe01r)

70 "It's so much easier to deal with a small number of massive corporate entities than pesky SMBs and their pesky diverse interests." See Goldberg, Jonah. "Liberal Fascism."

Posted by: George Orwell at July 03, 2010 10:11 PM (AZGON)

71 #68

Then you have the special insanity of Los Angeles, where the union has a contract that gives all of remaining workers raises if anyone is laid off. Meaning it takes years before the layoffs actually reduce any ongoing cost.

I think every city official from the Mayor on down who knowingly signed that contract should be deported to a random spot on the planet and never allowed back in. Most of them seem to hold foreign citizens in higher regard than anyone born here, so they should be glad to go.

Posted by: epobirs at July 03, 2010 10:23 PM (fovfD)

72 5 Hey, I live in a state that voted in a new tax on businesses and new tax on the "rich" (i.e. small businessmen) in the middle of a recession!

We suck!

As a fellow Oregonian I can't believe the monumental stupidity of the mother fuckers who live in this state.  They voted themselves the most regressive sales tax in the nation because it taxes business transactions not gross income.  Because of this businesses have to increase the cost of absolutely everything including items that are exempt in every other state like fucking groceries.

None of the brain dead stupid fucks in this state realize it is a sales tax because it isn't added to the receipt as a tax it is included in the price.  These are the same people that get pissed off when companies close down plants and leave for other states or countries.

I'm going to start a new TV show called "America's Dumbest Dumbfucks".  It'll just be a camera pointed at downtown Portland

BTW:  I heard on the radio a few days ago someone on the Eugene city bragging about how a new St Vincent/DePaul was opening and how great all these new jobs are.....St. Vincent/DePaul = the Nordstroms of Eugene.

Posted by: Lemmiwinks at July 03, 2010 10:51 PM (IqfKc)

73 I've read many predictions over the last couple years that producers would go "John Galt" if government went feral.  Looks like they were right.

Posted by: nraendowment at July 03, 2010 10:55 PM (WN5r+)

74 Hmmmm.

I program computers.  Mostly websites now but I pretty much do a lot of different things after 30+ years of being a professional.

It sucks out there.  Finding work is easy.  Getting work is very easy. 

Getting paid on time is not.

So far I've cut back on expenses to the bone, stocked up in preparation for bad times and such.  I'm still doing what work I can afford to do for clients who qualify to me as "good".  They might pay, maybe not.  They certainly hope to pay if/when things get better.  If things don't then that's a big hole in my Receivables that I'll just have to write off.

You know it's kinda sad and more than a little bit strange.  I hate jumping on the kooky bandwagon but it really bothers me that so many trends are coming together.

Y'all be well out there.

Posted by: memomachine at July 03, 2010 11:03 PM (MwCol)

75

I've never been to Oregon, but I've heard the stories.

A friend of my Dad's took a trip out there and discovered he couldn't pump his own gasoline. He about had a meltdown, I guess. Yuck yuck yuck!

Remember that article posted here some time ago about college grads unable to find employment? They live in Oregon. Funny thing was, most of them didn't seem to be looking for work outside of Oregon. Now if you're stuck in a situation, like kbdabear, and you don't have the money for a nationwide job search, that's one thing. None of these people seemed like they were in that situation. Good luck.

Keep on keepin' on, Oregon.

Posted by: Dack Thrombosis at July 03, 2010 11:16 PM (P33XN)

76

I hate jumping on the kooky bandwagon but it really bothers me that so many trends are coming together.

Jump away. I think the economic crisis was deliberate so the elites can permanently force down wages. Throw in the healthcare bill and amnesty and you've got a recipe for a return to serfdom that the Gilded Age tycoons could only dream about.

Posted by: Dack Thrombosis at July 03, 2010 11:27 PM (P33XN)

77 Hey, Everybody Who Sat Out The Election, Saying, "Let's Teach That Dumb Old GOP A Lesson":

How's that workin' out for ya?

I'm going to start a new TV show called "America's Dumbest Dumbfucks".  It'll just be a camera pointed at downtown Portland

Much-needed laugh after reading this thread. 

Posted by: Filly at July 04, 2010 12:03 AM (CNG84)

78 It's pretty scary out there and I suspect the Obamites like it that way. It's so much easier to deal with a small number of massive corporate entities than pesky SMBs and their pesky diverse interests.

That's what makes me laugh at the lefties who scream about republicans who are in bed with the big bad corporations. Yet those corporations love the big government who hands them contracts, and enacts regulations to kill their upstart competition.


Posted by: kbdabear at July 04, 2010 12:10 AM (sYxEE)

79 I have to ask this, do the DEMS in power WANT to be VOTED OUT in a landslide. They cant blame Bush for this anymore, it has been two years of Obama and 4 years of Reid and Pelosi. things are just getting worse not better. Not only that I went to my The website for mu Alma Maters news paper and most of the comment on the opinion articles are from mindless leftists is just plain disappointment. The call Pres. Obama for a "sellout" for continuing the Bush policies and not following his promises. Rolling Stone was trashing the Obama stimulus and bank Bailout, and the HC reform for being a big business hand out.
If a leftist rag that had a cover of him with a  glowing halo months before is trashing him something is WRONG in Liberalland.

Here is the truth Obama got into office to feed his own ego and self indulgences. That Chicago Olympic Bid was nothing more than an attempt to help make his Chicago Cronies rich on IOC money. That was one of the reason Chi-town got voted down in the 1st round the IOC looked at that and thought this is just another Athens 2004 all over again, that on Brazil had titties.

We are going to have a whole huge section of Gen Y and younger who are going to be disillusioned on politics, the government and Democrat Policies and will be what brings the GOP back to power. Expect to see the second coming of Ronald Reagan come 2012.

Posted by: Gary B at July 04, 2010 12:13 AM (1gWfF)

80 It's pretty scary out there and I suspect the Obamites like it that way. It's so much easier to deal with a small number of massive corporate entities than pesky SMBs and their pesky diverse interests.

What most people don't know or understand, especially politicians, is that the big companies can't function without the vast network of small and medium sized businesses that are their vendors. Take the automakers for instance. They slap them together at the assembly plants and market them, but they don't make one part in house. Hundreds and thousands of other businesses make and transport those parts that the UAW fatasses bolt together at the final assembly point. Then they go out the door to thousands of dealerships. Use the same example for your Kellogg's Rice Krispies, Coca Cola, your computer, your I-phone, etc

When many of these feeder businesses go under, how do they replace them? It's not like you can start up a plastic console factory in a week

Posted by: kbdabear at July 04, 2010 12:19 AM (sYxEE)

81 Yup, they're totally completely compassionate until it affects their bottom line. Then it's all FYNQ. Posted by: alexthechick at July 04, 2010 01:03 AM (thJ0V) I have worked for lib firms just like that. The second a woman gets pregnant they find some excuse to fire her.

Posted by: theCork at July 04, 2010 01:14 AM (UHrcQ)

82 Posted by: John Galt at July 04, 2010 01:09 AM (80GjT)

This.

I can't tell you how prevalent this attitude is in the small business world - not just the gloom, but the determination and amazing hard work that preceded it.

You want to see the future of small business? Look at construction. Apart from government projects, construction had essentially died in the West. Go online and search for jobs in another category. Then look in construction.

There really aren't words for me to describe how I feel about a useless, self-righteous politician who parties every weekend and plays golf every other weekend, who then looks at a small businessman who works 18 hours a day 6-7 days a week for 20 years and that work supports his own family and the family of 30-100 people who work with him, and that useless politician says "that fellow just has too darned much money."

The damage that's been done since the Dems took Congress (and before) is more than can be undone in 4 or even 8 years. It's going to take a generation to fix this crap ASSUMING people, really and seriously, get their heads out of their asses and stop voting for people who either don't understand or don't approve of those things that are needed to make an economy actually work.

Posted by: Merovign, Strong On His Mountain at July 04, 2010 01:28 AM (bxiXv)

83 #80

Remember, a few years ago there were some pundits talking about a permanent GOP majority. And the GOP was buying into it, believing they could do anything they wanted. The Dems are no less arrogant and clueless. They're just breaking stuff faster than Bush did. The difference is that the Bush folks had bad ideas about how to preserve the nation and fix some of the world, while the Obamites figure they can only get the strange abstract goals they desire by breaking everything.

The Mob used to do a good job of keeping the Marxist influence on the unions to a minimum. They didn't want to break the business, just carve out a slice for themselves. But we got pretty good at busting the Mob in the 70s and the Marxist got full control of the unions.

#81

The problem is that scarcely anyone in the administration has any notable experience outside of politics and academia, for whom those fields are largely interchangeable. They think it's no big deal if GM's suppliers get bought out by GM, using taxpayer supplied funds, and just make GM into a massively tentacled end to end operation that cannot do anything right at any level.

After all, that is how they view the growth goals of the federal system and that is working great as far as they care.

Posted by: epobirs at July 04, 2010 01:30 AM (fovfD)

84 The problem is that scarcely anyone in the administration has any notable experience outside of politics and academia, for whom those fields are largely interchangeable. They think it's no big deal if GM's suppliers get bought out by GM, using taxpayer supplied funds, and just make GM into a massively tentacled end to end operation that cannot do anything right at any level.

Basically, politicians like your average juiceboxer think along the lines of electricity is made at the socket in the wall. They have no concept nor concern about what it takes to put a bowl of cereal on the table or how their text message is delivered. That's the line of thinking of idiots who say that we can all afford a 25 cent gas tax, and everyone will just drive less. They have no concept of how that rise in energy costs has to be added to every level from cornfield to cornflakes. We've got loads of elitists, politicians, and juiceboxers who don't even go to the store themselves to buy the goods.

But somehow they know that business is evil (except their own) and must be controlled and regulated by a supposedly benevolent, brilliant, and competent government.

Posted by: kbdabear at July 04, 2010 01:57 AM (sYxEE)

85 The Oregon VAT tax thing was mentioned earlier, and I know jugears has mentioned it.

I cannot, for the life of me, understand how anyone who advocates a VAT tax is not tried and exiled from the country.

Seriously, short of randomly shooting consumers and businesspeople, what could you do that's worse for the economy? Penny for penny, it's the most costly and destructive form to tax short of a targeted confiscation of tools or plant & equipment. Highest compliance cost, affects prices of all goods and services, regressive - an idea that is in its existence proof that the insane run free among us.

I have not had anyone try to defend the idea to me for more than 30 seconds. Generally speaking they admit by the end of that time that they had no idea how it worked.

It's not just the taxes, which may get refunded several times in the supply chain - it's the compliance costs, which do not. Those all end up on the consumer. But to bureaucrats, such things do not exist - that's why they think businesses pay taxes - they don't, they collect taxes. It's a ridiculous fiction that allows politicians and bureaucrats to "harumph" and slap each other on the back for opposing "big business" while the lash falls on the consumer.

Hot-button issue.

Posted by: Merovign, Strong On His Mountain at July 04, 2010 02:19 AM (bxiXv)

86 #86

I first encountered VAT while reading UK computer mags in the 80s. It made it baffling to figure out what Brits were paying for their gear and software. The exchange rate on the prices was simple enough but the writers tended to make everything sound far more costly than it should be.

This lead to some interesting differences in their computer game market. Compilations, in which several games first released six months to a year earlier, and perhaps having a theme or publisher in common, were very popular while being almost unknown here. At least, until imports became a major factor in sales of Atari ST and Commodore Amiga games in the US. Compilations would reach top ten status on the sales charts overseas because the prices after VAT were so severe. Far better to give it a few months and get half a dozen games for the same price.

After VAT became understood, it became easier to understand how Brits who seemed to make good incomes could have such lower standards of living.

Posted by: epobirs at July 04, 2010 03:01 AM (fovfD)

87

What most people don't know or understand, especially politicians, is that the big companies can't function without the vast network of small and medium sized businesses that are their vendors. Take the automakers for instance. They slap them together at the assembly plants and market them, but they don't make one part in house.

Bad example, I know automakers well.

There are several sub-assemblies like door panels or even seats that are made by sub-contractors but the bulk of car parts are made by the auto companies.

Axles, transmissions, engines even most electronics are made in house.

Posted by: gdonovan at July 04, 2010 03:38 AM (vjt6a)

88 I cannot, for the life of me, understand how anyone who advocates a VAT tax is not tried and exiled from the country.

Yes Democraps love a VAT. That is because they never met a tax they didn't love. You see at heart all Democrats are actually Communists.  The higher the tax and the higher the government outlay the closer to communism we are.

They like to sneak these things in a little bit at a time. They also like to disguise it as a "fairer tax". Here in SC they passed a State law that said local municipalities could pass an increase in sales tax. This was touted as a way to relieve the property tax burden.

So what happens after that. The counties all jumped on the band wagon and said "lo, we will reduce your property tax if you agree to pass this "Local Option Sales Tax". So they added a penny (sounds low right) to the sales tax and reduced the property tax on the average 1500 ft2 house by $30.00. Never mind that that "penny" probably cost the average family 50 - 100 dollars. The next year the property tax went back up on that same 1500 ft2 house by about $100 and has continued to go up every year (yes even with values declining).

Meanwhile the cities have jumped on the bandwagon as well. They are enacting these "local option sales taxes" as fast as they can get them out the door.  They advertise them as "tax reduction" and gullible idiots vote for it.

The secret is that government will NEVER replace a tax with another that is more "fair". Any new tax is always an add on.

Taxes are like the law of gravity in reverse.  They always go up until the people have finally had a belly full and they start hanging politicians from lamp posts.

Posted by: Vic at July 04, 2010 04:12 AM (6taRI)

89 Where is the Sunday Monty book thread?

I guess Monty is all tired out from carrying the ball until late afternoon yesterday.

I am surprised the house is still standing from a "late war of 1861" thread. I did yard work yesterday but would have been glad to jump in to a thread except that one.

That topic is always an invitation to a flame war. You may as well just go ahead and open with the title "flame war".

Posted by: Vic at July 04, 2010 04:16 AM (6taRI)

90

Here it is folks. Happy Birthday to us

..oh..and fuck Obama

When in the Course of human events it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation

( If Texas secedes ...yee-haw..here I come. I could never be a Cowboys fan, though)

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. — That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, — That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security. — Such has been the patient sufferance of these Colonies; and such is now the necessity which constrains them to alter their former Systems of Government. The history of the present King of Great Britain is a history of repeated injuries and usurpations, all having in direct object the establishment of an absolute Tyranny over these States. To prove this, let Facts be submitted to a candid world.

He has refused his Assent to Laws, the most wholesome and necessary for the public good.

He has forbidden his Governors to pass Laws of immediate and pressing importance, unless suspended in their operation till his Assent should be obtained; and when so suspended, he has utterly neglected to attend to them.

(AZ anyone??)

He has refused to pass other Laws for the accommodation of large districts of people, unless those people would relinquish the right of Representation in the Legislature, a right inestimable to them and formidable to tyrants only.

(Strong arm legislative tactics..)

He has called together legislative bodies at places unusual, uncomfortable, and distant from the depository of their Public Records, for the sole purpose of fatiguing them into compliance with his measures.

(Like holding up votes until the eve of a holiday??)

He has dissolved Representative Houses repeatedly, for opposing with manly firmness his invasions on the rights of the people.

He has refused for a long time, after such dissolutions, to cause others to be elected, whereby the Legislative Powers, incapable of Annihilation, have returned to the People at large for their exercise; the State remaining in the mean time exposed to all the dangers of invasion from without, and convulsions within.

He has endeavoured to prevent the population of these States; for that purpose obstructing the Laws for Naturalization of Foreigners; refusing to pass others to encourage their migrations hither, and raising the conditions of new Appropriations of Lands.

He has obstructed the Administration of Justice by refusing his Assent to Laws for establishing Judiciary Powers.

He has made Judges dependent on his Will alone for the tenure of their offices, and the amount and payment of their salaries.

He has erected a multitude of New Offices, and sent hither swarms of Officers to harass our people and eat out their substance.

He has kept among us, in times of peace, Standing Armies without the Consent of our legislatures.

He has affected to render the Military independent of and superior to the Civil Power.

He has combined with others to subject us to a jurisdiction foreign to our constitution, and unacknowledged by our laws; giving his Assent to their Acts of pretended Legislation:

For quartering large bodies of armed troops among us:

For protecting them, by a mock Trial from punishment for any Murders which they should commit on the Inhabitants of these States:

For cutting off our Trade with all parts of the world:

For imposing Taxes on us without our Consent:

For depriving us in many cases, of the benefit of Trial by Jury:

For transporting us beyond Seas to be tried for pretended offences:

For abolishing the free System of English Laws in a neighbouring Province, establishing therein an Arbitrary government, and enlarging its Boundaries so as to render it at once an example and fit instrument for introducing the same absolute rule into these Colonies

For taking away our Charters, abolishing our most valuable Laws and altering fundamentally the Forms of our Governments:

For suspending our own Legislatures, and declaring themselves invested with power to legislate for us in all cases whatsoever.

He has abdicated Government here, by declaring us out of his Protection and waging War against us.

He has plundered our seas, ravaged our coasts, burnt our towns, and destroyed the lives of our people.

He is at this time transporting large Armies of foreign Mercenaries to compleat the works of death, desolation, and tyranny, already begun with circumstances of Cruelty & Perfidy scarcely paralleled in the most barbarous ages, and totally unworthy the Head of a civilized nation.

He has constrained our fellow Citizens taken Captive on the high Seas to bear Arms against their Country, to become the executioners of their friends and Brethren, or to fall themselves by their Hands.

He has excited domestic insurrections amongst us, and has endeavoured to bring on the inhabitants of our frontiers, the merciless Indian Savages whose known rule of warfare, is an undistinguished destruction of all ages, sexes and conditions.

In every stage of these Oppressions We have Petitioned for Redress in the most humble terms: Our repeated Petitions have been answered only by repeated injury. A Prince, whose character is thus marked by every act which may define a Tyrant, is unfit to be the ruler of a free people.

Nor have We been wanting in attentions to our British brethren. We have warned them from time to time of attempts by their legislature to extend an unwarrantable jurisdiction over us. We have reminded them of the circumstances of our emigration and settlement here. We have appealed to their native justice and magnanimity, and we have conjured them by the ties of our common kindred to disavow these usurpations, which would inevitably interrupt our connections and correspondence. They too have been deaf to the voice of justice and of consanguinity. We must, therefore, acquiesce in the necessity, which denounces our Separation, and hold them, as we hold the rest of mankind, Enemies in War, in Peace Friends.

We, therefore, the Representatives of the united States of America, in General Congress, Assembled, appealing to the Supreme Judge of the world for the rectitude of our intentions, do, in the Name, and by Authority of the good People of these Colonies, solemnly publish and declare, That these united Colonies are, and of Right ought to be Free and Independent States, that they are Absolved from all Allegiance to the British Crown, and that all political connection between them and the State of Great Britain, is and ought to be totally dissolved; and that as Free and Independent States, they have full Power to levy War, conclude Peace, contract Alliances, establish Commerce, and to do all other Acts and Things which Independent States may of right do. — And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of Divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our Lives, our Fortunes, and our sacred Honor

Posted by: Bubble Ba'athist at July 04, 2010 04:25 AM (AnTyA)

91 Good morning, Gentlemen. Consider beginning this day with some real American music. Extra credit if you can name the tune I turned 21 in prison doing life without parole Think I'll walk off my steady job today Good stop doing wrong, and start doing right I'm personally 2 for 3. youtube and turn it up

Posted by: Asscheeks of Saturn at July 04, 2010 04:34 AM (w9bVp)

92 A good rule of thumb I've used over the years as a gauge to the economy is to go to the mall and see how many "lifestyle" shops are open. Not the anchor stores like Sears or the shoe stores or jewelry places, but the small shops that sell stuff like novelty cookies, or high-end board and card games, or touristy knickknacks. Most of these kinds of stores in our mall are long gone. What that tells me is that people aren't spending money on frivolous shit. The crowds in local restaurants also seem to be tailing off. Friday nights at a place like Applebee's or Chili's would mean a 30 minute wait; now you can right in and sit down. Meaning: the locals aren't eating out as much. I had to have some repairs done on my driveway. In years past contractors wouldn't even give me the time of day for a piddling little job like that. This time, I got five different bids. The big contractors are taking the smaller jobs and pushing the smaller guys out as the commercial building market withers. (There is still a lot of bad news coming out about Commercial Real Estate, or CRE, mark my words.) Residential building permits in my area are way down from last year as well. One of our three big car-washes in town closed its doors not long ago. In the older part of downtown, I've seen a couple of antique shops and a locally-owned women's clothing store go under in the past year. I live in a reasonably prosperous area, and if things are that bad here, I can only imagine how hard they are in more depressed areas. I'm not gloomy because I want to be, folks. I'm gloomy about the economy because I don't see much occasion for cheer.

Posted by: Monty at July 04, 2010 04:54 AM (jM/Et)

93

No suprise there.. it's a step toward making everybody  a "Goverment Dependent"... You cannot have your old job you have to take the new "goverment job" which might be the same as your old job.. example Thad Allen Coast guard admiral  two days ago .. Today he is Mister Allen in a suit ... same job still working for the Goverment.But at MUCH higher pay and collecting a fat Military pension...And yet the oil flows. The Goverment has nearly Killed the whole Gulf and millions of Jobs.... What if I gave a Gun and a bus ticket D.C to everybody who has lost a job under the current adminstration .. I guess an ARMY of sorts would be hanging around the White house waiting for the "domestic enemy" that has cost them their Way of life.  That is 73 thousand  bodies from Michigan alone .(. 1/2 of whats in Afganistan right now) add about  1 million of Pissed off  Southerners from FL  ALA and LA . Add the People in Arizona, Texas and what do you have . A new Goverment... November is comming ... Vote them out .. if they decide not to have an election like they decided not to have a Budget this year.. Get ready!!! Buy Bullets,  some chickens that lay eggs, move near a water source. put on your helmet and vest...Buy alot more books. plant a garden. Before WE become a Communist state Blood will be spilled.And the Liberals will not be able to lie their way out of truth, the country is the proof.. They ran it into the ground and want you to believe it because there was not enough taxes?... The Pelosi Monster believes that Unemployment makes jobs.? Frank and Rangle Believe you can spend you way out of debt?  LIES. LIES LIES... Common sense will prevail !!!! Pray hard....and VOTE  in every election to toss the incumbents OUT !!!!

Posted by: Dw Pepper at July 04, 2010 04:57 AM (kNvMN)

94 A good rule of thumb I've used over the years as a gauge to the economy is to go to the mall and see how many "lifestyle" shops are open.

LOL, that is close to the Neil Cavuto method Monty. The only difference is he doesn't even go inside. Just count the cars in the parking lots of the malls and restaurants.

After all, if there is 2 hour wait at the local Outback after 5 pm the economy can't be too bad.


Posted by: Vic at July 04, 2010 05:04 AM (6taRI)

95 Remember that article posted here some time ago about college grads unable to find employment? They live in Oregon. Funny thing was, most of them didn't seem to be looking for work outside of Oregon. That's an interesting thing - Oregon traditionally gets hammered by recessions, and equally traditionally there is a big outmigration from the state when a recession occurs. Not this time - Oregon has pretty rich unemployment benefits, and a host of other social services (I think we are #1 in the proportion of the population signed up for food stamps - the state spends a lot of money on "outreach" to make sure every last person is signed up for them), so I think we have finally achieved the liberal nirvana of a unemployed class that does well enough unemployed that they don't look for work elsewhere. The Portland paper had an article about Bend, which had a gigantic housing bubble and now has terrible unemployment, chirpily stating that although nobody has a job, at least it's wonderful that no one is leaving. This in an area that even if the economy improves, is never going to replicate the housing bubble and all the jobs that come with that. People need to leave, but we fixed it so they don't have to!

Posted by: Oregon Is Dumber Than Dirt at July 04, 2010 05:15 AM (Hu/Da)

96 "Good morning, Gentlemen. Consider beginning this day with some real American music. Extra credit if you can name the tune I turned 21 in prison doing life without parole " Mama Tried, by the Grateful Dead. Oh, you mean someone else did the song before the Dead did?

Posted by: Oregon Is Dumber Than Dirt at July 04, 2010 05:20 AM (Hu/Da)

97 A friend's daughter was whining recently that the awful, evil Republicans voted against extending her unemployment benefits.  And therein lies the problem.  Too many Americans can't see beyond what they can get for "free" from the gubbmint.  They don't link the unemployment numbers on what the Democrats' policies have done to emasculate American business and entrepreneurship. 

(By the way, wasn't Obutthead's Stimulus Bill supposed to give my friend's daughter a job?)

Posted by: Reiver at July 04, 2010 05:25 AM (Wo9tn)

98 What's especially irritating is that we will have had two years of Democrats and MFMers screaming about how Bush is responsible for the bad economy and how we can't blame Democrats or Obama for anything...

...but if the GOP takes control, the MFM will immediately insist that the Republicans are now responsible for everything that happens starting on election night.

So, regardless of anything, the Democrats will never be held responsible for anything.

Posted by: Kensington at July 04, 2010 05:47 AM (aDdAT)

99 And then they will immediately start the drumbeat of giving Congress back to the Democrats in '12 (and re-electing Obama) so that they can fix what the GOP has screwed up.

Posted by: Kensington at July 04, 2010 05:48 AM (aDdAT)

100 99 So, regardless of anything, the Democrats will never be held responsible for anything.

Not entirely true.  The MFM says Obumma is responsible for the turnaround in the war in Iraq.

Posted by: Reiver at July 04, 2010 05:50 AM (Wo9tn)

101 @27, my sister recently lost her job.  Her husband still makes decent money, but she is pretty despondent about her own lack of income.

Know what she did to "cheer herself up?"  Got an iPhone.

Things are not always as they appear to be.  Depressed people buy gadgets, go to the movies, anything to distract from the harsh reality that they face.

Posted by: Parousia at July 04, 2010 05:56 AM (Jn0xQ)

102 The middle 20 or 30 percent that count know what Obama has done.  The stupid party will believe that they won in November, not realizing that the voters have merely decided that the evil party needs to go.

If there were an option to kick ALL of Washington out, permanently, I promise you it would win in a landslide. 

Posted by: MarkD at July 04, 2010 05:57 AM (YhZfg)

103 Our only hope is to kick the fuckers that are prolonging this recession out of office, and soon.  Before they usher in another true depression.  Their policies of raising taxes and spending like mad will ruin us.

Thanks again, you fucking idiot 52%ers.  May you rot.

Posted by: Festive Protrudence at July 04, 2010 06:34 AM (uSTYi)

104 What really kills me is I still see idiots driving around with Obamessiah stickers.  I think the country's been afflicted by a horrible brain-disabling disease.  Stupid fuckers.

Posted by: Festive Protrudence at July 04, 2010 06:35 AM (uSTYi)

105 I just saw Paul Krugman on "This Week" and he said there is "...not one iota of evidence that that is true." in responding to the assertion that the administration's policies are making businesses too uneasy about an uncertain tax and regulatory future to grow, expand, hire, etc. Of course, immediately after the show he was wrestled to the floor and administered his usual post-appearance coctail of anti-psychotic medications. I wish he would just appear on the panel in a straitjacket and be done with it. It would defuse my overwhelming urge to beat him to death with his nobel prize every time he opens his mouth.

Posted by: er at July 04, 2010 06:36 AM (pDP4H)

106 At the small business that I just left (much better opportunity), they actually ran things well from a financial point of view. Orders have been soft for a year and a half, but it turns out that their particular market has been oversaturated with suppliers for a very long time. In good times, anyone can make money. Well, those times are over and it was interesting to watch as the people who were really bad at business started to fail. And as they failed, their business went to... us, because we were the best. One of the big reasons they were failing was because their own mismanagement meant that they lived and died on credit. Bank refuses to extend them again and they're done.

So yes, business are going under, but I'm guessing that right about now we're seeing the business that were very poorly managed finally hitting the "no credit extension" wall. That's what's putting them out. And that's exactly what should happen. The business they WERE managing to do will now go to other firms that didn't make the same mistakes. Those good firm's business will pick up accordingly.

Posted by: mr.frakypants at July 04, 2010 06:38 AM (pffBj)

107 Before they usher in another true depression.


Before??????

Posted by: Vic at July 04, 2010 06:45 AM (6taRI)

108

Despite being morons, we have to face facts. Obama and the Dems fucked us hard, and we'll stay fucked for at least a decade. Grab a shovel or it will get worse. We have to drastically shift political power in Washington. Get busy. We have to loosen regulations and free up small business credit ASAP. We have to cut taxes on small business. We MUST dismantle Obamacare--fear of that monstrosity has cost us a million jobs at least. We have to cut entitlement spending. Kiss your social security good by. Kiss retirement good by. We've let the assholes in DC destroy our financial future and probably our kids' as well.Let's see if we can save our grandkids. Happy 4th. Grab a shovel. Tomorrow we start diggig out.

Posted by: Old Dad at July 04, 2010 06:55 AM (LBXax)

109

Lots of people around here are going back to the barter system for things when they can, goods and services -- it's a shame that system got completely trashed by modern society, because it does have its advantages (just none for big nanny state though, hence wrecking it).

Given my employment woes, it has helped me provide a bit, so I don't feel like I'm letting my family down completely.

Posted by: unknown jane at July 04, 2010 07:07 AM (5/yRG)

110

111 Well, that's the spirit -- unfortunately there seem to be more than enough people who don't want to dig at all or are afraid that they'll get blisters or want to tell people how to dig but not dig themselves.

I kinda figured that we'd snap out of this at some point -- but it indeed looks as though we as a nation are just stubbornly in denial enough to have to hit absolute rock bottom before we finally wake up and realize what's happened.

Posted by: unknown jane at July 04, 2010 07:19 AM (5/yRG)

111 The problem is not really Obama, much as some might like it to be. He's no more or less incompetent than those who came before or will come after. The problem is that the economy as we see it, is dying. Dying because all it has been built upon recently is corrupt Financial Services, an artificial housing bubble, and un-affordable public sector employment. China makes stuff --- The USA consumes stuff someone else makes, on other people's money, because it can't afford to pay for its inflated and unsustainable lifestyle. That lifestyle is going ------- Down. No that the money tree has withered away, the rest MUST collapse. Sooner or later. That the Republicans have even fewer good ideas than the current runners of the 'system' is just depressing. Does anyone really think that things will get better if Republicans control Congress or the Presidency ? I don't.

Posted by: Dougf at July 04, 2010 07:21 AM (HkgIR)

112 107, the bumper stickers still run strong in my town too.  Whenever  I see a car with one, I can't fucking believe it.  I used to flip off every single one, now I've calmed down a little and flip off about every other one.  I actually accelerate my car to flip off the Obummer sticker cars that have passed me. 

Posted by: Learflyer at July 04, 2010 07:25 AM (5aVOy)

113 78 Hey, Everybody Who Sat Out The Election, Saying, "Let's Teach That Dumb Old GOP A Lesson":

How's that workin' out for ya?

Posted by: Filly at July 04, 2010 04:03 AM (CNG84)

That you, 'bamapachyderm?  (The stupid Bint that supported Juan McShamnesty getting the nomination over any of half-dozen more qualified candidates?

Posted by: Festive Protrudence at July 04, 2010 07:32 AM (uSTYi)

114

It certainly wouldn't hurt to have somebody in power who wouldn't tax property and small business owners to death.  Put in some tax laws that give the little guy a break and encourage him to start up business yet be sensible about it, and it would certainly help a lot.  Forget about the big, multi national corporations -- just the mid to small level businesses and farms.  It would help quite a bit.

Also wouldn't hurt to have somebody in power who cut some of these insane public sector salaries -- there is no need for some teacher or low level bean counter to be making some of the salaries with the benefits that they do.  Adjust to private sector comparable salaries/benefits, cut the overage of people in non-productive, make work jobs....and the politicians need to be added into that as well -- they are living entirely too high off the hog given the national situation.

And keep defense but cut some of the ridiculous pet, pork projects there -- hell, just get rid of pet pork projects period and entitlement spending needs to be brought under control.  Bring the hammer down on illegal immigration too.

I have serious doubts the Repubs will do anything but lip service...but it has to start somewhere, and the Dems aren't even going to give those ideas the time of day and Barry is the antithesis of all this, so...looks like I'm stuck with the Repubs, and blaming the jackass.

Posted by: unknown jane at July 04, 2010 07:33 AM (5/yRG)

115 114 The problem is not really Obama, much as some might like it to be. He's no more or less incompetent than those who came before or will come after.

...
No that the money tree has withered away, the rest MUST collapse. Sooner or later. That the Republicans have even fewer good ideas than the current runners of the 'system' is just depressing.
Does anyone really think that things will get better if Republicans control Congress or the Presidency ?

I don't.

Posted by: Dougf at July 04, 2010 11:21 AM (HkgIR)



Which congressmen are you listening to, troll?  I hear republicans day in and day out saying cut taxes before we destroy the rest of business.  Bachmann, Boehner, et all.  They unified several party-solid votes with a few dem cross-overs against the healthcare boon doggle and other bills.

But the majority of the democrat congress keeps shoving shit through like cap and trade fucking us even harder.

And you think leaving them in power is better?  FUCK YOU.

Go sell your bullshit at LGF.

Posted by: Festive Protrudence at July 04, 2010 07:39 AM (uSTYi)

116 Hmmmm.

"Hey, Everybody Who Sat Out The Election, Saying, "Let's Teach That Dumb Old GOP A Lesson":  How's that workin' out for ya?"

About the same as if John "Fuck you Conservatives" McCain had been elected.

How about you?  You voted for McCain.  He spent the last few years calling conservatives everything from racists to bigots to nativists to take your pick.  So how is that vote of yours doing for you?

How did you enjoy voting for a guy who loved pissing on you?

Taste great *and* less filling?  Enjoy that McCain Flavour?

Posted by: memomachine at July 04, 2010 07:45 AM (MwCol)

117 117

...

I have serious doubts the Repubs will do anything but lip service...but it has to start somewhere, and the Dems aren't even going to give those ideas the time of day and Barry is the antithesis of all this, so...looks like I'm stuck with the Repubs, and blaming the jackass.

Posted by: unknown jane at July 04, 2010 11:33 AM (5/yRG)


The key is to elect the correct republicans. Even McCain is acting all conservativey now that it's an election year. Count on him and those like him to do as they always do and turn back into democrats once they get a new lease on the office. The electorate needs to WAKE UP and pay attention to what these politicians actually do and how they actually vote, not just what they say and choose accordingly this year. We have no room for error, and you can on finding me out assisting campaigns with both donations and volunteer time.
http://thomas.loc.gov/

Unfortunately in some places some of the bastards will stay in, but we'll give them a hell of a run for their money.

Posted by: Festive Protrudence at July 04, 2010 07:52 AM (uSTYi)

118 How about you?  You voted for McCain.  He spent the last few years calling conservatives everything from racists to bigots to nativists to take your pick.  So how is that vote of yours doing for you?

Is this the same McCain that said white Americans were not physically capable of picking lettuce, not even for $100k a year? Did ya ever notice that the most vile anti-amarican racists always accuse others of it first.


I pulled the lever for Palin and wished McCain the shortest presidential term possible.

Posted by: Druid at July 04, 2010 08:05 AM (Oe01r)

119 I pulled the lever for Palin and wished McCain the shortest presidential term possible.

Posted by: Druid at July 04, 2010 12:05 PM (Oe01r)



Concur.  Had he not selected Palin as his running mate, I suspect he would have lost by alot more than 2%.

Posted by: Festive Protrudence at July 04, 2010 08:09 AM (uSTYi)

120 @47
Precisely, exactly the behavior of libtard businesses.

The Left-iest business in Wisconsin--whose female Presi-twink donated over $20K to our current Governor's campaigns--churns through IT people faster than Huey rotors churn through the air.

Average tenure is about 18 months and no, you don't get paid too much during that time.  Salaried, of course, so there's no overtime paid for your basic 70-hour week.

Posted by: dad29 at July 04, 2010 08:20 AM (T1YgM)

121 Concur.  Had he not selected Palin as his running mate, I suspect he would have lost by alot more than 2%.

I suspect he would have lost all 50 States if he had not picked Palin. Especially if he had chose Lieberman as a lot of rumors said he wanted to do.

Posted by: Vic at July 04, 2010 08:21 AM (6taRI)

122 #69 (epobirs): Thanks for the shout-out; these days, I mostly do large-scale IT systems reviews and also serve from time to time as an expert witness in litigation that involves computer technology.

As for the rest of the comments -- yeah, I'm pretty much afraid we've hit the apex of the dead-cat bounce and are on the way down again. I'm afraid it's going to be nasty for a few more years at least.  ..bruce..

Posted by: bfwebster at July 04, 2010 08:34 AM (AJKOh)

123 #114, the USA still makes lots of high end goods. I've been an engineer in small niche businesses for over thirty years. These small businesses are no longer around because of federals, state, and local governments actively work against us. In kalifornia regulations at the state level add 35-45% to the cost of goods made. Now add in the extra taxes at every level with skyrocketing worker comp and unemployment insurance. Why on earth would I want to open or expand a business?

No I will go to another state or country that works to help not hinder me in business.

Posted by: jukin at July 04, 2010 08:47 AM (vkkNZ)

124

I'm going to start a new TV show called "America's Dumbest Dumbfucks".  It'll just be a camera pointed at downtown Portland Sacramento.

FIFY

 

Reality check: As much as I hate the douchebags in Sacramento, I'll give Schwartzenkennedy a little credit that he's not letting the Assembly roll him on straight tax increases to fix the $19 BILLION state defecit. He's demanding cuts in spending and a lot of social services programs are getting whacked. And beliebe me bob, we've got a lot of them to whack as witnessed my the whining inthe SF Chronicle. The silver cloud may be that aftet the economy turn around, many of those social welfare (read as money for illegals) programs might not come back.

Posted by: Max Entropy at July 04, 2010 10:08 AM (7FgWm)

125 from Dougf The problem is not really Obama, much as some might like it to be. He's no more or less incompetent than those who came before or will come after. I disagree. The Obami have demonstrated their dangerous naivete in all facets of running this country. From their clueless approach to economics, to their overt coddling of our enemies and distancing themselves from our friends. I won't debate relative incompetence. Its pretty much impossible to measure. I will point out that political policies have ramifications, have long term impacts upon risks and threats; political and economic. Because of the Obami's policies, our friends are no longer sure we are a reliable partner. They are being swayed to pursue other alliances, which are not in our interests for them to pursue. What does commitment from America actually mean? Very little if you ask our friends. Very little. This is a new development courtesy of the Obami. Because of the Obami's financial policies, our debt is accumulating at heretofore unheard of levels. Whole industries ownership structures have been changed, to favor his political bedfellows. Whole industries are under vicious attack by this administration. While there definitely needs to be reform in some market regulation, and the MMS has to demand real testing of blowout preventers and other measures, hell, they need to demand proof that there are damned backup measures that work, in place and online, before they deploy drills. The backup issues are independent of the administration. The abject failure to bring foreign skimmers in for 75 days, due to the Obami not wanting to piss off the unions. The abject failure of the Obami led EPA to disallow non-99.999% purified water back into the gulf show an incompetence that is wholly and completely Obami. The problem is that the economy as we see it, is dying. Dying because all it has been built upon recently is corrupt Financial Services, an artificial housing bubble, and un-affordable public sector employment. China makes stuff --- The USA consumes stuff someone else makes, on other people's money, because it can't afford to pay for its inflated and unsustainable lifestyle. That lifestyle is going ------- Down. Ummm ... no. The implosion was due to a confluence of a bubble that had been building for decades finally collapsing, along with a financial industry seeking out high return investments in less regulated markets. Now the market is seeking the real valuation of the assets purchased in the bubble. As these valuations become more set, the assets, previously used to underwrite other debt have shrunk sufficiently in value that this has drastically negatively impacted bank capitalization. Which caused many to need to recapitalize. Those who couldn't were forced into a sale. The question is, who brought us this bubble? Was it the big evil banks? The evil wall street? Or the Obami fellow travelers in the late 90s writing laws that effectively demanded that anyone who wanted a mortgage should get a mortgage? Understand who to blame. No that the money tree has withered away, the It was never there. The money tree was an illusion. A democratic illusion. They like to believe that there is an infinite pile of money they can spend. Republicans don't. rest MUST collapse. Sooner or later. That the Republicans have even fewer good ideas than the current runners of the 'system' is just depressing. Does anyone really think that things will get better if Republicans control Congress or the Presidency ? What I believe is that we have to fire the party in charge, and any incumbents that we can. First fire the party in charge; get them the hell away from the purse strings. If your choice is between a new democrat and an old republican, go for the lesser of the evils. Which one is voting or will vote with the obvious evil of the Obami? That is the person who should not get elected. Second, make damn sure that the people we put in as our representatives will stop the Obami from damaging the country any more until we can get him out of there in 2012.

Posted by: kranky at July 04, 2010 10:15 AM (80GjT)

126 How about you?  You voted for McCain.  He spent the last few years calling conservatives everything from racists to bigots to nativists to take your pick.  So how is that vote of yours doing for you?

How did you enjoy voting for a guy who loved pissing on you?

Taste great *and* less filling?  Enjoy that McCain Flavour?

I don't enjoy any progressive flavor, nor did I enjoy either of the Presidential candidates I was offered.  I pulled the lever for Sarah Palin for Vice President in the general and Not McCain in the primaries.  McCain, who can otherwise go leap, was a nightmare of a candidate in many ways and cannot be trusted as a guardian of  conservative principles.  But unlike Obama, he doesn't actively hate his own country, and  I respect him because he is a veteran.

The point of my post is that the GOP, despite its "lesson," has not gotten its shit together at.  all., and in the meantime Obama is fucking over everyone in sight.  You can't vote in someone of his ilk and just hope that he does nothing but  admire his own reflection for four years.  The damage he's already done will take generations to undo, if it can be repaired at all.

Elections have consequences. 

Posted by: Filly at July 04, 2010 10:20 AM (CNG84)

127 Right now, all that is keeping 60 year old me in business is a need for health insurance - wife 2 years cancer surgery post-op and me needing two replacement hips and maybe a knee tune-up.  After having and paying for health insurance for 37 mostly healthy years, we'll be lucky if Ocare's rules don't lead to us being RIF'ed from plans.

We will need a RADical program starting in January to eviscerate the 'accomplishments' of the Fresh Prince of DC. RADical as in Repeal/Amend/Defund everything the Donks have put through.


Posted by: chuckR at July 04, 2010 10:29 AM (khYRZ)

128

How did you enjoy voting for a guy who loved pissing on you?
Oh, you mean Scott Brown? The guy with the limo, I mean pickup truck who took the Kennedys' family hierloom away. That bastard who actually wasn't afraid to be amongst the unwashed for days at a time?

Show me a poor Donk. As I used to tell my scumbag union..."Someday, I hope to be rich enough to be a Dem!".

Posted by: hutch1200 at July 04, 2010 10:38 AM (ZVEnR)

129 Sen. DeMint, South Carolina, please don't do me any favors by holding my coat as you have me and multitudes of unemployed be the ones sacrificed on your altar of fighting 'unpaid spending', your excuse for refusing to extend UI benefits. If I'm still alive by November, my voting for anything with an (R) may be as avoided as voting for anything with a (D), a pox on both their houses, for the likes of you.

Posted by: funemployed in hell and slipping lower at July 04, 2010 10:39 AM (2H/f8)

130 At least the Stinkulus kept unemployment from going over 8.2% right so that was kinda awesome.

Posted by: Lemmiwinks at July 04, 2010 10:46 AM (IqfKc)

131

funemployed in hell and slipping lower ...I'm witch youse!

 

Posted by: hutch1200 at July 04, 2010 10:47 AM (ZVEnR)

132 Hey, don't say bad things about Obama. He's got awesome abs.

Posted by: DU at July 04, 2010 10:48 AM (7FgWm)

133 As depicted in any zombie film, my moron cousins, please shoot me as soon as I turn hobo. It is better for everyone that way. Just shoot straight, y'bastads.

Posted by: funemployed in hell and slipping lower at July 04, 2010 10:53 AM (2H/f8)

134

Just shoot straight, y'bastads. ...you realize these morons shake in the am, and are drunk by noon.

My advice, start drinking heavily!

Posted by: hutch1200 at July 04, 2010 10:58 AM (ZVEnR)

135 So yes, business are going under, but I'm guessing that right about now we're seeing the business that were very poorly managed finally hitting the "no credit extension" wall. That's what's putting them out. And that's exactly what should happen.

Posted by: mr.frakypants at July 04, 2010 10:38 AM (pffBj)

You're about two years late for that trend. Most of the fat is gone, the meat is being consumed now.

Obviously YMMV with any given sector, but that's what I'm seeing.

Posted by: Merovign, Strong On His Mountain at July 04, 2010 11:41 AM (bxiXv)

136 # 80 Gary B I have to ask this, do the DEMS in power WANT to be VOTED OUT in a landslide. They cant blame Bush for this anymore, it has been two years of Obama and 4 years of Reid and Pelosi. things are just getting worse not better. How much confidence that they will allow a free, fair, and honest vote? Can you see any sign that they have any conception of the idea of being voted out? Any sign that they fear any reaction from the voters? Hound of the Baskervilles time. The dog that should be barking [politicians desperately pandering in the face of a pissed off constituents] is silent, except for doubling down on arrogance. Today is July 4. Honor the Day, and those who made it possible. Subotai Bahadur

Posted by: Subotai Bahadur at July 04, 2010 11:49 AM (7jYK+)

137 Kranky @ 128 Thanks for debating the idjit point by point. Very educational. I've gotten to the point that I no longer have the patience to do so. I see arguments like "evil banks!" and I instantly want to punch the fucker. As you say, it has nothing to do with investors that this shit storm hit. It has everything to do with government. (and specific elements in government)

Posted by: Festive Protrudence at July 04, 2010 12:05 PM (icame)

138 This recession started in the spring of 2007, a few months after Nancy Pelousy took the gavel, and it will continue until it is wrestled from her hands.    Things won't go on a fast track until mid-to-late 2012, IF businesses believe Barry won't get a second term.

Posted by: phreshone at July 04, 2010 01:42 PM (1AnxB)

139 Late to the thread. Good job, PA, as usual.

I have noticed the same things you have. It is horrible out here. And in right to work Idaho, employers are absolutely exploiting workers. Shit pay, under 10, no benefits, and an angry mob willing to take your job if you don't kiss bad management's ass.

In my 50 years, I have never seen anything like this. And to top it off, we have a bunch of clueless inmates running the asylum.  But, I have good news.

When the 30 million people out of work quit getting unemployment checks, officially our unemployment rate will be near zero. When the 40 million + people getting food stamps run out of food stamps and we run out of money- then officially Obama can say he stamped out hunger.

Posted by: Something Wicked This Way Comes... at July 04, 2010 03:12 PM (GOG1H)

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