I wonder if they have Hooter's in the Indian Ocean?

Just wonderin'.

I want to know the political makeup of those chowder heads calling for the prosecution of her parents for child endangerment.

Who are those people and what else do they believe?

People don't have enough guts and moxie

I'd agree with that sentiment generally.

Not in this situation though.

Sheer stupidity. And her parents? Well they're not parents.

I hate to be a wet blanket, but.......why am I supposed to be impressed with this girl's "feat"? Yeah, sure, it takes, guts, moxie, etc, but ....it's like those people who keep climbing Mt. Everest...it was cool the first 100 times, now it just seems like a pointless, selfish risk for no real gain.

Says the fat guy writing in his wife beater and on his 5th beer of the day.

I was first on the scene. 

 Pulled her out of the tumultuous current and 30 foot swells.  But when she told me she was 16 I threw her back in!

Washed up old hag...

I don't know -- isn't a gutsy life worth the risk?

Yes.

For adults that {theoretically} have the mental capacity to make that choice.

Regional beverage of choice:  Blenheim's #3 Ginger Ale.

Or Pennsylvania Dutch Birch Beer.

People don't have enough guts and moxie. That's what's different now. Some have it, but not as many who used to.

There is a difference between courage and foolhardiness.

Many people can't discern it these days. 

I offered the Coast Guard my Dirigible Hot Tub, but they turned down my assistence.  Muttering something about the Press Nightmare that would ensue if I was seen with anyone from the Government.

So I applied my own Brand of Moxie! 

 There was a little girl at stake.  Sacred Honor Complled me on! 

_{They should bring moxie back.  It was a great drink.}

Still made....in ct. I believe.

I have two daughters and would have said no because of the time of year. The indian ocean is at it's roughest this time of year and they had to know she would end up there now.

Better planning though and if one of my kids had come to me with the idea and we had enough money to make it as safe as possible I would have probably said yes.

Many people can't discern it these days. 

Yeppers.

Well, I am putting my health at risk, at least my liver...my safety, too, the bathroom is up a long, steep flight of steps!

Posted by: ace at June 11, 2010 05:56 PM (66DVY)

Call them what they are Ace.

Feminized PUSSIES!

At some point you seriously have to just back off and let people try to kill themselves, whether you personally think they're mentally capable enough or not. And I think 16 is plenty old enough.

Okay so then why the rescue?

Okay so then why the rescue?

Posted by: laceyunderalls at June 11, 2010 06:03 PM (pLTLS)

Oh I don't know. Maybe because it's the right thing to do? Are you saying we or anybody should withhold rescue because we don't agree with their personal risk assessment model.

Fuck that.

Ace, you just have hold a metaphorical gun to your head and do it.  I traveled Europe by myself twice, no one really knowing where I was much of the time, just buying a train ticket or not, and wandering.  Moved to California knowing no one.  (The drive there was..unforgettable.)  After my husband died, I moved again, knowing no one, packing up and driving my own self, plus two confused cats.

I don't necessarily recommend it, and I could have ended up dead in a ditch (I look back in amazement at just wandering, by myself, with no one kowing where I was), but it also let me know I can survive about anything.

Still... I don't know... one's life isn't just there to be long and comfortable. It's also there to be filled with experience.

Tough call I know.

That's why I began that with a pre-emptive cop out. Really, I just can't get upset at the family. She's obviously well trained. Fuck, I wouldn't have made it out of the slip much less the harbor.

I'd rather have more 16 year olds trying to sail around the world instead of rotting in front of a PS3.

Are you saying we or anybody should withhold rescue because we don't agree with their personal risk assessment model.

Uh, no.

Reading comprehension is your friend. Try it.

Someone made the assertion they think on some level we should let people do stupid shit that could ultimately kill them if they were so inclined.

I was merely pointing out that wasn't the case here as the authorities were doing everything they could to make sure she didn't kill herself.

Then again, I'm just a feminizied pussy!!!11elevently!!

You know what is really missing in modern society? I wouldn't say virtue per se. (I'd say virtue is fairly constant, or, let put it this way: Wickedness is fairly constant.)

People don't have enough guts and moxie. That's what's different now. Some have it, but not as many who used to.

We have a Moxie Deficit.

and your measurement of this is..................

and your proof of your theory is........

I compare this to other risks 16 year olds might engage in: Binge drinking, driving like idiots, binge drinking AND driving like idiots, "hooking up," etc.

Not saying this means she won't do any of that (people with a bit of recklnessness in them tend to be reckless in many ways), but, you know, in perspective: At least her parents knew precisely what risks she was taking in this two week period.

Two weeks is a LOOONG time for a 16 year old girl to go on a :   binge drinking secession, driving like idiots, binge drinking AND driving like idiots, "hooking up," etc.

Anything from opening and eating  a bad can of salmon to slipping  on a slick deck portion and breaking a femur... and then two weeks is a death sentence in sheer time alone.

Posted by: Barbarian at June 11, 2010 06:11 PM (EL+OC)

She had two locater beakons that she activated as soon as she got in trouble. That's how they found her.

_{I was merely pointing out that wasn't the case here as the authorities were doing everything they could to make sure she didn't kill herself.}

Why should we care about the welfare of the Search and Rescue people or the others in harms way of this same storm by choice of vocation or bad luck?

Fuck them.

She's a Little Girl...think of the Child!

Lacey is right.  The risk choice turned bad should not trump the calamity or emergency needs of others. 

Looks like I'm gonna lose $20.

Posted by: nevergiveup at June 11, 2010 06:15 PM (U5btG)

You can't, but evidently her boat did a pretty good job of it. When you say goodby to your 16 yo when they take off in their car for the first time how do you control a drunk driver killing them?

She is the Amelia Earhart of our time and I am proud of her courage and determination to do something like this.

Posted by: laceyunderalls at June 11, 2010 06:11 PM (pLTLS)

My reading comprehension is better than your ability to sting together a coherent thought, and then have to defend it.

You were arguing that if she is old enough to sail the world at 16, she is old enough not to be rescued.

I think you got caught in an idiotic statement and are now spinning.

56

At some point you seriously have to just back off and let people try to kill themselves, whether you personally think they're mentally capable enough or not. And I think 16 is plenty old enough.

Okay so then why the rescue?

You were arguing that if she is old enough to sail the world at 16, she is old enough not to be rescued.

Hey, Jim in San Diego, franks & beans baby. And yes, I have seen your baseball. And your red ear muffs.

Sorry you're a bit sloooooooow to comprehend that throwing out a hypothetical question is not the same thing as actually advocating a particular point one way or the other.

I'm all for people being allowed to do stupid things as long as their stupidity does not substantially endanger someone else not directly involved in the stupidity.  In this case, the girl's been trained and is an experienced sailor.  She was well equipped, and she had a support crew standing by.

Things of this nature either end with success and living until your next grand adventure or failure and death.  She's lucky to have survived her failure.

I applaud her moxie at 16 and her effort, but as a parent who wants my kids to outlive me...hell no! 

@7: "Who pays the cost of the rescue?"

No one, directly.  Taxpayers of whatever nation's military/owners of whatever private vessel make it to her.  Under most admiralty law, anyone who can respond to a mayday is under a duty to do so.  If her boat is towed, there would likely be a charge for that, though.

_{Scouts do it. Gun enthusiasts do it. Sailors do it, of course, with all their "The sea is a harsh mistress" stuff.}

Arrrgh...she be cruel and heartless wench!

Posted by: laceyunderalls at June 11, 2010 06:27 PM (pLTLS)

ace started it !!!!!!!!

Posted by: laceyunderalls at June 11, 2010 06:27 PM (pLTLS)

I havn't used it, where's my 5 bucks?

_{Oh and can I pay each of you $5 to quit using the word moxie?}

I'd say it takes Moxie to pronounce Anti-Semitism Dead!

Sorry you're a bit sloooooooow to comprehend that throwing out a hypothetical question is not the same thing as actually advocating a particular point one way or the other.

Posted by: feminized pussy laceyunderalls at June 11, 2010 06:22 PM (pLTLS)

OK, so you were actually advocating the opposite point than what you were stating? And you say I have a comprehension problem? Uhhh... yeah, sure.

Posted by: ace at June 11, 2010 05:55 PM (66DVY)

You have offended me.

No, I think it's a good word, and I think it's a necessary word.

For her, sure.

But we're getting into, 'hey I took a wicked dump. that took some moxie on my part' territory here.

If she rolled it in 30ft seas, didn't panic, and came out all chipper on the radio "in good spirits," she was obviously well-prepared and able to handle this challenge.  Heck of a kid.

_{Which of the following is the most dangerous?}

With the proper dosage of Valu-Rite, all can be subdued.

Progressives like Obama want to wrap all of us in cotton-wool.  They say its to protect us from bad things happening.  What it does is give the Progressives power over us while smothering us in a false sense of security.

I am glad Abby is alive and kinda safe.  Rescue can't get there fast enough.  She has spent twenty hours lost alone already.  While visiting the naval aviation museum in Pensacola recently, they had a display with a small inflateable life raft.  In 1942 a US Navy Devastator crew got lost and had to ditch in the vast South Pacific.  There could be no rescue mission since each carrier was precious.  Those three men survived in that raft for 43 days before being rescued.

Some may aruge Abby's parents endanger her, but they have also raised a strong daughter who will never quit.  Lets keep praying for her.

If a Boyscout wanders off or somehow gets separated would anyone here also demand that the parents or the scout be billed for the cost of the search and rescue?

I'm just curious.

Posted by: The Australian Taxpayers at June 11, 2010 06:34 PM (2+9Yx)

No problem. Oh and you're welcome for that whole not letting the Japanese kill your men and rape your women stuff.

Glad we could help.

The American Taxpayers.

OT - Six month moritorium on deep water drilling imposed as a knee jerk by Barry the Omnipotent of which he made note of support of petroleum experts accross the country...

well, as it turns out, he kind of made the support shit up.

If a Boyscout wanders off or somehow gets separated would anyone here also demand that the parents or the scout be billed for the cost of the search and rescue?

I'm just curious.

Yes!   They do in most states now if they can show the group disregarded warnings.  Think of the guys on Mt Washington, they billed them.

Were sailing around the world solo completely safe, it would be little different than a trip to Disneyland, just more expensive.

People do these things because they are not commonly done, difficult, and somewhat dangerous.

Yes!   They do in most states now if they can show the group disregarded warnings.  Think of the guys on Mt Washington, they billed them.

Posted by: The Australian Taxpayers at June 11, 2010 06:37 PM (2+9Yx)

What warnings? The guys on Mt Washington were, in my mind, a special case of reckless dissregard. No official said not to sail right now to Ms Moxy.

Posted by: s'moron at June 11, 2010 06:28 PM (UaxA0)

Watch it!  I don't think Pervyness is exclusive to a few groups.  Unless you make Perv a noun.

Bottom line is, parents did a proper job of preparing this kid for the journey.   

You "oh, my god, the ocean" people would have a point if they just told her to have a nice time and stay away Aruba psychos.  But she was well prepared.

Just like me when my dad bought me a shotgun when I was 12.

Also, typically, ocean sailing is as boring as boring can be.  Imagine driving across the country at 10 miles per hour... and having nothing to look at. 

_{Posted by: Dang Straights at June 11, 2010 06:41 PM (fx8sm)}

Every State in the Union, these days. 

Posted by: Jane D'oh at June 11, 2010 06:43 PM (UOM4

The whole point is NOT to port on most of these round the world trips. If you could port and kick back and resupply for a few days, it would be a whole lot less challenging. It's a straight blast with no land stops.

Also, typically, ocean sailing is as boring as boring can be.  Imagine driving across the country at 10 miles per hour... and having nothing to look at. 

Posted by: rdbrewer at June 11, 2010 06:45 PM (Bw2WZ)

I disagree with you there. I have only made one long passage which was from Ft. Lauderdale to St. Thomas, about 1,500 miles. It was anything but boring.

_{Watch it!  I don't think Pervyness is exclusive to a few groups.  Unless you make Perv a noun.}

I was Elk hunting with a buddy one morning and when I asked him why he didn't bring his son (14) he said, "He's out Huntin' with his Scoutmaster and Pastor.".

Poor kid.

No problem. Oh and you're welcome for that whole not letting the Japanese kill your men and rape your women stuff.

Glad we could help.

The American Taxpayers.

Posted by: robtr at June 11, 2010 06:36 PM (fwSHf)

They must not teach you Yanks history, the Japs never came close to our country, and oh, by the way you might think a thank you for letting your folks station here for fives might be in order.

You can also thank us too for helping you kills those VC gooks, remember that?

Have another Fosters, the shrimps on the barbee.

I find the sea to be like a beatiful woman:

You could make money as a straight-man.

Posted by: rdbrewer at June 11, 2010 06:50 PM (Bw2WZ)

Well we had all kinds about a week of perfect sailing weather, 3 days of white knuckle storms followed by 3 days of being becalmed. There is alot to see though, just the sky alone at night with no other light interference is worth the trip. There is plenty to keep you busy though.

I had just bought the boat and the aux. diesal quit working about 300 miles out of the bahama's so it turned into sail only trip.

If dad is pushing the kids for his own ego, like ballon-boy dad, then its too dangerous and risky of a thing to push on a kid. 

On the otherhand, if kid wants to emulate dad and the brother, and has a deep passion for a challenge like this, then as a parent I am inclined not to encourage, or at least not stifle, that desire.  I agree with Acet hat such 'moxie' is lost in the current set of iTuned, take my profile pic, look at me generation currently in high-school.  In fact, my 16 year oldisnt getting her drivers license until well after her birthday because she just wasn't worldly enough to navigate the vast expanses of our 50,000 person town.  

They must not teach you Yanks history, the Japs never came close to our country, and oh, by the way you might think a thank you for letting your folks station here for fives might be in order.

You can also thank us too for helping you kills those VC gooks, remember that?

Have another Fosters, the shrimps on the barbee.

Posted by: The Australian Taxpayers at June 11, 2010 06:53 PM (2+9Yx)

You don't suppose the American Navy and Marines had anything to do with that do you? And yeah, I do salute you and your country for showing up and fighting bravely in Vietnam.

Posted by: Jane D'oh at June 11, 2010 06:51 PM (UOM4

Could be. No arguments from me on that one. I don't know if her problems were seamanship or equipment. Sometimes thing just break and you have to make do. Also, the expense of a properly outfitted 'round the world vessel is considerable. I would say the minimum is over a quarter of a million and more typical is closer to a million. Those limitations sometimes tempt people to skimp on expensive but necessary equipment. That could have been her problem too.

"You could make money as a straight-man."

Thanks...I think.

_{I think she has a major pair}

are you saying she's not a girl at all, then?

Posted by: ace at June 11, 2010 06:45 PM (66DVY)

I admire this girl's moxie, because she combined it with preparation, training and proper equipment.  Like I admire Richard Branson's moxie, and Steve Fossett's -- even if the latter's adventuring ended badly, he took calculated risks in an intelligent and very brave manner.

I don't admire the moxie of Christoper McCandless, because he just hiked into the Alaskan wilderness with little more than an infinite faith in his own instincts.  Not that I was glad that he starved to death when surrounded by abundant food, but it wasn't an unexpected outcome.

Funny, in light of my feelings about McCandless, that I should also admire the moxie of the World's Greatest Daredevil as depicted in The Kentucky Fried Movie -- you know, the guy who walked into a biker bar and shouted, "Hey!  All you pussy bikers SUCK!"

World Cup Update -

Score : Not Likely

Teams Playing : Who Cares

That is all.

_{That's great.  She'll have a hell of a story to tell, and she'll always have an accomplishement no one can take away from her.}

Taking a Bath in the Indian?

Survivng?

...what is the accomplishment you speak of???

Posted by: The Australian Taxpayers at June 11, 2010 07:03 PM (2+9Yx)

You should google the battle of the coral sea sometime.

OT:  Sentor Lindsey Graham?  Not as against the AGW scam as he is against being labeled by either side of the AGW debate as an opponent.

http://tinyurl.com/35dthzf

Incidentally:  this is not a death threat

_{Posted by: brak at June 11, 2010 07:08 PM (W5NBA)}

I ordered my  'Pork Tartar with Halibut Gravy Surf and Turf Combo Platter' almost an hour ago...what's the hold up?

I'm going out on a boat in September. But it's one of them big ones with "US NAVY" printed on it.

That sounds exciting.  Stay outta trouble.  I was watching Cabin Boy the other day.  Watch out for Hell's Kitchen.  And Sharky.

She just didn't have the strength to drop the sail in the face of 30-40 mph winds, fire up the motor, and face into the wind. So instead she snapped the mainsail and almost ended up a statistic. Guts and moxie are cool, but she should have had the physical strength to achieve a task that was inevitable in a round the world trip.

and

Yeah but in June the Indian ocean will peel your rigging off like Banana peel. Heavy weather almost inevitable - and the REASON they sent her out on the Indian Ocean in winter was not to defeat the winter Indian Ocean, but because otherwise she couldn't be the age record.

These are the parts that tick me off. The only part age takes for me is where the blame should go.

Heck, I wouldn't be surprised that if when she's a little older and has learned a little more, she ends up saying "WTF were you doing thinking this was a good idea?"

But for god sakes wear your seatbelt.

If not, we'll deny you medical coverage.

A sixteen year old kid doesn't have the experience or judgment to handle a lot of situations

Most of them don't. But most of them are coddled.

In years past, 16 year olds have been husbands, fathers, soldiers, kings, and everything else.

At the age of 16 Alexander of Macedon became Regent of all Greece.

_{You'll have to explain that one, chief.}

old spaceghost quote...

and he was dead at 32

Death happens.

How good of a job did the teenager do? He made Julius Caesar feel inferior.

On the plus side, the man only had to wear diapers on one end of his life.

Death happens.

Entropy, didn't people usually die by the age of 40?   Sixteen would have been the prime of your life.

If you ask me? Eh... I think they died all over the place. It might average to 40. A great damn many - maybe most - died before 2. The ones that made it to 40, it wasn't unheard of to go 65.

But yeah - there wasn't any time to coddle them back then.

Now we can afford to keep them children until they're 26.

I'm just impressed by anyone who doesn't get seasick. I get seasick very easily.

I was on a vomit cruise one time.  It was a ferry boat, going from Santorini to Athens.  Everybody on the boat barfed.  Every body.  Except the crew, standing there laughing and passing out towels.  (I guess those four guys didn't have to clean up.)  There was so much barf, the main bathroom with its many stalls was covered.  All toilets and sinks full.  The floor.  Everyone was harfing all over.  There was so much barf it made you wanna throw up.  I almost quenched my need to barf--by standing at the railing, looking at the horizon, watching the motion, and feeling the breeze--but a very hot chick ran up and projectile vomited about 30 feet into the water.  Quite an accomplishment.  I rolled my eyes and looked away, and about 20 people who were watching started laughing.

They must not teach you Yanks history, the Japs never came close to our country,

They made it all the way to New Guinea. That looks pretty close on my maps.

Posted by: wherestherum at June 11, 2010 07:27 PM (gofDd)

Well, that's encouraging.

That's not the same as mastering a skill involving piloting a plane or boat while navigating the air or ocean and fighting weather at the same time.

The hell it's not. What part of what I said made you think I was excluding sailors from the list of professions 16 year olds have held? Both merchant and military. Not to mention pirates and smugglers. And this back before sat-phones.

They don't have enough past experience to make good decisions. How could they?

They lack experience, compared to a 40 year old, certainly. But they're competitent enough. They've done it before. Stop coddling them. They'd have more experience by now if you'd have let them get it.

All that being said.. if she was my daughter, for a ROUND THE WORLD solo trip? I'd tell her to wait till she's 18.

But I'm not second guessing the people. Adults get stranded and need rescue too.

Well, that's encouraging.

Posted by: Herr Morgenholz at June 11, 2010 07:29 PM (E2PKM)

Ha! I think average age these days is 72 or so, depending on gender. So we've come a long way, baby. But it's inaccurate to say most people died in their 40s in "ancient" times. A lot of them lived quite a long time.

Posted by: Luca Brasi at June 11, 2010 05:57 PM (YmPwQ)

Exactly, we need more politicians* and less brave and competent teens.

As for the 'daddy's yacht' crack, her dad is a blue collar shipbuilder.  Her older brother Zac had to buy his round the world boat with money from a part time job. 
In an older generation, 16 yr olds were faking their age to get in the services and were fighting in the Pacific.  Nowadays, we call 16 yr olds children who need to be coddled.

*I still really like Christie.  He has what passes for moxie in this day and age.

.....problem of having too much money laying around.

Could you put a numerical value on that for me?

They must not teach you Yanks history, the Japs never came close to our country,

They made it all the way to New Guinea. That looks pretty close on my maps.

Posted by: Bill R. at June 11, 2010 07:25 PM (EhlQq)

Don't you know that the Soviets won the war in Europe and the Australians won the war in the Pacific. The U.S. did nothing but to try and hog all the credit for both endeavors.

Posted by: wherestherum at June 11, 2010 07:24 PM (gofDd)

that's a good thing, the greedy austrailians want to send you a bill if they have to rescue you these days. Just wait, one day they will invent boats and get in trouble at sea. Then it will be checkbook baby.

wow you're a regular philosopher, eh?

Yes. Yes I am.

Don't hate me because I'm profound. Hate the game.

"Gutsy" does not have to mean "life threatening."

The analogy comparing this to "driving" doesn't wash; if a kid wrecked his car it wouldn't take days just to find out if he's alive, and driving for a number of teens is a necessary activity for their jobs and/or school.  And yeah, I'd have a problem with a teenage kid driving, hiking, boating, skiing, etc in the middle of nowhere with no supervision.

This girl's boat could have capsized when the mast broke.  This conversation would be different if she was dead.  Just a few years ago a 12-year-old girl was killed in a plane trying to set a record.  The only difference here is the type of vehicle.

This is extremely poor judgment on behalf of the parents.  There are far more ways the girl could have exercised a sense of adventure without risking her life and the lives of others.

Sunderland soon ran into equipment problems and had to stop for repairs. She gave up the goal of setting the record in April, but continued.

From the link. I didn't realize that.

I thought we were going to talk about vomit now.  Anyone else seen a hot chick projectile vomit 30 feet?  (Granted, we were standing about 30 feet above the water line.) 

That's my big accomplishment in life.  Something no one can take away.  A "10" ran up and barfed next to me... making me think she was gross.  Disgust is a such a fickle emotion.

"Gutsy" does not have to mean "life threatening."

Yes. I must say yes, frankly, it does.

It's a noble attempt to define it down but tempting fate and ordering the 911 wings at Hooters is not that gutsy.

There's nothing remotely 'gutsy' about doing things you know won't hurt you seriously. They just don't take guts...

Posted by: Jane D'oh at June 11, 2010 07:39 PM (UOM4

Tell him to forget the technology and put BIG KNOCKERS on the door. 

Tell him to forget the technology and put BIG KNOCKERS on the door. 

Posted by: robtr at June 11, 2010 07:40 PM (fwSHf)

I can be booked through "The Speakers' Bureau".

Posted by: Herr Morgenholz at June 11, 2010 07:41 PM (E2PKM)

A goat huh? Not that there is anything wrong with that I guess.

What are they gonna investigate? How stupid the Democrats in South Carolina are?

The Republicans are to blame for adding the "e".

Jane, I'm sure he's showing moxie...try telling him that and see if it helps!

Posted by: nevergiveup at June 11, 2010 07:33 PM (U5btG)

The Hawaiian-looking Asian Lost Among Caucasians in L.A. is right:  The shorter overall life span Back in the Day was due to a drastically higher child mortality rate.

If you made it to 12, you would probably live into your fifties or sixties; the difference between Then and Now is that today nearly all kids make it to 12 while Back Then nearly half of them did not

Posted by: Herr Morgenholz at June 11, 2010 07:41 PM (E2PKM)

How's your goat doin'?

Having a profession and having the experience, judgement and skill to fly airplanes, pilot boats, etc.etc. or two different things.

So 16 year olds can have jobs on boats or planes, but they can't actually pilot them solo.

I soloed an aircraft when I was sixteen

Wait... but... what?

but I didn't set out to fly across the Atlantic.

Oh... and.... I'm afraid I've really lost track of where you're going with this.

Posted by: Herr Morgenholz at June 11, 2010 07:41 PM (E2PKM)

This sounds like an MI-6 coded message to ze Resistance in France in WWII

Posted by: Jane D'oh at June 11, 2010 07:36 PM (UOM4

A Book Deal or Movie?  OH NO!!  Making money is baaaaaad!  WTF? 

I guess conservatism means locking your daughter away until she has a man to protect her from the bad dangerous world.

Posted by: Deanna at June 11, 2010 07:43 PM (hj1MN)

You do know that most accidents happen within 5 miles of home don't you? just sayin.

This sounds like an MI-6 coded message to ze Resistance in France in WWII

Posted by: SantaRosaStan at June 11, 2010 07:48 PM (JrRME)

You got me.  "Screen door" is code for "collaborate and round up the Jews".

Let kids play out their moxie dreams once they're adults and responsible for themselves. A parent's job is to be the bad guy, the one who makes the responsible and safe decisions to keep the kid alive.

OT: Pelosi guarantees Democratswill keep House majority: http://tinyurl.com/39ns5hf

In an interview with one of us yesterday, House Speaker Nancy Pelosi maintained that Democrats would hold on to the House after the midterm elections. “Take it to the bank,” she said, adding: “I’m very pleased with how the primaries have been going in terms of the votes that my members have received. Looking at the other side and who the challengers are, I feel pretty good about it.” Pelosi continued to make a distinction between how House Democrats are dealing with this election cycle versus the rest of the Democratic Party.

Now there's a goat in my kitchen. 

Perhaps this is not a good time for me to offer congratulations on your recent news.

I'm looking for a new piece of dick for her.

Yes, I'll wait for another thread, another topic...

I can't believe a new doorbell installation has turned into such a fuckup.  Seriously.

Swearing is part of any job. You should know that. Maybe he needs some help like holding tools or testing for current. Things like that.

'Goat' is a well known racial code word.

Whatever else, he's at least as racist as Hallmark.

And that's pretty damn racist.

Posted by: Herr Morgenholz at June 11, 2010 07:50 PM (E2PKM)

So, not eveyone can live in your neighborhood.

No you didn't, you're just being a dick now.

No, I have.

You're not expressing this well.

You really appear to be saying 16 year olds don't have enough experience to solo boats or planes.... and also that you solo'd a plane at 16.

I can gather you might be saying 16 is a bit to young to be going all the way around the world solo in your boat/plane, because you couldn't have been sailing solo too long... and I'd probably agree with you there ... but you've never said that with words.

Yes. I must say yes, frankly, it does.

Then by your definition Chris Christie isn't gutsy.

I think I'm going to disagree with that.

(And let's not go into LaLa land and say, "But he could be assassinated!"  Yeah, and so could a mailman in his line of profession, but I don't consider any of them "gutsy.")

Posted by: The Dread Pirate Neck Beard at June 11, 2010 07:56 PM (wOtDN)

Posted by: SMB at June 11, 2010 08:03 PM (mFp4E)

I think taking the chance is the point ace was making. America was founded on taking ridiculous chances.

 How long until the drinking age is 26 and you can be claimed as a dependent child at 45?

Good question.  Problem is, the way that personal responsibility is viewed these days 26 is getting more and more reasonable as "adulthood."

But, this sort of stunt isn't going to affect that, especially if the girl ends up dead.

Don't you know that the Soviets won the war in Europe and the Australians won the war in the Pacific. The U.S. did nothing but to try and hog all the credit for both endeavors.

Posted by: Jim in San Diego at June 11, 2010 07:32 PM (oIp16)

Funny! What's funnier still is that there are people out there who believe it. Or is that sad? 

 Severe injury, or even something that could potentially result in you never having another job in some field could be considered gutsy.

Thank you, my point exactly: gutsy does not have to mean "life-threatening."

I think this sailor is plenty gutsy just for becoming a sailor.  This trip just goes to show me her parents are stupid.

Then by your definition Chris Christie isn't gutsy.

Not really, no.

He's outspoken. He's candid. He's sincere.

He's a bit gutsy with his political career (narrowly defined context), perhaps. Maybe. Arguably. But that's assuming his primary concern is his political career.

Politicians talk.

Talk is not 'brave'. We should dispense with this nonsense about 'brave politicans'. None of these guy are being brave. You're defining bravery down.

Like when we call the dude who hid under his desk and managed not to get shot by sheer luck - because the shooter was too busy popping his co-eds - a "hero" just for being victimized and surviving.

They must not teach you Yanks history, the Japs never came close to our country,

They made it all the way to New Guinea. That looks pretty close on my maps.

You got a shitty map.

It 1962 miles to Melbourne.  That a little less that the distance from Maine to Key West.

I am a lot more impressed that she apparently knew exactly what to do if she got in trouble, than that she might have been the youngest person to ever do this.

As a parent of a 16 yr old girl, this is a tough one for me, but I don't know the kid or her family.

Obviously she was well-drilled in emergency procedure, and has a pretty good hold on her panic button, to have not only battled those sea conditions, but to activiate her beacons, hunker down and wait after the boat flipped and she lost her mast.

Can anyone here seriously imagine flipping a boat 2000 miles from anywhere, in the night, in hurricane force winds and 30 foot seas?

AND keeping their head during it?

Seriously, call the laundry boy.

Thank you, my point exactly: gutsy does not have to mean "life-threatening."

Nah. Anything that risks severe injury IS life threatening. Severe injuries sometimes result in death. How the hell do you seperate those two?

Funny! What's funnier still is that there are people out there who believe it. Or is that sad? Posted by: Bill R.

Posted by: lowandslow at June 11, 2010 08:09 PM (GZitp)

that's a false argument, what if a 16 yo had been flying since she was 12 and acummulated 250 hrs.? People cross country with alot less flying experience than that. You're only argument IMO is that 16 year olds aren't emotionally capable of doing anything on their own for any length of time and history proves your both right and wrong on that one.

 There's no way a sixteen year old can acquire that. They just haven't been alive or matured enough to do it safely.

Agreed.  There's a big difference between "been through it all" and "being tested for it all."  And you don't want to find that out in the middle of an ocean somewhere.

It 1962 miles to Melbourne.  That a little less that the distance from Maine to Key West.

Posted by: The Australian Taxpayers at June 11, 2010 08:11 PM (2+9Yx)

yeah no way the japs could sail 1962 miles, just not fucking possible. I just wonder how that 16 yo ended up in the Indian Ocean and who the fuckers were that bombed pearl harbor.

Nah. Anything that risks severe injury IS life threatening. Severe injuries sometimes result in death. How the hell do you seperate those two?

Here is the original sentence that I was responding to...

Severe injury, or even something that could potentially result in you never having another job in some field could be considered gutsy.

Now, very easy question...

DO YOU SEE THE "OR" IN THAT SENTENCE?

Really, Entropy, stop wasting my time.  You're wrong.  Deal.

Posted by: Herr Morgenholz at June 11, 2010 07:47 PM (E2PKM)

I hear there's a battle-tested Angora goat somewhere in the Washington, DC, area.  Any goat that is smart enough to wound a Democrat Congressman is okay in my book.

Good question.  Problem is, the way that personal responsibility is viewed these days 26 is getting more and more reasonable as "adulthood."

You are precisely right about that.

13 year olds use to have to grow up so they grew up.

These days 20 year olds don't have to grow up... so they don't. You look at most kids these days and say - they're fricken morons, invalids, they can't do shit.

Well you're right. They can't. But they can't because no one makes them. If you made them... they could. Or at least might.

Maybe when we have cybernetics and gene therapies and people live to be 628 the legal drinking age will be 72.

And we're all be arguing "There's no way a 40 year old can make an informed decision about anything!"

Headline:  16 Year Old Girl Has Bigger Balls Than President Obama!!!

. . .

. . .

And, Sharkman, for that matter.

DO YOU SEE THE "OR" IN THAT SENTENCE?

Heh.

So you're pissed I only replied in part. I have made other comments, you know. No need to repeat everything I've said in each one.

Besides... it seems you only replied in part as well.

Really, Entropy, stop wasting my time.  You're wrong.  Deal.

No.

Very persuasive though.

yeah no way the japs could sail 1962 miles, just not fucking possible. I just wonder how that 16 yo ended up in the Indian Ocean and who the fuckers were that bombed pearl harbor.

Posted by: robtr at June 11, 2010 08:17 PM (fwSHf)

There is also the notion that once the Japanese Imperial Army landed anywhere on the Australian mainland, it might have been rather difficult to dislodge them -- as compared to keeping them across the straits on New Guinea -- and it might concurrently have made it easier for them to advance in stages down the eastern coast of the continent, toward all its important bits.  (And of course, in this alternate history, even if the Japanese never made it to the Australian mainland, they might still have made life uncomfortable for Australia and its citizens had they solidified their control of Southeast Asia and the Southern Pacific -- Australia, I have heard, is a long way from anywhere, and being cut off from sea and air traffic by an enemy regime might have had unpleasant repercussions.)

A sixteen year old could never accumulate 250 hours of flying time that would give them the experience needed to accomplish something similar because they would be dead.  That's the reason we don't let them do it.

This is just empirically false.

To say they are completely incapable of these things is demonstrably false.

This is why you remain very confusing to me.

To say these things might not be wise for 16  year olds... that is 1 thing.

To say they are impossible (as you do), that's something else entirely.

You do know that most accidents happen within 5 miles of home don't you? just sayin.

Posted by: robtr at June 11, 2010 07:48 PM

There are a whole lot of other dangers out there besides having an accident. 

So you're pissed I only replied in part. I have made other comments, you know. No need to repeat everything I've said in each one.

I'm not going to read all of your crap, and I don't have to in order to see you didn't read that entire sentence which contradicted your position.

No.

No need to admit you're wrong, it's obvious.  Just deal with it.

Very persuasive though.

Once again, I'm not going to read all of your crap, but I sincerely doubt you've persuaded anyone to change their minds to your definition of gutsy since it's dead wrong.

It's not just emotional it's their physical and mental development. By the time someone gets to sixteen they are just starting to acquire enough of those attributes that we allow them to proceed on a very limited and supervised basis.

Posted by: lowandslow at June 11, 2010 08:27 PM (GZitp)

Like I said, history proves you both right and wrong in what you are saying.

A 15-year-old Los Angeles girl who navigated a single-engine Cessna through thunderstorms in Texas and took in breathtaking aerial views of Arizona’s sunsets — landed her plane to cheering crowds at Compton Woodley Airport today, becoming the youngest African American female pilot to fly solo across country.

There are a whole lot of other dangers out there besides having an accident. 

Posted by: Deanna at June 11, 2010 08:32 PM (hj1MN)

Wonder where most kidnapping and rapes happen?

"Wonder where most kidnapping and rapes happen?"

In Ben Roethlisberger's hotel room?

After the battle of Coral Sea, the japs had had enough.

Oh and who fought at the Battle of the Coral Sea hmmmm?

Australia is a very tough and formidable nation with a long and effective military tradition.

But in the 1940's you were nation of 8 million people.

Why the hell it hurts your national pride to admit a country of 8 million people needed the help of a country with 140 million people to defeat another country with 80 million I do not know.

Japan was a damn power. They defeated the Germans in the Pacific in WWI and they defeated the Russians and they gave the US and allied forces a serious fight as well.

Without the Eastern Front, the French would still be speaking German.

Without the Western Front, Muscovites would have begun speaking German.

Posted by: lowandslow at June 11, 2010 08:39 PM (GZitp)

Hah , I don't know I guess she faked it and the LA Times went along with it. WTF? I would be happy to provide you with the link if you want and you can call the LA Times and tell them it's all of fake because 15 yo can't solo.

The point was already hashed out above. The problem with the analogy is that 60 or 70 years ago kids didn't set out on their own to become the next reality TV disaster. They left home because they had to.

You missed my point or I didn't make it well enough. My point is that some, not all, 16 year yos can be as mature as a 21 year old, whether forced or voluntarily.

Posted by: damian at June 11, 2010 08:25 PM (4WbTI)

Posted by: lowandslow at June 11, 2010 08:43 PM (GZitp)

Read the whole article, how did Levi meet her at the airport if he was flying with her?

And add to that, the possibility of death anytime you got on a US boat bound for Europe or vice versa, which Adams did multiple times. Meanwhile, we have become a nation of complete, utter, mewling pussies who whine if the fast food drive thru line is too long.

Nah, this is the Land of the Free and the Home of the Brave!

Err... or not.

Seatbelt laws.. transfat and sodium bans.. gun-free zones and hate speech policies... styrofoam padded playgrounds and helmets on bicycles..

I really don't think we're much of either any more.

Jessica Whitney Dubroff (May 5, 1988 – April 11, 1996) was a 7-year-old pilot trainee who died attempting to become the youngest person to fly an airplane across the United States.

FYI, that was irresponsible on the part of the parents, too.

I want to know the political makeup of those chowder heads calling for the prosecution of her parents for child endangerment.

Who are those people and what else do they believe?

Just look at Jerry Rivers - Fox's resident "Libertarian"...he's raising holy hell over this, because that family home schooled their 7 kids and that his "sources" told him that the young lady was in over her head from the start.  BTW = he claims that he's an "expert"sailor...

Damn runningrn disease.

Sorry to hear that Kratos.  It's chronic but at least it's not terminal!

I want to know the political makeup of those chowder heads calling for the prosecution of her parents for child endangerment.

I don't think they should be prosecuted.  I think they should be ridiculed and derided for being the terrible parents they are so perhaps they will develop a little backbone and say "No" to their kid when she asks if she can do something really really stupid.

Who are those people and what else do they believe?

I believe in responsible parenting.

Posted by: lowandslow at June 11, 2010 08:50 PM (GZitp)

Now you are being silly. The article dosn't say that. The article says she flew solo and that Levi flew with her from Compton to Newport News, VA where she started her solo trip.

FYI, that was irresponsible on the part of the parents, too.

There's a 13 year old girl from Australia that wants to do the same circumnavigation by sailing thing.  The Aussie government put the kybosh on it, but I believe her parents are trying to get around that somehow.

There's also the 13 year old boy who just successfully summited Everest.  Even though he was with his dad (an experienced climber) and he himself was too, I still think that is wrong.  High altitude can have permanent deleterious affects on adult brains, God only knows what it can do to a kid's undeveloped one.

What you meant to say is "without the tanks and supplies the US shipped Russia through the Arctic Circle, they would have been defeated."

No, what I mean to say is no Western front, no more Stalingrad.

Oh, they were defending it... yes.

But they would have lost it in the end if not for the West. Germany would have beat them.

Plus, there was a Western front before D-Day.

Britian was the western front. The Canadians made (albeit failed) landing attempts. The Americans did on D-Day as well.

Just the presence of the allies (even before the US entered) and the threat of an invasion tied up half Hitler's forces and kept them off the Soviet lines. He had his divisions stationed from France to Norway to try to stop us where ever we'd land.

Plus the troops in Africa, which the British and US forces kept him from sweeping right up along with the whole of the mid-east and it's oil.

461

No kidding.  The lengths some people will go through to avoid being "wrong..."

Actually Mrs. Doh,  you're wrong on that. And this is coming from the eyes of an army brat.  That girl trained her ass of to try to accomplish a GOAL.  It wasn't trying to beat a record, I think that would have been an aside, as she wanted to sail round the world. When she docked in CAPE TOWN S.Africa for repairs, she lost out on that record and chose to continue the trip to accomplish her goal. Her dad is a professional ship builder and they own a yacht management service for what, 15 years I think I read? The girl was probably on a boat before she learned to walk.  Anyways, I digress. My point is that There's a certain maturity level you have to be at to make a decision that can end up fatal. Young men and women who serve may not initially understand that but I imagine they're quite aware of that after they go through basic. Don't demean her parents or her choice when they prepared properly and then did what all parents must do at some point in their life. Let go. I applaud both the girl and her family for what they've attempted, providing it's the family supporting their child's dream.  I just don't see this as an ego trip by the parents.  And as for cost, The Aussies already said they aren't charging for doing their job.

In this case, I think I'm one of the few who disagrees with the majority here, but I belive that there's more to this family than fooolishness and an ego trip.

There's also the 13 year old boy who just successfully summited Everest.  Even though he was with his dad (an experienced climber) and he himself was too, I still think that is wrong.  High altitude can have permanent deleterious affects on adult brains, God only knows what it can do to a kid's undeveloped one.

High altitude causes possibly fatal brain swelling.  I'd read about that and I just shook my head.  These people really just do not give a single d@mn about their kids.

Posted by: HeatherRadish at June 11, 2010 08:45 PM (M9BNu)

I should have said "some" people. I did not mean average or median. Also, probably depended on demographics.

Kimberly Anyadike took off from Compton 13 days ago with an adult safety pilot and Levi Thornhill, an 87-year-old who served with the Tuskegee Airmen during World War II. They flew to Newport News, Va., making about a dozen stops along the way.

She wasn't by herself, ever.

Uhmm then she flew back to COMPTON SOLO where Levi Greeted her at the fucking airport!

Posted by: The Australian Taxpayers at June 11, 2010 08:37 PM (2+9Yx)

Soviet Lend Lease Aid, look it up. Were it not for the U.S. they would have been done and over with by 1943.

Their massive troop losses were the sole result of their own incompetence.

They lost the ability to produce even basic explosives (no Taurine) by the end of 1941. Do they teach that in Australia?

http://bit.ly/auC1YN

Dude, work on your reading comprehension.

I know damn well the Battle for Stalingrad was over. I'm saying they would have lost the whole damn war (and hence, an obligatory and eventual Stalingrad redux) if not for the western front.

Ground troops make a front, I don't remember any German troops fighting in Britain.

Again - reading comprehension. Look it up.

Try again.

Africa was NOT a Western Front nor do most say Italy was. 

Semantics - who was fighting there?

Posted by: lowandslow at June 11, 2010 09:08 PM (GZitp)

Well you're not going to change mine by saying this 15 yo girl didn't do what she did. Maybe it was reckless but it happened. At least according to the LA Times. Not that they are always right but you can't read that article and read it any other way.

16 used to be an effectively "adult "age.   A young man could be out clearing and plowing land at that age.  The concept of adolescence is a modern invention, and not a very helpful one.  We excuse all manner of childishness because of it.

For a lone woman of any age to try this would be bold.  Even for a man it's what uncle Joe would call a "big fucking deal."  Age is not really the issue, as I see it. 

In any case, the tut tutting about this episode sickens me.  The girl was old enough to make her own decisions.  Any 16 year old who hasn't been either coddled or ill-nurtured is.  This was a daring adventure, and I salute it.  All the best stories come from people doing thus.  A brief but interesting and purposeful life is better than a long and boring one.  Having 36 boring years to look back on and regret, I wish I'd had the skills and interest to do something like this when I had less to lose.  Now in my decrepitude I have little drive to do anything that would disrupt my very comfortable status quo. 

And to those who complain about the cost of rescue, what the hell are standing rescue services for?  Do we need everyone to file a fucking permit before doing anything interesting?  She took her chances.  If she dies at sea, so be it.  But given that people are paid every day to look after such matters, we may as well make sure of them now and then.

Preserving long life on earth should not be our #1 concern. 

Posted by: damian at June 11, 2010 08:49 PM (4WbTI)

--That chick at the end looked a lot like Jenna Fischer.

Yea, sorry for the blob. I normally break it up into chunks, but I was on a ramble.  My main point of disagreement was on the maturity level of someone who chooses to serve, someone who chooses to strive for an incredibly difficult goal, and common kids today, which I was one. I don't have the skills to do what any of them do, but I certainly respect them for doing something that 99% of people today can hardly fathom.

Like I said, I just don't see this as a parental ego trip. Not after reading the small anecdote the dad mentioned while teaching her blue water sailing.

The young lady knew the risks, prepared for them, then threw the dice. The ocean is a harsh mistress, and even though she tried to ruin this kids day, her training and preparations and knowledge of when to call for help has resulted in a *hopefully* happy ending.  And on the pain of repeating myself, her travel path was meant to have the lowest risk of encountering pirates...they considered them a nastier threat than mother nature I guess.

O/T, but it seems like we've morphed into an open thread a little bit.  Yesterday, we put in an epicardial pacing lead and a new generator in a woman who's pacemaker was not functioning properly.  She had a history of breast cancer and radiation to her chest, so the surgeon decided to do it endoscopically instead of the traditional placement.  I asked the rep (who works for Medtronic) how badly the Obama tax on medical devices is going to hurt their bottom line.  He said it's going to absolutely kill them.  Basically, the most complex, technical devices (which cost more) are going to be more penalized.  Beside the fact that senior citizens are losing their Medicare Advantage this summer and 51% of employees will be seeing changes to their health care despite being promised "if you like your plan, you can keep your plan", medical technology will really take a hit.  There will be no incentive to innovate and create new medical devices because you will be penalized.  The surgeon I was working with had no idea about the forthcoming tax.  He was like "What are you talking about?"  I told him in order to pay for Obamacare, the money is going to have to come from somewhere.  Innovation is going to be taxed."  The anesthesiologist in our room (a big lib) was like "Well, it's so poor people can have healthcare too".  I wanted to vomit.

America, the outstanding leader in ingenuity and innovation is going to be relegated to being a mediocre mid-packer.  Other countries are going to be adversely affected by this too.  They have no idea.

Posted by: runningrn at June 11, 2010 09:18 PM (CfmlF)

I can tell that you're a distance runner.

Indentations are for sprinters...

Let's recap this.

The Battle of Stalingrad was OVER before D Day. 

I said:

Oh, they were defending it... yes.

But they would have lost it in the end if not for the West. Germany would have beat them.

I meant what I meant, but I admit I might not have been clear.

An air bombardment does not count as a front.  Ground troops make a front, I don't remember any German troops fighting in Britain.

What I said:

Just the presence of the allies (even before the US entered) and the threat of an invasion tied up half Hitler's forces and kept them off the Soviet lines. He had his divisions stationed from France to Norway to try to stop us where ever we'd land.

In other words - Hitler had troops stationed in France, Belgium, and Norway because of Britain. They weren't fighting no - that's the key actually. They weren't fighting Russia, they were waiting for the West.

Africa was NOT a Western Front nor do most say Italy was. 

What I said:

Plus the troops in Africa, which the British and US forces kept him from sweeping right up along with the whole of the mid-east and it's oil.

I didn't call it the Western Front.

I did say:

But they would have lost it in the end if not for the West.

The West. Not Western front, West. Who was fighting in Africa?

Last I heard, the human mind does not fully mature until somewhere around age 20. That's why the age where you're legally considered an adult is usually 18 or 21.

Therefore, I do not think a 16-year-old - even an unusually mature one - should be allowed to make a decision to do something as dangerous as sailing around the world, much less be allowed to actually do it. Her parents are crazy - it's that simple.

16 year old's drive, he says?  Be serious.  Driving is nowhere near as dangerous as what this kid was up to.  Even Obama can come up with better lame-ass rationales than that.

That being said I gotta really admire the kid.  But for God's sake, people...  wait 'til the kid's at least 18!!!

runningrn:

"The anesthesiologist in our room (a big lib) was like "Well, it's so poor people can have healthcare too".  I wanted to vomit."

anesthesiologist. noun. Someone who failed calculus in pre-med. see: communications major.

And, yeah, her parents should have to pay for the rescue operations.  At least it sounds like nobody was putting themselves in serious jeopardy over this, but people undoubtedly spent a lot of time and fuel because of this.

BTW, didn't the kid have a GPS?  Why all the searching?

The surgeon I was working with had no idea about the forthcoming tax.  He was like "What are you talking about?"  I told him in order to pay for Obamacare, the money is going to have to come from somewhere.  Innovation is going to be taxed."  The anesthesiologist in our room (a big lib) was like "Well, it's so poor people can have healthcare too".  I wanted to vomit.

That's beyond ignorance.  Winston Churchill was right - socialism is the equal distribution of misery.  We'll all have the same crappy health care and medical devices. 

Big time. Whenever I run into hard working productive people who mouth liberal platitudes, I get really pessimistic for the future of this country.

The indoctrination mills (colleges) are doing a fine job.

robtr

She did not fly solo, I don't know why the article says that but it's not true. The FAA would be all over it, you cannot fly an aircraft by yourself till you're sixteen, it's the regulation and they don't give exemptions.

Posted by: lowandslow at June 11, 2010 09:11 PM (GZitp)

I don't know why the article says that either but you seem pretty adament about it so I did further research because that's just the kind of guy I am. Turns out you were right.

A graduate of the program and adult safety pilot instructed Anyadike and went up with her on her practice runs and accompanied her on the trip.

Anyadike also flew every mile of the trip with Tuskegee airman Levi Thornhill, 86. When Thornhill heard about her plan, according to Petgrave, “he said ‘This would be the thrill of my life.’”

Big time. Whenever I run into hard working productive people who mouth liberal platitudes, I get really pessimistic for the future of this country.

I don't know if any of you read Mark Steyn's recent column about Greece but he said something like "Margaret Thatcher was right.  She said socialism works fine until you run out of other people's money.  The problem with Greece [because of their low birthrate] is that they are running out of other people."

robtr

She did not fly solo, I don't know why the article says that but it's not true. The FAA would be all over it, you cannot fly an aircraft by yourself till you're sixteen, it's the regulation and they don't give exemptions.

Posted by: lowandslow at June 11, 2010 09:11 PM (GZitp)

Of course you can decide on your own who has the sharper mind in that plane. A 15 year old or an 86 year old.

in 1943, they were attacking German and destroying their entire tank fleet.

They were attacking half the Germans and destroying half their entire tank fleet (with US material aid).

The other half was sitting on the beach in France amd Norway watching for British and Canucks.

That is, of course, half and half, minus the tanks in Africa.

Had the Germans no other flanks to worry about, to concentrate their forces on the Soviets, the soviets would have been rolled back to Siberia again. In fact, they wouldn't have pushed back half as successfully as they did in the first place.

anesthesiologist. noun. Someone who failed calculus in pre-med. see: communications major.

Posted by: tangonine at June 11, 2010 09:24 PM (C8Pcc)

Lacey, do you think that's Amishdude's new handle?

558 yea, they had confirmation with a flyover. First rogue wave smashed radar and GPS may have been damaged as well. She had 2 emergency beacons activated with the third one (auto activates if below 15 ft of water) was quiet. Closest ship was 40 hrs away.

And even with gps, it's damned hard to spot a 40 foot yacht in calm seas, let alone high sea.  <-- speculation on my part, but sounds right from what I remember in some of the books I've read.

Posted by: The Australian Taxpayers at June 11, 2010 09:33 PM (2+9Yx)

We're not, we are just trying to figure out how much to bill the Austrailians.

Wonder how she would have handled Somali pirates.

I think I saw a video where they said they had her going on a route that would try and avoid them somehow.  (I guess they operate, more or less, in a specific area).

Why are we arguing WW2?

Because this diry drunk ozzy is trying to rewrite history to dimish our glory just so he can get out of paying what he owes us

But Toto has pulled the curtain back, and it looks like this year's clear-eyed electorate is ready to go home to Kansas.

@soap

yeah, that, and daddy issues.

Posted by: Germany at June 11, 2010 09:36 PM (MFbfZ)

Don't worry, Mark eventually mentioned you and the other Euro countries in that column.  (You know his America Alone book made that very point:  the only people reproducing over there are the Muzzies.  This was called "hate speech".)

Because this diry drunk ozzy is trying to rewrite history to dimish our glory just so he can get out of paying what he owes us

Posted by: Entropy at June 11, 2010 09:36 PM (eL+YD)

Wasn't Austrailia originally a penal colony for SCANDIS?

Posted by: Entropy at June 11, 2010 08:59 PM (eL+YD)

As I am fond of saying, if the Germans didn't have the Italians as allies, they would have won the war. Germany had to detach a division from Operation Barbarosa to go down and save Italy's butt from the Greeks. That extra division would have made the difference in Russia.

583: "But Toto has pulled the curtain back, and it looks like this year's clear-eyed electorate is ready to go home to Kansas."

Wishful thinking.  There will almost certainly be a lot of turnover, but a significant percentage of the worst statists and corrupt porkers will be returned, and some new ones will be added.  There will be no rollbacks or repeals.  At best 2010 will simply be yet another "hold the line" rearguard effort on America's path to oblivion.

I'd love to be proven wrong, but I see no evidence to the contrary.

From History.net:  "The Navy's first admiral would be David Farragut, then an 11-year-old midshipman aboard Essex."

That would be the US Navy.

Damn you, italics!

There will be no rollbacks or repeals

Are you tellin me you don't think Mitch McConnell, John Boehner, Mav McCain etc. won't have the stones to refuse to fund healthcare? 

Eh, me neither.

I think I posted this here once before, but I found a story our CEO told about meeting with Obama's people very interesting.  He said that they laid out how much the Obamacare medical devices tax was going to cost us.  Let's say it's fifty million per year.  Naturally he asked, "Do you have any idea how much of our product I have to sell to come up with fifty million?"  According to him, the Obama people just looked at him as though he was an idiot.  "Of course you've got an extra fifty mill sitting around," they seemed to say.

Wodeshed, I was told by another rep that the company is not allowed to pass the cost of the tax on to the patient.  Companies will not only be forced to change the way they do business, a lot of them will go out of business.  I am not surprised about the meeting your boss had with the idiot Obama people.  These are people that never worked a real job in their lives.  They have been indoctrinated to believe that all corporations are evil, moneygrubbing, greedy, inhumane entitities that have bags of cash piled around in some Scrooge McDuck office vault.  Not only are Americans going to suffer, but a lot of poor, third world countries are too.  Whenever there is some kind of epic disaster in one of those God forsaken places, American drug and medical companies always donate tons of medicine and medical supplies.  Everyone is going to feel the hurt.

@605: "Not only are Americans going to suffer, but a lot of poor, third world countries are too.  Whenever there is some kind of epic disaster in one of those God forsaken places, American drug and medical companies always donate tons of medicine and medical supplies.  Everyone is going to feel the hurt."

Rest assured, Obizzle will put guns to the heads of those necessary in order to ensure that the people in the Godforsaken places get their free shit.  We'll be forced to take another hit for the "global good".

I can tell that you're a distance runner.

Indentations are for sprinters...

Ha! Ha!  That's so funny (cause it's true!)

The same could be said about the Western Front, if Hitler had not opened the Eastern Front, we wins the war. 

Oh, I do not deny that.

Now... hypotheticals are hypotheticals. I am personally hotter on our chances of having won with Russia then vice versa. But no one can know, and it is debatable. I will settle for saying we'd have had as good as chance at it without them as they would've had without us.

Africa was over by 1943.  You have got to start thinking of the time line. 

The fighting was over. The preoccupation of Hitler's Afrikakorps was not over, as I believe nearly Rommel's whole army was in British POW camps. At least the ones that survived.

Hitler fucked up a lot of things, thank God.

Oh, hell yes. If not for Hitler's retardation and penchant for treating military stategy as if he were composing an agitprop opera, the Soviets would have surrended by the end of '42 and Britian probably would have fell before the US entered, which would have made a sea crossing nearly impossible.

#613

Dude, it's a little late for the beach don't you think?

Wait, what?

Posted by: The Australian Taxpayers at June 11, 2010 09:51 PM (2+9Yx)

We invaded England?

Why is this girl alive?  Because the canvas can do miracles, just you wait and see.

LOL!  Talk about the antithesis of Moxie--Christopher Cross.  I think I heard that song "Video killed the Radio Star" was written with him in mind.

#623

He went hobo hunting with Dick Cheney today.  He's running a bit late for obvious reasons.

We invaded England?

I thought they invaded us.  I seem to recall something about 4 long-haired douche hipsters way back when...

Hitler fucked up a lot of things, thank God.

Oh, hell yes. If not for Hitler's retardation and penchant for treating military stategy as if he were composing an agitprop opera, the Soviets would have surrended by the end of '42 and Britian probably would have fell before the US entered, which would have made a sea crossing nearly impossible.

Posted by: Entropy at June 11, 2010 09:51 PM (eL+YD)

Any of you see that documentary "High Hitler" ? Hitler was on methamphetamines since 1935. That's why he was actin all crazy and shit!

It's 9pm and I'm just now making dinner.

Why are you eating so late?  I thought it was late here (after 7) and I haven't eaten yet, but I'm going to soon.

#631

A lonely testicle didn't help matters.

If not for Hitler's retardation and penchant for treating military stategy as if he were composing an agitprop opera

Not to pick on you, because I hear this from a lot of people - "if Hitler hadn't been a Jew-hating nutter he'd have won".

The thing is - it would have taken a megalomaniac, messianic figure even to have had the notion that conquering the world from a base in ruined post-WW1 Germany might work.

Hitler was a tragic figure (in the Greek sense - obviously there is no pitying him): if he hadn't been Hitler, he wouldn't have got started, and if he had had the wisdom to win, he wouldn't have been Hitler.

By the way, you don't owe us anything for WWII, our GI's got paid back plenty on shore leave in your country.

That's the whole reason his country has 20M people now instead of 8M.

It's also the reason why only 8M of them are communists.

I thought they invaded us.  I seem to recall something about 4 long-haired douche hipsters way back when...

Posted by: runningrn at June 11, 2010 09:57 PM (CfmlF)

I know we kicked their ass already a couple of times because we are asskickers. I thought those were in the books already.

Oh, hell yes. If not for Hitler's retardation and penchant for treating military stategy as if he were composing an agitprop opera, the Soviets would have surrended by the end of '42 and Britian probably would have fell before the US entered, which would have made a sea crossing nearly impossible.

That pretty much describes our current CinC.  I pray for our military multiple times a day, every day of the week.

I declare the "Y-Not rule" - any comment thread on Ace's, it it reaches post #638, becomes the ONT.

You didn't sacrifice him in the fires of Centriala, did you? 

No, but I can't speak for wherestherum!  I can see where you might have thought it was me since all us Asians look alike!

I declare the "Y-Not rule" - any comment thread on Ace's, it it reaches post #638, becomes the ONT.

Well, OK, FIRST!

I declare the "Y-Not rule" - any comment thread on Ace's, it it reaches post #638, becomes the ONT.

I like!  The "rule of Y-not"! 

Posted by: runningrn at June 11, 2010 10:01 PM (CfmlF)

And you guys make fun of the south

Four?

Oops, my bad, 5.  I don't know, I was too young when they were in vogue, and I never liked them anyways.  (Actually, with Yoko, I guess there were 6).

runningrn #644 - maybe if you grew a big bushy moustache

/bids self adieu

And you guys make fun of the south

You guys are a little easier to differentiate because some of you have one tooth, some of you have two teeth and some of you have no teeth...

I don't think I'd have been brave enough to let my kid do it, but I admire her moxie and her parents' bravery. Young people today are in a perpetual state of suspended adolescence, in part because it's so economically difficult to strike out on their own, but partly because we've become over-protective of them.

My grandparents were 12 and 14 when they got married (yea, we're hillbillies). They already had several children when my grandpa enlisted to serve our country during WWII; my grandma was only 17 when he enlisted........but she raised the kids and kept the farm going while he was gone, and she  helped two other families with their farms and kids, too. 

My mama left home when she was 14, traveled across the country on her own to work for room and board at a nursing home just so she could have a chance to become a nurse. Daddy lied about his age to join the service when he was 16.

That 13 year old kid who climbed Everst lived in a high-altitude city.....his brain was probably better suited to the altitude than  most adults who have made the climb; he's been climbing since he was 9, and conquered McKinley, which is worse than Everest, aside from the altitude.

Just because most of us no longer allow children to do amazing things doesn't mean they aren't capable of doing them.

And you guys make fun of the south

You guys are a little easier to differentiate because some of you have one tooth, some of you have two teeth and some of you have no teeth..."

While at the airport in Biloxi, departing from TDY at Keesler AFB, a friend and I were eating lunch.  We were making jokes about how hot the women were in MS, except for the missing teeth.  At that moment the waitress came up and smiled.  Looked like someone threw a rock through a plate glass window.  She couldn't understand why we were both laughing too hard to order.

Uh, what? How many kids die a year sailing versus driving?

I don't want to get on your bad list, if you have one, but one should consider the number of drivers vs. sailors. Use a percentage and you may still be correct. I honestly don't know.

The thing is - it would have taken a megalomaniac, messianic figure even to have had the notion that conquering the world from a base in ruined post-WW1 Germany might work.

Umm.. well.. probably yes. But the thing is... it might have! It actually wasn't that preposterous.

Plus you have to factor in that the dude was German.

They basically pulled some similar shit in WWI. Germany - late to the party as a unified entity but a potent military, economic, technological and social power - was itching for it's turn at Empire.

Hitler to some extent got caught up in his own BS. Early tastes of power intoxicated him, as is common. I don't think he set out with total Napoleonic conquest in mind. But what he did want - what started it all, the Rhineland, Austria, the Sudentland, and Prussia - was what a lot of Germans wanted and would have persued, still bitter over WWI and feeling they were robbed victory. And perhaps, deserved (minus the REST of Czechoslovakia and Poland they took along with it, of course).

His nearly uncontested success in getting these things led him to think he could take more.

It is not to defend or mitigate Hitler - who was oh god, such an evil nutter. As were ALL those authoritarian german socialist eugenics types. But the nazi's especially were like a cross between Robespierre, the vilest fantasies of George Benard Shaw, Ted Bundy, and those hippies who think a crystal skull heals them.

It is to TOTALLY seperate his foreign policy lunacy from his domestic lunacy, that I can say his foreign policy lunacy wasn't that lunatic to start with, it just snowballed. His domestic lunacy I can offer no explanation for.

But in terms of his foreign aggression, a lot of Germans may have tried that... and then, who knows, got caught up like he did. His foreign policies almost had to snowball into lunacy.. no one would check him.

It reminds me of a line in a forward I read to Caesar's Commentaries by Thomas de Quincey.

"Even Cato, the unworthy hero of Lucan, might have suggested to him a little more truth in this instance, by a celebrated remark which he made on the characteristic distinction of Caesar, in comparison with other revolutionary disturbers; for, said he, whereas others had attempted the overthrow of the state in a continued paroxysm of fury, and in a state of mind resembling the lunacy of intoxication, Caesar, on the contrary, among that whole class of civil disturbers, was the only one who had come to the task in a temper of sobriety and moderation."

Which is not to say Hitler acted like this exception of Caesar, but to the contrary that once he had begun to sucessfully upset the established orders, began acting like all other civil disturbers do, with "continued paroxysm of fury, and in a state of mind resembling the lunacy of intoxication".

I don't neccessarily think it would take a "megalomaniac, messianic" nutter to explain his foreign policies (detatched from the domestic insanity), I think to some degree it was almost inevitable, given the state of German sentiment and culture, the particular outcome and aftermath of WWI, and given the lack of response and utter weakness displayed by the other European nations.

The Sailing Anarchy forum has some interesting comments on the boat, Abby's skill level and the overall execution of the plan.   If  strong, seasoned old sailors say this was a bad idea then it was a bad idea.

The stage parents should pay for this rescue.

"Either answer me with what she did that a seasoned sailor would not have ...."

Okay, fine:   Ian Kiernarn, a yachtsman of 40 years, who has also circumnativated the world said,

"I don't know what she's doing in the southern Indian Ocean in the middle of the winter," he said. "We need adventurers but adventurers who do foolhardy things and put their rescuers at risk, it should not be allowed."

That pretty much says it all.

**As a former Coast Guard SAR radioman, her actions were dangerous to the point of putting other's lives at stake to rescue her. **

The captain of the fishing vessel fell in the ocean trying to rescue her.   The crew had a difficult time getting him out.    This debacle will end up costing the Australians and French a half a million dollars and Abby's family has put up a donation button on her blog to RETRIEVE THE BOAT.    There is no amount of public scorn that will get through to this selfish, narcissistic, fame seeking family.