1 Just let us all remember when it comes crashing down--we had a chance. We decided to do something else with that chance.

2 Tax cut my ass!  This man needs some pepto bismol.

3 13,000,000,000,000th!

4 only $6,165?  surprised it's that low

5 I think you guys would be thanking me.

6 It's no longer President Zero.  It's President Twelve Zeroes. 

7 That debt clock is racist! How about this one, towards the bottom: US Unfunded Liabilities: $108 TRILLION

8
Federal pensions are listed as one of the largest budget items, nearly equal to interest on the debt. Houston, we have a problem.

9 Those 25 questions to ask to determine if the US in in recovery over at Business Insider are worth a review.  Curious linked it in the headline comments.

Go through them and you simply can't conclude we're in anything but deep shit.

10 Thanks again FiftyTwo Percenters, you fucking fucks.

I especially like the debt to GDP ratio. Fun times. And by fun times I really mean here comes the economic collapse of this country, and when that happens the rest of the world falls right after.

11 Ace is up!  What Teh Folk will be his next post?

12 If the republicans don't grab this and run with it as a national emergency well then, they're republicans.

13 But you didn't object when George Bush bla bla bla bla bla!

14 It's Bush's Reagan's fault.  You see he cut taxes and expected the Democrats would see the folly of ringing up huge deficits.  So the solution is to raise taxes.  It'll work.  Really it will.

15 Wednesday the 13,000,000,000,000th--if only this news could have waited til Friday...

16

Hey Ace,

Will Folks website has some text messages up saying he made sex with you.

17 LOL, F1 is coming to Texas.

So at least I can have a good time while civilization collapses.

18 Give Ace credit for knowing a good punchline when he sees one. Will Folks is right up their with Charles Gibson, Roman Polanski and Ted Kennedy. That is a pretty big deal for a blogger who named his hand "Nikki Haley."

19 Just let us all remember when it comes crashing down--we had a chance. We decided to do something else with that chance.

I didn't vote for Wilson.

Oh, you mean some little thing that wouldn't matter, because it's been too late for too long. Yeah, we could have done one of those. Still can!

20 Grim Milestone!

Grim Milestone!

Grim Milestone!

21

The debt problem is not unique to Obama.

Sure he put the pedal to the metal but we've been drowning in debt for decades.

I fear we're so far gone that only a full collapse to the point of us all (globally) starting over from an agrarian society might be the only hope.

22 V shape baby V shape. Those mustard seeds we planted are growing into huge mustard trees.

23 "only $6,165?  surprised it's that low"

That includes babies and old ladies.

24 Here's the reality.  You can't be serious about reducing the debt if you either:  won't cut services or won't raise taxes.

Since no politician has the cajones to do both, no one is serious about the debt.

25 I had sex with the national debt. I can prove it. Just give me time.

26

Don't forget that more people are getting money from The Vapid One's© stash than they are from a real job.

Income redistribution has been achieved. Everybody's pay is down, just like they planned. The economically illiterate imbeciles that infest Washington need to be exterminated. We had a perfectly good economy until we started voting in the worshippers of Marx, Mao, Engels, and Alinsky.

27

O/T: Slate defends Joe McGinniss' creepy stalking of Palin (surprise surprise)

http://www.slate.com/id/2255087/

28

JUST PLUG TEH DAMN HOLE11!!11

29 oops sock off

30 like mere interest on the debt is $6,165 per citizen.

You have to factor in that this is calculated using the lowest interest rates the US has seen in over a half century - kept artificially low by the Fed buying up our own debt (i.e. printing money).  The Fed's balance sheet was just given the okay to expand by over 2 trillion (more printing enabled).  And, on top of that, the US' debt is frightfully concentrated on short-term debt, meaning that we are that much more vulnerable to interest rate changes.

Rising interest rates are the most serious threat and there isn't really much of anything we can do about it.  If interest rates go to 10% (the prime rate got up to 21.5% in 1980) ... whoa, boy!

31 26 Here's the reality.  You can't be serious about reducing the debt if you either:  won't cut services or won't raise taxes.

As always SS, you're at best half right.

We don't have a revenue problem, we have a spending problem!

32 "only $6,165?  surprised it's that low"



That includes babies and old ladies.



And it's only the annual interest.

33 Here's the reality.  You can't be serious about reducing the debt if you either:  won't cut services or won't raise taxes.

Since no politician has the cajones to do both, no one is serious about the debt.

Posted by: seattle slough at May 26, 2010 12:49 PM (JRGA6)

You should maybe check out Paul Ryans website. He lays out exactly how to do it and he is running for re election.

34 Said McConnell: "bipartisanship is not about personalities. We like him fine...It's about policy. And regretfully, most of the major initiatives of this administration have been on the far left and his strategy has been to try to pick off as few Republicans as possible for as far-left legislation as he can get. That's not our idea of bipartisanship, but it's not personal....If he wants to meet us in the middle anytime in the balance of this Congress, obviously we'd be happy to do that."

Yes,  I see a light at the end of the tunnel.

35 JUST PLUG TEH DAMN HOLE11!!11 Posted by: Barack O'Bumbles at May 26, 2010 12:50 PM (CfmlF) How many times do I have to admit to having done that, already? How much more decent can I be?

36 Don't worry, citizens! As leader of Magic Barack's Marching Slum and Bungle Corpse, all I have to do is tell some minion to 'plug the damn hole in our economy' and it'll get done! Just watch! (dials phone) 'Plug the damn hole in our economy!' (slams phone down). See? That's why I'm in charge of everything, and you have your own modest role to fulfill at my direction! I guess now it's time you were thanking me! You're welcome! And now, it's time to go on a well-earned vacation! Goodbye!

37

13 trillion in pennies would PLUG THE HOLE, people.^*

It's all in the plan.

 

^*They would also weigh 3.25 trillion kilograms.  This could cause a slight wobble in the earth's axis.  Also, Guam would capsize.

 

 

38 $6,165?  That's like a Wagyu sandwich.

39

29, we really need to get that douche's address and make his life a living hell.

Subscribe him to tons of junk mail, book of the month club, Columbia House music, etc.

40 SS our gov collects more revenue than any Gov on the planet. How about you go back in the corner and play with urself.

41

Uhhh, my plan is to refinance this debt at a lower interest rate.  This should save or create trillions of dollars, which is essential for creating a sustainable green economy with good paying green jobs.

This, combined with the savings from Health Care Reform should take care of our budgetary difficulties.

42

This man needs some pepto bismol.

This.

43 You know, the solution is blindingly simple. Repudiate the debt.

First, it'd be an immediate $117K bonus for all the taxpayers in the US. Second, it would make subsequent deficit spending all but impossible: "Yeah, we repudiated it last year, but we really, really, really intend to pay back what we borrow this year...."

Third, it would completely torpedo China's growing hegemony in the far east -- they've been aggressively mercantilist and have amassed a huge pile of Treasuries, which will cause some consternation when they become worthless.

44
I'm tired of all these Motherfolking numbers on this Motherfolking chart!

45 #39  How many times do I have to admit to having done that, already? How much more decent can I be?

I'd appreciate your "hole-plugging" a little more if I didn't have to put up with the damn smell! 

And try using some joint-compound next time afterwords!

46 $13,000,000,000,000 and counting. It's as if it was a bad idea to put Harvard lawyers in charge of the nation's economic, monetary, industrial, education, science, medical, and foreign policies... Nah, that can't be it, lawyers know everything. Carry on!

47

Repudiate the debt.

The Grapes of Wrath Part II:  The Joads Go Cannibal and Shit

Yes, it would be even worse than that.

48 OT - As if we didn't need more confirmation that Obama's troop move to AZ was purely political...

Arizona Gets Border Soldiers; None for Texas

Arizona got a response. Texas is still waiting for an answer.

After repeated requests for help, President Barack Obama has agreed to send 1,200 National Guard troops to Arizona's border with Mexico. But so far, the president hasn't responded to Texas' request for assistance.

Gov. Rick Perry has sent letters to Obama, Defense Secretary Robert Gates and Department of Homeland Security Secretary Janet Napolitano requesting National Guard troops for the Texas-Mexico border.

Almost a year and a half after the first letter was sent, Perry hasn't received an answer.

49 Remember when the Democrats insisted that Social Security was perfectly solvent and that George Bush was just scaring old people?

Remember when George Bush expanded Medicare? *sigh*

We're fucked. And you can blame not only corrupt politicians, but the economic illiteracy of our fellow citizens.

50 Posted by: cthulhu at May 26, 2010 12:58 PM (fYgoq)

Newsletter, please.

51 We should pile all the IOU's to China in the US treasury and use them to plug the hole in the Gulf.

52 I think President Obama is doing a fantastic job of fixing the mess Bush made. I intend on voting for him again in 2012. Thress cheers for President Obama....

53 My opponents can not just sit on the sidelins and say "Hey that's a socialist plug."

54

Just out of curiosity, what would actually happen if we did repudiate the debt?

OK, no more debt payments.  No more borrowing.  So, either Social Security recipients get their benefits slashed, or taxes go through the roof, or we inflate our money supply to pay this.

What else am I missing?

55 50 You know, the solution is blindingly simple. Repudiate the debt.

That's a true reset button, Cthulhu.  There would be a bit of chaos in the interim though.

The Chinese would be mightily pissed though.  They may feel a bit froggy and try something completely stupid, say a Taiwanese invasion.  They're probably going to have to try something like that in the near future anyway absent economic woes because of their child sex imbalance.

56 Fun with math.

Pi is 3.14.

If you hold up to a mirror a piece of paper with 3.14 written on it, it spells PIE.

Well, actually it spells PI.E but it still spells pie.

57 @53 "none for Texas"

yeah, sigh . . . no surprise there

plus, idiot-in-chief hates texas and it's getting harder & harder for him to disguise that

58 I've taken note of every coworker and acquantence who openly and proudly voted for Obama. As far as I'm concerned they're as culpable as Barry himself.

59

Just out of curiosity, what would actually happen if we did repudiate the debt?

OK, no more debt payments.  No more borrowing.  So, either Social Security recipients get their benefits slashed, or taxes go through the roof, or we inflate our money supply to pay this.

What else am I missing?

Posted by: Barack Obama the Financial Planner at May 26, 2010 01:07 PM (OCfDT)

Around 60% of our debt is held by American Citizens and businesses. You would be talking about total global collapse.

60

Just out of curiosity, what would actually happen if we did repudiate the debt?

OK, no more debt payments.  No more borrowing.  So, either Social Security recipients get their benefits slashed, or taxes go through the roof, or we inflate our money supply to pay this.

What else am I missing?

Posted by: Barack Obama the Financial Planner at May 26, 2010 01:07 PM (OCfDT)

We'd piss off and impoverish a lot of bondholders including an enormous number of individual citizens and business, a bunch of pension funds and banks, a bunch of foreign investors.  It would eliminate our ability to borrow in the future.  The Chinese and others might get so pissed that they would invade Hawaii or California.  We would lose all of our allies since they buy bonds too.  We would become a pariah.  Ripple effects would include very person on Earth.  The Four Horsemen would ride.  Unclear whether Jesus would come back.

Think of it as throwing a lit stick of dynamite into the world's largest gasoline storage facility.

Even the USSR did not repudiate the debt that the Czars had run up.  Just not a good idea.

61

Just out of curiosity, what would actually happen if we did repudiate the debt?

OK, no more debt payments.  No more borrowing.

Well, for one, defaulting would save the dollar (as opposed to monetizing the debt and destroying our currency - which is far worse than anything anyone can imagine).  There would still be borrowing, just not from some nations.  There would be domestic borrowing and from within some other nations.  At the current time, as the dollar is still the single trade and reserve currency (the Euro is worse than a joke), many nations would not even have the luxury of cutting the US off from anything.  That would being their trade to a halt and kill them.

However, with default, all of this crazy social spending by the federal government, and states, would have to come to a screeching halt.  This is problematic, since our federal courts like to force these expenditures on everyone without any regard for whether they have the power to do so (they don't) or whether we have the money (we don't).

The fact is that default is about the only reasonable way to handle our debt, certainly while the dollar is still the world's currency, but we don't have the political will to do so.  And, the federal government is moving in the opposite direction, anyway, just piling more and more expenditures and future obligations on.  They are going for a real nuclear explosion of monetary systems the world around.

Also, after the US were to default on our debt, there would likely be a race among nations with brains to grab control of the gulf oil fields, as that is where the most important world value is.  Such a move would also have the more important effect of neutering the arab/persian/muslim world, which is why it should have been done after 9/11.

62 Here's the reality.  You can't be serious about reducing the debt if you either:  won't cut services or won't raise taxes.

Since no politician has the cajones to do both, no one is serious about the debt.

Posted by: seattle slough

1. no, here is your opinion.

2. Debt can be alleviated by encouraging economic activity and thus taxable revenues (classifying CO2 as a pollutant does NOT qualify)It isn't surprising that you'd miss that.

3. Debt can be reduced by encouraging relations and trade with countries that are friendly (not sitting on the treaty with Columbia is one example).

try again dog food.

63 C'mon folks. $6165.00? A mere pittance for the comfort of knowing our borders are secure, and we are safe from them evil terrorists, right?

64 What happens if we repudiate the debt?

We get fucked.  That's what happens.

65

2. Debt can be alleviated by encouraging economic activity and thus taxable revenues (classifying CO2 as a pollutant does NOT qualify)It isn't surprising that you'd miss that.

3. Debt can be reduced by encouraging relations and trade with countries that are friendly (not sitting on the treaty with Columbia is one example).

Posted by: Blue Hen at May 26, 2010 01:19 PM (R2fpr)

That is true.  In fact, the only solution to the US' debt burden is growth.  Unfortunately, The Precedent is totally, 100%, unbelievably anti-growth and has done everything in his power to kill growth, so the possibility of outgrowing the debt is unreasonable and not to be considered.  It just cannot happen while The Precedent is occupying the White House and the stagnation is almost assured with dems controlling any of Capitol Hill.

So, you must approach this debt problem understanding that we will not be allowed to grow out of it, and then consider what other possibilities there are.

66 try again dog food.

Rowf? Bleeeachhhh!

67 Don't worry Barry has a plan to tax, print money and borrow our way out of the debt.

68 try again dog food.

Rowf? Bleeeachhhh!

Posted by: Barky ain't eatin' that sh*t

 

Story from my batchelor days: When I struck out in my first place, I sought ways to economize. That included buying cheap food that would keep in my hip batchelor pad. One attempt was a generic 'potted meat product'. School cafeteria and Marine Corps experience were defeated by this however. I offered some to my cat, a large ginger tom, who didn't care much for people food. He refused it. The true test came when I offered it to my Labrador retriever, and he blanched. This dog was known to hork down food without seeing it, much less tasting it. I did not repeat this experiment.

69

ace,

the proper spelling is TBAGGRZ.

thank you.


_{(and debt repudiation WILL happen, it's a question of when.  Is Taiwan worth the --what is it $895 Billion or so?-- that China holds?  Our debt is spread so far around, repudiation will collase the entire world economy, probably for a decade or three.)}

China, Mainland 895.2
Japan 784.9
United Kingdom 2/ 279.0
Oil Exporters 3/ 229.5
Brazil 164.4
Hong Kong 150.9
Carib Bnkng Ctrs 4/ 148.3
Taiwan 124.8
Russia 120.1

That's only 1.7 trillion.

70 A tax increase is always bandied about as proof the GOP isn't serious about the debt.

It's such a fucking joke, though.  We know that any tax increase goes to increased spending.  It will never be used to pay down the debt.  Of course, the main problem is that a tax increase would harm the economy and reduce revenues, but even if it didn't, whatever it brings in becomes more pork and graft.

What we actually need is a fundamental change in our federal government's spending.  Virtually all of this mess can be handled by states.  Some states will do a great job replacing the fed, some will do a bad job.  That's on the voters to kick our their local democrats.  We need a transition period and a drastic reduction in federal spending.  We need to admit the baby boomers didn't pay for social security and shouldn't receive benefits except in extreme situations... they let their congress spend their social security on regular pork and bloat... it was generational theft.  They didn't want to pay taxes on massive spending, so they pretended it was OK to give their social security payments over. 

We need to reduce our social entitlements and liabilities by as much as possible.

71

cthulhu mentioned repudiating the debt.  Intriguing as that is, that doesn't address the onehundred trillion or so in unfunded liabilities.

So, I guess another question is this:  If we do repudiate the national debt, what happens to those unfunded liabilities?

 

Oh, and there is no way in hell China could invade California or Hawaii.  They don't have the navy or ships required to transport and supply logistically all the troops needed.  Whoever said that was a possible consequence of repudiating the debt is mistaken on that account.

The global financial market might crash and burn as a result, but you won't see the red chinese flag flying over Los Angeles.  Hollywood excepted...

72 you won't see the red chinese flag flying over Los Angeles.  Hollywood excepted...

That is a long shot but remember, we would piss off the Mexicans (and Canadians too for that matter).  In WWI, the Krauts tried to make a deal with Mexico that if we entered the war, they would invade us with Kraut help.  Their foreign minister, a guy named Zimmermann, put it all down in a nice little telegraph to Mexico that the Brits intercepted and shared with us.  When confronted, Zimmermann did not deny it.   I could see a China - Mexico alliance.

73 I'd say give 'em california, but we'd end up owing 'em even more.

74 It's amazing that the Obama administration has been able to put the United States into thirteen trillion dollars of debt. This has never happened before. No previous government has ever run the deficit this high. Previous governments have taken it to one, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight, nine, ten, eleven, and even twelve trillion dollars of debt, but never thirteen. Where will it go next? Fourteen? I think we should demand that Obama pay back every penny of this thirteen trillion dollars immediately. I have been asked who he should be required to pay back that thirteen trillion dollars to. It's obvious: to the government. The government owes that money to the government, and so ought to pay it back to the government. It's been pointed out to me that the government paying back the government looks a little silly. I agree. I have rethought my position. It is the debt financing on that debt that is the concern. So I call on Obama to write a check immediately to cover the whole amount. The royalties from the sales of his books ought to be more than sufficient to cover the full amount. This is only fair because he was elected on a promise to pay all government debt servicing costs if we let him run the armed forces and let Acorn thugs beat up white grandmothers. It has been brought to my attention that previous presidents ran deficits and had the government pay debt financing through bond sales. I think this is a very sound idea, and I am shocked that Obama was not aware of it. I think Obama should order the Treasury to sell bonds on the good faith of the U.S. to repay the debt financing costs, based of course on royalties from Obama's book sales. It has been brought to my attention that the U.S. Treasury actually has to pay interest to bond holders, who may or may not be American citizens and miight actually be Wall Street bond speculators. This of course must stop. I have received a note that points out that the U.S. Treasury is actually not out of pocket anything so long as the rate of growth in the U.S. economy over the life of the bond exceeds the interest rate on the bond. I must say, that is a very clever arrangement, and I think our government should consider resorting to bond sales on that basis for future debt financing of its activities. Of course, by the end of his first term, Obama should be required to repay the entire amount from the royalties on his book sales, because then the U.S. will be in a profit position.

75  (zfRju)

I'm sure you think you're just terribly amusing, however in reality you come off as an innumerate numbskull.

76 For those who have (rightly) pointed out the huge consequences of repudiation.....it's either take the medicine now and get it over with, or be dosed with partial repudiation (inflation) over a period of time. The former has some advantages -- it catches the rest of the world flatfooted, so they get to eat a chunk of it (payback for saving the world so often in the 20th century); it gets it over with, so that real economic growth can follow; and it immediately throws the political class to the lions.

By contrast, every day we delay means another $83,000 worthless teacher gets that much more of a claim on the efforts of productive members of society. Every day we delay means more looting. Every day we delay further distorts the economy into uselessness.

Besides, why wouldn't I be in favor of a little Chaos....?