Faced with protecting America from angry, anti-government teabaggers who fly airplanes into IRS buildings or shoot up the Pentagon on a weekly basis, I can understand President ObamaÂ’s (PBUH) stance on this matter.

I have to believe that this "honest_cloud" is one of the Morons getting their sock puppet on...

I DON'T WANT THE GOD DAMNED ITALICS, PIXY!!!

They already have the newborns covered, don't they?  And you really need something like this whenever you're admitted to a hospital, or have tests done at a clinic (it's for your own protection, after all).

Wonder how long it will be before not having a DNA file will be as weird as refusing a SS number. I'm thinking it won't be long at all.

PA, you make good points about the bureaucracy and lab capacity needed, but never underestimate the capabilities of a determined government. Even if it languished into something that each police department handled in its own way, the structure would be there for a future government to pull the strings together and turn it into a national program. In just the last year we've seen attempts to federalize health care, student loans, the financial industry and the automobile industry. It's obvious that targets in the near future will be energy, the environment, and even recreation (fishing, anyone?).

This is a crappy idea that will likely get shot down. The next attempt will be to persuade everyone to register their children's DNA -- for their safety, of course.

Aye carumba.

This is a crappy idea that will likely get shot down. The next attempt will be to persuade everyone to register their children's DNA -- for their safety, of course.

There's not even an excuse for that though.

Posted by: Purple Avenger at March 12, 2010 12:42 AM (3v7U2)

I've got a cot in a FEMA camp with your name on it PA.

As a population control measure, you're only allowed one child comrade.  Any extras will be dispatched.

Phew! That's better than I though would happen; I was concerned there'd be a sterilization program for Enemies of the People.

There's not even an excuse for that though.

Sure there is. They can mandate it as part of national health care, for purposes of organ transplants. They can include it in post-partum care as standard procedure. If this national ID card goes through, it's a given that everyone will have to have one, starting at birth.

They'll make it sound logical and sensible. They'll get the press to carry their water, and before you know it you'll be branded a reactionary if you object. You'll be considered a bad parent, like a Christian Scientist.

Finding an excuse that they think will fly with the public will be the easy part.

Sure there is. They can mandate it as part of national health care, for purposes of organ transplants.

My objection was with encouraging parents to have their kids get DNA profiled, in a manner similar with what the police sometimes do with fingerprinting. If it's mandated then any encouragement becomes moot.

(original) This is a crappy idea that will likely get shot down. The next attempt will be to persuade everyone to register their children's DNA -- for their safety, of course.

There's not even an excuse for that though.(/original)

38 They'll get my DNA when they pull it from my cold, dead crank.

They should hire Borat.

You wouldn't need strict chain-of-custody protections for this because any positive hit is not what would be used at trial.

Rather, a positive hit from DNA-on-record, even without chain-of-custody and thus a lower level of reliability, would merely be enough to establish probable cause to obtain a fresh DNA sample, and that new sample would be the one used at trial.

(same thing with fingerprints, which the better practice is to compare prints at the crime scene to fresh prints taken from a suspect for use at trial, rather than some moldy print card that has been sitting in a file drawer)

In any event, what do you expect from DICTATORS who look for ways to implement a "law" without both houses of Congress passing it, but instead having one house "deem" it to be passed by fiat.

Playing Devil's Advocate here-

But how is this different from taking one's Fingerrints in the big scheme of things? they do that already.

Sure I think it sucks, but I am betting that is the argument they re using, without having read the article yet.

a lot of his supporters have his DNA....IYKWIMAITYD

Hey, I voted for McCain.

a lot of his supporters have his DNA....IYKWIMAITYD

Hey, I didn't vote for anyone - I was already murdered.

I didn't even have his DNA on me, and I was murdered.

Posted by: Flavius Julius at March 12, 2010 01:36 AM (IrdrP)

That is unsettling.

"Now that Obama is trying to fight crime, "terrorism", and evil bank tellers, you guys scream bloody murder. How typical"

The only crime in Barry's eyes is that Republicans will not walk lock step with him to pass Barrycare, if only to give the Dimmowits cover when the whole plan backfires and the enraged public needs to string up the loons who wanted to pass this walking disaster.

If they want to take the DNA of any person who arrives from a Mooselimb country,  I'm all for that.  Time to stop worrying about 3 year old children and 86 year old grandmothers and worry about the real threat to America.

Yes the what if a Republican did this.  However, I am sure that all the same things were said when they started gathering fingerprints. Of course, it wasn't until the modern computer age before the FBI could start collecting them and sorting them into patterns via computer digitizing. 

They have already created massive files on everyone via SS, the census, and income tax as well as private company data mining. I think it is funny as hell (ironic) that SCOTUS can rule anti-abortion laws are unconstitutional based on a "right to privacy" at the same time they allow the government to collect and maintain the most intrusive data possible on everyone in the country. It is simply ludicrous. There is no privacy in the U.S. or any other modern country. I suspect that the beleagured citizens of Iran actually have more real privacy than we do.

As for Lindsey Graham and his ID card one must not lose sight of the real objective there. That BS ID card has already been floated once and rejected because everyone knows that even before they finished making them the scammers and mules would be counterfitting them. In short they would spend a lot of money and accomplish nothing.

What they are after is Amnesty Round III and adding yet another "border enforcement" that is either unenforcable or simply will not work.  That was what the Amensty Round II bill had in it and it was easily recognizable.

There was overwhelming opposition to Amnesty II and that finally killed it because the Rs were in power and the Dems were not able to raise it from the dead over and over like healthcare.  This is why we must be scared until we oust all the big gov liberals. None of their plans ever goes away. A defeat for one bill is only temporary to them.  

The Brits are doing this now I believe

Yes they do.

At least it won't cost any money to implement.

You've forgotten who you're dealing with.

The next attempt will be to persuade everyone to register their children's DNA -- for their safety, of course

Remember fingerprinting for children in case they get lost?

I need to re-read Orwell...and Revelations. You never know.

We're closer than you think.

Slouching towards Gattaca?

Neat movie showing the potential future consequences of liberal eugenics.

When I mean "neat", I mean "scary as hell".  And they didn't even get into how bad the gov't totalitarianism could get (i.e. mass murdering of those with "inferior" genentics) if eugenics is taken to the very extreme.

/I'd probably be first to go.

#118  While you're at it Mr. Precedent, go ahead an ban recreational fishing too. Thats gonna go over real well here in the South. Ahh hell, go ahead and enact a second prohibition on alcohol while you're at it, the sky's the limit with this communist puke.

There goes my idea of living off the land when we go full-commie.  Was that partially the point?

There goes my idea of living off the land when we go full-commie.  Was that partially the point?

Posted by: Kratos (on the back of Gaia, scaling Mt Olympus) at March 12, 2010 08:26 AM (9hSKh)

129 Lets turn fishing poles into plowshares !

I'd turn my pole into a spear.

#133  Farming rapes Gaia. 

Gaia is a bitch.  I seriously hope I get to kill her in GoW3.

"I have a friend, rich limo liberal, that I never thought was an Obama nut, she thinks the health bill is peachy keen"

The rich and politically connected think the health care legistlation won't effect them - they can just buy whatever they need.  This is for the 'little people'.

142 Just heard Barry is delaying his spring break trip to break arms for health care passage.

That ought to work, given that he's had over a freaking year to persuade people.  That's the thing about narcissists - they'll never admit they were part of any problem.

 J

Remember the librarian in Newton who refused to give the FBI access to a public computer form where a threat was alleged to have originated?

Greetings from the North Shore, by the way.

147 I'd love to be a fly on the wall when Barry had to tell Michelle spring break was postponed.

Michelle doesn't seem like the throwing lamps type ...

Comrades, there's nothing wrong with DNA testing. We just have to know who the enemies of the state are.

And I think that could be the real Honest Clod posting in the Wired article. The comment reeked of his stupidity.

135  Most of the cops I know would be against it (I'm from a rural area as well), but come on, there are always a few Barney Fife useful idiots and jack booted bully boy types on every force who would go along with it because they like the feeling of power.

The sport fishing thing isn't about fishing persay (just like amnesty isn't really about giving amnesty to poor, brown, illegals):  they want to knock down the Second, but going after game hunting has caused an uproar in the past -- so, go after it through the backdoor: restrict fishing, restrict recreation -- finally hunting will be almost impossible except for those who are wealthy enough to go to private shooting reserves (and at this point the wealthier segment won't give a shit: just like cap and tax, and amnesty, and healthcare, and even education to an extent, they won't be affected -- so hunting goes out).  Once hunting goes away, then the NRA really doesn't have much to stand on...and then there goes the Second. (by that time the DNA/national id card is in place, probably CCTV like in Britain -- you don't "need" weapons for self defense...).

@Bender #44

Beat me to it.

Michelle doesn't seem like the throwing lamps type ...

Posted by: Kratos (on the back of Gaia, scaling Mt Olympus) at March 12, 2010 09:10 AM (9hSKh)

She is the seething type. 

Posted by: HeatherRadish at March 12, 2010 09:19 AM (mR7mk)

Oh my.  No amount of artful reshaping of those eyebrows won't be able to hide her scowl over this one.

Federal law already allows for arrestees to have DNA samples entered into the federal database, but it's dependent on state statute for inclusion. In other words, if the state mandates arrestee sampling, then the DNA profile can be entered. Also, states have different laws regarding retention; some can keep the profiles indefinitely, while others must delete the profiles and destroy the samples if charges are dropped or if there is an acquittal. As you can imagine, this quickly becomes a bureaucratic nightmare.

The ACLU's concerns about DNA testing are bullshit. They have been against any kind of DNA testing since day one.

Arrestee sampling is a gigantic pain in the ass for the reasons PA stated and given that states are already strapped for cash, this idea is highly unlikely to spread to the states that haven't already implemented it. You are talking about millions of samples per year with a very conservative estimate of perhaps $300 per sample that adds up rather quickly. The FBI has been mandated to enter DNA profiles from anyone entering the country illegally, ask them how easily it's working out for them.

I am not sure if this is really worth it. While it would be nice to get the DNA from actual criminals, the problem is that one can be arrested for any number of trivial bullshit charges if the state really wants to get you. Perhaps if the law could be structured so as to restrict sampling to certain types of arrests, but again, you create another bureaucratic mess.

I DON'T WANT THE GOD DAMNED ITALICS, PIXY!!!

Neither do I, but you should have done something before they all came and had 8 children and opened up pizzarias.

We're kinda stuck now.

Orwell was so wrong... the 5-Minute Hate has been going on for over a year already. I'm beat.

OTOH, people imprisoned for refusing to buy health insurance will be forced to rage against a huge, menacing picture of Bush.

^{Posted by: maddogg at March 12, 2010 09:17 AM (OlN4e)}

And that's exactly where all this shit is leading to.

So plan accordingly Morons.

You know what would be interesting?

A list of the freedoms that Obama has curtailed or attempted to do so.  What else would be on the list?

As was said:  what would happen if a Republican suggested it?

When someone gets arrested they have their fingerprints and photo taken.  What is the difference, other than the cost of storage and analysis?  Also, no chain of custody is necessary since it is not evidence.  You see the DNA will not be held, but taken to a place to be extracted and entered into a computer database.  If the dna is matched by a computer from dna taken from a crime scene, then there will be another independent sampling from the subject and from the new crime scene, then matched under the rules of evidence.  The origional dna match is just for use by law enforcement to find a suspect.

I agree the left would have gone bonkers, as they continuously did in the State of California that takes dna samples from all arrested right now.

This will be more expensive than photo and fingerprinting, but will be a great investigative source.

This will be more expensive than photo and fingerprinting, but will be a great investigative source.

Posted by: Federale at March 12, 2010 11:01 AM (thedx)

What's that kind of gullibility feel like, anyway? I hear libs have that innocent bliss, too.

172

When someone gets arrested they have their fingerprints and photo taken.  What is the difference, other than the cost of storage and analysis? 

Let me just repost what PA said:

DNA is trivial to plant at a crime scene to frame someone, prints are somewhat harder (not impossible, but technically much harder).

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