1 Speaking from personal experience, if you have to make more than a couple of approaches, you're better off diverting to your alternate.

My sincerest condolences to the families of those killed and the Polish people.

2 "Polish president, top officials killed in plane crash 10 Apr 2010 14:14:33 GMT Source: Reuters * No survivors as plane crashes in thick fog in Russia * Central bank governor and army chief also among dead * Poland to call presidential election * President had been due to attend Katyn memorial (Updates death toll, adds Putin flight, detail) By Lidia Kelly"
"Kaczynski, 60, was a one-time ally of Solidarity hero Lech Walesa and a co-founder of the rightist Law and Justice party with his brother. He resigned from the party when he became president in 2005 but continued to support it. A party source said his twin Jaroslaw Kaczynski was not on board the plane that crashed. Kaczynski's death, along with the that of many high-ranking members of Law and Justice who were also on the plane, at a stroke changes the nature of Polish politics by decimating the opposition."

3 Stolen from previous tread: (by me) From Radio Free Europe's web site Prime Minister Vladimir Putin has been put in charge of a commission investigating the crash, the Kremlin said. Anybody else get a chill down the spine while reading that line?

4 Oh, wow.  This isn't going to spawn any conspiracy theories, no sirree...

BTW, a good friend of mine had great-uncles who were massacred in Katyn.  His family became ardent anti-communists ever since.

5 Notable passengersSome of the info posted in the other thread has been removed from the wiki entry.

6 Prime Minister Vladimir Putin has been put in charge of a commission investigating the crash, the Kremlin said. Well it's settled. Fog.

7 Hmm talked in by a Russian air traffic controlller."A little lower, there you go, doing fine ,whoops..."

8 If I were the Polish authorities, I would insist that Russia allow outside investigators to examine the crash scene on their behalf.  And then I'd have them turn around and ask the U.S. NTSB to lead their investigation.

9 "Well it's settled. Fog." Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar. Russian air traffic control told the plane to divert to Moscow or Minsk because of the fog, and the pilots elected to keep trying to land at Smolensk. One thing - the plane was an old Tupolev, because the Polish government decided it didn't have the money for a new plane to ferry dignitaries around. Can you imagine Nancy Pelosi accepting that excuse?

10
Obama just went to his bunk with a picture of shirtless Putin on horseback.

11 "The crash came as a staggering blow to Poland, wiping out a large swath of the countryÂ’s leadership, including the commanders of all four branches of the military, the head of the central bank, the president and many of his top advisors."

12 Too soon?

13 Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar. Russian air traffic control told the plane to divert to Moscow or Minsk because of the fog, and the pilots elected to keep trying to land at Smolensk.

While I agree with you here, in the long run that won't matter.  I guarantee you, this will be painted by many as a full-blown KGB operation before the year is over.

14 Earlier they were saying that somebody missed the plane. 

15 Yeah, the Polish Air Force had the same problems in 1939. Four of us  couldn't fly planes and change light bulbs at the same time.

16 "One thing - the plane was an old Tupolev, because the Polish government decided it didn't have the money for a new plane to ferry dignitaries around" Posted by: Random Well, now they'll call Boeing and ask for a catalog. Timing is important in comedy, too.

17 "While I agree with you here, in the long run that won't matter. I guarantee you, this will be painted by many as a full-blown KGB operation before the year is over." If the Russians have any sense, they will invite in the NTSB to refute conspiracy theories, but I bet they won't - the famous Russian xenophobia will kick in, and they'll insist on doing the investigation themselves.

18 15 You assholes.

19 Oh great, it's ITzbJ again, fresh off his Bund meeting and ready to take some whacks at the Poles this time.

What's on tomorrow's agenda? Gypsies?

20

12 Too soon?

Hell yes.  The Polish people just lost their top government and military personnel.  Don't be dickheads about this.

/Prayers for the families of the dead and the Polish people.

21 10
Obama just went to his bunk with a picture of shirtless Putin on horseback.

Posted by: IreneFingIrene at April 10, 2010 10:53 AM (MFQJZ)

LMAO. Thanks!

22 What kind of asshole pilot insists on landing in zero visibility? And what kind of cheapshit country doesn't have an ILS system at every major or military airfield? Planes land in fog thousands of times per year all over the world. WTF?

23 It's sad, planes crash all the time, we should focus on the lives lost, but I still say it was THOSE CRAZY RUSSIANS!!! Why? Easier to cause a plane crash than spray them with radioactive poison right?

24 So what is Poland's current treaty status with the Ukraine and the Baltic Republics?

I don't think even Putin would make this big of a play...but if he had to pick a group of politicians to kill...this would be them...

25 The entire leadership on one plane? At gunpoint?

26 22, The lingering effects of Communism persist for quite some time.

27 (ITzbJ)Deserve banning.

28 I wonder what Vaclav Havel must be thinking about now.

29 I would say the Russians.  My grandparents would say the same thing with some really foul Russian curses.  Condolences and prayers for Poland and the families of the dead. 

30 Companies have limits on how many senior folks can be on the same plane at the same time. Now Poland will google that, too.

31 "And what kind of cheapshit country doesn't have an ILS system at every major or military airfield?" Russia, I bet. They were trying to land at a military airport - and the Russian military has very little money. I bet only the major civilian airports in Russia have ILS.

32

If the Russians have any sense, they will invite in the NTSB to refute conspiracy theories, but I bet they won't - the famous Russian xenophobia will kick in, and they'll insist on doing the investigation themselves.

This is the same country that wouldn't accept outside help when a bunch of their sailors were slowly suffocating in the Kursk.  They won't ask, and the Poles know that the U.S. doesn't have the stones to insist. 

Condolences to the Poles.

33 Gypsies? Hmmmm, we'll have to give that one some thought.

34

Man they lost a lot of leadership there. .My heart goes out to them. And for those here who wish to crack jokes about Poland right now, I'll remind you that they erected a statue of Ronald Reagan in their capitol city to honor him and his efforts at making them a free people again. Not to mention they are a revered ally in our war on terror and have lost a lot of good men in Iraq and Afghanistan too.

Have a little respect for our Polish allies and friends.

35 34, Indeed so.

36 Posted by: Atrollpasinthru at April 10, 2010 11:11 AM (ITzbJ)

Better known as "Dianne and Brian".

37 Has Easy Bake said anything about it yet?

38 Wow, this is an incredible tragedy.  Poland has been such a great ally to the U.S.  What an unbelievable loss.  My thoughts and prayers are with the Polish people.

39

My deepest condolences to the Polish people.  This was a very, very heavy blow made all the worse by the timing.

 

As for those who would crack Polish jokes -- sod the fuck off assholes!  You show your ignorance, and it is astounding.

40 Very sad.  Prayers for the victims, their families, and the Polish people. 

41 34 And Blazer, well said.

42 What a stunning loss for a great country.

43

Okay, Blazer, you're right. We feel badly now. Well, not really. But you are one of the few dimwits here whose opinion we respect.  So we'll cool it for now.

Will five minutes of mourning suffice?

44 Have a little respect for our Polish allies and friends.

Posted by: Blazer at April 10, 2010 11:13 AM

I agree.  It only makes us and the percson making the stupid joke look ignorant and uncaring.  Even the Socialist Narcissist-in-Chief Obama has more class than that, and that's saying something.  You can read his statement here...http://tinyurl.com/y9ll7df

45 The Poles deserved a better break than this.

46 Blazer:  Man they lost a lot of leadership there. .My heart goes out to them. And for those here who wish to crack jokes about Poland right now, I'll remind you that they erected a statue of Ronald Reagan in their capitol city to honor him and his efforts at making them a free people again. Not to mention they are a revered ally in our war on terror and have lost a lot of good men in Iraq and Afghanistan too.

Hear, hear.  Poland is and has been one of our most loyal allies (in spite of Obama's fecklessness).

47 ok, 43, (ITzbJ), from now on nothing you say, no matter what, will be important. Insect.

48 I agree with Blazer.  While the Poles have had some dark moments in their history, for the most part they have been a gallant, and even indispensible ally of the West in general and the U.S. in particular.  Many don't realize how instrumental they were in stopping the spread of Islam into Europe by their heroism at the Siege of Vienna.  They're worthy of our respect.

49

The Poles just had an entire political faction wiped out while flying a Russian plane in Russia.  The crash will be investigated by Russians, headed by Putin.  The same Putin whose political adversaries keep coming down with unlucky fatal accidents involving freak circumstances and exotic radioactive isotope poisonings.  It happened just after the U.S. sold out Poland and the Czech Republic, and signaled that even attacking the U.S. directly with biological and chemical attacks wouldn't trigger a WMD response (and if that's our stance on our own country, imagine what you can do to our allies).  Nothing at all suspicious about the incident whatsoever.  Just bad luck. 

The Czech Republic leadership might want to start carrying lucky rabbits' feet that aren't unluckily laced with Polonium-210 or have passive transceivers planted on them.  Just sayin'.

50 That's right, they were a staunch ally. On the ground with us. So, naturally, Toonces took missile defense off the table.

51

Has Easy Bake said anything about it yet?

Posted by: eman at April 10, 2010 11:16 AM (QZA9F)

President Barack Obama called the death of Kaczynski and other senior government officials "devastating to Poland, to the United States, and to the world" and said that "Today, there are heavy hearts across America. The United States cherishes its deep and abiding bonds with the people of Poland. Those bonds are represented in the strength of our alliance, the friendships among our people, and the extraordinary contributions of Polish-Americans who have helped to shape our nation." in a statement released by the White House.  Philip Crowley, Assistant Secretary for the U.S. State Department Public Affairs office called the crash a horrible tragedy for Poland and extended his deepest condolences on behalf of the United States.
-------

Another pile of crap from the sack o' shit in chief.

52

47  I would have said "pig", but pigs are useful and intelligent creatures.

Hell, calling it an insect is too harsh a slam on bugs.

53 As far as letting the US National Transportation Safety Board in to do the investigation, what makes you think our current commie president hasn't filled that agency with fellow commies? 

54 Five bucks says Easy Bake can't find Poland on a map.

55 Another pile of crap from the sack o' shit in chief.

Posted by: Ed Anger at April 10, 2010 11:25 AM (7+pP9)

Yeah, lemme twist that knife I put in your back,when I canceled the deployment of the missile shield wihtout even consulting you, suckas.

56
Well it's settled. Fog.

Just turned on the TV and heard this, glad I'm not the only one who's first thought was "Putin".  Wonder what the Poles were doing that got them whacked.

They're good people, and a damn good ally.

57 53  Heh, yeah, I have a very chill feeling that this misfortunate event wasn't all that horrific for him and his cronies.  The Poles were staunch allies, and their president was firmly devoted to freedom -- not the kind of people dear leader exactly likes.

58

To get back to the Ronald Reagan thing, Poland suffered horribly at the hands of both Germany and the Russians last century. A few years ago when I read the story of them erecting the Reagan statue in Warsaw to honor him it brought tears to my eyes. Any other European country ever erect a statue of an American president to honor him ?



"Reagan was the person who defeated the communists and opened the way for freedom in Poland," Janusz Dorosiewicz said. "The statue is a way for his legacy to live on."

59 Lighten-up, Jane. Go kill cute, adorable and cuddly, little bunnies. You'll feel better.

60 This is one of those "center does not hold" stories.

61 sincere condolences to the people of a brave nation that is Poland. I pray that they remain a free people , hard won over the years.

62 Maybe we should make Poland the 58th State.

63 I guarantee you, this will be painted by many as a full-blown KGB operation before the year is over.

Posted by: Diane at April 10, 2010 10:54 AM (4T2i7)

Hell I did that two threads ago.

As for Polish jokes, yeah, it's too soon.

^{They didn't really get out and push.}

64

59  FOAD bitch.  My hunting appalls you?  You're bigotry and stupidity disgusts me.

I at least respect what I kill, and have the salt to kill it in the first place.  You're a miserable turd with no respect for anything...and definitely no salt.

65 Being libtards is one thing.What do these fuckers have against the Poles?Ban those fuckers,they deserve it.

66 Nice country you Poles got there.  Be a shame if somethin' was to happen to it.

67 63, Couldn't resist, could you?

68 >>Any other European country ever erect a statue of an American president to honor him ?<<


No, but there was that 43-inch tall statue of Obama in Indonesia.  That they had to take down.  But otherwise, no.

69 Not for nothing,but I know people who,when they are flying somewhere,the husband and one kid will take one flight and the wife and another kid will take a seperate flight. Why would they put so many high level people on one plane?

70

I'd like to remind people that these Polish dignataries were on their way to honor the 20,000 Polish people massacred by Stalin's secret police in 1940.  

71 Thank you Blazer.

72 Aw, Janey is grumpy this morning. he he he he

73 who are the strongest leaders left? do they have a chance of fighting against anyone that might  attempt to take advantage at this time?

74 Lets see... The Queen and Protector of Poland is the Black Madonna of Częstochowa... so... Aturdpasinthru is RAAACISSST!

75

No, just disgusted by an stupid person with an obvious ignorance of both history and current events.

Oh, and did I mention crassness as well as being clueless? 

76 74  This pretty much wipes out the party that was the most pro-American and pro-freedom I believe.

77

Jane,

a very sad time indeed.

78 Of the 6 million Jews killed by the Nazis, 3 million were Polish.  The Russians also  killed 20,000 of the top Polish leadership; Professors, Military Officers, Priests, Doctors, Lawyers. 

I can't believe this is going on again.  If not a conspiracy, I am going to start believing in curses, although I don't know what the Poles could have done to deserve their history.

Requiescat in Pace

79

Whoa ...., Crass? Clueless? Bigot? Ignorant? (redundant) Stupid? (more redundancy)

Otherwise, not bad, Janey. I admire a woman who has, um, "salt". LOL

80 >>Any other European country ever erect a statue of an American president to honor him ?<<

There's an FDR statue in London and one of Truman in Greece, although that one keeps getting vandalized by communists (Truman is honored for helping the Greeks defeat a communist takeover)

81

Bloody hell; is there a country with worse luck than Poland?

Famine, betrayed by England, France, and the USSR in WWII, invaded, handed over to the Soviet repression after WWII, Obama pulling the rug out from under them... and now just when a right-leaning government is starting to get their economy on track, this plane crash.

Little known fact- Poland was the only country conquered by the Nazis in WWII that didn't surrender politically.  After being defeated by the Germans and Russians (thanks in part to England's refusal to uphold it's treaty obligation to defend Poland), they formed a government in exile and continued to fight.

82 Sincere condolences on this occasion of their very tragic loss.

83 "56
Well it's settled. Fog.

Just turned on the TV and heard this, glad I'm not the only one who's first thought was "Putin".  Wonder what the Poles were doing that got them whacked.

They're good people, and a damn good ally.

Posted by: Dang Straights at April 10, 2010 11:29 AM (67pfW)"

A friend of mine with Polish relatives was just telling me that the economy of Poland is booming in comparison to the other EU countries.  She is also talking about Greece and what a mess it is and how they need to figure out a way to fix it and how she thinks both Poland and Germany didn't want to fix it.   She's in finance and after a while you tune her out....

84 Janey, to follow up on my last thought, will you be my mommy?

85 "71

I'd like to remind people that these Polish dignataries were on their way to honor the 20,000 Polish people massacred by Stalin's secret police in 1940.  

Posted by: Deanna at April 10, 2010 11:39 AM (ZzV20)"

But according to the NYT's this guy wasn't going to the ceremony with Vlad, he was on his way to a different ceremony in the little town.  Can anyone confirm if this is correct?

the PM flew to Russia on a different plane to partake in the Vlad ceremony

86

Just remember that the accounts of this crash are coming from the Russian news agency.  They only have a few more grains of integrity than American news agencies.

87 Posted by: Boots at April 10, 2010 11:36 AM (06JTY)

doesn't he have a few bridges around the country named in his honor?

88
There's an FDR statue in London and one of Truman in Greece, although that one keeps getting vandalized by communists (Truman is honored for helping the Greeks defeat a communist takeover)

Posted by: Jmchez at April 10, 2010 11:57 AM (TC43n)

Thats cool, I didnt know that.

89 #34 said it all.

Russia has already tried to sweep the Katyn Massacre under the rug of history.  Not to mention their centuries long struggle to wipe out and consume Poland.  Yeah, it doesn't take much to make a conspiracy theory here.

90 I just saw this on Fox and immediately put on my handy tinfoil hat.  I'm sorry, but Putin was the very first thing that came to mind.

My heartfelt condolences and prayers to our friends in Poland. 

91 Nothing like a terrible tragedy to bring out the "best" in our libtard trolls. 

92 Do all countries do this?   I mean it seems like a laundry list of the most important people in their conservative lech walesa party, why would they all take the same plane?  

93

There are also statues to FDR and George Washington in Paris.

**********************

In the Eighties, the Russians were behind the assasination of Mohammed Zia al-Huq, then president of Pakistan.  At the time, the Russians were waging war in Afghanistan, and Zia al-Huq was supporting the "resistance", i.e, the Mujahadeen.  It was not unknown for Russian air raids to hit Pakistan territory.  Sound familiar?

Zia al-Huq was flying somewhere in a US C-130 when he got blown up.

94 9 How do you know what the air traffic controller said? Were you listening in?

95 Not to make a political cheap shot, but just saw this and thought "of course":

Over at the WSJ, they have a list of condolences from world leaders. All the other nations — France, Britain, Russia, Germany, etc have quotes from their heads of state — Cameron, Merkel, Medvedez, etc.

The U.S. comments is from a State Dept. spokesman.

Can I finish my waffle?!

96 Photos

97 "Statement by President Obama on the death of Polish President Lech Kaczynski and those traveling with him

Today, I called Polish Prime Minister Tusk to express Michelle's and my deepest condolences to the people of Poland on the tragic deaths this morning of President Lech Kaczynski, First Lady Maria Kaczynski, and all who were traveling with them to commemorate the 70th anniversary of the Katyn massacre.  Our thoughts and prayers are with the Kaczynski family, the loved ones of those killed in this tragic plane crash, and the Polish nation.

TodayÂ’s loss is devastating to Poland, to the United States, and to the world.  President Kaczynski was a distinguished statesman who played a key role in the Solidarity movement, and he was widely admired in the United States as a leader dedicated to advancing freedom and human dignity.  With him were many of PolandÂ’s most distinguished civilian and military leaders who have helped to shape PolandÂ’s inspiring democratic transformation.  We join all the people of Poland in mourning their passing.

Today, there are heavy hearts across America.  The United States cherishes its deep and abiding bonds with the people of Poland.  Those bonds are represented in the strength of our alliance, the friendships among our people, and the extraordinary contributions of Polish-Americans who have helped to shape our nation.

It is a testament to the strength of the Polish people that those who were lost were travelling to commemorate a devastating massacre of World War II as the leaders of a strong, vibrant, and free Poland.  That strength will ensure that Poland emerges from the depths of this unthinkable tragedy, and that the legacy of the leaders who died today will be a light that continues to guide Poland – and the world – in the direction of human progress"

98 45 The Poles deserved a better break than this.

Posted by: eman at April 10, 2010 11:21 AM (QZA9F)

This echoes my sentiments perfectly.

99 what are the polish people saying on their blogs?

100

I'm not trying to go conspiracy with this, but this *is* Putin, Russia, and the plane just fucking fell apart while circling the runway? 

I mean I know Poles are the butt of many a joke about intelligence, but they're not really dumb.  I can't believe they'd put most of their leadership on such a substandard plane.  I don't care if the plane was 20 something years old, we have aircraft in our military inventory much older.

Meh, I guess I'm just still in shock.

101

First thing I thought of when I just saw this on the Fox page was Russian involvement. How can you not with the history there?

I'm not Polish, but I have a real protective feeling for them. They've been screwed over so many times by big power states. And they saved Western Civilization from the Muslims at Vienna! They did.

We should volunteer to send the NTSB over there to investigate, or act in an advisory capacity.

102 I'm not trying to go conspiracy with this, but this *is* Putin, Russia, and the plane just fucking fell apart while circling the runway?

Doubt it fell apart.

Was probably a controlled flight into terrain. Depending on the Russians to maintain a working ILS was the pilot's error, compounded by not throwing in his hand and diverting.

The pilot should have diverted, even it it would have cost him his job. He thought he could land it, and thought wrong.

103 Yeah that  Putin fog ?  Prayers for all.. I mean ALL.

104 What a tragedy. My heart and my prayers go out to the Polish people who have always been strong allies to America.

105 Oh and whose idea was it to put ALL the heads of state on one airplane? 

106 We lived in Warsaw for the past two years. The Poles have been staunch allies for a long time-since the Revolutionary war with both Pilsudski and Kosciuski, who fought for us. The Poles don't import labor, because there are no jobs beneath them. They are willing to work. They have excellent schools, thanks in great part to Kaczynski and his brother, who helped to increase standards in science and math, and retain religious studies. And you can walk at night, downtown, and not be harmed. We found this out when our child was lost. She returned unharmed, seven hours later. The Polish police went out in force to help find her, but no one ever tried to harm her. Can that be said for major cities in the US? This is so tragic, and heartrending, because Poland is trying so desperately to move forward from their oppressed past, and make something of themselves. So please pray for them as they make hard decisions about leadership. And to those who joke about this, you are sick, disgusting jerks. Please go elsewhere with your vileness.

107 #15: You're a real piece of shit.  Please go blow your brains out - or what passes for your brain.  FUCKING COCKSUCKER

108 Actually Brian and Diane need to both blow their fucking brains out.  Gut shot with a .22 would be better tho.

109

But according to the NYT's this guy wasn't going to the ceremony with Vlad, he was on his way to a different ceremony in the little town.  Can anyone confirm if this is correct?

the PM flew to Russia on a different plane to partake in the Vlad ceremony

Posted by: curious at April 10, 2010 12:08 PM

Putin and the PM Tusk attended a ceremony together at the site on Wednesday.  Not sure why Kaczynski chose to go today instead. The actual massacre happened over many days in April, 1940.  The chief executioner for the NKVD perssonally shot over 6,000, he later died of  supposed "suicide."

110 Jebus. The last Polish president-in-exile from WWII was on the plane. He was 90.

111 I question the timing.

112 Even if Putin didn't engineer this, it sure turned out nice for him, didn't it?

113 Oops. The last president in exile served in 1989-1990. Poland had a government in exile based in London throughout the Cold War.

114 Will America Fall Without a fight? Visit The Freemen Institute and start protecting your freedoms. www.freemeninstitute.com

115 Dave in Texas:  If you can e-mail me ITzbJ's IP address, I'd be happy to find out his location.  If he lives near me, I can pay him a visit, or otherwise I'm sure one of the other morons would be more than willing to do so.

116 Do we think Toones shows for the funeral - or does he send an assistant sec of state.

117

If he lives near me, I can pay him a visit, or otherwise I'm sure one of the other morons would be more than willing to do so.

Take a couple of beefy Polish dockworkers with you. Then we can ask how many Poles it takes to screw an asshole into the ground.

118

How many Poles does it take to unscrew ITzbJ's head?

If female, one.  If male, it's a trick question, because ITzbJ would never have the balls to go near one.

119

What's the difference between ITzbJ and Lech Kaczinski?

Lech Kaczinski has a higher testosterone level, even when dead.

120 I'm troubled by this.  This one aircraft took out leaders in Polish banking, military and even the church.  Seems strange.

121

What do ITzbJ and Vladimir Putin have in common?

They both fantasize about getting Poles in a horizontal position.

122

Help us Alex Jones, you're our only hope. 

123

What do ITzbJ, Hitler, Stalin, and Putin all have in common?

They all liked smoking Poles.

124

@58: "Any other European country ever erect a statue of an American president to honor him ?"

Don't the Albanians have one of Dubya? 

125

What does ITzbJ do to small Polish children?

He molests them, just like any other children.

(Not funny, just true).

126

This is so tragic.  Thoughts and prayers are with the Polish nation. 

The resident troll making jokes:  have you no shame?   The Poles are a great people who value freedom, as they have fought so hard to get it.   It's comments such as yours that prove that the left are nothing but a bunch of racist, whining assholes who think they're funny.     FOAD, lightning d-head.

127

Why do Poles' names all end in ski?

Because they like taking little pansies like ITzbJ, cutting them down the middle, strapping each half to their feet, and using them as skis.

128

127:  Just so you know, I'm making fun of ITzbJ, not Poles.  I'm using the format of his own Polish jokes to make a bitch out of him.

Yes, I know about the proud heritage of the Polish nation.  I know about how they turned the tide at Vienna, saving Austria and the rest of Europe from Islam, and, sadly, how the Hapsburgs returned the favor by joining with Russia and Prussia in dismantling that nation.  I know about how Poles have been found fighting for freedom worldwide, such as in the American Revolution, and I know about how they were the first country to win a war against the USSR, in 1920.  And I was personally inspired by Lech Walesa in the Seventies and Eighties.  I appreciate also the Poles' support for America in the Iraq War.

129 116 Dave in Texas:  If you can e-mail me ITzbJ's IP address, I'd be happy to find out his location.  If he lives near me, I can pay him a visit, or otherwise I'm sure one of the other morons would be more than willing to do so.

Posted by: Ken at April 10, 2010 03:23 PM (EawMs)

 

LOL - Yeah, right. Get in line, tough guys. Three creeps from KOS already showed up here. Funny thing, when I answered the door, they wussied out on me. Dianne offered them coffee. But they didn't want to hang around. I can't imagine why. LOL

Hey look> I'm trembling-bling-bling-bling!!!!

To quote Bugs Bunny, "What a maroon! he he he he"< That's a quote.

130

What's the difference between Poles and ITzbJ?

Poles really are tough guys.

131

What do Dianne and Poles have in common?

They're both fucking wildly in Brian's bed while he makes clever wannabe tough guy comments on his computer.

132

What's the difference between "It'z B.J.!" and a shit left by a Pole? 

The Pole doesn't step on his shit.  And that's the only difference.

133 I believe the reason why Lech Kaczynski (the Polish president) and his group did not attend the same ceremony as Putin is that Putin is the prime minister of Russia, so his "opposite number" in the Polish government is Donald Tusk - the Polish prime minister.  Tusk and Putin attended the same ceremony.

I can't explain why all these dignitaries were together on the same plane, but there are some pretty severe consequences for Poland internally, since many of the politicians on this flight were generally in opposition to former Polish communists and their allies - so now a shift to the left in Poland is likely.  Donald Tusk, whose political party opposes that of Lech Kaczynski, has been called the Polish Obama by many Polish bloggers and pundits.

134 My condolences to the Poles.  You can also add me to the list of people who immediately thought "Putin/KGB" when hearing about a polish government flight crashing in Russia.

Also, how come we don't have quality trolls anymore?  We used to have some that provided good sport.  The recent ones, like ITzbJ just come off as little bigoted bitchy douchesacks.

135

.. Poles really are tough guys ..

When my son was in Iraq, he said of all our allies there, the only ones who came "to bring the heat" as he put it, were the Brits, the Aussies and the Poles.

136 I'm sorry, but I can't imagine how you could possibly NOT think about Putin. If it happened in Germany I would still think about Putin. I don't think it's tin foil hat time. It's obvious. That has to be considered a possibility. Why on Earth wouldn't it be? The only one that might have done something about it left office 13 months ago. It's a free-for-all in the world now. Everyone knows it. If you don't think Putin is a possibility you haven't been paying attention.

137 Just so you know, I'm making fun of ITzbJ, not Poles.  I'm using the format of his own Polish jokes to make a bitch out of him.

What you're doing is feeding the troll.

138
http://tinyurl.com/y23flev

139 The MSM will no doubt blame the Tea Party for this tragedy with some offhand remark or two...

140 If the Russians have any sense, they will invite in the NTSB to refute conspiracy theories, but I bet they won't - the famous Russian xenophobia will kick in, and they'll insist on doing the investigation themselves.

Posted by: Random at April 10, 2010 10:58 AM (Hu/Da) 

The President of their country has been killed in a nation with a long history of enmity for them.  It seems to me that the government of Poland would have every right to demand an investigation by someone they trust, no matter what the Russians think.

141 Fine week for Puty: Bend Obama over with a nuke treaty, Kyrgyzstan and Poland brought back to the fold... Well played.

142 A bit late to the game, but for any morons interested, Andrzej Wajda's 2008 movie "Katyn" is available on Youtube, with English subtitles. For the curious, Wajda is arguably the greatest living movie director. As a teenager, was in the Polish resistance and his father was one of the Polish officers murdered at Katyn. "Katyn" was nominated for best foreign picture in 2008, but didn't win.

143

Katyn is still a horrible wound that may never heal.  The NKVD murdered thousands of Polish POWs instead of moving them away from the German invasion or letting them be captured by the Germans.  When the Germans found the scene of the atrocity, they brought in one American POW, a Colonel, to be their witness.  Katyn still ended up an almost unknown footnote to the litany of atrocities committed in WWII by such as Germany, the USSR, and Japan.

Lets send messages of condolence to the Polish embassy in DC.  There are many families in Poland who are heart broken by this tragedy who need to know many people around the world care.  And for those who can, near Baltimore, MD's inner harbor is a memorial to the Katyn Forest Massacre.  Might want to leave memorials there.

Prudence dictates we jump to no conclusions as of yet.  Be nice if the NTSB could get invovled but it was a Russian jetliner and not a Boeing.  It would fall to Poland and how they request access to the investigation.

 

144

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145

This might not have been an accident.

146 This might not have been an accident.

147 This might not have been an accident

148 There are many more. Her is a partial list: http://tiny.cc/1a42p

149 There's something not right about this, not right at all. What with the current US government reducing its influence in eastern Europe even as Russia increases its own sway there and elsewhere, it's just waaaay too much of a coincidence that a plane should suddenly drop from the sky and decapitate Poland with a single stroke. If the Russians didn't have a hand in it directly, you can bet they're salivating at the prospect of what comes next. I get the uneasy sensation that it's not just the people of Poland we need to be praying for.

150

Coincidences do occur. However one must consider the circumstances and the actors involved. The trip to Katyn was to be a rememberance of a Russian massacre of to Polish intellectuals, half their top officers, reporters, POW's and thousands of troops. The rememberance didn't happen. Instead we had a plane crash that nearly decapited the Polish government and did decapitate the military. Quite a coincidence. To me that is a normal day at the office for the lead crash investigator Putin.

For those of you who think this is an accident, I have one question - why? Why do these people deserve the benefit of the doubt? Especially given their history of creative assassination and the history/irony involved here? I wonder what the Poles think? Sadly we will never know. CNN already told me some unseen Poles who we are told they interviewed think it was an accident. I don't expect anything better from any of the other news outlets.

I am open to non-Russian supplied evidence to prove me wrong. But honestly I will always doubt Russian eveidence. They are known liars and assassins. They also happen to control the media, the investigators and the investigation (to be led by Putin).

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152

Has it occurred to any of you loony conspiracy theorists that if foul play was at work there, and I'm not suggesting that it was, it is more likely that Islamic terrorists, rather than the Russians were the culprits there? Another reason why Putin wants it to be investigated by his people.

Think about it: Poland sent troops to support us in the Middle East. So did Spain, Great Britain, Germany and Italy. 

 Remember the successful reprisals against Spain? The nearly successful reprisals against Great Britain and Italy, and the badly botched, attempted reprisals against Germany? Spain and Italy were intimidated. Germany and the UK were not. (As usual.)

Well, duh.

153

Addendum to Post #156

Never mind that Islamic terrorist groups in Kazakhstan and Uzbekistan would have more to gain by putting suspicion on Russia and by turning world opinion against Russians than the Russians would gain by assassinating the leaders of Poland.

(Which would be why the terrorists would not take credit for it.)

BTW, Contrary to what you loonies theorized, the Russians had nothing, absolutely nothing to gain by assassinating the leaders of Poland. That was one of the screwiest notions that I have ever read here.

Although I'm still inclined to suspect that it was a horrible, sad and tragic accident. Nothing more.

154 Why can't you krazy konservatives see it had to be Islamic terrorists that did it? Islamic terrorists can run around anywhere in Russia, the country is so liberal and open. Russia is even more politically correct than the US.  I mean geez, there is zero racial, ethnic, or religious profiling in the USSR Russia. It isn't like there's some ingrained history of secret police and monitoring people, like with Bu$h.

155 The presidential plane was fully overhauled in December, the general director of the Aviakor aviation maintenance plant in Samara, Russia told Rossiya-24. The plant repaired the plane's three engines, retrofitted electronic and navigation equipment and updated the interior, Alexei Gusev said. He said there could be no doubts that the plane was flightworthy.

156

If you're inclined to be cynical about the outcome of an inquiry by Putin's people, you should be cynical because they're such screw-ups, not because they're intentionally disingenuous. After four airliner crashes in Russia, the Bush Administration tried to get the Russians to set up an equivalent of the FAA, only to meet resistance and incompetence on a massive scale, much to their exasperation. So Russia doesn't have an equivalent of the FAA.

Contrary to the hype that you get out of Hollywood (e.g., James Bond Movies), Russia's "intelligence" and investigative agencies (e.g., currently their FSB, formerly their KGB)  have always been largely comprised of bumbling, incompetent twits, who are rank amateurs, as compared to France's DCRI (DGSE), Great Britain's MI5 and the USA's CIA, which are the finest in the world.  An incompetence in Russia that trickles down to all of their police/investigative agencies at all levels of their sloppy (and in some cases so goofy as to be amusing) bureaucracies. 

But then, you need to recognize that, for many years, the conditions in Russia have been such that, for example, the Chevy Vega was built better than Russian submarines were, giving rise to speculation that maybe Russian submarines were built in the Yugo factory in Yugoslavia.

Suffice to say, Hollywood always gave too much credit to the Russians.

157 """  Eternal rest grant unto them, O Lord, and let perpetual light shine upon them. May the souls of the faithful departed, through the mercy of God, rest in peace. Amen."   

LINK

158

Oh hey, I got a Polak joke for yaz:  The Poles broke the Enigma code, with slide-rules, note pads and an abacus, and passed the secret (called "The Bomb") through France to the Brits. Yes, math was required. Dumb, huh.

This would be a serendipitious opportunity to revoke our policy on anti-missile defense in Eastern Europe. Come to think of it, also a good time for a few billion in military and institutional aid, the gift of some nice planes and ATC systems, joint NATO maneuvers with the Poles in all known vulnerable invasion routes, a fleet demonstration off the coast with some Aegis cruisers, a carrier, and USS New Jersey even if we have to tow her in. By late this morning Poland should be covered by an umbrella of US airpower, highly visible and in a little bit of a bad mood.

A national day of prayer might be nice, and some very splashy public shows of solidarnosc, with a reminder of how many American names end in ski.

I'll bet those unsuspecting congressmen have gone back to answering their phones by now, just saying.

159 Oh yeah, and a fresh translation of "Reset."

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