1
whoa!

put up the skull! This is huuuugge!

/rollseyes

2
so this braintrust of bloggers support something that has yet to conduct an impact analysis report?

3 How 'bout that Dow?

4
of all the 'challenges facing our generation,' as Obama says, this is what we're dealing with?

funny how political correctness is a top priority but winning wars, controlling debt, illegal immigration, fighting terrorism, etc. are always on the back burner.

5
oh, and sugarry cereal. That's important, too.

6 Nice to see there are still issues that the Right and Left can agree on.

7 yawn

8 No matter how this shakes out, expect the Democrats to pick up additional seats in the House this November.

9 Planted some snapdragons today, what with the nice weather.

10
Here's the problem. It's not fair to allow homosexuals to be in, say, locker rooms where they get to see stuff they like.

I can't go into the ladies locker room at the gym and sneek peeks at T-n-A, so why is it fair for a gay dude to watch me undress? It's not. This sucks. And it's gonna hurt our military.

11

And it's gonna hurt our military.

Probably. And that's the reason for it.

 

12 Every time I fart out of my mouth, a Democrat wins a House seat in November.

13 Don't Feed The Concern Troll

14 Homosexuals have always served in the US Military, and there have been no real problems caused by that.

How many of those who signed that statement are old enough to have served in the military prior to Bill Clinton?  My dad told me once that some WWII vets had said there were some issues back then but that sort of stuff did not make the history books. 

15 Well whoopie fucking do!  Here's a thought, why not let the members of the military WHO WILL HAVE TO LIVE WITH THIS, vote on it. 

If you're going to have a big social experiment, why not let the mice decide?

16

My niece, 19 years old, recently announced that she likes chicks and would prefer to be a dude and is going to join the military and my point is...

I need to go lay down and rest.

17 Not to start a big row but I remember reading a well thoughtout article I believe written by a military guy that would disagree with the milbloggers. He gave a reasoned argument that this all had nothing to do with fairness or whether gays have always served or whatever argument for or against. He came to the conclusion that it is just another step in the overall plan to mainstream homosexuality. He convinced me.

18 In regards to DADT:  All I care about is that our military stays the most badass-est military evah.  If DADT helps us do that, then I'm for it.  If DADT doesn't help us do that, then I'm against it.

19 Don't Feed The Concern Troll

Posted by: Zimriel

 

Then ban him/her /it. If it doesn't deserve to be fed, then put it out of our misery.

 

This is the internet equiviant of telling children to ignore bullies when they are being punched in the head.

20 If homosexuality is allowed into the military, it will cause some initial issues for a few years(decade?), but eventually it will become no big deal just like integration of blacks in the military is generally no big deal now days. I'm ex-active duty and current NG, and everyone in my old active unit (cav) knew roughly who the few homosexuals were and honestly, nobody gave a rat's ass because the troopers didn't make an issue out of it. The disruption caused by female integration into the unit (heli mechs) was 100x worse.

21

Actually, giving the idiot troll room, Republicans falling over themselves to be considered "moderate" and persons associated with the military striving to promote policies which are absurd on their face have much in common. In our eagerness to be loved, or not derided, we do and say things that we ourselves can neither explain as being logical or consistant.

 

It's doubtful that all hygiene facilities on all ships and stations will be unisex all of the time. If this policy is enacted, are we ever going to see any new segregated hygience facilities or quarters? There would be no defensible reason for it.

22 I'm with Chemjeff @ 18.

23

I have a male cousin that demonstrated  feminie traits from the age of 3.  His twin brother was as manly and athletic as they come.   Ultimately, my cousin came to realize that he was gay, but it was long after everyone in the famliy knew that he was all along.  There  was no choice about it.   This was all nature and no nurture. It was present in him as a child. 

I think once I came to see homosexuality as inherent character trait, I toned down my rhetoric and softened my stance on gay rights.  What kid would chose to  come out as gay when gays are subject to ridicule, humiliation, and abuse?  Why did God make some people gay if he really felt they were immoral and a threat to the famliy?  What would Jesus do if he encountered a gay person? 

I suspect that there is more of a threat from heterosexual activity in the military than homosexual.  How about the military require all soldiers to keep in in their pants, boys and girls. 

Gay rights is a loser issuse for the Republican party.  This may not be true in all elections now , but if you look at the demographics and attitudes of the young, the Republicans will lose on this issue unless they become more tolerant.  (ie letting a gay rights group speak at CPAC, milboggers supporitng DADT reform). 

 

24 The only two I recognize are Blackfive and This Ain't Hell.  Isn't Jawa a milblog? 

Anyhoo, how many of these folks are active military and what are their ranks?  I think perspective shifts depending on those factors. 

25 25 I have a male cousin that demonstrated  feminie traits from the age of 3.

That's kinda funny since I've noticed that if you put toddlers in gender-neutral clothes, you usually can't tell what sex they are. 

Three seems like an awfully young age to assign gender. 

26 I trust the professionalism of our service members. I doubt we'll see Perez Hilton joining the Marines just because he can. I would venture to guess that many people who join the military do so out of a sense of duty to the county. Not really the kind of people who are prone to make a big deal out of their sexuality.

27 How is this going to save us from Happy Meals?

28 It's almost as if they are trying to make military service unappealing to men. Almost.

29


This petition, plus $2.50, will buy you a cup of coffee somewhere.

Fuck these pricks.  Moralistic preening fuckers.

30

"So have you toned down your rhetoric on other sexual preverence traits?"

If someone keeps their sex live private, and it is between consenting adults, I don't think it is my business.

 

 

31

California Red at May 12, 2010 03:07 PM (7uWb

Is pedophilia an inborn trait?

If it's an inborn trait I guess we gotta let them speak at CPAC.

32

I would hardly call it a loser issue. Gay marriage can't win a majority vote even in dep blue states. As for demographics, those same minorities who are gonna vault the Dems to power "forever" also have major problems with gays.

33

Dack Thrombosis at May 12, 2010 03:22 PM (P33XN)

Is pedophilia an inborn trait? If it's an inborn trait I guess we gotta let them speak at CPAC.

Right because rape of a child is the same as a relationship betwen consenting adults.

How enlightened you are.

 

 

34 I think it's fine to be gay and in the military, no problem.  But, this is not going to be a situation where DADT is repealed and then life in the military will go on without missing a beat. Being gay in America is more than just a lifestyle, it's a political statement.. By that, I mean all the gays in my office, ugh, you have to support gay marriage or gay this or gay that and gay rights, or the gay lifestyle.

And, of course, affirmative action for gays in the military will not be far behind.  Soldiers will be forced to attend sensitivity trainings to learn about the gay lifestyle (cuz, that's just how our military is). There will be pressure to hire gays in certain positions...cuz they're gay.  Gays will insist on separate social activities for gays only (or lesbians); if anyone doesn't get promoted, it will be because they're gay (and just like with the guy in the Ft. Hood shooting who got promoted only becuase of affirmative action, the military will probably start promoting people because they're gay...I'm sure that directive will come directly from the CIC, who will want to see the military make up for past "discrimination").

On the battlefield and in combat, people are right when they say it shouldn't matter.  But, what life will be like when soldiers are off the battlefield is where things will change. I kinda like how it is in Japan, where you can be openly gay in the military, but most gays choose not to be because they don't want to be singled out.  (I wonder if the US military will make it so gays will HAVE TO be open about it...checking it off on a box or something)

35

Calling bullshit, I thought Title IX had put paid to "athleticism" as a marker for "manliness" you fucking sexist. But I'm not Red, or Californian, and furthermore GI Joe is an Action Figure.

It's twattle like that that blurs the difference between Homos We Can Live With and what y'all are really representin', the Shock the Kids at the Reunion and Insult Your Parents for Imagined Slights Movement. Fully 90% of currently practicing "gays" (and almost everyone who uses the word "gay") are not real homosexuals at all, just devotees of the ruby-slipper brigade.

In the book, you know, her shoes were silver. It's all about WJ Bryan.

36

Right because rape of a child is the same as a relationship betwen consenting adults.

How enlightened you are.

Hey, I'm just holding you to your own standard. You implied homosexuality is a trait someone is born with. So if you're born with pedophilia, that's just normal too, right? So we have to indulge their demands too, right?

 

37

California Red let me ask you.  Is your brother manly and very athletic?

I have no brother.  I am talking about my cousins.  And my point was wasn't that gays cannot be athletic.  My point was that these two fraternal twins, raised in the same household, each demonstrated significantly different character traits, from a very early age.   One was more sterotypical heterosexual male with the sporting interests, and one that in hindsight was very feminine and gay.  

  

38

Ultimately, my cousin came to realize that he was gay, but it was long after everyone in the famliy knew that he was all along

I bet that had nothing to do with it at all.

 This was all nature and no nurture

I like to say things that contradict myself. Everything I say is consistent.

One time I got a free toaster for opening a bank account. I had to pay $500.00 for it. But it was completely free of charge.

39 Dack Thrombosis:  You do not have to give a platform to NAMBLA, but you sure seem to be lobbying hard for it.   

40

 What kid would chose to  come out as gay when gays are subject to ridicule, humiliation, and abuse?

Oh, FFS.

What kid would choose to wear black masscara, eyeliner, black hair die, dress in all black and listen Type O Negative all day long and intentionally snub all his classmates by claiming he was better than, and refusing to participate in, all of thier stupid fadish crap?

I mean, that's gonna win him so many friends.

Some people are attention whores - any kind of attention. Others are masochists, or have self esteem issues. Some feel a desperate impulse to distinguish themselves as seperate or unusual.

41

California Red at May 12, 2010 03:39 PM (7uWb

Nice dodge there, amigo.

Is pedophilia an inborn trait like homosexuality?

If it is, you must support normalizing pedophilia according to your position stated above.

That's gonna make you real popular at family gatherings.

42

Everytime I hear someone say that the military has a DADT policy, I want to smack them.  The military didn't think up that gem, a former president and our elected representatives did.  They are the ones that are politically correct, brown-nosing, ass monkeys.  Well, OK, some flag officers fall into that category, too.  As for the milbloggers, I think their point is that they'll do what soldiers always do:  go where they're sent and do what they're told.  I think they are just saying that they are professionals and there won't be any problems from professional soldiers.  They're not endorsing it, just acknowledging the inevitability of it and they're stating that they don't think there will be a backlash.  During all this bs about repealing DADT, a lot of MFM types are trying to say that gays may be in real danger from soldiers, sailors, and airmen.  That's a load of crap.  Nearly all of them can follow this order no matter how much they hate it.  Recruitment might take a hit, though.  As for DADT itself, it was very successful at what it was designed to do:  foster mainstream acceptance of gays serving in the military.  The fight to keep them closeted was lost the day the policy was made.  This argument is happening about 17 years too late.  Score yet another one for the sneaky libs.

43

You do not have to give a platform to NAMBLA, but you sure seem to be lobbying hard for it.   

None of which addresses the question.

Not that the ACTS are equitable, but are they both present at birth?

44

Good point Entropy.  I guess it is true that the famliy, having seen these traits early on, could have subconsciously nutured his homosexuality throughout his lifetime.  But the traits were demonstrated so early on that I am convinced that there was something genetic going on. 

I am not looking to make enemies. I  just wanted to give kudos to the milbloggers that are obviously going to take some heat from this position.  

45 Repealing DADT is a horrible idea for one simple reason: PC fear will force officers to allow subpar performance from gays. Don't believe it will happen? Pretty sure the Ft. Hood shooter got a free pass on his horrible record cause he was muslim. Until gays are subjected to the same standards as straights, which we all know they won't be, DADT should remain.

46

I don't know if pedophilia is an inherent trait or not.  I guess if I had to say I would say that it is.  I certainly beleive that once a pedophile always a pedophile.   

Does that undermine my original argument? No.  Homosexuality is no longer criminal.  The percentage of the population that wants to grant homosexulas rights is growing.  If you look at the breakdown of gay rights support by age, it is obvious to see that in the future opposing gay rights will be a political loser.  There is no similiar trend towards granting pedophiles rights.   

 

47

But the traits were demonstrated so early on that I am convinced that there was something genetic going on. 

Because he had feminine 'traits'? So what. Effete does not mean gay.

Which is possibly the screwiest part of your argument, implicit within it is the assertion that all homo dudes are effete sissies and all hetero's are John McClane.

What if the butch sports guy had craved cock and the effete dude had become a hairdresser because he liked looking down chick's blouses? 

For that matter, every person has both traits that can be described as generally masculine and generally feminine. Individuals fall on a spectrum, not into boolean types.

There MAY HAVE been something genetic going on. But that doesn't translate into sexual preferance in and of itself.

48

Hooray, another post on homosexuality.

Color me surprised.

49

As for 'no one would choose to be gay', what the hell about bisexuals?

They choose gay relationships all the time, when they'll fully conceed they'd find a straight one potentially just as satisfactory.

50 So, how many posts on this kind of topic would convince Malor's friends and family that maybe there's something genetic going on?

51

"implicit within it is the assertion that all homo dudes are effete sissies and all hetero's are John McClane"

I disagree.  I only suggest that in this case, there was an early affinity for flowers, dolls, and acting in plays, along with a rejection of any organized sporitng activity.  It turn out the kid was gay.  And to me, there was enough of a link to demonstrate that genetics played a role in this kids sexual identity.

This was a freaking anecdote.  Not sweeping broad generalizations or a scientific study. 

52

I'm not aware of homosexuality itself being widely "illegal". Sodomy was illegal, and those laws were overturned about seven years ago by the SCOTUS. Not that the authorities widely enforced them anyway. They were used to arrest homosexuals, although engaging in sodomy with a woman could also technically lead to your detention.

Societies disapprove of homosexuality because it's subversive.

53

Hooray, another post on homosexuality.

Color me surprised.

If someone throws up a post on boobs, I'm there.

54

If someone throws up a post on boobs, I'm there.

Dack, you and I see eye to eye on something at least.

55

Quick question, DADT repeal advocates: Why aren't men and women allowed to share close quarters and do things like shower together in the military?

 

 

56 Yeah, that never gets an answer.

57 I completely accept that gay men can restrain themselves sexually in a room where a gender they're attracted to is changing or going to the bathroom.

But here's my question: Why can't I go into the ladies dressing room or bathroom? I can restrain myself sexually, right? Yet my clear rights to do whatever the fuck I want are denied.

We heterosexual males shall overcome!

58 Seriously, I'm expected to accept something about gays that society doesn't accept about me: That I can restrain myself sexually.

Gay men can clearly restrain themselves in a room where a gender they're attracted to is changing or going to the bathroom. Why, it's just fine and natural.

Straight men clearly can't be trusted to restrain themselves in a room where a gender they're attracted to is changing or going to the bathroom. Wanting otherwise is usually perverted and unnatural.

59

Yeah, that never gets an answer.

No, it doesn't.  Heteros keep getting told that the gay sexual drive should be considered the same...and as a hetero, I know why I don't bunk and shower with a bunch of men.

60 OK, brutal honesty time. I have showered with gay men. Guess what, I'm still straight as they come and no one tried to man rape me. Really the homos aren't going to want to touch your wangs. Know what caused strife in my unit in peace time? Stupid chicks banging every damn guy in the barracks depending on what week it was. Adultery in the married folks. Loaning of money to scum bags who wouldn't pay back. Barring rape, I could care less what consenting adults are doing behind closed doors. I'm also pretty sure we could have co ed showers in the military and life would go on. Last time I checked, we have male medics treating females and somehow they restrain themselves from playing fondle monkey. Really the military is professional, and the regulations can be adjusted to account for the crap that happens.

61 If the troops are for it, I'm for it.

62

I tell you this.

If I'm in the navy with Eric Massa, I'm not in the navy. I'm getting court martialled.

Cuz if someone tries to snorkle me while I'm sleeping I kick their ass. That's sexual assault.

63

Dude I am totally with Benson on this one.

END BATHROOM SEGREGATION NOW!

64

Two words:  Anne Heche.

Meanwhile Queers most always trot out the old:  Who would wish this....; while trying to force gay shit into the elementary schools. 

The point about that fucker Hassan is right on the money!

65

Guess what, I'm still straight as they come and no one tried to man rape me.

Good grief.  It's not raping that people are concerned about.

 Really the homos aren't going to want to touch your wangs.

You're psychic?  Uh-huh.  Tell me, if you were surrounded by a bunch of naked women, Mr Straight As They Come, you wouldn't "want" to touch ANYTHING?

Stupid chicks banging every damn guy in the barracks depending on what week it was.

...and of course that's the chick's fault, not the fault of all the guys she was banging.  We all know that men are just so restrained -- especially gay men -- that such behavior would never ever happen once gays were rooming and showering together.

66

Really the homos aren't going to want to touch your wangs.

Then why can't you shower with women?

I mean ... it just seems odd. Put me in a shower full of nekkid women, and I can guarantee I'm gonna want to get an eyefull of the naughty bits of at least one or two of them.

But the gay guys just have this superhuman restraint that us straight fellas don't, huh?

 

 

67

Really the homos aren't going to want to touch your wangs.

Oh, totally. We just want to have us a good old fashioned tickle fight. And if someone's testicles get grazed by a tickle seeking finger or two, well, what's the harm?

68

Really the homos aren't going to want to touch your wangs.

Oh, and tell that to the 50-something gay dude who once chatted me up in a gym locker room while stealing peeks at me as I got dressed.

69 BB - Time and place dependent, if I'm doing my job, then no. If I'm at a orgy/party then it would be game on. I guess I expect people to be professional. How do you explain male doctors having female patients? Or are you against that? EM - That's called BJJ. ;-) Warden - Did you try and confront him about it? It's amazing what a lil "what the f are you checking me out for, you rude mother f'r" will do, but I guess I tend towards the aggressive side instead of being someone's passive bitch. Now if this whole shower situation is that big of deal, simple solution, individual stalls.

70 Are there still people that think being gay is a choice? Seriously? Really? Wow.

71

Warden - Did you try and confront him about it?

It took me awhile to figure out what the fuck was up with the dude. Finally, I said, "Is there something I can fucking help you with?" Maybe not the best line in hindsight.

He just mumbled something and scurried off. He steered clear of me after that. But that isn't the point. The point is gay men, just like straight men, will act on their sexual impulses.

I guess I tend towards the aggressive side instead of being someone's passive bitch.

Mmmhmm.

You can always look me up if you feel the need to test my level of aggression.

72 And you still haven't answered the question. Why don't military men and women cohabitate?

73 See Warden, you solved the problem and I will bet that guy never tried to again. Remember, in the military you would be within a unit of guys that you work/live with on a daily basis for a long time. That alone will keep most gays in check from making themselves targets. No one wants to be a problem child.

74 SGT: Dammit Lieutenant, Private Huckleberry is the worst fucking soldier I've ever seen. He should be discharged. LT: Can't, he's gay. SGT: Then let's discipline him. I don't care what his personal preferences are, but he damn well better shape up. Let's write him up or make him scrub toilets. He's worse than useless. LT: Can't, he's gay. SGT: Well what in the sam hell do you suggest? LT: Let's promote him.

75 Warden, you are right. They probably do want want to look at our wangs, but I'm leaning towards professionalism and fear of retribution will keep unwanted conduct to a minimum.

76

This is a conversation we had at the Moron Meetup in LA a few months back.  Here was my take as a Vet:

 

When I was stationed in Germany back in the late 80's I was hit on twice.  I was in an Infantry unit, one was in my same unit, the other stationed at a nearby base.  The problem wasn't so much being hit on, as both times that it happened I simply said that wasnt my thing, they apologized, and moved on.  The problem was after the fact.  I now knew the person in my unit that was gay was at some point going to continue using the same open bay showers (there were no private facilities) and being forced to be in close, contained locations with little to no privacy with me and others.  To say "They dont check out straights" it a total fallacy, they do.  How the hell else are they going to find their partners?  Obviously they dont wear name tags or signs.  Just as men approach women, they will approach men.

Unless or until the military figures out a way to segregate private living space (showers, bathrooms, etc) I am against the repeal of DADT as I said at the meetup.  Are there ways of doing that?  Of course.  Jack-and-Jill bathrooms are one way I suggested, as well as going to strictly single-man rooms.  It would be very expensive to remodel all the bases to accomodate that, but as long as standard privacy issues are addressed so that those that are straight can feel unexposed in typical daily life I think theres no issue with having openly gay (or gay at all) servicemembers.  Until then it does cause discomfort, and should not be supported in my opinion.

Another issue the military would have to deal with is just how "open" can someone be?  I think it might cause a bit of a stir if your First Sergeant were walking down the street dressed like he just came back from the San Fran Gay Pride Parade.  So what constitutes acceptable behavior/dress?  The military, under the UCMJ, can court martial someone for "conduct prejudice to the good order and descipline" of the military.  Would cross dressing fall under that?  Would dressing like Mr. Slave in South Park?  How, once you open the doors to "openly gay" do you then restrict or discriminate against what is "gay behavior"?  Certainly most gays don't dress or act any different than straight people, but there are absolutely some that do.  How do you deal with them?  Do you forbid it?  If so, why is it ok to descriminate against the fringe of the gay community and not the community as a whole?  I think before anything is done and set in stone, there are still a lot of questions to address, and aswers to be had.  Simply opening the floodgates will hurt in the short term more than thinking things thru and being prepared in the long run.

Despite all Ive said, I do support allowing gays to serve, I just feel it has to be done correctly from the outset, and not quickly simply because "Its time".  That's the reason we ended up with the president we have now, hows that working out for us?

77 Wow, I can't believe the idiocy quotient in this thread. Though I really shouldn't be surprised, homosexuality tends to bring out the stupids. First off, if you've never served keep your mouth shut. You have no idea about the social dynamic of a military unit (here's a hint: LT's don't tell enlisted what to do. NCO's tell enlisted and LT's what to do) I'm 6 weeks away from finishing an 8 year tour as one of Hyman's Heroes, in my division we have a gay guy. Everyone who can pick him out by name knows he's gay. He's no superstar but he's also no shitbag. He's a standard, middle of the road, reliable sailor. People have no issue changing in front of him or taking showers at the same time. Does he get made fun of because he's gay? Oh, fuck yes. But he gets teased as much, if not more, for being a ginger. He's not the first homosexual in the department, and he won't be the last. In fact all the homosexuals put together (including the lesbian that got knocked up at a party, still can't figure that one out) have resulted in less drama than one heterosexual couple. If you were really concerned about good order and discipline you'd get women off ships, but then I hope you're willing to volunteer to fill the place of the 5 women I'd lose out of my division, because we're already at 55% manning and we can't cut much more.

78 #88 - Dirty Blueshirt
I think you have summed the situation perfectly. It is a matter of discipline. If everybody adheres to the same standard of discipline and decorum there should be no problems. Whether its the military or business world, you don't dip your pen in company ink. When you do, count on trouble and expect to be disciplined or fired.

For those concerned about being hit on, once is flattering, twice is annoying and three times is harassment.  That rule can be applied in the military or corporate world to males and females alike. Convey your non-interest. Only a jerk, male or female will ignore your wishes.

I have not served in the military and if I could do it all over again, I would absolutely make sure I did a stint or two. So to all who have served, thank you.