1 Seaman MadCow reporting for duty.

2 Thanks again FiftyTwo Percenters, you fucking fucks.

3 Do submarines have booster seats?

4 Up periscope?  Tubes cleared?

5 This is a horrid idea.

And besides, what kind of woman would WANT to live with dozens of guys and recirculated air for six months? Guys fart. A lot.

One trip and they'd be demanding to be transferred. Just like I would.

6 Can't we just give the wimens on of their own subs?  Course would it still have the same shape?  less cigar and more O shaped?

_{I'm going straight to hell, I know.}

7 Priorities. 

I'm sure glad the adults are in charge.

8

Wait till its that time of the month in one of those sweaty cans. It'll give new meaning to the word tin-fish.

9 Sounds like my dream date.  Seamen everywhere.

10

More Social Engineering in the Military?

......Shocking.....Never saw that coming!.....The next thing you know they are gonna try to get rid of "Don't ask Don't Tell."

 

11 My guess is that the reason there is a push for this is a lack of males qualified for nuke duty.  I read somewhere that ASVAB scores are dropping.  If I recall correctly you need at least at 110 AR+WK to qualify for nuke school. 

That said I am leery of the idea.  Everyone on a sub has to go on the rad health program.  That just doesn't seem like a good idea for women of child-bearing age.

12 The public only can pay attention to so many issues at once, gays in the military and women on subs shouldn't be getting all the attention.

Hmm, it's almost like it's on purpose or something.

13 What we need are more transgendered submariners.  Think about how awesome it would be to combine the "Crying Game" with "Run Silent, Run Deep"

14  Why not have all-women crewed subs?

Then watch the fun as they try to parallel park it!

/s

15

Thing is, unless I missed a memo, life isn't fair

I didn't burn my Bra to put up with this Sexism. You didn't get the Memo? Well how about I Jam it up your Ass next time you Vast Right Wing Conspiratour!

16 Women on submarines?

Judging from the comments of moronettes towards me in Red October, I'd never get any work done

17 Come on guys, it will be just like "Priscilla, Queen of the Desert" meets "20,000 Leagues Under the Sea"!

18 Why don't they just put lesbians on all the subs and knock-out 2 birds with one stone, or dildo.

19 The only women in the military who should be allowed on subs are officers. I believe there are actually rules that prevent anybody from getting to Admiral without sub service in the Nuclear program, so it is kind of a glass ceiling. I can see both sides.

Personally I would rather have my nails ripped out rather than being sunk in a can for 6 months.

20

"It'll give new meaning to the word tin-fish."

Hadn't considered that.  The earlier complaint - sweaty, stinky males, and all the farts.  No prob.  Nose clips and those tubular rebreathing devices.

 

21 America elected a far left, progressive Democrat for president.  This is what far left, progressive Democrats do.

22

Jealous.  At least somebody's getting laid out there.  \#$%^*

23 When I worked in Medical while with the Navy Seabees, a lot and I mean a lot of my fellow female sailors got pregnant on purpose to not deploy.  Now is that "fair" to the male sailors?  Answer is a big fat no. It's common to try to get out of any deployment and it's no secret.  Conditions on subs are way different than on a ship.  Oh well, I'm sure the kooks will look to Canada, because their Navy is awesome.

24 OT (but it seems to be a slow day)
Skater Plushenko of Russia, who came in second, has awarded himself a platinum medal for performing a quad jump at the olympics, unlike our guy who actually won.

Also, Hot Air links an article indicating there's a movement to get pole dancing admitted as an olympic event.  Which makes sense, as they included trampoline for about the same reason.

25 Fire the pink torpedo!

26 Putting on mascara in the rear view mirror while driving the damn thing...

27 Gee I think this is an incredibly stupid PC idea. I know many of my shipmates who are female are for this, but I don't see the need. Kinda like I don't really see the need for Muslim Shrinks in the Army? Yeah that worked out well in the name of diversity ha?

28 Commence Operation Petticoat!

29 The real question is: Will women Muslim sailors be able to wear the hijab at sea? Diversity is our profession in the US military.

30 those were the same whack liberals that wanted the military desegregated back in the 40s Why are they always trying to change America ?

31 Kelsey Grammer should be the first to command a submarine crewed by women officers. 

32

gays in the military and women on subs shouldn't be getting all the any attention.

 

fixed.

33

Women on submarines?

That's a great idea!

Oh...and we could have Abortion Clinic in each Sub. Oooh....and instead of Missles on the Subs, why not use that space for a Hair and Nail Salons? That should shatter that Glass Ceiling once and for all.

Yeah..Yeah..Thats' the Ticket! 

34 Hey, I saw Barbara Eden dance on the mess table in Walter Pidgeon's Seaview, in "Voyage to the Bottom of the Sea." So Irwin Allen was truly a visionary. I can't wait for household robots to look like the one from "Lost in Space."

35

"Fire the pink torpedo! "

Heat & moisture seeking?  Exploding head?

36 The real question is: Will women Muslim sailors be able to wear the hijab at sea? Diversity is our profession in the US military.

Well we certainly can't let diversity become a casualty.

37 I never knew how much friggin' in the riggin' actually went on until I joined the USCG.

Wow.

Lots of sex.
Lots of adultery.
Lots of pregnancies.
Lots and lots of STDs.

Wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!

38 Personally just being on a Sub for a few hours cured me of any urge to volunteer.

39 Pets in the military..... that's really the new social frontier for our armed services....cat's, hamsters, dogs..... they boost moral, eat scrap food, lower the heart rate of their owners, help make the senses more accute... it's an a-political issue.... why waste the oppurtunity here?

40 It's fine. As long as the spank-a-toriums are stocked with plenny o' jergins.

41 31 those were the same whack liberals that wanted the military desegregated back in the 40s Why are they always trying to change America ?

Once again, Noah lets his stupid light shine.  Hey dumbass, tell me the President who reintroduced racial segregation into federal service jobs after Reconstruction?

/Hint, he's hailed as a "progressive hero".

42 o/t:  Why does o'really insist on having Mark Lamont Hill and combs on?  They both are two shams.  IMHO

43 Oh...and we could have Abortion Clinic in each Sub. Oooh....and instead of Missles on the Subs, why not use that space for a Hair and Nail Salons? That should shatter that Glass Ceiling once and for all.

a lot and I mean a lot of my fellow female sailors got pregnant on purpose to not deploy

And here's where it blows up.  Anyone want to guess how long it is before the Obama administration pushes funding of abortions for women so they can be deployed like anyone else?  Not necessarily mandatory, but if publicly funding abortions is enough to sink Obamacare in the end...

44

women on subs?  excellent!!!

come on, someone has to do the cooking (you bring the sandwich, i'll bring the seaman)

45 Soon enough they'll let women in BUD/S. That'll be the day the Navy decides that being PC is more important than killing our enemies and supporting the country.

46 When women are in close proximity they tend to synchronize menses. There will be hell to pay once a month.

47

The real question is: Will women Muslim sailors be able to wear the hijab at sea?

Of Course, we feel religous freedom is the number priority on a Nuclear Sub! Besides...it adds an element of Mystery....good for foreplay...

48 No way. I'd go all Dr. Amy Bishop on someone's ass the first day. I hate living with women. We suck worse than men. At least with men, give them head and a sandwich in front of the tv and you have peace. A bunch of PMSy bitches roped up together? NOOOOOOOO.

49 48. Except in the case of the crucifix, the Bible, holy cards,.. ya know.

50 Soon enough they'll let women in BUD/S. That'll be the day the Navy decides that being PC is more important than killing our enemies and supporting the country. Posted by: 4thGenerationBuck at February 23, 2010 08:15 PM (AtjNL) Well there are one or two female corpsman in my unit I would not advise you mess with.

51 45 women on subs?  excellent!!!

come on, someone has to do the cooking (you bring the sandwich, i'll bring the seaman)

You salty dog, you!

52 oh, for the record, the female berthings on ships are fucking nasty compared to the guys.  sorry gals but baby powder and perfume doesn't cover up funk.

53 47 When women are in close proximity they tend to synchronize menses. There will be hell to pay once a month.

Isn't there some pill that delays the menses onset?  Wouldn't be a cure-all, but there would be only be hell to pay every other month, or hell every three months.

54 When will the military emerge from its neanderthal mindset and allow the blind and deaf to pilot combat planes? We don't allow discrimination on skin color, and things like sex, number of limbs, having or not having eyes and hearing should all be treated equally. Come on, people. How would letting a corpse drive the boat hurt you? Our elegant President likes corpse-men, and he said as much. Stupid wingnuts. I suppose you would have a problem with a quadraplegic dentist filling your teeth, if you wingers had any.

55

Will women Muslim sailors be able to wear the hijab at sea?

dude, civilian hat sunday!!

i used to wear the muslim head dress on sundays for fun!  had to take it off for boardings though (pc bullshit)

56
Just wait till the sonar operator starts applying mascara while pursuing a Russian Boomer doing Crazy Ivans through the Hudson canyon

57 16

Thing is, unless I missed a memo, life isn't fair

I didn't burn my Bra to put up with this Sexism. You didn't get the Memo? Well how about I Jam it up your Ass next time you Vast Right Wing Conspiratour!

Posted by: Hillary R. Clinton at February 23, 2010 08:02 PM (fqxV7)

As long as I get to jam mine, up yours, for being a fucking carpetbagger

58

When women are in close proximity they tend to synchronize menses. There will be hell to pay once a month.

Yep.....That would be a show I would pay a months salary to see! Just imagine 100 parakeets locked in a small cage with 100 Tom Cats! Fun..Fun..Fun! 

59 Like I've always said, it's all about sowing chaos in our nation. That is the intention behind every single policy The Precedent pursues. How much more proof do people need? Women on subs? WTF?

60

Women on submarines?  That's a great idea!

<mysogyny>

I'm not sure it's a good idea to have women anywhere near nuclear missiles when That Time of the Month strikes.

</mysogyny>

61

"Isn't there some pill that delays the menses onset?  "

Fertilized eggs'll cure that

62

we discussed this subject before. As i said then, i bet the next issue will be the navy paying for abortions.

 

this is bad news.

 

can you imagine the movie "hunt for red october"  with women? Those russians don't take a dump without a plan.

63 You don't menstruate when you're pregnant, though, so probably only half the women would have the PMS going.

64 The over/under for seamen jokes in this thread is 8.  Place your bets now.

65 it is kind of a glass ceiling

Who cares?! The Navy doesn't exist to provide gender-equal career opportunities.




When I worked in Medical while with the Navy Seabees, a lot and I mean a lot of my fellow female sailors got pregnant on purpose to not deploy.  Now is that "fair" to the male sailors?

I think it's neither fair nor unfair. Biology simply is what it is.

66 58
Just wait till the sonar operator starts applying mascara while pursuing a Russian Chinese Boomer doing Crazy Ivans Hans through the Hudson canyon.

Fixed that.  Doesn't Russia's Navy suck big ones these days?

67

DrewM.  And then there are living space issues and consideration and on and on and on.

Really?  Issues like what we have with the idea of straights and gays serving together openly?

Seriously, if we don't have a problem with gay men and straight men showering together, hotbunking together, and generally living together in the most intimate circumstances with no privacy what-so-ever, why should we have a problem with males and females serving together in the same situation?

 

68 #64  Fertilized eggs'll cure that.

What's that?  I thought babies were delivered by the stork, *confused*.

69 One word, Ed:
Pregnancy.


Okay, and two more:
premenstrual syndrome.

70

I've heard stories of females coming back from deployments (or duty on ship)  with duffel bags full of cash.  And the Nimitz-class (is that right?) aircraft carriers are supposed to have pregnancy rates well over 50%.

I have a question for the Moronettes.  What the hell makes women demand shit like this in the military?  Leaving aside the physical strength and gender-relations issues, a lot of the duty they're demanding blows.  I spent a few hours on a nuclear fast attack sub back in '01, and have no desire to spend three months on that thing with no sunshine.  Combat arms jobs?  Combat is horrible.  It's adrenaline and fear and you have to pick up dead bodies when it's over. 

I wonder if their demands for equality will include them demanding to be eligible for the draft.  Though I'm not holding my breath...

71 40 Pets in the military..... that's really the new social frontier for our armed services....cat's, hamsters, dogs..... they boost moral, eat scrap food, lower the heart rate of their owners, help make the senses more accute... it's an a-political issue.... why waste the oppurtunity here?

Because they just can't get the cats to salute

72 Guys, forget about the synched menses. Imagine the synched ovulation. No man on that ship would be safe.

73 I'll be money these same women sailors will start whining to the captain not to fire the torpedoes because there's a dolphin nearby.

74 73.

I've often wondered the same thing.

Front lines? Oooh, oooh, pick me! Pick me!
 
Shitty sub duty? Me! Me!

75 Why not just have a day care center on the sub?

76

hnn, funk?, sorry that's the smell of mens unwashed shorts (skids) sorry I'm not

impewaaws with menslong tales of disdain, at least we wash our rears.

77 Finally, a cure for the lonely hearts on the ONT. Join the Navy and go down under!

78

@70

Two and Half Issues.....

1.) Rape

2.) Pregnancy

3.) Seperate Quarters

79 Except when they're synch-mensing --- then it's DOLPHIN HUNTIN' TIME!

80 75 Guys, forget about the synched menses. Imagine the synched ovulation.

Another "blessing" that the Lord Hades/Miss'80sbaby union has brought to the world.

/Why did they make that thing of biology?  Hell if I know.

81 Comrades! In America, sub goes down on YOU!

82

I've heard stories of females coming back from deployments (or duty on ship)  with duffel bags full of cash.  And the Nimitz-class (is that right?) aircraft carriers are supposed to have pregnancy rates well over 50%.

I have a question for the Moronettes.  What the hell makes women demand shit like this in the military?

Judging from the prior paragraph, I'd say they have an eye for opportunity.

83

Can't we just give the wimens on of their own subs?

Hell, they just began launching the USS Vagina class a few years ago... oh, wait - USS Virginia.  Okay so sue me, but the second boat in the class is the USS Shewolf!  Yeah!

... um, what?  What?!

84 impressed*

85 Question for submariners:

How do the pipes work on that thing, with regards to:

PLEASE DO NOT FLUSH FEMININE HYGIENE PRODUCTS! THANKS!
MGMT

86 At last, someone to wash the windows and change the screens.

87 It'll go from the whackinest to slappin'est ships in the navy

88 72 One word, Ed:
Pregnancy.


Okay, and two more:
premenstrual syndrome.

Posted by: Cathy at February 23, 2010 08:25 PM (b0AML)

So?  We have standing orders prohibiting adultry in general  and sex on deployments.  Soldiers aren't allowed to have sex in Afghanistan and Iraq.  I see no difference between that and a sub deployment.

And as for PMS, that happens on subs and off.  Not an issue.

89 How do the pipes work on that thing, with regards to: PLEASE DO NOT FLUSH FEMININE HYGIENE PRODUCTS! THANKS! MGMT Posted by: Cathy at February 23, 2010 08:29 PM (b0AML) Collect them in the freezer and shot them out the torpedo tubs

90

82

"Ma'am, there seems to be a fishing trawler in our way."

"SINK IT!"

"But Ma'am, is that--"

"Sink it!  SINK IT! MOVE YOUR ASS I'LL PUSH THE GODDAM BUTTON!"

91

is this how you guys really feel?

seriously you look at your wives daughters and think they wouldmn't fight to the finish when they knew the score?

92 I hope that the subs have seats that automatically return to the "down" position in the bathrooms. Just sayin'

93

...the fuck?? This thread is naaaasty.

94 Ed,

If I get knocked up two weeks into a sub mission, y'all are gonna surface so I can get ashore and get proper care, right?

PMS on a ship = Black Cat Bottle Rocket
PMS on a sub = Hiroshima

95 All anyone would have to do to ensure full ferocity in any female is to threaten her children (assuming she had any). That'll get you a nice reaction right goddamn now. Still, why the hell a woman, a mother, would want sub duty is faaaar beyond me.

96 81

@70

Two and Half Issues.....

1.) Rape

2.) Pregnancy

3.) Seperate Quarters

Posted by: Jimi at February 23, 2010 08:28 PM (fqxV7)

 

The first two also apply to duty in Iraq, yet we still allow women and men to serve together.

The third?  Why should women and men be separated when gays and straights wouldn't be separated?

97 Janet Napolitano could get duty on a sub without any change in the rules.

98 Posted by: willow at February 23, 2010 08:31 PM (7FgWm)

Plenty of the jokes here don't work for me, but I'm in favor of all-straight-male crews for deployments of close quarters and extended time periods.

99 This is a terrible idea.  As a former submariner (four years, seven strategic deterrent patrols) onboard an SSBN, I know that this will be a problem logistically.  We had women onboard for two days a couple of times.  During that time, our crew was inconvenienced in major ways.  We had one watchstanders' head near the control room (secured for female use) and had two heads in the missile compartment (one secured during the morning for female use).  Also mentioned earlier was the fact that women who get pregnant are not deployable; that is absolutely true.  Also, there are heavy items onboard submarines that women can have difficulty carrying by themselves (OBAs, submersible pumps, heavy-duty hoses).  A submarine is a fighting vessel, not a social experimentation lab.  This just makes me angry.

100

@91

Ed,

The day one actually belives that human nature can be controlled in such close quaters is the day pigs fly!

101 What happens when a nuclear missile boat is on patrol and two of the crew get pregnant? Does it surface and return to port?

This is just flat out insane.

102 80 Finally, a cure for the lonely hearts on the ONT. Join the Navy and go down under!

Posted by: George Orwell at February 23, 2010 08:28 PM (AZGON

giggle, thanks for that,  I spit my wine onto my lap

103

So?  We have standing orders prohibiting adultry in general  and sex on deployments.  Soldiers aren't allowed to have sex in Afghanistan and Iraq. 

Hahaha.  Seriously?  You think that stops ANYBODY?  You're not a vet, are you?

104 Commence rant! Commence rant! Rant at will! 1. Do we really need diversity, Admiral Mullen? I mean, this word, I do not think it has the value attached to it that you think it does. Is it possible that we sacrifice operational readiness and combat effectiveness in the pursuit of this nebulous ideal? 2. Submariners whose wisdom teeth have not come in hot straight and normal get them pulled. I know, because while mine were not in yet, and my panoramic dental x-ray clearly showed they were not causing any problems, I still ended up having all four them yanked out. Why? No dentists on subs. No room to accommodate one if we wanted to. Any health problems resulting from a bad wisdom tooth could compromise the mission of the sub just to medevac me. Better to pull them now than send me to sea and hope for the best. My point? Women have unique health problems, pregnancy being one of the most obvious, and submarines don't have doctors on board (we have a Corpsmen), nor can we just call for a helo to come and take someone to another ship/shore station when we are off on a mission or deterrence patrol (Stealth is our only defense, and we are only stealthy if we are submerged). Of course he has to bring up the pregnancy trope! It isn't like 12% of female crew members are getting pregnant or anything in any given year... (This is a number that has been tossed around based on average pregnancies for all enlisted Navy females ship and shore based. Actual numbers for ship based females are unknown to the public - the Navy is extremely reluctant to talk about this subject for some reason...) Now 12% of all female crew members may not sound like a lot, and in absolute numbers, they are not. What we must consider is that every warm body that doesn't go on a six month WestPAC or a strategic deterrence patrol is a warm body whose place must be taken by someone. Often that someone is not available, and so said pregnant warm body's job must be covered for by the rest of her division. Want to know what that's like? Go to work for six hours. Go home for six hours. Go back to work for six hours. Go home for six hours. Lather. Rinse. Repeat. Every day. FOR SIX MONTHS. If you are flight deck crew on a carrier, it's already eighteen on and six off, seven days a week, so instead you'll just have to work even harder... On a submarine, the typical crew is between 120 and 150, depending on class and manning levels for that boat. With 20% of the crew female, a 12% attrition rate comes out to 3 women going home or staying home on the low end, or 4 women on the high end. The boat can survive this kind of attrition. But it comes at a cost. For every woman left behind, that is a man who cannot go to specialized training courses he needs to do his job and advance his career. That is a man who cannot take leave to visit his family because the boat can only spare so many of its crew at any given time. That is a serious fucking morale and retention problem. Why do they have to leave? Other than that's the official regs, and putting aside the wisdom of allowing pregnant women to participate in lethal combat, radiation limits for pregnant women are very very low. 50 millirem for the duration of the pregnancy. A female who stands a watch near the reactor, or who serves as an ELT drawing off primary coolant (water from the reactor) for analysis, or who sleeps or stands watch in proximity to nuclear weapons could conceivably run afoul of these limits. This means she must either be removed from the boat, or shunted to a watch away from these areas. If there isn't another female who can replace her, a man must do it. This may well cause morale problems, especially if the pregnancy precludes her from going to sea - there just isn't a lot of excess crew standing around to take up her slack, and let me tell you, just in case you didn't already figure it out, six hours on six hours off for weeks on end gets old real fucking quick. 3. For many of the divisions on a submarine, the job entails brute force. Yep, that sexist pig is playing the "girls are wimpy" card. Pig. Meanwhile, back in the real world, pipes and valves and air compressors and other machinery are heavy. Let me repeat that, with added emphasis. PIPES, VALVES, AIR COMPRESSORS, HEAT EXCHANGERS, TORPEDOES, CAPTOR MINES, CRUISE MISSILES, BOXES OF TDU WEIGHTS, CYLINDERS OF FREON, PIPING RISICS, SEAWATER PUMPS, AND OTHER SUBMARINE PARAPHERNALIA ARE FUCKING HEAVY. YOU HAVE NO IDEA HOW MASSIVE THESE THINGS ARE UNTIL YOU'VE TRIED LIFTING/MOVING THEM UP TWENTY FOOT VERTICAL LADDERS AND THROUGH WATERTIGHT DOORS THE SIZE OF A MIDRANGE TELEVISION SET. WITHOUT HURTING YOURSELF, THE EQUIPMENT, OR THE SUBMARINE, WHILE DOING IT.

105

This business will get out of control!  It will get out of control and we'll be lucky to live through it.

106

"I hope that the subs have seats that automatically return to the "down" position in the bathrooms. Just sayin'"

Valu-Rite.  Rocks.  Explosive reax.  Thru nostriks.

I'll send you the Dr's bill.  

107

"as our combat committment in Iraq winds down, fighting in Afghanistan ramps up, naval shipbuilding is in a shambles, the JSF program continues to slide, we enter the 10th year of trying to replace 40 year old aerial tankers, missle defense is being dismantled, Yemen is becoming the new Afghanistan, Iran continues to develop nukes, China owns our country. . . "

But allowing gays in the military and women on submarines will make this all better. 

Sheesh.  What can you say?  Need to clone Petraeus and Odierno. 

108 94. As a vet myself (and with a WW2 Vet Grandma, and two vet sisters), I'm just joking about the mascara. Some of the most dedicated military folks I knew were women. And I barehanded broke a guy's nose once, so I was no softie.

But the living arrangements, the STDs, and the pregnancy - I'm serious as a heart attack about that. Let's put all our subs in drydock during two wars and retrofit them with women's quarters, etc.

109 Guess who's coming to dinner!!!!:  "Barack Obama has invited Jamie Dimon and the CEOs of several prominent companies for dinner at the White House tonight, according to Bloomberg. The CEOs: Verizon Communications Inc.Â’s Ivan Seidenberg, JPMorgan Chase & Co.Â’s Jamie Dimon American Express Co.Â’s Kenneth Chenault.  David Cote of Honeywell International, Inc., Antonio Perez of Eastman Kodak Co.,  Xerox Corp.Â’s Ursula Burns,  Indra Nooyi of PepsiCo, Inc., and Wal-Mart Stores, Inc.Â’s Michael Duke"

110 The really interesting policy isn't social experimentation on submarines. It's Barry's policy that the only real place to cut government spending is the military.

111

Don't forget that the first US nuclear sub was the USS Nautybits.

snarf

112

seriously you look at your wives daughters and think they wouldmn't fight to the finish when they knew the score?

We know they would.  And if I was a Russian and the Wehrmacht was in the Moscow suburbs that scenario would apply.  But I'm not.  And they aren't.

113 Isn't there a punishment for adultery when you're in the military? Even is there isn't, this is incredibly stupid. It's just asking for more women in the Navy to get pregnant while they're serving--which isn't conducive to fighting a war.

Women should not be on submarines, perhaps even on naval vessels--& I say this as a woman.

114

By the way to everyone who responds to me, I am serious in what I'm saying.  I don't mind if you snark me, or even if you flame me.  But I appreciate your responses, and I'm not trying to be a dick.

97 Ed,

If I get knocked up two weeks into a sub mission, y'all are gonna surface so I can get ashore and get proper care, right?

PMS on a ship = Black Cat Bottle Rocket
PMS on a sub = Hiroshima

Posted by: Cathy at February 23, 2010 08:32 PM (b0AML)

Do women who get pregnant on a surface ship get evaced? In Iraq or Afghanistan?  To the best of my knowledge, yes.  So yes, surface the sub and evac the female in question.

As far as PMS, I'm snarking a little here, just for fun... PMS, when women bring it up as an explanation, it is the God's honest truth.  When men bring it up for an explanation, all hell breaks loose.

But seriously, since our military is disciplined and professional, I'm sure they can deal with the PMS issue just like we do on surface vessels.

115

Ahhh, the Silent Service - 150 men go out, 75 couples come back.

I guess with  women, that may change.

116 Partay on the Subs!  Woohoo!!

117

Cathy, you are my kind of gal.

I plotted less on how to kill my abusive ex (14 yrs) than a brief time living w/ 2 female roommates (4 months).

 

118 The Navy has never been the same since Zumwalt...They don't know much about warfighting and even less about morale and discipline...They should concentrate on driving their ships and getting the real warfighters, Marines, to the fight...

119 "Men, take a look at our latest ship-borne anti-terrorist weapon, the M-103 Rotary Automatic Gun- Genital Equipment Recycler, or RAGGER for short. Takes cryo-frozen recycled tampons, shoots them out at 1800 rounds per minute at 3600 fps. Penetrates 30 inches of wood, 7 inches of concrete, 1/2 mild steel plate. Same principle as depleted-uranium rounds, except that there is an added deterrent to Moslem terrorists from their distaste of getting lit up with infidel-female-blood soaked munitions. With this sucker, ANY time of the month is a bad time of the month!"

120 Is anyone serious about this PMS thing? I ask this as a woman. I have never known it to be anything but an excuse to sell unnecessary medicine.

121

@34: "Oh...and we could have Abortion Clinic in each Sub."

It's more properly referred to as the reactor....

122 107

So?  We have standing orders prohibiting adultry in general  and sex on deployments.  Soldiers aren't allowed to have sex in Afghanistan and Iraq. 

Hahaha.  Seriously?  You think that stops ANYBODY?  You're not a vet, are you?

Posted by: Secundus at February 23, 2010 08:35 PM (WuvMD)

Do I think it stops ANYBODY?  Of course I do.  Do I think it stops EVERYBODY?  Of course not.  And don't jump to conclusions about what I am or am not. 

123 126, I have heard that some women suffer from something called PMDD, which is, like, psychotic episodes connected with PMS.
I have no personal experience with PMS, but as a preggo, I can say that hormones are a bitch, and if these women are getting a hormone imbalance each month, I feel for them.
Now, I'm off to eat a quart of Rocky Road and have a nice cry over "Seventh Heaven" reruns.
(Nah, I'm good. I'm great! What!?)

124

So yes, surface the sub and evac the female in question.

Hey!  Every spy satallite and naval ship in this hemisphere!

WE'RE RIGHT HERE. 

125 113 94. As a vet myself (and with a WW2 Vet Grandma, and two vet sisters), I'm just joking about the mascara. Some of the most dedicated military folks I knew were women. And I barehanded broke a guy's nose once, so I was no softie.

But the living arrangements, the STDs, and the pregnancy - I'm serious as a heart attack about that. Let's put all our subs in drydock during two wars and retrofit them with women's quarters, etc.

Posted by: Cathy at February 23, 2010 08:37 PM (b0AML)

OK, at the same time, why not install straight and gay quarters too? 

126 PMS is bad for some women.  But really the phrase "that time of the month" will take on new meaning.  Women who live together tend to menstruate at the same time every month.  Over a couple of months their bodies go in sync with one another and so you will have mass PMS and mass menstruation at the same time for every woman on the sub.  How's that workin for you admiral?

127 How u gonna get u knocked up bitch off de sub???

128 Like society in general, the military is getting pussifed as well.  Just look at the movies and the leading men.  Nothing like the men from the 40s 50s and 60s.  Just another progressive idea that will help to continue the breakdown of our society and country.  This kind of shit has been in plan for 30 years or more.  Welcome to the Liberal Progressive military. 

129 Any crazy bitches on my sub gonna get shots out a my torpedo tubes...Damn straight...

130 94

is this how you guys really feel?

seriously you look at your wives daughters and think they wouldmn't fight to the finish when they knew the score?

Posted by: willow at February 23, 2010 08:31 PM (7FgWm)

I don't want them having to willow. That's my job. call me sexist, I don't care. It's how I was raised.

131 OT: Stempy Hoyer saying HCR bill might be DOA - http://bit.ly/9jdS1m

132 USS Seawolf

Baby On Board:  Precious Cargo bumper stickers on backorder!

133 #119  Do women who get pregnant on a surface ship get evaced? In Iraq or Afghanistan?  To the best of my knowledge, yes.  So yes, surface the sub and evac the female in question.

That would make playing SSN a bit more difficult if they had that mod.   I don't think the Chinese would give you a "time out" if you had to surface in the South China Sea to evac the pregnant lady before resuming covert operations.

134
Do women who get pregnant on a surface ship get evaced? In Iraq or Afghanistan?  To the best of my knowledge, yes.  So yes, surface the sub and evac the female in question.


Sure, just send a chopper or a surface vessel in to evac the female in question, no problem. That'll work out real well in a time of hostilities with enemy fast attack subs prowling around.

Its called the Silent Service for a reason

135 I'm pleased to see that a woman has broken through the glass ceiling and become Commander-In-Chief.

136 130

So yes, surface the sub and evac the female in question.

Hey!  Every spy satallite and naval ship in this hemisphere!

WE'RE RIGHT HERE. 

Posted by: Nuclear Missle sub running on the surface at February 23, 2010 08:46 PM (WuvMD)

Yeah, that is a issue.  But evacing a pregnant women out Iraq or Afghanistan has logistical problems and dangers as well.  But we do it anyway.

 

137 Ed, it's my understanding (and submariners, corrections welcome) that nuke sub missions are top secret classified, each movement, and to have to surface for something would be dangerous and self-defeating and could compromise national security.

Lot different than helo'ing a gal off of the Saratoga.

138 142 I'm pleased to see that a woman has broken through the glass ceiling and become Commander-In-Chief.

Posted by: George Orwell at February 23, 2010 08:49 PM (AZGON)

well Clinton was the first black president

139 Oooh, I can't wait to get in that long black tube with all those hot sailor boyz.  I just hope they have enough crisco bitches...

140

@119

Ed,

You do realize that Sub Missions last 3-6 months, and they can go that entire time without having to surface, and sometimes do it for training?

Making Pussy Cats and Dogs share the same food dish and sand-box may be great for the College Campus, but doesn't make much sense @ 900 ft below sea level.

How far should we take it? Maybe the best thing to do is to sow a Uterous into the men and they can have the babies, and we sow a Bull's Cock on to the women so that they can do the Impregnanting.......That should make the softies feel like we are a compassionate country?    

141 BREAKING: Senator Barbara Boxer and EPA Administrator Lisa Jackson Throw IPCC Under the Bus

Get a suicide team over to Chas' house -- STAT!!!

Walter L. Newton

 

 

142 next on deck, Rear Admiral Johnny Weir?

143 "The US Navy proudly announced today the appointment of its first female Asian-American submarine commander, Captain Ann Way Wong. In other news, the world's shipping lanes were strangely empty as all surface shipping suddenly and inexplicably returned to their home ports."

144 If you want to see what Liberals have done for England, WIKIpedia Warships, Great Britton. The list of Coastal Patrol Boats is almost as large as all Destroyers and Frigates which is about 26. They have 2 very old junp Aircraft Carriers that will be mothballed or scraped very soon. Obama wants us to be about the size of Great Brition in very short time.  I am sorry to say, a lot of good union jobs will be lost, as well as material production of hundreds of business will go under. Omana wants that money at all costs, and the military is the lamb.

145 147. Where's the foetus gonna gestate, in a box?

146 You know what, I came from the Air Wing before volunteering, wink wink for submarines....You know what they say about working on those jet engine boys.  Suck and blow, suck and blow...mmmmhhhh

147 #143  Yeah, that is a issue.  But evacing a pregnant women out Iraq or Afghanistan has logistical problems and dangers as well.  But we do it anyway.

Evac from an aircraft carrier near the East Coast vs evac from 600 feet deep covertly in the Pacific.  Apples and oranges, friend.

There are some situations were you shouldn't be required to "do it anyway".  Submarines are one of them.

148 OT... is it just CPAC jet lag, or has Salem absorbed Ed Morrissey into the Blog Body? Because Ed has been missing at Hot Air for some time now. What, is he hanging with Ace? Nothing but Allahpundit posts... in other words, nothing to see.

149

143

No kidding it's an issue.  The entire world knows we're in Afghanistan and Iraq, for starters.  When a plane takes off from Bagram air base, all the surrounding countries don't go, "Holy shit!  Where did THAT come from?!"

Secrecy is pretty much the entire point of a nuclear missle sub.  You have a mobile, invisible arsenal that can destroy any country on Earth--even if all of our land based nukes, military bases, etc are reduced to radioactive slag, we can still wipe you out.

150
If you want to see what Liberals have done for England, WIKIpedia Warships, Great Britton. The list of Coastal Patrol Boats is almost as large as all Destroyers and Frigates which is about 26. They have 2 very old junp Aircraft Carriers that will be mothballed or scraped very soon. Obama wants us to be about the size of Great Brition in very short time.  I am sorry to say, a lot of good union jobs will be lost, as well as material production of hundreds of business will go under. Omana wants that money at all costs, and the military is the lamb.

Posted by: mystry at February 23, 2010 08:53 PM (kmgIE)

Might just be one of the reasons why Argentina is feeling froggy again about the Falklands again.

151

Yep.....That would be a show I would pay a months salary to see! Just imagine 100 parakeets locked in a small cage with 100 98Tom Cats! Fun..Fun..Fun! 

Posted by: Jimi at February 23, 2010 08:21 PM (fqxV7)

One to two of those tomcats will be homosexual. Just statistics.

152

I be pimpin my bitches on watch...Four on four off haz a new meaning, heh heh...I'm rollin rubber band banks bitches...

153 Gays in the military and women on subs won't weaken the national defense enough. We need more irrelevant issues to address.

154 152 147. Where's the foetus gonna gestate, in a box?

Posted by: Cathy at February 23, 2010 08:53 PM (b0AML)

Here! I've got an idea: Suppose you agree that he can't actually have babies, not having a womb - which is nobody's fault, not even the Romans' - but that he can have the *right* to have babies.

155 119  " So yes, surface the sub and evac the female in question."

WTF?  If you don't know anything about sub tactics, wrap up and spare us all your PC rubbish.

156 #149-can you imagine how fabulous those uniforms would be? Cut outs, fox fur, and sequins, sequins, sequins, baby!

157

is this how you guys really feel?

seriously you look at your wives daughters and think they wouldmn't fight to the finish when they knew the score?

Posted by: willow at February 23, 2010 08:31 PM (7FgWm)

Not the point. 

You know, in the bad old days, it was considered a mark of advanced civilization when countries didn't make their women fight.

Progress!

158 Jesus fucking Christ. It's every day with these people. Every day that goes by it gets easier and easier to be proud of my vote for Bush. At least I get out relatively soon.

159 Posted by: di butler, bitchy w/ a side of bacon at February 23, 2010 08:56 PM (S3xX1)

ok now you're just teasin me aren't you di

160 #157  Might just be one of the reasons why Argentina is feeling froggy again about the Falklands again.

Indeed.  The Falklands were a risky operation back in the 80's, Gaia only knows how much more difficult any Brit operation would be now.

161

163

You'd also have officers with only one name, like Liberace.

162 160.
 The goldang bellbottoms have got to go!
No more SOS in the galley!
Bug juice NO! Arizona Iced Tea YES!

163 167 #157  Might just be one of the reasons why Argentina is feeling froggy again about the Falklands again.

Indeed.  The Falklands were a risky operation back in the 80's, Gaia only knows how much more difficult any Brit operation would be now.

Posted by: Kratos (on the back of Gaia, scaling Mt Olympus) at February 23, 2010 08:58 PM (otlXg)

fuck them, send in the stig and the rest of the top gear crew. clean them bastards out in an hour flat.

164

169

We demand vegan MRE's!

165 What's wrong with women being on the damn boats. Just like Korea, you can make them your hooch pooch. They do your laundry, cook for you, and then suck your dicks. What's wrong with that? Oh and make sure the bitches are on the pill, we don't want any unplanned pregnancies to screw up a man's career.

166

@161

Ahhh! Look at the Big Brain! It pulsates!

Better yet, why don't we create a law that says Pregnant Men have the right to an Abortion?

167 In other news, the Navy Chief Admiral Mike Mullen said that contrary to most Marines analysis, the Navy is most definitely not like a big dog trying to lick its own balls...Not true the Admiral said, its well documented that the Navy has no balls...

168 The Falklands were a risky operation back in the 80's, Gaia only knows how much more difficult any Brit operation would be now. The Brits would likely answer an Argentine invasion with an apology to the UN for its imperialist past, and by sending a British fleet to the Falklands loaded with humanitarian supplies and advisors to help the Argentine forces prepare defenses for their new island territory.

169 #170  send in the stig

What the hell is that?  I ask also because I saw somebody with a "I am the Stig" T-shirt.  Who or what is "the Stig"?

170 173. Nowwww yer talkin'.

171 Who said the men should get pregnant?  Is this what you want?

172

166 Posted by: di butler, bitchy w/ a side of bacon at February 23, 2010 08:56 PM (S3xX1)

ok now you're just teasin me aren't you di

UncleFacts,

A real woman never teases about bacon. I'm no pork-tease.

173

fuck them, send in the stig and the rest of the top gear crew. clean them bastards out in an hour flat.

Posted by: Unclefacts, Summoner of Meteors, and Buckets of Scorn for the Left at February 23, 2010 08:59 PM (erIg9)

Fuck that, send in Amy Winehouse and Russel Brand. After seeing those two freakshows come ashore, the bastards will swim back to Argentina.

174 What the hell is that?  I ask also because I saw somebody with a "I am the Stig" T-shirt.  Who or what is "the Stig"?

Posted by: Kratos (on the back of Gaia, scaling Mt Olympus) at February 23, 2010 09:02 PM (otlXg)

Not only do I not know, I don't even know how to find out.

175 What my wife would or wouldn't do isn't the issue. The issue is how much more it is going to cost to replace all the pregnant sailors so that the boat can deploy, and what could have been bought with the money--you know, something useful, like all the body armor and equipment the left accused Bush of depriving the troops of. 

176 it's a man's life in the modern army!

177 I don't think there's any question that our current generation of soldiers are as tough and brave as they've ever been. On the other hand, it would appear that the military brass at the exec level has succumbed to the pressures of political correctness. This is not a good omen, at all.

178 147

@119

Ed,

How far should we take it? Maybe the best thing to do is to sow a Uterous into the men and they can have the babies, and we sow a Bull's Cock on to the women so that they can do the Impregnanting.......That should make the softies feel like we are a compassionate country?    

Posted by: Jimi at February 23, 2010 08:50 PM (fqxV7)

 

Heh.  But I'd recomend something less brutal than a "Bull's Cock."  We're trying to do social engineering here, not man slaughter.

Anyway, all the above points about the hazzards of surfacing a sub are good. * So how about this hypothetical:  People who serve aboard a sub do with the understanding that getting pregnant or getting someone else pregnant leads to a general courts martial with penalties serious enough to reduce the rate of pregnancy down to something manageable, like appendixicites (sic),

 *(Although rest assured, your enemies on the left won't care a bit about them when the time for the grand sub social experiment comes.)

179

"...loaded with humanitarian supplies, carbon credits, and advisors ..."

FTFY

180 Fuck that, send in Amy Winehouse and Russel Brand. After seeing those two freakshows come ashore, the bastards will swim back to Argentina. Now that would be awesome... Rear Admiral Amy Winehouse. Any military insane enough to make her a fleet officer is a military crazy enough to fuck you up.

181

Goin down in a sub never felt so riiiiiiigggghttttt...

182 Posted by: Ed at February 23, 2010 09:05 PM (OCfDT)

are you sure that would work?  (said shaking)

183

@161

Ahhh! Look at the Big Brain! It pulsates!

Better yet, why don't we create a law that says Pregnant Men have the right to an Abortion?

Posted by: Jimi at February 23, 2010 09:01 PM (fqxV7)

B+

184 Posted by: George Orwell at February 23, 2010 09:01 PM (AZGON)

I remember back in '82 the Brits called them the fuckland islands. Now they call them the imperiastically oppressed Argentine islands which were stolen by  the imperialistic British. You know why the Brits have become such pussies? Cause they are uncircumcised. It's a proven fact that uncut Brits are raving pussies who need to be fisted.

185 good lord, tell me you morons don't watch Top Gear

186 #181  Not only do I not know, I don't even know how to find out.

Dude, I only use google to look for the addresses of 90's Skinemax actresses.  But if you insist..

wtf?  It should read "I am the Gimp".

187 You know, like uh, your wives aren't going to like my going down on you guys, I mean on the sub with you guys, but...What goes on undersea, stays undersea...

188 I mean I KNOW that jimi has no idea who or what Monty Python is, but Top Gear? that's at least current people!

189
Now that would be awesome... Rear Admiral Amy Winehouse. Any military insane enough to make her a fleet officer is a military crazy enough to fuck you up.

Posted by: George Orwell at February 23, 2010 09:06 PM (AZGON)

As an officer, she would give new meaning to the term crack-team

190 Yeah, that is a issue.  But evacing a pregnant women out Iraq or Afghanistan has logistical problems and dangers as well.  But we do it anyway.

You make some good points Ed.

So much so, that after this discussion about having women serve on subs, I'm coming to reevaluate my position on women serving in the military as a whole.

New Position: "Sure. Serve wherever and in whatever capacity you otherwise qualify for. But not until you've had your tubes tied."

Reasonable?

191 CAPS LOCK is not your personal army. Neither is all bold. It's not even your personal navy.

192 Hannity has a really good special on right now, "Generation Zero"

193 192 good lord, tell me you morons don't watch Top Gear.

If it's not on Late Night Skinemax, I don't watch it.

194

Anyway, all the above points about the hazzards of surfacing a sub are good. * So how about this hypothetical:  People who serve aboard a sub do with the understanding that getting pregnant or getting someone else pregnant leads to a general courts martial with penalties serious enough to reduce the rate of pregnancy down to something manageable, like appendixicites (sic),

 *(Although rest assured, your enemies on the left won't care a bit about them when the time for the grand sub social experiment comes.)

Posted by: Ed

What are you going to do, shoot them?

After months at sea beside some blonde giving you the eye? I doubt even the threat of death would stop them.

195 You guys get to excited about hope and change. The solution is easy, paint a couple of subs PINK and put the gays and the wimmins on them.

196

185 

Good idea regarding the penalties.  Okay, you can sail on this vessel, but if we have to evac you, you're in deep shit.

The problem would be when the press got ahold of it.  "FEMALE SAILOR COURT-MARTIALED FOR GETTING PREGNANT".

197 I think it's important for people of the LGBT community to serve on subs.

198

What's long and hard and full of semen?

Some submarine broad's fallopian tubes.

199

@185,

 

Already in place my friend. And in the end you'll end with all the women kicked out of the Navy...And the excersise will ahve accomplished whta?

Hence the reason Woman are not regular Submariners....The Navy may have been castrated, but I'm sure they researched this a long time ago, and came to the most logical conclusion...And the conclusion is...

Men and Women like to have sex, and give them the opportunity, and they will.

200 Haha, "Breaking News from CNN: A young sailor facing court-martial for an unplanned pregnancy! We now turn to our Senior Unplanned Pregnancy correspondent..."

It's ALREADY illegal to fraternize. It's common.

It's ALREADY illegal to commit adultery. It's common.

It would be a violation of all sorts of law to make pregnancy subject to courts-martial.
People in the military frig, and they get pregnant. They know the rules. They break them.
Horny happens.

201 PS: Fuck You!!!

202
If it's not on Late Night Skinemax, I don't watch it.

Posted by: Kratos (on the back of Gaia, scaling Mt Olympus) at February 23, 2010 09:09 PM (otlXg)

all right, you're covered seeing as how it's part of the AoS Moron Lifestyle©

203   207 Haha, "Breaking News from CNN: A young sailor facing court-martial for an unplanned pregnancy! We now turn to our Senior Unplanned Pregnancy correspondent..."

It's ALREADY illegal to fraternize. It's common.

It's ALREADY illegal to commit adultery. It's common.

It would be a violation of all sorts of law to make pregnancy subject to courts-martial.
People in the military frig, and they get pregnant. They know the rules. They break them.
Horny happens.

Posted by: Cathy at February 23, 2010 09:11 PM (b0AML)

 

Wow.  I am seriously developing a girl crush.

204 Uncle, they ought to let Stig drive a sub. For those of you who don't know, The Stig is like the Unknown Comic, only he drives very, very fast.

205 Rear Admiral Amy Winehouse.

Yeah we'll rear Amy Winehouse with our uncut penises, then slap the shit out of her. Cause we're Brits.

206 210. Tee hee hee.
[Blushes.]

207 This must be why they are pushing this now:  "Ashland clinic will offer medication-induced abortions"
Matt drudge has no less than three headlines on this

also, did you see BO's spanking brand new billion dollar embassy to be built in England?

208 I want to make sure that our subs and ships have appropriate maternity wards...We should start by cutting the Chiefs quarters in half...You know, they are mostly old white oppressors of the chosen people, so who cares...

209 189 Posted by: Ed at February 23, 2010 09:05 PM (OCfDT)

are you sure that would work?  (said shaking)

Posted by: hormones and booze at February 23, 2010 09:06 PM (p302b)

I don't know, crank the penalties up high enough and it probably would.  DNA testing of the fetus/baby should enable the men to be held accountable.   As for me, the fear of getting caught and punished is what keeps me from counterfeiting money.  How about you?  I use this counterfeiting example, because if you use examples like murder or rape or assault, the moral arguement against them is instinctively much stronger.

210 We've lost track of the REAL victim of putting women on submarines: the one guy the other men call "Sally" will suddenly be awful lonely.

211 If it's not on Late Night Skinemax, I don't watch it. You're making me wonder. Is there such a thing as a skinemax flick that features hot chick action undersea? You know, a sort of naval version of the "women in prison" exploitation genre?

212 Soldiers aren't allowed to have sex in Afghanistan and Iraq.


You really really don't have a fucking clue, do you? 
This crap is an awful idea, about like everything else Zero is jamming down the throats of the services; I hope we still have competent armed forces left when his successor is inaugurated.  We will need them.

213

You guys get to excited about hope and change. The solution is easy, paint a couple of subs PINK and put the gays and the wimmins on them.

This is actually a decent idea. The problem is now, you have to be able to prove you are LG or T, because all of a sudden people like me would become "Gay!" Just for one tour...hehehe!

214 211 Uncle, they ought to let Stig drive a sub. For those of you who don't know, The Stig is like the Unknown Comic, only he drives very, very fast.

Posted by: Tommy Gunnar at February 23, 2010 09:13 PM (rQTdM)

hah! some say he only knows two facts about ducks, and they're both wrong, and that he has three testicles. all we know is..... we call him the STIG!

215

UncleFacts,

A real woman never teases about bacon. I'm no pork-tease.

Posted by: di butler, bitchy w/ a side of bacon at February 23, 2010 09:03 PM (S3xX1)

hey, how YOU doin?

216 The wife will get up and walk out of the room when Top Gear comes on BBC-America. She just doesn't get the humor and, damn, those guys are funny.

217 All kidding aside, you just know something bad is gonna happen because of this.  What a FUBAR of a decision.

218

Posted by: Samuel Adams at February 23, 2010 09:07 PM (nxUYP)

Get bent.  You're just jealous 'cause my parents didn't have the end of my knob chopped off when I was a baby.  And anyone who says Brits are pussies has never met the Royal Marines.

Oh, and Cathy?  You freaking rock.

219

@216

Why is it so important to this country to have wimmens on Submaries?

220 216.
I have never once considering counterfeiting money, or robbing anyone.

I was, however, brought up on a few frig-related charges under the UCMJ during my youth in the United States Coast Guard. And I *knew* the rules. A little booze, the soft lapping of the dark Atlantic against the side of the boat, a little starlight, a charming, boyish grin...

(Oh, sure, it's funny now...)

221 207 Haha, "Breaking News from CNN: A young sailor facing court-martial for an unplanned pregnancy! We now turn to our Senior Unplanned Pregnancy correspondent..."

Posted by: Cathy at February 23, 2010 09:11 PM (b0AML)

 

Heh!  "Senior Unplanned Pregnancy correspondent".  Now that right there is funny.

Goddamnit, if you keep bringing the funny and making me laugh, I'm not gonna be able to concentrate on whatever my point is.

 

222

We need to make sure that our newly outed gay sailors are not harrassed by the old Navy straight males...So, I think they should have private hotel rooms...We can cut into the Chiefs quarters.  I understand they are fairly generous, uh spacious as we say in Real Estate...And, they should be allowed in the Chiefs mess, so they don't have to eat on the mess decks and risk confrontations with those evil heterosexuals...Obama said so dammmit, and hez da Prezident...

223 225. Awww, I'm gestating a boy as we speak, and yeah, he's going home with his entire schlong.

224 Part of the point of having a sub fleet is so you can sneak around, you know, under the water. Surfacing to evacuate one of Obama's little mistakes defeats the whole purpose.

225 I don't think it's fair that so few paraplegics and blind people have been permitted to serve aboard the International Space Station. And why hasn't NASA ever had a little person astronaut? Also, because in microgravity and in orbit the directions of the compass aren't immediately obvious, so there should be electronic signs showing the direction of Mecca at all times. Because of religious freedom, 'n' shit.

226
I was, however, brought up on a few frig-related charges under the UCMJ during my youth in the United States Coast Guard. And I *knew* the rules. A little booze, the soft lapping of the dark Atlantic against the side of the boat, a little starlight, a charming, boyish grin...



.....go on

227 Open Gays? Women in subs? Chief concern after 13 soldiers are shot on base is diversity? The armed forces are being turned into just  another branch of the civil service. The SEIU will be organizing there any day. It is service right?

Totally load of crap.

228 "230 225. Awww, I'm gestating a boy as we speak, and yeah, he's going home with his entire schlong.

Posted by: Cathy at February 23, 2010 09:20 PM (b0AML)"

My friend just had a boy and she had him circumsized.

229 Files show Ala. suspect's husband wanted revenge

230 126 Is anyone serious about this PMS thing? I ask this as a woman. I have never known it to be anything but an excuse to sell unnecessary medicine.

Posted by: arhooley at February 23, 2010 08:42 PM (PJPTe)

yes , it's real an can be vicious for some, and yes it also can be used for some as an excuse to be a btch for others as a  tool.

231 233. The rest is kinda hazy.
The 7 days on base restriction and 7 days extra duty, however, are still pretty clear.

232 All kidding aside, you just know something bad is gonna happen because of this.  What a FUBAR of a decision.

Posted by: Guy Fawkes at February 23, 2010 09:18 PM (cpuvG)

I'm sorry, what?  Don't make me go all SNAFU on your ass.

233 240. Stop acting like a damn FNG.

234

My apologies to my fellow women, but seriously screws must be loose in a female's head to want to be on a submarine crew. PMS underwater will probably end up being fatal for somebody.

Or will they force all the female submarine crew members to use that birth control that stops periods?

235 219 Soldiers aren't allowed to have sex in Afghanistan and Iraq.


You really really don't have a fucking clue, do you? 
This crap is an awful idea, about like everything else Zero is jamming down the throats of the services; I hope we still have competent armed forces left when his successor is inaugurated.  We will need them.

Posted by: Hatchet Five at February 23, 2010 09:15 PM (tafgh)

I tell you what, just hit me with a fuckin' clue bat a few times and you'll feel better and I'll be smarter.  Win/win, right?

236 Posted by: Secundus at February 23, 2010 09:18 PM (WuvMD)

_{Apparently wasn't loud enough.}

THE BRITISH ARE PUSSIES! Egg and pork n beans breakfast eating uncut motherfuckers with bad teeth, who consistently kiss the ass of all the Muslim invaders of their once proud country. Gawd, it's embarrassing to even call them the Mother Country anymore. I'm more proud of the Canadians now.

237

Posted by: FUBAR

I think the term we're looking for here is 'BOHICA'.

238 I'm sorry, what? Don't make me go all SNAFU on your ass. You'll probably want it for free, too.

239

We need to make sure that our newly outed gay sailors are not harrassed by the old Navy straight males...

Where are you going to find one of those?

240 We have standing orders prohibiting adultry in general  and sex on deployments.  Soldiers aren't allowed to have sex in Afghanistan and Iraq.  I see no difference between that and a sub deployment.


And those orders are not followed, because people don't just stop having sex because you tell them to. Oh, and subs are underwater. And in the middle of the freaking ocean. Thousands of miles from everything. Except water.

241 243. As someone more Catholic than the Pope (that's right, folks, I had a post-frig spiritual conversion), I decline your Pill. Good day, madame.

242
The rest is kinda hazy.



Damn.


*pulls zipper back up*

243

I was, however, brought up on a few frig-related charges under the UCMJ during my youth in the United States Coast Guard. And I *knew* the rules. A little booze, the soft lapping of the dark Atlantic against the side of the boat, a little starlight, a charming, boyish grin...

She had me over a barrel, and under a porthole.

244 ...not for the sake of diversity or...

Isn't that what it turns out to be in most of the cases where someone stirs up something with gender or race at its center? The PC crowd can't leave well enough alone and allow change to come on its own terms and at its own speed, they want to change things immediately just so that they can feel good about what they're doing.

245 And why hasn't NASA ever had a little person astronaut?

Physiological difficulties handling the G's on the ride up or down?

Seriously, I have no idea.....

But now I'm wondering about it, dammit.

246 230 225. Awww, I'm gestating a boy as we speak, and yeah, he's going home with his entire schlong.

Posted by: Cathy at February 23, 2010 09:20 PM (b0AML)

Why!

247 To the best of my knowledge, Obama has cut off all R&D funding for all the services. I know for sure, he has cut all new projects for the Army.  I assume the the Air Force and the Navy have the same problem.  Is there any way for someone to verify this? Without R&D, you will not have the edge any more.

248 What's wrong with Navy women going down?

249 #218  You're making me wonder. Is there such a thing as a skinemax flick that features hot chick action undersea? You know, a sort of naval version of the "women in prison" exploitation genre?

I dunno about "undersea" stuff, but I recall one movie called "Carnal Cruise" (or something lame like that).  Use your imagination. 

250 THE BRITISH ARE PUSSIES! Egg and pork n beans breakfast eating uncut motherfuckers with bad teeth, who consistently kiss the ass of all the Muslim invaders of their once proud country. Gawd, it's embarrassing to even call them the Mother Country anymore. I'm more proud of the Canadians now.

Posted by: HMS Submarine Seamen at February 23, 2010 09:24 PM (nxUYP)

I'm a big fan of the British Empire.  Of the civilized world, they civilized about 85% of it.  And they did yeoman's work in the WWs.  And they helped keep the Frenchies in their place for centuries.  And I'm a big Beatles fan. 

But now they're a bunch of pussies.

251 255. The motion of the ocean is fine, but the size of the ship is not to be discounted.

252 192 good lord, tell me you morons don't watch Top Gear

Posted by: Unclefacts, Summoner of Meteors, and Buckets of Scorn for the Left

 

Top Gear is the shee-it!  It's 3 Brit 'petrolheads' who test drive cars, have drag races, and insane contests involving cars in some fashion.  (What's faster to get to the top of this cliff?  This professional rock climber, or this turbocharged M5?)

"The Stig" is the Tame Race Car Driver, who wears a white fire suit and helmet at all times, never showing his face or speaking.  He is able to take the super cars around the track like they are supposed to be driven.  Personally, I think Stig is unknown so they can use just whatever F1 driver happens to be available at any given time.

253

255

Because it's her kid and her choice and her kid's dick and none of your business?

254

Or will they force all the female submarine crew members to use that birth control that stops periods?

Annuale

255 Relieved of duty and headed home, folks!
Nighty night.

256 And why hasn't NASA ever had a little person astronaut? Physiological difficulties handling the G's on the ride up or down? No, no, no. Look, people... it's so simple!!! NASA=Wernher von Braun=Hitler=Racist=Texan=George W. BOOOOSH!!1!11!! Google it, people!!!!

257 I submit in honesty only an opinion, that women Can serve equally as men in this service, also for those that say women are more prone to emotion at times, i would submit  18- 89 year old guys, to womens maybe being freaks for 20 years.

258 I think we will cancel the next series of nuclear carriers...We really need to concentrate on quality of life issues for our new gay/lesbian/tranny sailors.  Its all about the people, not those ugly ships and planes that scare brown people all around the world...The United States of Amerika need to put away all those oppressive weapons of war which they have used to enslave brown people since Muhammed first brought forward the word on Allah...

259 Or will they force all the female submarine crew members to use that birth control that stops periods?

I'm surprised they don't do that in combat zones already.  It's such a PITA to pretend periods don't exist in the almost-all-male environments in which I work (no point giving the jerks an opening for mocking me/deriding my work), I can't imagine dealing with it while people are trying to blow me up and I can't go home and get away from my co-workers at night.

260 Posted by: Secundus at February 23, 2010 09:30 PM (WuvMD)
well if dad and grand dad and great grand dad and all the uncles are circumsized then the kid is going to feel really weird that he is not.

261 To the best of my knowledge, Obama has cut off all R&D funding for all the services. It's so sad that, given who is cooling his shitheels in the Oval Office, I automatically assumed this was the case since January, 2009.

262 265 And why hasn't NASA ever had a little person astronaut?

would you want to ride in a spaceship, with no exit, with Verne Troyer?

263 those ugly ships and planes that scare brown people all around the world...

I'm laughing. That was full of win.

264 270 To the best of my knowledge, Obama has cut off all R&D funding for all the services.

It's so sad that, given who is cooling his shitheels in the Oval Office, I automatically assumed this was the case since January, 2009.

Posted by: George Orwell at February 23, 2010 09:32 PM (AZGON)

yeah I kinda just assumed that was a given as well

265

Because it's her kid and her choice and her kid's dick and none of your business?

Posted by: Secundus at February 23, 2010 09:30 PM (WuvMD)

Well that was kind of harsh Mr. Poopypants. Didn't know you were one of those shiite foreskin lovers. "DON'T MUTILATE MY SON YOU FUCKING JEW!"

266 I submit in honesty only an opinion, that women Can serve equally as men in this service, also for those that say women are more prone to emotion at times, i would submit  18- 89 year old guys, to womens maybe being freaks for 20 years.

Posted by: willow at February 23, 2010 09:31 PM (7FgWm)

You know they have to lift and tote stuff?  And take out the garbage?  Equally?  Really?  They can't do anything else with a physical component equally.  I love women, but come on.

267 well if dad and grand dad and great grand dad and all the uncles are circumsized then the kid is going to feel really weird that he is not.

The kid's going to feel even weirder that he's in any sort of situation where this sort of knowledge comes to light.

268

A little booze, the soft lapping of the dark Atlantic against the side of the boat, a little starlight, a charming, boyish grin...

Was that you?

269

They can't even play billiards equally.  They can't even do curling equally.  Those are not exactly heavy on the physical.  And yet.

Really?

270

Posted by: curious at February 23, 2010 09:32 PM

You just described me as a child.  Except that it was a complete non-issue. 

271

Anyway, this is going to happen.  Whether we like it or not, it is happening.  Iraq showed the future of women in ground combat.  We have laws that are preventing women from engaging in ground combat.  Guess what?  The military, not the congress or president, have undercutting them.  Why?  Because since women are like 25% or something of the total forces, you can't just keep them safe from ground combat without stressing the hell out of the other 75%.  So now women are very close to actually being inground combat, if not already there.  So women will be in warfighters rolls.  So lets look at what arguement we can use to keep them off of subs.

Lets face it, nobody of power is going to argue that women should be kept off of subs because they can't keep their pants on.  No one.  So since no one of power is actually going to vocalize that arguement, what is our next best arguement?  PMS?  Yeah, show me the admiral or politician who is going to articulate that.

 

 

272

"I'm surprised they don't do that in combat zones already.  "

As I recall, we stopped the required vaccinations of deploying troops

273 Oh my Gaia, this has become the foreskin thread. NTTAWWT.

274

Heather that would be  excellant

female submarine crew members to use that birth control that stops periods?

but let's admit all those men going through their sexual crises, from youth to midlife to death. so they don't need a disposal unit for anything but a small condom, things will be equal when men have "a pill too"

275 The kid's going to feel even weirder that he's in any sort of situation where this sort of knowledge comes to light.

You never wrote your name in the snow at deer camp?

(Me neither.  But I hear things.)

276

You just described me as a child.  Except that it was a complete non-issue. 

Posted by: Secundus at February 23, 2010 09:37 PM (WuvMD)

Aww, don't pout Poopsiekins.  Have a pudding cup.

277

Ahhrg.  Another act of stupidity.  Staffing subs with women HAS NO VALUE!  WE GAIN NOTHING!  We do not need more submariners than can already be had from the  male pool.  There is no way they can say with any level of certainty that the myriad problems listed in the posts above can be overcome. 

This is stupid - criminally stupid - and the people responsible need to be brought up on charges and, at the very least, lose their careers, pensions, etc.  Even better - they should be tied to some cinder blocks and pushed off the deck of a ship somewhere out in the Atlantic.  Giving in and going along with this treasonous leftist bullshit is unforgiveable.  May they die in a fire!

278 282 Oh my Gaia, this has become the foreskin thread.

NTTAWWT.

Posted by: George Orwell at February 23, 2010 09:37 PM (AZGON)

It's about Paul Begala now?

279

Willow,

As a woman, I have to disagree. Women, for the most part, are not physically able to do the same functions in many areas, not just the military. I have never understood women who want to be able to do every single thing a man can do. It goes against our whole biology. We were made for different things, and we should be glad of this.

280

Long blond hair, a couple of dozen cruise missiles, torpedos, a clean windshield and a powerful nuclear reactor.

I don't know, I can kind of get into it.

281 As far as women on subs:  I was never on a sub, and never at sea with women for more than a few days at time.  One thing I do remember though, the pregnancy thing is a real problem.  You CAN NOT just surface a boomer whenever someone needs medical attention.  There are at least corpsmen, probably an actual doc on each one to give combat medicine and regular illness care.  But, even though I know it's rare, a tubal pregnancy is a flat-out death sentance for the woman.  At least not without compromising the security of the nuclear deterrant for an entire nation.

282 Say, Ms. Jarrett, when may we look forward to your new pamphlet, "Socialized Medicine for Dummmies?" By the way, we miss Van Jones.

283 "279

Posted by: curious at February 23, 2010 09:32 PM

You just described me as a child.  Except that it was a complete non-issue. 

Posted by: Secundus at February 23, 2010 09:37 PM (WuvMD)"

that's good.  I have a friend who got circumcised as an adult cause his future wife was skeeved by the fact that he wasn't.  There is more of an incidence of cervical cancer in women who have intercourse with non circumcised men.

284 If women were meant to fly, planes wouldn't have cockpits...They would call them box offices...Thank you, I'll be here all night...

285 We were made for different things, and we should be glad of this.

Posted by: di butler, bitchy w/ a side of bacon at February 23, 2010 09:40 PM (S3xX1)

not going to get any argument out of me

286 #270  This is the big fight right now between Obama and GE.  Obama wants to cut off the GE Engine F136 as a backup to the F35 joint strike fighter. P&W does not have a great recerd if they have exclusive contracts for jet engines. GE engines have save the bacon for Navy and Air Force aircraft in the past. It's a jump ball right now.

287

But now they're a bunch of pussies. (referring to the Brits)

Posted by: FUBAR at February 23, 2010 09:29 PM (1fanL)

That's funny. I know a few Royal Marines who are now saying the same thing about Americans. Your women have cut your balls off of you, Yanks.

288

As a woman, I have to disagree. Women, for the most part, are not physically able to do the same functions in many areas, not just the military. I have never understood women who want to be able to do every single thing a man can do. It goes against our whole biology. We were made for different things, and we should be glad of this.

Posted by: di butler, bitchy w/ a side of bacon at February 23, 2010 09:40 PM (S3xX1)

Oh my.  Where'd you steal that logic and reason from, honey?  It looks hawt on you.

289 There are at least corpsmen, probably an actual doc on each one to give combat medicine and regular illness care.

Subs just have an IDC.

290

That's funny. I know a few Royal Marines who are now saying the same thing about Americans. Your women have cut your balls off of you, Yanks.

Posted by: Some get it, some don't at February 23, 2010 09:42 PM (ITzbJ)

that's odd, I hear yours are sportin' em

291 "I believe there are actually rules that prevent anybody from getting to Admiral without sub service in the Nuclear program"

That's a load of bullshit right there.  There are aircraft carrier nukes and submarine nukes, and the two are completely separate career paths.  There is no way to go from being an aircraft carrier nuke to submarines.  There are, however, two ways to do the opposite that I know of:  medically disqualified from subs, or a submarine enlisted man becomes an officer by going the LDO path (which doesn't require a degree).

There is one advantage to putting women on subs that doesn't exist on aircraft carriers.  At least on subs, there's absolutely nowhere you can go for some private space to get laid.  If a woman wants to get knocked up on deployment on a sub, she's going to have to wait until the boat pulls into port.

292

Lets face it, nobody of power is going to argue that women should be kept off of subs because they can't keep their pants on. 

Posted by: Ed at February 23, 2010 09:37 PM (OCfDT)

You may be right about that, but the gutless cowardice of our leaders, to which we are becoming so accustomed, is no excuse for us not to scream "NO!" at the top of our lungs until it's a done deal, and beyond.  If poeple don't want to hear the truth, then so be it.  I'm not interested in having to make up lies or weasel arguements to win the PR war if truth is inadequate.  But this is a battle that should be fought.  This decision is stupid on the face of it - it requires no in-depth analysis to realise that this was agreed to by folks who decided to go full-retard.

293 btw, his comment in the days following the surgery while we had a round robin to take care of him was "I would rather have had ten root canals at once this hurts."  But he's fine now and they are happily married.

294 You never wrote your name in the snow at deer camp?

Good point.

Obviously I have not.

Otherwise I would not have been so baffled in coming up with a scenario involving: Dad, Grand-Dad, Great Grand-Dad and all of the uncles where the issue might come up.

295 I'm sorry, was anyone fucking stupid enough to think the defense of the Republic against his Muslim friends was something Preznit Obama gave a fuck about from the moment he announced his candidacy?

This sort of politically correct diversity bullshit from the sort of star-wearing suckups who end up in the Puzzle Palace on the Potomac is a direct function of what they think the President and the House and Senate Armed Services Committees want to hear. The same bullshit happened in the Clinton years.

Until we get a President who takes national defense seriously and a Congress who looks at the defense budget as something other than 435 districts worth of pork to be fought over, this shit will continue to happen.

296

@289

I stand corrected.  Like I said, I wasn't on a sub, so didn't know for sure.

297

That's funny. I know a few Royal Marines who are now saying the same thing about Americans. Your women have cut your balls off of you, Yanks.

Posted by: Some get it, some don't at February 23, 2010 09:42 PM (ITzbJ)

Crap, are we going to have to kick their ass again?

298 This is the big fight right now between Obama and GE. Obama wants to cut off the GE Engine F136 as a backup to the F35 joint strike fighter. I guess Immelt has to learn that you can't just buy Obama, no matter how much his people contributed. You have to keep buying him. Like blackmail.

299

Crap, are we going to have to kick their ass again?

Posted by: robtr at February 23, 2010 09:45 PM (fwSHf)

they're still pissed over that whole 1776 thing.

300 #305 Me either, FMF Corpsman. Just happen to know.

301

274

A couple of things.

First, stop piggybacking onto the names of people who are worth fifty of you.

Second, the flamewar thread is down the main page a bit.  Perhaps you're lost.

Third, I was raised Roman Catholic.  I don't give a damn if Jews circumcise their kids.  It's the implication that not doing so is somehow abnormal that annoys me (probably shouldn't even made an issue of it; sorry for the threadjack, everyone).  The idea that I'm an anti-Semite is about as wrong as it's possible to be.

302

Posted by: mystry at February 23, 2010 09:42 PM (kmgIE)

F35....Single engine over water...And, put together by the lowest bidder...Who's fucked up idea was that???

303 OT but will somebody convince Allahpundit to take some of that crazy blog money that just fell on his head and use it to buy a clue.  The "Palin Primaries" stuff that he just posted from the Dems is pure, 100% Grade A BS spin.  The gist of that spin is that the Republicans are in trouble because of contested primaries for Congress due to Tea Party candidates entering.  But the reality is that the Democrats literally couldn't field enough candidates to even run for a whole bunch of Congressional seats all over the country.  They had a bunch lined up to run against weaker Republican incumbents back when Prince Hopenchange was still playing the hot hand.  But once Hopenchange started laying down junk, those Democrat candidates fled for the hills.  The self-financed ones - the ones that the Dems thought would be free pick-ups against the weak Republican incumbents - fled the fastest because while they might be dumb enough to be Dems, they're still smart enough to know not to waste their money on a fool's campaign.

Obama has killed the Democrats this year, and maybe for several cycles to come.  The "Palin Primaries" is nothing more than a very lame Dem attempt to spin their demise away, and pin Palin with any contentious stuff that may happen in GOP primaries.  A full-time blogger really ought to spend a little time researching his stuff before just tossing up Democrat spin.

304

That's funny. I know a few Royal Marines who are now saying the same thing about Americans. Your women have cut your balls off of you, Yanks.

Posted by: Some get it, some don't at February 23, 2010 09:42 PM (ITzbJ)

Really.  I dont supose they want to have a little war and find out who's the biggest pussies?  You pussies have outlawed guns, you're trying to outlaw knives, you've practically outlawed self-defense.  Oh, and glass effing beer mugs.  It's not the womyn who castrate you, kid, it's the socialism.

305

"they're still pissed over that whole 1776 thing."

Don't forget me

306 Until we get a President who takes national defense seriously and a Congress who looks at the defense budget as something other than 435 districts worth of pork to be fought over, this shit will continue to happen.

+100

307

they're still pissed over that whole 1776 thing.

Posted by: Unclefacts, Summoner of Meteors, and Buckets of Scorn for the Left at February 23, 2010 09:45 PM (erIg9)

 

Yeah, that's what they said in 1812

308 They can't even play billiards equally.  They can't even do curling equally.  Those are not exactly heavy on the physical.  And yet.

The variation of strength (and mathematical ability) among women and among men seems to be greater than the difference of the average.  There are specific women who can meet the male physical strength requirements, and there are specific men who can't.  Perhaps not many women...but we're looking at individuals..

In the civilian world I'd be arguing vehemently that any woman who can meet the same strength/math/whatever requirements that men are expected to meet should be allowed to do the job (if my house is on fire, it doesn't matter what's between your legs--what matters is that you have the strength to drag my sorry ass out).  But the military is different enough, especially in combat theaters--people are trying to kill you, you can't go home after shift and decompress, etc--they're justified in making different rules.

309

@ 309

Been a few years:  FMF?  Is that the Attached The Marines tour?

310 Fubar. I'm 5'1 was a sheetrocker, cement finisher, for 20 years of my life, I'm cute and hot for my age, you telling me i can't do shit?

311 That's funny. I know a few Royal Marines who are now saying the same thing about Americans. Your women have cut your balls off of you, Yanks.

African American please! The fucking pussy Brits are not even allowed to raise their voices anymore. Granted, this may not be the philosophy of your regular British Joe, but you see that they do not put up too much of a fight since they still have a fucking queen and have been ruled since before the Romans left. Yeah the Euros can get mean and kick each others asses, but since they have been ruled for nearly 2000 years by some king or other despot and they have had the protection of the U. S. for 60 plus years. They. Are. Pussies.

312 Sir, we are at launch. TURN YOUR KEY, SIR!"

313

291

Not to worry, we still have Van Jones in what we call the shadow government...hehe

314 Been a few years:  FMF?  Is that the Attached The Marines tour?

Yep. Fleet Marine Force.

315 @312 It's getting really dull over at Hot Air with Ed in absentia. Nothing but AP posts, mostly video links. If it weren't for the Green Room, I would rarely bother.

316 fkn pissed. this is  a crap thread,. i'm out.

317

@269

Yeah, I remember the good old days when me and all my male relatives gathered around and compared our dicks. Fun times for sure.

318 A tin can deep underwater. Great! I can't think of a better place to have cramps!

Seriously, though, I think this is a bad idea. Shove a lot of people in tight confines like a submarine, and tempers run hot. Mix the genders--and unless this is my right-wing homophobia still showing, I'm pretty sure a lot of the military members are still straight--and bad shit is going to happen. Somebody's going to get hurt, or worse, and overall we see a decrease in military operating efficiency.

Try Das Boot, and add in all the myriad ways that the genders can get on each others' nerves. History will record that the world ended not with a bang, nor with a whimper, but with a "What is your problem? This is not a good time to--DON'T TOUCH THAT!"

319 Oh BTW:  George Orwell asked a while back about Ed at Hot Air.  He is taking a few days to see the sights in DC with his wife before heading home.

320

Yeah, that's what they said in 1812

Posted by: robtr at February 23, 2010 09:48 PM (fwSHf)

didn't want to rub it in too hard.

oh what the hell, hey you brits understand teeth are for eating, and not for cutting keys right?

321

Crap, are we going to have to kick their ass again?

Posted by: robtr at February 23, 2010 09:45 PM (fwSHf)

Yeah, we probably will.  We did it for two separate centuries (18th and 19th) and it kept them on the straight and narrow. (Revolutionary war, War of 1812).  We didn't kick their ass in the 20th century and just look at them now.

 

322 In all seriousness, I don't have a problem with women serving anywhere they are capable. The problem I have is that many standards were lowered in order to allow them to serve in certain capacities. I saw it too many times in a 20 year career. Added to that, recently a general was verbally hammered and forced to rescind a lawful order regarding pregnancies in the war zone. The political correctness has gone way too far.

323 Posted by: George Orwell at February 23, 2010 09:45 PM (AZGON)

Just checked the "guess who's coming to dinner" list for tonight and ole Jeff isn't on the list.  I thought he was part of the business roundtable

324

Yep. Fleet Marine Force.

Heh.  Always like the saying "Marines have a few good men:  Navy Corpsmen!"

GMM2, USS Virginia (The Nuke Cruiser sitting rusting in Bremerton, not the sub.  SOB!)

325 Posted by: JamesLee at February 23, 2010 09:52 PM (d7tHU) Good to know. I was afraid he had been swallowed up into some gawdawful townhall.com alternate universe.

326

Oh well, you just knew this was coming.  JFC on a bike.  There are a million other things that could be done with our military, but of course they choose this non-issue issue.

(and the getting pregnant to get out of deployment is utter bs -- I can't stand freaking women who do that; they deserve the brig or something -- I would say placement in a penal battalion, so have fun making puns off of that; what can I say, I'm a giver)

Foreskins? Really?  Another non-issue if you ask me.  If you have religious reasons, fine; health reasons, double fine -- but if there are none of the above then I don't see the reason for it, unless it's an aesthetic thing for some people (and yeah, yeah hygiene -- it's called keeping yourself clean, although I'll grant it seems like a lot of people don't know how to wash up the naughty bits too well).

327 The problem I have is that many standards were lowered in order to allow them to serve in certain capacities.

I'm not sure why more women aren't disturbed by that.  That's so insulting.

328 Fubar. I'm 5'1 was a sheetrocker, cement finisher, for 20 years of my life, I'm cute and hot for my age, you telling me i can't do shit?

Posted by: willow at February 23, 2010 09:49 PM (7FgWm)

Of course not.  But physiologically, you can't do the same things that men can do.  You can't take as many Gs.  Can't lift as much weight.  You can do everything a man can do, except the last 10-15%.  Is all.  It's biology.

 

329 Ed posted at least 3x today.  Not big ones, but posts.

330 Poor Jeffrey Immelt. All turbined up and nowhere to blow.

331 So, willow, I'm sure that women can serve adequately.  Equally?  No.

332 @338 I saw a couple of his posts like the Lila Rose one, but it is so unlike Ed to be this quiet, I started to wonder.

333

Heh.  Always like the saying "Marines have a few good men:  Navy Corpsmen!"

We had a doc assigned to our CAP, one of the finest people I have ever met.

You do know that you are all Corpse Men now under the new administration right?

334 "US diplomats add a moat to their expenses at $1bn London embassy"It looks like a giant copy of the Apple Store in NYC.

335 The idea that I'm an anti-Semite is about as wrong as it's possible to be.

Posted by: Secundus at February 23, 2010 09:46 PM (WuvMD)

Do you need me to buy you a beer? I didn't call you an anti-semite. Hell, I was baptized Catholic, went to my first communion then quit the church. I was just getting the impression that you were one of those militant anti-circumcision guys that popped up during the '90's. As an atheist now, I feel that circumcision is the best way to go and my 2 sons have been circumcised not for any belief structure, but for a cleanliness structure and nothing else.

336 Absolutely, Heather!  +100%.  That's always been my stance on women in ANY job, military, firefighter, anything.  You can handle the standards that everyone meets for a job, you are eligible for the job.  The only requirement that should be adjusted for women is Body Fat %.  Not to be insulting or anything, but you all are just built different.  And thank God for that!

337

Social engineering in the military? Where you been?

Welcome to the party, pal!

338 That's interesting.  This guy ed isn't posting much and Ace isn't posting much.   hmmm

339 GMM2, USS Virginia (The Nuke Cruiser sitting rusting in Bremerton, not the sub.  SOB!)

Sweet. I've been in 11 years and never been on a ship for more than a few hours.

340

Willow,

I never meant to imply women can't do many things as well, or maybe even better than men.  I just subscribe to merit over sex. If a woman can do what a man can, without any lowered PT standards or work standards, then that is their, and their employers choice. That said, I'd rather have a 6'3 250 lbs fit man carrying me out of a burning building.

 For several reasons.

341 343 "US diplomats add a moat to their expenses at $1bn London embassy"It looks like a giant copy of the Apple Store in NYC. Perfect. I'm sure the lobby of the embassy will be stocked with iPods, filled with the collected mp3 speeches of Earflaps McBaritone, Pantywaist-In-Chief. They'll probably staff the place with twentysomethings in t-shirts and tattoos.

342 George. who is paying for this?  Where are they getting the cool billion?

343 I'm not sure why more women aren't disturbed by that.  That's so insulting.

Posted by: HeatherRadish at February 23, 2010 09:56 PM (OkT2m)

I know exactly why.  When I was in college there was a class discussion about career options.  Some blonde bimbo piped up and spoke of her genius plan to go into the field with the most unfilled set-asides/affirmative action positions.  That was how she planned to win the position - by having a vagina.  I looked at her, and in my disgust I made a grunt or other noise of utter derision - she, and most of the rest of the class, looked at me like I was the bad guy, instead of the bitch who was willing to cheat a more qualified candidate out of a job.  Apparently this is the new normal. 

If we must have women do all the same things men do, then at least separate the units by sex.  If women want combat arms, then so be it.  I'd have little remorse sending them into the meat grinder to get slaughtered if they insist on it.  At least I wouldn't have to worry about a bunch of young men doing irrational, suicidal things to pull their female comrades out of tough spots - overcoming their good sense out of a misplaced sense of chivalry.

344 Wonder if Obama is circumcised?

345 This administration is packed full of mindless fools . . . we'll be very luck if we survive these idiots.

346 The US taxpayer is paying for all of our embassies, of course. How could it be otherwise? And one billion is a rounding error when you use the special math of the Chicago Lightworker.

347 Wonder if Obama is circumcised?

Posted by: forskinner at February 23, 2010 10:04 PM (tgXx6)

Fuck I don't know, ask Chris Matthews

348

I never meant to imply women can't do many things as well, or maybe even better than men.  I just subscribe to merit over sex. If a woman can do what a man can, without any lowered PT standards or work standards, then that is their, and their employers choice. That said, I'd rather have a 6'3 250 lbs fit man carrying me out of a burning building.

 For several reasons.

Posted by: di butler, bitchy w/ a side of bacon at February 23, 2010 10:01 PM (S3xX1)

She left in a huff.  Must be on the rag.  _{Ikeed, Ikeed.}  I'm with Heather, of course.  Meet the same standards, go right ahead, ladies.

349

Vermin

I got out about '95.  I wanted to go back to sea, and the Detailer wanted to make me stand guard duty at Philly Navel Hospital for 18 months if I reupped.

And to think, I would have retired last year.  Or could have, at least.

Wonder if they need any Mk26 GMLS techs any more?

350 #349,

But that's not the whole story.The fact of the matter is that the military doesn't, and can't, accurately measure the physical attributes of each individual member, nor is there any guarantee that someones's level of physical conditioning won't degrade greatly--like say, during a pregnancy. 

351 312 OT but will somebody convince Allahpundit to take some of that crazy blog money that just fell on his head and use it to buy a clue

He's so busy putting up links to everything David Frum types up that I'm starting to wonder if he's really Frum's sockpuppet.

352

"they're still pissed over that whole 1776 thing."

 

What have you done lately, Yanks? The Greatest Generation gave you the most industrialized and the most dynamic country in the history of this planet, and you threw it all away, giving your industry to China, India and Brazil, and now look what you've got - 10% unemployment, and a country in chao with a bloody, incompetent twit sitting in your White House, a madman who wants to model the USA after a socialist Europe..

353 Where'd the British pussy go?

354 I'd go all Dr. Amy Bishop on someone's ass the first day.

Hey, the Dr. Bishop story is a saga that just keeps going. Looks like the husband wanted to go all medieval on people who gave his wife bad reviews: "Documents Reveal Ala. Professor's Husband Wanted Violent Revenge on Doctor." Husband quoted as saying he wanted to "shoot, bomb, stab, or strangle" his wife's then-supervisor.

Not sure the husband would be your ideal sub crew member any more than Dr. Bishop would.

http://tinyurl.com/ybxtm5h

355 Go Navy!

356 @324 Got nothing against Ed, or AP for that matter, but it seems like none of our full-timers really look at the mechanics of politics.  It's all reactive, not much proactive - in the blogs, among the pundits at NRO etc.  Maybe that'll change at some point but I doubt it.

357 Wonder if Obama is circumcised?

Posted by: forskinner at February 23, 2010 10:04 PM (tgXx6)

Fuck I don't know, ask Chris Matthews

I'd like to know too.

wut?

358 There he is.  Throwing stones from his glass house.  Britain died after WW2.

359 Wonder if Obama is circumcised?

Posted by: forskinner at February 23, 2010 10:04 PM (tgXx6)

He isn't, trust me.

360

344

Yeah. I'll be adding this one to my list of topics that are better left alone.

361

What have you done lately, Yanks? The Greatest Generation gave you the most industrialized and the most dynamic country in the history of this planet, and you threw it all away, giving your industry to China, India and Brazil, and now look what you've got - 10% unemployment, and a country in chao with a bloody, incompetent twit sitting in your White House, a madman who wants to model the USA after a socialist Europe..

Posted by: Some get it, some don't at February 23, 2010 10:07 PM (ITzbJ)

Other than crossing the fucking ocean and saving your miserable asses evey time some 3rd rate mass murderer looks crosseyed at you , not much.

362 Ed, you are such a fucking twat. Honestly, you have no idea what the fuck you are talking about. Once the Won pushes this crap through, you put your money where your mouth is and sign up. Either go on a sub with women, or go to Astan with a homo. Otherwise, who the hell do you think you are pushing your uninformed opinion on those that volunteer to do what you are to chickenshit to do.

363 350 343 "US diplomats add a moat to their expenses at $1bn London embassy"It looks like a giant copy of the Apple Store in NYC.

Holy Grail? We've already got one! Now go away or I shall taunt you again!

364

What have you done lately, Yanks? The Greatest Generation gave you the most industrialized and the most dynamic country in the history of this planet, and you threw it all away, giving your industry to China, India and Brazil, and now look what you've got - 10% unemployment, and a country in chao with a bloody, incompetent twit sitting in your White House, a madman who wants to model the USA after a socialist Europe..

Posted by: Some get it, some don't at February 23, 2010 10:07 PM (ITzbJ)

Sadly he's got us there. 

The fact is that there is still a goodly number of what I call the REAL Brits - the ones who would fit in well with us morons.  They're not all dead, but they're swamped under a wave of human degenerates - the socialists.  Much like we in the US are getting to be.  Let's not forget that a huge portion of the births in the US are to the welfare scum and other social undesirables.  They'll outbreed us and we'll be in the same shitty state that England is today.  Both our nations will be pathetic milksops.

365

It's worse in the UK than I thought:

"A Hertfordshire recruitment agency boss says she was told she could not request "reliable and hard-working" applicants."

"Devonwood Recruitment boss Nicole Mamo said the Jobcentre Plus in Thetford, Norfolk, told her such an advert could be "offensive" to unreliable people. "

366 Why in the uncircumcised purple passion of Jeebus does anyone, especially Eeyorepundit, link to David Frum? Who the sweet everlovin' fuck reads the guy? Who? I'll bet the website of the model railroad society of Peoria, Illinois gets more traffic than Frum's. The only people who like what he's peddling are libtards who use him as a fig leaf to burnish their ideas of being "bipartisan" and "reading all sides." Ditto for David Brooks. At least Brooks has a column in a failing shadow of a newspaper. Frum has a keyboard in a basement.

367 I mean, who else but a nation of pussies would kick Winston Churchill out of office after he had just led them through WW2?

368

"A Hertfordshire recruitment agency boss says she was told she could not request "reliable and hard-working" applicants."
"Devonwood Recruitment boss Nicole Mamo said the Jobcentre Plus in Thetford, Norfolk, told her such an advert could be "offensive" to unreliable people. "

Posted by: no shit at February 23, 2010 10:12 PM (ucq49)

Give it 5 years - it'll be the same here.

369

Posted by: Reactionary at February 23, 2010 10:11 PM (4nbyM)

You're watching too much Glen Beck.

370 I mean, who else but a nation of pussies would kick Winston Churchill out of office after he had just led them through WW2?

Posted by: FUBAR at February 23, 2010 10:13 PM (1fanL)

I wouldn't go there, George Herbert Walker Bush.

371

Posted by: no shit

Okay, I'm wrong.  The Royal Marines are badass, but the rest of the UK is obviously a write-off.

How much do those Rosetta Stone courses cost?

372 Other than crossing the fucking ocean and saving your miserable asses evey time some 3rd rate mass murderer looks crosseyed at you , not much.

Hell, the leftists still complain that we are in Iraq, but we have been in Britain, Germany, Spain, Italy, Netherlands, Denmark, Japan, Korea etc... for 60 plus years. So in essence, we've been saving their asses on their own fucking land from all the crosseyed fucks since 1945.

373 Why in the uncircumcised purple passion of Jeebus does anyone, especially Eeyorepundit, link to David Frum?

Good question.  Frum is, essentially, a soft-headed speech writer.  Not a political leader.  Not a happy warrior.  Not a deep thinker.  Not an innovator.  Not really even someone who got to deliver his own best stuff in his own name.  Just a guy who wrote some stuff Bush said.  Why he merits links and discussion boils down to the fact that he ticks people off, and that generates traffic.

374 Posted by: Royal Dick Cheese inspector with Aids thanks to Barack. at February 23, 2010 10:17 PM (nxUYP)

Fuck you sock!

375

It's a hard thing to answer but in my not completely ignorant opinion -- no, it is not insulting to know one's limitations.  Have I met women who could serve right alongside men in any area?  Yes; there was a sargeant who could out man just about any man on the face of the planet...but those sorts of women are not the norm imho.  Most women cannot handle the intense physically hardship of combat -- it isn't a case of being able to do it for one day or three days, try week after week (and you better factor in a lot of sleep deprivation which from my experience women do not handle as well as men).  Very few women can hack it -- and if one woman gets to do it, then it opens it up for everyone else (and you can't really ascertain who will be one of the few that can really hack it until you do it -- even the crucible doesn't really stand in for actual combat duties -- so you're not going to know until you're out in the field and that is too fucking late).  I would have loved to have been a combat marine; my daughters would love to have gotten the shot at being Rangers -- but we loved/love our country enough and loved our Corps/Army enough to know that putting us there would have reduced combat effectiveness; sometimes you have to shelve your own personal wants and accept what's for the greater good, and winning wars for the U.S. is the greater good.

As for technical jobs -- yeah, females can handle them, but sea duty, especially submarine duty is really not the place for co-ed.  Just because there are rules against the hanky panky doesn't mean it doesn't happen, and especially in the close quarters of a ship or sub, well, it isn't conducive to people keeping their minds totally on the job at hand. Which leads us right back to the pregnancy *and prostitution and std thing -- how is that conducive to military effectiveness?  It's crazy; we shouldn't have to set aside money and man hours to deal with that bull crap -- either the women already in start getting some more discipline or, hell, I don't know.  Pisses me off.

376

377

366 -- Horton Heat, as in the Reverend?

Cool band, great partiers, good times.

378 I guess the post, that shall not be mentioned, is up

379 366 As in, but obviously I'm not him or them or whatever.  I just dig the name and the band and remember their weird posters n stuff.

380 I have a relative who's an Ob in the military, and he says women don't belong with men because of the resultant pregnancies. Some women even try to get pregnant because they can get out of the service or deployment. 

381 I wonder if they could ask women if they want to do this and if they say they don't then allow them not to.  That would be a good solution. 

382 As for this women on subs story, anyone who's ever been on a sub - and I've been on one - knows that this is a bad idea.  The close confines almost force frequent bodily contact, and that will practically guarantee all kinds of problems from sexual harassment claims to jealousy to just about anything and everything else.  This could only come from an administration made up of fringe agitators led by someone who's never done any practical job or led any real organization in his life.

Can this be done?  Yes, with serious discipline spelled out up front.  Will it lead to trouble?  Without a doubt.  Does the Obama admin care?  Magic 8 Ball says "Not likely."

383 Bob Gates fits right into the Douche administration don't he?

384

I saw a lot of women in the Navy. Some nights, I was really glad they were on board. Most were pretty, and loved to get naked. Love, and kisses to you.

 

Now, what you squids do does not matter to me, but you split tails get the bloody hell out of my Marine Corp! You can't do the pull ups, you can't do the 3 mile run within the limits!

 

The Marine Corp had to change the limits for you, and you think you can call yourself a United States Marine? It makes me want to puke!

385 wow.....

a society in decline......

to argue this point while facing the (obvious) cold hard facts of combat effectiveness versus gender interaction, equality of sexes and other social engineering pap is yet one more sign of a society in decline.... when did we lose so much respect for each other (vis-a-vis men vs. women)? The block-headed, cold hearted, caveman facts of life are simple; given equal size and training a male will always win a physical contest against a female. Males have a built in mechanical advantage..... physics is never wrong.

I hereby issue a challenge to my more "enlightened" and "intelligent" brothers and sisters;
Name one society (not fictitious, rumored or unsubstantiated) that had a statistically significant percentage of their regular combat forces who were female..... and survived for any significant period of time.

True respect is in showing deference when deference is due or warranted. There's a reason why we (men / women / homo sapiens) are at the top of the food chain and it's not because of political correctness.

(walking away, shaking head in disgust...)

386 382 Other than crossing the fucking ocean and saving your miserable asses evey time some 3rd rate mass murderer looks crosseyed at you , not much.

Hell, the leftists still complain that we are in Iraq, but we have been in Britain, Germany, Spain, Italy, Netherlands, Denmark, Japan, Korea etc... for 60 plus years. So in essence, we've been saving their asses on their own fucking land from all the crosseyed fucks since 1945.

Posted by: Royal Dick Cheese inspector with Aids thanks to Barack. at February 23, 2010 10:17 PM (nxUYP)

 

What I read there in both of those paragraphs was revisionist history. Obviously, you got your knowledge of military campaigns from watching fictional war movies. You're dead wrong on many counts too numerous to list here.

387 They will just have to have an all female sub.

388

389 -- Used to catch their shows every time they were in the area -- they rocked.  So...you into rockabilly?

Uh, I did the 3 mile within the limits; I'll grant the pull up were a bitch, but I did them (my DI dad put me through his own version of basic -- the one before the stress cards and the prohibitions on slapping people -- once he got over cussing at me for not joining the Air Force).  I was also used to doing farm work (like hay baling and cow barn mucking, by hand) and I had to keep up with the men; did it since I was 13 -- that did make a difference.

So, while I agree that women should not be put into positions where the vast majority of them will not be effective (due to physical limitations), if you would be so kind there...brother...and cool it with the shit.  God bless your ass, and Semper Fi.

389 372 Ed, you are such a fucking twat.

Honestly, you have no idea what the fuck you are talking about. Once the Won pushes this crap through, you put your money where your mouth is and sign up.
Either go on a sub with women, or go to Astan with a homo. Otherwise, who the hell do you think you are pushing your uninformed opinion on those that volunteer to do what you are to chickenshit to do.

Posted by: Sit on a potato pan, Otis at February 23, 2010 10:10 PM (QBQcg)

Why Otis, what an ugly thing to say.  I abhor ugliness.  Does this mean that we're not friends anymore?  You know Otis, if I thought you weren't my friend, I just don't think I could bear it...

390 Way back when, I actually got a priority number for the draft when it was winding down in the 70's so it still comes to mind.  Why do we have a draft board with "Don't ask, don't tell?"  Anyone can get out of the draft.

391 397 They will just have to have an all female sub.

Posted by: curious at February 23, 2010 11:17 PM (p302b)

 

Yeah, but with a male skipper, so that the women can nag him into taking the next left, or they're going to get lost. Pity the poor skipper, though, who has a few hundred back seat drivers hassling him.

392 Speaking of missiles, as in Missile Defense Agency, you don't want to read this:  http://tinyurl.com/yh8jfh8

393

395 Preach it; what you're saying is dead on target -- women are by and large not as physically capable as men and should therefore not be placed into positions in the military where there is a heavy physical component (I'd add that you can "whip" male recruits into shape quicker as well, so women up for a draft makes no sense, unless you want to up the casualty rate and lower combat effectiveness).  There is no shame in admitting your limitations and having the sense to not go where you simply can't do the job, so I don't know why this is such a big issue.

And yeah, I think that women should be able to at least make the minimum requirements in pt that the men do -- if you want to be a member of the team, you should at least be able to play according to the rest of the team's standards; maybe not be the fastest or the strongest, but at least make the minimum requirements for the rest of the team.  It was bs that they put different standards according to gender imho.

394

Yeah, we probably will.  We did it for two separate centuries (18th and 19th) and it kept them on the straight and narrow. (Revolutionary war, War of 1812). 

Posted by: Ed at February 23, 2010 09:53 PM (OCfDT)

I dunno wtf you've been smoking but the US went to war in 1812 to invade canada and barely got out intact only because britain didn't feel like fighting you after bitch slapping napoleon all over the place. You have to be the first person I've met who thinks the US actually won the war of 1812.

395 And here is why I'm retiring.  Its the only honorable thing to do.  None of this; the DADT, the women in combat, or any other nifty thing that these folks come up with is the answer to the unasked question; how can we make the military more effective?  There is no "right" to serve.  Whether or not you are in the service or not has little to do with whether you "want" to be there.  The only thing that matters is if you can do the things the services think are relevant to the MOS/AFSC you're applying for.
Until we started the social engineering.  When I went through MEPS, I had to lift a certain amount over my head.  The women didn't. Funny thing, the F-4 didn't care whether you were a man/woman, the tire that needed changing, or the J-79 still weighed the same.  If you were a female, that just meant that whats normally a one person job became two; which cuts your organization in half.  And yes, in the 22 years I've been in, I've seen MOST women (not all) use their sex to their advantage; not getting in trouble for low performance (pilot training x2) lying and stealing (in OTS, we had two women in our flight; one, a good person, washed back for low test scores, bucked up, and eventually did OK.  The other was caught stealing, lying about it, and trying to pin the blame on a subordinate.  We were told the cadre was not allowed to boot her, as it would look like the flight was biased.  The "field" would weed them out. So she went on to her job as a nuke missile launch officer: sleep well) and even getting promoted.  Try to figure out statistically what percentage of females SHOULD be execs, or executive secretaries. And then look at how many are.  You dont think women are specially treated?  Check on the promotion dates of the Vice CC of AFMC.  The "woman" general left, and all of the sudden, another one shows up.  Check out the last two promotion dates, MG in June 09, LtG in Dec 09.  That damn glass ceiling.
Couple that with the fact that sexual assault is now a "lingering glance" and that many women do indeed get pregnant before operations (anecdotally, one of my first flight instructors had two kids in an operational unit in the 5 years that I was there.  That means she didn't fly for more than half the time I was there.  Then she transferred to the reserves.)   But the sorties, and the missions didn't abate.  That means that others picked up her slack.
Tell you what.  I'll meet all you advocates of the "rights" coalition halfway.  If women are necessary to the functioning of the military, then clearly, the law that says that only males must register for the draft is obsolete.  When ALL women are denied federal grants, college loans and subject to jail for NOT registering with selective service, and given as much choice in MOS as every other person (including the no-choice combat option) then by all means.
I've been in since 1987.  I've been a crew chief, nuke weapons officer and pilot.  I'm told I'm on the fast track.
But I cant do it.  Our leaders care more about their careers than the truth.  52% elected a man who hates the military.  A few years before that, another who "loathed" the military was handed the reins for 8 years.  I've been involved in operations since desert storm, desert fox, OIF, and OEF.  I've left my family over and over.  I've been shot at a few times, and mortar'd and rocketed a few more. Im sure not as much as the internet hard cases, but enough. I have a wonderful daughter and son, and have been married to the same girl for 22 years.
  Im no longer going to offer myself to unappreciative flock.  No longer going to be put at risk by a populace who would call me a sexist for insisting on one standard (no, in the USAF woman don't have to do the same physical fitness test as I do).
No, I'm not bitter at women; or gays; or anyone.
I'm sad.  It will break my heart to turn in my wings, and my maintenance badge.
But its the honorable thing to do.

396 Why do so many conservatives buy this shit?

They know the leftists loathe the military and they are the ones at the forefront of pushing this PC bullshit. Why? Do conservatives actually think they have the best interests of the military at heart... or the country?

The leftists have consistantly sided with the external enemies of the United States such as Soviet Communism, Communist China, Cuba, and now the Muslims.

So when they spout this crap about 'rights for everyone' in the military what purpose do conservatives think they have in mind?

397 Got in an unprovoked barfight in London alongside a Royal Marine vet who was a Falklands vet a few years back. He was tough as week old haggis and got me out of trouble I did not bring upon myself except speaking with a Yank accent.

Don't write 'em all off because of their current political leadership.

398

405 You really think that's the honorable thing to do?  Or are you just pissed off? (which I can understand, because I've seen a lot of what you've seen, so have my daughters -- and as women who want to serve and make good by their oaths, well, it's not only hard but it can be an embarassment -- we get embarassed by some of the women, believe me, you have no idea how ashamed)

What about your oath?  What about doing your job, even when the shit is up past your nostrils...because of that oath?  I understand where you're coming from -- but what happens when more and more people start getting the same idea?  It isn't going to change things -- just means it will be the slackers and the grifters manning the guns, now won't it? (yeah, I've had this talk with one of my kids already -- her end of things sounded a lot, minus the kids and all, like yours; I know where it is your coming from, but...).

Oh, goodnight, time for a smoke -- this is getting to me.

399 389 Yeah, rockabilly's cool.  I listen to a whole lot of stuff.

400 Want to punish terrorists after they're captured? Force them to read the drivel on the ONT for one night, while simultaneously listening to Fran Drescher's screeching. If that won't prevent recidivism, nothing will.

401 404

Yeah, we probably will.  We did it for two separate centuries (18th and 19th) and it kept them on the straight and narrow. (Revolutionary war, War of 1812). 

Posted by: Ed at February 23, 2010 09:53 PM (OCfDT)

I dunno wtf you've been smoking but the US went to war in 1812 to invade canada and barely got out intact only because britain didn't feel like fighting you after bitch slapping napoleon all over the place. You have to be the first person I've met who thinks the US actually won the war of 1812.

Posted by: Michael at February 23, 2010 11:33 PM (xVKXy)

Boy, aren't you proud of beating the Fwench.  I guess you were really puching above your weight class, eh?

402 Yeah, all those damned liberals socially engineering us. Liberals like Admiral Mike Mullen, Chairmain of the Joint Chiefs of Staff (lol Obama stooge, amirite?) Why yes, there would be no conceivable practical reason to open up the most selective, high-attrition, hard-to-fill areas of the Navy to half of the goddamn population. Nosirree, keep those PMSers out of my boat! LOL pregnancy jokes! It was ADM Mullen's idea. It is a smart fricking idea. No men want to go on subs. The manpower, as it were, is vitally needed. There is absolutely no practical reason aside from berthing space to prevent women from going on subs when they already do fine on ships. The first women are almost definitely going to be officers and possibly chiefs. Twice-handpicked. It will be a non-issue. This is an incredibly disingenuous and inaccurate post, and the commenters in here are behaving exactly the liberals who think servicemembers are incompetent animals. It's wrong, sexist, inaccurate, and hypocritical.

403 Admiral Mullen's proposal: http://tinyurl.com/y8hnxql

404 "When the chief of staff of the United States Army has got the disease, you're in big (and probably terminal) trouble." 

405 There is absolutely no practical reason aside from berthing space to prevent women from going on subs when they already do fine on ships.

And you know this because you have been there, right?  No?  Shut it, ass.

406 But now they're a bunch of pussies.

Like Obama and his administration.

407

I dub thee new wimmins of the under sea to be called

subcorpseppl , that'll help with that corpse stigma  and  next I'll work on the seeing dead ppl...

barwreck hussain obumbles

if you thought I was a idiot before

you ain't seen not yet

408 There is no constitutional right to join the military or be on a submarine.

409 Weapons grade stupid.

410 Allen West has an honest face, don't you think?

411

I was in the Navy for 7 years and they had just started placing women on board ships in my last year.  The first vessel they placed them on was decommisioned rather than admit failure after ALL of them got pregnant in less than a year.

Now that they are on even aircraft carriers I suspect that this is still going on, not to mention the other problems placing a few hundred women on board a ship with 5,000 guys causes.

It is my beleife that women do not belong on any vessels at sea unless they agree to supervised sterilization via something like Norplant. And then I would not allow it unless the y placed them on board in signirtifacnt numbers in relation to the number of males and they elliminated all the PC double standard bullshit.  i.e. they had to quyalify using the same standards as everyone else in the same rating. If your job requires you to close a damn 36" Main Steam Isolation Valve in a 100°F engine room then you better be able to do that.

And all the problems that exist on a large ship which has more flexibility with birthing etc will be hugely magnified on a submarine which requires dense pack living that most people simply can not fathom.

One other problem is that I note the idiots will put them on missile boats first because they are "larger". Hahahahaha, shows how stupid they are.  Missile boats are larger because there is a huge section of the boat dedicated to, you know missiles. The birthing compartments are no bigger. Also, missile boats hide throughout their cruise.  people have died on those boats because they will not surface to offload patients.  What will happen when one of these women gets pregant on a cruise. They'll have to deliver the baby and figure out a way to keep it quite.

This is just a stupid bad idea and continues to the march to destroy our military through stupid PC. The BS in TX with the Muslims evidently wasn't enough.  

   

412 "Sheesh.  What can you say?  Need to clone Petraeus and Odierno."

I think I'd rather have General Mattis in the cloning vat. Any Marine general who earns the nicks of "mad dog" and "warrior monk" has to have some nads.

Some Mattis quotes:

"I come in peace. I didn't bring artillery. But I'm pleading with you, with tears in my eyes: If you fuck with me, I'll kill you all."
-to Iraqi tribal leaders in the Al Anbar region.

"You go into Afghanistan, you got guys who slap women around for five years because they didn't wear a veil. You know, guys like that ain't got no manhood left anyway. So it's a hell of a lot of fun to shoot them. Actually it's quite fun to fight them, you know. It's a hell of a hoot. It's fun to shoot some people. I'll be right up there with you. I like brawling."
- said during a panel discussion in San Diego, California (1 February 2005.

"Be polite, be professional, but have a plan to kill everybody you meet."


"It's the mission of every Marine in this Battalion to send one dead Iraqi home to Mama."
- Speech before Task Force Ripper offensive to recapture Kuwait during Desert Storm.

Mattis, who led the Marines in the invasion of Afghanistan in 2001 and led the 1st Marine Division in the invasion of Iraq and march to Baghdad in early 2003, said he was once asked by an Iraqi when he would leave that country.

"I said I am never going to leave. I told him I had found a little piece of property down on the Euphrates River and I was going to have a retirement home built there.

"I did that because I wanted to disabuse him of any sense that he could wait me out."

Reporter – What happened yesterday at 3 a.m. in Al Qaim? Was there a wedding on? A wedding celebration?

Gen. Mattis – You joined us a little late, as I said to the young lady here, I said how many people how many people go to the desert 10 miles from the Syrian border and hold a wedding 80 miles from the nearest civilization? Over two dozen military-aged males… let’s not be naïve, let’s leave it at that.

413

Vic is our resident Naval Observer.

 _{(He spends hours in his bathtub contemplating his naval.)}

414

Posted by: Some get it, some don't at February 24, 2010 07:58 AM (ITzbJ) alias A Casual Observation

You know, after reading your comments over the last several days you strike me as nothing more than an argumenative concern troll. So why don't you go back to Kos where you belong asshole. You never submit anything meaningful here.

415

he he he he he

416

Whoa, and here, folks, is one of Vic's "meaningful" contributions:

_{The news of today. My damn Kenmore dryer quit last night and it is only a few years old. It had started making a screeching noise a few weeks ago so I knew something was up.}

_{In any case the drum froze up and can barely be turned by hand. A little research says "bad bearing" requiring a complete tear-down of the thing. After a $50.00 service call, $50.00 for the part and a couple of $100 in labor it makes repair not an option (and people wonder why we are now a throw-away society).}

_{A little research on dependable dryers shows that NONE are dependable from what I can tell. The one I have had all kind of little bells and whistles that made my wife like which I never used if I dried stuff. All this did was make it cost more.}

_{I think I will go out today and see if I can find one with nothing but an on-off switch that maybe I will not have to get a second mortgage on the house to buy.}

_{Posted by: Vic at February 24, 2010 08:00 AM (QrA9E)}

he he he he he

 

 

 

 

417 One of gates "successes" was his introducing diversity to the school he headed in texas.  As part of that wonderful experiment, he managed to tank their educational standards, but my goodness, they are now diverse.  They were delighted to see the end of him so they could try to redeem the status of their college.
Now, in a time of war, we are going to do social experiments....will these people get real?  Before we pay with our lives for their experiments.

418 That's gonna turn out well.....for a bunch of sex starved dudes stuck for months on end in an underwater tube.

419 What about Obama's social experiment with Iran? Can't wait to see what happens when they get nukes, can you? Obama's incompetence is mind-boggling.

420

408,

Nope, Im not mad.  My oath is  to defend against "all enemies, foreign and domestic".  Anything that weakens the ability of the services to defend this country is an enemy, no?  Like any 5th column movement or anything else that isn't a face to face confrontation with the enemy.  The military, with such high stakes, has no room for this.  This whole argument about being anti women (you didn't make it: not putting words in your mouth) is right up there with every critique of the POTUS being turned into a racist argument.  In fact, I really get steamed when I think about all the perfectly competent, value adding females out there who have to put up with the extra baggage.  That would go away if there was one standard to be a military person.  Without regard for age, or race, or height or whatever.  But the services aren't ready to answer the mail when it comes out that there are 5% of women that CAN hack it. (Just made that number up; point is that corporate service chiefs have to have the "right" number of protected classes in reports).  And that fact hurts readiness.  But I have known some really SH females in my time, ones I respect a great deal.

As far as nibbles is concerned, Im not sure what the point is about ADM Mullen.  It sort of reinforces the whole " top brass will say just about anything to stay politically correct" thing.

Like this, from Gen Casey; "...and as horrific as this tragedy was, if our diversity becomes a casualty, I think that's worse," .  Yep, hes the boss, so he must be right.

As far as the sexist, wrong, hypocritical statement; I assume you're on board with the selective service adjustment then, and the equalization of standards then.  It IS sexist, hypocritical and wrong to pretend that that things are equal here.  Liberals hate the military anyway, right now they cant get away with spitting on me.  But they would like to.

If women and gays are critical to the functioning of a high performing military, then make it mandatory to serve.  The selective service can help with that.  Now, find me a statement where ADM Mullen says "..in fact, women are so crucial to the functioning of the Navy, that  we need to draft at least 50% into our service in all MOS's (or whatever the heck  the squids call it)"

What kind of statement is it when you tell your son that he has to register for the draft, while his sister does not?  Because his life is required for the defense of the nation, while hers is too precious.  Is that sexist?  Hypocritical? Wrong?

And finally, Jane, there is a part of me that wishes that all the right thinking folks would quit (that includes women btw).  Let the PC police do the heavy lifting. See how far that gets them.  Let Atlas Shrug.

Repectfully,

 

421 As if the friggin Navy doesn't already have enough problems with their floating brothels.
Now they want to add a new venue to their repertoire.
Way to go Navy.
Up periscope!
Down periscope!
Up periscope!
Etc.

422

Well, MikeB we do agree on a lot of things (and there have been dark moments where I've thought it would serve this country right to have all the squared away folks drop out of the military, or go on strike), but if all the squared away folks got out what would happen?  We just can't have that either, you know?  Like I tell my girls: it's a fair old bit of bullshit, but none of us is going to change it -- do your job, remember your oath, and try your best even in adversity.  My dad said that to me, and I said it to them -- will be telling the same to my son when his time comes.

And yeah, imho, women should be able to make the minimum standards and those standards should be across the board and they should be held to the same standards of combat readiness as the men -- I'm sick of this special treatment bullshit; either buck the fuck up or go home, and your sexual preference shouldn't be an issue either -- it has nothing to do with your job, keep it at home where it belongs, do your damn job, and don't make it an issue.  As far as the draft is concerned -- if women want to be represented in every MOS, then they should sign up for selective service (although I think both are a big frakking mistake, because most women are not and cannot be prepared for heavy combat assignments).  As for women on subs -- oh please, I've been on a sub and seen the conditions of living in one (had friends in the service) it's hard enough having a bunch of men stuck on those things; throwing women into the mix would be snafu (yes, there are some women who could do it well, well being key -- not many though, and the discipline issues...oy).

423

412 Yeah, all those damned liberals socially engineering us. Liberals like Admiral Mike Mullen, Chairmain of the Joint Chiefs of Staff (lol Obama stooge, amirite?)

You got that right, shipmate. Midnite Mike's a bigtime lib, as anybody who served with him in the Pentagon could tell you. And he serves at the pleasure of his bigger-time lib boss, Prof. Obama.

Although he did do one thing right, one time. His first official act after being sworn in as CNO was to go back to his office and relieve Asshat Joe Sestak of his DCNO slot.

424 Just the latest great new idea by the folks who decided gender was a social construct, not a biological reality (and we're all guaranteed equal outcomes, and the glaciers are melting, and H1N1 will devastate society).  I went to a women's college (now a lesbian stronghold) and believe me, most women are airheads who should not have the franchise.  Feel free folks, bombs away - because frankly I just don't give a damn.  Decline and fall.

425 435 OT, but J. Moses I just had to let ya know that little automatic rifle of yours makes me get a bit warm and tingly...thanks for the thrill up my leg dude, no lie. (wink and a kiss)

426

"Thing is, unless I missed a memo, life isn't fair."

Neither is misplaced stereotypical misogyny.

Just the mere mention of the sacrifice and bravery of female Soldiers in war is called "social engineering".

Since women first enetered the U.S. military and since the first female picked up a weapon and fought back, there's always been a chorus of boos.

Everytime someone suggests that women in the military (who already serve with honor and pull their weight) go into an area heretofore dominated by men, catterwalling ensues punctuated by "women can't do this" and "women can't do that".  There's usually a "no gurlz allowed" sign hanging on the door, too.

I was in for a total of 30 years (10 Reserve 20 Active).  I was deployed to two wars and a so-called "peace-keeping mission".  I endured the same hardships, dangers and demands as my male counterparts. I lived and worked in austere conditions, lifted and carried heavy equipment and never hesitated to assist in the effort to help the enemy die for their country. SCUD launches, mortar attacks, bunker sweeps, minefields and bullets were shared by everyone, regardless of gender. As an S2 NCO, I jumped ahead of my unit in OIF via Black Hawk and Ground Assault convoy to set up forward intelligence operations. I dug hasty defensive positions, set up sectors of fire, and dug my own latrine with my e-tool.
 
I averaged 70 pushups on the APFT, and I still lift weights
 
The obstacles for me were things like sexism and yes, racism. If you think racism is a one-way street, think again. Most of the epithets directed toward me during my first tour of duty were from black male Soldiers. The sexism usually involved hostility in the form of resentment when a female proved she could do the same job with just as much ability and dedication. Back then, “Equal Opportunity” meant being treated badly by all males regardless of ethnicity. It was a rite of passage to which females were subject.
 
Another thing: I hate being the scapegoat for another female's faults.  One female screws up, all females get blamed.  Males don't suffer the same consequences. Most female Soldiers I knew, carried their weight and served honorably.  If a female military member becomes pregnant, IMO, she should be placed in a medical detachment until she is fit for duty again. 
Me, I never got pregnant, and I had all the plumbing removed when I was 32.

By the way: women have been in war since time immemorial. Anyone who requires proof need only do a little research to find copious historical facts about female warriors, both individual and organized.
 
Just a few examples:
 
Deborah, one of the Judges of Israel. Source: The Bible (Book of Judges)
 
In 529 BC, Tomyris, Queen of the Massagetae in southwest Asia, led her armies in defeating the invasion of Cyrus the Great of Persia.
 
In 61 AD Queen Boudicca of the Iceni of Norfolk led a major rebellion against the Romans during which she sacked and burned modern day London and St. Albans.
 
Revolutionary War:
 
Margaret Cochran Corbin, born in Pennsylvania in 1751, was assisting her husband John with his cannon when he was killed on Nov. 16, 1776 during a British and Hessian attack on Fort Washington, New York. She took over the cannon and continued to fire at the enemy until she was seriously wounded and lost the use of her arm. In 1779 she was awarded a disabled soldier's pension by the Continental Congress and in 1780 became the only woman enrolled in the "Invalid Regiment" which was stationed at West Point. When the "Invalid Regiment" was disbanded in 1783 Corbin remained in the area drawing her supplies from the commissary and being cared for by the military. She is buried in the soldier's graveyard behind the Old Cadet Chapel at the U.S. Military Academy at West Point where a bronze plaque commemorates her as "the first American woman to take a soldier's part in the War for Liberty".
 
Mary Ludwig Hays McCauley served alongside her husband, John Hays, in the 1st Pennsylvania Artillery and later in the 7th Pennsylvania Regiment. On the battlefield she carried water, swabbed out cannon bores and loaded shot. When John was seriously wounded in June 1778 while fighting at Monmouth, New Jersey, Mary ignored her own wounds and operated his cannon until the battle ended. After the war she was awarded a veteranÂ’s pension of $40 per year by the State of Pennsylvania. She is believed by many historians to be the inspiration for the legendary "Molly Pitcher".
Deborah Samson (some sources use the spelling Sampson) served with the 4th Massachusetts Regiment disguised as Robert Shurheff (some sources use the spelling Shirtliffe or Shurtliff) from May 1782 until October 1783. She was wounded in a skirmish near Tarrytown, New York and according to some sources was later hit by a musket ball in another skirmish at East Chester. Once her gender was discovered she was given an honorable discharge on October 23, 1783. After the war Deborah married Benjamin Gannett and had three children (Earl, Pauline and Mary). On January 19, 1792, at the urging of Paul Revere who was convinced she should receive a veterans pension, the Massachusetts legislature granted Deborah 34 pounds sterling with interest from her date of discharge. She died on April 29, 1827 and is buried in Rock Ridge Cemetery in Sharon Massachusetts. In 1944 the liberty ship Deborah Sampson Gannett was christened in her honor. On May 23, 1983 she was named the Official Heroine of the Commonwealth of Massachusetts and in 1985 was honored with a Commemorative Medal by the U.S. Capitol Society.
 
Civil War:
 
Kady (aka Kate) Brownell served as a markswoman with the 1st Rhode Island Infantry Volunteers during the Civil War. She fought openly as a woman in several battles alongside her husband Robert and guarded her unit's flag during the first battle of Bull Run. In August 1861 the 1st Rhode Island disbanded and the Brownells each received a regular army discharge. They reenlisted in the 5th Rhode Island Infantry the following October. Although Kady was ordered to remain at the rear during engagements some contemporary accounts place her on the battlefield at New Bern, North Carolina where Robert was wounded. The Brownell's were transferred to New York where Robert spent several months recuperating in the Soldier's Relief Hospital. They were both discharged in the winter of 1863. In 1884 Kady Brownell was granted a veteran's pension of $8 per month. A surviving photograph taken during her service with the 1st Rhode Island, shows her armed with a sword and wearing a knee length dress over pants.
 
WWI
 
In 1915 Madame Arno, an artist, organized a regiment of Parisian women to fight the Germans. Helene Dutreux was the first of a number of women the French government officially permitted to become military pilots during WW I. Emilienne Moreau fought in the front ranks in a number of actions including the Battle of Loos where she killed two snipers. She was awarded the Croix de Guerre, the Bristish Red Cross Medal and the St. John Ambulance Society Medal. In 1940 she once again fought for her country earning a second Croix de Guerre.
 
WWII
 
Elena Haas fought with the Czech Resistance. In 1944 she led a raid that destroyed a vital and heavily guarded bridge. Leading several other raids she destroyed Nazi supplies and ammunition as well as killing many of the enemy. She died in 1945 while leading a raid against an airfield.
About 1,000 women aviators were trained as fighter and military transport pilots, 30 of them were awarded the Gold Star of a Hero of the Soviet Union for their heroism in combat. Three aviation regiments, the 586th Women's Fighter Regiment, the 587th Women's Bomber Regiment and the 588th Women's Night Bomber Regiment utilized only women pilots, engineers and mechanics. Major Tamara Aleksandrovna commanded a Russian all-female air-borne regiment on more than 400 sorties and 125 combat engagements. She and the women she commanded shot down thirty-eight enemy aircraft during aerial combat. Polina Gelman was a bomber pilot who flew 18 combat missions and was decorated five times.
 
There's also plenty of examples from Korea, Vietnam, Desert Storm, and OIF.

First All-female Crew Flies Combat Mission
http://tinyurl.com/7swte

Lioness: The Story of American Female Warriors 

http://tunyurl.com/deu5sg

Army Specialist Monica Brow

http://tinyurl.com/ckfxyq

Army Sergeant Leigh Ann Hester
http://tinyurl.com/dfv2rz

Everyone has abilities and limitations, regardless of gender. The problem is that some people just canÂ’t accept women being in wartime life-threatening situations, which is laughable because women around the planet are subjected to danger every damned day of the week.

So, if you've never been there, or you're just too boneheaded to give women the fair shake we've earned, just shut the fuck up. I'm sick of your whining.

427 I was about to suggest it might be a good idea to begin the practice of having a "ship's whore" aboard certain, long-at-sea vessels.  Nuke subs being some of the longest-at-sea vessels in human history, this would be an innovation of sorts (assuming the "cabin boy" post, and the "one that we call Sally" crewman aren't recruited directly for this purpose).

Then I decided I should look up the history of the "ship's whore," since it seems at odds with the tradition of "no women on board."  Curiously, a quick Googling of the term +"ship's whore" seems to turn up mostly fan-boy references in fantasy and SF literature, as well as Pirate fantasy stuff.

Does anyone else know if the concept of "ship's whore" is one that has ever been part of a functioning Navy?

(Yes this is an off-topic.  "Women serving on subs" is distantly related, but I don't mean to disparage the women warriors who serve in uniform.)

428

438 So, if you've never been there, or you're just too boneheaded to give women the fair shake we've earned, just shut the fuck up. I'm sick of your whining.

I've been there, honey. As an officer in the United States Navy, not in whatever ground-pounding service you were an NCO in.

So I'd say you fit neatly into the category of people who've "never been there" when it comes to submarines, and should immediately STFU until you find out what you're talking about.

429

 SFC MAC at February 24, 2010 01:20 PM (/9h7Q)

Get a life Butch...If you add up all the "lost" combat effectiveness due to boy girl issues like pregancy, EEO complaints, sexual harrassment, fraternization, prostitution, venereal disease, maternity issues, and the fact that woman perform poorly in traditional male roles, it is a net negative on combat effectiveness...I've been to Headquarters units where all these issues come for adjudication.  It is a joke...Gays will be a whole new dimesion on an already sexually over-stimulated military...

Maj USMC ret