1 PA

I think that your acceptance of "some" government stimulus as a good thing is the slippery slope that has us sliding faster and faster into the cesspool that is Greece.

No spending by government is as efficient as the spending of the people!

2
You know what we need?  Higher taxes, more government spending, more lies from democrats about said taxation and spending, more tax-payer funded union bailouts, and more Fannie and Freddie-government financial regulation.

That should to the trick.

3 Actually, I'd like a cite where Keynesian economics has spurred a recovery.  There are instances where locally it has made a diference, such as where TVA projects were built, but only when the overall economy (macro) was well.

4

What are they taking about things are just rosy

May 27 (Bloomberg) -- U.S. stock-index futures maintained gains even after government data showed the economy grew at a slower pace than previously calculated in the first quarter and jobless claims fell less than economists estimated.

The economy is slowing and jobless claims fell less than expected estimated. Another stimulus ought to do the trick

5 "...the law of supply and demand is irrelevant to financial markets. There are no producers and consumers in financial markets, just investors. So there are no balancing forces on price. The law of supply and demand reigns at the shopping mall because consumers are pretty certain of their needs and resources, so they can reason their way through the decision process. But investors are uncertain because they have no basis for deciding a fair price. In the financial context, knowing what you think is not enough; you have to try to guess what everyone else will think. It's not easy to use reason to figure that out. When everyone faces this dilemma, the result is herding." -- The Elliott Wave Theorist, January 2008

6

ItÂ’s frightening," said Professor Tim Congdon from International Monetary Research. "The plunge in M3 has no precedent since the Great Depression.

Obviously, Tim Congdon, International Monetary Reasearch and the plunge in M3 are all racist.

Now let me finish my waffle and plug the damn hole, crackers!

7
Keynesian magic works!  It works!  This is the Tom Friedman economy, suckas.
We can spend our way to social justice and unicorns.  Liberty is over-rated anyway.

8 I don't believe in stimulus spending.It would have been nice though to have actually bought something with that money since the gov't was determined to spend it.Even FDR used recovery funds to build warships and powerplants,which are at least of some use.We could have bought more F-22's and warships and yeah how about some nuclear powerplants....

9 There are instances where locally it has made a diference, such as where TVA projects were built, but only when the overall economy (macro) was well.

Refresh my memory...was TVA state or federal funding?

10

Quitters!  The stimulus plan is going to kick in any day now, then everyone will get a big dose of "I told you this would work"       

Any day now.

 

Pretty soon.

 

Maybe tomorrow.  Or next week.

 

Any day.

11 In a deflationary depression, cash is king, prime minister and president all rolled into one. Goods, services and assets that were relatively expensive can be had for "a song."   "A dollar can buy twice as much property, commodities and stock as it could at the times of the most extreme stock, property and commodity prices during 2005-2007. In other words, every dollar is twice as valuable as it was just a few months ago." Bob Prechter, August 2009

12 The policy has not failed.  It's doing to us excactly what it is supposed to do. 

13 I think that your acceptance of "some" government stimulus...

Keynesian "spend" theory only works for normal business cycle recessions.  It was NEVER an appropriate response for this situation.

14 In order to have a "double dip" you have to believe that there was actually and increase somewhere. I don't believe a single number this group of lying jackals has released.

As for the TVA example given above for a possible local project that "worked", read  The Forgotten Man.  The TVA project actually started as a private project that the government "nationalized".

I still say that it is possible for us to recover if the Republicans take back at least the House and then turn around and undo some of this crap and prevent it from going any further.

If they don't take back the House or if they do, and then revert to big government RINOs and wimps we are doomed.

15

 "The grave error all the Obama administration wonks made was in treating this recession/depression like previous ones where some Keynesian government largess DOES give things a kickstart. Keynes was not entirely wrong on that count, but even his writings suggest he'd have realized our current situation was atypical; not one that could be easily Bondo'd over by stock/naive "spending" prescriptions."

 In defense of Keynes, he advocated stockpiling budget surpluses and unleashing them during sharp economic downturns. The spending orgies he prescribed would have caused misallocations and stalled long term economic growth to be sure, but at least they would have been paid for.    

16 Beck claims that the Kenyan imbecile is sending a special committee to PR to investigate PR becoming the 58th welfare state.
Yippee!

17 Short  and Long Run   numb nutz!!

18

What?? No top headlines thread?? I got a good one today...

8 months after arrest, a serene life for Polanski Published: 5/27/10, 8:45 AM EDT
By BRADLEY S. KLAPPER

GSTAAD, Switzerland (AP) - The chalet doors and windows are wide open. Deck chairs are set up on the patio and the garden is strewn with daffodils and wild flowers.

Roman Polanski appears to be leading a charmed existence under house arrest in the luxury resort of Gstaad, as he awaits word from Swiss authorities on whether he'll be extradited to the United States for raping a 13-year-old girl in 1977.

And he may not be going anywhere soon.

Eight months after his arrest, the Swiss Justice Ministry still won't say when it will decide whether the 76-year-old director should be sent back to Los Angeles to face sentencing for unlawful sexual intercourse. And officials won't even say what the holdup is.

 

19
This is where I live, bitches.  You have to suck the big Keynesian plastic while Glenda rubs between my toes.

20 Fox is saying that BP has successfully stopped the oil spill using the topkill method.

I guess Baraq "Plug the damn hole!" 0bama has earned that long-delayed vacation.

21 I would love to cash out of our 401k's.  But there is no way the Wife and I are going to give the Fed 40% of that much money in taxes and penalties.

22

 

"Our enemy is not terrorism, because terrorism is but a tactic. Our enemy is not terror, because terror is a state of mind, and as Americans we refuse to live in fear. Nor do we describe our enemy as jihadists or Islamists, because jihad is a holy struggle, a legitimate tenet of Islam," Brennan said.

He said we are at war with al-Qaida and its terrorist affiliates.

23 The bottom line is Obama and his administration told the American taxpayers and business owners, I know best how to spend your money, you don't.  Give me your fucking money and I'll spend it my way.  Dumbass Ovomit voters gave the store away.  We're all fucked, a year from now there will be riots in every major city.  50% or more of your paycheck will be going directly to the federal government.  Have a great future Americka.

24

I guess Baraq "Plug the damn hole!" 0bama has earned that long-delayed vacation.

Damn straight.

You can thank me any time.

25 22 What a fucking asshole.

26
This is what I call recession proof.

27 Didn't Keynes expect governments to pay off debt during good times? That could be a flaw.

28 My theory is that a Keynesian cash influx at the top of the economy, eg money into investment and mortgage banks cannot be effective, the money needs to come in at the bottom of the economy on a broad and politically non-selective basis. I believe a pump priming using payroll tax withholding "holidays", may have worked - pushing hundreds of dollars into every consumers hands within 2 weeks with no admin costs. Aside from the political benefit of illustrating to everyone how much tax they actually pay; those funds would have had benefited the economy thru a multiplier effect and not just gone into the balance sheets of large banks to buy and sell stocks. Maybe I should go back to school.

29 If Obama's following the Roosevelt model, he needs to quit screwing around with stimulus (except for his political cronies) and get a good world war started. Seems he's inviting two right now, with North Korea getting ramped up and Iran inviting an Israeli trigger.

30 HeatherRadish : the TVA is a government owned corporation chartered in, iirc, 1933.  It did not really begin to show results until the mid 40's.  It's power plants and infrastructure contributed greatly to ending endemic poverty in areas of the south. Because no private entity nor local government had the wherewithal to build the requisite infrastructure.

31

sock off!!

 

32 Exactly Rat Patrol, Keynes wasn't a politician. Probably couldn't get elected to be treasurer of a home owners association.

33

O/T sorta

Talk radio keeps talking about Obama's gulf fail. I think he is wanting it to do as much damage as possible so that he can nationalize the oil companies. No one wants to touch that. Even Rush said that he was slow rolling help to hurt Jindal. It looks obvious to me but am I wrong here?

34 Because no private entity nor local government had the wherewithal to build the requisite infrastructure.

As I said earlier, it started as a private project which the government took over.

35 Keynesian "spend" theory only works for normal business cycle recessions.  It was NEVER an appropriate response for this situation.

Keynesian doesn't work when you have persistent budget deficits as high as the one's we've had lately. At this point all it does is raise interest rates and crowd out private investment.

36

We did this Keysian fix once before -- when the mass of regulations of the early '70's hit industry and we plummeted into a recession and stayed there.  At the same time, the government began printing money and spending it like drunks on New Year's Eve in an attempt to "stimulate" the economy.  The result was the famous "Stagflation" -  stagnant, sagging economy, galloping inflation throughout the 1970's .  What's more, the "rachet" effect  made itself known -- prices of goods and services never returned to their levels before this demonstration of Keynsian brilliance.

The only question is, is this repeat performance stupidity, insanity or just plain old malevolence on the part of the Administration, Krugman , et al.?

37

I'm a little confused by what Ashcroft is saying.  When I buy a stock the money doesn't just leave the economy.  It goes into the pocket of the person who sold me the stock.  Saying the money supply is shrinking because people are buying stocks or other property is only looking at one side of the equation.

On the larger point, there's a distinction between Keynesian fiscal policy and Keynesian monetary policy.  The fiscal policy as a limited marginal benefit.  It's not going to have lasting effect if there's a fundamental problem in the economy.  In our case, we have an issue with a economy that has erected many barriers to capital use.  I'm not going to start up a business here just out of fear of Obamacare alone.  So when the government spends money, it may show a minor pickup for a period or two, but no one is going to form a new business on the strength of last year's stimulus package.

In the face of a recession, a shrinking money supply is not a good thing.  Keynes would tell us that we need to increase the money supply in order to mitigate or avoid that recession.  By way of example, when the stock market crashed in 1929 the money supply shrank by about 33% and we had nasty unemployment for many years.  This is because the Federal Reserve didn't adjust the money supply to compensate.  But in 1987 when the market crashed (and crashed even harder than the 1929 crash) we didn't even get a recession out of it...the Fed increased the money supply and we recovered. 

Unfortunately, I think we're learning that monetary policy has a point of diminishing returns and we've passed it.  With a goofy fiscal policy, monetary policy can only do so much to mitigate it. 

38 Didn't Keynes expect governments to pay off debt during good times?

He was wildly naive on that point.

39 #81
$800,000,000,000 for nukes! I love it! Assume 10 billion for the first one, and then economies of scale kick in and the price decreases to probably a few billion.So let's be conservative and guess 200 plants.

4 Billion MW total consumption (that's a guess).
10 Million MW per reactor

That's half the total demand for electricity in the country.

Not a bad investment at all!

40 CHART OF THE DAY: Uh-Oh, The U.S. Should Have Seen A Huge Rebound In Employment By Now

Pull my finger.

41 None of this would have happened if we were paying teachers the $100 an hour salaries that they deserve.

42 Someone needs to tell the CBO, they just reported the stimulus worked.

43 The M3 money supply in the United States is contracting at an accelerating rate that now matches the average decline seen from 1929 to 1933, despite near zero interest rates and the biggest fiscal blitz in history. The M3 figures - which include broad range of bank accounts and are tracked by British and European monetarists for warning signals about the direction of the US economy a year or so in advance - began shrinking last summer. The pace has since quickened.

The M3 figures - which include broad range of bank accounts and are tracked by British and European monetarists for warning signals about the direction of the US economy a year or so in advance - began shrinking last summer. The pace has since quickened.

The stock of money fell from $14.2 trillion to $13.9 trillion in the three months to April, amounting to an annual rate of contraction of 9.6pc. The assets of institutional money market funds fell at a 37pc rate, the sharpest drop ever.

-Telegraph UK

44 That's #8!

45 In other news, Balls are dropping while Boobies remain firm.

46 Hatless Hessian, your thinking too small - gotta be China to create a Roosevelt economy. I'm surprise OFA/ACORN/SEIU haven't been going door-to-door strong arming people into buying Obama bonds, yet.

47 "Increases in public worker salaries is one of the main reasons why the budget is so tight. The average salary for a Miami city employee is $76,000. The average salary for a Miami city resident is $29,000.

Employee pensions are choking the budget too. In 2000, pension payouts cost taxpayers $16 million. In 2009 that number spiked up to $70 million."

"Senate Budget Committee Chairman Paul Sarlo, a Democrat from Wood-Ridge, proves he is mathematically challenged and unfit for office by stating "The governorÂ’s spending cuts may lead to property-tax increases of as much as 8 percent next year".

I salute Chris Christie. We desperately need more governors to follow his lead. I also salute commissioner Marc Sarnoff. Bankruptcy is the only option that makes any sense for Miami."

48
Yes, and Obama stated that Daniel Pearl was "silenced."

Getting your head cut off by fundamentalist radical Islamists in the name of Islam = being "silenced". 

Khalid Sheik Mohammad cut off Pearl's head, and the Obama administration wants to spend millions and millions of tax payer dollars for KSM's  fancy trail in NY.
I smell tax increases.  We must pay more so that KSM can have a nice fair trial.  You know, the same fairness that was extended to Daniel Pearl.

49

 

There you go. Oil is up 2.5%.

Why? Because Pezident Boot is calling for a moratorium on off-shore oil drilling AND at the Acrtic.

 

50 The only question is, is this repeat performance stupidity, insanity or just plain old malevolence on the part of the Administration, Krugman , et al.?

I believe it's a combination of stupidity and arrogance that comes as a result of blind hyper-partisanship.

51 As I said earlier, it started as a private project which the government took over.

Yes, the TVA took over Wilson dam because it defaulted on it's bonds.  The Forgotten Man plays fast and loose with history on occasion. When you look at the total expenditure made by the TVA there is no private company that could have done this.  Nor local governmental entity at the time.

52

..."We've come back," he says of the nation, Wall Street, and the economy. "This is an amazing resurgence." ....the Democrats should change their communications strategy "to better sell what we've done."...

 

When the new formula comes out and there's a dip in the ketchup revenue, will Jon Carry still feel this way?

53 39 Scifi author Jerry Pournelle suggested just that,as a solution to oil dependancy.No way this crowd would do it of course,and it would involve waiving alot of red tape.Not lawyer friendly.

54

Hotair sent out a whole bunch of email to people warning that just writing 'revolution' or 'secession' using other characters to sidestep the industrial grade PC filter would result in immediate bannings. That's the fallout of the trout attack over there. They went nuts.

SECESSION!!!

 

55 @14  Vic, agree 100%, especially the lying jackals part.  I don't think there has ever been a more crucial time for our country than this November..and more importantly, if we win the House back, what the Republican bozos will do with the majority.  It will be the moment of truth and the point of no return if they flub up.

56 49 I thought it was deepwater drilling only?Perhaps that's the only drilling we do anyway.

57

Nice spin from Bloomberg.com

May 27 (Bloomberg) -- The U.S. economy grew in the first quarter at a slower pace than previously calculated, reflecting smaller gains in consumer and business spending and highlighting the risks to the recovery posed by the European debt crisis.

The US economy grew at a slower pace because of Europe. Has nothing to do with the failed policies here.

58 57 We'll be hearing alot of that.

59 We could solve al these problems if we just let Obama be our dictator.

60
Professor: double-dip recession is a virtual certaintyDidn't he read that first time unemployment claims dropped all the way down to 460,000? Hr must be crazy.

61 #3
such as where TVA projects were built, but only when the overall economy (macro) was well.

Can I get  some of that dope you're smoking. 

TVA is the most inefficient utility in the country.

It was built to have the power to make aluminum and uranium for the WW 2, just to let you know the real story.

Recovery?  Bullshit.  War effort?  Check.

62
Professor: double-dip recession is a virtual certainty

Didn't he read that first time unemployment claims dropped all the way down to 460,000? Hr must be crazy.


The formatting here sucks.

63 LOL @ "guns, ammo,gold and MREs"  Exactly. But dont forget bottled water!

64

 

I heard Obama is calling for a moratorium for new drilling at the Arctic, too, steevy.

65 I wonder when europe collapse if the reichmark will be worth something again.

66

There you go. Oil is up 2.5%.

Why? Because Pezident Boot is calling for a moratorium on off-shore oil drilling AND at the Acrtic.

Awesome. He just took away one of the few broad benefits of a deflationary environment - cheap fuel.

67

Saying the money supply is shrinking because people are buying stocks or other property is only looking at one side of the equation....

That's pretty much what he's saying. The cash to pay for stocks, bonds, gold or RE comes out of M3, but M3 doesn't include stocks, bonds or andthing like gold or RE.

And I'm afraid the money is going into stocks, partly because interest rates are so low. And that's partly because a lot of money has gone into bonds, also. Well, not partly, completely because people are buying bonds.

So money supply shrinks, assets inflate, no growth but market bulls abound. That's a cue to "run away" if I ever saw one.

68 #61 Kemp:
I hate it that you are smoking so much of your own weed that your grasp of reality has failed.  The simple fact is that there are areas in the South which would still be economic backwaters without the TVA.  Large government projects are, by definition, wasteful.  They are also often the only source of funding to get things done.

The trick is to determine that not everything should be a government program and that there are somethings which simply have to be.  The Fontana dam project...which is what you are clumsily alluding to...started out in the mid 40's to provide electricity for Alcoa.  However, the majority of the electricity went to other consumers as Alcoa never built a plant big enough there to use it.  Instead Alcoa built plants in other areas as well, all near hydro electric suppliers.

69 I salute Chris Christie. We desperately need more governors to follow his lead. I also salute commissioner Marc Sarnoff. Bankruptcy is the only option that makes any sense for Miami."

Posted by: curious at May 27, 2010 09:29 AM (p302b)

Your daily hit of Chris Christie awesomeness here:

http://tinyurl.com/37p7t6b

70

I heard Obama is calling for a moratorium for new drilling at the Arctic, too, steevy.

Not to sound like a douche, but i would agree with him.

I think all offshore drilling should be suspended until each company can prove it has sound Standard Operating Procedures and contigency plans.

As for the Artic, it has taken BP some 40 days to cap a well in the tropical calm water in the Gulf. 

How long do you think it would take to cap a well in the freezing, turbulant waters of the artics.

 

I think this is reasonable.

71 I would love to cash out of our 401k's. But there is no way the Wife and I are going to give the Fed 40% of that much money in taxes and penalties.

You'll probably lose more than that from inflation, if you haven't already.

I mean actual money-supply inflation reflected in the prices of actual stuff ("MZM" and "CCI," which have both gone crazy over the last few years), not the official-statistical inflation that's gamed low to mold investor behavior and reduce entitlement obligations.

The good news: It's probably too late to do anything about it. Ride!

72 I think all offshore drilling should be suspended until each company can prove it has sound Standard Operating Procedures and contigency plans.

Prove to whom?  The porn-surfing, bribe-taking bureaucrats who approved their current operations?

73

61 Kemp:
I hate it that you are smoking so much of your own weed that your grasp of reality has failed.  The simple fact is that there are areas in the South which would still be economic backwaters without the TVA.  Large government projects are, by definition, wasteful.  They are also often the only source of funding to get things done.
 

So I guess Commonwealth and Southern, run by Wendell Wilkie, weren't in the process of brining power to the south more efficiently and not on the public dime.

 

74 Beck just told a story about someone sitting across from him and subtly threatening him.  He recounted the conversation and it was downright disturbing.  Funny, Beck's answer was "well good thing I'm exactly who I say I am".  

75 The Wilson Dam was a real winner.

Not.

76 Teh Won's answer to the disaster in the Gulf is:

• Raise Taxes
• Stop Drilling

How does this differ from the Dem position in 2009 or any other year?

77

I think all offshore drilling should be suspended until each company can prove it has sound Standard Operating Procedures and contigency plans.

Prove to whom?  The porn-surfing, bribe-taking bureaucrats who approved their current operations?

OSHA, i would assume. But you're right, any agency specifically tailored to an industry is inherently corrupt and probably being paid off by that industry.

As I've said before, BP has a terrible record for safety. They have the largest fine in american history levied against them for an explosion at a refinery in 2005 or 2006. This current explosion will probably be a larger fine, and result in criminal trials as it is becoming clear they knew there were issues with this equipment and this specific well.

Look, i hate the government like you do, but these private companies are drilling in water owned by the Federal Government, therefore they are legally required to prove they have safe operation conditions and fail safe plans.

I am not sayin we should ban drilling, we have to drill, but i think all companies currently drilling should self audit and have the government review their safety procedures.

78 77 Teh Won's answer to the disaster in the Gulf is:

• Raise Taxes
• Stop Drilling

How does this differ from the Dem position in 2009 or any other year?

Posted by: Soon-to-be-Ex-ExZonie at May 27, 2010 09:51 AM (zzP3l)

More skittles and unicorns are included

79

80 Talk radio keeps talking about Obama's gulf fail. I think he is wanting it to do as much damage as possible so that he can nationalize the oil companies. No one wants to touch that. Even Rush said that he was slow rolling help to hurt Jindal. It looks obvious to me but am I wrong here?

No, I've thought since the very beginning that they would milk [and were milking] this crisis for every talking point which they could get out of it - banking on a coordinated propaganda campaign to shut down what little remains of our domestic energy capacity, thereby further impoverishing us, thereby making their stranglehold on our society all the more permanent.

PS: If there were any Jooosssss in the energy bidness, then American schoolchildren would be required to drink a pint of crude petroleum with their school lunches every day.

 

81 Levan, which is located in Utah, got its name from "navel" which is levan spelt backwards. It was named this because it is in the center of Utah.

82 Yeah, if Mr. Kerry would just squirt a little more of his special "Heinz Mayonnaise" (IYKWIMAITTYD) on that shit sandwich, I'd take a second helping! You've sold me, Big John.

83

 

Ben, the well is a mile under water.

A mile. Under the water.

10K psi well, a mile under the water.

84 What the hell is John Kerry smoking?  I have more friends and neighbors out of work now than I did a year ago.  A furniture store down the street that has been in business for 37 years just closed.  I'm getting flyers in my mailbox every other day from people looking for odd jobs and yard work because they have lost their jobs.  For Sale signs are all over the place and home prices are still falling.

85

From the CBO report that says porkulus worked:

"Looking at recorded spending to date as well as estimates of the other effects of ARRA on spending and revenues, CBO has estimated the lawÂ’s impact on employment and economic output using evidence about the effects of previous similar policies on the economy and using various mathematical models that represent the workings of the economy. On that basis, CBO estimates that in the first quarter of calendar year 2010, ARRAÂ’s policies:"

I gotta toss the BS flag on this one.  That is not an economic report.  It's a friggin Scientific Wild A$$ Guess.

86 Morons like "double dippin'"   ...IYKWIMAITYD

87

these private companies are drilling in water owned by the Federal Government

Dude - with a sentence fragment like that, you've conceded the war before the first shot has even been fired.

PS: BP were MASSIVE donors to the Obambi campaign, and, just last year, this particular rig won a big award of excellence from the Obambi administration.

BP, Goldman Sachs, General Electric - they're all in on the bolshevik-fascist policies of the Obambi-ites.

 

88 If there is a double dip we all know that it will all be BUSH'S FAULT!

89 Kerry is such a worthless fuckstick.  To any Massamorons:  Is there any chance that gasbag falls victim to Scott Brown v2.0 next time he's up for re-election?  Having Tereeeeeeeeeeeza's long-faced cabana boy going to full-time bike-riding and wind-surfing would be great for the country.

90 I think all offshore drilling should be suspended until each company can prove it has sound Standard Operating Procedures and contigency plans.

Proven to whom exactly? The stalinesque ecogoons? I fucking blame their asses for this mess in the GC right now.

91 OSHA, i would assume. But you're right, any agency specifically tailored to an industry is inherently corrupt and probably being paid off by that industry.

Having worked in one of the most regulated industries in the country I can tell you that that is simply not true. What I will say is that 90% of the time regulations don't do a lot of good. Most of them are nothing more than either useless make work projects for the regulators to justify their job, stifling regulations designed to increase the cost of doing business in order to run the business out of business by opponents, and some good intentioned stuff that only works on honest companies.

Look, i hate the government like you do, but these private companies are drilling in water owned by the Federal Government, therefore they are legally required to prove they have safe operation conditions and fail safe plans.

This rig was located 50 miles offshore in the Gulf Of Mexico. I wasn't under the impression that the federal government "owned" the Gulf Of Mexico". 

We really will probably never learn what actually happened at this oil site because rarely does the press ever get anything right on this. Most likely the industry will do a study and the insiders will get the lessons learned.

92 #61

Too much foolishness and racism.  Yankees think Southern property can be taken for their own good, but what about the rednecks in Maine which were much poorer than Southerns at the time,  you Yankees didn't confiscate property up there to "help" them.

Wonder why we Southerns are so lucky to have you people steal our property for your socialist ideas?

We lost the war, and you fuckers have been stealing our property and property rights ever since.

May I say, thank you, but we don't need your fucking help.

TVA sucks.  It is socialism, period. 

You clumsily forgot to mention Oak Ridge and U235 enrichment, which took more electricity than all the Alcoa dams combined.

It was secret, guess they still haven't told you Yankees about it.

Don't get me started! Pass the bong.

93

 Levan, which is located in Utah, got its name from "navel" which is levan spelt backwards. It was named this because it is in the center of Utah.

 

Boy, those Mormons are subtle.

 

94 Turn Midias sock off, NOW!!

95

Posted by: spongeworthy at May 27, 2010 09:43 AM (rplL3)

Thanks, SW...appreciate the insights.  I'm not overly familiar with M3 outside of the BMW. 

96 So the shithead who invented his own misery index in 2004 to show how awful things were with 5% unemployment now thinks we are doing fine huh? LOL! What a stupid feckless asshole.

97 The press is trying very hard to NOT sell the public on the job the democrats have done.  If we were getting the whole story, every democrat would be tossed out by the voters this November.

98 I suspect by "other assets", this Ashworth buffoon means things like guns, ammo, gold and MRE's...and small solar panels for hovels, pron, seeds, bio-diesel kits, barbed/razor wire. Basically anything damn near guaranteed not to go down in value!

99 3 Actually, I'd like a cite where Keynesian economics has spurred a recovery.  There are instances where locally it has made a diference, such as where TVA projects were built, but only when the overall economy (macro) was well.

Posted by: Quilly Mammoth at May 27, 2010 09:13 AM (9KqpM)

This +100000

There isn't any examples, because they don't exist, on the macro level.

100

You clumsily forgot to mention Oak Ridge and U235 enrichment, which took more electricity than all the Alcoa dams combined.

No, I didn't.  They were after the time Kemp mentioned, and they are the other consumers I mentioned.  I, sir, am also from the South, live there now, and can tell you that much of it would still be in extreme poverty sans the TVA.

All of you might try what The Cryin' Man says and do the research yourself.  Compare per capita income for families in the south vs. the national average.  Compare from 1870 to 1970.  You will see in the era before the TVA that it is was significantly lower in the south.  When the National economy went down it really went down in the south.  When the national economy went up it barely went back to par inthe south.  Primarily because of the acute lack of infrastructure.  The Roaring Twenties were the Baarely Simmering Twneties in the South.

That trend changes in the 1950 census.

But if you think it's all socialism then turn off your tap water, it comes from a government program, do not drive on paved streets and on and on.

Obama is leading the way to out right socialism, but opposing that does not mean every single government program is unneccessary.  Which a few here seem to think.

 

Midas, you might also look up the history of the most inefficient government progam in American history and the most corrupt.  The Military Post Road system.  Yet without that program the cities and towns that facilitated the stringing of rails across the Untied States would not have happened.

101 hutch, you forgot my reserve "currency" -- copper tubing for pot stills.

102 Quilly, your talking about specific, targeted "investment", like Intel, the Interstate Highways, the Space Program, Manhattan project, military R&D, etc. that model produces results, maybe not optimized - but usually accelerated faster then what private industry could do. That is quite a bit different then dumping money into banks.

103

#106

Jean, I'm with you 100%.  Like I said, on a Maco (National) level Keynesian policies have never worked.  Also, taking away risk...such as bank bailouts...makes the Capitalist system fail.  No risk means no prudence.

104 #104

Actually, isn't it strange that you should start your per capita analysis in 1870.

Let's see now what the fuck happen BEFORE that date? 

Oh, yeah, I remember the North completely destroyed the infrastructure of the South, while freeing the Slaves, which the South had several billion dollars invested in.  I am not defending Slavery, but the lost capital was a direct income transfer to the North.

Did I mention that the CSA bonds defaulted?  Or that the Yankees stole most all the assets in the South, destroyed the rail system and basically took reparations?

I am sure this had NOTHING to do with the lower per capita income levels.

As you point out research and economics are strange, but money talks.

So why do you guess per capita income went up in the South after 1950?

TVA? What are you smoking.  Let's try returning troops and economic expansions, actually slowed down by the TVA expansion.  Note Tennessee still lacks the expansion that most of the other Southern states enjoy, even today.

Thanks mostly to TVA. Get over it.  TVA Sucks.

105 97 Boy, those Mormons are subtle.
-----------
Amen, brother.

106 #104
But if you think it's all socialism then turn off your tap water, it comes from a government program, do not drive on paved streets and on and on.

Or do what Margret Thatcher did and privatize it! 

They are still drinking water in London and the government has nothing to do with it. Wow, imagine that?  Those crafty English!

And YES, socialism still sucks.

107 do not drive on paved streets and on and on.

Ever heard of TOLL ROADS??

Don't make this easy.

108 hutch, you forgot my reserve "currency" -- copper tubing for pot stills.

Posted by: Jean at May 27, 2010 10:28 AM

Thanx jean. That's currency right there. 1st domestic skirmish after the Revolution over taxes on it. I also forgot poppy seeds, and "Nazi Cold Cook" meth supplies!

109 So the Democrats are going to take 10 pounds of shit and package it in a 5 pound bag, and call it kobe beef?

110

 treating this recession/depression like previous ones where some Keynesian government largess DOES give things a kickstart coincides with a recovery that was going to happen anyway

FTFY

111

"So why do you guess per capita income went up in the South after 1950?"

Just dropped in on this. Some say it was the advent of air conditioning, which triggered a boom in high-paying, office-based service jobs.

112 Of course it's a double dip - Uhbama and Pelosi, duh!

113

Oh, yeah, I remember the North completely destroyed the infrastructure of the South,

 

It took a quarter century just to replace the horses lost in the American Civil war.

Also, a number of military bases were created in the South during World War II, due to available land, and longer periods of moderate weather. After World War II, these survived in greater numbers than bases in the Northeast and Midwest.

World War II also increased demand for agricultural supplies, while labor needs in the North prompted a migration of labor from the South, thus increasing demand for the labot that remained.

114 But if you think it's all socialism then turn off your tap water, it comes from a government program, do not drive on paved streets and on and on.

Not all government projects are socialism. Look up the term "social" in socialism.

Some things the government is allotted to do by the Consitution. Infrastructure benefits everyone and in a fair society everyone pays for it. Socialism takes money and resources from some and gives it to others.

115

Quilly Mammoth - Sounds like you have some 'post hoc' fallacy going on, since if incomes took 20 years to rise after the TVA, its likely that the TVA was not directly responsible.

The South was a subsistence farming society for the most part after the Civil War. I doubt farmers anywhere in the country were pulling in big cash incomes. The upper Tennessee valley is a mountanous area with little good farmland in addition, making it poorer yet. Until transportation in general starts to reach that area there's little population and little opportunity for large industry  or tourism to increase wealth.

116

"Some things the government is allotted to do by the Consitution. Infrastructure benefits everyone and in a fair society everyone pays for it. Socialism takes money and resources from some and gives it to others."

That's an excellent point, and one the Reagan Administration tried to make through policy, with limited success.

You might recall that national parks were all "free admission" until Reagan pushed for user fees. By all the informed reviews I've read, conditions improved rapidly after that. Just as important, the people who never use the parks weren't obligated to subsidize those who do.

117 The fiscal policy didn't work???? You mean the one Pelosi rammed through Congress without bothering to read or study (not that that helps you figure out which bill that is). Well, knock me down with a feather! The GOP needs to make an issue of the way trillions of dollars were spent without ANY consideration.

118 I don't use Welfare, but subsidize those that do.  Does this mean I shouldn't be paying?

119

21 I would love to cash out of our 401k's.  But there is no way the Wife and I are going to give the Fed 40% of that much money in taxes and penalties.

They're going to take the whole damn thing anyway before it's done.  How about a loan against it?  I was able to pull out 1/2 of mine at 5% interest, pay myself back at least.

Buy yourself some of those "other assets" mentioned and get ready for the party.

120 Posted by: The space pirate Kai-bo Ren at May 27, 2010 11:20 AM (qL20/)

I know someone who broke it to pay off a tax bill and they got totally screwed...the government can do what it wants as regards taxes and they have a take no prisoners attitude...particularly towards anyone who isn't a lib/dem

121

>> 104  I, sir, am also from the South, live there now, and can tell you that much of it would still be in extreme poverty sans the TVA.

...

Midas, you might also look up the history of the most inefficient government progam in American history and the most corrupt. The Military Post Road system. Yet without that program the cities and towns that facilitated the stringing of rails across the Untied States would not have happened.

What a load of shit.

Tell us, sir, exactly HOW you just know these things. 

How is it that you know exactly what would have happened in the absence of these state-funded corrupt enterprises?

Do you have a control experiment going on in a laboratory somewhere that perfectly replicates the economy of the American South in the 1930s through 1970s, one that can tell us what life would have been like if the US government hadn't stepped in and taken over these industries?

Or are you using a crystal ball?  Have some psychic ability?  A time machine maybe?

Bullshit.  You've got nothing.  You see what you want to see, and you have decided what you want to decide, and nothing will move you from your pre-determined conclusion. 

122

NEW YORK – Stocks surged Thursday after China reassured investors it doesn't plan to sell any of the European debt it holds.

The Dow Jones industrial average rose about 150 points in morning trading, while Treasury prices tumbled as traders pumped money into stocks.

China's confidence in Europe overshadowed disappointing reports about the U.S. economy.

See? Everything is just peachy as long as China allows us to live.

123 Congdon is just one economist. The majority of economists think a double dip is unlikely. Much as I dislike John Kerry, I think he's right to say that the US economy has improved dramatically from a year ago. Productivity is way up. Consumer confidence is up. Home sales are rising (though at reduced prices). The stock market is up. Fears of inflation have eased. Banks are lending again. Unemployment remains high, but it is always a lagging indicator. Never bet against the resilience of the US economy, still the most dynamic in the world.

124

You might recall that national parks were all "free admission" until Reagan pushed for user fees. By all the informed reviews I've read, conditions improved rapidly after that. Just as important, the people who never use the parks weren't obligated to subsidize those who do.

Yeah, this is why I'm in general in favor of fees rather than taxes. Let the actual user pay, rather than the "rich", and per use rather than according to income. Regressive, I know, but more economically efficient, except for absolute necessities like military.

125

John "The Horror, The Horror" Kerry. I almost forgor about him.

Nice of him to remind us that the sun comes up every morning while his party is running things.

126

How do you sell a shit sandwich? Put whipped cream and a cherry on top!

127 128

Was that supposed to be a sock?

128 People are also taking their money out of cash and into "assets" because, for the first time, confiscation of private bank accounts by the government seems like a reasonable possibility.

Dont cry for me, Argentina...

129

Posted by: sauropod at May 27, 2010 11:29 AM (GPm6P)

Much as I dislike John Kerry, I think he's right to say that the US economy has improved dramatically from a year ago. Productivity is way up. Consumer confidence is up. Home sales are rising (though at reduced prices). The stock market is up. Fears of inflation have eased. Banks are lending again.

What planet are you on?

The national debt just hit $13 trillion and counting. The individual government-imposed debt is now $6,165 per citizen. 

The housing market and economy are in the toilet. Try driving through the former rust belt where I live in NE Ohio. Business boarded up. Jobs gone. Homes foreclosed, thanks to the Fannie Mae/Freddie Mac trainwreck.  Obama and his merry band of Marxist idiots won't give businesses the tax breaks they need to flourish, cut back on spending, and stop trying to stifle free market enterprise with draconian socialist agendas.

When/if ObamaCare comes to fruition, your taxes will skyrocket to pay for the trainwreck.

Leave it to them to take a bad economy and make it WORSE.

Never bet against the resilience of the US economy, still the most dynamic in the world.

Not while that mutherfucker's in office.

130 Um um good. nothing like a baby shit sammich for lunch.

131 This is interesting. I originally expected Obamunist policies to cause a replay of the 1970's, with stagflation. But the article does note that the expected increase in money supply M3, due to the fractional banking system and its effect on the private sector, is *not* happening.

132

#128:

Productivity is way up. - Yes, because so many people have been laid off that those who remain have to do more work.

Consumer confidence is up. - So what, and for how long? These are the same consumers that thought Obama would be a lightbringer and deliver unicorns to their doors.

Home sales are rising (though at reduced prices). - For one month. When the "tax credit" for home buyers was about to expire. You see a trend yet? I don't. And deep in the back of your mind, don't you suspect that the banks are buying each other's houses and swapping them back and forth to keep prices artificially high so they don't have to take write-downs? Numerous homes have "sold" in my neighborhood in NE Ohio...and no one moves in.

The stock market is up. - All the way up to below 10,000 yesterday, with historic volatility, largely driven by algorhythmic trading. Real live traders simply aren't trading, and if they do, they get destroyed by 1000-point drops.

Fears of inflation have eased. - Yes, because we're deflating. good for you at the checkout counter, but bad for you in your paycheck (if you are lucky enough to get one.)

Banks are lending again. - Again, to whom? Most people are working to pay down debt, and are not taking on more debt. Consumer credit has simply not expanded, but is contracting. This is not a good medium-term signal.

Turn of the TV and learn what is really going on. The people on TV who tell you this crap are getting paid to market this government and this economy to you. Do you trust marketers? Shame on you if you do.

133 The parallels between the current situation and 1929 are remarkable. A snap back rally followed by prolonged deflation.

Only a few things have changed since 1929. In 1933 they dumped the gold standard, so they could print as much money as they needed to inflate the economy. After 4 yrs of price deflation.

And they were certainly more honest back then. They didn't manipulate every fucking GDP, CPI, and Unemployment figure politically to get re-elected. We are in the midst of a depression. They have fired their obligatory inflation shot. Now the trick bag is empty. And we are saddled with a debt burden of epic proportions.  This is as good as it gets. Great painful shit is about to happen.

134

123 I don't use Welfare, but subsidize those that do.  Does this mean I shouldn't be paying?
dogfish

Yes, but not for the reason you're trying to conflate with. Welfare is forced charity. Therefore it is NOT charity, it is robbery. "Using" welfare is nothing but picking your neighbors pocket. This is why it should be deleted. So much would change for the better if welfare was dropped. Just look at what happened with welfare reform. No starving kids or dead old folks as a result. The states that truly participated reduced the welfare load by 60% in most places and yet there were no piles of dead folks as a result. Apparently they had to go out and get a job. What a concept. [/sarc]

135

"The national debt just hit $13 trillion and counting. The individual government-imposed debt is now $6,165 per citizen."

$13 trillion divided by 308 million Americans = $42,200 each.  

 

 

 

136 professor sez well I guess that is like GOSPEL then

137 A heretofore unknown to me professor actually does have more credibility that erg.

138

139 The blog was awesome! I learned now how to do these things! Thanks very much! I love it.

140

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