1

 Obama did the best thing to give us a chance for a good outcome in Afghanistan.

Oh! For a moment there I thought you were going to say he had resigned and hurled himself head first into the nearest Porta-Potty.

2 not to take away from this serious stuff, but there is a professional tennis match that is almost in its 10th hour

3 The very same General 'Betray Us' who made us lose in Iraq?  Why would B+rry go with a proven loser?

4 Gen McChrystal has just been named the CENTCOM Commander.

5 Unless we specifically, directly, and unambiquously get rid of this bullshit half assed withdrawal date, nothing else we do will matter.

6 I was speaking to a friend of mine who is an Admiral and he told me Petraeus should be careful because this looks like it could be a trap

7 heh. That tennis match is now at 55 games apiece.

8 Betrayus ad? Never heard of it.

9

Big Bucks, No Whammies!

Big Bucks, No Whammies!

Big Bucks, No Whammies!

...aaaaaand....

Stop!

10

7 heh. That tennis match is now at 55 games apiece.

Why can't tennis be more like soccer, where matches can end in a tie.  These boys should be enjoying their juice boxes by now.

11 That tennis game is nuts...those guys can't even chase the serves....

12 This almost guarantees that we'll stay in Afghanistan until at least 2012, as there's no way in Hell, that Obama's going to want Petraeus to be free to visit New Hampshire or Iowa in January 2012.

13 We're gonna need a bigger boat.

14 If Obama gives Petraeus the resources he needs then we have a good chance to succeed. If not, then the president is putting a lot of brave men in harms way for nothing.

15 This was probably the best we could hope for under the circumstances; the fact that it minimizes his political damage while (at least theoretically) maximizing our odds in Afghanistan are about as close as we'll see to win-win for the next couple of years. I'm seeing conflicting info here...did McC resign his command, or his commission? There's a big difference here; if it's just his command, he's still on something of a leash, but if it's his commission...

16 Doubling down on nothing much is still nothing much.

Last time Petraeus was sent in to play firefighter, he had a President who went All-In.

17

If Obama gives Petraeus the resources he needs then we have a good chance to succeed. If not, then the president is putting a lot of brave men in harms way for nothing Political Posture.

_{...and fixed!}

18

Petraeus would most likely react in the same way, because it is his duty.

The real problem is Obama, because he is a disaster as President. The man is as incompetent at being President as anyone could possibly be.

Karzai shows Obama-esque qualities with his lack of leadership and corruption.

Get rid of Obama and Karzai and we can win the thing.

Until we win, the important thing is to kill as many Taliban as possible. At somer point, they will run out of Talibanes.

 

19 On the other hand he's saying right now, with a lot of credibility, "I need to win this and I'm giving us the best shot with the one guy the majority of the nation will rally around who get their news from the MFM has heard of".

Also, I get that any President would have to fire any general with this big a storm circling his head, but it really shouldn't be lost that the Obama/Biden team is a pretty special kind of incompetent to engender the sorts of feelings voiced in the article.  Dumblberry and Holbrook need the ax too, or there's no hope for the effort.

Even if *people* don't get all that, I certainly hope folks recognize that Obama's motivation was his primary concern of silencing criticism.  Petraeus just happens to be the biggest bandaid.  Oh and that bit about him being intimidated by the military really needs to be in a 2012 ad.

20

This is a bitter victory for the left. While they did get McChrystal's head, they lost on Obama's long term comitment to afghanistan.

 

21 Obama really had no choice politically but to accept McChrystal's resignation.  I understand there were people on the Left willing to spin it for him that it would have taken big, manly-man balls to let McChrystal stay, but everyone would have understood that letting him get away with perceived insubordination would have erased what little credibility Obama has on matters of national security.

That said, selecting Petraeus is not politically safe.  Obama has a well-documented record of declaring that Petraeus was incapable of designing, much less executing, a strategy for victory in Iraq.  The one thing that would go a long way to mitigating this problem for Obama is the one thing he cannot do: give a major address to the American people saying, "I admit that I was wrong about the surge in Iraq, and that's why I now have complete confidence that Gen. Petraeus can create the conditions in Afghanistan that will lead to the same kind of victory there that he helped the US achieve in Iraq."

22 Yeah, but he thinks he is still playing at the $2 table.

23

Replica Government?

How very, very accurate.

24 Dumblberry and Holbrook need the ax too, or there's no hope for the effort.

Posted by: Barry the Magnificent at June 23, 2010 03:49 PM (Xsi7M)

Obama should make the counter-intuitive and bold move of appointing McChrystal to replace Eikenberry as ambassador to Afghanistan.

25 Ack, sockpuppet!

26

No matter what...good luck to the General, the men and women he now directly commands and yes, the President of the United States.

Yes, yes and yes.

27 Maybe we can send some Lace Wig Hunters into the 'Stan under a new ROE. I mean between the Lace Wig Hunters and a crack team of commandos lead by Brian Dennehey, how could we possibly lose?

28

Until we win, the important thing is to kill as many Taliban as possible. At somer point, they will run out of Talibanes.

Posted by: Harry at June 23, 2010 03:49 PM (8Qhyl)

Kill all you want.  We'll make more.

29 Don't fool yourselves, if McChrystal didn't get what he needed, and he was Obama's pick to do the job, why would 'Betray-us' get anything better?

30 Don't fool yourselves, if McChrystal didn't get what he needed, and he was Obama's pick to do the job, why would 'Betray-us' get anything better?

Posted by: Gaff at June 23, 2010 03:52 PM (jDWYv)

Because the whole thing is public now and Obama's hand has been forced.

31 ...and yes, the President of the United States. ** SPIT **

32 You know who Obama really needs to appoint?  An man who, at great personal risk, is willing to go to the very ends of the earth to see that justice is done... Some one who's tanned, ready, and rested.

And free to take the job!

33 Who's going to force Obama's hand in doing anything beyond putting Petraeus in charge? Congress? The media? Rolling Stone?

I'm going to hold my breath on this one, especially if the ROE don't change.

34

Because the whole thing is public now and Obama's hand has been forced.

Posted by: stuiec at June 23, 2010 03:55 PM

Keep telling yourself that.  I am skeptical.

35 Can I file this in my (very thin) folder of "things Obama has done right?"

36 Because the whole thing is public now and Obama's hand has been forced.

Exactly.  I now require 100k more troops and 17 nuclear bombs.  Thanks.

37 anyone thinking that Pres'ent  Toonces is doing, or will do, anything with the best interests of this country is a damned naive fool.

38 ...and yes, the President of the United States.

** SPIT **

Posted by: Fresh Air at June 23, 2010 03:56 PM (8McwA)

"Rebbe, Rebbe, is there a blessing for the President?"

"A blessing for the President?  Let me think.... Ah, yes. 'May God bless and keep the President -- on the golf course, where he can't do any damage!'"

39 25 I don't believe his ego or his base would allow it (witness the comments Jane found at Kos) -- plus it might actually pull a win out of this, which I don't believe he or his fellow travellers actually want.

40 Barry was forced to appoint the one guy he can not get away with bullying or undermining in public. Considering General Petraeus is probably the most competent person, whom's trusted by the public, to run the war in Afghanistan, it's going to make it very difficult for Barry to pull the same shit he did on McChrystal. This is probably a net win for the US, but a big political black eye for teh won.

41

Wow... many of you don't get this...

McChrystal WORKED for Patreus... Patreus was already IN Command of Afganistan, thorough McChrystal.

Now, they fired the mid level manager, and the Boss, who is already so busy that he is not taking care of himself, is being told to do that job as well.. via remote control.

Expect another General to be put up for the Afgan Command very soon... this just happened so fast that they did not have a replacment for McChrystal selected.

42 #31  Because the whole thing is public now and Obama's hand has been forced.

The oil spill has been public for weeks now and that hasn't forced Obama's hand into getting the feds to be useful in plugging the damn hole.

I'm worried that once Petraeus accepts this new assignment, Barry's going to shortchange and go half-assed on the General's requests for troops and supplies.

43

I'm convinced that when President Christie takes office, he'll command all our troops to take off and nuke the site from orbit using one of those Jimmah Cartah nukes that only takes a few years for the radiation to dissipate.

Then we can move in and start mining that place until there's just a big, country-sized hole where the Muzzies used to be.

We can use the lithium.

44

_{Replica Government?}

More like Misrepresentative Dimocracy?

45 To clarify, he took the best move for his own interests. That it isn't an absolutely abominable move for the rest of us is, granted, Sheer Dumb Luck, but sometimes you get lucky with that. Now mind you, he won't get nearly what he needs to pull this off. O's head just isn't in it for that. But it's not nearly as bad as it could be (yet).

46 I'm worried that once Petraeus accepts this new assignment, Barry's going to shortchange and go half-assed on the General's requests for troops and supplies.

Posted by: Kratos (missing from the side of Mt Olympus)

Oh, we are on it, Mr. Preznit.

47 Bureau of Bullshitocracy.

48 A) Honestly I have a hard to believe keeping Petraeus out of the 2012 contest didn't occur to someone in this Administration. B) I have no doubt that Petraeus will do his best C) I hope to hell that if Afghanistan fails because of lack of support from above, that Petraeus resigns his commission and starts talking to the public (in that order, a serving general CANNOT do what McChrystal did).

49 Because the whole thing is public now and Obama's hand has been forced. Unlikely. Obama has just punted to let the clock run until next July. He then calls a pullback, based on results to date. COIN will undoubtedly work, but in the hellhole that is Afghanistan it will be a 'long war.' COIN is, fundamentally, information based. Iraq is a more modern country, the populace is more open to outside news and information, digital communications. It will take years to secure and build the trust in Afghanistan.

50 Ministry of Misinformation.

51 ^{"I'm convinced that when President Christie takes office, he'll command all our troops to take off and nuke the site from orbit using one of those Jimmah Cartah nukes that only takes a few years for the radiation to dissipate.}

^{Then we can move in and start mining that place until there's just a big, country-sized hole where the Muzzies used to be.}

^{We can use the lithium."}

China will have mined the ever living shit out of the radioactive ruins of Afghanistan long before any US based companies would even attempt to make entry due to the radiological safety concerns.

52 Because the whole thing is public now and Obama's hand has been forced.

LOL, Obama has shown nothing but utter disdain for the public. Why should this be any different? Hell, the "public" was the first to go under the bus.

53 There still seems to be a bit of Divine help going on here; Obamao's plans keep FAILING.  Hope that's not about to run out...

54 42  Oh, I get it; believe me.  The question is: who will get the post?  The logistics of having Petraeus in both slots is problematic imho.  And I believe Barry is doing this because Petraeus is popular, thus Barry thinks he can perhaps get some political creds for this (plus if things go bad he can skewer Petraeus -- I do not doubt for one minute that isn't in the back of Barry's mind; everything is about re-election and being the one with this person).

55 I don't believe his ego or his base would allow it (witness the comments Jane found at Kos) -- plus it might actually pull a win out of this, which I don't believe he or his fellow travellers actually want.

Posted by: unknown jane at June 23, 2010 03:58 PM (5/yRG)

Can you point me to a link to the DailyKos comments?  (I hate to wallow around in that site to search for them.)

It would be nice to think that at this point, Obama would be willing to stand up to his base in the name of success (if not "victory") in Afghanistan, especially since success in Afghanistan is essential to US national security (we need success there in order to have leverage in Pakistan).  Nice, but unfortunately not necessarily realistic.

56 BackwardsBoy -- if there is a way to mine lithium so that it contaminates the water supply and the poppy crops fail?

57 That jugeared fool shoudn't be allowed anywhere near anyone wearing the uniform.He's a disgrace and could care less about our troops.He's more concerned about giving Mexicans (illegal) Amnesty for a voting block.It's a shame our troops are now fighting and dying while this POS is in office.

58 Matt Damon!!

59 Why doesn't anyone ask me? I've got operational experience in liquidating religious fanatics who are perceived to be a threat. I'd like to try it on foreign soil sometime

60 Patraeus - love the guy! Can't wait to tell him how much I support him!

61 56 You would have to ask Jane D'oh -- this Jane is in no mood to wallow through that sty at this present time -- she posted some of the comments she saw over there on the previous McC/Pat thread.

62  I am proud to make the announcement that I have chosen General Petraeus to head up the command to cap the Gulf Gusher.  Excuse me, I mean to head the mission in Iraq... Wait a minute I mean Afghanistan. God damn it, put the right shit on my teleprompter Emanual..... You guys are incompetent idiots.......

63 Because the whole thing is public now and Obama's hand has been forced.

Let me know when he actually gives a shit about that

64

RE: Wimbledon

No tie breaks in the fifth set at Wimbledon. Wonder if they might rethink that after this match.

65 Because the whole thing is public now and Obama's hand has been forced.

LOL, Obama has shown nothing but utter disdain for the public. Why should this be any different? Hell, the "public" was the first to go under the bus.

Posted by: Vic at June 23, 2010 04:04 PM (6taRI)

Not "THE public."  Public, as in, it's now not possible for him to pretend to Congress, our allies or any other people of influence that the military is just peachy-keen with his policies.  The next time he tries to pull a three-month "policy review" or give Petraeus 75% of the minimum the general says is necessary for success, only the looniest of the moonbats will have the gall to defend him.

And I have to believe that he's so addicted to the perks of office that he really, REALLY wants to be re-elected.

66

60 Why doesn't anyone ask me? I've got operational experience in liquidating religious fanatics who are perceived to be a threat. I'd like to try it on foreign soil sometime

*ahem*

67

Very Interesting.............

Pelosi asks for donations to fend off potential GOP investigations

Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) is asking supporters for contributions to help prevent the "subpoenas and investigations" that would result from a GOP majority.    In a fundraising letter for the Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee, Pelosi says if Republicans take back the House, they'll initiate "endless investigations against President Obama" and "bring back the days of Ken Starr and the politics of personal destruction."  "Remember a Republican-controlled Congress that devoted more time to subpoenas and investigations than to solving our country's problems?" Pelosi asks. "There is far too much at stake for our country now to allow it to happen again."   Rep. Darrell Issa (R-Calif.), the ranking member of the House Government Reform and Oversight Committee, has shown himself willing and eager to be a thorn in the side of the Obama administration on everything from the BP oil spill to the Joe Sestak job offer.

68

Until we win, the important thing is to kill as many Taliban as possible. At somer point, they will run out of Talibanes.

 Posted by: Harry at June 23, 2010 03:49 PM (8Qhyl)

Yeah, I had that theory about the Viet Cong.

69

Jean, I was envisioning both being pretty much gone after the second or third mushroom cloud.

But I'm glad to see that you're detail-oriented. We'll need that when it comes to the mass deportation of the progressive pukes under the Christie administration. They've been pissing and moaning that America is so bad for so long, they should welome the relocation to a country more to their liking.

Like Cuba or Veneuzuela.

70 66 Never underestimate teh power of the moonbats...or the lack of awareness of great segments of our public. 

71 Obama/Biden 2012!

72 LOL, Obama has shown nothing but utter disdain for the public. Why should this be any different? Hell, the "public" was the first to go under the bus.
 
Since this is all public now:
Intentionally fucking up logistics and undermining the chain of command during a war sounds like gross dereliction of duty as the Commander in Chief to me. Probably warrants impeachment by an angry public acting through Congress no?

Even with the MFM giving the guy a leg to stand on, there's not fucking way following November that congress and the rapidly declining public opinion of the guy is going to allow Barry to get away with massive stunts. This is on par with if Bush invading Syria/Pakistan following the 2006 elections, you know damn well what would have resulted if that happened, impeachment.

73 MEDIBOT!

74

The interesting fact about Vietnam is General Giap stated that the US desimated the North Vietnese Communists and they were ready to call quits. But then the Americans went home..........He was confused, they won the war but just left....

75

Flashback: Obama dodges vote condemning moveon.org Betrayus ad.

Obama voted for the Democratic alternative offered by Sen. Barbara Boxer (D-Calif.) reaffirming strong support for all men and women in the military and condemning attacks on the “honor, integrity and patriotism” of any individual who is serving or has served in the Armed Forces.

But he skipped the vote that came next. Sen. John Cornyn (R-Texas) offered a “sense of the Senate” resolution that Petraeus “deserves the full support of the Senate” and said the Senate “strongly condemns personal attacks” on his honor and integrity.

---------------------------------------

Obama managed to cast a vote on the other two amendments of the day, including an ‘aye’ for Sen. Russ Feingold’s amendment to start withdrawing troops within 90 days. But his campaign was insistent that he skipped his Rock Hill, S.C. event to do his work in the Senate.

76 Take this job and shove it, I ain't workin hear no mo.

77 50 Vince:

Agree - and that squares with what I've heard from folks who've been there.  Our strategy will work but will take years of effort and won't have alot of photo-op, feel-good moments.  Incremental progress will be the rule.  The opposition has to be taught that we aren't going to go away and that they might as well throw out the Ho Chi Minh / Osama playbook of beating us in the NYT rather than in the field.

Whether the American public has the stones (and whether enough grunts care to suck it up and keep targets painted on their chests) remains to be seen.  For once I'd like to see a COIN strategy that was allowed to play out over time rather than being aborted due to lack of political will.

78 Taking Hillary down a notch with Petraeus? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=41hvHYKmjQ8 Remember her words? "failed policy" "willing suspension of disbelief" "a hand unlikely to improve" Heh

79

Yeah, I had that theory about the Viet Cong.

Posted by: Zombie Lyndon B. Johnson at June 23, 2010 04:12 PM (QKKT0)

Funny how after Linebacker II decimated North Viet Nam, we got a Peace Treaty... there actualy was a short period of Peace... before North VN invaded the South again, and we would not support them so they fell.

So, yes, killing enough of them, doing enough damage, did win.  We didn't loose the war, we lost the Peace...

People seem to forget how that bit of history actualy occured.

80 36 Can I file this in my (very thin) folder of "things Obama has done right?"

Posted by: Mindy at June 23, 2010 03:57 PM (TMozG)

No. Even if that IS the right thing to do, it's an accident.

81 "Remember a Republican-controlled Congress that devoted more time to subpoenas and investigations than to solving our country's problems?" Pelosi asks.

ahem

82

General McChrystal is now an honest to goodness, genuine American hero, and here's why.  He said all the stuff that just about every trooper wanted to say but couldn't.  He brought to the fore the reason WHY we aren't winning in Afganistan.  We have the best, brightest, best trained, bravest, best equipped force in the world, and we're being hamstrung by Obama, Karzai, and to a lesser extent, Hillary Clinton.  The troops couldn't say that, but the General could and did.  It got him fired, and that's also as it should be - he can't say that sort of thing in public.  In essence, he sacrificed himself for the troops.  And every one of them, and I, would follow General McChrystal straight to hell and out the other side, chasing the devil all the way.

The question is - will Obama take a lesson from what just happened?  Hell no he won't, because he's just to vain to think he might be wrong about something.  Will the press listen?  Will anyone look at this logically?  Nah, won't happen.

We will lose Afganistan and quite probably Iraq as well.  He will snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.  The sacrifice of our brave soldiers, airmen, sailors, and marines will go to waste.  So will the sacrifice of our latest hero, General McChrystal.

83 "Remember a Republican-controlled Congress that devoted more time to subpoenas and investigations than to solving our country's problems?

LOL, has pig-snout done anything other than investigations since the Dems took control?

84 Jameson is a jerk........

85 81 Good catch. Add that to the equation...

86 Don't fool yourselves, if McChrystal didn't get what he needed, and he was Obama's pick to do the job, why would 'Betray-us' get anything better?

Posted by: Gaff at June 23, 2010 03:52 PM (jDWYv)

Because the whole thing is public now and Obama's hand has been forced.

Posted by: stuiec

And this is different from any of Obama's other disasters, how?

 

Obama just put in place the guy that neither he, Pelosi, or Reid would support in a lousy Congressional resolution. And now Drew thinks that Obama is going to swim upstream and suddenly want to fight the conflict that started under Bush, led by a man that he vilified, who used in Iraq a strategem that he predicted would fail? Add to this the now conveniently forgotten sneer by Obama that our effort in Afghanistan consisted of 'bombing villages and stuff'. This will get him through the midterms while troops die in quiet, agreeable numbers, covered by MFM stories about Obama's 'bold new gamble'. He is counting upon the proffesionalism of Petraeus to carry him for another short term run. He'll then turn on him and/or Petraeus will retire. And then the Dems can do as Drew predicted; "we told you that this brutal afghan winter was just toomuch"!

87 And I have to believe that he's so addicted to the perks of office that he really, REALLY wants to be re-elected.

You really can't expect me to pay for my own round of golf, do you?

88 This is on par with if Bush invading Syria/Pakistan following the 2006 elections, you know damn well what would have resulted if that happened, impeachment.

There is a basic difference between Dems and Republicans. Republicans are always more than willing to eat their own.  There will never be a Dem impeached as long as Republicans do not have a 4/5 majority in both houses. Note the 4/5 is need to overcome RINOs like Arlen "Scottish law" Spector.

89

Prelude to an Isreali strike on Iran........

In the face of IranÂ’s race to obtain nuclear weapons, Israel strengthened its foothold in space Tuesday with the successful launch of a spy satellite, which defense officials said would provide the IDF with unprecedented operational capabilities.  Called Ofek 9, the satellite was launched at around 10 p.m. Tuesday from the Palmahim air base along the Mediterranean coast. It was placed in low orbit by an Israel Aerospace Industries-manufactured Shavit booster rocket of the same type used for the Ofek 7 satellite in 2007.

90 USA - Ghana Saturday afternoon to kick off the round of 16

91

This is pretty random, and somewhat petty, but who the fuck does Ed Morrisey think he's writing to ("effective and gracious" speech).  What the fuck?

Leave the ass kissing to MSNBC, dweeb.

92

Posted by: Wodeshed at June 23, 2010 04:14 PM (MFbfZ)

Tomorrow's post today?

When will then be now?

Soon.

93 89 Exactly what I'm thinking -- which leads me to also think the idiot is playing with fire.

94 Ed Morrisey, God love him, is just a very very nice guy. 

95 mike huckabee makes joke about palin snorting coke off a glass table because she didn't come out 100 percent against legalizing weed.

96 89 Blue:

Judging by actions and not by words, Barry seems to be concerned about not having "you lost Afghanistan" hung around his neck.  He's kept up the Predator program and put McC in, albeit with a feckless lack of troops.  I have no doubt that this was a political calculation, but this may be one occasion where political expediency and doing the right thing happened to sync.

If he just wanted to throw in the towel, he could have already done so.  Hell, George Will would agree with him, and judging from the comments here (not exactly a hotbed of pacifism) about 1/4 to 1/3 of our commenters might agree with him.

97 Let's see-70% of the public approves of the Arizona immigration law and it's pretty public what problems they are having in Arizona.  He doesn't care.  The Obama spending is pushing us into a place we might not recover from.  He doesn't care.  The oil leak isn't plugged.  He doesn't care and his Administration is blocking remediation efforts.  But you think he'll care about something he has shown no interest in for his entire Administration where no reporter will actually be there reporting the dirt and blood?  Guess what-he hates the military, at least our side's, and sympathizes with the folks killing them.

98

Prelude to an Isreali strike on Iran........

In the face of IranÂ’s race to obtain nuclear weapons, Israel strengthened its foothold in space Tuesday with the successful launch of a spy satellite, which defense officials said would provide the IDF with unprecedented operational capabilities.  Called Ofek 9, the satellite was launched at around 10 p.m. Tuesday from the Palmahim air base along the Mediterranean coast. It was placed in low orbit by an Israel Aerospace Industries-manufactured Shavit booster rocket of the same type used for the Ofek 7 satellite in 2007.

Jews in Space? Wasn't that part of Mel Brooks' History of the World?

99 92  Hmmm, an interesting thing to consider in light of who will now replace Petraeus, now that he has been reassigned?

100 On a completely unrelated note, the General Betrayus ad was pulled down from moveondotorg after being up for 3 years.

101

MEDIBOT!

102 Hoendooraz.

103 Play suspended due to darkness for second day after 10 total hours of play.

59 games each in the 5th set.

104 Fodder for tomorrow's Monty thread via Drudge:

Nearly 1,300 prison inmates wrongly received more than $9 million in tax credits for home-buyers despite being locked up when they claimed they bought a home, a government investigator reported Wednesday.

If the gov reported this then the problem is most likely 10 times worse.

105 98: 

He did ?  If so, Huckabee's bringing a butter-knife to a gunfight.  Careful what you wish for, Mike.

On the plus side, if he gets into a cage-match with the 'Cuda, she'll tear him up enough that any thought of him re-fucking up our primaries in 2012 with his single-issue sideshow will be scotched pronto.

106 There will never be a Dem impeached as long as Republicans do not have a 4/5 majority in both houses. Note the 4/5 is need to overcome RINOs like Arlen "Scottish law" Spector.

Yeah, Democrats always protect their own.

107 110, I feel your pain, bro.

108 89 Blue:

Judging by actions and not by words, Barry seems to be concerned about not having "you lost Afghanistan" hung around his neck.  He's kept up the Predator program and put McC in, albeit with a feckless lack of troops.  I have no doubt that this was a political calculation, but this may be one occasion where political expediency and doing the right thing happened to sync.

If he just wanted to throw in the towel, he could have already done so.  Hell, George Will would agree with him, and judging from the comments here (not exactly a hotbed of pacifism) about 1/4 to 1/3 of our commenters might agree with him.

Posted by: societyis2blame

 

I do agree that he dosne't want to be saddled as the one responsible for the loss.

You are conflating 'just wanted to' with 'I have the ability to do this at this very moment'. We need only look at all of the other promises broken to know that this jerk is amoral and beset with problems he cannot solve. He 'could have already' closed Guantonomo. Prison space exists in the US. Some nations are stupid enough to take some.  For all we know, he very much wants to cut and run, but he hasn't managed to solve the political equaion to the satisfaction of he and his merry band. Until that happens, troops will die. And that is what is prompting much of the comments to let them fight, or get them out.

109 "Not even King David could win in Afghanistan."

Joshua would kick ass in Afghanistan!

110 General Casey objects to replacing McChrystal with Petraeus.  He thinks diversity will be harmed, and that's the worst thing that can happen ...

111 "Not even King David could win in Afghanistan." I hate that attitude, there has never been anything worth winning in Afghanistan -- now with a trillion dollars in lithium under those blasted rocks, there is something worth winning. Which tribes/clans are on top of it and the routes out -- screw the rest.

112 "Not even King David could win in Afghanistan."

Joshua would kick ass in Afghanistan!
___
Hey, give me a chance

113 115 Hear, hear!

114

Holy crap... they DID Demote Patreus.

Wow... so now Patreus will have to work for someone else... probably someone Junior, who will take over his old job at CENTCOM?

Recipie for a disfunctional chain of command... and potentialy setting him (and us) up for failure.

 

115 OT: Heh heh, The National Enquiror is saying Al Gore sexually attacked a woman in a Portland Hotel and she saved the pants as evidence. Oh boy

116 Posted by: Rod Blagojevich at June 23, 2010 04:31 PM (Xsi7M)

The Dems didn't sink you Rod, it was the federal investigation that most likely started under Bush.

117 On the other hand he's saying right now, with a lot of credibility

Um, what?

118 *then Obama has to live with that.*

 Obama doesn't give a flying crap about anybody's opinion but his own.  Saying he has to "live with anything" is naivete on a grand scale. 

119 they DID Demote Patreus. How dare you run for President on my watch, I'll fix you ...

120 OT: Heh heh, The National Enquiror is saying Al Gore sexually attacked a woman in a Portland Hotel and she saved the pants as evidence. Oh boy

Posted by: robtr

here's your problems with this:

He wasn't insubordinate (to the right person that is)

he didn't apologize to BP

he recycles

 

try again when you have some real news.

121 Okay, I'm confused; the article on CNN seems to suggest that Petraeus is giving up his current job to take on McChrystal's job. Is Petraeus taking on another job or leaving his present job?

122 Someone with more computer talent than me needs to cook up a video of AlGore doing "Pants on the Ground."

123 "Not even King David [Salladin] could win in Afghanistan." 

-- The Precedent (after they changed eligibility requirements), Nobel Laureate (after they made the Peace Prize into a TOTAL joke), Precedent of the Harvard Law Review (after they changed eligibility requirements), noted Indonesian, ...

124

Obama has to live with that

 

He branded his grandmother a racist to get elected. He seems to be doing just dandy with that.

 

 

125 I beleive the General will be dual hatted: Aghan/CC and CENTCOM/CC.

126

General Casey objects to replacing McChrystal with Petraeus.  He thinks diversity will be harmed, and that's the worst thing that can happen ...

fantastic reference!!

 

Johnny tell him what he's won.

127 I just posted this today. *I* thought it was funny.

http://tinyurl.com/2vrcqoq

128 We must "Celebrate Diversity"....

129

No matter what...good luck to the General, the men and women he now directly commands and yes, the President of the United States.

Um, unless you're referring to a future POTOS, I see different ideas about what constitutes "luck."

130

How would you like to be a general in the military right now? Essentially Obama said, and everyone agrees, that there are only two generals competent enough to run a war. And one of them was just fired.

 

131

116 If I remember my history correctly Genghis did a pretty good job in Astan.

Can the good general ride a horse?  If so, would he be too squeamish (or some might say civilized) to ride it up a mountain of skulls?

132 I was speaking to a friend of mine who is an Admiral and he told me Petraeus should be careful because this looks like it could be a trap


I see what you did there.

133 POTUS, damn him.

134

Like everything Obama does, this is politically motivated.

By putting Petraeus on the line in A-stan, one of two things happen:

1) things go badly, and Petraeus takes enough blame that he is no longer a strong candidate for President

2) things go well, and Obama takes the credit

I'm not sure Petraeus has even the slightest interest in being POTUS, but I know the Obama crowd can't conceive of someone who polls well not running (principle? what?).  Without this move, Petraeus could have kept enough distance to avoid being tarred. 

135 <url=http://tinyurl.com/2vrcqoq>Test.</url>

136 138  And if he is being moved from CENTCOM is opens that position up for someone...more to our dear leader's tastes, now doesn't it?

137

Al Gore is

Pantless in Portland

138 Arggg.  Christie says he won't run for prez in 2012 on fox.

139 I am proud to announce that my wife Chewy I mean Michelle will be the new CENTCO/CC. General Betrayus I mean Petrious (Or however you spell it) will report to Chewbaca I mean General Michell starting today. Michelle is BIG ENOUGH to fill this position. She has got back I mean the brains and experience to take charge.

140 Try that again. http://tinyurl.com/2vrcqoq

Better, but I still need some practice at this.

141  Stop the presses. Christie on Cavuto.

142 Once you've got your tiny url copied to your clipboard, hit the "link of chain" icon at the top.  Right click and paste your clipboard contents in the "source" box at top right, then hit insert and okay.

Posted by: Wodeshed at June 23, 2010 04:54 PM (MFbfZ)

How do you get it to make a word into a link?

143

i often wonder where we would actually be in the war if the Dem's had honored our country, our men and women fighting.. backed  the efforts to stop extremism 7+ years ago. for it than against it.

of course , like Obama, their words are not meant to be taken seriously.

 

 

144 God bless them..Everyone of them...

145 since you guys are talking about this, do you paste your tiny url in the source box with the arrow or the one to the right?

146 And now Obama has 12 and 14 after hits. Ready to bust again......

147 The louder they are about not running, the more likely they are to suddenly discover a call to service. Hopefully that's Christie's motivation.

148 TallDave -- things go well and somebody leaks a few emails indicating the WH is an anchor not an asset. Petreaus never campaigns for President - but retires and is selected as VP. Petreaus savages Biden in VP debates.

149 Diogenes-- highlight the word you want to be the link before clicking the link icon.
Guy Fawkes--the box to the right, the drop-down will adjust itself.

150 It is not hard to savage Biden... My pet Chihuahua can do that right now...

151

Patreaus is going to have the same LOSING HAND that McChrystal had.

Why the fuck would he take the job?

 

152 Har!  Beck is going off on the flies that seem to be strangely attracted to The One.  And he just showed Podium Rat.

Carry on.

153 OT: Heh heh, The National Enquiror is saying Al Gore sexually attacked a woman in a Portland Hotel and she saved the pants as evidence. Oh boy No happy ending for you.

154

"A blessing for the President?  Let me think.... Ah, yes. 'May God bless and keep the President -- on the golf course, where he can't do any damage!'"

Posted by: stuiec at June 23, 2010 03:58 PM (W+GYq)

Have you seen him golf? I thought it was an old Jerry Lewis movie

155

"He's not going to take on a hopeless cause. He has to honestly believe this war can be won and that Obama and the people he will have to work with can do it."

Not so sure about this, Drew. Can a General simply say, "Thanks, but no thanks" to a sitting President? I know there would be some dialogue about the General not having any intention of taking on a hopeless cause, and Obama telling him "That goes without saying, you'll have control over resources, we're here to give you what you need, yada, yada". But in the end, my guess would be that it would be very hard for Petraeus to say no. In the end, even if he has some doubts about the mission, he might feel that it is a foregone conclusion, and better him running it for the good of the country and for his troops than having the buck passed down the line.

In any case, Godspeed to the General and his troops. When Obama does the right thing, I'm going to give him the benefit of the doubt and pretend that he made his decision was based on what he felt was the good of the country, and not based on pure political calculation.

 

 

 

156

Jean  -- That would be nice.  Let's hope that's how it works out, even though that probably leaves Obama in a fairly good position having won the war.

But I fear what will happen is that Petraeus won't be allowed to run things his way, like he was in Iraq, but will be too principled to complain about it publicly, and will then be blamed for the inevitable failure.

157

OK... so... CENTCOM owns the MidEast and Afgan/Pakistan...

So, it would be CENTCOM who must figure out what to do when Israel strikes Iran... and Iran hits back using Hezbolah...

Now, if Patreus is the Warrior we've been led to believe he is... could he stand by while the American Precedent told him to do nothing in that situation?

Could that be one of the reasons for that Demotion?  So some more "pliable" and more political General could be put in that soon to be Hot Seat?

158 Why the fuck would he take the job? Duty is most sublime word in the English language.

159 First, this is a manufactured event- WH knew the article was coming b/f the press did. They had time to lay the groundwork, so this was done smoothly...just like a campaign event. We know government does not move this fast. Astan was Obama's war, remember he attacked Bush for paying attention to the wrong country. But Atsan has little value, is hard to get to and ultimately is an ungovernable province of Pstan. Really think we should cut our losses and focus on countries where we can make a difference.

160 It was a longshot anyway, but I can't help thinking that Obama's main goal here was to take the general out of the running for 2012.

161 Petraus doesn't have a choice, unless he'd like to join his buddy McC on the book tour....

162

Keep in mind, from all indications we're still going to have these high-level Obama stooges running around A-stan screwing things up.  I don't think Petraeus will resign no matter how much they muck it up.

Poor guy.  I just hope he starts eating all his meals.

163 I hope Gabe gave you permission to make all these posts today, Drew.

164 112:

FTR, I'm on the "let them fight" side of that.  If the RoE's don't change significantly, we won't keep public or troop support, and I'd join with the "get the hell out" side.  I support Petraeus, not WeeWee, on this, and if he's not given the discretion to fight his way, then hang this albatross on Obama and get the hell out.

165 Drew is probably right about Obama having to back victory in Afghanistan but I don't see that it's certain.  After pushing through health care, the drilling moratorium and now entertaining the idea of executive branch amnesty I wouldn't rule out Obama taking the political hit with moderate voters to placate his base, and even more importantly advance his ideology.  The political consequences of cutting off Petraeus on the eve of victory would be severe, but there's a chance Obama might pay them to indulge his attitude toward American power.

166 testing.

"fat finger" goes crazy again today.

167 I am absolutely stunned that so few view this whole affair politically.  Obama hasn't a military bone in his body; he is a Chicago pol fercrissakes!  McChrystal's bone-head decision to be interviewed by Rolling Stone provided Obama with a perfect political opportunity: fire the guy who couldn't win Afghanistan for him, and replace him with a potential Republican 2012 challenger who will likewise be doomed in Afghanistan.  Obama can't lose: he placates his base (bug out in 2011 as promised) while blaming the darlings of the Republicans McChrystal/Petraeus for the failing ("Afghanistan was lost by the the architects of the failed Iraq surge blah blah blah...").  If I were of a conspiratorial frame of mind, I would suspect that Obama encouraged the Rolling Stone interview, hoping for just such an opportunity.  Hmmm.      

168 Whoohoo.  thanks Heather.

169 Wimbledon, 5th set, Isner-Mahut:

51-50 games

170 Look at all the budding IT administrators on this site! Keeping the smart in smart military blog! bravo!

171
5 minutes ago - the left called Petraeus "Betray Us" .

Oh yeah - the silly left.  They only won the house, senate and presidency.
So glad the clown car left are in charge.

172 jpowell,

I think Petraeus could very well resign if the same crap from Obama's group of morons continues, which would be a disaster for Obama.

We'll see, but I don't think this was so politically expedient except it was one of the few ways out of this mess for Obama.

173 168/176:

Has Petraeus ever made any noise about political ambitions ?  I'm not sure he's even interested in a POTUS run, and I'm not sure I'd be on board with it.  The track record for even war-proven generals in the White House isn't exactly distinguished (with the exception of Washington and arguably Jackson).

174 they called that tennis match for darkness...59 - 59...resume tomorrow.

175 they called that tennis match for darkness...59 - 59...resume tomorrow.

Posted by: Guy Fawkes at June 23, 2010 05:29 PM (T0bhq)

I'm watching tape?  What jerks.

176 Bambi scores a Two-Fer

-- Fires the general who is winning the hearts & minds in A-stan

-- Demotes the general who won in Iraq and used to be responsible for the whole area



At what point does B Hussein Obama's active support of terrorism in Gaza, the West Bank, Iraq, Iran & A-stan become criminal activity?

177 If Petraeus is running in 2012, this is an interesting move.

If he wins, *he* is the man who won two wars - not Bush or Obama.

If he loses, and Obama gives him anything less then 100% of what Petraeus asks for, Petraeus can run against the guy that stopped him from winning two wars.

On the other hand, if Obama loses Afghanistan, he is going to cement his image as a failure at everything - community organizing, the economy, the war, diplomacy, etc, so I guess Obama does need a man that can win the war for him.

So oddly, the play that makes the most sense for Obama is to give Petraeus everything he wants and tells his base to bug off.

178 ME-DI-BOT!

179 Ed Morrisey is a horsefuck of an idiot, seriously, take this nice guy routine and shove it up your fucking ass you dimbulbed shit monkey.  Jesus.

180 What evidence do we have that Petreus would be interested in the presidency?

181

I'm watching tape?  What jerks.

Posted by: progressoverpeace at June 23, 2010 05:31 PM (Qp4DT)

hell i thought i was watching it also........ still good tho.

 

182

165  Beat you to it.  It's a big question mark imho.

 

183 So not only is the CENTCOM commander demoted, he has to work more closely with Hillary "willing suspension of disbelief" Rodham (sometimes) Clinton. Great.

184 190 We don't, and no I don't think he is.

185 186:  Petraeus would seem to have an interesting hand to play, granted, but once again does he have any interest ?  I also wonder if  he's politically savvy - most high-rank officers have some political chops but not every one is cut out to be an actual politician. 

I'd consider him, particularly when the only people in discussion are Romney, Palin, Gingrich, none of whom I'm down with, Ryan's said he won't run and Christie's never even considered it to my knowledge.  Does anyone actually know anything about how he'd play as a politician or if he even wants to ? 

Given that McChrystal says he voted for Obama and Colin Powell did as well, I'm not sure wearing the uniform necessarily means they're on my side nowadays once you get to the high officer ranks.

186

195  I don't think the military is on anybody's side -- except for the country and themselves.  The military has learned some bitter lessons since Vietnam, even Korea, concerning political affiliations.  I would wager that hardly any of them are "for" either political party, or "for" any ideology other than which one of each stays the most out of their hair.

At least that has been my experience.

187

Whoa! I just realized, for the umpteenth time, that an anti-American dickbag is the Commander-in-Chief.

Of our proud, heroic men and women who serve.

And the leader (?) of the free world.

Thankfully, I have fifth of Jack on ice, otherwise I might question reality.

Cheers!

 

 

188 Back in my service days if you were caught with a copy of Rolling Stone in your footlocker you were branded as a limp wrist dope smoking hippie,now generals are giving interviews in the damn thing.We've come a long ways,I guess

189 198  Which makes me believe that this was a calculated move -- can't really see a general (or even an noncome) just giving an interview, unguarded in nature, to the RS.

190 190 What evidence do we have that Petreus would be interested in the presidency?

None.  He's an effective commander but that might not translate into being a good Commander-in-Chief. 

Maybe President Palin or President Christie would make him the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff

191

Given that McChrystal says he voted for Obama and Colin Powell did as well,

Powell was dumb enough to let race trump politics.  McChrystal I have no idea.  Maybe he was naive enough to believe that Obama was actually serious about fighting in Afghanistan?  Seems that both have decided they made a mistake with their votes.  Say what you want about their political awareness, they apparently are capable of admitting mistakes.

192 @198 bulwark:  McChrystal picked those lice-ridden heroin addicts for a reason:  The MFM reads it, and so do other live-ridden heroin addicts.  In other words, he affirmatively reached the audience who needs to hear the president's shortcomings the most.

193 Odumbass thinking about price controls for heath insurance.  I am sure that will work since it has never worked before.

Some may say its dumb economics, I say its to purposely put health insurance companies out of business.

194 Wouldn't it be kinda cool if McCrystal decided to become a Republican and run against one of Obie's pet congress critters? 

195

Guy Fawkes has it partly right:  This is a feature, not a bug, of price controls:  it casus shortages.

196 157 147

Here's a tutorial.  I haven't bothered to learn it.

http://bit.ly/PkKkJ

Posted by: Wodeshed at June 23, 2010 05:01 PM (MFbfZ)

thanks man.........  i think i have it now.

197

Wouldn't it be kinda cool if McCrystal decided to become a Republican and run against one of Obie's pet congress critters? 

McCrystal voted for Obama. My Trust-O-Meter is bottomed out.

198

Boy have conservatives ever been sucked on this one.

Sure, the Moron is just doing his best to give us a victory in Afghanistan.  What a peach he is!!

There are some high fives in the White House tonight.  Wingnut duffus's stepped in this shit with both feet.  Jerk a general around and it's like Pavlov's dogs in heat.

It's so obvious it's not even funny.

Petraeus has been taken out as a threat for 2012, and setup to take the fall for Afghanistan.  Bye bye 70% approval ratings for him.  He'll get to dangle in the wind for a couple of years though.

There is 0, repeat ZERO chance of winning in Afghistan with the boy king sitting in public housing in Washington.  We could have 150,000 Petraeus'es and McChrystal's and it wouldn't matter.  You cannot win a war when the CIC doesn't want to win.  Can't happen.  Will never happen.

And btw, did ya notice how the man who dithered for 7 months over a strategy absolutely SNAPPED into action to can the man in charge of the strategy.  He pulled it all off in about 36 hours.  What a whirlwind.  Either that, or the little charade has been planned for a long time.

I'm not going with the whirlwind theory.

 

 

199 cool new drinking song i heard the other day.

200

"Jerk a general around and it's like Pavlov's dogs in heat."

Ring my beeee-eeeee-eeeeellll,
Ring my bell.

201 Petraeus is a political adversary of Obama's. The people advising Obama see everything through a political lense. The troops are pawns. I think Obama and his regime did this to give Petraeus a political black eye. Afghanistan is unwinnable.

202

You cannot win a war when the CIC doesn't want to win. 

Word.

203

Petraeus has been taken out as a threat for 2012


That assumes Petraeus would be a Republican. 

I do not believe that assumption is guaranteed to be correct.  I recall some comments he made a few years earlier that seemed to call his politics into question for the Right. If Petraeus is not conservative, then Petraeus is not a political threat.

Obama has nothing to fear on his right in the 2012 primaries.  His base is getting disillusioned, and they're not going to be flocking to the General in 2 years.  After all, they are the ones who paid for the "Gen. Betrayus" ad. 

That said, Petraeus is a strategically-minded fellow, I believe.  He wouldn't accept the offer unless he had an ace in the hole or two when it comes to either timetables or resources.

204 196 Jane:

That held true when the Dems weren't so stridently anti-military and there were still legitimate pro-military Dems in the important positions, but now that they've been wholly captured by the hard Left anti-American, anti-military wing of their party, any military man who votes Democrat isn't looking out for his own interests or those of his troops.  The rank-and-file and lower-ranking officers vote for the Right about 7 to 1 or better right now. 

205 Obama's General has to be sacked....Bush's General has to return to clean up the Kenyan's mess.

Sweet for us, and even sweeter for our troops.

206

A person I know said to me last night that McChrystal has a history of running his mouth.  Does anyone have any evidence supporting this?  I can't think of a time that he has run his mouth.

207 201 Buzz:

I'd assume McC knows he made a mistake (still no proof he'd admit it, but I gotta think so), but I've never seen anything on Powell admitting it was a mistake.

I still think that any military man or woman from grunt to 5 star that has voted for the Democrats since Clinton's first term in office is cutting their own throat and doing a disservice to any troops under their command, and the Dems track record since that time bears me out.

208 McChristal did this deliberately.

He knew this was shaping up to be a debacle with the current RoE, so he deliberately fell on his sword.

His replacement and Obambi get to take the blame for the loss.

209 A person I know said to me last night that McChrystal has a history of running his mouth.  Does anyone have any evidence supporting this?  I can't think of a time that he has run his mouth.

They're probably referring to this

210 216 Truman:

He let some leaks out around the time he was pushing for more troops and given the loose lips of his subordinates with an RS reporter present, I'd give anyone making that claim the benefit of the doubt.   Most of even the lowest-rank servicemen I see here in San Diego (mostly Navy and Marines) are pretty down-low about openly criticizing Bambi because their commanders seem to take that shit seriously.  If McC's staff was so la-di-da about "Bite Me" comments, etc... I've gotta think that attitude came from the top.

211 When this President speaks, I feel we are being slain with the jawbone of an ass.

212 God bless them..Everyone of them...
Posted by: Bob Crachet

Fuck that noise.

213 This thread needs to be replaced.

214 Say, anyone that has read the article: What did McChrystal say that got him fired?

215 @219:  No chance he's running for office!

216

I thought Petraeus was made of the same stuff as McChrystal.

WTF is going on? Why is he in charge?

I don't trust a single fucking thing that comes out of Obama's mouth, why should I trust Petraeus?

217

Posted by: societyis2blame at June 23, 2010 06:23 PM (7ZyYf)

I thought there was something last year about him not being happy with Obama anymore.  A quick search though shows more recent things saying he has no regrets, so I'll stand corrected.

218 Interesting interview the the guy that wrote the RS article. He was interviewed by Al Jazeera English (I know...I know). Actually, he's not very complimentary toward Toonces.

snip~

Hastings was asked if McChrystal had perhaps gotten the whole strategy wrong, but Hastings explained it was the President that didn't know what he was really getting into.

"I think that ship had sailed last year," Hastings said. "I think once the decision was made to do a counterinsurgency strategy, they had a pretty clear idea in mind what they wanted to do and I think this is quite interesting. I think this is one of the issues Obama didn't really understand what counter-insurgency meant and when the military said they wanted to do a counterinsurgency strategy that that actually meant 150,000 troops. Obama thought he could get away with just sending 21,000 over and getting a new general."

http://tinyurl.com/329gqyr

Link goes to Newsbusters

219 he's not BetrayUs" anymore http://voices.washingtonpost.com/fact-checker/2007/09/general_betray_us.html Bwahahahahahahahahahaha roflmao

220 Michael Savage just said that Obama traded the fighter for the fainter. I report, you decide.

221 I'd like to see the mission statement on the War in Afghanistan.
Do issues like not disturbing the local muslims rank higher than killing the Taliban?
How does Courageous Restraint Medals and killing the enemy not end up being a whole lot of cognitive dissonance?
Going on patrols with no rounds chambered and no engaging the enemy because you can't see his weapon? What about enemy mortars?
This does not seem to be set up for victory, but to not make the muslims angry.
Neither of which seem a likely outcome.

222

Let me see. Paratrooper who led the 82nd Abn.  Ranger officer who led the 75th Ranger Rgt. Special Forces (Green Berets). I could go on and on.

He gets fired by a narcissistic president who could not even run a local Micky D's as a night manager?  Since I do not live in NYC, I am not worried.  You get what you pay for.

 

 

223 232

Let me see. Paratrooper who led the 82nd Abn.  Ranger officer who led the 75th Ranger Rgt. Special Forces (Green Berets). I could go on and on.

He gets fired by a narcissistic president who could not even run a local Micky D's as a night manager?  Since I do not live in NYC, I am not worried.  You get what you pay for.Posted by: Hous Bin Pharteen at June 23, 2010 06:43 PM (4yHLd)

We don't get it.

224 Honestly I'd feel more confident if the fly that landed on Obama's face yesterday was calling the shots rather than the boy king

225 Reporter shouts a question to Obama as he's leaving the Rose Garden podium: "Can the war [in Afghanistan] be won?"

Obama just keeps on walking.

226 How long till Obama starts saying that he inherited General Patreaus?

227 testing.
"fat finger" goes crazy again today.
I'm not hitting that link until someone assures me it doesn't involve Rosie O'Donnell and Rachel Maddow.

228

Honestly I'd feel more confident if the fly that landed on Obama's face yesterday was calling the shots rather than the boy king

Flies can't hold public office cuz their not human. Duh!

229 Kratos at 200

None.  He's an effective commander but that might not translate into being a good Commander-in-Chief. 

Maybe President Palin or President Christie would make him the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff

I see him as a VP balancing out an economic/jobs President in 2012 - Pence, etc.

230

Great and popular NYC song!  Glowing in the Wind! http://tinyurl.com/5opol5

231

Zo, Prezident Obama believed zat zis contretempz vis Herr General McCryztal voold give him an opportunity to adminishter zum Ass-gekikken, BUT! it voold zeem zat zis coold turn out zat Prezident Obama may be zettink himzelf up to haf his owwwn Azz-gekikked in 2012!!!

 

232

So, if Obama's ROE's are bullshit, why would a General accept command?

Or am I wrong?

233 The leftist libs always hated the military.  I saw it first hand in the university I went to.  They HATED us.  From students to numbskull profs.

234

They think the Cuban missile crises was bad? Hehehe!!

You aint seen nothing yet.  Iran, North Korea, AlQ and other muslim terrorists see what he really is.  They are not stupid.

235

You aint seen nothing yet.  Iran, North Korea, AlQ and other muslim terrorists see what he really is.  They are not stupid.

Posted by: Hous Bin Pharteen at June 23, 2010 06:58 PM (4yHLd)

Can you conceive of ANY circumstances in which Barack Obama would have the backbone to order a nuclear strike?  (Other than to retaliate against Israel for attacking Iran, I mean.)

236 How is any of this good?

It's not. It's the exact opposite of good.

237 The leftist libs always hated the military.  I saw it first hand in the university I went to.  They HATED us.  From students to numbskull profs.

Posted by: Hous Bin Pharteen at June 23, 2010 06:55 PM (4yHLd)

Do you want to know why?

It's because your existence, the mere fact that soldiers have to kill people to protect their countrymen, disproves the Leftist liberal belief that all people can be persuaded to live in peace and harmony.  If soldiers have to kill people to defend even the Leftist libs, then that means there are enemies who can't be negotiated with.  And in their magical way of thinking, if they can somehow eliminate the military, then that will make those enemies cease to exist (or at least cease to hate us and want to kill us).

238
Can you conceive of ANY circumstances in which Barack Obama would have the backbone to order a nuclear strike?

Posted by: stuiec at June 23, 2010 07:00 PM (W+GYq)

I am unable to envision any circumstance under which Obama would order a nuclear attack, to include the annihilation of a major US city. The lefts disdain for Harry Truman's heroic decision in WWII is legendary, and Obama would rather suffer a catastrophic loss of life and property without retribution than enter history as the second president to order a nuclear strike. 

Barack Obama is a spineless Marxist who would not protect his own country.  He must be removed for the good of America.

239
Sorry for the Al Gork sock.  Fuck Gork.

240 Hey nam grunt, if your around, you were incorrect about McChyristal. He did ONLY resign his command NOT his commission.

241
He did ONLY resign his command NOT his commission.

Posted by: nevergiveup at June 23, 2010 07:14 PM (U5btG)

Prediction:  General MacChrystal retires within 6 months.

242 It's because your existence, the mere fact that soldiers have to kill people to protect their countrymen, disproves the Leftist liberal belief that all people can be persuaded to live in peace and harmony. If soldiers have to kill people to defend even the Leftist libs, then that means there are enemies who can't be negotiated with. And in their magical way of thinking, if they can somehow eliminate the military, then that will make those enemies cease to exist (or at least cease to hate us and want to kill us). Posted by: stuiec at June 23, 2010 07:05 PM (W+GYq) The only place I have every felt uncomfortable in Uniform, very uncomfortable actually, was on the Campus of Columbia University.

243 Prediction: General MacChrystal retires within 6 months. Posted by: Fish at June 23, 2010 07:15 PM (v1gw3) Maybe, but he and I were at odds over that point this afternoon

244 Shep Smith just reported that the judge has energy stocks... what a fucktard

245 Shep Smith just reported that the judge has energy stocks... what a fucktard Posted by: Truman North at June 23, 2010 07:17 PM (FjC5u) Shep or the Judge. Here come da judge, Here come da judge

246 255 Shep Smith just reported that the judge has energy stocks... what a fucktard.

Somebody mentioned on an earlier thread that the judge had only 10 or 15K in energy stocks, but his salary as a federal judge is somewhere between 200-300k.

247 Sorry for the Al Gork sock. Never apologize for misplaced socks. NEVER!!

248 Shep, duh!

249 Shep Smith just reported that the judge has energy stocks... what a fucktard

Posted by: Truman North at June 23, 2010 07:17 PM (FjC5u)

In what form, a passively managed 401k with mutual funds that have energy holdings, or an actively managed brokerage account where he's swapping in and out depending on the days info?

250
There is a stark contrast between resigning a Commission and retirement.  Stanley MacChrystal was relieved of command in Afghanistan and ordered to CONUS for reassignment.  He remains a Commissioned Officer with the rank of General.  No reporting on his desire to retire.....yet.

251 There is a stark contrast between resigning a Commission and retirement. Stanley MacChrystal was relieved of command in Afghanistan and ordered to CONUS for reassignment. He remains a Commissioned Officer with the rank of General. No reporting on his desire to retire.....yet. Posted by: Fish at June 23, 2010 07:23 PM (v1gw3) Yeah I agree with you. Nam grunt thougth otherwise.

252
Shep Smith just reported that the judge has energy stocks...

Owning energy stocks is not a disqualifier any more than having a wife is a conflict to rule in a divorce case.

Owning BP would be grounds for recusal.

253 Shep Smith just reported that the judge has energy stocks
George Soros was the judge???

254

http://tinyurl.com/26apwre

No risk for the risk-averse... just click on it

255 Gallup waaay oversamples Democrats; come up with results acceptable to the Politburo

256 Obama could've played the prodigal son card: He ought to have said "We all get passionate about our causes, I'm no exception. I don't want a dispassionate general running that critical effort. Gen M said what he said, but the American people need his best effort right now, and we're all in this together. The general's apology was both appropriate and necessary, and it has been accepted. He will return to AFG to continue his efforts. He goes with my full confidence, and I hope he has yours as well." I'll say this, though: McChrystal's irresponsible permissiveness of a culture of disrespect among his immediate subordinates ought to have been broken, and unambiguously so. I don't like Obama. Didn't vote for him, have said here many times that he's breaking America, but I have a hard time balancing deploying myself this fall with tarring the guy--creates a cognitive dissonance that gets in the way of the mission.

257 The only place I have every felt uncomfortable in Uniform, very uncomfortable actually, was on the Campus of Columbia University.

Posted by: nevergiveup at June 23, 2010 07:15 PM

When I was on the staff at the SUNY Maritime College NROTCU, one of the Lieutenants was on a crusade to get Columbia affiliated with the unit, i.e. we would be putting Columbia kids on NROTC scholarships.  The CO was skeptical, and I don't think it went anywhere..thankfully.

Bad enough that we have a unit at George Washington University where we pay something like $50,000 a year and hope the officer larvae can shrug off continuous libtard indoctrination.  The Columbia Academy of Urban Marxism?  No thanks.

258 We'll get to the bottom of this.

259 O/T: Al Gore Implicated in Sexual Assault
(and no, it's not sex with polar bears)
via Instapundit

260 When I was on the staff at the SUNY Maritime College Posted by: A Balrog of Morgoth at June 23, 2010 07:46 PM (ZESU0) Ya SUNY Maritime College's cafeteria is about the only place that ruin chicken.

261 262 What's the difference between Presuhdint Obamuh and a big, greasy dog turd?

I dunno either.

I actually laughed out loud at this one!

262 "...we're still going to have these high-level Obama stooges running around A-stan screwing things up."

Mr. Tall Dave, please consider this a cease and desist notice from our clients, Mssrs. Howard, Fine and Howard.  They wish to inform you that they have worked tirelessly to give stooges a good name and they will not tolerate your sullying of that good name by comparing stooges to the running mongolian cluster-fuck that is the Jugears Administration.

Thank you.
 

263 Ya SUNY Maritime College's cafeteria is about the only place that ruin chicken.

Posted by: nevergiveup at June 23, 2010 07:48 PM

It's probably better than you remember it.  The contractor failed a health inspection and got replaced a couple of years ago.

264 It's probably better than you remember it. The contractor failed a health inspection and got replaced a couple of years ago. Posted by: A Balrog of Morgoth at June 23, 2010 07:49 PM (ZESU0) I drill at the NOSC there alot and believe me it still stinks. But the views are great.

265 Ya SUNY Maritime College's cafeteria is about the only place that ruin chicken.

Ahem.

266 I did my Chief's initiation over there in 2004.  There are some....colorful....fellows over there.

267 Ya SUNY Maritime College's cafeteria is about the only place that ruin chicken. Ahem. Posted by: KFC at June 23, 2010 07:51 PM (554T5) Hey that new sandwich with the 2 pieces of chicken and the soggy bacon sucks also

268

248 Stuic  Do you want to know why?

That is only partial true.  They have no problem with what their ilk did in history, and do know.  How many Jews did Stalin kill? Remember the invasion of Poland?  The gulugs.  China, Cuba, etc.  They don't have any problem killing people that dont have their idea of what the world should be.

269 From the article Drew linked at the bottom of the post:

Of course Petraeus can do the job - but most COs would make great CHENGs should their present one be fired for cause - that doesn't mean the Commodore should make a CO the CHENG and then find a sister ship's XO to be the new CO.

True, though I've known some COs who would have best stayed CHENGs.

270 New NBC/WSJ poll: Americans Lose Confidence in U.S., Obama

Americans are more pessimistic about the state of the country and less confident in President Barack Obama's leadership than at any point since Mr. Obama entered the White House, according to a new Wall Street Journal/NBC News poll.
 
The survey also shows grave and growing concerns about the Gulf oil spill, with overwhelming majorities of adults favoring stronger regulation of the oil industry and believing that the spill will affect the nation's economy and environment.

Sixty-two percent of adults in the survey feel the country is on the wrong track, the highest level since before the 2008 election. Just one-third think the economy will get better over the next year, a 7-point drop from a month ago and the low point of Mr. Obama's tenure.

Amid anxiety over the nation's course, support for Mr. Obama and other incumbents is eroding. For the first time, more people disapprove of Mr. Obama's job performance than approve. And 57% of voters would prefer to elect a new person to Congress than re-elect their local representatives, the highest share in 18 years.

The results show "a really ugly mood and an unhappy electorate," said Democratic pollster Peter Hart, who conducts the Journal/NBC poll with GOP pollster Bill McInturff. "The voters, I think, are just looking for change, and that means bad news for incumbents and in particular for the Democrats."

Mr. McInturff said voters' feelings, typically set by June in any election year, are being hardened by frustration over the economy and the oil spill. "It would take an enormous and seismic event to change the drift of these powerful forces before November," he said.

Mr. McInturff added that any "little, faint signs" in the spring that voters were adopting a more optimistic outlook have now been "squished by feelings from this oil spill."

271 #279  Hey that new sandwich with the 2 pieces of chicken and the soggy bacon sucks also

They screwed up the near-perfect fusion of chicken and bacons?

Bastards...

272

Morons,

The world's foremost forensic gynecologist has gone wobbly over Obambi. He hates General Petreaus more tha he loves the One's milky load.

273

That is only partial true.  They have no problem with what their ilk did in history, and do know.  How many Jews did Stalin kill? Remember the invasion of Poland?  The gulugs.  China, Cuba, etc.  They don't have any problem killing people that dont have their idea of what the world should be.

Posted by: Hous Bin Pharteen at June 23, 2010 07:53 PM (4yHLd)

There's no contradiction between that and what I wrote.  They have no problem with killing people with whom they disagree, because they hate those people -- the reactionaries, the imperialists, the capitalists, the petit bourgeoisie.  They have a problem with the idea that anyone could hate them enough to kill THEM.

274 The Double Down from KFC is to die for.

275 This is going to be fun.The MFM will now be pulling for Petraeus.The preferred liberal course was to fire McChrystal and announce that the war was unwinnable and speed up the pullout.

276

The world's foremost forensic gynecologist has gone wobbly over Obambi. He hates General Petreaus more tha he loves the One's milky load.

Posted by: Old Dad at June 23, 2010 07:58 PM (LBXax)

You have a stronger stomach than I if you ventured over to his den of iniquity.  I thank you for taking that hit so that others don't have to.

277 So the Australians just sacked their Prime Minister for fecklessness and incompetence, and they didn't have to wait for a general election to do it.  I guess there are one or two good points to a Parliamentary system after all.

278 nevergiveup,

I wasn't at odds, the way it was reported that's what I understood, I don't think he resigned now I think he was relieved and odumbass doesn't know the difference.

279 KFC bit the dust when Yum Foods bought them. The coating tastes like cardboard now, and if the chicken gets any smaller they'll be serving a bucket in a soft drink cup.

280 285 stuiec  You got me confused with thinking you were describing how libtards think, I did not realize you were saying how they DON"T think. My bad :-)

281 I wasn't at odds, the way it was reported that's what I understood, I don't think he resigned now I think he was relieved and odumbass doesn't know the difference. Posted by: 'Nam Grunt at June 23, 2010 08:03 PM (Kd/Wz) Sounds good to me. But I do doubt McChrystal is gonna be invited to to many of Obama's cocktail parties?

282

Prime Minister of Australia resigns. It tunrs out he, not the dingo, at your baby

283

at=ate.

shoot

284 Maybe The One's plan to defeat Al Q is to sick the SEIU on them!  Thats the ticket!   SEIU Local 911 Kabul!

285 I wonder if Sir Golfsalot will spend more that 10 minutes consulting with Gen. Petraeus?

286

I wonder if Sir Golfsalot will spend more that 10 minutes consulting with Gen. Petraeus?

General I need your advice. Do you think I should hit my 9 lightly or use my pitching wedge?

287 Maybe the Gen. wants command of the troops to keep radioactive zombies from NYC and DC from invading the bordering states!!

288 "Ya SUNY Maritime College's cafeteria is about the only place that ruin chicken"

*coughing over the sound of the smoke detector, AGAIN...*

289 Once again I see that Drew and many others on this thread feel constrained to support Obama in letting McCrystal go,  citing "civilian command" and stuff.

Well, boo-hoo, McCrystal didn't follow the rules.  And why is NO ONE castigating Obama because he publicly dissed the military in Jonathan Alter's book?

It seems to me that one of the obligations of the Commander-in-Chief is to support his own troops,  no mock them and make snide comments about them/

You people are not seeing what is right before your eyes: Obama wants to withdraw from Afghanistan but he wants all the blame to fall on the military.  That is why McCrystal is gone,  that is why he appointed Petraeus,  that is why Obama will continue with these asinine rules of engagement and cutting supplies and support money.  

Plus,  Obama did not fire4 McCrystal.  McCrystal resigned.

This compulsion to look "fair" and "consistent" (as Glen Beck said earlier today) is killing us.   I do not want to be fair to Obama.  I want him destroyed politically, and I am not going to mealy-mouth around about this.  McCrystal and his people wouldn't have said a word if Obama hadn't trashed them,  hampered their efforts, and generally been nothing but a pain in the ass. 

You all who are saying you are being fair,  good luck.  That and a dime might get you a cup of coffee if you are lucky, but it ain't going to get any sort of advantage with the left, who wants to destroy us.

Not in a good mood, so going to a site about gardening.

290 stuiec  You got me confused with thinking you were describing how libtards think, I did not realize you were saying how they DON"T think. My bad :-)

Posted by: Hous Bin Pharteen at June 23, 2010 08:05 PM (4yHLd)

Yes, libtards are excellent at reasoning, as in creating elaborate arguments that "prove" that their beliefs are objectively correct.  But they are very averse to thinking, because it takes very little thinking to understand that their reasoning is pure bullshit.

291 Lowery and his butt-body Ponnuru need to be dragged out of the NRO offices and keelhauled.

Lowery: "Obama's Home Run"

Ponnuru: For attempting to take anything written by that dullard Thomas Friedman seriously enough to even bother commenting on it.  And for just generally being a squish.

292 You all who are saying you are being fair,  good luck.

Hey, don't look at me. There's nothing Obama can do or say from here on out that would soften me one bit on him. He's an utter and unmitigated disaster, and I fear for this country greatly. 

293 Well, it appears all the regulars are back to sucking Obama's dick.

294 307 Well, it appears all the regulars are back to sucking Obama's dick.

Back to form? 

295

Uh, excuse me, I just licked it once, to see if it tasted as good as I remember. Jeeze.

Slut.

296 What's Twitter?  Why should I care?

297 I thought he was a eunuch.

298 MacArthur turned the Empire of Japan from world hated into one of the foremost powers on the face of the earth(with the support of America) in less than 3 years. Don't tell me we can't do the same thing in Afghanistan. We just don't have any MacArthurs in America anymore.

299 I suppose the Morons will be interested to know that the new Prime Minister of Australia is (1) a female and (2) a "ranga" -- that is, a ginger.

300 Well, it appears all the regulars are back to sucking Obama's dick. Gentlemen, gentlemen! What did I say?!?

301 Did somebody say dick?

302 Don't tell me we can't do the same thing in Afghanistan.

Japan had a modernized (in many ways) culture. It's apples and oranges, IMO.

303 MacArthur turned the Empire of Japan from world hated into one of the foremost powers on the face of the earth(with the support of America) in less than 3 years. Don't tell me we can't do the same thing in Afghanistan. We just don't have any MacArthurs in America anymore.

Posted by: Eric at June 23, 2010 08:30 PM (2/Fyp)

It's not that we don't have any MacArthurs, it's that we don't have any Trumans.  Because, if you'll recall, Step One in transforming the Empire of the Sun into a democratic industrial powerhouse was to level it with lots and lots of ordnance, including nukes.

304 Obama just got himself out of having to walk back the withdrawal date without an excuse.  The new guy's gonna need some time to right the listing ship, so Obama gets to break that promise to the left with a clear conscience.

305 When MacArthur took over Japan and moved it in the right direction he wasn't dealing with cavemen.

306 that is, a ginger.

Oh noes!

307 When MacArthur took over Japan and moved it in the right direction he wasn't dealing with cavemen. Put me in charge in Afghanistan. I'll change hearts & minds, trust me.

308 Obama just got himself out of having to walk back the withdrawal date without an excuse.  The new guy's gonna need some time to right the listing ship, so Obama gets to break that promise to the left with a clear conscience.

Posted by: Purple Avenger at June 23, 2010 08:34 PM (lpx5s)

If he still thinks he has to make excuses to the Left or that he can somehow keep their approval without a wholesale withdrawal from Afghanistan on his original timetable or sooner, he's delusional.  The Left doesn't want the listing ship righted, they want all hands to abandon it.

At some point, Obama has to decide if he wants to be President of the United States or President of his Left-wing base.  He thinks he has to be the latter to have a chance at reelection, but the opposite is true.

309 "I'm a doctor, Jim, not a Thai ladyboy prostitute." Ah crap, I was gonna ask you to give me a Foamy.

310 MacArthur turned the Empire of Japan from world hated into one of the foremost powers on the face of the earth(with the support of America) in less than 3 years. Don't tell me we can't do the same thing in Afghanistan. We just don't have any MacArthurs in America anymore.

Posted by: Eric at June 23, 2010 08:30 PM (2/Fyp)

It's true that we lack MacArthurs.  But the worst of the Japanese Shintoists was 10 times more civilized than any Afghan POS.  MacArthur had far better raw material to work with.  The muslims are un-fixable.

311 All about Twatter in 4:27 from yootoob...

312 I'm a doctor, Jim, not a Thai ladyboy prostitute. And I can't bring this thread back from the dead, either.

Posted by: Bones at June 23, 2010 08:40 PM (wOtDN)

Speaking of the dead and Thai ladyboy prostitutes, what can you do for David Carradine?

313

It's not that we don't have any MacArthurs, it's that we don't have any Trumans.  Because, if you'll recall, Step One in transforming the Empire of the Sun into a democratic industrial powerhouse was to level it with lots and lots of ordnance, including nukes.

Posted by: stuiec at June 23, 2010 08:33 PM (W+GYq)

Let's not go wishing for Trumans.  No American of that generation would have made the mistake of not pounding Japan into the dirt, so it's not like he was a vital, visionary man.  He was soft on the commies, and a Stalin lover.  He held MacArthur back from doing what needed to be done in Korea.  I've no use for more Trumans.

314 OT - Looks like they've put the LMRP cap back on the well.

315 I've no use for more Trumans.

Posted by: Reactionary at June 23, 2010 08:47 PM (4nbyM)

Well, there's no Democrat in this generation who has enough vision to pound the Islamofascists into the dirt.  (Nor, it seems, any Republican among those in high office.)

316 The Drudge McChrystal Translator. at AD.

317 At least He's not doubling down on stupid for a change.

318

(Nor, it seems, any Republican among those in high office.)

Like, perhaps, Boehner?

I was a supporter until he went soft.

And an Ohioan no less...

319
If General Stan MacChrystal didn't say Joe Biden was a clown, let me take this opportunity to affirm my belief Joe Bite-Me is a fucking clown.

320 My IQ is higher than your IQ.

321

I disagree whole heartedly with anyone who believes that McChrystal deserved firing over was he said. He said that Obama was unprepared for a meeting and that he thought Obama was intimidated and uncomfortable in a meeting with generals.

That gets you fired in today's America? Bullshit!

322

In most cases it would only get a reprimand. But our current CiC is "special".

323

Well, there's no Democrat in this generation who has enough vision to pound the Islamofascists into the dirt.  (Nor, it seems, any Republican among those in high office.)

Posted by: stuiec at June 23, 2010 08:53 PM (W+GYq)

You got me there, I must admit.  Even the Reps have gone all limp-wristed when it comes to doling out the ass kicking.  Gulf War 2 should have been used as an opportunity.  We should have exploded a MOAB weapon over every major population center.  The Iranians would still be hiding in their bunkers and trying to convince us of their harmlessness.  Every other muslim nation would also be groveling like a beaten dog.  In the name of saving a bunch of savages who hate our guts we threw away an opportunity to take matters in hand.  "Innocent" civilians my ass. 

324

That gets you fired in today's America? Bullshit!

That's how it should be. The chain of command should be in place and needs to be followed closely, otherwise a breakdown in communication will inevitably follow and result in chaos..

FTR, Obama can go fuck himself.

325
I agree with President Obama, and not only should General MacChrystal be terminated, he should be forced to resign his Commission.  I dreamed about his plan to surround the White House with tanks and Infantry, and that would make America more like Haiti. 

Rosalynn and Mother Lillain both agree with my assessment, and I spoke with mother through Miss Cleo only last Saturday.  After my passing, I will be known very favorable as a wonderful man who accomplished a lot for America, even though it's a very spiteful, angry, and hateful country full of rednecks, conservatives, and Dick Cheney.

326

That's how it should be. The chain of command should be in place and needs to be followed closely, otherwise a breakdown in communication will inevitably follow and result in chaos..

FTR, Obama can go fuck himself.

Posted by: ErikW at June 23, 2010 09:14 PM (/h6fY)

That's not how it should be and it's not how it is. If McChrystal would have said something of substance that he disagreed with Obama on or that he was a dumb ass that didn't know what he was doing they yes fire him. Saying didn't think he was prepared for a meeting or that he was uncomfortable around generals is not a firing offense. Unless you are one thinskinned insercure MF.

327

Damn it Jimmah, you sure make a convincing argument.

Now go f**k yourself  and Miss Cleo.

328
The race is on for "Worst President in Modern Times", and Jimmah Cartah has slipped into second place.  This is a real tragedy because Jimmah always wanted to be number one.

329 This is a real tragedy because Jimmah always wanted to be number one. Oh, Jimmy Carter has always been number two.

330

Barry McDippshit is 5 laps ahead of every president in the race for worst.

No, make that 50 laps on a 7 mile oval.

331

Unless you are one thinskinned insercure MF.

To be sure! But based on the chain of command, Obama has the right to fire McCrystal (sp?) for being subordinate.

 

332 O/T

Pro football Hall of Famer Lawrence Taylor was indicted Wednesday by a suburban New York grand jury on charges of third-degree rape and patronizing a prostitute.

Surely this is a nothingburger?  If Bill Clinton can rape and pillage with impunity, it stands to reason that LT can cop a little cooter from a flat backer in the same manner as Eliot Spitzer, star of CNN?

333

To be sure! But based on the chain of command, Obama has the right to fire McCrystal (sp?) for being subordinate.

 

Posted by: ErikW at June 23, 2010 09:27 PM (/h6fY)

Obama has the right to fire him because he doesn't like his frigging hair cut. Claiming what McChrystal said was insubordinate is ridiculous.

334 "Saying didn't think he was prepared for a meeting or that he was uncomfortable around generals is not a firing offense."

---that statement shows a lack of control, and queasiness by the commander in chief.

the firing was necessary.

335 Bad political move by Obama. There is a long and rich tradition of military leaders mocking Presidents. Lincoln had his McClellan and Hooker. He even pulled Hooker aside and told him “point blank” to concentrate on winning battles and he (Lincoln) would suffer the insults. FDR took insults for years from Patton but gave him command of the 3rd Army for the final push into Germany. Truman endured 7 years in Japan and Korea from MacArthur until he did become insubordinate. Why, because he was successful. Point is, Obama could have put his arm around McCrystal and said what Lincoln did……win one for us and I will suffer the insult. And any any paper pusher who mentioned military code 88 for an off the cuff insult to the VP, would have been laughed out of the Oval Office. It’s not like McCrystal wasn’t an excellent General. This President is such a glamor queen.

But what do you expect from someone’s conception of leadership comes from “The Apprentice”.

336

Obama has the right to fire him because he doesn't like his frigging hair cut. Claiming what McChrystal said was insubordinate is ridiculous.

If you ran a business and your manager trashed you, would you fire him?

337

_{If you ran a business and your manager trashed you, would you fire him?}

Am I an effite douche-nozzle who is destroying the company I am charged with running?

338 ...and am I happy to be doing so?

339 i think people are letting their ideology cloud their rationale on this one. wether you like it or not, obama is president. wether you like it or not, there is protocol within the military structure/administration. this isnt friggin WW2 and this isnt the time of lincoln, it's now.

the general made a mistake by letting rolling stone get close, it happens. and the mistake cost him his command, and rightfully so.

340

If you ran a business and your manager trashed you, would you fire him?

Posted by: ErikW at June 23, 2010 09:32 PM (/h6fY)

To start with you are assuming something that is not in the record and that being that McChrystal trashed him. I do run a business and I have had people who work for say things that are not flattering sometimes. No, I don't fire them for benine comments such as McChrystals. I talk to them and see what the problem is.

Sometimes they are right.

341 im not sure id try and make an analogy between war-fighting/ the military and a fucking business dispute. get your heads out of your asses already.

342 the general made a mistake by letting rolling stone get close, it happens. and the mistake cost him his command, and rightfully so.

Posted by: str8 outta at June 23, 2010 09:39 PM (RnEkx)

I served in the Military, getting fired wasn't so easy when I was in.

343 "I served in the Military, getting fired wasn't so easy when I was in."

thats neither here nor there. 

344 any person who thinks that ROE come from the White House is an idiot.

345 insubordination within the military has ALWAYS been there. but never on par as it was such as in korea and vietnam. when commanders AND troops squabbled as lives were lost in the field. in a minute breakdown causes casualties and choas, and this can lead to an eventual crumbling of the theater in general were it to spread. so you nip it in the bud, right off the bat.

346

Way back up at 214: again, let me reiterate: they will back the party/ideology that stays the most out of their hair and allows them to do their job.  I don't think that has so much to do with party loyalty -- at least from my experience it has always been stressed that loyalty to one's comrades and to one's mission was where the loyalty lay, not Republicans or Democrats. (because any soldier, sailor, airman, or marine should know that politicians, like reporters, make no sense and are only out to fuck ya).

While the Dems have been infinitely worse, some Republicans haven't had the best track record so far as stabbing the military in the back -- a reality not lost on the troops or their leaders.

347 any person who thinks that ROE come from the White House is an idiot."

---yeah because you know, the generals in the field know just how much warning people before an attack works. or that you cant fire on the enemy unless its approved by a translator is a necessary action....yeah right.

348 "Rules of engagement are most often decided upon by commanders and are created to carry out and fall in line with over-arching orders or goals from higher command."

---key words= higher command

president= commander in chief- higher command.

you dont have to like that reality, but thats just how it is.

349 No, I don't fire them for benine comments such as McChrystals. I talk to them and see what the problem is.

Sometimes they are right.

You're a better person than me.

I'd can the motherfuckers.

350

I'm of the opinion that how Lincoln handled it was better -- as long as the general is winning, take the insult.  Call them on the carpet, but if they are winning then that is the most important thing.  Winning wars is important -- politics should be shoved aside, because winning is important.

No M shouldn't have said it, but this was a petty, pissy thing imho (and I read the article -- it was groan worthy but other presidents have taken far worse stuff from their generals).

351 Winning wars is important -- politics should be shoved aside, because winning is important."

-- this isnt a 'typical' war.  'winning' these types of wars, besides the overall body-count, is something far different from what weve known. and as such, theres different protocol involved goddammit.

352 Petraeus may well be a selfless patriot but he's not stupid enough to go into a setup.

---

Says you.

Petraeus is being used to save the Administration's ass politically.

353 People tell me to trust that Petraeus wouldn't obey this order from Obama unless he could set the stage.

I wonder if he's really that powerful.

Let's just picture Obama ordered Petraeus to accept this mission and act like he was confident and happy, but with no concessions for P.

There's a chance he'd say 'yes, sir'.   He knows we have people dying in Afghanistan who need some kind of competent leadership.  I don't even know if he's resign under terrible circumstances to protest, because he might feel obligated to his troops.

Either way, I'm praying for him and his success.

354

371  Some protocols never change...goddamnit.  In fact, I would say that "winning wars" isn't a protocol -- it's a reality, or a necessity if you will.

Let's think beyond the firing of McC -- how does this shake up the system at CENTCOM now that Petraeus has been reassigned (or doubly assigned, or whatever you want to call it?)?  And at a moment when that probably wasn't the best thing to do?  This isn't exactly a slow work period, what with all that is currently up in the air.

Or let's look at it from the opposite end -- how does this all play out with the rank and file?  And let's consider all that has happened just within the last 12 months, keeping in mind this isn't exactly a slow work period for them either.

And last but not least -- yes, McC got his from the precedent...did Rolling Stone recieve any harsh and public words from our dear leader?  After all, their reporter stirred the shit in the middle of the nation's (and the president's) war -- those are the CinC's generals...his troops.  Why no public censure and outrage at RS?

355 I have to wonder whether the phrase "McChrystal is relieved" has a double meaning here. What military man in his right mind would want to be in that position? Petreaus can't be too happy, either.

356 Look as much as I hate to defend Obama and his insane clown posse national security team fact is he was right to fire the general. In America the Military is commanded by the civilian elected government look it up it is in the Constitution and for good reason if McCrystal had a problem with the civilian "leadership" or lack there of he should have resigned and hit the news shows instead he insulted his Commander In Chief in a public forum not only was this wrong ethically on his part but was also a violation of the Uniform Code Of Military Justice (UCMJ) and Obama is going easy on him, he could if he wanted to court-martial the general and any other Officer who used contemptuous  words towards officials under article 88 of the UCMJ here is the exact statute: "Any commissioned officer who uses contemptuous  words against the President, the Vice President, Congress, the Secretary of Defense, the Secretary of a military department, the Secretary of Transportation, or the Governor or legislature of any State, Territory, Commonwealth, or possession in which he is on duty or present shall be punished as a court-martial may direct."
So you see MCcrystal is getting off light. As much as I hate to say it Obama did right on this one.

357 Sorry I'm late all you M&M and all you armchair asshats, Having just returned from flaming most of my mil-bloggs for getting it sooooo f'd up on the chimpy mcnugget poo fest with play by play by dear leader, I have decided just to post to the lowest common denom. of those present................... grow some balls you metro-male loafer-lighters, and for all you moronettes who fancy themselves pirates with daggers clenched in teeth while drinking rum..........SHAVE.........please.....at least the pits for the love of all.....SHAVE. You are sexy NOT!!!! Thank you and kiss my ass (NOT shaved!) night

358 378:

Plagarist droog.  Watch ur bak.  Nutter.

359

We're talking anout an imbedded flaming liberal writer from Rolling Stone. Rolling Stone! And McChrystal and his staff didn't have sense enough to realize that the writer was there to do a hit piece that would undermine McChrystal's efforts to win that war??? Their stupidity is mind-boggling. I'm incredulous. That was a more than sufficient reason to fire McChrystal ..., and his staff of blabbermouths, too.  What a bunch of incompetent, damned fools.

That was just one in a series of their recent outrageous blunders, another of which led to the exposure and murder of upper echelon, secret CIA operatives, as you may recall.  I swear, this has become a country of gossipy busybodies, who shoot off their big mouths without activating their brains.

360 McC approved the article.

He's a powerful officer who should have had the balls to say 'No'.  All he had to say was that he did not approve of this article, in public, and stands behind the CinC.  Well, okay, they'd have canned him anyway.

McChrystal was a very competent leader at a lower level.  He was promoted to his point of incompetence, but he is a very competent man in his own element.  I hope they don't throw him away, even though he did majorly fuck up.

Maybe he could go back to special operations planning.

361

Obama wouldn't double down for McChrystal despite the report submitted from the onset of his Afghan command. McChrystal said we had only 12 months to turn things around, and Obama waited 6 months to read the report and get back to the General. McChrystal needed a minimum of 40,000 new troops and Obama dragged his heels before sending only 20,000.

For all the "double down" talk, that would only bring measures up to McChrystal's original request at this point, 18 months into Obama's presidency.

I detest a leader who sabotages his own team, and has the audacity to take offense at the image he's created for himself amongst his troops, and relies strictly on hearsay to fire McChrystal for what the reporter said he heard from unnamed sources, like the reporter's own thoughts on paper.

Petraeus [McChrystal] may well be a selfless patriot but he's not stupid enough to go into a setup. Now, all good soldiers think they can do the mission ... He's not going to take on a hopeless cause. He has to honestly believe this war can be won and that Obama and the people he will have to work with can do it.

362  This was part of a Kabuki Theater play.
Smoke 'n' Mirrors
Shadows on a screen

363

Karzai shows Obama-esque qualities with his lack of leadership and corruption.

And yet, Karzai agreed with McChrystal. Karzai can't be all bad!